December 21, 2025 • 31 mins
With a much-improved defensive effort and elite shooting and playmaking from Kevin Durant, Reed Sheppard, and Jabari Smith Jr., Houston (17-8) got its revenge on the Nuggets (20-7) in Saturday’s emphatic win at Denver.
Hosted by Ben DuBose and Dave Hardisty, our “ClutchFans Live” postgame show breaks down all the key storylines and takeaways. Discussion topics include the impact of Durant’s leadership in recent days; Smith’s evolution into a high-level role player for the Rockets; and whether Sheppard has already done enough to secure a consistent spot in Ime Udoka’s closing lineups.
This episode can also be viewed in video form here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0McY-0y5yyI
Hosted by Ben DuBose and Dave Hardisty, our “ClutchFans Live” postgame show breaks down all the key storylines and takeaways. Discussion topics include the impact of Durant’s leadership in recent days; Smith’s evolution into a high-level role player for the Rockets; and whether Sheppard has already done enough to secure a consistent spot in Ime Udoka’s closing lineups.
This episode can also be viewed in video form here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0McY-0y5yyI
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome into the show. Guys.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
We are ecstatic to say Rockets get a huge win
in Denver one p fifteen to one oh one. This
was round two, really round three for the season, but
round two in Denver. Rockets had just played there on
Monday and lost a tough one in overtime. This was
a completely different Rockets team than what we saw in
(00:24):
that Monday game, and it was a completely different shift
in a variety of ways. Kind of fascinating. I'm here
with Ben Dubo's of Rockets Wire at USA today and
Clutch fans and Ben, I mean, there's a lot to
digest here, you know. Obviously it's we're going to talk
a lot about Reied Shepherd, Kevin Durant, and Jabari Smith
Junior that really had terrific games tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, and I want to start with Kevin Durant, well,
Kevin Durant and Emi Udoka. But I think inherently the
player is a little more important because, look, there's some
potentially bigger picture takeaways with regards to how the Rockets
should run their offense and their defense. And this was
their first big boy win against a true top tier
team this season. There had been a lot made of
(01:10):
the fact that they were zero and five against the Thunder,
the Nuggets, the Spurs, the Pistons. So yeah, it could
have some implications for down the road when we talk
about playoff basketball. But before we talk about April, we've
got to talk about December. We've got to talk about
where we are right now. And this was the first
patch of adversity that the Rockets had really hit this season,
(01:30):
like these last two games were the first time the
Rockets had lost consecutive games since their zer to two
start to the year, and the way they lost in
New Orleans. As frustrating as it was to blow a
twenty five point lead in the second half, they were
upset postgame. You could look at Kevin Durant's postgame interview
and the tension was palpable. He was angry, and I
don't think it's all necessarily as teammates. Some of it.
(01:51):
He's angry at himself. He's frustrated by the situation. But
the question is always how do you respond when you
get punched in the mouth, when you hit that love adversity?
We heard Emy called them out in New Orleans, called
their defensive effort embarrassing and boy did they respond tonight. Dave. So,
the Nuggets average one hundred and twenty six points per game.
(02:11):
This was their lowest scoring game of the year. But
I think you can almost throw out the fourth quarter
because over half of it was garbage time with the
Rockets up twenty plus points midway through. Like the first
three quarters, they held the Nuggets to sixty six points,
And even with that fourth quarter where the Nuggets put
up thirty five, largely in garbage time, it was still
easily their lowest scoring game of the season. So the
(02:34):
Rockets responded defensively with regards to their intensity. I thought
Joshua Kogie deserves a shout out early in the game,
the threes, he hit a couple of steals that he
had in the first half, the transition play that sort
of sparked the Rockets after they were a little bit lethargic.
But I just think in a situation like this, it
comes down to your leaders, your alphas on the court.
That's Kevin Durant, on the sidelines, that's imy Udoka, and
(02:56):
so the Rockets. The other guys on that team they
got called out. I think in the first quarter it
was pretty clear that Kevin Durant was taking this game
much more seriously than one of eighty two, and he
acknowledged it in his postgame interview with Vanessa Richardson talking
about how they brought more juice, more energy. There was
a play in the first quarter where you could see
Kevin was visibly frustrated with the men Thompson for not
(03:19):
going where he wanted him to go on the floor.
And so it's always useful to see how does your
team respond, especially when so many of your rotation guys
are young, when they get called out, and so ema
postgame in New Orleans, Kevin to an extent postgame and
early on tonight, you could see that there was an edge,
there was something extra. This was not a game that
(03:41):
the Rockets wanted to lose, and so how did they
respond collectively? I think it's just really important to start there,
because we mentioned the other night they entered three and
four in December. It wasn't just the last couple of games.
They hadn't really been themselves. It felt like since the
calendar turned to December today they were. This was a
game they led for I'd say seventy five eighty percent
(04:02):
of it largely by ten plus points, and so to
see them respond to that level of diversity, getting called
out by Emai Udoka and to an extent by Kevin
Durant and respond the way they did, Like, you know,
first and foremost kudos to Katie and Reed Shepherd and
Jabari Smith Junia for hitting a lot of tough shots tonight.
But I think it starts just culturally and so seeing
how they responded up and down that roster. You know,
(04:25):
all Forrinchin Bun didn't have a big statistical game, but
I thought his defense was much improved tonight, Dave, much improved,
And I think a lot of that just comes down
to seeing how your team responds to those callouts. Dave,
they responded tonight in the in the short term, I
think that's the most important thing.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, I mean, it's I totally agree. It was so
fune I tweeted this, It's just so fun to watch
this team be kind of that Emai Udoka identity where
it's strong defense and then to be an efficient three
point shooting team, which has escaped them before this season,
but now tonight they had increased volume. But you know,
it really come. I mean, as far as Shangun I
(05:01):
agree with you. I thought, really less is more. He
took twenty seven shots in the last game, and you know.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It was close.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Today, he just took a step back as far as
the offense and let these guys go to work on
the outside. And I mean it's a little bit of
an outlier performance. Obviously, the Rockets were nineteen of thirty
five from three point range, which is scorching. Kate kd
was five of six. We're going to talk about Reed Shepherd,
who was definitely the story of the game, and Jabari
was five of eleven. I think those guys combined for
(05:29):
sixteen triples, you know. But at the same time, like
it's just nice to see Shangun play that kind of
a game where you know he's just willing to distribute
or or kind of take a step back. It didn't
people criticized him after the Pelicans game, and I think
this was this was good to see. But you know
what's amazing, like you said, is the defense. They held
the Nuggets today to twenty seven percent three point shooting.
(05:51):
This is the second best from efficiency standpoint three point
shooting team in the league.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
The highest only twenty nine attempts. Let's emphasize that, and
twenty two in the first three quarters. So it's not
just that the Nuggets missed those shots. The Rockets aggressively
defended and closed out and made it difficult for them
to get off shots. Period.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, that was huge, and I think, you know, one
hundred and twenty five points they averaged per game. Rockets
seldom like you know, as you mentioned one hundred and
one today. I mean, it's just terrific to see because
we were watching at least I was watching this in
the first quarter thinking the Rockets just aren't as good
as the Nuggets, period.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
But to what but it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
You know, obviously shifted on a dime and the Rockets.
It's gonna let's start with Read Shepherd. Kevin Durant was amazing.
We're gonna talk about Kevin Durant, for sure, we'll talk
as well about Jubbari the kind of game he had.
But Reach Shepherd now is just shifting the dialogue. It's
to the point now where you can't really worry about
the defense, you can't really worry about these other things.
He's looking like a potential engine. Like I don't want
(06:51):
to I don't say that lightly. At the same time,
I don't want to say that that's for sure, but
he's made some great passes.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
But today he was just launching. This was the game.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
This was Read Shepherd against the Golden State Warriors, the
cocaine curry. Read Shepherd just going nuts, pulling up from
five to ten feet behind three point line and just
made some amazing shots, the kind that your jaws on
the floor. I think he got to play him now,
you know.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I don't know if it's start, but at the minimum,
you gotta crank up the minutes every single game.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, And I think if it's late and close the
way it was the other night in New Orleans, it's
getting to where it's very difficult to justify leaving him
on the sidelines. And I think for all the talk
that's been out there the last few days, and I
thought it was somewhat overcooked after that Monday loss, because
obviously there's an asterisk you put on that with the officiating. Overall,
the Rockets actually, at least in the fourth quarter, executed
(07:42):
really well offensively down the stretch in that game, but
it was Reed Shepherd that sparked them. He was the
guy that hit a couple of big threes, that was
running the offense for stretches, And when you look at
these big games that they've had against the top tier,
excluding the first two, when I think he clearly wasn't
read a knee a little bit of seasoning ever since
(08:03):
that Spurs Cup game, start with the San Antonio one,
and then you look at these three against Denver, so
two of them he was lights out today, and the
first game against Denver he was probably your best player
over those two games. Now, I think today Kevin was
probably a little bit better overall. But I'd say for
the two games, the home Cup game and the one tonight,
Reid was probably a little bit better because if you recall,
(08:25):
Kevin struggled in that home game against the Nuggets, and
then the other night, Reid had a bad first half.
I think he started oh of six, But from midway
through that game and then the super high leverage moments
he stepped up. He delivered. And so I think against
really good teams, you're disproportionately likely to be in close
(08:46):
games against The Rockets were good enough today not to
really be pushed. But in most of these games, you
can't expect to beat a team like the Nuggets, especially
on the road by like fifteen plus points to where
there's not even relevant possession in the fourth quarter. And
I just think that his combination of shot making and
shot creation is so important because the big question for
(09:09):
this Rockets team Kevin Durant. Even at thirty seven, he's
still Kevin Durant. We've covered that, but what's going to
happen when teams send that second defender or if it's
a game where refs let it be a little chippy.
They have some long defenders that can get away with
some physicality. Where do the Rockets turn if Kevin Durant
isn't able to initiate offense when it matters most. And
(09:31):
Shin Gooon and the men have had moments this season,
especially Shangoon, but against the top tier it hasn't been
as consistent as you like. And so I think having
read out there as a third guy that can really
create and shoot at a high level, I think that's
just so important. And obviously there are questions with regards
to the defense. We saw Jamal Murray hunt him a
(09:53):
few times on switches in the second half. But the
thing is Dave for the season as a whole I
looked it up. Reach Shepherd is tied going into today
for the second best defensive rating on the team or
second lowest. You know, so that can certainly be misleading,
But what I do think it speaks to is that
the Rockets are not getting torched defensively when he's on
(10:15):
the court. It's not like every time he goes on there,
that the Rockets are just getting run out of the
gym and that it's just a layup line that's not happening. Now.
Am I saying read Shepherd is the second best defensive player.
Absolutely not. But what I'm saying is that when the
overall performance is still passable, it shows you that the
Rockets are able to scheme around it. It shows you
that reads turnovers are able to make an impact and
(10:39):
sort of offset some of those low lights. Imayudoka is
a really creative coach and you're sort of letting him shine.
You know, it's not easy asking an undersized twenty one
year old to play high leverage minutes and you know,
stop guys like Jamal Murray. But maybe ima Udoka is
the perfect coach for this. And when you look at
the balance of the season, the defense is really not
(11:00):
slipping in those Reed Shepherd minutes to the extent that
you would think if you just look at him and
you look at the scouting reports. So with that said,
if Red's not getting towards defensively, and we can clearly
see what he does offensively and disproportionately against the better teams,
look what he's done these three games against the Nuggets,
the Spurs Cup game. If the defense is passable, and
(11:23):
it has been, I don't know what the justification is
for leaving him on the sidelines late in a close game.
To me, it's not even so much about the point
guard thing anymore. It's just about the shot making and
the shot creation. It's so valuable. And we talked about
the math. You know, the Rockets got up thirty five
threes tonight to twenty nine for the Nuggets. That was
a weakness for this team earlier in the year, losing
(11:45):
the math advantage. Well, it's sort of tough to lose
the math advantage where you can turn Red loose and
you know, he goes six of nine from three.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, we've talked about this before. Ben. I don't want
to speak for you. I'm just going to keep it real.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You know, I look at san Antonio and Okay See,
and I've mentioned a little bit of this on the
show before, but I'm just being honest here. I worry
a little bit about that. You know, that core the
Rockets have, they're very good. I think they're very close.
But I look at san Antonio, it looks really good.
I look at okay See, they're young, it looks really good.
I think Reid, to me, is the X factor on
(12:18):
whether the Rockets are as good or better than those teams.
Like I really feel that way, Like that's what I think.
There's a special offensive player in here for sure. I
mean he's gonna be I'm sure a little streaky here
and there, but honest to goodness, just like the Golden
State game tonight looked very Curry like. I mean there
was that play where remember where Jabari was in the
(12:38):
corner and they messed up the spacing and Reid was
there too, and I think a men it was in transition,
it kicked it out and he just caught it all
in one motion, launched that thing and he'd already hit
one just before that, and I'm just like, this guy
is pulling another Curry moment. He has that potential. I'm
not saying he's Steph Curry. I'm not saying that's that's
(13:00):
you know for sure what he's going to become. But
this kind of game reminds me of Steph a lot,
so I think that to me, he is such an
important player as far as how good this team can be.
I think Shangoon Jabbari a Men, really good Core Tari,
which we haven't even seen yet, really good core. I'm
(13:20):
not sure how it grades out compared to some of
those others, but when you add Read in there, I
think it's it's, uh, you know what he could be.
I think it's potentially great.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
And I think it can also help Shangoon and a
Men in their development by alleviating some of the pressure.
I think for this particular season, so much of it's
gonna come down to, Yay, we figured out the volume.
There we go.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
It's my fault, guys, Yeah, it's it's mine. We got it,
fixed it.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
That's the biggest win of all. No getting back to
Reid and not just what he means individually, but I
think for the team overall, I think where this season
is going to get decided. We can see this from
a mile away. Kevin Durant is still Kadi. He commands
a ridiculous amount of respect, especially in late game situations.
(14:09):
And what's going to happen when opposing defenses decide that
they aren't gonna let Katie beat them? And we've seen
at times Shangoon and a Men, especially Shangoon step up,
but it's been, you know, not as consistent as you
would like, and that's to be expected. These guys are
twenty two and twenty three years old and asking them
to be, you know, the second and third best players
(14:32):
on a bona fide championship contender, it's a lot like
they are both still developing as players. And so if
you put Reid into that mix, I'm not saying Reid
is necessarily going to be a better player than either
of them, but just as another offensive engine, it can
really alleviate the pressure, whereas so much of it it
feels like has to be Shingoon or A Men, and
(14:54):
if they're struggling and they're having a bad night, then
it just spirals because teams are going to commit even
more resources to KD and so I think for this
particular team, this isn't meant to you know, wave the
white flag on on Shingoon or Men as a bona
fide number two and a contend They're absolutely not no,
But I do think, you know, we've seen a little
(15:16):
bit this month, Like there was one narrative I never
bought into. There was this talk when people were doing
their quarter season reviews, when the Rockets had that hiatus
at about the twenty game mark a couple of weeks ago,
people are asking, you know, is KD or ALP the
best player on the team. Let's not get carried away.
It's it's Kevin Durant. Like Alp is doing a lot
(15:37):
of really good things statistically, and he's still a very
valuable player. But a lot of the numbers he puts
up are due to the extraordinary attention that Kevin Durant draws.
And that's why, especially in high leverage situations late in games,
there's a reason opposing coaches are committing so many resources
to KD. And so it's going to come down to
(15:58):
how your non KDL players, what can they do in
the half court laid in close games? And there have
been moments for Shangoon and a Men, but is it
enough to beat you know, the Oklahoma City Thunder four
times out of seven, or other good teams like the
Nuggets and Spurs that don't seem far behind them. That's
the question. I'm not saying they can't, but I would
feel a lot better about it if you also add
(16:21):
read to that formula. Like for me, I guess the
way I would bring it full circle. Whatever defensive downgrade
there is from playing Reed Shepherd in your closing lineup,
to me, it is far less important. I will gladly
take that trade off in exchange for having a third
creator out there alongside Shangoon and a men to alleviate
(16:44):
that pressure in those scenarios where Katie gets double. To me,
I just I can see it from a mile away, Dave,
the season's going to be determined by in the playoffs.
Kad draws that double, he draws those physical defenses. What
do the other four players do? And I don't see
how you can't feel better if reach Upper was one
of those other four players.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, absolutely, couple, you know, and he had a couple
of moments tonights, his patented sort of strip as they're
bringing the ball up and go the other way, including
one that kind of you know, I don't want to
say the Nuggets were totally challenging at the very end,
but they did put a little scare into the Rockets
and he kind of iced the game with a steel and.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Dunk going the other way. Two moments you kind of
alluded to him.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
One of them was the Bruce Brown blocking Reed Shepherd
off the baseline jumper and Bruce Brown barked at him
and got in his face. They really got up in
his face because I'm sure he was very frustrated. Reid
had just been cooking all night long, and Reid just
got right back at him and just yelled at him.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Love that moment.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
The other was mentioned here in the in the chat
as well, about the the Katie finger point, you know,
the little dance running back after he nailed that shot.
That was beautiful too. You could see the full you know,
Katie Twitter troll come out in him in that moment,
and I'm sure it's going to go viral in a
bunch of ways tonight. But yeah, I mean just was
(17:59):
fun to watch. Those two were amazing. They were definitely
the two stars. There was a third that was pretty
darn close. I thought he was really good both ends
of the floor, and that's Jabari Smith Junior tonight after
a total dud of a game in New Orleans against
the Pelicans where you know, he and Shannghoon were kind
of the guys that were, you know, the dogs sort
of speaking that game. Jabari just really bounced back in
(18:22):
a big way tonight, hit five triples. He just looked
really good on both ends of the floor. I don't
know what your thoughts were on Jabari tonight.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I thought he looked really really good. And I
thought there was a nice tweet from Matt Moore HP
Basketball on Twitter talking early in the game about Rockets
Twitter being too low on Jabari Smith Junior and not
realizing his value as a connector. I just think it's
so easy for those secondary pieces around the stars, like
they're going to catch so much criticism because nobody wants
(18:52):
to to single out I got to do it in
the mirror a few times before I do it on
YouTube us that up. But I think it's very easy
to sort of blame the ancillary pieces, which Javari Swift
Junior is, because we all want to give you know,
Kevin Durant and all pri and Shangoon are all stars
for a reason, and we think Amn Thompson has all
(19:14):
star potential and so it's easy to give guys like
that the benefit of the doubt. You know, maybe not
a mend because he hasn't got to the all star
level yet, and he certainly got his share of criticism too,
But the point is there's sort of a sliding scale
and that you know, the longer your resume is, the
more likely you're going to get the benefit of the doubt.
And even if you have a bad night, people sort
of look the other way. And if you don't have
(19:37):
that long resume, and even if you are providing a
lot of value. And there's a reason why both Fred
and KD on Fred's podcast that they tape this week
when I are their way to talk about Javari being
so important to this team and having grown so much
the last few months under KDE's tutelage. There's a reason
they're saying those things like they see it. But in
a situation where the game's getting away from you, you
(19:57):
have a couple of losses, and if Jabari has a
cold shoe night, it's very easy for him to be
piled on, for everyone to just sort of put all
their frustrations in that bucket because it's less convenient for
us to call out the big guns who we do
believe in, and we think they're going to turn it around,
and they probably will, but the team's probably going to
turn it around as well. I mean, they're seventeen and
(20:18):
eight through twenty five games for a reason. Even with
this month being underwhelming, they're still in a very good
place in the West. And so yeah, Jabari is just
in a tough spot, like it's so difficult. It's funny
they're playing Denver tonight. It reminds me a little bit
of before the year. I thought it was so silly
that people were saying that Cam Johnson would be a
clear upgrade over Michael Porter Junior. Like I'm not saying
(20:39):
he's been bad, but look what MPJ has been doing
in Brooklyn. He looks really good. What happens is that
when you're in that third or fourth banana role on
a contender alongside Gokitchen Murray, it's so easy for any
MPJA bad night to get blown out of proportion, for
him to be the whipping boy, especially in social media
and message board culture, and I think to some extent,
(21:00):
and that's the role not saying Javari is exactly like
MPJA is a player, But I think just in terms
of the hierarchy of this team, that's sort of how
he fits in. And so if he has a cold
shooting night, especially if he shoots a lot in volume,
people are going to pile on. But when you look
a little bit deeper, Yeah, he's still making a clear impact.
And defensively, I know people have been frustrated this month.
(21:20):
I still contend he's been moving on the perimeter much
better this season than he did last season. I think
you can see the work he did on his body
paying off, and I just think tonight it was more
the rest of the roster, and it starts with the interior,
you know, the matchups. Earlier this week, we talked about
Shongoon's defensive struggles in recent games. Steven Adams had zero
rebounds the first game againt the Nuggets a few nights ago. Yeah,
(21:43):
the rim protection was a lot better tonight. And when
the rim protection is better, when those centers are defending
the way they're capable of, then I think the perimeter
pieces like Javari are inherently going to look a lot better.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, you know, it's he had a great block on
Valanciunis tonight, which was really nice.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
There was another drive.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
It was five point swing there. Yeah, there was a
dunk that Sabari blocked and then he hit a three
on the other end. I think it would have been
seven instead it was twelve, I want to say, midway
through the third quarter. Not sure if that's the one
you're referencing, but it was a huge momentum swing in
the game, and Jabari had both the block and the three.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You know, we joked before the season started with Jalen
Green gone who was going to be the sort of
scapegoat of the year. You know, I think Jalen and
Fred got that talk a lot last year. I put
all my money on Jabari. That hasn't really been the case,
but I definitely saw that after the last game. I
saw a lot of trade Jabari, a lot of you know,
stuff like that. I totally agree with what Matt's saying.
(22:35):
I think rockets Twitter. I'll unfortunately a lot of it,
and there's a lot of great fans there too, but
a lot of it is is what they're now calling PRA,
which is just points, rebounds assists. Is did you fill
up the box score as opposed to are you impacting winning?
And I think what's amazing. I don't think I can
say this as much about Jabari in previous years. It
was starting to show up last year, but I think
(22:57):
it's really showing up this year. He's impacting winning significantly.
I think he's having a I think he's got elite
role player potential. I don't know if people are excited
about that.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I am. I look at especially on the contract, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And Ian I look at somebody like Draymond Green as
an elite role player, and in another context you could
call that a superstar.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
He's not.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You're not going to hand him the ball and he's
going to go to work and do a bunch of
juke moves and get you twenty and ten and ten
or something every night. But you know, Jabari fills the
cracks around superstars in a big way. And he's got
great size, he's got the ability to shoot from outside.
I thought it was a great showing from him tonight.
I was happy to see it because you know, he's
(23:38):
been he's been struggling a little bit from three point
range last a little bit while. For him to break
out from three tonight was great.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
And Steven Adams, I mentioned earlier, he didn't have zero
rebounds tonight like he did the other night. He had twelve.
So what a huge swing to go from zero rebounds
against the same team on Monday to twelve tonight. And Kevin,
you know, we talked about the shot making and you know,
for all the trash talk, which is great, it's not
that the Rockets didn't have it in the past. You know,
(24:05):
Dylan Brooks in particular, we're talk trash, but the trash talk,
the vocal leadership hits a little bit different when you
can back it up by scoring thirty, which KD is
much more capable of doing than Dylan Brooks. So I
think just the intangible standout, but also the willingness to
throw their body into harm's way. Kad mentioned his postgame quote,
what it stands out, extra juice, extra energy. KD with
(24:25):
six rebounds, Steven Adams with twelve. That's your two vets
who have a ton of mileage on their bodies. And
you know, Steven's probably gonna rest tomorrow in Sacramento because
he's not playing both ends and back to backs at
this point. So he left it all on the court tonight,
eighteen rebounds between them, and if you're not giving up
the second chance opportunities and if you're protecting the rim.
That's why I really think so much of what's happened
(24:47):
this month. You know, some of it's been just absences.
Shinggoon missed a couple of the games while sick, Steven
Adams missed a couple of games on back to backs.
Some of it's been just under performances. We talked about
Shingoon's issues, We've talked about, uh Steven the zero rebounds
being an outlier, but I just think a lot of
what we've talked about with the defense comes down to
the rem protection not being what we're used to, and
(25:08):
quite frankly, it's a clear outlier like this is an
emy Udoka coach team. You know, one reason why to
go back to the Read Shepherd discussion briefly, that I'm
inclined to put Reid on the floor. I will gamble
on the side of trusting emy Udoka's creativity on defense
before I gamble on trusting emy Udoka's ability to figure
it out offensively without Read Shepherd and also without Fred
(25:29):
Binfleet to me, without Fred and given what e may
can do defensively, it's all the easier, at least in
my opinion, to just trust that he'll be able to
figure it out. And so I think that's that's the
conundrum late in games, and I think they'll increasingly err
on the side of read Shepherd based on what we've
seen this week, especially against the really good competition. But
(25:51):
then overall, it's like so many of these these defensive
concerns from from Reid to Jabbari to anyone else in
the road. If you have Shinoon and Steven available and
playing at a higher level than they have for most
of this month, and they should. I mean, we saw
them do it in November when this was you know,
they ended November ranked number two in the NBA in defense.
(26:12):
I think it's pretty clear going into tonight. They were
number sixteen in defensive rating in December. That's an outlier.
This is a good defensive team. Once the interior figures
it out, and I think I think they will, it's inevitable,
then so many other things are gonna are going to
fall in line, Like a lot of the things people
picked on with Jubari and the perimeter, Like I don't
care how good your perimeter defense is, you're gonna get
(26:32):
blown by from time to time. In today's NBA, like
it's a dribble penetration league, guys are quicker than ever.
It's tougher to defend without fouling because of how the
game's officiated. You need that rim protection. It wasn't always there,
but you can see in the rebounding data tonight they
were much more spry, they were much more springy. KD
this week has shown an increased willingness to you know,
protect the rim as well. And so if you have that,
(26:52):
if you have that protection near the rim, then the
guys like Reid and Jabari are going to hold up
magically much better.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
In a couple other notes, just as as we get
ready to close here one, you know, we kind of
if everything pans out the way we hope, the Rockets
would be two or three in the West. I mean,
they're not there right now. I don't know what they
are after this win, but they were fifth I think
coming into this game, and Minnesota just got a big
win over OKC and they're they're hanging around at six.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is these
(27:18):
two teams, Rockets and Nuggets, could face each other in
the second round of the playoffs this year. If it
goes as we hope or expect. The good I thought
was a good sign is the both of these games,
the Rockets got Jokicic in foul trouble. You know, they
fouled him out in the first game and then this one,
you know, and there was certainly that controversial one just
before the half. You and I discussed this, that he
wasn't really set Jokicic wasn't Shan Gun did kind of
(27:41):
barrel through him. They reviewed it and it would have
been Jokic's fourth foul just before the half, but they
upheld it as a foul on Shangun instead.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
He just he basically was struggling.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
They didn't, in my opinion, officiated him like an MVP
because he, like both times, had real foul trouble against
this Rocket team. So hopeful that's a good sign. If
these two teams do face each other and one other
setup Rockets play the Kings tomorrow. I don't know if
we're going to do a show or not. I know
Ben can't make it tomorrow. We may do it. It's
going to be a late show. But I don't think
the Rockets have won a second game of back to
(28:13):
back this year. This is the third back to back
if I'm remembering correctly, and it is the Kings, the
lowly Kings. They have really struggled this year. I'm assuming
we'll see Adams out. I don't know if we'll see
Tari back. I'm I'm expecting no, because we've felt the
last two or three games now that he was going
to come back. You know that this is a big
game in the sense that it's kind of a trap,
very similar to the Pelicans, and it's the second game
(28:35):
of a back to back, which you haven't won yet
this year.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And also to your point on the standings, there's also
a world where I hope this doesn't apply to the Rockets.
I hope they take off. And we mentioned the schedule
getting weaker starting with you know, this game, You've got
the rest of this month, the Kings, the Clippers, the Lakers,
who are tough, but they won't have Austin Reeves in
all likelihood, the Calves who are teetering. Then you've got
you know, the Pacers, the net the MAVs, the Suns,
(29:01):
the Trailblazer Swites. It's a pretty soft schedule for the
next ten to twelve games, and so hopefully the Rockets
were able to establish themselves in that two to three range.
But also if there's a top six and there's the
clear top five now and let's say the Timberwolves join,
there could be an incentive. I hope it's not the
Rockets they are looking at this, but to drop to
six so that you're on that you know, two three
line instead of on course to play Oklahoma City in
(29:24):
round two, which would be if you're the four to
five like we saw Minnesota as the six last year
and they got to the Western Conference Finals by avoiding
the OKC side of the brackets. So small thing to
keep in mind. I hope that doesn't apply to the Rockets.
But yeah, the in the short term, like this was
the stabilizing win they needed it. This proved that, you know,
nothing is just catastrophically off the rails, like Ema Udoka
(29:45):
Kevin Durant's messages, they are getting through. And so now
this is the point in which, you know, I know
there are reasons for it back to backs, but look,
relative to the spreadsheet, they've lost games this month that
they should have won in Utah, in New Orleans. These
are the games, the Kings and the Clippers. You are
better than these teams, even on night too, back to backs,
(30:07):
look Reed Shepherd, Jabari Smith all for in Shaoon, Amen Thompson.
They've got fresh legs, they're young. Let them run. Clint
Cappella didn't have to play tonight. I don't think he
should be fresh, replacing Steven as the backup center. Let
them eat. Trust your young guys, you know, play capella
a little bit more if you need it. That's why
you signed the third string veteran center and get this win.
(30:28):
Because I think tonight, you know, tonight shows the upside
is there. If you had any concerns about can they
beat top tier competition, I think that, you know, we
can dial that down a little bit at the moment. Now.
The next thing is can they bring their effort more consistently.
That's what I'm looking for the next couple of games,
like they've stabilized, they show the upside is still there. Now,
can they get back to the consistency they had in
November to where you know, like we saw that road
(30:50):
trip where they just ran through Toronto, and Boston and
they were just bludgeting teams. Let's get back to that.
Let's see them go and beat up on teams like
the Kings and Clippers that went healthy, the Rocket should
be able to beat by ten plus points. Yep.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Absolutely, And on that spreadsheet, Rockets with the loss to
the Pelicans, fell behind by one on their pace and
then tonight win a game that I had down as
a loss. So they're right back on on that spreadsheet.
So fifty six fifty seven win pace looking good, So
huge win tonight, Rockets. Lots of positive signs read Shepherd
(31:22):
being probably the biggest in the sense of there's there's
real potential here for a point guard an engine. I
like this how I would probably describe it, or a
primary had a terrific game, great shooting performance, and showed
some real playmaking promise.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
That's Ben Dubos.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I'm Dave Harsty, appreciate all of you guys watching, and
we will be back soon. Thanks everybody,
Welcome into the show. Guys.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
We are ecstatic to say Rockets get a huge win
in Denver one p fifteen to one oh one. This
was round two, really round three for the season, but
round two in Denver. Rockets had just played there on
Monday and lost a tough one in overtime. This was
a completely different Rockets team than what we saw in
(00:24):
that Monday game, and it was a completely different shift
in a variety of ways. Kind of fascinating. I'm here
with Ben Dubo's of Rockets Wire at USA today and
Clutch fans and Ben, I mean, there's a lot to
digest here, you know. Obviously it's we're going to talk
a lot about Reied Shepherd, Kevin Durant, and Jabari Smith
Junior that really had terrific games tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, and I want to start with Kevin Durant, well,
Kevin Durant and Emi Udoka. But I think inherently the
player is a little more important because, look, there's some
potentially bigger picture takeaways with regards to how the Rockets
should run their offense and their defense. And this was
their first big boy win against a true top tier
team this season. There had been a lot made of
(01:10):
the fact that they were zero and five against the Thunder,
the Nuggets, the Spurs, the Pistons. So yeah, it could
have some implications for down the road when we talk
about playoff basketball. But before we talk about April, we've
got to talk about December. We've got to talk about
where we are right now. And this was the first
patch of adversity that the Rockets had really hit this season,
(01:30):
like these last two games were the first time the
Rockets had lost consecutive games since their zer to two
start to the year, and the way they lost in
New Orleans. As frustrating as it was to blow a
twenty five point lead in the second half, they were
upset postgame. You could look at Kevin Durant's postgame interview
and the tension was palpable. He was angry, and I
don't think it's all necessarily as teammates. Some of it.
(01:51):
He's angry at himself. He's frustrated by the situation. But
the question is always how do you respond when you
get punched in the mouth, when you hit that love adversity?
We heard Emy called them out in New Orleans, called
their defensive effort embarrassing and boy did they respond tonight. Dave. So,
the Nuggets average one hundred and twenty six points per game.
(02:11):
This was their lowest scoring game of the year. But
I think you can almost throw out the fourth quarter
because over half of it was garbage time with the
Rockets up twenty plus points midway through. Like the first
three quarters, they held the Nuggets to sixty six points,
And even with that fourth quarter where the Nuggets put
up thirty five, largely in garbage time, it was still
easily their lowest scoring game of the season. So the
(02:34):
Rockets responded defensively with regards to their intensity. I thought
Joshua Kogie deserves a shout out early in the game,
the threes, he hit a couple of steals that he
had in the first half, the transition play that sort
of sparked the Rockets after they were a little bit lethargic.
But I just think in a situation like this, it
comes down to your leaders, your alphas on the court.
That's Kevin Durant, on the sidelines, that's imy Udoka, and
(02:56):
so the Rockets. The other guys on that team they
got called out. I think in the first quarter it
was pretty clear that Kevin Durant was taking this game
much more seriously than one of eighty two, and he
acknowledged it in his postgame interview with Vanessa Richardson talking
about how they brought more juice, more energy. There was
a play in the first quarter where you could see
Kevin was visibly frustrated with the men Thompson for not
(03:19):
going where he wanted him to go on the floor.
And so it's always useful to see how does your
team respond, especially when so many of your rotation guys
are young, when they get called out, and so ema
postgame in New Orleans, Kevin to an extent postgame and
early on tonight, you could see that there was an edge,
there was something extra. This was not a game that
(03:41):
the Rockets wanted to lose, and so how did they
respond collectively? I think it's just really important to start there,
because we mentioned the other night they entered three and
four in December. It wasn't just the last couple of games.
They hadn't really been themselves. It felt like since the
calendar turned to December today they were. This was a
game they led for I'd say seventy five eighty percent
(04:02):
of it largely by ten plus points, and so to
see them respond to that level of diversity, getting called
out by Emai Udoka and to an extent by Kevin
Durant and respond the way they did, Like, you know,
first and foremost kudos to Katie and Reed Shepherd and
Jabari Smith Junia for hitting a lot of tough shots tonight.
But I think it starts just culturally and so seeing
how they responded up and down that roster. You know,
(04:25):
all Forrinchin Bun didn't have a big statistical game, but
I thought his defense was much improved tonight, Dave, much improved,
And I think a lot of that just comes down
to seeing how your team responds to those callouts. Dave,
they responded tonight in the in the short term, I
think that's the most important thing.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
Yeah, I mean, it's I totally agree. It was so
fune I tweeted this, It's just so fun to watch
this team be kind of that Emai Udoka identity where
it's strong defense and then to be an efficient three
point shooting team, which has escaped them before this season,
but now tonight they had increased volume. But you know,
it really come. I mean, as far as Shangun I
(05:01):
agree with you. I thought, really less is more. He
took twenty seven shots in the last game, and you know.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
It was close.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Today, he just took a step back as far as
the offense and let these guys go to work on
the outside. And I mean it's a little bit of
an outlier performance. Obviously, the Rockets were nineteen of thirty
five from three point range, which is scorching. Kate kd
was five of six. We're going to talk about Reed Shepherd,
who was definitely the story of the game, and Jabari
was five of eleven. I think those guys combined for
(05:29):
sixteen triples, you know. But at the same time, like
it's just nice to see Shangun play that kind of
a game where you know he's just willing to distribute
or or kind of take a step back. It didn't
people criticized him after the Pelicans game, and I think
this was this was good to see. But you know
what's amazing, like you said, is the defense. They held
the Nuggets today to twenty seven percent three point shooting.
(05:51):
This is the second best from efficiency standpoint three point
shooting team in the league.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
The highest only twenty nine attempts. Let's emphasize that, and
twenty two in the first three quarters. So it's not
just that the Nuggets missed those shots. The Rockets aggressively
defended and closed out and made it difficult for them
to get off shots. Period.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, that was huge, and I think, you know, one
hundred and twenty five points they averaged per game. Rockets
seldom like you know, as you mentioned one hundred and
one today. I mean, it's just terrific to see because
we were watching at least I was watching this in
the first quarter thinking the Rockets just aren't as good
as the Nuggets, period.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
But to what but it.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
You know, obviously shifted on a dime and the Rockets.
It's gonna let's start with Read Shepherd. Kevin Durant was amazing.
We're gonna talk about Kevin Durant, for sure, we'll talk
as well about Jubbari the kind of game he had.
But Reach Shepherd now is just shifting the dialogue. It's
to the point now where you can't really worry about
the defense, you can't really worry about these other things.
He's looking like a potential engine. Like I don't want
(06:51):
to I don't say that lightly. At the same time,
I don't want to say that that's for sure, but
he's made some great passes.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
But today he was just launching. This was the game.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
This was Read Shepherd against the Golden State Warriors, the
cocaine curry. Read Shepherd just going nuts, pulling up from
five to ten feet behind three point line and just
made some amazing shots, the kind that your jaws on
the floor. I think he got to play him now,
you know.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (07:15):
I don't know if it's start, but at the minimum,
you gotta crank up the minutes every single game.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
Yeah, And I think if it's late and close the
way it was the other night in New Orleans, it's
getting to where it's very difficult to justify leaving him
on the sidelines. And I think for all the talk
that's been out there the last few days, and I
thought it was somewhat overcooked after that Monday loss, because
obviously there's an asterisk you put on that with the officiating. Overall,
the Rockets actually, at least in the fourth quarter, executed
(07:42):
really well offensively down the stretch in that game, but
it was Reed Shepherd that sparked them. He was the
guy that hit a couple of big threes, that was
running the offense for stretches, And when you look at
these big games that they've had against the top tier,
excluding the first two, when I think he clearly wasn't
read a knee a little bit of seasoning ever since
(08:03):
that Spurs Cup game, start with the San Antonio one,
and then you look at these three against Denver, so
two of them he was lights out today, and the
first game against Denver he was probably your best player
over those two games. Now, I think today Kevin was
probably a little bit better overall. But I'd say for
the two games, the home Cup game and the one tonight,
Reid was probably a little bit better because if you recall,
(08:25):
Kevin struggled in that home game against the Nuggets, and
then the other night, Reid had a bad first half.
I think he started oh of six, But from midway
through that game and then the super high leverage moments
he stepped up. He delivered. And so I think against
really good teams, you're disproportionately likely to be in close
(08:46):
games against The Rockets were good enough today not to
really be pushed. But in most of these games, you
can't expect to beat a team like the Nuggets, especially
on the road by like fifteen plus points to where
there's not even relevant possession in the fourth quarter. And
I just think that his combination of shot making and
shot creation is so important because the big question for
(09:09):
this Rockets team Kevin Durant. Even at thirty seven, he's
still Kevin Durant. We've covered that, but what's going to
happen when teams send that second defender or if it's
a game where refs let it be a little chippy.
They have some long defenders that can get away with
some physicality. Where do the Rockets turn if Kevin Durant
isn't able to initiate offense when it matters most. And
(09:31):
Shin Gooon and the men have had moments this season,
especially Shangoon, but against the top tier it hasn't been
as consistent as you like. And so I think having
read out there as a third guy that can really
create and shoot at a high level, I think that's
just so important. And obviously there are questions with regards
to the defense. We saw Jamal Murray hunt him a
(09:53):
few times on switches in the second half. But the
thing is Dave for the season as a whole I
looked it up. Reach Shepherd is tied going into today
for the second best defensive rating on the team or
second lowest. You know, so that can certainly be misleading,
But what I do think it speaks to is that
the Rockets are not getting torched defensively when he's on
(10:15):
the court. It's not like every time he goes on there,
that the Rockets are just getting run out of the
gym and that it's just a layup line that's not happening. Now.
Am I saying read Shepherd is the second best defensive player.
Absolutely not. But what I'm saying is that when the
overall performance is still passable, it shows you that the
Rockets are able to scheme around it. It shows you
that reads turnovers are able to make an impact and
(10:39):
sort of offset some of those low lights. Imayudoka is
a really creative coach and you're sort of letting him shine.
You know, it's not easy asking an undersized twenty one
year old to play high leverage minutes and you know,
stop guys like Jamal Murray. But maybe ima Udoka is
the perfect coach for this. And when you look at
the balance of the season, the defense is really not
(11:00):
slipping in those Reed Shepherd minutes to the extent that
you would think if you just look at him and
you look at the scouting reports. So with that said,
if Red's not getting towards defensively, and we can clearly
see what he does offensively and disproportionately against the better teams,
look what he's done these three games against the Nuggets,
the Spurs Cup game. If the defense is passable, and
(11:23):
it has been, I don't know what the justification is
for leaving him on the sidelines late in a close game.
To me, it's not even so much about the point
guard thing anymore. It's just about the shot making and
the shot creation. It's so valuable. And we talked about
the math. You know, the Rockets got up thirty five
threes tonight to twenty nine for the Nuggets. That was
a weakness for this team earlier in the year, losing
(11:45):
the math advantage. Well, it's sort of tough to lose
the math advantage where you can turn Red loose and
you know, he goes six of nine from three.
Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, we've talked about this before. Ben. I don't want
to speak for you. I'm just going to keep it real.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
You know, I look at san Antonio and Okay See,
and I've mentioned a little bit of this on the
show before, but I'm just being honest here. I worry
a little bit about that. You know, that core the
Rockets have, they're very good. I think they're very close.
But I look at san Antonio, it looks really good.
I look at okay See, they're young, it looks really good.
I think Reid, to me, is the X factor on
(12:18):
whether the Rockets are as good or better than those teams.
Like I really feel that way, Like that's what I think.
There's a special offensive player in here for sure. I
mean he's gonna be I'm sure a little streaky here
and there, but honest to goodness, just like the Golden
State game tonight looked very Curry like. I mean there
was that play where remember where Jabari was in the
(12:38):
corner and they messed up the spacing and Reid was
there too, and I think a men it was in transition,
it kicked it out and he just caught it all
in one motion, launched that thing and he'd already hit
one just before that, and I'm just like, this guy
is pulling another Curry moment. He has that potential. I'm
not saying he's Steph Curry. I'm not saying that's that's
(13:00):
you know for sure what he's going to become. But
this kind of game reminds me of Steph a lot,
so I think that to me, he is such an
important player as far as how good this team can be.
I think Shangoon Jabbari a Men, really good Core Tari,
which we haven't even seen yet, really good core. I'm
(13:20):
not sure how it grades out compared to some of
those others, but when you add Read in there, I
think it's it's, uh, you know what he could be.
I think it's potentially great.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
And I think it can also help Shangoon and a
Men in their development by alleviating some of the pressure.
I think for this particular season, so much of it's
gonna come down to, Yay, we figured out the volume.
There we go.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
It's my fault, guys, Yeah, it's it's mine. We got it,
fixed it.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
That's the biggest win of all. No getting back to
Reid and not just what he means individually, but I
think for the team overall, I think where this season
is going to get decided. We can see this from
a mile away. Kevin Durant is still Kadi. He commands
a ridiculous amount of respect, especially in late game situations.
(14:09):
And what's going to happen when opposing defenses decide that
they aren't gonna let Katie beat them? And we've seen
at times Shangoon and a Men, especially Shangoon step up,
but it's been, you know, not as consistent as you
would like, and that's to be expected. These guys are
twenty two and twenty three years old and asking them
to be, you know, the second and third best players
(14:32):
on a bona fide championship contender, it's a lot like
they are both still developing as players. And so if
you put Reid into that mix, I'm not saying Reid
is necessarily going to be a better player than either
of them, but just as another offensive engine, it can
really alleviate the pressure, whereas so much of it it
feels like has to be Shingoon or A Men, and
(14:54):
if they're struggling and they're having a bad night, then
it just spirals because teams are going to commit even
more resources to KD and so I think for this
particular team, this isn't meant to you know, wave the
white flag on on Shingoon or Men as a bona
fide number two and a contend They're absolutely not no,
But I do think, you know, we've seen a little
(15:16):
bit this month, Like there was one narrative I never
bought into. There was this talk when people were doing
their quarter season reviews, when the Rockets had that hiatus
at about the twenty game mark a couple of weeks ago,
people are asking, you know, is KD or ALP the
best player on the team. Let's not get carried away.
It's it's Kevin Durant. Like Alp is doing a lot
(15:37):
of really good things statistically, and he's still a very
valuable player. But a lot of the numbers he puts
up are due to the extraordinary attention that Kevin Durant draws.
And that's why, especially in high leverage situations late in games,
there's a reason opposing coaches are committing so many resources
to KD. And so it's going to come down to
(15:58):
how your non KDL players, what can they do in
the half court laid in close games? And there have
been moments for Shangoon and a Men, but is it
enough to beat you know, the Oklahoma City Thunder four
times out of seven, or other good teams like the
Nuggets and Spurs that don't seem far behind them. That's
the question. I'm not saying they can't, but I would
feel a lot better about it if you also add
(16:21):
read to that formula. Like for me, I guess the
way I would bring it full circle. Whatever defensive downgrade
there is from playing Reed Shepherd in your closing lineup,
to me, it is far less important. I will gladly
take that trade off in exchange for having a third
creator out there alongside Shangoon and a men to alleviate
(16:44):
that pressure in those scenarios where Katie gets double. To me,
I just I can see it from a mile away, Dave,
the season's going to be determined by in the playoffs.
Kad draws that double, he draws those physical defenses. What
do the other four players do? And I don't see
how you can't feel better if reach Upper was one
of those other four players.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, absolutely, couple, you know, and he had a couple
of moments tonights, his patented sort of strip as they're
bringing the ball up and go the other way, including
one that kind of you know, I don't want to
say the Nuggets were totally challenging at the very end,
but they did put a little scare into the Rockets
and he kind of iced the game with a steel and.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
Dunk going the other way. Two moments you kind of
alluded to him.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
One of them was the Bruce Brown blocking Reed Shepherd
off the baseline jumper and Bruce Brown barked at him
and got in his face. They really got up in
his face because I'm sure he was very frustrated. Reid
had just been cooking all night long, and Reid just
got right back at him and just yelled at him.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Love that moment.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
The other was mentioned here in the in the chat
as well, about the the Katie finger point, you know,
the little dance running back after he nailed that shot.
That was beautiful too. You could see the full you know,
Katie Twitter troll come out in him in that moment,
and I'm sure it's going to go viral in a
bunch of ways tonight. But yeah, I mean just was
(17:59):
fun to watch. Those two were amazing. They were definitely
the two stars. There was a third that was pretty
darn close. I thought he was really good both ends
of the floor, and that's Jabari Smith Junior tonight after
a total dud of a game in New Orleans against
the Pelicans where you know, he and Shannghoon were kind
of the guys that were, you know, the dogs sort
of speaking that game. Jabari just really bounced back in
(18:22):
a big way tonight, hit five triples. He just looked
really good on both ends of the floor. I don't
know what your thoughts were on Jabari tonight.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
Yeah, I thought he looked really really good. And I
thought there was a nice tweet from Matt Moore HP
Basketball on Twitter talking early in the game about Rockets
Twitter being too low on Jabari Smith Junior and not
realizing his value as a connector. I just think it's
so easy for those secondary pieces around the stars, like
they're going to catch so much criticism because nobody wants
(18:52):
to to single out I got to do it in
the mirror a few times before I do it on
YouTube us that up. But I think it's very easy
to sort of blame the ancillary pieces, which Javari Swift
Junior is, because we all want to give you know,
Kevin Durant and all pri and Shangoon are all stars
for a reason, and we think Amn Thompson has all
(19:14):
star potential and so it's easy to give guys like
that the benefit of the doubt. You know, maybe not
a mend because he hasn't got to the all star
level yet, and he certainly got his share of criticism too,
But the point is there's sort of a sliding scale
and that you know, the longer your resume is, the
more likely you're going to get the benefit of the doubt.
And even if you have a bad night, people sort
of look the other way. And if you don't have
(19:37):
that long resume, and even if you are providing a
lot of value. And there's a reason why both Fred
and KD on Fred's podcast that they tape this week
when I are their way to talk about Javari being
so important to this team and having grown so much
the last few months under KDE's tutelage. There's a reason
they're saying those things like they see it. But in
a situation where the game's getting away from you, you
(19:57):
have a couple of losses, and if Jabari has a
cold shoe night, it's very easy for him to be
piled on, for everyone to just sort of put all
their frustrations in that bucket because it's less convenient for
us to call out the big guns who we do
believe in, and we think they're going to turn it around,
and they probably will, but the team's probably going to
turn it around as well. I mean, they're seventeen and
(20:18):
eight through twenty five games for a reason. Even with
this month being underwhelming, they're still in a very good
place in the West. And so yeah, Jabari is just
in a tough spot, like it's so difficult. It's funny
they're playing Denver tonight. It reminds me a little bit
of before the year. I thought it was so silly
that people were saying that Cam Johnson would be a
clear upgrade over Michael Porter Junior. Like I'm not saying
(20:39):
he's been bad, but look what MPJ has been doing
in Brooklyn. He looks really good. What happens is that
when you're in that third or fourth banana role on
a contender alongside Gokitchen Murray, it's so easy for any
MPJA bad night to get blown out of proportion, for
him to be the whipping boy, especially in social media
and message board culture, and I think to some extent,
(21:00):
and that's the role not saying Javari is exactly like
MPJA is a player, But I think just in terms
of the hierarchy of this team, that's sort of how
he fits in. And so if he has a cold
shooting night, especially if he shoots a lot in volume,
people are going to pile on. But when you look
a little bit deeper, Yeah, he's still making a clear impact.
And defensively, I know people have been frustrated this month.
(21:20):
I still contend he's been moving on the perimeter much
better this season than he did last season. I think
you can see the work he did on his body
paying off, and I just think tonight it was more
the rest of the roster, and it starts with the interior,
you know, the matchups. Earlier this week, we talked about
Shongoon's defensive struggles in recent games. Steven Adams had zero
rebounds the first game againt the Nuggets a few nights ago. Yeah,
(21:43):
the rim protection was a lot better tonight. And when
the rim protection is better, when those centers are defending
the way they're capable of, then I think the perimeter
pieces like Javari are inherently going to look a lot better.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Yeah, you know, it's he had a great block on
Valanciunis tonight, which was really nice.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
There was another drive.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
It was five point swing there. Yeah, there was a
dunk that Sabari blocked and then he hit a three
on the other end. I think it would have been
seven instead it was twelve, I want to say, midway
through the third quarter. Not sure if that's the one
you're referencing, but it was a huge momentum swing in
the game, and Jabari had both the block and the three.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You know, we joked before the season started with Jalen
Green gone who was going to be the sort of
scapegoat of the year. You know, I think Jalen and
Fred got that talk a lot last year. I put
all my money on Jabari. That hasn't really been the case,
but I definitely saw that after the last game. I
saw a lot of trade Jabari, a lot of you know,
stuff like that. I totally agree with what Matt's saying.
(22:35):
I think rockets Twitter. I'll unfortunately a lot of it,
and there's a lot of great fans there too, but
a lot of it is is what they're now calling PRA,
which is just points, rebounds assists. Is did you fill
up the box score as opposed to are you impacting winning?
And I think what's amazing. I don't think I can
say this as much about Jabari in previous years. It
was starting to show up last year, but I think
(22:57):
it's really showing up this year. He's impacting winning significantly.
I think he's having a I think he's got elite
role player potential. I don't know if people are excited
about that.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
I am. I look at especially on the contract, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
And Ian I look at somebody like Draymond Green as
an elite role player, and in another context you could
call that a superstar.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
He's not.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
You're not going to hand him the ball and he's
going to go to work and do a bunch of
juke moves and get you twenty and ten and ten
or something every night. But you know, Jabari fills the
cracks around superstars in a big way. And he's got
great size, he's got the ability to shoot from outside.
I thought it was a great showing from him tonight.
I was happy to see it because you know, he's
(23:38):
been he's been struggling a little bit from three point
range last a little bit while. For him to break
out from three tonight was great.
Speaker 3 (23:44):
And Steven Adams, I mentioned earlier, he didn't have zero
rebounds tonight like he did the other night. He had twelve.
So what a huge swing to go from zero rebounds
against the same team on Monday to twelve tonight. And Kevin,
you know, we talked about the shot making and you know,
for all the trash talk, which is great, it's not
that the Rockets didn't have it in the past. You know,
(24:05):
Dylan Brooks in particular, we're talk trash, but the trash talk,
the vocal leadership hits a little bit different when you
can back it up by scoring thirty, which KD is
much more capable of doing than Dylan Brooks. So I
think just the intangible standout, but also the willingness to
throw their body into harm's way. Kad mentioned his postgame quote,
what it stands out, extra juice, extra energy. KD with
(24:25):
six rebounds, Steven Adams with twelve. That's your two vets
who have a ton of mileage on their bodies. And
you know, Steven's probably gonna rest tomorrow in Sacramento because
he's not playing both ends and back to backs at
this point. So he left it all on the court tonight,
eighteen rebounds between them, and if you're not giving up
the second chance opportunities and if you're protecting the rim.
That's why I really think so much of what's happened
(24:47):
this month. You know, some of it's been just absences.
Shinggoon missed a couple of the games while sick, Steven
Adams missed a couple of games on back to backs.
Some of it's been just under performances. We talked about
Shingoon's issues, We've talked about, uh Steven the zero rebounds
being an outlier, but I just think a lot of
what we've talked about with the defense comes down to
the rem protection not being what we're used to, and
(25:08):
quite frankly, it's a clear outlier like this is an
emy Udoka coach team. You know, one reason why to
go back to the Read Shepherd discussion briefly, that I'm
inclined to put Reid on the floor. I will gamble
on the side of trusting emy Udoka's creativity on defense
before I gamble on trusting emy Udoka's ability to figure
it out offensively without Read Shepherd and also without Fred
(25:29):
Binfleet to me, without Fred and given what e may
can do defensively, it's all the easier, at least in
my opinion, to just trust that he'll be able to
figure it out. And so I think that's that's the
conundrum late in games, and I think they'll increasingly err
on the side of read Shepherd based on what we've
seen this week, especially against the really good competition. But
(25:51):
then overall, it's like so many of these these defensive
concerns from from Reid to Jabbari to anyone else in
the road. If you have Shinoon and Steven available and
playing at a higher level than they have for most
of this month, and they should. I mean, we saw
them do it in November when this was you know,
they ended November ranked number two in the NBA in defense.
(26:12):
I think it's pretty clear going into tonight. They were
number sixteen in defensive rating in December. That's an outlier.
This is a good defensive team. Once the interior figures
it out, and I think I think they will, it's inevitable,
then so many other things are gonna are going to
fall in line, Like a lot of the things people
picked on with Jubari and the perimeter, Like I don't
care how good your perimeter defense is, you're gonna get
(26:32):
blown by from time to time. In today's NBA, like
it's a dribble penetration league, guys are quicker than ever.
It's tougher to defend without fouling because of how the
game's officiated. You need that rim protection. It wasn't always there,
but you can see in the rebounding data tonight they
were much more spry, they were much more springy. KD
this week has shown an increased willingness to you know,
protect the rim as well. And so if you have that,
(26:52):
if you have that protection near the rim, then the
guys like Reid and Jabari are going to hold up
magically much better.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
In a couple other notes, just as as we get
ready to close here one, you know, we kind of
if everything pans out the way we hope, the Rockets
would be two or three in the West. I mean,
they're not there right now. I don't know what they
are after this win, but they were fifth I think
coming into this game, and Minnesota just got a big
win over OKC and they're they're hanging around at six.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is these
(27:18):
two teams, Rockets and Nuggets, could face each other in
the second round of the playoffs this year. If it
goes as we hope or expect. The good I thought
was a good sign is the both of these games,
the Rockets got Jokicic in foul trouble. You know, they
fouled him out in the first game and then this one,
you know, and there was certainly that controversial one just
before the half. You and I discussed this, that he
wasn't really set Jokicic wasn't Shan Gun did kind of
(27:41):
barrel through him. They reviewed it and it would have
been Jokic's fourth foul just before the half, but they
upheld it as a foul on Shangun instead.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
He just he basically was struggling.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
They didn't, in my opinion, officiated him like an MVP
because he, like both times, had real foul trouble against
this Rocket team. So hopeful that's a good sign. If
these two teams do face each other and one other
setup Rockets play the Kings tomorrow. I don't know if
we're going to do a show or not. I know
Ben can't make it tomorrow. We may do it. It's
going to be a late show. But I don't think
the Rockets have won a second game of back to
(28:13):
back this year. This is the third back to back
if I'm remembering correctly, and it is the Kings, the
lowly Kings. They have really struggled this year. I'm assuming
we'll see Adams out. I don't know if we'll see
Tari back. I'm I'm expecting no, because we've felt the
last two or three games now that he was going
to come back. You know that this is a big
game in the sense that it's kind of a trap,
very similar to the Pelicans, and it's the second game
(28:35):
of a back to back, which you haven't won yet
this year.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
And also to your point on the standings, there's also
a world where I hope this doesn't apply to the Rockets.
I hope they take off. And we mentioned the schedule
getting weaker starting with you know, this game, You've got
the rest of this month, the Kings, the Clippers, the Lakers,
who are tough, but they won't have Austin Reeves in
all likelihood, the Calves who are teetering. Then you've got
you know, the Pacers, the net the MAVs, the Suns,
(29:01):
the Trailblazer Swites. It's a pretty soft schedule for the
next ten to twelve games, and so hopefully the Rockets
were able to establish themselves in that two to three range.
But also if there's a top six and there's the
clear top five now and let's say the Timberwolves join,
there could be an incentive. I hope it's not the
Rockets they are looking at this, but to drop to
six so that you're on that you know, two three
line instead of on course to play Oklahoma City in
(29:24):
round two, which would be if you're the four to
five like we saw Minnesota as the six last year
and they got to the Western Conference Finals by avoiding
the OKC side of the brackets. So small thing to
keep in mind. I hope that doesn't apply to the Rockets.
But yeah, the in the short term, like this was
the stabilizing win they needed it. This proved that, you know,
nothing is just catastrophically off the rails, like Ema Udoka
(29:45):
Kevin Durant's messages, they are getting through. And so now
this is the point in which, you know, I know
there are reasons for it back to backs, but look,
relative to the spreadsheet, they've lost games this month that
they should have won in Utah, in New Orleans. These
are the games, the Kings and the Clippers. You are
better than these teams, even on night too, back to backs,
(30:07):
look Reed Shepherd, Jabari Smith all for in Shaoon, Amen Thompson.
They've got fresh legs, they're young. Let them run. Clint
Cappella didn't have to play tonight. I don't think he
should be fresh, replacing Steven as the backup center. Let
them eat. Trust your young guys, you know, play capella
a little bit more if you need it. That's why
you signed the third string veteran center and get this win.
(30:28):
Because I think tonight, you know, tonight shows the upside
is there. If you had any concerns about can they
beat top tier competition, I think that, you know, we
can dial that down a little bit at the moment. Now.
The next thing is can they bring their effort more consistently.
That's what I'm looking for the next couple of games,
like they've stabilized, they show the upside is still there. Now,
can they get back to the consistency they had in
November to where you know, like we saw that road
(30:50):
trip where they just ran through Toronto, and Boston and
they were just bludgeting teams. Let's get back to that.
Let's see them go and beat up on teams like
the Kings and Clippers that went healthy, the Rocket should
be able to beat by ten plus points. Yep.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Absolutely, And on that spreadsheet, Rockets with the loss to
the Pelicans, fell behind by one on their pace and
then tonight win a game that I had down as
a loss. So they're right back on on that spreadsheet.
So fifty six fifty seven win pace looking good, So
huge win tonight, Rockets. Lots of positive signs read Shepherd
(31:22):
being probably the biggest in the sense of there's there's
real potential here for a point guard an engine. I
like this how I would probably describe it, or a
primary had a terrific game, great shooting performance, and showed
some real playmaking promise.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
That's Ben Dubos.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
I'm Dave Harsty, appreciate all of you guys watching, and
we will be back soon. Thanks everybody,
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