Ep. 98: Five Likes and Dislikes from NFL Opening Weekend, Kawhi Leonard Clippers Saga and More - 09/08/25

Sam Oshtry and Sean Barnard discuss their top five likes and dislikes from NFL's opening weekend, the Kawhi Leonard/Clippers drama, and more.

Episode Transcript

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Speaker 4 (00:58):
Number one.

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Speaker 2 (01:06):
It is Fox Sports Radio The Gambler. Welcome into Fox
Sports The Gambler on an NFL Reaction Monday. I'm Sam Austrey,
joined by my partner in crime, my good friend Sean Bernard.
Every single Monday, we're gonna be with you, kicking off
the entire NFL season into the NBA season. But it's
football time. We had the first full weekend of a

(01:28):
football finally, a full day of college football, full day
of NFL Sunday, Sean, how are you doing, Doe?

Speaker 4 (01:35):
Great, Sam Austria. Now we are back in full swing.

Speaker 5 (01:37):
It is the fall, it is football season, it is
We're back on our normal.

Speaker 4 (01:41):
Schedule right here.

Speaker 5 (01:42):
So I felt like these past couple weeks, the end
of the summer sort of dragging through the sports calendar.
It's back fully in our face right now. We got
action all over the place. Game tonight, a loaded weekend,
so I'm hyped to get into it all.

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Absolutely and we're gonna start. We're gonna jump all over
the slate yesterday. We're gonna talk about the best win,
our worst win, our best loss, hoarse off some takeaways,
things we like dis like. We're gonna overreact, We're gonna
say what you shouldn't be overreacting to. But there's only
one place to start and it's with probably the game
of the year. I mean, I don't think we're gonna
see a game as good as what we saw last

(02:14):
night between the Bills and the Ravens. A rematch, of
course of that Divisional round game last year when the
Bills ultimately win, but then they of course lose to
the Chiefs in the AFC Championship. This was an opportunity
for revenge for the Ravens to open the season. It
was in Buffalo, but this was an opportunity for revenge,
and it felt like the Ravens were gonna win it.
Ravens had control for most of the game, They felt

(02:34):
like the better team for most of the game, and
then they get conservative in the fourth quarter and the
Bills mount a huge comeback. The Ravens punt with about
a minute thirty to go, questionable call, and here you
have it. The Bills march down and they win on
a game winning field goal. Forty one to forty is
the final. It feels like we're gonna get your reaction
a second, but it feels like the same way the

(02:56):
Bills can't beat the Chiefs. Get over that chief some
The Ravens are now struggling to get over that Bill's hump. Sean,
what was your main takeaway?

Speaker 5 (03:05):
Yeah, I think these are absolutely the two best teams
in the AFC, maybe the two best teams in all
of football right now.

Speaker 4 (03:11):
There was an incredible football game.

Speaker 5 (03:12):
The NFL got it right having that as our opening
Sunday night matchup there.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
I know the Bills were incredible.

Speaker 5 (03:18):
That Josh Allen has really taken that step into that
category of quarterback that we need to talk about, borderline,
that Mahomes type category. And of course he's got to
put the rings on the finger. Both these guys, Lamar
and Josh Allen have to find a way to get
the job done in the postseason there.

Speaker 4 (03:32):
But you're not gonna get more supreme.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
Quarterback play than what we just saw from Josh Allen
to close out last night.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
It was an incredibly impressive performance right there.

Speaker 5 (03:40):
It does feel like there's almost like a mental side
to this battle that Baltimore is really suffering from that
they can't quite get over that hump, and they're gonna
have to figure out a way that They've loaded up
their treasure dress of assets.

Speaker 4 (03:50):
Here. You got Derek Henry now in the mix.

Speaker 5 (03:52):
This defense should be one of the best of the
Baltimore raor here and they're still not quite getting the
job done. So this was a game that I entered
with the thought process. I think this means more to
Baltimore than it does to Buffalo. But that didn't matter
in the end, because the Bills found a way to
get done. So hat tip to them. In an awesome
game of football around you.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Watch the quarterback play throughout the entire day, you watch
on red Zone, you're flipping from game to game on
Sunday Ticket and you're like, all right, this is fine whatever,
And then you watch Sunday Night and you watch Lamar
Jackson and Josh Allen, and those two guys are completely
different Stratuspheueres and we'll put Patrick Mahomes right there too
in terms of the level that they're playing at versus

(04:30):
everyone else. So a lot of people are criticizing their defense.
Ra Evens had one of the best defense in the
league last year. Bill's had a solid defense. Really came
all towards the end of the year and they're like,
how are each of these teams giving up forty points?
I don't those two defense are gonna be fine. They
have great personnel. This is two of the best quarterbacks
of this generation who are so uniquely talented where they're
great passers, but they don't also do it with their legs,

(04:52):
and those guys can carve up any defense, doesn't matter
how good it is. So this is just two of
the best quarterbacks and got Watching those guys dueled out
was awesome. I mean, this was the I'm telling you, like,
I don't think we're gonna have a better game than
what we saw last night. This was an incredible football
game from start to finish with two of the best quarterbacks. Maybe,
like in the playoffs, Patrick Mahomes is a different beast,

(05:12):
but over the last like two regular seasons, there's no
question Lamar Jackson Josh Josh Allen are the best quarterbacks
in the league. And it'll probably be a battle for
MVP between those two guys. Again, and I'm a Josh
Allen guy. I thought he should have won MVP last year,
and so when he didn't make the AP first team,
I didn't think he was going to But then of
course he ends up winning MVP, and I think that
was the right call. A lot of people were on

(05:34):
the Lamar Jackson tree Josh Allen had over four hundred
yards to the account for between his legs and his
arm in that game yesterday. That's unbelievable. And Lamar's stats
don't necessarily pop, but he was incredible too as a
runner and as a passer. The Ravens really got conservative
late in that game, where they didn't allow Lamar to
win it with his arm, which I thought they should have.

(05:56):
Were you were you surprised by that, because like when
you're looking at all these Bills wins over the Ravens,
a lot of these Ravens playoff losses, a lot of
their big time losses, they've led in the second half,
they've led in the fourth quarter, and they blow those games.
This is Jim Harball leads every active coach in terms
of blown fourth quarter leads. In terms of leads where
he's had a ten plus point lead, he is number

(06:18):
one in those that blown lead category. Were you surprised
at how conservative the Ravens got late in that game?

Speaker 4 (06:26):
Yeah, I was a bit.

Speaker 5 (06:27):
I don't know, Like in the early parts of the game,
one of the takeaways that popped out to me is
it felt like Lamar was running for life. That the
Bills were doing a really nice job of creating pressure
and they didn't really get to him, but certainly speeding
up his process and chasing him out of the pocket.

Speaker 4 (06:39):
There.

Speaker 5 (06:39):
It felt like the midpoint of that game that sort
of settled it. And I was kind of surprised when
as you were set me up here that there was
only one sack officially logged by the Bills last night.
It felt like they were in his face pretty NonStop there,
and I think that kind of took a toll as
the game progressed. It felt like maybe the midpoint he
found some you know, a little bit of an answer
to that, or Baltimore did across the board, and then
that was a problem down the stretch again. So I

(07:00):
think like when you have a quarterback like Lamar Jackson,
you just got to live and die with wherever he
takes you. And I don't think Baltimore really I'm really
abided by that principle there. So at the end of
the day, like this is going to be one of
the highest level football games that we see all year.
Like you mentioned, I don't think that the Ravens should
be in panic mode after this or anything like that,
but certainly not the way do you want to want
to start the season. And I do think that was

(07:21):
a matchup that meant more to Baltimore, so they are going.

Speaker 4 (07:24):
To be feeling this today.

Speaker 5 (07:25):
This is obviously the team that knocked them out of
the postseason just a couple of months ago with that
full Mark Andrews drop there. So I don't know, I'm
glad we got to watch that for a week one.
I'm not ready to dive too deep into the takeaways
of like Baltimore should be panicked or anything like that.

Speaker 2 (07:38):
No, definitely not. I mean it's week one and what
we saw last year from Week one was the Ravens
lost to the Chiefs in that opening game on Thursday
night to kick off the season, and they lost Week
two too as a big favorite, and they started the
season zero and two and that didn't matter at all.
Of course, they picked it up as deer went on,
So it doesn't really anything that happens in Week one
to me, doesn't really matter because teams will get better

(07:59):
as the year goes on and some teams will folter
off and we'll know who's left standing. But these two teams,
you can competing for that top spot in the AFC
like that number one overall seed that will get a
bye and home field advantage. About the entire playoffs, it's
between these two teams. I know, it's it's silly and
stupid kind of to discount the Chiefs who have just
been to three straight Super Bowls and dominate the AFC
ever since Patrick Mahomes came onto the scene. But what

(08:21):
we saw from the Chiefs on Friday night, which we
will talk about certainly, I'm not letting you off the
hook about Justin Herbert, so we'll talk about that. But
this is these are the two teams that are going
to be competing for that top spot. As far as
I'm concerned, these are the two teams are the class
of the AFC, like you said, and maybe really get
better than this.

Speaker 4 (08:39):
Yeah, THATFL too, And I will know.

Speaker 5 (08:41):
You did forget to mention Daniel Jones when speaking about
the premier quarterback play across that.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
He'll be mentioned. He'll be mentioned.

Speaker 5 (08:47):
Yeah, but yeah, I think it's it's kind of cool that,
like you're you're right, it's.

Speaker 4 (08:51):
Almost like for sure, Mahomes at the front and center.

Speaker 5 (08:54):
But the two like the biggest rivalry and maybe the
entire NFL may shape up to be Ravens Bills that
it does feel these are the two heavyweight dogs that
we're gonna see face off and just scrap and looking
to earn that chance. I don't think this is the
last time that we see these two guys face off
this year, and I think there will be a playoff
matchup between these two two teams. Directly, it very well
could be the ABC Championship, depending on how things shape

(09:14):
out in the overall standings there.

Speaker 4 (09:15):
But I do think like that was great football. These
are two.

Speaker 5 (09:18):
Teams itching to get over the edge, and I think
this year might be the season that one of them
actually does it.

Speaker 2 (09:23):
Yeah, I'm with you. I don't have the Chiefs. I mean,
my preseason pick to win the Super Bowl was the Bills.
I had Bills over over Packers. That was my head pick,
not my heart pick. So I think this is the
year that the Chiefs aren't ultimately back in the Super Bowl.
We'll talk about that. Just to put a cap on
this game, a little statuck give you. The Ravens are
the first team in NFL history to score forty plus

(09:44):
points and rush for over two hundred and thirty five
yards and lose teams were previously two hundred and seventy
seven to zero before last night. So you score forty
plus points, you rush for that many yards between Lamar
Jackson and Derek Henry, and somehow they find a way
to lose where they completely control that game. But the
Josh Allen and the Bills just never go away. They're
always lurking and they pull it off. Any other takeaways

(10:07):
or should we move on? Yeah, I'm ready to keep
it rolling from here.

Speaker 5 (10:10):
I think, like, like I said, this was that's gonna
be in the mix for one of the best games
of the season.

Speaker 4 (10:14):
There.

Speaker 5 (10:15):
I think I'm willing to walk away with that being
like a bit of a victory for both these sides
that I think the Ravens are very clearly legitimate contenders
even though losing last night, and the Bills, like I guess,
my final takeaway is that I had sitting there last night,
I can't believe what Josh Allen has turned himself into.
Man Like, when you think about the Josh Allen that
showed up in the NFL his rookie season, I thought
it was impossible to take the level of strides that

(10:37):
he has become a directly elite quarterback, Like he was
objectively bad as a rookie and his decision making was atrocious.
The fact that he's cleaned things up and just been
a dude that win the game is on the line,
you want him making the calls, ball in his hand
like that. It's pretty incredible to me. So I don't
think he gets brought up enough for acknowledge. Just really
like the career arc that this guy's had and how
many steps forward that he's taking his progressions.

Speaker 4 (10:59):
Shout out Josh Allen for the pieces.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, people talk about like someone like Peyton Manning all
the time, who was like a guy who won with
his head and between the years, just such a cerebral quarterback,
and it wasn't necessarily his talent, even though of course
that was there. Josh Allen's become that he's become like
as smart, like as Patrick Mahomes and these other guys
of dissecting defenses, and his recklessness has really simmered down.

(11:23):
I mean, this is a guy that not just put
his body on the line, but put the ball in
the ligne constantly stupid throws, was never running out of bounds,
was going into contact, which of course could risk injuries
and coaches tell you not to do that, even though
quarterbacks who are who are tough guys like he is
do that all the time. But he's really limited the
recklessness in his game and just becoming a really smart quarterbacks.

(11:43):
So to your point, Josh Allen's development and progression throughout
his scurer has been incredible and he's he's He's the
best quarterback in the league as far as I'm concerned
right now. Like it might be a little crazy because
Patrick Mahomes and the playoffs, sure, but over the last
two seasons, the entire sample of work, including the regular season,
Josh's been the guy.

Speaker 5 (12:01):
I want to be like riding on this train of
Patrick Mahomes and the guy anymore, I just can't do it.
Like even in like a matchup like Friday, which we
can talk about now, Like there's still moments where I'm like,
I think Patrick Mahomes is the only quarterback on the
planet that is making that play like that little the
one that was like that shovel past passes he was
following there is like that's absurd stuff that how do

(12:21):
you even think of, let alone execute that. Mahomes is
still the guy that's gonna hold that crown until someone
knocks it off it. But it does feel like there's
more a thread of that happening than I imagine was
going to be the case.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
You know that line from from Moneyball, where it's like
there are rich teams and there are poor teams, and
there's fifty foot of crap, and then there's and then
there's us. That's like the tiers of the quarterbacks right now,
where it's like it's Mahomes, it's it's Josh Allen, it's
Lamar Jackson, and I don't even know if you want
to put Burrow on that.

Speaker 4 (12:50):
List, but guys, yeah, toughly, Like Burrow's right there.

Speaker 2 (12:53):
He's definitely the fourth best quarterback in the league, but
he's not right there. So there's those three. There's Burrow
and then there was a massive and right there too.
I'll put Hurts right there too, But there is a
massive drop off just between those top three in terms
of their talent and what they're capable of doing put
off teams and offenses on their back, and then everybody else.

Speaker 5 (13:12):
Yeah, I think that's fair. I would keep it the
top five. I think I think that that they even like.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
Like I don't want this to be a Jone Hurts discussion,
but there is. And I love Jon Hurst, but there
is such a massive drop off between what Josh Allen
and Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes can do for their
offenses versus what Jalone Hurts. They're just there is.

Speaker 5 (13:32):
But at the same time, like Thursday was a game
that I think the Eagles only won because Jalen Hurts
was their quarterback and he did exactly what was necessary
on that. But I think like all these plug and
play guys you can go around the league, none of
the Baker mayfields, none of the like those type of
guys who are good quarterbacks like are able to execute
that way.

Speaker 4 (13:49):
So I hear you.

Speaker 5 (13:50):
It's certainly the top three I think is very clearly
like Patrick Mahomes, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson. There I do
think Joe Burrow and Jalen Hurts at least have a
seat at the table.

Speaker 2 (13:58):
That all right, we can we can table the quarterback
discussion for another day. Let's let's keep it moving here.
We're gonna go to give out some super libs of
the weekends. We're gonna hit on a ton of games
doing this and ton of players, teams, quarterbacks, whatever. But
we're gonna start with our best win of the Sunday slate,
and we're actually not gonna keep it a Sunday state.
We're gonna go Thursday, Friday, whatever, you want to hit

(14:20):
best win of the slate, and then we're gonna go
to the worst win. But started with best win, and
I'll give you mine after years.

Speaker 4 (14:27):
The best win. I'm going a little bit off the
map here.

Speaker 5 (14:30):
I'm going with the Indianapolis colts Man that I think
there's some life in Indy that I did not expect
remotely to be the case. I kind of took this
as the win that changed my perception of a team
the most, and for me, that was the cults.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Now.

Speaker 5 (14:41):
I do think probably the larger story here is how
bad the Miami Dolphins are. That that's very clearly a
part of this equation here. But Daniel Jones, man, I
thought this guy, we've seen him look atrocious as a quarterback.
But that was not the Daniel Jones that took the
ball on Sunday. He completed twenty two of his twenty
nine passing attempts for two hundred and seventy two yards.

Speaker 4 (14:59):
In a time down.

Speaker 5 (15:00):
Also added with his legs twenty six yards and a
pair of rushing touchdowns.

Speaker 4 (15:04):
I thought the Colts look borderline good there.

Speaker 5 (15:06):
I'm not gonna say that this is a team that's
gonna be in the mix irrelevant from a season, but
I do think there is a chance that I have
Daniel Jones on the watch of the Sam Darnold career
arc or maybe even the Baker Mayfield career arc where
he does find is putting in at another location Gino Smith
career Arc there.

Speaker 4 (15:22):
I could see it happening there.

Speaker 5 (15:23):
I was really impressed by what I saw by the
Indianapolis Colts, and I did not think there was any
way that I'd be saying that on Monday.

Speaker 4 (15:28):
On it.

Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, Daniel Jones was also. I mean that was one
of the more impressive games He's probably playing his entire career.
Twenty two for twenty nine, two hundred and seventy two
yards in the air. He looked really comfortable and poised.
I think Daniel Jones is a good quarterback. I mean,
he's not like some franchise guy that obviously was drafted
way too early from where the Giants got him. But
when you leave New York. Can you leave an awful

(15:50):
organization that's run really poorly with the Giants and you
go to You know, the Colts have had their issues
since Andrew Luck retired. But like we like Shane Stiken
a lot. We think he's a good offen mind, a
guy who can develop quarterbacks well. When you go to
a situation like that, it can help your career. And
there was a reason he won the job over Anthony Richardson.
That might speak to more Anthony Richardson's issues and how

(16:11):
the Colts view him than anything else. But still like
Daniel Jones is a good quarterback. He's better than a
backup quarterback in the league. He's a serviceable quarterback. I
want to pump the brakes for a second because the Dolphins,
actually everyone predicted this before the year, and they've obviously
proved it true when you see Tyreek Hill's outburst on
the sideline. They're gonna hit the trifecta this year, and

(16:32):
it's gonna happen before mid season, where Mike McDaniel's gonna
be fired too, is gonna be benched, and Tyreek hal
is gonna request the trade and probably be traded by
the time we hit mid season. This is an absolute
and everyone predicted it coming into the year. The vibes
around the team were awful. Tyreek was calling out to
Tua and Tyreek obviously have a very poor relationship. Mike
McDaniel does not as cool as a South Florida guy.

(16:53):
He is. He is no when he's vaping on the
sideline doing all that. He has no grasp of that
Colt during that organization, and everyone kind of knew that
and predicted they were going to collapse. And you just
saw in a week one if they can't score against
the Colts, and Twa looked awful with his three picks.
One was completely overthrown, another one just it was like,
where his eyes going on this?

Speaker 4 (17:15):
The linebacker in the eyes and throw them and we.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Could have picked that up. We could have read his
eyes and picked that off. It was. It was an
awful off interception. He looked awful. So this is a
complete rebuild for the Dolphins starting next season. I think
everyone recognizes that they're gonna have to go in a
lot of different directions and a lot of key spots.
So I don't want to just crown the Colts and
Daniel Jones just yet because of how awful this situation

(17:40):
is with the Dolphins that they're playing. But I will
say the one thing I saw from Daniel Jones was
what's made him kind of a questionable quarterback most of
his career and his tenure with the Giants was the
negative plays, just like the dumb sacks, awful decisions that
lead the turnovers. And that wasn't there yesterday. Like that
was impressive, as there's still like some some throws where

(18:01):
he's off target shore and he still kind of uses
his legs I don't want to say poorly, but kind
of scrambs out of the pocket before he should doesn't
always love to stay in there. He's obviously an athletic guy.
But you saw less negative plays and that's that's the
next development for Daniel Jones to be a more legitimate starter.
And I thought that was a bit big, And you're right,
like to everyone's point, and everyone talks about this in

(18:23):
the NFL. Now it's all about your situation more than
it is your talent. Like you need a great coaching staff,
you need a great situation. There's very few quarterbacks in
the league who are good enough to overcome a bad situation,
and obviously Daniel Jones and most of the guys in
the league aren't. So when you go from one really
bad organization to another one that might be more promising,
like we saw even Jared Golf who struggled and he

(18:45):
went from a good coach to good organization. But sometimes
you need new sceniory, you need a new you need
a new coaching staff, and just a new organization, new
building to walk into every day, and that helps guys
like Jared Golf, like Sam Darnold Baker and mail Feed,
all these guys who have had career resurrection. We could
be looking at that with Danie Jones. I'm pumping the
brakes a little bit, but it wouldn't shock me if
it ends up in that direction because sometimes a new

(19:06):
situation and more experienced, more reps behind you helps, And
that's that might be what we're looking at.

Speaker 5 (19:12):
Yeah, that's kind of where my brain's at as well
with the situation. And again I did not expect for
me to be here after a week one. And I
will to talk about Miami real quick. We all love
like Mike McDaniel for like him being kind of quirky
and you know the way that he carries himself when
things are going south, which they currently are for the Dolphins.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
I can't imagine that version.

Speaker 5 (19:30):
Dude having a walk in front of the locker room
and trying to put his foot down, and how annoying
that must come off there. It does feel like things
are going nowhere very quick down in Miami. I'm gonna
prem it that I do think we get the Mike
McDaniel firing, we do get the Tyreek Kill trade request.

Speaker 4 (19:44):
And I will also put this out.

Speaker 5 (19:45):
There that it is a seventy two million dollar buyout
and to his contract there, so it's a lot of
money they committed. It's gonna be a mess. I don't
think this cleans itself up anytime soon.

Speaker 2 (19:56):
I'm with you, all right, I'll give you my best win.
I was gonna go right to the loss. I'm we're
gonna talk about it because I'm not letting you off
the hook. And this is it. The best win of
the weekend, and we're going back to Friday. Is the Chargers,
and I had the Chargers winning this division before the season.
I'm feeling pretty good about it right now. We can
talk about what it means for the Chiefs, but let's
talk about what it means for this Chargers and Chargers
offense where Justin Herbert played a nearly perfect ballgame. I mean,

(20:20):
let's read the numbers right here. Three hundred and eighteen yards,
three touchdowns, one hundred and thirty one passer rating, seventy
three percent completion percentage. He was terrific in every setting possible.
And you've been the biggest Justin Herbert hater that exists.
And I get what you're gonna say, so I'm just
gonna get ahead of it right now. Yeah, the playoffs
stuff is bad. Those two playoff losses. He was responsible
for both those losses, no doubt. You've also been critical

(20:43):
of him in the regular season two and just hit
his place among one of the best quarterbacks in the league.
He's undoubtedly a top ten quarterback. We're now looking at
two straight games. This is probably the first time this
has happened in Patrick Mahomes's career. We're looking at two straight
games where Patrick Mahomes has been outplayed by the other
quarterback back to that Eagle Super bowlgainst Jon Hurts, and
Justin Herbert was the better quarterback in that game Friday

(21:04):
night in Brazil, that's probably never happened in Patrick Mahomes's career.
So kudos to this Chargers team, which is really good,
and kudos to Justin Herbert, who's obviously one of the
best quarterbacks in league. And everyone's talking about the Ravens, Chiefs, Bills,
this Chargers group is right there as a contender in
the AFC.

Speaker 5 (21:21):
I just want all those quotes about them being contenders
and how legitimate they are. Just want those firmly on
the record for when we're having this conversation come playoff
time and the narrative shifts too. All these guys let
down Justin Herbert that he doesn't have enough around him.
You're right, Justin Herbert was excellent Friday night that that
was one of the better games of his career. I
will lost a note that was the Chiefs preseason matchup

(21:41):
there that this is a Kansas City. Does that mean
it means Kansas City does not wake up until midway
through the season, that they are.

Speaker 2 (21:47):
Fifteen to one last year.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (21:50):
Sure that is not gonna be the verge of the
Chiefs that we see when this season hits its prime
time here, I'm impressed with Justin Herbert. I'll give him
the tip of that. He was excellent Friday night. He
read the defense perfectly, He took exactly what they gave
him execute on each of those throws. Those one of
the better games I think of his entire career here
that run to close things out. I think it was
a big boy play from him, and that's kind of

(22:12):
stuff that I need to see that him reading the
defense correctly, finding it taking things on. I think it
was notable that he I felt intentionally was much more
mobile with his legs and trying to use that as
an asset. There is a big year for Justin Herbert
that he has to find a way to put together.
It's a next on way to start it there. So
I'm not ready to eat all my words just.

Speaker 4 (22:29):
Yet, but he certainly had a great start to the year.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
I sent a different tone for me though, I'm not
gonna lie.

Speaker 5 (22:35):
I mean, yeah, I have to take it on jes
a little bit here that I've talked to a ton
of crap on this dude and he delivered on Friday
night that he looked great. I'm still gonna stand ten
too's down on my take that I think I know
who the true Justin Herbert is and I think he
will find himself out there to the season. We just
talked glowingly about Daniel Jones for ten minutes on here.
You know, I could make a case right now that

(22:56):
Daniel Jones was more impressive than Justin Herbert.

Speaker 4 (22:58):
I'll look at the competition.

Speaker 5 (22:59):
Look competition, well, yeah, we'll see how that ultimately plays
itself out. But my point being here, it is one game.
It is one week. I'm not gonna get out of
control with the takeaways. But I do got away that
Justin Herbert look great on Friday night.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
I don't think you accounted for the Madison beer bump.
That's where your mistake came in.

Speaker 5 (23:16):
That is the spin zone that I'm gonna kind of
lean on here fast year. Maybe there is something too,
you know, you get a solid woman in your life,
like Justin Herbert now seemingly has that that gets him
on the right track. He's got his head straight. So
we'll see once again week one. Not getting out of control.
I saw he brought his offensive lineman out on a
date with her, which I think is one of the
more I can't decide if I think it's a football

(23:37):
guy move or like an insane move right there, but
nonetheless for a monitoring situation.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
But that that pictures going viral. I'm sure his offensive
lineman also had a girl with him too. I don't
think it was just them three when he was running
third wheels protection, Maybe he was that you never know.

Speaker 4 (23:52):
Yeah, first charge of quarterbacks and bring protection to a
date man.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah, good, good for him. Here's what I'll say, though,
I'll flip the charge. So you're not concerned at all
about the Chiefs because this Chiefs offense we kind of
know what it's been throughout the regular season the last
couple of years. Is they've been an average offense the
last two seasons. They just have like Patrick Mahomes hasn't
been this otherworldly quarterback in the regular season, and their
offense hasn't been great. It's been their defense. It's been

(24:17):
around top five in the league the last two years.
And then the playoffs coming. We know how great Patrick
Mahomes is and his clutchness and all that. You're not
concerned all about this Chiefs team because Travis Kelsey's obviously old.
Even on that touchdown run, he looked really slow, like
he's just not the factor that he once was. His
improvisation skills, all that where him and Mahomes are always

(24:37):
on the same pages. None of that is there anymore.
So we know what Travis Kelsey's decline has been. Examvier
Worthy obviously goes out because he gets popped from Kelsey
earlier in that game where she Rice is gonna miss
the first six games due to suspension. When he's back,
things could be very different. But this chart, this Chiefs
offense isn't great, but that's fine. Chiefs defense has been

(24:57):
one of the best in the league. Last couple of seasons.
It really struggled, and that was the concern for me,
is how much its struggled against a really good quarterback
and a really good offense. I think with Quentin Johnson
and Key Allen. Of course that McConkie, all those guys
where Justin Herbert has a real receiving corps. But you
not concern at all about this Chiefs team. And what
I mean my concern is are they definitely gonna win
the division? We know they'll be in the playoffs, we
know they'll be in the picture as long as they've

(25:18):
Patrick Mahomes. But I think the Chargers are winning this
division this year.

Speaker 5 (25:22):
And by the way, I note the Broncos and Raiders
both also picking up Week one wins, so like it's
gonna be competitive across the board, and that it's gonna
be one of the tougher divisions in the entire NFL.
I get it's easier said than done. It is frustrated
to me that I feel like the Chiefs roster construction
is such built upon Patrick Mahomes is gonna bail us out. Like, yes,
I understand, you're paying for Chris Jones, and you're paying

(25:43):
Travis Kelsey, and there's other guys that are getting these
like high value contracts here along with Mahomes himself, who's
you know, making quite a pretty petty there. But I
do feel like that they've sort of let Mahomes down
in a way I have not given him the proper
pieces around him that like, even the guys that we're
speaking about, like Rashie Rice, Hollywood Brown, Xavier Worthy, these
are guys that are fine. These aren't guys that, like

(26:04):
opposing defensive coordinators, are up at night worried about. And
I do think it's a disservice to Mahomes correctly that yes,
he can elevate guys around him in a way that
very few quarterbacks are ever capable of.

Speaker 4 (26:14):
I don't think he should have to do that that.

Speaker 5 (26:16):
I think the focus should be on, how do we
pair this guy with the legitimate wide receiver one. How
can we find his version of Randy Moss or AJ
Brown or whatever the case may be.

Speaker 4 (26:25):
It would be very funny.

Speaker 5 (26:26):
And I do want to throw this out here right now,
the Tyreek Hill trade request. Man, when that comes into play,
could we get a return to Kansas City?

Speaker 2 (26:33):
That's only the cap space for it. Yeah, that's a
huge contract that they've taken on that. Where you're going
to shed shed cap on that?

Speaker 4 (26:41):
Yeah, I don't have the answer to that.

Speaker 5 (26:43):
It may be completely impossible, but that thought they'd cross
my mind while sitting there watching. I guess my overall
answer to you is there is a little bit of
panic in me that I think they've gotten far too
comfortable with. Though if we got Patrick Mahomes, we're gonna
have a chance, which is true, but you're not exactly
putting him in the best spot to maximize your out
three there.

Speaker 2 (27:01):
What was really concerned to me, and goes back to
the Super Bowl, was the Chargers defensive line was getting
to Patrick Mahomes. It felt like almost every snap, Yeah,
and he was running for his life. They had a
ton of pressures on the Homes. That was the biggest
problem with the Super Bowl. We know that that's why
the Eagles won the Super Bowl more than any other reason.
Is their pass rush demolished the Chiefs offensive line and
they were getting to Patrick Mahomes, forcing pressures and forcing

(27:23):
turnovers from Mahomes because of it. And you saw that again.
And the Chiefs invest in the offensive line. I mean,
they got Josh Simmons, this rookie who they used first round, Kapalon,
who they were really high on. But again, he's left tackle.
He's that was his first NFL start. He's gonna come
on as the ear goes on, hopefully if you're the Chiefs.
But this offensive line still did not look great. And

(27:44):
that's the scariest part for me because obviously that was
the reason the Chiefs didn't win the Super Bowl last year.

Speaker 5 (27:49):
Yeah, No, one hundred percent there, and I think that
they have not covered that up as well as they
need to there. I'm not ready to close the door
on the Chiefs window, but I do think you've got
a little bit too comfortable with just the assumption that
we're going to be there. The rest of the NFL
continually gets better. Man, that nobody is waiting around and
watching you. Every team is putting in the work themselves
and find their own pathway. So my paddoic meter is

(28:11):
increase on the Chiefs. I'm not ready to completely be
there just yet.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
Yeah, I'm with you, Like I don't think I said
it before the year. The super Bowl hangover, going to
three stay super Bowls is exhausting, and I don't and
the AFC is just so good, so many great quarterbacks.
So I don't think they're going to the super Bowl
this year and I don't even think they're winning the
division this year. But am I worried about them long term?
Not really. I mean, even we look at the Patriots dynasty,
they had two separate legs of their dynasties. I mean

(28:35):
they the mid early to mid two thousands, and then
like the late two thousands to early twenty tens, they
went ten years without a super Bowl, and then they
come back to twenty fifteen have the second leg of
their dynasty when they win three more super Bowls. You know,
Andy Reid wouldn't be there for a potential second leg
of a dynasty and the Chiefs aren't falling off the
face of the earth. I'm not overreacting like that unless

(28:57):
some major injury happens, but still, like, I just don't
think this is the year that the Chiefs are going
to dominate the AFC and just rip off wins and
win all these close games like we saw that last year,
and we.

Speaker 5 (29:07):
Forget how unprecedented is the success that Mahomes has had
that like historically, it is way more in line with
what happens that you fail a ton of times before
you were able to climb that mountain top. He sort
of skipped the line in that conversation. So I do
wonder if we're going to get a couple of these
seasons before they fully retool. I do think that there
will be another like era of Mahomes where he's going
to several super Bowls in a row, winning a couple,

(29:29):
and who knows, maybe that just continues.

Speaker 4 (29:30):
That could very well be this year.

Speaker 5 (29:32):
Still, I'm not writing this team off, but it wouldn't
shock me if like the next two three seasons are
a Kansas City chief step back and then all of
a sudden they're retooled with this next part of the
dynasty here, but all too early to fully believe that
or buying too that to this point right now, we
just know their own to one in the twenty twenty
five NFL season.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Let's keep a moving to worst win. So how A
would categories categorize this as really a team that won
on Sundays start out the season one TOZ but was
an ugly win. You know, maybe they played a bad seam,
whatever you want to classify it, but it was an
ugly win that they're not exactly ecstatic after that win.
Who is your worst win of the weekend?

Speaker 4 (30:08):
Yeah, this is a pretty obvious answer for me.

Speaker 5 (30:09):
I think it's the Cincinnati Bengals here that they beat
the Cleveland Brown seventeen sixteen. This was a Bengals team
that I needed to see come out of the shoot hot.
And we know that the slow starts of the season
have really plagued him. They've missed the playoffs and back
to back years that even while playing incredible football during
the stretch of last season, they dug themselves a whole
too deep for them to climb out of. I wanted
to see focus right from week one, and that was

(30:31):
not the team that we did see. It still looks
like they have some issues on the defensive side of
the ball that Joe Flacca picked that team apart for
some stretches of that game right there. If it were
not for a missed extra point, we very well could
be talking about a very different tune to this ultimately
and a miss field goal with a chance to get
the win in there.

Speaker 4 (30:48):
So the Bengals got the job done they.

Speaker 5 (30:50):
Are want to know in the standings, but I was
very discouraged by how they actually looked on the field yesterday.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Huge why I'm not going with the Bengals. They won
the game. That's rare for them to do in Week one,
Like they don't win games in Week one, they just don't.
Everyone thought it was going to be another colossal loss
in Week one because Browns really should have won that game.
They miss an extra point, they missed a field goal,
a lot of kicking woes that held them back. So

(31:15):
that's why I'm not that disappointing the Bengals because they
only gave up fourteen points. Like their defense didn't look
good for stretches Brown it didn't. Yeah, but it didn't.
It didn't wasn't like awful for most of the game.
I thought the bigger problem to me was their offense.
I mean, Joe Burrow only threw for one hundred and
thirteen yards and they they had like, what was it,
less than twenty yards in the fourth quarter. They couldn't

(31:37):
move the ball. And the reason why I'm not concerned
about that is because it's Joe Burrow's offense with t
Higgins and Jamar Chase. I'm not worried about this offense reception. Yeah,
we know this is a team under Joe Burrow that
starts out seasons slow. In the past though, they start
out seasons slow and they lose all those games in
an zero to two hole or one in three hole,

(31:58):
and they have an uphill battle to make the playoffs
if you're winning these games. And Joe Burrow said after
the game last year, he said, yeah, that was ugly,
but in the past years those are games that we've
usually lost. So the fact that you can just get
the one to oh and get those wins on the
on your resume early, but without having to rip off
all these wins late in the season, because you start
out the season with all these losses, they'll be fine.

(32:19):
They'll get better as the year goes on. Their offense
is not a concern to me, and that's what was
the worst part of the beings. I say it was
their offense. So I'm not really that worried about them.
So I get it. They definitely didn't look good, but
I'm not worried about them long term.

Speaker 5 (32:31):
I think overall you're right, and I do mostly like
think that way that like, you know, as long as
you find a way to win, that is, at the
end of the day, what matters. I just really had
talked myself into it and wanted to see right from
week one like a different version of Cincinnati, like a
foot on the gas. Right from week one of this
season is different. We're not allowing ourselves to fall in
that hole. Yes, they found a way to get a win,
but that was not my vibe of what they looked

(32:52):
like whatsoever.

Speaker 4 (32:52):
They didn't look prepared.

Speaker 5 (32:53):
This was a team that played in preseason more than
I believe any other NFL team to make sure they
could have a clean Week one start. It just did
not translate to the field there and that was a
concern to me. So I'm not panicked about their overall outlook,
but pretty discouraged by what they looked like in Riekwad.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Now I'm with you, it's disappointing from the standpoint of
they've talked about all off season about getting off to
a good start this season. That's You're right that Joe
Burrow and the first first team offense played first quarter
of the first preseason game against the Eagles, and then
they played the first couple of drives in the second
preseason game, so they got preseason reps to avoid a
slow start to the season, and of course it didn't.

(33:28):
It didn't work for whatever reason. They just are a
team that starts out slow every single season. But again,
they got the win, so that's why I'm not that concerned.
My worst law worst win of the weekend was the Broncos,
who escaped with a win against the Titans, but didn't
look good at all. And I'm a big Bonicks guy.
I think Bonick is gonna be an awesome quarterback and
the Broncos are gonna be fine. But Bonick struggled with

(33:50):
two picks. One was really bad, one one was inexcusable,
and one was just a really tough interception. He put
the ball in kind of a questionable spot, but it
was a really tough interception that the under me another fumble,
So three total turnovers for Bonicks. It wasn't his best outing,
but I'm not concerned about him moving forward. The defense
is why I've been concerned about the Broncos this season
and why I don't have the Broncos in the playoffs

(34:10):
at all, because there's this defense that was considered the best,
one of the best in the league last year benefited
from a really awful schedule against some of the worst
quarterbacks in the league, and that's what they got yesterday.
They played a Kim Ward who was making his first
ever NFL start, who did not look good for Tennessee,
and he doesn't have a lot of help. Bad offensive
line but not a lot of weapons around him, So

(34:32):
they were playing another bad quarterback and they benefited from that.
I'm still not sold on this Broncos team at all,
and big reason is because of the defense. I just
don't trust this defense against good competition and against and
their schedule is really much harder this year. So I'm
not sold on this Broncos team. And really does the
defense and there's nothing they did in week one to
sell me.

Speaker 5 (34:52):
Yeah, A couple things on this first starter is the
Bonus conversation. The biggest thing that I'd be complimentary of
for Bonix from his rookiere is I thought he did
a really nice shops staying within his box, not trying
to do too much or go outside.

Speaker 4 (35:03):
That that did not look like the Bonecks that we
saw yesterday.

Speaker 5 (35:05):
That I did think he was trying to force things
a little bit, make that special play when sometimes you
just got to take the average or what the defense
gets you, and you will be punished about.

Speaker 4 (35:14):
You will be punished by that against better football teams.

Speaker 5 (35:17):
I would push back a little bit on the cam
Ward conversation that I walked away from yesterday impressed with
cam Ward. I think Tennessee needs to find way to
get him some weapons there. Even that final drive where
the Tennessee trailing by eight, cam wore ball in his hands.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
He threw three straight dimes of.

Speaker 5 (35:32):
Passes, particularly the second and third down play right there
that just right off the receiver's hands. You got to
give him somebody man, Calvin Ridley not cutting it like
the options that they have at wide receiver are just
not quite good enough. I thought cam Ward to me
was impressive yesterday. I'm in agreement that, like the Broncos
did not play clean. I thought their defense still made
a relatively solid impact there. They got a lot to

(35:53):
clean up. I'm not panicking there. But Tennessee, I think
I walked away from that specific matchup a bit more
impressed with Tennessee than I was worried about them.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Yeah. I mean everyone was accusing Next last year being
like a Chuck Down Charlie type. Yeah, and I think
his game can extend beyond that. But what we saw
yesterday was some of those longer throws ended up in interceptions,
and it kind of felt like Sean Payton limited the playbook,
went back to making just quick reads, quick easy throws
for like four or five yards, screen slants, all that

(36:20):
stuff that Bo Nicks really excels at. And I think
Sean Payton did a good job of cleaning the playbook
up and limiting it in that second half. But again,
this Broncos schedule is just so tough. And maybe you're
right about the camboard stuff. I'll give you that. I
don't think I probably exaggerating when I said he was
really bad but this Titans team is just a really
bad team, and that's why the Broncos defense was able

(36:42):
to get stops against them. This Bronco schedule is really tough.
They got the Colts next week, Fine, we'll see what
the Colts really are. That'll be an interesting matchup, honestly.
Then they got the Chargers, Bengals, Eagles, Jets, Giants, Cowboys, Texans, Raiders, Chiefs,
Commanders to close out September October, and of him, that
is a really difficult schedule. That is not playing poor

(37:04):
quarterbacks like they did last year, where they played a
bunch of teams that were under five hundred, that weren't
playoff teams and some of the worst quarterbacks in league.
And that's why their defense, which is very similar personnel
wise from last year, was able to in terms of
their scoring output and defensive scoring and defensive yards allow
and all those stats, they were at the top of
the league because they played such bad quarterbacks. That's not
the case over the next two months. So we're gonna

(37:25):
find out a lot about this Broncos team, this Broncos defense,
But there was not a lot to be encouraged by
in Week one.

Speaker 5 (37:31):
And also by the way Sean Payton, dude, what are
we doing on some of this play call, including when
you have fourth I think they were at it would
have been like a forty eighth yard field goal. Might
it might have been even in the early fifties. They
went for it on fourth down and threw the ball
downfield with like a minute left in that game. They
gave cambod a chance to come back and win it.
And if he has better wide receivers, I do think

(37:52):
he does. And once again, there was all three of
the passes that he tried in that attempted like comeback,
like you know, drive there either he did his the
rechievers left him hanging. But I thought it was incredibly
stupid in the Broncos in the first place, for just
giving him a chance to that you could have buried
that game. And even if the thought process is if
we miss this field goal, we give him great field position,
then why are you throwing it thirty yards down the

(38:14):
field on that fourth and one?

Speaker 4 (38:15):
So that decision didn't make any sense to me.

Speaker 5 (38:17):
I was confused and like didn't get it at the time,
don't get it now, not even really sure what the
logic is with that go ahead.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
I didn't hate it because look, I mean, you throw
the ball down the field and ends up in an interception.
It's like, that's essentially a punk, right, Like if that
that's one reasoning. Another reasoning is you're giving the ball
back to ken Ward. It's not like given the ball
back to Patrick mahomes here. I think Champagne's logic and
reasoning is all right, cam Ward, go get a game

(38:45):
winning driving your first ever NFL start. Dude, try that,
And of course obviously it ended up working out. So
I think it's different logic and reasoning if you're playing
a really talented quarterback.

Speaker 5 (38:55):
Sure, I just think that you increase your risk in
a way that was completely unnecessary there. I even if you,
even if you want to go for it, which I
can kind of understand that thought process, like give yourself
a legitimate chance of picking up the first down. I
don't think they did that, like run it up the
gut or throw a little slant or whatever the case
may be. I thought it was a waste of a play,
and I think in general that I'm siding with you

(39:15):
kicked the ball right there?

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, no, no, that's fair. All right, Let's keep it
moving here, So we gave you our best win or
worst win of the weekend. Let's go to the worst
loss of the weekend, a team that you thought just
completely felt flat on their face and just was an
ugly loss, a lot to clean up after week one, Sean,
what is your worst loss of week one?

Speaker 5 (39:33):
My worst loss goes to my Carolina Panthers right here. Bryce,
you just expected something from them, then, yeah I did.
I You won't find a guy on the planet with
more Bryce Young stock than myself right here, and dip
in that stock price after week one. I gotta say,
it's disappointing that this has to be the year I
need something that you got tet who I thought looked
very good at wide receiver, the rookie making his debut

(39:55):
there That there is I believe something that this Panthers team,
to me, has to be confident this year. They did
not look the part in Week one whatsoever. Ultimately that
they did falls twenty six to ten to a Jaguars
team that I think just is not really that good.
I don't think Trevor Lawrence played particularly well nineteen of
thirty one for one hundred and seventy eight a touchdown
and to pick there well. Bryce Young even worse eighteen

(40:15):
of thirty five for one hundred and fifty four yards,
a touchdown and two interceptions. There a forty nine quarterback rating,
a twenty point one QBR there, It's got to be better.
I'm disappointed in Bryce Young and my I have no
choice for the hold the stock at this point. It's
feeling pretty uncomfortable here in Bryce Young territory.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
Yeah, when he was great last year down the stretch
and people start getting encouraged after he came back from
that benching. His number one toy was Adam Thielen.

Speaker 4 (40:40):
Yeah, that was his guy.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
And when they treated him earlier this offseason or which yes.

Speaker 5 (40:46):
By the way, I still don't understand why they did that.
It felt like they were doing the guy a favor,
like sending back to Minnesota. But you know, you're in
the business of being a good football team, Like, what
is the appeal to Carolina to do that.

Speaker 4 (40:56):
It didn't make sense to be the time. It looked
even worse after Week one.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
Yeah, I don't get it, Like that was ry Jung's
top target and now you're getting you're this is a
huge year for Bryce Hung. I mean, you're deciding whether
this guy is your future or not this season, and
you're getting rid of his number one target when he
started playing well at the end of last season. I
didn't get it. It looked like the Bryce sung at
the beginning of the season before his benching last year.
He was not good. On the flip side, Trevor Lawrence
didn't even looked that good either. It was a Jaguars
defense that came up, and I'd like this Jaguars team.

(41:21):
I think the Jaguars seemed to compete for a playoff spot.
I like Liam Cohen, but Trevor Lawrence did not look
as great as you would expect. Because this is another huge,
another guy that's a huge year four where we're gonna decide,
we're gonna figure out a lot about him, Trevor Lawrence,
and that Draguars offense was not great. I'm not concerned necessarily,
but I didn't think. I wasn't overly impressed with the
Jaguars as much as I was disappointed with the Panthers.

Speaker 5 (41:42):
After throughout this take in the Gamble group chat yesterday
and didn't get a lot of reaction to it.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
Here.

Speaker 5 (41:47):
What do you think about Trevor Lawrence is the Kyle
Pitts of quarterbacks. Here feels like every year it's this
is gonna be the season that he's gonna break out.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
That the talent is there. You can see it.

Speaker 5 (41:56):
It never has it has yet to happen for Trevor Lawrence.
The Yes, there's been flashes there. I think that's a
pretty fair cop.

Speaker 2 (42:03):
Yeah, I don't hate it. I mean he did show
three years ago when the Jaguars made the playoffs and
they won that playoff game. He was really good that year.

Speaker 4 (42:11):
Could they be again?

Speaker 2 (42:12):
I forget the Chargers. They'd be the Chargers when I
believe they were down like twenty eight zero was it
twenty seven zero? They were down there, and the Jaguars
came back and beat the Chargers, and Trevor Lawrence had
a great season that year. He did like that. That's
when everyone was like, all right, this is the number
one pick that everyone expected and people were hyping up
as this generational prospect. So I so we've seen a
full season of it. It hasn't been just like three

(42:33):
or four game samples. So I still believe in Trevor Lawrence.
But you're right where it's every year people are expecting
more and more. He's also dealt with a ton of
coaching turnover, play callers turnover, Like it's he's had to
learning win Super Bowl the case true, but also some
quarterbacks like that have the best offensive line sick on Barkley,
the best receiving corps, on and on and on, but

(42:54):
and the best GM in the league. Whatever. But but
so so yeah, I mean there's been a lot of turnover,
not to make excuse for which Lawrence like, this is
a huge year for me. But let me give you
my worst loss. It's the Detroit Lions who are hitting
the plague that the Eagles hit a couple of years ago.
And it took a little while for the Eagles to
actually feel the effects of this plague. It's way harder

(43:16):
than people realize to replace two coordinators. Plague. Yeah, like
it really is, and a lot of people don't realize
it because they think it's just And everyone's talked about
Ben Johnson and his move to Detroit and how that
would affect Jared Goff, But it was both sides of
the ball. Aaron Glenn also moved on and that Packers
team destroyed the Lions. That was a division rivalry game.

(43:36):
And the Packers. That was like in terms of their
physical make up. That Packer's offensive line dominated the Lions
defensive line. The Packers defensive line dominated. The defensive line
got to or off. The Lions offensive line got to
Jared Goff. Every twist and turn Jared Goff really struggled,
pressured him to oblivion. It wasn't even Michael Parsons that much.
Michael Parsons played limited snaps. He had his moments for sure.

(44:00):
This entire Packers defense. And I love Jordan Love. I
think he's an MVP cannon. He's the big reason why
I think the Packers are gonna be in the Super
Bowl win the NFC this year. But I was more
impressed by the Packers' defense. And I think this is
a serious concern for the Lions. Where Jared Golf doesn't
have his play caller anymore, Aaron Glenn's out, It's gonna
take some time for everyone to get used to these

(44:20):
new coordinators being in the building. And when we see
this it usually ends up in not great results the
next season. Doesn't mean the Lions are gonna be bad
or miss the playoffs or anything, but when we see
two coordinators replaced, there's usually not the same level of
success and continuity within each group, the offense and the defense,
and that's what we're seeing from the Lions. And are

(44:40):
you like concerned about Jared Golf at all without Ben
Johnson because he did not look good.

Speaker 5 (44:45):
I am a little bit concerned, I think, But I
do think there's a non zero chance where like the
Lions completely tank this year under the outside looking at
it from a playoff perspective, and I do think it
could potentially get that bad if things work out. That
was a convincing victory by the Green Bay Packers, that
was we are outside of the Eagles. I think the
Packers are very clearly the biggest threat in the NFC,
and like I think we all sort of had talked

(45:06):
ourselves into that a little bit as the offseason went on.
I think that is pretty clear, Like when you look
around the rest of the conference, they're the only team
that looked that competitive, that confident, and that legitimate as
far as a threat right there. I do think I
probably walked away from yesterday saying that said a little
bit more about the Packers than it did about the Lions.
But I do think Dan Campbell is the type of
coach that is at his best when he is more

(45:26):
of the CEO type that he is deferring, allowing others
to take care of their respective units on offense and defense,
and the same way the Nick Sirianni is here in Philadelphia.
So I do think Detroit is headed for a pretty
significant step back this year. I'm not confident that they
fully get the train back on the tracks here. I
don't think they're going to be a disaster, that they'll
win a handfull of games, but yet not a good
start to the season, and I do think that it

(45:47):
is going to get worse from here.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Yeah, I'm with you on all that. You're probably right
where it's such a tough division, Like even if the
Vikings are in the mix and that division and the
Bears too, the Lions could slip out of the playoffs
in the NFC North. So we'll see. But it's gonna
take some time for the continuity to hit in between
Jared Golf and the new OC and all those coordinator changed.

(46:10):
So we'll see what's going on in Detroit. Let's keep
it moving here. Let's go to the best loss of
the weekend. We probably have the same team here as
everyone does, and it was probably the game of the
one o'clock slate. There was a couple of good ones.
Bucks Falcons was in there too, but this was probably
the game of the one o'clock slate. And I'm glad
we're about to talk about it, assuming you're gonna say
this team. If not, we could go in different direction.

(46:31):
But what was the best loss of the weekend in
your mind?

Speaker 4 (46:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (46:34):
I had two that I was really torn with. I
believe what you're referring to is the Jets. Jets right here,
what your mind is? Yeah, I thought Justin Fields was incredible.

Speaker 4 (46:42):
Man.

Speaker 5 (46:42):
One of my stocks went up this week. I got
plenty of Justin Field stock as well, So I shout
out at him.

Speaker 4 (46:47):
For prove me right beyond.

Speaker 5 (46:48):
Just like with his legs, which I think we all expected,
he was slaying the football man, fitting in some tight windows.
And I do think that team played with a direct
identity that Aaron Glenn for Although we just talked about
what was missing from the Detroit Lions, guess what we
found it up in New York, because that's what it
felt like to me. That felt like some old Detroit
Lions football. So we're gonna be physical, We're going to
be compete. It's a real bomber than the Steelers did

(47:08):
come out win that one. I think that was as
Steelers but victor as you're sort of gonna get there.
Got Rogers look good on the other side of the ball,
which I did not expect. I think finishing the game
with just that Jalen Ramsey just delivering the hit to
break up in completion there, that's like the way that
you want to win it. From a Steelers' perspective, I
thought it was an awesome game all around. I'm very
encouraged by what I saw from both teams right there.
I'm not worried about the Jets whatsoever, and I think,

(47:30):
if anything, feel better about them after Week one, even
though it did end up with a loss.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yeah, I'm not sold on the Jets. I'm just gonna
be honest. And I do want to flip this and
talk about the Steelers more because I was really impressed
with the Steelers. But I'm not sold on the Jets.
And when we do overreact to Week one and we
two in the first month of the season, let's just
remember that the Saints started out two and o last year.

Speaker 4 (47:51):
Yeah, but we knew, like I don't think we did.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
We know that we start out to and oh, that
they were averaging like thirty plus points a game. Derek
Carr was the guy. Do we know?

Speaker 5 (48:00):
I felt like I knew last year and I think
the Steelers team we watched the Steelers team go like
six to o that this was probably four or five
years ago that I remember every week being like, this
is the worst.

Speaker 2 (48:08):
Time and they started ten and oh, actually was it
ten and oh?

Speaker 4 (48:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (48:13):
What I remember about that season specifically is every week
they want I went, this is the worst four oh
team I've ever seen, This worth five and oh team,
this worst six and oh team. You're right, but I
think like there is a general pulse, so you can
feel it whether it's real or not.

Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yes, but like after one or two weeks, it's harder.
I'm just like, like, the Jets running game is really good,
and that's the recipe for justin field. It's kind of
that similar Eagles just Jalen Hurts model, where it's like
you're gonna rely on a good offensive line. The Jets
offensive line looked good yesterday at a very great running
game with two backs. Really what they were implementing, and
Justin Field is also capable of adding to that running

(48:48):
game with his legs, kind of what you see with
Saquon Barkley and Jalen Hurts. So this Jets running game
is really good. I'm just not sold on just the
Fields because he zip the ball really well. Yes day,
you're right, but that seems a little flukey to me,
and I was a little I was under impressed with
the Steelers defense. Justin Fields is not a guy we've
seen and there's a lot of sample size out there

(49:08):
about him. Guy you've seen be able to consistently throw
the football like that he threw really why I actually
he zipped the ball. He was completing a ton of
his passes with good accuracy, honestly, but he's not a
guy that you've seen that for most of his career.
So I'm not completely sold on this Jets team. After
starting zero to one and scoring thirty two points, I'm
not like, oh my god, this Jets team is going

(49:28):
to compete in the division.

Speaker 4 (49:29):
Now.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
They'll be fine. They probably won't be as bad as
I thought they would be, But their defense struggled, Like
their defense really struggled, and that was supposed to be
the strength of this team. Are they going to clean
that up? Is Justin Field's going to continue this trajectory
in turner's career around on it? What third team it is? Now?
Maybe I don't see that happening for Justin Fields. And
I know you and Mark are big Justin Fields guys,

(49:51):
and you guys have owned stock for a long time.
I'm still holding. But before investors start investing in the
Justin Field stock because it is that all time high
right now, I just see it dip a little bit
more before you even think about it, because I'm just
not sold on Justin Fields being this turnaround story for
the Jets. See.

Speaker 5 (50:09):
I pushed back on the notion of we have had
a legitimate sample size, like he played three years for
the Bears and was directly set up to fail because
they got the number one pick and they got the
one of Caleb Williams. I'd even go as far as
to say, if we're going to make the bet right
now for Caleb Williams versus Justin Fields for the rest
of their career, I'm taking Justin Fields in that debate
and like.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
Right now the rest of their career correct.

Speaker 4 (50:30):
I went Justin Fields over Williams.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
With Ben Johnson, as with Ben Jonson, We're about to
find out tonight with Ben Johnson as play caller.

Speaker 5 (50:38):
What have you seen from Caleb Williams that remotely convinces
you more than you.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
You just blame Justin Fields's Bears tenure on a disastrous situation. Correct,
Caleb Williams was dealing with a disastrous situation last year
with Matt Eberflus and that entire staff and that organization
in Chicago. He has a completely different team, play caller, culture,
everything now. So yeah, you will find out this season.
But I'm not losing last year as some indication that

(51:03):
Caleb Williams is some bust.

Speaker 5 (51:05):
I think it's unfair to like fully hold last year
against Caleb Williams, but I certainly wasn't encouraged by what
I saw from him.

Speaker 4 (51:10):
The thing that I do respect.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
Is the dude got up and continue to compete from
start to finish when getting the crap kicked out of him.
And I do respect that about Caleb Williams. But my
point here is more so about Justin Gills has never
had the opportunity to flourish like Pittsburgh last year started
six games. The Steelers were four and two when he
was benched for Russell Wilson last year. Average one hundred
and eighty five passing yards per game looked pretty solid.
Threw for three hundred and fifteen yards in a matchup

(51:32):
last year. He threw for two hundred and twelve and
had three total touchdowns. Yesterday and again he was been
in windows. Man, This was not fluff screen pass, rollout
type quarterback.

Speaker 4 (51:41):
This was real deal. They put stuff on his plate
and he ate it up and delivered. Man. I like
Justin Fields.

Speaker 5 (51:46):
I do think that there's something there, and I think
this is the first time in his entire career where
it's an actual organization investing back in.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
I will give you that he fit the ball in
a lot of tight windows yesterday and that was impressive.
He was always going to get bunched for Russell Wilson
last year, but it's not like they were. The Steelers
were winning because of him. Like if he was playing
out of his mind, the Steelers would have had to
kept going with him. They weren't winning because of Justin Fields.

Speaker 4 (52:09):
He ate it hard though, man like, he did not
like it wasn't he.

Speaker 2 (52:12):
Wasn't bad by any means, but they were winning because
of that defense. We all know that the quarterback played.

Speaker 4 (52:18):
They didn't win games because of Ross either.

Speaker 2 (52:19):
Yeah I'm not saying they did, but Russell Wilson was
always just going to start in that situation. They weren't
winning games all year because of the quarterback. It was
the defense which led them to the playoffs last year.
And we'll talk about the Steelers in a second, but
like it's for me, it's just with Justin Fields that
sample sizes there where he can be a good quarterback,
but he has to be a really low volume passer,
which the Jets do have the formula for that with

(52:41):
a great running game and a good offensive line. It
looked like yesterday, so they have the formula for that.
He has to be a low volume passer. Though, I
just don't think that Justin Fields is gonna be the
guy that like turns he's the answer at quarterback. Now,
he's going to turn your fortune around as a franchise.
I mean, every quarterback that's gone to the Jets over
the last i don't know, over a decade at this
point has has been set up for failure and merit.
Maybe it's a different culture than Aaron Glenn's building. I'm

(53:03):
not buying it. After one week though, a game they lost,
by the way, they're still zero to one. I'm not
buying you.

Speaker 5 (53:09):
You think the Jets have a worse track record than
the Chicago Bears?

Speaker 4 (53:12):
Where going to have that? Overall conversation, it's pretty close. Yeah,
that's that's my point.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
It's like they're equally as awful organizations in terms of
quarterback development.

Speaker 5 (53:21):
I I'm trying to think of a way to set
up this wager, but yeah, I'm in on Justin Fields,
never Caleb Williams for the rest of their careers.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
Yeah. I think that's crazy. I think that's crazy. I mean,
I mean, look like, forget the talent for a second,
look at the situation Caleb Williams is now dealing with
compared to Justin Fields and the the play card that
Ben Johnson has, who's considered one of the best offensive
minds in the league, Like that is.

Speaker 5 (53:47):
How many tenths of a second do you think he'll
get before he has to throw the ball?

Speaker 4 (53:50):
Is sh here?

Speaker 2 (53:50):
I mean, they shore up the they shored up the
offensive line and the off ski will see if that
they reap those rewards tonight. But based on their their
their signings, and their drafts, they definitely prioritized offensive line.
There's no doubt about that.

Speaker 4 (54:04):
For what it's worth.

Speaker 5 (54:05):
Like when it was the time when the Bears had
the number one pick where they were going to draft
Kleb Williams, what I would have done if I was
a general manager, and you can check with Mark Henry Junior,
because I was hammering the table for this on the show,
I would have drafted Marvin Harrison Jr. And I would
have paired him with justin Fields, and I think the
Bears would be in a better spot as an organization.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Marvin Harrison Jr. Had a great game yesterday, but he
didn't have some rookie season where he was this otherworldly
wide receiver that you should write home about.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
Colin Murray, we can do.

Speaker 2 (54:31):
I don't think. I don't think Cayla Williams is like
gonna be some superstar. I think he's gonna be a
very good quarterback and the Bears are gonna be a
good team this year.

Speaker 5 (54:39):
We'll say I think that we have far more evidence
to suggest why we should be selling Caleb Williams stocked
and buying right now.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
But all we do is talk about situation. We just talked
about with Daniel Jones, awful situation in New York, bad organization.
He goes to a new team, but it's also a
new play caller and a new system and everything. That's
what Kayler Williams is getting this season. He's getting a
new system, a new play caller, and they did things
to help surround him with weapons, with a better offensive line,
all that to make it an easy situation. With Caleb Williams,

(55:07):
he dealt with disastrous situation last year. He just did,
and it was it was on the Bears organization where
they had a lame duck coach at the whole entire season,
and that's a disservice to Caleb Williams. They don't have
that this year. As far as I'm concerned, this is
Caleb Williams rookie season. I think that's how everyone should
be viewing it. This is his rookie season. And he
wasn't like all you're actually like he was god awful

(55:27):
last year, Like he wasn't good, but I would say
it was like mediocre. Def definitely didn't live up the expectations,
but he was like fine, given the circumstance.

Speaker 4 (55:36):
Uh did you read any of that, Caleb Williams.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Yeah, I did, I did, I did. I mean to
me that was all Those sources are obviously from guys
who were fired who aren't with the Bears organization anymore. Like,
what are those guys gonna set like?

Speaker 4 (55:51):
I don't know. I don't know what to make of it.

Speaker 5 (55:52):
I do think that is, for sure a piece that
was written with a clear intention or a direction sent
with of what the message and what they're trying to
get off there. I also don't think it's nothing like
I don't know. I'm not one hundred percent locked in
that Caleb Williams does the other side of the quarterback
things though, off the not just directly playing football, the
other side of quarterback duties. I'm not sold that Kayla

(56:14):
Williams has that.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
Yeah, you could be right. I mean, you could be right.
And I think the biggest indicators if if a quarterback
is going to be successful is the simple question do
you love football? And a lot of guys say they do,
but they don't.

Speaker 4 (56:24):
Actually, who's at his birthday party? I want to know?

Speaker 2 (56:28):
Caleb Williams. Yeah, was that part of the article.

Speaker 5 (56:30):
No, No, that was the throwback the draft day. The Yeah,
but I want to know who is at his birthday party.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
I don't know who they do that with Russell. Oh
is Russell Wilson recently? Like he had a birthday party
and nobody showed up. But we know what Russell Wilson is.
That's conversation for later. Let's keep it. Oh no, no, Before
we can get off this, I want to talk about
the other team that the Jets played, and that's the
Pittsburgh Steelers, who I've been impressed with. You know, I've

(56:59):
picked them to win the division. Obviously that was a
long shot pick, but I do think the Steelers team
is really good and capable of winning a playoff game.
And part of it is because I can't quit Aaron Rodgers.
I just can't quit Aaron Rodgers. He's been my favorite.
He's not the best quarterback I've ever seen, but he's
been my favorite quarterback to watch growing up my entire life.
The way he throws the football. He is and I

(57:20):
think it was Tom Brady has said it recently. He
said Aaron Rodgers is a better passer than me. Doesn't
mean he's a better quarterback, because that encompasses a lot, but
Aaron Rodgers, he said, was a better passer than him.
He's been my favorite guy to watch other football, and
we saw some encouraging stuff late in last season with
the Jets and his mobility. I was impressed with how
he moved yesterday, like his rollouts and obviously the Steelers

(57:42):
designed this type of stuff for him, but his rollouts
and how he was able to deliver the ball with
zip like he always did his entire careers. Armtown is
unquestionably still there. He was the first Steelers quarterback to
throw four touchdown passes since twenty twenty. That was a big,
big ben. So it's been a long time since the
Steelers have had competent quarterback play. They only scored thirty

(58:03):
four points the Steelers that is once last season, or
excuse me, twice last season. They just did it in
Game one this year with Aaron Rodgers. So the defense
wasn't great against justin fields and there's questions about that
because that's supposed to be their strength. But again it
was week one. I think the Steels team is gonna
be really good, and I think Rodgers is back as
a you know, there's still some I don't know, like

(58:25):
mobility concerns. I guess you could call him, but I
think Aaron Rodgers and the Steelers team is back.

Speaker 5 (58:29):
Yeah, you know the old saying that quarterbacks don't typically
hit their prime till their mid fifties here, so we're
still getting there. For Aaron Rodgers, I'm not saying like
even way worse than this.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
I mean, he won an MVP four seasons ago, like
atrocious sense, Okay, he wasn't great. The next year in
his last year in Green Bay wasn't great.

Speaker 5 (58:49):
You know what he ranked? So he played all seventeen
games that year. You know what he ranked about quarterbacks
and QBR The year after the MVP season, No, what
are you ranked?

Speaker 4 (58:57):
Twenty seven?

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Yeah, it wasn't great. Like I said, he wasn't great.
But again, like that, that was a year a lot
like he probably knew his last year in Steels whatever,
I'm not gonna make excuses for him. He wasn't great.
Then you have the Achilles thing. So the next two years,
from as far as I'm concerned or washed, He's now
going to a team whereas has a great culture, a
great defense. Already this team has made the playoffs every
single season. He just needs to elevate the quarterback play

(59:19):
which has been so bad. And we saw with the
weapons that he has with DK Metcalf, I mean they
had no running game, as say, they obviously have to
establish a running game so Aaron Rodgers doesn't have to
throw the ball a million times a game. But they
have the weapons and Aaron Rodgers he can still throw
a beautiful ball like that. That's unquestionable. When he's sixty,
you'll be able to do that.

Speaker 5 (59:38):
Yeah, I'm not a Rogers guy. I do think he
gets a worse rep than he sometimes deserves. That Like
even his experience with the Jets, I do think he
genuinely tried to fit into that organization to be like
a New York quarterback, and the Achilles thing popped up
and then it was a disaster situation. Like I don't
think that was as like him trying to be a
cancer to the team or a distraction or anything like that.
I do think he bought it in a way that

(59:58):
he doesn't really get the credit. But nonetheless, it went
how it went.

Speaker 2 (01:00:03):
I so there's nothing, there's nothing from yesterday that gave
you hope about not just Rogers, but the entire Steelers
team moving forward.

Speaker 4 (01:00:09):
He impressed me.

Speaker 5 (01:00:10):
I just the run game was like non existent. Get
Katele Johnson the rock because I say, as a fantasy
owner and a guy who I do believe in him,
is the talent there. When you have Mike Tomlin, you
pencil him out in for nine wins year. That's just
how it goes. It can be Mason Rudolph throwing the quarterback.
It could be Anon Rodgers, it can be Ben Roethlisberger.
They're gonna be above five hundred game in a playoff team,
like we know that to be the case. Right there.

(01:00:32):
I don't see anything that like increases my optimism of
this team can like win in the playoffs just yet.

Speaker 4 (01:00:36):
But it is just week one. I mean, Rogers looked.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
You don't like you're not giving any credit to how
Rogers looked.

Speaker 5 (01:00:41):
He looked way better than I thought. I will admit
that he moved better than I thought. The arm was
still that the movement, I would say, is probably the
most notable thing to me.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Yeah, and then that was designed like he's always been best,
like rolling outside the pocket and making those like kind
of off balance throws in a way. Two hundred and
forty four yards, four touchdowns, one hundred and thirty six
passer rating. Like he played well and I was impressed
with his his movement coming back from now two years
removed from achilles injury, and he has, like dk necof
an incredible catch and run. He has the weapons where

(01:01:10):
I think this Pittsburgh Steels team is gonna be really good.
And I just I will always enjoy watching Aaron Rodgers
still the football always. I don't care about the all
field stuff whatever, that's his personality. All that's different. Him
throwing the football has always been one of my favorite
things to watch. I'm not gonna I'm gonna cherish some
moments we have and while they're still.

Speaker 5 (01:01:29):
Here, Yeah, I get that one last shot because I
almost went for this for the best loss the Atlanta
Falcons man Michael Pennix, Like that was a I'm a
franchise quarterback type of performance to start that down with
taking them down, driving to type the game on a
touchdown and a play that I still have no clue
how he stayed on his feet and that's after I
still kind of think he threw a tying touchdown to

(01:01:50):
Drake London that was ultimately called incomplete on the field.

Speaker 4 (01:01:53):
And upheld after review.

Speaker 5 (01:01:54):
There, he drove him down again with fifty nine seconds
on the clock, got the ball back, set young Way
qu up for a forty four yard field goal, and
he ultimately missed it to cost him the game there.
Really frustrating from a results standpoint there, but I could
not be more impressed with what I saw from Michael
Penix and really encouraged by the Falcons roll.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Yeah, that's definitely candidate for best loss. I have the
Falcons win that division. I'm not discouraged by that. Necessarily
it's a battle between them and the Bucks. But I
thought the Falcons were a better team for most of
that game. And you know, I mean they Young Huku
really screwed me because they were the last leg. But
we won't. We won't get into that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:26):
I was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
I was. I was very upset, and the Falcons had opportunities,
like even before that to kind of seal the game,
which of course they didn't. But still this Falcons team
was impressive because Michael Penicks Junior was great yesterday, and
I think he's a really good quarterback. He showed that
in his three or four starts last year, and that

(01:02:48):
that was evident yesterday. So I think the Falcon's gonna
be a threat. And I'm with you on that. We
touched on almost every game. Is there any overreact The
one we didn't was Giants Commanders keeping in the NFC East,
But is there anything from that? Caven want touch on
any overreactions you're buying, not buying, or anything else you
want to hit on.

Speaker 5 (01:03:06):
I got a couple more takes that I have jotted
down for the notes. Things I liked from this weekend.
Number one, kickoffs are back man kickoffs. They're everywhere.

Speaker 4 (01:03:13):
They rounded back cos people were really.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Critical of them last year. They were fun yesterday.

Speaker 5 (01:03:18):
Yeah No, it was like every kickoff they're pretty much
taking it back. So I thought that was a thing
I wanted to shout out things. I also liked the
NFC sucks. It just does across the board. Like I
after Thursday night, I felt like so many significant takes
where the Eagles are not good enough right now.

Speaker 4 (01:03:33):
They got to get better.

Speaker 5 (01:03:34):
I hope you watched the rest of the NFC play
on Sunday, because really, outside of the Packers, not a
single team impress mey.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
The Rams defense was awesome. Okay, the Rams defense was awesome,
and I'm not worried that much about the offense. Matt
Matt Stafford all that the Rams. It wasn't an ugly
it wasn't a pretty win, but they won ugly, which
you have to do sometimes, especially in Week one. The
Rams defense was really good. We know what that pass
rush is with Jared Verst. The Rams defense really impressed me.
That's the only team in the Nfc'll all.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
Set, Yeah, I'll give you that.

Speaker 5 (01:04:03):
I also note I've been I don't want to say
a skeptic of pookin Nakua, but I think that he
got thrown into an elite category a little quickly there.
He's unbelievable, man, he is real. They're one of the
top wide receivers in the NFL. So I'm willing to
now have that conversation have him in that category when
I was a little bit, uh, you know, not willing
to until this point. So shout ITTs, pooka Nakula another one.
I think this one will rattle a couple more feathers.

(01:04:24):
Tyrese Maxi coming out and proclaiming himself to be a
Cowboys fan. I support it. I think he took a
lot of heat right here. This is what I'll say.
I think it is way more or way less fraudulent
to be a kid that grew up in Dallas, that
grew up a Cowboys fans. I think it's way more
like real deal for him to stick with that team
than it would be to flip to their biggest rival
just because he plays in Philadelphia.

Speaker 4 (01:04:45):
You grew up a Cowboys fan. This is not something
you're trying to be different.

Speaker 5 (01:04:48):
And by the way, they suck right now, so you're
not even doing this as like a front running standpoint.
I support Tyrese MAXI supporting the Cowboys, even though they obviously.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Are people really upset by that, like I thought, I.

Speaker 5 (01:04:59):
Mean, it's Internet, so you're always gonna get people upset.
But I did see quite a few people.

Speaker 4 (01:05:02):
Going at show.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
If anything that shows his loyalty with that's how I feel,
be good. Yeah, it's I want to bring something up
now that you mentioned Tyrys Maxey, but that that's a
that's a good thing, that that that Tyres Maxey is
being loyal to his team. He's not just gonna flip
just because it's been in Philly for a few years.
It's not how it works. Even Jalen Brunston still diehard
Eagles fan and he's the king of New York. So

(01:05:23):
that's ridiculous if you're mad at that. I I didn't
know who I Show Speed was. I had no idea
until last week he took over the internet. I guess
because he was in Philly at the Eagles facility whatever.
But he also is with Paul George. And people were
really upset at Paul George. When I show Speed asked
Paul George, are you from Philly? And Paul George said,
hell Na. He was like, hell no, I'm not from Philly.

(01:05:48):
And then he asked them or he said like I
just play here or something. I think people were way
too upset about that, and I get it, like what
are you gonna do? Like people hate Paul George because
of the games played and the production and that's why
so anything Paul George now with old Pylon, But like
he said, I play here, that's a fact. He just
does play here. Like he's not from Philly. He's an
LA Guy's a West Coast guy. I don't think it

(01:06:09):
was a shot at like the city necessarily.

Speaker 4 (01:06:12):
The hell no did feel h it was a strong.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Hell, he was really.

Speaker 5 (01:06:16):
Yeah, I know he could have said it more gentle
or a softer I will. I will say that it's
not anything of my up in arms out. And I
don't even think Paul George has got like the full
Philly experience yet that he's still like settling into an extent.
He had a disaster of the year that he played
forty one games, there was no playoffs, like, that's when
he'll start to feel of like what Philly is about
right there. So, yeah, it's not anything that I was

(01:06:37):
up in arms about. But I did see that clip.
It was kind of funny to me, o, well.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
Lie, anything else from your likes or don't like I.

Speaker 5 (01:06:45):
Said the Mike Daniel thing. That's pretty much it for
my likes and dislike. Should we hit on the Kauhi
stuff real briefly? I got to pop off here relatively soon,
but wrap up?

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
Yeah, why stuff? So, I mean, of course, it's NFL
Week one, College Football Week two, and the NBA news
cycle just never stops. It never ever stops. It's the
driest time of the year before training camp opens pretty
soon about three weeks for most teams. September twenty fourth,
twenty fifth, around then, but there was some more notable
news when Pablo Torre did a great investigation and found

(01:07:19):
absolutely rules. Yeah, he's been he's been incredible with his
with finding these stories that we don't even know we
care about, but we care about. And he's one of
the best reporters in the game, one of the only
real people still doing like genuine journalism at this point.
But he in his investigation and report found that the

(01:07:39):
Clippers allegedly tried to circumvent the cap by signing when
they signed Kawhi Leonard back in not not the first time,
it was the second time to an extension in twenty
twenty one when he took less money allegedly, or this
isn't alleged. He was signed by this organization called Asper

(01:08:00):
what was it Aspiration Aspirations, which was a tree planting
company supposed to be this environmental company which ended up
being a fraudulent Ponzi scheme, and the co founder are
now pled guilty for fraud essentially.

Speaker 4 (01:08:14):
And that is fact, that is factual a port thing, Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Yeah, absolutely, And what what Clippers and Kawhi Leonard are
alleged to do is that they signed and Steve Bomber
was Steve Bomber, the Clipper's owner, was the main investor,
invested fifty million dollars into this company, and the Clippers
signed Paul George as one of like their marketing guys,
as someone who would endorse and promote the campaign. And

(01:08:38):
he was essentially paid twenty eight million dollars to not
do anything for the organization and no show. And so
there's a lot of speculation now and this is what
Pablo Tory is alleging, and this is what the NBA's
opened investigation that the Clippers just used that organization, which
Steve Bomber was the main investor for, as a way
to pay Kawhi Leonard more money to circumvent the cap

(01:09:01):
and eventually give Kawhi Leonard a smaller deal. So now
investigation is open. It's a fascinating store. There's so many
different storylines that we could dive into. The potential suspension
or punishment I should saund about suspension, but potential punishments
that are in store, and a lot of other things
about cap circunvention because let me just say the first

(01:09:21):
things first is that it's not unusual. In fact, it's
normal for teams to sign players and then their main
sponsors also those players sign sponsorship deals with them. That's normal,
million dollars not Yeah, that's a lot of money for sure,
seven million a year, but that's not the money. But
it's not on it's not unusual. The teams do that

(01:09:43):
all the time, like teams we like, like Cooper Flag
has a main sponsorship deal with one of the MAVs
main sponsors. That that's a normal thing. It's the fact
that this organization was a fraudulent company. And and the
question really is that Steve Balmer know the Khi was
getting paid this much? Was he involved with the payment
because he was a main investor of this company, and

(01:10:06):
that would be cap circumvention, that would be a drastic penalty.
And the only instance of this was Joe Smith around
twenty five years ago, where that was there was a
pay per trail that that was very evident that Joe
Smith and his organization was circummending the cap to sign him,
and that organization lost five first round picks. So let

(01:10:27):
me just with all those details, and we're missing some
because there's a lot to dive into, let me just
throw it to you with what are your reactions and
and what are you taking away from the story.

Speaker 5 (01:10:36):
Yeah, and the reason that this became public is because
the company did go bankrupt and that there's a direct
pay portrayal of those documents become public when that happens.

Speaker 4 (01:10:43):
And you can see the twenty eight million.

Speaker 5 (01:10:45):
Dollars going to the KL two organization with Kawhi Leonard
on the name there, So there is the direct We
know that the money was sent to Kawhi Leonard and
we know yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
Yes, but there's not any paper trail of Steve Baumer's involvement.

Speaker 5 (01:10:57):
True to an extent, I guess I'll say that I
find it logically impossible that Steve Balmer had no clue
of any of this, that Kawylern being paid more than
any other, more than Leonardo Dicapria, more than these like
a list celebrities in the mix. There there's something to
this now, granted, like we're gonna have to bookend a
lot of these takeaways until the investigation takes place. My

(01:11:19):
gut feeling is that the Clippers are very guilty in
this and that there needs to be like a significant punishment.

Speaker 4 (01:11:24):
With that said, I don't.

Speaker 5 (01:11:25):
Really know how you do that or execute that or
what is a fair way to do this? And by
the way, Steve Balmer, the sixth richest human being in
the world, man, like, he has the money, the funds
and the like the resources to make this go away
and basically beat the NBA. If that is the path
that this goes down.

Speaker 2 (01:11:43):
Yeah, so I'm with you that it's it's more likely
than not that Steve Bomber knew, just based logically on
everything we know. Like, even going back to this is
pretty noteworthy, going back to twenty fifteen where Steve Bomber,
he was a very new owner and that offseason, the
Clippers and the MAVs were in this free agency race

(01:12:03):
for DeAndre Jordan, and the Clippers signed DeAndre Jordan and
it came out that they actually like put a sponsorship
deal for a car dealership that the Clippers had on
the table as part of that deal, which you're not
allowed to do when you're signing a player. It's only
in terms of the cap for your actual basketball your
basketball job. You're not allowed to do that. And the
Clippers were fined for that. I figure it wasn't a

(01:12:24):
heft definer or anything, but Steve Ballman and the Clippers
were fine, So he's guilty of this in the past.
But why I would want to give him the benefit
the dows because he would have to be so dumb,
Like this is one of the richest guys in the world,
who we know is brilliant. And he did a sit
down interview Friday night, which was bizarre, bizarre to do
it Friday night with Ramona Shelburne, which is a disastrous interview.
I mean, he's just not like a good talker a

(01:12:46):
communicator in that regard. But Steve Balmer is a really
brilliant guy. That's how he's one of the richest guys
who's ever who's on this earth right now. He would
have to be so stupid to get fined almost a
decade ago for a very similar instance. Know that obviously
the NBA talked to him about it. Know that you
were absolutely not allowed to do this. And I believe

(01:13:08):
that he could have been defrauded by this company and
he thought it was a legitimate company and and and
they just lied to him. And that's happens all the time.
Investors will invest in a Ponzi scheme that comes out
that they're just stealing their money, so that that that's
and that that's smart. Rich people happen to that, So
that's not like inexcusable for me. But he would have
to be so stupid to do this without thinking that

(01:13:30):
he could get caught and having real involvement, which is
which is like why I want to give him the
benefit of doubt, even though you're right that, like all
of the signs point to this being probably the case.

Speaker 5 (01:13:42):
Yeah, I mean you're right about Like, I guess I'll
go to this. I'll say, like, I think it'd be
more negligent than stupid. Like I think it could be
something that slipped through the cracks of like like, uh,
I didn't.

Speaker 4 (01:13:52):
Quite cover my tail here, and the other circumstances.

Speaker 2 (01:13:54):
That would be stupid.

Speaker 5 (01:13:55):
If he didn't cover his tail, it would be uh,
he's got a lot on his place, Steve vahmer Man
like that. I think that this could be something more
forgotten than like just stupid.

Speaker 4 (01:14:06):
I'll fill the other circumstantial parts of this.

Speaker 5 (01:14:08):
We do know that there were reports when Kawhi Leonard
was a free agent about him requesting these crazy things
like a private jet from the Lakers, And there's a
report about the Raptors that he requested fifteen million dollars
off the books up there. We know that, we know
that he signed with the Clippers. I don't I don't
want to go any farther than that. Like, I think
we gotta let the investigation play itself out. But it

(01:14:28):
just feels like the entire like logic part of my
brain is like something's happening here, something is not quite right,
and they're gonna have to find the smoking gun for
the punishment to come out. But how can they even Like,
are you gonna find the six richest man in the world?
Are you gonna take away draft picks of a team
that already barely has any that the Sixers directly have
their twenty twenty nine and the swap in twenty twenty
eight for this Clippers team here, Like, are you just

(01:14:50):
gonna take their draft picks in the twenty thirties?

Speaker 4 (01:14:52):
I have no clue how you correct this.

Speaker 5 (01:14:54):
But if you can find that smoking gun, I do
think you have to like lay the hammer on this
Clippers organization.

Speaker 2 (01:14:58):
Yeah, so we know Uncle Dennis. Obviously this the guy
represents him off the court, and we know that Uncle
Dennis is a guy who who has requested for things
that he's not allowed to request for in the past,
for a lot of from a lot of organizations where
you're just not allowed to get these extra I don't
call him perks, but extra side deals. When you're negotiating
a contract to play basketball, you're not allowed to do that.

(01:15:19):
So there is all of like the smoke is there,
the tea leaves are there that it could be true
and logically would make sense based on the evidence, but
the evidence is very circumstantial and I don't necessarily know
you can drop the hammer down without a legitimate paper
trail and proof that Steve Bomber was aware of this
and doing this to circumvent the cat And I don't

(01:15:41):
think there is a paper trail. I don't think that
exists because that would be of Steve Bomber's involvement. Because
number one, that would just be insane, like next level stupid.
I don't know if he's capable of that type of stupidity.
And second, I think it would have been found already,
it would have been released already, So I don't necessarily
see how you can drop the hammer on this guy.
So it's a really unique situation because they should probably

(01:16:03):
be fine to an extent when an investigation finds maybe
the investigation language says it's more likely than not that
Steve Balmer knew about this and was involved in this deal,
but more likely than not should not be the burden
of proof when you're dropping the hammer on someone. So
maybe it's a half define, but have defined Steve Bomber
would be nothing. So I don't I'm not convinced it's interesting,

(01:16:26):
but I'm not convinced that this is going to be
some groundbreaking story and investigation when the investigation is actually complete.

Speaker 5 (01:16:33):
Yeah, but the last thing I'll know before I got
to pop off here is like we also know the
when that first investigation was found the Clippers did something
wrong about the cap kind of situation is the NBA
put in there that we reserve the right to reopen
these type of investigations to that a point, like if
like the feeling of that was like we're onto something
but we don't exactly have it.

Speaker 4 (01:16:54):
This is more in that category.

Speaker 5 (01:16:56):
Like my spidey senses are tingling that like the Clippers
are very directly doing something wrong.

Speaker 4 (01:17:01):
They just have to like like nail that down and
find it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:04):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you could be right. I mean,
I'm I'm not I'm not speaking with a lot of convention
conviction right now because I don't I'm torn honestly, like
I don't know, Like I don't know if Steve BOMBERNUW
or not. There's definitely the tea leaves there, and I'm
not convinced that there's gonna be some some groundbreaking punishment.
So I'm very I'm very unknown and not speaking a
lot of conviction. But it's a very interesting storyline and situation.

(01:17:24):
But all right, that'll do it for us on Fox
Sports The Game with Sean Bernard and Sam Ostre breaking
down everything went on uh in Sunday's action of the
NFL and some NBA news too, which you never know
will drop on us in early September. We'll be back
next Monday. Stay tuned, we'll talk to you later.

Speaker 4 (01:17:41):
Peace spreads total and all the prop that's in between.

Speaker 2 (01:17:46):
It's the gambler.

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