Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Oh what is it? Hello?This thing on? Oh what is this?
Is this another Union Soccer podcast withJohn Jansen and Joe Tansy. Hello,
Union season over and well we're almostclose to the preseason and actually the
Union season's about to start and there'sUnion news. So guess what we're going
(00:20):
to talk about it here on theUnion Soccer Podcast. Again. You can
find this podcast wherever you want.FOXPHL Gambler dot com is where you can
find it, but also Apple,Google, uh, the Spotify, wherever
you find your podcast, you canfind us. You can find me on
Twitter at Jjed's thirty four. Youcan also find Joe on Twitter at Jay
Tansey ninety and I also find Joein the studio joining me. Joe Happy
(00:45):
Union season coming back in soon.The close see blue and Gold. Smoke
has uh plumed out of plumed outof Union yards, so we can we
have something to talk about. Wehave something to talk about. And no,
it's not signing any big name player. It's not anything crazy. It's
(01:06):
welcome back Kai Wagner. It's abig deal. It's a big deal.
It's a big deal. It's Idon't know if it's a big deal,
but it's it's interesting. Yeah,so let's just get into it because uh,
they give me the lowdown of howthis, like how this came about,
because it felt like we were kaive. Wagner definitely wanted to check check
(01:29):
the market, get money, andthe Union weren't willing to give him a
certain amount of money, so itwas like he might go. Then the
thing happens in the playoffs and hegets suspended, and then it's like,
okay, well maybe that's the endof it. And then all of a
sudden, it's oh, hey,Kai sign back. So everything that we've
talked about over the last six monthswith it's more than six months. Yeah,
(01:52):
but it feels like sixty years.But since he would like hit out
publicly at the organization that it feltlike this was it, this was the
time of everything. It's it's moneyor I go. Everything still applies right
there. There's nothing I guess newin the Kaiveagner Will he stay, will
he go? Like this doesn't necessarilymean he's he's just like here stuck here.
(02:16):
Now. No, I think itdoes. Okay, I think this.
I think this actually confirms like thethe long like the long term future
of Kaiveagner because if you look atthe if you look at where he's at
in his crease twenty six, he'sGerman, He's had no because no,
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because that no, because that matters. It's just really funny that that is
so matter of fact. This isWhogner is like if you if you look
at the profile of of Kaive Agner, it's a twenty six year old German
left back who has risen the prominencein Major League Soccer. Okay, now
that means something to certain people andit doesn't mean anything to other people.
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And the latter category, I thinkis what played a role in this because
I mean, how many times havewe sat here and talked about will Kai
stay, will he go? Andif he goes, where does he go?
And I think at the end ofthe day, he realized that staying
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in MLS with Philadelphia is his bestlong term move because look at the clubs
that were rumored with him for solong. Leads in the bottom of the
Premier League last year, But wasthat just because of a Jesse Marsh connection
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to Jim Curtin And that's it,because they ended up signing a guy that
had connections with Jesse marsh from SalzburgBober. Then you have Rain who plenty
of Americans and plenty of MLS productshave gone there and had success. But
you're beating teams five to one eachweek with the exception of Celtic, and
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those games are cool. And thenyou you know, you drop out in
in European competition and you have AKAthens who was mentioned as a potential team.
Red Star Belgrade was mentioned as well, and those are just teams that
you see pop up in European soccerevery once in a while. There at
the top of the domestic leagues forthe most part, but after that,
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like there's nothing substantial, Like you'reyou're not gonna go and search out AAK
Athens or Red Star Belgrade or heckeven Rangers. You know, you know,
casual soccer fans not going to searchthem out. They're like, oh,
I wonder you know what they're doing. So that's kind of the level
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of club he was at, youknow, a borderline. Every year you're
ropa league team and if you lookat the circumstances around it, he can
he can contend for how many trophiesin MLS each year, be at the
pinnacle of the league, play continentally, and challenge for multiple trophies and and
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this is important, be recognized asone of the best. I mean all
of those things. It just areso much more intriguing than taking a risk
somewhere else. Well, we're alsostability is lacking, like one bad run
(05:42):
of form, new manager comes inand you could be on the bench.
You know that that's a risk yourun when you go to Europe. And
I mean, look at what's goingon with Brendan Aronson right now. He
can't buy it a game, Hecan't buy a start at Union Berlin.
After how everything went, it leadsthese things coming in waves. And the
one thing you have in in Philadelphiais stability. Jim Curtain's not going anywhere,
(06:06):
Earns Tanner's not going anywhere. Wehad that flirtation, Jim Kurt's not
going anywhere, not going anywhere.It's gonna end up being like a Vermese
type thing in supporting Kansas City forbetter or for worse. But yeah,
that's the way I see it is. The Union were his best option.
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And if you remember at the postseasonpress conference with Ernst Tanner and Jim Curtin,
Ernst said there was a deadline.He didn't reveal what the deadline date
was, but seeing the timing ofthis deal coming out Thursday or being announced
(06:49):
officially Thursday, and they report forphysicals, leave Sunday and leave for Clearwater
Monday, or it's Saturday Sunday,something like whoever, this weekend is when
you report for physicals. I itit's pretty easy to assume the deadline was
this week. And Kai basically hadthe choice in this situation. If we're
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assuming this is when the deadline was, was to accept the union's offer or
wait it out and see what happensas a free agent, and you may
be screwed because if this level ofinterest was there for you as a free
agent, I don't think it changesmuch unless like injuries happen across Europe in
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the next what two and a halfweeks, So I think I think it's
the best the best case scenario forKai Wagner the person, Kai Wagner the
player, and for the union organization. Look, now you have one of
your cornerstones in here for multiple years. Every member of your core is locked
(08:00):
up, and you gotta go chasetrophies. But now, and this is
something, this is something we'll getinto as the season gets closer. Is
it good to have all this consistency? Is running it back a third time
with this group the right thing todo. And that's something we'll get into
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much much deeper when the season starts, because it's it's still mid January and
we got plenty of time to killall the major post the preseason topics.
But that's what you now you faceyourself with and then look, you got
to talk about it. He suspendedfor the first regular season game because of
using a racial slur and direction ofBobby Wood during the Eastern Conference playoffs.
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It's that one is a more sensitivetopic than just he's coming back. And
I don't think there's a I don'tthink there's a concrete answer to that.
I think it's to me, whateveryour opinion is, if you want to
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boo him, boo him, ifyou want to celebrate him being back,
do that. Like to me,it's more of a everyone has their own
opinion on the topic. It's justvery it's very awkward in a way when
you have a league that has spentso much money, so much time in
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a no Room for Racism campaign,and you have, especially during during League's
Cup and during other competitions, captainsof both teams doing the whole no no
room for racism speech at the start. Like that's where it can be very,
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very frustrating because at the end ofthe day, he did he did
say it. He's very apologetic,and I appreciate the apology, but I
can see from some fans perspective iswell, he still did it. And
that's where it becomes a fascinating situationto see how it unfolds, because I
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would not be surprised if he getsbowed in his first home game. He
absolutely could. Like I'm trying totry to be as objective as possible because
but everybody's everything becomes an unrootable player, at least the feeling of it's it's
hard to root for him for somepeople, Yes, and I completely understand
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why, Like this is why it'sit's frustrating because this league has spent so
much and and certain members of pastPhiladelphia Union rosters have been so involved in
those campaigns. I mean, there'sa player on the roster that I feel
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like is one of the most moreactive in that in Beadoya. Yeah,
and look, you've had Warren Cravall, Mark Mackenzie, Ray Gatis, guys
that have really been front and centerin those campaigns. And it's from a
human side, like it's just notthe right thing to do. You know,
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I don't care how that conversation unfolded. If if your family was offended,
you could use different words in thatmoment. You know, it's still
it still came out of his mouthallegedly from every everything that has been written
and said about it, and ifthe apology was issued pretty fast, and
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look, I appreciate the apology,and I appreciate that the wants to get
better, and I do believe everyonedeserves a second chance. Do you do
you believe that had any effect onany decision? I mean, does it?
I know overseas, but I mean, was there I'll just ask this
first. Then, was there anychance of him going to another MLS team?
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You think? Or was it?If he's moving on, it's it's
somewhere overseas. So the one teamthat everybody mentioned was Cincinnati because of the
connection connection there. From my understandingfrom talking, you know, off the
record with some people about it,Cincinnati didn't rate Wagner as high as maybe
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other teams did. There's always apotential for him to stay with an MLS
because especially teams that are building fromthe base up. You know, take
a team like Colorado for example,with bringing back Mihailovich and Zach Steph,
and you want guys that have playedin the league and have had success in
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the league. So, like Ilook, I think any team with a
left back opening would have been dumbnot to at least explore the conversation.
But it was not. It wasdefinitely not Cincinnati or Bust that's for sure
on that one. You know.I asked Arnstanner in that the postseason press
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conference, will that have any effecton the situation? And the club was
very defensive of Kai. You knowthat that Bobby Wood started this whole situation,
and Kai said it in a retaliatoryway, And I don't know that
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that part didn't sit well with me, to be honest with you, No,
I like, I'm it doesn't makeit right that that's I get it,
you're coming to defense of one ofyour star players. But he still
said it, you know, andhe doesn't really seem like there's any dispute
of that. No, there's no, it doesn't. It's more of a
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game. Well, he said itfor a reason. It's yeah, the
self defense defense came out pretty quickly, which is, look, it's a
heat of the moment thing. Iunderstand where you're coming from, but like
use a different word, just youknow, you're your two players are what
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two players away from being the faceof the franchise, Like if Alejandro Budoya
and Andre Blake ever leave you,you could be the face of the franchise.
That comes with responsibility, like ifif any of the star players,
and look, we want to bea five for five, right, we
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want to be all about this.If anybody else on a Philadelphia professional team
did the same thing, I thinkyou'd get a little bit of a different
response from the general manager, andhe might not if he's in the NBA.
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I mean, look, was itMeyers Leonard got blackballed from the league
for using a slur during a streamLike you're gonna have to move on from
it, obviously, But I understandwhy if February twenty seventh comes around and
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whatever the home game is after that, that he's booed and he's going to
have to accept that. And Ihope we get a point in preseason where
he does address everything, because rightnow all we've gotten is an Instagram statement,
while the you know, after hissuspension came down, and the Urns
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Tenner statement backing Kay Fagner. Look, I would love to to hear,
like, what is he doing specificallyto have this never happen again? Is
it an anger thing that triggered it? You know, how can you work
on your anger in game whatever itmay be, so it never ever even
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is remotely a thought in your mindbecause that's gonna hang over him. And
now a lot of people are wouldbe like, he apologized, we're gonna
move on, and again that's totallyfine, but there are gonna be some
people in the fan base that won'tlet it go right and rightfully. So,
I mean, at a certain pointyou do, it's not let it
go, but it's just like it'sa thing. It's there, and obviously
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you can't bring it up every singletime, especially if you're a Union fan.
It's just something that that is aplayer on your squad. You know,
that's just something that not live with, but you know, is there,
and it's just we can't have thisconversation every time. Like if to
be to be completely honest, ifyou're Kaive Wagner. Just get used to
everybody on on one hundred. Everyevery road game, everybody bringing it up,
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they're going to do that one hunEvery road crowd is going to try
and get under your skin by bysaying something along the lines of you're racist.
That's what's gonna happen. That's whathappens in in pro sports when some
when something obviously not this severe,but if something like that happens, it's
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going to stick with you. Soyou have to mentally prepare yourself for that.
And like like I said, Iwould love if Kai just sat down
with the reporters at some point duringpreseason, addressed everything, gave his side
his full side of the story,and then it's over with. I'm not
not gonna ask him to rehash thisevery week at training, but I think
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from an adult, a leader ofthis team, from like a responsibility standpoint,
yeah, it's got to be addressedin full preseason talk about it,
because just just an Instagram statement andthen ducking it I don't think would be
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the best way to approach. Ithink the best way to approach it is
head on yes, and then youknow whether people agree with your side of
the story or not, that's whatit is, but I think you have
to at least go on record aboutit and what you're doing to make sure
that never happens again. So that'sabout twenty minutes that I think a good
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rap on everything Kai Wagner, andthis entire podcast was supposed to be just
a whole Kai Wagner thing, butI don't want to waste all of it
just on that because I think onevery notable thing also a quote that came
out, and you know, wewere discussing it, and it's not like
the quote is groundbreaking or anything whatAndre Blake said, but we know a
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fan base is going We've the fanbase has been saying it. We've been
saying it Ki van Hers and thisguy when your leader says it one of
yours. You said, the faceis Badoia. We don't even know Badoya's
status with the union right now,which I guess we can go over at
the end, but your face ofthis franchise probably is Andre Blake right now.
He's the best player on the squad. He is, he's one of
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the more vocal, he's your guy, and he goes with this quote and
I'll just say, the whole thingit comes down to the ambition of the
club. Is the club okay withjust developing young players, selling and being
satisfied with reaching those big games,but not taking the final step. However,
if the club's ambition are to reallytake the next step, at some
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point, we are going to haveto make a decision. And for me,
I will read between the lines foreveryone on that decision, it's spend
money, is basically what Andre Blakeis saying. It's it's the decision to
spend the money. Is it abig deal Joe that Andre Blake makes a
quote like this or is it abig deal if any? Because you said
Kai has been vocal, Kay saidat the start of the whole contract situation
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right last year, like this teamhas so more money? Is it?
Is it important? Is it impactfulfor the two of your top players to
be making vocal statements like this?Will this change? I think what everybody
in you know in union Land wantsto know. Does this help any?
Is this going out? But itdoesn't help? Yes, it doesn't help.
I mean Andreas state in the obviousand I think the players are more
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frustrated now because compare this to fiveyears ago. Now the team is used
to making finals, the team isused to being at the top of the
league. And how many times hasJim Curtin said in a press conference,
you know, the the composite tableover five years like where we are.
That's great and all, but youhaven't won anything. And I think that's
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what. You haven't won the thingthough you ever won the thing. You
won the supporter shield, right,you won something and if you really want
to get in a pickyots in aCOVID season. But the thing is they
are always going to compete for supportershields. I think they will be in
that conversation because they what they do. They can last through a season and
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they can have supporter shield type seasons. The problem is when you get to
the big one, the one game, can you win that? And the
answer to me is always going tobe no, unless again that that decision
is made, I at least findit. Look, it's not impactful,
it's not the union aren't going tobe like, you know, maybe they're
right, you know, we gottachange things up. We got to spend
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a lot of money to compete withthe other squads at the top of MLS
when it comes to the important thingMLS Cup. It doesn't change anything,
but I think it is a goodway of like putting the ball in just
the like the union score. Likethe players are very aware they know,
right, and it's it's it.I don't know if it's comforting to know
that they know, but it isa way of like we are all on
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the same page here and the ballis thrown in one person's court and that's
it. So I don't know it. Look, we already knew that was
the case before, but to knowthe players aren't kidding themselves at all either.
Now they know they could compete,and they can. They will be,
you know, close to winning championships. Heck, get lucky and win
one. They could absolutely do it. It's MLS. Anything could happen in
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the world of MLS. But forthe most part they are very aware of
it and just even talking about it. To me, it's it's a it's
a good way of just being likewe we know, we all know.
Honestly, I've gotten sick of thewhole we win as a collective, not
as individuals crap. And that's JimCurtin. In a way, you win
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as you win as a collective withvery good individuals. And to get good
individuals, you pay for good individuals, right, and look they've smartly.
Still they've spent they've spent more,that's for certain. But like Tai Bo,
well he was brought in as ah, but he was brought it as
a safety net if Caronza had leftye summer, But like a million,
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that's that's that's spending for them.Spending. Yeah, a guy that like
they don't even rate and couldn't evenget on the bench, like is not
good? Are they expecting anything outof him? Because that seems like that
seems like the move, like thelatest move Chris Donovan's contract ascension should tell
you everything about that. Okay,great, but honestly, honestly, like
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he's not as good as they mayhave thought they were. And I think
you don't need a u an investigativereport to figure that out. Nice.
The fact that the fact that ChrisDonovan got why did we make that?
Was it desperate? Just was itbecause of they needed the safety net for
Karnsa and what happened with Karanza thissummer was But it just seems like you
(24:02):
you got very quick and desperate tomake that signing a bad player. Yeah,
that's essentially what it was. Okay, I don't like that. No,
it's not calcula it's not the calculatorto do it. But the way
that whole thing just had to.Yeah, because verder Braman lost full Krug
to Borisia Dortmann Lee in the summerwindow and they were one of the teams
that that were in for Caronza.I believe that Lipiacos was in as well,
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so they had to they had tokind of cover their asses to make
sure it wasn't just Iwa and Donovan. Now that being said, I mean,
Jeremy Rafinello could probably go out thereand and look better than ty Barrabau
at Ford. Oh that's great.No, that's good to hear. Thanks.
I like that. I like hearingthat. Yeah, how much money
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did they? Right? And thatthat's the that's the honest kind of truth
here, and it kind of sumsup the twenty twenty three moves that were
made. There's a report from anNYC account today that Andres Perea they're looking
on a permanent trade with n yCFC. You know, multiple teams have
(25:11):
been interested in Perea. It's clearthat for whatever reason, he's not gonna
fit here. They keep they keepsaying positive things about Jaquing Torres that the
second half of the Yeah, wellhe's got to Torres has the talent.
Absolutely, that's not a knock onTores, But like again we're talking,
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I think that's a knock on thethe Union brass to be like, well,
if it took till Midsummer to saypositive things about him, is that
on the coaching? Is that onthe development? Like that's at the end
of the day. You have totake responsibility for some of that and not
(25:52):
just say well that the player isn'tadapting to the defensive work rate, or
he's not fitting in or I thinkthat comes down to just flat out coaching
and the responsibility of the sporting departmentto be like, well, maybe we
should get this guy some games ifwe're saying so many positive things about him.
Now, Apparently twenty twenty four issupposed to be the turning over of
a new leaf, uh and notwearing these guys into the ground. And
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I think Torres plays a huge rolein that. Quinn Sullivan plays a huge
right, Chris Donovan plays a hugerole in that, which, by the
way. I think I've said thisbefore, but they think he can be
a ten goal scorer in MLS.Chris Donovan, do you believe that?
I don't care what they believe.Do you believe I can I can be
I would love to believe I canbe sold on that with some convincing.
(26:44):
The trades are there. I've seenfar less talented strikers Casper Spelco score score
double digit goals in Major Lee.Yeah, I just what the hell you
shot? Casper Schabelko is such abig but he did so much with with
yeah yeah, so little, Likelet's be honest, he was a product
(27:06):
of the He was a system forOh yeah, absolutely a system for it.
And that's still going to go downas one of the most blatant robberies
of of of MLS trademark. SoI do I do? I just want
to get this in real quick becausewe only do have a few minutes because
we are very busy people, JoeTansey, you and I does this?
What does it mean that they arebeing vocal about this? Is this just
(27:27):
union players accepting a reality or isthis an expression of frustration? What is
this? Is this just they know? Like? What is this an expression
of player empowerment. Okay, Idon't know if it does anything right,
but I didn't know if this wasfrustration to them and this to something of,
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hey, well, if we're notgoing to spend any money, then
the decisions made And why would Ibe here if the decisions made that we're
not going to compete for certain things. I think it's it's sending a message
in publicly more than they have inthe past. And Jim and has done
it. I mean, how manytimes have you known absolutely done it?
If you if you played Jim curtinpress conference Bengo in twenty twenty three one
I remember is the the NYCFC one. He's like, well they got a
(28:08):
ten million dollar guy off the bench. It's like that, that's the type
of sting. If you played pressconference Bengo last year, which is a
very popular game, went on Thursdayafter really in the union beat, that's
a popular it's I'm just in thefan base. It's very fan base today.
It's the best I get involved inthis. It's the best seller bottom
five and spending was very close tobeing free space, So like it's it's
(28:33):
not very subtle anymore. Like theseguys know, but where's the proof?
Is the proof after you sell JulianCarnza, which who knows when that's gonna
happen. I don't know, becauseit's it's very hard to kind of grasp
(28:55):
the reality of the union spending moreuntil they do, yeah, and then
it then you come down to,well, there's too n I am.
I think we've all just surrendered concededto that point. Yeah, we have,
But it's when does the frustration beginfor the players to like, Okay,
this isn't working until the revolt andsay they don't want to be here?
Okay? Is it that? Guess? Is it ever going to get
(29:17):
to that point? Somebody an aplayer may happen, but is it going
to be how problematic? It doesn'tbecome a problem to Jay Sugarman until one
of his star players says, thereason why I'm not I'm not playing here
anymore is because you don't spend.Could that happen? It could? Like,
are we seeing the beginnings of thathappening? Absolutely? Not a long
(29:41):
term contract to like, I meanthat is the proof of every member of
this core has signed a long termcontract with the idea. Although I know
I know it doesn't like it doesn'tcompute right away. But all of these
guys when they sign these contract extensions, they it raises with them, like
we've seen that with the salary release. So it's not like they're not spending
(30:04):
anything. They're just spending so muchon their core and so much on development
and the academy because it's the Unionway. Whereas we think of spending as
go put money in the transfer market. Get Gareth Bale. We don't say
that name. Oh yeah, that'sright, you'll get in trouble for that.
(30:26):
Get big name. I think,I genuinely think, ooh messy.
I genuinely think the whole off seasonis now on hold depending on the cross
I think and I don't. Idon't have a and just real quick and
yeah, I was with to sayin a minute or two, just your
feelings on the situation. MLS mediaDay was this week and he talked about
(30:48):
it pretty openly. It comes downto who needs a striker in Europe and
what's the best fit and a lotcan happen in two weeks. I mean,
the boon Sliga is coming back thisweekend, the Premier League's on this
weird like half break. It reallydepends on who needs a striker and is
(31:12):
this is gonna be a bad comparison. That's what I thought of, like
with the Flyers and Cutagatier, Likehis highest value was after the World Juniors,
right, is it's a bad comparisonbecause Kranza wants to be here.
But in terms of like a transactionalthing, Kranza's value is actually his peak
(31:37):
probably passed in value because twenty twentytwo was so fantastic for him. You
don't think you could reach out again. Well, that is dependent on the
union, right, absolutely could,But I think if you look at what
he could fetch for a transfer,the only way it becomes higher is if
there's desperation evolved. Then the Januarywindow is based off of desperation. So
(32:01):
who knows. And then look,everything has been super quiet on the Alhandra
Bbadoya front. That's I think somethingthat you know. I don't even think
he's been active on social media overthe last few weeks. I think that's
there's a reason for that. SoI'll just get this is just strictly off
of nothing, just prediction. IsBadoia back with the Union? Yes or
no? I think he is okay, and I agree, I would say
(32:22):
yes as well if they if theyfound a way to get Kay Wagner back
in that type of deal, Ithink they'll get Bedoya back in a way
where it's not disrespectful to him,but he can still play a role with
this team. So that is itfor the Union Soccer Podcast tries to do
this again. Yeah we should,you know what we should? We should
(32:44):
just continue doing the podcast. Howabout that maybe we should start figuring that
out. Joe, Well, weactually had something to talk about, I
know, but also like the season'sas somehow like coming up soon and yeah,
it's wild. But that is itfor this edition the Union Soccer Podcast.
That was Joe Tansy at Jatanzy ninetyUnion Soccer Blog dot subsect dot com.
(33:05):
Run it back for another season,Run it back, Let's go.
So that's big news as well.My name is John Jansen. I don't
run a union blog. I justlike talking about the Union. You can
follow me at Jay Jansen thirty fouron Twitter. Again find this podcast wherever
you get your podcasts. You knowwhere you get your podcast. Trust me,
we are there. You can findus. We'll be back next time
right here on the Union Soccer Pod,