Ep. 94: LeBron LEAVING Lakers? NBA Free Agency Kicks Off! And Best Outlooks in Each Conference - 06/30/25

Sean Barnard and Sam Oshtry discuss the latest NBA free agency rumors, LeBron possibly leaving LA? And more.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Number one on your car radio preset hand the new
and improved Diehard Radio, WDA Yes and WD two seven
three D Philadelphia Ice. Fox Sports Radio The Gambler.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
What's going on, Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome back to Fox
Sports The Gambler. My name is Sean Bernard here with
my guy Sam Austria as always ready to dive into
the latest across the NBA world. The full off season
is in swing. Free agency has arrived, the deadline for
options has passed, the NBA Draft has passed, and it's
time to talk to some hoops. So Sam astriy, how
are we doing this? Fine Monday?

Speaker 3 (00:29):
I'm good. It's not a freegency's kicking off in a
few hours later. Today. We've already had a lot of news.
It's not the normal freegency that we expect with not
a lot of big names on the market. But let's
get into it.

Speaker 2 (00:40):
Yeah, you know what, I think, I will trade off
a week free agent class for the sixer getting the
third pick in the draft. That was the excitement level
I can pass forward there. But of course a ton
going around around the NBA right now, and I guess
to keep it in Philadelphia before we fully dive into things.
A couple of deadlines that did occur. Jared Butler declined,
Eric Gordon declined but could be back on a veteran.
His minimum was, there's a little bit of a cap

(01:01):
gymnastics that can be done there. Andre Drummond drops opts
into his player option to remain in Philadelphia for five
million dollars next year, Kelly Yubray Junior will be back
on the team, and the end of the Lonnie Walker
era in Philadelphia. So any key takeaways from the Sixers
from those, uh, those options there? Obviously some of them teams,
some of them player both Ubre and Drummond controlling their

(01:21):
future by opting at the ones under team control said
no way there. So any thoughts on those decisions?

Speaker 4 (01:27):
Yeah, So, I mean, obviously a lot of it is
to set up for Quentin Grimes, who was gonna Who's
gonna we all assume do back in Philadelphia, and then
you would think that Abuseli is probably gonna walk. Those
are the two guys everyone was wondering after this season.
Just Gershon Yabuseli played them out of the Sixers, played
himself out of the Sixers hand where he just was

(01:48):
too good this season, even even during his down year
for the Sixers, and because of that, he is now
going to get command more money than the Sixers can
offer him from another team unless he really he I
know he really likes Philadelphia, so unless there's the possibility
that he would be willing to take less to stay
in Philly. But if it's that much of a difference
in money, I think he knows he has to go

(02:09):
go find somewhere.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Else to play.

Speaker 4 (02:11):
So that though all those moves kind of around the
margin moves not going to make or break the Sixer season,
but bring Quentin Grimes for a depth role could definitely
the Caliubrey thing. I was kind of surprised about it.
I thought he could command more on the open market.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
I think he looked around and didn't see a lot
of cap space for at a lot of options and
said like, let me take my lumps. Eight million is
still eight million dollars and then I like Philadelphia a
little bit.

Speaker 4 (02:36):
Yeah, but it was also like, now it's just a
one year deal, right, even if you're not going to
get as much money per year, you could secure some
more money long term. I guess it's kind of like
betting on yourself. What he's doing is betting on yourself
and then hoping that next year that the market will
be more lucrative and I'll be able to secure a
long term, guaranteed deal. But like he earned himself, I
think the last two years and his first year in

(02:57):
Philly was better than last year, of course, but I
think I think he still played pretty decently.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Last year.

Speaker 4 (03:02):
I thought he earned himself a better contract and a
long term contract with some good guaranteed money in there,
but that obviously didn't happen. So yeah, nothing too crazy
from that perspective, just Sixers doing what they have to
do to build depth and eventually resign Quinn Grimes.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
Yeah, one hundred percent there. And I'll start by saying
I'm happy Ubre is back. That he does seem to
be probably the most polarizing member of the Sixers here.
There are some people that straight up hate Kelly Ubre
out there, that think he's a complete losing basketball player
and all these kind of critiques that he thrown his way.
He's not perfect, he has his flaws. I wish he
was a better shooter. He shot twenty nine percent from
three last year, which really is not quite good enough

(03:37):
by NBA wing standards there. But I give Kelly a
ton of respect and honestly really appreciated the way he
approached things last year. That dude treated last season like
a professional from start to finish. And when we're in
game seventy nine of an eighty two game season where
the Sixers are actively trying to lose games, it did
give me. I grew a little bit of respect for
Kelly just the way that he went around his business.
And I still think like the best version of Kelly

(03:59):
Ubre junior is playing next to Jowell and beiad and
we obviously did not get to see that a ton
last year, that little dunker spot role. I think he's
found a nice little niche and so I'm in agreement
with you. I'm kind of surprised that there is not
more of a market for him. I think he I've
my opinion and perception of him has certainly changed as
a basketball player here in Philadelphia. But let's not forget
the same guy that was playing on a veteran's minimum

(04:19):
when he first got to Philly. So I don't think
there is as many Kelly Oubrede junior fans around the league,
as maybe should be the case there.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
Now, that was a proven year for him too, right
when he came to that veteran's minimum, and he obviously
he started out shooting the ball all that season kind
of slumped finished shooting thirty one percent from three that year,
but that he proved it like it was a proven year,
prove it deal for him, and he proved his worth
in the NBA and playing for a championship contender. So
now this to me is another proved year for him.

(04:46):
He's not playing on a vet's minimum eight million a year,
but he's going to be a free agent after the year,
so he is to prove his worth for his next contract,
whether that's in Philly or some well, so I think
you're gonna see that that same level of intensity that
he played with that or year he can't.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, And I do think he deserves more credit defensively too,
particularly smaller guards. He does a really nice job just
swallowing them up with this wingspan, being active, poking and
proud and at the ball there. So Kelly Red Junior,
welcome back to this show.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Happy well, especially on a team with just to that point,
especially on a team with a backcourt that's gonna be
playing Jared McCain and Tyres Maxie a lot. Like Klubery
is gonna have to be the primary primary defender guarding
most of these ball handlers on the opposing teams because
of his length and athleticism. Also vg Edgecumbe coming along
will help with that. But like he's gonna have to
have a huge role defensively this season.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, one hundred percent. And to throw your question here,
I know, Tarily, I know there's plenty of roster changes
that can still go down. Do you have any idea
what the day one starting five for the Sixers team
could look like there?

Speaker 4 (05:45):
Yeah, right now, it's tough because do you want to
start a backcourt with Jared McCain and Tyris Maxie. That's
a really small backcourt that could be targeted defensively. I
think Nick Nurse is definitely give that a shot throughout
the season. The starting backcourt, like maybe I could say McCain, Maxy,
Kelly Ubray, Paul George, and Joel Embiid, But I think

(06:08):
there's gonna be a lot of times when Quentin Grimes
is slid into that spot ahead of McCain or maybe
Quentin Grimes is playing the three instead of Kelly Ubret,
and then McCain. Maybe McCain comes off the bench a lot.
So I think Nick Nurse is gonna play around with
that backcourt and really that one through three a lot.
We'll have the luxury to do so. And then maybe
maybe VG Edgecombe gets off to a great start and
gets the starting starting opportunities. I think he definitely will

(06:31):
come off the bench to start the season, and that
should be the plan to build depp.

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Depth with your back court.

Speaker 4 (06:36):
But I could see those four guys all mix and
matching in those one through three spots.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yeah, I'm sure that Nick Nurse will experiment there and
he absolutely should find in what is the exact mix
that works here, what is the best you know, patterns
in just roster decisions that we can make, and overall
figuring out how these guys work together. I think Jay
McCain is probably at least for this season, going to
be more of a bench spark plug kind of guy.
And I don't mean that to minimize his role, but
I think like he might be best is a come

(07:03):
off the bench and all of a sudden drop fifteen
points in ten minutes and kind of change the game
a little bit there. We sort of saw that for
Maxi's trajectory that that was like the best portion of
his game in the early parts of his career, and
he's obviously I had more and more layers, and I
think McCain will as well. I think my prediction as
of now is it would be Tyrese, Maxi, Quentin Grimes,
Paul George Kelly u Bray and Joel embiid. Is this

(07:24):
the primary starting five? Would be my guest for now,
but obviously, as on Ken change from a roster standpoint,
but did want to throw that on the table. I
also do want to make note of Eric Gordon here,
so he did decline his player option here. The way
this can work is sort of a we help you,
you help us kind of thing is he gets off
the books for the time being here, and what that
means directly is he can take a veteran's minimum, which

(07:45):
will end up being a pay raise to remain in Philadelphia.
So I'm sure there were conversations there. And the reason
that that is the case is the salary cap increase.
So when the salary cap increase, the minimums increase. That
all this is percentage based and even max contrasts that
we talked about. Not all max is are created that
is based on your accolades, how many years you've played
All Star, all these kind of things here. So for

(08:05):
a guy like Joel Embiid, for example, a thirty five
percent MAX, that's thirty five percent of the cap here,
a guy like Paul George a little less. For Tyrese Max,
he far more tolerable at this stage of his career.
But nonetheleast just didn't want to make note on that
any feel for do you want Eric Gordon back on
the Sixers basketball team?

Speaker 4 (08:20):
Well, we know Daryl moriy loves Eric Gordon. They had
great relationships. So Darrel Morriy will do what he has
to do to get Eric Gordon back on this team.
I do think it matters, just from a veteran leadership perspective.
He started out last season playing really poorly. I mean,
he wasn't shooting the ball well at all. He was
a stiff defensively, bunch of turnovers too. Like I was
not impressed with Eric Gordon. He finished off the season

(08:41):
better in the second half of the year, but again
the Sixers were washed at that point. They were trying
to lose games in those last couple of months, so
I'm not particularly like I don't think it matters in
terms of the on court production.

Speaker 3 (08:54):
He shouldn't be playing like there.

Speaker 4 (08:55):
Eric Gordon should not be in a rotation right now
when you want to build some depth, when you have
some guys out and you want to win some random
regular season games in January, maybe he can still give
you twenty to twenty five minutes, but I don't think
Eric Gordon would be part of the normal rotation if
all things go to plan with their health. That being said, again,
the veteran leadership thing like that matters in that sixers locker,

(09:16):
and that's this team has gotten younger, which is good.
Getting younger and more athletic was one of Daryl Morrey's
goals this offseason. They did that, But at the same time,
you still need the veteran leadership because we don't know
what kind of leader Joel Embiad is. We know he
was constantly late last season. Tyre Smaxy is the one
that had to call him out because of his tardiness.
Like Tyri SMAXI is becoming more of the leader of

(09:36):
this team as Joel Embiid it seems takes a backseat
because of how much how little he's playing actually on
the court. So I do think it's valuable to have
veteran leadership, and Kyle Larry has been that guy, and
Eric Gordon could be that guy too.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, I don't mind it. I'm not as against it.
It was a weird season for Eric Gordon last year because,
as you mentioned, he shot the ball incredibly poorly at
the start, then he had that oral surgery, he got
like a two thout, and then he went on an
absolute tear shooting like sixty percent from three for like
a three week stretch there, and then he sort of
went downhill once again. It was a season where everything
could go wrong did go wrong, and Eric Gordon was
not a part of the solution, but certainly was not

(10:11):
a big part of the problem there. The biggest selling
point to me would be his relationship with VJ. Edgecomb.
That these are guys that compete together on the Bahamas
national team at the Olympics, which, by the way, Edgecomb
like leading a team with DeAndre eight and Buddy Healed
Eric Gordon there, So if there is some familiarity, you
can kind of sell me on it. I think ultimately
that Gordon will be back, primarily because I don't think

(10:32):
there's going to be a ton of interest league wide,
and I think that this was probably sort of a
handshake agreement between Gordon and Darryll of the just get
off the books for the short term, we'll bring it back.
You can explore your options if you want, but that
would be my guess. My only concern and push back
to that is I kind of feel like we're doing
that at two positions because if Kyle Lowry is back,
which I do think is going to happen as a
mentor sort of role to Jared McCain, and then Eric

(10:54):
Gordon coming back, this commitment is getting younger and more
athletic is sort of getting distorted a bit there. And
obviously were hopeful to not be counting on these guys
for a lot, but it does feel like we'd just
be punning on two roster spots in some way.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
Well it's twofold because you want to get younger and
more athletic in your rotation, but you also want to
get the veteran leadership in there, so like those guys
aren't going to be in the rotation of course you
want to have when injuries happen, and of course six
sixers have to prepare for injuries based on how the
last few seasons have gone. But when those injuries happen,
you want to have younger guys. But you also just

(11:26):
can't have a team full of I don't want to
say immature guys, but younger guys. So having Kyle Larry
on the roster is valuable. I know such expands are
very split on that, like a lot of a lot
of them want him to take a coaching position, and
then I don't know if he wants to do that
necessarily or some type of I'm not gonna play, but
I'm still gonna be around the organization and be on
a staff, whether it's upstairs, in the front office or

(11:47):
whatever it is. People want what it is, Yeah, exactly exactly,
and I think that would be good for him.

Speaker 3 (11:53):
People want him around the organization.

Speaker 4 (11:54):
Obviously, he's a Philly guy, has deep connections to Philly
and the young guys like him on the team, and
he's valuable in that role. But if you need those
guys to play, it's it's it's it's catastrophic because Kyle
Larry and Eric Gordon can't be playing real rotation man's
especially in big games, especially in the playoffs at this
point in their careers. They're just too old and too

(12:15):
slow defensively. So it's small, yeah, and small, But so
it's a too. It's a two prong issue where it's like,
you want you want to get younger and more athletic,
which they did. I thought they accomplished that in your rotation,
but at the same time you also want to have
those veteran leaderships. I think a lot of teams around
the un they are bouncing that and I think that's
something the sixer are going through right now too.

Speaker 2 (12:34):
Yeah, definitely, And it is a bit of that two
timelines conversation of like you want to win now veterans.
But Darrel Moore al has been quite expressive and correct
in assessing that it was a mistake that last year
that they relied a bit too much on the veterans.
They're not getting enough youth, not enough athleticism. But nonetheless,
we'll be interesting to see how the rest of that
shakes out. I do want to hit on the biggest
news of the options yesterday, which is out there in

(12:56):
Los Angeles with Lebron James himself. Now we get the
news Lebron James is officially opted in to his fifty
two point six million dollars player option to remain with
the Lakers last year. But then you open that article
from Sham Shrania and not exactly as a U fourk
A feeling of opting into the contract as one would expect.
So I'm going to read these opening couple paragraphs for you,
Sam Austri and hear what your takeaway from this. So

(13:19):
from Sham Shrani and ESPN, he writes, Los Angeles Lakers
star Lebron James is his exercising his fifty two point
six million dollar player option for the twenty five to
twenty six season. Clutch Sports CEO Rich Paul told ESPN
on Sunday, James, the NBA's career scoring leader, wants to
compete for a championship next season and potentially beyond. Will
be closely monitoring the Lakers moves and whether the team

(13:42):
is positioning itself this offseason to field a title contending roster,
Paul said. Quote, Lebron wants to compete for a championship.
Paul told ESPN he knows the Lakers are building for
the future. He understands that, but he values a realistic
chance at winning it all. We are very appreciative of
the partnership that we've had for eight years with Genie
Buss and Rob Polenka and consider the Lakers a critical

(14:04):
part of his career. We understand the difficulty of winning
now while preparing for the future. We do want to
evaluate what's best for Lebron at this stage of his
life and career. He wants to make every season he
has left count and the Lakers understand that, are supportive
and want what's best for him. A little bit of
a strange I guess four paragraphs.

Speaker 4 (14:24):
Lebron in his camp paragraphs most Lebron has camped statement
of all time after they sign a fifty plus million
dollar option that they yeah, they picked up.

Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah. So what you read on this entire situation with Lebron?
Is this just him getting into news being Lebron a
little bit? Is their legitimate motion to him potentially wanting
out of LA? How do you perceive all of this?

Speaker 4 (14:45):
I don't really care about Lebron's perspective at this point
of his career. If I'm gonna be honest, with you.
I care about the Lakers perspective, and from the Laker's
perspective is they should have hoped that Lebron did not
pick up that option. They should one out of the
Lebron James business at this point because based on how
last season went and how Lebron has visibly declined. And
this doesn't mean you can reing me the raw stats,

(15:06):
can reing me the raw numbers. We know how effective
he still is. He's still top twenty to twenty five
player in the league. But when you go back and
actually look at that season, let me read you Lebron's
net rating. What this team was per one hundred possessions
with Lebron James on the court in November minus seventh
point six, December minus five point seven net rating. He

(15:26):
had a positive net rating in January and February, especially
after Luca came along March minus five point one. On
the season, he had a net rating of minus one
point three. This team was better. This team was better
with Lebron James off the court throughout the entire season
than with him on the court. And he was the
only the only impact rotation player that actually had a

(15:49):
negative net rating. You go back to Anthony Davis when
he was on the team. Some of those guys that
got traded when Luca came all gave Vincent. All these
guys had positive net ratings when they were on the floor.
Lebron had a negative net rating. This sing Lebron saying
it can't be an impact player for this team. How
this Lakers roster is made up where Luca is the guy,
He's going to sign a long term extension in August.

(16:09):
That's what everything points to. You still have Austin Reeves,
who is going to be a freeg F next year
and command a lot of money. You assume the Lakers
are gonna want to pick that up or want to
sign them to a long term extension, depending on how
that how his season goes. That is a weak defensive
backcourt with Luca, Luca, Doncies and Austin Reeves.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
When you add Lebron.

Speaker 4 (16:28):
James to the mix, who is capable of playing great
defensive stretches We saw that in the playoffs against the Wolves,
stretches though throughout an entire season. If you have Lebron James, Luka, Doncics,
and Austin Reeves is your point of attack defenders. You
are going to struggle defensively, whether you have a rim
protector back there or not, like he can't a rim protector.

(16:48):
Whoever it is, whether it's Clin Copella or whatever. We'll
get into that. What the Lakers is going to do
with their center position, whoever it is, can't clean up
all the defensive errors and the blowbys that those three
guys are going to get. And maybe Luca becomes a
very defender. He's everyone says he's being better conditioned, he's
motivated after getting traded and all the dishes that the
MAVs were thrown at him.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
I still that's a weak defense. That's just a weak defense.

Speaker 4 (17:10):
You have to moving on from Lebron James and building
around Luka Doncic is the way to go at this point.
And we saw the team that Luka Doncic was built
around when he actually made a finals run. That was
Kyrie Irving as a secondary ball handler, secondary score.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
I think Austin Reeves. I'm super high on Austin Reaves.

Speaker 4 (17:27):
I think he's ready to be a Kyrie Irving level
player and take on that role. And I know he
shtruggled in the playoffs last year against the Wolves, but
getting some of those playoffs scars and getting some of
that experience will help them. I think he's ready to
take on that role. How you fill out that team
is a rim running center who's a lob threat. He's
a great rim protector, and then shooter wings like PJ Washington.

(17:48):
PJ Washington was a great three and D guy for
the MAVs during that run. Derek Jones junior, great three
and D guy for the MAVs during that run. Lebron
James isn't that role. And it's not that Luke and
Lebron can't play together. Of course they can. They're two
brilliant on bawl on playmakers, some of the smartest basketball
minds we've seen of last generation.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
They can play it again. But they can't.

Speaker 4 (18:08):
It's not smart for those guys to be on the
floor defensively, and at this point you just built you
should be building around Luca Doncis. So there's not going
to be a trade market for Lebron James, which is
a problem. But if I'm the Lakers, I would have
hoped that Lebron left and picked up that or didn't
pick up his option. So I have so much more money.
I'm not spending fifty million dollars on this guy who's
not worth at this point, and I could just build

(18:29):
around Luca Doncics. That was a long soliloquy. But but
I am of the mindset that this Lakers team should
want to move on from Lebron James.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Yeah, a lot of good stuff there. So dig in
at a couple of different points for starters. I will
note Lebron James is gonna be forty one years old
next year, that this will be his NBA record twenty
third season in the league here, the most of any
player of all time. It is pretty much a miracle
in my mind that he's still performing at the level
that he is now. Those are some convincing stats there.

(18:58):
He's still a while the rating you can throw in
my face. He's still a guy I view as like
a positive player, no doubt in my mind, like a
still All Star caliber player. He's just not Lebron James
the way he's been Lebron James most of his career.
I do see it the same way as you. As
far as the keys of the franchiser, in the possession
of Luka Doncic and Frankly, the whole reason that I
thought that the Lakers made that decision is this was

(19:20):
always viewed as the plan is Lebron can sort of
pass the baton. For so long that guy was Anthony Davis.
I think the honest assessment from all parties here was
that Anthony Davis was not a guy that can really
carry the keys as being the face of the Lakers.
Luka Doncic is a guy that can carry those. I
gotta feel like Lebron has a newfound purpose being a
bit of the mentor role, the guy that can show

(19:41):
Luka Doncic the ropes, and I think that is valuable
to an extent. I still think this team can contend,
but the Western Conference is steep. Man, I don't know
what you do if you're the Lakers. I think if
you're Lebron here, this all feels like smoke screens to me, Like,
have you forgotten this team just traded for Luka Doncic,
who's one of the five best basketball players in the world.
For all these conversations that we're having about you, this

(20:02):
is a guy that is still in his peak, still
in his prime, still has plenty of good years ahead
of them. I think this is all smoke screens by Lebron,
and I think he just plays for the Lakers next year.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
I think he's definitely playing for the Lakers next year.
I mean he has to because he picked up his
player option, sure, and so there's no trademarkt for him.
Nobody is training for Lebron James at this point of
his career, somebody when.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
He's on I don't.

Speaker 4 (20:22):
When he's on an expiring deal making fifty plus million,
Why would there be a trade market for this guy? Yeah,
you sell some jerseys, but he has also he has
a new trade close, so he would have to approve
any destination. And why would he leave La His family's there,
he likes living there. Maybe for Cleveland to go back
home for to tear down down.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
But if I'm the Calves, I'm not getting near that.

Speaker 4 (20:42):
Why would I ever sacrifice some future pieces that you'd
have to give up, Davis Garland that deal? Why are
you sacrificing future pieces for Lebron who doesn't put you
over the hump at that point, I'd be more comfortable
at the Calves. I'm that roster. Rather than paying Lebron
James absurd amount for one or two seasons.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
Max.

Speaker 4 (20:58):
That's just dumb business if you're the Caves, just to
bring it this guy home, who Dan Gilbert doesn't even
like that much, even though he's grateful you will he
won a championship for him.

Speaker 3 (21:06):
I don't get it. The thing for me is when.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
You talk about Lebron and the Lakers, it's not like
Lebron can't fit in the Lakers.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
It's the money thing. It's that he's paying.

Speaker 4 (21:15):
He's getting paid fifty plus million dollars next year, and
that's completely handicapping how the Lakers can build this roster.
When you look at the Dorian Finney Smith opted out
of the deal. So if Dory Finny Smith leaves and
goes elsewhere in free agency when that opens later today,
then they'll have the fourteen point one mid level exception Dolfer.
They could give that to a center, They could break
it up between a couple impact starters or maybe a six.

Speaker 3 (21:38):
Man type guy.

Speaker 4 (21:39):
But if Dorian Finney Smith opts in to that deal,
and they should want Dory Finney Smith back. He's a
classic three and D guy who I thought played well
and works well with the Luka Doncic type system.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
They didn't do as well exactly.

Speaker 4 (21:51):
Yeah, and then then they have the opportunity to they
don't have the fourteen point one mid level exception, and
they're gonna have to pay way last first Center. And
it's like, who is so Lebron is completely handicapping this
roster by getting paid over fifty million dollars this season
when he's not worth that contract. Like, Lebron is still
a great player, don't get me wrong. He still is
a top.

Speaker 3 (22:10):
Twenty to twenty five player in the league. But he's
not he's one.

Speaker 4 (22:13):
There's the defensive concerns, and then there's also his health
and his age and his fit instead of just moving
on from Luka doncis So for me, it's like they should.
They can't, they're really handicap right now, but they should
want to get out of Lebron James business. And he
doesn't retire this year, I would let him walk in
free agency next year.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
Wow. And do you think that is the case? Do
you think this is the last ride for Lebron?

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Well?

Speaker 4 (22:37):
No, pretty soon, because I mean we all know he's
he's a guy. Maybe Bray, he's a guy that he
will let everyone know he's retiring. I mean he wants
he wants every farewell tour and he deserves it. Don't
get me wrong, he absolutely deserves a farewell tour, but
he wants it like he loves the attention.

Speaker 3 (22:54):
We all know that.

Speaker 4 (22:55):
So whole won every road arena knowing it's his last game.
So if he's retiring, we'll know pretty early on this season.
He's not going to announce a retirement in March or
after the season or anything, so we'll have an idea
in the next few months.

Speaker 3 (23:07):
I don't think it'll be his last year.

Speaker 4 (23:08):
I think he probably plays one more after this, where
I don't know exactly.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
The only only possible way.

Speaker 4 (23:13):
You would keep him if you're the Lakers is if
he agrees to take a huge pay decrease and like
a very minimum salary type thing, which I don't know
if he will, but that's the only way. It's also
like when you talk about moving on from Lebron, there's
not that connection with him and the Lakers fan base.
There just isn't Like the Lakers have been loyal to him,

(23:34):
but he's not Like, Oh, if you trade Lebron or
something comes of that nature, there's not gonna be some
outrage like there would be when Kobe was there, or
like there was with the MAVs when Luca was there.
There's just not that connection between the Lakers fan base
and Lebron. And it's partly because all the legends that
came before him and the Kobe Lebron stuff that existed,
and he won them a championship. Yes, but it was

(23:55):
twenty twenty. I'm not saying that championship doesn't count. It
was twenty twenty during the COVID bubble where there was
no fans in the arena and there was no parade
or anything after. So it's hard for Lakers fans to
feel that as much of a connection to that championship
and Lebron as they do to the other ones. So
there would be there would be no outrage if Lebron
moved on from the Laker fan base.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, a lot of good points Again here, I for starters,
one thousand percent agree. We will get the victory Tour,
we will get the Lebron James Farewell Tour. We will
get that game where he shoots it eighty times and
you know, has his last standoff air And you're right,
he's earning that, right, he deserves it, But yeah, he
is going to be the one want to be the
kind of guy to collect his flowers on the way out.
I will note Bryce James committed to Arizona, will be

(24:36):
starting there next year. So I don't know what Lebron's
grand plans are. I know that it was obviously very
important for him to be playing with Brownie. Do wonder
if that's a part of the equation as well, But
there was that SoundBite that somebody recorded from a dinner
of Savannah wantspeed or retire within the next year or something. Here.
Cleveland's the only team that makes sense to me that
I could remotely see working for a trade somewhere that

(24:59):
like a Jared Allen to end fillers for Lebron James
style of trade there and for the Cavaliers. I would
do that one hundred times out of one hundred that
I do think in a why do that?

Speaker 3 (25:06):
You would do that?

Speaker 4 (25:07):
It would have to be Darius Groland and Jared Allen
to make those salaries match is and a couple other
pieces too, probably.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Like a Max Strus in there too, you would do that.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
I yes, the short answer, yes, I think you can
get it with Jared Allen and filler. If I'm correct,
I'm looking up his contract now. He's making twenty eight
million this year, So you still need more because.

Speaker 4 (25:27):
As are pretty close to a second Apron team and
they have an absurd payroll.

Speaker 2 (25:31):
Yeah, no, for sure, But I also think they have
to make a change that. I'm of the mindset that
you can't run it back with this team. I know
you disagree with that there that you believe patience gets
rewarded here. I think this team has maxed out who
they are and they're not that different from a team
that's a very good regular season team that can't compete
in the postseason. I believe in Mobile, I believe in
Donovan Mitchell. Here the rest of it, you should be

(25:52):
ready to tweak, and a move up for Lebron James
is one that you absolutely jump on.

Speaker 4 (25:55):
Yeah, we've deliberated on that point a lot. But even
if I was going to concede to you, the Cavs
should make a change. Why would it ever be for
one to two years of Lebron James when he's as
expensive as he is right now. Like, if anything, if
you're treating Daris Carlin, who's a part of your future,
you just sign him to an extension last summer.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
He's a part of your future.

Speaker 4 (26:13):
If you're gonna train him and Jared Allen, two young guys,
you want to have guys who Donovan Mitchell and Evan
Mobley can build around. Not just take a flyer on
Lebron James for one season.

Speaker 3 (26:21):
Who I don't think.

Speaker 4 (26:22):
I mean, it's the East, so maybe it puts you
over the top a little bit, but still I don't
think you take a flyer for one or two seasons.

Speaker 2 (26:28):
But I think that's the answer right there, is that
they're currently the betting favorites in the Eastern Conference. They're
currently the favorites to win win the East. Like, if
that's your situation and it is as wide open as
it will ever be here, you take that swing and
have a chance of winning a championship. Lebron James has
done it in your city before you bring him back
and give him a chance to do that. I do
think that that team that Cleveland Tea needs a punch

(26:50):
of something. And I still think Donovan Mitchell can be
like the lead guy on a team to an extent
with Lebron still being like sort of the sidekick, sort
of a guy who's still delivering it and mobily being
like defensive minded guy. I see the way that it
would fit together.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
But but but if Lebron I get it, Like, yes,
they would be the favorites in the East, and they
are the favorites in the East without Lebron and how
they're currently constructed. If Lebron comes number one, he's older,
he's had more no major injuries last few years, but
more injuries where he's had to miss serious regular season time.
This team wouldn't be as good or be able to
withstand a regular season like they have before, or the

(27:25):
or they did last year or even the year before
that when Darius Garland other guys were injured a ton.
Why like if you're if you're bringing on Lebron James,
you can't just bank on one season. Anything can happen
in one season where it's injuries to an older guy
so much so many unlucky things, Like we've seen the
best teams and the teams have become champions are the
teams that are just healthiest the latest. So why are

(27:46):
you bringing on this guy who's forty plus years old?
And we get he's a freak of nature. How he's
avoided injuries and still playing this level is absurd. But
that's just it's it to me, that's pretty dumb business
to bring on this guy for one season and hope
it works for one or may be maximum two seasons,
a guy who's over forty years old, and then when
he leaves or retires, you're what are you left with?

(28:06):
I mean you'll still you still Donald Mitchell and Ev Mobley,
but you don't have the parts that you had before
to build a build a contender around.

Speaker 3 (28:13):
So that that's my old thing.

Speaker 4 (28:13):
If you're gonna trade those guys, it shouldn't be for
a guy who's forty one years old.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
Was it a mistake for the Toronto Raptors to trade
for Kawhi Leonard?

Speaker 4 (28:21):
That that that came to mind as I was speaking there. No,
it wasn't a mistake, of course, because like like you
want to look at the results. No, but what did
the what did the Raptors give up to get to
get tomar a pick?

Speaker 3 (28:37):
Work wasn't working.

Speaker 4 (28:38):
The Raptors had been there, done that year after year
after year with that team, to Marta Rozan, Kyle Lowry,
it just wasn't working with that group.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
It was it wasn't. But it was also like Derozen
was a guy that sort of was loved by the
fan base, had been in Toronto for years, was a
dude that like was very appreciated. It was a ballsy
move by the Raptors. And you know what happened is
they won a championship and then walked right back over
the border to America to go to Los Angeles the
following season. And you should take that result ten times

(29:06):
out of ten if year, here's the.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
Thing, here's the thing.

Speaker 4 (29:09):
You could take that result and then look at the
last five years after that, it's been a disaster. Ever
since Kwhi Leonard left. It's just been they've been the
worst team every single season. And now I'm beside, your
jury is out the door because he's handled it really
badly since Kawhi. So he took a massive swing for
a championship and it paid off, but it doesn't always
pay off. They got really lucky with their health and
everything and just the bounces that they got, Like it

(29:30):
takes luck to win a championship.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
It's so hard to win a championship, and they did it.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
They got lucky, but it was similar because they look
what happened after after Kawhi left, after Lebron James would
leave the Caves, they would be screwed in a lot
of ways, and the Raptors have have dealt with those
consequences winning that championship, going all in for that championship,
because it's been a disastrous five six year stretch ever
since first Starters.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
I think you take that trade off and they would
at the time, would now would at any point in between.
I also think that this Cavaliers potential trade it is
not nearly as risky as the Kaui one is because
there is that relationship with Lebron, and obviously the age
is a factor here, but like that provides some juice,
energy and belief to a fan base in a way
that I don't even know if Kawhi fully did at

(30:13):
the time. Like I while the Raptors were great already
and this was like get them over the top sort
of move here, I didn't like think that this is
absolutely gonna work in the way that if Lebron goes
to the East, the Cavlayers are like the comfortable title
favorites from an Eastern Conference favorite.

Speaker 4 (30:28):
Like, like, you don't think this roster is good enough
right now, or at least that core four I do,
and then they're the title favorites right now to come
out of the East. So I still think this team
is good enough in a really weak East. If they
come head dead with a thunder gun next year, I'm
not saying they can win the championship, but in a
really weak East, I still have them as number one.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
I can't take them serious from a playoff perspective until
there's changes. I just can't. That's how I view this
Cavs team, and I think that's how they should be themselves.
On the interior, I can't. I don't think Jared Allen
can help you compete from a playoff perspective. I don't
think Darius Garland can coexist with Donovan Mitchell on a
playoff perspective the way that it's designed, and we now
have two like significant years of playoffs sample size to

(31:08):
go up they had.

Speaker 4 (31:09):
I don't think it's fair to say Darius Garland this
season was a real playoff front from he was dealing
with a serious toe injury, missed some time and then
they had to get surgery after the year, so it
wasn't something light and he's already a liability to an
extent defensively, but he was just an absolute share out
there because of his toe.

Speaker 3 (31:26):
It was a real problem, it was.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
But like, like, I don't know, man, you can't ask
for much of a better opportunity than was there for
them this season, and they got smoked by the Pacers.
I get it Ages a little bit better, but after
blowing out that he the largest margin of victory in
a sweep in NBA history one hundred and twenty two
combined points for those four victories there, they got sent
home in five games by that Pacers team. And I

(31:49):
get again at Age is better because the Pacers looked
good here. But my feeling when watching those games at
the times was it's just donovd, Mitchell and I have
mobilely trying their butts off, and nobody else has anything
to bring to the table here.

Speaker 4 (31:59):
I think something we learned from the Pacers run is
let's not overreact to all this. They were on a magical,
incredible run, a team that just clicked at the right time,
and you could make the argument that they should have
beat the Oklahoma City thunder Like, who were the biggest
favorites in a long time in the NBA Finals if
we don't know what happens if Tyres Haliburn doesn't tear
his achilles in that opening quarter. So this team took
the Thunder to seven. They beat the Knicks, beat the Calves, Like,

(32:21):
I'm not overreacting. I think the Calves have done a
good job staying patient. I think the Knicks did a
bad job overreacting to that PACER's loss and firing Tom
Thibodeaux and still June thirtieth year without a coach, free
agency and the draft or here and still no coach.
But I just I don't think you overreact to a massive,
huge Pacers run. That was just an improbable journey that

(32:43):
they were on with. You could say luck, voodoo, magic,
whatever it was. But it was a crazy run, and
I think you don't overreact to that. I think you
still run this Cavs team back and Kenny Atkins Atkinson
system at least one more year, and then you have
another playoff flame out. Sure, but I think you've seen
patients get rewarded in the past throughout the end. I
think it's worse stank patient.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
I think having two consecutive coaches publicly to the media
questioning the mental toughness of the team is far more
a concern than anything I've seen the plant there. At
this point, I did want to mention you brought up
the Knicks requesting or not requesting a rumor that they
interviewed or wanted to interview Don Staley for the head
coaching job first starters. Any thoughts on that, Sam.

Speaker 3 (33:23):
Yeah, I mean I don't believe it. There's a lot
of rumors out there this time of year.

Speaker 4 (33:26):
I don't really maybe someone in the front office talk
to your agent or something like that, and then there
was some back and forth just talking about the job.
She's not getting an It's no respect. I mean, she's
an absolute brilliant basketball coach and a staple in women's basketball,
and then the has contributed to the rise and the

(33:47):
success of women's basketball. So no respect to Don Staley,
a Philly legend, just an absolute goat what she does.
She's not getting an interview for the next head coaching job.
I can promise you that. So that that was just
a lot of rumors that Twitter likes to run with.
Then it was fun content, but she's not getting even
an interview with the.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Next I think that's all probably fair and much loved
to Don Staley there, but I did want to bring
that up as a transition. Do we do have some
breaking news in that vicinity here? The Philadelphia will be
getting a WNBA team starting I believe twenty twenty eight
is the year to give the full update here.

Speaker 3 (34:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:19):
WNBA to expand to Cleveland, Detroit, and Philadelphia over the
next five years, giving the league eighteen teams. Any thoughts
on the team from the w coming to Philly.

Speaker 4 (34:29):
Well, we talked about this, didn't We talked about this
last week saying it should Yeah, I've definitely I think so.

Speaker 3 (34:34):
It was on Brace's show.

Speaker 4 (34:35):
Oh yeah, Josh Harris, I just saw the statement on
the Daily Ticket last week.

Speaker 3 (34:39):
We were talking about it. I think it's great. I
think it's awesome.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
Philly should there were a city like when it went
to Golden State last year. I know that Philly had
been putting on a bid for a while and then
wanted the WMA team and.

Speaker 3 (34:50):
That random expansion.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
I think they were a little disappointed they didn't get
it in the last round of expansion went to some
other cities like Golden State and others. But they keep
pursuing it and now they have women's basketball tea, which
is awesome. I mean, I think it's awesome. Wmb success
last few years has been great. I don't know the details.
I guess they'll be in the Walls Fargo Center whatever
it's called, the X Fifity Center now the Exfinity Arena.

(35:12):
I guess they'll be playing there too. But I think
it's awesome that they get wmba team.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Yeah. No, I think it is very cool as well.
And I know this was I'm sure part of this
was very tied into the whole stadium debate that was
going down a while ago, so there was plenty of
conversations with all of this. But nonetheless, it's been overdue
that there should be a WNBA team in Philadelphia, and
I do think that they will get a crowd beyond
what is the case is some of these other arenas
here that I do think it's a long time coming.
There's plenty of talent there and there's some legitimate like

(35:36):
Philly Hooper is in the WANBA. Natasha Cloud has been
tearing things up this year for the Liberty balling out there.
Sure from Philly there on our own there so a
lot of good stuff and maybe.

Speaker 4 (35:47):
That's twenty thirty, just had some context to twenty thirty
will be when Philly gets a team there. I guess
that's the next round of expansion they're doing so five
years away, but still.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
Yeah, step in the right direction there, So shout out
to everyone that helped make that happened. I'm will be excited.
I have to admit here, I don't know what this
says about me as basketball sicico, but I've watched like
probably thirty plus w NBA games over the past month,
and I never thought I'd be saying that about myself.
So yeah, shout out to us for you.

Speaker 3 (36:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (36:15):
Zero, But I should get into it now that the NBA
season's over.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
It's fun, man, it is entertaining. It's better.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
I like watching the clips and everything. I like following it.

Speaker 4 (36:23):
But yeah, now that the NBA season's overall, I'll be
getting into it more.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Yeah, like I'll know from when I first had tuned
in a little bit like a couple of years ago
to now, the quality of plays miles better and kind
of cool that it is progressing in that way there.

Speaker 3 (36:36):
But fever struggling too.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
I saw Kayln Clark is struggling and some one of
my friends was telling me this weekend, like it's really
the propaganda machine with Kayln Clark is absurd. I mean
she's been really struggling the last few games, and you've
been struggling, Yeah, and you don't hear a word about it, Like,
not a word. It's just when she does well, it's
it's the Kaylen Clark hype machine just is a full force.

Speaker 3 (36:59):
And but when she struggles, you don't hear anything about it.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
Yeah, she's battled some injuries lately. After playing every single
game at Iowa and all forty her rookie season here,
she's already missed I think her seventh and eighth game
was this weekend here. For Kaitlyn Clark there so battling
a couple things. It is NonStop the way that these
girls go through basketball too, Like for the NBA, it
is this like you know, long break when it is
the off season here generally, like all these WNBA players,

(37:24):
they're right to play in another league and like three
on three hoops we're playing it like even right now,
a ton of these girls have left for international duty
and representing in the euro Basket there. So like like
Camilla Cardoso, I'm the Chicago, Skuy, she's representing Brazil out there,
just stepping away from the team. They are really not
a lot of downtime frenzies, so it is a grind
on the body. But yeah, I hear you about Kaitlyn Clark.
The efficiency and the turnovers have been a little bit

(37:47):
of a problem this year, but she's still been solid overall.

Speaker 4 (37:50):
Since we're all over the place, free agency schedules are
free agency special today. I mean, this is the time
of year we're going to be all over the place
because there's not a lot of games being played, well
no games being played. Let me give you a prediction, okay,
uh you brought the Raptors earlier and then messiou jury
And I was thinking about this over the weekend. Massaiou

(38:11):
Jury is going to be the Dallas Mavericks President bass
operations after next season. Next offseason, Nico Harrison will be
out by then. I think the fans will continue to
put pressure on the ownership group throughout the year as
they also celebrate celebrate ushering in the new era of
Cooper Flag. And I think once Nico Harrison's out, you
have this really prized possession as a as a general

(38:34):
manager and president Bast Operations, who's had success before over
the last twenty plus years in.

Speaker 3 (38:41):
The NBA as a GM. Obviously, he was pretty disastrous
last year's with the Raptors.

Speaker 4 (38:46):
It almost felt like he was checked out. It was
just some very questionable decisions. I still think he's out.
He's gonna be a hot commodity on that market next year,
and more teams gonna be willing to depart with their
current situation, and I think the MAVs are a perfect
team that should want to depart with situation. Nico Harrison,
as we know, the worst executive in all of basketball
for for many reasons, but number one trading Luca Dontrich

(39:07):
and then justifying it with the most ridiculous justifications he's
possibly provided.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
And fortunately favors the brave Yeah fortune. Yeah, just as certain.

Speaker 4 (39:15):
And then what he says said, this was the plan
the whole time, or plans finally coming from fruition.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, I think you said people are now starting to
see the vision. Was another quote.

Speaker 4 (39:23):
Yes, your your plan was to get one hundred million
dollars lottery ticket and hit the lottery.

Speaker 2 (39:27):
Great play in tournament.

Speaker 4 (39:30):
A successful, successful line of thinking. So yeah, so I
think he's gonna be out. I think Messiu Jersey and
the next president of basketball reason operations for the MAVs,
which will be re juveniated, will be ready to go
in a new city with a new franchise, and I
think that'll be good for Cooper Flag's future.

Speaker 2 (39:46):
Yeah, I don't I like the prediction there that those
were not doubts that I connected there. I will note
what seems to be the spin from the Toronto people
is that they just believe that Massi was just stretched
too thin with his basketball beyond borders the work that
he does in Africa. Africa a couple of nonprofit endeavors
that he does participate in, so he's just got a
lot on his play and they seem to believe that
some of the decision making process as it pertains to

(40:08):
the Raptors sort of suffered as a result of that.
So obviously that's why they went that direction. Still kind
of shocking to me to do it literally like less
than twelve hours after the draft there that that, like
that's when you make the firing is really I.

Speaker 4 (40:20):
Don't get that, Like, what are these organizations thinking? Like,
I get I get your your point about being stretched
too thin is definitely valid, because there's definitely some truth
to that. I don't get the thinking, though, Like you
knew you were you the whole The season ended months ago.
The season ended months ago. You had this whole time
to figure out what you're gonna do with it. Why
are you waiting until after the draft? You obviously don't
trust his decision making at this point and when to

(40:42):
move on from him, but you're gonna let him draft
your future, especially when they had the tenth pick or
the ninth pick in the draft. I believe it's like, Wow,
where is the logic behind that? It's like sometimes these
organizations and these ownership groups logic are just like like
what are we even doing it? Like it's just it's
such rational thinking that they're incapable of sometimes, And.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
Like I had at Ingram, like mass I traded for
brandon Ingram and then gave him a hefty contract extension.
He's yet to play a game for the Raptors yet,
and then he's out of there. So yeah, it's gonna
be interesting. That was a shock to me. I was
that one caught me off guard. I was surprised that
Messiah one of the gms that I think you know
makes headlines in his name recognition. There's not a ton

(41:20):
of those around the league there. Now, I did want
to transition speaking of gms here, it's a little bit
of a fun practice that you have put together in
ranking the top GM spots in each conference. Here, So Sam,
I'm gonna let you take the floor and go through
the rankings. Here, I'll bounce and takes off each of these.
We're gonna start in the Eastern Conference with which which
would what would be your top five GM jobs that
you want to take moving forward?

Speaker 4 (41:40):
Yeah, well, you already can disagree with the first song
is you already went back and forth.

Speaker 3 (41:43):
But the Cleveland it's Cleveland.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
Wow, the team that I would want right now. If
I'm a GM and I have all the teams in
the Eastern Conference and it's an open market, I can
go be the general manager and run this team for
the next five years. The roster I'm with the next
five years it's the Cleveland Clavitors, the number one and
then the favorites for a reason, because they had the
best offense in the league last year. I still trust

(42:07):
Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobly that pairing, and even if
you want to say you want to move on from
Jared Allen. Having that luxury of a player like that
who would command a decent amount on the trade market
is a good thing and it's a good asset to
have as a general manager. They're deep, they have a
ton of depth. I think this this Calves team is
the best roster right now, and they're young enough where

(42:28):
this roster is going to continue to contend the next
few years. So I have of any team in the East,
I'd love to hear one that you'd rather take over
the Calves, but I'm taking the Calves number one.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, my number one pick would be the Orlando Magic.
Pretty clearly here, I think you can talk about a
lot of the same points that their youthful Palo Bancaro
I think is going to be better than any player
currently on the Cleveland Cavaliers roster, and in the pretty
short term here, Franz Wagner I had the biggest Franz
Wagner guy, but you can see the talent there. They
just took the swing trading for Desmond Baine, who's a
perfect fit for what they need. They still got a

(42:58):
ton of young guys. Jasson, I absolutely love getting him
in the first round this year. Anthony Black's intriguing there.
They got a ton of young guards that are are
Wendell Carter, I even like a little bit Jonathan Isaac
can really scrap up defensively. They have a ton of pieces,
they sell, some flexibility. It was a big swing getting Bane,
but ultimately, like I think the were Lando Magic are
position for some long term success and Pala Bancaro is

(43:20):
really what brings me to making this call.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
I thought long, long and hard about the Magic. I
didn't even put them in my top five really, and
and look, I love Polo.

Speaker 4 (43:29):
I love Polo, but there's the Franz Wagner shooting thing
is becoming a serious concern. I agree sketches were without Polow,
so there's still some questionable fits to it.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Again, Desmond Bean, we talked about it. We both agreed.

Speaker 4 (43:39):
Amazing fit, brilliant trade and good all in move by
the Magic. He's a great three point shooter other than
him last year we talked about you. You love to
bring us up all the time. They're one of the
worst three point shooting teams the last decade. I mean,
the shooting even with even with Desmond Bean, it's still
there a lot of shooting concerns with this team, and

(44:00):
I do think they have a good young core. I
think they're gonna be contending for the next few years.
But I just over some of these other teams, I
don't trust them over the Caves. I don't think they're
a better team than the Calves at this point. I
don't think their offense is gonna be nearly as good
as the Calves at this point, and their defense is
what carried them to the playoffs last couple of seasons.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
And I love Polo again.

Speaker 4 (44:17):
The shooting and just the shot making from Polo has
to improve. I think it will because I think he's
an incredible playmaker and when he has the right roster
around him, he can be a one A guy or
a number one guy. But I think this Caves team
is better position, and even the number two team, like
I have the Celtics number two.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
I don't hate that. I can live with that. Take
more my like.

Speaker 4 (44:39):
I just think the Celtics demise has been greatly, greatly exaggerated.
I expect Jason Tatum to come back from an achilles
injury looking pretty well and looking like himself. He's young, enough.
We've seen guys even older than him, Kevin Durant obviously
being the model, come back from achilles injuries and be
completely fine. So yeah, he's gonna take all next year off.
It'll be a gap year sense through the Celtics. When

(45:01):
they return, they'll still have Derek White, Jalen Brown, and
Jason Tatum. I don't know if there's a better trio
in the entire East after next season than those three.
And that is a great starting point. Assuming those guys
Jalen Brown and Derek White don't get dealt They just
shed a ton of salary with with Chris Stabs and
jew Holiday. Anthony Simons is an expiring deal. We'll say

(45:22):
what he does this year. Maybe they trade him out
mid season. With that trio Derek White, Jaylen Brown, Jason Tatum,
I still think for the next five years he have
a gap year. Next year, maybe you'll you should be
a playoff team. You're not gonna really contend for a championship.
But those four years after that, when Jason Tatum returns,
I think the Celtics are right back. There is deep
king of the East and they have the best front

(45:43):
offs in the league. So I think they're gonna continue
to build around those guys. I think I'm pretty positive
about and happy if I'm a Celtics fan about the
position they're in considering the circumstances with Jason Tatum's injury.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
Yeah, I totally agree with all that, and I think
like it's gonna be a strange year. By the way,
when we talk about like a gap year, the Celtics
are still gonna be like a probable playoff team.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
I think, like, yeah, I think a playoff team, but
like the same thing even with the Bucks, like they'll
always be a playoff team. When if they're taking gap
years with Giannis on the roster, but they're not gonna
really contend for anything.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Sure, no, I think that's very fair. But I'm with
you that I think the demise has been largely overstated
to this point. The only thing that I'll stick up
for my magic take here real quick is the Franz
Wagner conversation. I'm with you. I kind of think he's
a flawed basketball player, and I think him and Palo
probably will be at their best on different teams in
the long run. That's a valuable asset that teams are
gonna pay a pretty penny to get if you ultimately

(46:38):
come to that decision here. So to your point about
Jared Allen, I think Franz Wagner is fetching a even
richer return and a guy that more teams would be
interested in. So that puts me in a better spot there.
We're gonna have very different lists here as So you
went Cavaliers won Celtics two. My I meadiate brain went
Orlando Magic one, Indiana Pacers too. You're still live my list.

Speaker 4 (47:01):
Let me read you my list because now that I'm
looking at it, because I had the Magic as six,
like right after I pump, I'm pushing the Pacers out
on all the pacers in the top five. Pacers were five,
and now I'm switching the Magic and Pacers because he
made some good points. So I'm me just read you
my list and then you can go ahead. So Cavs
won Celtics two, Nicks three, Pistons four, and now Magic

(47:21):
five and then Pacers six. Yeah, fe hit me on
the Pacers and I respond because I'm not very high
on this team's future.

Speaker 3 (47:27):
At this point.

Speaker 2 (47:28):
I mean, they're for starters, they're coming off in NBA Finals.
They went to the Conference finals last year. The Tyres
Haliburton Achilles has changes the equation to an extent, But
I still think they got a ton of young talent,
like a guy like Jars Walker, who I still really like,
Like there's not even really minutes for him on the floor.
They're so deep, they have so many different directions, so
many different styles that they can play here, a guy

(47:50):
like Andrew Nemhart I think is gonna be a playoff
riser forever, Aaron Nasmith. They've done a really nice job
grabbing guys off the scrap heap. They're still adding young
talent through the draft here. They're still pretty positioned from
well positioned from a Draft Picks standpoint, ownership willing to
go above the luxury tax lines and spend more than
they ever have before to keep this corp together. I
just think that there is legitimately something too their fun

(48:11):
style of basketball, everyone getting involved, and I think like
they straight up have the most depth of any NBA
team in the league, maybe outside of the Thunder here.
And I'm locked in that, like, I think that's a
good spot. I get your top end star is always
going to be probably the voice of raisoner what's holding
you back here? But Tyrese Sliburn is good man, and
he's still very young, still getting better, and I'm willing
to take a bat on this team.

Speaker 4 (48:32):
Well, so first next year is a complete wash for
the Pacers. As we know about Tyris Aliburn, he's the
identity of that team. So I don't even know if
this team will be a playoff team next year without
Tyres Haliburn. We'll see how they try to get a
guy in to play some point guard because Andrew Nemboardy
can get.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
A lot of those reps.

Speaker 2 (48:47):
But TJ McConnell man.

Speaker 4 (48:50):
Maybe TJ McConnell's a full time point guard. We'll find
out next year. They have the Miles Turner question and
free agency coming up from later today. All signs pointed
that he's gonna be back with the Pacers, but still
he's there are a lot of interested suitors out there,
even though he the poor finals shooting the ball.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
There's a lot of interested suitors out there for Miles Turner.

Speaker 4 (49:09):
I have concerns about Tyre's hallimaner or returning from an
achilles injury. And it's not like we just talked about
with Jason Tatum, how I'm comfortable with him returning and
they're more You're more likely to return back to your
normal self now from an Achilles injury than ever before.
But what's always been the big question with Tyre's Salimer.
It's been his aggressiveness. And that's not just as a score,
but that's as a pastor. Like when he's aggressive, this

(49:31):
pacers offense goes. I think there's gonna be a serious,
serious mental hurder as there is for anyone returning from
any injury, but especially an Achilles injury, a serious mental
hurdle for Tyre's Halliburn coming back from an Achilles injury,
where it's like you could see a couple of seasons
before he even returns to his aggressive self. And I

(49:51):
think it's gonna be like it's just gonna be a
mental block that he has to get through. And that's
with anyone, but I think I could see that being
a bigger issue for Tyre Haliburn to get through because
it took him a few years to even play with
a proper aggressiveness, uh as a pacer, but also in
the NBA. So I'm concerned about that. And then when
you're looking at a five year window down there. I
don't think this Pacers team is ever gonna be back

(50:13):
in the finals the next five years. To me, as
we were more away from the finals and that series
against the Thunder, it feels just more like an absurd,
fluky run with some improbable shots, improbable comebacks that I
don't see ever happening again. I don't think this Pacers
team is going to be in the finals as long
as with tyres Haliburn.

Speaker 3 (50:32):
Ever. Again, that's not hating, that's.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Not but that is exactly.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
It's just it's just gonna be a fact.

Speaker 4 (50:37):
It's gonna be a fact by the time our window
here is when Philly gets a wm A team in
twenty thirty, there will be no Pacers in the championship until.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
So you're you're just back to being a full out
ty No, that's not.

Speaker 3 (50:49):
That's not it's not being here. I was so impressed
with the what he did and it's so sad what
happened with the Achilles. But you don't think there's any
valid val that you don't think there's any justifiable reasoning
to my point that he is going to have a
more difficult time coming back to an aggressive player than
some other guys off the Achilles injury.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Yeah, obviously him being two years younger than Tatum certainly
hurts him in that outlook there. Him having the exact same.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Boyle of play plays with what we've seen from his career.
That's what it is.

Speaker 2 (51:17):
I don't I think you don't give Tyre Salvern enough credit.
And I don't think that's a common theme there. The
dude is not gonna be afraid man like I I
think like him. You're right about the lack of aggression.
I think, to be honest, that's more like him over
overpassing or him trying to be mister good teammate in
a way where sometimes the team just needs to do attack. Dude, like,
I don't think it's a fear thing or him not

(51:38):
wanting to score anything like that.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
It's not a free like. I'm not like, the guy's
not a fred I mean, obviously what we've seen, he's
not afraid. It's not anything like that.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
It's just it's it's more his his his natural instinct
is to be a pass for a guy.

Speaker 3 (51:50):
But again, the aggressive this isn't just as a score.

Speaker 4 (51:52):
I don't really it's not just about his shot attention
all that when when he's aggressive getting down hill, it
opens up everything. Collapse on defense opens up everything for
what the Pacers got. And you saw in some of
his poor performances throughout the playoffs he was just not aggressive.
And it wasn't just as a scores as a passer room.
And Drew Hanlen even told the story before he worked
with him, he had he had dinner with him.

Speaker 3 (52:13):
I think it was in Philly. Yeah, he had dinner
with him in Philly that he.

Speaker 4 (52:16):
Told the story and Tyreus Halliburn he said before, He's like,
you have to take this amount of shots and I
have to see you play with this level of aggressiveness
or else I'm not going to work with you. And
tyres Aliburn went out and bowled that night, and Drew
Hanlan said, fine, I'll work with you. But it's just
there's always been the aggressiveness has always been a struggle
for him and doesn't come naturally or easily for the
guy You're.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Right about, Like the aggressiveness conversation, I don't think it
is connected to the Achilles tear, like I like, I don't.
I don't think we can justifiably say that, like it's
gonna be a greater issue after your atturnis for injury.
There's a world where this guy locks in, watches tape
for the next nine months and says, actually, this is
how I need to attack ring Now rings his belt too, Yeah,
it rings his belt too. I do love that. So

(52:59):
I would throw this Celtics in my third spot here
going down the top five, and then I went Pistons four.
So make me your next pitch here, because as as
we get into the hater conversation or Nazi in the vision,
that's where I sit out with that organization.

Speaker 3 (53:13):
Did you have the Knicks on the top five or no?

Speaker 2 (53:17):
I think no, I'm sticking to that. I'm sticking to
the bit here. I'm keeping him out. I admit it
a bit. At least you admit it's a bit to
an extent. I'll make the case right now. I think
the Sixers are in a better five year spot than
the near Knicks.

Speaker 3 (53:31):
That's absurd, I mean that's absurd. Yeah, because the Knicks,
you could say the aging and all that, the Knicks
core is still young and talented. They are.

Speaker 4 (53:41):
They're the fifth best record in the entire NBA last year,
like Jalen Brunson's he's not He's not young, but he's
also not old. And I think there's some truth to
Jaalen Brunton, the physicality he plays with and the bumps
and bruises he take. He might have a shorter prime,
but still the crime of his career right now. We
just hit his prime a couple of seasons ago. You
could argue you still Towns, who is many more years
in his prime. Mckil bridge and Og and Moby are

(54:04):
dead center in the middle of their primes and continue
to grow as players. Like this core of this team,
those four guys are are are going to be around
for the next foreseeable future. When we saw what they
were this year in their first year together, they were
the fifth best team in the entire NBA during the
regular season and made the conference finals.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
And that is just the the.

Speaker 4 (54:24):
That's the that's the group that just started playing together
this season. Like mckail bridges, this is first year playing
with those guys. Kar Anthony Town's first year playing with
Jylen Bronson. I think the jenle Bruns of Cornthon Towns
deal will continue to get better. This team will be
contending for the next for the rest of this decade,
for the next five years, well, based on what we
saw this year. Now they've a new coach coming in,
hopefully bringing a new new offense utilizing mckel bridges more,

(54:47):
utilizing the pick the Karnthon Towns, jenlen Brunson picking pop More,
which we saw that them go away from the second
half of the season. So I think this team will
be contending for championships for the next five years based
on what we saw this year, which was a top
five team in the NBA, A.

Speaker 2 (55:01):
Top five team that that.

Speaker 4 (55:06):
Went ten against the three best teams and then beat
the Celtics in the seven game series.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Yeah, the Celtics one. They squeaked by the Pistons. Here's
my thing. I just think they're topped out. Like I
think they're tapped out. This is exactly the New York
Knicks are. Obviously, they clearly had a very very concise
plan in place for the next head coach when they
fired Tom Thibodeau, as they executed that at a rapid
rate once the season ended. Or wait, no, they actually
are still searching for head coach here, But I mean

(55:31):
Jylen Bronson twenty nine. Karl Anthony Towns thirty. They're not young,
and I do think from to put the Sixers angle
on it, I'm very high on the Jared McCain future,
the VJ Edge Home future, the Tyrese Maxie not close
to a finished product. And I would make the case
this is where you're gonna come in and call me
crazy here, Tyrese Maxie is gonna be better than Jalen Bronson.

(55:52):
Yes he is, Yeah, but.

Speaker 3 (55:57):
It's not even worth response.

Speaker 4 (55:59):
What do you mean he's gonna what do you mean
he's going to be better than Tyree's than Jalen Brunton.
What evidence is there possibly to show you Tyres Maxian.
I love Tyris Maxie, so I don't want to disparage him,
but what evidence is there to show you that he
can be the best player on a team. He's never
been the best player on a winning team in his
entire career. We've seen the stretches without Joel Embiid when
they've really struggled. When he's had to be the best

(56:20):
player on the entire team. Jalen Brunston has now carried
many teams back to back to back to the postseason
as the best player on the team just carried the
knickt to Eastagram's Finals.

Speaker 3 (56:30):
Is the best player on the team? What how could
you possibly justify that Tyres Maxi will be the better
player and ever be able to carry a team the
way Jalen Brunson have. I'd love to hear the justification.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Because he's very clearly on track to be that that
we did not see Jalen Bronston carry teams until he
got the New York Knicks. That this dude was a
sidekick at best for most of his career. Based on
their trajectory, the pathway that they're on. The Tyrese Maxie
this year is twenty four years old, or was twenty
four this past season. You know what Jaylen Brownson was
doing at age twenty four, He was playing twenty five
minutes per game, averaging twelve point six points per game

(57:02):
off the bench for the Dallas Mavericks. He came in
fourth and sixth Man of the Year voting this year.
That was the trajectory that Jalen Bronson was on. Tyre's Maxie.
A better shooter than Jalen Bronson physically, a can get
downhill and run at a pace where Jalen Brunson couldn't
dream of getting to He's a better athlete than Jalen Bronson.
And yes, Brunson's better playmaker. Yes there are some intricacies

(57:23):
and advances a better score too.

Speaker 4 (57:24):
You could say the shooter all this stuff like it
doesn't matter how you score it. Bronson's footwork and how
he manages to score makes him a better score than
than Tyris.

Speaker 2 (57:32):
Maax max He's a better defender.

Speaker 3 (57:35):
I don't know about that. Yeah, they're both. They're both.
They're both pretty weak defenders who teams will target in
the playoffs if it is by it Tinian, Tyrs Maxy
has made leaps, But look Tyris Maxie, if he's ever
in the playoffs, heres again, he will be targeted relentlessly,
even if he has made strives as a defender. So like,
maybe there's leaps that he's a little better.

Speaker 4 (57:53):
I thought jam Bruns did a good job and switches
against Celtics. I thought he really struggled against the Pacers
through stretches of that series. I just I don't think
that you can argue that Tyres Maxie is a better defender.
If anything, it's by slight margin. And to your point
about the age difference, sure, but it's also to me
about how many years these guys have been in the league.
Jolen Bruns has only been in the league seven years.

(58:13):
Max has been in the league five years at this point.
So when you say like how many how long? Yes, Max,
He's gonna play longer because he started younger when Jim
Bunson played in college for a while. But still, how
many years have they been in the league. They both
had a decent amount of time in the league. And
who's the remarkably, remarkably better player.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
It's Jaylen Brunson.

Speaker 2 (58:33):
I mean, I'm not arguing right now that Tyrius maxis
better than Jalen Bronson. I am arguing that he will be,
but I do think that he will get to that level.
I think a lot of people have forgot how good
Tyree Maxy is because of what a disaster we were
twelve months removed from Maxico and bar for Barr with
Jalen Bronson and then against the New York Knicks in
the playoffs. Do we forget about those moments?

Speaker 3 (58:52):
No?

Speaker 4 (58:53):
Those MAXI was awesome in that series. But who ultimately
won that series in six games? Who's Jylen Brunson's team
that won that series in six games. I just I
think I love Tyres Maxy. I think he is going
to be a perennial, perennial All Star. You can win
with him as your second guy. But what I would
say in response to that is, we've seen the stretches

(59:15):
when he's played without him beat They've been inefficient stretches.
They've been bad, And the team's always been built around Embiid,
so he hasn't always had the proper team, but he's
still he's been inefficient, and like we've seen, we haven't
seen him take those leaps without Joel Embiid. And if
Joel Embid is gonna sit this year, I want to
see that more. But we just haven't seen him be

(59:35):
the best player on a winning team ever in the
five seasons that he's been here, So I don't know
why there's any reason to believe that he can eventually
become that, even though I do think he's not done
growing as a player.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
Well, we will see with the Tyreese Maxi conversation, but
I I will just say, if he made me better
on one guy, maximizing his full potential in the entire league,
it would be titanse MAXI that I do think that
he's every bit of that one percent better. Every day
he buys, he works hard, he works his tail off here,
and uh yeah, I think I'll be running victory laps
on this conversation about ten years from now, I really do.

Speaker 4 (01:00:07):
We'll go to a WNBA game and maybe in twenty thirty,
when Brunston had probably has two championships.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Oh yeah, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Then maybe then maybe we'll see uh but by then.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
Just as you feel, and the Pacers will never make
it back, I feel cemented. And there's no chance that
Jalen Browns can be the best player on championship team, Like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:27):
How can you say that?

Speaker 4 (01:00:29):
Though, after we've seen them go into into the Eastern
Garmands Finals and they just they collapsed in Game one
against the Pacers.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Like the Pacers were the better overall.

Speaker 4 (01:00:37):
Team, But the Knicks didn't lose that series because Jalen
Brunston can't be the best player on a championship team.

Speaker 3 (01:00:44):
That's not why they lost series.

Speaker 4 (01:00:45):
They'd improbable come back in game one and then improbable
come back to out the playoffs, and the pacerss the
deeper team and the Knicks didn't have enough depth and
couldn't keep up with their pace. Like, based on how
close they got, why can't you believe that Brunson gonna
be the best player on a championship team.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Because I, to be honest, I think that if anything,
they have to view this year as a missed opportunity.
That this was as wide.

Speaker 4 (01:01:04):
I agree with that. I agree with that for sure.
But the East isn't getting any better. It's only getting worse.

Speaker 2 (01:01:08):
Actually, we think that until it changes there and we
see all these teams get healthier, take leaps forward or
add talent, we're just at the start of the offseason here.
I mean that Pacers series in particular, Jaylen Bronson, if
you're that guy, he'll be that guy. And I think
he was fine. He's not like he was bad in
the series whatsoever. But Tyrs Salvern had stretches where he
outplayed him. I thought in that series that I think

(01:01:30):
that Pacers team overall, Like, it's very telling to me
that the Knicks fire Tom Thibodeaux after going to the
conference finals. I think that that speaks atle bit more
about them not reaching their ceiling as a team. I
just think Jalen Bronson, I'm an anti small guard being
the lead guy kind of guy in general.

Speaker 3 (01:01:48):
Anti small guard being the lead guy. But then you
think Tyris max can be the best player on a team.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
Well, Max, he has like defining trade like he might
be a.

Speaker 3 (01:01:55):
Small guard, will be relentlessly targeted.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
He might be the fastest player in the league who's
been top five and three point percent twice in his
five year career.

Speaker 4 (01:02:05):
And that that's awesome. But you but when you're talking
about a small guard, I think why you say that?
Correct me if I'm wrong, But to me, why you
can't be a small guard on the best team is
because defensively you're constantly targeted and you're a liability on
the floor. That still is going to exist for Tyros
Maxy and the physicality that the physicality in the playoffs is,
as we know, is so much different than than the

(01:02:25):
regular season. And Jaylen Brunson we know can handle that physicality.
He's shown a time and time again. MAXI was really
good against the Knicks in that one playoff series. But
again there's I would trust the physicality of the playoffs
more with Jylen Brunson as the guy than Tyris Maxie
is you could get physical with that guy and you
could relentlessly ball pressure him, and there's chances that he
might juggle in a playoff series.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Maxi is bigger than Brunson for starters here, and a.

Speaker 4 (01:02:49):
Bigger like he's a couple of inches taller. He's not heftier.
When you're talking about the strength of a guy Brunton
and the bumps and bruises, Brunson's definitely stronger, stronger.

Speaker 2 (01:03:00):
You're right, You're right about that, But I'm pure size wise,
like I wouldn't be surprised. How many inter do you
think Maxi has? On three or four?

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Two? I think well, Max's like sixty three, right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
That's all is Jlen Brunson?

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:03:12):
Six one is he? I mean heights.

Speaker 4 (01:03:14):
Heights are such like bs with everyone, you really have
no idea how anyone is.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
But it's not like some overwhelming height difference.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
Like I'll say this, I've stood, I've interviewed Maxi, and
he's notably bigger than me. I'm five to eleven here.
He's comfortable, comfortab When.

Speaker 4 (01:03:28):
You actually look up their heights, they both are listed
on Google, which doesn't mean much, but they're both listed
at six to two.

Speaker 2 (01:03:34):
James Bruns is not six to two.

Speaker 3 (01:03:36):
I mean I've been next to him as well.

Speaker 4 (01:03:38):
He's he's definitely around my height and I'm six to
one like he's. I mean, this is semantics at this point,
but they're not like a massive difference in height between
those two guys.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
You're right, You're right. The last thing that I'll pound
the table about. I'm telling you you'll be locked in
for this this year. But Tyre's MAXI defensively last year.
It took a massive step forward that I will pound
the table right now that he's a bove average NBA defender,
and I did not think that would ever be possible.

Speaker 3 (01:04:04):
I agree with you, definitely took a step forward. I
think it's gonna be a lot.

Speaker 4 (01:04:07):
It's gonna be on him because we talked about those
backcourts are going to be small when they played McCain
and MAXI.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
Even when it's Quentin Grimes in MAXI.

Speaker 4 (01:04:13):
So I think there's you're going You're gonna really have
to see this year on a winning team, those those
those jumps that he takes. But I do think I
do gruth. He was come, He's come a long way
as a defender and then that's what you love to
see is a defender, as a playmaker and a lot
of aspects of his games.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
He's definitely improved. I think the improvement will continue to
go there.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
I love Max, Yeah, I just I think it's a
low ridiculous when you start throwing out the Jalen brunts
and stuff. But I love Max and I think he's
an awesome player.

Speaker 2 (01:04:38):
Can I get your five worst GM destinations in the
Eastern Conference here?

Speaker 3 (01:04:43):
So I didn't. I didn't do the five worst.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
I just did my one, the one I'd least want
to take over right now, and it's the Chicago Bulls.
Yeah that, Like I don't even know what they're doing
at this point. Like when they traded Alex crucif Josh Giddy,
I understood the trade and like getting rid of Alex
Cruso just because Alex Russe went on to win a
championship and was a high of a very impactful player
for that team, doesn't mean that you shouldn't have traded him,

(01:05:08):
but you could have got a better return for him.
Like everyone knew the role player the Alex Crusoe is
he wont a championship in LA before you could have
got a better return for him the trade yesterday where
they trade Lonzo Bowl. I think Lonzo Ball is more
valuable than just getting Isaaca Koro back. Like I think
Lonzo Ball, if he can stay healthy and he was
out for what two and a half years almost, I
think he's a you could have gotten more return from.

(01:05:29):
So they're entering a rebuild. But it's also like, what
are they doing right now? And they just have not
a single piece. I like, Kobe White is a player
a lot, they don't really have a single piece i'd
be comfortabout building around for the future on that roster.
So I think this Bulls team is just in a
disastrous situation. Should be one of the worst teams in
the league this year, and I don't see them improving
over the next.

Speaker 3 (01:05:48):
Few years either.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Yeah, I do think for what it's Josh Getty was
pretty good last year. It was Yeah, he exceeded my expectations.
I just think that they're dead set and completely like
they're goal. I think of the Chicago franchise is to
just be mediocre year in the year out beat right
around that middle ground where you're selling enough tickets somewhat
in the mix, can sell a plane tournament, a game

(01:06:10):
or two and then call it a season. There that
just feels to be what they want to do. So
I think that is a fair answer there. I want
Milwaukee as my answer here that I really think the
future is dark in Milwaukee. You do have like the
ultimate reset card of whatever the Yiannis trade return is
when every want to press that button there, But I
mean they've when you just dive into some of the

(01:06:31):
moves they've made, like get like the trade for Kyle Kuzma,
where you're sending Chris Middleton in a draft, the fact
that you had to include AJ Johnson in a trade
this year, It's like there's just not anything as far
as young talent that you have to look forward to,
really very little from a draft capital perspective here. I
think there's a real chance that that organization goes into
full disaster mode. And outside of the honest trade, I

(01:06:51):
don't know what fix you have to that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:54):
Yeah, it's an interesting answer.

Speaker 4 (01:06:56):
The only thing I would respond is and the really
the only response is they still the best player in
the conference like for now, and I guess everyone's reporting
that we're going to see what he wants to do
in free or We're gonna see what the Bucks do
in free agency and how we'll respond to that. There's
not a lot they can do. They don't control their
picks for the rest of this decade. They don't have
a lot of young players as you just outlined to

(01:07:18):
build a round. So it's an interesting answer and I
definitely can get behind it. But as long as they
have Giannis, I feel like they have one of the
best players in the conference. So they're still a playoff team.
And if Giannis eventually asks out, the whole will be
pretty massive, so they'll have enough pieces to start over
and enter or rebuild with. What if he does ask out?

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
That's bear I also want to ask, and I've had
a variation of this debate for years now, how do
you think Giannis's game is going to age?

Speaker 4 (01:07:48):
It's similar to like the Brunson conversation where Brunton takes
a lot of bumps and bruises when he's getting picked
off full court you saw in the playoffs, but even
in the half court, like that's his game, like that,
He's plays with a really physical style and so there's
questions of how long will this prime be? Similar with
Jan Sane de compo. I think Giannis, he also takes
a lot of bunch of bumps and bruises when he's

(01:08:08):
going to the rim, is obviously a downhill player who
commands a lot of defensive attention. I think Giannis is
such a freak of a like just a specimen, like
how he's how shreded he is, and his height and
just all of his his physical attributes where I think
he will be able to withstand all the physicality that
he plays with and being a downhill player for longer.

Speaker 3 (01:08:28):
So I don't have too many.

Speaker 4 (01:08:29):
Concerns about it, but I could see his prime not
being like some guys like Kevin Durant or Lebron James
or Steph Curry.

Speaker 2 (01:08:35):
Even yeah, there's a part of me that really does
think like there's a chance that Giannis just falls off
a cliff at some point from a production standpoint, because
his body does take a beating man that guy, like, honestly,
while he's obviously six foot eleven strong as an oxen,
can move incredibly well around the floor, his really defining
trait is just like how hard he goes on an

(01:08:55):
every night basis that that dude, you're not gonnautwork him
on the floor, and I think that's admirable obviously had
a ton of success with it. But like, when you
think about a guy aging the later years of his career,
what will be like the bread and butter that we
can count on in Giannis's game? And I have a
hard time having like a direct answer to this. Like
one of the debates that I've had has been whose
game will age better, Joel Embiid or Yiannis? And the
thing that I find like comfaning, Well, yeah, the injuries

(01:09:19):
are obviously the trump card from the Embiid perspective, and
what ultimately weighs down that crush question. But like what
I would argue with that is the comfort that I
have that Embiid's going to be knocking down middle age
jumpers until he's sixty, that he's going to be completely
comfortable with that. I really struggle to see, like what
is the role for Giannis in the twilight years of
his career.

Speaker 4 (01:09:40):
I think it's a great point with the Embiid thing
is you know, Embiid has chronic injury issues, so it's
like we'll just never be the same player because of that.
But for Jannis, You're right, there's not that jump shot
he can rely on, and like, you can't be this
downhill player forever. And you talk about like why Kevin
Durant has a been able to come back from Achilles
injury and be as he talked to a player for

(01:10:00):
as long as he has about to turn thirty seven
because of the he's one of more efficient shooters we've
seen in NBA history. And then that three balls continue
to improve when you look at a Lebron James, who
is a downhill player a lot the last few years
with the Lakers, Lebron James has become a really good
three point shooter, not just an average and he was
a below average three point shooter for much of his career,
but he's become a really good three point shooter. So

(01:10:21):
you when you add that to your game, you don't
have to become this downhill player as much. So I
think it's a great point where Jiannis without a jump shot,
he's not going to be able to age well.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
So I do think it's a good point. I don't
think it's coming like soon.

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
I think this is more like his in his he's
not going to be playing into his late thirties, Like
we're seeing KD and Lebron do.

Speaker 3 (01:10:39):
But I do think it's a good point.

Speaker 2 (01:10:42):
Yeah, it's interesting. I have a hard time kind of
projecting how it will shake itself out, And obviously that's
a kind of gotta be something weighing on the mind
of Milwaukee as he start to navigate these waters and
figure out what the best direction is. But uh, I think.

Speaker 4 (01:10:54):
Real quick before we go before, because we're just jumping
all over before we go into the West, if you
want to do that. A couple of free agency points
I just want to hit, And the first one is
is DeAndre Ayton. And I don't know if we ever
talked about DeAndre Ayton before, but I'm curious your thoughts
on DeAndre and who was just bought out from the
Blazers a massive contract that he signed with the Blazers.
The Suns didn't want them obvious work ethic concerns, character concerns,

(01:11:18):
attitude concerns. Is this guy untouchable because a lot of
people are saying the Lakers should want them, and theoretically
at the Lakers need a center, and his talent and
his stats are good, but this guy has been a
losing player in the league for a decent amount of time.
Now ever since the Suns made the Championship, it's been
pretty much all downhill from there. And he has the talent,
but he obviously does not have the work ethic to

(01:11:40):
couple that. So where what are your thoughts on DeAndre
aiden what do you think he ends up? And should
the Lakers even want them?

Speaker 2 (01:11:46):
Yeah, there was a point in time where I was
a DeAndre Ayton guy, but I used to make the
argument he's the third best center in the NBA, and
I think from a pure talent perspective, I think you
can still make that case. But the dude is a
loser man. He just doesn't care. And some of the
low lights that I see all of the timeline right
now of him just not even trying on rebounds and
stuff like that. It's maddening. It's really frustrating to me
because I do think from pure skill set perspective, like

(01:12:08):
this guy can be one of the premier talents in
the NBA at the big man spot, but he does
not seem to have to want that desire. It makes
sense for a team to still take a chance on him.
He's still like when you look at the big man
options in the field right there. I think the Lakers
make a ton of sense from him, but I do
think like Ayton just doesn't quite have it up here
in the head the way that you need to to
be a high level athlete, the way he should be.

Speaker 4 (01:12:29):
Yeah, at this point, if I'm the Lakers, like I
just well, why bring a guy like that into your culture,
like a culture that JJ Reddick has done a good
job of creating. You can find a cheaper center, and
he's gonna be pretty cheap because the market is not
huge for DeAndre And that's why he got bought out,
because they couldn't even find a trade option for him,
because who wants this guy at this point based on
everything everyone knows about his character and his attitude. So

(01:12:52):
I don't know why you would take the chance with
him if you're the Lakers, I'd rather get a Clin Capella,
who I don't think it would even command the mid
level exception. He'd probably command like an all million or
so he is he is, but he serves the purpose.
And I don't love Clin Capella, but he serves the
purpose as a rim runner, as rim protector like Luke Cornett,
could be really cheap from the Celtics, but that he

(01:13:12):
really a starting center. He's never played starting center minutes.
He's always been a backup or a third string when
he was with the Celtics.

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
That's pretty good, man.

Speaker 3 (01:13:20):
He is I like Lukun as a player, but he's
not He's not. Yes, he's not super.

Speaker 4 (01:13:24):
Athletic as a big that that's like a lob threat
that Luca would need or should want. So I don't
know what the Lakers are gonna do at center, but
I do not think DeAndre Eaton is the move.

Speaker 2 (01:13:36):
Yeah, I mean I understand why I think they're going
to do it like that would be my prediction here
is that this has the Lakers of a that has
the makings of a Lakers signing here also the same
agent as Luca Doncic that Ayton has, Harris. I think
worth keeping that in mind as well. I don't know.
I would love for DeAndre Ayton to figure it out
and get on the right path. I think it's pretty

(01:13:57):
unlikely that that ultimately does come together at any point.

Speaker 4 (01:14:00):
Last free agent thing and then we go back to
the West to wrap up or whatever you want to do.
Was I mean, notregency free agency thing, just news from yesterday.

Speaker 3 (01:14:08):
Should we talk about the Malik Beasley situation.

Speaker 2 (01:14:10):
Oh yeah, we should hit on that there. Yeah, so
any takes you want to dive in, said the scene here.

Speaker 3 (01:14:15):
Yeah, I mean, no takes.

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
Just obviously, Malik Beasley is being investigated for gambling on games,
and back in twenty twenty one, I believe it was
or the last few seasons, there was some instances of
him gambling on games. A criminal investigation, I believe it is. Yeah, yeah,
so it's not even not even the NBA. So it's
pretty serious stuff. And you know, you should have a
presumption of innocence when you talk about this stuff, and

(01:14:37):
you're you're innocent until proven guilty. But when they's smoke here,
there's usually fire, and same thing with it when the
Johntay Porter stuff went down. So this report wouldn't come
out unless there was not just an investigation, but they're
probably pretty close to some serious findings, which is just
really sad because it happened like it's just it's it's
to gamble on games right now as an NBA player

(01:14:59):
when you're risking hens of millions of dollars.

Speaker 3 (01:15:01):
And he was in talks to resign with the Pistons.
He was a free agent, so he.

Speaker 4 (01:15:04):
Was gonna get paid tens and tens of millions of
dollars in this upcoming contract. To risk all of that
to game well, who knows, who knows how much he did,
but probably not allot In some games, it's just so
sad and stupid. I think players know now not to
do that. You're not gonna see these instances in like
last season or these upcoming seasons because they know how
much they they're putting themselves at risks at risk. This

(01:15:25):
seems like it happened a few years ago where and
there was there's some clips where you don't you know,
he's he's sprinting down the court to cover an eight
and a half points spread and a very unnecessary dunk,
and you don't know if that's on his mind.

Speaker 3 (01:15:37):
Maybe it was, Maybe it wasn't.

Speaker 4 (01:15:39):
Obviously the clips make it highly suspicious, but that doesn't
mean it's true.

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
He also, I'll note, probably uses the phrase like bet
on myself or I bet on this team like more
than any player that I've seen, a bunch of those.

Speaker 4 (01:15:52):
The guy likes to bet. The guy likes to bet.
But the problem is, like, yeah, there's funny Jokes's expense.
But all this stuff came or went, these actions by
him came before people knew the serious risks, like when
game legalized. Gambling came into fruition in like twenty eighteen,
twenty nineteen, and then it became popularized and the FanDuel

(01:16:12):
DraftKings were marketing it like crazy. These players did not.
I don't think they understood the risks, and they should have.
I'm not making excuses for them, but back in twenty
twenty one, twenty twenty two, I don't think they understood
how drastic drastic these risks would be if they were
gambling on games. And you hope it was just that
that he wasn't involved in some criminal organization when he
was throwing games or not throwing games, but you know,

(01:16:33):
trying to cover spreads for certain reasons with some I
don't know, some mob organizations, whatever it is. But now
you're not gonna see that as much last season in
this season. But it's just a sad situation because it
seems like you don't want to speculate. But if anything
comes to this, he's banned from the NBA forever. And
this was a player who had an awesome season with
the Pistons.

Speaker 3 (01:16:50):
You want.

Speaker 4 (01:16:51):
The Pistons were counting on him to be an impact
player next season. He was second in the NBA in
three pointers made behind Anthony Edwards. So this isn't like
a John Day porter Way player who's just out of
league who never played a minute anyway, it didn't really
matter as a player. This is an impactful player that
this is coming to, and just a sad, dum dumb
situation on his part.

Speaker 2 (01:17:10):
Yeah, it's a huge bummer because I really like Malik
Beasley as a basketball player there, and he was awesome
for this Piston seem all year and then those playoffs overall,
and was probably a couple of days away from signing
a huge contract here, life changing kind of money. So
really just a sad story all around. Obviously, the legalization
of sports gambling has changed everything from the industry in
a major way. Here. The thing that I would like

(01:17:32):
to make clear is I feel like whenever this happens,
this gets rushed into this is why gambling is bad,
and this is why like this shouldn't be. And I
understand the points about like the advertisements and things getting
shoved down our throat to an extent, But I think
this should be viewed as like if there was not
the attention paid to it that is currently paid by
a legislation and lawmaker standpoint here, we probably don't even

(01:17:53):
hear about this, that this all this kind of stuff
goes in the shadows and continues to fly. That there
were gambling issues before it was legalized, and there will
be regardless of the circumstances there. So as much as
like it sucks that this year even happened, I do
think it should be viewed positively that the checks and
balances are working to an extent and they were able
to figure out that there was some time follery going
on that need to be checked up on. So I

(01:18:14):
think that happened.

Speaker 4 (01:18:15):
But legalized gambling create allows these watch store organizations to
actually keep an eye on these people, and they can
still do it underground, but if they're doing it legally,
it will get flagged and will get caught. So it's
easier to get caught and that makes it a bigger risk.
And as players are seeing because it's such a big risk,
they're gonna stop doing it. So these incidents all happened
last year's like the NFL had a bunch of incidents,
they suspended all their players. Now the NBA has made

(01:18:37):
drastic punishments for those guys Johntay Porter and if it's
coming from Elie Beasley, him too. So I think guys
know like there's been education through example. So I don't
agree with the claim of this is why it's bad.
I think as it's become more prominent, you're going to
see less of these instances happen because this education through
example where you're gonna get banned, You're costing yourself tens

(01:18:58):
of million dollars' essentially room in your life by doing this.

Speaker 3 (01:19:01):
It's just not worth it.

Speaker 4 (01:19:02):
And so as long if you're not an absolute idiot,
it will stop doing it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:06):
Yeah. No, one hundred percent there. But I said, we
say the Western Conference for next week's edition of this.
We got plenty more to dive into here. So many
other final thoughts you have before we wrap up on
anything off season so far.

Speaker 4 (01:19:19):
I don't think so it's gonna be it's not that
much of a free agent cycle. Freegency is kind of
died in a lot of ways because number one, a
lot of the star players what we saw with the
Bronze decisions, Kid's decision to go to Golden Stand in
July fourth. A lot of those star players make their
minds up before freegency actually comes, with trade requests and
other things. And then the other part is that a

(01:19:42):
lot of there's been a lot of optins, a lot
of optins some of these big name free agents, even
James Harden signed a new deal with the Clippers, a
lot of options this year, so it's not a big
freegency market. And then there's not a lot of teams
that have cap space, like the Nets have a ton
of cap space, and now the Pistons will with when
they're not giving the leak Beasley this deal anymore. So
there's not a lot of teams other than those two
with cap space. So there's not some robufst free agent market.

(01:20:03):
So it's not gonna be a huge branche cycle. But
still a lot to monitor over the next couple of days.

Speaker 2 (01:20:09):
Yeah, definitely, So me and Sam we're gonna be breaking
things down from every angle. Appreciate you for hopping on
again this morning. Appreciate each and every one of you
guys for tuning in here. Make sure to keep it
locked to Fox Sports. The Gambler. We got plenty more
coming on the other side. Now, that'll do it. Do
it for this edition of picks and Roll for Me
and Sam will be back next week. Peace.

Speaker 1 (01:20:26):
The picks and Roll podcast can be found on FOXPHL.
Gambler dot com spreads totals and all the prop that's
in betweens. It's the Gambler.