October 21, 2025 • 34 mins
Monday’s ClutchFans live stream features reaction from Dave Hardisty and Ben DuBose to the relatively surprising news of the Rockets and Tari Eason not being able to agree on a contract extension prior to the rookie-scale deadline. Where does Houston go from here? Let’s discuss.
This episode is available in video form here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMwKKKv9mvk
This episode is available in video form here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMwKKKv9mvk
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome into the podcast. Guys.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am here with your friend Ben Dubos from USA
Today and Clutch Fans, and we're here to talk a
little bit about the deadline for those rookie extensions that
came and went today and the Rockets did not get
a deal done with Tarry Eason, which creates a first
(00:26):
among their drafted players of the past few years, and
that's setting up potential restricted free agency next summer. Ben,
what was your what you thought going in and to
see this actual outcome?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
What were your thoughts about the Tari situation?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Disappointed, but not surprised. When we did our postgame episode
the other night, you asked me about a percentage and
I said fifty one. It was really close because even
though both sides talked a big game, and the Rockets
have gotten so many agreements over the years, including a
few months ago with Jabari, who like Tori, was drafted
(01:06):
in that same twenty twenty two first round, and then
you had the Kevin Durant agreement on Sunday morning. There
were all these vibes and the Rockets have done such
a good job of keeping their guys the ones we
know they value, and Dave, you and I have talked
enough behind the scenes, we know they value Tarry Easton.
This is not that the Rockets don't like him as
a player, They absolutely do it. I think he's going
(01:27):
to be very important to their success this season.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
But the reason I was fifty one to.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Forty nine, despite all the positive reports, and I think
in hindsight, all the leaks of being hopeful, I think
it was maybe hoping that because there's so many other
guys that are taking these deals, that the vibes would
sort of carry the day, that everybody's finding a way
to keep this team together, and that Tari would eventually
do the same. The reason I was fifty one to
(01:52):
forty nine, this situation is so unique in that the
gulf between the bold case and the bearcase is wider
than any player I can remember other than Jalen Green.
Now that's the one comparable that I threw out when
we talked about this last week day. But the difference
between Tari and Jalen now, they're not identical in terms
(02:13):
of the risk reward factors. With Jalen, it was more
the nature of his play, the hot and cold. With Tari,
there's a little bit of that, but it's more the
injury history. Now, Jalen took that shorter term deal, and
I don't know if that was available to Tari, but
even if it was, I think it was less appealing
to Tari than it was to Jalen. Because Tari is
twenty four years old. He's going to turn twenty five
(02:35):
in May. Jalen was twenty two. I believe so Jalen
was at a point in his career where if he
took a shorter deal, not quite the aav that he
would want, and it's higher than I'm sure what Tari
was offered, like Jalen was offered in the thirties. I
don't think Tari was anywhere close. Can't confirm that, but
just you know, reading context clues, I don't think Tari
was offered more than Jabari. My guess is we're talking
(02:56):
somewhere in the fifteen to twenty range. That's mostly uneducated,
but that's what I think we're sort of looking at.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
You.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I agree, yeah with Jalen.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
He was young enough to where he would be twenty
four or twenty five when he came up again, and
if he played well enough, then he could get the
deal that he wanted. And that's why we heard Jalen's
agent this time a year ago talking about how he
actually had the potential to make more than anyone in
his draft class if it all panned out and he
got that next deal at the full max sooner, which
he theoretically could have by taking you know, I think
(03:28):
it was a two year deal with a player option
for year three with Tari if he were to take
something similar to that, and it would not be starting
this season, it'd be obviously starting a year from now.
He'd be twenty seven, twenty eight years old when and
that's if it was even offered. That deal would get
himTo his next contract, and at that point, I don't
(03:48):
know if he'd be getting.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
A four or five year offer. So long story short,
with Tari.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Already in his mid twenties, I could see him driving
a little bit of a harder bargain for Hey, this
is my one chance I need to cash and get
that four or five year deal that can give me,
you know, generational financial security. And I just don't think
it made sense for the Rockets at this point in time.
And it sucks, but I think the Rockets would love
to but the sample size just isn't there in terms
(04:14):
of mostly the injuries, but also you know, he didn't
look good in the playoffs either. There are some questions
with his style of play. I think the Rockets want
to believe in him, and if he goes out and
has a good season, I think they would love to
give him whatever deal he was wanting today. I'd suspect
they'd love to give it to him in July if
it turns out that has played this season warrants it,
and it's obviously vaguarantee. I mean, if he plays good
enough that he could potentially you know, OutKick OutKick the
(04:38):
coverage and be ahead of the market, but or his
market could be ahead of what it is today. I mean,
that is a little bit of a risk, but I
just don't think it would have been responsible for the
Rockets to bid that aggressively today. And from Tari's perspective,
I just, you know, I think he wants to stay.
This has nothing to do with him not wanting to
be with the Rockets. It's just, you know, if he
(05:00):
believes in himself, and why wouldn't he. He's two years
removed from surgery, he's had the issue, you know, cleaned
up if he thinks he's capable of more, and he's
talking in the preseason about wanting a bigger role, wanting
more opportunities, he would be selling low on himself to
take what his production would offer today. And so to me,
that's the bottom line. I'm not too surprised because it's
(05:21):
just tough for the two sides to get an alignment
right now. If he goes out and has a healthy
season in twenty five twenty six, they might next summer,
but right now the gap is just so wide. When
you look at you know, Tari's camp, I'm sure he
is pointing out the analytics numbers, all the metrics that
love him, the tracking data, and saying, well, if he's
healthy and he has had the issue corrected, this is
what he's going to be. And the Rockets are saying, yeah,
(05:43):
but here's what he's actually done. And so to make
that bet at this point in time, it would just
be irresponsible. And so I don't think either side wanted
to wait, but I just think that, you know, the
circumstances sort of forced it.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, and I'll echo what you said before.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I mean, we both know that the Rockets really value Tari,
so I'm sure they wanted to sign him, but like
as you said, I think David Wiener beam a thug
on Twitter, said it really nicely where he said a
good deal is better than no deal, which is better
than a bad deal.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And I think Tari wants a lot now. I think
that that, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Basically creates a scenario now where he he probably wants
to go out and get his value, you know, in
the open market next year. And I want to talk
a little bit about that because in the rafel Stone era,
Rafel has gotten a lot of praise and deservedly so
for signing his guys and getting them. He has not
had a Max guy yet, and he's gotten them at
(06:43):
good values overall. I'll throw kpj in there. Even though
they traded for him, they got him just before the deadline.
And you know, as much as I criticized that deal,
it still was only a one year deal. It ended
up getting out away from it, you know, without with
very little damage. And then they you know, Jalen Shangoon,
Jalen's contract was easily traded. Shangoon NEI there was a
Max guy. Jabbari not a Max guy. He's gotten them
(07:06):
all at what most people would consider to being really good.
Valuestari's now the first one that's going going to go
out into something restricted free agency that we as Houston
Rocket fans are very familiar with, just not this front
office hasn't had to deal with it. I mean, Rafel
knows what he's doing in restricted free agency. I'm just
saying they haven't had that deal with their with their
(07:27):
rookie guys. But the Rockets, you know, they have plenty
of experience with this. Darryl Morries, you know, era Rockets
had tons of restricted free agency and a lot of
it worked quite well. If you remember, Kyle Lowry was
a restricted free agent at one point, Carl Landry. There
were a few that didn't work well, and you know
Luis Scola because he leveraged, you know, outside of the
NBA as a contract to leave. And then of course
(07:49):
Chandler Parsons, which was the one that was the you know,
the one of the worst case scenarios, if you will,
where somebody goes out and Max is a player that
isn't necessarily worth it. Do you see a scenario like
that where Tari is an extremely valuable defensive player, He's
not a franchise player. But he's an ext you know,
he's a solid offensive player, a little chaotic, but solid,
(08:12):
and he is an excellent defensive player certainly as far
as how well he creates chaos. He's half of the
Terror Twins. Do you see a scenario where somebody comes
out and just blows you know, the projections the rockets
have out of the water, and they maybe lose him.
And furthermore, we'll talk about this because Mike mentioned this
in the chat, I'll bring his comment up is does
(08:34):
this increase the odds of trading him?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
And that's that's another part of this that you have
to consider.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I don't see how it doesn't because you're going to
have to make a decision by the time you get
to late January early February, and you'll also have more
data on your point guard situation post Fred van Fleet,
both how the internal guys are playing, as well as
what the odds are of Fred actually making it back
by the time you get to April, May and June,
(09:02):
and so you'll have much more information overall as far
as do you need a bigger move? And if you
do need a bigger move, then you're gonna potentially have
to use Tari as the main trade ship in that
and so I think it's very dicey because in some ways,
the better he plays, the more likely it is that
(09:25):
you might have to consider trading him because if he
looks and I sort of consider this scenario unlikely because
because he's gonna be starting the year six man, you know,
Steven Adams is starting tomorrow as we expect in Oklahoma City.
So I'm not even sure how much Tari is going
(09:45):
to play to put up the types of numbers that
could change his market. But if he ends up playing
a ton and playing really well to the point where
offers that could go beyond not just twenty million, but
twenty five million take you into the second apron are
in play, then that might increase the odds that you
have to consider dealing with him, because even if you
(10:08):
are sort of fifty to fifty, you think maybe you
can keep him, but I'm not quite sure. Well, if
you have him as a restricted free agent, you can't
trade him without his consent, so you're very limited in
your option. So if you think you might lose him
and his play is sort of tipping the scales, or
maybe it goes the other direction. It's just the chemistry
isn't right. You know, I don't buy the notion that
(10:28):
he's not going to play hard or that he's going
to truck. No, this isn't two thousand anymore. Like if
he goes out there and doesn't play well and he's
a you know, mal content and his efficiency dips, then
that's going to decrease his market value. Like he's not
at the level where you know, he can power his
way out like James Harden and people will give him
the benefit of the doubt. That's that's just not going
(10:49):
to work. So no, I think he's going to play hard,
and in terms of how well he plays, yeah, Unfortunately
the scenario wherever he plays too well, then you might
have to have some sort of hard conversations behind the
scenes in terms of, hey, you know, do we want
to sort of reshuffle our payroll to you know, have
a little bit more wiggle room to fit him in,
or conversely, if not, do do you think about moving him?
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Like I think, especially.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
In light of what happened with Freedman Fleet and the
obvious deficiencies that they have at Point Guard at least,
you know, deficiencies might be too strong because they like
him in and read, but the obvious questions that they
have at point guard, then yeah, there's enough there to
where I don't see how it's not at least a conversation,
especially because if he's a restricted free agent, you can't
(11:34):
use him in trades next summer. Like you know, there
might be a small chance you could sign and trade him,
but you take that as a bonus if it happens,
If you aren't able to retain him, and then somehow
sign and trade gets you some value.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
You don't plan on that.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
So if you're not sure that you're gonna keep him,
then the deadline is the time to move him. So yeah,
to answer the question that you threw out there, I
don't see how how it's not a bigger option right now.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And yeah, and that's the tough part, right because you
traded Dylan and you had a a wealth of these
sort of switchable, strong physical defenders. I would say tarry
Dylan men certainly, and you know Jabari is a little
bit more of a versatile type defender, but you know
you could maybe lump him in there as well. You know,
you lost Dylan, you added DFS to Dorian Finney Smith
(12:18):
to replace him, but he's out currently right now. If
you lose Tari in some capacity and.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Dave by the way, I'm sorry to break up the chat.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
No, Yeah, Houston legend George Springer, holy crap, just hit
a three run home run down by two in the
bottom of the seventh.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Of Game seven.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Oh holy and with all the with all the crap
they got thrown in him by you know, Seattle fans
and all that. If George Springer ends up winning Game
seven and preventing the Mariners from getting to the World Series,
which they never got into, what a Houston story that
would be. They still got to get six outs. But
oh my god.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
That was. Sorry to cut you off, but no, actually.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I might guarantee my my brothers are flipping out at
that this moment, because I gotta tell you I hate
the Dodgers with an absolute passion, but I would actually
root for the Dodgers, and it's crazy to say that.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
But anyway, I know we we got off.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
On But that's fantastic. I love George Springer and I'm
really happy to see that. So that's that's great. Hopefully
Blue Jays pull this off. It would be Yeah, and
with soul crushing for Seattle, which is a nice benefit.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yes, I think.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It has some Seattle tie. So there's ore. There's our connection,
absolutely absolutely from Seattle.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Hopefully the Textan can keep the thing going, although I
think they're down seven nothing whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I forgot about the days when I used to say
how Rafelstone just you know absolutely there we allow ban
Cao and yeah. So but you know, it's just that
if if you move him, Look, if you put him
into a deal where he makes five to six million,
it's not going to get you into like I mean,
it could be a piece and a Yannis trade, but
(13:55):
it's not going to be that your main salary. I
think that's one thing that I will give fell a
ton of credit for is is him being able to
get these contracts at good deals and then they're they're
tradeable after a year to at a much larger, more
value appropriate you know some and he won't have that
situation here with Tari. So Tari is gonna have to
(14:16):
be if it's a bigger type trade included with another deal,
a larger deal. So but my point was, if you
do trade him, you do lose another.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Key piece of your defense.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And you know, is a men Jabbari uh you know,
and and DFS when he comes back healthy enough to
still give you that identity that has been so key
over the last couple of years, we'll see that that's
a bridge.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
They'll they'll cross later on.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
But I just I do worry a little bit because
I think a two way guy like Tari will be valuable.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Somebody could come in and just say, you know what,
We're going to put Houston in a buying.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Because they do have a lot of contracts there and
by signing him to X amount that could maybe push
them into this and Apron I don't have the exact
numbers in front of me. It's more of a Beama
thug question. But that's the only concern I have. But
for the most part, I am a very pro restricted
free agency guy. It's very hard for players to get
to a cap room situation and get the sum that
(15:14):
they want.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
It's very difficult now.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I saw on Clutch Fans today there was a thread
that pointed out an article from ESPN I think it
was in August, saying that in contrast to this summer,
when only three teams had significant cap space, next summer
it could be as many as ten.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
So the idea is that is, you know, as.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Team friendly as restricted free agency was this summer with
you know, Cam Thomas, Josh Getty, Jonathan Kaminge those types,
it might not be as much next year. However, I
am curious what significant cap space means, and ESPN didn't
define it, or at least it wasn't in the the
thread that I saw recapping the article. The key numbers
(15:52):
to me are twenty and twenty five. You know, twenty
in average annual value. You could do that and still
have the taxpayer mid level exception for another upgrade and
still stay below the second apron. Twenty five is the
second apron as the roster is currently constructed, and then
anything above that then you know, you have to think
long and hard. I mean, you could match, but it
would put you in you know, Phoenix Sun's territory in
(16:15):
terms of how you know Boxton. You are with your
roster and unable to do anything else. And maybe the
team is good enough this year, maybe they win sixty
five games and you say, hey, like you've got to
do it. And if that's the case, you treat that
as a good problem. But I think that's unlikely I
think it's more likely to be one of these middle
ground scenario, especially TARRII starting the year as a six man,
and so I'm just curious, like how many how much
(16:35):
of the significant cap space are we talking just you
know mL level or are we talking a lot of
teams that go above twenty five million, because that's a
key number when you get like, I know Brooklyn has
that much room beyond Brooklyn, I'm not sure because that's where.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, I think I think there's more a lot more
this year than there were there were this past season.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Yeah, there's more. I don't know if it's ten.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
So yeah, like how much is you know, there'd be
a lot of teams in the twenties, but it's the
teams that are in the thirties, the forties and even
more those are the ones that you really have to
worry about because you know, they could throw an offer
sheet and it really wouldn't even be that big of
a hit to them because they have more money that
they could that they could deal with.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
So yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Would need to quench the numbers more and we'll have
plenty of time because you know, I don't think the
Rockets will really look at any deals into closer to
the deadline. I think, you know, at this point, they
want to get more information on Tari. They want to
see him have a good season. They've going to see
how the team plays, they want to see what happens
at point guard in the absence of bredbend Fleet. I mean,
at this point, the Rockets I think are just in
sort of like fact finding mode. They want to gather
(17:35):
more data, and I think it's just sort of punning
it back until December, January, February, and then they'll have some,
you know, some some hard conversations because if it's on
either extreme, if it's really bad from a chemistry perspective
and it's just not working out, or the flip side,
he's so good that he might be pricing himself out
(17:56):
of your market, then in those two scenarios you can't help,
but you know, consider moving him as opposed to risking
losing him for no compensation. And if it's in between,
then yeah, you just you know, you have the conversations internally, Hey,
are we more comfortable paying him what he wants?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Now?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
You know, you touch base with Tari to make sure
that you're still in alignment, because you.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Know, one reason why.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I don't think we'll hear too much behind the scenes
as far as how it went down. The Rockets very
much want this relationships to say good. So I don't
think this will be like a you know, if you
recall Brook Lopez two years ago, when those negotiations broke
down and the Rockets are talking to everyone wink wink,
including us behind the scenes about you know, the way
things went down early in July twenty.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Three, I remember, I don't think.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
That's going to happen here, because you don't want to
poison the well. I mean, he's obviously on the team
right now. But secondly, like I do think they value Tari,
and in a perfect world, they give him the deal
he wants next summer when they feel more confident in
being able to, you know, meet that figure that he
values himself at. Like clearly, you know, Tari's take the
bowl case and he's entitled to do that.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
He's not doing anything wrong.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
You know, I really object to the people saying that
all all these other guys are sacrificing, why won't Tari.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
No.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I think what happens in most of these cases, you know,
both sides maybe give ten percent, like there's you know,
there's the bearcase, there's the bull case, and then maybe
knock ten percent off of what you think you deserve
and it's close enough that a deal gets done. In
this case, I think the size are so far apart
(19:29):
that even if Tari knocks off ten percent, even if
the Rockets knock off ten percent, it's just not close
enough to where to where a deal can get done.
And so you know, ideally his play this season will
make the Rockets comfortable enough to where they'll go the
extra mile and say, hey, I'm I'm confident that he's going.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
To be worth it.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
But yet it won't be so good that he plays
himself unto like a thirty to forty million dollars a
year player, because then you go into the problems that
that we were just describing.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, so yeah, go ahead, Sorry, did you have more?
Speaker 4 (19:58):
You are to say no?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
I mean that's that's basically the crux of the matter
is that you're you're trying to find the sweet spot.
But in terms of you know, will we learn how
it went down today? I doubt we will, because they
don't want to make it seem like that that they're
making him out to be the bad guy because they
still want this to have a positive relations.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Resolution and it can.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
And so this isn't gonna be a situation where I think,
you know, juicy tidbits leak in the Chronicle or the
Athletic or ESPN.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
No, I think it's gonna be fairly hush hush. They'll say,
you know.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
This is a unique situation because of the injury history
and because of his age. It's not like any of
our other core guys. It's you know, it's clearly not
what either side wanted. Like the Rockets value being projectable.
We've talked about that, Like the team's gonna get more expensive.
They want to be able to plan this out. Eli
Whitess like he's thinking years and years in advance with
his luxury tax first APROM second Apron planning. And you know,
Tori wants to financial security. I'm sure being through going
(20:49):
through what he did the last two years, it's got
to be hell for him. And it makes sense for
both sides to want to deal. It's just what the
number actually.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Was, Yeah, for sure, exactly, And I know you kind
of mentioned that probably in the fifteen to twenty I
think that's probably where they were too. I think they
were under twenty is my guests per year, and I
don't know if that's where Tarry wanted to be twenty
and that's the hold up or what. But we we
don't know that for sure. We just know the Rockets
value him. And Rafel has been out and that's his background.
(21:21):
Rafel is a lawyer. He worked the contracts before he
was even the general manager. He knows his contracts and
he's done extremely well with those contracts. So I trust
him in handling this and I think you know, so
we don't know what's going to happen with Tarry.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
This season, whether he's traded or what.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
But now looking ahead to the next summer, you'll have
that and then you will have your first MAX contract
at least, you know, barring the unforeseen, you will probably
have that window open immediately and the Rockets will have
a max.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Announcement for a Men Thompson at that time.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So I think you know all these other things, you
know Jaalen, Shanghuntari, Jabari even KPJ before that, it's there's
a scale of what you think that value is, you know,
and somewhere between max and minimum, and that's the fight
but with a men, it's going to be probably very
clean and easy, my guess.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
And on Rafel, you can't praise all of the wins
he gets to negotiations and be too upset with today,
Like you don't get the wins they've consistently gotten on
these player contracts. If you're not willing to drive a
hard bargain, Like if agents and players think that you're
unwilling to walk away from the table, you're not going
(22:37):
to get the deals the Rockets have. The Rockets they
won all these negotiations in part because they didn't think
that or the players didn't think that they could get
better by waiting them out. So if you drive a
hard bargain and they've gotten so many deals, well this
is just you know, it's a double edged short as
with anything, like they are really committed to walking away
(23:03):
from the table. If you want to get the best
deals in life, you basically have to. I think that's
a you know, a fundamental principle of negotiations. If you
are pot committed no matter what, then the other side
is going to take advantage of you. So if you
like the deals that they've gotten, then you have to
understand that the way they consistently get these good deals.
It's not because the players and agents are doing it
out of the goodness of their hearts. No, they see
(23:24):
the Rockets as being, you know, firm that they're willing
to walk away, and they eventually say, hey, I want
to be in Houston. I want to be with the Rockets,
and so they take a deal that's ultimately team friendly. Well,
if you're going to have that approach once in a while,
you know, another teams or another player, excuse me, it
is going to call your bluff.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
And I think that's sort of what happens here. Not
because Atari's necessarily upset with the Rockets.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
I think it's just circumstances and you know, the injury
history making what he wants a little too risky for
the Rockets.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, and you know now looking back that there was
no extension done. I do wonder how much writing was
on the wall in the sense of Jabari signed his
early It was kind of a shock on whoa, Okay,
he signed and then nothing for Tari, which actually, when
there was still that Yannis talk, I thought, are they
hold you know, pulling back on Tari so that they
can still trade him? I mean again, that was pure
(24:11):
speculation because they were interested in Yannis, you know, and
then we saw him at media Day where he was
quite disappointed or frustrated or whatever you want to call it.
I think you nailed it earlier. I think he's going
to come out and ball out and play hard knowing
that there's a lot on the line. I don't know
if it's going to cause any small version of Cam
with more issues where he wants more of a role.
(24:33):
I doubt it because I think Tari is a little
bit different there and he contributes in so many different ways.
But that's just something possible to keep an eye on.
But the other thing that kind of maybe tipped us
off was a couple of days ago, Kevin Durant signs
his extension with the Rockets, which was kind of already established.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
In the works, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
He was pretty clear on media day saying, yeah, I
see myself signing an extension. I know you knew in
advance that was going to up happening, but they probably
were like, this is not looking great. Seemed like they
were holding out for Tari first and then and then
having the KD things happen. But Katie signs a two
year deal ninety million bucks, leaves about thirty to thirty
(25:15):
five million on the table of what he could have
accepted on a two year deal. He does get a
player option on the second year, so he's got this
season next season that's under team control, and then he
has the option for that third year including like I said,
this one and we'll see, but you're going to get
Kevin Durant at thirty seven, thirty eight, possibly thirty nine
(25:35):
years old and looking forward to that's that's going to
be tomorrow. What was your overall thoughts on the KD extension.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Well, it's a good deal, it's not overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I mean when it was reported by Scham's earlier this
summer that he was willing to take a discount, like
it wasn't going to be from you know, one twenty
to like one fifteen, Like what's the point it was
going to.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Be something substantive.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
I had thrown out, you know, two for one hundred
or two for eighty as hypotheticals, and this sort of
met in the It was also sort of telling on
the Tari front in hindsight that you know, we had
talked last week about how you know, maybe they were
trying to wait for Kevin to be after the Tari
deal so they know how much space they had going
up to the second apron. Well, maybe the fact that
they did the Kevin deal on Sunday was sort of
(26:15):
a tell that, yeah, the Tari thing wasn't happening. And
obviously Kevin didn't want to go into the season on
only a one year deal. He's had you know, bad
entry luck in the past, so it made sense for
both sides just to knock this out. And it wasn't
really connected to the Tari thing anymore because obviously the
Tari deal wasn't getting done at this time. It just
didn't make sense. But I think it's a fair deal
and I think it's gonna be really beneficial. I mean,
(26:37):
let's just be clear. One narrative that I would push
back on is this idea that you know, the KD
discount doesn't matter as much because you didn't get the
Tari deals. One of some people I've seen on my
timeline at least have said, oh, you know, Katie did
this and.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Then you don't sign Tari. No.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
I think you know, first off, Tari is entitled to,
you know, go after whatever he thinks is the best
deal for himself. I do wonder if he's going to
get it being the sixth or seventh man on this team.
But you know, if he wants to bet on himself,
that's certainly his prerogative. But the other thing is that
even if you know, the Rockets don't keep Tory for
whatever reason, Okay, then it's going to be useful this
(27:14):
KD discount to give amend the max if that's what
he's able to command. If you end up trading Tory,
then you know, I've seen some hypotheticals. Would you combine
Tari and Fred for Jerrick White something like that that
could make sense for the Celtics. Yeah, it would make
sense for Fred because you know the Celtics are good. Yes, yeah,
(27:36):
something like that. Well, that's that's going to be a salary.
Like if you combine those two salaries and you bring
in Derek White, who's at like thirty something million, then
that Katie discount is still going to be beneficial. So
it's not that because Tari didn't sign today that Katie's
discount is for nothing. No, you're still going to be
able to, you know, use that salary to help put
a contending roster around you know, your big three and
(27:58):
the current team majority of it. The way it's built
right now, it just might be a little bit different
than the way we had thought it would look, you know,
twenty four to forty eight hours ago.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, and I have to give the Fertigas a lot
of credit. They've been willing to spend. I mean, look
at what they did with Emao Doka and signing his extension,
which was you know up there as well. They want
to win, They've been willing to spend. I think, you know,
looking back to his early days compared to now is significant.
We know, you know, I see a little bit of pushback,
(28:26):
and you know, I'm not gonna, I guess won't call
it pushback, a little bit of questioning about a men
being a Max guy. Yeah, we have to see how
this season obviously plays out. But in his second year,
first team All Defense, there's so many unique qualities that
if he did get to a situation where he was
a restricted free agent, I think somebody with max caprom
would offer max max. And I think this is a
situation where he will be max just on how they
(28:48):
rank all these prospects. I just think that's that's what
will happen, but again, you know that's a year away.
We also know tomorrow night we will certainly do a
post game after the Rockets play at six thirty Central
time against the thunder Rockets missing obviously Fred van Leid
as they will all hear and dfs okay, so he's
gonna be missing. Jalen Williams still gonna be a terrific
(29:09):
matchup to watch. The Rockets are going double big, that
double big lineup, as you pointed out on the last.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Show, Ben really kind of tore up. Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
See, the Rockets have have Chet's number. Chet's a good
defensive player, he's not he's not the physical guy to
stop Shangoon and he's not going to keep Adams off
the boards. So watch for Mark Deagnault's uh, you know,
adjustments here. That's what I really want to see what
they do with this big lineup. And it's an even
bigger lineup now. Obviously they're starting a man as point
(29:40):
guard and Kadi and Jabbari at the three. So uh,
it's gonna be a lot of fun to watch that
for sure. Tary you mentioned this earlier, possibly guarding sg Ah,
so we might get a very early look at you
know how important Tari is and and you know kind
of his uh season to prove himself as far as
the contra. So just before we close, any last thoughts
(30:02):
on okay see tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
No, I think it's you know, a great opportunity without
Jalen Williams to go out there and be competitive and
potentially get a statement win on the biggest stage. And
you know, I'm excited to see now contract you're Tarry Easton,
you know, to bring this pot full circle. One narrative
that I absolutely do not agree with is this idea
that that Tari's play is going to suffer based on
(30:25):
not giving him a deal. No, I think he's going
to be even more incentivized. And no, I don't think
he's gonna go over the line because if he's inefficient,
if he's not doing it in a team construct. This
is not the nineteen nineties. In the two thousands, teams
are smart enough that you know that'll be a hit
to his value even if he is able to stay healthy.
So yeah, I think he's going to be incentivized to
(30:46):
play well. He may play with more of a chip
on his shoulder, and you know, I know you brought
up the Cam Whitmore thing from last year, but I
still think the biggest storyline with Cam is that he
wasn't good enough, especially defensively and with moving the ball
to consistently get on the floor for ima Ujoka. Now,
I'm not saying that the character concerns weren't real and
(31:07):
some of the off court things that you heard whispers about,
but I think that was more secondary. It's that because
he wasn't playing, then there there was a little bit
more noise in the locker room, and you know, you
heard these whispers on social media. Like, I think it's
sort of the the tail wagging the dog. To characterize
what happened with Cam wentmore into it being, you know,
(31:28):
an issue of him being a malcontent. No, I think
it's more he was a malcontent because you know, the
minutes just weren't there for his development, and that's sort
of an occupational hazard when you're a young player with
that level of talent and you aren't getting to consistently play,
and he just wasn't good enough to play for at
least consistently for a second seeded Rockets team. Tarry Easton
is good enough to play for a contending Rockets team.
(31:49):
He was last year, he will be this year. So
because of that, I don't see this being an analog
to Cam Whitmore. I mean, you can't, you know, never
say never. But I think, you know, Tari's gonna get
a head on his shoulders. I think he'll be fine,
He'll be motivated, and yeah, that's the storyline for me.
You know, he's got beyond the obvious of you know,
the Big Three against you know, Sga and Chet and
the defending champs in their house, Katie watching the thunder,
you know, put their first banner in the rafters. Does
(32:10):
he have some revenge? Those are the obvious storylines, But
I also want to see, you know, contract year Charie Easton,
does that lead to an even better version now that
he's playing for his next deal. I honestly would not
be surprised if it does.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, in general, and we'll close with this general question,
my generational later.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Why do you think Sham's reported at Tari in front
office disagreed on multiple fronts? Why say multiple fronts? I
think this is just annual value, how much he's getting
making each year guaranteed, and also the number of years
as much. Yes, and I mean I can't think of
anything else. Those would be the three facts.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Yeah, go ahead, Yeah, to go full circle.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I brought it up earlier in the pod, like the
only guy from the Rockets, you know internally drafted guys
that I think is comparable is Jalen Green because he
had some of the same boom versus bust qualities. Now
for different reasons, but I do think there were some
of the same dynamic. But I think the Rockets and
jale and we're a little bit more comfortable experimenting with
a shorter term deal there They had more flexibility as
(33:04):
a team at that point of the rebuild. But also
like Jalen had been healthy and he was young enough
to where to where a deal that was two or
three years and if it hits, then Jalen can you know,
get that four or five year max deal at twenty
four to twenty five years old.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
You know that the risk reward.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Made sense for both sides, as opposed to with Tari
now that he's in his mid twenties. I think they
weren't in you know, agreement on annual value, how to
account for you know, the injury history versus the upside
of the analytics, but also the years. I doubt the
Rockets could have mitigated some of that risk with a
shorter term contract. But I don't know for Tari at
(33:45):
twenty five if that was well at twenty four. But
he'll be twenty five next year when the deal kicks in,
if it's as appealing for him as it was for Jalen.
And I'm guessing that's the multiple fronts.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, absolutely, guys.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
We will be back tomorrow night after the game. Really
looking forward to the first post game to.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Dise what we see.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Also, we're gonna have later in the week. Can I
can I say who we're gonna have or should I
hold off on that?
Speaker 4 (34:06):
I would hold off, but we should have a good
guest later in the week.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, yeah, we'll have a We'll have something interesting later
in the week as well, So looking forward to that
to the game tomorrow, Ben, thanks for doing this.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Everybody.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Appreciate all the support and all the subscribers. We've really
grown the last week or two since we started doing this.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I think.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Hundred subscribers since then. I really appreciate all the support.
So thank you guys. Have a great night and we
will see you all tomorrow,
Welcome into the podcast. Guys.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I am here with your friend Ben Dubos from USA
Today and Clutch Fans, and we're here to talk a
little bit about the deadline for those rookie extensions that
came and went today and the Rockets did not get
a deal done with Tarry Eason, which creates a first
(00:26):
among their drafted players of the past few years, and
that's setting up potential restricted free agency next summer. Ben,
what was your what you thought going in and to
see this actual outcome?
Speaker 1 (00:42):
What were your thoughts about the Tari situation?
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Disappointed, but not surprised. When we did our postgame episode
the other night, you asked me about a percentage and
I said fifty one. It was really close because even
though both sides talked a big game, and the Rockets
have gotten so many agreements over the years, including a
few months ago with Jabari, who like Tori, was drafted
(01:06):
in that same twenty twenty two first round, and then
you had the Kevin Durant agreement on Sunday morning. There
were all these vibes and the Rockets have done such
a good job of keeping their guys the ones we
know they value, and Dave, you and I have talked
enough behind the scenes, we know they value Tarry Easton.
This is not that the Rockets don't like him as
a player, They absolutely do it. I think he's going
(01:27):
to be very important to their success this season.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
But the reason I was fifty one to.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Forty nine, despite all the positive reports, and I think
in hindsight, all the leaks of being hopeful, I think
it was maybe hoping that because there's so many other
guys that are taking these deals, that the vibes would
sort of carry the day, that everybody's finding a way
to keep this team together, and that Tari would eventually
do the same. The reason I was fifty one to
(01:52):
forty nine, this situation is so unique in that the
gulf between the bold case and the bearcase is wider
than any player I can remember other than Jalen Green.
Now that's the one comparable that I threw out when
we talked about this last week day. But the difference
between Tari and Jalen now, they're not identical in terms
(02:13):
of the risk reward factors. With Jalen, it was more
the nature of his play, the hot and cold. With Tari,
there's a little bit of that, but it's more the
injury history. Now, Jalen took that shorter term deal, and
I don't know if that was available to Tari, but
even if it was, I think it was less appealing
to Tari than it was to Jalen. Because Tari is
twenty four years old. He's going to turn twenty five
(02:35):
in May. Jalen was twenty two. I believe so Jalen
was at a point in his career where if he
took a shorter deal, not quite the aav that he
would want, and it's higher than I'm sure what Tari
was offered, like Jalen was offered in the thirties. I
don't think Tari was anywhere close. Can't confirm that, but
just you know, reading context clues, I don't think Tari
was offered more than Jabari. My guess is we're talking
(02:56):
somewhere in the fifteen to twenty range. That's mostly uneducated,
but that's what I think we're sort of looking at.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
You.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I agree, yeah with Jalen.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
He was young enough to where he would be twenty
four or twenty five when he came up again, and
if he played well enough, then he could get the
deal that he wanted. And that's why we heard Jalen's
agent this time a year ago talking about how he
actually had the potential to make more than anyone in
his draft class if it all panned out and he
got that next deal at the full max sooner, which
he theoretically could have by taking you know, I think
(03:28):
it was a two year deal with a player option
for year three with Tari if he were to take
something similar to that, and it would not be starting
this season, it'd be obviously starting a year from now.
He'd be twenty seven, twenty eight years old when and
that's if it was even offered. That deal would get
himTo his next contract, and at that point, I don't
(03:48):
know if he'd be getting.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
A four or five year offer. So long story short,
with Tari.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
Already in his mid twenties, I could see him driving
a little bit of a harder bargain for Hey, this
is my one chance I need to cash and get
that four or five year deal that can give me,
you know, generational financial security. And I just don't think
it made sense for the Rockets at this point in time.
And it sucks, but I think the Rockets would love
to but the sample size just isn't there in terms
(04:14):
of mostly the injuries, but also you know, he didn't
look good in the playoffs either. There are some questions
with his style of play. I think the Rockets want
to believe in him, and if he goes out and
has a good season, I think they would love to
give him whatever deal he was wanting today. I'd suspect
they'd love to give it to him in July if
it turns out that has played this season warrants it,
and it's obviously vaguarantee. I mean, if he plays good
enough that he could potentially you know, OutKick OutKick the
(04:38):
coverage and be ahead of the market, but or his
market could be ahead of what it is today. I mean,
that is a little bit of a risk, but I
just don't think it would have been responsible for the
Rockets to bid that aggressively today. And from Tari's perspective,
I just, you know, I think he wants to stay.
This has nothing to do with him not wanting to
be with the Rockets. It's just, you know, if he
(05:00):
believes in himself, and why wouldn't he. He's two years
removed from surgery, he's had the issue, you know, cleaned
up if he thinks he's capable of more, and he's
talking in the preseason about wanting a bigger role, wanting
more opportunities, he would be selling low on himself to
take what his production would offer today. And so to me,
that's the bottom line. I'm not too surprised because it's
(05:21):
just tough for the two sides to get an alignment
right now. If he goes out and has a healthy
season in twenty five twenty six, they might next summer,
but right now the gap is just so wide. When
you look at you know, Tari's camp, I'm sure he
is pointing out the analytics numbers, all the metrics that
love him, the tracking data, and saying, well, if he's
healthy and he has had the issue corrected, this is
what he's going to be. And the Rockets are saying, yeah,
(05:43):
but here's what he's actually done. And so to make
that bet at this point in time, it would just
be irresponsible. And so I don't think either side wanted
to wait, but I just think that, you know, the
circumstances sort of forced it.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah, and I'll echo what you said before.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
I mean, we both know that the Rockets really value Tari,
so I'm sure they wanted to sign him, but like
as you said, I think David Wiener beam a thug
on Twitter, said it really nicely where he said a
good deal is better than no deal, which is better
than a bad deal.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
And I think Tari wants a lot now. I think
that that, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Basically creates a scenario now where he he probably wants
to go out and get his value, you know, in
the open market next year. And I want to talk
a little bit about that because in the rafel Stone era,
Rafel has gotten a lot of praise and deservedly so
for signing his guys and getting them. He has not
had a Max guy yet, and he's gotten them at
(06:43):
good values overall. I'll throw kpj in there. Even though
they traded for him, they got him just before the deadline.
And you know, as much as I criticized that deal,
it still was only a one year deal. It ended
up getting out away from it, you know, without with
very little damage. And then they you know, Jalen Shangoon,
Jalen's contract was easily traded. Shangoon NEI there was a
Max guy. Jabbari not a Max guy. He's gotten them
(07:06):
all at what most people would consider to being really good.
Valuestari's now the first one that's going going to go
out into something restricted free agency that we as Houston
Rocket fans are very familiar with, just not this front
office hasn't had to deal with it. I mean, Rafel
knows what he's doing in restricted free agency. I'm just
saying they haven't had that deal with their with their
(07:27):
rookie guys. But the Rockets, you know, they have plenty
of experience with this. Darryl Morries, you know, era Rockets
had tons of restricted free agency and a lot of
it worked quite well. If you remember, Kyle Lowry was
a restricted free agent at one point, Carl Landry. There
were a few that didn't work well, and you know
Luis Scola because he leveraged, you know, outside of the
NBA as a contract to leave. And then of course
(07:49):
Chandler Parsons, which was the one that was the you know,
the one of the worst case scenarios, if you will,
where somebody goes out and Max is a player that
isn't necessarily worth it. Do you see a scenario like
that where Tari is an extremely valuable defensive player, He's
not a franchise player. But he's an ext you know,
he's a solid offensive player, a little chaotic, but solid,
(08:12):
and he is an excellent defensive player certainly as far
as how well he creates chaos. He's half of the
Terror Twins. Do you see a scenario where somebody comes
out and just blows you know, the projections the rockets
have out of the water, and they maybe lose him.
And furthermore, we'll talk about this because Mike mentioned this
in the chat, I'll bring his comment up is does
(08:34):
this increase the odds of trading him?
Speaker 1 (08:36):
And that's that's another part of this that you have
to consider.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
I don't see how it doesn't because you're going to
have to make a decision by the time you get
to late January early February, and you'll also have more
data on your point guard situation post Fred van Fleet,
both how the internal guys are playing, as well as
what the odds are of Fred actually making it back
by the time you get to April, May and June,
(09:02):
and so you'll have much more information overall as far
as do you need a bigger move? And if you
do need a bigger move, then you're gonna potentially have
to use Tari as the main trade ship in that
and so I think it's very dicey because in some ways,
the better he plays, the more likely it is that
(09:25):
you might have to consider trading him because if he
looks and I sort of consider this scenario unlikely because
because he's gonna be starting the year six man, you know,
Steven Adams is starting tomorrow as we expect in Oklahoma City.
So I'm not even sure how much Tari is going
(09:45):
to play to put up the types of numbers that
could change his market. But if he ends up playing
a ton and playing really well to the point where
offers that could go beyond not just twenty million, but
twenty five million take you into the second apron are
in play, then that might increase the odds that you
have to consider dealing with him, because even if you
(10:08):
are sort of fifty to fifty, you think maybe you
can keep him, but I'm not quite sure. Well, if
you have him as a restricted free agent, you can't
trade him without his consent, so you're very limited in
your option. So if you think you might lose him
and his play is sort of tipping the scales, or
maybe it goes the other direction. It's just the chemistry
isn't right. You know, I don't buy the notion that
(10:28):
he's not going to play hard or that he's going
to truck. No, this isn't two thousand anymore. Like if
he goes out there and doesn't play well and he's
a you know, mal content and his efficiency dips, then
that's going to decrease his market value. Like he's not
at the level where you know, he can power his
way out like James Harden and people will give him
the benefit of the doubt. That's that's just not going
(10:49):
to work. So no, I think he's going to play hard,
and in terms of how well he plays, yeah, Unfortunately
the scenario wherever he plays too well, then you might
have to have some sort of hard conversations behind the
scenes in terms of, hey, you know, do we want
to sort of reshuffle our payroll to you know, have
a little bit more wiggle room to fit him in,
or conversely, if not, do do you think about moving him?
Speaker 4 (11:08):
Like I think, especially.
Speaker 3 (11:10):
In light of what happened with Freedman Fleet and the
obvious deficiencies that they have at Point Guard at least,
you know, deficiencies might be too strong because they like
him in and read, but the obvious questions that they
have at point guard, then yeah, there's enough there to
where I don't see how it's not at least a conversation,
especially because if he's a restricted free agent, you can't
(11:34):
use him in trades next summer. Like you know, there
might be a small chance you could sign and trade him,
but you take that as a bonus if it happens,
If you aren't able to retain him, and then somehow
sign and trade gets you some value.
Speaker 4 (11:44):
You don't plan on that.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
So if you're not sure that you're gonna keep him,
then the deadline is the time to move him. So yeah,
to answer the question that you threw out there, I
don't see how how it's not a bigger option right now.
Speaker 2 (11:55):
And yeah, and that's the tough part, right because you
traded Dylan and you had a a wealth of these
sort of switchable, strong physical defenders. I would say tarry
Dylan men certainly, and you know Jabari is a little
bit more of a versatile type defender, but you know
you could maybe lump him in there as well. You know,
you lost Dylan, you added DFS to Dorian Finney Smith
(12:18):
to replace him, but he's out currently right now. If
you lose Tari in some capacity and.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
Dave by the way, I'm sorry to break up the chat.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
No, Yeah, Houston legend George Springer, holy crap, just hit
a three run home run down by two in the
bottom of the seventh.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
Of Game seven.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Oh holy and with all the with all the crap
they got thrown in him by you know, Seattle fans
and all that. If George Springer ends up winning Game
seven and preventing the Mariners from getting to the World Series,
which they never got into, what a Houston story that
would be. They still got to get six outs. But
oh my god.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
That was. Sorry to cut you off, but no, actually.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I might guarantee my my brothers are flipping out at
that this moment, because I gotta tell you I hate
the Dodgers with an absolute passion, but I would actually
root for the Dodgers, and it's crazy to say that.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
But anyway, I know we we got off.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
On But that's fantastic. I love George Springer and I'm
really happy to see that. So that's that's great. Hopefully
Blue Jays pull this off. It would be Yeah, and
with soul crushing for Seattle, which is a nice benefit.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
Yes, I think.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
It has some Seattle tie. So there's ore. There's our connection,
absolutely absolutely from Seattle.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
Hopefully the Textan can keep the thing going, although I
think they're down seven nothing whatever.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
I forgot about the days when I used to say
how Rafelstone just you know absolutely there we allow ban
Cao and yeah. So but you know, it's just that
if if you move him, Look, if you put him
into a deal where he makes five to six million,
it's not going to get you into like I mean,
it could be a piece and a Yannis trade, but
(13:55):
it's not going to be that your main salary. I
think that's one thing that I will give fell a
ton of credit for is is him being able to
get these contracts at good deals and then they're they're
tradeable after a year to at a much larger, more
value appropriate you know some and he won't have that
situation here with Tari. So Tari is gonna have to
(14:16):
be if it's a bigger type trade included with another deal,
a larger deal. So but my point was, if you
do trade him, you do lose another.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
Key piece of your defense.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And you know, is a men Jabbari uh you know,
and and DFS when he comes back healthy enough to
still give you that identity that has been so key
over the last couple of years, we'll see that that's
a bridge.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
They'll they'll cross later on.
Speaker 2 (14:43):
But I just I do worry a little bit because
I think a two way guy like Tari will be valuable.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Somebody could come in and just say, you know what,
We're going to put Houston in a buying.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
Because they do have a lot of contracts there and
by signing him to X amount that could maybe push
them into this and Apron I don't have the exact
numbers in front of me. It's more of a Beama
thug question. But that's the only concern I have. But
for the most part, I am a very pro restricted
free agency guy. It's very hard for players to get
to a cap room situation and get the sum that
(15:14):
they want.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
It's very difficult now.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I saw on Clutch Fans today there was a thread
that pointed out an article from ESPN I think it
was in August, saying that in contrast to this summer,
when only three teams had significant cap space, next summer
it could be as many as ten.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
So the idea is that is, you know, as.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Team friendly as restricted free agency was this summer with
you know, Cam Thomas, Josh Getty, Jonathan Kaminge those types,
it might not be as much next year. However, I
am curious what significant cap space means, and ESPN didn't
define it, or at least it wasn't in the the
thread that I saw recapping the article. The key numbers
(15:52):
to me are twenty and twenty five. You know, twenty
in average annual value. You could do that and still
have the taxpayer mid level exception for another upgrade and
still stay below the second apron. Twenty five is the
second apron as the roster is currently constructed, and then
anything above that then you know, you have to think
long and hard. I mean, you could match, but it
would put you in you know, Phoenix Sun's territory in
(16:15):
terms of how you know Boxton. You are with your
roster and unable to do anything else. And maybe the
team is good enough this year, maybe they win sixty
five games and you say, hey, like you've got to
do it. And if that's the case, you treat that
as a good problem. But I think that's unlikely I
think it's more likely to be one of these middle
ground scenario, especially TARRII starting the year as a six man,
and so I'm just curious, like how many how much
(16:35):
of the significant cap space are we talking just you
know mL level or are we talking a lot of
teams that go above twenty five million, because that's a
key number when you get like, I know Brooklyn has
that much room beyond Brooklyn, I'm not sure because that's where.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, I think I think there's more a lot more
this year than there were there were this past season.
Speaker 4 (16:54):
Yeah, there's more. I don't know if it's ten.
Speaker 3 (16:56):
So yeah, like how much is you know, there'd be
a lot of teams in the twenties, but it's the
teams that are in the thirties, the forties and even
more those are the ones that you really have to
worry about because you know, they could throw an offer
sheet and it really wouldn't even be that big of
a hit to them because they have more money that
they could that they could deal with.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
So yeah, I.
Speaker 3 (17:12):
Would need to quench the numbers more and we'll have
plenty of time because you know, I don't think the
Rockets will really look at any deals into closer to
the deadline. I think, you know, at this point, they
want to get more information on Tari. They want to
see him have a good season. They've going to see
how the team plays, they want to see what happens
at point guard in the absence of bredbend Fleet. I mean,
at this point, the Rockets I think are just in
sort of like fact finding mode. They want to gather
(17:35):
more data, and I think it's just sort of punning
it back until December, January, February, and then they'll have some,
you know, some some hard conversations because if it's on
either extreme, if it's really bad from a chemistry perspective
and it's just not working out, or the flip side,
he's so good that he might be pricing himself out
(17:56):
of your market, then in those two scenarios you can't help,
but you know, consider moving him as opposed to risking
losing him for no compensation. And if it's in between,
then yeah, you just you know, you have the conversations internally, Hey,
are we more comfortable paying him what he wants?
Speaker 4 (18:12):
Now?
Speaker 3 (18:13):
You know, you touch base with Tari to make sure
that you're still in alignment, because you.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Know, one reason why.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
I don't think we'll hear too much behind the scenes
as far as how it went down. The Rockets very
much want this relationships to say good. So I don't
think this will be like a you know, if you
recall Brook Lopez two years ago, when those negotiations broke
down and the Rockets are talking to everyone wink wink,
including us behind the scenes about you know, the way
things went down early in July twenty.
Speaker 4 (18:39):
Three, I remember, I don't think.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
That's going to happen here, because you don't want to
poison the well. I mean, he's obviously on the team
right now. But secondly, like I do think they value Tari,
and in a perfect world, they give him the deal
he wants next summer when they feel more confident in
being able to, you know, meet that figure that he
values himself at. Like clearly, you know, Tari's take the
bowl case and he's entitled to do that.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
He's not doing anything wrong.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
You know, I really object to the people saying that
all all these other guys are sacrificing, why won't Tari.
Speaker 4 (19:09):
No.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I think what happens in most of these cases, you know,
both sides maybe give ten percent, like there's you know,
there's the bearcase, there's the bull case, and then maybe
knock ten percent off of what you think you deserve
and it's close enough that a deal gets done. In
this case, I think the size are so far apart
(19:29):
that even if Tari knocks off ten percent, even if
the Rockets knock off ten percent, it's just not close
enough to where to where a deal can get done.
And so you know, ideally his play this season will
make the Rockets comfortable enough to where they'll go the
extra mile and say, hey, I'm I'm confident that he's going.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
To be worth it.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
But yet it won't be so good that he plays
himself unto like a thirty to forty million dollars a
year player, because then you go into the problems that
that we were just describing.
Speaker 1 (19:56):
Yeah, so yeah, go ahead, Sorry, did you have more?
Speaker 4 (19:58):
You are to say no?
Speaker 3 (20:00):
I mean that's that's basically the crux of the matter
is that you're you're trying to find the sweet spot.
But in terms of you know, will we learn how
it went down today? I doubt we will, because they
don't want to make it seem like that that they're
making him out to be the bad guy because they
still want this to have a positive relations.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
Resolution and it can.
Speaker 3 (20:20):
And so this isn't gonna be a situation where I think,
you know, juicy tidbits leak in the Chronicle or the
Athletic or ESPN.
Speaker 4 (20:26):
No, I think it's gonna be fairly hush hush. They'll say,
you know.
Speaker 3 (20:29):
This is a unique situation because of the injury history
and because of his age. It's not like any of
our other core guys. It's you know, it's clearly not
what either side wanted. Like the Rockets value being projectable.
We've talked about that, Like the team's gonna get more expensive.
They want to be able to plan this out. Eli
Whitess like he's thinking years and years in advance with
his luxury tax first APROM second Apron planning. And you know,
Tori wants to financial security. I'm sure being through going
(20:49):
through what he did the last two years, it's got
to be hell for him. And it makes sense for
both sides to want to deal. It's just what the
number actually.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Was, Yeah, for sure, exactly, And I know you kind
of mentioned that probably in the fifteen to twenty I
think that's probably where they were too. I think they
were under twenty is my guests per year, and I
don't know if that's where Tarry wanted to be twenty
and that's the hold up or what. But we we
don't know that for sure. We just know the Rockets
value him. And Rafel has been out and that's his background.
(21:21):
Rafel is a lawyer. He worked the contracts before he
was even the general manager. He knows his contracts and
he's done extremely well with those contracts. So I trust
him in handling this and I think you know, so
we don't know what's going to happen with Tarry.
Speaker 1 (21:35):
This season, whether he's traded or what.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
But now looking ahead to the next summer, you'll have
that and then you will have your first MAX contract
at least, you know, barring the unforeseen, you will probably
have that window open immediately and the Rockets will have
a max.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Announcement for a Men Thompson at that time.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
So I think you know all these other things, you
know Jaalen, Shanghuntari, Jabari even KPJ before that, it's there's
a scale of what you think that value is, you know,
and somewhere between max and minimum, and that's the fight
but with a men, it's going to be probably very
clean and easy, my guess.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
And on Rafel, you can't praise all of the wins
he gets to negotiations and be too upset with today,
Like you don't get the wins they've consistently gotten on
these player contracts. If you're not willing to drive a
hard bargain, Like if agents and players think that you're
unwilling to walk away from the table, you're not going
(22:37):
to get the deals the Rockets have. The Rockets they
won all these negotiations in part because they didn't think
that or the players didn't think that they could get
better by waiting them out. So if you drive a
hard bargain and they've gotten so many deals, well this
is just you know, it's a double edged short as
with anything, like they are really committed to walking away
(23:03):
from the table. If you want to get the best
deals in life, you basically have to. I think that's
a you know, a fundamental principle of negotiations. If you
are pot committed no matter what, then the other side
is going to take advantage of you. So if you
like the deals that they've gotten, then you have to
understand that the way they consistently get these good deals.
It's not because the players and agents are doing it
out of the goodness of their hearts. No, they see
(23:24):
the Rockets as being, you know, firm that they're willing
to walk away, and they eventually say, hey, I want
to be in Houston. I want to be with the Rockets,
and so they take a deal that's ultimately team friendly. Well,
if you're going to have that approach once in a while,
you know, another teams or another player, excuse me, it
is going to call your bluff.
Speaker 4 (23:40):
And I think that's sort of what happens here. Not
because Atari's necessarily upset with the Rockets.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
I think it's just circumstances and you know, the injury
history making what he wants a little too risky for
the Rockets.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, and you know now looking back that there was
no extension done. I do wonder how much writing was
on the wall in the sense of Jabari signed his
early It was kind of a shock on whoa, Okay,
he signed and then nothing for Tari, which actually, when
there was still that Yannis talk, I thought, are they
hold you know, pulling back on Tari so that they
can still trade him? I mean again, that was pure
(24:11):
speculation because they were interested in Yannis, you know, and
then we saw him at media Day where he was
quite disappointed or frustrated or whatever you want to call it.
I think you nailed it earlier. I think he's going
to come out and ball out and play hard knowing
that there's a lot on the line. I don't know
if it's going to cause any small version of Cam
with more issues where he wants more of a role.
(24:33):
I doubt it because I think Tari is a little
bit different there and he contributes in so many different ways.
But that's just something possible to keep an eye on.
But the other thing that kind of maybe tipped us
off was a couple of days ago, Kevin Durant signs
his extension with the Rockets, which was kind of already established.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
In the works, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
He was pretty clear on media day saying, yeah, I
see myself signing an extension. I know you knew in
advance that was going to up happening, but they probably
were like, this is not looking great. Seemed like they
were holding out for Tari first and then and then
having the KD things happen. But Katie signs a two
year deal ninety million bucks, leaves about thirty to thirty
(25:15):
five million on the table of what he could have
accepted on a two year deal. He does get a
player option on the second year, so he's got this
season next season that's under team control, and then he
has the option for that third year including like I said,
this one and we'll see, but you're going to get
Kevin Durant at thirty seven, thirty eight, possibly thirty nine
(25:35):
years old and looking forward to that's that's going to
be tomorrow. What was your overall thoughts on the KD extension.
Speaker 4 (25:42):
Well, it's a good deal, it's not overwhelming.
Speaker 3 (25:44):
I mean when it was reported by Scham's earlier this
summer that he was willing to take a discount, like
it wasn't going to be from you know, one twenty
to like one fifteen, Like what's the point it was
going to.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
Be something substantive.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
I had thrown out, you know, two for one hundred
or two for eighty as hypotheticals, and this sort of
met in the It was also sort of telling on
the Tari front in hindsight that you know, we had
talked last week about how you know, maybe they were
trying to wait for Kevin to be after the Tari
deal so they know how much space they had going
up to the second apron. Well, maybe the fact that
they did the Kevin deal on Sunday was sort of
(26:15):
a tell that, yeah, the Tari thing wasn't happening. And
obviously Kevin didn't want to go into the season on
only a one year deal. He's had you know, bad
entry luck in the past, so it made sense for
both sides just to knock this out. And it wasn't
really connected to the Tari thing anymore because obviously the
Tari deal wasn't getting done at this time. It just
didn't make sense. But I think it's a fair deal
and I think it's gonna be really beneficial. I mean,
(26:37):
let's just be clear. One narrative that I would push
back on is this idea that you know, the KD
discount doesn't matter as much because you didn't get the
Tari deals. One of some people I've seen on my
timeline at least have said, oh, you know, Katie did
this and.
Speaker 4 (26:52):
Then you don't sign Tari. No.
Speaker 3 (26:54):
I think you know, first off, Tari is entitled to,
you know, go after whatever he thinks is the best
deal for himself. I do wonder if he's going to
get it being the sixth or seventh man on this team.
But you know, if he wants to bet on himself,
that's certainly his prerogative. But the other thing is that
even if you know, the Rockets don't keep Tory for
whatever reason, Okay, then it's going to be useful this
(27:14):
KD discount to give amend the max if that's what
he's able to command. If you end up trading Tory,
then you know, I've seen some hypotheticals. Would you combine
Tari and Fred for Jerrick White something like that that
could make sense for the Celtics. Yeah, it would make
sense for Fred because you know the Celtics are good. Yes, yeah,
(27:36):
something like that. Well, that's that's going to be a salary.
Like if you combine those two salaries and you bring
in Derek White, who's at like thirty something million, then
that Katie discount is still going to be beneficial. So
it's not that because Tari didn't sign today that Katie's
discount is for nothing. No, you're still going to be
able to, you know, use that salary to help put
a contending roster around you know, your big three and
(27:58):
the current team majority of it. The way it's built
right now, it just might be a little bit different
than the way we had thought it would look, you know,
twenty four to forty eight hours ago.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Yeah, and I have to give the Fertigas a lot
of credit. They've been willing to spend. I mean, look
at what they did with Emao Doka and signing his extension,
which was you know up there as well. They want
to win, They've been willing to spend. I think, you know,
looking back to his early days compared to now is significant.
We know, you know, I see a little bit of pushback,
(28:26):
and you know, I'm not gonna, I guess won't call
it pushback, a little bit of questioning about a men
being a Max guy. Yeah, we have to see how
this season obviously plays out. But in his second year,
first team All Defense, there's so many unique qualities that
if he did get to a situation where he was
a restricted free agent, I think somebody with max caprom
would offer max max. And I think this is a
situation where he will be max just on how they
(28:48):
rank all these prospects. I just think that's that's what
will happen, but again, you know that's a year away.
We also know tomorrow night we will certainly do a
post game after the Rockets play at six thirty Central
time against the thunder Rockets missing obviously Fred van Leid
as they will all hear and dfs okay, so he's
gonna be missing. Jalen Williams still gonna be a terrific
(29:09):
matchup to watch. The Rockets are going double big, that
double big lineup, as you pointed out on the last.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Show, Ben really kind of tore up. Okay.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
See, the Rockets have have Chet's number. Chet's a good
defensive player, he's not he's not the physical guy to
stop Shangoon and he's not going to keep Adams off
the boards. So watch for Mark Deagnault's uh, you know,
adjustments here. That's what I really want to see what
they do with this big lineup. And it's an even
bigger lineup now. Obviously they're starting a man as point
(29:40):
guard and Kadi and Jabbari at the three. So uh,
it's gonna be a lot of fun to watch that
for sure. Tary you mentioned this earlier, possibly guarding sg Ah,
so we might get a very early look at you
know how important Tari is and and you know kind
of his uh season to prove himself as far as
the contra. So just before we close, any last thoughts
(30:02):
on okay see tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (30:04):
No, I think it's you know, a great opportunity without
Jalen Williams to go out there and be competitive and
potentially get a statement win on the biggest stage. And
you know, I'm excited to see now contract you're Tarry Easton,
you know, to bring this pot full circle. One narrative
that I absolutely do not agree with is this idea
that that Tari's play is going to suffer based on
(30:25):
not giving him a deal. No, I think he's going
to be even more incentivized. And no, I don't think
he's gonna go over the line because if he's inefficient,
if he's not doing it in a team construct. This
is not the nineteen nineties. In the two thousands, teams
are smart enough that you know that'll be a hit
to his value even if he is able to stay healthy.
So yeah, I think he's going to be incentivized to
(30:46):
play well. He may play with more of a chip
on his shoulder, and you know, I know you brought
up the Cam Whitmore thing from last year, but I
still think the biggest storyline with Cam is that he
wasn't good enough, especially defensively and with moving the ball
to consistently get on the floor for ima Ujoka. Now,
I'm not saying that the character concerns weren't real and
(31:07):
some of the off court things that you heard whispers about,
but I think that was more secondary. It's that because
he wasn't playing, then there there was a little bit
more noise in the locker room, and you know, you
heard these whispers on social media. Like, I think it's
sort of the the tail wagging the dog. To characterize
what happened with Cam wentmore into it being, you know,
(31:28):
an issue of him being a malcontent. No, I think
it's more he was a malcontent because you know, the
minutes just weren't there for his development, and that's sort
of an occupational hazard when you're a young player with
that level of talent and you aren't getting to consistently play,
and he just wasn't good enough to play for at
least consistently for a second seeded Rockets team. Tarry Easton
is good enough to play for a contending Rockets team.
(31:49):
He was last year, he will be this year. So
because of that, I don't see this being an analog
to Cam Whitmore. I mean, you can't, you know, never
say never. But I think, you know, Tari's gonna get
a head on his shoulders. I think he'll be fine,
He'll be motivated, and yeah, that's the storyline for me.
You know, he's got beyond the obvious of you know,
the Big Three against you know, Sga and Chet and
the defending champs in their house, Katie watching the thunder,
you know, put their first banner in the rafters. Does
(32:10):
he have some revenge? Those are the obvious storylines, But
I also want to see, you know, contract year Charie Easton,
does that lead to an even better version now that
he's playing for his next deal. I honestly would not
be surprised if it does.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Yeah, in general, and we'll close with this general question,
my generational later.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
Why do you think Sham's reported at Tari in front
office disagreed on multiple fronts? Why say multiple fronts? I
think this is just annual value, how much he's getting
making each year guaranteed, and also the number of years
as much. Yes, and I mean I can't think of
anything else. Those would be the three facts.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Yeah, go ahead, Yeah, to go full circle.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
I brought it up earlier in the pod, like the
only guy from the Rockets, you know internally drafted guys
that I think is comparable is Jalen Green because he
had some of the same boom versus bust qualities. Now
for different reasons, but I do think there were some
of the same dynamic. But I think the Rockets and
jale and we're a little bit more comfortable experimenting with
a shorter term deal there They had more flexibility as
(33:04):
a team at that point of the rebuild. But also
like Jalen had been healthy and he was young enough
to where to where a deal that was two or
three years and if it hits, then Jalen can you know,
get that four or five year max deal at twenty
four to twenty five years old.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
You know that the risk reward.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
Made sense for both sides, as opposed to with Tari
now that he's in his mid twenties. I think they
weren't in you know, agreement on annual value, how to
account for you know, the injury history versus the upside
of the analytics, but also the years. I doubt the
Rockets could have mitigated some of that risk with a
shorter term contract. But I don't know for Tari at
(33:45):
twenty five if that was well at twenty four. But
he'll be twenty five next year when the deal kicks in,
if it's as appealing for him as it was for Jalen.
And I'm guessing that's the multiple fronts.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Yeah, absolutely, guys.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
We will be back tomorrow night after the game. Really
looking forward to the first post game to.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Dise what we see.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Also, we're gonna have later in the week. Can I
can I say who we're gonna have or should I
hold off on that?
Speaker 4 (34:06):
I would hold off, but we should have a good
guest later in the week.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
Yeah, yeah, we'll have a We'll have something interesting later
in the week as well, So looking forward to that
to the game tomorrow, Ben, thanks for doing this.
Speaker 1 (34:17):
Everybody.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
Appreciate all the support and all the subscribers. We've really
grown the last week or two since we started doing this.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
I think.
Speaker 2 (34:25):
Hundred subscribers since then. I really appreciate all the support.
So thank you guys. Have a great night and we
will see you all tomorrow,
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