Ep. 84: Conference Finals Set, What's Next for the Nuggets, NBA Draft Chatter, and More - 05/19/25

Sean Barnard and Sam Oshtry talk #NBAPlayoffs as the Conference Finals are set... #Timberwolves vs #Thunder and #Pacers vs #Knicks. #NBADraft rumors swirling around the #Sixers, and more.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Ladies and gentlemen, the stage is set.

Speaker 2 (00:02):
The eighty two game grind of the NBA regular season
and the first two rounds of the playoffs are complete
and the conference final seedings have been decided. So if
Sean Manard and Sam Ash, you're gonna break down exactly
what went down in a fateful Game seven in the
Western Conference between the Oklahoma City Thunder and Denver Nuggets,
as well as look ahead to those next two I
guess conference final rounds to decide who our champion may be,

(00:24):
and of course dive into a little bit more close
to home on the NBA draft side of things to
wrap up here.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
So, Sam, how are we doing? How was the week?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
And what were your initial thoughts on that Game seven
that didn't turn out to be quite to what I
think we hoped it could have been.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Yeah, another disappointing Game seven the Nuggets are involved in.
They were on the other side of a good one
with the Clippers in Round one. But I'm doing I'm
doing well. The final four set wacky, weird final four teams.
If you had told me two months ago that obviously
the thunder of the predictable one, but those other three
teams would have been in the final four two months ago,

(00:57):
I would have told you you're crazy, But here we are.
Things and injuries happen, and we're sitting off with a
pretty fun, intriguing final four where they were thunder of
the rightful favorites. But I could see any one of
these teams hoisting the Larrier O'Brian Trophy. And I do
just want to say real quick, now we have seven
straight years of a different champion, not just no repeat

(01:20):
in those in that seven year span, but a different champion.
So no team has won multiple championships in that span.
That is remarkable stretch in NBA history, considering how much
dynasties ruled the two thousands, the twenty tens with the
Warriors and the Cavs, and then the heat of course
with Lebron, but even go back to the two thousands

(01:42):
with Lakers. In the early part of that decade the
Lakers and later part of that decade the Spurs always
were in there. It is so hard to sustain success
in the NBA right now, harder than it's ever been,
and parody has ruled the world.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, now you're one hundred percent right about that, And
I think There's been a lot of different conversation points
about this. Is this good for the league? Is this
bad for the league? Is this a flash in the pen?
Is this something we should read into? So we're still
kind of in the early parts of this. I think
my personal takeaway is I think we all get a
little bit too ready to crown this next dynasty too early,
that we went through it with the Milwaukee Bucks and
the Denver Nuggets and the Boston Celtics that once they

(02:17):
win one were like, this core is here to stay.
This team is gonna be forever, and opportunity is not
a lengthy visitor in the NBA here. So your initial takeaways,
do you think this is something that is going to
be a long term effective the NBA win factoring the
new CBA all these kind of things. Are we just
in the parody era or will there be a team
that ends up like Oklahoma City potentially starting to carve
out their next sort of dynasty there.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
I think it's gonna be harder as hard as ever
to sustain success in the NBA, and we're seeing that
pre new CBA, like you talked about the Bucks, the Nuggets,
all these teams that were just paying these guys too
much and couldn't couldn't keep the rosters intact, and because
of that think they couldn't win multiple multiple championships and
then go on long playoff runs. But it's now with

(03:00):
the new CBA, it's even harder to sustain success because
you can't pay guys that much money because you're gonna
be in the second apron, like we see with the
Celtics right now, they're gonna have the highest tax bill
in the league. They're gonna be way past the second
apron with this roster together. So that was the nb's
goal when they created this collective bargaining agreement and this
new system of aprons, where they didn't want teams to

(03:21):
be able to pay guys like you had the Kevin
Durant situation with the Warriors. They wanted to eliminate that,
and what they did by that was eliminating super teams
and thus eliminating dynasties. So this is the NBA's goal.
This is what they wanted. I don't think I think
it's gonna be harder than ever to sustain sustain success
in the NBA. The Thunder a unique situation because they're
so young, and they have so much draft capital where

(03:42):
they can continue to replenish with some young talent. So theoretically,
if they win this year, you would expect that they
should be a dynastic candidate. But it's gonna be again,
it's gonna be hard for all these teams because guys
go on runs, role players step up throughout. If you
have a team that went on a finals run, that
means role player stepped up in that finals one. What
happens next when the enter free agency to that year,

(04:03):
maybe the contract is one more year, they're going to
get paid, and those teams can't pay them because they're
already probably playing superstars. So it's as hard as ever
to keep teams intact. And there's the talent across the
league is just so dispersed. So I think you can
continue to see this trend of repeat champions aren't a
thing anymore.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, And it is those role players where things tend
to fall apart that it's the Bruce Browns, the Contavious
Callwell Popes, the Derek Whites, those style of players is
kind of like that. It's they get kind of priced
out of that contender's market there, and then that's when
you need to hit on the draft now. The Thunder,
who you pointed to, have a vast majority of these
type of players, and I do think are in the
driver's seed. My only real critique that I see playing

(04:41):
out in real time right now for the kind of
this overall conversation is disappointing to me that I think
sometimes like this punishes teams for going about things the
right way, Like I think both the Celtics and the
Thunder are clear examples of teams going about it the
right way that they did draft. They have homegrown talent,
they've made the right decisions, They've built around these guys proper,
and you still kind of can't make it work from

(05:02):
a financial perspective.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
But we are still in the early part of this.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
I do want to see it play out over a
couple more years before we're really diving into the effects
of this CBA. But to go a little bit out
of the big picture here and reflect a little bit
on yesterday, so we sort of knew the story.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Of the season with it, or did you have another
thought on that you want to know?

Speaker 3 (05:19):
I was gonna say, you know, parody is an interesting
thing because obviously it's what the NBA wanted this was
their goal with that, but it also is counterintuitive to
what I think their business model should be because if
you look at the most rated, highest rated NBA finals
throughout exactly and dynasties, it was always Warriors versus the

(05:40):
Cavs or Lebron's teams, whatever it was, it's teams that
were dynastic teams. So like dynasties, we were good for ratings,
even maybe not so in the early rounds, but God
blessed you as you let one out, thank you. Maybe
it's not so in the early rounds in the regular
season when you know that who's going to be in
the final is a foregone conclusion. But for dynasties or

(06:03):
excuse me for the ratings, dynasties actually helped. But Adam
Silver in the NBA League Office said, we don't want
dynasties anymore. We want more parody, and so they love
parody until they get a Wolves Pacers NBA Finals that
will be the least watched NBA finals maybe an NBA history,
even before it was live taped. That's how that's how
nobody how how least watch whatever the correct phrase is there,

(06:28):
that NBA Finals will because nobody's watching that. Of course,
if you get the Knicks, Wolves or nixt Thunder, the ratings,
if the knicksur in at the ratings will do much better.
But you can promote small markets with this parody driven NBA,
but that doesn't always help ratings. So it's kind of
interesting that the NBA took that approach where it could
be counterintuitive to their actual business model.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Yeah, I guess my only argument there is, I think,
now said than ever, is personalities sell the league, and
a guy like Anthony Edwards is a guy that certainly
plays and appeals to the vast majority here, and like,
we'll see how it all plays out there. But I
do think, like in if Anthony Edwards is in the
NBA finals, I do think people are gonna be locked
into that.

Speaker 1 (07:04):
But we'll see how it plays out.

Speaker 2 (07:06):
We're certainly right in the overall point about like dynasties
being something that has been a selling point and those
big brands, the Lakers, the Spurs, the Warriors, the Heat
teams like that that have been at the mountaintop for
a quite an extended period of time. So we'll be
interesting there. I guess I'll swing it to you for
the specific finals here. Of these four teams, which do
you feel is the most disrespected here? The Thunder really

(07:27):
the only team that has been regarded as a true
contender all season. The Timberwolves, I think, are a team
that has been far more disrespected than they are really
never thrown into that category after getting to the conference
finals just last year. The New York Knicks we've talked
plenty about, but certainly a team that plays like they
have a chip on their shoulder. And the Indiana Pacers
same kind of story as the Timberwolves. To me, that
they were in this exact spot last year, ran things back,

(07:49):
have played good basketball all year. Which of these four
potential finals contenders have been the most disrespectful?

Speaker 3 (07:55):
You're gonna laugh at my answer, but my answer is
the Knicks. I think the Knicks. I think the Knicks
have been the movie disrespected team. And look, the Wolves
haven't really played anyone to get where they are, so
I kind of get why people are discounting them. And
they also are playing the best team in the league,
who's been the best in the league all season. So
we'll talk about this series, and I think the Wolves
definitely have a chance, but I kind of get the
disrespect towards the Wolves. You're right about the Pacers. They're

(08:16):
also been disrespected, and I've talked about how much they've
benefited from injuries and injury luck over the last two
playoff runs, but they've also been disrespected. Then nobody believe
in this next team entering the playoffs. Nobody like fans,
I might add by the absolutely including Nix fans. If
you told them in the conference files, they would have
thought you were crazy, even the most loyal, die hard ones.
But if you go back to that Piston series, the

(08:37):
Pistons were one of the most popular teams in terms
of bet percentages and handle percentages to win that series,
win any first round series, more money and bets were
on the Pistons than the Knicks. You go to the
next series, the Celtics were the most bet team of
any second round matchup to win their series. And now
you look at the betting splits between the Pacers and

(08:58):
the Knicks, the Pace have eighty percent of the bets
as well. I've checked this morning over on certain books,
eighty percent of the bets. Nobody believes this next team still,
and we'll talk about maybe why some reasoning behind that.
But it's just this next teams continued to be disrespected
and I think they have a very good chance to
meet the finals.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Wow, I'm surprised on that from the Pacers perspective here,
that to me like and I guess we can jump
right into it with this specific series. Here, two teams
that I am surprised to see back in the spot.
I think, two teams that it's fair to argue you
have been under discussed, under talked about, and underappreciated. Frankly,
with both these teams in mind here, I do think
this is kind of a coin toss series. To me
that I felt pretty strongly against this next team in

(09:42):
the first two series.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
I don't know what to make of this.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
So what are your early impressions the next slight favorites
in this series? I believe less I checked a Pacer
center on the plus one forty range might even have
dropped down a plus one twenty there. What is your
opening impressions of the series and sort of take the
floor in the Pacers Versus next showdown.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Yes, we'll go along on this. So, I mean there's
a lot in terms of the details and the nitty
gritty of what could swing this series. First, I'll start
with this Knicks team has taken on a completely different
identity than what it did during the regular season. This
next team during the regular season was not some tough
offensive rebounding group. They were ninth in the NBA in

(10:20):
offensive rebounding after being first by a mile last year
because they were that great on the glass. They also
weren't that great of a defensive team. They were around
the average during the regular season, and they were a
great offense. So that was their identity. During the regular season.
It was a great offense. It was a lot of
pick and roll and pick and pop between Brunton and Karnkey,
towns Og and McHale playing spot up roles. But they

(10:41):
weren't some great defensive team. During this postseason run, their
identity is completely flipped. Their offenses kind of struggled in
a lot of ways, especially that starting five group, and
those starters have played more minutes that that five man
group has played more minutes than any other five man
group in the NBA during the regular season and now
during the postseason. But it's their offense that has struggled,
and they've completely flipped their approach where their toughness, physicality, defense,

(11:06):
offensive rebounding, and creating second chance opportunities. All that is
what's led them to this spot. So their identity is
completely flipped. And you know what's so interesting, There's one
guy who's really flipped their identity and he's not even
a guy that plays more than twenty minutes per game
in these playoffs. And that's Mitchell Robinson. And when the
Knicks took didn't make a move of the trade deadline,
it was because they knew they had reinforcements coming off

(11:28):
the ir and now was Mitchell Robinson. Mitchell Robinson. They
trusted him to get healthy, get back and get back
to the dominant four season offensive glass and as a
rim protector. And he's done that and then some and
the entire Knicks group has taken on his identity, even
though he's a guy doesn't play more than twenty minutes
a night during this playoff stretch. So he when him
and Carl the Town's on the floor together in that

(11:49):
two big lineup, they are dominating the offensive glass. Their
defense is playing at an incredible level. It's their defense
that has carried them to this run. Their physical toughness,
their mental toughness late in games all that, and it's
not their offense through forty eight minutes that's been that great,
even though that was the story during the regular season.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, and I.

Speaker 2 (12:08):
Think, to be honest, like I've been a very open
Knick skeptic here, I think if this version of the
Knicks I'd seen for even stretches of the regular season,
I would have felt differently. It was that defense specifically,
that was the biggest point that I doubted here, and
frankly I wasn't fully buying this Mitchell Robinson plan.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
It has certainly been better than I expected.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
There's also been other things that have been just straight
up surprising me from the playoff perspective, like Karl Anthony
Towns was such a crucial part of their offense all season,
and it's he's felt incredibly underutilized to me. The picking
pop stuff just isn't there. They're barely running it. Like
the three point volume is so down for Cat and
that's really shocked me.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
As well.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
We've seen guys like Michale Bridges step up. Still a
little bit of variable play from both Og and McHale there.
They play a ton of isocentric ball with Jaylen Bronson,
and I expect the same to happen in this series
as well. They've kind of even leaned into that further,
I think since the playoffs have started there. But you gotta,
you know, give them credit for what they're what they're
getting done here. And to lay out the exact odds,

(13:02):
it is minus one forty five in favor of the next,
plus one twenty five to the Pacers.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
For the series market perspective, I don't know. It feels
like a toss up to me. I do think this
is a seven game series.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
The over five and a half games from a betting
perspective is certainly what I'm the most locked in on there.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
But you feel strongly it's the next, So you think
this is a toss up.

Speaker 3 (13:20):
What's that over five and a half line?

Speaker 1 (13:22):
I believe it's minus one seventy as of yesterday, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Because I'd be shocked if it's if it's under five,
so there's no value on that. Yeah, I mean, I
feel pretty strongly it's the Knicks, and there's a few
reasons for them. I can I'll lay out how the
Pacers could win. But like first off, this is this
is a revenge series. For the mix, Like, let's not
forget what happened.

Speaker 1 (13:43):
Bad blood here.

Speaker 2 (13:44):
I think people have undersold that this is going to
be like a bully series.

Speaker 3 (13:49):
This is gonna be an awesome series for so many
reasons that there's legitimate bad blood here. Let's talk about
what happened last year in the second round. The Knicks
up two to zero in that series. Rick Carlisle goes
on the epic rant in the post game about how
the refs are screwing them over.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Respect.

Speaker 3 (14:07):
He's gonna send like ninety eight clips or whatever he
said to the league office about horrible calls that the
Pacers were getting. And then that was one thing that
happened after Game two. The more important thing was that
Og and Andobi heard his hamstring was out until game seven.
We'll talk about what happened in that Game seven, but
the Pacers win to in a row. They completely flip
the series from there, and the Pacers start getting a

(14:29):
lot more coals. Then goes to a game seven. Og
comes back for Game seven. Ogs can't move out there.
He wasn't Aaron Gordon like yesterday, you actually looked pretty good.
Og could not move out there. He played the first
five minutes and then Bibbs yanked them because he genuinely
couldn't move and they were just targeting him every every time.
Josh Hart was also really hurt throughout that series. And

(14:50):
then Brunson hurts his hand. I mean, Picher's probably gonna
win that game anyway, but Brunton hurts his hand in
the game seven. This is a revenge series for the
Knicks who felt that they should have won last year's
second round matchup against the Pacers. They felt they were
the better team, and I promise you they feel that
the better team going to this matchup as well, even
though the Pacers defense has really improved. So this is
a revenge series for the Knicks. And another thing is

(15:13):
the Pacers have played two really poor perimeter defenses. And
I get their offense has been awesome, Like, don't get
me wrong, they have so many different guys, they're just
so deep, but they've played two poor Burnmore defense and
part of what how their offense excels is Tyre's Halliburn
gain two feet in the lane and from there they
swing the ball so fast, they put the defense rotation.

(15:34):
They take advantage of poor closed outs mismatches, all that
but it starts with Tyre's Halliburton getting dribble dry penetration.
The Bucks and Cabs have really bad perimeter backcourt defenders.
They just their point of attack defense isn't good. The
Knicks have Og and Michale who are going to be
completely different beasts when they're taking turns, and it'll probably
be a Michale that starts on Tyres Haliburn just because

(15:55):
it's length. But Oji will get a lot of turns,
Josh Hart will get some turns. Those are different beasts
as prim defenders. It's not gonna be as easy for
the Pacers just knife into the lane and snake into
the lane like Tyr Saliburn does so well. So that's
a big thing. And then the Pace Knicks also never
really switched their pick and roll coverage throughout the regular season,
and then against the Celtics they were switching pretty much everything,

(16:16):
even actions that Brunson was in. By the end of
the series, they were switching. So I don't know exactly
if they'll go back to that defensive coverage or when
they weren't switching. I don't think they really need to
because the Celtics or the Pacers aren't don't have the
three point volume that the Celtics did. And then the
last thing is the Pacers can't get out in transition
as much like this Pacers team. What they do is

(16:36):
so well is they play fast. They play super fast,
like to push the ball, and they dominate points in transition.
They can't do that against the Knicks because of the
offensive rebounding battle. Like the offense, the Knicks dominate the
offensive rebound rebounding battle, especially when Mitchell Robinson is in
the game. So if the Pacers are are trying to
get out leak own transition, they're gonna get killed on

(16:57):
the glass because they're the smaller team and the Pacers
opponent offensive rebounding percentage was like middle of the pack
during the regular season this year, so they have to
prioritize getting the defensive rebounding which hurts their transition game.
So I think that's gonna have an effect on their
pace and a lot of what they do is they
get easy bucks in transition. But that's gonna be harder
against this next team.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, I think you're right.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
The transition is gonna be one of the biggest X
factors of the series. That honestly to me, is probably
the biggest like storyline in this battle here I would
push back on, like I do give the Pacers a
chance on the boards, and even as they kind of
lean on their identity, Let's not forget a guy like
Obi Toppin was partially responsible for starting to shift this
kind of offensive rebound attack approach for this next team
and is now on the Pacers, and a guy like

(17:38):
Miles Turner, guy like Pascal Siakam that I do think
that they'll have bodies to compete with this Knicks, even
though like the effort level will certainly be there from
New York.

Speaker 1 (17:46):
That's gonna be exciting to me.

Speaker 2 (17:47):
I also think like depth is really the story of
this series, and I'm not gonna We're not gonna just
do the thing where injuries will decide the series, because
like we've seen it in plenty of examples in these playoffs,
But if the Knicks have one of their key guys
go down, I do think it's likely over for them.
The Pacers quite the contrary, that they have bodies after
bodies that they can throw out there, and I'm valuing

(18:08):
that more than I ever have before from a playoff perspective.
I think my general like mindset has been like you
just look at the team's top seven, maybe top eight
from a playoff perspective, I don't really feel that way
after watching this playoff series that I think that matters
more so than ever when you do have these new
lines and new guys and sort of insurance policies on
your team. And that's exactly what Indiana does, that any
one of these guys on any given night can step

(18:30):
up and be that co star, third tier star. Here
in New York, the game script Tesco exactly according to
plan for them, so we'll see what ultimately happens there.
I also want to add Rick Carlisle getting thrown out
of one of those games last year when he did
go on one of his bas there was some pretty
legendary stuff. I think there will be straight up smoke
in the series, and I do think like for all
the New York toughness, I would make an.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Argument the Pacers might be the tougher team here.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah, I completely disagree completely. I think the Knicks have
shown throughout this playoff on especially that Game six, the focus,
the mental fortitude that you have to show to close
out a Game six when all the pressure is on
you on your home floor. Great crowd, but really nervous
crowd because all the pressures on the necks of that
point when it's three two in that series and the
Celtics are playing with nothing to lose. I thought that

(19:16):
that that to me was like, this team is mentally
tough and it's physically tough, and the the best clutch
team because they have the best clutch plight. If this
game is close, and Tyry s Heiburn has had his
clutch moments, Don't get me wrong, he deserves credit for that.
But if these games are close and all the Knicks
wins except that Game six when they just blew the
Celtics out, all the Knicks wins. This playoffs have been close,

(19:36):
like they've been really close, and it's just been brunts
and kind of taken over. And Michal Bridges has had
some huge plays o Jan Andobi late in crunch time,
but it's really been Jalen Brunton who's taking over in
the clunch and I trust him with anyone. I do
want to go back to your point that attrition is
going to have a huge role on this series. Yeah,
And one thing I want the Knicks to do, and

(19:56):
it's adjustment they have to make. Is what the Pacers
do so well they did against the Calves and didn't
really all season, is they press like this is a
college team. Like they pick up ninety four feet a
lot of the time. And you know what you saw
that the Pistons do that against the against Jalen Brunson
the Knicks, and they struggled because of it. Like Jalen
Brunson struggled, I would just say just in terms of

(20:20):
his his his body and the physicality it hampered him
for certain stretches of that series because of how physical
the Pistons. The Pistons were picking him up full court.
What I want to see them do when I was
I was saying, Thibbs, why are you not doing that
against the Pacers or against the Pistons. Give mckel bridges
the ball, get him get some let him get some
on ball responsibilities, let him run point, let him bring

(20:42):
up the ball up the floor. It'll give Jalen Brunson
more relief when he's off the ball. And also I
think mckal bridges should be more utilized anyway. And you
see you saw when Brunton's out during this playoff stretch
for certain, when he takes certain breaks like early in
the fourth quarter and also when he was out during
the REGA season. That's when Bridges really at his best
without Brunts on the floor because he has more of
an opportunity to get downhill and get to his spots

(21:03):
and has more pick and roll opportunities. Give Brunton the ball,
bringing the ball to the floor, because that's gonna be
the Pacers plan. They're going to wear out the Knicks
every single time to bring the ball to the floor.
Be incredibly physical, and you never know which way the
Rafts are gonna call a series, whether they're gonna let
let a lot go or call a lot. It's really
been different every single playoff series. So Game one will

(21:23):
probably set the tone for that. But they're going to
be really physical with Jalen Brunts in the entire next
group and pick them up full court. Give the ball
to McHale Bridges, Let let Jalen Brunton play off the ball,
don't let him, don't make him work so hard to
bring the ball up the floor. And that's gonna be huge,
because you're right, if the Pacers wear down this nixt
team and one injury happens, which is the path I
see the Pacers winning. Pacers are gonna win this series.

(21:46):
Like if if og and Noby misses two games, if
mckail Bridges or Karnthine Towns missed two games, this series
is the Pacers to win. And that's that's like a
high possibility this point because the Knicks haven't been this far.
But Fibbs also hasn't been this far since two thousand eleven.
Like this is his first Commerce final since twenty eleven.
A lot of people say the reason why is because
of how much he plays his players during the regular season.

(22:06):
So now we're about to find out who wins the
attrition bet.

Speaker 1 (22:09):
Yeah, one hundred percent there.

Speaker 2 (22:10):
And one of the guys that I'm sure will be
in the mix, my guy Benedict Mather, And do we
have a series over under for technical fouls that we believe?
Ben Mather And the number I think that I have
in my head is two and a half. You think
that's fair?

Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah, yeah, I'd probably, I'd probably take the over on that.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
I do mostly agree there.

Speaker 3 (22:27):
I could see him and Josh Hart getting into a
lot kind of like Josh Hart and Jalen Brown did
it'll be a fun.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Matchow, Yeah, one hundred percent. There so very excited for
that one. Let's shift gears and move over to the
West a little bit before we dive into the full
preview of the Timberwolves and Nuggets there. I just want
to take a couple of minutes on yesterday for starters.
I do want to full out shout out Aaron Gordon. Man,
what a warrior for going out there. You mentioned Ognoby
from last year. That was my expectations for Gordon coming

(22:53):
to that game. I was even wondering if this is
more of a mind games type of thing of like
maybe he's active, barely plays and this is just kind
of keeping that in.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Their back pocket there.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
No, he played and was effective leading that game in rebounding.
I believe from start to finish, certainly through the first
half and beyond in that one really gave this team
everything he got. He still couldn't sprint out there. I
have the utmost respect for Aaron Gordon as a player.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Man.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
That dude is gritty, that dude plays his butt off,
and very impressed from him yesterday. Any other takeaway specifically
from yesterday outside of the thunder, just for the straight
up better team.

Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yeah. I mean this, this is where you grow up
in the playoffs. It's games like that. It's Game seven
against the team that has won an NBA Championship, and
the Thunder kind of exercised older playoff demons, I thought,
and they're well on their way to winning the first championship.
And that was the team they really had to get
over because yes, they had the depth advantage and the
Nuggets kind of just fell apart because of the exhaustion
that they played, were playing two straight series that went

(23:48):
to seven games, but the depth advantage for the Thunder
and the Thunders defense got it done. And that was
a series where it's like this team is ready to
win the NBA Championship. They couldn't get past the second
round last year against the Man, and a lot of
reason because of their inexperienced guys like Jana Williams, who
deserves a ton of credit for his performance. Yes day,
we were talking on Friday about this series. This Game

(24:09):
seven is gonna come down to Jalen Williams. He was
awful in Game six, he was awful, and almost all
of the Nuggets the Thunders losses and you want to
see more consistency from your number two scoring option. But
he answered every call in Game seven and he was great.
But what it really was was the defense. And Aaron
Gordon does deserve a shout out for playing and battling
that out. Alex Cruiser deserves a huge shout out for

(24:33):
how he battled Yokic and that was a great adjustment
from the thunder to put Alex Cruso on Jokich pretty
much him go full frontal on the post and then
also surround Yokic on the backside with size with Isaiah
Hartensteiner or chet Homegrin, so that I thought Alex Cruser
did an awesome job and he look he gets away
with murder down there a lot of times, as a

(24:53):
lot of smaller guys do who guard Jokic, and they're
just hammering him, killing his arms, fouling him pretty much
every possession.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
But I think it's lame for people to keep throwing
that out there. I really don't think that there was
sure the referees missed some. I don't think Caruso was
in any way over the line with anything. I don't
think he found him very many times that he didn't
get called for.

Speaker 3 (25:14):
Yeah, I don't have a problem with it. I mean, look,
look like we talked about this with the Knicks all
the time in Brunston. Like it's technical, it's technically a
fat what's happening? Sure, But like I also don't have
a problem with them calling. I'm not saying the refs
should be calling that like Fitzcality should go and but
but young, smaller guys always get away with more because
they're just smaller than when the refs miss it. The
refs just see it as like two guys battling a

(25:35):
big guy versu a small guy. But Alex Cruso deserves
all the props, all the props in the world for
guarding Jokicchen And it was really the turnovers that that
killed the logguests on the first half. I mean, they
twenty two for the game, but twelve in the first half.
And that's what the thunder have done so well all season.
And that's why I thought they were gonna win this
title is because they value possessions more than any other team.

(25:57):
They were number in the league in forced turnover. Saw
that yesterday when they hit twelve turnover when they forced
twelve turnovers against Denver in the first half, and they
were also number one league in their turnover eight, meaning
they never turned the ball over themselves. When you value
possessions that much, you get you get more shot attempts,
you get more opportunities to score, you get all of that.
And the Thunder thirteen more field goal attempts than the

(26:19):
Nuggets left yesterday. So it was really a defense where
they were just so locked down late in that first half,
really that second quarter after coming out a little tight
and nervous. We just expect from a younger group in
Game seven, but I was impressed with this Thunder team.
Their defense got done. Shay was awesome, Jalen Williams as
a secondary scorer got the job done. Alex Crusoe should
be in the Role Player Hall of Fame. This Thunder

(26:41):
team is gonna win the championship, and I have no doubt.

Speaker 1 (26:43):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (26:44):
I love I love the confidence there and just kind
of reflect on yesterday a little more. I think we
knew going into this series this was a case of
the better team versus the best player here, and I
think we kind of saw the war of attrition as
things played out with Aaron Gordon picking up injury, with
Michael Porter junior playing through whatever he is dealing within
his shoulder, which my guess is something very significant that
we'll find out pretty soon on. But like when you

(27:05):
looked at some of the spacing in that game, Jokic
is the only guy the Thunder we're worried about. That
was the second lowest usage rate that he had produced
in his ninety four playoff games just because they couldn't
get him the ball because of Carusa. The way that
he battled there, that is a really intriguing adjustment, and
I think it's a little bit similar. This isn't like
a super unique thing that has been thrown in Yokic direction.
We've seen even here in Philadelphia that like PJ. Tucker

(27:27):
was a guy that that's the way that he guarded
him with a little bit of cover behind him. But
that to me is probably the best way, and I
think team should lean on that more often.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Was really impressed with a grown up victory by the Thunder.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
The defense was the story for sure, and that sort
of late run in the late second quarter closing into halftime,
I think it was a sixteen oh run really swung
things there. But to me, it's just there was too
significant a gap of talent, and to sort of phrase
it this way, when you look down the Thunder or
the Nuggets line up here, obviously you got Jokic, Gordon,
and Jamal Murray as the three clear best players in

(27:58):
this series. In my mind, we'll go Michael Porter Jr.
Who I guess it's a little bit unfair to him
because of his shoulder issue. But if he's on this
Oklahoma City Thundered team, is he even like playing any minutes?

Speaker 3 (28:10):
Probably not, Like I got Aaron Wiggins over him. Yeah,
I think Aaron Wiggins is better, especially defensively, because like
you have to, you have to be locked in defensively
to play for this Thunder team because they really just
do play on or on a string defensively, and Michael
Porter Junior is a negative defender, especially off the ball.
He's constantly lost, constantly just getting cut back door and

(28:33):
it's like, oh, where's my man? Oh he's he's back there,
because he's just he's the guy just lost defensively, and
that was a criticism of him coming into the league.
And he's certainly improved, but he's still not there defensively,
and so yeah, you can't really play on the Thunder
team unless unless you're a good defender, and every play
player they play is a plus defender, and they actually,
you know, depth was the story throughout this series, but
the Thunder actually trimmed their rotation until they got up

(28:55):
by a huge lead. Like there was no Janeen Williams
who guarded the second Jalalen Williams who guarded Jokic a ton.
This was good, one hundred percent, but when you Alex
Grucier doing that good of a job and he was
full frontal and then their back line help was good,
he didn't need him. And then also no Isaiah Joe
who played sporadic minutes for most of these games. So
they really went to an eight man rotation even though
they are like ten eleven deep, and so it really

(29:18):
just came down to the secondary players. Like their whole
plan was to get rid of Yokic and make everyone
else beat you. And you know what Jamal Murray did,
he had a bad He just had a bad game seven.
He's usually a pretty good clutch game seven performer. Throughout
his playoff resume, he was one for eight from three,
six for sixteen from the field for thirteen points. He
just wasn't good enough. We talked about Michael Ward Junior.
He was awful all series. Russell Westbrook was awful for

(29:40):
most of the series. There was just I actually thought
Christian Brown had a pretty good series overall. On pretty
god playoff run. I'm pretty excited about his future. But
the Nuggets secondary help. It wasn't good enough. And that
was the story last two seasons where they got rid
of some key pieces to that championship run in twenty
twenty three. And it's just Jokic can't do it all.
He's the best player in the world. He's buy a
min I think. I don't think second place is even

(30:01):
close to him. He is by far the best player
in the world. But you need help, you need help,
and you need depth to win an NBA championship.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
Yeah, and one last shout out to Russell Westbrook for
helping the Oklahoma City Thunder to get to the conference
finals for the first time.

Speaker 3 (30:14):
You should get a ring. If they get a ring,
he should be sent one.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
Yeah. Pretty impressively bad.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
That was not just like a bad Russell Westbrook, and
I was like, I can't believe this, dudeus on the course,
some of those turnovers were just I don't know what
was going through his mind there, but the bottom line
is and that.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
They've literally are so they's lacked so much depth that
they've no one to to bench him with, Like Russell
Westby would have been benched in any other playoff series
without horrible he was playing.

Speaker 1 (30:38):
And look, Julian Strawther, he doesn't quite do it for.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
You, like clearly not clearly not for David Edelman. It's like,
keep going to this guy who just has a bad
resume of coming up big and big moments.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Yeah, definitely there, and we'll transition to the next series.
The Thunder have officially punched their ticket Vegas, not giving
the Minnesota Terribles much of a chance here. The opening
odds on DraftKings Sportsbook Oklahoma City Thunder minus three thirty
favorites in this series the Minnesota Timberwolves plus two sixty
five and a half. I do think from a value perspective,
timber Wolves is the way to go here. I think,

(31:10):
do you think they have a chance in this series?
I do think Anthony Edward is gonna rise at the moment.
I think we're gonna get some sick battles between him
and SGA, who I think likely will directly match up
with each other guarding each other on the other end two,
which is pretty rare from a superstar matchup like that,
and I think it plays out at least for stretches
like that. I do think defensively, Minnesota is going to
be able to compete a little bit with this Oklahoma

(31:31):
City theme. I think we could see some like eighty
style scores where it's like an eighty nine to eighty
six type win in this series. The way that both
these teams can compete on that side of the floor
here will be interesting to see how things play out. Well,
where is your head at before this season kicks off?

Speaker 3 (31:45):
You're right about the matchup between those stars, like you
rarely see two superstars in a series be two way players. Yeah,
and they are probably going to guard each other matchup
against each other like usually it's like a Brunson's hiding
on the worst player, Steph Curry's hiding on the worst player.
These are two defense oriented star superstars and the guys
they care, which is cool, and they're obviously offensive juggernauts

(32:06):
and of themselves too. I like, I get the line.
I do think the Wolves have a chance. I think
they definitely have a chance, But I get the line,
like the wolves advantage that the last two rounds has
been their size. They don't have that against Isaiah Hartenstein
and a chet home Grimm front court. And then you
could throw Jan Williams and even all those guys like
lou dorrit Case and Wallace Jane Willms, all those guys

(32:27):
played bigger than they are. They're all like big, versatile
wing guard type guys. So so I don't see it
for the Wolves. Also, the other part is the Wolves
half court offense has really struggled. Like even going back
to that Lakers series, they weren't generating half court offense
as a good level at all. A lot of it
was from Lakers turnovers, and then in transition and then
going back to last series, the Warriors have been the

(32:49):
best defensive league since they traded for Jimmy Butler. But
still the guess which testing a fire alarm in the
middle of my podcast? They have no they have no respect.
This apartment is no respect for our podcast. Right now,
I'll keep going, I'm probably gonna have a fire alarm
in the middle of this, but I guess I'll just

(33:09):
mute myself and you can take over. Where was I here?

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Uh So the Warriors had the best defense. Since then,
the Warriors are the best.

Speaker 3 (33:16):
Defense in the league. Since some no warning about the
fire alarm. What's up with that? No usual? If they're
gonna test the fire alarm, me send an email out
before like, all right, we're gonna test the fire alarm
and they're gonna do that. Take it, take it over.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
So yeah, Sam battles. I can't even imagine how maddening
that sound is in his apartment there. But to keep
it on the series a little bit, I will talk
through the Thunder and Timberwolves a little bit more. I mean, okay,
see the biggest advantage that they've had in the thus
far in this playoffs, I would say has been depth
there that there is obviously in each of these games.
The Thunder specifically was particularly glaring there. I do think

(33:49):
Minnesota is deeper than either of their opponents thus far.
That we will see with this Thunder team that there
are with this Timberwolves team, there are guys like Nasried
that can have their games where they take over. Jade
mcdani knows who I think has been particularly excellent this
year and I do think Anthony Edwards really does have
that team kind of cooking in the right direction. You
can say what you want about and off the field,
but from a basketball leadership perspective, I do you think

(34:10):
he does everything the right way in terms of firing
up his guys, riding for his his overall dudes there,
and it looks like Sam is good here, So we're
going to pop him back in to the stage.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
We we're clear of the fire alarm.

Speaker 3 (34:21):
They did one little beep and the said they're good.
I don't even mean to leave it. I meant to
just mute myself. I think we're good to.

Speaker 2 (34:28):
Get so all right, Well, I made the case that Minnesota,
I think, in contrast to the teams that Oklahoma City
has faced thus far in the playoffs, are going to
hold up a little bit from the depth perspective in
a way that the other opponents, certainly the Denver Nuggets
did not bear.

Speaker 1 (34:41):
Do you think that is fair to assess?

Speaker 3 (34:42):
Yeah, definitely, definitely. I think I think depth is to
the advantage. But to finish my point about the Warriors
of the best defense, but the Wolves struggled to generate
offense in the half court and a lot. Where they
did was state they threw two guys at Anthony Edwards,
and Julie Fanda was a really good decision maker. He
had an awesome series and he was good at four
on three. But the Thunder of the best defense in

(35:04):
the league, like they have been all season, and they're
so good at rotating out of three on three. So
if they throwing two guys Danthy Edwards and trying to
limit him, I don't know if Julius Randall and Jada
McDaniels and all those those Wolves guys who are gonna
have to take advantage of those situations, are going to
be able to playmake and score like they did against
the Warriors and the Lakers. Because the Thunders defense and

(35:25):
just how they rotate defensively and recover. It's so impressive
watching the Thunders defense, and they forced turnovers like we
talked about earlier. So from that, just strictly the defense perspective,
it's gonna be a struggle for the Wolves to score.
And I think you're right, it's gonna be a lot
of rock fights. But in terms of defense and just
size like the Wolves, the Thunder can completely mitigate the

(35:46):
Wolves's size advantage. So I think this Thunder team is
gonna win, but I think it's pretty it's closer than
people think. I think Thunder and maybe six.

Speaker 2 (35:55):
Yeah, I think it's at least a six game series.
I could definitely see this going seven as well. I
wanted to ask about he's probably one of the most
controversial playoff players in history.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
How does Rudy Gobert fair in this series here? Do
you think?

Speaker 3 (36:07):
Yeah, it's interesting because he won't be played off the
floor because the Thunder rarely goes small. Yeah, like they'll
always have Isaiah Hartenstein or even Gonna Chet Holmgren in
and look like he's gonna have to Chet Holmguen is
a guy who can make threes. He hasn't done it
at a great rate this playoffs because he's just this
guy that shoots and can make three. So he's gonna
have to go on the permanter to an extent. But

(36:28):
I think he'll have success against someone like Chet who's
not some dynamic athletic wing who can just take him
off the dribble like a lot of these teams where
they go small and just put Rudy Gobert in pick
and roll action, you get him out there. So I
don't think Rudy Gobert is gonna have a great series
because they have a size advantage. Like last series they
were playing Draymond the five most of the time against
the Lakers, They're playing Ruja Chamorial Lebron James at the

(36:49):
five most of the time. That is a massive size
advanced Rudy Gobert. So I don't think he's gonna have
some huge impact on the boards in terms of points,
in terms of any of that. But I also don't
think he's get played off the floor.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yeah, that's fair there in Oklahoma City. I do like
when they play the five out with Chet the five
where you do space the floor allows shaded to attack.
I think that they should probably lean into that pretty
heavily in the series, in the same regard that it
does Rudy out to the perimeter and all the other factors.
But we'll be interesting to see how the chess mass
chess match unfolds there. Me and Semuey be breaking things
down all week for each of these games here. I

(37:22):
did want to bring it a little bit back to
Philadelphia and more specifically to the NBA Draft before we
wrap up here.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
So over the week again, we.

Speaker 3 (37:29):
Should we give our official prediction. I don't know if
I gave my nixt prediction. Okay, Well, those are official
predictions for the playoffs for each.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
Round official predictions.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
In the Eastern Conference, I'm going Indiana Pacers in seven
and in the Western Conference Minnesota Timberwolves in six.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Wow. So you're going with the upset, that's right, I'm
taking both of them.

Speaker 3 (37:48):
Wow. All right, I guess I'm going salty. I'm going
with the two favorites.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
All right.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
So then who do you have winning the finals Finals?
I think it might be Minnesota's. Yeah, I'm really kind
of talking myself into like, for all these conversations we've
had about disrespecting all these things, Minnesota is a team
that has gotten pretty close to the mountaintop that were
in the conference finals last year, and I think we
all wrote them off after the Karl Anthony talents trade.
This really has a chance and should go down in history.
Is one of the best win win trades in NBA history.

(38:16):
Here that, I do think Julius Randall's creation ability has
meant something. I'm happy for Julius to be sort of
rewriting a pretty I guess sort of wrong narrative about
his playoff shortcomings, because, as you mentioned, the context is
important in each of these. So I'm happy for him.
I'm happy for this team. I do think Anthony Edwards
is ready to be that number one guy on a
championship winning team, and boy, it could be a dangerous

(38:36):
place for the league if that guy gets even more confidence.

Speaker 3 (38:39):
Yeah, I'd honestly love for the Wolves to win the finals.
I think it'd be cool for Edwards. I think it'd
be cool for Julius Randall and a lot of guys
who've just been disrespected. We go Bear go down the list,
a lot of guys who've been disrespected hoisting that trophy.
But I don't see that happening. I think I think
the Thunder, like I said, they grew up in that
series against the Nuggets, like they had some duds, gentlemen

(39:00):
that some duds. Shay struggled in the clutch early in
that series, some of the role players didn't step up
at certain moments, but they still overcame all of that
and beat a really good, good team but also the
best player in the league. And I just think the
Thunder are on pace to win it all. So I
think the Thunder and six, and then we talk about
next Pacers, I think nix and six, and then I
think the Thunder beat the Knicks in seven games. Wait

(39:22):
before we go to the draft, real quick, what are
your impressions of Knicks fans right now and just and
going absolutely nuts for Conference finals appearance? And would Sixers
fans do the same, because everyone's like, the next haven't
been there in twenty five years. By the time the
Sixers maybe get them the next couple of years, it
also have been twenty five years. So what are you
what are your impressions and would the Sixers fans do

(39:44):
the same.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
I don't think to this level.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
I just don't I like And to be honest, this
is what rubs me the wrong way.

Speaker 1 (39:50):
You know, me and Knicks fans have never had the
tightest of relationships.

Speaker 3 (39:53):
Oh really really they.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Have it a little bit lighter in my comments than
honestly expected. Not as many victory laps, which you're welcome
to take. I do you have to eat my words
here to a certain point here, I did think there
were zero percent chance that would win that series. And
nonetheless I did see the Brian Winhrst clip, which pretty funny.

Speaker 3 (40:08):
There he handled that really well. To his credit, he did, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
He did, for sure.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
But I mean, Knicks fans, there are some of the
most obnoxious human beings on the planet. And I think
what rubs me the wrong way about it is you
ask any of these guys coming into series, you don't
think you were winning either.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Now you did win, and.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
You get to puff your chest out like you believe
the whole time when you didn't. And we all know
that is the case there. So to compare it to Philadelphia,
I don't think there would be remotely this reaction of
the sixties getting past the second round. If anything, I
think it'd be like an about time type of reaction.
And I get obviously they're on a different timeline, as
like they didn't go through the process, they haven't been
building out for this. This is just kind of they've

(40:43):
just recently sort of turned things around here. But I mean,
I've never seen conference finals or making it to conference
finals be viewed as a measure of success until Joel
Embiid has existed.

Speaker 1 (40:53):
I just don't think that was really a thing here.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
So whatever, take your victory lap, you guys have earned it.
I hope the Pacer do clean house and send this
team pack and we'll see what happens from here. But yeah,
I don't think Sacres fans will react this way. I
do think it's so super overreaction near Narry from Knicks fans,
but not surprising at this point in the game.

Speaker 3 (41:11):
See, as Eagles fans, I'm usually always like, all right, like,
let's we we celebrate once we actually win something like wait,
wait for us to win the super Bowl and then
let's go out on the streets like that, let's act
like we've been here before. And That's always been my
approach as an Eagles fan, and I'm usually like that,
like all right, like you guys are going crazy over this.
But for Knicks fans, I kind of like love it

(41:33):
because it's you can't say, actly you've been here before,
because you literally haven't been here before. True, this century,
we lose the organization man well until recently until Leon
Rose came around, but it was for decades for sure,
and so it's like they haven't been here before, so
actly you haven't been there before. And those fans are
legitimate lunatics, like like you could say other fan base

(41:53):
more passionate, and that that might be true.

Speaker 1 (41:56):
No, ball. There's no other what's that I said? And
other fan base is no ball more for sure?

Speaker 3 (42:02):
Yeah, there's no fan base. I don't think any sport
that has more collective lunatics than the Knicks. Those guys
are absolutely nuts. So when I see them going crazy,
I'm like, go nuts like that that. I actually love
it for some reason. But the other thing is like,
of course there's always gonna be the select few to
go too far. We know that because Phillies labeled this

(42:22):
scumbag city with a lot of the scumbag fans. But
if if Philly fans were seen throwing trash bags at
a guy for wearing the opposing team Jersey, can you
imagine the national reaction. I mean everyone I sent you
and a bunch of other people that clip. Everyone saw it,
But there wasn't a huge outrage over that clip. If
the Philly fans, Philly fans were doing that, throwing trash

(42:44):
bags another guy would be ridiculous. So there's always but
that's not a referendum on the entire fans. There's always
a couple guys that go too far. Yeah, no, you're
absolutely right about that. The reception if that was Philadelphia
you're a spot on about I do want to ask
you about next fans when we talk about the collective lunatics.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
I guess my issue with it, I feel it's more
performative than actually in support of their team. That I
think that like, if you want to compare this to Philly,
like you pull the random dude off the street that
they are all in and can like kind of talk
to you about the actual team in a way that like,
I just don't think is the case for most of
these guys.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
There are absolutely real deal Knicks fans out there.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Don't get me wrong that there is certainly that group,
but like as a whole, the dancing in the street,
the shutting down Seventh Avenue, all that kind of stuff,
it feels performative to me.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
You're right to an extent, but I don't think that's
the majority of the fan base. I think there's a
few people who want content and aren't real Knicks fans,
and those people are out there, Like even after they lost,
I think there was people in the streets in that
Game five loss to the Celtics. There's people in the
streets doing a bunch of bananas stuff. Those people are
performative and they don't actually care about the Knicks success.
Those people just want the content out of it. I

(43:50):
think the majority of the fan base, and I know
a lot of Knicks fans, they are genuine Knicks fans
who have been starving for this for a long time,
who were in there for the Frank Frank years. I
don't even want to try to pronounce the last name
like Steph Curry did, but the Frank years and a
lot of other guys who they believe those guys are
gonna be the answer that Chris steps porzingis was the

(44:12):
unicorn that was going to turn them around. And they
were in the mud going to games, watching every single
game when they were winning twenty to thirty games a year.
And those guys have been starving for this, And that's
a large segment of the fan base, like any fan base.
So there are annoying people because it's New York like
a lot of these people just want their videos, want
their content, want their clips out there and aren't real fans.
But a lot of them are genuine fans and those

(44:34):
are the ones celebrating.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Yeah, for those who lived through the Ron Baker years
in New York, you can go down the list of
all those I enjoyed the moment. You guys have earned it.
You deserve it. There the other ones, I guess puff
your chest out a little bit before the series starts
would be my only other message there.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
But regardless, we'll turn a page.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
I've poked at the New York Knicks baar enough throughout
this playoff run and will continue to do so that
I will not be back down. I do think I
never was able to make my way to the non
exist in.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
New York bar in Philadelphia.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
I do think as a tribute to Tom Thiboda, I'm
gonna bust out a forty eight minute run and see
how this goes. It's been probably over two three months
since I've all gone for a run period, so not
sure how great this is gonna go.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
You get a camera on you some lot and he's
the live streaming.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Yeah, I'll be.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
I've cut together a nice little clip after the fact,
but I think I'm gonna shoot for trying to give
that a shot tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
I'm gonna suck man.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I've again, I've run in several months at this point,
so we'll see.

Speaker 3 (45:27):
I will not be joining you, even if I mean
we can maybe I will if the Pacers win. Okay,
if the Pacers win, I'll join you.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Let's come up.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
We got to come up with something for this Pacers
next series. Throw something else on the table, keep getting
some content out of it. But uh, I do want
to acknowledge a little bit of the NBA draft conversation
is it does feel there's kind of been a shift
in momentum.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
I would say here.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Over the weekend, we got an article drop from Keith
Pompei talking about scouts looking at VJ. Edgecombe is a
better prospect than Ace Bailey, got a report from Zamfonici
saying that he does not believe the Sixers would be
willing to select Ace Bailey at VJ. Edgecombe or even
kon Kin Nipple would be looked at as more of
a quote unquote Darryl Moury pick Jonathan Westman, sort of
speaking to the same sense that there is this split

(46:08):
in that Edgecomb by NBA front offices is viewed in
higher light. So we've kind of have set the table
that the NBA draft starts at the Sixers draft pick.
We know the Kooper flag is gonna be the number
one pick. It is pretty set in stone that Dylan
Harper is going to be that number two pick, but
it does feel there is a little bit of a
push for VJ. Edge Come to be that third pick
for the Sixers here. So Sam, give your initial thoughts

(46:28):
on VJ. Edgecumb as a prospect and do you think
there is a case that the Sixers should go that
direction with that third pick there?

Speaker 3 (46:33):
Yeah, before the Sixers the pick was even announced, started
doing some draft prep stuff and VJ. Edgecumb was the
guy I just like fell in love with.

Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah guy.

Speaker 3 (46:40):
I mean, he was awesome at Baylor, obviously we know that,
but as an NBA prospect, how is game will translate.
He is an athletic specimen. He is so athletic. He's
a great defender on ball and off ball. He's a
good slasher. He's just like a typical like three and
D wing and everyone's talking about additional size right now

(47:01):
in the playoffs and how important that is. He is
a guy that I trust in that regard because he's
also a great spot up player. Like this guy. He's
not a phenomenal catching shoot three point shooter, but he's
a good catch and shoot three point shooter. He can
play out of a spot up role. And that's exactly
what the Sixers need. If you want if you're shooting
for the stars, if you're the jazz in this spot
and you just need a superstar, like you just need

(47:23):
a superstar, you don't want to get a guy who
at his best might be like a fourth or fifth
option on a really good team, then you take Ace Bayley.
The Sixers are not shooting for a superstar right now,
because Ace Billy's ceiling is obviously as high as anyone
other than Dylan Harper and Cooper Flat. Sixers are not
shooting for a superstar right now. They're shooting for a

(47:43):
player will be making the media impact, be complimentary as
a wing player, a guy who will defend at a
really high level, especially if you're putting together Maxie McCain backcourt,
which they will play at certain times. Whi's a really small,
weak defensive backcourt. You want a guy like vg Edgecombe
on your team, and I just I think he's an
awesome prospect. I think he's gonna have a very long,

(48:05):
good NBA career and if the Sixers passed on him,
they're gonna regret.

Speaker 1 (48:09):
Wow. So you're you're you've dug in the heels VJ
O race.

Speaker 3 (48:12):
Second that that pick was announced and we were at
that party, I tweeted, I said, VJ. Edgecombe is the
guy for this pick.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
I was wondering if after a little time that that
that change that Uh all right, well, let me make
the case why I do believe they should be shooting
for a start at three and that the upside of
Ace Belly is worth it here. Neither one of these guys,
whoever you select at the third pick, or for that
the third pick here will make or break the Sixers
championship chances that their season outlook next year is dependent

(48:40):
on whether Jowell Ebide can be healthier look like himself,
whether Paul George can return to closer to the max
version guy that they believe they can sign, whether Jad
McCain can pick off or he pick up where he
left off from his rookie season, If they can get
more consistent level of high level play from Tyrese Maxi.
Those are factors they're going to dictate the ceiling of
the Sixers team. It's not can be whoever they draft

(49:01):
with that third pick. With that said, you're still looking
for an impact player there's no doubt about it. But
the pressure is not gonna be thrown onto this guy
from day one, whether it is VJ. Edgecombe or Ace Balley. Here,
there's a clear pathway for either one of these guys
to have a role on the Sixers team. There's no
doubt in my mind. I like VJ. Edgecomb quite a bit.
This isn't gonna be like a tear down VJ. And
one of the messages that I think needs to be

(49:22):
made clear across the board here is both these guys
could turn out to be good basketball players.

Speaker 3 (49:26):
Man, it does not have to be one of the
most likely outcome.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
Yes, yes, absolutely there, But what do you think about
that kind of mindset that the Sixers in a spot
where they can afford it to take a little bit
of that swing and the floor. Like, I think there's
a pathway to Ace Bailey still being an impact guy
without just like you know, he can be a role
player that develops into more in that kind of concept.

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Look, obviously, the Sixers entire season hinges on Joel Joel
Embiat's health and there's no reason to be optimistic about that.
And and that's that's why a lot of people have
a pessimistic outlook on the Sixer season coming up and future,
which is which is more than fair. But let's say,
and of course Paul George too, who is back to
podcasting if you haven't heard, And I think while Gilli

(50:08):
and Wallow are the only ones who can actually speak
truth to power where they I don't know if you
saw the clip, but they just told Paul George straight up, like,
we need more from you, like you gotta get more
effort all that, Like I gave you a pass last year.
We need more and he was like, and Paul George
admitted I didn't live up to my end of the bargain.
So we'll see if that's all talk or not. But
let's say Joel Embiid and Paul George are like healthy,

(50:29):
and they are one of the contending teams in the East,
a wide open East next year, I mean as open
as the East will ever be next season between the Calves, Pacers,
Knicks and and you should probably throw the Sixers in
there too. Let's say those guys are healthy, VG Edgecombe
or whoever they slot in there. Could I'm not not
make or break the season, but they will have a

(50:50):
huge role in an important playoff series and if they
perform at a high level, are cable of making immediate
impact sick that could be what has the Sixers go
over the top and make a NBA Finals appearance if
they draft a guy who is not even playable in
a playoff series and their depth and we're seeing we're
talking about depth this entire show and this entire playoffs.
How the important depth is for these teams. If they

(51:11):
have a guy who who who won't help them and
can't even be in the rotation right now because he
just he doesn't he doesn't fit, then that's gonna hurt
their chances. So I'm not saying, vg Edgecomb where this
draft pick is going to make or break this seat
this season, But I think you have a really small
window right now to compete, assuming in Beads health, and
you have to take a guy who will make an
immediate impact who also can have long term success because

(51:33):
you're you're really taking this two timeline approach right now,
where it's like you have this small window if m
BEA's healthy, but you also have a bunch of guys
who are gonna be here for the extended future and
who are talented prospects, and so if VG Edgecumbe I
think fits that two timeline approach more than an Ace
Bailey does.

Speaker 2 (51:50):
Interesting, I just think, like Ace, I think for the
starter is like the best developmental path for a specifically
as a prospect. Here is kind of the Sixer situation
where like there will be a specific define role from
him at the start, and you can kind of scale
up and move from there.

Speaker 3 (52:05):
He let me ask you, why would a there will
be a specific, defined role for him, But why would
a tough shot maker guy who takes awful shots and
he can hit a lot of them but just horrible
contested toes. Why would that guy fit in or why
would that be a good developmental project for the Sixers?

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Right now, I'm number one. His defense does not get
enough respect what so.

Speaker 3 (52:26):
No, he's a good defender for sure, Like I think.

Speaker 2 (52:27):
There's a world where his like kind of baseline role
is guarding the top perimeter option on opposing teams. Whether
that's him or Paul George doing this, We'll see what
Paul George has left in the tank. Which, by the way,
even for all the criticism, he still was a very
good defender last year. So like I'm optimistic about that
from Ace from a starting point there, and I think,
like the he will there will be times there are

(52:49):
opportunities in the sixties offense where they need somebody to
go get a bucket down the stretch, like I think
they lacked that first stretches last year. And I get
injuries the factor, all that kind of conversation, but I
think the defense is the baseline then and like as
a spot up guy who is comfortable as a catch
and shooter, even then the numbers weren't great last year.
That to me is sort of what I'm talking about.
But I think you can start to scale up where
then you can run more offense. From my mom that

(53:11):
that would be my argument there. You think that's fair, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
No, I think that's fair. I just think there's there's
some guys who come in the league where it's like
there they should be theoretically good catch and shoot players
and good off the catch, but they always make it
more difficult, like they turned down good shots to make
it a more difficult shot. And I've seen that a
lot in the East Bailey's tape, and I could see
that actually extending into his NBA career, and that just
doesn't fly in the NBA, like, especially in a system

(53:36):
that the Sixers have where they neither like Paul George
was a perfect fit theoretically, but before last season because
of how great of a spot up player was, how
how you could take the load off Hi, he could
play off the ball. He's a great decision make it
throughout his career in a spot up role where that's
catch and shoot, where that's immediately just ripping and going
to the rim, making plays out of that. East Bailey
like turns down good shots to make them more difficult

(53:58):
shots constantly. And I just don't see your role for
that in the six offense. Maybe on the Hornets, maybe
on the Jazz as you're developing a player and you're
trying to get those out of get that out of
your shot diet a team like the Sixers, I just
I just don't see it. But I certainly agree with
your point about defense. I mean, he's he's definitely a
plus defender, and they could use they could use someone
like that for sure, especially for the foreseeable future as

(54:19):
they pair MAXI McCain together in the back court. But
v Comb is also a really good defender.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Can VJ Edgcombe share the court with Maxi and McCain.
Do you think.

Speaker 3 (54:30):
Like he Obviously he's smaller, so it's it's tough. It
depends on matchups, Like do I want that in a
playoff series those three guys as as your one, two,
and three? Probably not, But I think he certainly can
play the two When it's it's Maxi or McCain, one
of those guys are on the bench.

Speaker 2 (54:47):
So to me, the guy that like his job really
comes into question here. If we're having the big picture conversation,
it's Quinn Grimes that like, we've had this guy penciled
in as a restricted free agent. Daryl Morey has been
pretty open on speaking about his desire expectation that it
will be back in Philadelphia next year. I think there's
where the overlapping skill sets come in between VJ.

Speaker 1 (55:06):
Edge Comb and Grimes.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
So I'll start with this, like, does is that a
concerning starting point for you are at your point in
this game? Is it just bring in the talent and
figure it out from there or is this something that
you kind of think that factors in the decision you.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Have to go with the more I mean, the better player,
of course, the but you also have to go with
a more manageable contract, especially with the Sixers cap situation
right now, and Quinn Grimes is a restrict free agent,
but he's also gonna command decent amount of money on
the market, not crazy money, but like a decent amount
of money and not what a rookie deal would be.
So I think that's something you have to take into
account where I would rather have VJ. Edge Combe. I

(55:41):
mean when you look at the like, look at the lineup,
like I think we're forgetting about Kelly Ubritt and Gerabusel,
who they've always wanted to pair at the four with
m B Like, what is this unlikely.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
That he's back? I will know it looks like it's
gonna be tough. You said it's unlikely. Financially it's gonna
be tough.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
What if they move on from Grimes?

Speaker 2 (56:00):
The Grimes deal, Like where you're at from an asset standpoint,
because he's a restricted free agent, they can financially match
basically whatever's thrown his way, and from a cap perspective,
you can pull it off. There's still the aprons you
gotta get into. But if you don't match there, you
let him walk for nothing, and it doesn't honestly clear
that much space. It's more kind of like a here's
the argument I'll make, or a theoretical that i'll throw

(56:21):
out here. Jonathan Kaminga is a guy that you've spoken
highly of, Golden State wants.

Speaker 1 (56:25):
No part of.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
If you're locked in on taking VJ Edge come at three,
would you consider a signing trade in the Kaminga vicinity
where you're signing Grimes to a contract he will play
out in the Warriors, Cominga signs a contract, he will
play out in the Sixers. I think they're somewhat in
the same vicinity. I would probably think Kaminga gets a
little bit of a higher market.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Yeah, I think Kaminga is going to be the significantly
higher paid player between those two.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
I think they're both between twenty and thirty.

Speaker 3 (56:49):
You don't you think you think Quinn Grime's gonna get
close to like thirty mili.

Speaker 1 (56:54):
I think he touches over twenty. I think I'll make
more than twenty annually.

Speaker 3 (56:58):
I'm trying to look at his contract right now to
know what it is. On the top of your.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
Head, I don't I know this is like his payday
one he.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
Was he's getting paid four million dollars.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
It still rookie. That was still a rookie deal.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
Yeah, yeah, But I don't think like he had a
great look. He had a great season with the Knicks
a few years back, and then he kind of struggled
a little bit with the pistons and everything, and then
he comes to the Sixers and has a great stretch
of the Sixers in a role that will never play
ever again his entire life. Like a very unique situation.
I don't know if he's getting over twenty million dollars,
Like I'm not paying Quentin Grimes every twenty million dollars

(57:32):
like a guy who was just making four million, who
has a role, Like he's a winning player for sure.
But you have Kelly o Bray, you have Paul George,
You're gonna have this draft pick. Where did you have
McCain and Maxie? Where does Quent Grimes really fit in?
So yeah, I would love it Jonathan coming to come over.
I just don't think that matches up because Coming is
gonna get paid so much, in my opinion, so much
more money than Quinn Grimes.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
It's interesting. I think they're close there.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
I don't know, like I'll do use in comparison here,
what do you do you think Quentin Grimes, this is
somewhat in the vicinity of a Jade McDaniels.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
I think Jamie daniels is way better defender, like yeah,
and he's developed into a really good spot up player.
I think Jamie Dalil's is definitely better.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Like Jaye McDaniels.

Speaker 2 (58:13):
I guess my point being j McDaniel has signed a
five year, one hundred and thirty one million dollar contracts
He's gonna making twenty five million next year. Like, I
think that type of range is sort of where Grimes
falls in. This is just a theoretical there's no legs
to this. This is me making this up off the
top of my head here, but like, that's something that
I think is worth having a conversation on.

Speaker 3 (58:30):
Yeah, I can see mc excuse me, Grimes being in
within the sixteen to twenty million range more likely, But
theoretically the kaminga thing sounds great, Like iould, I would
love to do that if I was a six Ers
if that can match up. But again, like you're you're
taking on way more in my opinion, what will be
way more salary than Grimes but I also like, I

(58:51):
don't have a problem moving on with Grimes because of
what I just laid out with with with who they
have at Gordon wing positions, especially with the draft pick
coming through, Like would you would you be upset if
they let Grimes walk for nothing?

Speaker 2 (59:03):
Kind of to be honest, I would. I'll start with like,
I don't think they would have made that trade without
the intentions of resigning.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
I think Grimes like lived up there.

Speaker 3 (59:11):
I agree, But I also don't think that they were
thinking about having the third pick in the draft like
that changes the equation.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
Yeah, I mean, if it was Cooper Flaggo'd make the
decision a whole lot of these two hears.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
I think that was the real hope there.

Speaker 2 (59:20):
But from an asset standpoint, it's definitely a bad decision
to let them walk or not maximizing your you know,
your assets that you have cashed in to bring him here.

Speaker 1 (59:30):
I do think he brought something.

Speaker 2 (59:32):
And I do think like as like a third guard
when you're speaking about like a MAXI McCain and Grimes,
And I even think if EJ. Edge combs with the guy,
like I would rather bring all these guys in and
then sort of sort it out from there that like
there it probably there's even a like there is even
a world where the Maxie McCain backcourt just doesn't work
and they're too small, can't hold up defensively, but I
have to see it. I feel the same way with

(59:52):
like the Grimes in edgecumb conversation. Let's give it a chance,
Let's take the best player, if that's what you think
the decision is, and then sort that out down the line.

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Nick Nurse will definitely try it. I would like to
see Maxie come off the bench, honestly, I think it
would be like a personal bench bench spark guy. But
Maxie and McCain, well is it like, what is this?
What does the starting lineup look like for you?

Speaker 1 (01:00:12):
Next? You saying Maxie off the bench?

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
No, no, no, my fault, McCain, McCain, okay, okay, all right,
I can walk definitely not max off. Yeah, McKain off
the bench as like as like a Ben as a
bench spark, and and you know he's a guy that
that you saw last year. He can have these scoring
out first in in like three or four minutes, which
is an awesome bench spark that you want. Like he
could be a six man that your candidate if he's
coming off the bench next year, So so what does
the starting line really look like? Like we know pg, Embid,

(01:00:38):
Maxie and like I would still throw Uber in there
for sure, So what's who's that fourth spot?

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
I do think it comes down to Grimes or McCain
for that two guard.

Speaker 3 (01:00:47):
And I see even if like if you're drafting Ace Bailey,
you're really gonna have him come off the.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Bench, I think I would walk with in this situation,
Like my starting lineup would probably be Maxie, Grimes, Paul George, Bailey,
embiid as my start five there and then you're talking
about a McCain and Ubre as your sixth and seven man.

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Is pretty strong, but.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
That is definitely strong. I'm still an Ubray fan. I
think people kind of like forget about him and he
slept on him and obviously last year was just a
wash because of it wasn't playing a normal role. But
two years ago he was awesome. And I think when
he's playing alongside Maxi and em Beat and theoretically Paul
George too should help him, I think, and Uber can
be a really good player. So I wouldn't I wouldn't

(01:01:26):
put him on the bench. But yeah, there's gonna be
tough lineup decisions for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:01:29):
Yeah, and I mean Ben has got to earn it too, Like, well,
we'll see how things play out and that kind of thing.
I did want to hit on your Ubret point though,
I even gained more respect for Kelly last year of
like a guy that just treated every single game like
a professional, that buckled up, competed on both ends.

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
And it was a tough situation to be doing that there.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
So I think we forget some of the little like
dunker spot chemistry that he had with Joel when they
were sharing the floor regularly. Defensively, he's reached a level
that I didn't think was possible when he first signed
with Philadelphia.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
So Kelly Eubray is definitely a guy that the fan base.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
I think his soured on way more than should be
the case here, and he's been pretty open on wanting
to be back depending on what that dollar figure is.
He does have the option there, so we'll see how
it plays out. But yeah, I'm with you that I
think Kellyubray can absolutely be a winning part of the
Sixers team when he gets back on track.

Speaker 3 (01:02:14):
Yeah, I think Kelly Ubre is a winning player and
his length really even the playoffs, like his length really
bothered bothered Brunson that in that first year. So he's
definitely a plus defender and he's a good, good shooter.
And you're right about those that dunker spot because those
few games that we that we saw at that full
lineup actually come together with with with that just the

(01:02:34):
lineup that we all anticipated with Ubra and Paul George
and Embiid and Maxi, They're spacing was incredible and Uber
playing in the dunker Spody's so athletic, so like a
lot of those like Embid's become a pretty good short
role playmaker. And a lot of those dump offs are
oops were to to Ubra in that dunker spot and
he's a great athlete, so he goes up and gets it.
So yeah, I'd love to see Ubray back as well.

(01:02:55):
But like we're gonna continue to talk about this, but
I just I just think vig edge Comb is the
guy that will help you win now more. And I'm
just I'm not like the more I look into it,
I don't want to be an Ace Bailey hater. I
don't want Mark to come after me mostly reason why,
but I it's just the more I watch him, it's
more just like, these shots are not shots that you

(01:03:17):
can make in the NBA. And he's a good driver.
He really does remind me of Hardened every time he
drives the rim, just like the way his elbow movement,
how he extends his elbows, how he could get change
of pace, all that. It's impressive. He doesn't get to
the free throw line as much as I would have liked,
at least last season, and he might develop that more
more in the NBA. But just so many of the

(01:03:37):
shots he takes, like these mid range shots that are
just like, forget if they're mid ranger threes. I'm not
worried about that as much. It's more just they're contested
and they're bad shots, and he's turning down good shots
to make them poor shots. And it's just like these
shots do not exist in the NBA. Watch a million
NBA games, No good team has that shot in their profile.
They just don't. Like even Kevin Durant like like as

(01:03:59):
as he's still a guy that can do that, but
that's been eliminated from his game more now than it
was five years ago. So I just don't. I don't
see how he's gonna fit.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Yeah, I mean there's definitely some indefensible shot selection stuff.
There's no way around that. When having the Aceple conversation.
The last thing that I'll say on like Ace and
I'm still holding my spot on Ace Island at this
current point in time, I do, like me j Edge,
come a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:04:22):
Isn't an island because it's a full island. You guys
got to get a bigger islands. A lot of these
people out there, we got an angry mob at the
edge of our island.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
I'll say that.

Speaker 3 (01:04:30):
But there's definitely really contentious. I don't know why this
Maybe it's worth two online, but this topic has become
so contentious, like either he's gonna be a good player
or he's not. Like it's not it's.

Speaker 2 (01:04:41):
There's people that I'll say he's Kevin Urant, and there's
people that say he's not even an NBA player. He's
the most polarizing prospect I cantly remember.

Speaker 3 (01:04:47):
Yeah, but I will say there are a lot of
people I trust to that like have him not even
a top ten prospects, But then there matters to me.

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
I mean, people like Cavoni like I think he can
get it back at which I do. Like Caivone's opinion
in respect there talking about like how how much he
wants it. Like I'll say this for my impression of
Ace Bailey, I sort of entered this season or midway
through with the same kind of like I hate the
shot selection. I don't know, it's on a Rutgers team,
He's not winning all these things. When I did go
up and watch him in person, what stood out to

(01:05:17):
me the most about that game was how hard the
kid played. And there is like a legitimate motor on
him and a guy that cares if you have the
frame that he has, with the skills that he has,
with a legitimate motor in him, which I do believe
that he does have, that he does want to win,
he does care.

Speaker 1 (01:05:31):
I can take a bet on that kid.

Speaker 2 (01:05:33):
And that's just kind of where I end up landing
in every part of this conversation when it comes to
Ace Bailey.

Speaker 3 (01:05:38):
Yeah, we will see it's it's it's gonna play out
of the next month with more room more rumors than
ever as as more. I don't I don't think the
pick will be traded. I'm I'm pretty sure at least
he could be traded back. I don't think he'll be
traded for like a win Now player, like if that
wind Now player has been in league for a few years.
I'm I'm pretty confident about that at this point.

Speaker 1 (01:05:57):
Yeah, they shouldn't.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
To me, like I can, I can see the case
and understand moving down like if there if the jazz
are or Hornets are really wanting Ace Bailey and you
can kind of pick up something from it. I certainly
see the logic of it there. So we'll see how.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Things play out. But I ultimately the Sixers.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Absolutely have to walk away with like a high impact
rookie that to me is like a clear cut goal
has to be the conclusion of this draft.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
Here Mark proposed to trade on on Twitter. Let me
pull it up as we wrap up here that I
was like, absolutely the Laurie Marketing one. Yes, the Laurie
Marketing Yes. So just to set it, here's yes, would
you trade Paul George the third pick, an unprotected future
Clippers pick for Laurie Marketing and the fifth pick? That
is a one thousand percent yes for me if I'm

(01:06:40):
the Sixer Luri Marketing in of himself, is a massive
upgrade over Paul George, not just for right now, but
for the future and not have to look at his
contract exactly. But I'm still Laurie marking a bad you
last year. But that was just a disastrous Jazz situation.
I'm a huge lawry marketing fan. I would love that.
And you can take a win now ready player. If
you're if drafting fifth met Edge Come might be off

(01:07:00):
the board by then, But there are a lot of
other options you can get that, Derek Queen. There's a
lot of other options. Yeah, and there's a lot of
other options that that you could go to at the
fifth pick.

Speaker 1 (01:07:11):
Yeah, I would do that trade.

Speaker 2 (01:07:12):
I guess my only like concern with it is why
would the Jazz, like if you really.

Speaker 3 (01:07:16):
They would never do that.

Speaker 2 (01:07:17):
They would never Yeah, right, that's like that's the tough
part about making these mock trades is it does take
two sides of both the great om and I don't
see a world where Utah be jumping for joy to
take on Paul Geordie's contract at this point in this game,
especially as they head into another rebuilding season last year
or next year coming up there. So yeah, Laurie does
have a hefty contract is what I believe those eyebrows
were reacting to on that, But.

Speaker 3 (01:07:38):
That's exactly what it was. A massive contract. He's gonna
get over fifty million by the twenty eight or twenty
twenty eight season.

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
Wow, that is a lot. That is a lot for
Laurie Mark and I will say George.

Speaker 3 (01:07:49):
On a crazy contract too, which is kind of how
you would make that, make that salary salary match work.

Speaker 2 (01:07:54):
Yeah, very true there, But we'll see what ultimately happens.
Any final words on the draft or the NBA playoffs
before we sign off.

Speaker 3 (01:08:00):
I don't think so. Nixon six thunder and six and
this will be an exciting NBA finals.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
Yeah, let's go Pacers, baby. So we'll see how things
shape out from here, but me and Sam we're gonna
be all over breaking things down here on Fox Sports
The Gambler.

Speaker 1 (01:08:12):
Appreciate you guys for tuning in.

Speaker 2 (01:08:13):
Make sure you keep it locked on the dial as
we have plenty more coming on the other side.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
And back to talk with you next time, Pease.