October 16, 2025 • 34 mins
The Rockets finished out a perfect preseason (4-0) with Thursday’s 133-115 victory at Atlanta, in which second-year guard Reed Sheppard (29 points, 6 assists, 6 rebounds, 4 steals, 3 blocks) stuffed the stat sheet. Our Houston-based postgame show, featuring Ben DuBose and Dave Hardisty, offers immediate reaction — along with insight on the upcoming contract-extension deadline for Tari Eason.
The episode can be viewed in video form here, via the ClutchFans YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5H7YddfNPo
The episode can be viewed in video form here, via the ClutchFans YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5H7YddfNPo
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Here with the president of the JD. Davison fan Club.
That's Ben Dubos.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
You know him well at USA today and writes clutch
fans as well. Ben Rockets complete the sweep of the
preseason four and oh and we're on to the regular season.
What were your thoughts tonight? Obviously several players sat out.
I mean, you're talking about seven guys, key guys, Papella Adams,
all the way down to the starters. We saw basically
(00:28):
reached Shepherd tonight, and he played really, really well.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
What were your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Well, it's not very the lead. The highlight was clearly
the JD. Davidson facial in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
The storyline was obviously reached Shepherd because he went up
there basically with maybe one other rotation player and Joshua
Kogi and a Kogi's a fringe rotation player, ninth or
tenth on your death chart against a Hawk's team that
and only started Trey Young at point guard, a perennial
All Star of the Eastern Conference, but played most of
its regulars. I mean, Chris tapsperzingis put up twenty three
(01:00):
and thirteen, and I want to say, like twenty eight minutes.
I mean, the Hawks took this game, at least from
a rotation standpoint, pretty seriously. And Quinn Snyder is a
good coach, and the Rockets just outclassed them. And read
Shepherd leading the way certainly statistically, but I think to
see Reid have that type of game when he had
(01:20):
the freedom, that's what I keep going back to his
postgame interview with Vanessa Richardson, five words stood out to me,
go out and play free, And of course he's talking
about the green light he had tonight because the Rockets
only had eight players, they rested most of their big
guys because it's the final game of the preseason. I
guess it didn't really matter to you, Maridoka, that that
a four to oh preseason record was on the line,
(01:42):
but they ended up getting it anyway, in large part
due to reach Shepherd. And I just think, you know,
you combine what we saw from Reed tonight with the
games he started last year when even as a rookie,
even with his flaws, he averaged like I want to say,
twenty points in five assists per game on good efficiency,
and I think it's pretty clear when Reid has a
green light he's gonna put up numbers. He's a good player.
(02:04):
He got a ton of steals. I think, what six
tonight do you have the boxing for?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I ha, I do had four, but maybe he picked
up a couple at the end.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I thought he did. Okay, okay, but maybe I'm conflating
the steels in the blox.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
But yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
The point is he makes plays on both ends. Sure,
he's a little small, he's gonna get beaten from time
to time, and he's gonna get in foul trouble.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Against some bigger guards.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
But he's also going to make some home run type
plays as well, and the hope is that those offset
and when he plays with freedom, he's a really good player. Now,
how does it contribute to winning? How can you put
an entire team around him? I don't know, but you
don't have to have the answers at twenty one years old.
I think the bigger takeaway here. I saw so many
(02:47):
offseason draft reviews of the twenty twenty four draft class
where these experts dropped Reid to seventh or eighth something
like that in a redraft, and I think that's absolutely
silly because the guys that are being moved ahead of him,
for the most part, are putting up volume stats on
mediocre to bad teams. I don't want this to come
(03:08):
across as criticism of Stefan Castle, who was a deserving
Rookie of the Year winner for the Spurs last year.
He put up big numbers on his Furs scene that
won thirty games, played half the year without Victor Winmbanyama,
and had basically an unlimited green light. We still don't
know how he's going to produce in the context of
a winning team and how it's all going to translate.
(03:30):
He's still figuring it out and so read not playing
much the limited numbers that we saw. This was a
winning team where there are actual expectations, and so it's
too soon to say exactly what he's going to be
in the future. I'm not trying to take a victory lap.
But what I do think we can say confidently is
that if Reid was drafted into the normal situation that
(03:52):
a top three pick in the draft would be, I
think we're having an entirely different conversation about Reed Shepherds
an NBA player, because I think he if he would
have played twenty five or thirty minutes per game, last
year and had a green light, he puts up big
numbers and people look at him as maybe a star
in the making.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
We're having a different.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Conversation simply because of the team he was drafted to,
and again, way too soon to take a victory lap.
This is the preseason. All those caveats are completely valid.
But this is also why you shouldn't be too despondent
by his numbers are lack thereof as a rookie. No,
he's still developing, and if you put him on another
team where he had a green light, he'd put.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Up big numbers all the time.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
And obviously, you know the question in Houston is going
to be how does that translate to a smaller role,
because especially with his archetype, there's going to be some
nights where he's misses his first three or four shots,
and if he's a backup playing only twelve or fifteen minutes,
he's not gonna want to risk tanking the game by
himself going one of nine, one of ten, something like that,
So he might get a little bit timid. That was
an issue I thought when he was a backup point
(04:53):
guard last year as a rookie, he's improved some between
year one and year two. The Rockets have both publicly
and privately behind the scenes, been extremely positive about his
off season for months. So some of it could be
physical improvements, but I also think there's a mental side
that you know, it is delicate for him to sort
of find the right balance between that go out and
play free mantra that he had tonight and the discipline
(05:17):
that comes with being a rotation player that might be
on a tighter leash only playing fifteen to twenty minutes.
So again, all valid questions, no victory laps, But what
I will say this is proof of concept. There is
no reason why if you were excited about Reed Shepherd
when the Rockets drafted him in June of twenty twenty four,
there is no reason for you to be less excited
about him today. The reasons he hasn't put up numbers,
(05:38):
the reasons he hasn't played relative to the other young
guys in this draft class, are simply because of how
rare the Houston situation is picking that high in the draft.
And so however you felt about Reid last summer, you
should still feel at least that good today in my opinion,
and today was proof of concept.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
For that.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, that's a great point. And you know, you and
I hadn't actually discussed. We just went cold into this
and hadn't exchange thoughts. But one of the things I
had actually written down was it's clear to me if
Reid had been drafted in the early Silas era team that.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
He'd be putting up numbers.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Now, this is today, was the best he's looked since
late last season as far as what we've seen. Just
for whatever reason, it's been a mixed bag the first
three preseason games and Summer League. You can throw it out,
but he didn't play particularly well in Summer League or
didn't thrive like we had hoped he would.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Although it was only like a game in a quarter
or a game in three quarters, so a little bit
of a sample size issue there, but fair exactly, it.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Wasn't It wasn't much.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
But I think it's very clear that if he had
been on those Silas era teams like you're, you know,
Jalen Shangoun Jabari, you know, you get drafted, you play
big minutes, he'd be putting up numbers without question.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
We saw this last year.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Okay, see when the Rockets rested those guys down the stretch,
he played really well. He's done this consistently when he's
been given as you said, free reign. So yeah, it's
a different story if he gets drafted by a lottery
team and you just throw them out there to play.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
There are things to you know, knits.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
To pick with Reed Shepherd, But today he played exceptionally well.
You know, I'm not saying he is this player, because
anytime you throw a name out there, it you know,
people will take the whole thing. But just when I
watched him defensively, just with his hands and the way
he kind of stripped the basketball out there pretty consistently,
(07:21):
was in the passing lanes, it just reminds me a
lot of John Stockton. And I'm old, you know, back
when I used to watch Stockton just being sort of
the undersized, a little bit shorter arms, but quick and
just basically got his hand on the basketball quite a bit. Today,
as you know, he's pointing out four steals, three blocks,
and had some really you know, highlight reel plays. I
(07:42):
mean the strip of Trey and then go the other
way and hit the triple. He just you know, like
I said, there's plenty of things that you can look
at with Reid that he's going to have to grow, like,
you know, just the on ball defense with his size,
just you know, teams are going to challenge him and
they're going to test him in his second year. But offensively,
if he's given the green light, he's already a shooter
(08:05):
in my opinion, on the level at least as far
as what you're looking at with a tray or a
Steph Curry. And I'm not saying these Steph, but he
could shoot those shots. If he gets, you know, five
feet beyond the three point line and you give him
the green light, he can put up points in a hurry.
So it's interesting because this is you know, I don't
know if he's going to start in this next game.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I don't think he will, but you're talking.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
About your seventh eighth guy right now on this team,
and he looks really good.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, absolutely, And I thought it was noteworthy then both haves.
He actually got off to a slow start. I don't
have the box right in front of me, but I
think it was three four or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I thought he was one for three today and then
he hit seven of his next year.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, in both halves, he sort of got himself going.
In the first half. There were a couple of midies
that he hit in quick succession, and then before you
knew it, it was one of those explosions like we
saw in the summer League game against the Clippers in
the second half where he puts up shots from distance
so quick that all it takes is a good two
or three minute stretch and you know, you blink, and
(09:05):
the stat line overall is just ridiculously good.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
And so the challenge is.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Going to be if he's not playing twenty five to
thirty minutes, and even if he does play mid twenties minutes,
the green light he has playing alongside Houston Rockets starting
level players, not.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
The group tonight.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
No disrespect to those who were out there and played well,
but for the most part, this was the the ima
Udoka culture show. When you look at and you know,
his guys did come in and make threes, but Isaiah Crawford,
Cameron Matthews, Caban Harris, those types. You know, one little
silver lining I would throw out there. For all the
concern about defense in the preseason, the Rockets are the
type of team that, unlike most NBA teams that suffer
(09:46):
defensively over the grind off eighty two games, because inevitably
some guys get hurt.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Actually, the Rockets might be a little bit better.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
As they go through the grind because inevitably, when guys
need time off or get hurt, then there's a clear
type at the end of that bench. You know, the
two way guys, but also Jayshon Tate, Dori, Anthony Smith.
Those guys are going to be back in the relatively
near future. And so the further down you go to
the bench, they all play really well defensively, so they're
certainly going to hold up on that end. And then
(10:14):
if they hit threes the way the Rockets did tonight,
I think what nineteen overall.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I did not actually note the number of threes that
hit him nineteen to forty.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Eight, you're right, yeah, I mean they were making it volume,
and so that makes it all the easier for Reed
to do his thing. And you know, Red's always going
to be a guy, at least at this point in
his career. Now, maybe you know, as the years progress,
he sort of develops the way actually Fred did the
last few years, gets thicker and more physical. But for now,
you're going to have to hope that Read individually. You know,
(10:44):
he's going to get beaten sometimes, but that he has
you know, the instincts, the quick hands to you know,
make enough plays to offset the low lights, if you will.
But another big part of it is you just have
to hope that the other players, the other four guys
that are out there with them, can help make up
for some of those deficiencies. And that was one thing tonight,
even with it being the end of the bench, guys well,
(11:05):
they can all play really good defense, and so that
made it easier for sort of Read to just hone
in on doing what he does best and letting the
other guys if there are any messages to clean up,
they have the ability to do that. I think, you know,
this was an Emai Udoka culture game, and in that context,
for a team that last year had clear offensive deficiencies,
(11:28):
Reads sort of the perfect guy to bring along and
increasingly take on a bigger role as the years progress.
I mean, in the short term you have Kevin Durant,
but in some ways, Kevin Durant is a short term stimulus.
You know, he's something to take you to that next
level now and to get this team from you know,
mediocre to good offensively hopefully mediocre to great, but time
(11:49):
will tell on that. But then in the long run,
and we're talking you know, three, four or five years out,
you know, can the Rockets sustained themselves at.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
A championship contending level.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, readinuing to develop and getting to at least being
a very good NBA player and perhaps more than that.
You threw out Steph Curry, And that's probably a little ambitious,
but you know, inside the building, I will say, like
they've thrown out some pretty high level targets, not saying
that they know he'll become that, but that it's certainly
not implausible. And even if it's you know, seventy eighty
(12:21):
percent of a guy like that, that's still a really
freaking good player. So long term, he's so important. You
have to figure out how to offset, you know, some
of the defensive deficiencies, you know, not all of it's
actually most of it isn't you know, a lack of effort,
it's just sort of occupational given his size, body type,
those types of things. And yeah, I mean, this was
(12:43):
this was really encouraging the fact that it obviously came
in a winning context. It wasn't like he was just
you know, chucking and putting up stats. But the Rockets
were giving up tons of points and losing. No, they
were undermanned on paper, and they beat the Hawks with
Reed putting up big numbers. I mean, I don't see
how he could have done more like when you go
(13:03):
into the game and ask you know what can be
expected of Read Shepherd. This checked every conceivable box, and
my gut tells me it'll still be Steven Adams starting
in Oklahoma City, if you want to sort of transition
our discussion to that, because as long as Chet and
Hartenstein are both available, I tend to think they'll go
double big. Tuesday was the closest thing to address rehearsal,
(13:24):
and as we talked about on our post game show,
Steven was like plus twenty six in twenty four minutes.
So I still think Stephen, at least given the matchup
to start the year, is going to be the front runner.
But I tell you what, like Read should definitely be
playing at least twenty minutes per game off the bench,
and when the matchups are right, He's proven that this
(13:44):
is not Read Shepherd in the rotation as a developmental thing, no,
Read Shepherd is in the rotation because he is ready
to be a good NBA player this season. And whether
that's a starter, whether it's a part time starter, whether
it's coming off the bench, I think we've seen enough
through the preseason to conclude that. And by the way,
if you go back one last thing, I would point
out if you look at the preseason stats overall, which
(14:07):
Read's been very efficient for this year as a whole,
last year he shot just twenty two percent from three.
I'm pulling this up right now, the twenty four So
even if you want to talk about it's the preseason,
apples to apples. Yeah, last year in the preseason he
averaged six and a half points per game, forty four
(14:28):
percent shooting, and actually eighteen percent from three. So yeah,
even if we want to do the whole apples to apples,
it's the preseason. How hard are these guys going? Well,
even if we adjust for that, what Reid showed you
this preseason is different, not just tonight. The totality of
his level of play, and it justifies the hype of
(14:50):
the Rockets to put on him all off season.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, and we talked about this after the first game.
You know, and we were saying that in the context
of well, Reid wasn't looking amazing, but the Rockets just
they they rave about him.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I would say, a men and Read.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
But you know, behind the scenes are the two guys
that when they drafted them. I'm not talking about just
throughout the season, no knock on any of their player,
but when they draft them, the excitement level was just enormous,
Like they just really believe in Read Shepherd and we
haven't We've seen flashes here and there, but we haven't really.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Seen what they you know, hasn't risen to.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
The level of the you know, praise that they have
given him, And tonight you see what they see. So
there's tremendous potential in Read Shepherd. You know, if he
is a point guard, and you know he showed some
of that tonight.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know, there's that there's a tremendous value in him.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Defensively, we can talk about that another day. There's you know,
but he's off ball, he's been really good there, but offensively,
you know, Read Shepherd has just looked fantastic tonight.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And I was impressed.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
And postgame quote from em Ujoka be a Daniel Lerner
of the Chronicle said the Rockets starting line up might
be fluid game to game to start the season, or
at least until everyone is healthy. Dave, I've read that
as a huge endorsement of Reed, that he's pushed himself
into that conversation because Steven Adams we talked about the
other day. The floor is really high, and I think
(16:14):
it's pretty clear that the Rockets don't want to start
Tory Easton. The only preseason game that Tarry started was
at opener when Kadi sat out. So when we talk
about the uncertainty with the starting lineup, I think it's
the wildly different archetypes, so Reed as a point guard
versus Steven Adams as a center and running the double big,
and the fact that Reid has shown enough to where
(16:35):
that's a viable conversation to be had. I mean, the
Rockets think the world of Steven Adams. We know this,
and deservedly so. He's a very, very good player. So
the fact that Reid has pushed this to where it
is a legitimate topic, even if we both think that
Steven's probably going to start in Oklahoma City based on
the matchup, simply the Rockets being willing and he may
(16:56):
said going into training camp in a perfect role.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Yeah, he'd liked to allow guys to get, you.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Know, consistency of role, the fact that he's willing to
be fluid, that he's seen enough to where it's going
to remain open ended. And maybe part of this is
buying time until Jory Infony Smith comes back, and perhaps if.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
The defense needs a boost, then maybe that's the play.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
But the fact that Reid has done enough that this
is a conversation I think speaks volumes of just how
the twenty twenty five preseason is different than his preseason
a year ago.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And I think we know, at least front office, and
I think it extends to email as well. That's what
they want eventually. When eventually is I don't know. I mean,
you know, when Fred was here, they still thought that
would be in the future, but they believed he was
going to eventually take that torch from Fred, probably mid
season or end of the year, and we'll see how
(17:48):
that plays out.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So yeah, I agree with you. That is a strong endorsement.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Although although one other thing I should point out he
had really good chemistry tonight with Joshua Kogi, So that's
one other thing. To keep in mind if you're playing
a Kogi off the bench, and I think it's pretty
clear as much as I love JD. Davison, and Kogi
is ahead of them. He's more proven, especially on defense,
which is what Emay values. So if those are the
eighth and ninth, ninth and tenth, whatever the case may be,
guys off the bench, then the synergies that those two
have together maybe something to keep in mind, especially if
(18:14):
Aaron Holliday gets phased out, because if you play read more,
then Aaron Holliday's lack of size might be a little
bit of a deficiency. Well, in fact, you can turn
to Joshua Koge who had a big night, and the
fact that defensively he's big enough and dynamic enough, then
he can offset some of the physical limitations with Reid.
That's a little thing to keep in mind as well.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Let's talk a little bit about Tori and then we
could talk about the season coming up. It's on deck
obviously Tuesday, and okay, see, but Tarry Eason is still
without an extension. We did see Keegan Murray sign an extension,
actually signed for more than Jabari Smith Junior, which to
me suggests that Jabari's the bargain. I personally would rather
have Jabari Smith Junior than Keegan Murray. Some people may disagree.
(18:55):
I think I'd much better have Jabari. But yeah, Tarr
Eason is you know, he did not seem super thrilled.
I don't want to read too much into it at
media Day, just certainly believes he wants more respect. I
don't know if that extends into the negotiations necessarily, but
still without a contract. If he doesn't sign an extension,
he will become a restricted free agent at the end
(19:18):
of this year. Where do you think they are right
now with this?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, the last that we've seen as far as the
reporting that's out there, is that both sides were hopeful.
I still think it's slightly more likely than not that
a deal gets done, but it's it's close, like I'm
fifty one forty nine right now, that a deal gets done.
I just think this one is so hard to project
because both sides have added risk. Obviously with the Rockets,
they have to account for the leg injuries the last
(19:45):
two years. With Tari to some extent, it comes down
to is he willing to sort of sell low, which
is what he would be doing if he signed signs
a deal right now, you know, going in when he
has less leverage as opposed to playing out a season,
and if he's healthy able to play back to backs,
maybe he plays better in the playoffs, which was an
(20:05):
issue a year ago. Then in theory he'd be in
a better bargaining position next summer. Now, maybe that's offset
by how cold restricted free agency can be. We saw
that with Jonathan Kaminga and Josh Giddy and the other
guys that went. Cam Thomas in Brooklyn a prime example
of that that went the RFA route this summer. It's
tough to project because, like I think, in a perfect world,
(20:31):
both sides would wait until twenty six because there's a
lot of uncertainty. The Rockets could feel better about their investment.
Tari could feel better that he's not selling at a
low point, that he's actually going to them and trying
to sell himself when his market value is is high.
But there's certainly value and stability for Tari. He's had
those issues that might want him, that might prompt him
(20:53):
to want the security. And from a Rocket standpoint, look,
we know they want to lock in those future figures
as soon as possible because they're concerned about not the
luxury tax, but the first and second aprons and everything
that comes from, you know, keeping a contending team together
in NBA and how challenging it is under.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
The current CBA.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So both sides, you know, there's reasons to wait, and
there's also reasons to get it done early. And if
you take Tari's words at face value, his stuff about
wanting more minutes and more opportunities, then that might tip
you towards believing that he's okay with waiting. But I
still tend to think there's some posturing there. Like I
agree with you, you can't necessarily take those at face value,
(21:33):
or at least not in the context of negotiations. And
so even though you can read those and if you
squint hard enough, think he's you know, from the Freibenfleet
tree of bet on yourself, I don't know. I still
tend to think the leaks that both sides were hopeful
were there for a reason. And I also think what
pushes me over the edge of thinking a deal gets done, well,
(21:54):
there are two things. The biggest reason there's been all
this optimism about a Kevin Durant extension, you know, Kevin's
basically that he sees himself extending here. The Rockets obviously
want to keep him around. He's still in all stair.
There's a reason you make the trade. Yet a deal
hasn't gotten done. And certainly Kevin's a guy who's had
plenty of injuries. So why hasn't a deal gotten done?
If Kevin wants it to get done, obviously the Rockets
(22:14):
want to have him around. Kevin would love security. The
most plausible reason that a Kevin Gurant extension hasn't gotten
done is because there's basically an understanding of let's see
what the salary cap picture is after signing Tarry Eathen,
and will give you whatever we have that's left over,
whatever we have that's left over in the context of,
you know, until you bump up against the first or
second apron or whatever the case may be. So the
(22:35):
fact that KD hasn't signed an extension yet makes me
think that the Rockets are hopeful that something may be
coming that gives them more clarity in the near future,
because I don't think any want to wait on KD
until next off season. I think the Kevin deal is
going to get done soon, no matter what ANDLD they
have held off because they're hopeful that the Tari situation
(22:55):
is going to come to ahead in the coming days.
So that's the biggest piece that tells me that the
Rockets are still hopeful they can get something done here.
The other piece, and this is a small one, but
whether you sign Tari now or next off season, it
has a lot to do with whether he can be
included in trades because if you sign him now, it's
basically the poison pill year because he counts what he's
(23:18):
his outgoing salary is is different than the incoming salary,
and so it's very different. It's very difficult for the
math to work on a deal. We saw this with
Jalen Green and all prenching in last year. But the
flip side is if you do a deal now, he
is fully eligible to be traded next off season, just
as we saw with Jalen Green. The reason Jalen Green
could be used as a certer piece of the Kevin
(23:38):
Durant trade because you did the extension before last off season.
If you hadn't done that, Jalen couldn't have been in
the deal without his consent because he'd be a restricted
free agent. So It sort of comes down to if
you think you need a bigger trade and you know
Giannis is at the top of the list, but there's
obviously others you know well below that. But do you
think you might need tari as a trade piece at
(24:00):
the twenty twenty six deadline or in the twenty twenty
six offseason.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
That's the debate.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I kind of lean towards the twenty six off season,
which would tip the scales towards doing a deal now.
So these trade eligible next offseason, not inn RFA, simply
because most big names, most notably Kevin this past offseason,
the really big names, it seems like they wait these
days until the off season to force a move. You
haven't seen that many huge names get dealt at the
trade deadline. Perhaps Jimmy Butler is the one guy the
(24:27):
last couple of years, and Jimmy had some baggage and
is in his mid thirties, So if you're honest or
something like that comes available, I tend.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
To think it'd be more in the twenty six off season.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Rather than the deadline, and so that might tip you
a little bit towards doing a deal now as well.
I do think it's interesting what a deal might look like.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
ESPN.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah, they had Bobby Marks and Tim Bond. They had
ESPN's Bobby Marks and Tim bon Thomps do an article
that posted earlier today looking at the numbers, and they
did the pros and cons for all the you know,
the twenty twenty two first run pay are extension eligible,
and they the deal they threw out for Chari was
four years, eighty million. That's twenty in average annual value,
(25:08):
which you know, I think is reasonable. It's above the
MLE but not a crazy number. I think it could
fit within the within the long term puzzle. You could
make that work. Anything above twenty for a bench player
gets a little high, and that's something that Bobby Marx
was pointing out. I actually wonder, and this is not sourced.
I could actually see this being a shorter deal than
(25:28):
that simply because of all the risk. I could see
it sort of being like the Jalen Green deal, where
it's two or three years. Maybe there's an option in there,
maybe it's like three for sixty five. You give a
slight bit more and average annual value, but fewer guaranteed years,
and then you you sort of have the best of
both worlds, and that if you're Atara, you get some
financial security. But if it turns out that you know
(25:51):
you are capable of a bigger role and you take
advantage of these more minutes, then you get your next contract sooner,
and so you can potentially get more money overall and
form a rocket stamp point. You protect yourself some from
the injury risk. We know what's going on with his
leg the last two years, because you're not on the
books for you know, four or five years out. So
that's where I tend to think this goes. I don't
think this is like Jabari. I've seen some say, well,
(26:14):
Tari to this point has been a better player than Jabari.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
A I'm not sure that's entirely true.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
I mean, if you squint hard enough and you look
at strictly the permanent numbers and the efficiency, you can
make the argument. But you have to consider certainly the
injury risk, the availability, and also how does it translate
to the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Let's be one, Jabari was a very good player in
the playoffs. Tari was not.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
So I think saying Tari is better than Jabari is
a stretch. I've seen some argue that and say, well,
Jabari got you know, five for one twenty, so Tari
should be at least at that ballpark. Well, I don't
think he's gonna get five years based on the injury risk.
And secondly, if he really does believe that, I don't
(26:56):
know that it behooves him to settle for a deal
in that tier if he thinks he can play his
way into something bigger. So I tend to think this
might be a little bit shorter. Bobby proposed four for eighty.
I could see three for sixty, three for fifty five,
three for sixty five something in that ballpark. Maybe there's
a team option something that is a little closer to
(27:17):
Jalen Green than it is to Jabari or all Per
in Shangoon in terms of sort of the Rockets extension templates,
because I just think Tari's got a fairly unique risk profile.
That not saying he's the same player as Jalen Green,
but I do think there's some of the there's some
similar you know, risk versus reward, boom versus bus considerations
to have.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, I think you touched on what I've been kind
of wondering, is did the Jabari extensions so early cause
any problems. And again I'm speculating here. I haven't heard that,
but I just think you know, you touched on it already.
But he may think to himself, Hey, in the last
three years, I've basically outproduced Jabari. Jabari is definitely a
future potentially. He's younger than Tari. Tari was more plug
(27:56):
and play for what he does. His strengths werel ready
out of the box. And I think that you know,
certainly could play a role. I think if it's sixteen
to eighteen million, you know, annual value, I think you'd
be loving it. It's a bargain. It's probably going to
be more like nineteen to twenty one, which.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Would be reasonable. I'm sure he's I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Sure he wants something close to Jabari as far as
annual value. That's just my guess. We'll see how this
plays out. But he has to look at it as well,
like he has this leg issue. It has caused some problems.
Hasn't been able to play back back to backs.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
You know. That's that to me is a give or take.
And I think you.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Basically broke it down nicely in the sense that this
might be something where he takes what he can get
now in a shorter window and he can revisit this
down the line. But yeah, they have until five o'clock
I believe on is that Eastern on Tuesday.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
You know it's five o'clock Central on Monday, because it's
one day before the regular season over and spoiler alert,
Dave and I have talked offline. I think the idea is,
you know, we'll pop in and do one of these
lives shortly after the deadline, because one way or another,
there's going to be stuff to talk about along with
the the preview of the Rockets Thunder regular season opener
(29:05):
the next night.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Absolutely and rockularly, as you just pointed out, Rockets to
open the season.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Okay, see on.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Tuesday, we think and you highlighted last game that will
probably see the double big starting. They they really did
well against OKAC and we'll talk more about that game
on Monday. But I do want to point out Sheng
Gun has had his way with Check. Check has been
fine on the other end. He's been hitting threes, but
he can't defend Shangoon. So I do expect the Thunder
(29:31):
to adjust some way because Check just doesn't have the
sand in his pants. To pull an old reference to
body up with Shngun. You need to defend Shngon. You
need a strong body, somebody who can keep them five,
you know, outside of five feet from the basket, and
that's not Chet, and they.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Would normally use Hertenstein that role. But then they you know,
Chest's not going to keep Adams.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
From feasting on the offensive glass either, so they have
a problem there. I'm gonna be very curious to see
if dort or Case and Wallace actually defends Shangoon. That
seems maybe like you know, he would feast, But we've
seen some guys I look at Grant Williams in the
past have success against defending Shangoon just by literally just
keeping him away from the basket. I'm gonna see what
(30:14):
Okaysee does to adjust. But they will be one man down.
Most likely Jaylen Williams will be out for that game.
At least it looks like he's dealing with recovering from
risk surgery and has not been able to shoot with
that hand yet. So Rockets should have a good opportunity
there to take that game. That's going to be the
most fascinating thing to me. This is the championship team
that won it last year and the Rockets have you know,
(30:37):
they've been hit or miss with them, but they're the
team to beat in the West. Do the Rockets legitimately
have something that they cannot handle and what does okay
se do to adjust?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, especially if Jalen Williams is out, this is a
really good time to sort of show that you're on
that tier because it's not like the Rockets are at
full strength themselves. Obviously there's no Doory Andfinny Smith part
in Fleet's probably out for the year, but the Rockets
aren't ruling him out by any stretch, So it's not
like the Rockets are at full strength. And if anything,
the Rockets are the team that has more upward mobility
(31:08):
because they're still integrating Kevin Durant, whereas the Thunder are
bringing back largely the team they had last season. So
if Jalen Williams is out, it's not as simple as saying, well,
the the Rockets are finished product and the Thunder are
going to get better. No, if the Rockets can go
in there in Oklahoma City on rad Night and compete,
let alone win. Even if this is a close game
in the final minutes, then you have to feel really
(31:29):
good about this team. And you know you mentioned Shinggoon,
the two guys I'm actually looking at the most closely
are Kevin and Jabbari. Kevin because of the obvious OKC storyline,
but I also think if there's no Jalen Williams, then
the Thunder are going to have to try smaller guys
at the two and the three more often. You mentioned
Cason Wallace, I think you'd see Alex Caruso play more,
(31:50):
and these are guys that, while very good defensively, if
you're six to eleven and have a high launch point
and can shoot very well, you can just shoot over
a lot.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Of these guys.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
To me, this is prime for a matchup where if
the Thunder go with with their most acule lineup that's
you know, best defensively on paper, the Rockets are going
to have a size advantage. And you know, it's easy
to think of that in terms of the big Shingoon
and Steven Adams, but I actually think you'll notice it
more on the wing because I think you'll see Kevin
(32:21):
and Shabari get some matchups where they have a pretty
clear heighted manage and if they're making their shots, that
they can just rise and fire over guys. And yeah,
I agree with you, the Rocket should have a real chance,
especially because you know, I think to start the game,
clearly it'll be a men on SGA. But I thought
last year, if you go back and look at especially
early in the year when the Rockets were fully healthy,
(32:42):
it was actually Tari Easton when the Trips were down,
that the Rockets trusted as their SGA defender at the
point of attack. That's how good Tari can be when
he's right. Clearly they think that SGA is a good
matchup for him. And so if you can have Tari
do some of the heavy lifting against SGA, let a
men save some of his shoes for the offensive end
of the floor, to me, that's sort of the perfect
(33:02):
tag team to you know, you're not going to shut
him down by any stretch, but just keep his productivity
within reason not insane efficiency.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
To where hopefully the Rockets have enough on the other
end to win out.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
That's going to be Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Well, if you as you pointed out, we'll probably do
a live show on Monday and talk a little bit
about you know, the Tari extension hopefully or the decision
to not extend him, and then we'll gear up for
the games. I'm excited. I'm really pumped up about the year.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I'm this is. They're all going to matter from here
on out.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I mean, today's game was fun to watch what Reed
Shepherd can do, but kind of pointless in the grand
scheme watching, you know, Crawford and these guys, no disrespect
to them, just knowing that they're not going to be
playing in the games that matter really, So I'm really
looking forward to, you know, this chess match that's going
to start Tuesday night against Okay.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
See, yeah, absolutely, and then Monday. You know, either way,
I hope an extension gets done, but even if it doesn't,
then that sort of gives you a tell as to
what the future might look like, what the options are
in terms of the trade market. If a deal doesn't
get done, he's more eligible to get doubt during this
upcoming season, so there could be some new implications there.
So bottom line, Monday, one way or another, I think
(34:10):
we're going to have something to talk about.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Absolutely, Ben, appreciate you doing this.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Rockets finished the preseason four and oh just to open
the season against the World Champs Okayse on Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Thanks everybody, y'all have a great night.
Here with the president of the JD. Davison fan Club.
That's Ben Dubos.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
You know him well at USA today and writes clutch
fans as well. Ben Rockets complete the sweep of the
preseason four and oh and we're on to the regular season.
What were your thoughts tonight? Obviously several players sat out.
I mean, you're talking about seven guys, key guys, Papella Adams,
all the way down to the starters. We saw basically
(00:28):
reached Shepherd tonight, and he played really, really well.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
What were your thoughts?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Well, it's not very the lead. The highlight was clearly
the JD. Davidson facial in the fourth quarter.
Speaker 4 (00:37):
No, I'm kidding.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
The storyline was obviously reached Shepherd because he went up
there basically with maybe one other rotation player and Joshua
Kogi and a Kogi's a fringe rotation player, ninth or
tenth on your death chart against a Hawk's team that
and only started Trey Young at point guard, a perennial
All Star of the Eastern Conference, but played most of
its regulars. I mean, Chris tapsperzingis put up twenty three
(01:00):
and thirteen, and I want to say, like twenty eight minutes.
I mean, the Hawks took this game, at least from
a rotation standpoint, pretty seriously. And Quinn Snyder is a
good coach, and the Rockets just outclassed them. And read
Shepherd leading the way certainly statistically, but I think to
see Reid have that type of game when he had
(01:20):
the freedom, that's what I keep going back to his
postgame interview with Vanessa Richardson, five words stood out to me,
go out and play free, And of course he's talking
about the green light he had tonight because the Rockets
only had eight players, they rested most of their big
guys because it's the final game of the preseason. I
guess it didn't really matter to you, Maridoka, that that
a four to oh preseason record was on the line,
(01:42):
but they ended up getting it anyway, in large part
due to reach Shepherd. And I just think, you know,
you combine what we saw from Reed tonight with the
games he started last year when even as a rookie,
even with his flaws, he averaged like I want to say,
twenty points in five assists per game on good efficiency,
and I think it's pretty clear when Reid has a
green light he's gonna put up numbers. He's a good player.
(02:04):
He got a ton of steals. I think, what six
tonight do you have the boxing for?
Speaker 1 (02:09):
I ha, I do had four, but maybe he picked
up a couple at the end.
Speaker 3 (02:12):
I thought he did. Okay, okay, but maybe I'm conflating
the steels in the blox.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
But yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
The point is he makes plays on both ends. Sure,
he's a little small, he's gonna get beaten from time
to time, and he's gonna get in foul trouble.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
Against some bigger guards.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
But he's also going to make some home run type
plays as well, and the hope is that those offset
and when he plays with freedom, he's a really good player. Now,
how does it contribute to winning? How can you put
an entire team around him? I don't know, but you
don't have to have the answers at twenty one years old.
I think the bigger takeaway here. I saw so many
(02:47):
offseason draft reviews of the twenty twenty four draft class
where these experts dropped Reid to seventh or eighth something
like that in a redraft, and I think that's absolutely
silly because the guys that are being moved ahead of him,
for the most part, are putting up volume stats on
mediocre to bad teams. I don't want this to come
(03:08):
across as criticism of Stefan Castle, who was a deserving
Rookie of the Year winner for the Spurs last year.
He put up big numbers on his Furs scene that
won thirty games, played half the year without Victor Winmbanyama,
and had basically an unlimited green light. We still don't
know how he's going to produce in the context of
a winning team and how it's all going to translate.
(03:30):
He's still figuring it out and so read not playing
much the limited numbers that we saw. This was a
winning team where there are actual expectations, and so it's
too soon to say exactly what he's going to be
in the future. I'm not trying to take a victory lap.
But what I do think we can say confidently is
that if Reid was drafted into the normal situation that
(03:52):
a top three pick in the draft would be, I
think we're having an entirely different conversation about Reed Shepherds
an NBA player, because I think he if he would
have played twenty five or thirty minutes per game, last
year and had a green light, he puts up big
numbers and people look at him as maybe a star
in the making.
Speaker 4 (04:08):
We're having a different.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Conversation simply because of the team he was drafted to,
and again, way too soon to take a victory lap.
This is the preseason. All those caveats are completely valid.
But this is also why you shouldn't be too despondent
by his numbers are lack thereof as a rookie. No,
he's still developing, and if you put him on another
team where he had a green light, he'd put.
Speaker 4 (04:31):
Up big numbers all the time.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
And obviously, you know the question in Houston is going
to be how does that translate to a smaller role,
because especially with his archetype, there's going to be some
nights where he's misses his first three or four shots,
and if he's a backup playing only twelve or fifteen minutes,
he's not gonna want to risk tanking the game by
himself going one of nine, one of ten, something like that,
So he might get a little bit timid. That was
an issue I thought when he was a backup point
(04:53):
guard last year as a rookie, he's improved some between
year one and year two. The Rockets have both publicly
and privately behind the scenes, been extremely positive about his
off season for months. So some of it could be
physical improvements, but I also think there's a mental side
that you know, it is delicate for him to sort
of find the right balance between that go out and
play free mantra that he had tonight and the discipline
(05:17):
that comes with being a rotation player that might be
on a tighter leash only playing fifteen to twenty minutes.
So again, all valid questions, no victory laps, But what
I will say this is proof of concept. There is
no reason why if you were excited about Reed Shepherd
when the Rockets drafted him in June of twenty twenty four,
there is no reason for you to be less excited
about him today. The reasons he hasn't put up numbers,
(05:38):
the reasons he hasn't played relative to the other young
guys in this draft class, are simply because of how
rare the Houston situation is picking that high in the draft.
And so however you felt about Reid last summer, you
should still feel at least that good today in my opinion,
and today was proof of concept.
Speaker 4 (05:53):
For that.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, that's a great point. And you know, you and
I hadn't actually discussed. We just went cold into this
and hadn't exchange thoughts. But one of the things I
had actually written down was it's clear to me if
Reid had been drafted in the early Silas era team that.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
He'd be putting up numbers.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Now, this is today, was the best he's looked since
late last season as far as what we've seen. Just
for whatever reason, it's been a mixed bag the first
three preseason games and Summer League. You can throw it out,
but he didn't play particularly well in Summer League or
didn't thrive like we had hoped he would.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Although it was only like a game in a quarter
or a game in three quarters, so a little bit
of a sample size issue there, but fair exactly, it.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Wasn't It wasn't much.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
But I think it's very clear that if he had
been on those Silas era teams like you're, you know,
Jalen Shangoun Jabari, you know, you get drafted, you play
big minutes, he'd be putting up numbers without question.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
We saw this last year.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Okay, see when the Rockets rested those guys down the stretch,
he played really well. He's done this consistently when he's
been given as you said, free reign. So yeah, it's
a different story if he gets drafted by a lottery
team and you just throw them out there to play.
Speaker 1 (06:58):
There are things to you know, knits.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
To pick with Reed Shepherd, But today he played exceptionally well.
You know, I'm not saying he is this player, because
anytime you throw a name out there, it you know,
people will take the whole thing. But just when I
watched him defensively, just with his hands and the way
he kind of stripped the basketball out there pretty consistently,
(07:21):
was in the passing lanes, it just reminds me a
lot of John Stockton. And I'm old, you know, back
when I used to watch Stockton just being sort of
the undersized, a little bit shorter arms, but quick and
just basically got his hand on the basketball quite a bit. Today,
as you know, he's pointing out four steals, three blocks,
and had some really you know, highlight reel plays. I
(07:42):
mean the strip of Trey and then go the other
way and hit the triple. He just you know, like
I said, there's plenty of things that you can look
at with Reid that he's going to have to grow, like,
you know, just the on ball defense with his size,
just you know, teams are going to challenge him and
they're going to test him in his second year. But offensively,
if he's given the green light, he's already a shooter
(08:05):
in my opinion, on the level at least as far
as what you're looking at with a tray or a
Steph Curry. And I'm not saying these Steph, but he
could shoot those shots. If he gets, you know, five
feet beyond the three point line and you give him
the green light, he can put up points in a hurry.
So it's interesting because this is you know, I don't
know if he's going to start in this next game.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
I don't think he will, but you're talking.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
About your seventh eighth guy right now on this team,
and he looks really good.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Yeah, absolutely, And I thought it was noteworthy then both haves.
He actually got off to a slow start. I don't
have the box right in front of me, but I
think it was three four or something like that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I thought he was one for three today and then
he hit seven of his next year.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
Yeah, yeah, in both halves, he sort of got himself going.
In the first half. There were a couple of midies
that he hit in quick succession, and then before you
knew it, it was one of those explosions like we
saw in the summer League game against the Clippers in
the second half where he puts up shots from distance
so quick that all it takes is a good two
or three minute stretch and you know, you blink, and
(09:05):
the stat line overall is just ridiculously good.
Speaker 4 (09:08):
And so the challenge is.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
Going to be if he's not playing twenty five to
thirty minutes, and even if he does play mid twenties minutes,
the green light he has playing alongside Houston Rockets starting
level players, not.
Speaker 4 (09:23):
The group tonight.
Speaker 3 (09:24):
No disrespect to those who were out there and played well,
but for the most part, this was the the ima
Udoka culture show. When you look at and you know,
his guys did come in and make threes, but Isaiah Crawford,
Cameron Matthews, Caban Harris, those types. You know, one little
silver lining I would throw out there. For all the
concern about defense in the preseason, the Rockets are the
type of team that, unlike most NBA teams that suffer
(09:46):
defensively over the grind off eighty two games, because inevitably
some guys get hurt.
Speaker 4 (09:50):
Actually, the Rockets might be a little bit better.
Speaker 3 (09:52):
As they go through the grind because inevitably, when guys
need time off or get hurt, then there's a clear
type at the end of that bench. You know, the
two way guys, but also Jayshon Tate, Dori, Anthony Smith.
Those guys are going to be back in the relatively
near future. And so the further down you go to
the bench, they all play really well defensively, so they're
certainly going to hold up on that end. And then
(10:14):
if they hit threes the way the Rockets did tonight,
I think what nineteen overall.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
I did not actually note the number of threes that
hit him nineteen to forty.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Eight, you're right, yeah, I mean they were making it volume,
and so that makes it all the easier for Reed
to do his thing. And you know, Red's always going
to be a guy, at least at this point in
his career. Now, maybe you know, as the years progress,
he sort of develops the way actually Fred did the
last few years, gets thicker and more physical. But for now,
you're going to have to hope that Read individually. You know,
(10:44):
he's going to get beaten sometimes, but that he has
you know, the instincts, the quick hands to you know,
make enough plays to offset the low lights, if you will.
But another big part of it is you just have
to hope that the other players, the other four guys
that are out there with them, can help make up
for some of those deficiencies. And that was one thing tonight,
even with it being the end of the bench, guys well,
(11:05):
they can all play really good defense, and so that
made it easier for sort of Read to just hone
in on doing what he does best and letting the
other guys if there are any messages to clean up,
they have the ability to do that. I think, you know,
this was an Emai Udoka culture game, and in that context,
for a team that last year had clear offensive deficiencies,
(11:28):
Reads sort of the perfect guy to bring along and
increasingly take on a bigger role as the years progress.
I mean, in the short term you have Kevin Durant,
but in some ways, Kevin Durant is a short term stimulus.
You know, he's something to take you to that next
level now and to get this team from you know,
mediocre to good offensively hopefully mediocre to great, but time
(11:49):
will tell on that. But then in the long run,
and we're talking you know, three, four or five years out,
you know, can the Rockets sustained themselves at.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
A championship contending level.
Speaker 3 (11:58):
Yeah, readinuing to develop and getting to at least being
a very good NBA player and perhaps more than that.
You threw out Steph Curry, And that's probably a little ambitious,
but you know, inside the building, I will say, like
they've thrown out some pretty high level targets, not saying
that they know he'll become that, but that it's certainly
not implausible. And even if it's you know, seventy eighty
(12:21):
percent of a guy like that, that's still a really
freaking good player. So long term, he's so important. You
have to figure out how to offset, you know, some
of the defensive deficiencies, you know, not all of it's
actually most of it isn't you know, a lack of effort,
it's just sort of occupational given his size, body type,
those types of things. And yeah, I mean, this was
(12:43):
this was really encouraging the fact that it obviously came
in a winning context. It wasn't like he was just
you know, chucking and putting up stats. But the Rockets
were giving up tons of points and losing. No, they
were undermanned on paper, and they beat the Hawks with
Reed putting up big numbers. I mean, I don't see
how he could have done more like when you go
(13:03):
into the game and ask you know what can be
expected of Read Shepherd. This checked every conceivable box, and
my gut tells me it'll still be Steven Adams starting
in Oklahoma City, if you want to sort of transition
our discussion to that, because as long as Chet and
Hartenstein are both available, I tend to think they'll go
double big. Tuesday was the closest thing to address rehearsal,
(13:24):
and as we talked about on our post game show,
Steven was like plus twenty six in twenty four minutes.
So I still think Stephen, at least given the matchup
to start the year, is going to be the front runner.
But I tell you what, like Read should definitely be
playing at least twenty minutes per game off the bench,
and when the matchups are right, He's proven that this
(13:44):
is not Read Shepherd in the rotation as a developmental thing, no,
Read Shepherd is in the rotation because he is ready
to be a good NBA player this season. And whether
that's a starter, whether it's a part time starter, whether
it's coming off the bench, I think we've seen enough
through the preseason to conclude that. And by the way,
if you go back one last thing, I would point
out if you look at the preseason stats overall, which
(14:07):
Read's been very efficient for this year as a whole,
last year he shot just twenty two percent from three.
I'm pulling this up right now, the twenty four So
even if you want to talk about it's the preseason,
apples to apples. Yeah, last year in the preseason he
averaged six and a half points per game, forty four
(14:28):
percent shooting, and actually eighteen percent from three. So yeah,
even if we want to do the whole apples to apples,
it's the preseason. How hard are these guys going? Well,
even if we adjust for that, what Reid showed you
this preseason is different, not just tonight. The totality of
his level of play, and it justifies the hype of
(14:50):
the Rockets to put on him all off season.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
Yeah, and we talked about this after the first game.
You know, and we were saying that in the context
of well, Reid wasn't looking amazing, but the Rockets just
they they rave about him.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
I would say, a men and Read.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
But you know, behind the scenes are the two guys
that when they drafted them. I'm not talking about just
throughout the season, no knock on any of their player,
but when they draft them, the excitement level was just enormous,
Like they just really believe in Read Shepherd and we
haven't We've seen flashes here and there, but we haven't really.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
Seen what they you know, hasn't risen to.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
The level of the you know, praise that they have
given him, And tonight you see what they see. So
there's tremendous potential in Read Shepherd. You know, if he
is a point guard, and you know he showed some
of that tonight.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
You know, there's that there's a tremendous value in him.
Speaker 2 (15:41):
Defensively, we can talk about that another day. There's you know,
but he's off ball, he's been really good there, but offensively,
you know, Read Shepherd has just looked fantastic tonight.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
And I was impressed.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
And postgame quote from em Ujoka be a Daniel Lerner
of the Chronicle said the Rockets starting line up might
be fluid game to game to start the season, or
at least until everyone is healthy. Dave, I've read that
as a huge endorsement of Reed, that he's pushed himself
into that conversation because Steven Adams we talked about the
other day. The floor is really high, and I think
(16:14):
it's pretty clear that the Rockets don't want to start
Tory Easton. The only preseason game that Tarry started was
at opener when Kadi sat out. So when we talk
about the uncertainty with the starting lineup, I think it's
the wildly different archetypes, so Reed as a point guard
versus Steven Adams as a center and running the double big,
and the fact that Reid has shown enough to where
(16:35):
that's a viable conversation to be had. I mean, the
Rockets think the world of Steven Adams. We know this,
and deservedly so. He's a very, very good player. So
the fact that Reid has pushed this to where it
is a legitimate topic, even if we both think that
Steven's probably going to start in Oklahoma City based on
the matchup, simply the Rockets being willing and he may
(16:56):
said going into training camp in a perfect role.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Yeah, he'd liked to allow guys to get, you.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Know, consistency of role, the fact that he's willing to
be fluid, that he's seen enough to where it's going
to remain open ended. And maybe part of this is
buying time until Jory Infony Smith comes back, and perhaps if.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
The defense needs a boost, then maybe that's the play.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
But the fact that Reid has done enough that this
is a conversation I think speaks volumes of just how
the twenty twenty five preseason is different than his preseason
a year ago.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
And I think we know, at least front office, and
I think it extends to email as well. That's what
they want eventually. When eventually is I don't know. I mean,
you know, when Fred was here, they still thought that
would be in the future, but they believed he was
going to eventually take that torch from Fred, probably mid
season or end of the year, and we'll see how
(17:48):
that plays out.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
So yeah, I agree with you. That is a strong endorsement.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Although although one other thing I should point out he
had really good chemistry tonight with Joshua Kogi, So that's
one other thing. To keep in mind if you're playing
a Kogi off the bench, and I think it's pretty
clear as much as I love JD. Davison, and Kogi
is ahead of them. He's more proven, especially on defense,
which is what Emay values. So if those are the
eighth and ninth, ninth and tenth, whatever the case may be,
guys off the bench, then the synergies that those two
have together maybe something to keep in mind, especially if
(18:14):
Aaron Holliday gets phased out, because if you play read more,
then Aaron Holliday's lack of size might be a little
bit of a deficiency. Well, in fact, you can turn
to Joshua Koge who had a big night, and the
fact that defensively he's big enough and dynamic enough, then
he can offset some of the physical limitations with Reid.
That's a little thing to keep in mind as well.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Let's talk a little bit about Tori and then we
could talk about the season coming up. It's on deck
obviously Tuesday, and okay, see, but Tarry Eason is still
without an extension. We did see Keegan Murray sign an extension,
actually signed for more than Jabari Smith Junior, which to
me suggests that Jabari's the bargain. I personally would rather
have Jabari Smith Junior than Keegan Murray. Some people may disagree.
(18:55):
I think I'd much better have Jabari. But yeah, Tarr
Eason is you know, he did not seem super thrilled.
I don't want to read too much into it at
media Day, just certainly believes he wants more respect. I
don't know if that extends into the negotiations necessarily, but
still without a contract. If he doesn't sign an extension,
he will become a restricted free agent at the end
(19:18):
of this year. Where do you think they are right
now with this?
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, the last that we've seen as far as the
reporting that's out there, is that both sides were hopeful.
I still think it's slightly more likely than not that
a deal gets done, but it's it's close, like I'm
fifty one forty nine right now, that a deal gets done.
I just think this one is so hard to project
because both sides have added risk. Obviously with the Rockets,
they have to account for the leg injuries the last
(19:45):
two years. With Tari to some extent, it comes down
to is he willing to sort of sell low, which
is what he would be doing if he signed signs
a deal right now, you know, going in when he
has less leverage as opposed to playing out a season,
and if he's healthy able to play back to backs,
maybe he plays better in the playoffs, which was an
(20:05):
issue a year ago. Then in theory he'd be in
a better bargaining position next summer. Now, maybe that's offset
by how cold restricted free agency can be. We saw
that with Jonathan Kaminga and Josh Giddy and the other
guys that went. Cam Thomas in Brooklyn a prime example
of that that went the RFA route this summer. It's
tough to project because, like I think, in a perfect world,
(20:31):
both sides would wait until twenty six because there's a
lot of uncertainty. The Rockets could feel better about their investment.
Tari could feel better that he's not selling at a
low point, that he's actually going to them and trying
to sell himself when his market value is is high.
But there's certainly value and stability for Tari. He's had
those issues that might want him, that might prompt him
(20:53):
to want the security. And from a Rocket standpoint, look,
we know they want to lock in those future figures
as soon as possible because they're concerned about not the
luxury tax, but the first and second aprons and everything
that comes from, you know, keeping a contending team together
in NBA and how challenging it is under.
Speaker 4 (21:09):
The current CBA.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
So both sides, you know, there's reasons to wait, and
there's also reasons to get it done early. And if
you take Tari's words at face value, his stuff about
wanting more minutes and more opportunities, then that might tip
you towards believing that he's okay with waiting. But I
still tend to think there's some posturing there. Like I
agree with you, you can't necessarily take those at face value,
(21:33):
or at least not in the context of negotiations. And
so even though you can read those and if you
squint hard enough, think he's you know, from the Freibenfleet
tree of bet on yourself, I don't know. I still
tend to think the leaks that both sides were hopeful
were there for a reason. And I also think what
pushes me over the edge of thinking a deal gets done, well,
(21:54):
there are two things. The biggest reason there's been all
this optimism about a Kevin Durant extension, you know, Kevin's
basically that he sees himself extending here. The Rockets obviously
want to keep him around. He's still in all stair.
There's a reason you make the trade. Yet a deal
hasn't gotten done. And certainly Kevin's a guy who's had
plenty of injuries. So why hasn't a deal gotten done?
If Kevin wants it to get done, obviously the Rockets
(22:14):
want to have him around. Kevin would love security. The
most plausible reason that a Kevin Gurant extension hasn't gotten
done is because there's basically an understanding of let's see
what the salary cap picture is after signing Tarry Eathen,
and will give you whatever we have that's left over,
whatever we have that's left over in the context of,
you know, until you bump up against the first or
second apron or whatever the case may be. So the
(22:35):
fact that KD hasn't signed an extension yet makes me
think that the Rockets are hopeful that something may be
coming that gives them more clarity in the near future,
because I don't think any want to wait on KD
until next off season. I think the Kevin deal is
going to get done soon, no matter what ANDLD they
have held off because they're hopeful that the Tari situation
(22:55):
is going to come to ahead in the coming days.
So that's the biggest piece that tells me that the
Rockets are still hopeful they can get something done here.
The other piece, and this is a small one, but
whether you sign Tari now or next off season, it
has a lot to do with whether he can be
included in trades because if you sign him now, it's
basically the poison pill year because he counts what he's
(23:18):
his outgoing salary is is different than the incoming salary,
and so it's very different. It's very difficult for the
math to work on a deal. We saw this with
Jalen Green and all prenching in last year. But the
flip side is if you do a deal now, he
is fully eligible to be traded next off season, just
as we saw with Jalen Green. The reason Jalen Green
could be used as a certer piece of the Kevin
(23:38):
Durant trade because you did the extension before last off season.
If you hadn't done that, Jalen couldn't have been in
the deal without his consent because he'd be a restricted
free agent. So It sort of comes down to if
you think you need a bigger trade and you know
Giannis is at the top of the list, but there's
obviously others you know well below that. But do you
think you might need tari as a trade piece at
(24:00):
the twenty twenty six deadline or in the twenty twenty
six offseason.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
That's the debate.
Speaker 3 (24:04):
I kind of lean towards the twenty six off season,
which would tip the scales towards doing a deal now.
So these trade eligible next offseason, not inn RFA, simply
because most big names, most notably Kevin this past offseason,
the really big names, it seems like they wait these
days until the off season to force a move. You
haven't seen that many huge names get dealt at the
trade deadline. Perhaps Jimmy Butler is the one guy the
(24:27):
last couple of years, and Jimmy had some baggage and
is in his mid thirties, So if you're honest or
something like that comes available, I tend.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
To think it'd be more in the twenty six off season.
Speaker 3 (24:35):
Rather than the deadline, and so that might tip you
a little bit towards doing a deal now as well.
I do think it's interesting what a deal might look like.
Speaker 4 (24:45):
ESPN.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah, they had Bobby Marks and Tim Bond. They had
ESPN's Bobby Marks and Tim bon Thomps do an article
that posted earlier today looking at the numbers, and they
did the pros and cons for all the you know,
the twenty twenty two first run pay are extension eligible,
and they the deal they threw out for Chari was
four years, eighty million. That's twenty in average annual value,
(25:08):
which you know, I think is reasonable. It's above the
MLE but not a crazy number. I think it could
fit within the within the long term puzzle. You could
make that work. Anything above twenty for a bench player
gets a little high, and that's something that Bobby Marx
was pointing out. I actually wonder, and this is not sourced.
I could actually see this being a shorter deal than
(25:28):
that simply because of all the risk. I could see
it sort of being like the Jalen Green deal, where
it's two or three years. Maybe there's an option in there,
maybe it's like three for sixty five. You give a
slight bit more and average annual value, but fewer guaranteed years,
and then you you sort of have the best of
both worlds, and that if you're Atara, you get some
financial security. But if it turns out that you know
(25:51):
you are capable of a bigger role and you take
advantage of these more minutes, then you get your next contract sooner,
and so you can potentially get more money overall and
form a rocket stamp point. You protect yourself some from
the injury risk. We know what's going on with his
leg the last two years, because you're not on the
books for you know, four or five years out. So
that's where I tend to think this goes. I don't
think this is like Jabari. I've seen some say, well,
(26:14):
Tari to this point has been a better player than Jabari.
Speaker 4 (26:18):
A I'm not sure that's entirely true.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
I mean, if you squint hard enough and you look
at strictly the permanent numbers and the efficiency, you can
make the argument. But you have to consider certainly the
injury risk, the availability, and also how does it translate
to the playoffs.
Speaker 4 (26:32):
Let's be one, Jabari was a very good player in
the playoffs. Tari was not.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
So I think saying Tari is better than Jabari is
a stretch. I've seen some argue that and say, well,
Jabari got you know, five for one twenty, so Tari
should be at least at that ballpark. Well, I don't
think he's gonna get five years based on the injury risk.
And secondly, if he really does believe that, I don't
(26:56):
know that it behooves him to settle for a deal
in that tier if he thinks he can play his
way into something bigger. So I tend to think this
might be a little bit shorter. Bobby proposed four for eighty.
I could see three for sixty, three for fifty five,
three for sixty five something in that ballpark. Maybe there's
a team option something that is a little closer to
(27:17):
Jalen Green than it is to Jabari or all Per
in Shangoon in terms of sort of the Rockets extension templates,
because I just think Tari's got a fairly unique risk profile.
That not saying he's the same player as Jalen Green,
but I do think there's some of the there's some
similar you know, risk versus reward, boom versus bus considerations
to have.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, I think you touched on what I've been kind
of wondering, is did the Jabari extensions so early cause
any problems. And again I'm speculating here. I haven't heard that,
but I just think you know, you touched on it already.
But he may think to himself, Hey, in the last
three years, I've basically outproduced Jabari. Jabari is definitely a
future potentially. He's younger than Tari. Tari was more plug
(27:56):
and play for what he does. His strengths werel ready
out of the box. And I think that you know,
certainly could play a role. I think if it's sixteen
to eighteen million, you know, annual value, I think you'd
be loving it. It's a bargain. It's probably going to
be more like nineteen to twenty one, which.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
Would be reasonable. I'm sure he's I'm.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
Sure he wants something close to Jabari as far as
annual value. That's just my guess. We'll see how this
plays out. But he has to look at it as well,
like he has this leg issue. It has caused some problems.
Hasn't been able to play back back to backs.
Speaker 1 (28:27):
You know. That's that to me is a give or take.
And I think you.
Speaker 2 (28:31):
Basically broke it down nicely in the sense that this
might be something where he takes what he can get
now in a shorter window and he can revisit this
down the line. But yeah, they have until five o'clock
I believe on is that Eastern on Tuesday.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
You know it's five o'clock Central on Monday, because it's
one day before the regular season over and spoiler alert,
Dave and I have talked offline. I think the idea is,
you know, we'll pop in and do one of these
lives shortly after the deadline, because one way or another,
there's going to be stuff to talk about along with
the the preview of the Rockets Thunder regular season opener
(29:05):
the next night.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
Absolutely and rockularly, as you just pointed out, Rockets to
open the season.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Okay, see on.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Tuesday, we think and you highlighted last game that will
probably see the double big starting. They they really did
well against OKAC and we'll talk more about that game
on Monday. But I do want to point out Sheng
Gun has had his way with Check. Check has been
fine on the other end. He's been hitting threes, but
he can't defend Shangoon. So I do expect the Thunder
(29:31):
to adjust some way because Check just doesn't have the
sand in his pants. To pull an old reference to
body up with Shngun. You need to defend Shngon. You
need a strong body, somebody who can keep them five,
you know, outside of five feet from the basket, and
that's not Chet, and they.
Speaker 1 (29:48):
Would normally use Hertenstein that role. But then they you know,
Chest's not going to keep Adams.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
From feasting on the offensive glass either, so they have
a problem there. I'm gonna be very curious to see
if dort or Case and Wallace actually defends Shangoon. That
seems maybe like you know, he would feast, But we've
seen some guys I look at Grant Williams in the
past have success against defending Shangoon just by literally just
keeping him away from the basket. I'm gonna see what
(30:14):
Okaysee does to adjust. But they will be one man down.
Most likely Jaylen Williams will be out for that game.
At least it looks like he's dealing with recovering from
risk surgery and has not been able to shoot with
that hand yet. So Rockets should have a good opportunity
there to take that game. That's going to be the
most fascinating thing to me. This is the championship team
that won it last year and the Rockets have you know,
(30:37):
they've been hit or miss with them, but they're the
team to beat in the West. Do the Rockets legitimately
have something that they cannot handle and what does okay
se do to adjust?
Speaker 3 (30:46):
Yeah, especially if Jalen Williams is out, this is a
really good time to sort of show that you're on
that tier because it's not like the Rockets are at
full strength themselves. Obviously there's no Doory Andfinny Smith part
in Fleet's probably out for the year, but the Rockets
aren't ruling him out by any stretch, So it's not
like the Rockets are at full strength. And if anything,
the Rockets are the team that has more upward mobility
(31:08):
because they're still integrating Kevin Durant, whereas the Thunder are
bringing back largely the team they had last season. So
if Jalen Williams is out, it's not as simple as saying, well,
the the Rockets are finished product and the Thunder are
going to get better. No, if the Rockets can go
in there in Oklahoma City on rad Night and compete,
let alone win. Even if this is a close game
in the final minutes, then you have to feel really
(31:29):
good about this team. And you know you mentioned Shinggoon,
the two guys I'm actually looking at the most closely
are Kevin and Jabbari. Kevin because of the obvious OKC storyline,
but I also think if there's no Jalen Williams, then
the Thunder are going to have to try smaller guys
at the two and the three more often. You mentioned
Cason Wallace, I think you'd see Alex Caruso play more,
(31:50):
and these are guys that, while very good defensively, if
you're six to eleven and have a high launch point
and can shoot very well, you can just shoot over
a lot.
Speaker 4 (31:59):
Of these guys.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
To me, this is prime for a matchup where if
the Thunder go with with their most acule lineup that's
you know, best defensively on paper, the Rockets are going
to have a size advantage. And you know, it's easy
to think of that in terms of the big Shingoon
and Steven Adams, but I actually think you'll notice it
more on the wing because I think you'll see Kevin
(32:21):
and Shabari get some matchups where they have a pretty
clear heighted manage and if they're making their shots, that
they can just rise and fire over guys. And yeah,
I agree with you, the Rocket should have a real chance,
especially because you know, I think to start the game,
clearly it'll be a men on SGA. But I thought
last year, if you go back and look at especially
early in the year when the Rockets were fully healthy,
(32:42):
it was actually Tari Easton when the Trips were down,
that the Rockets trusted as their SGA defender at the
point of attack. That's how good Tari can be when
he's right. Clearly they think that SGA is a good
matchup for him. And so if you can have Tari
do some of the heavy lifting against SGA, let a
men save some of his shoes for the offensive end
of the floor, to me, that's sort of the perfect
(33:02):
tag team to you know, you're not going to shut
him down by any stretch, but just keep his productivity
within reason not insane efficiency.
Speaker 4 (33:08):
To where hopefully the Rockets have enough on the other
end to win out.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
That's going to be Tuesday.
Speaker 2 (33:13):
Well, if you as you pointed out, we'll probably do
a live show on Monday and talk a little bit
about you know, the Tari extension hopefully or the decision
to not extend him, and then we'll gear up for
the games. I'm excited. I'm really pumped up about the year.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
I'm this is. They're all going to matter from here
on out.
Speaker 2 (33:32):
I mean, today's game was fun to watch what Reed
Shepherd can do, but kind of pointless in the grand
scheme watching, you know, Crawford and these guys, no disrespect
to them, just knowing that they're not going to be
playing in the games that matter really, So I'm really
looking forward to, you know, this chess match that's going
to start Tuesday night against Okay.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
See, yeah, absolutely, and then Monday. You know, either way,
I hope an extension gets done, but even if it doesn't,
then that sort of gives you a tell as to
what the future might look like, what the options are
in terms of the trade market. If a deal doesn't
get done, he's more eligible to get doubt during this
upcoming season, so there could be some new implications there.
So bottom line, Monday, one way or another, I think
(34:10):
we're going to have something to talk about.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Absolutely, Ben, appreciate you doing this.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Rockets finished the preseason four and oh just to open
the season against the World Champs Okayse on Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Thanks everybody, y'all have a great night.
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