January 1, 2026 • 40 mins
With a New Year’s Day blowout in Brooklyn, the Rockets (21-10) have now won four straight games. Thursday’s “ClutchFans Live” postgame show— featuring Ben DuBose, Dave Hardistry, and Michael Shapiro of Chron.com — breaks down all the key takeaways after a 24-point victory over the Nets.
Topics include the healthy return of Alperen Sengun; another big game from Kevin Durant; and positive signs from the “terror twins” duo of Amen Thompson and Tari Eason.
Topics include the healthy return of Alperen Sengun; another big game from Kevin Durant; and positive signs from the “terror twins” duo of Amen Thompson and Tari Eason.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Happy New Year, everybody, welcome into the show. Rockets get
a huge win tonight in Brooklyn one twenty to ninety
six over the Nets. Alpern Shangun returns plays really well,
an extremely balanced attack across the board. I'm here with
Ben Dubos, who you're used to seeing. Ben with us
as well, but as well cron dot com writer Michael
(00:23):
Shapiro's with us as well.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Michael.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's honestly an honor to have you with us. Excited
to hear your insight on what you see from the
Rockets as you know, as well as what you've kind
of discovered and seen. I know you talked to Tarry
Easton in the video where Tarry said that you know
he wants to start, and you were the one who
asked him that question. So I know you'll have some
great insight. But I'll start with you, Michael. What was
your thoughts, you know, watching this game tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, a nice kind of win for the Rockets to
kick off the new year of one twenty ninety six.
I think the thing that we've seen that we've seen
time and again this year, this is such a talented
offensive group and offensive roster, especially when they are full.
Alperah and Shngun being the hub of that is obviously
a key piece. He was pretty dominant, I think from
the get go tonight who's really engaged in active. But
when you have albri and Kevin Reed Shepard, you know,
(01:11):
there's just so much offensive talent on this roster right now.
I think when they play middling two weeks god squads
like this, you know they're really going to kind of
smack them, I think more often than not the rest
of the season.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, we didn't see that in December when they lost
to the Pelicans, the Kings, the Jazz, the MAVs, but
there were some extenuating circumstances on a lot of those
being night two of back to backs, and this is
their fourth straight win. They're now twenty one to ten,
and I feel good that Alpi gets to enjoy it
for a change because he missed the last two with
Cap Titaness. So he returns plays thirty four minutes is
(01:41):
plus thirty. That's obviously the leading storyline. We've talked in
recent games about the defensive improvement, and inevitably, when you
see the defensive growth in Shangun's not out there followed
by a month in which they were or preceded by
a month excuse me, in which they were underwhelming defensively
and Shingoon mostly was out there. Some of those old
question get brought up about Shinoon and his ceiling defensively,
(02:03):
so I thought it was really good for them to
have a nice defensive game tonight with Shingoon certainly pulling
his weight out there. And for me, Michael, you cover
all sports in Houston, so I think you'll appreciate this analogy.
I think what Shin Gooon does, especially against these lesser
teams like the Mets, like the Nets. Excuse me, h,
you got me with the baseball mode there. It reminds
(02:24):
me of a baseball pitcher that consistently throws two hundred innings.
I think a from Ravaldez for the Astros, and that
you really need that over the course of a long
regular season like the NBA, like Major League Baseball, and
you don't always appreciate it until the player is gone,
like we always talk about some of the ceiling guys
for the Rockets, and lately the way Houston's increased the
(02:46):
usage of guys like Kadie, certainly in the absence of
alp and we're always talking about a men in red
and what they can do on ball, But Shinoon, when
you have a low post threat that is as durable
as he typically is and can score the ball at
will inside and you're playing a lesser team with no
rim protection, you're almost guaranteed to win. Like, he gives
(03:09):
you such a high floor that if he's out there
and it's not night to a back to back, i e.
The defense isn't dreadful, you're almost certainly gonna win. And
you know, Shangoun had that strong first quarter and the
Rockets played from in front pretty much the whole way.
And so, Michael, do you sort of see that analogy
where I'm going with the Shangoon to from Brivaldez. Not
that Shangoon has ever crossed up a teammate, but I
think the floor with Shangoon is really really high, and
(03:33):
tonight was a good reminder of that. If he's out
there and you're playing a lesser team, like even if
you have a cold shooting night, which until the fourth
quarter it was for Kevin Durant, You're probably gonna withstand
it because Shangoon's just gonna be able to get the
easy points and the easy assist off of those.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I mean Alburn has a lot of skills, but I
think a winter innings eater, so to speak, is one
of them. I kind of mentioned this today before we
hopped on the air here. I really like when the
Rockets make an active effort to have Alprin eat early.
I think when he it's a couple of quick buckets,
not only is that something for him personally, right, I
think it's just a defensive attention situation where teams and
defenses go, oh crap, Right, this is a night where
(04:09):
we're gonna have to send two three bodies at him.
And it's an Alburn's nature not to just keep scoring
in hook shot, hookshot, hooks shot. Right, He's gonna want
to find guys. He's gonna want to find a maund
cutting lobs. So having him be kind of the active
full crumb from the very first possessions tonight, it kind
of set the tone in this blout when I felt.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Like, right, yeah, he was plus thirty tonight, so you
know when he was out there, you know, they succeeded
for sure, and I thought it was interesting. I thought
early on they doubled KD. That was kind of what
the Brooklyn wanted to do. And KD had five assists,
like in the first five minutes. I think it was
he finished with eleven assists, did have six turnovers, but
they funneled so much tonight through I mean, Shangun was
(04:46):
fantastic as a secondary guy. I think he had six assists,
but KD was kind of almost like the engine and
he was finding Shangun on the roll, and Shangun did
a really good job of playing I thought Downhill a
lot of pressure when he rolled, and in contrast, I
know I mentioned this to Ben in real time. There
was one time when Jabbari played the exact same role
(05:07):
and he got it perfectly and he should have just
rolled with the basket immediately, but he kind of hesitated,
wasn't sure what to do. And I think that was
a you kind of saw what Shnghun's strength, you know,
how he plays well that pick and role in contrast
to some others, and I thought that was really important tonight.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Kevin's sorry to interrupt here, but no, no, yeah, Kevin's
work as a facilitator I think, especially the past couple
weeks in Houston has been really impressive. He's found a
nice couple slip screens to Alpura and for dunks tonight.
He had eight assists on Christmas seven against Cleveland and
then eleven tonight. He was pretty happy. I felt like
on Christmas about the ball movement, how they were just
making the Lakers. Now it is the Lakers defense, which
(05:43):
is pretty disgraceful often, but the Lakers were on skates right,
And Kevin kind of mentioned that post game as he
was getting dressed at they were pinging it side to side,
And I guess maybe this is kind of a dumb
thing to say, or an obvious point. He's a pretty
elite passer, obviously, he's one of the greatest scorers ever.
He sees the four so well, and when he has
players like Alper and like men who can score on
multiple levels of the floor, you see that IQ open up.
(06:04):
And he saw it tonight, which was great.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Yeah, And I thought a men's postgame interview with Vanessa
Richards and the Walcot pointed to the same thing, the
ball movement, and a men tonight had twenty three points
on ten or twelve shooting, so he often was the
finisher rather than the initiator. Often taking advantage of the
gravity of KD and Alperin. But yeah, the board, yep,
the ball movement has been better. And yeah, the two threes.
(06:27):
He had a friendly rim that was one of the
friendliest rims I've ever seen, by the way.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
True, it really was. But I mean, I had to
look it up. He's only hit one. He's only had
one other game this year where he's had more than one,
made three.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And I mean to interrupt, but go ahead and finish
your thought.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I was gonna say a full circle moment. So I
can remember eleven months ago one of the worst Rockets
losses of last season was in that same gym against
the Nets right before the trade deadline in early February.
It was the one where the Nets hit two threes
in the final fifteen seconds when they were down four. Dave,
I'm sure you remember this. The last was by Dangel Russell,
and I was in the building. I had made the
(07:03):
trip to New York. I was there as a fan.
But I can remember getting on the subway to go
back to the hotel after and I must have told
my wife like ten plus times and tweeted one hundred times.
Kevin Durant is begging to be on the Rockets, and
yet Houston doesn't have the sense of urgency. Now, I
think Rafelstone got the last laugh because pretty clearly Houston
was interested in Kevin Durant. It just took waiting until
(07:25):
the price came down, which meant waiting until June, rather
than doing a deal at the trade deadline. I was
so frustrated at the time, because you know, the Rockets
clearly needed a closer. That was the quintessential game against
a lesser team when they led most of the way,
couldn't close it, and Kevin Durant clearly the situation in
Phoenix wasn't working. There were trade rumors at the time,
and it was pretty clear that Houston was on his list.
(07:48):
Just at the time, it didn't make sense for the
Rockets to do the deal and they didn't. Well, almost
a year later now Kevin Durant is a Houston Rocket
and they finished the game in Brooklyn. Well, I guess
they didn't need to finish it because they were up
by so watched thanks to Katie and Alfred that it
wasn't even close down the stretch of the fourth quarter.
I just thought it was a full circle moment. You know,
right for the trade deadline, the Rockets didn't have KD
and blew the game. Tonight, they have KD and they
(08:10):
would going away. I know it's not the same Nets team,
but it's it's a pretty good win. It speaks to,
you know, the value of Kevin Durant, and I just
think he set such a good tone across the board.
Like people throughout this winning streak have talked about his defense, Michael,
you talked about his assist I think Kd's defense has
been so much better this year. There have been a
couple of stats I've seen about how he's one of
(08:30):
the top guys in terms of field goal percentage against
when he's the primary defender in the entire league. I
did not realize that a thirty seven year old KD
would have this much in the tank defensively. And I
see a couple of comments in the chat about Alphren's
defense maybe not being as as good as the plus
minds would indicate. I mean, that's fair that what I
said earlier was referring to the final score one twenty
(08:53):
ninety six. You hold any NBA team below one hundred points,
you did something right defensively, and Shangun was a part
of that. Now, in terms of his matchups coming off
the capstrain, yeah, there's going to be some times that
he gets blown by. I just meant, you know, the
uptick across the board in defense. I don't think that's
simply because Shin Gooon was out, because they performed collectively
better tonight, even with Shin Gooon out there for two
(09:14):
thirds of the game. But Kadi, I mean, I just
did not realize going into this year, and I'm curious
if you two, you know, had similar expectations. I just
did not think at thirty seven years old that he
would have the Jews defensively that he still does. Maybe
it's the competitive environment, maybe it's you know, the head
coach and Imi Udoka.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I don't know. But he's just been a much better
defensive player than I anticipated.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think the environment's a big part of it. And
I gotta say, Ben, that sounds like a story idea
for me to pursue dot com in next coming weeks.
I think Kevin's defense has been impressive and surprising. That's
a good note for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, and I don't know what I expected. I thought
he would fit just because he did it with Golden State.
They were part of a great defensive unit when he
did it there. But obviously, being thirty seven, there's that question.
But yeah, I thought he did a good job. So
I want to We're definitely going to talk a little
bit about, you know, one Thetari story you had, as
well as the story about the Furtida, which was fascinating.
We're to talk about both of those, but I want
to talk about a men real quick before we move
(10:04):
on from that. Ben kind of covered it, but you know,
excuse me. A men was shooting I think true shooting
percentage fifty three point two percent heading into December this
this past you know, December, and was looking I thought
pretty weak. We were wondering what was going on with
the men. He just posted sixty two plus percent true
shooting in the month of December, and then tonight ten
(10:25):
of twelve from the field, twenty three points hit a
couple of threes, which is only going to jack up
that true shooting percentage. He seems to be going back
to that sixty plus percent we saw last year. That's
a great sign to me because I was a little
bit worried, to be honest about what's going on with
a men early on? What have you guys seen. I
know they talked in the post game about him working
extra time with Ben Sullivan, but I don't know what
(10:45):
you guys have seen from a men lately.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Michael, you can take it first.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, sure, you know. With the Ben Sullivan point, we
see him every single game, every practice, post practice. That's
Ben Sullivan work. I mean they are kind of tied
at the hip. When I was kind of when a
men was first coming through on this staff, I would
talk to Ben Sullivan every now and then about a
man as a three point shooter, and he kind of
steered me into a point that it's not about the threes, buddy, Right,
it's about that mid range game, that foul and that
(11:12):
kind of extended area. You're seeing a men more comfortable there.
And I think just the most important point, right is
that he's willing and actively working on it.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
He is not a perfect shooter. The form is still
a little shaky on the three pointer, but he's not
afraid of any shot. And I do think that midrange
Jay it is pretty soft, especially when it's the foul
line in a little bit that's not even totally the
restricted area. He's getting pretty money in that area. And
obviously I think that true shooting percentage is going to
keep shooting up, especially with him in the dunker spot
(11:40):
so often. Right, Like I've never seen a guard. I
guess we call him a guard, kind of a guard, right,
get so many free locks, it's really unbelievable on this team, right, So,
I think his numbers, his shooting percentage will continue to increase.
In terms of how that's going to look in the playoffs,
He's going to be tested, right, I mean, I think
the biggest thing with the men is the turnovers and
the ball handling. The handle is not totally perfectly there
(12:01):
yet it still gets a little kind of slapped around,
poked away in traffic. So I think he's going to
be a real X factor in the playoffs. I mean,
I think he's obviously a fantastic, fantastic player. How much
of a ball handling load will he have? How much
of that can be shorter? That's kind of like a
big thing I think to watch in the next coming months.
Like the Rockets are going to be a playoff team,
They're a very good team. How much is the uncomfortable
(12:22):
leading the offense, driving the charge and how much does
he actually have to do that for Houston. Those are
kind of things I'm going to be watching a lot
the next couple months.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
And apologies for the pause.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
I was looking for a social media post before I commented,
and now I've got it in front of me. On
Christmas Day, Brian Windhorst dropped a very interesting nugget over
on Threads and the Q and A. I noticed it
just today because again he dropped this during the day
on Christmas and I didn't see it at the time,
but someone asked him which Rockets player would cost more
in the trade market, A Men or Shingoon and Wendy's response,
(12:55):
And by the way, I respect Wendy as much as
anybody in the business.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
He's as good as it gets.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Response A Men, but it's irrelevant because he's basically untouchable.
Shingoon probably is too, but the list of who the
Rockets would entertain a deal discussion with him is maybe
a few names longer. Now before anyone leaps to any conclusions,
that's not a shot at Alfred and Shogoon at all.
Wendy is literally saying he's probably untouchable. It's more a
(13:20):
compliment to a Men that even if a guy like Yannis,
a multi time MVP, hits the market, and even if
the Rockets aren't playing that well, there's still no way
the Rockets would consider it. And I guess my question
for the two of you, does that surprise you in
any way?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
For me personally, it does not. However, however high you are.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
When I say you, I mean the listener on a
men Thompson, I suspect the Rockets are even higher. You
cannot possibly express how high they are on a men.
Inside that building, they love the guy. And it's important
to stress this is just year three, the first half
of your three, so yes, there's some clear weaknesses, but
when you look at the totality of the play on
(14:01):
both offense and defense and the areas, he can still
get better over the next couple of years to the
point where he's in year five like Alprin is right now.
It's not a given that a Men's gonna get there,
and it's certainly not saying that a Men is a
better player than al Prin right now. But I think
in terms of projecting the future, there's not many players,
(14:21):
if anyone, in the NBA that the Rockets would trade
him and Thompson for And that's not a shot at all, Perinchhanoon.
It's more just how highly the Rockets view on men
Thompson as a player period. So I just thought it
was fascinating for Wendy to lay it out there that
specifically any surprise from the two of you that that's
apparently how the Rockets feel.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Go ahead, Michael, I definitely have thoughts on this.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Sure, I'll go first and then lead it for you, Dave.
That doesn't necessarily surprise me per se. I mean, I
think we can go all the way back to the lottery,
all the way back in twenty twenty three, right where
the Rockets they were bummed to not get Victor Wembiniama obviously,
but I think from rafel Stone in the front office,
it was like pick two versus pick four. We don't
care like it was a men at that number two
(15:03):
prospect spot. I feel pretty confident saying that reporting that
however you want to put that, and so they are
incredibly high on him. He has yet to hit his
rookie max extension. I don't think obviously that the Rockets
will trade Alpern Shanghun or will trade him and Thompson.
But the fact that they are considered it very Yeah,
that should be said, right, that needs to be said.
But the fact that they're considered very comparable or a
(15:24):
man even a touch ahead makes sense to me also
because a man is just such a malleable piece. He's
in his third year, early in his third year. Again,
I think Alburn is a fantastic player. You can win
a championship with the alper and probably is like your
second best player. I do believe that. But the fact
that he is not as untradable as a men quote unquote,
it's interesting to not surprising. That's what I call it.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, and I know the question was framed as shanguon
or a men, but it really doesn't have anything to
do with Shangoon. It's just as Ben, in my personal opinion,
how he described it as accurate, as in, they view
a man as truly something special like they I know
for a fact, somebody, you know, high up in the
Rocket's office told me, Yeah, if we got the number
(16:08):
one pick, we would have taken Wemby, but we would
have hated not getting Amen Thompson.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
And that's it.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
They got Wemby who's like, you know, the alien, and
so that's how high they were on him. And I
stress that at that time, we were doing live streams
and all that, and you know, I was thinking Scoot Henderson,
and I know all the fans won in Scoot Henderson
and all that. I give the Rockets an enormous amount
of credit. I gained a ton of amount of respect
for the front office because they they were absolutely a
men Thompson over Scoot Henderson. I don't think the mainstream,
(16:35):
you know, just fans, I should say, we're there, including myself.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
I want to transition our discussion to the other half
of the Terror Twins debuts to this earlier. But Michael,
you were on the scene in LA when Tari gave
that interview last week saying I want to start, and
ever since he was that forward, there's been a little
bit of fear from the fan base. And yet when
you look at the numbers now, first off, the Rockets
(17:01):
are four to oh, so you can't complain when the
team's winning. But beyond that, Tari Easton stats individually twelve
and a half points, six and a half rebounds per game,
better than fifty seven percent overall shooting forty six percent
from three sixty five percent true shooting in these four games.
And the reason I'm emphasizing these four games is this
(17:21):
is when his role is flipped. So he's getting what
he asks for, which is the spot in the starting lineup.
He's playing alongside the other high usage guys like Katie,
like Shingoon, Tonight, like a man, and yet it seems
he's perfectly comfortable taking a secondary role. And that speaks
to the shot attempts. He's averaging less than nine field
(17:42):
goal attempts per game. So when you hear that interview,
and we also know it's a contract year for Tari,
He's going to be a restricted free agent this summer.
There's no ifs, hands or bots about it. That's just
the way it works if you don't extend your rookie
scale guy by the start of their fourth season. So
it's a contract year. He's finally getting the chance to start.
I think that was his work, Michael, finally. And so
the fear whenever you see an interview like that is
(18:04):
this guy's going to be all about the counting stats
and he's going to go chuck and he's going to
put up numbers. But it's going to be to the
detriment of the team. And yet it's almost the complete
opposite of that, Like he's working completely within the team construct,
as evidence by the extremely efficient numbers. If anything, you
could argue that maybe he should be more aggressive and
(18:24):
shooting it more so, I guess, Michael, I'm curious your
thoughts since you were asking him some of the questions
you were there. It's just such a fascinating juxtaposition to
be that he wants to start. He clearly has, you know,
big plans for himself. He said at media day. I
can recall him saying he wants more plays run for
him and there were a few raised eyebrows about that.
And yet he gets this opportunity and there's really no
(18:46):
change at all to his style of play. He's more
than happy to play exactly how Imo Ujoka and the
staff want to use him and sort of be the
glue guy instead of making it about him. What do
you make as far as the juxtaposition of his statements
but also his.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Style of play.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, I mean, tari knowing him for a couple of
years now, he's a very eager individual. But I also
want to say he's a very earnest individual.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I think when he says yes, yes, I want to start,
part of that's for him, But part of it, I
think is also that he thinks it's for the betterment
of the unit. Right. I think a lot of that
is that last point that you touched on that email,
and the staff have gotten that collective constant buy in
right where we will put you in a role to succeed,
and that means both for the team but also for
you as a human and individual, a contract, whatever that
(19:29):
may be. Right. I think Also the third kind of
thing to think about is he doesn't need to force
it because he's kind of living in basketball offensive heaven
for his role, right. I mean, so many guys are
converging onto Albrin to Kevin, there's people on AMN. He
doesn't need to force things to really get his numbers right,
to score twelve fifteen points a game, ten points a game,
(19:50):
he just needs to kind of hang in the corner,
be a slasher, make a few plays here or there.
And it was something I think it was on social
media this year where he kind of gotten kind of
a Twitter not a spat, but a conversation with someone
He's going you know if I have played instead of
eighteen minutes a night, thirty four minutes the night, here's
what my numbers are. Right. And on one hand, you
can think, well, that's a pretty simple extrapolation. I don't
agree with that, but it speaks to his mindset right
(20:13):
where he's saying, if I have my minutes, I don't
need to do anything different. I just physically need the
minutes to get the numbers that I see fit or
to be the kind of player I see fit. So
it was a pretty funny and interesting comment that he
made in the Lakers locker room at Staple Center. Sorry
Crypto dot com, Marina. Right, it started even funnier. He
goes he steps up to us and Tracy Rockett's pr
(20:33):
says we have to be quick because he has to
go see his family or whatever. Great, that's fine, And
the first thing he says he goes, man, he may
finally trusted me tonight with the start and goes this
little monologue. I'm thinking, well, it seems like he wants
to start, right. So I just asked him and he
gave a point blank yes, yes I do. But I
really didn't interpret that as a me guy kind of thing.
I really interpreted as a I just think it's best
for everyone, for me, for us, and it just really
(20:56):
speaks to both him as a person and the culture
that he may has instilled. They're like this, I think,
by the way, there's sometimes friction with the two of them,
but they're very similar personalities in a lot of ways.
They're very similar competitors. So and he may set it himself.
Sorry to go on like this, but hey, I don't
mind guys saying they want to start. I don't mind
guys kind of voicing what they want, right, And he
(21:16):
may took it into account. He started the past few
games and it's working. If it doesn't work, we'll go
away from it. It's that no egos kind of thing
with the rockets, right. So I just think it's such
a nice ecosystem and part is along and short of it.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
And Dave, I'm curious your thoughts about the long term
implications of this, because if this continues, and the caveat
that we have to keep restating it's a small sample
four games. This is nothing conclusive just yet. But if
he sticks in the starting lineup, I can't help but
think that that it increases his value quite a bit
long term because to this point, you know, you can
(21:50):
look at all the per thirty six stats you want,
but he's been used in a very specific way in
which he comes in as the six man, largely against backups,
and the question is, how is it gonna extrapolate to
a starting role if you ask him to do more
against the best of the best, against starters, if he's
asked to function more in a half court setting alongside
(22:12):
guys like Kevin Durant and alpahin Shangoon. There have been
all these questions if this continues, if he takes this
vacant starting lineup spot and makes it his, Because even
if Fred Binvliet somehow comes back, I don't think he's
going to be anywhere near a point where you could
ask him to play thirty plus minutes. If Tari is
able to function in this role as opposed to the
six man role that he's largely occupied the first three
(22:34):
years to his NBA career, I mean this makes him
all the more important long term, right, the fact that
he's not just a one trick pony, that his production
can scale up and it can hold when used in
different areas, including the most important areas.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I totally think so, and they've had tremendous success when
he starts. I mean, what's the record going back to
last year. I think it's like fifteen or sixteen and
one or something like that. And you know, yeah, he's
been amazing. I'm amazed by the jump in three point
sh tonight. He was two for two, hit six of
seven from the field. He had a pull up like
from eighteen feet tonight. I was like, you know, just
a little stop on a dribble, step back and nailed it.
(23:08):
I was like, what is going on with tar? I mean,
I'm amazed how well he's playing. I'm not shocked because
he is an impact player. He's got these oven mits
for hands. He can get out there and just you know,
cause Havoc certainly, I just wonder, and I think you're right,
doesn't matter this year because I think Fred comes back.
It's not going to be like plug and play start
and I don't think Reid has to start this year,
(23:29):
but just long term because we are looking at a contract.
There obviously was some sort of disagreement on the contract.
We don't know those details, but you know, and then
you balance that with the injury that he kind of
you know, had this year, which I think is probably
a sticking point just given that his reliability hasn't been
there from the injury standpoint. That's the only question I have.
But I think for this year this is like, this
is an embarrassment of riches. I mean, where they're doubling
(23:51):
those guys, you could throw it to read. You can't
even leave Reid open for a second. We saw that tonight.
Tari Jabari, Amen, Shanngoon, all of these guys when they
had those five on fours, they do they do. They're
very effective. So Tari's been excellent. I think he is.
He has played his way this year into basically bet
on himself, and he's going.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
To pay off. I think.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
All right, before we wrap up, Michael, I want to
tee you up to talk about a couple of your
recent stories at crin dot com, because I think there's
some fascinating longer term implications for this franchise. And I
mentioned earlier the return of Katie to Brooklyn and also
the return of the Rockets to Brooklyn for the first
time since that debacle last February, and having KD the
(24:34):
way they didn't last year. Of all people. It was
Jalen Green who missed the potential winner at the buzzer
in that game after the D'Angelo Russell three basically stole
that game from the Rockets. And now you have Katie.
You win with these Katie going up against his old team.
And I think it's so fascinating that the Rockets were
willing to wait until the offseason, because if you're reading
(24:55):
the tea leaves, if you're reading the reports that were
out there, the Rockets were the second or third seed
in the West at the time, and Kevin Durant is
Kevin Durant, and he had made it clear that he
was open to coming to Houston. And yet the Rockets
didn't do the deal at that time. They waited until
the price came down to something that made more sense
for them given his age and what they would have
(25:15):
to give up in terms of their existing young core.
And to me that that signals the role of Patrick Furtida.
If it was just Tilman, I think back to, you know,
the Russell Westbrook trade, Dave. I'm sure you remember the
you know, my front office got a little weak in
the knees at the end, remember that claiming, you know,
the final five yards of the CP Russ trade, and
(25:36):
I think for Tilman, a relatively new owner at the time,
you know, Russ was definitely the splashyar guy relative to
Chris Paul at the time, just like Kevin Durant a
year ago would have been the splash guy. And I'm
certainly not comparing Katie to Russ as a player, just
looking at it from the standpoint of an owner that says, hey,
I can bring in a former MVP. This is gonna
you know, move merchandise, sell more tickets. The Rockets had
(25:57):
that opportunity, they could have added Kevin Durant to a
two seed, and yet they said, hey, it's not worth
it because to do it at this price point would
take away from our longer term formula. So they waited
a few months, they did it in the off season,
and here here we are. It feels like you've basically
swapped out Jalen Green for Kevin Durant. But by and large,
especially with Dory and Phinny Smith now sort of backfilling
(26:17):
Dylan Brooks role, you sort of have the framework of
last year's team, but with KD instead of Jalen Green
as the tip of the spear scorer, and I think
that was always the vision.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
So, Michael, you.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Wrote about the relationship between Tilman and Patrick, and Patrick's
you know, increasing role the last few years of the Rockets.
Technically he's alternate governor and really that makes him governor
most of the time since Stillman's ambassador to Italy right
now and not even in Houston majority of the time.
What have you seen from from Patrick Parcida as you've
gotten to know him as you wrote this story, getting
to sort of witness his interactions around the organization. Is
(26:50):
that a good illustration of sort of I guess his
style and his focus and what he tries to you know,
the leadership he tries to exert, and the areas that
he tries to steer this organization in.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yeah, I think with Patrick it's a lot of selective aggression,
is the best way I would put it. And I
think that's just very much in step with rafel Stone, right.
There's not a recklessness to the way the Rockets do things.
They have a lot of process. So I spoke to
Tillman and Patrick in the tunnel at Toyota Center on
Saturday night, I want to say, right last weekend, and
(27:25):
Tilman was in town for a few days. He's flying
back to Italy. I don't know if he's army back
there yet. Safe flight, Tilman, if you haven't fallen back yet.
But I kind of chatted with them about Patrick's increased
role in recent years. What does Tilman think of the
way the organization is trending, And it seems like basically
Patrick's point to me was, this is far from my
first rodeo, right. I am in a new role so
(27:45):
to speak, with Tilman gone, but he's been learning from
the feet of I would say, the front office at
large for the past what five six seven years? It's
been a while, and so he is in a position
now where he very much defers to Rafel, very much
deffer to the front office. But he is an active
voice in the whole process, and I would say he's
a voice that is a calming one. He is definitely
(28:06):
not the same kind of personality as his dad, totally.
I kind of tried to pull them both for an interview.
Patrick said, you know, Tillman, you're you know, you're in town.
Why don't you just take this? And Tilman kind of goes, Patrick,
get on in here too, and you know, he's a
very kind of thoughtful speaker. I would say, right, he's
talking about you know, we don't really care so much
about December. We're thinking about April, We're thinking about twenty
(28:28):
six and twenty seven. So I think Rockets fans should
just feel really good that the guy in charge right now,
with Tilman gone, the facto in charge. You know, he
might be thirty one, but he's I don't want to
say wise beyond his years, but he's just a very
thoughtful and process oriented individual, which kind of fits this
Rockets front office as a whole. Tillman goes, it's obviously
we can beat all good teams. I think we can
(28:48):
be anyone in the league. And Patrick kind of goes,
let's see how we look in May, right, Yeah, between
the fellas, right, and so it wasn't you know, I
would say too opening of an interview or anything, but
I think it further solidified the Rockets leadership structure right now,
even with Tilman gone and Patrick fair it's very solid.
It's very strong.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And can you speak a little bit about like how
they hired Emautok or really they jumped on the guy
that they they knew was WHI yeah, well and extended
him of course is well, but like they they had
line I believe interviews lined up with others and they
just they may interview an Emay and they were like,
that's the guy.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
I don't want to speak for you, but you can
tell us what they kind of told you about that.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, for sure. I mean I don't know if I
can speak to you if they actively canceled or didn't
schedule those interviews back in the day, but I do
know and I can speak to that they had targeted
e May and after you know, some lengthy conversations, they
were pretty stuck on him. E May kind of let
it slip at media Day this year that he had
signed a contract extension with Houston, right, and we had
kind of done some digging found out it's about a
(29:51):
six year commitment about eleven million dollars per year, which
is pretty big commitment to a head coach. You don't
see that too often in the NBA. So I asked
Patrick about that, right, why is Emay the guy you
want to stick with through the decade? And it was
pretty simple. He said, you know, why mess with something
that's good when you know you have your guy, why
play games? Don't complicate it? Right? And so I think
it's a situation where as I said, both with Kevin
(30:13):
Durant and with emy Udoka, when they have their target,
they're going to go after it. Now, I don't think
the Rockets, this is kind of a different conversation maybe
for a different stream. I don't think the Rockets are
going to be massive shark hunters at the trade deadline
over the course of this era of the team. Let's say,
don't assume that Kevin is the only major piece slash
(30:34):
major trade that will be made over the next era. Right,
So that is part of Patrick's m O. They will
not do it recklessly, but they will not close their
eyes and just hope this is it so to speak.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
All right, Well, go ahead, man. And you mentioned Patrick's age.
I actually think he's young.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Age might actually be an attribute in this context because
rafel Stone is the GM. He has the final word
when it comes to basketball operation. So when we talk
about the role of the governor or the ultimate governor,
they're the liaison like they're the bridge between ownership and
signing off on the decisions that were fell makes so
(31:08):
you're not so much asking the person in that seat
to make the decision. What you want is for them
to have some level of knowledge and to not meddle unnecessarily.
And I think with Patrick, he basically started his professional
life when the Fertitas bought the Rockets in twenty seventeen.
I think that was shortly after he had graduated from USC,
So basically all of his formative years he's been learning
(31:31):
on the fly. But as a professional he has been
fully immersed in the NBA for a long time. And
I think where that's different than Tillman. Tilman can certainly
learn about the league, and I think he has over
the nearly nine years that he's owned the team, but
he had a lot of his professional life owning other businesses.
And I think running an NBA team, because of the
sophistication of the audience, because of how high IQ fans are,
(31:54):
because of how much they care about these teams, you
can't pull the wool over eyes of your clients in
the NBA the way you can in a lot of
other businesses. And I go back to the CP Russell
Westbrook trade. Just because it's the splash addition, it's going
to cost you in time if it doesn't lead to
the results that you want on the floor, and so
I think you sort of learned the hard way and
(32:16):
it makes you you know, I think Tilman learned from
that experience. But at the time, he was just in
his third year, second year or whatever it was owning
the team. He hadn't been through that before. And it's
easy to think, Hey, like Russell is a far better
athlete than Chris pall Is. It looked like Chris Fall
that second year in Houston was almost washed.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Let's just go with.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
The splash move and sell more tickets, move more merchandise.
There's a buzz factor two former MVPs, and let's see
where it takes us. And even if it doesn't lead
to a title whatever, it's gonna be good for the
bottom line well in the long run. Like in this industry,
fans care so much. It doesn't matter what the initial
press conference reactions are. If you're not winning games and
you're in a bad spot the way the Rockets were
(32:54):
a year later, coming out of the bubble, you're going
to be in trouble. And so I think because of
that experience, but also, you know, Patrick's sort of watching
all these other teams around the NBA. He takes much
more of a long view, right. That's been my impression
is that you know he's not going to make a move,
you know, not doing the KD trade this time a
year ago is a purpose example, just to make a
splash acquisition. It's got to make sense. It's got to
be on their terms. I think Tilman is there now
(33:16):
as well, in large part due to Patrick's influence and
Patrick sort of guiding him. And in that sense, I
think having a younger guy who's gotten fully immersed in
the NBA, I mean it's a it's a benefit, right,
Like he knows the NBA inside out in a way
that you know, Tilman, with all his other interests at
the time, at least in the late twenty tens, it
just wasn't reasonable to expect him to have that level
of knowledge.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yeah, I mean that basketball is Patrick's mein slash ONNY business.
I think that's the best, the best way to put it.
That was his finishing school, I would say, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yep, Yeah, I just say just from my own standpoint
going through that whole thing, I was a big Daryl
Morey guy. And when he was out and then there
was talk of you know, the the owner's son is
going to take over some of the basketball side of it.
I was pretty nervous about it, you know, and very
you know, a suspicious I guess, and just how well
they were doing. And I think that we're very fortunate now,
is how I would say. I feel very good about
(34:04):
their decision making and how they've assessed talent. I mean,
look at even what they said about Reid. I know
Stephan Castle has been great, but they were super high
on Reid and at least as far as the top
two guys. You know, Reid does look like he's got
the potential to be what they've talked about, and certainly
in a man over Scoot and a lot of other
decisions they've made. So yeah, I'm very happy with with
(34:24):
the Fertitas and how they've built the rockets up to
this point. Ben Michael, anything you guys want to say
before close up?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
One last topic for Michael, and it's related to the Fertitas. So,
the Tilban and Patrick story was one of your good
reads at Crown dot Com in late December. Your other,
which I think generated even more waves, was your confirmation
that the WNBA to Houston with obviously Tilman being the
primary financial backer, there is close to done and we're
(34:52):
talking about the twenty seven season. So you reported that
the deal is expected to get done, that it will
be under the Houston Comets brand, and this would be
assuming there's no work stoppage, this would be for the
twenty seven season, which training camps open in April twenty seven,
which is like fifteen months away.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
So, Michael, I guess my question for you not to
put you on the spot, but how close do you
think we are to a formal announcement? Because if we're
talking fifteen months away, like that's not that long. It
can't be that long until we get some sort of
announcement that the Connecticut Sun are formally relocating to Houston
by selling to an ownership group led by Tilman.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Fritetah right right.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I would say the timing of the announcement is something
that I am actually trying to get but struggling a
little bit. There seems to be a lot of teas
to cross is dot p's and q's, et cetera. Here's
what I will say whenever this is finalized, which I
would assume, let's say first quarter of this year, that
feels right. The process of getting the Connecticut son to
(35:51):
become the Houston comments actually probably isn't as difficult necessarily
as some people might think. The arena is in place,
Toyota Center, the practice isity is in place, Rockets practice facility,
the branding, the team name. Obviously those things have to
be like recreated physically, but we know what the brand is, right,
we know it will be the Houston Comets. So I
think it will be a very big whirlwind twelve ish
(36:14):
months or so, let's say. For probably think Gressen Sheer
will spearhead a lot of that, whomever else Tillman and
the Rockets want to bring in to do that, whoever
is hired. But I think it will be a process
where it should move relatively smoothly because arena, practice facility,
we're set. As I said, as long as there's no
work stoppage, expect the Connecticut Sun to play their final
(36:35):
season in Connecticut in twenty six, then simply move to
twenty seven. How will all those franchise records be handled,
like Home the City Sonics Thunderstyle, I don't know. I'll
figure that out for y'all. But let's let's talk about
that in twenty twenty seven. That's like a minute detail.
But yeah, it's it's happening. It's happened. It's happening, y'all.
I was gonna say ninety nine percent, but it's happened.
We're gonna get the comments back, which is very fun
(36:56):
for the market. I'm sure people are very excited.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
As a Ron Paul meme, it's happening. Yes, it's crazy
news here.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
It's very cool. I mean, you know, the comments were
the first dynasty sort of speaking in the WNBA, and
certainly the most important franchise early on, and so it's
kind of cool to see it come back. I wish
this had happened to the Houston Oilers. You're being a
kid in that era, but you know that they get
to keep their name. But I'm excited for it, and
hopefully it'll be great.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
What I haven't decided, assuming there's no workstoppage and the
WNBA has a season this year, which might be a
big assumption, but let's be optimistic. Are we going to
cheer for the Connecticut Sun? Like, are we going to
have Connecticut Sun watch parties in Houston? Knowing that by
default they are actually the Houston Comets. I've decided how
I feel about that, but technically they are the Houston Comets,
right can.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
I Can I be a little roote and mean here?
I will? Actually I kind of think Houston hoops fans,
especially those who want to be invested in the Commets,
how do I put this? You might want to root
against the Sun next year? Oh? That waking purposes And
here's the big one and the drop. I'm not the
first to say this. Juju Watkins usc stars eligible for
twenty The Sun went eleven and thirty three last year.
(37:59):
They have the number thirteen pick, though in the WNBA
draft it's outside the top tanks they treated eight years ago.
The Sun should be a bottom five ish team again
in the W. I like the W I'm not a
huge expert, but I like it a fair amount. So
I would say, not to be mean spirited, but the
Juju walk into Houston push rooting. Watch that'll be something
(38:20):
to watch in the summer for sure, So not to
hate on. Conneticut's signed, something to consider it.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
And Dave, you're all about a good tank, right, Oh?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, absolutely, I'm here. I'm here to root for losses
for the benefit of long term, so I love. Yeah,
I think that works out great. It's not an expansion team,
so you're not going to get like some sort of
guaranteed pick.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
It's right. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
By the way, someone pointed out in the chat, the
WNBA with a new TV deal is profitable now, so
Tilman should be happy.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
Absolutely, everything you hear about the WNBA's finances is largely outdated,
the new TV deal that they just signed a year
or so ago. There's a reason why, not just Tilman,
but the three expansion franchises that were just awarded earlier
this year to non Houston locations all went for I
think two hundred and fifty million, and Michael, I think
you reported it'll be twitter and fifty million or even
(39:02):
a little bit above what the Furtitas are going to
pay for the Sun to relocate them. So the point
is when you have four plus groups willing to pay
that level of price for WNBA team, Yeah, the league
is profitable. Some of the stuff that you hear it's
you know, it's before the new TV deal and right
now it's it's a good business to be in, as
reflected by the Fertita's paying that.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, I would say right now the FURTIITA should expect
a nice, modestly profitable business in the short term. Hopefully
that expands long term. And yes on the number it
was I was told north of too much or fifty
million is what I was told.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Wow hashtag eat at Landry's as our friend David Queen
er Dog would say on Twitter.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Absolutely, guys, I appreciate it. Rockets get a huge win.
One twenty ninety six, we're here talking with Michael Shapiro.
You can go please go follow him on Twitter at
m chap two. You can see the Twitter handle down below.
Of course that's Beendubos as well. Like I said, big
Rockets win and appreciate talking with you, Michael about all
these great stories you're writing over in crime dot com
(40:00):
and yeah, anything you guys want to say before we
close up. I'm good, all right, guys.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
I can't appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
You bet, Michael, Thank you, and again, Happy New Year
to everybody and we will see you guys for the
next one.
Happy New Year, everybody, welcome into the show. Rockets get
a huge win tonight in Brooklyn one twenty to ninety
six over the Nets. Alpern Shangun returns plays really well,
an extremely balanced attack across the board. I'm here with
Ben Dubos, who you're used to seeing. Ben with us
as well, but as well cron dot com writer Michael
(00:23):
Shapiro's with us as well.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Michael.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's honestly an honor to have you with us. Excited
to hear your insight on what you see from the
Rockets as you know, as well as what you've kind
of discovered and seen. I know you talked to Tarry
Easton in the video where Tarry said that you know
he wants to start, and you were the one who
asked him that question. So I know you'll have some
great insight. But I'll start with you, Michael. What was
your thoughts, you know, watching this game tonight.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Yeah, a nice kind of win for the Rockets to
kick off the new year of one twenty ninety six.
I think the thing that we've seen that we've seen
time and again this year, this is such a talented
offensive group and offensive roster, especially when they are full.
Alperah and Shngun being the hub of that is obviously
a key piece. He was pretty dominant, I think from
the get go tonight who's really engaged in active. But
when you have albri and Kevin Reed Shepard, you know,
(01:11):
there's just so much offensive talent on this roster right now.
I think when they play middling two weeks god squads
like this, you know they're really going to kind of
smack them, I think more often than not the rest
of the season.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
Yeah, we didn't see that in December when they lost
to the Pelicans, the Kings, the Jazz, the MAVs, but
there were some extenuating circumstances on a lot of those
being night two of back to backs, and this is
their fourth straight win. They're now twenty one to ten,
and I feel good that Alpi gets to enjoy it
for a change because he missed the last two with
Cap Titaness. So he returns plays thirty four minutes is
(01:41):
plus thirty. That's obviously the leading storyline. We've talked in
recent games about the defensive improvement, and inevitably, when you
see the defensive growth in Shangun's not out there followed
by a month in which they were or preceded by
a month excuse me, in which they were underwhelming defensively
and Shingoon mostly was out there. Some of those old
question get brought up about Shinoon and his ceiling defensively,
(02:03):
so I thought it was really good for them to
have a nice defensive game tonight with Shingoon certainly pulling
his weight out there. And for me, Michael, you cover
all sports in Houston, so I think you'll appreciate this analogy.
I think what Shin Gooon does, especially against these lesser
teams like the Mets, like the Nets. Excuse me, h,
you got me with the baseball mode there. It reminds
(02:24):
me of a baseball pitcher that consistently throws two hundred innings.
I think a from Ravaldez for the Astros, and that
you really need that over the course of a long
regular season like the NBA, like Major League Baseball, and
you don't always appreciate it until the player is gone,
like we always talk about some of the ceiling guys
for the Rockets, and lately the way Houston's increased the
(02:46):
usage of guys like Kadie, certainly in the absence of
alp and we're always talking about a men in red
and what they can do on ball, But Shinoon, when
you have a low post threat that is as durable
as he typically is and can score the ball at
will inside and you're playing a lesser team with no
rim protection, you're almost guaranteed to win. Like, he gives
(03:09):
you such a high floor that if he's out there
and it's not night to a back to back, i e.
The defense isn't dreadful, you're almost certainly gonna win. And
you know, Shangoun had that strong first quarter and the
Rockets played from in front pretty much the whole way.
And so, Michael, do you sort of see that analogy
where I'm going with the Shangoon to from Brivaldez. Not
that Shangoon has ever crossed up a teammate, but I
think the floor with Shangoon is really really high, and
(03:33):
tonight was a good reminder of that. If he's out
there and you're playing a lesser team, like even if
you have a cold shooting night, which until the fourth
quarter it was for Kevin Durant, You're probably gonna withstand
it because Shangoon's just gonna be able to get the
easy points and the easy assist off of those.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
I mean Alburn has a lot of skills, but I
think a winter innings eater, so to speak, is one
of them. I kind of mentioned this today before we
hopped on the air here. I really like when the
Rockets make an active effort to have Alprin eat early.
I think when he it's a couple of quick buckets,
not only is that something for him personally, right, I
think it's just a defensive attention situation where teams and
defenses go, oh crap, Right, this is a night where
(04:09):
we're gonna have to send two three bodies at him.
And it's an Alburn's nature not to just keep scoring
in hook shot, hookshot, hooks shot. Right, He's gonna want
to find guys. He's gonna want to find a maund
cutting lobs. So having him be kind of the active
full crumb from the very first possessions tonight, it kind
of set the tone in this blout when I felt.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Like, right, yeah, he was plus thirty tonight, so you
know when he was out there, you know, they succeeded
for sure, and I thought it was interesting. I thought
early on they doubled KD. That was kind of what
the Brooklyn wanted to do. And KD had five assists,
like in the first five minutes. I think it was
he finished with eleven assists, did have six turnovers, but
they funneled so much tonight through I mean, Shangun was
(04:46):
fantastic as a secondary guy. I think he had six assists,
but KD was kind of almost like the engine and
he was finding Shangun on the roll, and Shangun did
a really good job of playing I thought Downhill a
lot of pressure when he rolled, and in contrast, I
know I mentioned this to Ben in real time. There
was one time when Jabbari played the exact same role
(05:07):
and he got it perfectly and he should have just
rolled with the basket immediately, but he kind of hesitated,
wasn't sure what to do. And I think that was
a you kind of saw what Shnghun's strength, you know,
how he plays well that pick and role in contrast
to some others, and I thought that was really important tonight.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
Kevin's sorry to interrupt here, but no, no, yeah, Kevin's
work as a facilitator I think, especially the past couple
weeks in Houston has been really impressive. He's found a
nice couple slip screens to Alpura and for dunks tonight.
He had eight assists on Christmas seven against Cleveland and
then eleven tonight. He was pretty happy. I felt like
on Christmas about the ball movement, how they were just
making the Lakers. Now it is the Lakers defense, which
(05:43):
is pretty disgraceful often, but the Lakers were on skates right,
And Kevin kind of mentioned that post game as he
was getting dressed at they were pinging it side to side,
And I guess maybe this is kind of a dumb
thing to say, or an obvious point. He's a pretty
elite passer, obviously, he's one of the greatest scorers ever.
He sees the four so well, and when he has
players like Alper and like men who can score on
multiple levels of the floor, you see that IQ open up.
(06:04):
And he saw it tonight, which was great.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Yeah, And I thought a men's postgame interview with Vanessa
Richards and the Walcot pointed to the same thing, the
ball movement, and a men tonight had twenty three points
on ten or twelve shooting, so he often was the
finisher rather than the initiator. Often taking advantage of the
gravity of KD and Alperin. But yeah, the board, yep,
the ball movement has been better. And yeah, the two threes.
(06:27):
He had a friendly rim that was one of the
friendliest rims I've ever seen, by the way.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
True, it really was. But I mean, I had to
look it up. He's only hit one. He's only had
one other game this year where he's had more than one,
made three.
Speaker 2 (06:38):
You know.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
And I mean to interrupt, but go ahead and finish
your thought.
Speaker 4 (06:41):
I was gonna say a full circle moment. So I
can remember eleven months ago one of the worst Rockets
losses of last season was in that same gym against
the Nets right before the trade deadline in early February.
It was the one where the Nets hit two threes
in the final fifteen seconds when they were down four. Dave,
I'm sure you remember this. The last was by Dangel Russell,
and I was in the building. I had made the
(07:03):
trip to New York. I was there as a fan.
But I can remember getting on the subway to go
back to the hotel after and I must have told
my wife like ten plus times and tweeted one hundred times.
Kevin Durant is begging to be on the Rockets, and
yet Houston doesn't have the sense of urgency. Now, I
think Rafelstone got the last laugh because pretty clearly Houston
was interested in Kevin Durant. It just took waiting until
(07:25):
the price came down, which meant waiting until June, rather
than doing a deal at the trade deadline. I was
so frustrated at the time, because you know, the Rockets
clearly needed a closer. That was the quintessential game against
a lesser team when they led most of the way,
couldn't close it, and Kevin Durant clearly the situation in
Phoenix wasn't working. There were trade rumors at the time,
and it was pretty clear that Houston was on his list.
(07:48):
Just at the time, it didn't make sense for the
Rockets to do the deal and they didn't. Well, almost
a year later now Kevin Durant is a Houston Rocket
and they finished the game in Brooklyn. Well, I guess
they didn't need to finish it because they were up
by so watched thanks to Katie and Alfred that it
wasn't even close down the stretch of the fourth quarter.
I just thought it was a full circle moment. You know,
right for the trade deadline, the Rockets didn't have KD
and blew the game. Tonight, they have KD and they
(08:10):
would going away. I know it's not the same Nets team,
but it's it's a pretty good win. It speaks to,
you know, the value of Kevin Durant, and I just
think he set such a good tone across the board.
Like people throughout this winning streak have talked about his defense, Michael,
you talked about his assist I think Kd's defense has
been so much better this year. There have been a
couple of stats I've seen about how he's one of
(08:30):
the top guys in terms of field goal percentage against
when he's the primary defender in the entire league. I
did not realize that a thirty seven year old KD
would have this much in the tank defensively. And I
see a couple of comments in the chat about Alphren's
defense maybe not being as as good as the plus
minds would indicate. I mean, that's fair that what I
said earlier was referring to the final score one twenty
(08:53):
ninety six. You hold any NBA team below one hundred points,
you did something right defensively, and Shangun was a part
of that. Now, in terms of his matchups coming off
the capstrain, yeah, there's going to be some times that
he gets blown by. I just meant, you know, the
uptick across the board in defense. I don't think that's
simply because Shin Gooon was out, because they performed collectively
better tonight, even with Shin Gooon out there for two
(09:14):
thirds of the game. But Kadi, I mean, I just
did not realize going into this year, and I'm curious
if you two, you know, had similar expectations. I just
did not think at thirty seven years old that he
would have the Jews defensively that he still does. Maybe
it's the competitive environment, maybe it's you know, the head
coach and Imi Udoka.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
I don't know. But he's just been a much better
defensive player than I anticipated.
Speaker 3 (09:31):
I think the environment's a big part of it. And
I gotta say, Ben, that sounds like a story idea
for me to pursue dot com in next coming weeks.
I think Kevin's defense has been impressive and surprising. That's
a good note for sure.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah, and I don't know what I expected. I thought
he would fit just because he did it with Golden State.
They were part of a great defensive unit when he
did it there. But obviously, being thirty seven, there's that question.
But yeah, I thought he did a good job. So
I want to We're definitely going to talk a little
bit about, you know, one Thetari story you had, as
well as the story about the Furtida, which was fascinating.
We're to talk about both of those, but I want
to talk about a men real quick before we move
(10:04):
on from that. Ben kind of covered it, but you know,
excuse me. A men was shooting I think true shooting
percentage fifty three point two percent heading into December this
this past you know, December, and was looking I thought
pretty weak. We were wondering what was going on with
the men. He just posted sixty two plus percent true
shooting in the month of December, and then tonight ten
(10:25):
of twelve from the field, twenty three points hit a
couple of threes, which is only going to jack up
that true shooting percentage. He seems to be going back
to that sixty plus percent we saw last year. That's
a great sign to me because I was a little
bit worried, to be honest about what's going on with
a men early on? What have you guys seen. I
know they talked in the post game about him working
extra time with Ben Sullivan, but I don't know what
(10:45):
you guys have seen from a men lately.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Michael, you can take it first.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, sure, you know. With the Ben Sullivan point, we
see him every single game, every practice, post practice. That's
Ben Sullivan work. I mean they are kind of tied
at the hip. When I was kind of when a
men was first coming through on this staff, I would
talk to Ben Sullivan every now and then about a
man as a three point shooter, and he kind of
steered me into a point that it's not about the threes, buddy, Right,
it's about that mid range game, that foul and that
(11:12):
kind of extended area. You're seeing a men more comfortable there.
And I think just the most important point, right is
that he's willing and actively working on it.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Right.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
He is not a perfect shooter. The form is still
a little shaky on the three pointer, but he's not
afraid of any shot. And I do think that midrange
Jay it is pretty soft, especially when it's the foul
line in a little bit that's not even totally the
restricted area. He's getting pretty money in that area. And
obviously I think that true shooting percentage is going to
keep shooting up, especially with him in the dunker spot
(11:40):
so often. Right, Like I've never seen a guard. I
guess we call him a guard, kind of a guard, right,
get so many free locks, it's really unbelievable on this team, right, So,
I think his numbers, his shooting percentage will continue to increase.
In terms of how that's going to look in the playoffs,
He's going to be tested, right, I mean, I think
the biggest thing with the men is the turnovers and
the ball handling. The handle is not totally perfectly there
(12:01):
yet it still gets a little kind of slapped around,
poked away in traffic. So I think he's going to
be a real X factor in the playoffs. I mean,
I think he's obviously a fantastic, fantastic player. How much
of a ball handling load will he have? How much
of that can be shorter? That's kind of like a
big thing I think to watch in the next coming months.
Like the Rockets are going to be a playoff team,
They're a very good team. How much is the uncomfortable
(12:22):
leading the offense, driving the charge and how much does
he actually have to do that for Houston. Those are
kind of things I'm going to be watching a lot
the next couple months.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
And apologies for the pause.
Speaker 4 (12:31):
I was looking for a social media post before I commented,
and now I've got it in front of me. On
Christmas Day, Brian Windhorst dropped a very interesting nugget over
on Threads and the Q and A. I noticed it
just today because again he dropped this during the day
on Christmas and I didn't see it at the time,
but someone asked him which Rockets player would cost more
in the trade market, A Men or Shingoon and Wendy's response,
(12:55):
And by the way, I respect Wendy as much as
anybody in the business.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
He's as good as it gets.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Response A Men, but it's irrelevant because he's basically untouchable.
Shingoon probably is too, but the list of who the
Rockets would entertain a deal discussion with him is maybe
a few names longer. Now before anyone leaps to any conclusions,
that's not a shot at Alfred and Shogoon at all.
Wendy is literally saying he's probably untouchable. It's more a
(13:20):
compliment to a Men that even if a guy like Yannis,
a multi time MVP, hits the market, and even if
the Rockets aren't playing that well, there's still no way
the Rockets would consider it. And I guess my question
for the two of you, does that surprise you in
any way?
Speaker 2 (13:37):
For me personally, it does not. However, however high you are.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
When I say you, I mean the listener on a
men Thompson, I suspect the Rockets are even higher. You
cannot possibly express how high they are on a men.
Inside that building, they love the guy. And it's important
to stress this is just year three, the first half
of your three, so yes, there's some clear weaknesses, but
when you look at the totality of the play on
(14:01):
both offense and defense and the areas, he can still
get better over the next couple of years to the
point where he's in year five like Alprin is right now.
It's not a given that a Men's gonna get there,
and it's certainly not saying that a Men is a
better player than al Prin right now. But I think
in terms of projecting the future, there's not many players,
(14:21):
if anyone, in the NBA that the Rockets would trade
him and Thompson for And that's not a shot at all, Perinchhanoon.
It's more just how highly the Rockets view on men
Thompson as a player period. So I just thought it
was fascinating for Wendy to lay it out there that
specifically any surprise from the two of you that that's
apparently how the Rockets feel.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Go ahead, Michael, I definitely have thoughts on this.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Sure, I'll go first and then lead it for you, Dave.
That doesn't necessarily surprise me per se. I mean, I
think we can go all the way back to the lottery,
all the way back in twenty twenty three, right where
the Rockets they were bummed to not get Victor Wembiniama obviously,
but I think from rafel Stone in the front office,
it was like pick two versus pick four. We don't
care like it was a men at that number two
(15:03):
prospect spot. I feel pretty confident saying that reporting that
however you want to put that, and so they are
incredibly high on him. He has yet to hit his
rookie max extension. I don't think obviously that the Rockets
will trade Alpern Shanghun or will trade him and Thompson.
But the fact that they are considered it very Yeah,
that should be said, right, that needs to be said.
But the fact that they're considered very comparable or a
(15:24):
man even a touch ahead makes sense to me also
because a man is just such a malleable piece. He's
in his third year, early in his third year. Again,
I think Alburn is a fantastic player. You can win
a championship with the alper and probably is like your
second best player. I do believe that. But the fact
that he is not as untradable as a men quote unquote,
it's interesting to not surprising. That's what I call it.
Speaker 1 (15:46):
Yeah, and I know the question was framed as shanguon
or a men, but it really doesn't have anything to
do with Shangoon. It's just as Ben, in my personal opinion,
how he described it as accurate, as in, they view
a man as truly something special like they I know
for a fact, somebody, you know, high up in the
Rocket's office told me, Yeah, if we got the number
(16:08):
one pick, we would have taken Wemby, but we would
have hated not getting Amen Thompson.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
And that's it.
Speaker 1 (16:13):
They got Wemby who's like, you know, the alien, and
so that's how high they were on him. And I
stress that at that time, we were doing live streams
and all that, and you know, I was thinking Scoot Henderson,
and I know all the fans won in Scoot Henderson
and all that. I give the Rockets an enormous amount
of credit. I gained a ton of amount of respect
for the front office because they they were absolutely a
men Thompson over Scoot Henderson. I don't think the mainstream,
(16:35):
you know, just fans, I should say, we're there, including myself.
Speaker 4 (16:40):
I want to transition our discussion to the other half
of the Terror Twins debuts to this earlier. But Michael,
you were on the scene in LA when Tari gave
that interview last week saying I want to start, and
ever since he was that forward, there's been a little
bit of fear from the fan base. And yet when
you look at the numbers now, first off, the Rockets
(17:01):
are four to oh, so you can't complain when the
team's winning. But beyond that, Tari Easton stats individually twelve
and a half points, six and a half rebounds per game,
better than fifty seven percent overall shooting forty six percent
from three sixty five percent true shooting in these four games.
And the reason I'm emphasizing these four games is this
(17:21):
is when his role is flipped. So he's getting what
he asks for, which is the spot in the starting lineup.
He's playing alongside the other high usage guys like Katie,
like Shingoon, Tonight, like a man, and yet it seems
he's perfectly comfortable taking a secondary role. And that speaks
to the shot attempts. He's averaging less than nine field
(17:42):
goal attempts per game. So when you hear that interview,
and we also know it's a contract year for Tari,
He's going to be a restricted free agent this summer.
There's no ifs, hands or bots about it. That's just
the way it works if you don't extend your rookie
scale guy by the start of their fourth season. So
it's a contract year. He's finally getting the chance to start.
I think that was his work, Michael, finally. And so
the fear whenever you see an interview like that is
(18:04):
this guy's going to be all about the counting stats
and he's going to go chuck and he's going to
put up numbers. But it's going to be to the
detriment of the team. And yet it's almost the complete
opposite of that, Like he's working completely within the team construct,
as evidence by the extremely efficient numbers. If anything, you
could argue that maybe he should be more aggressive and
(18:24):
shooting it more so, I guess, Michael, I'm curious your
thoughts since you were asking him some of the questions
you were there. It's just such a fascinating juxtaposition to
be that he wants to start. He clearly has, you know,
big plans for himself. He said at media day. I
can recall him saying he wants more plays run for
him and there were a few raised eyebrows about that.
And yet he gets this opportunity and there's really no
(18:46):
change at all to his style of play. He's more
than happy to play exactly how Imo Ujoka and the
staff want to use him and sort of be the
glue guy instead of making it about him. What do
you make as far as the juxtaposition of his statements
but also his.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Style of play.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
Yeah, I mean, tari knowing him for a couple of
years now, he's a very eager individual. But I also
want to say he's a very earnest individual.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Right.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
I think when he says yes, yes, I want to start,
part of that's for him, But part of it, I
think is also that he thinks it's for the betterment
of the unit. Right. I think a lot of that
is that last point that you touched on that email,
and the staff have gotten that collective constant buy in
right where we will put you in a role to succeed,
and that means both for the team but also for
you as a human and individual, a contract, whatever that
(19:29):
may be. Right. I think Also the third kind of
thing to think about is he doesn't need to force
it because he's kind of living in basketball offensive heaven
for his role, right. I mean, so many guys are
converging onto Albrin to Kevin, there's people on AMN. He
doesn't need to force things to really get his numbers right,
to score twelve fifteen points a game, ten points a game,
(19:50):
he just needs to kind of hang in the corner,
be a slasher, make a few plays here or there.
And it was something I think it was on social
media this year where he kind of gotten kind of
a Twitter not a spat, but a conversation with someone
He's going you know if I have played instead of
eighteen minutes a night, thirty four minutes the night, here's
what my numbers are. Right. And on one hand, you
can think, well, that's a pretty simple extrapolation. I don't
agree with that, but it speaks to his mindset right
(20:13):
where he's saying, if I have my minutes, I don't
need to do anything different. I just physically need the
minutes to get the numbers that I see fit or
to be the kind of player I see fit. So
it was a pretty funny and interesting comment that he
made in the Lakers locker room at Staple Center. Sorry
Crypto dot com, Marina. Right, it started even funnier. He
goes he steps up to us and Tracy Rockett's pr
(20:33):
says we have to be quick because he has to
go see his family or whatever. Great, that's fine, And
the first thing he says he goes, man, he may
finally trusted me tonight with the start and goes this
little monologue. I'm thinking, well, it seems like he wants
to start, right. So I just asked him and he
gave a point blank yes, yes I do. But I
really didn't interpret that as a me guy kind of thing.
I really interpreted as a I just think it's best
for everyone, for me, for us, and it just really
(20:56):
speaks to both him as a person and the culture
that he may has instilled. They're like this, I think,
by the way, there's sometimes friction with the two of them,
but they're very similar personalities in a lot of ways.
They're very similar competitors. So and he may set it himself.
Sorry to go on like this, but hey, I don't
mind guys saying they want to start. I don't mind
guys kind of voicing what they want, right, And he
(21:16):
may took it into account. He started the past few
games and it's working. If it doesn't work, we'll go
away from it. It's that no egos kind of thing
with the rockets, right. So I just think it's such
a nice ecosystem and part is along and short of it.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
And Dave, I'm curious your thoughts about the long term
implications of this, because if this continues, and the caveat
that we have to keep restating it's a small sample
four games. This is nothing conclusive just yet. But if
he sticks in the starting lineup, I can't help but
think that that it increases his value quite a bit
long term because to this point, you know, you can
(21:50):
look at all the per thirty six stats you want,
but he's been used in a very specific way in
which he comes in as the six man, largely against backups,
and the question is, how is it gonna extrapolate to
a starting role if you ask him to do more
against the best of the best, against starters, if he's
asked to function more in a half court setting alongside
(22:12):
guys like Kevin Durant and alpahin Shangoon. There have been
all these questions if this continues, if he takes this
vacant starting lineup spot and makes it his, Because even
if Fred Binvliet somehow comes back, I don't think he's
going to be anywhere near a point where you could
ask him to play thirty plus minutes. If Tari is
able to function in this role as opposed to the
six man role that he's largely occupied the first three
(22:34):
years to his NBA career, I mean this makes him
all the more important long term, right, the fact that
he's not just a one trick pony, that his production
can scale up and it can hold when used in
different areas, including the most important areas.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
I totally think so, and they've had tremendous success when
he starts. I mean, what's the record going back to
last year. I think it's like fifteen or sixteen and
one or something like that. And you know, yeah, he's
been amazing. I'm amazed by the jump in three point
sh tonight. He was two for two, hit six of
seven from the field. He had a pull up like
from eighteen feet tonight. I was like, you know, just
a little stop on a dribble, step back and nailed it.
(23:08):
I was like, what is going on with tar? I mean,
I'm amazed how well he's playing. I'm not shocked because
he is an impact player. He's got these oven mits
for hands. He can get out there and just you know,
cause Havoc certainly, I just wonder, and I think you're right,
doesn't matter this year because I think Fred comes back.
It's not going to be like plug and play start
and I don't think Reid has to start this year,
(23:29):
but just long term because we are looking at a contract.
There obviously was some sort of disagreement on the contract.
We don't know those details, but you know, and then
you balance that with the injury that he kind of
you know, had this year, which I think is probably
a sticking point just given that his reliability hasn't been
there from the injury standpoint. That's the only question I have.
But I think for this year this is like, this
is an embarrassment of riches. I mean, where they're doubling
(23:51):
those guys, you could throw it to read. You can't
even leave Reid open for a second. We saw that tonight.
Tari Jabari, Amen, Shanngoon, all of these guys when they
had those five on fours, they do they do. They're
very effective. So Tari's been excellent. I think he is.
He has played his way this year into basically bet
on himself, and he's going.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
To pay off. I think.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
All right, before we wrap up, Michael, I want to
tee you up to talk about a couple of your
recent stories at crin dot com, because I think there's
some fascinating longer term implications for this franchise. And I
mentioned earlier the return of Katie to Brooklyn and also
the return of the Rockets to Brooklyn for the first
time since that debacle last February, and having KD the
(24:34):
way they didn't last year. Of all people. It was
Jalen Green who missed the potential winner at the buzzer
in that game after the D'Angelo Russell three basically stole
that game from the Rockets. And now you have Katie.
You win with these Katie going up against his old team.
And I think it's so fascinating that the Rockets were
willing to wait until the offseason, because if you're reading
(24:55):
the tea leaves, if you're reading the reports that were
out there, the Rockets were the second or third seed
in the West at the time, and Kevin Durant is
Kevin Durant, and he had made it clear that he
was open to coming to Houston. And yet the Rockets
didn't do the deal at that time. They waited until
the price came down to something that made more sense
for them given his age and what they would have
(25:15):
to give up in terms of their existing young core.
And to me that that signals the role of Patrick Furtida.
If it was just Tilman, I think back to, you know,
the Russell Westbrook trade, Dave. I'm sure you remember the
you know, my front office got a little weak in
the knees at the end, remember that claiming, you know,
the final five yards of the CP Russ trade, and
(25:36):
I think for Tilman, a relatively new owner at the time,
you know, Russ was definitely the splashyar guy relative to
Chris Paul at the time, just like Kevin Durant a
year ago would have been the splash guy. And I'm
certainly not comparing Katie to Russ as a player, just
looking at it from the standpoint of an owner that says, hey,
I can bring in a former MVP. This is gonna
you know, move merchandise, sell more tickets. The Rockets had
(25:57):
that opportunity, they could have added Kevin Durant to a
two seed, and yet they said, hey, it's not worth
it because to do it at this price point would
take away from our longer term formula. So they waited
a few months, they did it in the off season,
and here here we are. It feels like you've basically
swapped out Jalen Green for Kevin Durant. But by and large,
especially with Dory and Phinny Smith now sort of backfilling
(26:17):
Dylan Brooks role, you sort of have the framework of
last year's team, but with KD instead of Jalen Green
as the tip of the spear scorer, and I think
that was always the vision.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
So, Michael, you.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Wrote about the relationship between Tilman and Patrick, and Patrick's
you know, increasing role the last few years of the Rockets.
Technically he's alternate governor and really that makes him governor
most of the time since Stillman's ambassador to Italy right
now and not even in Houston majority of the time.
What have you seen from from Patrick Parcida as you've
gotten to know him as you wrote this story, getting
to sort of witness his interactions around the organization. Is
(26:50):
that a good illustration of sort of I guess his
style and his focus and what he tries to you know,
the leadership he tries to exert, and the areas that
he tries to steer this organization in.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
Yeah, I think with Patrick it's a lot of selective aggression,
is the best way I would put it. And I
think that's just very much in step with rafel Stone, right.
There's not a recklessness to the way the Rockets do things.
They have a lot of process. So I spoke to
Tillman and Patrick in the tunnel at Toyota Center on
Saturday night, I want to say, right last weekend, and
(27:25):
Tilman was in town for a few days. He's flying
back to Italy. I don't know if he's army back
there yet. Safe flight, Tilman, if you haven't fallen back yet.
But I kind of chatted with them about Patrick's increased
role in recent years. What does Tilman think of the
way the organization is trending, And it seems like basically
Patrick's point to me was, this is far from my
first rodeo, right. I am in a new role so
(27:45):
to speak, with Tilman gone, but he's been learning from
the feet of I would say, the front office at
large for the past what five six seven years? It's
been a while, and so he is in a position
now where he very much defers to Rafel, very much
deffer to the front office. But he is an active
voice in the whole process, and I would say he's
a voice that is a calming one. He is definitely
(28:06):
not the same kind of personality as his dad, totally.
I kind of tried to pull them both for an interview.
Patrick said, you know, Tillman, you're you know, you're in town.
Why don't you just take this? And Tilman kind of goes, Patrick,
get on in here too, and you know, he's a
very kind of thoughtful speaker. I would say, right, he's
talking about you know, we don't really care so much
about December. We're thinking about April, We're thinking about twenty
(28:28):
six and twenty seven. So I think Rockets fans should
just feel really good that the guy in charge right now,
with Tilman gone, the facto in charge. You know, he
might be thirty one, but he's I don't want to
say wise beyond his years, but he's just a very
thoughtful and process oriented individual, which kind of fits this
Rockets front office as a whole. Tillman goes, it's obviously
we can beat all good teams. I think we can
(28:48):
be anyone in the league. And Patrick kind of goes,
let's see how we look in May, right, Yeah, between
the fellas, right, and so it wasn't you know, I
would say too opening of an interview or anything, but
I think it further solidified the Rockets leadership structure right now,
even with Tilman gone and Patrick fair it's very solid.
It's very strong.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
And can you speak a little bit about like how
they hired Emautok or really they jumped on the guy
that they they knew was WHI yeah, well and extended
him of course is well, but like they they had
line I believe interviews lined up with others and they
just they may interview an Emay and they were like,
that's the guy.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Is that right?
Speaker 1 (29:27):
I don't want to speak for you, but you can
tell us what they kind of told you about that.
Speaker 3 (29:30):
Yeah, for sure. I mean I don't know if I
can speak to you if they actively canceled or didn't
schedule those interviews back in the day, but I do
know and I can speak to that they had targeted
e May and after you know, some lengthy conversations, they
were pretty stuck on him. E May kind of let
it slip at media Day this year that he had
signed a contract extension with Houston, right, and we had
kind of done some digging found out it's about a
(29:51):
six year commitment about eleven million dollars per year, which
is pretty big commitment to a head coach. You don't
see that too often in the NBA. So I asked
Patrick about that, right, why is Emay the guy you
want to stick with through the decade? And it was
pretty simple. He said, you know, why mess with something
that's good when you know you have your guy, why
play games? Don't complicate it? Right? And so I think
it's a situation where as I said, both with Kevin
(30:13):
Durant and with emy Udoka, when they have their target,
they're going to go after it. Now, I don't think
the Rockets, this is kind of a different conversation maybe
for a different stream. I don't think the Rockets are
going to be massive shark hunters at the trade deadline
over the course of this era of the team. Let's say,
don't assume that Kevin is the only major piece slash
(30:34):
major trade that will be made over the next era. Right,
So that is part of Patrick's m O. They will
not do it recklessly, but they will not close their
eyes and just hope this is it so to speak.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
All right, Well, go ahead, man. And you mentioned Patrick's age.
I actually think he's young.
Speaker 4 (30:47):
Age might actually be an attribute in this context because
rafel Stone is the GM. He has the final word
when it comes to basketball operation. So when we talk
about the role of the governor or the ultimate governor,
they're the liaison like they're the bridge between ownership and
signing off on the decisions that were fell makes so
(31:08):
you're not so much asking the person in that seat
to make the decision. What you want is for them
to have some level of knowledge and to not meddle unnecessarily.
And I think with Patrick, he basically started his professional
life when the Fertitas bought the Rockets in twenty seventeen.
I think that was shortly after he had graduated from USC,
So basically all of his formative years he's been learning
(31:31):
on the fly. But as a professional he has been
fully immersed in the NBA for a long time. And
I think where that's different than Tillman. Tilman can certainly
learn about the league, and I think he has over
the nearly nine years that he's owned the team, but
he had a lot of his professional life owning other businesses.
And I think running an NBA team, because of the
sophistication of the audience, because of how high IQ fans are,
(31:54):
because of how much they care about these teams, you
can't pull the wool over eyes of your clients in
the NBA the way you can in a lot of
other businesses. And I go back to the CP Russell
Westbrook trade. Just because it's the splash addition, it's going
to cost you in time if it doesn't lead to
the results that you want on the floor, and so
I think you sort of learned the hard way and
(32:16):
it makes you you know, I think Tilman learned from
that experience. But at the time, he was just in
his third year, second year or whatever it was owning
the team. He hadn't been through that before. And it's
easy to think, Hey, like Russell is a far better
athlete than Chris pall Is. It looked like Chris Fall
that second year in Houston was almost washed.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Let's just go with.
Speaker 4 (32:33):
The splash move and sell more tickets, move more merchandise.
There's a buzz factor two former MVPs, and let's see
where it takes us. And even if it doesn't lead
to a title whatever, it's gonna be good for the
bottom line well in the long run. Like in this industry,
fans care so much. It doesn't matter what the initial
press conference reactions are. If you're not winning games and
you're in a bad spot the way the Rockets were
(32:54):
a year later, coming out of the bubble, you're going
to be in trouble. And so I think because of
that experience, but also, you know, Patrick's sort of watching
all these other teams around the NBA. He takes much
more of a long view, right. That's been my impression
is that you know he's not going to make a move,
you know, not doing the KD trade this time a
year ago is a purpose example, just to make a
splash acquisition. It's got to make sense. It's got to
be on their terms. I think Tilman is there now
(33:16):
as well, in large part due to Patrick's influence and
Patrick sort of guiding him. And in that sense, I
think having a younger guy who's gotten fully immersed in
the NBA, I mean it's a it's a benefit, right,
Like he knows the NBA inside out in a way
that you know, Tilman, with all his other interests at
the time, at least in the late twenty tens, it
just wasn't reasonable to expect him to have that level
of knowledge.
Speaker 3 (33:35):
Yeah, I mean that basketball is Patrick's mein slash ONNY business.
I think that's the best, the best way to put it.
That was his finishing school, I would say, so to speak.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Yep, Yeah, I just say just from my own standpoint
going through that whole thing, I was a big Daryl
Morey guy. And when he was out and then there
was talk of you know, the the owner's son is
going to take over some of the basketball side of it.
I was pretty nervous about it, you know, and very
you know, a suspicious I guess, and just how well
they were doing. And I think that we're very fortunate now,
is how I would say. I feel very good about
(34:04):
their decision making and how they've assessed talent. I mean,
look at even what they said about Reid. I know
Stephan Castle has been great, but they were super high
on Reid and at least as far as the top
two guys. You know, Reid does look like he's got
the potential to be what they've talked about, and certainly
in a man over Scoot and a lot of other
decisions they've made. So yeah, I'm very happy with with
(34:24):
the Fertitas and how they've built the rockets up to
this point. Ben Michael, anything you guys want to say
before close up?
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Go ahead.
Speaker 4 (34:32):
One last topic for Michael, and it's related to the Fertitas. So,
the Tilban and Patrick story was one of your good
reads at Crown dot Com in late December. Your other,
which I think generated even more waves, was your confirmation
that the WNBA to Houston with obviously Tilman being the
primary financial backer, there is close to done and we're
(34:52):
talking about the twenty seven season. So you reported that
the deal is expected to get done, that it will
be under the Houston Comets brand, and this would be
assuming there's no work stoppage, this would be for the
twenty seven season, which training camps open in April twenty seven,
which is like fifteen months away.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
So, Michael, I guess my question for you not to
put you on the spot, but how close do you
think we are to a formal announcement? Because if we're
talking fifteen months away, like that's not that long. It
can't be that long until we get some sort of
announcement that the Connecticut Sun are formally relocating to Houston
by selling to an ownership group led by Tilman.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
Fritetah right right.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I would say the timing of the announcement is something
that I am actually trying to get but struggling a
little bit. There seems to be a lot of teas
to cross is dot p's and q's, et cetera. Here's
what I will say whenever this is finalized, which I
would assume, let's say first quarter of this year, that
feels right. The process of getting the Connecticut son to
(35:51):
become the Houston comments actually probably isn't as difficult necessarily
as some people might think. The arena is in place,
Toyota Center, the practice isity is in place, Rockets practice facility,
the branding, the team name. Obviously those things have to
be like recreated physically, but we know what the brand is, right,
we know it will be the Houston Comets. So I
think it will be a very big whirlwind twelve ish
(36:14):
months or so, let's say. For probably think Gressen Sheer
will spearhead a lot of that, whomever else Tillman and
the Rockets want to bring in to do that, whoever
is hired. But I think it will be a process
where it should move relatively smoothly because arena, practice facility,
we're set. As I said, as long as there's no
work stoppage, expect the Connecticut Sun to play their final
(36:35):
season in Connecticut in twenty six, then simply move to
twenty seven. How will all those franchise records be handled,
like Home the City Sonics Thunderstyle, I don't know. I'll
figure that out for y'all. But let's let's talk about
that in twenty twenty seven. That's like a minute detail.
But yeah, it's it's happening. It's happened. It's happening, y'all.
I was gonna say ninety nine percent, but it's happened.
We're gonna get the comments back, which is very fun
(36:56):
for the market. I'm sure people are very excited.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
As a Ron Paul meme, it's happening. Yes, it's crazy
news here.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
It's very cool. I mean, you know, the comments were
the first dynasty sort of speaking in the WNBA, and
certainly the most important franchise early on, and so it's
kind of cool to see it come back. I wish
this had happened to the Houston Oilers. You're being a
kid in that era, but you know that they get
to keep their name. But I'm excited for it, and
hopefully it'll be great.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
What I haven't decided, assuming there's no workstoppage and the
WNBA has a season this year, which might be a
big assumption, but let's be optimistic. Are we going to
cheer for the Connecticut Sun? Like, are we going to
have Connecticut Sun watch parties in Houston? Knowing that by
default they are actually the Houston Comets. I've decided how
I feel about that, but technically they are the Houston Comets,
right can.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
I Can I be a little roote and mean here?
I will? Actually I kind of think Houston hoops fans,
especially those who want to be invested in the Commets,
how do I put this? You might want to root
against the Sun next year? Oh? That waking purposes And
here's the big one and the drop. I'm not the
first to say this. Juju Watkins usc stars eligible for
twenty The Sun went eleven and thirty three last year.
(37:59):
They have the number thirteen pick, though in the WNBA
draft it's outside the top tanks they treated eight years ago.
The Sun should be a bottom five ish team again
in the W. I like the W I'm not a
huge expert, but I like it a fair amount. So
I would say, not to be mean spirited, but the
Juju walk into Houston push rooting. Watch that'll be something
(38:20):
to watch in the summer for sure, So not to
hate on. Conneticut's signed, something to consider it.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
And Dave, you're all about a good tank, right, Oh?
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, absolutely, I'm here. I'm here to root for losses
for the benefit of long term, so I love. Yeah,
I think that works out great. It's not an expansion team,
so you're not going to get like some sort of
guaranteed pick.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
It's right. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:36):
By the way, someone pointed out in the chat, the
WNBA with a new TV deal is profitable now, so
Tilman should be happy.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (38:42):
Absolutely, everything you hear about the WNBA's finances is largely outdated,
the new TV deal that they just signed a year
or so ago. There's a reason why, not just Tilman,
but the three expansion franchises that were just awarded earlier
this year to non Houston locations all went for I
think two hundred and fifty million, and Michael, I think
you reported it'll be twitter and fifty million or even
(39:02):
a little bit above what the Furtitas are going to
pay for the Sun to relocate them. So the point
is when you have four plus groups willing to pay
that level of price for WNBA team, Yeah, the league
is profitable. Some of the stuff that you hear it's
you know, it's before the new TV deal and right
now it's it's a good business to be in, as
reflected by the Fertita's paying that.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
Yeah, I would say right now the FURTIITA should expect
a nice, modestly profitable business in the short term. Hopefully
that expands long term. And yes on the number it
was I was told north of too much or fifty
million is what I was told.
Speaker 4 (39:34):
Wow hashtag eat at Landry's as our friend David Queen
er Dog would say on Twitter.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Absolutely, guys, I appreciate it. Rockets get a huge win.
One twenty ninety six, we're here talking with Michael Shapiro.
You can go please go follow him on Twitter at
m chap two. You can see the Twitter handle down below.
Of course that's Beendubos as well. Like I said, big
Rockets win and appreciate talking with you, Michael about all
these great stories you're writing over in crime dot com
(40:00):
and yeah, anything you guys want to say before we
close up. I'm good, all right, guys.
Speaker 3 (40:05):
I can't appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (40:06):
You bet, Michael, Thank you, and again, Happy New Year
to everybody and we will see you guys for the
next one.
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