November 23, 2025 • 18 mins
Mindy speaks with Connor Grubb's attorney Mark Collins and FOP President Brian Steele!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This weather is beautiful. We are in mid towards the
end of November, and for anyone who was at the
Horseshoe yesterday, what a beautiful day in late November to
watch the final whole game for the Buckeyes. I cannot
believe how mild it was. I know you were there, Robert.
I was there cheering them on right from my living
What football is? I know what football is. It's that
(00:23):
little that round, white and black ball. Oh no, that's
in Europe.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's football.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, I know you're a New Yorker.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well we have football. Well we have the Jets and
the Giants, so let's not talk about that. That's not
considered real football.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
So Robert Cooperman is filling in for Boots today, who
is extremely thankful to not be here because he's moving
from one house to another. And I will tell you this,
there is something very, very unique, and I'd have to say,
and I hate to use the word special, because I
think the word special is so overused. Special anyway, but
(00:55):
there's something so cool about the house that he's moving into.
I'm not at liberty to tell you exactly what this.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
One has working toilets.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yes, Okay, Well, thank goodness. But I will let him
tell you where he's moving. He is moving to Sunbury
and he's super excited. But you know, Robert, we talk
about so many things on this show, and we're going
to get into a lot more why you're here and
what you do with your life. But one of the
big stories, how much do you follow local news?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I try to follow it very often. I'm a part
of the community.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Did you follow the officer Grubb?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Absolutely followed the Officer grub case.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
What'd you think when the vertical was so thrilled?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
There was a big article about it in the Dispatch
the day before, so I kind of refreshed my memory.
And then it was the next day where he was
acquitted and I was so happy.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I think this was one of those cases. And if
you were listening right before we went on the air,
we heard the headlines about Officer Connor Grubb being found
not guilty on all counts, and it's just one of
those cases that so many people were invested in and
listening to and really were waiting to hear what this
verdict was. So fortunately for us. Officer Grubbs attorney is
(02:04):
a very good friend of mine through my husband Mark Collins.
His boys played for my husband mass high school basketball.
Mark Collins, you did such a great job in this case,
and you do with all your cases. What did you
think when you heard the jury's reaction not guilty.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
First and foremost, Mandy, thank you for having me on.
And it was a relief. It was a total relief
and vindication for Connor and his family and they are
very thankful to the jurors efforts and the entire criminal
justice system, to the judge, to the ballot, to the
you know, legal staff, attorney for Judge Young, as well
(02:44):
as a court report. It's just these are typical cases,
and you know, it keeps your faith in the jury
system and you have to actually have jurors who followed
the law and applied the facts to the law.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
When you were in that courtroom every single day making
a case for Officer Grub, was there ever a point
that you thought, you know what, this might not go
our way.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Well, anytime in the criminal justice system, when you're doing
jury trials, you can't control the outcome, and so it's
always a possibility and you have to talk to your
client about that and their family about that, and you know,
sometimes juries get it wrong. Sometimes they get it right.
But it's the best system in the world, and it's
not perfect, but it's an issue where it's the difficult
(03:26):
things in the jury. In the trial are trying to
keep out the kind of false narratives that are put
out there, or the people's initial beliefs, the potential jurors
that come in, and so a lot of the Vordier
process and a lot of these questions that you ask
are to say, hey, you know, do you realize that
this isn't correct. For an example, Mindy, one of the
themes from the prosecution of the civil attorneys representing Miss
(03:48):
Young's family is that Miss Young got shot for shot
because she was feeling something or shoplifting. That couldn't be
more false. Nobody gets shot for shoplifting. My client had
to use force because she came at him with a
thirty five hundred pound deadly weapon of car, and based
on his training and based on the experience of what
(04:10):
they do, they're trained to react a certain way and
he could not get out of the way. So the
reason he had to use force was because she did
not comply with Sergeant moynihand on the side of the
car eight to ten times he said get out of
the car, get out of the car. She did not
comply with him, and then when she came to my
client twice, he said get out of the car. And
then when she came at him with a car, what's
(04:32):
the officer supposed to do in that situation they perceive
a deadly threat, it turns into an actual threat when
it hits him, and he has no idea how fast
he's going, which way she's trying to go, because it
hits them. So that's the difficulty in these types of
cases is to us, it was fairly simple, you know,
lawful entertainment of her. She wouldn't comply, and then she
came at him with a deadly weapon and he had
(04:54):
to respond.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I want to bring into the conversation because everything you're
saying feeds right into our next guest, who is the
FOP president, Brian Steel. Brian, I'm sure when you're hearing
Mark Collins describe that situation, you're chomping at the bit
because you want to add to it, and you would
say the same thing.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Man.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
There's so many cases that if people would just listen
to an officer's demand stop your car, get out of
the car, drop the gun, whatever the case may be.
If they would just comply, so many of these situations
would be completely different, don't you agree, Brian.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I think it was a total of eleven times that
the officers gave lawful commands, and unfortunately miss Young, she
ignored these instructions from the beginning. She ignored, you know,
when the beepers went off, the sensors, when she stole alcohol.
What upsets me the most is the false narratives that
to this day get put out. I was reading an
article on the AP Press and in that article their
(05:50):
their civil rights family lawyer puts in that article that
he had witnesses that said that she put down the
bottles and this fact did not steal. Well, that's completely fun.
We know that from the trial because there's something called evidence.
Store security identified their bottles she sole And to Mark's point,
she was never shot for shoplifting. She was shot because
(06:11):
she struck an officer with her vehicle and the officer
responded and the courts team he was appropriate.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So I have to tell you both. Aside from doing
this show, I also anchor the new news three days
of the week on Spectrum and The Way the story
was written initially didn't mention about the young lady Young
ta Kaya Young moving her car toward the officer at
this one point in the script. Now it did later on,
but I'm like, you can't. You can't say that because
(06:39):
you're making it sound like she was shot for shoplifting,
and that's exactly what you guys are talking about. So
I guess my question to both of you and Brian,
you go first, how do you change that? Because so
many people will read a new story or will see
the newscast and think one way because that's the way
they're being led. How do you change that so officers
don't get this reputation?
Speaker 4 (07:02):
So it's all your bias. Have an anti police bias.
If you think police are an enemy, no matter what
you read, you're going to see it through that lens.
If you support the police, you support the law enforcement,
you're going to see it through that lens. The problem
with our media it seems to be less and less
fact based journalism and more and more headlines. And I'll
give an example. There's been I have a lot of
(07:22):
great friends in this town that are reporters, and we'll
have good interviews, good conversations and I'll often call them
and I'll say, hey, that headline that and this story
is nothing we talked about. And then usually the I
won't say the excuse, but the reasoning is of someone
else does that headlines. So if you have a headline
that says communities divided, you think, wow, our community is divided,
(07:44):
and then you find out that's the opinion from one
person being interviewed. We got to start with the facts
and fact based journalism and.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Mark you do with jury's it's your career. You deal
with them all the time. They're not to read anything
any news guys, They're not to watch anything when it
goes to this case or any case.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Right, that's correct, And the difficulty is that's what the
vordeer process is to try to figure out if they
formed an opinion and what's it formed on fire to
coming into the case, and if they can set that
opinion aside based on incorrect facts and mindy to follow
up on what Brian said, the difficulty from our standpoint
when we defend police officers is ethically, I'm not allowed
(08:23):
to talk about the facts before the trial. I'm not
allowed to put things out there because I may taint
the jury pool, and that's what we don't do. So
take an example, this theme that was put out there
by whoever and the media accepted it was that she
got shot for shot with me. The theme in the
Jason Mead case with Casey Goodson was he got shot
because he had a bag of subway bag in his hand,
(08:45):
which is not true. He had a weapon in his hand.
It was found on the scene. He waved it into
the car and then he pointed it at Jason Mead,
and Jason Mead had to respond. So the difficulty is,
for some reason, the civil attorneys, the civil rights attorneys
or whoever, are able to put a near out there.
But ethically I can't comment on those types of things
nor because I don't want the potential jury pool to
(09:06):
have incorrect facts or facts from my point of view,
and it's basically I abide by the rules in those situations.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Wouldn't the asset hiat Robert Coopman, Wouldn't the ethics apply
to both sides. Shouldn't they also be prevented from doing that?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, I mean the prosecutors aren't the ones doing it,
so I can't believe the prosecutes. It's the outside forces
it's the outside narrative in the community and other things
are being pushed. And again, everybody has a job to do,
and I respect what their jobs are, and but the
issue is it's that fine line that you have to
balance of whether you're tainting a jury pool. And the
difficulty with that, you guys, is that they're in about
(09:45):
a five year span in the country, there was thirty
some officers indicted for use of forced of the use
of force for murder charges. Here in Franklin County within
that same time we had five of them, So we
had one six of the nations charges against officers right
here in Franklin County. Because our grand jury system is broken,
(10:06):
and because the special prosecutors who come in sometimes they
don't understand the law because it's a niche type situation
and there are no jury instructions and our legislature hasn't
put any fourth So those are the kind of issues
that we're trying to stop. We're trying to make people
aware of and hopefully that will then control the narratives
that are incorrect. Before the trial.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
We have one more we have to go to break
real quick. But I want to keep you guys on
for one more segment if that's okay, and then we'll
let you both go. I know it's a beautiful Sunday
and I want you guys to go out there and
enjoy it. But there's still some things I want to
talk to you both about that are very, very important.
Can you hang through one more segment with us?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah? Absolutely, all right, we'll be right back, everybody.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Oh good song choice producer Chris good job. Meanwhile, we're
talking to defense attorney Mark Collins, who just represented officer
Connor Grubb, who is acquitted on all counts. And we
also are bringing into the conversation Brian Steele, who is
the president of the FOP. You know, Mark, I've known
you for years, and it seems like time again and
again you are always representing officers in this situation are
(11:11):
similar situations?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Why, Well, I had the opportunity when I left the
Prosecutor's office, I worked for a firm that represented the
Fraternal Order of Police both locally and the state. So
that's how I started my relationship with them. And you know,
I do individual work for them and it makes up
a portion of our practice in the criminal justice for
our firm. You know, I do mainly only criminal defense.
(11:34):
And so you know, this is a cause that I
believe in and the people that I believe in, and
so it's it's a natural kind of fit. And sometimes
when I'm cross examining an officer, you know, I'm cross
examining an officer on the stand on a separate type
of case. You know, if an officer didn't do the
correct search or something like that.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
You know, I go after them.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
But I trust the officers in these types of situations,
and you know, everybody deserves to be represented, and you know,
we do the best that we can. But I you know,
it's something that I've been doing for about twenty eight,
twenty nine years, and it's you know, Connor Grubb a
special person four years in the Marine Corps. He was
deployed twice overseas. He has two small children, five and three,
(12:15):
and a wonderful wife who's a part time teacher. And
so when you have to sit down, I mean when
I first met him, mindy, he just said, I can't
believe I might get charged. I'm like, you're going to
get charged, You're going to get in dited, he goes no,
and then he wanted to try to testify the grand jury,
and I said, no, it's a done deal. They're starting
with an expert that's never testified in favor of an officer,
(12:35):
and they're going to grand jury with that person. So
it's a situation. Those are the hard things to deal with,
but in the end, you know, you have to trust
the process.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Brian, what do you say to Mark though, to have
a champion like him always in the corner of these
officers when in reality we see just the opposite on
so many different levels, with people disliking police officers anymore,
such a different feeling in our country than what it
was back in September eleventh.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
Yeah, so listen, I can't I can't thank Mark enough
as a professional relationship a personal relationship. He's honest, he's ethical,
and that's why we believe in him, and that's why
we're going to use him. And like Mark said, there's
times that he has to, you know, be on the
other side of an all star understand and we understand that.
As he said, we have a great criminal justice system
as long it's not molested by outside influence, political motivations.
(13:26):
You know, where the calls, where the cards fall, they fall.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well, and you guys are right about the media as well.
The media does have to do a better job of
not take painting a picture with a wide brush as
it did. And I mentioned, you know, the script at Spectrum.
Unfortunately I was able to change it, you know, before
it hit the air, because we have to be fair,
we have to be factual, and you got to be
transparent to the same point. But you can't pick sides
(13:50):
when you're in the media. You just can't mark. What
were you going to say? Because I want to know
one thing. Do you think Officer Grubb will go back
to the police department at Blendon Township.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's a great question. He and his family are going
to talk about it and try to decide what to do.
What I wanted to do is follow up on what
Brian said, Mindy. One of the frustrating's part of this
trial was for law enforcement officers from Franklin County, one
from a nerve of parks, one one from Flunnon Township
or two from Flunnon Township, and another from Westerville. They
all testified about reasonableness, and they all testified about what
(14:23):
they felt was a good tactic that Connor used and
based on their training but at the same time, the
prosecutor in a closing argument talks about the blue line
and stretching the blue line, meaning that somehow those officers
swore under oath, somehow they're saying stuff only in favor
of Connor Grubb because you know they're going to protect them.
And that's when it gets real frustrating. You know, that's
the type of stuff that just has no business going
(14:45):
into the trial, but that you know, it's just ridiculous.
Thank goodness that these officers have someone like Brian Steele
in his group helping them and supporting them, not just
not just day one or day two, but before, during,
and after, and so it makes these cases easier to
deal with emotionally and physically and psychologically.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So, Brian, when you see cases like this, and you
see across the board in a lot of cases, people
absolutely love and respect our law enforcement, no doubt about it.
But you know, you've got those other people that don't,
you know, and they like to make the noise and everything.
How do you inspire young men and young women today
to be an officer? Because I look at it as
(15:25):
a parent, and I think I wouldn't want my son
or daughter to be an officer these days, I really wouldn't,
and that's a sad thing to feel. We should all
want our kids to be law enforcement officers because it's
such an upstanding, it should be respectful job, and they're
there to help the community. But when you see cases
like this, how do you inspire young people to want
to be an officer these days? Brian?
Speaker 4 (15:46):
So I go out there and I talk to young
men and women all the time and try to get
them on a police department, and I always tell them,
I say, look, this is a very challenging time to
be an officer. This is a great time to be
an officer. At the end of the day, I truly
believe and officers know that you over welting majority of
community does support them. The number one question I get
is why would you do a job that you could
(16:07):
die for or maybe go to prison for. And I
always say, because the community is worth it. And that's
just not a cliche buzzwork. Every one of those officers
took an oath to defend their communities, their countries, and
they'll die to do that. The men and women of
our police department are some of the greatest individuals of
the highest character and that's why it's honored to represent them.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
We have about a minute left, about forty five seconds.
Anything you both want to say in closing, Mark will
begin with you again. This is Mark Collins, who represented
Officer Grubb who was just acquitted of all counts. Mark,
what do you want to say? Anything left?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I just I'm speaking now for the legislature and the
powers to be with Dury instructions and stuff. Our system
has to change. We start from a premise of an
officer gets charged with purposeful murder or felony murder what
it's called, and that can't exist because when those legislative
notes were we look through them, it never came into
question what they were trying to do, meaning the legislators.
(17:00):
So this is the only case that we have that
there's not Dury instructions for, and there's not a structure
of how to follow, and we have to create it
each time, and so that's where the missteps come in.
But no, just thankful to our community. Thankful to the
people who came on the jury and spent their time
and emotion and they were crying while the verdict was
being read because we placed them in an impossible situation,
(17:22):
an impossible situation.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, well, I think the majority of people were really
pleased with the outcome of that. And Brian, you have
about twenty seconds. Anything else you want to say, Yeah, just.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
That these cases, you know, attorneys, little legal scholars, they'll
sit and they'll look over Connor Grubb's actions. They'll spend days, weeks, months,
year studying it. Connor Grubb had about a fraction of
a second to make a decision. And that's just the
reality of being a police officer.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Mark Collins, Brian Steele, thank you both so much for
your time today. I think you answered so many questions
in this very important conversation. You guys go enjoy the
rest of your Sunday, enjoy that sunshine out there.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Happy Thanksgiving Mindy to everybody in your family place, you
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Exact same thing, right back back at you, all right,
We'll be right back everybody you're listening to Raw Always
protected by the Undefeated Tattletale
This weather is beautiful. We are in mid towards the
end of November, and for anyone who was at the
Horseshoe yesterday, what a beautiful day in late November to
watch the final whole game for the Buckeyes. I cannot
believe how mild it was. I know you were there, Robert.
I was there cheering them on right from my living
What football is? I know what football is. It's that
(00:23):
little that round, white and black ball. Oh no, that's
in Europe.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's football.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Yeah, I know you're a New Yorker.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well we have football. Well we have the Jets and
the Giants, so let's not talk about that. That's not
considered real football.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
So Robert Cooperman is filling in for Boots today, who
is extremely thankful to not be here because he's moving
from one house to another. And I will tell you this,
there is something very, very unique, and I'd have to say,
and I hate to use the word special, because I
think the word special is so overused. Special anyway, but
(00:55):
there's something so cool about the house that he's moving into.
I'm not at liberty to tell you exactly what this.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
One has working toilets.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Yes, Okay, Well, thank goodness. But I will let him
tell you where he's moving. He is moving to Sunbury
and he's super excited. But you know, Robert, we talk
about so many things on this show, and we're going
to get into a lot more why you're here and
what you do with your life. But one of the
big stories, how much do you follow local news?
Speaker 2 (01:21):
I try to follow it very often. I'm a part
of the community.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
Did you follow the officer Grubb?
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Absolutely followed the Officer grub case.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
What'd you think when the vertical was so thrilled?
Speaker 2 (01:32):
There was a big article about it in the Dispatch
the day before, so I kind of refreshed my memory.
And then it was the next day where he was
acquitted and I was so happy.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I think this was one of those cases. And if
you were listening right before we went on the air,
we heard the headlines about Officer Connor Grubb being found
not guilty on all counts, and it's just one of
those cases that so many people were invested in and
listening to and really were waiting to hear what this
verdict was. So fortunately for us. Officer Grubbs attorney is
(02:04):
a very good friend of mine through my husband Mark Collins.
His boys played for my husband mass high school basketball.
Mark Collins, you did such a great job in this case,
and you do with all your cases. What did you
think when you heard the jury's reaction not guilty.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
First and foremost, Mandy, thank you for having me on.
And it was a relief. It was a total relief
and vindication for Connor and his family and they are
very thankful to the jurors efforts and the entire criminal
justice system, to the judge, to the ballot, to the
you know, legal staff, attorney for Judge Young, as well
(02:44):
as a court report. It's just these are typical cases,
and you know, it keeps your faith in the jury
system and you have to actually have jurors who followed
the law and applied the facts to the law.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
When you were in that courtroom every single day making
a case for Officer Grub, was there ever a point
that you thought, you know what, this might not go
our way.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Well, anytime in the criminal justice system, when you're doing
jury trials, you can't control the outcome, and so it's
always a possibility and you have to talk to your
client about that and their family about that, and you know,
sometimes juries get it wrong. Sometimes they get it right.
But it's the best system in the world, and it's
not perfect, but it's an issue where it's the difficult
(03:26):
things in the jury. In the trial are trying to
keep out the kind of false narratives that are put
out there, or the people's initial beliefs, the potential jurors
that come in, and so a lot of the Vordier
process and a lot of these questions that you ask
are to say, hey, you know, do you realize that
this isn't correct. For an example, Mindy, one of the
themes from the prosecution of the civil attorneys representing Miss
(03:48):
Young's family is that Miss Young got shot for shot
because she was feeling something or shoplifting. That couldn't be
more false. Nobody gets shot for shoplifting. My client had
to use force because she came at him with a
thirty five hundred pound deadly weapon of car, and based
on his training and based on the experience of what
(04:10):
they do, they're trained to react a certain way and
he could not get out of the way. So the
reason he had to use force was because she did
not comply with Sergeant moynihand on the side of the
car eight to ten times he said get out of
the car, get out of the car. She did not
comply with him, and then when she came to my
client twice, he said get out of the car. And
then when she came at him with a car, what's
(04:32):
the officer supposed to do in that situation they perceive
a deadly threat, it turns into an actual threat when
it hits him, and he has no idea how fast
he's going, which way she's trying to go, because it
hits them. So that's the difficulty in these types of
cases is to us, it was fairly simple, you know,
lawful entertainment of her. She wouldn't comply, and then she
came at him with a deadly weapon and he had
(04:54):
to respond.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I want to bring into the conversation because everything you're
saying feeds right into our next guest, who is the
FOP president, Brian Steel. Brian, I'm sure when you're hearing
Mark Collins describe that situation, you're chomping at the bit
because you want to add to it, and you would
say the same thing.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Man.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
There's so many cases that if people would just listen
to an officer's demand stop your car, get out of
the car, drop the gun, whatever the case may be.
If they would just comply, so many of these situations
would be completely different, don't you agree, Brian.
Speaker 4 (05:29):
I think it was a total of eleven times that
the officers gave lawful commands, and unfortunately miss Young, she
ignored these instructions from the beginning. She ignored, you know,
when the beepers went off, the sensors, when she stole alcohol.
What upsets me the most is the false narratives that
to this day get put out. I was reading an
article on the AP Press and in that article their
(05:50):
their civil rights family lawyer puts in that article that
he had witnesses that said that she put down the
bottles and this fact did not steal. Well, that's completely fun.
We know that from the trial because there's something called evidence.
Store security identified their bottles she sole And to Mark's point,
she was never shot for shoplifting. She was shot because
(06:11):
she struck an officer with her vehicle and the officer
responded and the courts team he was appropriate.
Speaker 1 (06:17):
So I have to tell you both. Aside from doing
this show, I also anchor the new news three days
of the week on Spectrum and The Way the story
was written initially didn't mention about the young lady Young
ta Kaya Young moving her car toward the officer at
this one point in the script. Now it did later on,
but I'm like, you can't. You can't say that because
(06:39):
you're making it sound like she was shot for shoplifting,
and that's exactly what you guys are talking about. So
I guess my question to both of you and Brian,
you go first, how do you change that? Because so
many people will read a new story or will see
the newscast and think one way because that's the way
they're being led. How do you change that so officers
don't get this reputation?
Speaker 4 (07:02):
So it's all your bias. Have an anti police bias.
If you think police are an enemy, no matter what
you read, you're going to see it through that lens.
If you support the police, you support the law enforcement,
you're going to see it through that lens. The problem
with our media it seems to be less and less
fact based journalism and more and more headlines. And I'll
give an example. There's been I have a lot of
(07:22):
great friends in this town that are reporters, and we'll
have good interviews, good conversations and I'll often call them
and I'll say, hey, that headline that and this story
is nothing we talked about. And then usually the I
won't say the excuse, but the reasoning is of someone
else does that headlines. So if you have a headline
that says communities divided, you think, wow, our community is divided,
(07:44):
and then you find out that's the opinion from one
person being interviewed. We got to start with the facts
and fact based journalism and.
Speaker 1 (07:51):
Mark you do with jury's it's your career. You deal
with them all the time. They're not to read anything
any news guys, They're not to watch anything when it
goes to this case or any case.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Right, that's correct, And the difficulty is that's what the
vordeer process is to try to figure out if they
formed an opinion and what's it formed on fire to
coming into the case, and if they can set that
opinion aside based on incorrect facts and mindy to follow
up on what Brian said, the difficulty from our standpoint
when we defend police officers is ethically, I'm not allowed
(08:23):
to talk about the facts before the trial. I'm not
allowed to put things out there because I may taint
the jury pool, and that's what we don't do. So
take an example, this theme that was put out there
by whoever and the media accepted it was that she
got shot for shot with me. The theme in the
Jason Mead case with Casey Goodson was he got shot
because he had a bag of subway bag in his hand,
(08:45):
which is not true. He had a weapon in his hand.
It was found on the scene. He waved it into
the car and then he pointed it at Jason Mead,
and Jason Mead had to respond. So the difficulty is,
for some reason, the civil attorneys, the civil rights attorneys
or whoever, are able to put a near out there.
But ethically I can't comment on those types of things
nor because I don't want the potential jury pool to
(09:06):
have incorrect facts or facts from my point of view,
and it's basically I abide by the rules in those situations.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Wouldn't the asset hiat Robert Coopman, Wouldn't the ethics apply
to both sides. Shouldn't they also be prevented from doing that?
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, I mean the prosecutors aren't the ones doing it,
so I can't believe the prosecutes. It's the outside forces
it's the outside narrative in the community and other things
are being pushed. And again, everybody has a job to do,
and I respect what their jobs are, and but the
issue is it's that fine line that you have to
balance of whether you're tainting a jury pool. And the
difficulty with that, you guys, is that they're in about
(09:45):
a five year span in the country, there was thirty
some officers indicted for use of forced of the use
of force for murder charges. Here in Franklin County within
that same time we had five of them, So we
had one six of the nations charges against officers right
here in Franklin County. Because our grand jury system is broken,
(10:06):
and because the special prosecutors who come in sometimes they
don't understand the law because it's a niche type situation
and there are no jury instructions and our legislature hasn't
put any fourth So those are the kind of issues
that we're trying to stop. We're trying to make people
aware of and hopefully that will then control the narratives
that are incorrect. Before the trial.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
We have one more we have to go to break
real quick. But I want to keep you guys on
for one more segment if that's okay, and then we'll
let you both go. I know it's a beautiful Sunday
and I want you guys to go out there and
enjoy it. But there's still some things I want to
talk to you both about that are very, very important.
Can you hang through one more segment with us?
Speaker 4 (10:40):
Yeah? Absolutely, all right, we'll be right back, everybody.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Oh good song choice producer Chris good job. Meanwhile, we're
talking to defense attorney Mark Collins, who just represented officer
Connor Grubb, who is acquitted on all counts. And we
also are bringing into the conversation Brian Steele, who is
the president of the FOP. You know, Mark, I've known
you for years, and it seems like time again and
again you are always representing officers in this situation are
(11:11):
similar situations?
Speaker 3 (11:12):
Why, Well, I had the opportunity when I left the
Prosecutor's office, I worked for a firm that represented the
Fraternal Order of Police both locally and the state. So
that's how I started my relationship with them. And you know,
I do individual work for them and it makes up
a portion of our practice in the criminal justice for
our firm. You know, I do mainly only criminal defense.
(11:34):
And so you know, this is a cause that I
believe in and the people that I believe in, and
so it's it's a natural kind of fit. And sometimes
when I'm cross examining an officer, you know, I'm cross
examining an officer on the stand on a separate type
of case. You know, if an officer didn't do the
correct search or something like that.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
You know, I go after them.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
But I trust the officers in these types of situations,
and you know, everybody deserves to be represented, and you know,
we do the best that we can. But I you know,
it's something that I've been doing for about twenty eight,
twenty nine years, and it's you know, Connor Grubb a
special person four years in the Marine Corps. He was
deployed twice overseas. He has two small children, five and three,
(12:15):
and a wonderful wife who's a part time teacher. And
so when you have to sit down, I mean when
I first met him, mindy, he just said, I can't
believe I might get charged. I'm like, you're going to
get charged, You're going to get in dited, he goes no,
and then he wanted to try to testify the grand jury,
and I said, no, it's a done deal. They're starting
with an expert that's never testified in favor of an officer,
(12:35):
and they're going to grand jury with that person. So
it's a situation. Those are the hard things to deal with,
but in the end, you know, you have to trust
the process.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Brian, what do you say to Mark though, to have
a champion like him always in the corner of these
officers when in reality we see just the opposite on
so many different levels, with people disliking police officers anymore,
such a different feeling in our country than what it
was back in September eleventh.
Speaker 4 (13:02):
Yeah, so listen, I can't I can't thank Mark enough
as a professional relationship a personal relationship. He's honest, he's ethical,
and that's why we believe in him, and that's why
we're going to use him. And like Mark said, there's
times that he has to, you know, be on the
other side of an all star understand and we understand that.
As he said, we have a great criminal justice system
as long it's not molested by outside influence, political motivations.
(13:26):
You know, where the calls, where the cards fall, they fall.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Well, and you guys are right about the media as well.
The media does have to do a better job of
not take painting a picture with a wide brush as
it did. And I mentioned, you know, the script at Spectrum.
Unfortunately I was able to change it, you know, before
it hit the air, because we have to be fair,
we have to be factual, and you got to be
transparent to the same point. But you can't pick sides
(13:50):
when you're in the media. You just can't mark. What
were you going to say? Because I want to know
one thing. Do you think Officer Grubb will go back
to the police department at Blendon Township.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
That's a great question. He and his family are going
to talk about it and try to decide what to do.
What I wanted to do is follow up on what
Brian said, Mindy. One of the frustrating's part of this
trial was for law enforcement officers from Franklin County, one
from a nerve of parks, one one from Flunnon Township
or two from Flunnon Township, and another from Westerville. They
all testified about reasonableness, and they all testified about what
(14:23):
they felt was a good tactic that Connor used and
based on their training but at the same time, the
prosecutor in a closing argument talks about the blue line
and stretching the blue line, meaning that somehow those officers
swore under oath, somehow they're saying stuff only in favor
of Connor Grubb because you know they're going to protect them.
And that's when it gets real frustrating. You know, that's
the type of stuff that just has no business going
(14:45):
into the trial, but that you know, it's just ridiculous.
Thank goodness that these officers have someone like Brian Steele
in his group helping them and supporting them, not just
not just day one or day two, but before, during,
and after, and so it makes these cases easier to
deal with emotionally and physically and psychologically.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
So, Brian, when you see cases like this, and you
see across the board in a lot of cases, people
absolutely love and respect our law enforcement, no doubt about it.
But you know, you've got those other people that don't,
you know, and they like to make the noise and everything.
How do you inspire young men and young women today
to be an officer? Because I look at it as
(15:25):
a parent, and I think I wouldn't want my son
or daughter to be an officer these days, I really wouldn't,
and that's a sad thing to feel. We should all
want our kids to be law enforcement officers because it's
such an upstanding, it should be respectful job, and they're
there to help the community. But when you see cases
like this, how do you inspire young people to want
to be an officer these days? Brian?
Speaker 4 (15:46):
So I go out there and I talk to young
men and women all the time and try to get
them on a police department, and I always tell them,
I say, look, this is a very challenging time to
be an officer. This is a great time to be
an officer. At the end of the day, I truly
believe and officers know that you over welting majority of
community does support them. The number one question I get
is why would you do a job that you could
(16:07):
die for or maybe go to prison for. And I
always say, because the community is worth it. And that's
just not a cliche buzzwork. Every one of those officers
took an oath to defend their communities, their countries, and
they'll die to do that. The men and women of
our police department are some of the greatest individuals of
the highest character and that's why it's honored to represent them.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
We have about a minute left, about forty five seconds.
Anything you both want to say in closing, Mark will
begin with you again. This is Mark Collins, who represented
Officer Grubb who was just acquitted of all counts. Mark,
what do you want to say? Anything left?
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I just I'm speaking now for the legislature and the
powers to be with Dury instructions and stuff. Our system
has to change. We start from a premise of an
officer gets charged with purposeful murder or felony murder what
it's called, and that can't exist because when those legislative
notes were we look through them, it never came into
question what they were trying to do, meaning the legislators.
(17:00):
So this is the only case that we have that
there's not Dury instructions for, and there's not a structure
of how to follow, and we have to create it
each time, and so that's where the missteps come in.
But no, just thankful to our community. Thankful to the
people who came on the jury and spent their time
and emotion and they were crying while the verdict was
being read because we placed them in an impossible situation,
(17:22):
an impossible situation.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yeah, well, I think the majority of people were really
pleased with the outcome of that. And Brian, you have
about twenty seconds. Anything else you want to say, Yeah, just.
Speaker 4 (17:33):
That these cases, you know, attorneys, little legal scholars, they'll
sit and they'll look over Connor Grubb's actions. They'll spend days, weeks, months,
year studying it. Connor Grubb had about a fraction of
a second to make a decision. And that's just the
reality of being a police officer.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Mark Collins, Brian Steele, thank you both so much for
your time today. I think you answered so many questions
in this very important conversation. You guys go enjoy the
rest of your Sunday, enjoy that sunshine out there.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Happy Thanksgiving Mindy to everybody in your family place, you
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Exact same thing, right back back at you, all right,
We'll be right back everybody you're listening to Raw Always
protected by the Undefeated Tattletale
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