August 7, 2025 • 30 mins
The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention is a voluntary health organization that advocates for research and education around suicide, based in New York City, with a public policy office based in Washington, D.C. The organization's stated mission is to "save lives and bring hope to those affected by suicide." https://afspwalks.donordrive.com/pages/2497
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
And welcome in. This is a public affairs program shedding
the light on the interest, issues, and concerns of the
greater Pittsburgh area. Good morning, My name is Johnny Hartwell.
Today's topic is well American Foundation of Suicide Prevention. We
have Doug Bishop back in the studio. Dog, How are.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You good, Johnny, Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Good to see you again.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
To see you too.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Oh, how are you been good?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah? Good, all good?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
All right. We're going to be talking about Pittsburgh's Out
of Darkness Walk, which is coming up on September sixth
at high Mark Stadium. I know we're going to be
talking a lot about the event, but kind of start
about the tell us about the organization.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
First, sure AFSP, The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention was
created back in the early eighties by just a small
group of people, and in that period of time until today,
it's expanded into all fifty states, including Washington, d C.
And Puerto Rico. There's now I believe it's seventy four
(00:59):
chapters across the country. We are the Western Pennsylvania Chapter,
the rest of the state has the Eastern PA Chapter,
and the Philadelphia chapter is separate because Philadelphia's deserves their
own chapter, right, number of these communities have their own walk,
and we'll talk about some of the area ones, but
(01:20):
kind of tell us your role with the organization. I
became involved after I lost my son to suicide in
January of fourteen. I got on the board about a
year and a half later in July of fifteen, and
have been on the ward since. I serve as treasure
I was a CPA for over forty years, so that's
(01:43):
the natural fit for me. If you will, you're I'm
a numbers guy, so I've helped the chapter keep track
of everything and just honestly watch the growth. It's been
pretty phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Well, you might have started with a numbers guy, but
you are. You definitely have a knack for advocacy and
talking about the the organization, and I give you credit
for that.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Thank you. Yeah, I do. I uh yeah, It's just
it's a cause I'm super passionate about now. I think
after a long period of time, you make a decision
of you know what you want to do with it,
and mine was to do everything I possibly can to
get this as the name of our walk is out
(02:26):
of the darkness and get people to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
You know, it kind of has a cob name out
of Darkness, but it's important to save lives and bring
hope to people, right.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And the idea the reason it was called that was
is it's in the darkness. We don't talk about it,
so we really want to bring it out of the darkness.
But it also initially started and they still do it annually.
There's an annual out of little literal out of the
Darkness walk where we start at you know, dusk and
(02:58):
walk until dawn. Okay, yeah, so there is an annual big,
huge walk that does that one as well.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Now this organization is national, but you're the local chapter.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Right, correct, Western Pennsylvania Chapter.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
All right, let's talk a little bit about the event
high Mark Stadium September sixth, But you have other walks
as well.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
We do. We've got a walk literally every week from
early September through early October. As you said, the Pittsburgh
walk is on the sixth at High March Stadium down
the Station Square area. The following week on the thirteenth,
we've got a walk in Cambria County. The week after
that up in Lovely Erie on the twentieth, Right, there
(03:38):
at Presque Isle one down in Washington, PA in the
twenty seventh and we wrap it up on the fourth
of October and Lawrence.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Now September is actually suicide prevention month. Correct, Yeah, that
is correct, because that's why a lot of them are incept.
That is exactly what which is a busy, busy, busy,
busy month for a lot of nonprofits is you're no different.
So what do you want to accomplish with the walk?
What's your goal.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
With the walk? Obviously it's to raise money. Without funds,
we can't really do anything, so it's our largest fundraiser.
But it also from my experience of being at the
first one that I went to back in twenty fourteen,
which was about eight months after I lost my son,
was give a somewhat of a safe space, if you will,
(04:24):
for others to gather that they realize they're not alone
in their grief and other people have gone through what
they're going through, so it's just a comforting feeling for them.
It's a day of hope as well as fundraising. We
just want to provide hope to everybody that's a loss survivor,
but it also breaks that stigma well, that's exactly what
(04:46):
we need to do more than anything else, is break
the stigma. So we start to talk about mental health
like it's just plain old health. You know, we're dealing
with your brain, which is an organ likee and your
body like your heart and your lungs. So I'd prefer
to start seeing us talk about it like that rather
than making it such a hush hush topic, because it's
(05:09):
a very serious topic. As far as you know, the
highest ranking issues for death. It's you know, in the
age groups of ten all the way up to the
mid thirties, it's the second and third leading cause of death,
and a lot of people don't realize that, but it is.
(05:31):
It's a fact, and so we want to bring that
out of the darkness and talk about that and try
to save lives by talking about it. If we can
reduced the stigma, I feel very certain we can save
some lives.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well, here I am talking about reducing stigma, but it's
also a sensitive topic. So I'm reluctant to ask certain questions, right,
And that's that's a natural kind of thing it is.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But what we have learned is that if you have
a friend fa remember whomever that you have a feeling
is really going through some struggles and might actually be
thinking about taking their life. To directly ask them if
they are thinking, that doesn't trigger them. It actually helps
(06:16):
them because now somebody's listening, and if you can get
them to at least get to that stage with it,
you might be able to save that life.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
You joined the organization very pretty soon after you lost
your son? What what was it? Was it therapeutic? Was
it was it comforting? Was it was it you looking
for somebody to talk to?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yes? Yes, and yes. Yeah. The walk was the first
thing that I went to, and again that was about
eight months after wasn't going to do it, but decided
to just go ahead and do it, and was real
happy that I did. Honestly, like I said earlier, it
just made me aware that I wasn't alone, that there
(07:05):
are other people out there going through the same kind
of thing. So that was step one. And then I
started to you know, read more about the organization itself
and got more interested in the topic of suicide prevention.
And then I went to another event that is probably
the second biggest event that we do, which is the
(07:28):
Survivors of Suicide Loss Day, which is always the Saturday
before Thanksgiving every year, so it's coming up, you know,
a couple of months. But I went to that event,
and that event was the one that really got me
interested in the organization as far as participating and volunteering
and eventually get on the board. That day. All the
(07:52):
things that are floating in your mind as a survivor,
there's so many issues, you know, guilt, what could I
have done? You know, all kinds of thing, and a
very sensitive one is relief that you don't have to
deal with some of these things anymore. And I really
struggled with that one. It's sort of akin to a
(08:14):
lot of people that care for their parents get older
and then away, which is natural. Then you feel the relief.
Well this was a little bit unnatural in the order here,
but yes, there was some relief. And they brought that
up in that Survivor's Day meeting, and I'm like, these
guys really get it. They understand what we go through.
(08:38):
And so I sat through a breakout session talking with
other parents who had lost their kids.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I was all in, you know, and sometimes I used
to jokingly say, you don't know what it's like to
be married until you're married. You don't know what it's
like to have a child until you have a child
and you're facing the same thing, don't. People don't have
a real serious grasp of what somebody goes through if
(09:07):
they've lost somebody.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's very different. It's very different. I mean, both my
parents are gone, my grandparents are gone. Yeah, aunts and
uncles are you know, a lot of them are gone.
That's natural progression. But to lose a child at twenty one,
it's it's extremely shocking. It shakes up your entire life.
(09:31):
Everything changes. Everything now is sort of like pre and
post their death, because your world's flipped upside down and
you're a totally different person. Now, you can work through it,
and I think I've worked through it pretty strongly. And
you know, there's an interesting book that I read that
(09:51):
kind of aligns with another event that I went to.
We do the Survivor's Day, but the National Organization has
now been putting on long term Survivor's Day, specifically for
people that are out several years. They're looking at five
to seven years or more out from that loss. Because
(10:11):
things change, Things change. So I went to.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
That can you explain a little bit?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I will? I went to that particularly event, and when
I was reading of all the topics for discussion that day,
there was one that I had purchased a book about
the topic because I was basically told to, because I
was told, you're the poster child for this event or
(10:36):
for this topic, and I'm like, I don't even know
what the topic is, but okay. So it's called post
traumatic growth. And the book that I purchased is called
Upside and get it on Amazon, and it talks specifically
about this topic. And they talked specifically about it again
in this long term Survivor's Day, and it's basically, when
(11:02):
you've been through something that traumatic, being around other First
of all, being around others that have been through something
very very similar is extremely healing because we all get
it and if we can all grow together, then we
can all be an even bigger and better version of
(11:23):
ourselves and be growing as individuals.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
If somebody is listening right now who's recently lost somebody
or or had a loved one, try.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
To try to strive.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
And what do you if you were to say, hey,
come to this walk, what will they gain? What will
they what will they receive by going?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I would hope that they would receive hope that there
is you know, a future here for you. Yeah, life
is going to be very different, but you can get
through this. And also just to see everybody else there
is very empowering, you know people, it's it's a day
(12:11):
of a whole lot of hugs. You know, everybody that's
there is meeting other other groups. You'll see people walking
teams that day. Everybody that has a really big team
seems to create their own T shirts and you'll see
like a group of green T shirts over here, or
a group of yellow ones over here, and they all
(12:33):
have their loved one, you know, photo of their loved
one maybe on their on the front of their shirt,
or some saying or something or their team name or whatever,
and it just it just provides some camaraderie. You may
make a connection to somebody you can talk to that's
going through similar things, and I think it's very healing.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It's a club. It's a club you don't want.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
To it's a club. Yeah, we always say it's a
club you don't want to be a member of.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
But you're in are But you're in a very safe
space because these are that stigma is is off.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
The takes off the table. It's yeah, everybody's everybody's either lost,
somebody going through their own personal struggles, struggles, or there
to support friends and family.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
All right, let's not get too far without mentioning the
Pittsburgh Out of Darkness Walk, which is coming up on
September sixth high Mark Stadium. Saves Lives brings a lot
of hope. If somebody wants more information, do you have
a website?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
We do. The national website is AFSP dot org. If
you type that in and after that's put a slash
western Pennsylvania, you will go to our website and we
have on there all these events that we have lined up,
all the walks, volunteering opportunities, educational opportunities, everything's right there
and you have the opportunity to sign up. Now.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
You also have information on the website if if somebody
you're if somebody a loved one or acquaintances is your
concerns and has information about that as well.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yes, it'll probably directly direct you to the national website.
For instance, we we we have something called Healing Conversations
where we offer opportunities to talk one on one to
a loss survivor. If you're interested in something like that
it'll direct you to the national website and they'll put
you in touch with a chapter.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Do you have a hotline number for a suicide prevention
hotline number or as.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
A well, we're we always suggest everybody used nine to
eight eight, which is the new nine to one one.
It's been around now for a few years. So we
would always suggest using that you can call. You can
also text.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Okay, Now, eighty three cents of every donor dollar directly
supports four focus areas, research, education, support, and advocacy. Correct,
let's let's talk about research. What, what does the what
does your organization do and what do you what are
you researching? What are you finding out?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
We are the number one private funder of research in
the country. US governments above us, but that's it. So
what we do is we fund research into various topics
related to suicide suicide prevention. Many of those recipients of
our grants are right here at UPMC and PITT. One
(15:17):
in particular, that's here that was a recent study is
one that was done looking at sleep and how lack
of sleep affects kids mostly, but it also looks at
US adults. As you nod your head, yes, it's.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Somebody who starts work at five am. But I'm very
I'm very disciplined when it comes to sleep because I
know how important it is.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Well, sleep hygiene is very important. But the study has
shown that lack of sleep for young kids causes anxiety
and depression. Because they're kind of kissing cousins if you will,
they typically run together. So what we've actually seen is
because of that study, there are some schools in the
(16:07):
area that have changed their start times for kids.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
So like the young kids in elementary school, kindergarten, they
typically are not going to like eight or nine o'clock,
and these poor high school kids who've been studying all night,
they have to get up and catch their bus before
seven am.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I grew up in Lawrence County and a lot of
the people were busted in an hour, hour and a
half dry, right, so it's even worse. It's even worse, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
So we've seen the change. We've seen the flip o
car where the younger kids are now going earlier because hey,
let's face it, they're up at the crack addle anyway,
get them out of the house and into school. Love
your kids. Yeah, But so now the teenagers are going
a little bit later and get a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Sleep, them have like sporting events or extracurricular activities, and
they're staying up later and they have to study and
then so it's tough to get out of early. So
that makes a lot of sense, which leads into the
next pillar, which is education.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Right education, Our national organization creates all the Asia educational
programs that we present and we present them literally to anybody,
any time, any place, anywhere. They're free. We do not
charge for any of them. And you know, the most
popular one we have is called Talk Saves Lives, and
(17:25):
the idea there is to talk to people that you
have a feeling might be having some struggles to you know,
help them and try to convince them to get the
help they need.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And because of the stigma, that's a that's a roadblock too.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
That is that is a road block, it is, and
so you know, the big thing in the room is
that big elephant in the room is the stigma, and
we have to get that reduced in order to even
begin talking, right and so we all but it's sort
of like if we don't talk, we're not going to
reduce the stigma. So we got to start somewhere. So
(17:57):
let's talk.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Do you find people are still reluctant to talk about it,
even you know, even though they go to the walk
and they participate in you know, therapy sessions and things
like that, you still see that, you know, individuals still
having that reluctance to talk about the subject.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I see the reluctance if they haven't lost somebody. Once
you've lost somebody, it's almost all you want to talk
about about. What you can do to prevent this so
it doesn't happen to somebody else, got it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Support, that's going to be important. That's the third pillar, right.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Our support is what we call the loss and Healing
section of our organization, and the like I said earlier,
the key event that we have is the Saturday before
Thanksgiving coming up soon, So if you'd like to register
for that event, go to our website again AFSP dot
org slash Western Pennsylvania sign up for it. It is
(18:55):
the international so it's the same day across the world
and definitely for AFSP, it's the same day for everybody
in every state. And we have a Survivors of Suicide
Loss Day, so it's for those that have lost somebody.
We also call this post vention, not just suicide prevention,
(19:16):
but after the fact, what can we do to help
those that have lost somebody that might be struggling.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
And that you wanted me that this would probably be
a good time. We mentioned you wanted me to ask
you about caring communities. Is that part of that?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It is? It definitely is, and caring communities is something
new that we're in the starting stages of getting ready
to bring it out. We're now doing some training sessions
for everybody so that we can understand to talk about it.
So it's sort of a combination of loss in healing
and education. The biggest thing that we did in the
Lost and Healing section besides the Survivor's Day was the
(19:54):
healing conversations, which are one on one discussions. This is
more of a teaching top that we would present to.
You know, a group of people could be a community,
could be literally a family that maybe lost somebody and
helping them through that postvention process of how to deal
(20:14):
with the loss. And it's important for people to know
how to help their friends and family to get through
the loss too.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
You've it's been what fourteen years since you lost.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Years twenty fourteen. So it's eleven.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Eleven years, eleven years, and you talked about you know
that never goes away that.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
No, no, it doesn't. Every day, every day you think
about them, but it goes from this point of really
just pain in your whole body, if you will, down
to over a long time, to a controllable level where
there's still pain, but it's controllable. You can deal with it,
(20:56):
you can cope with it, and you just move on.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I'm talking with Doug Bishop of the American Foundation of
Suicide Prevention.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
There.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Out of Darkness Walk is coming up on September sixth,
high Mark Stadium. If you need more information, to the
website again.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
AFSP dot org, forward slash Western Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So even talking to you, I want to be sensitive
to you know what you've gone through and so, but
yet I think it's important that we have these kind
of conversations.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yes, yeah, I think as far as I'm concerned, I'm
far enough removed from the loss that I can talk
about pretty much everything. But the one thing that I
don't want to talk about to anybody else is things
like methodology, like how they went about taking their life.
(21:49):
It's nobody's business, and it could be triggering for somebody
else that's in the conversation. So a lot of times
we will have at our Survivor's Day event starts talking
about the methodology and we have to very politely stop
them and remind them that there are generally about seventy
five other people in their room and you don't want
(22:10):
to talk about methodology because you might harm them and
you know, kick them into a triggered situation, and we
just don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
We don't want to do that. I don't want to
do that, but we do want to bring up the
topic if there's somebody that you're concerned about that you
said earlier that it's almost a relief to them if
you say, have you thought about harming yourself?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Right? Right? But there's like there's a campaign that we
do generally that's in the like the twenty and thirty
year olds campaign. It's called Seize the Awkward. There's lots
of videos on YouTube and across the internet, and so
you're seizing the awkward moment. And the real kind of
shortened version of the video is let's say two guys,
you and me sitting on a couch or watching a
(22:52):
football game, and I'm looking at you and I'm like, Johnny,
you're awfully quiet lately. There's something done on your mind.
So you're season that awkward moment because you know something's
just not quite right. So you see is an awkward moment.
You talk about it, and you directly asked the question
if you feel as you feel like they might be
(23:14):
considering to take.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
You there, if there's a possibility, if there's a possibility
affording the subject, you're not you're not helping, not helping anybody.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
A lot of people think if you ask somebody, you
bring up the topic to somebody that may be considering it,
that you're actually pushing them more towards it. Now research
has shown that it's actually the opposite. You're actually getting
them to talk about it, and you could get them
to the point where maybe I could convince you if
we were sitting on a counch you were struggling, that
(23:44):
you should go talk to somebody.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Tell me about the Pittsburgh community. Is there a certain
demographic Is there certain ages that are more you know, potant.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, we're not too far off from the national demographics.
So it's again male versus female. It's more males. We
are Unfortunately, there's a it's a second leading and third
leading cause of death in the younger population. It's eleventh
overall for all ages included. As far as you see,
(24:17):
there's some higher risk communities. The LGBTQ community is very
high risk and unfortunately we've seen a loss of funding
in the nine eight eight phone number area. So if
you were to doll at nine eight eight, you would
be asked what who would you like to talk to?
(24:37):
And now it's was a number three you would push
to get to LGBTQ help, and they're eliminating the funding
there for whatever reason. So that's still a very high
risk community. The black community we're seeing a higher risk.
There a higher risk in the Latino community as well.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Lower income or is it it is?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I don't there's not a whole lot of demographics showing
that there's a lot of difference in an income because
it is health related, but there could be some triggers
perhaps because you don't have much income that you can't
you know, if you're homeless or things like that that
could also you know, account for it.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
We talked a little bit about the four focus areas.
We talked research, education, and support.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Let's talk advocacy, advocacy, advocacy. We were just in Harrisburg
and justin Washington, d C. In the past couple of months.
So we're there talking directly to health members, senators, staff,
et cetera about laws that we would like to see
(25:43):
you know, changed voted on in a positive direction for
mental health. You know, the biggest one is the one
we've already mentioned a couple of times is nine to
eight eight. We were very, very involved in getting that
change made so that now there's a separate nine to
one one nine eight eight just for mental health problems.
(26:03):
And they've seen a huge increase in calls in the
in the period of time that that's been around and
a drop on the nine on one side. So that's
exactly what was the hope. Yeah, so people that are
there can get the help they need by calling nine
eight eight.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Do you have any inroads on funding and is there
help from Washington or Harrisburg to help you guys?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
We're seeing a little bit unfortunately, there's been so many
funding cuts and the one I mentioned on uh, you know,
the doll three for nine eight eight, that funding has
dropped to almost none. Uh, they've canceled that three so
we don't like seeing that, but they're still funding out
there for other causes. So, you know, we're seeing things like,
(26:53):
for instance, we see that unfortunately, a fair amount of
folk will take their lives out in the woods, parks,
et cetera, because there's nobody else around and it's quiet.
So we have actually had nine to eight eight signs
posted in a lot of local parks.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, So it's even vital that
you know that you have fundraisers light the Out of
Darkness Walk and not only are you looking to advocate,
advocate and then support the people who have gone through
this process, but to raise money.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Oh absolutely. Without money, we can't do anything, unfortunately, so
we want to raise as much as we can. That's
the important thing. There's some funding that comes from the government,
but almost all of the funding for AFSP comes from
walks just like this, where you and I digging in
our pockets to help the cause. That's what makes the difference. Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And so when it comes to sponsorship or you know, participation,
you know, what what are you asking.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
The community to do to help show up?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Walk. We don't require any minimums, there's no fees. So
if you just feel like you want to walk because
it's healthy for you to do so and participate in,
please just come out. But if you would like to
really help us by donating some funds, we'd be real
happy to have you do that. And again you can
go to our website look for the Pittsburgh Walk and
(28:24):
you can donate on your own. If you'd like to
bring a group of friends and create a walk team
and have your friends also get some donors as well.
There are some prizes for for you know, donating so
much money, so we're happy to get you involved in
that too. But it would really help and it makes
a huge difference to Jenneral.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Now, September is a suicide prevention month. The Out of
Darkness Walk is high Mark Stadium September sixth, But we
have other ones in the area we do, all right,
you want to quickly mentioned that quickly.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
We have Cambria on September thirteenth, Eriie on September twentieth,
Washington County on September twenty seventh, and Lawrence County on
October fourth, and the website once again AFSP dot org
Forward slash Western Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Doug Bishop of American Foundation of Suicide Prevention. It's always
a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Good luck with you of that pleasure for me, Johnny,
thank you for having me all right.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
If you have any comments, concerns, or an idea for
our future program, please email us from this radio station's website.
I'm Johnny Heartwell, thank you so much for listening. Don't
(29:38):
act like that, don't wear that, don't think that. I've
heard everything you tell yourself every time you felt different,
and I want you to know that you can be
vulnerable and powerful. That taking care of your mind is
taking care of everyone you love and who loves you
(30:00):
your mind. Find mental health resources at Loveyourmind Today dot org.
Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Institute in
the AD Council
And welcome in. This is a public affairs program shedding
the light on the interest, issues, and concerns of the
greater Pittsburgh area. Good morning, My name is Johnny Hartwell.
Today's topic is well American Foundation of Suicide Prevention. We
have Doug Bishop back in the studio. Dog, How are.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
You good, Johnny, Thanks for having me again.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Good to see you again.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
To see you too.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Oh, how are you been good?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yeah? Good, all good?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
All right. We're going to be talking about Pittsburgh's Out
of Darkness Walk, which is coming up on September sixth
at high Mark Stadium. I know we're going to be
talking a lot about the event, but kind of start
about the tell us about the organization.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
First, sure AFSP, The American Foundation for Suicide Prevention was
created back in the early eighties by just a small
group of people, and in that period of time until today,
it's expanded into all fifty states, including Washington, d C.
And Puerto Rico. There's now I believe it's seventy four
(00:59):
chapters across the country. We are the Western Pennsylvania Chapter,
the rest of the state has the Eastern PA Chapter,
and the Philadelphia chapter is separate because Philadelphia's deserves their
own chapter, right, number of these communities have their own walk,
and we'll talk about some of the area ones, but
(01:20):
kind of tell us your role with the organization. I
became involved after I lost my son to suicide in
January of fourteen. I got on the board about a
year and a half later in July of fifteen, and
have been on the ward since. I serve as treasure
I was a CPA for over forty years, so that's
(01:43):
the natural fit for me. If you will, you're I'm
a numbers guy, so I've helped the chapter keep track
of everything and just honestly watch the growth. It's been
pretty phenomenal.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Well, you might have started with a numbers guy, but
you are. You definitely have a knack for advocacy and
talking about the the organization, and I give you credit
for that.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Thank you. Yeah, I do. I uh yeah, It's just
it's a cause I'm super passionate about now. I think
after a long period of time, you make a decision
of you know what you want to do with it,
and mine was to do everything I possibly can to
get this as the name of our walk is out
(02:26):
of the darkness and get people to talk about it.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
You know, it kind of has a cob name out
of Darkness, but it's important to save lives and bring
hope to people, right.
Speaker 2 (02:36):
And the idea the reason it was called that was
is it's in the darkness. We don't talk about it,
so we really want to bring it out of the darkness.
But it also initially started and they still do it annually.
There's an annual out of little literal out of the
Darkness walk where we start at you know, dusk and
(02:58):
walk until dawn. Okay, yeah, so there is an annual big,
huge walk that does that one as well.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Now this organization is national, but you're the local chapter.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Right, correct, Western Pennsylvania Chapter.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
All right, let's talk a little bit about the event
high Mark Stadium September sixth, But you have other walks
as well.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
We do. We've got a walk literally every week from
early September through early October. As you said, the Pittsburgh
walk is on the sixth at High March Stadium down
the Station Square area. The following week on the thirteenth,
we've got a walk in Cambria County. The week after
that up in Lovely Erie on the twentieth, Right, there
(03:38):
at Presque Isle one down in Washington, PA in the
twenty seventh and we wrap it up on the fourth
of October and Lawrence.
Speaker 1 (03:45):
Now September is actually suicide prevention month. Correct, Yeah, that
is correct, because that's why a lot of them are incept.
That is exactly what which is a busy, busy, busy,
busy month for a lot of nonprofits is you're no different.
So what do you want to accomplish with the walk?
What's your goal.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
With the walk? Obviously it's to raise money. Without funds,
we can't really do anything, so it's our largest fundraiser.
But it also from my experience of being at the
first one that I went to back in twenty fourteen,
which was about eight months after I lost my son,
was give a somewhat of a safe space, if you will,
(04:24):
for others to gather that they realize they're not alone
in their grief and other people have gone through what
they're going through, so it's just a comforting feeling for them.
It's a day of hope as well as fundraising. We
just want to provide hope to everybody that's a loss survivor,
but it also breaks that stigma well, that's exactly what
(04:46):
we need to do more than anything else, is break
the stigma. So we start to talk about mental health
like it's just plain old health. You know, we're dealing
with your brain, which is an organ likee and your
body like your heart and your lungs. So I'd prefer
to start seeing us talk about it like that rather
than making it such a hush hush topic, because it's
(05:09):
a very serious topic. As far as you know, the
highest ranking issues for death. It's you know, in the
age groups of ten all the way up to the
mid thirties, it's the second and third leading cause of death,
and a lot of people don't realize that, but it is.
(05:31):
It's a fact, and so we want to bring that
out of the darkness and talk about that and try
to save lives by talking about it. If we can
reduced the stigma, I feel very certain we can save
some lives.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Well, here I am talking about reducing stigma, but it's
also a sensitive topic. So I'm reluctant to ask certain questions, right,
And that's that's a natural kind of thing it is.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
But what we have learned is that if you have
a friend fa remember whomever that you have a feeling
is really going through some struggles and might actually be
thinking about taking their life. To directly ask them if
they are thinking, that doesn't trigger them. It actually helps
(06:16):
them because now somebody's listening, and if you can get
them to at least get to that stage with it,
you might be able to save that life.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
You joined the organization very pretty soon after you lost
your son? What what was it? Was it therapeutic? Was
it was it comforting? Was it was it you looking
for somebody to talk to?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Yes? Yes, and yes. Yeah. The walk was the first
thing that I went to, and again that was about
eight months after wasn't going to do it, but decided
to just go ahead and do it, and was real
happy that I did. Honestly, like I said earlier, it
just made me aware that I wasn't alone, that there
(07:05):
are other people out there going through the same kind
of thing. So that was step one. And then I
started to you know, read more about the organization itself
and got more interested in the topic of suicide prevention.
And then I went to another event that is probably
the second biggest event that we do, which is the
(07:28):
Survivors of Suicide Loss Day, which is always the Saturday
before Thanksgiving every year, so it's coming up, you know,
a couple of months. But I went to that event,
and that event was the one that really got me
interested in the organization as far as participating and volunteering
and eventually get on the board. That day. All the
(07:52):
things that are floating in your mind as a survivor,
there's so many issues, you know, guilt, what could I
have done? You know, all kinds of thing, and a
very sensitive one is relief that you don't have to
deal with some of these things anymore. And I really
struggled with that one. It's sort of akin to a
(08:14):
lot of people that care for their parents get older
and then away, which is natural. Then you feel the relief.
Well this was a little bit unnatural in the order here,
but yes, there was some relief. And they brought that
up in that Survivor's Day meeting, and I'm like, these
guys really get it. They understand what we go through.
(08:38):
And so I sat through a breakout session talking with
other parents who had lost their kids.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
I was all in, you know, and sometimes I used
to jokingly say, you don't know what it's like to
be married until you're married. You don't know what it's
like to have a child until you have a child
and you're facing the same thing, don't. People don't have
a real serious grasp of what somebody goes through if
(09:07):
they've lost somebody.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
It's very different. It's very different. I mean, both my
parents are gone, my grandparents are gone. Yeah, aunts and
uncles are you know, a lot of them are gone.
That's natural progression. But to lose a child at twenty one,
it's it's extremely shocking. It shakes up your entire life.
(09:31):
Everything changes. Everything now is sort of like pre and
post their death, because your world's flipped upside down and
you're a totally different person. Now, you can work through it,
and I think I've worked through it pretty strongly. And
you know, there's an interesting book that I read that
(09:51):
kind of aligns with another event that I went to.
We do the Survivor's Day, but the National Organization has
now been putting on long term Survivor's Day, specifically for
people that are out several years. They're looking at five
to seven years or more out from that loss. Because
(10:11):
things change, Things change. So I went to.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
That can you explain a little bit?
Speaker 2 (10:16):
I will? I went to that particularly event, and when
I was reading of all the topics for discussion that day,
there was one that I had purchased a book about
the topic because I was basically told to, because I
was told, you're the poster child for this event or
(10:36):
for this topic, and I'm like, I don't even know
what the topic is, but okay. So it's called post
traumatic growth. And the book that I purchased is called
Upside and get it on Amazon, and it talks specifically
about this topic. And they talked specifically about it again
in this long term Survivor's Day, and it's basically, when
(11:02):
you've been through something that traumatic, being around other First
of all, being around others that have been through something
very very similar is extremely healing because we all get
it and if we can all grow together, then we
can all be an even bigger and better version of
(11:23):
ourselves and be growing as individuals.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
If somebody is listening right now who's recently lost somebody
or or had a loved one, try.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
To try to strive.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
And what do you if you were to say, hey,
come to this walk, what will they gain? What will
they what will they receive by going?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
I would hope that they would receive hope that there
is you know, a future here for you. Yeah, life
is going to be very different, but you can get
through this. And also just to see everybody else there
is very empowering, you know people, it's it's a day
(12:11):
of a whole lot of hugs. You know, everybody that's
there is meeting other other groups. You'll see people walking
teams that day. Everybody that has a really big team
seems to create their own T shirts and you'll see
like a group of green T shirts over here, or
a group of yellow ones over here, and they all
(12:33):
have their loved one, you know, photo of their loved
one maybe on their on the front of their shirt,
or some saying or something or their team name or whatever,
and it just it just provides some camaraderie. You may
make a connection to somebody you can talk to that's
going through similar things, and I think it's very healing.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It's a club. It's a club you don't want.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
To it's a club. Yeah, we always say it's a
club you don't want to be a member of.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
But you're in are But you're in a very safe
space because these are that stigma is is off.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
The takes off the table. It's yeah, everybody's everybody's either lost,
somebody going through their own personal struggles, struggles, or there
to support friends and family.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
All right, let's not get too far without mentioning the
Pittsburgh Out of Darkness Walk, which is coming up on
September sixth high Mark Stadium. Saves Lives brings a lot
of hope. If somebody wants more information, do you have
a website?
Speaker 2 (13:29):
We do. The national website is AFSP dot org. If
you type that in and after that's put a slash
western Pennsylvania, you will go to our website and we
have on there all these events that we have lined up,
all the walks, volunteering opportunities, educational opportunities, everything's right there
and you have the opportunity to sign up. Now.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
You also have information on the website if if somebody
you're if somebody a loved one or acquaintances is your
concerns and has information about that as well.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Yes, it'll probably directly direct you to the national website.
For instance, we we we have something called Healing Conversations
where we offer opportunities to talk one on one to
a loss survivor. If you're interested in something like that
it'll direct you to the national website and they'll put
you in touch with a chapter.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Do you have a hotline number for a suicide prevention
hotline number or as.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
A well, we're we always suggest everybody used nine to
eight eight, which is the new nine to one one.
It's been around now for a few years. So we
would always suggest using that you can call. You can
also text.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Okay, Now, eighty three cents of every donor dollar directly
supports four focus areas, research, education, support, and advocacy. Correct,
let's let's talk about research. What, what does the what
does your organization do and what do you what are
you researching? What are you finding out?
Speaker 2 (14:55):
We are the number one private funder of research in
the country. US governments above us, but that's it. So
what we do is we fund research into various topics
related to suicide suicide prevention. Many of those recipients of
our grants are right here at UPMC and PITT. One
(15:17):
in particular, that's here that was a recent study is
one that was done looking at sleep and how lack
of sleep affects kids mostly, but it also looks at
US adults. As you nod your head, yes, it's.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
Somebody who starts work at five am. But I'm very
I'm very disciplined when it comes to sleep because I
know how important it is.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Well, sleep hygiene is very important. But the study has
shown that lack of sleep for young kids causes anxiety
and depression. Because they're kind of kissing cousins if you will,
they typically run together. So what we've actually seen is
because of that study, there are some schools in the
(16:07):
area that have changed their start times for kids.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I agree with that.
Speaker 2 (16:11):
So like the young kids in elementary school, kindergarten, they
typically are not going to like eight or nine o'clock,
and these poor high school kids who've been studying all night,
they have to get up and catch their bus before
seven am.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
I grew up in Lawrence County and a lot of
the people were busted in an hour, hour and a
half dry, right, so it's even worse. It's even worse, exactly.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
So we've seen the change. We've seen the flip o
car where the younger kids are now going earlier because hey,
let's face it, they're up at the crack addle anyway,
get them out of the house and into school. Love
your kids. Yeah, But so now the teenagers are going
a little bit later and get a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Sleep, them have like sporting events or extracurricular activities, and
they're staying up later and they have to study and
then so it's tough to get out of early. So
that makes a lot of sense, which leads into the
next pillar, which is education.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Right education, Our national organization creates all the Asia educational
programs that we present and we present them literally to anybody,
any time, any place, anywhere. They're free. We do not
charge for any of them. And you know, the most
popular one we have is called Talk Saves Lives, and
(17:25):
the idea there is to talk to people that you
have a feeling might be having some struggles to you know,
help them and try to convince them to get the
help they need.
Speaker 1 (17:34):
And because of the stigma, that's a that's a roadblock too.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
That is that is a road block, it is, and
so you know, the big thing in the room is
that big elephant in the room is the stigma, and
we have to get that reduced in order to even
begin talking, right and so we all but it's sort
of like if we don't talk, we're not going to
reduce the stigma. So we got to start somewhere. So
(17:57):
let's talk.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Do you find people are still reluctant to talk about it,
even you know, even though they go to the walk
and they participate in you know, therapy sessions and things
like that, you still see that, you know, individuals still
having that reluctance to talk about the subject.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
I see the reluctance if they haven't lost somebody. Once
you've lost somebody, it's almost all you want to talk
about about. What you can do to prevent this so
it doesn't happen to somebody else, got it? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
Support, that's going to be important. That's the third pillar, right.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
Our support is what we call the loss and Healing
section of our organization, and the like I said earlier,
the key event that we have is the Saturday before
Thanksgiving coming up soon, So if you'd like to register
for that event, go to our website again AFSP dot
org slash Western Pennsylvania sign up for it. It is
(18:55):
the international so it's the same day across the world
and definitely for AFSP, it's the same day for everybody
in every state. And we have a Survivors of Suicide
Loss Day, so it's for those that have lost somebody.
We also call this post vention, not just suicide prevention,
(19:16):
but after the fact, what can we do to help
those that have lost somebody that might be struggling.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
And that you wanted me that this would probably be
a good time. We mentioned you wanted me to ask
you about caring communities. Is that part of that?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
It is? It definitely is, and caring communities is something
new that we're in the starting stages of getting ready
to bring it out. We're now doing some training sessions
for everybody so that we can understand to talk about it.
So it's sort of a combination of loss in healing
and education. The biggest thing that we did in the
Lost and Healing section besides the Survivor's Day was the
(19:54):
healing conversations, which are one on one discussions. This is
more of a teaching top that we would present to.
You know, a group of people could be a community,
could be literally a family that maybe lost somebody and
helping them through that postvention process of how to deal
(20:14):
with the loss. And it's important for people to know
how to help their friends and family to get through
the loss too.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
You've it's been what fourteen years since you lost.
Speaker 2 (20:24):
Years twenty fourteen. So it's eleven.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
Eleven years, eleven years, and you talked about you know
that never goes away that.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
No, no, it doesn't. Every day, every day you think
about them, but it goes from this point of really
just pain in your whole body, if you will, down
to over a long time, to a controllable level where
there's still pain, but it's controllable. You can deal with it,
(20:56):
you can cope with it, and you just move on.
Speaker 1 (21:00):
I'm talking with Doug Bishop of the American Foundation of
Suicide Prevention.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
There.
Speaker 1 (21:04):
Out of Darkness Walk is coming up on September sixth,
high Mark Stadium. If you need more information, to the
website again.
Speaker 2 (21:10):
AFSP dot org, forward slash Western Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
So even talking to you, I want to be sensitive
to you know what you've gone through and so, but
yet I think it's important that we have these kind
of conversations.
Speaker 2 (21:25):
Yes, yeah, I think as far as I'm concerned, I'm
far enough removed from the loss that I can talk
about pretty much everything. But the one thing that I
don't want to talk about to anybody else is things
like methodology, like how they went about taking their life.
(21:49):
It's nobody's business, and it could be triggering for somebody
else that's in the conversation. So a lot of times
we will have at our Survivor's Day event starts talking
about the methodology and we have to very politely stop
them and remind them that there are generally about seventy
five other people in their room and you don't want
(22:10):
to talk about methodology because you might harm them and
you know, kick them into a triggered situation, and we
just don't want to do that.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
We don't want to do that. I don't want to
do that, but we do want to bring up the
topic if there's somebody that you're concerned about that you
said earlier that it's almost a relief to them if
you say, have you thought about harming yourself?
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Right? Right? But there's like there's a campaign that we
do generally that's in the like the twenty and thirty
year olds campaign. It's called Seize the Awkward. There's lots
of videos on YouTube and across the internet, and so
you're seizing the awkward moment. And the real kind of
shortened version of the video is let's say two guys,
you and me sitting on a couch or watching a
(22:52):
football game, and I'm looking at you and I'm like, Johnny,
you're awfully quiet lately. There's something done on your mind.
So you're season that awkward moment because you know something's
just not quite right. So you see is an awkward moment.
You talk about it, and you directly asked the question
if you feel as you feel like they might be
(23:14):
considering to take.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
You there, if there's a possibility, if there's a possibility
affording the subject, you're not you're not helping, not helping anybody.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
A lot of people think if you ask somebody, you
bring up the topic to somebody that may be considering it,
that you're actually pushing them more towards it. Now research
has shown that it's actually the opposite. You're actually getting
them to talk about it, and you could get them
to the point where maybe I could convince you if
we were sitting on a counch you were struggling, that
(23:44):
you should go talk to somebody.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Tell me about the Pittsburgh community. Is there a certain
demographic Is there certain ages that are more you know, potant.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Yeah, we're not too far off from the national demographics.
So it's again male versus female. It's more males. We
are Unfortunately, there's a it's a second leading and third
leading cause of death in the younger population. It's eleventh
overall for all ages included. As far as you see,
(24:17):
there's some higher risk communities. The LGBTQ community is very
high risk and unfortunately we've seen a loss of funding
in the nine eight eight phone number area. So if
you were to doll at nine eight eight, you would
be asked what who would you like to talk to?
(24:37):
And now it's was a number three you would push
to get to LGBTQ help, and they're eliminating the funding
there for whatever reason. So that's still a very high
risk community. The black community we're seeing a higher risk.
There a higher risk in the Latino community as well.
Speaker 1 (24:56):
Lower income or is it it is?
Speaker 2 (25:00):
I don't there's not a whole lot of demographics showing
that there's a lot of difference in an income because
it is health related, but there could be some triggers
perhaps because you don't have much income that you can't
you know, if you're homeless or things like that that
could also you know, account for it.
Speaker 1 (25:17):
We talked a little bit about the four focus areas.
We talked research, education, and support.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
Let's talk advocacy, advocacy, advocacy. We were just in Harrisburg
and justin Washington, d C. In the past couple of months.
So we're there talking directly to health members, senators, staff,
et cetera about laws that we would like to see
(25:43):
you know, changed voted on in a positive direction for
mental health. You know, the biggest one is the one
we've already mentioned a couple of times is nine to
eight eight. We were very, very involved in getting that
change made so that now there's a separate nine to
one one nine eight eight just for mental health problems.
(26:03):
And they've seen a huge increase in calls in the
in the period of time that that's been around and
a drop on the nine on one side. So that's
exactly what was the hope. Yeah, so people that are
there can get the help they need by calling nine
eight eight.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
Do you have any inroads on funding and is there
help from Washington or Harrisburg to help you guys?
Speaker 2 (26:29):
We're seeing a little bit unfortunately, there's been so many
funding cuts and the one I mentioned on uh, you know,
the doll three for nine eight eight, that funding has
dropped to almost none. Uh, they've canceled that three so
we don't like seeing that, but they're still funding out
there for other causes. So, you know, we're seeing things like,
(26:53):
for instance, we see that unfortunately, a fair amount of
folk will take their lives out in the woods, parks,
et cetera, because there's nobody else around and it's quiet.
So we have actually had nine to eight eight signs
posted in a lot of local parks.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, So it's even vital that
you know that you have fundraisers light the Out of
Darkness Walk and not only are you looking to advocate,
advocate and then support the people who have gone through
this process, but to raise money.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
Oh absolutely. Without money, we can't do anything, unfortunately, so
we want to raise as much as we can. That's
the important thing. There's some funding that comes from the government,
but almost all of the funding for AFSP comes from
walks just like this, where you and I digging in
our pockets to help the cause. That's what makes the difference. Okay.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
And so when it comes to sponsorship or you know, participation,
you know, what what are you asking.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
The community to do to help show up?
Speaker 1 (28:00):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Walk. We don't require any minimums, there's no fees. So
if you just feel like you want to walk because
it's healthy for you to do so and participate in,
please just come out. But if you would like to
really help us by donating some funds, we'd be real
happy to have you do that. And again you can
go to our website look for the Pittsburgh Walk and
(28:24):
you can donate on your own. If you'd like to
bring a group of friends and create a walk team
and have your friends also get some donors as well.
There are some prizes for for you know, donating so
much money, so we're happy to get you involved in
that too. But it would really help and it makes
a huge difference to Jenneral.
Speaker 1 (28:44):
Now, September is a suicide prevention month. The Out of
Darkness Walk is high Mark Stadium September sixth, But we
have other ones in the area we do, all right,
you want to quickly mentioned that quickly.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
We have Cambria on September thirteenth, Eriie on September twentieth,
Washington County on September twenty seventh, and Lawrence County on
October fourth, and the website once again AFSP dot org
Forward slash Western Pennsylvania.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Doug Bishop of American Foundation of Suicide Prevention. It's always
a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
Good luck with you of that pleasure for me, Johnny,
thank you for having me all right.
Speaker 1 (29:17):
If you have any comments, concerns, or an idea for
our future program, please email us from this radio station's website.
I'm Johnny Heartwell, thank you so much for listening. Don't
(29:38):
act like that, don't wear that, don't think that. I've
heard everything you tell yourself every time you felt different,
and I want you to know that you can be
vulnerable and powerful. That taking care of your mind is
taking care of everyone you love and who loves you
(30:00):
your mind. Find mental health resources at Loveyourmind Today dot org.
Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Institute in
the AD Council
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