Healthcare Worker Violence-With @the.nurse.erica

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
High rates of workplaceviolence.
Thanks for joining us.
I'm Rod Carter.
I'm Angela Taylor.
Sadly, the problem worsenedduring the pandemic.
Just yesterday, two health careworkers were shot and killed in
a Dallas hospital.
And over the summer, a DukeHospital nurse here in Raleigh
was assaulted by a patientHospital administrators I spoke
to say this is not a newproblem, but it is getting

(00:20):
worse.
That's why they're looking ateverything from new warning
signs at hospital entrances toupdating screening programs.
I've had people reach out to meand say, I want to get out of
health care.
Or should I get out of healthcare?
What are my options?
This really rocked my world whenI've had medical students.
Reach out to me and say, I don'tthink I want to do this anymore,

(00:43):
but violence is becomingevidently a tipping point where
people tell me, well, they putup with the other travails of
our current health careworkplace, but when they were
assaulted, or their familymember, their spouse was
assaulted, who's also healthcareworker all this seems to be
that's a bridge too far.
I've had enough.

(01:03):
I want to leave.
ER nurses make up 50 percent ofall workplace assault victims.
The Emergency Nurses Associationor E N A says most nurses felt
that rate increased during thepandemic.
The ENA joined Wisconsin SenatorTammy Baldwin to promote
legislation, protectinghealthcare and social services

(01:24):
employees from violence senatorBaldwin says the legislation is
long overdue.
It's such a regular occurrence.
It's, it's horrible to say, butit's such a regular occurrence
that work doesn't feel safe.
that should never be, the case,especially for a workforce that
is committed to helping heal andtreat.

(01:45):
The bill already passed theHouse.
Senator Baldwin says she'sbringing the bill to the Senate
floor this week.
Deal with it.
Period.
How did we even get there?
that's the piece that's missingfor me.
how we even got there that thisevent could even happen, if it
was back where I used to workand there was a locked unit, I
could understand that.

(02:05):
But the med surgeons Why canthey not hire security to be in
the room?
If you want to admit the patientfor some type of MI evaluation
and you don't feel safe enoughtransferring them, then maybe
that's something that needs tobe enacted.
there needs to be some, policythat states if somebody is

(02:27):
threatening physical violence orseems mentally unstable and you
cannot transfer them out.
that just has to happen.
Because, I'm sorry, a little CNAsitter, sitting in the room,
isn't gonna be able to do shit.
If this man just starts goingoff the hinges, what good is
that gonna do?

(02:48):
Welcome to pulse check,Wisconsin.

(03:31):
Good morning, good evening, goodafternoon, whatever it is for
you.
This is Dr.
Ford with Pulse Check Wisconsin,and I wanted to thank you for
joining us here today.
We have a very special episodehere, uh, with one of our
experts, nurse Erica, who willbe sharing with us some of the
work that she's doing around thetopic of discussion today, which

(03:52):
is healthcare worker violence,as we've seen in recent years.
There has been a surge inhealthcare worker violence, and
we really saw, uh, it surgeduring and after the pandemic.
Here in the state of Wisconsin,we've seen in the media
healthcare worker violence inwhich.
Nurses have been affected, techshave been affected, doctors have

(04:15):
been assaulted uh, and inChicago, as we all know.
We saw where there was aphysician who was almost fatally
wounded from healthcare workerviolence.
What we know by the numbers ishealthcare worker violence not
only affects the healthcareworkers themselves, going to
work every day trying to protectthemselves, wondering if anyone

(04:36):
will attack them today.
But also the psychology ofwhat's going on Healthcare
workers are afraid to go towork.
I work with many people who havebeen assaulted.
I myself have been assaulted.
I don't know anyone in my ownpersonal network that has not,
that works in emergency medicineor works in the hospital
systems.
Because of that, there has beena lot of.

(04:57):
Talk about this issue.
There has been some federallegislation, as you heard from
the intro about how we betterprotect healthcare workers.
However, as you also heard, it'sstate by state, right?
So a lot of states will havesome.
Legislation in place that willforce the hands of some

(05:18):
healthcare systems to providecertain securities, to have
cameras available, to have bodycams in some places.
All these things that are inplace and some hospital systems
don't to be frank, and thatallows for these violent acts to
take place.
Now, what does that do?
Well, as nurse Erica will talkto us about here in the

(05:40):
interview, I won't get every,everything away, but this has
long standing and long-termeffects on healthcare in
general.
You're gonna have more peoplewho are gonna be unwilling to
take care of patients, so peoplenot going into the healthcare
fields, you're gonna have peoplewho are going to burn out.
As we talked about with Dr.
Ferguson in our previous.

(06:00):
Interview, uh, healthcareburnout is a reality, and if you
have this trauma squared aroundthe healthcare experience,
you're gonna have a lot ofpeople who don't want to come
back to the hospital systemsanymore.
And that in itself is not onlyan issue for healthcare
providers.
But it's a issue for all of us,right?
You're gonna have less peoplewilling to take care of you in

(06:21):
the hospital, which means you'regonna have longer hospital
waits.
Your quality of care is gonna godown because people are going to
be guarded when they're takingcare of you.
You're gonna have people whoaren't thinking clearly when
they're making medical decisions'cause they don't know if
somebody's gonna assault them orthey just have been assaulted.
I can't tell you how many peopleI know that had been assaulted
at the beginning of their shiftand then had to continue on with

(06:44):
the shift.
Seeing patients still.
In very high intensitysituations.
So this is an issue that I'mreally excited to break down.
Really excited to get into.
So happy that we have NurseErica here with us.
So with that being said, goahead and sit back and we wanna
welcome Nurse Erica

Chris (07:14):
We have nurse erica here with us Uh, thank you so much
for being with us a lot of mycolleagues hipped me to your
instagram page and all thevideos all the things that
you're doing all the amazingthings in health care But for
those listeners that may not beas familiar with you Can you
give us a little bit ofinformation about yourself?

Erica (07:29):
Say I've been working in nursing since the Jurassic era,
since right out of high schoolas a CNA and then eventually RN.
Added some alphabet soup behindmy name along the way, lots of
certifications.
My background is primarilypediatrics, pediatric oncology,
everything peds related.
Uh, and then I eventuallytransitioned into management and

(07:51):
leadership.
And from there transitioned intohospice with a focus in
pediatric hospice.

Chris (08:00):
Awesome.
And so, you know, a lot of youradvocacy and a lot of things
that we're seeing coming out ofyour content that you're putting
out is really based in that, youknow, all those things that you
just talked about, right?
Experiences and different facetsof nursing, which is, you know,
why I tell my nursing colleaguesall the time, I'm really envious
of you guys to be able to jumpfrom place to place to place,
but it really provides you adifferent context and a

(08:23):
different perspective ofhealthcare, especially when it
comes to some of the issues thatwe're going to talk about today.

Erica (08:28):
Yeah, absolutely.

Chris (08:29):
One of the, we talked about before, one of the things
that, that I really becameknowledgeable about your, your
work and your content was aboutan incident that we had here in
the state of Wisconsin, one ofour hospitals in Menomonee
Falls, where unfortunately itwas a nurse and a staff member
that was assaulted.
Uh, by a patient, not even apatient, it was a patient
visitor at that time.
A lot of the content that I sawfrom you was just about your

(08:52):
call to action for things thatwe need to do with healthcare
worker related violence.
Why do you think?
Why do you think violenceagainst healthcare workers is so
prevalent in your experience asa nurse?

Erica (09:02):
That's a great question.
The obvious answer is thatpatients and their families are
dealing with the unbelievable,right?
The unimaginable.
And the stress level is throughthe roof and, you know, nurses,
because I see everything througha nursing lens, of course.
We are the ones that are thereprimarily at the bedside
disproportionately more than anyof the other health care

(09:23):
workers.
And so we bear the brunt ofthat.
Certainly COVID did not help Ithink there remains now still a
lot of animosity from, fromcertain parts of the public that
I think, We were out to getthem, that we were forcing a
vaccine on them, that it's ourfault that they couldn't come

(09:43):
and be with their loved one, endof life, all these things.
We have really been villainizedsince the pandemic and that
unfortunately persists.

Chris (09:54):
Yeah, you know, I always joke with some of my colleagues
and say, you know, wasn't it agood week when we were heroes
and the healthcare workers,right?
It was a great week, right?
You know, we got, we got freepizza.
It was good, man.
It was like, it was good, but Imean, you know,

Erica (10:08):
it was lovely.

Chris (10:10):
Exactly.
Right.
You know, and you're exactlyright.
You know, that, that is kind ofwhen I felt that my own
personal, uh, experiences withhealthcare violence and, and
patient interactions, you know,unfortunately, especially the
pandemic was very politicizedand, you know, a lot of
sentiments came out of that.
And even to this day, you know,I, we, we get told by some
patients, I had a patientinteraction the other day that

(10:31):
said, you know, how much are yougetting paid every time you
diagnose me with COVID or withflu, right.
And it's like, Uh, you know, Idon't know how you can get
through to that, so yeah.

Erica (10:40):
There's a certain level of ignorance you're never going
to overcome.

Chris (10:43):
One of the things that, so a lot of these questions were
brought up by colleagues of mineand I asked them to send in
questions because, you know,they're, like I said, we're all
huge fans of yours and, and theywanted to ask, directly to the
source.
Just for some of our listenershere, what are some of the most
common types of violence thatnurses experience and healthcare
workers experience in theworkplace?

Erica (11:02):
Yeah, um, it's everything from verbal, you know, that is
actually a very overlooked formof violence.
Verbal threats, threats going sofar as.
I'm gonna look you up on theboard of nursing website.
I'm gonna find your address I'mgonna follow you home and that
has happened and then it's it'sthings like spitting slapping
sexual grabbing Inappropriatelyhot coffee that's happened a lot

(11:27):
the burning hot coffee and theythrow it In a healthcare
worker's face, you know,strangulation, assault,
absolutely, no one wants to hearit, but homicide and rape does,
in fact, happen in healthcaresettings against healthcare
workers.
And then one that is reallyoverlooked is bodily fluids.

(11:49):
That are weaponized againsthealthcare and, and in my
opinion, that absolutely needsto be added to legislation as a
form of a weapon.
When someone is, is danglingtheir, their urinal, whatever it
may be, any type of bodily fluidin front of you, and they may or
may not have some sort of a, youknow, bloodborne disease that we

(12:14):
could contract.
And they are actively, like,threatening to throw it on us,
and do, and do, you know, that'sa weapon.
But yeah, homicide, rape, one ofthe worst cases I ever covered
had to do with a nurse beingraped in the hospital.

Chris (12:33):
These are the things that it really hits home when I have
these conversations with peoplewho don't work in healthcare
like we do, and don't see it asoften as we do.
But if you remove the hospitalfrom these situations, right?
Like if you were out atMcDonald's or out at a
restaurant or out at the malland someone did these things to
you, somebody threw a bodilyfluid on you.

(12:54):
You know, that would in somecases if they had a communicable
disease that's bioterrorism,right?
Like these are things that thatwould be covered under the law
but like you said Oh, thesethese are things that kind of
are under the shroud of secrecyand dismissals in the in the
hospital setting

Erica (13:09):
yeah, I mean think about just flying on a plane if you
were to do just a Fraction ofany of this or even the threat
of doing any of

Chris (13:19):
this

Erica (13:20):
Immediately, you would be kicked off the plane, you would
be arrested.
Right?

Chris (13:24):
Mhm.

Erica (13:24):
Literally in every other setting, profession, anything.
There are more protections thanin healthcare.
You go to the library and you gothrough a metal detector often
into a show without Disneyland,the happiest place on earth has
metal detectors, right?
But we don't

Chris (13:44):
Mickey ain't playing.
Mickey ain't playing.

Erica (13:45):
Good.
And he shouldn't.

Chris (13:48):
You know, one of the things that we talk about all
the time, because I havepracticed long enough now that
I've seen the entirety of somenurses careers.
And unfortunately, in somecases, you know, it's from the
start to the end of that careerbecause of, some of the things
that we talked about here, someof the stressors outside of the
administrative or even theburnout from the psychological
aspect of carrying these burdensof all the things that you're

(14:11):
seeing.
But also.
Because of this workplaceviolence, how has the rise of
violence in the workplace inhealth care impacted nurse
retention and burnout in yourestimation?

Erica (14:21):
Yeah, well, let's let's start with the term burnout
because we're not burned outnecessarily We are exploited
especially as nurses burnoutimplies that it's our fault That
that we have some sort of youknow responsibility in that
right?
Nurses leaving the profession,for example, when you talk about

(14:44):
retention, that's just usfinally having healthy
boundaries.

Chris (14:48):
And it's taken

Erica (14:49):
us generations to get to this point.
What other profession would youcriticize for having healthy
boundaries?
None.
None.
You know.
Moral injury, okay?
No one talks about that, or theydon't talk about it enough.
But the fact is that when yousuffer from moral injury long
enough, it, it greatlydiminishes your ability to be

(15:11):
compassionate, right?
Towards our patients, you knowtowards each other last time.
I checked I believe the stat was1 in 18 new nurses Contemplate
suicide their first year.

Chris (15:24):
Oh my gosh,

Erica (15:24):
and a big part of that is workplace violence It's not all
about but a big part of it isand I don't know if you Recall
or if you had a chance to read aletter to my abuser written by
an ED nurse A couple years ago,Tristan Kate Smith, who sadly
took her own life and leftbehind a very well written

(15:44):
letter from a nurse'sperspective.
And one of the big components ofit was workplace violence and
how hospitals simply won't doanything to protect us.

Chris (15:56):
Yeah.
And it's sad.
Like you said, it's an entiregeneration that is affected.
And even if you get out of thenursing profession.
A lot of folks don't understandthat this is something that
you're going to carry with youfor a lifetime.
This is PTSD, right?
We'll call it what it is, right?
And you know, if this was a, ifthis was an interpersonal
relationship, this would be anabusive relationship in some, in

(16:18):
some instances, some of thesituations that you're being
placed in.

Erica (16:21):
Lots of correlations there.
We have kids together.
I have to do it for thepatients.

Chris (16:27):
Mm hmm.
He didn't

Erica (16:28):
mean it.
The hospital cares about me.
One, once I get a plan in place,then I'll leave.
Well, I need this job.
You know, it's really the samething when you think about it.

Chris (16:42):
It's interesting.
We had a doctor on the verybeginning of the second season,
Dr.
Jane Morgan.
She's a cardiologist out ofAtlanta.
And she spoke to some of thatsimilar thought process in
physicians, specifically inAfrican American physicians as
well.
When she talked about, you know,You're staying in it, but maybe
you're staying in it too long,right?
Because what are the patientsgoing to do without me?

(17:03):
What was the community going todo without me here?
And then you stay in a badsituation too long until the
point where you get, you know,an incident like this that
occurs.
And again, it just hasdownstream effects with your
work life, with yourinterpersonal life.
And then in going forward too,right?

Erica (17:17):
Very true.

Chris (17:19):
So one of the things that I recently spoke to a colleague
about who I witnessed anincident that occurred with
them.
was reporting, right?
As we know, it's been publicizedrecently.
There's a lot of federalstatutes and they're state by
state statutes on the books nowfor healthcare worker violence
and some of the punishments thatare associated with patients who

(17:39):
will perpetrate this.
What are some of the barriersand are there any barriers as
you and I both know there arebut for our listeners Are there
any barriers for reportingincidences of violence and how
can those be addressed?

Erica (17:52):
Definitely.
I will say the biggest barrierfrom a nursing perspective is
retaliation.
You are almost guaranteed Youknow, there's some outliers
There are some good employersbut by and large you are almost
guaranteed to if you do reportthings to be the victim of
Victim blaming and orretaliation from your job.

(18:15):
They actively, like,aggressively discourage us from
filing police reports,oftentimes.
Incident reports, and you know,it's, it's so common that it's
almost a cliche at this point.
But when nurses are assaulted,the one thing that they are
asked time and again is whatcould you have done differently?

(18:38):
That's the epitome of victimblaming, right?
So I challenge not just nurses,but all healthcare workers.
When you are asked that, flipthe script, flip the table on
them and say, What could youhave done differently to protect
your staff?
What could you have donedifferently to provide the safe
working conditions that you'rerequired to do?

Chris (18:58):
Damn.
And same way, right?
Like we, we had on a group ofsane nurses that came on and
talked about some of theresources that were available in
Milwaukee.
And one of the things that theytalked about was when they
initially speak to a patient whohas had this assault or has had
this trauma.
They create the feel of this isnot your fault, right?

(19:18):
Like you did nothing to deservethis.
How can we move forward to helpget you out?
Right.
And so it's so, you know, thecontrast of that, like you said,
you know, I have heard thatpersonally in instances where
I've been assaulted in the pastand you know, you're right on.
And by saying, you know, that,that whole ideology is flipped.

Erica (19:35):
Yeah, yeah, it really is pervasive, the retaliation.
So often, if you, for example,are injured, you need to take
time off.
Well then, they find that, theyuse that as an excuse to
ultimately terminate you.
You've missed too much work.
Yeah, I've missed work because Iwas injured at work, where you
refused to do anything toprotect employees, you know.

(19:57):
Or they just start writing.
Healthcare workers up, makingtheir, their work environment so
miserable that they eventuallyquit, the retaliation is out of
control.

Chris (20:08):
And, you know, one of the questions that was brought up by
a good friend of mine who is anurse here was, you know, how,
how can you hold, how canhealthcare workers hold their
administrators accountable?
You spoke to that, you know,kind of flip it on there, but
What are other ways to hold themaccountable when they fail to
support, you know, filingcharges against individuals who
harm us or taking it to thatnext level?

Erica (20:28):
You have always got to be working on your paper trail.
You have just the same way thatwe document to CYA.
Right.
We have to be doing the samething to document as in a paper
trail so that we can prove thatthese things happen, right?
Because the reality is thatreporting unsafe working

(20:49):
conditions or safety concerns isconsidered a protected act.
So any retaliation for that.
is absolutely illegal, you canimmediately report that to the
NLRB and to OSHA.
But can you prove it?

Chris (21:04):
And

Erica (21:04):
most of the time, they can't.
They don't have a paper trail.
They had all these verbalinteractions.
They didn't fill out an incidentreport.
They didn't file a policereport.
They didn't send summary emails.
They can tell you all about it,and we know they're telling the
truth.
But legally, they can't proveit.
So you need to always becreating a paper trail, and I

(21:25):
always tell everyone, keepcopies of it at home.
Don't keep it in your workemail, because if and when they
Terminate you, you're locked outof that email before you even
know that they're going to.
So make sure you have copies athome printed of everything.
Get witness statements fromanyone that witnessed anything.
Send the summary emails.
I just wanted to follow up onour conversation this morning in

(21:48):
your office where I relayedthese following concerns and you
responded with.
Now is there.
An inherent risk that themanager whomever is going to
recognize that as oh shit.
They're trying to create a papertrail That they they know what's
up.
Sure, but What what's thealternative to do nothing?

Chris (22:09):
Right,

Erica (22:10):
you know,

Chris (22:10):
right, right, you know It's so interesting to me too
that in some cases that's seenas like a negative, right?
Like so like you said if someonethat you spoke to who's a
superior It's now looking at youa certain way because you're
keeping a paper truck.
I mean, if you get assaulted onthe street, a police officer is
going to file a report.
They got a stack of paperworkthis this heavy.

(22:31):
Right.
So I don't understand like thatdisconnect.
Like I said, I've been throughit.
My I've had friends of mine thathave been through it as well.
But it is that disconnectbetween administrators and those
individuals who are in charge oftaking it to the next step.
But you got to protect, like yousay, you got to cover your ass,
CYA, right?
You got to, you got to protectyourself and you have to be your
own advocate in thosesituations.

Erica (22:52):
Absolutely.

Chris (22:53):
How can nurses protect themselves from retaliation,
from that retaliation, whenthey're speaking out against
those unsafe work environments?

Erica (23:00):
It really does come down to the paper trail.
Again, you have to be able toprove it, you know, and people
think that retaliation only islike termination.
Like I was assaulted and thenno, if you look it up, the
retaliation takes numerous formsand this is spelled out in
federal legislation, you know,so it can be.

(23:22):
A change in schedule.
Sudden, suddenly you're switchedto night shift.
Suddenly you're no longer givenyour charge nurse positions with
the differential.
Suddenly you are beingscrutinized for your time in
attendance when you never werebefore, you know, it can take
all manner.
Of different forms, but you haveto be able to prove it, you

(23:44):
know, do a timeline, like a, ifyou think you're being
retaliated against, do a barebones timeline, this date, I was
assaulted, this date, I reportedit, this date, two weeks later,
called to HR, this date, oneweek following, put on
performance improvement plan,this date, one month later,

(24:05):
terminated, like show thetrajectory with the bare bones
outline, you know,

Chris (24:11):
Mm hmm.
In instances that you have seenbe successful, if you've seen
some nurses speak out and havebeen successful at it, what,
what legal avenues were taken?
Is it strictly through thehospital, through like the HR
department, through wherever?
How would you recommend nursesgo about it?

Erica (24:28):
Lawyer up.
And, you know, people hear thatand they tune out and they say,
I can't do that.
I can't afford that.
Well, you know what?
I've done it.
And I was a single mom most ofmy kid's life.
I couldn't afford it either, butI did it anyway.
Because sometimes there's agreater good involved.

Chris (24:43):
Yeah.
Yeah.

Erica (24:45):
Go see the employment attorneys.
Most of them will have freeconsultations.
Go see two or three of them.
And tell them what happened andthen say, Do I have a case?
And if so, is this a case youwould be willing to take?
And get get the feedback fromthem

Chris (25:01):
in my experience, you know Those lawyers will tell you
the same thing that erica'stelling you right now.
Make sure you have that papertrail Yeah, right and a lot of
those lawyers are going torequest that paper trail as well
So they can have thatdocumentation they can go back
and then they can advocate foryou on your behalf Because you
know on top of all those thingslike you said erica like you you
were a single mom You you'reworking full time at that point

(25:21):
in time, right?
And so you have all these thingsthat are going on Why not get
someone else involved who cantake it the next step and to
advocate for you in that, right?
So one of the things I paid aclip before before this this
episode about Some of the newfederal and state laws that
currently exist to protectnurses from from workplace

(25:41):
violence What are some of theones that you've seen work and
not work in recent years?

Erica (25:46):
Well, I want to start with, we all need to support a
pending legislation.
It's, uh, Workplace ViolencePrevention for Healthcare and
Social Service Workers Act.
It's a mouthful.
Um, but this is, you know, getsreintroduced every, every
congressional session,unfortunately, and they,
Typically don't even vote on itand it dies and then it has to

(26:08):
get reintroduced with the next,um, session, but we need to get
federal legislation passedbecause right now we have all
the states working in a silo,right?
And I think about 29 have lawssaying that it's a felony to
assault a healthcare worker.
However, The vast majority ofthem have carve outs with

(26:32):
exceptions for anything thatthey could possibly construe as
like an intellectual disabilityor mental health, you know,
anything.
And they do.
They do.
And so, even the ones that haveit, don't.
Effectively have it, you know,Ohio recently passed some, some

(26:52):
legislation for workplacesafety.
A lot of the states claim thatthey have laws, but what it
comes down to is they'll havelike a guidance or a statement,
you know, or, or somethingminuscule that says, okay, well,
the employer is required toreport these incidents to OSHA
within these timeframes.

(27:13):
Okay, great.
But what's that doing to help menow?
You know what I mean?
So we in my opinion, it needs tobe a felony There are some
people that disagree with thatand they say, you know, we need
to focus on prevention I thinkwe need to do both Knowing that
it's a felony Nationwide iswould absolutely be a deterrent
to a lot of this, you know Justlike they're not going to do

(27:36):
that to a cop because they knowit's going to come down so hard
on them Right.
It needs to be the same forfrontline health care workers So
we, we need to focus on federallegislation, not just state by
state.
It needs to stop having so manyexceptions because let, let's be
real.
We're not trying to put 90 yearold meemaw with Lewy body

(27:57):
dementia in prison.
Be so for real.
I, you know, we can look atthese things objectively.
Okay.
But we also know that a lot ofthe quote unquote psych patients
or whatever other category youwant to put them in these
patients.
know exactly what they're doing.
And just because you have amental health diagnosis does not

(28:20):
automatically negate you fromknowing right and wrong.
I mean, I have personally lookedin the eyes of someone before
they assault a healthcare workerand they intentionally did it
and they knew what they weredoing regardless of their
diagnosis.

Chris (28:33):
Mm hmm.
And like you said, you know, ifit happened to a police officer,
that mental health ringerdoesn't come into play.
I can tell you, you know, andthere's Eric in the same
situation.
I can tell you when I've donemedical clearances for patients,
a good number of those patientsthat come into the department
who are under police custody.
Have some form of mental healthdisorder.
I have seen them personally, Ican tell you from their charts,

(28:55):
you know, and, and, and it, it,it should not have that
exception in those cases becauseit's not going to deter it in
the future.
It's gonna continue to happen.

Erica (29:03):
Yeah.
And we need, we need districtattorneys that are willing to
prosecute these cases, you know,because that's one of the big
excuses that healthcare workershave for not reporting it, is
they've all heard stories ofanother healthcare worker that
has reported it and then.
they drop the charges.
Well, that's a fight we need tofight, but you still need to do

(29:24):
your part.
We cannot control what a DAdecides to do.
But we can report it, we cancreate the tracking mechanism to
show that this, you know,Community Hospital A has had a
disproportionate amount of actsof violence against its
employees in the last year,whatever, you know, it makes it
trackable, we can quantify it,right?

(29:47):
We can only control what we cancontrol, so.
File those police reports.
It is your right, regardless ofwhat they tell you.
And regardless of what adistrict attorney's office may
or may not do.
And another big excuse that wehave is sometimes they require
you to put your home address ona police report.
And then the fear is that thisviolent person is going to come

(30:10):
after you.
And that there has been cases ofthat.
List your work address, thehospital address, the employer's
address.
It's not that hard, you

Chris (30:21):
know And you know, I would take it a step forward and
say like any medicaldocumentation like for your
licensing, etc Etc.
If they allow you to list yourhospital location Definitely do
that.

Erica (30:34):
There are some state boards of nursing that require
that your address be listedpublicly.
Which is insane, right?
Absolutely insane.
And then you couple that withthe quote unquote Cures Act,
where they claim that we'rerequired to have our last name
on our badge, which we're reallynot, but they try to enforce
that.
And so it's so easy.
You have the full name.

(30:54):
You go to the Board of Nursingwebsite, you find their home
address.
Like, it's the easiest thing inthe world.
Those states, if you live in oneof those states, please get a P.
O.
box.
Please get a P.
O.
box.
Do not have your home addresslisted anywhere.

Chris (31:08):
Absolutely.
So let, let's turn it on thehospitals now, right?
So let's say if there are lawson the books right now to
protect us, are there anyspecific laws that require now
the hospitals to implementviolence per violence prevention
programs for nurses?

Erica (31:24):
Not really.
The federal legislation that Imentioned earlier would mandate
across the nation that healthcare employers have and
implement workplace violenceprevention plans, and they would
be accountable to federal OSHAfor that.
So again, right now it's kind ofstate by state.
Some states do a little morethan others, but in general,

(31:48):
it's weak.

Chris (31:50):
And I don't know, you probably got the same module,
Erica.
We've gotten them probably everyyear since my residency.
Right.
Uh, you know, how to deescalatea situation, you know, what,
what parameters to take, whatsteps to take with somebody to
assault.
Do you mean, you mean thosearen't effective enough, Erica,
that you're telling us?

Erica (32:06):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, and when the mostegregious thing is after there
is an incident and someone'sinjured, then they will assign
extra health stream modules orwhatever.
Like, like it's almost apunishment.
Those are not doing, first ofall, we're clicking through it
because we don't have time to doit.
So no one's reading it.
We gotta

Chris (32:24):
be patient.

Erica (32:24):
Like, let's be real, you know, but that is almost another
form of victim blaming becausethen they can come back to you
and say, well, did you use yourCPI training?
Did you use your de escalationtechniques that we provided to
you as an organization?
It's a way to put the blame onthe health care worker.

Chris (32:44):
Yeah.
Yeah.
You know, one of the thingsthat, that is a question that
came up from one of my nursefriends from, from like
residency and she's been a nursefor about 15 years now and you
know, she had a situation thatshe went through where she was
attacked and went through theavenues and felt as though she
was being, again, you know,victim blamed in the situation

(33:05):
and that even for speaking up,that her job was on the line in
that case, right?
I've heard of other nurses aswell over the years being pushed
out of jobs or having theircareers threatened for speaking
out.
What advice do you have fornurses who experience work based
retaliation?

Erica (33:21):
Paper trail again.
I hate to be repetitive, but Imean it is so important.
You have to always be thinkingin that way and also, you know,
I can't say enough.
Courage is so important, right?
Nurses.
I have a tendency to be veryapathetic and they hate when I
say that, but it's true.

(33:42):
We have been born and bredthrough generations of nursing
to be that way.
You have to have the courage todo the right thing and not just
have all the excuses because ifI can do it, you can do it too.
You know, you can do the hardthings.
You can do the scary things.
Yes.
It comes with inherent risk.
Yes.
You could experienceretaliation.

(34:02):
But that should not stop youfrom doing the scary thing that
has a risk because we know it'sthe right thing to do.
And the thing is, nothing'sgoing to change, right?
Like disruption is whatcatalyzes change.

Chris (34:16):
So

Erica (34:16):
if you are not willing to be the disruptor, to put the
things in writing, to report thethings, to hold employers
accountable, Then you can expectno change and you have yourself
to blame.

Chris (34:32):
Yeah, and you know, I I will I will Push back a little
bit on that too because this isa question that came directly
from another friend of mine Thatsaid you you know nurse erica
has been such a fearlessadvocate in this space Could you
ask her how does she manage tostay employed while speaking out

Erica (34:47):
I've been i've been terminated For being vocal.
I absolutely have, more thanonce.
It has happened to me before Iever started on social media
when I was a bedside nurse.
That happened to me for simplydoing the right thing.
For following hospital policy,for being vocal about it, for
reporting things.
I've been terminated.
I fought back and I won.
It was not an easy fight or aquick fight.

(35:10):
But you can do the hard things,as I said.
But it has also happened to mesince I have started with this
platform for the past like sixyears and where I have been
terminated from a job because ofhow outspoken I am.
And uh, you know, it's kind ofone of my goals is to normalize
that because retaliation is soprevalent, especially in

(35:32):
nursing.
And there's a lot of shameattached to that.
So you almost never hear a nursesay they reported me to the
board of nursing or theyterminated me even when they
know they did nothing wrong.
Because there's so much shameattached to it.
We need to normalize that.
We need to get that out in theopen and start talking about it.
I did nothing wrong.
I was retaliated against.

(35:53):
I was terminated.
Say it like, say it, you know?
But yeah, um, I, it does notescape my attention that I have
effectively painted myself intoa corner.
Where I'm not rehirable as anurse at this point.
I am still working, knock onwood.
God forbid something happenswith my current job.

(36:15):
Because who in their right mindis gonna hire Nurse Erika?
You know what I mean?
So my I'll hire

Chris (36:23):
you Erika if I had a hospital.
They don't allow us to ownhospitals anymore.

Erica (36:29):
But you know what I'm saying?
Like my advocacy has absolutelycost me professionally.
I never knew that it was gonnago this far.
This, my platform, this wasnever a plan of mine.
Um, you know, had I known thatme being vocal on this level
would mean I could never be abedside nurse again, I probably

(36:49):
wouldn't have done it.
Like that really kind of breaksmy heart, you know, as much as I
don't want to go back tobedside, the fact that I can't.
Breaks my heart, you know, um,so I've actually paid the price
professionally for this.

Chris (37:02):
Which is just unfortunate, right?
Especially, like you said, justfor doing the right thing, for
advocating for safety in theworkplace.
No one should have to go to workand, and think to themselves, is
this going to be the last timeI'm going to see my family?
Is this going to be the lasttime I'm going to be able to do
this work?
Am I going to get injured to thepoint where I'm unable to do my
job day to day?

(37:23):
My dad was a firefighter growingup.
Um, and you know, before everyshift he would like hug us and
kiss us and, you know, becauseagain, you know, it comes with
that, you know, you don't knowif you're going to come home
and, I've found myself in recentyears doing the same thing with
my kids, right?
And it's just unfortunate thatthat's kind of where we are.
In a situation that, this issupposed to be an environment

(37:44):
that is a safe place.
People come to our hospitalswhen they are in violent
situations or being assaultedout in the community for care,
for safety.
And here we are, we can't evenguarantee it in some instances
in our own environments.
Have you seen?
Any Hospitals get it right.
Have you seen any states get itright?
Have you seen any successfulpolicies or practices that

(38:06):
protect nurses and other healthcare staff?

Erica (38:09):
You know, I think wisconsin from what I understand
is doing something Right, theyhave made it a felony to assault
a health care worker they face.
I believe it's up to six yearsIn prison.
Even shorter.
Shout out

Chris (38:20):
Tammy Baldwin, our senator.

Erica (38:22):
My understanding is that to even threaten a health care
worker comes with.
Up to six years in prison.
So shout out Wisconsin, youknow, I hear from nurses a lot
that claim their hospital, theiremployer is doing the right
thing.
And then I always say, great.
Tell me what they're doing.

(38:44):
Well, they put in a metaldetector.
They put in a metal detector.
Oh yeah.
And they go through that

Chris (38:50):
door.
Yeah.

Erica (38:51):
Right.
Because the average hospital hassomething like seven.
You know public entrances.
So what good is that one in theED doing?
It's not, you know Don't comeand tell me that your employer
is doing the right thing unlessyou can tell me that there is a
metal detector That is manned 247 at every single public

(39:13):
entrance, right?
Don't tell me your employer isdoing the right thing unless you
can tell me that you have armedsecurity At your facility that
are allowed to touch patientsbecause believe it or not
There's a lot of places thathave ridiculous policies
preventing public safety orsecurity from even physically
touching the patient.
They're useless

Chris (39:34):
Absolutely

Erica (39:35):
useless, you know Don't tell me your employer is doing
the right thing unless you areactively encouraged To file
police reports and you aresupported and you have security
Outside of the ed because let'sbe real in the last couple years
The big horrible incidentsweren't even in the ed.

(39:56):
They've been primarily in laborand delivery units for god's
sake like no one is safe Youknow, so i'm sure there are some
outliers That are doing itright.
I honestly could not give you aname though.

Chris (40:08):
Yeah, that's fair.
And that's fair.
And you know, like you said, itboggles the mind that some of
these environments, especially,like you said, when we have such
lax, in some states, parametersaround patients and in them
coming to the hospital and beingable to essentially do whatever
they want in some cases, right?
If you go to You know, let's saya lock facility.
If you go to a prison, right,where it is expected that, you

(40:30):
know, there's going to be afully maximum security effort.
If you go to the police station,there's going to be a metal
detector.
If you go to a lot of theseplaces, even if you go, I went
to Costco the other day, therewas a metal detector at Costco,
right?
So it's like, what, why aren'twe carrying through?
And some of it has to do withlike the press Ganey.
And we can go an hour and a halfabout that conversation.
And about for our listeners ismore so kind of the evaluations

(40:50):
that you do when you go to thehospital, how'd you like your
experience of the, the, the,the.
But at the same time, you know,not only the health care
providers are going to beaffected by these violent
attacks, you know, I preventedpatients in the past from being
assaulted by other patients,right?
And so this affects all of us inthat environment.
So why not make it safer for allof us?

Erica (41:09):
I'm glad you brought up prison, you know, it's
interesting that Across theboard, correctional nurses will
say that they felt safer inprison than they did in any
other nursing job and setting.
Imagine you are dealing withmurderers, rapists, all day,
every day, they're all aroundyou, and you felt safer in

(41:31):
prison because there were armedguards that you knew would
protect you, weren't, you know,discouraged from protecting you,
right?
That, I think, speaks volumes.

Chris (41:44):
And to that point, you know, every nurse that I know
that has had, some of the mostvicious assaults that I've seen,
the majority of them went to,you know, the, the prison
setting, the majority of themwent to, you know, those
locations because of thatprotection aspect.
And after working through it,um, you know, to the point where
they felt as though they werestrong enough mentally to go
back to those, those situations,you know, it's kind of where

(42:05):
they're landed.
One of the questions that, uh,came in, as we know, from the
pandemic.
Um, there was an upsurge intravel nursing.
A lot of contracts were taken byfolks who were like, you know,
I'm going to go to a rurallocation and practice.
For nurses who travel or work atdifferent hospitals, how can
they still be proactive inadvocating for better

(42:25):
protections?

Erica (42:26):
You know, research the place before you go, first of
all, right?
See, see if it's, you know, aplace that maybe has a nursing
union or do they have metaldetectors?
It's so easy to find outinformation these days because
there there's travel nursegroups on Facebook all over the
place.
You can just type the questionin it.
Has anyone worked at this?

(42:47):
Specific place, you know, tellme they'll tell you and they'll
tell you the good the bad andthe ugly They will tell you you
know, um, but also Travel nursesare such a great resource to
full time staff because a lot ofplaces There are staff that have
only ever worked there, or theyhave only ever worked in that

(43:09):
city or state, and they sufferunder the delusion that that's
just the way it is everywhere.
Or they don't have a basis ofcomparison.
You know, they don't know whatthey don't know.
So, when a travel nurse comesin, and they can say from their
vast experience and travelingaround the country, this is not.
Okay, like this would whateverthey're doing here would not fly

(43:31):
anywhere else that i've workedthat's valuable You know impart
that wisdom to the non travelers

Chris (43:38):
Yeah, yeah And you know, like you said when you're
traveling you're bringing newideas to different environments
and you know I I work at I thinkat this point about 14 different
hospitals now with our group Andso we bounce from place to place
and a lot of the positives thatwe have coming out of it Is from
that.
Okay.
Well, at this location, this iswhat we do.
You know, maybe we can improveit, right?
The pediatric hospitals, this iswhat we do.

(44:00):
Maybe we can save a kid, youknow, an ED to ED transfer, just
directly admit them.
Right.
So a lot of that comes out ofit.
Why not this?
All right.
Why not the protections that wecan have for our staff and our
faculty beyond personaladvocacy?
You mentioned a little bit here.
What else can healthcare workersdo to push for real political
change on this issue?
You mentioned that bill there.

(44:21):
How can some of our workerssupport those efforts or other
efforts in going forward?

Erica (44:25):
Yeah, well, supporting that bill is not as simple as
calling your representativeonce.
I think people suffer under thatdelusion.
Well, I sent an email.
Great.
Okay.
That got put in the trash, youknow, you need to keep doing it.
Like put a reminder in yourcalendar once a week.

(44:46):
Hit hit send send that email atlike call out tag your
representatives on social mediaThey're all on the different
social medias at them and sayrepresentative smith Why have
you not signed on to supportbill number dot dot dot, you
know Call them out.
You can make appointments and gomeet with your representatives

(45:07):
Go there.
Tell them the really horrificstories.
We all have one

Chris (45:12):
You know

Erica (45:13):
put it in layman's terms tell them how bad it is make it
real paint the picture for them,you know Send the email send
them the snail mail You can textthem even make the appointments
at them on social media and geteveryone You know to do the same
thing and here's what I alwaystell people You end it with if

(45:34):
you fail to support thislegislation, myself and my
friends and family will notsupport you in any and all
future election camp becausethat's what they care about.
Let's be real, you know, so youdo that.
But also we need the public toget involved.
You know, the public, despite.
Like, all of my work remainsvastly unaware that workplace

(45:58):
violence is even a thing forhealth care workers.
You know, I had someone, uh,doing some work on my house a
couple weeks ago, and he said,What do you do?
And I said, well, you know, I doa little advocacy and talk about
violence against nurses andhealth.
And he's like, is that, did thathappen?
Yes!

Chris (46:16):
It happens, and it's

Erica (46:17):
so frustrating, but you know, the media doesn't report
on it.
The only time you hear anythingin the media is if there's like
a really horrific attack.
Like the two we had recently inFlorida and Pennsylvania, UPMC.
Those you kind of heard a littlebit about because they were so
big and so awful that theycouldn't not report on it, you

(46:40):
know?
But they never talk about thebigger picture.
They present it as this is anisolated incident.
It's not isolated.
over 80 percent of nurses reportexperiencing workplace violence
in the past year.
73 percent of all non fatalworkplace violence is in
healthcare.

Chris (46:59):
Every

Erica (47:01):
year nurses will report increased workplace violence
from the year before.
Right?
Like the national average issomething like 57 incidents of
violence against healthcareworkers per day.
And those are only the ones thatreport it.
It's probably quadruple that,you know?
And we also know that the publicare victims of this too.

(47:22):
It's not just the health careworkers, right?
There are tons of examples ofpatients and or their families
and visitors becoming thevictims of the violent attack in
the hospital just for beingthere.
You're not safe when you go in ahospital and no one wants me to
say that or hear that.
You are not safe in a hospital.
You are not safe in a nursinghome.

(47:43):
That is the reality.
And until the public getsinvolved, because Legislators
really see, especially nurses,as like whiny, you know,
they're, oh, their nurses arecomplaining again.
We need the public to getinvolved and put the same
pressure on our representativesto do the right thing on our

(48:04):
local hospitals and facilitiesto have basic security measures
in place.

Chris (48:11):
Yeah.
And you're absolutely right,right?
Like the, the, these folks whoare representatives, you, you
know, Erica and I both, we, wedo a lot of advocacy work and I
can tell you how tangible thesefolks are.
Even at the highest levels,you'd be surprised if you are
adamant, if you are makingnoise, if you and your
community, cause it's not justgoing to be one person that's
going to do this in order to getacross the finish line.

(48:32):
We all need to work together,both healthcare and folks in the
community.
to make sure that we're pushingforward and putting that
pressure on our electedofficials who are then
subsequently going to put thepressure on hospital systems to
get their acts together and makesure that it's safe for not only
us, but for our patients aswell.
So tell us about yourorganization and your, and I saw
that you had an Etsy shop too.

(48:52):
I'm going to order some stuff.
I'm an Etsy fan.
Tell me about your efforts inthat respect.

Erica (48:57):
So, three years ago, in the wake of the double homicide
of a nurse and a social workerat Methodist Dallas Hospital, in
the immediate aftermath of that,myself and a good friend of
mine, Matthew, another nurse,created this red and black
awareness ribbon.
Red and black being the colorsthat denote homicide.
And so, it was just this littlething we created.

(49:19):
Hey, healthcare workers, go out,go to your fabric store,
whatever, your craft store, getsome red and black ribbon, Pin
it on.
This serves a purpose, a coupleof purposes.
One, it's like a silent protest,right?
Imagine you are the C suite andyou're walking through the halls
and you notice every single oneof the employees is wearing some

(49:40):
sort of red and black ribbon.
That makes a statement, youknow, um, that we're not going
to tolerate this.
We demand that you provide thebasic security measures that
you're obligated to provide.
But also it creates anopportunity for conversations,
right?
So maybe you're a patient or afamily member and you notice
everyone's wearing these red andblack ribbons.
Eventually you're going to ask,what is that?

(50:01):
What does that mean?
Why is everybody wearing that?
Oh, well, actually it is topromote awareness of violence
against healthcare workers.
Violence against health careworkers.
That's a thing.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it's actually like anational emergency at this point

Chris (50:13):
Mm

Erica (50:14):
hmm.
And so it sparks conversationsand we get to educate people
about it.
And so people started makingribbons We purchased thousands
of them.
We sent them to Methodist,Dallas where that double
homicide took place and westarted talking about it and
then people, you know, nursesstarted saying and healthcare
workers like, it's coming apart.
I'm trying to wipe it down withthe purple sandy wipes and it's

(50:35):
coming apart.
Can you make a, like an enamelpin?
So I made an enamel pin and Iopened up Etsy shop.
I knew nothing about doing anyof this, but I did it.
So you can go to my Etsy shop.
It's the nurse, Erica, Ericawith a C, and you can get an
enamel pin.
And then they said, well, canyou make a badge real?
I don't want to wear a pin.
So I made one with a badgewreath.

Chris (50:56):
Nice nice

Erica (50:57):
and then they said can you make a sticker so I can put
it on my water bottle orwhatever?
So I made a sticker and there'st shirts come in and bumper
stickers come in and all thesethings But it's really just been
a labor of love I am continuallyshocked at this has gone like
worldwide.

(51:17):
This red and black ribbon acouple of weeks ago, one of my
followers sent me a picture.
She had the red and black ribbontattooed on her arm.
I'm still in shock.
I, I, like, I can't wrap my headaround that, you know?
And if you go on social media,you'll notice a lot of people
have it as their profilepicture.

(51:37):
Like it's really taken on.
A life of its own, you know, andit really started as an
actionable event.
Like we've got to stop justcomplaining in the break room or
at the nurses station, we needan actionable event.
So contact your representatives,educate the public, put a ribbon
on, do something.

(51:59):
To keep this conversation going.

Chris (52:02):
Yeah, no, absolutely.
And thank you for all yourefforts in that respect.
And I tell you from, from thisinterview here, there are going
to be a lot of folks who aregoing to be looking for those
enamel pins.
So definitely, uh, just, justgive me a warning ahead of time.

Erica (52:15):
It's okay.
That's okay.
I've been excited becausethere's been unions that have
reached out to me saying, Hey,can, can you send us like 500,
like a thousand?

Chris (52:23):
Mm hmm.

Erica (52:23):
Yes.
Yes, please pass this out toyour union members.
That is actually amazing.
Yeah,

Chris (52:31):
so How can people follow you?
How can people follow yourefforts?
Uh, you know, I know there'sgonna be a lot of folks that are
gonna want to follow up withthis We'll post some information
on the website too.
But how can they get it?
How can they get in contact withyou?

Erica (52:42):
Yeah, I co host a successful nursing podcast.
It's called Nurses Uncorked.
Uh, and we talk a lot aboutviolence on that podcast.
We put a new episode out everyweek.
I've been doing it for a coupleyears.
It's a, it's a passion project.
You know, you know how much workit is.
It really is.
Um, but it's, it's a greatmedium to have the long form
conversations that you're notlimited like you are on social

(53:05):
media.
But, um, you can find me onvirtually every social media.
platform at the nurse Erica,Erica with a C.
My largest platform is, isTikTok.
I think I have about 600, 000followers.
I post on there daily and thenon Instagram and Facebook and
YouTube.
Those are the four primary ones.

(53:25):
You can also find me on like Xand some of the others, but I
don't post.
Nearly as often and my websitethe nurse or what is my website
nurseerica.
com.

Chris (53:35):
Also, Erica I'm gonna wrap it up here But you know for
all those that are listening andlet's say, you know, you have a
new intern nurse You know, youhave a nurse first year out
however many years out What isthe one piece of advice that you
would give to that nurse who isscared to report workplace
violence because of fear ofretaliation?
Losing her job or being switchedto another shift.

(53:57):
What is your advice to thatperson?

Erica (53:59):
Yeah, um, first of all, please go in with the knowledge
that going to work should neverbe a matter of life and death,
right?
That that is simply unacceptableand you should never tolerate
it.
Recognize when you are beinggaslit or retaliated against.
You know, I mentioned earliercourage, but I, I have to say,

(54:19):
if I'm being honest, I'm reallykind of at a point after years
and years of saying everythingand all the advocacy and
traveling around the country andgiving speeches, I can't teach
you courage.
That is a choice.
It is a choice.
It's a hard choice, but it's achoice.
And you can do the scary things,as I mentioned.
And understand, like I said,disruption is what catalyzes

(54:42):
change.
So you have to be willing toturn off all of the people that
are going to be whispering inyour ear, saying, there's no
point in reporting it.
They're going to fire you if youdo this, you know.
Stop listening to that garbageand just stay true to what you
know that going to work shouldnot be a matter of life and
death, and that it is your rightto report it, and then you need

(55:06):
to proactively always becreating that paper trail to
protect yourself.

Chris (55:12):
Absolutely.
Well, Erica, thank you so muchfor making the time today.
For everyone out there, we willpost all the information for
Nurse Erica, or Etsy Shop, allthe information about the bill
that we're supporting here too,and thank you for all you do.
Hopefully we'll be in contact inthe future.

Erica (55:27):
Thank you so much for having me.
So I want to thank Nurse Ericafor joining us today and for
bringing that perspective to ourlisteners.
Again, this is not an issue thatis solely going to affect our
healthcare providers.
This is gonna affect everyone inour communities.

(55:49):
As such, we all need to continueto speak out against healthcare
worker violence.
We need to continue to hold ourelected officials accountable
when it comes to the laws thatare on the books for protecting
healthcare providers.
And to be frank, we need to holdhospital systems accountable as

(56:09):
well.
This is something that we'reseeing.
This is something that we areseeing exponentially now.
It's going up in its incidentsand.
Couple that with nursingshortages and physician
shortages and healthcareprovider shortages just in
general, and you have a recipefor disaster, you have a recipe
in which you're gonna have worsehealthcare, you're gonna have a

(56:32):
whole generation of folks whoare going to be traumatized
mentally and physically due tothe inaction of a lot of
governing bodies.
We're gonna have someinformation out about Nurse
Erica's page to show yoursupport and things to do to help
protect healthcare providers.

(56:54):
This is an exclusive to thispodcast, but currently we are in
the works with the MilwaukeeBase Artery Link.
Uh, a lot of you may know themfrom their t-shirts and their
swag and everything that they dogreat here in the city of
Milwaukee, but there will be alimited edition shirt that we
will post to the website gearedtowards showing your support for

(57:18):
healthcare worker rights as wellas to stand against healthcare
worker violence.
So we will post that.
Uh, be on a lookout for that andgrab your shirt.
Uh, we are going to wear this insolidarity.
We are going to force the handof folks in charge to make sure
that we ourselves are kept safe.

(57:38):
Our patients are kept safe andour hospitals are environment
for healing and not for harm.
So that being said I want tothank you all for coming out
Looking forward to seeing youthe next time and