Ep. 99: Eagles Remain Undefeated, NFL Week 3 Takeaways, How NBA Can Fix the Kawhi Leonard Situation - 09/22/25

Sean Barnard and Sam Oshtry talks about the miraculous Eagles win against the Rams on Sunday, more NFL Week 3 takeaways, and how the NBA can fix this whole Kawhi Leonard/Clippers mess.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Number one on your car radio preset hand the new
and improved Diehard Radio w D A yes and WD
two seven three D Philadelphia Ice Fox Sports Radio, the Gambler.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Ladies and gentlemen. The Philadelphia Eagles are three and h.

Speaker 3 (00:14):
A win is a win is a win, and yesterday
came in pretty impressive fashion. Jordan Davis running at the
length of the field, a blocked field goal, taking it
all the way for a touchdown, A big man's dream
to complete that victory, right, they're very excited about that.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
I'm here. My name is Sean Benard. I'm here with
my guy Sam Osher to talk.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
About the Egles victory, everything else that went down in
the NFL world this weekend, as well as the Kawhi
Leonard take that. I got to get off my chest
as the dust begins to settle with that entire situation
before we die too deep in out anything, Sam, how
are we doing?

Speaker 2 (00:42):
My guy?

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Great? Great? I mean, when when the Eagles win games
like that, there's there's a lot to celebrate, a lot
to take, a lot to learn from and take away.
But one of the more electric Eagles wins in a
long time, Like non playoff wins, regular season wins, a
comeback like that twenty six unanswered that was that was incredible,
So let's talk about it.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I'm not the most animated game watcher.
I would say I'm a pretty reserved sit back take
it in. Yesterday was one where when they blocked that
field goal, got me off the couch, got me fired
off with that, So I would have started exactly there.
It was not a seamless first half by any means,
negative one, totally artists coming at a halftime for the
Philadelphia Eagles.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
They're the passing game non existent.

Speaker 3 (01:22):
But they did not quit, they did not give up,
and honestly looked like the best version of the Eagles
team that we've seen all season in that second half.
So when you're evaluating that game from an Eagles perspective,
what is your number one takeaway?

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Sam, how do you feel about how yesterday went down?

Speaker 1 (01:35):
I think the number one takeaway has to be the
passing offense in the second half, right, and how reluctant
they were to let Jalen Hurts throw the football consistently.
I mean, they had zero passing yards in the first half,
and even though they actually that John Hurts had. I
think it was eighteen passing yards. But it's interesting side
note that if he's sacked twice for eighteen yards, so
technically which I hate, did they do that by the way,
I know, but it counts for his passing yards, But

(01:58):
as a team passing yards zero because those sacks, how
did they do it for rushing by the way, Like yeah,
it would make more sense for it to be for rushing.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
I feel like yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Whatever, regardless he had zero, he had zero passing yards
or the team at zero passing yards in the first half,
and they they when you're in such a deficit, you
have no choice but to start throwing the football, but
to start airing out the football, and that's what they
did in the second half and AJ Brown, It's what
we've been talking about all week, even with the two
and zero start that the Eagles had. The biggest criticism

(02:28):
for them was their passing offense and not feeding a. J.
Brown getting him involved, and he of course unleashed in
the second half because Hurts has no choice but to
throw the football and the Eagles have no choice about
to throw the football. So I was so impressed with
Jalen hurt that passing offense in the second half, and
of course's the resolve of this team, but it starts
with the fact that everyone was criticizing the passing offense,

(02:49):
and rightfully so after yesterday's second half, yesterday's first half,
and the first two weeks people were booing in link
the Financial Stadium. And then when they're forced to pass,
they proved everyone and they are capable of it. So
I think that also tells Nick Sirianni and Kevin Petula
as play callers that they should be passing the ball
on early downs more often. And yeah, Saquon, you have

(03:11):
great offensive line. Saquon Barkley is the best running back
in lead. You're gonna lean on him when you need to,
especially to kill clock and extend drives. But you also
can pass on early downs because of the weapons you
have on the outside and because of how much trust
you should have in Hurts as a.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Pass Yeah, it felt great to finally see Jalen Hurts
unleashed a little bit. That it feels like there's been
so much kid gloves to start this season for how
this offense is being really play called. Like, I think
this is a Kevin Petula conversation, and I always take
a little bit more stock.

Speaker 2 (03:40):
Like the media stuff is interesting.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
Jalen Hurts is obviously sort of a vault for getting
information out of it. He's gonna answer, He's not gonna
give you what you want. At the press conference, I
thought it was interesting that him walking off the field,
so this was an interview, not where he had it,
not after he had his second to collect himself and
you know, put on his Jalen Hurts persona and step
to the media. This was an interview on the feel
walking off yesterday and he was asked about the victory,

(04:02):
and the quote that Jalen Hurts gave was quote, We've
played so many styles of football where in the first
half we've got to get out of this playing not
to lose. We've got to come out aggressive and play
our game. You saw our game in the second half.
I do think that is a message from Jalen Hurts
right there, and I think every one of the offense
feels it. This is a dominant, complete roster. This is

(04:22):
from top to bottom. Every one of these individual players A. J. Brown,
Davonte Smith, Saquon Barkley, Jalen Hurts himself, These are elite
football players. Let them be that that it does feel
like there's a lot of this playing not to lose,
that this team can just straight up beat teams.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Let that be the case.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
I thought that was a loud message from Jalen Hurts
to Kevin Patula directly, and I do think we'll see
some effects from it moving forward.

Speaker 2 (04:43):
That yes, Saquon Barkley is excellent.

Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yes, he ran for two thousand yards broke the all
time rushing record when including playoffs last year. There will
be games where Saquon Barkley can carry this offense. That's
not going to be weaken and weak out. When Jalen
Hurts needs to carry this offense, He's completely capable of
doing that.

Speaker 2 (04:59):
So let that be the case. And I think that
was the message.

Speaker 1 (05:01):
I wasn't as critical of Kevin Patoula after the first
couple of weeks because we saw this last year with
Kevin Moore as the play caller. Early, we saw with
Brian Johnson and Nick Sirianni was calling plays at certain stretches.
We saw all these trends of them being ultra conservative
and maybe not letting Jalen Hurts throw the ball as much.
And there's always been criticism about their passing offense. But

(05:22):
as we saw last year, the personnel on this offense
is so good that they can beat you in multiple ways,
is what you just said. Like, if you want to
have a game where Sakuon is going to have two
hundred plus rushing yards, you just feed him constantly. They're
capable of that. They have the best offensive line in
the league, which hasn't been as good with rushing the football,
but they were great in pass protection yesterday. Still, you
have a great offensive line, you have the best running

(05:44):
back in the league. You can lean on Saque when
you need to. You also had maybe the best wide
receiver due in the NFL in DeVante Smith and.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
A J.

Speaker 1 (05:53):
Brown. Obviously, you have Johan Dotson, you have Dallas gott It,
you have such great weapons, and you have a really
clutch quarter back who The best thing we've seen from
Jaleen Hurts of the last two seasons is how much
he's limited his turnovers. His decision making has gone to
a whole new level since twenty twenty three, where he
had a ton of turnovers as a high volume passer.
So that's the thing. It's that you can beat teams

(06:15):
in so many different ways, And that's why I wasn't
that upset with the passing offense last the last couple
of weeks leading up to this week, because you saw
it in the Super Bowl last year. Jaleen Hurts aired
the ball out. He was incredible. You saw it in
key moments throughout last season that they were run heavy offense,
but when they needed the passing game to show up,
it did, so I wasn't concerned. And yeah, it was

(06:35):
maybe at their half after the first half of this
game yesterday against the Rams, but what you see in
the second half was what the Rams were doing was
they were playing underneath on a lot of these Eagles routes,
and they were trying to limit short yardage gains where
it's like seven yard slants to AJ Brown or comeback
routes or those type of stuff, and they were trying

(06:56):
to limit that stuff. What you saw with the Dallas
gout or third three yard completion down the field was
that stretches the defense completely. So now the Rams actually
have to be worried about Jaleen Hurts throwing the ball
fifteen to twenty plus yards down the field, and that
changes how the Rams defensive approach goes what you saw
after that moment late in the third quarter into the
fourth quarter was Jalen Hurts was kidding guys for seven

(07:17):
eight yard games on early downs. They had to throw
the ball in early downs because they were trailing, and
it was working because they put the top off the defense.
They these these seven eight yard games on first downs
are what can make manageable second downs, manageable third downs.
And that's how you move the chains. That's how they
put drives together, drives together. So I want to see
that more of that going forward. But there's a lot

(07:38):
to be encouraged by in the second half yesterday.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
Yeah, one hundred percent, and that's a good RAMS team.
Like that is a short great Dams team. Yeah, they
dug themselves a whole, But that wasn't like as embarrassing
as I think it sort of has been talked about.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Let's let's just say this right now when you bring
up a great RAMS team. They've won nine of the
last twelve games. Yeah, the only three losses in that
span to the Philadelphia Eagles. And they were also they
probably would have won the Super Bowl last year if
it wasn't for the Eagles. I thought they were the
second best team in the league by the time the
Eagles played them, they easily. I won't be shocked to
throw the Super Bowl this year. This is just a
good Rams team. It's a great RAMS team and a
real NFC contender.

Speaker 3 (08:11):
Yes, certainly the team that gave the Eagles the biggest
trouble throughout the entire playoff run. So I was not
like as embarrassed by them falling behind and the way
I think it was talked about. I did want to
swing it in this direction though. So we've now had
three games to this Eagles team that I think this
second half was the closest that we've seen them look
to their peak, But I don't know if we've quite
seen it. And I do mean that on both sides

(08:32):
of the football too. I thought the defense incredible in
the second half yesterday. The blocks just from top to bottom,
Quinnon Mitchell elite stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
I wanted to give them their flowers as well.

Speaker 3 (08:41):
But if I'm the phrase to you like this, Sam
Austri we're making our power rankings right now, where did
the Eagles stack up in the NFL?

Speaker 2 (08:47):
They have not blown people away to this point. Are
they still the top dog?

Speaker 1 (08:51):
One hundred percent? Of the number one team in the NFL.
They just came off of Super Bowl win. The three
to zero. Yeah, the Cowboys might suck. Let's just be honest.
I thought the Cowboys gonna be pretty good after Week
one based on how they compete with the Eagles. Cowboys
might suck. Probably won't compete in the NFC East. I
don't care the Chiefs record how they're playing right now.
They went into Kansas City after being them the Super
Bowl and got to win, and then they were playing

(09:12):
an NFC contender in the Rams and trailed big and
scored twenty six unanswered points to win that football game
at home. There's no one you can put. I don't
get the Ravens, Bills. I don't want to hear it
Packers obviously, not after yesterday. But I don't want to
hear it that the Eagles are the number one team
in the NFL and there's a big gap between them
and number two right now because they just find ways

(09:33):
to win football games. There's been ugly moments. Second half
against the Cowboys in that opener was ugly offensively. There
were some ugly defensive moments and offensive moments against the Chiefs. Obviously,
the first half was disgusting offensively against against the Rams.
But when you have a team with that much resolve
and that much resiliency and that much talent, because talent

(09:53):
can't win you games just because you're talented. When you
have resolve, resiliency and all these things that the Eagles have,
that's what's so impressive. And let's just give a Nick
Sirianni credit for a second. Yeah, because he deserves more
credit than he gets. And I know people have come
around on him a little bit after people are calling
for his job last season, but not enough. I mean,
this guy's beat Andy Reid three straight times down, not

(10:15):
just beat Andy Reid, out coached Andy Reid three straight times.
That's a future Hall of Famer Sean McVay, this brilliant
offensive mastermind, the brightest mind to ever play football. Nick
Sirianni's out coached that guy three straight times for three
straight Eagles wins. And yeah, you can say the roster
is better. And of course it starts at the top
with Jeffrey Lourie and his ownership. Howie Roseman has built

(10:36):
an incredible culture and he's the one who puts this
roster together. So all that's great. That's incredible that when
you have the better roster, it's easier to win football games,
no doubt more. Talent, better chance to win. Talent can't
win your game solely just based on talent, you just can't.
That's Nick Sirianni's culture that he's built, the will to win,
the resolve that never give up mindset when you're trailing

(10:56):
as much as they did twenty six unanswered points. When
Jordan Davis has in year three as finally or your
four it is maybe I think it's your fourth.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
Actually, yeah, it's your four.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
How he's finally gotten himself into incredible shape where he
can be in every down, defensive problem in a menace
and of course the two blocks are incredible. So Nick
Sirianni deserves credit for building a culture that's a culture
win yesterday. You don't beat Sean Nicklay or Andy Reid
three straight team times without having incredible resolve and an
incredible culture. And that's what Nick Sirianni's built. So you

(11:25):
could talk about the play calling all you want, that
that was as impressive an Eagles regular season win as
we've seen in a long long time.

Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah, one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (11:34):
There and yeah, he may not be your cup of
tea for how he handles himself, Nick s Gianni, but
at some point the results have to speak for themselves. Man,
this team just wins, Nick Sirianni, just wins, and shout
out to him. Last or two last questions here, Number one,
give out a game ball for yesterday. So one guy
on this Eagles team that you can give it to,
Jalen if you want to go that there, Actually you
want to dig deeper in the weeds. But if I

(11:54):
were to ask you the number one guy that earned
that game ball, who would you say?

Speaker 1 (11:58):
I mean, it's got to be Jordan Davis, right, I
mean he made the play. He made the play, the
block and then the scoop and score goes all the
way back. He was moving and just one of the
worst covers you'll ever see for Rams back. Oh yeah,
oh yeah, somehow the Eagles cover that three and a half.
You have to be just sick to your stomach if
you had the Rams because it really wasn't the right
play when you think about that game. But Jordan Davis

(12:21):
deserves the game ball because not just for this game,
but like I was just talking about how he's gotten
himself into such great shape. I mean, this was a
guy that there were serious concerns about if he could
be an every down defensive lineman because he was always
constantly tired. And yeah, it's not gonna happen in one
or two years. And you don't just get yourself into
shape in the offseasons, throughout the entire season, playing a
ton of snaps. And that's what he's done this year.

(12:42):
And it's been so incredible to watch his growth and
his maturity, which is so important when when you're talking
about him and Jalen Carter is the future of that
defensive line. So so yeah, Jordan Davis certainly deserves a
game ball. Jalen Hurts also deserves a game ball. He
was incredible, Like he was so good in the second half,

(13:03):
feeding aj Brown, making the right reads, throwing the ball
down feel when he needs to. Even the DeVante Smith
touchdown just a perfect read, perfect throw by him. So
Jalen Hurts was incredible. Has he thrown an interception this year?
I don't think he's not like that. That's the biggest
thing with him. You win, you win games if you
win the turnover battle. We see that week every weekend
and week out. If you can win the turnover batle,
you're gonna have a damn good chance of winning the

(13:24):
football game. We don't. We don't lose turnover battles because
Jalen hurts does not turn the ball over. He just doesn't.
And that's what's so impressive about his growth. So Jalen
hurtson and Jordan Davis for my two game boals.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
Yeah, and uh, he did have the fumble yesterday, so
I will throw out that out there, But the interceptions,
I mean his I can't say more about how impressed
I was with Jalen Hurds yesterday. I do think those
are the two obvious answers. And Jordan Davis and Dalen Hurrison,
I'll know the Jordan Davis thing. I think this is
like a this year, he's moving different. It started right
from week one when there was the Jalen Carter injection

(13:56):
and all of a sudden it was next man up.
He's being thrown to the fire, being asked to play
every down, a pretty nice job in week one, and
then yesterday, I think it was the best game of
his NFL career to this point. I do think this
is a trend I think that he has turned a
corner in the way that he is being effective on
the field. And do you think this is something before
to throw one more name in the mix, I gotta
give Zach baughd some love. Man, He's just incredible. Like

(14:17):
this is the best linebacker play the Eagles have gotten
in years. Like it's so crazy to me that this
is a dude that Howie Roseman just found off the
scrap peat. But he was a special teamer, a defensive
end before he came to Philadelphia Eagles. And this dude
is just one of the better linebackers that I've ever seen.
So little hat tipped to Zach Vaughn. If you don't
notice him sometimes that means he's doing his job.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Incredible.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
It's really just crazy to think that he was a
defensive end essentially, and that's what he was thinking for
all of his career. Wasn't particularly effective. Vic Fangio and
Howi rose might identify this guy like, look, he can
Actually he's great in coverage too. Why don't we use
him more in coverage? Why don't we use him more
as a in coverage? And that's what he did last year,
of course, and was a all NFL Defensive Team guy

(14:59):
because of it, and he's been incredible this year too.
But it's just crazy to think that those two guys
identified this guy as Okay, he's great in coverage, let's
not use him as an edge rusher like all these
other like he was for most of his career. And
what a scout by those guys and Zach Ballins made
them look like geniuses because he's been incredible.

Speaker 2 (15:16):
Yeah, unbelievable stuff.

Speaker 3 (15:18):
So shout out Zach ball My last Eagles question before
we take a trip around the NFL here. So we
talked plenty about Jalen Hurts to rattle off his stat
line to this point. So against the Dallas Cowboys, he
completed nineteen of his twenty three passes for one hundred
and fifty two yards, zero touchdown, zero interceptions. Through the air,
he did add sixty two rushing yards and two touchdowns
with his legs. Against the Kansas City Chiefs, fifteen of

(15:39):
twenty two for one hundred and one yards, added fifteen
rushing yards in a touchdown with his legs, and then
yesterday twenty one of thirty two for two hundred and
twenty six yards, three passing touchdowns, forty rushing yards and
one rushing touchdown.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
There.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
Next week, the Philadelphia Eagles take on the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Speaker 2 (15:55):
We saw them air of the ball out a little
bit more in the second half. Is this is a
trend that we're going to buy in too?

Speaker 3 (16:00):
And if I'm asking you to predict the Jalen Hurd
stat line right now, what are you thinking for a
Week four?

Speaker 1 (16:06):
Why do we always play the Bucks on the road.
It's getting a little ridiculous at this point. This is
this is the fourth straight matchup on the road, and
I think it's five to last six times we've played
them will be in Tampa Bay, and including that one
playoff game when Tom Brady won the Super Bowl in
twenty twenty one. They own us in Tampa Bay. I mean,
they really own us. So that obviously that was I
think that was Week four last year when they just

(16:27):
dominated us in Tampa Bay and we were got we
headed into the buy from there and of course turned
everything around after that. But just historically they've just dominated
us in Tampa Bay. So I don't have like the
greatest expectations for fur the Eagles. I mean, hopefully it
is like a revenge spot because they know the I mean,
they watch the tape of all those games in Tampa
Bay since Nicky Roani has been here, and they just

(16:50):
have the Eagles number for whatever reason. Not in the postseason,
the Bucks aren't a threat, but they're consistently a perennial
postseason team. So if I want to predict Jalen Hurts
stat line, I'd probably say, like, the teams have moved
the ball pretty successfully with the pass against the Bucks
this year. Their Buck their defense isn't as good as
people give it credit for, just because Todd Bowles is

(17:11):
their coach and he's a defensive mine.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
But it's not really been great.

Speaker 1 (17:14):
It's really been their offense in Baker Mayfield over the
last couple of years that has been the catalyst for
the for the Bucks' success. So to answer your question
along win the manner, just so I'm stalling here, I'll
say I'll say, like the one hundred and seventy yards, Oh,
Jaleen Hurt's passing probably around like twenty five to twenty

(17:34):
seven attempts and maybe like thirty rushing yards. I would
say that's that would be a really good performance for him.
You want to see no picks again, because he's been
really in consistent with that. But I would say if
that's his his his stat line, and they're letting him
throw the ball a little more, which would that that
would be an upticking attempts twenty five to twenty seven.
I would I would be pretty content with that performance
and content with the balance of the play calling too.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
I think this is the week that the kid gloves
fully come off and we get our first j hard
Jalen hurts three hundred plus yard passing game, but I
think they're gonna let him spin it this week. He's
totally capable. This offense is ready just let him throw
the football. Man Like it felt refreshing in the second
half to see deep shots, to let AJ Brown make
some plays. I think we see that from the start
to finish next week, and then we finally see what
this offense can look like.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
Yeah. I mean, you got to see the explosive plays early, because,
like I talked about, that takes the top off the
defense and then they can't get underneath these routes and
then you have these seven eight yard games to Devonte Smith,
to god Or to AJ Brown, and those guys are
so good after the catch too, so they can extend
those plays. So you want to see them take deep
shots early. I'm with you. I think they're definitely. I mean,

(18:39):
they better passed the ball more than they did in
the first half yesterday coming into this week, and I
don't know how you watch the tape and think otherwise
and how ugly it was when when they just weren't
even a tempting to pass the ball and it zerr
passing yards in the first half. That's needs to be correctable,
and it's easier to correct mistakes when you have a
three to zero record and you're winning games despite things

(19:02):
being ugly for certain stretches. So it is the time
to test some stuff out. You're still figuring out your identity.
You can find their identity really until like Week seven
last year, even after that Browns game when they're coming
off the by that was ugly, So you have time
to find your identity. It's time to experiment with things
as you win football games. So yeah, if Jale hurts
those are ball thirty plus times in a game where

(19:23):
they're not trailing, because he threw the ball thirty two
times yesterday, but they were trailing by a lot, so
he had to throw the ball. If it's a game
where they're just having a lot more balanced in the
pass and run, then I'm fine with that because I
trust jale Hurts as a passer at this point, which
is not something I and a lot of Eagles fans
probably said two years ago.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:39):
Well, I'm happy that Jalen Hurds is getting a chance
to prove people wrong a little bit as he continues
to do and dropping bars in the process.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
But let's move a little bit around the rest of
the NFL.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
A lot of action that did go down yesterday, as
well as, of course the Baltimore Ravens and Detroit Lions
facing off tonight. To close down this slate, well, let's
start with the action that has already gone down. Sam,
I want to throw the question to you, the most
impressive victory of the weekend out of the games that
have taken place. What would your answer be?

Speaker 1 (20:04):
So, I mean, it's definitely the Eagles because of everything
we talked about. But I'm gonna make this an accept
the Eagles question because we obviously just talked about the
Eagles for twenty minutes here and led the show with that.
So accept the Eagles. Twenty six hundredserpoints. What a comeback,
What a moment to close that game with Jordan Davis's
block field goal. I'm gonna say most impressive win not
including the Eagles, would be the Chicago Bears, who looked

(20:28):
really good yesterday. And there's some other teams you could say,
like the Chargers, maybe the Vikings, even with Carson Wentz.
Fun to watch him ball out again. I don't know
where you're gonna go with this, but Caleb Williams is awesome.
I mean, he had the third best quarterback performer of
the season based on EPA per dropback, so that point
sixty one, third best quarterback performance of the entire season

(20:48):
of anyone. He was incredible. Yesterday's to read a stat
line two hundred and ninety eight yards, four touchdowns, sixty
nine percent completion percentage. I believe his pass rings in
the one hundred and forties. He was awesome when he was
making contested throws too, so he was running outside of
the pocket and delivering the ball accurately. He was also
making contested throws. I mean, think about that flea flicker,
which was a bold, obviously interesting play call, but there

(21:12):
was guy in his face. I mean, he was in
the pocket. He took a hit when he threw that ball,
and it was a perfectly thrown ball. So he was
making throws in the pocket under duress. And this is
the best game of Williams career as a passer. And
yet it was against the Cowboys, who probably suck. We
know they're passing defense and defense the hole definitely sucks.
But still this is still a big moment for Kayla
Williams and the Bears because this is what I've been saying,

(21:33):
as Caleb Williams against so much criticism this year. You
have to treat this like a rookie season for Kayleb Williams.
Last year was a disaster from a coaching perspective, from
a developmental perspective, organizationally, the roster that surrounded him, the
play callers, everything, It was just a disastrous year for
Caleb Williams. He now gets Ben Johnson coming in, he
gets a lot of help on the offensive line, better weapons.

(21:54):
You have to treat this year like Kayler Williams rookie
season alongside Ben Johnson, and if any rookie put that
performance up that he just did in Week three, we'd
be talking about this guy is the future. So I
don't care what defensive was against. I was so impressed
with Kilboms. It's not like he was bad the first
two weeks. I mean he wasn't good.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
He was, but he wasn't.

Speaker 1 (22:13):
Bad either, Like he was solid. He had good moments
as a rusher, especially in week one. I thought you missed,
you missed some throws first, and I think you even
saw that yesterday. He missed a couple throws. That's always
gonna be part of the Klab Wims experience as he develops.
But you still saw the roll town yesterday and that's
why people loved him coming out of college. So I
was really impressed with the Cabs and the Bears. That's
a big time win for them.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
Yeah, one hundred percent there.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
And I'm trying not to be a Kalla Williams hater
for the record here that I do want to give
the kid a fair shake. And do you think he's
walked into it as difficult as a situation as really
you could ask for from a quarterback perspective. There, that
wasn't necessarily win for the Chicago Bears yesterday that they
were It was getting late early in Chicago if that
was not gonna end up being the case, and I
think dropping at zero to three would have really increased
the panic meter.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
There was nice to see from their direction.

Speaker 3 (22:56):
There was surprised to hear that be your most impressive victory,
though my brain a couple of different directions. I did
want to show a little bit of love to the
Minnesota Vikings an absolute stopping forty eight to ten over
the Cincinnati Bengals there. But I'm throwing right back to
the Indianapolis Colts man Indiana Jones, Daniel Jones, like it
is unbelievable, how real it looks like some of these
throws that he's making under pressure, just straight up like

(23:19):
awesome quarterback play. Jonathan Taylor the real deal leading the
league and rushing yards and like they have some weapons there.
I don't know, man, I'm starting talking myself to this
Colts team being potentially dangerous. I think they're gonna be
a playoff team. They're three and oh they look incredible.
I'm coming once again. I'm walking away from another week
of out of football very impressed by the Colts. And
I thought there was no world where I would be

(23:40):
thinking that three weeks into the season.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
The Colts are your most impressive win over the Tennessee Titans.

Speaker 2 (23:45):
Forty one to twenty in dominant fashion.

Speaker 1 (23:47):
Again I can suck. They stink. I mean, they could
be the top pick in the draft again this year.
And cam Ward it's not all his fault. I don't
think he's looked great last couple weeks, even though you
liked what he saw week one. But he just now,
so it's not all his fault. I'm not gonna put
all the blame on him. The Titans are awfu look
I like that. I'm on the Colts train too, especially
because the AFC South is really bad. Texans are zero

(24:07):
to three now and the Jaguars will be in the mix,
but the Colts could easily win that division. And I agree.
I mean, Daniel Jones has been awesome the really only
test they've seen so far as the Broncos. Of course,
they should have really lost that game, but get blessed
with a late flag again another opportunity kick a field
go and end up winning that game. But still he's
been incredible and he's had an over one hundred passer
rating in all three games so far this season, and

(24:29):
no turnovers, no interceptions, which is rare what we've seen
from Daniel Jones during his Giants' tenure. So I don't
hate it like I love Daniel Jones and this Colts
team for the rest of the season. I think this
is a real resurrection of his career in a new spot,
new location, new play caller, all that stuff we've seen
that help a lot of quarterbacks in their second destination.
Baker Mayfield, Sam Donald. We can go down the list,

(24:51):
but biggest best win of the Sunday slateman they play
the Tennessee Titans.

Speaker 3 (24:55):
How much better are the Dallas Cowboys than I think
mar Originally I think marginally Cowboys like the twentieth best team.

Speaker 1 (25:03):
They got blessed to beat the Giants, but I actually
think the Giants are a little better than that. Oh
and three, Mark, I agree. I think their quarterback they
have serious quarterback issues, but he actually played really well
against the Cowboys awful defense. Seems like anybody can throw
the ball well against the Cowboys awful defense. And they
compe against Eagles.

Speaker 2 (25:21):
Like they did.

Speaker 1 (25:21):
It was a weird game. Light in delay, uh they were,
but they were moving the ball really well in the
first half against the Eagles, of course without Jalen Carter
for the Eagles defensive front. Still, though the Cowboys are
way better than the Titans, to me, I think barely.

Speaker 3 (25:34):
Like I think they're a little better. I don't think
it's that. I think that's pretty close. Also, by the
way you brought up the Giants, just stop with this
Jackson dark handoff stuff. Man, it's driving me crazy. Like
last night, it felt like the first time Russell Wilson
found like a rhythm, found a flow of the game.
It was immediate, like, all right, Jackson Dart, come in
here and hand the ball off. He's yet to attempt
to pass. He's literally just coming in handing the ball

(25:56):
off or running it himself. I don't understand what the
point of this is. What's there is no way you
can convince me that this is beneficial to his trajectory
as of a quarterback when he's ready throw him in there.
I don't get this nonsense of bringing him in to
hand the ball.

Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, I'm with you. I like they're not fooling the
defense at all. Where it's like you think he's gonna
be a threat as a passer, you know, like based
on their formation, you know, exactly. The defense knows that
they're gonna be handing the ball off. Maybe it's just
through a piece. The fans they are a chance chanting
we want Dart just for a couple of snaps. It
doesn't really make any sense, but yeah, I mean it's
a matter of weeks before the season started, when we

(26:30):
did some preview stuff, I told you it's gonna be
that week the after I think it's Week five against
the Saints. It would be would be the game that
I think Jackson Dart's actually gonna take the reins over
because that's an easy matchup to make a debut against
against an awful Saints team. So and they play the
Chargers next week, that is not an easy matchup. So
I think Russ has one more week. But it's got
to be hard for him knowing that his time is

(26:51):
ticking and there's really nothing he can do at this point.
Because even last week he bawled out three hundred plus
passing yards was incredible and fifty my bad, four hundred
and fifty passing yards. I shouldn't have discredited him like that.
Four hundred and fifty passing yards against the Cowboys defense
should have won that game. End up going overtime. He
throws an awful pick and there it is. But Russell Wilson.

(27:13):
I mean, I guess we're just gonna go on tangenter
for a second. We're really gonna talk Giants that much.
But he is one of the worst quarterbacks I've ever
seen at this point of his career. Like when he's
throwing these deep balls, I mean he's throwing them into
triple coverage or at least double coverage every single time.
What is he possibly thinking against the Chiefs last night?
It makes no sense. He's literally just like back there

(27:33):
in the pocket, praying, saying, Oh, it's just like a
test to see how far can throw the football. Let
me just throw it up in the triple coverage. It's
not even near the receiver. He's not just hurting his
own team though at this point. He did it to
Elik Neighbors yesterday in a deep bawl in double coverage.
It ended up leading to Malik Neighbors getting hurt with
a shoulder injury. It's like he's not just hurting his
own team, He's now hurting the Giants' best players. I

(27:54):
think I don't have a problem with them going with
Russell Wilson one more week, or at least I didn't
before yet last night, because it's a good opportunity for Jackson.
Don't just start against the Saints and make his debut.
At that point, you're gonna you're gonna be zero and
four regardless, you're gonna be dogs in every single one
of your games. But now we're at the point where
Russell Wilson might be putting his own players at risk.
He's that bad of a quarterback, So I don't understand
how you can continue to to start him at this point.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
It is shocking to me, like the fall from grace
that Russell Wilson has had, like the Broncos tenure was
incredibly brutal as well. I thought he was okay with
the Steelers, and we're kind of back to basically the
Russell Wilson experiences. He's gonna throw up a bunch of
fifty to fifty balls deep down the field and whoever
his hands they fall in, that's whether it's a good
or good game or bad game for him that he's
just gonna take chances.

Speaker 2 (28:37):
I don't like, full out hate.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
That, like I think that there is but Sewan, these
are not chances. I mean, yeah, you're you see he's
literally thrown like it's not like, oh yeah, let me
let let my guy go make a play, let me
just throw the ball up. He's strong in the triple coverage.
He's just here going back off his back foot tossing
it up. He has a deep arm, and the ball
travels for sure, fifty yards down the field. Sure, but

(28:59):
he's just throwing it up into triple coverage, like, let
me just see where this ball is gonna land. Me.
It's not like he's letting his guy go make a play.
It's it's it's it's inexcusable. I mean, I'm like a
shock of some of these does I don't you don't
see that anyone else in the league doing that. These
are some of the worst those I've ever seen.

Speaker 2 (29:15):
Last night.

Speaker 3 (29:16):
The guy that it reminds me of is the dude
that's third string on their depth chart in Jameis Winston
right here, Like that's what it feels.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, But even like he takes chances like chances are fine,
like let the ear the ball out, chances are fine.
Russell Wilson's throwing the ball up into literal no man's
land against three with three defenders in the area. Like James,
he has a lot of turnovers, Like this is unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
He's just got faith in his guys. Gotta gotta let
him make plays. Uh.

Speaker 3 (29:43):
To the same point on the Giants, quarterback free Jameis Winston.
Man trade this dude to whether it's the Vikings, whether
it's the Bengals.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
The Saints.

Speaker 3 (29:53):
Yeah, it would be sick to see him in Cincinnati, man,
him just throwing it up for t Higgins and Jamar
Chains like James Winston would legitimately if he played a
full season, he'd be throwing for four thousand yards on
that team. I don't need to see Jake Browning free
Jameis winsday. I want to see his man play football.

Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
For some reason, all like this whole week, a lot
of these NFL media people were and who I really
like and trust for sure, they were pushing this idea
that Jake Browning is like the best backup in the league,
that he would be starting on like half of the
laite teams in the NFL. It's like, what are you
talking about? Like, guys, five picks in like a game
and a half. Yeah, Like, what are people talking about

(30:29):
there that the tape obviously doesn't match that excitement that
was alleged in the Brown Bengals building. And also when
he played well and he was four and three as
a starter two seasons ago, I believe when Joe Burrow
missed a lot of time, but that Bengals defense a
lot better back then. This Bengals team is literally all
of their success or lack thereof whatever has been on

(30:50):
Joe Burrow's shoulders because he's had to do everything, been
Superman for them. So nobody can replace or replicate Joe
Burrow and his talent and production. So it doesn't matter
who's going to be a drop off because that defense
is still bad and everything was about all their success
was about Joe Burrow.

Speaker 3 (31:05):
Yeah, this is no Tanner McKee situation out there. Worst
loss yesterday, Sam Austri, who are you most concerned by
the results of their performance?

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Falcons scored zero points in the NFL game. I mean
they lost to the Panthers, not the Caroline Yeah, it's
not that the Eos came in and beat them thirty
to zero. They lost to a team that's not gonna
make the playoffs thirty to zero. And I picked the
Falcons to win the division. So this is just pretty concerning.
And look, I'm not gonna you can't overreact week to
week in the NFL like that, Like things change and

(31:37):
sometimes guys just don't show up. They just don't have it.
Maybe the preparation wasn't there all week, they had a
bad we could practice. They just on the Sunday they
just weren't ready to go. And the Falcons just looked awful.
You don't really see a lot in the NFL teams
get shut out, but especially not lose third to zero.
I mean, the Falcons blitzed a lot, and Bryce Young
was really really impressive. Falcons blitz splitz thirty sixty three

(31:59):
percent of the time, sixty three percent blitzery. And Bryce
Young got rid of the ball and under two and
a half seconds against extra pass rushers. That's really impressive.
It's two point four to six seconds. So Bryce Young
was really good against the Falcons blitz heavy scheme, which
I don't think was necessarily expected maybe or excuse me,
the Panthers did expect it. But then you go to

(32:21):
Michael Pennix on the other side, who had the worst
or second worst quarterback outing of any player this season
based on EPA per drop back. I mean, he was
just really bad, turning the bowl over, was just af
on his throws. And I like Michael Pennix. That's why
I like this Falcons team to win the division a lot.
But whatever we saw yesterday, hopefully it was just a
blip on the radar, but that was just an ugly,
brutal loss. You just flush that tape and you move

(32:42):
on to next week with better week of preparation, and
you just can't ever come out with that approach on
a Sunday NFL football. There's only seventeen of these games
every single week, and that's going to be a game
when the Falcons are competing for the division or competing
for a wildguard spot. We're gonna be like, we just
didn't show up. We just did not want to play
football that day, and we lost to the Panthers thirty zero,
and that could hurt their playoff chances way down the line.

(33:03):
So I'm not completely out on the Falcons, but that
was disappointing and that was pretty concerning.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
Yeah, twelve point four QBR from Michael Pennox yesterday, a
forty point five quarterback rating there. It was brutal, and
I say this is a significant stockholder of both Bryce
Young and Michael Penix. I had some mixed feelings watching yesterday.
It's still like I didn't think Bryce Young crushed it.
It still was not like this is a He's fully
back on track the way that I hope like it's
supposed to. That line for the game completed sixteen of

(33:29):
twenty four for a hunting twenty one yards, no touchdowns,
no interceptions. He also ran the ball for a touchdown there.
This was more of the Falcons completely imploding. And this
was a game that kind of changed the way that
I viewed the Falcons. I'm with you that I talk
about the team like it's a playoff team. I do
going into yesterday believe that Atlanta was not play a lock,
but like a surefire playoff team. That kind of made

(33:50):
me reevaluate things. Man getting thirty to zero against the
Carolina Panthers, that's tough. So yeah, that would probably be
my number one answer there. If I'm gonna go outside
of this, I think we got to bring up the
Green Bay Packers losing to the Cleveland Browns to Joe Flacco.
Man and I understand it was weird the blockfield goal.
You can get into the whole conversation, but the bottom
line is they did not do enough to win that

(34:11):
game thirteen to ten victory by Cleveland. I think we
may have been a little bit premature in crowning the
Packers as this is the biggest NFC threat.

Speaker 2 (34:20):
Maybe they're not.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
I'm still not going to overreact week to week football,
but it does really show you that the Eagles don't
lose games like that. Yeah, and these top teams in
the NFL, like the Bills and Ravens, these teams that
are really vying for to win a Super Bowl, and
there's only a very few teams that are capable of
winning a Super Bowl. Those teams don't lose games like that.
They just don't like they just don't not show up

(34:44):
and have that Portland offensive performance. I'm Jordan Love and
eighty nine quarterback rating only one hundred and eight one
hundred and eighty three yards a touchdown, a pick two.
There's been some ugly decision making from him this year.
And I'm a big Jordan Love fan and stockholder because
I think he's great. I think he could have been
the V's he could have been the MVP of the
league this year, and he's not one of the contenders
right now. But I'm not like off this Packers team

(35:06):
because they suffered a brutal loss of the Browns. The
Ravens also lost to the Browns early on last year
and that didn't really impact them the rest of the season.
But again, like great teams don't lose those games. And
I don't know if the Packers are a great team yet,
but they're still a top three team in the NFC.
I mean, it's the Eagles, it's the Packers, it's the Rams,
so that that didn't really change. Again, there's gonna be
weeks where teams just don't show up, and the Packers

(35:27):
just didn't show up.

Speaker 3 (35:28):
Do you think the Bucks could push the Packers out
of that conversation?

Speaker 1 (35:31):
You know, we never talked about the Bucks as a
legitimate playoff threat, And it's interesting because we should, like
we should, but we also shouldn't because what have they
done in the playoffs to prove us otherwise?

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Beat the Eagles with.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
Tom Brady, let's talk about post Tom Brady. They've done nothing.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
No, that was Baker Baker did Okay?

Speaker 1 (35:48):
I get my bad. That was the collapse here. Yeah,
a high school football team could have beat the Eagles.
Were losing to everybody by the end of that season.
Literally any opponent would have beat the Eagles. They they
were cable of winning playoff games, me wrong, but they're
not really capable of going on run. It's like there's
a tier of teams that are real NFC contenders and
the the Buccaneers always right under that, and it's for

(36:09):
whatever reason. I think. I think Baker Mayfield a great
quarterback and he's clutch, but he's better. But there's nothing
that they've done in the postseason to make a serious
run that should prove us Otherwise, Like when it's time
to play, teams are significantly better than them, they always lose.
So it's like, yeah, they're gonna be the playoffs. They're
alway in the playoffs. They're away gonna win that division.
But I'm not righty to crown them as like the
Packers rams Eagles tier yet.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
I just don't think, like, I don't think there are
teams that are significally bad at that them. I think
they're in that mix right there. I think Baker Mayfield
continues to get better. I think Bucky Irvings leveled up
his game pretty significantly this season. I think we should
talk about the Buccaneers like they're an NFC threat.

Speaker 1 (36:45):
Yeah, it's hard to be there without the without the
playoff resume.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
But what the Packers done, You're right.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
Not they haven't done much, You're for sure right. But
I trust Matt Lefloor and Jordan Love in that combos
play calling quarterback more than I would Baker Mayfield. And
maybe that's not right because Baker Mayfield's clutch.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
I think it is.

Speaker 1 (37:04):
Yeah, I'm a huge, but I'm a huge Jordan Love stockholder.
And Packers defense also really good. I mean, yesterday's problem
was completely about the offense. Ye, Browns aren't good, but
they held them the thirteen points. If you held any
team the NFL with thirteen points the defense, you're expected
to win that football game. Packers defense is elite and
the Buccaneers do not have that type of defense that
the Packers did.

Speaker 3 (37:22):
But you know who's never putting up thirteen points in
the football games is the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Man like that,
that's gonna be a team that's gonna blow teams out
of the water, just offensively. There, it's different styles. I'm
gonna start banging the table that I think the Bucks
need to be in the NFC contention conversation.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
Yeah, I look, look, the talent is there again, but
they've just never made a run like they've been. They've
been just as good this last last season, the year
before that, and all these years. They just never make
a run if they get a good droll to win
a playoff game, and that's about it. The Packers last
year was really the first year where you came onto
the scene or a really a couple of years ago,
I guess with Jordan Love, and now it's like, all right,

(37:57):
you're three of Jordan Love. You feel the next is
coming with Big May From this Bucks team, it's just
been the same thing year after year with an average
defense but a great offense.

Speaker 3 (38:06):
Yeah, they shouldn't have lost the Commanders last year. I
will note that I'm kind of looking at their playoff
history here. They were knocked out by the Eagles in
twenty twenty three, they were knocked out by the Cowboys,
or knocked out by the Lions in twenty twenty three.
I'm sorry, knocked out by the Cowboys in twenty twenty
two knocked out by the Rams in twenty twenty one.
They did make it. I mean with obviously Tom Brady

(38:27):
won the Super Bowl in twenty twenty. We'll see, We'll
see where the chips fall. I'm just gonna put it
on the record that I'm a little bit of Tampa
Bay Bucks believer this year.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
But I guess.

Speaker 3 (38:37):
Grossest win yesterday A team that got the job done,
got in the win column, but it did not look
pretty or wasn't quite what you hoped.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
What would your answer to that be?

Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, I would say the Chiefs, and I was Chiefs
because they didn't really look good against the Giants. I
mean the Giants. Russell Wilson just gave We talked about
the turnover batle wins football games all the time. Russell
Wilson just gave the Chiefs extra possession. Is because of
his awful decision making. But the Chiefs did not look
good and that offense is still struggling. Too many times

(39:06):
they had to settle for field goals. Harrison Bucker missed
one two right before the first half, and did I
believe they just don't have vertical threats like Travis Kelcey
is not even top twenty tight end in the league anymore.
He's just not even a threat out there. And I
don't even know if Patrick Patrick Mahomes trusts him. Is
probably dwindling by the game that they play, and they
don't have any vertical threats without Xavier Worthy who should

(39:29):
be back, and Rashid Rice who eventually back from suspension
but right now and Thornton is he's made plays down
the field. The deep ball, yeah yeah, he obviously had
to drop where it was hard to come down with
that ball in the ground, and then came back to
the very next play. I had a brilliant catch, just
a perfect throw for Mahomes in that moment because it

(39:49):
was the only place the ball could have gone where
to give Thornton an opportunity to catch up, but also
a brilliant contested catch. But other than him, they just
don't really have a lot of threats offensively in my home,
and they don't have a run game. They've never been
established a one game, so it's just relying on Mahomes
to do too much. Who is awesome, We know how
clutch he is, but it's just it's unfair to put
all that burden on him. So this Chiefs team. Yeah,

(40:09):
they didn't. They didn't go down to Owen three, where
we know that's an impossible hole to end up making
the playoffs if you go start with start oh to three.
But this is the Chargers Division as far as I'm concerned,
this is not the Chief's Division. We're gonna be looking
at the Chiefs and wild Cards spot at competing for
a playoff spot because this Chiefs team has not looked
good and it's really offensive concerns to me.

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Yeah, I mean, I think this is the right answer
to the Chiefs with that. And by the way, that
game was hanging in the balance for quite a bit
of time last night, basically the entirety of the first half,
and if you know it wasn't the Russell Wilson moonballs
that they're relying on, we may get a different story.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
So I think that is probably the right answer.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
I did kind of want to throw the Jacksonville Jaguars
in the conversation a seventeen to ten victory of the
Houston Texans. I can't figure out what to make of
this Jaguars team man and the Texans are like in
a similar.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
Kind of boat that I what why I think the Chiefs.

Speaker 3 (40:56):
Is the right answer is I didn't really have full
expectations for how that Texans Aaguars game would go. But
I just like they should be a team that's sort
of in the mix, and I just don't have any
confidence in their outlook.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
And I thought yesterday was a game that sort of
showed that, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (41:09):
The offense isn't great and Brian Thomas Junior has been
a little disappointment year. Had three drops. He had three
drops yesterday, but then he comes back for a forty
six yard completion, which was a huge gain for them.
Of course, travers etn scores on the next play, but
still like those drops and that chemistry between Trevor Lawrence
and Brian Thomas just hasn't been there, and that's been

(41:29):
problematic for their passing offense. And they've been able to
win games with their defense more than anything. But this
was more a reflection on how bad the Texans are
to me. I mean, cse Stroud, what a fall from
grace from his rookie season to now. He has a
forty QBR and a seventy seven passer rating this year.
That's towards the bomb of the NFL. That's on par
with guys like Russell Wilson and cam Ward at the

(41:50):
moment like that, that's really bad. It's not all his fault. Again,
the protection is awful. He's running first live, they have
a real life. They have a really weak offensive line.
He has a lot of reliable weapons like he did
his rookie season, but there's too many negative plays, like
he threw the ball thirty eight times yesterday in a
close game, a low scoring game. You can't do that. Siege.
Stroud should not be that high volume of a passer.

(42:12):
He's just not capable of that. And there's too many
negative plays, whether it's sacks, interceptions, whatever it is, they're
just racking up for CJ. Stroud. So yeah, this Texans team,
they're actually the last team, the only team this century
to make the playoffs have just starting zero to three,
and that.

Speaker 2 (42:25):
Was in twenty eighteen.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
I don't it's another weak division, which I think, but
it's gonna between the Jags and the Colts. I don't
think the Texans are gonna be the mix, and we're
gonna end up having a serious, serious CJ. Stroud conversation
next off season. Where after his rookie season, everyone's talking
him and crowning him as a top ten quarterback in
the league. And now what a fall from grace for him.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
Yeah, it just looks completely different like he looked Rattily
doesn't look like the same guy.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
And I was a C. J.

Speaker 3 (42:50):
Stroud guy like I was bought in after the verion
of him that we saw his rookie season.

Speaker 2 (42:53):
So we'll see. They got to find a way to
get that trained back on the tracks.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Any other takeaways for the weekend, They want to make
sure we hit on before we move out.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
Do you want to get one take for tonight?

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Not really. The pat Steelers game was interesting one. We
talked about most games, but we can talk about Pat
Steelers the Pats. The Pats out gained the Steelers three
and six nine yards two hundred and three yards, but
the Pats had five turnovers and for those were fumbles.
I thought Drake made played a pretty good game. He
played good enough to win.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
But there was an interception at the end was top.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
The interception was good, but that was the only You
turn the bowl over four times off fumbles, three from
your your two starting running backs Antonio Gibson and Andrew
Stevenson had to himself it's like you can't you can't
rack up those fumbles in those moments, and you can't
win the game if you lose the turnover battle that badly.
So I wasn't overly impressed with Pittsburgh. But there's another
direction I want to go. And of course you were

(43:43):
avoiding this game because I will give you one opportunity
right now, one opportunity right now.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
This is it.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
It's the only topporunit. I'm gonna give you the rest
of the Mondays, the rest of the NFL season until
that guy's maybe in the super Bowl this year. Get
one opportunity, Sean Bernard, right now to admit that you
were wrong, dead wrong about Justin Herbert, who is a clear,
clear top five quarterback.

Speaker 2 (44:04):
In the league.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
See the thing is, Sam Austria. I'm never wrong. I'm
just daarly you relate. Relate, No, No, the history will
remember things on my side. Give it a couple of weeks,
wait till those playoffs, bright lights turn on. We've seen
Justin Herbert have good regular season games before. He absolutely
has played well to start this season. The pressure will come. Man,
I know what that guy, what his mental fortitude is.

(44:27):
I've seen the way that that dude completely folds every
time there is pressure on him. The pressure will be
rat today say.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
That, You say that, and you always point to the
playoff resume, which is fine, because he wasn't good in
the two playoff games.

Speaker 2 (44:37):
He's played the guy that is too much of an understatement.

Speaker 1 (44:40):
Yesterday okay, but yesterday was his thirteenth fourth quarter comeback
and seventeenth career game winning drive. That's clutch. That's result.
That's mental makeup and having that mental fortitude. Yeah, the
two playoff games were really ugly for sure, don't get
me wrong, but a lot of players Peyton Mannings played
really ugly playoff games throughout his career, and he broke
through and won a Super Bowl.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Justin thrown four interceptions in the playoff game. Peyton Manning
has won the third largest lead in NFL.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
He's had ugly playoff moments though. That's the point. That's
the point, And yeah, that's that's a different Justin Herbert.
What we're seeing this year in the regular season even
is a different Justin Hibbert. They're not even relying on
the run game. He's become a high volume passer. Through
the first few weeks, of the season and he's been
incredible at it. That throw that he made, yes Shay Yeah,
running to his left as a righty, turning back and

(45:24):
cocking that bowl. Someone hit his in pressure contested throw.
He was hit in the arm and just delivered a
dot to Keen Allen in the end zone to tie
that game up at twenty a piece. They get the
ball back, he leads another game winning drive, four game
winning field goal. This guy has been incredible this year.
I mean, right now, it's Lamar Jackson, it's Josh Allen,
and it's Justin Herbert. He's been the third best quarterback

(45:46):
in the NFL this year. Jones, No, Justin Herbert's been better.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
He has. Jones has been better than Justin Herbert.

Speaker 1 (45:52):
Oh, he is not looking at the competition. Justin Rivers
played the Chiefs, He's laid the Broncos. He's played old
who was the last guy in the division. They played
the Raiders. Yeah, they played. He's played three divisional games.
It's so hard to play three straight divisional games. And
I don't know why they scheduled it like that, and
he went three and Ozero. He has been better than
Daniel Jones. He's been incredible. This guy, this is a

(46:12):
new Justin Herbert.

Speaker 2 (46:13):
We're seeing Daniel Jones have been pretty impressive. Sam I
Sha Bikings.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
So the thing that I'll interject here, I am giving
a little bit of thought to the Madison beer bump.
I do think that there is something too, maybe that
this has changed the way this guy moves a little bit,
that there is a little more confidence in his skin
and bones there. So I'm giving a little bit of
thought to that. But no, I know how I feel
about Justin.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
That's why I'm giving this opportunity because there is an escape,
and that's the only excuse you're gonna have for how
wrong you were about Justin Herbert. That's an escape that
you can use, and use that spin zone wisely because
it's the only one you got right now. So that's
why I'm giving you one escape right now after week three.
But you're not taking it.

Speaker 3 (46:51):
I'm not taking it. I'm thrilled that they're off to
three and no start. I want to see this team
in the playoffs. I want to see what creative ways
Justin Herbert can find a blow. Postseason football games, we've
seen interception game, We've seen the crazy come from behind
victory he's allowed. I think this year could be the
fumble game that we might see six or seven fumbles from.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Justin umble as impossible.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
I mean, he threw four picks in a playoff game.
I thought that was impossible. So this guy's special, man,
this guy is a gifted blower of games that when
the moment gets large, he finds way to make sure
it is too big for him.

Speaker 2 (47:21):
I'm sure that will happen with this.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
It's it's it's such a small sample size. Two games,
and I'm not gonna he was bad in both of.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
Them, atrocious, the worst performer in playoff history type bat.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Two games, super small sample size. You're not going to
judge his playoff resume based on that. He's going to
emerge as a legitimate, great playoff quarterback with more opportunities,
and he's this is the best season of his career
through through three regular season games. But also will be
hoping in the MVP conversation by the by the time
the regular season ends, and then we'll see, after the

(47:53):
best regular season of his career what he does in
the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (47:57):
Yeah, we'll see.

Speaker 3 (47:58):
I do see the common shouted a cousin Nicki's saying
Juan so To or Justin Herbert, who's more fraudulent. So
Justin Herbert's Absolutely they're different. Like Wuan so Do is
way better at baseball than Justin Herbert is football. Start
there from like a loser perspective, like Justin Herbert can
ruin games for his team in a way that Wan
Soa just can't. Based on the sport, I think Sodo's

(48:19):
got more like loser attitude for like the way that
he carries himself than Herbert. But as far as like
impacting their team's performance, the ANSWER's got to be Herbert
that he can just derail.

Speaker 2 (48:28):
Kennan has just derailed games for his team.

Speaker 1 (48:30):
Now, look, I don't I don't. I'm not gonna go
into the Kuonsto argument. I don't really know that much
about it, but I will say there is no chance
in hell you're calling Justin Herbert a loser or fraudulent.
He had two bad playoff games. It's two games. He'll
be back and he'll prove everybody wrong this season. Even
though there will be rightful skepticism entering the playoffs. He
is not a fraud and he's not a loser. This
guy is incredible. He makes He makes throws that only

(48:52):
two or three guys on planet Earth are capable of making.

Speaker 3 (48:56):
We will see how this season. What this season hasn't
stored it's for Justin Herbert. But yeah, I am not
getting out of my corner of I know that a
truth will. We'll bring it out in there, so we'll see.
We'll see what spread like it turned up. But I
do want to wrap up with a little bit of
NBA conversation here. So the Kawhi Leonard saga has pretty
much dominated the off season of Late the biggest storyline

(49:17):
and really several years in the NBA. I would say
that we have some excellent reporting from Pobulatory on the
Pabulatory Finds Out podcast that just continues to dive deeper
and deeper into the paper trail of what seems to
be some cap circumnavigation from the Los Angeles Clippers to
pay Kawhi Leonard under the table through this aspiration saga.
You Sam have been pretty defensive of Steve Baumer and

(49:39):
the Clippers of this. Has your opinion changed on this
since more information has come out a little bit?

Speaker 1 (49:47):
It wasn't I always like that it wasn't. I was
saying that Steve Ballmer and defended Steve Ballmer like he
wasn't aware of any of it. I was skeptical of
the potential punishment because of you need more than circumstantial evidence.
And I don't think the NBA would want to punish,
like ideally that they don't want to punish and punish
anybody and they just want to move on from this

(50:08):
because it's it's obviously a black hole on the league.
I mean, Pablo Tory has done an incredible job just investigating,
digging into this, relentless with it, continuing to find new information.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
But he's saying that like in how he drops it too.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
Absolutely absolutely, and he's he's a brilliant guy, obviously, But
I also am not gonna like Pablotor was saying, this
is like the biggest uh moment of Adam Silver's commissioner tenure.
This is such a would be such an awful moment
for the league if they let Steve Bomber get away
with it. There are potential consequences if you do let

(50:44):
Steve Bomber get away with it, for which allow for
how other teams would potentially circumvent the cap and find
creative ways to do that, which is a competitive issue
that that's not okay, it's not good, But that's a
little too far to say. This is like the biggest
moment of Adam Silver's career. I'm still skept school of
the potential punishment. There's no doubt in my mind that
people at the highest level of the Clippers organization were very

(51:07):
aware of what was going on. Whether they were directly involved,
whether Steve Bummers in the meetings, whether there's a paper
drill actually connecting him necessarily, I don't know. Still, I
don't think that's necessarily come out as good as the
reporting has been. But there's no question the people at
the highest level of the organization were aware of it, which
is a problem. Yeah, they knew, they knew what it
was accomplishing to circumventd the cap. There's no question Uncle

(51:29):
Dennis Kawhai's main rep was was asking for things that
are just incredibly impermissible in the NBA, And this guy
was asking for ownership stakes and franchises. Players are not
allowed to Active players are not allowed to own ownership
stakes in franchise. What are you even? What world are
you living in? What Looney Tunes world. Is this where
even think that's allowed, where you would make that request.
So he's asked for some crazy stuff, and it makes

(51:51):
sense that the Clipper logically and rationally, it makes sense
that the Clippers would accommodate some of it to end
up landing Kawhi Leonard. So I'm no doubt that all
this has happened in Clippers are aware. The punishment is
where I'm still a little hesitant to what it will
be because what does it even look like, what's the evidence,
what's the level of evidence, what's the burden of proof

(52:12):
that the league has to find for them to actually
drop the hammer and have a huge punishment. That's where
I'm a little unsure of where the soul settles.

Speaker 3 (52:21):
Yeah, and that's been the most difficult question I've had
to answer to, is like, how do you punish this
For a guy like Steve Balmer who has all the
money in the world that define is not really gonna
do anything. For a team that doesn't even really have
draft capital, that have made a ton of trades, nor
have they drafted well in the past couple of years,
that's not really direction like, so how do you go
about it? I do just want to bring up your
overall point, like I'm in agreement with Pablo that I

(52:42):
do think this is the biggest deal that Adam Silver's
had to deal with. I think this threatens the integrity
of the entire NBA that if you have the salary
cap is in place for a reason, that if you
have teams that are like just ignoring that as what
seems to be the case with the Clippers, and I'm
in full I'm in full position right now that like
they just were fully aware of doing this. This was planned,

(53:04):
This was intentional. This was direct cap circumnavigation. I think
it's circumventioned by like circ navigation. Better there, I'm gonna
keep using that if that's the case, and all signs
points that being the case. To me, there has to
be a punishment here that other teams are going to
do this, and you don't want an arms race from
NBA ownership where it's just who has the deepest pockets

(53:25):
has the best team. We see that in professional soccer,
we see that in baseball where teams like the Mets
and Dodgers combining. That is not what the NBA wants
to turn over. It is a good thing that teams
like the Oklahoma City Thunder can win the.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Championship, which was the case last year.

Speaker 3 (53:38):
I bring this all up to say that I do
think that this needs to be a bring the hammer
type punishment. And the thing that I get, the thing
that I came up with is I think it has
to punish both the player and the team.

Speaker 2 (53:49):
I think Kawhi Leonard should be banned from the NBA.

Speaker 3 (53:52):
I think I'm completely serious right here. These are two
repeat customers with this issue that Kawhi there's let probably
don't even know about this, but you're responsible for your career.
I don't care that Uncle Dennis is the guy with
the seat at the table. You're cognizant of the things
that you're getting of what is hitting your bank account there.
He asked for it for the Raptors, he asked for
it for the Lakers, and for the Clippers. They got

(54:13):
in trouble for this before with DeAndre.

Speaker 1 (54:15):
Way more on the team though than it is the player.
Way more on the team. You can ask for the moon.
That doesn't mean the player can the team can actually
give it to you or should give it to you.
It is way more on the team. Banning Kawhi Leonard
from the NBA were serious right now, But we're the
Clippers given.

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Them getting forgetting this stuff.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
But it's the Clippers who gave it to him. They're
more responsible. They're the ones who who handed in the
keys to the castle, which they shouldn't have.

Speaker 3 (54:39):
And you don't think they're they get punished by their
best player not being allowed to play for them.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
I think avoiding Kawhi Leonard's contract is the best thing
that can possibly happen.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
I don't think you can do that though, because then
then he's just gonna sign with another team.

Speaker 2 (54:51):
He's going to ask for the moon and start.

Speaker 1 (54:53):
That's why I don't think it's gonna happen, because I
don't think it's gonna happen because of what you're saying.
Is that actually and if it's the Clippers, like the
Clippers should want Kawhi Leonard's contract voided, it's just been disaster.
They need to cut ties at this point, but it's
not really possible with the deal that he's on. So
if they avoid the contract that's actually benefiting the Clippers.
That's not really a punishment. And you're right, we'll just
sign with another team for sure, at a much lower

(55:15):
cost because we'll still be getting paid whatever he's getting
paid from the Clippers. But so so that's why it's
really tough because you can't really do that. Banning him
from the NBA is that's not even on the table
for anybody what they discover, And that's just a ridiculous proposal.
So that's not happening.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Why is that ridiculous though, because it's.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
More on the team than the player. Kawhi Leonard probably
wasn't even aware if why if you, yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Definitely was aware. He had to be aware.

Speaker 1 (55:42):
If you can get extra money from your employer and
they're willing to do it, why would you not?

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Is it's illegal money that it's directly against NBA rules
that he did not rules.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
The teams, all parties are responsible for following the NBA rules.
It's them, It's on them. They're the ones who are
or NAVI the cap and proposing ideas for how they're
gonna pay, the pay structure and player options all this stuff.
It's the team.

Speaker 3 (56:09):
I think it's both like both parties need to be punished.
Both parties are guilties and both are repeat offenders of this.
That both these the Clippers as a team have been
punished for this in the past. Kawhi has asked for
this exact type of deal in the past, which is
directly illegal. I think it's important to preserve the integrity
of the salary cap that if you want an even
playing field, which the NBA should, and every decision has

(56:30):
been based on this, this is a situation where you
have to make an example of this. I to me like,
this has to be a bring the hammer type punishment.
That's the cleanest thing that I can come with. That
I do think makes up for me.

Speaker 1 (56:41):
But it's got to be on the team, because when
you're talking about the competitive nature of the league and
keeping the competitiveness based on the bargaining negotiations and the
salary cap and all that stuff, you want to make
sure that teams don't do this again. So that punishment
has to be on the Clippers, and then they're team
to ensure that other teams would look around the league

(57:02):
at that punishment and say it's not worth it because
if we get caught, that punishment is so drastic that
doesn't That's not about Kawhi Leonard though, that's about you
make that statement by punishing the team, so other teams
look around and say, we don't want this.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
So in this situation here, I'm saying Kawhi Leonard can
never play basketball, but his salary cap is still on
the books there. That would be my double edged double
edged punishment here that I do think Kawhi needs to
individually pay a punishment for this, Like he cannot be
hands white clean. You're right that the team gave it
to him, and the team did this, they are at
the more guilty party in this, But like, this has

(57:36):
to be a two sided punishment. This just can't be
a thing where star players of Kawhi Leonard's like level
can just say, you know what I want all these
things that aren't allowed, and that becomes the norm that
has to be stopped.

Speaker 2 (57:47):
I think he needs to be punished too, Like I'm.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Not with you because I don't even know if Kawhi
Leonard fully knew what was going.

Speaker 2 (57:56):
On, but he had to, like you can't maybe a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
But he willn't involved in negotiations. He's not really involved
with that stuff. It's his team that doesn't. IM sure
he was probably aware. Why is so, like I don't
really care about that stuff that that's his team handling
it for him. That's always been his personality around the NBA.
So his team's been problematic for sure, And go back
to the Spurs days with the injury stuff and their

(58:20):
own doctors they're bring in, and lack of trust and
the Spurs doctors, all this stuff. His team's been really
problematic for sure, But that that's a reflection on his
team more than and the people he surround himself with
more than his him.

Speaker 3 (58:31):
They all got to stick to him, like neglig Negligence
is not a defense here in my opinion, Like I
don't care that you did not know or weren't directly involved.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
At the end of the day, he didn't break any rules.
The team broke the rules. He he also, why would
you not ask your employer for the moon? And it's
your responsibility and it's their responsibility to say, oh, no,
we can't do that, but we can give you this
or we can't do that. If they're saying yes to
your crazy ass, that's on the team. If you're trying
to get paid as an employee, you should be senior

(59:00):
employer for as much as possible, as much benefits, as
much everything as possible. It's on the it's on the
employer to say no.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
Why I think this is unique in that is because
this is not a situation where you know, Kawhi Leonard
like going back, Hey, I want to raise I want
more of this. This was a dude who directly like
picked his location based on the circumstances that he came
with baggage to Los Angeles. He said, I want Paul
George coming with me. I want all these you know,
special treatment and all these factors, private jet, all these

(59:28):
things that should not be allowed for star.

Speaker 2 (59:30):
Players and are literally illegal.

Speaker 3 (59:32):
This was like a like the negotiation was the illegal
act here, And I think, like that's important in the context.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
I just I think, I mean, can you admit that's
not happening. There's zero percent chances that's happening.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
I think probably not. I don't think it's zero, Like
there is.

Speaker 1 (59:48):
No I will never watch an NBA game again.

Speaker 2 (59:51):
We get at there yet you will?

Speaker 1 (59:52):
No, No, I mean I will. I'm saying like, like
as a bet, like that would be such a misery
for It's a big punishment for me that I would
never watch an NBA game again. If Kawhi Leonard is
banned from the NBA like that. It's just there's no
chance that's happening.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
I I just think, like that to me should be
on the table. This has this is a unique situation.
There is no precedent for how this should be treated,
like the Joe Smith thing like that they literally had
in writing the like basically that which is insane. I
think for the defense of Steve Ballmer in this, people
are like looking as if there's going to be a
slip that says, like I am going around the NBA

(01:00:26):
salary cap here, You're not gonna find that. I don't
know how much more evidence you need to see than
to just directly understand what is going on here.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Yeah again though, but like that, that's the burden of
proof is on the investigators.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
This isn't a court of law, though, Like, this isn't treated.

Speaker 1 (01:00:43):
Like it should be treated like that, you like, there
should be a belief of innocence until proven guilty. I
don't treat they don't have to like Adam Silver doesn't
have to treat like that. He's capable of of dropping
whatever punishments he wants based on his discretion. But in
my opinion, I'm looking at like the burden of proof
is on them that you should should be looking at
this like a court of law situation where that, yeah,
you have to prove that this actually happened.

Speaker 3 (01:01:05):
I think we got to use common sense. I'm more
of the common sense guy here, like there's just too much,
too much evidence, and.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
I don't I don't disagree with that, but I'm saying
for the extent of the punishment, like there has to
be some hard core evidence, there's no doubt in anybody's mind,
Like like the Tom Brady the Flakegate thing, when when
you look at that situation that that ended with it
was more likely than not. That was what the investigation is.
It was more likely than not. And that's and that
was just a blowning investigation. Who cares about this is

(01:01:35):
a bigger deal?

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Is big?

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
Yeah, of course, of course, who cares about being football
is being being deflate even though people were at the
time were acting like there was this massive competitive issue
and the league was at risk because Tom Brady wont
his football is a little more deflated. But the point
is that that they was found it was more likely
than not. The terminology for a case like this better
be stronger than it's more likely than not that they
circumvented the cat through this maneuver, it better be that

(01:01:59):
they is undeniable proof and evidence if you're gonna drop
the hammer, and if they don't find that, if they
find that it's more likely than not, then yeah, maybe
Duckham a cup of a few second round picks. Find
Steve Balmer, which will be pocket chains for him, has
to be a first round pick at It has to
be multiple not if not, if you only find not,
if the investigation doesn't find concrete evidence that this one

(01:02:21):
hundred percent happened, And what would that need.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
To look like for you? What would what would change
your opinion? What would the smoking gun in your mind
be for this type of situation? Because I think I
have mine, Like I think what I've seen is enough.

Speaker 1 (01:02:32):
It would need to be something that that really showed
that Steve Baumer was aware of what was going on.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
And like a signed letter from the Los Angeles Clippers
organization and donation of two million dollars on the same
day that he's paid one point seven five million dollars
is not enough of a smoking gun for well.

Speaker 1 (01:02:49):
Mark, Don't It wasn't the same day, It wasn't like
two weeks prior.

Speaker 3 (01:02:53):
So something that I think it was the same day.
I'm pretty sure the same.

Speaker 1 (01:02:56):
Day, maybe it was. But Mark Cuban's defensive that. And look,
I've been reading a lot with Mark Cubans had to
say in response.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
By the way, I think Mark Evans guilty of this
in the past as well. I'll throw that out there.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
Why just because of how strong he's defending it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
Take a look at his Derrek Novitzky contracts in the
twilight year of his career.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Well, why what about them?

Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Just if you go down the years, like it's like
five million, four million, twenty one million, nine million, five million,
and there's all these articles about how much you know
Derek is not, you know, sacrificing for the team.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
I think Mark Euban took care of his guy a
little bit. I don't know that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:29):
But again, again, everybody does this in the in the NBA,
not to this level. But yes, but you're blaming like
Mark Cuban, like like he did it, Like yeah, everyone
does this almost all a lot, not almost all, but
a lot of star players have sponsorship deals with main sponsors.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
Of the team that million dollars do nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Kwis is certainly excessive, and that's where the red flag
comes in. But teams do this all the time. When
you say Mark Cuban did it, teams do this? The
teams like, this is how they do, whether it's a
hand and shake agreement or not. It's not like some
unheard of thing for players to have sponsorship deals with
other NBA teams. So I'm not like taking the defense
of them a complete sign with Mark Cuban. But to

(01:04:10):
the point that you said earlier with the wire deposit
around the same day, Mark Trubman's defense was that these
are quarterly payments, so it's not like unheard of for that.
For it's like, oh, right before he got his money.
It's not unheard of for that to happen on a
day where the wire transfer went through.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
Except the coincidence there is that the quarter payment was
already or the quarterly payment was already late, and it
took into a stimulus check basically from the Los Angeles
Clippers directly eventually ended up in Kuilin and his bank
account there like there's okay.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
But again again, a signed letter from the Clippers, isn't
isn't like Steve Bomber was spearheading this and he hun
knew about it, Like Steve Bomber probably wiped his hands
cleans by saying, do not involve me at all. Like
there's a million things that he signs all the time.
He's not actually signing, people are doing for them, people
are handling all this stuff. He's an insanely busy guy.

(01:05:04):
And then that's that's just part of being a billionaire
of his magnitude, where you're not in the thek nooks
and crooks of all these deals, which is how he
was actually hoodwinked and and bamboozled in the first place
about this whole experiment with Aspiration and why he donated,
why he donated money to a fraudulent organization.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
This is where I'm at is, Like I'll put it
this way.

Speaker 3 (01:05:24):
I don't mean any disrespect to Pablo Torre, but if
Pablo can find all this and the NBA now has
the leverage of like you have to defend yourself here,
like you have to provide evidence of like at the minimum,
you gotta answer some questions here, buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Yeah, that's my problem with it. Of course they're gonna
talk to him and everyone involved with the Clippers at
the highest level and investigate it. He doesn't have to
provide evidence. The burn of proof is on the league.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
I disagree. I think we're past that that like.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
This is what we're said that as prest commence too,
like that that's how any investigations were a criminal or
court of law or not.

Speaker 3 (01:05:56):
But the common sense, I'm a common sense guy, Like
there's too much smoke.

Speaker 1 (01:06:01):
I don't disagree. I'm not disagreeing. I'm only pushing back
on the potential punishment. I don't think it should be
drastic unless, like common sense rationally. Of course, yeah, he
probably didn't know, But you can't punish the guy drop
the hammer unless that there's real, concrete evidence above circumstantial.

Speaker 2 (01:06:19):
I think you can, and I think you have to.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Like I really do feel that, like there is too
much to this. This has to be a make an
example type situation. And even if Steve Balmer can find
a way to completely wash his hands of this situation,
whatever happens to the Clippers organization is still a reflection
of Steve Balmer that he still bears the responsibility for
what goes down within the walls of this organization. Whether
it was your chief of marketing that signed that letter,

(01:06:43):
whether it was the minority owner who also donated two
million dollars, whether it was Balmber directly here.

Speaker 2 (01:06:49):
This is not a court of law.

Speaker 3 (01:06:51):
This is the NBA's entire entity now and they have
to defend like the whole integrity up.

Speaker 1 (01:06:57):
Yeah, I mean, look, but it'll be interesting, mynor. I'm
glad we're gonna be talking about basketball moving forward other
than that this is this is It's just it is
a stain on the NBA. And the thing is it
will die down. And that's the thing. Because the Clippers
are hosting the All Star Game this year, no chance
to coming out with resolution before the first All Star
Game and into it, which is crazy. I mean, right,

(01:07:19):
that's business.

Speaker 3 (01:07:21):
But I just like the entire NBA should feel dirty
about this, the entire NBA should, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
We'll we'll see, we'll see what they come up with.
It's going to die down, and Problatoria is stayed resilient
with it, but it's certainly going to die down as
the games pick up and now as their storylines, as
Joel Embiid isn't playing the first game and he's ramping
up and all these things happen, We're actually be talking
about NBA storylines.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
As at there, we're gonna be talking.

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
About it this week. So as so as as NBA
storylines actually happen, this will die down and it won'tet
as much of And maybe that's a good and that not.
Maybe it is a good thing for the NBA. But
they have they hired independent organization to lead the investigation,
and we'll see what comes from it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:10):
Yeah, And we will see.

Speaker 3 (01:08:11):
And I'll just note like, if there is not a
punishment here, you better believe that twenty nine other teams
are going to be investing in some fraudulent organizations intentionally
moving forward. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:20):
But also at the same time, even there's not a punishment,
that there will have been a massive investigation and teams
will know that the NBA will be on higher alert
with this stuff. It will be feels a lot closer
this time, so it'll be much harder to get away
with regardless.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
But if there is not a punishment, there is now
a precedent set for how these situations are handled, So
we'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
I don't think there's gonna be no punishment. I just
don't think it's gonna be drastic.

Speaker 2 (01:08:44):
Yeah, and we will see. We'll keep this conversation flowing.
I do agree.

Speaker 3 (01:08:47):
I'm happy that we ought to talk some on court
basketball product in the pretty near future, but we will
see what happens behind the scenes with that. I'm very
curious how this investigation goes. Say many final words on
KWHI Leonard of the NFL, or anything else before sign
off here.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
I don't think so. I mean, media Day starts tomorrow
for a lot of organizations around the league. The NBA
season's back, Like we're gonna be talking football every Monday
as these weeks pile up, but we're also gonna be
hitting a lot of NBA so these shows might get
a little long knife to pump up the start time
and we'll be here for you every Monday morning.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
That's right, So we're back. Make sure you keep it
locked to the dial right here on Fox Sports. The
Gambler appeciate, appreciate you tuning in for myself, Shan Barnard
and Sam Austrey here. Keep a lock for what's coming
up next when we're back talk with you next time.

Speaker 2 (01:09:27):
Pease spreads total and all the prop that's in the Twins.

Speaker 1 (01:09:31):
It's The Gambler