WTF Just Happened?!? Breaking Down the Wisconsin State Budget and the Big Beautiful Bill with Joe Zepecki

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Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Welcome to pulse check,Wisconsin.

(00:32):
Good morning, good evening, goodafternoon.
This is Dr.
Ford with Pulse Check Wisconsin.
I wanna thank you for joining ustoday.
As always, we have another goodepisode for you.
We have Joseph Zepecke, who isthe director of Protector Care
Wisconsin, a friend of mine.
He's a political strategist, uh,has been on multiple
presidential campaigns.
A contributor regularly on civicmedia.

(00:54):
So I wanted to bring him in tobring his expertise to the table
to talk about where we are as astate, as well as where we are
federally with the big,beautiful bill that recently
passed from a healthcarestandpoint, from Medicaid
standpoint, hundreds ofthousands of people throughout
the country will be affected byboth the state and the federal

(01:15):
bills.
So I want to make sure that youall know where we are, know
where we need to go and get moreinformation from a credible
source.
So with that being said.
Let's get into it.

Chris (01:49):
All right.
So we had a lot of news thatwent down over the holiday week.
we heard a lot from the federalbudget.
We heard a lot from the statebudget.
I wanna make sure that we allare in a good spot now that all
the chips have settled.
I wanna make sure we catch allour listeners up because we had
a lot of questions too.
So we had to bring in the bigguns.
we have Joseph pki here, fromProtect Our Care, Wisconsin.

(02:10):
Joe, thanks for being with us

Joe (02:11):
Hey.
Excited to do it.
Thanks for having me, man.
there certainly is a lot goingon.

Chris (02:15):
And I feel like, you know, leading up to it, we got a
lot of news about it, and thenall of a sudden, you know,
governor signed, which we'll getinto a little bit more as well,
and then all of a sudden youdon't hear anything.
So I wanna make sure that weknow where we're at right now
and where we need to go.
one of the things that we talkedabout offline was, here at Pulse
Check Wisconsin, in the past,the last couple seasons we've
been discussing how we want toemphasize, those local policies

(02:38):
with local politics as well, andhow they affect your healthcare,
because those local electionsare gonna make a big difference
in, your health and yourcommunities, But every now and
then we see that silver liningof a direct corollary, direct
nexus between our state politicsand federal politics.
And we saw that with thisfederal budget too.
causing a quick signage byGovernor Evers So could you give

(02:58):
us a breakdown on What happened?

Joe (03:00):
Yeah.
So the federal bill that we willdiscuss, Freezes provider tax
rates.
States that have not expandedMedicaid, Wisconsin is one of
just 10, and so that freezewould've cost the state of
Wisconsin at least$1 billion ayear in federal funding if the

(03:23):
state budget had gone intoeffect after the reconciliation
bill was signed.
As Congress was racing to getthis done and Trump was trying
to force this arbitrary deadlineof July 4th, there's sort of the
two tracks, the federal budgetbill and the state budget bill.
The state budget year ended onJune 30th.

(03:46):
It's not unheard of for thatprocess to take a couple of
extra days, and it did thistime, but then the sort of
unusual occurrence of a governorsigning it at one 30 in the
morning.
Was all about trying to win thisrace to ensure that the state
did miss out on a billiondollars a year for the next two

(04:08):
years in the state budget

Chris (04:09):
and like you say, this is something that could have been
devastating for communities andfamilies in the state of
Wisconsin.
We had, Sarah Rodriguez,Lieutenant Governor come on, and
we talked about Medicaidexpansion.
at that point in time, we weremore optimistic because we could
potentially expand Medicaid, wecould potentially get.
postpartum care, for up to ayear for new moms.
we're entirely 180 on top ofthat.

(04:29):
Now we got the governor, likeyou said, signing at one 30 in
the morning just to make surethat families have those funds
available.

Joe (04:37):
Yeah.
it's not the way you woulddesign this system if you were
doing it with a clean sheet ofpaper.
But it's where we are.
And the governor choosing to dothat and staying up past his
bedtime is good for families andgood for Wisconsin.
So we thank him for doing that.

Chris (04:55):
You know, at the center of all this, and this is one of
the articles that I read, as wewere watching all the fireworks
go off, I'm sitting on my phonethere was a letter from, one of
our favorite congressmen hereWisconsin Congressman Derek Van
Orden, who, pinned this letterto the governor, telling him to
sign what is the context of theletter and what went on with
that?
This is.
Like a soap opera.

Joe (05:14):
Yeah.
I mean, with Congressman DerekVan Orden, there's always a lot
going on and it's almost nevergood.
I do actually think we will givehim like a half single point of
credit for Realiz how bad thebig bill was going to be for his

(05:36):
district and for his state.
the reason we know that isbecause on July 3rd, he rushes
this letter to Tony Everssaying, you gotta sign the state
budget.
You gotta protect this money.
And then despite the fact thathe knows it's so bad that he was
alerting the governor he wentahead and voted for it anyways.

(05:57):
And in the aftermath of thegovernor signing that.
At one 30 in the morning.
He tried to take all the credit.
He was like, oh, he did thatbecause of me.
Which is nonsense because inFebruary the governor had
proposed just this fix to theprovider tax, and so the

(06:19):
governor playing the long game,seeing the whole field was
going, we gotta get this right.
While the governor and advocatesand patient groups were all
urging, Congress, don't do this.
This is insanity.
And pleading with the MAGARepublicans in Congress to not

(06:40):
do this, and they went and didit anyways.
And Derek Van Orden voted forit, not once, but twice.
He voted for it when it was realbad in the house the first time,
and then.
When it got worse in the Senate,it came back and he voted for it
again.
the context here is he's playingpolitics.

(07:00):
He won his race in 2024 by like12,000 votes.
There are more constituents herepresents in Congress right now
on Medicaid than the margin ofvictory he had in 2024.
what he's trying to do is getyou looking over here, say, I
saved you a billion dollarswhile trying to obscure the fact

(07:22):
that he just voted to cut atrillion dollars from Medicaid
in a way that is going to impacthealthcare.
In his district and across thestate and country.
it seems kind of trite to chalkit all up to, well, he's just
playing politics.
He's a politician.
That's what politicians do.
But we should understand, like,this is pretty gross.
To be like, look at the billionI saved.

(07:42):
Don't look at the trillion.
I just cut.
Come on man.
What are we doing?

Chris (07:45):
And this seems to be a part of a playbook, right?
if we're looking, I think it wasa report this morning, and they
talked about, Josh Hawley out ofMissouri, who's doing the same
deal, right?
So, you know, I've savedMissourians, I'm gonna get them
x amount of million dollars for,the radioactive exposure that
they had that's gonna treatthem.
And then at the same time, we'relosing billions of dollars on
the back end.
For Medicaid, right?

(08:05):
Which a lot of Missourians aredependent on in order to, get
their healthcare, get access tosnap funds, things of those
natures, right?
And so, it seems to be over andover again, we're starting to
see these politicians, thesemembers of congress saying, Hey,
this is what I'm giving you.
But, you know, I didn't likethis aspect of the bill, but I
still voted for it.
Right?

Joe (08:23):
they want us to listen to what they say and not watch what
they do.
Whether it is Ron Johnson sayingthat the fiscal picture of the
United States is the greatestthreat we face and our national
debt is outta control.
And then when it comes time todo it, what does he do?
He votes to put$3 trillion moreon the national debt, or Josh

(08:45):
Hawley saying, the coalitionshave changed.
If we're gonna be the party ofthe working man and woman, we
gotta protect Medicaid.
And then when a bill comes outthat's gonna cut a trillion
dollars for Medicaid, he goes.
Well, I'll just vote for itanyways.
But continue to say, that we arenow the party of the working
class.
So the job of all of us is toignore what they say and watch

(09:05):
what they do, because what theyare doing is not living up to
what they're saying.

Chris (09:10):
And then, because the governor had to make such a
fast-paced, signage of thisbill, there's been some
controversy from both sides,right?
So from Democrats andRepublicans at the state side
that are concerned about partsof the budget again, like we
talked about, that 12 month,coverage for new moms, childcare
funds, K through 12 funds aswell.
are there any wins?
What are some of the wins thatyou hear from the States's
budget?
Because you're gonna hear a lotof negatives, a lot of people on

(09:32):
both sides talking about thispremature signage from their
standpoint.

Joe (09:36):
Yeah, there is a way of looking at this, which is like,
if everybody's mad, it'sprobably a pretty good budget
and probably the best about themaps.
nobody gets everything.
When there's divided governmentlike this.
And so to my friends,particularly on the left who are
criticizing the governor, what Iwould say is.
When you are dealing with notjust an unfriendly but a hostile

(09:57):
legislature and you can get to abudget document that has the
largest increase to the specialeducation reimbursement rate in
state history.
That's a win.
When you can get the largestincrease in funding to the UW
system in two decades, that's awin.
And included in that are capitalprojects that we know we've

(10:18):
needed for years so that our UWsystem can keep pace with peer
universities around the Big 10and across the country and
maintain the crown jewel of thestate of Wisconsin, which is our
UW system.
Hundreds of millions of dollarsfor childcare stabilization.
That's good.
no one is pretending that thisis a perfect budget.

(10:39):
But when you have dividedgovernment, you have to take the
wins where you can get them.
And Republicans didn't geteverything they wanted either.
So the story.
Going forward ought to be aboutthis.
Governor was able to work withRepublicans to deliver on
priorities, and if Democrats wina trifecta next year, there's a
lot more we can do, including inthe healthcare space, with some

(11:01):
really innovative ideas thegovernor put forward in his
state of the state and budgetaddress.
To do audits of healthinsurance.
If your denials are getting toohigh, the state is gonna come in
and audit and hold youaccountable so you're meeting
the needs of consumers.
Those are the kinds of winspossible in a future where
Democrats control thelegislature and the governor's
office.

(11:23):
That's not the reality rightnow, and we shouldn't pretend
otherwise.

Chris (11:26):
I was listening to, a recent podcast and, you know,
they had a doc on there thatused to work for, you know, the,
the Obama, cabinet.
he brought up a good point thatpeople voted.
In the last national electionfor change, But what they may
have got in response to that isdestruction, right?
And so we're seeing, you know,unfortunately, there's going to

(11:48):
be dismantling at a federallevel for some of these funds
available for Medicaid.
here back stateside, Robin Voss,we've heard over and over again,
during the national elections, asoundbite of him talking about
Medicaid.
He was framing it as a handout,right?
so we don't wanna expand itbecause, this is gonna
deincentivize working because ofthat whole, BS concept of, these
people who need these funds areunwilling to work.

(12:10):
How do we counter that?
in going forward, how do wecounter that messaging and flip
it as an investment into publichealth and economic growth for
our state.
I think one part of it is

Joe (12:21):
you just gotta call out the lie.
Mm-hmm.
It is a lie, right?
There is no individual inAmerica who is getting handed a
check from Medicaid, period.
That's not how the programworks.
If you have supports fromMedicaid, when you go to the
doctor, the doctor is thenbilling Medicaid directly.

(12:41):
So this idea that there's.
Some healthy 30-year-old kidsitting in his mom's basement
cashing Medicaid checks andusing'em to buy more, you know,
Fortnite coins, right?
it's just a flat out lie Mm-hmm.
and so that's the part where weneed to call out the lie.
Then there's the part of it,which can sometimes go over
people's head, but it's worthsetting the context of like,

(13:02):
when we talk about Medicaid inWisconsin, this is what we're
talking about.
One in four state residents.
24%, get some support fromMedicaid that includes about
150,000 seniors, nearly half amillion children, more than 185
wisconsinites with disabilities.
So these are your neighbors,man.

(13:24):
These are the people you workwith, their family members, the
people you worship with onSaturday or Sunday, every
community is touched byMedicaid.
73.5% of Wisconsinites who getMedicaid are working.
They are currently living up tothat part of it.

(13:44):
But the numbers don't tell thewhole story.
you gotta get to the stories.
we met, a woman named Jessica inJanuary at a round table we did
with Congresswoman Gwen Moore.
Jessica and her husband bothwork full-time.
They have employer-sponsoredhealthcare coverage and their
son, who's eight, maybe nine bynow, has very serious medical

(14:08):
challenges.
And because of things like thelong-term, healthcare waiver and
Katie Beckett and Iris, they'reable to continue working.
Their employer insurance doesn'tget so cost prohibitive that
those companies need to firethem or they need to switch
providers every year.

(14:29):
If their son loses thosesupports, at least one of mom or
dad is gonna have to leave theworkforce to provide the care
full-time for their child.
when you repeat that across thenearly half a million kids in
the state, we are talking aboutsecond and third order impacts
to our economy, to ourcommunities.

(14:51):
We can't afford that.
When we talk about, why doesn'teverybody on Medicaid work,
we're talking about a 9-year-oldboy?
both of his parents are workingand the value they add to the
economy and to their community,and the availability of Medicaid
provides another job forsomebody to operate as a
caregiver for their son.
Now we're talking about a netpositive benefit as opposed to a

(15:15):
burden on that family and onthat community.
And so it's a little bit, callout the lie, it's a little bit,
talk about how common this is inevery part of the state, and
it's a little bit about puttingthat color behind, you know, the
types of families impacted bythis because in that story,
everybody knows.

(15:36):
Somebody, Whose kid has got somemedical challenges.
Everybody knows somebody whoseparents are getting up there
trying to raise their own kidsand their parents aren't doing
well, they're falling on poorhealth.
And as opposed to having to movemom or dad into the house and
provide that care for them, theyget to stay in an assisted
living facility.

(15:57):
'cause of Medicaid and, andthat's what we're talking about.
If, if they have to move thatparent in with them, that
impacts everybody.
Impacts the number of hours theycan work.
Like we have to tell the storiesso that people can see
themselves in it and understandI might be working right now, I
might have employer sponsoredcoverage.
But.
If mom or dad trips and falls ortakes a tournament with their

(16:20):
health, all of a sudden youmight be dependent on Medicaid
too.
And once you start seeingyourself in that story, you
begin to understand.
This is insanity.
Exactly.

Chris (16:30):
Exactly.
we are all one accident awayfrom being bankrupted by a
medical condition.
Right.
that is the reality that themajority of families in this
state and country live with.
And not only that, the effectsthis is gonna have on rural
populations, right.
We, we've noted.
323 hospitals over the lastthree years in the red each

(16:51):
year.
Right.
That is gonna be funding andwe'll get into it with the, you
know, we'll, we'll, we'lleventually get into the big
beautiful build now.
But you know, that is going tobe funding that's gonna be
missing from these populations.
You are going to gut thesecommunities from any hospitals
that are available for miles,right?
And rural populations, urbanpopulations, et cetera.
And how are you gonna get peoplethere?
Right?

(17:11):
How are you gonna get.
Some of these locations don'teven have EMS crews, right?
they're putting in private EMScrews to get people from
hospital to hospital.
So, you know, I feel like theeffects are gonna go beyond what
a lot of people are having inthe front of their mind.
Mm-hmm.
but unfortunately it's gonna bethis reality that we're gonna be
faced with.
So, yeah.
Let's get into it.

(17:31):
Big beautiful Bill, we'll turnto Washington.
What is your read, because we'restuck with it now.
What is your read on theso-called big beautiful bill?
What is it and what's at stakefor Medicaid from a federal
standpoint,

Joe (17:42):
number of ways in which this legislation is bad is mind
boggling and confounding.
So he just, these are the toptakeaways.
Ads$3 trillion to the nationaldebt, undermines our economic
competitiveness with China,who's about to eat our lunch

(18:03):
when it comes to renewableenergy?
By the way, the way they'redoing that is gonna make you, me
and everybody else pay more onour utility bills, whether
you're an individual or abusiness.
It exacerbates income inequalitybecause those at the highest end
will see their net worthincrease, and those under$60,000

(18:25):
a year will see their net worthdecrease.
It makes everyone pay more forhealthcare, which we can get
further into, but like it is alose, lose, lose, lose, lose
proposition.
All to do one thing.
Make sure that the richestAmericans get to hold on to

(18:46):
their precious tax cuts andaren't we glad that Mark
Zuckerberg can buy anotherisland?
Jeff Bezos can spring foranother yacht or maybe, you
know, put a couple bucks away toreserve a European city for his
next wedding like he just did inVenice on the second marriage,
like 60 million.

(19:08):
This is insanity that we aregoing to continue to just flood
the richest Americans with moredollars while literally taking
from those who are working thehardest.
Making the least and make theirnet worth go down and make them

(19:28):
pay more for everything.
It's madness.
we should probably get into someof the healthcare piece.
People go like, okay, well whatdoes that mean?
how's it gonna make me pay morefor healthcare?
I'm not one of the 17 millionAmericans who's gonna get kicked
off my healthcare.
Well, guess what?
Your healthcare costs are stillgoing to go up because when the
dollars disappear.

(19:49):
The needs for care don't.
now more of those needs areknown as uncompensated care.
What business in the world justtakes that l They don't.
When they have to provide moreuncompensated care, they turn
around and pass those costs onto the rest of us.

(20:09):
You mentioned hospital closures.
This is a real easy calculation.
I don't understand why peopledon't get it.
Like of those 323, I think it isnationally.
At least three of them are inWisconsin, osteo Stanley and one
other in a rural community wherefor three years in a row,
they've been in the red.
That puts them at dire risk ofclosing and now they're gonna

(20:32):
have less federal support.
Well, folks do the math.
If hospitals close.
That means the supply goes downwhile the demand stays the same.
Anybody who's ever taken aneconomics course can tell you
that is a recipe for higherprices.
And this bill does the sort of,the two step on healthcare.

(20:53):
It is ending tax credits forObamacare plans.
So these are people who areworking.
But don't have employersponsored coverage.
Maybe they're gig workers.
the beauty of these advancedpremium tax credits was that
they pegged what you pay forhealth insurance to what you

(21:13):
earn based on a percentage ofyour income.
So if you were making 20 5K,seven and a half percent, if you
were making 35 or 40 K, 7.5%,that is now done with at the end
of this year.
That makes.
Healthcare insurance, lessaffordable.
For those folks.
More uncompensated care.

(21:34):
It also forces millions ofAmericans off Medicaid, not by
turning around tomorrow andsaying like, you lose it, you
lose it, you get to keep it, youlose it, and all of a sudden we
get to tens of millions.
by trying to bury folks inpaperwork And reporting and
recertification just considerthe absurdity of that.

(21:56):
A lot of the adults who are onMedicaid for things like
assistive mobility devices,These are permanent conditions
that are not gonna heal.
They're not gonna get anybetter.
And now, instead of certifyingmy disability once a year.
Now I gotta do it 2, 3, 4 timesa year.

(22:16):
that means they gotta take timeoff of work as they close all
these government offices.
Maybe they gotta travel evenfurther to go and do that.
God forbid you miss one box on aform.
Or God forbid your boss forgetsto sign to show that you worked
the 80 hours a month.
The government then gets, okay,well we're not paying for your

(22:38):
stuff anymore, and now they'velost their Medicaid coverage.
They still have the needs.
we saw this in Arkansas wherethey totally changed the
reporting requirements forMedicaid, and they said, oh,
we're gonna get able bodied,adults who should be working off
of the Medicaid rules and intothe workforce.
Guess what happened toArkansas's workforce?

(22:59):
Not a damn thing.
Like 18,000 people lost accessto those benefits, but the size
of the state workforce stayedexactly the same.
it's all a toxic stew.
That means the rest of us paymore for healthcare.
I don't know who thought thatwas gonna be politically
popular, but.

(23:19):
They should have their headexamined.

Chris (23:21):
and note, these midterm elections are coming up.
for a lot of people out theremake sure that you research your
candidates.
Make sure that you hold thesefolks accountable as Joe has
been saying before.
Watch what they're doing, watchhow they're voting.
Because there's a lot of this11th hour, oh, I knew this was a
bad deal.
Well, you didn't vote underduress.
You have free will to vote myfriends.
we're at a whole different.

(23:41):
Whole different, counterpointhistory here.
So this is insane.
Many critics are saying that,this bill, this gutting of
Medicaid is done under the guiseof fiscal responsibility.
And we don't have to go as farback as, post new deal, post, a
conservative manifesto.
But is that fair?
what are the deeper motivationsbehind these cuts?
what is the mindset?

Joe (24:02):
fair.

Chris (24:03):
Mm-hmm.

Joe (24:03):
it's not like this bill would've passed.
within this century we've calledlike PayGo where everything had
to be paid for.
This is not all paid for.
They didn't pay for the taxcuts.
They're blowing out the nationaldebt What this legislation does,
in my view, is fundamentallyrewrite the social contract,

(24:26):
right?
Like for generations, we haveoperated under the assumption
that the overall societal costof these programs was more than
worth the fiscal impact, right?
so what do we mean by that?
We mean that there is a net goodfor our country.

(24:49):
When fewer people are destituteand desperate, It ensures that
fewer folks who have reallypositive impacts on our economy,
in our communities, on thebroader culture, that fewer of
those folks are burdened byhaving to take care of that
love.

(25:09):
I heard from a friend of mineafter this bill was signed into
law.
This is somebody who coaches andteaches at a high school.
And lemme tell you, there ain'ta high school coach in America
who is overpaid.
the amount of time and energythat they give to kids to help
build these young people up andprovide an outlet, if his son

(25:31):
loses coverage under KatieBeckett.
He ain't gonna have time tocoach.
He's gonna have moreresponsibilities to take care of
his little one, and he will dothat, but it will have a net
cost on his community.
when it comes to what are thedeeper motivations, I'm not
gonna try to divine those.
I think we're always better offquestioning people's judgment

(25:53):
and their choices rather thantheir motives.
this is bad policy.
Pure and simple.
It is reordering thatfundamental deal we made, which
is we can take the fact thatthere will always be people with
challenges in our communitiesand try to work to the best
possible outcome for all.

(26:15):
we have now flipped that on itshead and there's going to be a
cost, not just in terms ofdollars and cents, but in terms
of what our communities lose asa result

Chris (26:25):
And a lot of that loss is gonna be lives, to be honest
with you, right?
it's estimated from these cuts.
We're gonna lose about 50,000people a year, right?
Those are 50,000 parents, 50,000grandparents, right?
Children as well, So these aregoing to be tangible effects for
our communities throughout thecountry, rural, urban, wherever
it's gonna be for everyone.
And so, unfortunately, thesecuts are designed.

(26:48):
To pit, most of our communitiesagainst each other.
A lot of times we get feedback,both from this show and other
efforts that I do with some ofthe, political action committees
as a physician, you guys aredoing this because you're all
Democrats, you guys are doingthis because you're putting us
against, party to party.
The reality.
These cuts are designed to pitworking class Americans against
one another Joe mentioned, theseare gonna be tax cuts for the

(27:10):
billionaires.
this is not anyone's money otherthan those individuals, But how
do we change that conversation?
How do we go from, this isDemocrats versus Republicans and
say these are all of ourcommunities.
How do we expose this, divideand conquer politics that are
clearly at play right now?

Joe (27:25):
Yeah, it is the question.
And I am reminded of an old saw,I don't even know where I first
heard it, but it's like, don'ttell me what you value.
Show me your budget, and I willtell you what you value.
Right?
This federal budget plan, thiscenterpiece of the Trump

(27:47):
economic agenda lays out whatthey value.
Clearly right.
It is more for the haves and itis less for those striving to
have, We ain't gonna call'em thehave-nots because we know that
people who through circumstanceor station in life, don't have
the same privileges and fortunesthat some do are working even

(28:10):
harder.
Striving to live their versionof the American dream, which is
never going to include rentingout the city of Venice for a
wedding.
Right.
They're just saying like, maybeI can be the first generation in
my family to own a house.
It ain't gonna be a McMansion,right?
Mm-hmm.
We're gonna get a small littleone story, but like, but that's
their goal and they're strivingto do that.

(28:32):
we need to change theconversation from fighting over
diminishing slices of the samesize of pie, We need to, adopt a
more Paul Wellstone approach,which is like we all do better
when we all do better, I do notwin when you lose and you do not
win.

(28:52):
When I lose, there is a way inthe most dynamic economy,
strongest economy in the worldto have.
Everyone have opportunity and apathway to prosperity as they
define it.
That's what we need to betalking about and what this bill
has done, what this governingclass in Washington DC is doing

(29:17):
is making those pathways harder.
It is putting more hurdles inthe way, what our approach needs
to be is we don't care.
What you look like, who youlove, where you live, what your
parents did or did not do.
You have an opportunity in thiscountry to maximize your
potential and part of that workof government and policymakers

(29:42):
is removing some of thosehurdles.
That Republicans have now leftin the road.

Chris (29:46):
One of the hurdles that we've seen stateside and it
correlates to this federal bill,is our refusal to expand
Medicaid here in this state.
And we talked a little bit aboutit.
You know, when we talk aboutmaternal, healthcare available
the first year, postpartum, howwould this bill's.
You know, effects intersect withWisconsin, refusal to expand

(30:06):
Medicaid.
And are we now looking at acompounded crisis leading up
into, even after, this budget'sin when we're looking 2027 into
our next budget?

Joe (30:15):
Yeah.
I mean, it's a double whammy,right?
Consider that new mom.
who gets some Medicaid supportfor the first couple of months,
but now feels like she has torace back to the workforce.
Well, she's still got a new babyat home, right?
And now she's got more reportingto do to prove that she's going
to work.
She's got more to ask of herboss who's managing a whole

(30:37):
team, What if she misses a formbecause the baby's sick?
'cause she's gotta run home orshe's an hour under because she
got cut because somebody elserealized like, gosh, you look so
tired.
Like, yeah, the baby was up allnight crying and so they were
trying to do her a solid and nowshe turns out she's an hour
short of qualifying.
this is madness.
It is nonsense.

(30:58):
the maternal one strikes me asclearly a double whammy.
On the overall expansion for thestate.
It's just like the story's over.
We left hundreds of billions ofdollars on the table that were
never getting back.
Right.
people like Robin Voss are outthere like showboats.
See, I told you one day thiscould go away.

(31:19):
That's why it was stupid.
No it wasn't, sir.
with all due respect, we couldhave brought hundreds of
millions of dollars into thestate that could have provided
more MO and could have helpeddefray the cost of more money
for education, more money forinfrastructure, more ability to
stabilize that childcareindustry.
the compounded cost of justturning up our hands and saying,

(31:41):
Nope, we don't want anything todo with those tax dollars we're
already paying in.
And for years now, we've justbeen subsidizing stuff.
In other states, that's a lostopportunity that Wisconsin will
never get back.
And that is again, not toquestion the motivation, it's
just like, that's just poorjudgment.
Full stop.

Chris (31:57):
Mm-hmm.

Joe (31:57):
Bad policy.

Chris (31:58):
Yep.
You know, for those out there, Ihave invited Representative Vos.
I would love to talk.
I've had Governor Evers on here.
We've had a lot of differentrepresentatives, at the state
level, to come on and talk aboutit.
But, he won't come out.
I don't know why that is, Iwould love to talk to him about
these, but it is what it is.
So, let's see what we can donext.
moving forward, We have thesetwo bills that are signed into

(32:18):
place.
As a strategist from yourstandpoint, Joe, what messaging
do you think resonates most withvoters as we move forward, as we
talk about Medicaid, thesemidterms that are gonna be
coming up and the social safetynet.
how do we message this?
How do we go forward?

Joe (32:32):
Yeah, so spoiler alert folks, there is no set of magic
words That suddenly changeseveryone's mind.
You have to consider youraudience, right?
You have to consider the trustand credibility that you have
with them.
You're gonna have a lot moresuccess talking to people you
work with, or fellow familymembers if your kids are on a
team together.

(32:53):
Because they know you and trustyou.
The messenger matters, right?
And we can't be preachy, and wecan't be disgusted at the notion
that anyone would've ever votedfor this.
To me, we have to recognize thatwhere we are is not the fault of
the voters.
It is the fault of, candidatesand movements to fail to

(33:13):
communicate most effectively.
And so how do we do that?
I like to say, we say it withour chest, right?
We do not have to be embarrassedto be progressive and to believe
that people should have accessto healthcare as a fundamental
right, and not a privilege.
And so, you know, we've gonethrough some of the numbers,

(33:34):
we've gone through some of thestories, and I think if we
communicate with grace andunderstand that it is not the
fault of that, stressed out,overworked, underappreciated,
blue collar worker.
Who is so frustrated by thesystem that they were like, I'll
vote for Donald Trump.
I know he's a wrecking ball anda walking, talking middle finger

(33:54):
to an establishment that ain'tworking for me.
You're not gonna get anywhere bylecturing them.
So I think you start by askingthe question like, Hey, how's
your family?
Everybody healthy?
Everybody good?
And let me assure you, within acouple of questions like that,
you will get to a healthcareimpact Their village, whether
their family or extended familyor somebody they know.

(34:17):
then you just lay out the facts,right?
And you build a bridge bycommunicating We don't have to
go through, so-called austeritymeasures to nickel and dime
folks, when we are thewealthiest economy in the world.
And for generations have beenable to live up to that social
contract where we recognizethere is an overall net positive

(34:41):
to making sure those who are,you know, least able to fend for
themselves.
Are able to be fended for.
And that frees up our economy togrow for families to thrive and
for people to realize economicsecurity.
And that is the path that weneed to get back to.
And if we approach it that way,as opposed to getting on our

(35:02):
high horse and, trying to hollerat people because they were so
stupid to vote one way this lasttime, that's not gonna get us
anywhere.
We can also win people's, votethe next time, or earn, their
willingness to hold people likeDerek Van Orden and the other
MAGA Republicans accountable.
We can earn that withoutexpecting them to vote.

(35:23):
Democratic or vote left for therest of their lives.
And in fact, we have to, right?
Because so many of those folksare so righteously frustrated
with a status quo that hasn'tworked.
That's why they thought theywanted change.
And I know that millions ofpeople who voted that way, this

(35:44):
was not the change they werelooking for, right?
They thought they wanted.
Somebody to snap their fingersand to go back to an economy of
2017 or 2018.
You know, a lot of us understandthat economy wasn't working
enough for working peopleeither.

Chris (35:57):
Mm-hmm.

Joe (35:58):
but that's what they thought they were gonna get was
just a return to, oh, just turnthe clock back a little bit and,
that's okay.
we just gotta provide a pathwayfor them to join us in a
righteous movement to make surethat we're taking care of the
least among us and doing so in away that unlocks our economy,
grows the pie overall.
And lives up to what PaulWellstone said, which is when we
all do better, we all do better.

(36:19):
Absolutely.

Chris (36:20):
Absolutely.
I want to give your organizationa plug in.
Organizations like it too, Joe.
there's a growing movement ofhealthcare workers, patients,
advocates who are speaking out.
We've done events together, I'vedone events, with community
healthcare here, nationally aswell.
What advice do you have for.
Anyone in those demographics,trying to fight back, how do
they do that?

(36:40):
And especially in a purple statelike Wisconsin, how can they be
of service

Joe (36:44):
by showing up and showing out, right.
Whether it's.
Telling your story whether it'sprotesting there's nothing more
American than protest.
This country was founded onprotest and we're still trying
to live up to some of thosefounding ideals of, you know, a
pretty good idea almost 250years ago.
and you know.
It's not gonna be easy.

(37:04):
Like progress never comes fastenough in the long arc of this
country's history.
we gotta play the long game.
We gotta understand that wecan't fix this tomorrow, we
can't fix it next week.
We gotta, you know, support thefolks who are impacted by it as
best we can.
And maybe some of that justboils down at the individual
level, giving somebody that peptalk, right?

(37:26):
these reporting requirements aregonna be a burden.
So what can I take off yourplate if it's your eight or
9-year-old who, who needs thisto survive?
What can we take off your plateto make sure you are not among
the folks impacted soonest?
we gotta keep in mind, a lyricto a song by American Aquarium.
the load is heavy and the roadis long, but we've only just

(37:48):
begun to fight.
we must go boldly into thedarkness and be the light.
If we are that light and don'tlet anybody extinguish it, we're
gonna be all right.

Chris (37:59):
That part, you know, to close this out Joe, I was having
a conversation with one of mycoworkers the other day about
all these inflection points inthe history of our nation.
we saw it during the World Wars.
We saw it during the CivilRights movement, right.
I.
I truly believe that this is aninflection point in our
country's history.
I truly believe that the workyou're doing, that the work we
all are doing 40 years from now,we'll look back on it and say,

(38:22):
this is where we stood.
This is how we got here.
40 years from now, when peoplelook back on this political
movement, what do you hope thatthey're gonna say?
That we did it, that we found

Joe (38:32):
a way, and America usually does find a way.
You mentioned the civil rightsmovement.
It took a damn long time to liveup to what was in those founding
documents, right?
We're talking about healthcare.
It was a damn long time betweenthe first idea for universal
health coverage and the passageof the Affordable Care Act.

(38:52):
It was an idea that both partieshad, right?
I just hope that, our grandkidsand great grandkids, see this
moment in retrospect as livingup to some of those prior
moments where we made greatstrides forward.
Whether it was, the passage ofthe 13th, 14th, and 15th
amendments after the war,Winning the, the, the franchise

(39:16):
for women in this country.
Whether it was the civil rightsand voting rights acts of the
1960s, we have long been tryingto live up to what Obama used to
always say.
The moral arc of the universe islong, but it bends towards
justice I hope that 40 yearsfrom now they look back on this
moment with pride, knowing thatwe bent the moral arc a little
bit towards justice in our time.

Chris (39:39):
Brother, we got work to do Joe, always appreciate
speaking with you Thanks forcoming out

Joe (39:42):
Thanks for having me.
Governor Kentucky, Andy Beshearsaid it best when he said
Medicaid is not a red state or ablue state issue.
It's a human issue.
Medicaid affects all of us.
there should be nothingpolitical about making sure a
child can see a doctor, makingsure that your loved ones are
able to receive the care thatthey need, both at the bedside

(40:06):
as well as at home.
Every person, regardless of zipcode regardless of party line,
deserves the dignity ofhealthcare.
We're up for a fight.
And it's gonna be uphill battleto be frank.
We're all gonna have to sticktogether.
We're all going to have to holdaccountable representatives
people in policy and lobbyists.

(40:28):
All of us are going to have tohold them accountable when it
comes to creating environment inwhich healthcare is a given.
Looking forward to our nextepisode.
Stay tuned.
We got some good ones coming upfor you.