Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris (00:00):
Welcome to pulse check, Wisconsin.
(00:27):
Good morning, good evening, goodafternoon.
This is Dr.
Ford with Pulse check,Wisconsin.
I want to thank you for joiningus again here today.
We have a very special episodefor you.
I don't know if you guys havebeen watching the news, but in
the news, we have seen a lot ofstatements that have been put
out by the HHS Secretary, RFKJunior, and most notably, we've
recently seen.
(00:47):
Articles and headlines aroundthe causes of autism.
Now, this has been somethingthat's been researched for
years.
There's been a lot ofsophistication behind what the
guidelines are, what thestandard is for autism spectrum
to be diagnosed.
We have gone from a very.
Basic, assessment of what autismis to now having a more nuanced,
(01:12):
diagnosis.
So we're starting to see a lotmore kids, uh, and adults, to be
frank, that have been diagnosedwith autism spectrum disorder.
Now, most recent assertions byRK Jr is that there is a
connection between acetaminophenor Tylenol.
And autism.
And so I wanted to, bring to theforefront one of my partners,
(01:35):
Dr.
Kristin Lyerly, who is a boardcertified ob gyn to talk about
his assertion that acetaminophencould cause autism in pregnant
patients.
And so we had a really goodconversation looking forward to,
uh, this episode.
Dr.
Lyerly who is not only a ob gyn,but also radio show host, sixth
(01:56):
Generation Wisconsinite, apublic health advocate who
advocated at the time of ourabortion ban for, uh,
reproductive freedoms, at thehighest level.
So, very interested for you tohear what she has to say.
And with that being said, let'sget started.
(02:18):
A big post check thank you to Dr.
Kristen Lyerly, This is my, youknow, I say partner in crime,
public health advocacy here inthe state of Wisconsin, partner
in crime.
So thanks so much for making thetime.
Kristin (02:29):
Hey, thanks for having me.
This is a really importanttopic.
Chris (02:31):
Absolutely.
So, you know, I, I'll, I'll giveyou, I'll start off with a, your
own personal anecdote here.
So, the other day I saw apatient in the er.
And she was about 32 weekspregnant.
Uh, and everything was fine withthe pregnancy.
Everything baby looked good.
I did besdie ultrasound.
Everything looked great.
But she had a cold, she just hadan upper respiratory infection.
Uh, and she came in'cause shewas feeling, you know, cruddy as
(02:53):
we all do this time of year,kids are back in school.
And she asked what she couldtake for her fever.
'cause she came in with a feverand I told her, you know, we
don't wanna do ibuprofen'causethat can be dangerous for the,
for the developing baby.
I told her to do, Tylenol, andso she looked at me like I had
three eyes because she had beenmore up on the news than I had
(03:13):
been because I'd just come off a12 hour shift the, the day
before.
And that our HHS secretary, RFKJunior, told everyone that there
will be a paper and a statementthat he will come out with,
stating that there is apotential link.
Between a prenatal,acetaminophen, and autism.
So I had to go to the big guns.
I wanted to bring out Dr.
Lyerly so she could shine somelight on the actual truth and
(03:35):
the facts and the evidence-basedmedicines we always like to do
here at post check.
So, Dr Lyerly, what are, whatare, what is your initial
reaction to the upcoming HHSreport by RFK Jr that proposes
this link between prenatal,acetaminophen and autism?
Kristin (03:49):
In a word, I'm angry.
I'm frustrated.
I think it's so irresponsible.
I mean, Chris, it doesn't matterwhat kind of medicine you
practice, but for someone in hisposition to project in April
that he's gonna have an answerto the autism.
Epidemic really in September.
You can't predict science likethat.
(04:10):
You can't determine when you'regonna have that kind of
information.
So that alone is really fishy.
Then to put it in the hands ofpregnant people who are just
trying to do the.
Best things for their babies andfor themselves.
It's so profoundlyirresponsible.
We don't have a lot ofmedications that we can use to
(04:32):
treat pain in pregnancy.
Acetaminophen is one that we'vebeen using for a very long time.
We've got a lot of experiencewith it.
And you know, in a nutshell,when it comes to the studies,
some studies have suggested thatthere is an association between.
Acetaminophen use and autism.
Others have suggested that thereis no association.
But the most important thing isan association does not mean
(04:54):
that it causes the disease.
It just means that in some womenwho take Tylenol, they also have
kids who have autism, and thelatest information that's come
out.
Really suggests that therereally isn't a cause and it's
more related to a familial causeor a genetic cause for RFK
Junior, our nation's leadinghealth officer to take this
(05:19):
information and to put it onpregnant people who are.
Just trying to do the best thingfor themselves and their babies
and their families.
I am so disappointed.
Chris (05:28):
Absolutely.
Like we've seen this before,unfortunately, right?
Like this is this weaponizationof bits and pieces taken, taken
from statistical information,taken from studies that may not
have been as rigorous.
One of the studies that I'mpretty sure he is gonna cite,
there was a 2025 study fromMount Sinai, said he only had
about a hundred thousandpatients in it.
And it flagged like, like Dr.
(05:49):
Liley said some.
Potential associations.
Whereas those larger scalestudies as a recent Swedish
study in 2024, they had 2.5million patients in it that
showed no association betweenacetaminophen, Tylenol, and
autism.
So, you know, WW when we havethis picking and choosing
manipulation of statisticalinformation, we end up in these
situations where you and I havea patient sitting in front of us
(06:12):
and they don't know who totrust, they don't know, you
know, what is up and what isdown.
Kristin (06:16):
That is one of the things about you understand this
as well as I do because we bothkind of dabble in politics, but
we are doctors at our core.
Being a doctor means thatwhatever the evidence is is what
it is.
You don't get to control it.
You don't market it.
You don't shine up the outcometo make you look good.
It is what it is and it's reallypainful when you do a study and
(06:39):
you've got a hypothesis outthere and your study.
Proves your hypothesis wrong.
It's, it's like a moral injurybecause you wanna be right, but
you have to go with it becausethat is the actual truth, and
that is what we do as scientistsand as physicians.
Politicians don't do that.
Politicians actually don't evenreally care about the truth.
They're just trying to figureout how they can get a message
(07:00):
to you because they are tryingto win you over all the time.
And this is where Robert F.
Kennedy is so profoundlydangerous.
He's not a scientist.
He's an attorney at his core,and there is, there are some
good things that he's done inthe past.
Like I agree.
We need to remove some of theseenvironmental toxins.
We need to make the world asafer place for all of us, not
(07:21):
just pregnant people.
Some of these things that gointo our foods, like the ultra
processed foods, we know they'renot healthy for us.
I wish he would focus on thatstuff.
Because that is real.
But when it comes to this orvaccines, that is really where
he has been very visible and wewere all really concerned about
this from the very beginningwith him, and we heard him deny
(07:42):
it in his initial confirmationhearings that he was not an
anti-vax person.
Clearly he is an anti-vaxperson, so that is another
dimension of this acetaminophenor Tylenol in pregnancy issue.
It's another thing.
Thing that we are askingpregnant people to put into
their bodies to protectthemselves, to protect their
fetuses.
That they are hearing on TikTokand from some of the higher ups
(08:05):
in the government, in politics,that these things are not safe
for them.
They are safe.
They do keep you safe.
Please trust your doctors, notpoliticians.
Chris (08:14):
Can you identify for our listeners out there briefly
summarize our audience, thecurrent.
State of scientific consensusaround acetaminophen because you
and I both have done interviewsand we've talked about, you
know, methotrexate, we've talkedabout a number of different
medications and we've oftencompared it to acetaminophen
being as safe as that because ofhow rigorous the studies have
been.
Right.
So could you give us a breakdownof the safety of use during
(08:36):
pregnancy and for fetaldevelopment?
Kristin (08:39):
Hey, in a word, there is no known danger to using
acetaminophen or Tylenol inpregnancy.
And I'm gonna actually read toyou what the American College of
Obstetricians and Gynecologistsrecommend because I think it's
really important to say itexactly the way that they do.
They say any medication takenduring.
Pregnancy should be used only asneeded in moderation.
(09:04):
And after the pregnant patienthas consulted with their doctor.
And the thing that I love aboutthat recommendation is that it's
about you.
It's not about the random personwho's out there or the casual
observer of a TikTok video thatwas put out there to get clicks
and likes.
It is about you, your.
(09:24):
Values, your health, yourdesires, and your concerns.
If you are experiencing pain andyou need to take something for
your pain, this may be the rightthing for you to take or it may
not.
That depends on you as anindividual, and the only person
who can help you make thatdecision is your doctor, not RFK
Junior and not a TikTok video.
Chris (09:45):
Absolutely.
It, it, it, there's no mysterybehind this that almost every, I
think at this point,organization of physicians, you
know, emergency medicine,obstetricians, cardiologists,
everyone has stood in oppositionagainst these recommendations
from the HHS.
Then there's a reason why we allare.
On platforms like this, there'sa reason why we all are speaking
(10:06):
out in, in, in droves, just toshow our patients that, no, this
video may be loud.
This TikTok clip may becatching, it may be viral, da
da, da, but these are the facts.
This is the truth, and it'sabout the time that physicians
stand up and that we.
Combat this disinformation onthese platforms on social media
as well, because the mistruthsare out there.
We need to get the truth outthere.
Kristin (10:27):
You're so right and it's hard for us as doctors.
We are not trained to talk withmedia.
We are not trained to do thiskind of a social media thing,
and frankly, we're really busy.
There's a doctor shortage.
Most of us are working likecrazy just to take care of our
own individual patients.
So that's why you don't see asmany regular doctors as Dr.
(10:47):
Ford and I out there sharingthis information.
But I think we're seeing moreand more doctors who sense that
we need to speak up.
I mean, how many times did yousee as an emergency medicine
doctor, people show up in yourER during COVID having.
Strength the Kool-Aid, havingbelieved what politicians, like
(11:08):
Ron Johnson said about the COVIDvaccine and about making
yourself, keeping yourself safeduring COVID, and there they
were sick and vulnerable, and atthat moment they understood that
they needed help.
They needed something different,and you could do nothing for
them because prevention was whatwas necessary.
I can't imagine how crushingthat was for you.
(11:29):
Yeah,
Chris (11:30):
no, and, and you know, we're, we're seeing it again,
right?
Like you, you brought upvaccines here and we'll have an
episode coming up with apediatrician that I just did
recently.
Then when she talked about herexperiences, where, you know,
the the MMR vaccine wasn'tavailable, and she saw the
reality of children's coming in.
They had an entire wing formeasles, right.
And you could see, you know, howmany of those kids were
(11:51):
affected.
And unfortunately were at theprecipice of.
Not only measles, but otherconditions that are avoidable.
You have that ounce ofprevention, right, that we, we
may be faced with here in theUnited States.
So, you know, these are timesthat that, that we need
advocates more so than anythingelse.
We need community leaders tostand up against this as much as
possible
Kristin (12:09):
just north of us here in, in Oconto County, we've got
a significant measles outbreakright here in Wisconsin.
And all of those folks areunvaccinated.
And two thirds of them arechildren.
So we are really putting ourchildren at risk by not making
responsible evidence-baseddecisions for our own
healthcare.
Chris (12:27):
Absolutely.
In your information, given someof these suggestions that are
coming outta HHS and theserecommendations that are coming
out.
How should obstetricians, howshould physicians counsel their
patients in, in, in light ofthese contentions that we're
having, that, you know, thisheadbutting that we're having
with these misguidedrecommendations,
Kristin (12:45):
it's just like everything else.
This has to be about you.
So shared decision making, usingevidence and data, and your own
personal information andquestions and needs and desires.
That is what needs to go intohow you choose to proceed with
your health.
You know, to be very fair, thereare people who should not take
(13:07):
acetaminophen.
There are people who should notget vaccines, but most people
can, and most people can do itsafely.
And if you choose to do that inyour pregnancy, you deserve to
be supported.
You deserve the information thatyou need so that you can live
your healthiest and best life,both for you.
And for the baby that you'regrowing inside of you and for
(13:27):
your whole family.
So there is a lot at stake here.
But the heart of it is makingimportant evidence-based
personalized medical decisions,not letting politicians
influence you.
Absolutely.
Chris (13:42):
Another thing this upcoming HHS report reportedly
is gonna mention is how lowfolate status is a risk factor,
and he suggests that phonic acidsupplementation for reducing
autism symptoms is there.
Any science that you, that youknow of, like coming from the
ACOG perspective on thisapproach?
Kristin (14:00):
I am not familiar with any good data.
On this, and in fact, ACOG hasnot published any information
about this.
In particular, my suspicion, andthis is what tends to happen
with these pseudoscienceinterventions and
recommendations, is they findthis grain of something that
could have some truth to it.
(14:20):
A great example is Ivermectin inCOVID.
Ivermectin has been shown in aPetri dish to treat COVID, but
it's giant doses that peoplecan't tolerate and it doesn't
actually work in human beings,but they take that little bit of
information that works in thelab and they blow it up and they
make it a political issue.
It's the same thing here.
(14:40):
We have to be really carefulabout how we use science, really
responsible, and we have toaccept that responsibility when
science takes a turn and doessomething that we don't want it
to do.
Because that is the truth.
That's what science does, andthat is our obligation as
scientists and physicians tofollow through with our
patients.
Chris (14:59):
Yeah.
And again, science doesn't careabout your argument.
It doesn't care about yourposition.
Science is science.
Right.
It is measurable.
That's right.
It's repeat.
It is reproducible.
Right.
And so that is what we weretaught in our medical training.
That's how scientists do theirresearch.
That's, that's the goldstandard.
And so we need to continue toadhere to it.
Kristin (15:15):
That's exactly right.
And we need to make our ownpersonal healthcare decisions
based on our own personal needs,not.
Political whims.
Chris (15:23):
Finally, Dr.
Lyerly what is the single mostimportant takeaway that you
would have for a pregnant personright now if they were sitting
in front of you regardingacetaminophen use, regarding
some of the things that they mayhear in this report?
Because these are the smallthings that we are, you know,
surmise will be in the report,but who knows what else is gonna
be there.
So what, what otherrecommendations do you have for
(15:43):
those folks?
Kristin (15:43):
Yeah, and these things really influence people's
decision making and they reallyundermine trust in your
physician.
So I think the most importantthing that we as physicians can
do is to build that trust back,and the only way to do that is
to listen and to be consistentand reliable and then to
reassure our patients that thoseare just things that people are
(16:05):
saying that's entertainment.
It is literally justentertainment.
I am here for you and I want youto have the information that you
need to make your besthealthcare decisions.
Chris (16:17):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Straight from the source.
Dr.
Liley, I thank you so much formaking the time, for coming out,
answering some of thesequestions from our listeners and
hope to have you back.
Best of luck with everything.
Glad to have you back in thestate of Wisconsin too.
Kristin (16:29):
It is so good to be back and Dr.
Ford, anytime you wanna hangout, you know I am in here the
best.
Chris (16:35):
I got you.
I got you my friend.
Alright, have a good one.
I think the common theme is thatwe are living in unprecedented
times.
Where up is down and down is upand there's something to be said
about that.
There's something to be saidabout the stance that we all are
taking and that we all have totake in order to better the
(16:55):
lives of our patients in orderto maintain the integrity of the
science that is needed tomaintain public health.
And so I want everyone who islistening to this to know that
we all are gonna continue tofight for your health, continue
to fight for the public good,,and to continue to speak out for
all of my healthcare providers,all of my allied healthcare
(17:18):
workers.
Continue to fight for yourpatients, continue to fight for
your families, and for yourcommunities because this
disinformation andmisinformation has long been
getting out of control.
And unfortunately now we aregoing to have to stand at
attention and to push evenharder now that the information
is coming from the highestoffices.
(17:40):
On another note, I wanted to, Idedicate this episode to my
grandmother, Patricia Sledge,who recently, lost her battle to
cancer.
A couple days ago.
Um, you know, I don't reallytalk about family that much on
(18:01):
this platform or other platformsthat I'm on because as you can
imagine, uh, in the line of workthat I do, there's a lot of
targeting that is involved, uh,a lot of public and private
attacks that happened.
But, um, I want, to dedicatethis episode to her memory.
I called her Mima.
Uh, she was.
(18:21):
Since as long as I can remember,one of my biggest fans, she
always supported me.
She always, was in my corner nomatter what.
And, um, she will be a huge lossfor my family.
Uh, and for me personally, um,we would talk often before
shifts.
That I would have.
(18:41):
Uh, she would always end ourconversations with Christopher,
you doing God's work continue todo God's work and she would
extend that when I started thepodcast to, the public health
work that I'm doing as well.
And so, um, I'm gonna continueto dedicate episodes like this
(19:03):
and efforts like this that I doin the community to her, because
we all gonna have to.
Use our resources and use whatwe have learned in order to make
our communities better in orderto continue to get the right
messaging out there for ourpatients.
And so, um, Mima, I love you.
(19:25):
Um, we all love you.
Uh, we all know that you will belooking down on us continue to
guide us throughout, the rest ofour day.
So, um, I thank all thelisteners for, uh, tuning in
today and, um, uh, lookingforward to seeing you on the
next go round.
Welcome to pulse check, Wisconsin.
(00:27):
Good morning, good evening, goodafternoon.
This is Dr.
Ford with Pulse check,Wisconsin.
I want to thank you for joiningus again here today.
We have a very special episodefor you.
I don't know if you guys havebeen watching the news, but in
the news, we have seen a lot ofstatements that have been put
out by the HHS Secretary, RFKJunior, and most notably, we've
recently seen.
(00:47):
Articles and headlines aroundthe causes of autism.
Now, this has been somethingthat's been researched for
years.
There's been a lot ofsophistication behind what the
guidelines are, what thestandard is for autism spectrum
to be diagnosed.
We have gone from a very.
Basic, assessment of what autismis to now having a more nuanced,
(01:12):
diagnosis.
So we're starting to see a lotmore kids, uh, and adults, to be
frank, that have been diagnosedwith autism spectrum disorder.
Now, most recent assertions byRK Jr is that there is a
connection between acetaminophenor Tylenol.
And autism.
And so I wanted to, bring to theforefront one of my partners,
(01:35):
Dr.
Kristin Lyerly, who is a boardcertified ob gyn to talk about
his assertion that acetaminophencould cause autism in pregnant
patients.
And so we had a really goodconversation looking forward to,
uh, this episode.
Dr.
Lyerly who is not only a ob gyn,but also radio show host, sixth
(01:56):
Generation Wisconsinite, apublic health advocate who
advocated at the time of ourabortion ban for, uh,
reproductive freedoms, at thehighest level.
So, very interested for you tohear what she has to say.
And with that being said, let'sget started.
(02:18):
A big post check thank you to Dr.
Kristen Lyerly, This is my, youknow, I say partner in crime,
public health advocacy here inthe state of Wisconsin, partner
in crime.
So thanks so much for making thetime.
Kristin (02:29):
Hey, thanks for having me.
This is a really importanttopic.
Chris (02:31):
Absolutely.
So, you know, I, I'll, I'll giveyou, I'll start off with a, your
own personal anecdote here.
So, the other day I saw apatient in the er.
And she was about 32 weekspregnant.
Uh, and everything was fine withthe pregnancy.
Everything baby looked good.
I did besdie ultrasound.
Everything looked great.
But she had a cold, she just hadan upper respiratory infection.
Uh, and she came in'cause shewas feeling, you know, cruddy as
(02:53):
we all do this time of year,kids are back in school.
And she asked what she couldtake for her fever.
'cause she came in with a feverand I told her, you know, we
don't wanna do ibuprofen'causethat can be dangerous for the,
for the developing baby.
I told her to do, Tylenol, andso she looked at me like I had
three eyes because she had beenmore up on the news than I had
(03:13):
been because I'd just come off a12 hour shift the, the day
before.
And that our HHS secretary, RFKJunior, told everyone that there
will be a paper and a statementthat he will come out with,
stating that there is apotential link.
Between a prenatal,acetaminophen, and autism.
So I had to go to the big guns.
I wanted to bring out Dr.
Lyerly so she could shine somelight on the actual truth and
(03:35):
the facts and the evidence-basedmedicines we always like to do
here at post check.
So, Dr Lyerly, what are, whatare, what is your initial
reaction to the upcoming HHSreport by RFK Jr that proposes
this link between prenatal,acetaminophen and autism?
Kristin (03:49):
In a word, I'm angry.
I'm frustrated.
I think it's so irresponsible.
I mean, Chris, it doesn't matterwhat kind of medicine you
practice, but for someone in hisposition to project in April
that he's gonna have an answerto the autism.
Epidemic really in September.
You can't predict science likethat.
(04:10):
You can't determine when you'regonna have that kind of
information.
So that alone is really fishy.
Then to put it in the hands ofpregnant people who are just
trying to do the.
Best things for their babies andfor themselves.
It's so profoundlyirresponsible.
We don't have a lot ofmedications that we can use to
(04:32):
treat pain in pregnancy.
Acetaminophen is one that we'vebeen using for a very long time.
We've got a lot of experiencewith it.
And you know, in a nutshell,when it comes to the studies,
some studies have suggested thatthere is an association between.
Acetaminophen use and autism.
Others have suggested that thereis no association.
But the most important thing isan association does not mean
(04:54):
that it causes the disease.
It just means that in some womenwho take Tylenol, they also have
kids who have autism, and thelatest information that's come
out.
Really suggests that therereally isn't a cause and it's
more related to a familial causeor a genetic cause for RFK
Junior, our nation's leadinghealth officer to take this
(05:19):
information and to put it onpregnant people who are.
Just trying to do the best thingfor themselves and their babies
and their families.
I am so disappointed.
Chris (05:28):
Absolutely.
Like we've seen this before,unfortunately, right?
Like this is this weaponizationof bits and pieces taken, taken
from statistical information,taken from studies that may not
have been as rigorous.
One of the studies that I'mpretty sure he is gonna cite,
there was a 2025 study fromMount Sinai, said he only had
about a hundred thousandpatients in it.
And it flagged like, like Dr.
(05:49):
Liley said some.
Potential associations.
Whereas those larger scalestudies as a recent Swedish
study in 2024, they had 2.5million patients in it that
showed no association betweenacetaminophen, Tylenol, and
autism.
So, you know, WW when we havethis picking and choosing
manipulation of statisticalinformation, we end up in these
situations where you and I havea patient sitting in front of us
(06:12):
and they don't know who totrust, they don't know, you
know, what is up and what isdown.
Kristin (06:16):
That is one of the things about you understand this
as well as I do because we bothkind of dabble in politics, but
we are doctors at our core.
Being a doctor means thatwhatever the evidence is is what
it is.
You don't get to control it.
You don't market it.
You don't shine up the outcometo make you look good.
It is what it is and it's reallypainful when you do a study and
(06:39):
you've got a hypothesis outthere and your study.
Proves your hypothesis wrong.
It's, it's like a moral injurybecause you wanna be right, but
you have to go with it becausethat is the actual truth, and
that is what we do as scientistsand as physicians.
Politicians don't do that.
Politicians actually don't evenreally care about the truth.
They're just trying to figureout how they can get a message
(07:00):
to you because they are tryingto win you over all the time.
And this is where Robert F.
Kennedy is so profoundlydangerous.
He's not a scientist.
He's an attorney at his core,and there is, there are some
good things that he's done inthe past.
Like I agree.
We need to remove some of theseenvironmental toxins.
We need to make the world asafer place for all of us, not
(07:21):
just pregnant people.
Some of these things that gointo our foods, like the ultra
processed foods, we know they'renot healthy for us.
I wish he would focus on thatstuff.
Because that is real.
But when it comes to this orvaccines, that is really where
he has been very visible and wewere all really concerned about
this from the very beginningwith him, and we heard him deny
(07:42):
it in his initial confirmationhearings that he was not an
anti-vax person.
Clearly he is an anti-vaxperson, so that is another
dimension of this acetaminophenor Tylenol in pregnancy issue.
It's another thing.
Thing that we are askingpregnant people to put into
their bodies to protectthemselves, to protect their
fetuses.
That they are hearing on TikTokand from some of the higher ups
(08:05):
in the government, in politics,that these things are not safe
for them.
They are safe.
They do keep you safe.
Please trust your doctors, notpoliticians.
Chris (08:14):
Can you identify for our listeners out there briefly
summarize our audience, thecurrent.
State of scientific consensusaround acetaminophen because you
and I both have done interviewsand we've talked about, you
know, methotrexate, we've talkedabout a number of different
medications and we've oftencompared it to acetaminophen
being as safe as that because ofhow rigorous the studies have
been.
Right.
So could you give us a breakdownof the safety of use during
(08:36):
pregnancy and for fetaldevelopment?
Kristin (08:39):
Hey, in a word, there is no known danger to using
acetaminophen or Tylenol inpregnancy.
And I'm gonna actually read toyou what the American College of
Obstetricians and Gynecologistsrecommend because I think it's
really important to say itexactly the way that they do.
They say any medication takenduring.
Pregnancy should be used only asneeded in moderation.
(09:04):
And after the pregnant patienthas consulted with their doctor.
And the thing that I love aboutthat recommendation is that it's
about you.
It's not about the random personwho's out there or the casual
observer of a TikTok video thatwas put out there to get clicks
and likes.
It is about you, your.
(09:24):
Values, your health, yourdesires, and your concerns.
If you are experiencing pain andyou need to take something for
your pain, this may be the rightthing for you to take or it may
not.
That depends on you as anindividual, and the only person
who can help you make thatdecision is your doctor, not RFK
Junior and not a TikTok video.
Chris (09:45):
Absolutely.
It, it, it, there's no mysterybehind this that almost every, I
think at this point,organization of physicians, you
know, emergency medicine,obstetricians, cardiologists,
everyone has stood in oppositionagainst these recommendations
from the HHS.
Then there's a reason why we allare.
On platforms like this, there'sa reason why we all are speaking
(10:06):
out in, in, in droves, just toshow our patients that, no, this
video may be loud.
This TikTok clip may becatching, it may be viral, da
da, da, but these are the facts.
This is the truth, and it'sabout the time that physicians
stand up and that we.
Combat this disinformation onthese platforms on social media
as well, because the mistruthsare out there.
We need to get the truth outthere.
Kristin (10:27):
You're so right and it's hard for us as doctors.
We are not trained to talk withmedia.
We are not trained to do thiskind of a social media thing,
and frankly, we're really busy.
There's a doctor shortage.
Most of us are working likecrazy just to take care of our
own individual patients.
So that's why you don't see asmany regular doctors as Dr.
(10:47):
Ford and I out there sharingthis information.
But I think we're seeing moreand more doctors who sense that
we need to speak up.
I mean, how many times did yousee as an emergency medicine
doctor, people show up in yourER during COVID having.
Strength the Kool-Aid, havingbelieved what politicians, like
(11:08):
Ron Johnson said about the COVIDvaccine and about making
yourself, keeping yourself safeduring COVID, and there they
were sick and vulnerable, and atthat moment they understood that
they needed help.
They needed something different,and you could do nothing for
them because prevention was whatwas necessary.
I can't imagine how crushingthat was for you.
(11:29):
Yeah,
Chris (11:30):
no, and, and you know, we're, we're seeing it again,
right?
Like you, you brought upvaccines here and we'll have an
episode coming up with apediatrician that I just did
recently.
Then when she talked about herexperiences, where, you know,
the the MMR vaccine wasn'tavailable, and she saw the
reality of children's coming in.
They had an entire wing formeasles, right.
And you could see, you know, howmany of those kids were
(11:51):
affected.
And unfortunately were at theprecipice of.
Not only measles, but otherconditions that are avoidable.
You have that ounce ofprevention, right, that we, we
may be faced with here in theUnited States.
So, you know, these are timesthat that, that we need
advocates more so than anythingelse.
We need community leaders tostand up against this as much as
possible
Kristin (12:09):
just north of us here in, in Oconto County, we've got
a significant measles outbreakright here in Wisconsin.
And all of those folks areunvaccinated.
And two thirds of them arechildren.
So we are really putting ourchildren at risk by not making
responsible evidence-baseddecisions for our own
healthcare.
Chris (12:27):
Absolutely.
In your information, given someof these suggestions that are
coming outta HHS and theserecommendations that are coming
out.
How should obstetricians, howshould physicians counsel their
patients in, in, in light ofthese contentions that we're
having, that, you know, thisheadbutting that we're having
with these misguidedrecommendations,
Kristin (12:45):
it's just like everything else.
This has to be about you.
So shared decision making, usingevidence and data, and your own
personal information andquestions and needs and desires.
That is what needs to go intohow you choose to proceed with
your health.
You know, to be very fair, thereare people who should not take
(13:07):
acetaminophen.
There are people who should notget vaccines, but most people
can, and most people can do itsafely.
And if you choose to do that inyour pregnancy, you deserve to
be supported.
You deserve the information thatyou need so that you can live
your healthiest and best life,both for you.
And for the baby that you'regrowing inside of you and for
(13:27):
your whole family.
So there is a lot at stake here.
But the heart of it is makingimportant evidence-based
personalized medical decisions,not letting politicians
influence you.
Absolutely.
Chris (13:42):
Another thing this upcoming HHS report reportedly
is gonna mention is how lowfolate status is a risk factor,
and he suggests that phonic acidsupplementation for reducing
autism symptoms is there.
Any science that you, that youknow of, like coming from the
ACOG perspective on thisapproach?
Kristin (14:00):
I am not familiar with any good data.
On this, and in fact, ACOG hasnot published any information
about this.
In particular, my suspicion, andthis is what tends to happen
with these pseudoscienceinterventions and
recommendations, is they findthis grain of something that
could have some truth to it.
(14:20):
A great example is Ivermectin inCOVID.
Ivermectin has been shown in aPetri dish to treat COVID, but
it's giant doses that peoplecan't tolerate and it doesn't
actually work in human beings,but they take that little bit of
information that works in thelab and they blow it up and they
make it a political issue.
It's the same thing here.
(14:40):
We have to be really carefulabout how we use science, really
responsible, and we have toaccept that responsibility when
science takes a turn and doessomething that we don't want it
to do.
Because that is the truth.
That's what science does, andthat is our obligation as
scientists and physicians tofollow through with our
patients.
Chris (14:59):
Yeah.
And again, science doesn't careabout your argument.
It doesn't care about yourposition.
Science is science.
Right.
It is measurable.
That's right.
It's repeat.
It is reproducible.
Right.
And so that is what we weretaught in our medical training.
That's how scientists do theirresearch.
That's, that's the goldstandard.
And so we need to continue toadhere to it.
Kristin (15:15):
That's exactly right.
And we need to make our ownpersonal healthcare decisions
based on our own personal needs,not.
Political whims.
Chris (15:23):
Finally, Dr.
Lyerly what is the single mostimportant takeaway that you
would have for a pregnant personright now if they were sitting
in front of you regardingacetaminophen use, regarding
some of the things that they mayhear in this report?
Because these are the smallthings that we are, you know,
surmise will be in the report,but who knows what else is gonna
be there.
So what, what otherrecommendations do you have for
(15:43):
those folks?
Kristin (15:43):
Yeah, and these things really influence people's
decision making and they reallyundermine trust in your
physician.
So I think the most importantthing that we as physicians can
do is to build that trust back,and the only way to do that is
to listen and to be consistentand reliable and then to
reassure our patients that thoseare just things that people are
(16:05):
saying that's entertainment.
It is literally justentertainment.
I am here for you and I want youto have the information that you
need to make your besthealthcare decisions.
Chris (16:17):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Straight from the source.
Dr.
Liley, I thank you so much formaking the time, for coming out,
answering some of thesequestions from our listeners and
hope to have you back.
Best of luck with everything.
Glad to have you back in thestate of Wisconsin too.
Kristin (16:29):
It is so good to be back and Dr.
Ford, anytime you wanna hangout, you know I am in here the
best.
Chris (16:35):
I got you.
I got you my friend.
Alright, have a good one.
I think the common theme is thatwe are living in unprecedented
times.
Where up is down and down is upand there's something to be said
about that.
There's something to be saidabout the stance that we all are
taking and that we all have totake in order to better the
(16:55):
lives of our patients in orderto maintain the integrity of the
science that is needed tomaintain public health.
And so I want everyone who islistening to this to know that
we all are gonna continue tofight for your health, continue
to fight for the public good,,and to continue to speak out for
all of my healthcare providers,all of my allied healthcare
(17:18):
workers.
Continue to fight for yourpatients, continue to fight for
your families, and for yourcommunities because this
disinformation andmisinformation has long been
getting out of control.
And unfortunately now we aregoing to have to stand at
attention and to push evenharder now that the information
is coming from the highestoffices.
(17:40):
On another note, I wanted to, Idedicate this episode to my
grandmother, Patricia Sledge,who recently, lost her battle to
cancer.
A couple days ago.
Um, you know, I don't reallytalk about family that much on
(18:01):
this platform or other platformsthat I'm on because as you can
imagine, uh, in the line of workthat I do, there's a lot of
targeting that is involved, uh,a lot of public and private
attacks that happened.
But, um, I want, to dedicatethis episode to her memory.
I called her Mima.
Uh, she was.
(18:21):
Since as long as I can remember,one of my biggest fans, she
always supported me.
She always, was in my corner nomatter what.
And, um, she will be a huge lossfor my family.
Uh, and for me personally, um,we would talk often before
shifts.
That I would have.
(18:41):
Uh, she would always end ourconversations with Christopher,
you doing God's work continue todo God's work and she would
extend that when I started thepodcast to, the public health
work that I'm doing as well.
And so, um, I'm gonna continueto dedicate episodes like this
(19:03):
and efforts like this that I doin the community to her, because
we all gonna have to.
Use our resources and use whatwe have learned in order to make
our communities better in orderto continue to get the right
messaging out there for ourpatients.
And so, um, Mima, I love you.
(19:25):
Um, we all love you.
Uh, we all know that you will belooking down on us continue to
guide us throughout, the rest ofour day.
So, um, I thank all thelisteners for, uh, tuning in
today and, um, uh, lookingforward to seeing you on the
next go round.
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