Ep. 97: NFL Divisional Preview, Jalen Hurts' QB Ranking, and More - 08/11/25

Sean Barnard and Sam Oshtry pivot from the hardwood to the gridiron in this week's episode: NFL Divisional preview, Jalen Hurts' QB ranking, an unfortunate Landon Dickerson injury from the Eagles' open practice, and more.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Number one on your car radio preset hand the new
and Improved Diehard Radio w D YES and WD two
seven three D Philadelphia Ice, Fox Sports Radio The Gambler,
Picks and Roll Handicapping the Hardwood with Sixers insider Sean
Bernard and Sean Brace and a.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
Happy Monday, ladies and gentlemen. My name is Sean Bernard
here with Sam Austrey. This is another episode of Picks
and Roll. And I know we are typically your basketball
guys right here for Fox Sports The Gambler, but I
don't know if you can see that or smell that
outside right now, but it's sounded a lot like football
to me. So, Sam Ausher, before we get into it,
how we doing this fine Monday? And you ready to

(00:37):
start diving into this football waters here?

Speaker 3 (00:39):
I'm good, I'm good, I sure am. I mean, we
still Picks and Roll logo going up. So we're always
going to be the basketball podcast and the basketball guys.
But when it's football season, it's time to roll. When
October comes around, September comes around with training camps, we'll
be we'll be right there talking hoops again. But we're
gonna talk some football every Monday. Precap on the weekends.
But it's a drier time, but still a lot of

(01:00):
stuff to talk about. And I'm good. I mean, I've
been on the road. I was in Pittsburgh last week
and I'm going to Tennessee later this week. So been
all over, but it's good to be back with you.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, love to hear it, love to see the travels here.
Bouncing back from a little wedding this weekend myself, but
excited to get into the content world and it is
starting to shape up and feel like football season from
the preseason on, a little bit of weather cooling off
a little bit. I'm excited to get into it. So
a couple of different angles. We're gonna attack things today.
One of the biggest topics of conversation really nationally this

(01:31):
offseason has been about the status of Jalen Hurts. So
I want to get into that with Sam Austrey today
and have the discussion point of if you were too
directly swap Jalen Hurts on another team in the NFL,
how much better does that team get. So we're gonna
walk through that exercise there, but before we do, that
would be remiss. We did not mention the land and
Dickerson injury at last night's open practice. There could be

(01:53):
a huge hit to this Egos team at the time
of recording and could change by the time this is
being broadcast over the airwaves for Fox Sports. We do
not have an exact injury for Landon Dickerson. It certainly
did not look good him being carted off the field,
not really capable of putting any weight on that right leg. There, Sam,
any thoughts on the land and Dickerson issue and how
much of a concern is this for you in your mind?

Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, so my stream yard clear going out there, so
hopefully you got me, But yeah, it's a huge concern.
Land and Dickerson is one of the best offensive lineen
in the entire NFL, and he's a huge part where
you talking about why this offensive line is the best
offensive line in the NFL. It's him, It's Jordan Malatta,
it's Lane Johnson, it's the development of Cam Jurgens. Of course,

(02:39):
Kai Beckton was the guy last year. You got Tyler
Steen in there. Now this offensive line works so well
as a units, it's not just one individual. Yeah, Lane
Johnson is one of the best tackles of all time. Yeah,
Jordan Malata is one of the best in the league,
but it's as how they work as a unit, and
Landon Dickerson is fully a part of that. So this
would be a massive, massive loss for the Egos if
he's misses any type of significant time because this team

(03:02):
relies on winning in the trenches. That's the defensive line
getting to the quarterback and the offensive line, and it's
because of how much they relied on the running game. Yes,
Saquon's awesome. Saque at a two thousand yard rushing season,
he's probably the best running back in the NFL, but
he's a historically great running back right now at this
point of his career because he also has an historically
great offensive line that he's rushing behind. And that's same

(03:23):
with It's not just when you talk about the Eagles
rushing game, it's not just Saquon Barkley. It's the dual
threat of Jalen Hurts and of his dual threat ability
as a passer and as a runner, and then we
talk about pairing that with Saquon. When they run these
options and you don't know who the ball is going to,
that's what makes this rushing game so good. But it
all happens because of the guys up front and the
offensive line. So if Landon dickers have missed a significant time,

(03:45):
it is a massive, massive loss. When we look at
their depth chart, you got Kenyan Green behind them at
left guard. Who who might who could replace him? Nobody really
knows what he looks like because he hasn't played significant
snaps in the NFL, So this offensive line gets a
lot shakier, especial when you talk about Tyler Stein too,
where we don't exactly know how he's gonna perform. You
trust Jeff Statlin, one of the best assistant coach in

(04:07):
the entire NFL, who of course is the Eagles offensive
line coach. But you can only do so much development
at this point of the season. Mid season, so this
offensive line may not be as dominant as it's been
without Landon Dickerson.

Speaker 2 (04:19):
Yeah, no, you're absolutely right about all of that there,
and this has in many ways been the strength of
this Eagles team. That they've built through the trenches for
several years now, and that's been something that they're counting
on to continue to be the identity of this team.
You're right, we've seen Saguon Barkley without an elite offensive
line and not putting up the ridiculous stat lines that
were the case last year. Jalen Hurts the effectiveness that
he has, so obviously we were not gonna panic just

(04:41):
yet at the time of US recording this year, do
you not have the news for exactly what Landon Dickerson's
injury is, but sending some prayers, sending some well wishes
and hopefully it is not bad as initially hope. Now
to dive into the guy behind him lining up under
center are a little bit to the side of him,
there is Jalen Hurts here, and the conversation that I
want to get in too is the direct thought process

(05:01):
of if you were to swap quarterbacks, put Jalen Hurds
on this same roster, with the same coaching staff, same
players around him, how much better does that team get. Now,
there's a couple of these that I want to start
with that I don't think we'll have much debate over.
Then we'll get into the weeds as some of these teams.
So if Jalen Hurts was on this roster, would this
make them a contender? So, Sam, I'm gonna throw these
your direction. We can have our back and forth. I

(05:23):
think we'll start off pretty easy here. No objections in
your mind to any of these teams that if Jalen
Hurds were to swap for their current quarterback position, it
would make them a better football team. So let me
rattle off a couple here, the New Orleans Saints, the
Cleveland Browns, the New York Jets, the Tennessee Titans, the
Carolina Panthers, the New York Giants, and the Indianapolis Colts.

(05:43):
Any objections to any of those teams.

Speaker 3 (05:46):
I don't know. Did you see centers in the preseason? Yeah,
he might be the next Brady based on everyone's reaction
to a preseason game to a couple of nice those
in there, and he played well. But yeah, obviously there's
there's no question you'd rather have hurts over any of
those quarterback situations.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, when you have four quarterbacks, you have zero quarterbacks.
As I believe this saying out there in Cleveland right now.
I can see a couple Jets fans give me a
little little bit of slack if you're a huge justin
fields believer. But even a guy who is a fields
guy myself, I don't think we can have anything And.

Speaker 3 (06:15):
That would just be absurd. There's no rationale you could
find to justify having Justin Fields on your team over
Jalen Hurts.

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Yeah, I don't think we can quite have those conversations
at all. So I'll move up the ladder a little
bit of NFL teams where we're starting to get into
a little bit of muddy waters here, Las Vegas Raiders,
Miami Dolphins, Seattle Seahawks, New England Patriots, and Arizona Cardinals.
Any objections to those teams?

Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yeah, No, I think Gino Smith would be an interesting
one that I think a lot of people who are
Hurts discounters would try to argue that Gino Smith in
that in the Eagle situation. We've seen some great years
from Gino Smith the last few years where he's been
in good situations. So if he was in the Eagle situation,
he could put up the production and maybe have the
close to a win percentage that Jalen Hurt says. I

(06:59):
don't see it that way. I think Jalen Hurts just
a much better quarterback, especially what he brings as a
rusher that Gino Smith just doesn't have. And then you
look at other teams like the Falcons, Michael Pennix Junior.
We'll see, like, we'll see which are you selling him?
We obviously have to see a full season of him
to what you can never You couldn't make that argument
at all. You said the Jaguars in there too, right.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
I would skipped them because I was going to single
them out. But we can bring them up right now.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
Oh okay, okay, So I was just looking at the
odds here, So yeah, I would easily say I'd rather
have Hurts over Trevor Lawrence. But I want to hear
your thoughts.

Speaker 2 (07:33):
Yeah, so I agree. I think there are some Geno
Smith fans out here. The point that I would make
in one of the things that I think like heavily
plays into Jalen Hurt's favor and something that I value
him as a talent as we just know exactly who
he is as a football player. Man, he's just going
to do Jalen Hurts things. To compare that with a
guy like Geno Smith, there's been a wide range of
what Gino Smith has looked like at the NFL level

(07:53):
that we've seen. This guy in recent years look pretty
impressive as like a pocket passer, gunslinger type quarterback. We've
also seen stretches of the turnover issues have been really
significant that he obviously has not held a job at
any specific franchise for a long term there. I like
Gino Smith. I think you can do far worse than
him as a quarterback from a franchise perspective. But I
don't think there's any conversation about Jalen Hurts now. The

(08:14):
Jacksonville Jaguars conversation I do think is interesting here. I'm
not a Trevor Lawrence guy. I think, to be honest,
the conversations about him are not as negative as they
deserve to be. That I think there's been some legitimate regression,
particularly what we saw last year. The footwork that he
showed and the sort of panic in the pocket that
really became a consistent problem is just not what you
should be seeing from a guy that is this hailed

(08:35):
number one prodigy type prospect here and the guy who's
been in the league for several seasons here. I was
really concerned with the version of Trevor Lawrence that we
saw last year. There was a stretch where it looked
like this guy had figured it out a little bit,
got back on the right track. I don't feel that
way currently about his outlook in the league, and I
have him sort of circled as I think he had
some real questions to answer this year. So no, I

(08:56):
do not believe he deserves being Jalen Hurts conversations.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
I think everyone has fallen in love with the idea
of Trevor Lawrence and what he was is a procat
and actually who Trevor Lawrence is. And yeah, he has
all the tangibles that you could won like obviously huge arm,
he's a big guy. He's great mechanics in the pocket
that people I think really really like. But the production

(09:21):
just hasn't been there, and a lot of people want
to make the excuses for him, which I don't, which
is why I don't think he's received the criticism is
that he's dealt with some disastrous situations there. Of course,
he's that he had Urban Meyer for a year which
wasn't good. People blame his development or his lack of
development on Doug Peterson. They had the one good season
where they made the playoffs, one won a playoff game,
but again Doug Peterson probably wasn't the right guy for development.

(09:42):
Now he's on to his third head coach and how
many years? What is he four or five years in
the league. At this point, he's on his third head coach,
So that there is some legitimate excuses you can make
that I would that I wouldn't even say or excuses.
I think they're legitimate reasons why maybe his development hasn't
progre asked the way everyone thought it was when he
was the shurfire and number one pick and considered one

(10:03):
of the best prospects in decades when he was coming
out of Clemson. But when you talk about the Hurts argument,
here's what I would say to Hurts. Hurts has had
a different play caller every single season in his career.
So yeah, he hasn't had the instability in the organization
because the Eagles are a great class organized, class a
organization in the NFL, and for the most part, he's

(10:24):
had Nick ci ran Is his coach since he took
over as the full time starter. But he's had a
different play caller and that matters, like that's learning new offenses,
that's learning a new system in a lot of ways,
and that's just getting on the same page as the
guy who's gonna be calling your plays and a different
play caller every single season is not something to bulk
at like that. That's a pretty huge deal. And people
kind of discount that because, oh, he's just one, regardless

(10:46):
of it. He's one, regardless of that. But people make
that as an excuse for Trevor Lawrence, Like, all right,
Trevor Lawrence has dealt with different coaches and then he's
had to learn new systems and all that. Jalen Hurts
has has had to in a way too. And I'm
not comparing everything about them, because of course, the Eagles
have done a great job surround Jhonen Hurts with unbelievable
talent on both sides of the ball. I mean, they're
one of the best organizations, the best organization the NFL

(11:08):
for a reason. Well, the Jags haven't done that. But
I don't want to hear those excuses for Trevor Lawrence
when you're comparing them to Jaln Hurts, because Jaleen Hurts
has dealt with a lot of the same things.

Speaker 2 (11:16):
Yeah, I'm glad you brought that up, And I think
that is a really important point that gets lost and
the Jalen Hurts discourse all too often there and just
to sort of reflect on what Trevor Lawrence has done
to this point. Really struggled as a rookie. The team
went three and fourteen when in games that he played
as a QB record there through just twelve touchdowns all
season three, six hundred and forty one yards and led
the NFL, and seventeen interceptions. Then flash forward to his

(11:38):
second season, which is when he put things together a
little bit, played all seventeen games, went nine to eight
through for four one and thirteen yards, twenty five touchdowns
to eight interceptions, earned a Pro Bowl opportunity there. Then
in season three, the wheels start to fall off once again.
Still decent numbers as far as the yardage over four
thousand yards, twenty one touchdowns, but fourteen interceptions. Once again

(12:00):
a little bit of dip in the yards per game there.
And then last year he played just ten games, the
Jaguars were two and eight. In those games, just two
and forty five yards, which comes out to a career
where it's two hundred and four point five yards per
game there, eleven touchdowns and seven interceptions. I do think
there was some regression in his decision making. Once again,
I would just pay just express a cautionary tale for

(12:23):
the outlook for Trevor Lawrence. And as you mentioned, he
was hyped up as this camp Miss prospect, this is
the next potential face of the NFL. I do not
want that to get lost in the conversation that if
he settles in to be like a fine NFL quarterback,
that's sort of an underwhelming outcome for Trevor Lawrence.

Speaker 3 (12:39):
I would say, I think there's such few quarterbacks in
the NFL who are situation proof. And what I mean
by that is, no matter matter how talented you are,
you have to go to a great situation in the
NFL to sixty and you could have a lot less
talent and maybe a worse prospect, but be in a
great situation like you look at bo Nicks, who I
really like as a quarterback, but he went to Sean Payton,

(13:01):
one of the best offensive masterminds of this generation as
a coach, and that really helped us development. If bo
Nix was in a situation like Jacksonville or in a
situation I don't know, Cleveland or something where it's just
not great quarterback development, not great organizations where they're surrounding
you with the necessary parts that you need for your development.
It's a completely different story with him and a lot

(13:21):
of other guys. So I think there's very few quarterbacks
who are situation proof. I mean maybe like Josh Allen,
Patrick Mahomes, like Joe Burrow, those guys are so exceptional
as quarterbacks that their situation with I don't think Jale
Hurts necessarily is. I think if Jale Hurts went to
a really bad situation and bad organization, we'd be looking
at his career a lot differently. So I think Trevor

(13:42):
Lawrence fits that bucket where he's really talented and a
lot of people thought he might be situation proof, but
he's not, and he needs a really good situation. The
Jaguars have been a bad franchise and the bad job
surrounding him with necessary parts and then includes their coaches.
But it's really narrow never for him. I mean, they
gave him a massive contract because they had to. Like
a quarterback that talented, shows at least signs of being
a really good quarterback gets that contract after a few

(14:04):
years in the league. But now it's time for time
for Trevor Lawrence to show that he you can win
with him and he can be a franchise level quarterback
because Liam Cohen's coming in and he has a long leash,
lean cover. Liam Cohen, this is the guy who's gonna
be fired after one or two seasons. The Jaguars trust
him to take over this offense and to really develop
Trevor Lawrence into the quarterback everyone thought he would be

(14:25):
coming out of the draft. So I think it's now
or never for Trevor Lawrence and Liam Cohen, and I
think those guys are gonna have a pretty decent year
because I still trust the talent even if the situation
in the career thus far hasn't gone the way everyone
expected it to.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, you got Brian Thomas Junior, you got Travis Hunter.
It is now time to show out and put up
some numbers for Trevor Lawrence. So we'll keep it rolling here.
To bring it back to the question that if you
were to just replace this team starting quarterback with Jalen Hurts,
how much better do these teams get? So are any
of these do you object to being upgrades? As we
cruise onto the New England Patriots, the Arizona Cardinals, the

(15:00):
Dallas Cowboys, and the Chicago Bears, any objections to those four.

Speaker 3 (15:04):
No, not this year, because I think the question, if
I'm correct, is really just this season, going to this season,
Who would rather after your team? Yeah, for sure, Jalen Hurts.
I do think there's an argument that you can make
in a couple of years where rejecting the next ten
years Caleb Williams or Drake may maybe with those teams
that you'd rather have those guys right now the answers
Jaleen Hurts, No question.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Where's your panic meter on Caleb Williams after one year?

Speaker 3 (15:27):
It's not very high. I think again, he was a
guy who people thought would be situation proof. He was
a guy who's number one pick, who people thought was
just unbelievable talent, and he showed again he's not situation proof,
and such a few crop of quarterbacks actually are situation proof.
And he went to a really bad situation an awful
coach who was a lame duck coach everyone knew who

(15:49):
was getting fired after the season. Spaar should have done
it a year earlier because it really hindered Caleb Williams development.
But I also thought how bad he was was greatly exaggerated.
I mean, he wasn't good especially when you look at
some the rookies like Jynon Daniels. But he finished the
season pretty well. I thought he was pretty average. He
wasn't some disastrous quarterback. They shore up the offensive line
a little bit because he was running for his life

(16:09):
last year, got him a couple more weapons. I think
this is a huge year for Kayleb Williams, but the
panic meter is pretty low at this point.

Speaker 2 (16:16):
Yeah, I'm not the number one Caleb Williams guy in
the world, but the thing that I really respected about
him last year is just the way that he got
up every single time that he really got beat up
throughout the entire season, and he just picked himself up
went on to the next play. There's obviously a lot
of changes that need to be made to shore up
that offensive line, to have a little bit more of
a concrete game plan so it doesn't look like he's
just running for his life in the way that was

(16:37):
a weekly issue last year. But I mean, I don't
think anything from last year should really change how you
view the kid. And we'll see how he bounces back.
But a great big season for Caleb Williams upcoming here.
Now here's where we get into the weeds a little
bit here for starters Pittsburgh Steelers. Don't think there's any
conversations about that. I think Jalen Hurts would be a
clear upgrade there. The Houston Texans, I think is an

(16:59):
interesting one. DJ Stroud is a guy who burst onto
the scene, sort of had like a Jayden and Daniels
type of rookie season where it was about as ideal
as you could hope for earn a Rookie of the Year,
take your team to the playoffs that he's hyped in
these early conversations for this is one of the top
quarterbacks in the league and really sort of took a
step back last year. The old sophomore slop did hit
him pretty hard there with c J. Stroud, and he

(17:21):
finds himself in sort of an interesting conversation with where
these QB rankings are. So my question to you, Sam Ashre,
if you were to replace c. J. Stroud with Jalen
Hurts directly, here are the Houston Texas a better football team.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
It's tough. It's a tough question. Here's what I'll say,
The Eagles are worse for football team. I'll flip it
the other way. If you put c J. Stroud on
that team instead of Jalen Hurts the Eagles or a
worse football team. Now, do I think Jalen Hurts will
make the Texans better? I'm not entirely convinced. Again, that
goes back to the point that Jaleen Hurts is in
an unbelievably unbelievable situation, not just for any quarterback, but

(17:56):
really for his skill set. So that's really tough answer
the broader question, who would I rather have right now,
Jalen Hurts or CJ. S Droud? To me, the answers
Jalen Hurts because we have to see with CJ's how
he responds to a pretty poor sophomore season. I mean,
you said it was a pretty historic rookie year that
he had, bringing his team to playoffs, winning a playoff game,
and then his interceptions go from five to twelve from

(18:17):
year one to year two. His quarterback rating in year
one was one hundred, went to eighty seven in year two.
All of his statistical his entire statistical profile diminished in
year two. But I think that's also natural and normal
for a lot of second year quarterbacks. And I've said
this a lot throughout this NFL offseason. As we talk
about the rookies of last year and the rookies of

(18:38):
this year, it's really hard to scout a guy mid
season and figure out his weaknesses and tendencies from week
to week and as NFL teams are game planning. But here,
coaches talk about this all the time from year one
to year two, and you have full off season of
scouting a guy and trying to expose his weaknesses. Especially
if you're in the division and you're constantly playing them
twice a year, it's much easier for coaches to kind

(19:01):
of expose those weaknesses. So I think you see sophomore
slumps frequently with those guys because of a full off
season of scouting that coaches had, And I don't think
that's something that should be discounted. I think that's something
we might see from Jay and Daniels this year, and
I think that's something what we saw from CDs Drout
last year. I think c just Droft is still a
great quarterback. The talent's there. He's going to be a
top ten quarterback in this league for the next few years,

(19:22):
but this is a really important year for him to
see that. All right, what are these things that all
these teams scouted and exposed about me, And he dealt
with some injuries wide receiver, and he didn't have as
good weapons as he did for his first year. But
still he has to make a bigger jump in year three,
and I think it's a really important year for him.
But for now, I'm still going with the Super Bowl
MVP because he's a Super Bowl mvpit.

Speaker 1 (19:45):
Philly's home for all things sports gambling.

Speaker 2 (19:48):
And we're back with the audio here. But of course I.

Speaker 3 (19:50):
Didn't know if that was just me. I was like,
was that what I could because my computer has been
bugging out this entire time in streamer, so I was like,
I can't hear him? Is that me? Though?

Speaker 2 (19:58):
That's why I we're fighting through today. Yeah. I do
think that there is a little bit of grace I
give him for the injury, just defined Niggs, Tank Dell
getting hurt, even Nico Collins, I believe missed a game
or two here or there, So not the easiest pathway
for him. I'm buying the CJ. Stroudstock this year. With
that said, I do not think he surpasses Jalen Hurts
by any means. Now, one of the bigger topics of
conversation in these is the Los Angeles Chargers. And this

(20:20):
is probably the biggest gap of any matchup that I
think we've mentioned to this point. But if Jalen Hurts
is on the Los Angeles Chargers, how much does their
outlook change as a team, sam Ostri.

Speaker 3 (20:33):
Not that much, Like not that much, because what Jim
Harbaugh did last year for Justin Herbert was take the
ball of his hands less. I think his average pass
attempts per game went from thirty five to twenty nine.
That's taking the ball of his hands less. And that's
their offensive coordinator who did a much better job of
just it was Greg roman System, of course, who came

(20:55):
from the Ravens. He did a much better job of
dominating the run game and using that offensive line in
on the run game and then using Justin Herbert less.
And that's kind of how the Eagles approach using Jalen Hurts,
where Jalen Hurts also a threat as a runner, much
bigger threat than Justin Herbert, but they rely on their
great run game in the great offensive line to carry
that offense and to move the chains. And that's what

(21:17):
they did last year. All the way to a super
Bowl with an historic season from stake one Barkley, I
think the Chargers have a similar approach. So when you
put just Jalen Hurts on that Chargers team, he would
be just as good, probably better because the better passer
than Justin Herbert in my mind, but and more accurate
and better decision maker and all those things. But it's

(21:37):
kind of a similar offense where you don't want the
quarterback doing too much. You want to rely on your
run game.

Speaker 2 (21:41):
Yeah, I think it's a bigger difference than we're making that.
But I think if you were just Shocker Shocking directly
swap Jalen Hurts with Justin Herbert, I think there's a
real chance to Chargers have a Super Bowl right now.
I think that team is good, man, I think that
team is legitimately good. That defense, especially last year. I'm
sick of Keenan Allen and Mike Williams getting talked about
like their scrubs the air good wide receiver that Justin

(22:02):
Herbert played alongside for years that he was unable to
maximize there and just giving the guy the ball with
the game on the line, you're gonna get some drastically
different results with Jalen hurdis being that guy over Justin
Herbert here. So I do think that there's a real
chance that if you just directly swap Herbert and Hurts,
there's a real chance that the Chargers have a Super
Bowl ring on their finger. At the minimum. I think

(22:23):
they're in that same conversation of the Josh Allen, the
Lamar Jackson, if you got there, but have you slayed
the beast? And if we're gonna go down the track record,
I've seen Jalen Hurds go toe to toe and out
play Patrick Mahomes in two out of two Super Bowls
to this point, so I do not think he would
blink at that match up there. I think that is
something that Chargers fans, no matter what they want to say,
that in their heart of Hurts certainly, which should do

(22:43):
feel that way at the end of the day as well.

Speaker 3 (22:46):
I do think it's important not to discount the intangibles
that Jalen Hurts has over most of, if not all,
of the quarterbacks in the league, which is his mental
makeup in big moments, and what we've seen in two
Super Bowls now where he was incredible, and what we've
seen throughout all of his playoff games and in big
time moments where he steps up and that's his clutch factor,
that's his mindset that a lot of other quarterbacks don't

(23:08):
necessarily have at his level. But again, like Justin Herbert
has twenty one thousand career passing yards in five seasons,
as the most in NFL history through five seasons. Like,
I think he's another guy where people love the idea
of him, so he's overrated. He's overrated to the extent
because everyone loves the idea of the talent he can be.
But he's also been real highly productive, and I think

(23:31):
it's better when the balls out of his hands and
you're relying when you run game more. But he's also
been highly productive. He has fifteen game winning drives. Fifteen
game winning drives in five seasons, Like, that's really impressive stuff.
And so the playoffs numbers aren't there. So I would
never take him over Hurts because just the of his
playoff performances where it hurts elevates his game in the
playoffs and.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Not there is quite the understatement here for the.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Yeah, well, well it hurts elevates his game in the playoffs,
and Justin Herbert does the exact opposite of that, which
is a fair critique of him, and I think why
a lot of people rank him lower than maybe what
his production during the regular season would say it that
he should be ranked. But again, fifteen game winning drives
in five seasons is nothing is pretty significant, and then

(24:14):
that's pretty impressive from him from a clutch standpoint, but
the playoffs numbers aren't there. So yeah, I'm taking Jalen Hurts.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, last time we saw Justin Herbert on a playoff field,
he was throwing four interceptions against a pretty mediocre Texans defense.
I might add there, but nonetheless we'll keep it moving
with that. I've stood ten toes down on that take
for quite some time and still feel that way. I
think it's kind of crazy the Chargers are carrying two
quarterbacks better than their starter on their current roster.

Speaker 3 (24:40):
With Trey texting me Trey Lance is better. And I
said to you, if Shanahan couldn't unlock Trey Lance, then
nobody can unlock that. Brother.

Speaker 2 (24:46):
I don't know, man, you watched Trey Lance at all,
and yesterday's preseason game he was looking on pretty intriguing
to me.

Speaker 3 (24:52):
I'll say that preseason football.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Yeah, yeah, I'm fired off, sam oshtri but we'll keep
it rolling here. This one was closer than I think
I I initially thought it would be the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
If you were to direct the swap Baker Mayfield and
Jalen Hurts. Are the Buccaneers a better football team?

Speaker 3 (25:11):
No, I'm torn, Actually I'm torn.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yeah, this one was in my head, like I was
kind of going through the teams that I didn't think
would be a problem, and I got to the Buccaneers
and I was like, I don't know. And the case.
The reason that I say this is because it does
feel like Baker is such a gunslinger. That's just kind
of his mentality as a quarterback. And that's basically how
that offense is designed. Is they're gonna air it out,
they're gonna rely on their weapons. They're gonna allow Baker
to go up and throw for three hundred yards on

(25:36):
a pretty consistent basis. Here, that's pretty different than how
Jalen Hurts functions as a quarterback, so that he is
more systematic, more being more I guess, a sure thing,
a safe thing in the decision making process. It works
for Tampa Bay and Baker has been very much to
the epicenter of that. It's been cool to have him
see him have a career resurgence here. I think stylistically
this would be sort of a tough clash to compare.

Speaker 3 (25:57):
Yeah, it's a tough question when you compare Hurts and
some of these quarterbacks because the system is everything, and
you kind of create your offensive system around your quarterback.
And that's what the Eagles have done by bringing in
a great rusher and take one Barkley on a great
offensive line. He had the weapons. But again, like if
if he was on the Bucks, the Bucks wouldn't have
this approach where they would be throwing the ball thirty
five to forty times a game because that's not how

(26:19):
Jalen Hurts operate. So you kind of have to create
your system around your quarterback, and the Bucks have done
a really good job of that, as have the Eagles,
but they're completely different quarterbacks. People forget that. The Bucks defense,
they're known as their this defensive group because of their
head coach, but their defense was pretty average last year.
It was their offense that carried them to a great season.
That's because Baker Mayfield, as you said, he was a gunslinger.

(26:39):
They threw the ball a ton last year, and he
was really really productive as a passer. So if Hurts
is in that offense, he wouldn't have been as productive.
His interceptions to probably higher, his completion rate would be
way lower if you had to throw the ball that much,
but they wouldn't. They wouldn't be throwing the ball as
much with Jalen Hurts. And you flip it and you go,
you put the Baker Mayfit on. The Eagles come in

(27:00):
for it. I don't know how he'd operate as a
guy who doesn't need to throw the ball that much.
He has as a low volume passer, which Jalen Hurts
was last year. So it's a difficult question. I think
Baker Mayfield was a more talented passer, but that doesn't
mean he's a better quarterback necessarily. So it's really situation
dependent when you look at these two teams who play
completely different offenses. But Baker Mayfield on a tremendous year

(27:20):
last year, Like, I don't want anyone to discount that
because he was incredible, and that was their offense that
carried them to a great season, not their defense, which
was pretty average.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yeah, No one hundred percent there. I think I ultimately
just slightly lean on yes that I think the Buccaneers
get a little bit better. But I do sort of
think this is like a lose lose situation for both
teams who we're were to have this discussion, and I
think both guys are in their rightful spot here. The
twenty twenty three season by Jalen Hurts where he did
play like an MVP candidate was when I kind of
can convince myself that you can make a case this,

(27:51):
But I don't think Tampa Bay would take this spot
for a one season standpoint or outlook there, So it's
sort of an interesting talking point. These two I think
are bit easier, and I'm sort of climbing up the
list of odds that he's coming off DraftKings Sportsbook here
don't kind of confuse why they're just high on this list,
but the Denver Broncos and Minnesota Vikings. While it would be
a blast to me to see Jalen Hurdson see Jalen

(28:12):
Harrison a Kevin O'Connell's system, I don't think there's much
room for discussion that he would be a massive upgrade
over either Bo Knicks or j J McCarthy.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, at this point in bo Nix's career, you got
to see more than the dipping dunk that he did.
And I think again, I think bo Nicks is gonna
be a great quarterback. I'm a big fan of his.
But the Broncos put him in a great situation where
they just got the ball out of his hands early,
really short easy reads, and he just didn't move the
ball down the field. So you got to see and
that's credit to Sean pay and end Bonnicks, but you

(28:39):
want to see more of his development in terms of
throwing the ball down the field this coming season. So
I think Bick is gonna be a really good quarterback
in this league for a long time. He can win
a Super Bowl with him eventually. But he's not better
than Jalen Hurts right now. You're not taking him over
Jalen Hurts and JJ McCarthy I'm not a fan of
I don't even think Kevin O'Connell is capable of unlocking him.
And even if it was Sam Darnold's till I would

(29:00):
say you're taking Jalen Hurts over Sam dorn Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
Not a JJ McCarthy guy either, personally here, if I
had ask you right now how much older is Jalen
Hurts from Bonix, what would your prediction be?

Speaker 3 (29:11):
Well, Bonix did good sixty years in college, being Auburn
and Oregon, So what's Jaleen Hurts.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Twenty six, just turned twenty seven.

Speaker 3 (29:21):
So Bonicks probably at least twenty five twenty six.

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah, he's eighteen. Jalen Hurts is eighteen months older than
bon Knicks there.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
So and four more years in the league. So that's
what it's about.

Speaker 2 (29:31):
Yeah, And I just like to bring it up as
sort of the bonus conversation for like, this is probably
who he is. This is not sort of a young
guy who's going to go through the growing pains. Every
guy has a little bit of a different path. JJ
McCarthy guy who's pretty experienced and seasoned as well. Bonix
may be exactly who he is now. He had an impression.

Speaker 3 (29:48):
Yeah, I don't I don't agree with that. Mark Henry
said that to me on Saturday too, and I just
don't agree with it. I think when you play as
much college as he did, you're going to have an
immediate impact in the NFL, and there's not as much
of a learning in the NFL when you play as
many college games as he did, so I think that's
why you saw him be good immediately and carry his
team to the playoffs. But I also don't think this

(30:09):
is his ceiling. Like I think his ceiling is he
can can continue to develop as a down field passer,
he has a great arm, and I just I don't
think this is a ceiling at all. I really think
Bonnicks can become a quarterback you can win a super
Bowl with and like a top twelve to fifteen, ten
to fifteen guy in the league league eventually, So I

(30:29):
don't think this is a ceiling at all. I think
I think the bonex that we saw his rookie season
is honestly his floor, and his ceiling might not be
that much higher than his floor, but still it's there
is a higher ceiling for Bonicks.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree with that. I'm certain he
will have better seasons that he did last year that
I think will settle and find his footing. But I
guess my take care is I don't expect this guy
to take that leap into like the truly elite quarterback
story that I sort of would hold out hope for
when I'm taking a first round guy and you know,
a guy like in Bnickx's situation now to keep it rowan,

(31:01):
This one, I think is the first l that I
will accept in the Jalen Hurts conversation the Cincinnati Bengals.
If you were to replace Joe Burrow and Jalen Hurts,
are the Bengals a better team?

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Of course, no question. He's one of those very few
quarterbacks and I think there's actually four of them, and
everyone knows that the top tier in the NFL, Lamar Jackson,
Joe Burrow, Josh Allen, and Patrick Mahomes. Where those guys
are situation proved. It doesn't matter the situation you put
them on, the weapons you have, the offense you're running,
those guys are going to perform at a really high level.
And Joe Burrow has just been given an awful defense.

(31:33):
I mean, his offense was incredible last year and they
started winning games late in the season. Was too little,
too late. But it's not a great organization and it's
not it's an awful defense. It was last year. We'll
see how what it improve this year. But Joe Burrow
still performed like one of the best quarterbacks in the league.
So yeah, Joe Burry, you put him on any situation,
any team, He's better than Jalen Hurts, and he's a

(31:54):
guy you can win a super Bowl with or contend
for a super Bowl immediately.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yep, I do fully agree with that that. I do
think Burrow does fall into that category. And even when
last year it was ultimately viewed as a disappointment as
they did not qualify for the playoffs and obviously their
record not being what they hoped it was, I did
nothing but gain more respect for him as a talent
and a football player for the way that he was
able to carry that roster in such an impressive way.
So shout out to Joe Burrow and I if I

(32:18):
had to bet right now, I would guess he comes
out pretty hungry this year for some results early on.
Another guy to bring in the mix the Los Angeles Rams,
which is another conversation that I think is a bit
more difficult than I expected to be. Matt Stafford getting old,
getting up there in age. I think in a one
game sample size of many situations that Matt Stafford can
still play with the best in the NFL. We'll see
how much his body has left in the tank. There

(32:40):
are some questions even about his availability for the start
of this season, But if we are to give him
the benefit of the doubt from a health perspective, do
you think the Rams would swap Jalen Hurts and Matt
Stafford and Matt Stafford and be a better football team.

Speaker 3 (32:53):
I don't think they would. I think Sean McVay would
prefer Matt Stafford similar to the Baker Mayfield situation, where
they rely on Matt Stafford to sling the ball a
ton and Jalen Hurts is better as a low volume
passer with a great running game, and that's not the
Sean McVay offense necessarily, at least with Matt Stafford. And
I think Matt Stafford is similar to Bake Mayford. We
just a gunslinger and his accuracy and it decision making.

(33:13):
It's just better than Jalen Hurts as a passer. So
when you look at the entirety of the quarterback position,
I'm not necessarily saying Matt Stafford is better right now
than Jalen Hurts, But I don't think the Rams would
rather have Jalen Hurts over Matt Stafford. I think Sean
McVay would prefer Matt Stafford. There is the question of health.
If you're factoring that in. Jalen Hurts young, and he's
had a few injuries here and there, has missed some

(33:34):
some games notout the regular season, but he's been largely
healthy for the most part. Matt Stafford has not been
and now he has a back injury. He's supposed to
be back up practice today get really supposed to be
his first practices this week since training camp open. But again,
a back injury is nothing to mess around with the
quarterback at his age. So the health thing is really
the only concern. But if you're not factoring that in
strictly from play style standpoint, I think Sean McVay would

(33:56):
much rather prefer Matt Stafford with the Rams than he
would Jalen Hurts with the Rams. And again, the Rams
were really good last year. I mean, they finished the
season as one of the best teams in the NFL.
They were the only team that gave the Eagles any
trouble throughout the entire playoffs. Really last like three months
of the season, you could say when Jalen Hurts was
the starter, the Rams were the only team that gave

(34:17):
the Eagles serious troubling. It was a different games, it
was a snow game and all that, but still the
Rams easily could have won that game and the only
team to compete with an Eagles team that was just
on an absolute train wreck dominating the entire NFL. So
this Rams team is really good and that's with Matt
Stafford a quarterback. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:33):
No, I totally agree with all that, and the other
point that I'll just throw I guess point of concern
I have from an injury outlook standpoint. It did raise
some red flags to me the fact that the Rams
seemed legitimately open to if Matt Stafford moves on this offseason,
it's not going to be the end of the world.
Here That there was some of it being directly tied
back contract and the dollar figure and all of that,
but the fact that it wasn't as locked on this
is our guy, We're going to do everything possible to

(34:55):
keep him did raise a couple of eyebrows in my
mind there. But I do ultimately agree with your premise
here that I don't think McVay would do that as
an upgrade. And Matt Stafford, even at his age, even
with the injury concern and a one game sample size,
can look like the best quarterback in the league if
you catch him at the right time. So shout out
to Stafford. I do think that falls in the same
sort of Baker Mayfield category here. The Green Bay Packers

(35:15):
are next, and I don't think this is a close one.
I think Jalen Hurts is comfortably better than Jordan Love.
Am I wrong there?

Speaker 3 (35:21):
No, You're not wrong, But I don't think it's a
massive gap like I think Jordan Love. I think in
a year from now you could be having the conversation
Jordan Love is a better quarterback, certainly in three years
from now, certainly if talking about who would you want
for the next decade. I think Jordan Love is still
a really good quarterback. I think he dealt with an
injury against the Eagles actually in Week one last year
that really hampered his rushing ability throughout the entire season,

(35:44):
and Jorden Love is similar where he needs to rely
on his legs as much as his arm. Like Jalen Hurts.
He couldn't rely on his legs at all last year
after that injury and Week won he missed a few
games and then he came back probably early, just to
battle it out, and he was still hurt and was
very obvious, and he started playing good football at the
end of the year. But I just thought that was
that was an injury ravage season for Jordan Love and
it wasn't the best situation for him. I think you're

(36:06):
gonna see an awesome year from Jordan Love this year.
I think Matt Golden is going to be an im
media impact by receiver from Texas or they drafted in
the first round. That's gonna help him even more so.
I think in a year from that. Right now, I'm
taking Jone Hurts. He gets the benefit of doubt. He's
a Super Bowl MVP. But in a year and two
years from now, I don't think it'll be a question
that Jordan Love is on most rankings ahead of Jalen Hurts.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Wow, that's interesting. I would kno go that far with that.
I think Jordan Love is fine. Like I don't think
he's a bad quarterback. I think he can win with
him and I do think he's like a top ten
quarterback in the league there. But I would put him
like a tier below, maybe even two tiers below Jalen
Hurts at least right now, and I don't love the
spot that Green Bay has put him in, Like all
this investment in the wide receivers. These are a bunch
of like talented guys that, like are would be good

(36:49):
on any football team. But from the Jaden Reads to
don Tavius Wicks and you go down like the list,
they're all sort of just guys to me. They're all
like I prefer a system when you have a clear
number one, And maybe the addition to Matthew Golden helps
things sort of settle itself out, but in general they've
sort of leaned on like this like jack of all trades,
master of non type of mentality from their wide receivers,

(37:10):
with a lot of guys with overlapping skill sets, which
I haven't loved from a mentality standpoint there. But you
are right about the injury. I forgot about how much
that was impactful last year, and that happened right in
Week one, so who knows, We'll see what this looks like.
I think I would for Jordan Love in the conversation
of an important year for a quarterback this season as well,

(37:31):
all right, and we'll keep it moving. I believe sam
Ostris still go ahead. You got me, yep, cutting it
out a little bit, but I got you.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Would have a lag here. So I think Jordan Love
as a rusher is gonna be much through this year.
But yeah, we can keep it moving.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
Mm hmm. The San Francisco forty nine Ers, I think
this might be like the top of the list of
teams that would be itching to make this move to
be perfect honest. Now, granted, I gained some respect for
brock Party last year, and how did he look like?
I think Jalen Hurts on the San Francisco forty nine
Ers is a Super Bowl contender this year. I do
not think that is the current case with the current
forty nine Ers roster.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
Yeah, I don't think there's a question. I mean, you're
talking about Brock Party or Jalen Hurts. I think the
answer is pretty obvious. I think most quarterbacks could excel
in Kyle Shannon's system, except obviously Trey Lance, But I
think most quarterbacks could And I think Jalen Hurts and
Kyle Shannan will just hit his his system. He'll work
make sure his system works for whoever the quarterback is,

(38:37):
because he's that much of a genius offensively, it's not
even a question. Jalen Hurts is obviously you're taking him
over Brockfort.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Yeah. I think that is a pretty universal opinion there Again,
I do think Jalen Hurts on the San Francisco forty
nine Ers would be a Super Bowl contender of this
specific season. So we'll keep it rolling. This is one
that I think people would dig their heels in a
little bit. The Washington Commanders is an interesting talking point here.
Now I'll preface this with my personal take. I think
we've rushed to crown Jaden Daniels a little bit quickly here.

(39:06):
He had an excellent rookie season, about as great as
you could possibly hope for Rookie of the Year. Looked incredible,
led the team on some comeback drives again postseason appearance,
and just absolutely slinging the pill from start to finish.
Last year. We've seen a lot of guys have very
excellent rookie seasons.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
C J.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
Stroud, who I just spoke about a little bit earlier.
It was just a calendar year ago that we were
having these same conversations. As it pertains to him, I
do think Jayden and Daniels is a good quarterback, could
be one of the best in the NFL. I don't
think he is quite there yet, and it would not
shock me whatsoever if he sophomore slump hits him particularly
hard this year. I think Jalen Hurts is still the

(39:42):
clear cut better quarterback that deserves to benefit. The doubt
wear you out on this discussion.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
I'm with you, and it's something I talked about earlier,
where I think you're going to see regression from him,
as you do for many sophomores, as the league figures
him out and has a full offseason of scouting him,
especially this nfcast, which is it's a difficult NFCS. Obviously,
the Eagles are the favorite, one of the Super Bowl favorites,
but then even the Cowboys are going to be relevant

(40:06):
this year and better than they were last year. The Giants,
I think are gonna be better than last year. Still
the worst team in that division, but better than last year.
So this is a really tough division. I think will
figure out Jane and Daniels more than they did last
year because of full all season of scouting. So I'm
not sold that Jane Daniels is going to be this
surefire top five quarterback in the NFL the rest of

(40:28):
his the next ten decade, like everyone kind of thoughts
drid would be after his or after his first season.
Then there was heavy regression his second season, and nobody
has him in their top ten really now. So I
think you're gonna see that from Jane Daniels. So I'm
taking Jail Hurts right now, but again it's similar to
a lot of these guys over the next five to
ten years. Whould ever rather have probably Jane Daniels because

(40:48):
I think Jane Daniels is an incredible talent and as
again a dual threat guy, which you kind of have
to be in the NFL at this point, like you
have to have that ability to move outside the pocket
and to craig yards on jumbled plays and broken plays
to pick up a five to eight yard gain just
with your legs. And Jane Daniels has that ability, and

(41:09):
we know he is as a passer already as a rookie.
So I think Jane Daniels is gonna be great, and
he's gonna be great for a long time. But right now,
the answer still Jalen Hurts.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Yeah, And another guy that I would note kind of
connect to the bow next timeline a little bit that
Jayden and Daniels did his time in college football, that
he is two years younger than Jalen Hurts, despite Jalen
heading into his sixth season while Jayden and Daniels heading
into his second. There so something to sort of keep
in mind. Again, every guy's pathway is a little bit
different there, but I do think we forgot that that
he honestly should be looking a little bit more powish

(41:38):
when he makes the NFL leap. And now, granted he
was great last year, like there's nothing to take away
from his rookie season, but I think the Stroud comparison
is like a really fair and interesting one based on
how that trajectory won. And I also will know the
Terry McLaurin situation is more than just a non story here.
That is his guy, one of the better wide receivers
in the NFL, and the fact that there is does
seem to be some hard feelings between him and the

(41:59):
organization is the best thing heading into that sophomore season
for him. So I'll just bookmark the Jade Daniels conversation.
I do believe in him and like him as his
quarterback overall. But let's just pump the brakes a little
bit on these top five discussions and how how high
this guy has climbed on some of the rankings, and
see what happens in year two. Now, to keep it
rolling a little bit. The Detroit Lions is one that

(42:19):
fired me up a little bit. I got an image
of Jalen Hurts in a Lions uniform running a triple
option where he can pitch it to Jamiir Gibbs and
you got Jamis and Williams running an end around or
him chucking up for amen Ra. There's another case where
I think you throw Jalen Hurts on the Detroit Lions
right now. There's a pretty likely chance in my mind
that they may have a Super Bowl ring on their finger.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
I'm with you on that because I think the playoffs
the separator for this between Jared Golf and Jalen Hurts
of the playoff stats and then the playoff production, and
we've seen some Jalen Hurts is much greater, even though
we didn't have the amazing playoffs, just from a statistical
out put last year before the Super Bowl and in
a few of those games it was the Rams snow game,
maybe it was the Packers, whatever, like, it's not it's

(43:01):
not the end of the world. We know in the
biggest moments he's elevating this game, and I'm not one
hundred percent sure that Jared Golf does that. You know,
he wasn't very good against the Commanders last year and
that big upset that the Commanders had over the Lions.
So that's really the separator for him. I think Jared
Golf is probably most people would probably say Jared, they'd
rather have Jared Golf, and most people would probably say
outside of Philadelphia that that Jared Golf is the better quarterback.

(43:25):
But the separator for me is the playoff stuff and
who they are as quarterbacks in the playoffs, and that matters,
and that's really important, and that's why Jalen Hurts gets
the edge.

Speaker 2 (43:34):
I think you're lying to yourself if you think that
in the first place, that I think Jalen Hurts is
just a better quarterback than jad Goff pretty much across
the board here, Let's not forget that the team that
is selected him number one overall elected to move on
from this guy, that he was not moving the needle
and I do think that is a rare win win
trade with the Stafford and Golf conversation that.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Yeah, but also it's also like who Jared Golf was
five years ago is not who he is not, right,
Jared Golf was not He's not he was isn't great
to start his scree even when they went made the
Super Bowl that he wasn't even that great. He's a
much better quarterback now than what he was five years ago.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
Yeah, I think that's true. I also will note this
is a guy I have circled for could look pretty
bad this year that there is no longer Ben Johnson
creating the system, that there has been a lot of turnover.
I think the Lions as a whole or a team
that I have some huge question marks about because of
obviously changes it both coordinators and like, I think that
was a team where Dan Campbell fits the Knick Sirianni model,

(44:29):
where he can be the CEO, he can be the
fire you up in the locker room guy, but he
got to have his coordinators sort of run the show
to an extent from a game plan and game day
type of thing. I like Dan Campbell. I don't mean
that it's necessarily critique, just kind of the best way
for things to run there. I'm just curious how things
do go down in Detroit this year. But nonetheless, to
keep it moving. We are now at the big dogs.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
I just want to say that I think for Jared
Golf is that looks the running game still rely on
Jared Golf to throw the ball a ton and we
look at those.

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah ah.

Speaker 3 (45:19):
Sing at times. I think j Jered Golf threw the
ball like five last season.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Yeah, and we got a little bit of guy, a
little bit of cutting down, but I got the main
premise of it. Yeah, Jared Goff does air it out
a ton there. But yeah, I still think I'm rocking
with Talen Hurts, and I think a lot of Lions
fans would as well. At the end of the day,
let's get into the big.

Speaker 3 (45:44):
I don't know what's going on with my Wi Fi
got I got full bores. I got full bores. All
my apps are closed. I don't know what is going
on with this WiFi right now. I mean the perfect
location WiFi always works. I don't know what's going on,
but it's really kissing me off right there.

Speaker 2 (45:57):
I hear you and Jack record pretty good. We typically
do not have these type of issues. So who knows
what's going on in the world today the Kansas City chiefs.
I do not think I can talk myself in the
conversation that Andy Reid signed up to take Jalen Hurts
over Patrick Mahomes. Do you think there's any chance where
that is the case.

Speaker 3 (46:15):
Nothing, nothing to be said about that. Even though Jalen
Hurts has between two Super Bowls they played at the
d Jalen Hurts has outperformed them in the entirety of
those two Super Bowls. That's a fact. You'll still going
Patrick Mahomes.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
Yeah, super Bowl MVP. Jalen Hurts absolutely has there. But
now I think Patrick Mahomes is the system. As our
good friend James Harden likes to say quite a bit
there that he's done some pretty special stuff. And I
do think Kansas City has sort of pushed the limits
for just putting just a guy around him from a
wide receiver corp perspective that he has not had Tyreek
Hill in several years. They've just sort of really pushed

(46:46):
these limits up. It does not matter who the pass
catchers are, Patrick Mahomes is going to make them at
least combetate there, and he's delivered on that premise. So
I do think Patrick Mahomes is the story here. The
Baltimore Ravens is one where I think there is more debate.
I think Jalen hurts if he's on the Baltimore Ravens,
they become a better football team. You disagree with that.

Speaker 3 (47:06):
There, come, well, are you not a Lamar Jackson fan?

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Lamar My Lamar stock took a huge hit last year,
and I think the playoff shortcomings we have to discuss
with him a little bit. Firmer. It's the case. Me
and Mark Henry Junior had a quite spirited conversation about
this a couple of weeks ago. But I mean, just
to lay out the playoff stuff with Lamar, just keeping
it completely on the stats here that across his eight
playoff games has thrown for one thousand and seven and

(47:31):
fifty three yards. He has ten touchdowns and seven interceptions there.
And if we want to go on some of the
exact like game log stuff, the one that really stands
out to me is against Buffalo against Josh Allen. In
its entirety, this happening back in twenty twenty one to
this point, put up three points in a playoff game
through bro one hundred and sixty two yards, had one
interception and a one fumble there with no touchdowns.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
Tallis it's not fair. It's not fair to me because
there were legitimate playoff concerns. Yes, he hasn't got over
the hump, and he has to get by Josh Allen
or Patrick Mahomes or Joe Burrow and those guys to
be considered on the tier. But that was a few
years ago when there was serious struggles in the postseason
that were concerning. You look at the postseason lost last

(48:15):
year to Buffalo, he wasn't bad. You look at the
posts two years ago, two two years ago to the Chiefs.
I didn't think he was bad in that Game's offense
didn't do great. I think Josh Allen outperformed him. I
think Patrick Mahomes outperformed him because those guys are better quarterbacks,
especially in the playoffs. But he wasn't bad. It's not like, oh,
you can't win in the playoffs with this guy anymore
and he's the reason why you're losing games. I'm not

(48:37):
saying he was great, but he wasn't Like he wasn't
this awful playoff performer like you've seen from like a
Justin Herbert who had like a playoff collapse last year
like that that didn't happen, And so I don't think
that's really fair. Like Lamar Jackson is a way better
quarterback than Jale Hurts, and he is a way better passer.
Lamar Jackson, because of his struggles as a passer and
earlier in his career and because of how great of

(48:58):
a rusher, he was not considered this great passer now.
But he's the most underrated pastor in the league because
he's a top five throw over the football strictly, and
that doesn't even include his rushing ability and everything that
brings to the offense. He's a great pocket passer and
that's people discount with him. So I don't think he's
better than Josh Allen are those guys, And when people
go that far, I'll argue back and push back on

(49:20):
the playoff stuf. The playoff stuff lasco Beers hasn't been bad,
it just hasn't been as good as those guys.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Yeah, you're right about that. We're in the upper echelon
of quarterback conversations that I think both these guys crack
the top five of the NFL, and Stan Purtty firm
in that take there, But there is this comforting put
the ball in his hands with the game on the line,
and he's going to deliver. That I feel about Jalen
Hurtis that I don't about Lamar Jackson. The statistical stuff,
the regular season stuff, Lamar exceeds him, There is no

(49:47):
argument about that. But I do think from like a
decision making standpoint, from a turnover standpoint, there are more
red flags that I think we've I personally have been
aware of and really fully talked about from Lamar. From
the standpoint, you absolutely can still with him. This can
be absolutely be a guy that puts a Super Bowl
ring on his finger at some point in a Baltimore
Ravens uniform. But I do think if you're just talking

(50:07):
about a chance to win, I think Jalen Hurts gives
you a clearer edge from a post.

Speaker 3 (50:11):
But Lamar Jackson doesn't have an A J. Brown and
Smitty like. He's had a good running game, but he
doesn't have a Saquon Barkley.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Like Derrick Henry.

Speaker 3 (50:20):
He's not Saquon Barkley. They really I mean, they did
have the number one rushing team in the league last year,
but that was a lot because of Lamar Jackson, not
just dal though Derek. Yeah, that's fair, but Saquon Barkley
is the best rushing league and they have the best
offensive line of the league, which really helps Jalen Hurts.
Derek Henry is awesome, and their offensive line is really good,
but it's not that the Eagles level.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
Derek Henry, also, I would say, is more you put
him on any team. He's effective in a way that
Saquan is not.

Speaker 3 (50:47):
You don't think Saquan's effective on any team.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
Like Derrick Henry on the Titans was more effective than
Saquon Barkley on the Giants.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
That was also a good Titans team. Like those Titan
teams made the playoffs and were like close to AFC.
I think they made an AFC championship one year. Those
were good Titans. Even if you don't love Ryan Tannell
as a quarterback, those were good teams. The Giants just
sucked all around. It wasn't Saquon's fault.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
I think good is strong. They were competent AFC championship.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
Yeah, were always in the playoffs. Like that's good.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
Yeah, I mean, I still I just think that is
a fair take that Derrick Henry was more effective on
the Titans than Saquon was on the Giants there, and
I think, like, if we're gonna do these comparisons that
in the same way that Lamar and Derek Henry are
complimentary to each other there, Jalen and Saquon absolutely are.
Now with that said, like, I think these are the
right combos here that I think like these two specific
pairings like sort of firing and ice combo that they

(51:39):
got with Lamar and Derrick Henry there versus Saquon and
Jalen being I don't know if best. I guess all
around is a better term. I think they compliment each
other the best and how the current pairings are, but uh,
that would be my point there.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
I just I just I think the receivers matter too,
especially when you're talking about a guy Lamar Jackson throws
the ball way more than Jaylen Hurts does because they
trust him to and Lamar Jackson doesn't have an A J.
Brown or a Smitty And like the knock with Hurts
is that when you go back to two years ago
when he had to throw the Bowl of Ton. He
wasn't a good passers. Decision making was poor, his interceptions

(52:14):
were way up, and that's when he didn't have an
unbelievable running game to rely on. So that's always gonna
be the knock with him where that you saw him
as a high volume passer one year and he was
not good at all. If see Lamar Jackson, the high
volume passers still be great.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Yeah, I think that's fair. I think we're talking about
winning a Super Bowl.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Man.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
There is something that.

Speaker 3 (52:33):
OK, I get you, but like that's why I put
you on Hurts number five right now. But Lamar Jackson'
show on a different category as a quarterback. It's not
even close in terms of the talent, I.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
Think, Yeah, I do think it's close here, Lamar is
more talented. I do think it is there in the
vicinity here. Let's swing it to the next guy, Josh
Allen here, who I think is other interesting conversation. I'll
let you lead with this one. Would the Buffalo Bills
ever consider swapping Josh Allen for Jalen Hurts?

Speaker 3 (53:02):
Never? Never, never in a million years. Josh Allen has
turned the Bills into Super Bowl contenders. Strictly because he's
on the team. That's the only reason you can say
their defense was pretty good last year. Josh Allen isn't
working with some great weapons. Josh Allen is that incredible
of a quarterback where he's on any team and that
team is a super Bowl contender. You can't say that
about Jalen Hurts. You can't say that about almost any

(53:24):
other quarterback in the league other than Mahomes and Lamar Jackson,
maybe Joe Burrow. So Josh Allen is the number two
quarterback in the NFL. To me, I argued that he
should have won the MVP last year, and then he
did win it, even though I thought it was gonna
go to Lamar. Josh Allen is the second best quarterback
in the league. That the Bills would laugh if Harry
Roseman ever even caught about that, Bills would laugh them
off and hang that phone up.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Yeah, I'm not gonna argue here, and I will say
I'm still blown away by the turnaround that Josh Allen
had from what he looked like at the very start
of his career to what he currently looks like. For
a dude, that was one of the most reckless decision
makers that I've ever seen with the football to a
guy who is the legitimate MVP of the NFL, there
is pretty impressive stuff there. So yeah, I'm not gonna
to fight out over that too much.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
I'm seeing a lot of Josh Allen's the best quarterback
in the league, though recently after the Mahomes of Super
Bowl and just how the season finished for the Chiefs
last year. To me, that's ridiculous. Where do you stand
on that? Who's the best quarterback in the NFL? Right now?

Speaker 2 (54:22):
I still think it's Patrick Mahomes. I still think that
should be the guy that holds the bell, And even
I get obviously Jalen hurts like one of Super Bowl
MVP has the title and like to performed on the bright,
biggest stage last year. I don't think people were given
enough credit for how much Patrick Mahomes elevated that offense
around him and took that specific Chiefs team to another
Super Bowl. But again, I think they're really pushing the

(54:43):
limits up. We're just gonna bring in whatever wide receivers
and Patrick Mahomes is gonna make them look fine. But
he has held up his end of the bargain in
that category. So yeah, I still think Mahomes is the
top quarterback in the NFL.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
Yeah, I get it from the argument that the Bills
offense has been so great and that's because of Josh
Allen the last couple of years, and the Chiefs all
offense has gone the other way. Where the first five
years of Mahomes' career as a starter, that offense was incredible.
The last two years the offense has heavily regressed across
the board, and their defense has actually been one of
the best in the league. And their defense is carrying
it to these great records and all these wins and

(55:14):
the playoffs. Mahomes does his thing, but there's no argument
you can make when those guys have gone ahead to head.
Josh Allen has lost to Patrick Mahomes three of the
last four years in the postseason. And that's not all
like it's obviously they're not playing each other head to head.
It's their defenses that they're going against. And it's not
that Josh Allen has been bad in those games. He
hasn't been at all. I mean, even last year was

(55:35):
a thirty two to twenty nine final that the Chiefs won.
But Mahomes have been better, and there's nobody you can
watch those games and have any other takeaway than the
best quarterback on this field throughout the game was Patrick
Mahomes and he's just been better than Josh Allen. So
you have to beat the best to be the best,
and Josh Allen has not done that just yet. It's
similar like the Peyton Manning Tom Brady stuff, where Peyton
Manning could have been considered probably a better passer and

(55:58):
maybe like a better, more talented quarterback throughout those or
those mid two thousand years up until the late or
I guess early twenty tens, but who was always winning
in the playoffs and who was getting it done in
the clutch in the postseason, and that was Tom Brady.
And that's why he's always and will be considered better
than Peyton Manning because of those rings and because of

(56:18):
how he dominated the AFC in a way that Peyton
Manning did it. So it's similar with that to me
with Josh Allen, where you can make the argument Josh
Allen has to do more for his offense and is
the more talented quarterback at this point, but Patrick Mahomes
has done it time and time again in the playoffs
in the postseason, So there's no way you can rank
Josh Allen's number quarterback in the league right there.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
Yeah, And I honestly think the Manning versus Brady comparison
is a really fair and good one with these two,
especially as their careers continue to pan out. There also
would really love for Kansas City to like, really invest
in Let's get Patrick Mahomes like a top guy as
a wide receiver and just let's see some magic happen.
Let's bring back some form of Tyreek Kale, bring him
his own AJ Brown or whoever guy may be. Obviously

(57:01):
keep AJ and Philly, but somebody of that caliber I
think would be kind of cool to serve as a
reminder everybody to just how good Patrick Mahomes is, and
especially when we are in the dwindling years of the
Travis Kelcey era here, that that's not going to be
around forever as age catches up with him. So I
would like to see them load up with a couple
more weapons for Mahomes and let him rip it in
a way that he has not been in several years.

(57:22):
So to recap before we wrap up here, the only
three teams that I'm saying, for sure, hang up the
phone immediately and do not believe that Patrick Mahomes upgrades.
I mean that Jalen Hurts increases their chances of winning
football games. Here, I think it's the citizen, Cincinnati Bengals,
the Buffalo Bills, and the Kansas City Chiefs. Who are
the other names that you had on the table for
this discussion.

Speaker 3 (57:43):
To me, the Ravens are one hundred percent of that too,
And I think that's how you've view how you viewed
this question, is how you viewed the quarterback rankings and
that dynamic where to me, Jaalen Hurtz is the fifth
best quarterback in league and I wouldn't be surprised if
next year, after next season, that ranking change a little bit.
Whre he's a little closer to ten than five. And
I think most of the league, as we saw with

(58:04):
that ESPN article when they interviewed a lot of scouts
and executives and GMS and all that stuff and coaches,
and Jalen Hurts was closer to ten than five. And
I think that's how most of the league used him
because of the incredible situation he's in, which is the
best situation of any quarterback in the NFL. But to me,
it's five right now is where he's at his ranking

(58:24):
because of his postseason play and what he did in
the Super Bowl last year. So there's four teams that
the answers complete. No, it's the Ravens, the Bengals, the Chiefs,
and the Bills. Everyone else. You're taking Jalen Hurts over
that guy, even if you have to entertain it for
some of those teams.

Speaker 2 (58:42):
Yeah, Now, I do think that is spot on there.
So I thought this was a fun exercise walking through that.
And the message I think for Eagles fans here is
just let's appreciate who Jalen Hurts is a little bit.
There would be a lot of teams dying to be
in the spot that the Philadelphia Eagles are currently in
with him representing as the face of the franchise and quarterback.
Super Bowl MVP. Jalen Hurts is our So, sam Ani

(59:02):
final thoughts on this topic or anything NFL season before
we sign off here.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
No, I we'll do the division picks. We went long
on this, so we'll do division picks next next week.
We'll give all our division picks and then we'll do
some Award picks too, look at those betting markets, and
then maybe we'll give some super Bowl picks too, because
season's coming up, seasons coming out that. We're both college
football guys too, so maybe we should dive in some
college football as well.

Speaker 2 (59:26):
Yeah, I've been cranking out some previews for a shout
out to the DraftKings Network wrote up a nice sun
Belt preview the other day having the Conference USA. So
I'm getting in the waters here in college football. So yeah,
I will be back in, locked in for all of that.
Me and Sam gonna hit on all right here on
Fox Sports The Gambler, So make sure you guys keep
it locked in the dial, drop the subscribe, drop all like,
give us a shout out on social media's wherever you

(59:47):
are listening at. I appreciate you guys for tuning in,
and me and Sam will be back talking you next time. Pease.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
The Picks and Roll podcast can be found on FOXPHL
Gambler dot com spreads totals all the proper that's in between.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
It's The Gambler