September 20, 2025 • 40 mins
In this heartfelt episode of Home in Progress, sponsored by RepcoLite Paints and Benjamin Moore, Dan shares a personal story about his father’s recent minor stroke, the challenges of the week, and the flood of childhood memories it brought back. He reflects on the importance of cherishing family moments and encourages listeners to preserve their own stories and memories.From there, the episode shifts into practical home improvement advice—covering everything from bathroom fan adequacy to fixing peeling paint in bathrooms and the most effective stump removal methods. Dan also takes time to clarify earlier stump removal tips and answer listener questions, making this episode both moving and highly informative.Episode Guide00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message00:07 A Tough Week: Dad’s Health Scare02:26 Memories of Dad: From Eye Patches to Invisible Friends08:25 Cherishing Memories and Making Changes12:28 Home Improvement Tips: Paint Failures and Bathroom Fans13:25 Clarifying Stump Removal Techniques18:57 Listener Questions: Peeling Paint in the Bathroom21:32 Understanding the Importance of a Bathroom Fan21:54 Calculating the Right Size for Your Bathroom Fan24:09 Ensuring Proper Fan Operation26:06 The Role of Prep Work in Preventing Peeling Paint29:43 Steps to Fix Existing Peeling Paint32:34 Choosing the Best Paint for Bathrooms33:29 Testing Your Existing Bathroom Fan37:32 Troubleshooting Fan Performance Issues39:16 Conclusion and Final Tips
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, thanks for tuning in. You're listening to Home
in Progress, sponsored by repcoll Life Beans and Benjamin Moore.
And before I jump into the show this week, I
want to talk about my week last week because it
was a tough week and I, you know, I guess
at the end of the day, it really really got
(00:21):
me thinking and that's what I want to kind of
work through right now. Anyway, here's the scoop last week.
Saturday afternoonish, you know, four point thirty something like that.
I get a text from my mom and Mom announces
in the text that she's at the emergency room with
my dad. He was dealing with double vision and a
few other things and Mom was concerned, so she brought him,
(00:45):
you know, straight there to the emergency room. While long
story short, he ended up getting transferred via ambulance to
Grand Rapids, where they eventually decided over the course of
a number of days that Dad had suffered from a
minor stroke that had affected his vision. Now at this point,
the prognosis looks pretty good, you know, the vision thing.
(01:05):
They keep talking about that that's going to just take
time to heal. If it heals, they think it's probably
gonna heal, but if it doesn't, in order to deal
with that double vision, he's gonna have to wear an
eye patch and that'll take care of things. And I
know that sounds bad right to most of you. You know,
you've got to wear an eye patch, you know, for
an extended period of time. None of us are going
(01:26):
to like that, and you may feel some pity, but
don't at least so far. You know, at this point,
Dad is really pretty thrilled, you know, with his eye patch.
It's kind of nice because you know he's got it,
not because he's literally missing an eye. You know, that
was the original purpose of eye patches, at least, you know,
it's my understanding of why pirates made them popular. But
(01:49):
Dad's not missing an eye, so that means he can
swap the eye patch back and forth, which he does.
You know, he lets it ride normally strapped to the
center of his forehead if he doesn't need it, because
he can read and do all of that stuff without
seeing double But if he's got to, you know, get
up and move around or something like that, then he
just slaps it down on whichever i he wants to
(02:10):
cover for that particular time period, and he's off and running,
you know, talking like a pirate and doing stuff like that.
So at this point, he's enjoying his eye patch. You know,
I don't know how long that's gonna last. But don't
feel too much pity for him because of the eye patch,
at least not yet. Anyway, at the end of the day,
you know, when we take everything into account, all the
things that we've kind of walked through as a family
(02:33):
for the past week or so, it seems like Dad's
weathered the storm really well and he's gonna be with
us for a long time yet. But you know, I
know a lot of you have been through this too.
You know, you've probably been through far worse things. You know,
many people have. But seeing Dad in the hospital room, tired, weak,
you know, struggling to breathe at times, you know, seeing
(02:55):
all of that take place was so tough, you know,
crazy tough. And like I said, I'm not saying anything new,
you know, to anybody who's been there, you know, and
that's really not my point. I'm not trying to say
anything new. I guess I'm just talking about my experience. Right.
It's cathartic, you know, So this is this is therapy
(03:17):
for me, But I just want to talk it through
because it was so jolting to see this guy who's
always tough, right, that's always tough, faking it all the time.
We knew some of that, but he always had this crunchy,
crusty exterior that was super tough, you know, and he
was always really silly, you know, super tough, I should clarify,
(03:38):
super tough. When it came to you know, injuries or
anything like that, he would just you know, power through everything.
But he was also crazy silly, like literally crazy, so stubborn,
you know. Seeing that guy just laying there like that
in the hospital was really really jolting. And as I'm
standing there, you know, sitting there waiting there, my sisters
(04:00):
are there, and as we're all there, the memories just
come flooding back, and it was really unreal. You know.
I thought I had a good handle on the memories
of my childhood. I feel like I've done a good
job keeping those front and center in my mind, you know,
all the fun that I had growing up. But when
that moment hit this past week and I'm standing in
(04:22):
that hospital room, I was completely amazed at the thoughts
that came pouring back into my mind, you know, things
that I hadn't thought about in years, but things that
I could literally hear in my head. I could hear
these things again, and I could smell, you know, certain things,
and you know, it was very a very visceral experience.
(04:42):
The memories were that vivid. You know, Dad flying kites
with us every single March, for example. You know, the
snow's not even completely melted yet, the wind was always
super chilly, but the sun was out, and he'd get
us out there in the yard every March, you know,
and we'd be out there, you know, bundled up, staring
at this kite in the air for hours, you know,
(05:05):
running around in the yard staring at the kite, having
a blast. I had no idea what the main draw was,
looking back, you know, what made me stay out there
so long as a little kid. But it was a
rite of spring, you know, every single year when Dad
came home with his new kite, which he did every March,
we knew spring was coming, and we knew we had
(05:26):
big time fun coming up on the coming Saturday because
we're gonna be out in the yard with that kite.
Another memory, Dad talking to his invisible friends at the
grocery store or the restaurant or church or wherever. And yeah,
you heard that right. The man had invisible friends. You know,
they were invisible. They were friends Bob and Henry. You know,
(05:49):
that's what he called them. We don't know where the
names came from or what sparked this. And honestly, I'm
talking about this in the past tense. It's still ongoing.
He still has invisible friends. Kids. We thought it was hilarious.
The grandkids think it's hilarious. And of course that's the point.
He doesn't have serious problems that he really thinks these
people are there. I don't think so anyway. I think
(06:12):
he knows that they're fake. But he has a lot
of fun. He's never embarrassed. He never had this sense
of embarrassment at all. You know me, I'm constantly embarrassed.
I'm very self conscious wherever I go anywhere. Dad he
could go anywhere, He could do anything, and if people
thought he was crazy, that was just you know, that
was icing on the cake. That was gravy. He loved that.
(06:34):
So he'd go places and he'd hold open doors for
invisible people to walk through. You know, I remember as
a kid watching people with shocked faces as Dad is
holding a door open and kind of urging some small,
invisible person to move through the door and get to
the car. He'd have full conversations with him, and we
would laugh and laugh and laugh. He'd save seats for
(06:56):
them at restaurants or at church. It was honestly nuts,
but as a kid, it was hilarious. Even now, it's funny,
you know, it's funny watching the people of his condos
see him talk to invisible people. Or now, now some
of these people, these invisible friends, Bob and Henry, they
live in stuffed animals that Dad has collected. It's too
(07:16):
weird to explain, but just understand he's got little stuffed
things that he carries around with him that he talks
to like they're real people. And the kids love it,
grandkids love it. It's weird. You know, it's weird. I'm
giving you that it's weird, but it's Dad, and those
memories came flooding back. Another thing that I would think
about is the hours and hours and hours that he
(07:36):
spent coaching my little league teams, playing baseball or football
in the yard with me, even boxing. You know, I
remember one Christmas, I opened up a pair of boxing gloves,
and surprise, surprise, Dad got a pair as well. And
from that point on we'd box. He'd be on his
knees in the yard or in the living room and
we'd be, you know, going back and forth sparring, and
Mom would be yelling, you know, stop that you're gonna
(07:58):
get hurt. You know, things like that all the time.
But it was so much fun. I can't go through
every single memory that I've ever had. I can't even
spend you know, much more time going through just these.
You know, I've got to shut up and move on.
What do these matter to you anyway? These memories? You know,
you've got your own memories. These silly ones are mine
(08:19):
and their gold to me. But for you, who knows,
you know, maybe they're just ridiculous. But here's the thing.
You've got your memories, yeah, you know, your memories with
the people that you love. And if you haven't already
done so, take the time to write them down, you know,
or tell them to your kids, or do both if
you've got a chance. You know, if you've still got
this opportunity, talk them over with your mom and dad.
(08:42):
You know, your grandpa and your grandma, the people who
made these memories with you. And you know, maybe you're
doing that already, maybe you do that on a regular basis,
then you are winning. You know, that is how you
should be doing things. I have not done enough of this.
I've done a lot, but when I'm standing there in
that hospital room, I realize I haven't done enough. And
that's something that we all know, right, We instinctively know that,
(09:05):
you know, we know that we're supposed to make the
most of the time that we've got. You know, there's
no time like the present. Don't put it off. You know,
all of those things, all those little cliches, and yet
we do, right, we put it off. We all put
it off. You know. On the show, we talk about
home projects all the time, and I'm always encouraging you
to get them tackled, you know, to cross them off
your list. Get that room painted. You know, don't wait
(09:28):
another weekend. You're gonna feel so much better when you're done.
You know, when the walls are wall papered beautifully or
painted beautifully the living room, it's that perfect color. You're
gonna feel great when that's done. Right, I talk about
that all the time. And that's good stuff, you know,
it is. It's good stuff. Getting those projects done. It
is gonna make you, you know, feel better about your home.
You're gonna feel good about getting things crossed off your list.
(09:50):
That's all really good stuff. But man, are those things
so ridiculously paltry in comparison to spending time with the
people who shaped you, you, you know, as a human being
who raised you, who filled your life with great memories.
You know, we have seen a ton of junk over
the last few weeks. And one thing that we all
know for sure, you never know what you're gonna get.
(10:13):
You know, you never know how much time you're gonna have.
And when you're standing in a hospital room unexpectedly on
a Saturday afternoon, you realize now, I guess I can't.
I can't speak for you. When I was standing in
that hospital room unexpectedly on a Saturday afternoon, I realized
what was important and what wasn't important. I realized how
much time I've spent chasing things that don't matter, and
(10:36):
how little time, when it's really all boiled down, how
little time I poured into the things that really, really
really matter. You know, Dad and Mom live two minutes
from my house, you know, five minutes, ten minutes if
I walk there, but I don't see them nearly enough.
It's time for some changes, you know. I've realized that,
and I'm hoping I can come through on this because
(10:57):
it's easy to make these bold you knows, and then
life is going to catch up. But I want to
remember what I was feeling in that hospital room when
things were a little dicey and we didn't know what
we were gonna have. You know, now we're looking at it,
and now we've got more time and plenty of time
and all of that. But there was a moment, you know,
at least a moment where I didn't know what we
(11:19):
had left, and I realized how much I just left
on the table. And that was so dumb to not
have spent more time, you know, with mom and Dad.
So buckle up, Mom and Dad. I'm coming over a
lot more. That's the plan. You know. Maybe Dad and
I can box, I don't know, just sit around wearing
eye patches. We could talk like pirates, we can talk
(11:40):
to invisible people. I have no idea what you guys
are gonna want to do. What's gonna be fun? Maybe
we can just have coffee and laugh about all the
things that we did growing up, you know, all the
beauty that you gave us as kids growing up. Who
knows what we're gonna do, but we're gonna do a
lot more of it, all right. I'm sorry to go
(12:01):
on and on about that. I hope some of that
matters to some of you out there, but I needed
to get it off my chest. I needed to think
it through out loud, and over all the years that
I've done this radio stuff, one of my favorite things
has been to live out in the open in front
of everybody. And I feel like if I learned something,
I'm sure somebody out there is going to be grabbing
(12:23):
some of what I'm saying and seeing some value in it.
So hopefully you found some value in that. Let's take
a break right now, and when we come back. I've
got a lot of different things we're going to hit.
At the end of the show, We'll be covering a
listener question about a paint failure, a monumental paint failure
in a bathroom. We're going to talk about what went wrong,
how to fix it, and more importantly, how to avoid
(12:43):
it in the first place. We'll do that. We'll also
dig into bathroom fans, you know, finding the right one
for your space if you're looking for a new one,
and how to know if the one that you currently
have is doing the job that it needs to do.
So we'll get to all of that, and coming up
in just a little bit, we're going to be basically
making some clarifications on something that I talked about last
week but was a little bit vague about. We're going
(13:04):
to get to that right after this Homean Progress is
brought to you by repcoll Like Paints and Benjamin Moore.
You know, people often think of paint as just another
line item on the project's supply list. But here's the thing.
Everything you do, every hour of prep, every stroke of
the brush, all comes down to the quality of the paint.
The paint is the project. Make sure it's the best.
(13:24):
All right. Right now, I want to take a few
minutes and clean up some untidiness from last week. Basically,
I want to make some clarifications that I left a
little vague on last episode, and y'all called me out
on a couple of them, and you were right to do. So. Okay,
last week we spent some time talking about stump removal.
(13:47):
You know in your yard stump removal, you know how
to speed up the prop Why do I need to
make that clarification. I don't know why my brain felt
the need to make a clarification that I'm talking about
removing stumps from your yard anyway, stump removal from your yard.
We talked about speeding up the process with chemical removers
and even epsom salts, and that sparked some follow up questions.
(14:11):
So today I wanted to circle back and make a
little more of a clarified, clear presentation on what I
was getting at all. Right, first off, let's look at
the products that I talked about to chemically remove the stump.
Most chemical stump removers they're made with potassium nitrate, and
that's pretty effective. It encourages microbial and fungal activity that
helps break the wood down faster. EPSOM salts, on the
(14:34):
other hand, fall into a little bit of a gray
area here. You know, technically their magnesium sulfate, which plants
actually need in small amounts, but when you use them
in larger doses, they kind of create the salty environment
that can dehydrate and weaken a stump. So yeah, they
can help, you know, they can help the process, but
they really aren't going to work as quickly or as
(14:55):
reliably as potassium nitrate, you know, a chemical stump remover. Basically,
you should think of EPSOM salts as more of a
slow assist rather than a magic bullet. So while the
EPSOM salt route isn't technically wrong, it's really not the
best way to go. They're going to be slow, and
they really should be a secondary or you know, a tertiary,
(15:17):
a third option. They're going to be best for small
stumps or for preventing regrowth, not full decomposition. So I
wanted to clarify that I didn't make that clear last
week when I was talking. All right, now, let's deal
with another question that came up that I like even better,
because I really wish I had gotten into this last week.
If here's the question, if I use stump removers, you know,
(15:39):
a chemical stump remover, am I ever going to be
able to grow grass in that area ever? Again? You know?
If I use a chemical stump remover or EPSOM salts,
am I just salting the earth And it's never going
to ever you know, allow grass to grow there ever again? Well,
the short answer is absolutely yes, you can grow grass
there again. In fact, both of these chemicals actually break
(15:59):
down and nutrients that the grass loves. You know, potassium
nitrate that becomes potassium and nitrogen, two key ingredients in
most fertilizers. EP some salts that breaks down into magnesium
and sulfur, which are also plant nutrients. So you're not
poisoning the soil, you're just changing its chemistry, and you
are adding more of these components, these nutrients than you'd
(16:20):
probably want in that space. So if you've done that,
here's how to get grass growing again. You know, if
you've used either of these chemicals. First off, once the
stump is softened and rotted down, shovel out as much
of that decayed wood and sawdust as you can. Right,
we talked about that last week. Get it out of there.
If you leave it, it's going to rob the nitrogen
from the soil and your grass is going to come
(16:41):
in yellow and kind of weak. So clear it out
and then backfill with fresh top soil or a compost mix. Now,
after you've done that, be sure to give the area
a really good flush with water a few times over
the course of a week. And that's going to help
wash away salts and disperse some of the other chemicals
that are there in higher concentrations than you'd really like.
When it comes time to get the grass growing, so
(17:02):
flush it really well. And another step here, you know,
once you've done this flushing for a good week, is
to test the soil. You know, you can bring it
away to different garden centers who will test it for you,
or you can grab an inexpensive you know, DIY kit
from a garden center or buy one online and that'll
give you a quick read on the pH levels and
sometimes the nutrients depends on which kit you get. For grass,
(17:24):
you're usually aiming for a pH between six and seven.
If it's off, the test kit's going to tell you
how to adjust it, and that way you're not just guessing,
you know, before you recede everything. So do all of that,
and when you're ready to plant, loosen up the soil
a few inches deep, mix in a little compost and
spread the grass seed in. I'd recommend using a starter fertilizer.
That's probably a really good way to go. It's going
(17:45):
to give the new grass an early boost, so do that.
Rake it in, cover it lightly with straw or peat,
moss or whatever, maybe even more top soil a little
bit of that and keep it watered, you know, kind
of like a wrung out sponge, not swampy, but just
like a wrung out sponge, and do that until the
grass pops. Be patient. Depending on the season, you're usually
(18:06):
going to see a full patch of grass within two
to three months. And if the ground settles or things
start to look thin, just add more soil and overseed. Now,
there is one other option that I heard about, an
organic approach that's worth mentioning to get rid of a stump,
and that's to mound dirt right over the stump, you know,
mound dirt over that thing, plant groundcover, and then let
(18:26):
nature rot the stump out on its own. Now, that
works too, but it's going to take a lot longer,
you know, generally two to five years to make that happen,
and you'll have to top off that soil as things
break down, and you're going to have that bump, you know,
that little hump on the yard. It's less effort upfront,
but more patience is required, and you've got to tolerate
that look for a while. So there you go, removing
(18:49):
a stump. I think I covered all the things that
I didn't say as clearly as I wish I had
last week. I think I'm good. I'm going to let
that one go and move on, all right. Peeling paint
in the bathroom? What's going on? How do you fix it?
And how do you avoid it in the first place.
We'll get to all of that right after. This home
in progress is brought to you by Repcolite Paints and
Benjamin Moore. Think about it. You spend hours prepping, sanding, taping,
(19:12):
and then finally painting. Don't throw all that work away
with an inferior product. The paint isn't just another supply.
The paint is the project. Make sure it's the best,
all right. I want to jump into another paint question
from a listener, and this one's a good one. Not
that the other ones weren't, but this one's This one's
really good. But before I get to it, if you
have a paint question, you know, a paint question, a
(19:34):
design question, a question about color or whatever, email it
to me at radio at repco Light dot com. I'll
get you your answer in the email, and if I
use your question on the show, like I'm doing right here.
I'll send you a gift certificate for a free gallon
of Repcolite or Benjamin Moore paint, you know, free paint
just for asking your question. I won't use your name
(19:54):
on the radio, I won't signal you out in any way.
I won't put your picture up on so media. I'll
just go over your situation and use it to help
other people. You know, we're using it to help other
people who are in the same boat. So you can
feel good about that, right, and you're gonna get a
free gallon of paint for your next project. So email
your questions to radio at repco Light dot com. All right,
(20:17):
here's the question for today. A listener wrote in with
the following situation quote. I painted my bathroom about four
months ago and I used Benjamin Moore paint in the
satin finish. Now I'm dealing with a fair amount of
paint that's peeling from the ceiling in the walls. What's
going on and how do I fix it? So after
that initial email, we went back and forth for a
little bit so I could gather a little more information.
(20:40):
And after doing that, here are some additional facts to
help make the situation clearer. First off, the previous paint
that the listener painted over was a finish on the
shinier side of things, a satin, maybe even a semi gloss,
so keep that in the back of your mind. The
customer has a bathroom fan installed, but it's a little
on the older side, so keep that in mind. And
then finally the customer wipe the walls down with a
(21:02):
damp rag before painting to remove cobwebs and the like.
But that was about it for the prep work. All right,
that's the background, and it's honestly a pretty common situation
and setup. And here's what's likely going on in this
particular situation. When you're talking about paint peeling. The first thing,
you know, especially in a bathroom, the first thing that
you're probably going to run into if you google around,
(21:23):
is the suggestion that there was a moisture problem, you know,
and that's definitely a possibility in this case. I think
it's part of the problem, but it's definitely not the
whole thing. You know, bathrooms are incredibly high moisture situations,
and having a bathroom fan, a bathroom fan that's the
correct size for your space, and that's working well is critical.
You know, it's going to move moisture out after showers,
(21:45):
and it's going to go a long ways towards preventing
moisture issues like peeling and the growth of mold and
mildew down the road. So the bathroom fan, that's really important.
Now to make sure that you've got the right sized
bathroom fan. There's a little math you can do, and
I'll put this in the show notes if you need
to revisit it a little bit later. But all you
need to do is take the length times the width
(22:05):
times the height of your bathroom and multiply by point
one three. Okay, length times width times height, and then
multiply that total by zero point one three. So zero
point one three. What in the world is up with
that number? It seems really random, right, Well, it's not
as random as it seems. It's a conversion factor that
(22:27):
turns the room's cubic feet into the amount of airflow
that you're gonna need. So basically, when you do that
length times width times height and then take that total
and multiply it by zero point one three, you're really
coming up with the answer to how many cubic feet
per minute cfms does it take to replace the air
in this bathroom about eight times each hour? All right,
that's what you're getting with that number. I could explain
(22:49):
the math that gets you to the zero point one three,
but does anybody at this point really want to know. No.
The answer to that is no, nobody wants to know
the math that gets you there. Just multiply the length
times the width times the height of your bathroom. Get
that total, and multiply that by zero point one three,
and you're going to know the minimum cfm cubic feet
(23:11):
per minute size fan that you need for your bathroom.
All right, So make sure if you're getting a new
fan that you pick out the right sized fan. And
there is another quicker way, you know, that's for a
bigger bathroom or a complicated bathroom. If you've got a
small bathroom that's really straightforward, eight foot ceilings and it's
under one hundred square feet, basically, just figure whatever the
(23:33):
square footage is of that bathroom space, get a fan
that will move that much air. So if you've got
a bathroom that's eighty square foot, you're going to need
an eighty cfm fan. That's the simple method. If it's
one hundred square feet or less, and the ceilings are
eight foot if they're higher than that, or the bathrooms
a little bigger than that, or it's more complicated. Do
the formula that I gave you, the length times width
(23:55):
times height times zero point one three, and I'll put
all of that in the show notes, so you can
go there and just revel in the glory of that
math formula. All right, check it out. Make sure if
you're buying a new fan, you get the right right
size fan. Now, in the next segment, we're going to
talk briefly about how to do all of that to
figure out if you've got the right size fan. If
(24:16):
you've got one already in your bathroom, you know that's trickier.
You've got a fan installed. You're not going to pick
out a new one where everything is clearly labeled. You've
got one up there, you have no idea who put
it there. Like mine at my bathroom, I have no
idea when it was installed. You know how many you know,
cubic feet per minute of air it's moving on a
regular basis. I don't even know if it's working very well.
(24:38):
All right, if that's your situation, next segment we'll talk
about how you figure out if that fan is suitable
for your space. All right, we'll do that in a minute.
Get the fan figured out, right, that's important. It's also
essential that you run the fan the right amount of time. Right.
Having the fan is one thing, running it is another.
And that sounds really stupid by but you know, if
(25:00):
you've got kids, you know, you know it doesn't always
get run. So make sure you're running it. But also
make sure that you're running it the right amount of time.
And the rule of thumb on this is to run
it for about fifteen to twenty minutes after you turn
off the shower. You know, the tendency is to want
to turn it off right away, right, we want to
conserve energy and all of that. But the energy you're conserving,
the savings that you're getting, you're definitely losing that by
(25:24):
just leaving that moisture in the room. That the damage
that that could do to your walls or whatever that
could cause. It's worse to have that moisture than to
pay that little bit of extra to run the fan
a little bit longer. So run it fifteen to twenty
minutes after the shower, and that should evacuate most of
the moisture from the room. It's also good practice, of
course to open the bathroom door as soon as possible
(25:44):
after showering. That's going to help get that moisture out
as well. All right, that's one piece of this peeling
paint puzzle, and skipping those steps is definitely going to
lead to issues down the road, you know, surfactant leaching, mildew, mold,
things like that. And even so, get the right bathroom
fan run at the right amount of time, all of
(26:04):
that that'll help in this instance. While that's part of
the problem, I'm almost certain that the bigger cause, the
bigger cause for all of this peeling is really prep work,
or the lack of prep work is probably the better
way to say it. You know, bathroom walls have seen things.
I mean, think about it, they've seen things, right, you know,
think about your bathroom walls for just a minute, you know,
(26:27):
imagine what they've encountered in their you know time with
you you know, soaps, come, hair spray, residues from all
kinds of different cleaners, dirt, grime, you know, the bathroom
walls they see pretty much everything and if that isn't
cleaned off well. All of those surface contaminants end up
really kind of forming a barrier that prevents your new
(26:47):
paint from bonding to that previous coating. So you always
need to clean those walls, and you need to clean
them well, you know, not just wipe them down with
a damp rag, which is what the person who emailed
me really just did. All they did was wipe it
down with a damp rag. That's better than nothing, but
it's not good enough for this situation. So use a
good degreaser like TSP tri sodium phosphate or a TSP
(27:11):
substitute that will work as well. You could use crudcutter,
you could use spray nine, even down dish soap. All
of those will work well as cleaners. So wash the
walls down well. And in a bathroom situation, personally, I'd
lean towards using a Scotch Brit pad on the walls,
you know, one of those little green scrubby pads that
you use for dishes. Get a Scotch Brit pad we
(27:31):
sell them at Repcholite, and use that to really scrub
and cut through the residue on the walls. You know,
once you've done all of that rinse everything with clean water,
so you know you're not leaving any of the cleaner behind.
All right, once that's done, there's another step that you
need to consider. If you remember back to the background
info that I threw out there, the listener said, the
previous paint, you know, the coating that they were painting over.
(27:54):
They said that paint was relatively shiny. They thought it
was maybe a satin sheen, maybe even a semigloss, And
that's pretty common in a bathroom. People will generally use
a shinier paint on that surface because of moisture. It
resists moisture better than a flat finish wood or a
mat although I do have a product I'm going to
recommend at the end of this segment that's a matte
(28:16):
finish that will resist moisture better than anything out there,
so we'll get to that. But typically a flat or
a mat is going to absorb moisture more so than
a satin sheen or a semi gloss. And so a
lot of bathrooms have satin sheens and semi glosses on them,
which makes that surface pretty shiny. And the problem with
that is that shiny paint is a barrier to adhesion.
You know, if you're painting over a shinier finish, if
(28:37):
that's what's on the walls, you don't just wipe them clean.
You clean them like we talked about, But then you
need discuff sand them to dull them down so that
your new paint has something to grip into. And I'd
recommend going over the walls with a one eighty to
two twenty grit sandpaper and do a good scuff sanding
and do that stuff standing. I just hinted at it,
but you do it after you cleaned. I don't want
(29:00):
to go before you've cleaned it and end up grinding
that contamination deeper into the paint. So wash it first
with your degreaser, you know, rinse it clean, let it dry,
then do your scuff sanding, and then when you're done sanding,
done doing that stuff standing, wipe the walls with a
damp rag. You know, no cleaner this time, just a
damp rag. And all you're trying to do at that
point is remove that sanding dust. Okay, once that's done
(29:23):
and the wall's dry, you can repaint. Typically on a
previously painted surface that's sound and scuffed. You don't need
a separate primer. You know, you just go with two
good coats of your finished paint and you should be good. Now,
if you've got bare dry wall spots or something like that,
or patches, you do want to spot prime those areas first.
All right, that's what you do to avoid peeling. But
(29:44):
what if you've already got peeling. You know, that's the
situation we're dealing with here. If that's the case, then what, well,
it's not pretty. You know, I really wish there was
a great easy answer to this, but there isn't. It's
not pretty if you're in this situation. Really, what you
need to do is careful scrape. Carefully scrape so you
don't damage the wallboard, but carefully scrape all the loose
(30:04):
paint from the walls and the ceiling. You know, it's
not a fun project. There will be, though, some big
winds after a while, and it will get to be
like a little bit fun as you're going. You know,
you'll be in there going for maybe an hour or
two scraping off little pieces. That's usually how it works,
and then all of a sudden you're gonna start working
(30:25):
loose you know, a piece that's not breaking up like
the other ones did. It's kind of big, and you're
gonna get all excited and you're gonna be working at it,
trying to get this big piece off, and soon it's
gonna be as big as like a like a you know,
a tea saucer or something like that. And then then
you get it to the size where it's a dinner
plate before it finally breaks off. And it's happened to me.
(30:45):
And let me tell you when that happens, I snatch
it up off the floor. I'm holding it up next
to me like it's a fish that I just caught,
and it's like, I want my picture taken with it.
I'm showing it off to everybody in the room. Look
what I just got off the wall. And then everybody
is trying for a big your piece, right, So that
moment happens, you know, And as stupid as it sounds,
you know, and you may not believe me, but make
(31:06):
a metal note, it's going to happen. You know, if
you're in this situation, it will happen, and just be
glad that it does, because it's little things like this
that keep you sane during this whole scraping process. So
scrape off all the loose paint that you can get,
and don't expect to get everything off. You know, most
likely you're going to remove large sections of the paint,
(31:27):
but then you're going to find other sections where the
paint is bonded really well. Now, the main thing here
is to make sure that whatever paint you leave on
the surface, make sure it's really stuck down well. That's critical.
If you don't do that and don't make sure that
it's stuck down well before you paint over it, there's
a really good chance that when you roll your new
paint over it, even just the surface tension of that
(31:48):
new paint drying can start to pull that other paint loose.
And that is incredibly disheartening. I've been there. You don't
want to be there. So take the time to make
sure that whatever paint you leave on the wall or
the ceiling, make sure it's really stuck down well. Now,
once you've removed everything that's loose, wash the walls down
with a degreaser, you know, like I mentioned earlier, TSP
crudcutter dawn, and then give the walls a good rinse. Then,
(32:11):
if the surfaces are shiny, you still need to do
that scuff sanding, and while you're sanding, spend extra time
feathering the edges where the peeled paint meets the paint
that didn't come off, you know, smooth those transitions so
they won't telegraph through your finish. Now, once you've done
all of that, wipe the walls down with a damp
rag and let them dry. And when they're dry, go
ahead and top coat with your new finish paint. And
(32:33):
one last thing. If you're painting in a bathroom, there's
one single product that you should be thinking about using.
Or a bath and spa from Benjamin Moore. Now, I
talked about a matte finish earlier. That's like a miracle product.
It resists moisture better than pretty much any other product
out there. It's this one, or a bath and spat
from Benjamin Moore. Like I said, it comes in a
matte finish, so you get a beautiful, beautiful look. But
(32:54):
like I said, it resists moisture, you know, better than
anything else out there. It's as close to a silver
bullet as you're going to find for a bathroom. You know,
there's no reason to do all that prep and then
use a lesser paint, do the work, and then finish
with the best thing that you can buy, and that's
aura a bathroom spa. All right. That's what's going on
with some peeling paint in a bathroom and how to
fix it. Remember, if you've got a paint or design
(33:16):
question and you'd like an answer and a free gallon
of Benjamin More or Repcolite paint, just email your question
to radio at Repcollite dot com and if I use
it on the air, I'll send you a gift certificate
for a free gallon of paint. All right. I mentioned
in this segment that you need to have the right
sized bathroom fan. That's easy when you're buying a new one,
But how do you find out if the fan that
you have is adequate. Well, there are a few simple
(33:39):
things that you can do to figure that out, and
we'll get to those right after this. You're listening to
Home in Progress, where the projects are real, the mistakes,
they're educational, sometimes painful, mostly educational, And the only thing
more stubborn than that old wallpaper on your bathroom wall
is your determination to get it fixed. Sponsored by Repcolite
(34:01):
Paints and Benjamin Moore Paint with a purpose, people who care,
and everything you need to get the job done right,
all right. Last segment, I answered a listener question about
fixing appealing paint problem in a bathroom, and in that
segment I mentioned how important it is to have a
bathroom fan that's suitable for the size of your room.
And in all my brilliance, all my sheer and utter brilliance,
(34:23):
I gave you the formula so you can crank out
that math and figure it out. In case you've forgotten,
here's a quick reminder. Take the length times the width
times the height of the room, and then multiply that
total by a point one three. That's going to give
you the minimum cfm, the minimum cubic feet per minute
of air that your fan should be able to move. Now,
if you're buying a brand new fan, that's pretty easy,
(34:45):
just go out and pick one that's rated for that number.
But what if you've already got a fan in place,
how do you know if it's adequate, if it's functioning well,
you know for your space. Well, there are a couple
of really you know, super simple tests that you can
perform that will help you get a handle on what's
going on and how well your fan is doing. First off,
let's figure out if it's the right size for your space.
(35:07):
And a simple way to do this is to do
this just when you take a hot shower when the
fan's running. How long does it take for the room
in the mirror to clear once you turn the water off.
Now it shouldn't take terribly long, you know, keep the
door closed for this particular test, but run the shower,
run it hot for the normal amount of time, and
then once you shut it off, see once how long
(35:29):
it takes for everything to clear up. If you're still
in a bit of a fog fifteen maybe twenty minutes later,
then the fan isn't performing adequately. It's either too small
for the space or it's not working well. Not to
figure out which of these two is going on. There's
another test you can run, and it's not terribly scientific,
but it will work. It's the tissue paper test. You know.
Just hold a square toilet paper up to the grill
(35:51):
with the fan running. If it's drawn firmly against the cover,
then the fans moving air adequately. If it doesn't stand
place and falls to the ground, then the fans not
performing adequately. You know, it's probably tired, it needs to
be replaced, or there's a duct work problem. We'll get
to that in a minute. If it is performing adequately,
if it does keep that toilet paper, that tissue paper
stuck to the grill, but it didn't clear the room
(36:14):
out in about fifteen minutes or so, then it's probably
the wrong size fan for the bathroom. Or once again,
it could be a duct work problem. All right, now,
to figure this out, I know this is complicated, but
you can go back and check the show notes. You
can go back and listen to this again, so you
can work through the troubleshooting. But to figure this out,
to figure out whether it's the fan is too small
(36:34):
or whether it's a duct work problem, you got to
start by figuring out, you know what size fan you
actually have in the space, and to do that, turn
the power off to the fan and then gently pull
the grill down an inch or two, reach behind it
at that point, and then squeeze these two little spring
clips that you'll find on either side of it, and
squeeze those together and you should be able to remove
the cover once it's off. Look for a data label.
(36:57):
You know on most fans it's going to be right
on the motor play or the power unit mounting plate,
something like that. Sometimes it's on you know, the inside
perimeter of the housing. So look there and once in
a while you'll find it stamped into the metal. Now,
if you've got attic access, you may even see a
label on top of the housing. Now, that sticker is
usually going to show you the model number and the
CFM rating. If all you can find is a model number,
(37:19):
just jot it down and then look up the specs later.
The internet is there and it will help you. It'll
help you get the CFM rating from the manufacturer's page. Now,
once you've got that figured out, you just need to
compare it to the size fan you need. You know,
if the numbers look okay and the fan is relatively
new and it's not just tiring out, there's one more
thing to check, and that's the duct work. Now it
(37:41):
may be surprising, but the duct work can actually make
or break a fan's performance. Every bend in the ductwork
steals power from your fan. To keep it simple for
the radio, think of each ninety degree elbow is adding
about five extra feet that the fan has to push through.
So a fifteen foot run with two ninety degree bends
is basically like twenty five feet or so for your fan. Now,
(38:02):
how much your fan can handle depends on both its
CFM rating and your duct size. With typical residential fans,
you know, say eighty to one hundred and ten cfm.
Once you get beyond the twenty five to thirty feet
of length on a four inch duct, you're going to
start seeing noticeable performance drops. For example, your fan might
be rated for let's say one hundred cfm, but you
could end up with only seventy or eighty cfm actually
(38:25):
moving through the system, you know, depending on the length
of the duct, and you know, let's say it's a
four inch duct, if you were running with a six
inch duct for that exact same length, the performance is
going to increase. And maybe that's a little bit surprising,
but it's really like the difference between drinking through you know,
a coffee stirr versus a regular straw. Right, the wider
opening lets things flow easier. A six inch duct is
(38:47):
going to let air move slower and with less effort
than cramming it through a four inch duct. So if
you've got a long run or several bends, if possible
step up to six inch duct work. Even if your
fan has a four inch outlet, you know, transitioning immediately
to six inch for the rest of the run still helps.
All right, it's a ton of info, I know that,
but it's all something to look into if your bathroom
(39:08):
fan isn't performing. And if you missed any of it,
remember you can catch this episode in all our past
episodes at repcol light dot com. Check it out. All right,
that's gonna do it. Remember to check out our blog
for more info on many of the topics that we
cover in the show, so you can get a lot
more stuff there. And don't forget if you'd like a
chance for a free gallon of Benjamin Moore a Repcolite paint,
(39:30):
I mean a free gallon you pick what you want,
you know, a free gallon of paint. If you'd like
a chance at that, all you need to do is
send me a paint or design question. Email it to
radio at repcol light dot com, and if I use
it on the air, I'll send you a gift certificate
for a free gallon of your choice, any Benjamin Moore
or Repcolite product. Remember, you can subscribe to the podcast
(39:52):
and you absolutely should. You'll be way happier when you do. So.
Subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and
if you do have time, and if you do enjoy
the show, leave us a review. Spread the word. It
really helps us take the show to new people, helps
new people find it. I'd really appreciate it if you'd
leave a review and subscribe to the show. All right,
(40:12):
have a great week everybody, and I'll see you next time.
I'm Dan Hansen. Thanks for listening.
Hey, everybody, thanks for tuning in. You're listening to Home
in Progress, sponsored by repcoll Life Beans and Benjamin Moore.
And before I jump into the show this week, I
want to talk about my week last week because it
was a tough week and I, you know, I guess
at the end of the day, it really really got
(00:21):
me thinking and that's what I want to kind of
work through right now. Anyway, here's the scoop last week.
Saturday afternoonish, you know, four point thirty something like that.
I get a text from my mom and Mom announces
in the text that she's at the emergency room with
my dad. He was dealing with double vision and a
few other things and Mom was concerned, so she brought him,
(00:45):
you know, straight there to the emergency room. While long
story short, he ended up getting transferred via ambulance to
Grand Rapids, where they eventually decided over the course of
a number of days that Dad had suffered from a
minor stroke that had affected his vision. Now at this point,
the prognosis looks pretty good, you know, the vision thing.
(01:05):
They keep talking about that that's going to just take
time to heal. If it heals, they think it's probably
gonna heal, but if it doesn't, in order to deal
with that double vision, he's gonna have to wear an
eye patch and that'll take care of things. And I
know that sounds bad right to most of you. You know,
you've got to wear an eye patch, you know, for
an extended period of time. None of us are going
(01:26):
to like that, and you may feel some pity, but
don't at least so far. You know, at this point,
Dad is really pretty thrilled, you know, with his eye patch.
It's kind of nice because you know he's got it,
not because he's literally missing an eye. You know, that
was the original purpose of eye patches, at least, you know,
it's my understanding of why pirates made them popular. But
(01:49):
Dad's not missing an eye, so that means he can
swap the eye patch back and forth, which he does.
You know, he lets it ride normally strapped to the
center of his forehead if he doesn't need it, because
he can read and do all of that stuff without
seeing double But if he's got to, you know, get
up and move around or something like that, then he
just slaps it down on whichever i he wants to
(02:10):
cover for that particular time period, and he's off and running,
you know, talking like a pirate and doing stuff like that.
So at this point, he's enjoying his eye patch. You know,
I don't know how long that's gonna last. But don't
feel too much pity for him because of the eye patch,
at least not yet. Anyway, at the end of the day,
you know, when we take everything into account, all the
things that we've kind of walked through as a family
(02:33):
for the past week or so, it seems like Dad's
weathered the storm really well and he's gonna be with
us for a long time yet. But you know, I
know a lot of you have been through this too.
You know, you've probably been through far worse things. You know,
many people have. But seeing Dad in the hospital room, tired, weak,
you know, struggling to breathe at times, you know, seeing
(02:55):
all of that take place was so tough, you know,
crazy tough. And like I said, I'm not saying anything new,
you know, to anybody who's been there, you know, and
that's really not my point. I'm not trying to say
anything new. I guess I'm just talking about my experience. Right.
It's cathartic, you know, So this is this is therapy
(03:17):
for me, But I just want to talk it through
because it was so jolting to see this guy who's
always tough, right, that's always tough, faking it all the time.
We knew some of that, but he always had this crunchy,
crusty exterior that was super tough, you know, and he
was always really silly, you know, super tough, I should clarify,
(03:38):
super tough. When it came to you know, injuries or
anything like that, he would just you know, power through everything.
But he was also crazy silly, like literally crazy, so stubborn,
you know. Seeing that guy just laying there like that
in the hospital was really really jolting. And as I'm
standing there, you know, sitting there waiting there, my sisters
(04:00):
are there, and as we're all there, the memories just
come flooding back, and it was really unreal. You know.
I thought I had a good handle on the memories
of my childhood. I feel like I've done a good
job keeping those front and center in my mind, you know,
all the fun that I had growing up. But when
that moment hit this past week and I'm standing in
(04:22):
that hospital room, I was completely amazed at the thoughts
that came pouring back into my mind, you know, things
that I hadn't thought about in years, but things that
I could literally hear in my head. I could hear
these things again, and I could smell, you know, certain things,
and you know, it was very a very visceral experience.
(04:42):
The memories were that vivid. You know, Dad flying kites
with us every single March, for example. You know, the
snow's not even completely melted yet, the wind was always
super chilly, but the sun was out, and he'd get
us out there in the yard every March, you know,
and we'd be out there, you know, bundled up, staring
at this kite in the air for hours, you know,
(05:05):
running around in the yard staring at the kite, having
a blast. I had no idea what the main draw was,
looking back, you know, what made me stay out there
so long as a little kid. But it was a
rite of spring, you know, every single year when Dad
came home with his new kite, which he did every March,
we knew spring was coming, and we knew we had
(05:26):
big time fun coming up on the coming Saturday because
we're gonna be out in the yard with that kite.
Another memory, Dad talking to his invisible friends at the
grocery store or the restaurant or church or wherever. And yeah,
you heard that right. The man had invisible friends. You know,
they were invisible. They were friends Bob and Henry. You know,
(05:49):
that's what he called them. We don't know where the
names came from or what sparked this. And honestly, I'm
talking about this in the past tense. It's still ongoing.
He still has invisible friends. Kids. We thought it was hilarious.
The grandkids think it's hilarious. And of course that's the point.
He doesn't have serious problems that he really thinks these
people are there. I don't think so anyway. I think
(06:12):
he knows that they're fake. But he has a lot
of fun. He's never embarrassed. He never had this sense
of embarrassment at all. You know me, I'm constantly embarrassed.
I'm very self conscious wherever I go anywhere. Dad he
could go anywhere, He could do anything, and if people
thought he was crazy, that was just you know, that
was icing on the cake. That was gravy. He loved that.
(06:34):
So he'd go places and he'd hold open doors for
invisible people to walk through. You know, I remember as
a kid watching people with shocked faces as Dad is
holding a door open and kind of urging some small,
invisible person to move through the door and get to
the car. He'd have full conversations with him, and we
would laugh and laugh and laugh. He'd save seats for
(06:56):
them at restaurants or at church. It was honestly nuts,
but as a kid, it was hilarious. Even now, it's funny,
you know, it's funny watching the people of his condos
see him talk to invisible people. Or now, now some
of these people, these invisible friends, Bob and Henry, they
live in stuffed animals that Dad has collected. It's too
(07:16):
weird to explain, but just understand he's got little stuffed
things that he carries around with him that he talks
to like they're real people. And the kids love it,
grandkids love it. It's weird. You know, it's weird. I'm
giving you that it's weird, but it's Dad, and those
memories came flooding back. Another thing that I would think
about is the hours and hours and hours that he
(07:36):
spent coaching my little league teams, playing baseball or football
in the yard with me, even boxing. You know, I
remember one Christmas, I opened up a pair of boxing gloves,
and surprise, surprise, Dad got a pair as well. And
from that point on we'd box. He'd be on his
knees in the yard or in the living room and
we'd be, you know, going back and forth sparring, and
Mom would be yelling, you know, stop that you're gonna
(07:58):
get hurt. You know, things like that all the time.
But it was so much fun. I can't go through
every single memory that I've ever had. I can't even
spend you know, much more time going through just these.
You know, I've got to shut up and move on.
What do these matter to you anyway? These memories? You know,
you've got your own memories. These silly ones are mine
(08:19):
and their gold to me. But for you, who knows,
you know, maybe they're just ridiculous. But here's the thing.
You've got your memories, yeah, you know, your memories with
the people that you love. And if you haven't already
done so, take the time to write them down, you know,
or tell them to your kids, or do both if
you've got a chance. You know, if you've still got
this opportunity, talk them over with your mom and dad.
(08:42):
You know, your grandpa and your grandma, the people who
made these memories with you. And you know, maybe you're
doing that already, maybe you do that on a regular basis,
then you are winning. You know, that is how you
should be doing things. I have not done enough of this.
I've done a lot, but when I'm standing there in
that hospital room, I realize I haven't done enough. And
that's something that we all know, right, We instinctively know that,
(09:05):
you know, we know that we're supposed to make the
most of the time that we've got. You know, there's
no time like the present. Don't put it off. You know,
all of those things, all those little cliches, and yet
we do, right, we put it off. We all put
it off. You know. On the show, we talk about
home projects all the time, and I'm always encouraging you
to get them tackled, you know, to cross them off
your list. Get that room painted. You know, don't wait
(09:28):
another weekend. You're gonna feel so much better when you're done.
You know, when the walls are wall papered beautifully or
painted beautifully the living room, it's that perfect color. You're
gonna feel great when that's done. Right, I talk about
that all the time. And that's good stuff, you know,
it is. It's good stuff. Getting those projects done. It
is gonna make you, you know, feel better about your home.
You're gonna feel good about getting things crossed off your list.
(09:50):
That's all really good stuff. But man, are those things
so ridiculously paltry in comparison to spending time with the
people who shaped you, you, you know, as a human being
who raised you, who filled your life with great memories.
You know, we have seen a ton of junk over
the last few weeks. And one thing that we all
know for sure, you never know what you're gonna get.
(10:13):
You know, you never know how much time you're gonna have.
And when you're standing in a hospital room unexpectedly on
a Saturday afternoon, you realize now, I guess I can't.
I can't speak for you. When I was standing in
that hospital room unexpectedly on a Saturday afternoon, I realized
what was important and what wasn't important. I realized how
much time I've spent chasing things that don't matter, and
(10:36):
how little time, when it's really all boiled down, how
little time I poured into the things that really, really
really matter. You know, Dad and Mom live two minutes
from my house, you know, five minutes, ten minutes if
I walk there, but I don't see them nearly enough.
It's time for some changes, you know. I've realized that,
and I'm hoping I can come through on this because
(10:57):
it's easy to make these bold you knows, and then
life is going to catch up. But I want to
remember what I was feeling in that hospital room when
things were a little dicey and we didn't know what
we were gonna have. You know, now we're looking at it,
and now we've got more time and plenty of time
and all of that. But there was a moment, you know,
at least a moment where I didn't know what we
(11:19):
had left, and I realized how much I just left
on the table. And that was so dumb to not
have spent more time, you know, with mom and Dad.
So buckle up, Mom and Dad. I'm coming over a
lot more. That's the plan. You know. Maybe Dad and
I can box, I don't know, just sit around wearing
eye patches. We could talk like pirates, we can talk
(11:40):
to invisible people. I have no idea what you guys
are gonna want to do. What's gonna be fun? Maybe
we can just have coffee and laugh about all the
things that we did growing up, you know, all the
beauty that you gave us as kids growing up. Who
knows what we're gonna do, but we're gonna do a
lot more of it, all right. I'm sorry to go
(12:01):
on and on about that. I hope some of that
matters to some of you out there, but I needed
to get it off my chest. I needed to think
it through out loud, and over all the years that
I've done this radio stuff, one of my favorite things
has been to live out in the open in front
of everybody. And I feel like if I learned something,
I'm sure somebody out there is going to be grabbing
(12:23):
some of what I'm saying and seeing some value in it.
So hopefully you found some value in that. Let's take
a break right now, and when we come back. I've
got a lot of different things we're going to hit.
At the end of the show, We'll be covering a
listener question about a paint failure, a monumental paint failure
in a bathroom. We're going to talk about what went wrong,
how to fix it, and more importantly, how to avoid
(12:43):
it in the first place. We'll do that. We'll also
dig into bathroom fans, you know, finding the right one
for your space if you're looking for a new one,
and how to know if the one that you currently
have is doing the job that it needs to do.
So we'll get to all of that, and coming up
in just a little bit, we're going to be basically
making some clarifications on something that I talked about last
week but was a little bit vague about. We're going
(13:04):
to get to that right after this Homean Progress is
brought to you by repcoll Like Paints and Benjamin Moore.
You know, people often think of paint as just another
line item on the project's supply list. But here's the thing.
Everything you do, every hour of prep, every stroke of
the brush, all comes down to the quality of the paint.
The paint is the project. Make sure it's the best.
(13:24):
All right. Right now, I want to take a few
minutes and clean up some untidiness from last week. Basically,
I want to make some clarifications that I left a
little vague on last episode, and y'all called me out
on a couple of them, and you were right to do. So. Okay,
last week we spent some time talking about stump removal.
(13:47):
You know in your yard stump removal, you know how
to speed up the prop Why do I need to
make that clarification. I don't know why my brain felt
the need to make a clarification that I'm talking about
removing stumps from your yard anyway, stump removal from your yard.
We talked about speeding up the process with chemical removers
and even epsom salts, and that sparked some follow up questions.
(14:11):
So today I wanted to circle back and make a
little more of a clarified, clear presentation on what I
was getting at all. Right, first off, let's look at
the products that I talked about to chemically remove the stump.
Most chemical stump removers they're made with potassium nitrate, and
that's pretty effective. It encourages microbial and fungal activity that
helps break the wood down faster. EPSOM salts, on the
(14:34):
other hand, fall into a little bit of a gray
area here. You know, technically their magnesium sulfate, which plants
actually need in small amounts, but when you use them
in larger doses, they kind of create the salty environment
that can dehydrate and weaken a stump. So yeah, they
can help, you know, they can help the process, but
they really aren't going to work as quickly or as
(14:55):
reliably as potassium nitrate, you know, a chemical stump remover. Basically,
you should think of EPSOM salts as more of a
slow assist rather than a magic bullet. So while the
EPSOM salt route isn't technically wrong, it's really not the
best way to go. They're going to be slow, and
they really should be a secondary or you know, a tertiary,
(15:17):
a third option. They're going to be best for small
stumps or for preventing regrowth, not full decomposition. So I
wanted to clarify that I didn't make that clear last
week when I was talking. All right, now, let's deal
with another question that came up that I like even better,
because I really wish I had gotten into this last week.
If here's the question, if I use stump removers, you know,
(15:39):
a chemical stump remover, am I ever going to be
able to grow grass in that area ever? Again? You know?
If I use a chemical stump remover or EPSOM salts,
am I just salting the earth And it's never going
to ever you know, allow grass to grow there ever again? Well,
the short answer is absolutely yes, you can grow grass
there again. In fact, both of these chemicals actually break
(15:59):
down and nutrients that the grass loves. You know, potassium
nitrate that becomes potassium and nitrogen, two key ingredients in
most fertilizers. EP some salts that breaks down into magnesium
and sulfur, which are also plant nutrients. So you're not
poisoning the soil, you're just changing its chemistry, and you
are adding more of these components, these nutrients than you'd
(16:20):
probably want in that space. So if you've done that,
here's how to get grass growing again. You know, if
you've used either of these chemicals. First off, once the
stump is softened and rotted down, shovel out as much
of that decayed wood and sawdust as you can. Right,
we talked about that last week. Get it out of there.
If you leave it, it's going to rob the nitrogen
from the soil and your grass is going to come
(16:41):
in yellow and kind of weak. So clear it out
and then backfill with fresh top soil or a compost mix. Now,
after you've done that, be sure to give the area
a really good flush with water a few times over
the course of a week. And that's going to help
wash away salts and disperse some of the other chemicals
that are there in higher concentrations than you'd really like.
When it comes time to get the grass growing, so
(17:02):
flush it really well. And another step here, you know,
once you've done this flushing for a good week, is
to test the soil. You know, you can bring it
away to different garden centers who will test it for you,
or you can grab an inexpensive you know, DIY kit
from a garden center or buy one online and that'll
give you a quick read on the pH levels and
sometimes the nutrients depends on which kit you get. For grass,
(17:24):
you're usually aiming for a pH between six and seven.
If it's off, the test kit's going to tell you
how to adjust it, and that way you're not just guessing,
you know, before you recede everything. So do all of that,
and when you're ready to plant, loosen up the soil
a few inches deep, mix in a little compost and
spread the grass seed in. I'd recommend using a starter fertilizer.
That's probably a really good way to go. It's going
(17:45):
to give the new grass an early boost, so do that.
Rake it in, cover it lightly with straw or peat,
moss or whatever, maybe even more top soil a little
bit of that and keep it watered, you know, kind
of like a wrung out sponge, not swampy, but just
like a wrung out sponge, and do that until the
grass pops. Be patient. Depending on the season, you're usually
(18:06):
going to see a full patch of grass within two
to three months. And if the ground settles or things
start to look thin, just add more soil and overseed. Now,
there is one other option that I heard about, an
organic approach that's worth mentioning to get rid of a stump,
and that's to mound dirt right over the stump, you know,
mound dirt over that thing, plant groundcover, and then let
(18:26):
nature rot the stump out on its own. Now, that
works too, but it's going to take a lot longer,
you know, generally two to five years to make that happen,
and you'll have to top off that soil as things
break down, and you're going to have that bump, you know,
that little hump on the yard. It's less effort upfront,
but more patience is required, and you've got to tolerate
that look for a while. So there you go, removing
(18:49):
a stump. I think I covered all the things that
I didn't say as clearly as I wish I had
last week. I think I'm good. I'm going to let
that one go and move on, all right. Peeling paint
in the bathroom? What's going on? How do you fix it?
And how do you avoid it in the first place.
We'll get to all of that right after. This home
in progress is brought to you by Repcolite Paints and
Benjamin Moore. Think about it. You spend hours prepping, sanding, taping,
(19:12):
and then finally painting. Don't throw all that work away
with an inferior product. The paint isn't just another supply.
The paint is the project. Make sure it's the best,
all right. I want to jump into another paint question
from a listener, and this one's a good one. Not
that the other ones weren't, but this one's This one's
really good. But before I get to it, if you
have a paint question, you know, a paint question, a
(19:34):
design question, a question about color or whatever, email it
to me at radio at repco Light dot com. I'll
get you your answer in the email, and if I
use your question on the show, like I'm doing right here.
I'll send you a gift certificate for a free gallon
of Repcolite or Benjamin Moore paint, you know, free paint
just for asking your question. I won't use your name
(19:54):
on the radio, I won't signal you out in any way.
I won't put your picture up on so media. I'll
just go over your situation and use it to help
other people. You know, we're using it to help other
people who are in the same boat. So you can
feel good about that, right, and you're gonna get a
free gallon of paint for your next project. So email
your questions to radio at repco Light dot com. All right,
(20:17):
here's the question for today. A listener wrote in with
the following situation quote. I painted my bathroom about four
months ago and I used Benjamin Moore paint in the
satin finish. Now I'm dealing with a fair amount of
paint that's peeling from the ceiling in the walls. What's
going on and how do I fix it? So after
that initial email, we went back and forth for a
little bit so I could gather a little more information.
(20:40):
And after doing that, here are some additional facts to
help make the situation clearer. First off, the previous paint
that the listener painted over was a finish on the
shinier side of things, a satin, maybe even a semi gloss,
so keep that in the back of your mind. The
customer has a bathroom fan installed, but it's a little
on the older side, so keep that in mind. And
then finally the customer wipe the walls down with a
(21:02):
damp rag before painting to remove cobwebs and the like.
But that was about it for the prep work. All right,
that's the background, and it's honestly a pretty common situation
and setup. And here's what's likely going on in this
particular situation. When you're talking about paint peeling. The first thing,
you know, especially in a bathroom, the first thing that
you're probably going to run into if you google around,
(21:23):
is the suggestion that there was a moisture problem, you know,
and that's definitely a possibility in this case. I think
it's part of the problem, but it's definitely not the
whole thing. You know, bathrooms are incredibly high moisture situations,
and having a bathroom fan, a bathroom fan that's the
correct size for your space, and that's working well is critical.
You know, it's going to move moisture out after showers,
(21:45):
and it's going to go a long ways towards preventing
moisture issues like peeling and the growth of mold and
mildew down the road. So the bathroom fan, that's really important.
Now to make sure that you've got the right sized
bathroom fan. There's a little math you can do, and
I'll put this in the show notes if you need
to revisit it a little bit later. But all you
need to do is take the length times the width
(22:05):
times the height of your bathroom and multiply by point
one three. Okay, length times width times height, and then
multiply that total by zero point one three. So zero
point one three. What in the world is up with
that number? It seems really random, right, Well, it's not
as random as it seems. It's a conversion factor that
(22:27):
turns the room's cubic feet into the amount of airflow
that you're gonna need. So basically, when you do that
length times width times height and then take that total
and multiply it by zero point one three, you're really
coming up with the answer to how many cubic feet
per minute cfms does it take to replace the air
in this bathroom about eight times each hour? All right,
that's what you're getting with that number. I could explain
(22:49):
the math that gets you to the zero point one three,
but does anybody at this point really want to know. No.
The answer to that is no, nobody wants to know
the math that gets you there. Just multiply the length
times the width times the height of your bathroom. Get
that total, and multiply that by zero point one three,
and you're going to know the minimum cfm cubic feet
(23:11):
per minute size fan that you need for your bathroom.
All right, So make sure if you're getting a new
fan that you pick out the right sized fan. And
there is another quicker way, you know, that's for a
bigger bathroom or a complicated bathroom. If you've got a
small bathroom that's really straightforward, eight foot ceilings and it's
under one hundred square feet, basically, just figure whatever the
(23:33):
square footage is of that bathroom space, get a fan
that will move that much air. So if you've got
a bathroom that's eighty square foot, you're going to need
an eighty cfm fan. That's the simple method. If it's
one hundred square feet or less, and the ceilings are
eight foot if they're higher than that, or the bathrooms
a little bigger than that, or it's more complicated. Do
the formula that I gave you, the length times width
(23:55):
times height times zero point one three, and I'll put
all of that in the show notes, so you can
go there and just revel in the glory of that
math formula. All right, check it out. Make sure if
you're buying a new fan, you get the right right
size fan. Now, in the next segment, we're going to
talk briefly about how to do all of that to
figure out if you've got the right size fan. If
(24:16):
you've got one already in your bathroom, you know that's trickier.
You've got a fan installed. You're not going to pick
out a new one where everything is clearly labeled. You've
got one up there, you have no idea who put
it there. Like mine at my bathroom, I have no
idea when it was installed. You know how many you know,
cubic feet per minute of air it's moving on a
regular basis. I don't even know if it's working very well.
(24:38):
All right, if that's your situation, next segment we'll talk
about how you figure out if that fan is suitable
for your space. All right, we'll do that in a minute.
Get the fan figured out, right, that's important. It's also
essential that you run the fan the right amount of time. Right.
Having the fan is one thing, running it is another.
And that sounds really stupid by but you know, if
(25:00):
you've got kids, you know, you know it doesn't always
get run. So make sure you're running it. But also
make sure that you're running it the right amount of time.
And the rule of thumb on this is to run
it for about fifteen to twenty minutes after you turn
off the shower. You know, the tendency is to want
to turn it off right away, right, we want to
conserve energy and all of that. But the energy you're conserving,
the savings that you're getting, you're definitely losing that by
(25:24):
just leaving that moisture in the room. That the damage
that that could do to your walls or whatever that
could cause. It's worse to have that moisture than to
pay that little bit of extra to run the fan
a little bit longer. So run it fifteen to twenty
minutes after the shower, and that should evacuate most of
the moisture from the room. It's also good practice, of
course to open the bathroom door as soon as possible
(25:44):
after showering. That's going to help get that moisture out
as well. All right, that's one piece of this peeling
paint puzzle, and skipping those steps is definitely going to
lead to issues down the road, you know, surfactant leaching, mildew, mold,
things like that. And even so, get the right bathroom
fan run at the right amount of time, all of
(26:04):
that that'll help in this instance. While that's part of
the problem, I'm almost certain that the bigger cause, the
bigger cause for all of this peeling is really prep work,
or the lack of prep work is probably the better
way to say it. You know, bathroom walls have seen things.
I mean, think about it, they've seen things, right, you know,
think about your bathroom walls for just a minute, you know,
(26:27):
imagine what they've encountered in their you know time with
you you know, soaps, come, hair spray, residues from all
kinds of different cleaners, dirt, grime, you know, the bathroom
walls they see pretty much everything and if that isn't
cleaned off well. All of those surface contaminants end up
really kind of forming a barrier that prevents your new
(26:47):
paint from bonding to that previous coating. So you always
need to clean those walls, and you need to clean
them well, you know, not just wipe them down with
a damp rag, which is what the person who emailed
me really just did. All they did was wipe it
down with a damp rag. That's better than nothing, but
it's not good enough for this situation. So use a
good degreaser like TSP tri sodium phosphate or a TSP
(27:11):
substitute that will work as well. You could use crudcutter,
you could use spray nine, even down dish soap. All
of those will work well as cleaners. So wash the
walls down well. And in a bathroom situation, personally, I'd
lean towards using a Scotch Brit pad on the walls,
you know, one of those little green scrubby pads that
you use for dishes. Get a Scotch Brit pad we
(27:31):
sell them at Repcholite, and use that to really scrub
and cut through the residue on the walls. You know,
once you've done all of that rinse everything with clean water,
so you know you're not leaving any of the cleaner behind.
All right, once that's done, there's another step that you
need to consider. If you remember back to the background
info that I threw out there, the listener said, the
previous paint, you know, the coating that they were painting over.
(27:54):
They said that paint was relatively shiny. They thought it
was maybe a satin sheen, maybe even a semigloss, And
that's pretty common in a bathroom. People will generally use
a shinier paint on that surface because of moisture. It
resists moisture better than a flat finish wood or a
mat although I do have a product I'm going to
recommend at the end of this segment that's a matte
(28:16):
finish that will resist moisture better than anything out there,
so we'll get to that. But typically a flat or
a mat is going to absorb moisture more so than
a satin sheen or a semi gloss. And so a
lot of bathrooms have satin sheens and semi glosses on them,
which makes that surface pretty shiny. And the problem with
that is that shiny paint is a barrier to adhesion.
You know, if you're painting over a shinier finish, if
(28:37):
that's what's on the walls, you don't just wipe them clean.
You clean them like we talked about, But then you
need discuff sand them to dull them down so that
your new paint has something to grip into. And I'd
recommend going over the walls with a one eighty to
two twenty grit sandpaper and do a good scuff sanding
and do that stuff standing. I just hinted at it,
but you do it after you cleaned. I don't want
(29:00):
to go before you've cleaned it and end up grinding
that contamination deeper into the paint. So wash it first
with your degreaser, you know, rinse it clean, let it dry,
then do your scuff sanding, and then when you're done sanding,
done doing that stuff standing, wipe the walls with a
damp rag. You know, no cleaner this time, just a
damp rag. And all you're trying to do at that
point is remove that sanding dust. Okay, once that's done
(29:23):
and the wall's dry, you can repaint. Typically on a
previously painted surface that's sound and scuffed. You don't need
a separate primer. You know, you just go with two
good coats of your finished paint and you should be good. Now,
if you've got bare dry wall spots or something like that,
or patches, you do want to spot prime those areas first.
All right, that's what you do to avoid peeling. But
(29:44):
what if you've already got peeling. You know, that's the
situation we're dealing with here. If that's the case, then what, well,
it's not pretty. You know, I really wish there was
a great easy answer to this, but there isn't. It's
not pretty if you're in this situation. Really, what you
need to do is careful scrape. Carefully scrape so you
don't damage the wallboard, but carefully scrape all the loose
(30:04):
paint from the walls and the ceiling. You know, it's
not a fun project. There will be, though, some big
winds after a while, and it will get to be
like a little bit fun as you're going. You know,
you'll be in there going for maybe an hour or
two scraping off little pieces. That's usually how it works,
and then all of a sudden you're gonna start working
(30:25):
loose you know, a piece that's not breaking up like
the other ones did. It's kind of big, and you're
gonna get all excited and you're gonna be working at it,
trying to get this big piece off, and soon it's
gonna be as big as like a like a you know,
a tea saucer or something like that. And then then
you get it to the size where it's a dinner
plate before it finally breaks off. And it's happened to me.
(30:45):
And let me tell you when that happens, I snatch
it up off the floor. I'm holding it up next
to me like it's a fish that I just caught,
and it's like, I want my picture taken with it.
I'm showing it off to everybody in the room. Look
what I just got off the wall. And then everybody
is trying for a big your piece, right, So that
moment happens, you know, And as stupid as it sounds,
you know, and you may not believe me, but make
(31:06):
a metal note, it's going to happen. You know, if
you're in this situation, it will happen, and just be
glad that it does, because it's little things like this
that keep you sane during this whole scraping process. So
scrape off all the loose paint that you can get,
and don't expect to get everything off. You know, most
likely you're going to remove large sections of the paint,
(31:27):
but then you're going to find other sections where the
paint is bonded really well. Now, the main thing here
is to make sure that whatever paint you leave on
the surface, make sure it's really stuck down well. That's critical.
If you don't do that and don't make sure that
it's stuck down well before you paint over it, there's
a really good chance that when you roll your new
paint over it, even just the surface tension of that
(31:48):
new paint drying can start to pull that other paint loose.
And that is incredibly disheartening. I've been there. You don't
want to be there. So take the time to make
sure that whatever paint you leave on the wall or
the ceiling, make sure it's really stuck down well. Now,
once you've removed everything that's loose, wash the walls down
with a degreaser, you know, like I mentioned earlier, TSP
crudcutter dawn, and then give the walls a good rinse. Then,
(32:11):
if the surfaces are shiny, you still need to do
that scuff sanding, and while you're sanding, spend extra time
feathering the edges where the peeled paint meets the paint
that didn't come off, you know, smooth those transitions so
they won't telegraph through your finish. Now, once you've done
all of that, wipe the walls down with a damp
rag and let them dry. And when they're dry, go
ahead and top coat with your new finish paint. And
(32:33):
one last thing. If you're painting in a bathroom, there's
one single product that you should be thinking about using.
Or a bath and spa from Benjamin Moore. Now, I
talked about a matte finish earlier. That's like a miracle product.
It resists moisture better than pretty much any other product
out there. It's this one, or a bath and spat
from Benjamin Moore. Like I said, it comes in a
matte finish, so you get a beautiful, beautiful look. But
(32:54):
like I said, it resists moisture, you know, better than
anything else out there. It's as close to a silver
bullet as you're going to find for a bathroom. You know,
there's no reason to do all that prep and then
use a lesser paint, do the work, and then finish
with the best thing that you can buy, and that's
aura a bathroom spa. All right. That's what's going on
with some peeling paint in a bathroom and how to
fix it. Remember, if you've got a paint or design
(33:16):
question and you'd like an answer and a free gallon
of Benjamin More or Repcolite paint, just email your question
to radio at Repcollite dot com and if I use
it on the air, I'll send you a gift certificate
for a free gallon of paint. All right. I mentioned
in this segment that you need to have the right
sized bathroom fan. That's easy when you're buying a new one,
But how do you find out if the fan that
you have is adequate. Well, there are a few simple
(33:39):
things that you can do to figure that out, and
we'll get to those right after this. You're listening to
Home in Progress, where the projects are real, the mistakes,
they're educational, sometimes painful, mostly educational, And the only thing
more stubborn than that old wallpaper on your bathroom wall
is your determination to get it fixed. Sponsored by Repcolite
(34:01):
Paints and Benjamin Moore Paint with a purpose, people who care,
and everything you need to get the job done right,
all right. Last segment, I answered a listener question about
fixing appealing paint problem in a bathroom, and in that
segment I mentioned how important it is to have a
bathroom fan that's suitable for the size of your room.
And in all my brilliance, all my sheer and utter brilliance,
(34:23):
I gave you the formula so you can crank out
that math and figure it out. In case you've forgotten,
here's a quick reminder. Take the length times the width
times the height of the room, and then multiply that
total by a point one three. That's going to give
you the minimum cfm, the minimum cubic feet per minute
of air that your fan should be able to move. Now,
if you're buying a brand new fan, that's pretty easy,
(34:45):
just go out and pick one that's rated for that number.
But what if you've already got a fan in place,
how do you know if it's adequate, if it's functioning well,
you know for your space. Well, there are a couple
of really you know, super simple tests that you can
perform that will help you get a handle on what's
going on and how well your fan is doing. First off,
let's figure out if it's the right size for your space.
(35:07):
And a simple way to do this is to do
this just when you take a hot shower when the
fan's running. How long does it take for the room
in the mirror to clear once you turn the water off.
Now it shouldn't take terribly long, you know, keep the
door closed for this particular test, but run the shower,
run it hot for the normal amount of time, and
then once you shut it off, see once how long
(35:29):
it takes for everything to clear up. If you're still
in a bit of a fog fifteen maybe twenty minutes later,
then the fan isn't performing adequately. It's either too small
for the space or it's not working well. Not to
figure out which of these two is going on. There's
another test you can run, and it's not terribly scientific,
but it will work. It's the tissue paper test. You know.
Just hold a square toilet paper up to the grill
(35:51):
with the fan running. If it's drawn firmly against the cover,
then the fans moving air adequately. If it doesn't stand
place and falls to the ground, then the fans not
performing adequately. You know, it's probably tired, it needs to
be replaced, or there's a duct work problem. We'll get
to that in a minute. If it is performing adequately,
if it does keep that toilet paper, that tissue paper
stuck to the grill, but it didn't clear the room
(36:14):
out in about fifteen minutes or so, then it's probably
the wrong size fan for the bathroom. Or once again,
it could be a duct work problem. All right, now,
to figure this out, I know this is complicated, but
you can go back and check the show notes. You
can go back and listen to this again, so you
can work through the troubleshooting. But to figure this out,
to figure out whether it's the fan is too small
(36:34):
or whether it's a duct work problem, you got to
start by figuring out, you know what size fan you
actually have in the space, and to do that, turn
the power off to the fan and then gently pull
the grill down an inch or two, reach behind it
at that point, and then squeeze these two little spring
clips that you'll find on either side of it, and
squeeze those together and you should be able to remove
the cover once it's off. Look for a data label.
(36:57):
You know on most fans it's going to be right
on the motor play or the power unit mounting plate,
something like that. Sometimes it's on you know, the inside
perimeter of the housing. So look there and once in
a while you'll find it stamped into the metal. Now,
if you've got attic access, you may even see a
label on top of the housing. Now, that sticker is
usually going to show you the model number and the
CFM rating. If all you can find is a model number,
(37:19):
just jot it down and then look up the specs later.
The internet is there and it will help you. It'll
help you get the CFM rating from the manufacturer's page. Now,
once you've got that figured out, you just need to
compare it to the size fan you need. You know,
if the numbers look okay and the fan is relatively
new and it's not just tiring out, there's one more
thing to check, and that's the duct work. Now it
(37:41):
may be surprising, but the duct work can actually make
or break a fan's performance. Every bend in the ductwork
steals power from your fan. To keep it simple for
the radio, think of each ninety degree elbow is adding
about five extra feet that the fan has to push through.
So a fifteen foot run with two ninety degree bends
is basically like twenty five feet or so for your fan. Now,
(38:02):
how much your fan can handle depends on both its
CFM rating and your duct size. With typical residential fans,
you know, say eighty to one hundred and ten cfm.
Once you get beyond the twenty five to thirty feet
of length on a four inch duct, you're going to
start seeing noticeable performance drops. For example, your fan might
be rated for let's say one hundred cfm, but you
could end up with only seventy or eighty cfm actually
(38:25):
moving through the system, you know, depending on the length
of the duct, and you know, let's say it's a
four inch duct, if you were running with a six
inch duct for that exact same length, the performance is
going to increase. And maybe that's a little bit surprising,
but it's really like the difference between drinking through you know,
a coffee stirr versus a regular straw. Right, the wider
opening lets things flow easier. A six inch duct is
(38:47):
going to let air move slower and with less effort
than cramming it through a four inch duct. So if
you've got a long run or several bends, if possible
step up to six inch duct work. Even if your
fan has a four inch outlet, you know, transitioning immediately
to six inch for the rest of the run still helps.
All right, it's a ton of info, I know that,
but it's all something to look into if your bathroom
(39:08):
fan isn't performing. And if you missed any of it,
remember you can catch this episode in all our past
episodes at repcol light dot com. Check it out. All right,
that's gonna do it. Remember to check out our blog
for more info on many of the topics that we
cover in the show, so you can get a lot
more stuff there. And don't forget if you'd like a
chance for a free gallon of Benjamin Moore a Repcolite paint,
(39:30):
I mean a free gallon you pick what you want,
you know, a free gallon of paint. If you'd like
a chance at that, all you need to do is
send me a paint or design question. Email it to
radio at repcol light dot com, and if I use
it on the air, I'll send you a gift certificate
for a free gallon of your choice, any Benjamin Moore
or Repcolite product. Remember, you can subscribe to the podcast
(39:52):
and you absolutely should. You'll be way happier when you do. So.
Subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts, and
if you do have time, and if you do enjoy
the show, leave us a review. Spread the word. It
really helps us take the show to new people, helps
new people find it. I'd really appreciate it if you'd
leave a review and subscribe to the show. All right,
(40:12):
have a great week everybody, and I'll see you next time.
I'm Dan Hansen. Thanks for listening.
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