November 19, 2025 • 32 mins
Featuring Ben DuBose and Dave Hardisty, Wednesday’s “ClutchFans Live” postgame show breaks down Houston’s impressive 114-104 victory at Cleveland. The Rockets (10-3) have won five straight games and 10 of their last 11, overall, and the big story in this one was 26 combined fourth-quarter points from Aaron Holiday (!!!) and Alperen Sengun.
Led by an All-Star duo in Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley, the Cavaliers (10-6) continue to rank third in the Eastern Conference and had the NBA’s second-best record (64-18) last season.
This episode can be viewed in video form here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23QO3Nn6djE
Led by an All-Star duo in Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley, the Cavaliers (10-6) continue to rank third in the Eastern Conference and had the NBA’s second-best record (64-18) last season.
This episode can be viewed in video form here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23QO3Nn6djE
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome into the post game. The Rockets get a huge
one fourteen to one oh four win in Cleveland, a
game that felt a bit like a roller coaster ride
without much thrilling, you know rides as far as our
emotional dips. In the first half, Rockets pretty much dominated
that game and you felt like they were up by
thirty plus. Then the drama unfolded in the third and
(00:23):
early fourth, and the Rockets sort of held on for
dear life. But Ben Aaron Holliday comes up really big
in the fourth quarter and then Shangoon closes him out
on a night when Kevin Durant really didn't have it going.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, and it was a weird game from the start,
as you mentioned, But I think big picture, Dave. You've
got a spreadsheet in which you keep track of expected
wins and losses. Yeah, for me, this is a really
good win. It doesn't matter how you got it. This
was a sixty four win team from a year ago,
you were on the road. On paper, this is one
of your most difficult games all year. I know they
(00:57):
didn't have Jerius Garland and a couple other guys were
out as well.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
The Rockets don't have Tarry Easton or Anthony Smith Frendin Fleet.
So I don't think the Rockets ride an injury advantaged
by any means. So to get this win on the
road against a Cleveland team with Donovan Mitchell and he
struggled in the first three quarters, was great in the fourth.
Had Evan Mobley had shared Allen before we get to
the individual story lines like this has to be one
of the best wins that you can have all your
(01:21):
longs strictly from a probability perspective, right.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean it's funny you say
that because I actually just updated the spreadsheet, hadn't done
it in a couple of games. This puts them right
back on track now. Detroit game put them a game behind.
This was a game I projected the Rockets to lose
and they pull it out. But yeah, I mean, Rockets
ten and three. Their net rating is up there with
the elite teams. You got to be excited about where
(01:47):
they are now. I will say there's a lot to
pick apart in this game, and a lot of good
things as well. But on a night when Katie I
believe he finished six of eighteen, I have to double
check the box. You know, the guy who is your clothes. Really,
it was so nice to see Holiday make hit big
shots in the fourth quarter and then Shangoon sort of
play the role of closer and close them out. That
(02:11):
just shows you that there's a lot of versatility with
the team and they can beat you in a variety
of ways.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, and I think it speaks to just how aware
Kevin Durant is of Alperin Changoon, Like there's a clear
respect there, because this is not the first time we
talked about it. Late in the Orlando game the Milwaukee game, Kad,
for all of his accomplishments, is willing to take a
back seat, especially if Alperin Shangoon has it going on,
which he did tonight, and Kad, for his part, was struggling.
(02:37):
So I think that's good awareness by Kevin. It would
be easy for someone that's as accomplished as he is,
a multi time champion, former MVP Perennial all start to say, hey, this.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Is my time.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
No, he's increasingly shown a willingness to defer if it's
in the best entriest of the team, So you give
him credit for that. I think down the stretch of
the game, when the Rockets had both Shangoon and Kadi
out there. They're generally able to get a good shot
because the gravity of those two guys when they're on
the floor at once, you can find the matchup that
you want and you should be able to get a
pretty good shot unless you do something stupid and turn
(03:09):
the ball over. I think where it gets tricky are
the stretches when it's just one of them out there,
especially in the second half, because teams can really load
up against the one star that's out there, and then
you need your other four players, none of which are
an All Star, to be able to generate offense out
of those four and three scenarios. And that's where you know,
having a minimum player like Aaron Holliday is just so
(03:31):
important that is not one dimensional.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yes, he's a really good shooter.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
He's almost at fifty percent on threes this season and
is at about forty percent over his three years with
the Rockets, but he's also able to handle the ball drive.
He is able to do a lot of different things,
and that's so important to have role players that are
not one dimensional because to survive those minutes when especially
on the road like Cleveland has all the momentum they're
(03:56):
gonna take the ball out of and I think midway
through the fourth quarter it was Kadi was on the
floor and Shongoon was off, and so even though it
was a cold game for Katie, they were not going
to let Katie beat them once he checked back in
at about the seven to eight minute mark, and those were
the three minutes where Aaron Holliday just went off. And
a lot of times teams will sort of live with
the results out of those, you know, they give up
(04:17):
the four on three. But when you have a guy
like Holiday that can both shoot and handle the ball,
that's just so important. I don't know how the Rockets
are able to keep him for the minimum. Amazing work
by raphel Stone obviously, you know Imo Udoka, the culture
that he's instilled. I think for Aaron he's what twenty
nine years old now, I think that probably made him
a lot more likely to stick around because he's not
(04:39):
at the point of his career where you can reasonably
expect him to, you know, be given a much greater role.
So Rafel and e may hat tipped to them, but
I just think that from a roster composition perspective, to
have a guy near the end of your bench that
isn't one dimensional that can come in and fill it up,
not just as a shooter, but as a scorer. Even
though he's small, Dave, he's got a nice handle, he
(04:59):
can he's got a mid range game, he's got a floater.
That's just so important because as the Rockets play better teams,
especially on the road. And I also thought they got
a shaky whistle. You know, we can talk. The Cavs
missed some free throws. Jonavan Mitchell was terrible the first
three quarters well the counter. I thought the Rockets did
not get a good whistle, especially in the second half.
They missed a ton of shots right at the rim.
(05:20):
And yet they won by double digits on the road.
And of course a lot of that speaks to what
Aaron Holliday did. And I think having a player like
that is so important because when you're a good team
and you go on the road against other good teams,
they're going to do everything they can to take your
big guns out of the game. And so to have
a guy who on paper looks like your fourth or
fifth option in that unit able to do what Aaron
can do offensively as a shooter and a score that's
(05:42):
absolutely massive. Just to again before we go into the
individuals beyond Aaron, because certainly Shangun was the player of
the game, I think we need to start hat tip
to Rafel A. E. May for bringing back a player
who he didn't even start the season in the rotation.
But boy does he look like a rotation player now.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, you know, I believe he's five of seven from
the field, three off fo tonight from three he had
fourteen of his eighteen points. This is Aaron Holliday we're
talking about in the fourth quarter, which they needed them
because for much of this game, you know, the Rockets
kind of dominated on both ends, like they were good offensively,
not great, but they were good, and defensively they played
(06:17):
much better. But I mean, I will say also, the
Calves missed eight ton of shots. The Calves were four
of twenty three from three point range, I think up
till early third quarter, and we were making note of
this like, wow, this is laughably bad. And they finished
from that point four of twenty three going eight of sixteen,
which is when the roller coaster really kicked in and
the Rockets were, you know, trying to hold on for
(06:38):
dear life suddenly it was a I think, did they
get it as close to as one?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
I canted to one?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Okay, And you know, it was just kind of staggering
because it really did feel like the Rockets were crushing
the Calves for most of the first half. Second second
chance points dominated again by the Rockets, twenty one to six.
Adam's huge there, Shan gun as well, and you know,
it's just it's being talked about in the chat. There
(07:05):
was a third quarter when the Rockets. In the third
quarter of the Rockets were up ten or I believe
there were fourteen. Excuse me, they brought in a kind
of funky lineup and we noted in real time, why
is not is Holiday not coming in? And Tate was
coming in? And I don't want to blame Jayshonte for
the whole thing. This was only a little over two
minute stretch, but it was really ugly basketball, and they
(07:26):
went from fourteen to ten and then it quickly. You know,
even though they got that lineup out, it's still kept
going down. It really did. Was It was kind of
striking because Holiday did come in and was the hero
in the fourth. After that, I think I may probably
regrets it I'm not sure why he was going with
Jay shon Tate in that particular moment, but Holiday certainly
(07:47):
stepped up when you know, when called upon tonight.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, I think it was the combination of Tate, a Kogi,
and Capella. We talked about Holiday not being one dimensional.
That's three players right there. They are largely one dimensional.
And even if you're other two players or Kevin Durant
and Reed Shepherd, which I believe that was the five
at the time, I mean, that's a lot of the
court where defenders just aren't having to respect those areas
other than you know, a Kogi's a capable three point
(08:11):
shooter and then Tate. I also think Tate's a guy
if he gets a consistent role, I think he's still
a solid player. But I think Tate's a classic example
of someone who's not great in a pinch because he
tends to want to play too hard. And we've seen
in the last couple of weeks and these little cameos
that he's gotten, he's gotten into foul trouble. He's way
too aggressive, and I just think, you know, Tate's a
(08:33):
classic guy if he can settle into the game. But
this team is just too deep to give him the
type of minutes barring major injuries. If he can settle
into a game, then he'll probably be okay. But if
you're asking Tate to go out there and play, you know,
five ten minutes, I don't know, Like it's just for me.
His playing style. It's a classic setup where he's probably
going to try and do too much. In the last
couple of games when he's got in there, he's gotten
(08:54):
in foul trouble. And part of what let Cleveland back
in the game. They got in the bonus very early
in the third and fourth quarters, and so that's something
the Rockets, you know, the one benefit of the doubt
that will give to Emo Udoka. I could see, you know,
the first half of that game when they I think
the Cavs had just forty in the first half and
they were at thirty seven until the final minute of
the first half. I could see, you know, I'm sure
(09:17):
internally they loved how physical they were playing, and I
suspect they wanted to just win that game with physicality
and defense. And so in theory you bring in Tate
a Kogi Capella, that's that type of bruising lineup to
where maybe you can you know, impose your will on
the other team, especially because they went to the double
big with starting Steven Adams. I'm sure we'll talk about
that in a little bit, but I just think it
(09:37):
wasn't a great game, feel because when the Rockets went
to that Tate Capella a Kogi lineup, I think the
lead had already been cut from you know, it was
as large as twenty two, and I want to say
it was down to like twelve ish at that point.
So if you were up twenty or you were playing well,
I could sort of understand it saying, hey, like I
want to just maintain this physical advantage, but give the
(10:00):
game flow at that point, and that Cleveland was starting to,
you know, get into a rhythm offensively. I didn't like it.
It struck me as something that maybe email and the
staff talked about it at halftime and said this might
work for this particular game, but then the way the
third quarter started it didn't make sense. And so yeah,
it made things a lot harrier than they needed to be.
And then Davan Mitchell hit the Rockets with a haymaker.
(10:23):
But look, we can go both ways on the what
if thing, Like you mentioned the shots the Calves missed
and Donovan being called the first three quarters. But man,
Amen Thompson, like we've talked about it, he finished the
game well in the fourth quarter. He made a couple
of big plays down the stretch, but he had some
bunnies that he missed. Again, Steven Adams had a couple
kd went six to eighteen. So there's lots of what
(10:44):
ifs both ways. I mean, the bottom line, the Rockets
did what they needed to do. You know, the middle
of the fourth quarter it was anybody's game, and they
went out and after the Calves cut it to one
clearly with a better team down the final six to
seven minutes of the game winning time.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
And you know it started with there on holiday.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
But boy, when all friends Shangoon does individually what he
did against Evan Mobley. I loved his postgame interview with
Vanessa richardson where you know. Vanessa asked him about not
backing down in Shagoon's quote was, I don't back down
against anybody. Yeah, and so to go to the rim
and use his you know, physicality and bulk advantage to
you know, he paused, but he also knew that because
(11:19):
of the strength. If there was a contest, he could
create a little bit of extra space. And those are
big boy plays. And that's why I know I'm a
broken record on this point. But the whole point guard
issue for the Rockets and tonight they actually had three
point guards between a Man Reed and Aaron Holliday, But
for the season as a whole, without Fred and Fleet,
that's a first forty three minutes problem. The way they're
(11:39):
going to run the offense down the stretch of these
games is through KD and Shangoon. Tonight it was Shoangoon.
He played better for the game overall, and he played
at his absolute best when the game was on the line.
So kudos to ALTI. This is not a Kevin Durant
super team. This is, you know, a two headed monster Kevin.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Excuse me, Shanngoon. What I really was impressed by tonight
was his touch around the back. Yeah, I thought it
was really good. I mean, we're coming on the heels
of a thirty points in thirty one shots game and
this tonight was ten for seventeen. The efficiency was up.
He just looked very smooth, very comfortable. They didn't they
mobile did pick him up a lot in the second half,
I think, I believe if I'm remembering the timeframe, but
(12:18):
they had a lot of Dean Wade or Hunter on him.
They were throwing some sort of you know, wings fours
at him. He did a really good job. But he
had twelve of his twenty eight in the fourth, so
as you you know, to your point, he was the
one who closed up the game. Wasn't Katie. We'll call
Katie the closer, but you know, for sure of this team.
But tonight, Shanngun definitely closed it out.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And he also made eight of his ten free throws,
which is so big because overall, you know, he was
at sixty nine percent the last two years, he's at
seventy four percent. His season long numbers haven't updated yet,
so I think they'll probably be closer to seventy five
after tonight. I mean, that's a noticeable improvement at the
rate that he gets fouled, which to his credit, he's
also getting to the line more. But the fact that
(12:59):
he shooting thru throws in a much higher rate that makes
it a lot easier to buy in that. You know,
all these other things like the threes, the touch that
we've been talking about it makes it a lot easier
to buy in that it's not just statistical noise that
he actually has gotten better as a shooter as a
finisher with his touch when the free throws are going
up as well, because that's something that's, you know, between seasons,
fairly constant, and he's making them coming off of euro Basket.
(13:22):
We saw him do it there and it's absolutely translating
to the NBA. If he's a seventy five percent shooter
instead of a sixty nine percent shooter, that's a huge difference,
and it paid off down the stretch tonight, especially because
you know down the stretch of these close games he's
likely going to get foul. So if you're not having
to hold your breath when he goes to the line,
that's a big deal and it makes the rockets all
the more difficult to defend.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Absolutely agree, Yeah, he was terrific tonight. Speaking of Miss Bunny's,
you know, certainly Adam's had a few, but the one
late from by Jabari where he made that beautiful move
to do me through traffic got all the way to
the basket, I'm like, oh, that was incredible, Jabori, and
he made back iron the layup. I was just in
and then they went and quickly scored and you're like, okay,
the games still still going.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Although although I do contend the biggest individual shot of
the game in terms of and this is nothing other
than let's call it ben win expectancy, and this is
completely arbitrary, but the biggest ben win expectantly expectancy shot
at the game was that Jabari three from the wing,
right after Mitchell had hit a crazy shot to bring
(14:23):
them within two. It felt like the crowd was trying
to will them on and when Jabari hit that wing three.
And we've talked about it, Jabari has hit so many
big threes in the fourth quarter this year through what
just thirteen games, they're ten to three, so you still
have sixty nine or eighty two games left, and for
Jabari to have already done this down the stretch of games,
I know he needs to make the layups and the
(14:44):
same could be said for men. But yet again there's
Jabari with a massive shot when the game is on
the line.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, Jabari tonight three for six from three, team high
plus ten. This is you know this did was not
the case in past years. He has definitely grown up
and progressed and developed quite a bit, where to the
point where you're looking up and Jabari may there are
games where he's leading the team in plus minus. Yeah,
you know, a single box plus minus doesn't always tell
the story. I will always say that. But he is
(15:11):
up there in net rating with with everybody else. Yes,
he's not doing all like all the heavy lifting. Obviously
that's Katie and Shangoon a lot of that. But you know,
even when those guys are off the floor, his lineups
are holding up right now. So I got to give
kudos Tojbari. He had the little scuffle with Tomlin too,
which is great. I thought we were going to see
something happen there.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
But well, but and that's potentially useful for the Rockets
because you don't have Dylan Brooks anymore. So maybe Jabbari.
You know, on paper, he's the type of guy who
can be that type of enforcer to set the tone.
You don't necessarily want your stars to set the tone
in case, you know, it gets out of control and
somebody gets thrown out. You need a role player to
be what Dylan was the last couple of years, and
maybe Jabari and you're four is developing into that. No,
(15:51):
I agree with you that the plus minus doesn't lie
when it's a sample this large, And I think a
lot of it just comes down to he's so well rounded,
Like there's no clear deficiencies in this game, Like people ask,
you know, is he a good enough three point shooter?
Like you want him to be closer to forty percent
with you know, his profile coming out of Auburn. But
I think what's really happened and this doesn't stand out
(16:13):
because especially statistically, it doesn't jump off the page. But
he has no real weaknesses anymore. You know, the first
half of this game, I thought a Men was much
better defensively, and he did really good work against DODDVD Mitchell.
But I also thought when they were able to force switches,
Jabari and KD did really nice work on the perimeter
as well. So there were no easy places for the
Cavaliers to attack. That's largely been the case this year.
(16:36):
And you know, you talked about the Cavs shooting so well.
I mean you could also point out that maybe some
other teams, when the Rockets were struggling defensively earlier this year,
were shooting overly well, and so things were due to
even out. Maybe it evened out a little bit tonight
and that factored in with the Rockets. You know, even
though the Cavs got going in the second half one
hundred and four points, I suspect it's going to boost
the Rockets defensive rating by a good bit this performance tonight.
(16:58):
But to get back to JABORI look, there's just no
weaknesses Defensively, he can guard pretty much any position. He
can switch across the board. Offensively, he may not be
an elite shooter, but he's a very good one and
he has a profensacy for making even more as I
just mentioned, when the game's on the line, he can
attack closeouts. Now he can handle the ball in transition.
When you are a team that's top heavy the way
(17:19):
the Rockets are, and you have a couple of star players,
sometimes the most valuable pieces you can have around them
are guys that not necessarily are like really good in
some areas but bad in the others. No, you want
just well rounded, steady because if other teams are going
to try and take guys like Shingoon and Kdi out
of the game, then they're gonna hunt the weakness. And
even if Jabari you know, doesn't jump off the page
(17:42):
in terms of like what is this elite skill that
he has. I also don't see what the weakness is,
and I think that's why his numbers are so well.
Like the way teams defend the Rockets well, like they
try and force it to, you know, the weakest link.
And if guys like Jabari and then fourth quarter Aaron Holliday,
I guess you know, you can say, first half reach Shepherd,
he was really good. Let's give him his flowers. But yeah,
(18:03):
if guys like that are you know, somewhere between three
and five and your options on the floor at a
given time, that's when this team is really going to click,
because you know, it's the whole opposite of that tait A,
Kogie and Capella lineup, where you know, there's just so
many guys that depens don't have to respect. If if
you have well balanced players that are good in so
many areas, you combine that with a top heavy team
(18:26):
that has two All Stars, and you get what the
Rockets are, which is ten and three and increasingly trending upward.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, absolutely read Shepherd. Another guy like I don't want
to say tailor two havels he was really good in
the first he missed four of his final five shots,
got burned once or twice gambling. It's not the kind
of thing where he was. He got burned because of
his size, which is more of a rookie, you know,
last year's kind of thing. It was just him, you know.
He he gets a lot of great defensive plays because
(18:53):
he gambles, but a couple of times he gambled and
they kind of burned that. Hollins mentioned it on the broadcast.
But for the most part, he just looks comfortable overall. Tonight,
five of eleven, two of five from three, I mean
forty from three, two of five. You're like, oh, he's
off tonight. That's forty percent from three. You know, that's
reed Shepherd now, because he's that good, he's become that
(19:13):
good of a shooter that you expect him to go
three for five. You know, it's it's insane, and so
he I'll just continue to say, it's really good sign.
He was plus nine tonight. I think he led the
team in plus minus at half. He just doesn't you know,
I used to hold my breath when he came into
the game, and it's not the case anymore. He just
looks comfortable. Well, I'm sure he's gonna have moments where
(19:35):
he's still going to be burned defensively and all that stuff,
but the good is out weighing the bad at this
point certainly.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, he just looks so much more poised when he
has the ball in his hands. I think the shooting
was always going to come around. But what impresses me
most Dave, he seems like he's much more He's playing
within the flow of the game and taking what the
defense gives. Like I feel like what happened is rookie
season and maybe the first couple games this year, a
lot of times he predetermined what the reid was going
(20:04):
to be or what he was going to do when
he went inside the arc, and what you need to
do if you're undersized the way he is. You need
to be creative, you need to be cerebral. Like the
reason we compare the touch he has the mid range
game the floater to Chris Paul Like, obviously that's the
very high end outcome, but you know, Chris is able.
(20:27):
He's just so smart. He can always get to his
spots on the floor, and that's what it feels like.
Reid is getting much better at He was always worst
case going to be a good shooter who can space
the floor. But what we're seeing now and what really
encourages me, is he's getting much more comfortable when he's
forced inside the arc because as he makes more shots.
You know, I thought I was watching the Magic Game
(20:49):
the replay on Space City the day after, and what
stunned me on the Shangoon buzzer beater. You mentioned his touch,
By the way, that hook that Shangoon made in the
final second against Nathan Isaac was not as easy as
he made it look, and he might have gotten fouled.
They're probably not gonna call it there and given the stakes,
but sure there's contact. Jonathan Isaac's a long defender that's
really good touch, and so to your point, yeah, he's
(21:10):
absolutely improved in that area. But on that play, I
was watching the replay, Desmond Bain was all the way out,
thirty five feet away from the basket, you know, Reed
Shepherd was literally on the logo forty feet away, and
Bain was still coming out because they didn't want to
give Reid even that far out a shot to win
the game. And so that helped with the spacing there.
But I think where this ties into Reid's game tonight.
(21:32):
Look as he makes sports threes, people are going to
chase him off that line, so he's going to go
inside the line, and at his size, he can't always
get off. I guess the shot where he in advance
thinks he's probably going to get it. He has to
be able to adapt in you know, the blink of
an eye to whatever the defense is giving him. And
maybe it's going to the rim, maybe it's the floater,
(21:53):
maybe it's the mid range shot. Maybe it's going left,
maybe it's going right. There's all sorts of potential outcomes there,
but I don't think he is forcing it as much anymore.
He seems much more calm within himself. And so if
he can play with that level of IQ and anticipation
to where he's reading the game as it comes, he's
not predetermining, then yeah, that's how he can be not
(22:13):
just a shooter, but a very good, potentially great offensive
player overall.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
A scorer.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Reach Shepherd's got the shooting down, it's can he get
that scoring gene that's gonna determine whether or not he
eventually becomes the offensive star that the Rockets, according to
to McMahon BESPN, believe he can be and you know,
sample is still small, and you know, the second half
it wasn't It wasn't like.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
He played poorly.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
But I thought, you know, when the Cavaliers hit him
with that run, there's an obvious tendency to go back
to the more veteran laden guys as opposed to trusting
Read Shepherd. He's just not going to get the same
runway when the game is you know, gone from twenty
to two the way it had when Read was playing
in those second half minutes, largely not of his doing.
So I think just sort of game feel. That wasn't
necessarily a time for Reid to sort of put his
(22:56):
imprint on the game. And you know, it wasn't like
Holiday took over to clear Some people say, well, what
about Holiday, No, I think it's more Holiday started because
you know, they were shading off of him to cover
the likes of Kevin Durant and he got shots from
the flow of the offense. It wasn't necessarily a time
for Read to create in the half court the way
he did in the first half. But yeah, the first
half I thought was really encouraging. It's what we've seen
(23:17):
all year, and you don't want to put too much
on him because you know it's still just the first
month of his second season. But these are really promising
signs for a twenty one year old in just the
first month of year two.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, and I did love overall what we saw in
the first half. I'm a big defense guy. I love
the offense. Don't get me wrong. I love the Rockets
are number one in offense. They're hanging, you know, have
a slight edge here over the Nuggets number two. And
I love this. It's great, but I just know what
it's like when we get to the playoffs and how
big that defense is. So I love when I see
the Rockets play the way they did in the first half.
(23:51):
And Donovan or excuse me, men Thompson's point of Attech defense,
and he got a lot of help too. It wasn't
just him, but on Mitchell was fantastic. Mitchell had two points,
one of seven shooting through three quarters. All everything that
he did was in the fourth because he just started
firing away. But it leads me to the point here
we're talking about this offense defense thing where on Deck
(24:11):
is the Denver Nuggets and it is the NBA Cup
and the Rockets, you know, lost their first game in
NBA Cup. Action won their next one over the Blazers,
but that first one against the Spurs, we kind of thought, well,
you know, maybe their chances of getting in are going
to be a little bit tough. San Antonio's down Wamby,
They're down Castle. Now they're not going to have those
(24:32):
guys for their Cup. But they could lose, is what
I'm getting at. Rockets could pass them, but they have
two games remaining, Denver at home and Golden State on
the road. It's gonna be a great matchup because right now,
as far as offensive and defensive raiding, they are mirrors
of each other, Denver and Houston right now, like I said,
Houston's number one in offensive raiding, Denver's the number two.
(24:56):
And I think Denver is a better defensive team by
one plus points. So it's going to be really interesting
to watch this game. I'm really looking forward to it
Friday night. What do you think how this could play
out with the Cup and of course starting with this
game Friday.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, I think this to me feels like an all
pera in shing Goon game, like so much is going
to be focused on the the Chingun matchup versus Jokich
in the middle, and so I think Shinggoon typically takes
those games against Nicola pretty seriously, and there's added stakes
from the Cup this time, and I think it'll be
(25:31):
up and down. Both teams are good, but not great defensively. Offensively,
the firepower is through the roof. If you're Houston, you
know one of the things that I like. It's still
too early to say for sure, but you mentioned a
men's defense tonight being a lot better, which I would agree,
especially the first three quarters and on Donovan was bad
and the fourth It's more he just went on a
(25:52):
heater and hit some tough step back threes. But if
you buy into the idea that a men being the
full time point guard might take away from the juice
that he has defensively, I still think that's too early
to say. But if you had not only Read, but
also Aaron Holliday in your rotation, who can do a
decent bit of the ball handling, then potentially that gives
you the better version of a men as well, and
(26:13):
so hopefully you'll have that against Jamal Murray on Friday night. Look,
I think you know, Kevin Durant's the easy one to
point too, because he needs to shoot better than six
of eighteen what he did tonight. But look what Katie
has been doing the last ten days. He's going to
be fine. He's Kevin Durant, assuming health, I think, especially
in a big game, he's likely to step up. I
(26:33):
think it's that Shangoon Yokic matchup almost combine their names.
There not saying Shininggoo needs to outplay him, but I
think if he's competitive, and I think he's good enough to.
We saw the EuroBasket game, the all time Classic between
Turkey and Serbia that Turkey actually won, came back and
Shininggoon made a lot of plays down the stretch. If
(26:54):
you get that version of Shongoon, then I think the
rest of the Rockets it's not head and shoulders above Denver.
But if Shangoon is competitive with Jokic, then I like
the rockets chances at home with the other guys they
have relative to Denver supporting cast. So that's why I'm
focusing on that. Shininggoon obviously is the story going in
(27:15):
because he was the best player on the floor tonight
in Cleveland. But I also think just the way these
two teams stack up, if there's no clear advantage for
Yokich over Shangoon, and you know, there might be a
little bit of advantage, but there's no large advantage, then
I like houston chances. Like it's not such a commanding
advantage to where you'd say, well, they should win. No,
both teams are good, and if Denver has a good
(27:36):
shooting night and Houston's cold, then you know it is
what it is. But if Shangoon is competitive against Jokich
and you have to like your chances after what we
saw tonight against Devin Mobley, then I think Houston will
have every opportunity in the fourth quarter to win that game.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
It's it's kind of like when we talk about the rockets,
you know in past videos, you know, should you double Shangoon?
Should you take your chances and you know, not getting
burned by Katie and the other guys and leave him
single covered. Obviously you have to have a tough defender
on him. That's what I may, at least historically tries
to do here is let Shenggoon guard Jokic In the
(28:11):
post Jokic, I'm sure is gonna. In the past was inefficient.
Now there were some games where Jamal Murray was out
or other players were out, but still the Rockets beat them,
I think fully healthy. Uh in Denver, I think it
was last year. That's what I think. What I'm expecting.
It's going to be a game where Shangoon wants to
show out against Jokic, and I think they're going to
(28:31):
single cover him and try not to let you know,
those doubles because Jokic is kind of like Shangoon so
good at finding the open man.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
There's a lot of one on one on both sides.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yes, yeah, and so that's what I'm expecting in that game.
It's going to be a good one. And the stats
actually are out and Rockets still maintain their number one
offensive rating one twenty three even in Denver's number two
at one twenty two point two. So we'll see maybe
this game will will change that, hopefully not.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
A couple other quick comments from the chat, someone mentioned
the potential of, you know, using the three centers against Jokic.
I agree that they'll they'll try and play Shangoon one
on one as much as they can, but it is
a good tool to have in it has It's a
good club to have in your bag. Want to get
the analogy right, because if Shinogoon gets in foul trouble,
then yeah, it could be beneficial that you don't have
(29:20):
to put Shangoon on him. There are alternatives. And by
the way, I think the Rockets starting Steven tonight, I
think it went fairly well. But I think the bigger
picture takeaway there is that Jory and Finney Smith, whenever
he gets back, I still think that by the playoffs,
it is very likely that he is your fifth starter.
Like the fact that the Rockets went from starting I
think this was the first time since the first week
(29:41):
of the year that the Rockets started Steven and Alpi.
They had been starting Joshua Kogie and down sizing. But
the fact that they're still even with all these wins,
you know, they're ten and three, they've won ten in
or the last eleven, that they're still willing to sort of
switch mix and match tells you that there's still not
one hundred percent sold on any particular group being the group.
And so I think that assuming he comes back healthy,
(30:02):
I still think Dori Anthony Smith is eventually the guy
barring and improbable Fred VanVleet return late in the season,
but for now, Yeah, it's very useful that you can
that you can turn to that and these games coming up. Yeah, Denver,
you might need the additional size against Jokich. If Shinangun
gets in foul.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Trouble the Warriors.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
We know what the double Big did against them in
the playoffs, and that's the other NBA Cup game coming up.
You mentioned the injuries the Spurs have, so I can't
see the Spurs winning at both Portland and Denver without
wembyan Castle. So I think it's all right in front
of the Rockets. If they win these last two games,
I think it's overwhelmingly likely that they that they win
the group. Not mathematically certain, but very likely. So yeah,
(30:39):
it's all in front of them, and I feel like
they'll go as far as Shining Gun can take them
in this matchup against Jokich and coming off a game
like tonight, like you've got to feel good about it.
And the last coming in the chat, I want to
address someone asking why aren't more people talking about the Rockets. Well,
I think if you look at the National TV slate,
a lot of the Rockets games on big networks are
(30:59):
in the second half of the season. I don't know
why that's the case, but they actually haven't had a
ton of marquee matchups on national TV the first night
or the first month. Excuse me, Tonight was one of them.
Tonight was an ESPN game in addition to Space City.
So I suspect, especially with the Rockets having won ten
to eleven and now there's another national game on Friday,
I suspect over the next twenty four to forty eight
(31:21):
hours you're going to hear a lot more talk about
the Rockets nationally because it's too good to ignore. And
now they're getting those national spotlight games.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yep. So we'll pab have Rockets Denver on Friday. Three
twenty point scores already this year Denver currently with Gordon
Murray and Jokic, that's going to be a great game.
And keep in mind, to Ben's point, Rockets really I'll
say three, but they're missing two key rotation players that
will be back this year, and Dorian Finney Smith and
of course Tarry East and I mean Fred is a
(31:49):
huge player for this team, but he's he could come back,
but unlikely to come back this year, and of course
you know next year's team could change. So it's just amazing.
The Rockets are ten and three at this point, missing
some of the so fantastic all around work for the Rockets.
Huge win, Ben, I appreciate you doing this. We will
be back Friday night. Thanks everybody,
Welcome into the post game. The Rockets get a huge
one fourteen to one oh four win in Cleveland, a
game that felt a bit like a roller coaster ride
without much thrilling, you know rides as far as our
emotional dips. In the first half, Rockets pretty much dominated
that game and you felt like they were up by
thirty plus. Then the drama unfolded in the third and
(00:23):
early fourth, and the Rockets sort of held on for
dear life. But Ben Aaron Holliday comes up really big
in the fourth quarter and then Shangoon closes him out
on a night when Kevin Durant really didn't have it going.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Well, and it was a weird game from the start,
as you mentioned, But I think big picture, Dave. You've
got a spreadsheet in which you keep track of expected
wins and losses. Yeah, for me, this is a really
good win. It doesn't matter how you got it. This
was a sixty four win team from a year ago,
you were on the road. On paper, this is one
of your most difficult games all year. I know they
(00:57):
didn't have Jerius Garland and a couple other guys were
out as well.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Well.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
The Rockets don't have Tarry Easton or Anthony Smith Frendin Fleet.
So I don't think the Rockets ride an injury advantaged
by any means. So to get this win on the
road against a Cleveland team with Donovan Mitchell and he
struggled in the first three quarters, was great in the fourth.
Had Evan Mobley had shared Allen before we get to
the individual story lines like this has to be one
of the best wins that you can have all your
(01:21):
longs strictly from a probability perspective, right.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yeah, I absolutely agree. I mean it's funny you say
that because I actually just updated the spreadsheet, hadn't done
it in a couple of games. This puts them right
back on track now. Detroit game put them a game behind.
This was a game I projected the Rockets to lose
and they pull it out. But yeah, I mean, Rockets
ten and three. Their net rating is up there with
the elite teams. You got to be excited about where
(01:47):
they are now. I will say there's a lot to
pick apart in this game, and a lot of good
things as well. But on a night when Katie I
believe he finished six of eighteen, I have to double
check the box. You know, the guy who is your clothes. Really,
it was so nice to see Holiday make hit big
shots in the fourth quarter and then Shangoon sort of
play the role of closer and close them out. That
(02:11):
just shows you that there's a lot of versatility with
the team and they can beat you in a variety
of ways.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, and I think it speaks to just how aware
Kevin Durant is of Alperin Changoon, Like there's a clear
respect there, because this is not the first time we
talked about it. Late in the Orlando game the Milwaukee game, Kad,
for all of his accomplishments, is willing to take a
back seat, especially if Alperin Shangoon has it going on,
which he did tonight, and Kad, for his part, was struggling.
(02:37):
So I think that's good awareness by Kevin. It would
be easy for someone that's as accomplished as he is,
a multi time champion, former MVP Perennial all start to say, hey, this.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
Is my time.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
No, he's increasingly shown a willingness to defer if it's
in the best entriest of the team, So you give
him credit for that. I think down the stretch of
the game, when the Rockets had both Shangoon and Kadi
out there. They're generally able to get a good shot
because the gravity of those two guys when they're on
the floor at once, you can find the matchup that
you want and you should be able to get a
pretty good shot unless you do something stupid and turn
(03:09):
the ball over. I think where it gets tricky are
the stretches when it's just one of them out there,
especially in the second half, because teams can really load
up against the one star that's out there, and then
you need your other four players, none of which are
an All Star, to be able to generate offense out
of those four and three scenarios. And that's where you know,
having a minimum player like Aaron Holliday is just so
(03:31):
important that is not one dimensional.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
Yes, he's a really good shooter.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
He's almost at fifty percent on threes this season and
is at about forty percent over his three years with
the Rockets, but he's also able to handle the ball drive.
He is able to do a lot of different things,
and that's so important to have role players that are
not one dimensional because to survive those minutes when especially
on the road like Cleveland has all the momentum they're
(03:56):
gonna take the ball out of and I think midway
through the fourth quarter it was Kadi was on the
floor and Shongoon was off, and so even though it
was a cold game for Katie, they were not going
to let Katie beat them once he checked back in
at about the seven to eight minute mark, and those were
the three minutes where Aaron Holliday just went off. And
a lot of times teams will sort of live with
the results out of those, you know, they give up
(04:17):
the four on three. But when you have a guy
like Holiday that can both shoot and handle the ball,
that's just so important. I don't know how the Rockets
are able to keep him for the minimum. Amazing work
by raphel Stone obviously, you know Imo Udoka, the culture
that he's instilled. I think for Aaron he's what twenty
nine years old now, I think that probably made him
a lot more likely to stick around because he's not
(04:39):
at the point of his career where you can reasonably
expect him to, you know, be given a much greater role.
So Rafel and e may hat tipped to them, but
I just think that from a roster composition perspective, to
have a guy near the end of your bench that
isn't one dimensional that can come in and fill it up,
not just as a shooter, but as a scorer. Even
though he's small, Dave, he's got a nice handle, he
(04:59):
can he's got a mid range game, he's got a floater.
That's just so important because as the Rockets play better teams,
especially on the road. And I also thought they got
a shaky whistle. You know, we can talk. The Cavs
missed some free throws. Jonavan Mitchell was terrible the first
three quarters well the counter. I thought the Rockets did
not get a good whistle, especially in the second half.
They missed a ton of shots right at the rim.
(05:20):
And yet they won by double digits on the road.
And of course a lot of that speaks to what
Aaron Holliday did. And I think having a player like
that is so important because when you're a good team
and you go on the road against other good teams,
they're going to do everything they can to take your
big guns out of the game. And so to have
a guy who on paper looks like your fourth or
fifth option in that unit able to do what Aaron
can do offensively as a shooter and a score that's
(05:42):
absolutely massive. Just to again before we go into the
individuals beyond Aaron, because certainly Shangun was the player of
the game, I think we need to start hat tip
to Rafel A. E. May for bringing back a player
who he didn't even start the season in the rotation.
But boy does he look like a rotation player now.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
Yeah, you know, I believe he's five of seven from
the field, three off fo tonight from three he had
fourteen of his eighteen points. This is Aaron Holliday we're
talking about in the fourth quarter, which they needed them
because for much of this game, you know, the Rockets
kind of dominated on both ends, like they were good offensively,
not great, but they were good, and defensively they played
(06:17):
much better. But I mean, I will say also, the
Calves missed eight ton of shots. The Calves were four
of twenty three from three point range, I think up
till early third quarter, and we were making note of
this like, wow, this is laughably bad. And they finished
from that point four of twenty three going eight of sixteen,
which is when the roller coaster really kicked in and
the Rockets were, you know, trying to hold on for
(06:38):
dear life suddenly it was a I think, did they
get it as close to as one?
Speaker 3 (06:41):
I canted to one?
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Okay, And you know, it was just kind of staggering
because it really did feel like the Rockets were crushing
the Calves for most of the first half. Second second
chance points dominated again by the Rockets, twenty one to six.
Adam's huge there, Shan gun as well, and you know,
it's just it's being talked about in the chat. There
(07:05):
was a third quarter when the Rockets. In the third
quarter of the Rockets were up ten or I believe
there were fourteen. Excuse me, they brought in a kind
of funky lineup and we noted in real time, why
is not is Holiday not coming in? And Tate was
coming in? And I don't want to blame Jayshonte for
the whole thing. This was only a little over two
minute stretch, but it was really ugly basketball, and they
(07:26):
went from fourteen to ten and then it quickly. You know,
even though they got that lineup out, it's still kept
going down. It really did. Was It was kind of
striking because Holiday did come in and was the hero
in the fourth. After that, I think I may probably
regrets it I'm not sure why he was going with
Jay shon Tate in that particular moment, but Holiday certainly
(07:47):
stepped up when you know, when called upon tonight.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Well, I think it was the combination of Tate, a Kogi,
and Capella. We talked about Holiday not being one dimensional.
That's three players right there. They are largely one dimensional.
And even if you're other two players or Kevin Durant
and Reed Shepherd, which I believe that was the five
at the time, I mean, that's a lot of the
court where defenders just aren't having to respect those areas
other than you know, a Kogi's a capable three point
(08:11):
shooter and then Tate. I also think Tate's a guy
if he gets a consistent role, I think he's still
a solid player. But I think Tate's a classic example
of someone who's not great in a pinch because he
tends to want to play too hard. And we've seen
in the last couple of weeks and these little cameos
that he's gotten, he's gotten into foul trouble. He's way
too aggressive, and I just think, you know, Tate's a
(08:33):
classic guy if he can settle into the game. But
this team is just too deep to give him the
type of minutes barring major injuries. If he can settle
into a game, then he'll probably be okay. But if
you're asking Tate to go out there and play, you know,
five ten minutes, I don't know, Like it's just for me.
His playing style. It's a classic setup where he's probably
going to try and do too much. In the last
couple of games when he's got in there, he's gotten
(08:54):
in foul trouble. And part of what let Cleveland back
in the game. They got in the bonus very early
in the third and fourth quarters, and so that's something
the Rockets, you know, the one benefit of the doubt
that will give to Emo Udoka. I could see, you know,
the first half of that game when they I think
the Cavs had just forty in the first half and
they were at thirty seven until the final minute of
the first half. I could see, you know, I'm sure
(09:17):
internally they loved how physical they were playing, and I
suspect they wanted to just win that game with physicality
and defense. And so in theory you bring in Tate
a Kogi Capella, that's that type of bruising lineup to
where maybe you can you know, impose your will on
the other team, especially because they went to the double
big with starting Steven Adams. I'm sure we'll talk about
that in a little bit, but I just think it
(09:37):
wasn't a great game, feel because when the Rockets went
to that Tate Capella a Kogi lineup, I think the
lead had already been cut from you know, it was
as large as twenty two, and I want to say
it was down to like twelve ish at that point.
So if you were up twenty or you were playing well,
I could sort of understand it saying, hey, like I
want to just maintain this physical advantage, but give the
(10:00):
game flow at that point, and that Cleveland was starting to,
you know, get into a rhythm offensively. I didn't like it.
It struck me as something that maybe email and the
staff talked about it at halftime and said this might
work for this particular game, but then the way the
third quarter started it didn't make sense. And so yeah,
it made things a lot harrier than they needed to be.
And then Davan Mitchell hit the Rockets with a haymaker.
(10:23):
But look, we can go both ways on the what
if thing, Like you mentioned the shots the Calves missed
and Donovan being called the first three quarters. But man,
Amen Thompson, like we've talked about it, he finished the
game well in the fourth quarter. He made a couple
of big plays down the stretch, but he had some
bunnies that he missed. Again, Steven Adams had a couple
kd went six to eighteen. So there's lots of what
(10:44):
ifs both ways. I mean, the bottom line, the Rockets
did what they needed to do. You know, the middle
of the fourth quarter it was anybody's game, and they
went out and after the Calves cut it to one
clearly with a better team down the final six to
seven minutes of the game winning time.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
And you know it started with there on holiday.
Speaker 2 (10:58):
But boy, when all friends Shangoon does individually what he
did against Evan Mobley. I loved his postgame interview with
Vanessa richardson where you know. Vanessa asked him about not
backing down in Shagoon's quote was, I don't back down
against anybody. Yeah, and so to go to the rim
and use his you know, physicality and bulk advantage to
you know, he paused, but he also knew that because
(11:19):
of the strength. If there was a contest, he could
create a little bit of extra space. And those are
big boy plays. And that's why I know I'm a
broken record on this point. But the whole point guard
issue for the Rockets and tonight they actually had three
point guards between a Man Reed and Aaron Holliday, But
for the season as a whole, without Fred and Fleet,
that's a first forty three minutes problem. The way they're
(11:39):
going to run the offense down the stretch of these
games is through KD and Shangoon. Tonight it was Shoangoon.
He played better for the game overall, and he played
at his absolute best when the game was on the line.
So kudos to ALTI. This is not a Kevin Durant
super team. This is, you know, a two headed monster Kevin.
Speaker 1 (11:55):
Excuse me, Shanngoon. What I really was impressed by tonight
was his touch around the back. Yeah, I thought it
was really good. I mean, we're coming on the heels
of a thirty points in thirty one shots game and
this tonight was ten for seventeen. The efficiency was up.
He just looked very smooth, very comfortable. They didn't they
mobile did pick him up a lot in the second half,
I think, I believe if I'm remembering the timeframe, but
(12:18):
they had a lot of Dean Wade or Hunter on him.
They were throwing some sort of you know, wings fours
at him. He did a really good job. But he
had twelve of his twenty eight in the fourth, so
as you you know, to your point, he was the
one who closed up the game. Wasn't Katie. We'll call
Katie the closer, but you know, for sure of this team.
But tonight, Shanngun definitely closed it out.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
And he also made eight of his ten free throws,
which is so big because overall, you know, he was
at sixty nine percent the last two years, he's at
seventy four percent. His season long numbers haven't updated yet,
so I think they'll probably be closer to seventy five
after tonight. I mean, that's a noticeable improvement at the
rate that he gets fouled, which to his credit, he's
also getting to the line more. But the fact that
(12:59):
he shooting thru throws in a much higher rate that makes
it a lot easier to buy in that. You know,
all these other things like the threes, the touch that
we've been talking about it makes it a lot easier
to buy in that it's not just statistical noise that
he actually has gotten better as a shooter as a
finisher with his touch when the free throws are going
up as well, because that's something that's, you know, between seasons,
fairly constant, and he's making them coming off of euro Basket.
(13:22):
We saw him do it there and it's absolutely translating
to the NBA. If he's a seventy five percent shooter
instead of a sixty nine percent shooter, that's a huge difference,
and it paid off down the stretch tonight, especially because
you know down the stretch of these close games he's
likely going to get foul. So if you're not having
to hold your breath when he goes to the line,
that's a big deal and it makes the rockets all
the more difficult to defend.
Speaker 1 (13:42):
Absolutely agree, Yeah, he was terrific tonight. Speaking of Miss Bunny's,
you know, certainly Adam's had a few, but the one
late from by Jabari where he made that beautiful move
to do me through traffic got all the way to
the basket, I'm like, oh, that was incredible, Jabori, and
he made back iron the layup. I was just in
and then they went and quickly scored and you're like, okay,
the games still still going.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Although although I do contend the biggest individual shot of
the game in terms of and this is nothing other
than let's call it ben win expectancy, and this is
completely arbitrary, but the biggest ben win expectantly expectancy shot
at the game was that Jabari three from the wing,
right after Mitchell had hit a crazy shot to bring
(14:23):
them within two. It felt like the crowd was trying
to will them on and when Jabari hit that wing three.
And we've talked about it, Jabari has hit so many
big threes in the fourth quarter this year through what
just thirteen games, they're ten to three, so you still
have sixty nine or eighty two games left, and for
Jabari to have already done this down the stretch of games,
I know he needs to make the layups and the
(14:44):
same could be said for men. But yet again there's
Jabari with a massive shot when the game is on
the line.
Speaker 1 (14:49):
Yeah, Jabari tonight three for six from three, team high
plus ten. This is you know this did was not
the case in past years. He has definitely grown up
and progressed and developed quite a bit, where to the
point where you're looking up and Jabari may there are
games where he's leading the team in plus minus. Yeah,
you know, a single box plus minus doesn't always tell
the story. I will always say that. But he is
(15:11):
up there in net rating with with everybody else. Yes,
he's not doing all like all the heavy lifting. Obviously
that's Katie and Shangoon a lot of that. But you know,
even when those guys are off the floor, his lineups
are holding up right now. So I got to give
kudos Tojbari. He had the little scuffle with Tomlin too,
which is great. I thought we were going to see
something happen there.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
But well, but and that's potentially useful for the Rockets
because you don't have Dylan Brooks anymore. So maybe Jabbari.
You know, on paper, he's the type of guy who
can be that type of enforcer to set the tone.
You don't necessarily want your stars to set the tone
in case, you know, it gets out of control and
somebody gets thrown out. You need a role player to
be what Dylan was the last couple of years, and
maybe Jabari and you're four is developing into that. No,
(15:51):
I agree with you that the plus minus doesn't lie
when it's a sample this large, And I think a
lot of it just comes down to he's so well rounded,
Like there's no clear deficiencies in this game, Like people ask,
you know, is he a good enough three point shooter?
Like you want him to be closer to forty percent
with you know, his profile coming out of Auburn. But
I think what's really happened and this doesn't stand out
(16:13):
because especially statistically, it doesn't jump off the page. But
he has no real weaknesses anymore. You know, the first
half of this game, I thought a Men was much
better defensively, and he did really good work against DODDVD Mitchell.
But I also thought when they were able to force switches,
Jabari and KD did really nice work on the perimeter
as well. So there were no easy places for the
Cavaliers to attack. That's largely been the case this year.
(16:36):
And you know, you talked about the Cavs shooting so well.
I mean you could also point out that maybe some
other teams, when the Rockets were struggling defensively earlier this year,
were shooting overly well, and so things were due to
even out. Maybe it evened out a little bit tonight
and that factored in with the Rockets. You know, even
though the Cavs got going in the second half one
hundred and four points, I suspect it's going to boost
the Rockets defensive rating by a good bit this performance tonight.
(16:58):
But to get back to JABORI look, there's just no
weaknesses Defensively, he can guard pretty much any position. He
can switch across the board. Offensively, he may not be
an elite shooter, but he's a very good one and
he has a profensacy for making even more as I
just mentioned, when the game's on the line, he can
attack closeouts. Now he can handle the ball in transition.
When you are a team that's top heavy the way
(17:19):
the Rockets are, and you have a couple of star players,
sometimes the most valuable pieces you can have around them
are guys that not necessarily are like really good in
some areas but bad in the others. No, you want
just well rounded, steady because if other teams are going
to try and take guys like Shingoon and Kdi out
of the game, then they're gonna hunt the weakness. And
even if Jabari you know, doesn't jump off the page
(17:42):
in terms of like what is this elite skill that
he has. I also don't see what the weakness is,
and I think that's why his numbers are so well.
Like the way teams defend the Rockets well, like they
try and force it to, you know, the weakest link.
And if guys like Jabari and then fourth quarter Aaron Holliday,
I guess you know, you can say, first half reach Shepherd,
he was really good. Let's give him his flowers. But yeah,
(18:03):
if guys like that are you know, somewhere between three
and five and your options on the floor at a
given time, that's when this team is really going to click,
because you know, it's the whole opposite of that tait A,
Kogie and Capella lineup, where you know, there's just so
many guys that depens don't have to respect. If if
you have well balanced players that are good in so
many areas, you combine that with a top heavy team
(18:26):
that has two All Stars, and you get what the
Rockets are, which is ten and three and increasingly trending upward.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Yeah, absolutely read Shepherd. Another guy like I don't want
to say tailor two havels he was really good in
the first he missed four of his final five shots,
got burned once or twice gambling. It's not the kind
of thing where he was. He got burned because of
his size, which is more of a rookie, you know,
last year's kind of thing. It was just him, you know.
He he gets a lot of great defensive plays because
(18:53):
he gambles, but a couple of times he gambled and
they kind of burned that. Hollins mentioned it on the broadcast.
But for the most part, he just looks comfortable overall. Tonight,
five of eleven, two of five from three, I mean
forty from three, two of five. You're like, oh, he's
off tonight. That's forty percent from three. You know, that's
reed Shepherd now, because he's that good, he's become that
(19:13):
good of a shooter that you expect him to go
three for five. You know, it's it's insane, and so
he I'll just continue to say, it's really good sign.
He was plus nine tonight. I think he led the
team in plus minus at half. He just doesn't you know,
I used to hold my breath when he came into
the game, and it's not the case anymore. He just
looks comfortable. Well, I'm sure he's gonna have moments where
(19:35):
he's still going to be burned defensively and all that stuff,
but the good is out weighing the bad at this
point certainly.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, he just looks so much more poised when he
has the ball in his hands. I think the shooting
was always going to come around. But what impresses me
most Dave, he seems like he's much more He's playing
within the flow of the game and taking what the
defense gives. Like I feel like what happened is rookie
season and maybe the first couple games this year, a
lot of times he predetermined what the reid was going
(20:04):
to be or what he was going to do when
he went inside the arc, and what you need to
do if you're undersized the way he is. You need
to be creative, you need to be cerebral. Like the
reason we compare the touch he has the mid range
game the floater to Chris Paul Like, obviously that's the
very high end outcome, but you know, Chris is able.
(20:27):
He's just so smart. He can always get to his
spots on the floor, and that's what it feels like.
Reid is getting much better at He was always worst
case going to be a good shooter who can space
the floor. But what we're seeing now and what really
encourages me, is he's getting much more comfortable when he's
forced inside the arc because as he makes more shots.
You know, I thought I was watching the Magic Game
(20:49):
the replay on Space City the day after, and what
stunned me on the Shangoon buzzer beater. You mentioned his touch,
By the way, that hook that Shangoon made in the
final second against Nathan Isaac was not as easy as
he made it look, and he might have gotten fouled.
They're probably not gonna call it there and given the stakes,
but sure there's contact. Jonathan Isaac's a long defender that's
really good touch, and so to your point, yeah, he's
(21:10):
absolutely improved in that area. But on that play, I
was watching the replay, Desmond Bain was all the way out,
thirty five feet away from the basket, you know, Reed
Shepherd was literally on the logo forty feet away, and
Bain was still coming out because they didn't want to
give Reid even that far out a shot to win
the game. And so that helped with the spacing there.
But I think where this ties into Reid's game tonight.
(21:32):
Look as he makes sports threes, people are going to
chase him off that line, so he's going to go
inside the line, and at his size, he can't always
get off. I guess the shot where he in advance
thinks he's probably going to get it. He has to
be able to adapt in you know, the blink of
an eye to whatever the defense is giving him. And
maybe it's going to the rim, maybe it's the floater,
(21:53):
maybe it's the mid range shot. Maybe it's going left,
maybe it's going right. There's all sorts of potential outcomes there,
but I don't think he is forcing it as much anymore.
He seems much more calm within himself. And so if
he can play with that level of IQ and anticipation
to where he's reading the game as it comes, he's
not predetermining, then yeah, that's how he can be not
(22:13):
just a shooter, but a very good, potentially great offensive
player overall.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
A scorer.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
Reach Shepherd's got the shooting down, it's can he get
that scoring gene that's gonna determine whether or not he
eventually becomes the offensive star that the Rockets, according to
to McMahon BESPN, believe he can be and you know,
sample is still small, and you know, the second half
it wasn't It wasn't like.
Speaker 3 (22:34):
He played poorly.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
But I thought, you know, when the Cavaliers hit him
with that run, there's an obvious tendency to go back
to the more veteran laden guys as opposed to trusting
Read Shepherd. He's just not going to get the same
runway when the game is you know, gone from twenty
to two the way it had when Read was playing
in those second half minutes, largely not of his doing.
So I think just sort of game feel. That wasn't
necessarily a time for Reid to sort of put his
(22:56):
imprint on the game. And you know, it wasn't like
Holiday took over to clear Some people say, well, what
about Holiday, No, I think it's more Holiday started because
you know, they were shading off of him to cover
the likes of Kevin Durant and he got shots from
the flow of the offense. It wasn't necessarily a time
for Read to create in the half court the way
he did in the first half. But yeah, the first
half I thought was really encouraging. It's what we've seen
(23:17):
all year, and you don't want to put too much
on him because you know it's still just the first
month of his second season. But these are really promising
signs for a twenty one year old in just the
first month of year two.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Yeah, and I did love overall what we saw in
the first half. I'm a big defense guy. I love
the offense. Don't get me wrong. I love the Rockets
are number one in offense. They're hanging, you know, have
a slight edge here over the Nuggets number two. And
I love this. It's great, but I just know what
it's like when we get to the playoffs and how
big that defense is. So I love when I see
the Rockets play the way they did in the first half.
(23:51):
And Donovan or excuse me, men Thompson's point of Attech defense,
and he got a lot of help too. It wasn't
just him, but on Mitchell was fantastic. Mitchell had two points,
one of seven shooting through three quarters. All everything that
he did was in the fourth because he just started
firing away. But it leads me to the point here
we're talking about this offense defense thing where on Deck
(24:11):
is the Denver Nuggets and it is the NBA Cup
and the Rockets, you know, lost their first game in
NBA Cup. Action won their next one over the Blazers,
but that first one against the Spurs, we kind of thought, well,
you know, maybe their chances of getting in are going
to be a little bit tough. San Antonio's down Wamby,
They're down Castle. Now they're not going to have those
(24:32):
guys for their Cup. But they could lose, is what
I'm getting at. Rockets could pass them, but they have
two games remaining, Denver at home and Golden State on
the road. It's gonna be a great matchup because right now,
as far as offensive and defensive raiding, they are mirrors
of each other, Denver and Houston right now, like I said,
Houston's number one in offensive raiding, Denver's the number two.
(24:56):
And I think Denver is a better defensive team by
one plus points. So it's going to be really interesting
to watch this game. I'm really looking forward to it
Friday night. What do you think how this could play
out with the Cup and of course starting with this
game Friday.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Yeah, I think this to me feels like an all
pera in shing Goon game, like so much is going
to be focused on the the Chingun matchup versus Jokich
in the middle, and so I think Shinggoon typically takes
those games against Nicola pretty seriously, and there's added stakes
from the Cup this time, and I think it'll be
(25:31):
up and down. Both teams are good, but not great defensively. Offensively,
the firepower is through the roof. If you're Houston, you
know one of the things that I like. It's still
too early to say for sure, but you mentioned a
men's defense tonight being a lot better, which I would agree,
especially the first three quarters and on Donovan was bad
and the fourth It's more he just went on a
(25:52):
heater and hit some tough step back threes. But if
you buy into the idea that a men being the
full time point guard might take away from the juice
that he has defensively, I still think that's too early
to say. But if you had not only Read, but
also Aaron Holliday in your rotation, who can do a
decent bit of the ball handling, then potentially that gives
you the better version of a men as well, and
(26:13):
so hopefully you'll have that against Jamal Murray on Friday night. Look,
I think you know, Kevin Durant's the easy one to
point too, because he needs to shoot better than six
of eighteen what he did tonight. But look what Katie
has been doing the last ten days. He's going to
be fine. He's Kevin Durant, assuming health, I think, especially
in a big game, he's likely to step up. I
(26:33):
think it's that Shangoon Yokic matchup almost combine their names.
There not saying Shininggoo needs to outplay him, but I
think if he's competitive, and I think he's good enough to.
We saw the EuroBasket game, the all time Classic between
Turkey and Serbia that Turkey actually won, came back and
Shininggoon made a lot of plays down the stretch. If
(26:54):
you get that version of Shongoon, then I think the
rest of the Rockets it's not head and shoulders above Denver.
But if Shangoon is competitive with Jokic, then I like
the rockets chances at home with the other guys they
have relative to Denver supporting cast. So that's why I'm
focusing on that. Shininggoon obviously is the story going in
(27:15):
because he was the best player on the floor tonight
in Cleveland. But I also think just the way these
two teams stack up, if there's no clear advantage for
Yokich over Shangoon, and you know, there might be a
little bit of advantage, but there's no large advantage, then
I like houston chances. Like it's not such a commanding
advantage to where you'd say, well, they should win. No,
both teams are good, and if Denver has a good
(27:36):
shooting night and Houston's cold, then you know it is
what it is. But if Shangoon is competitive against Jokich
and you have to like your chances after what we
saw tonight against Devin Mobley, then I think Houston will
have every opportunity in the fourth quarter to win that game.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
It's it's kind of like when we talk about the rockets,
you know in past videos, you know, should you double Shangoon?
Should you take your chances and you know, not getting
burned by Katie and the other guys and leave him
single covered. Obviously you have to have a tough defender
on him. That's what I may, at least historically tries
to do here is let Shenggoon guard Jokic In the
(28:11):
post Jokic, I'm sure is gonna. In the past was inefficient.
Now there were some games where Jamal Murray was out
or other players were out, but still the Rockets beat them,
I think fully healthy. Uh in Denver, I think it
was last year. That's what I think. What I'm expecting.
It's going to be a game where Shangoon wants to
show out against Jokic, and I think they're going to
(28:31):
single cover him and try not to let you know,
those doubles because Jokic is kind of like Shangoon so
good at finding the open man.
Speaker 3 (28:38):
There's a lot of one on one on both sides.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yes, yeah, and so that's what I'm expecting in that game.
It's going to be a good one. And the stats
actually are out and Rockets still maintain their number one
offensive rating one twenty three even in Denver's number two
at one twenty two point two. So we'll see maybe
this game will will change that, hopefully not.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
A couple other quick comments from the chat, someone mentioned
the potential of, you know, using the three centers against Jokic.
I agree that they'll they'll try and play Shangoon one
on one as much as they can, but it is
a good tool to have in it has It's a
good club to have in your bag. Want to get
the analogy right, because if Shinogoon gets in foul trouble,
then yeah, it could be beneficial that you don't have
(29:20):
to put Shangoon on him. There are alternatives. And by
the way, I think the Rockets starting Steven tonight, I
think it went fairly well. But I think the bigger
picture takeaway there is that Jory and Finney Smith, whenever
he gets back, I still think that by the playoffs,
it is very likely that he is your fifth starter.
Like the fact that the Rockets went from starting I
think this was the first time since the first week
(29:41):
of the year that the Rockets started Steven and Alpi.
They had been starting Joshua Kogie and down sizing. But
the fact that they're still even with all these wins,
you know, they're ten and three, they've won ten in
or the last eleven, that they're still willing to sort of
switch mix and match tells you that there's still not
one hundred percent sold on any particular group being the group.
And so I think that assuming he comes back healthy,
(30:02):
I still think Dori Anthony Smith is eventually the guy
barring and improbable Fred VanVleet return late in the season,
but for now, Yeah, it's very useful that you can
that you can turn to that and these games coming up. Yeah, Denver,
you might need the additional size against Jokich. If Shinangun
gets in foul.
Speaker 3 (30:17):
Trouble the Warriors.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
We know what the double Big did against them in
the playoffs, and that's the other NBA Cup game coming up.
You mentioned the injuries the Spurs have, so I can't
see the Spurs winning at both Portland and Denver without
wembyan Castle. So I think it's all right in front
of the Rockets. If they win these last two games,
I think it's overwhelmingly likely that they that they win
the group. Not mathematically certain, but very likely. So yeah,
(30:39):
it's all in front of them, and I feel like
they'll go as far as Shining Gun can take them
in this matchup against Jokich and coming off a game
like tonight, like you've got to feel good about it.
And the last coming in the chat, I want to
address someone asking why aren't more people talking about the Rockets. Well,
I think if you look at the National TV slate,
a lot of the Rockets games on big networks are
(30:59):
in the second half of the season. I don't know
why that's the case, but they actually haven't had a
ton of marquee matchups on national TV the first night
or the first month. Excuse me, Tonight was one of them.
Tonight was an ESPN game in addition to Space City.
So I suspect, especially with the Rockets having won ten
to eleven and now there's another national game on Friday,
I suspect over the next twenty four to forty eight
(31:21):
hours you're going to hear a lot more talk about
the Rockets nationally because it's too good to ignore. And
now they're getting those national spotlight games.
Speaker 1 (31:27):
Yep. So we'll pab have Rockets Denver on Friday. Three
twenty point scores already this year Denver currently with Gordon
Murray and Jokic, that's going to be a great game.
And keep in mind, to Ben's point, Rockets really I'll
say three, but they're missing two key rotation players that
will be back this year, and Dorian Finney Smith and
of course Tarry East and I mean Fred is a
(31:49):
huge player for this team, but he's he could come back,
but unlikely to come back this year, and of course
you know next year's team could change. So it's just amazing.
The Rockets are ten and three at this point, missing
some of the so fantastic all around work for the Rockets.
Huge win, Ben, I appreciate you doing this. We will
be back Friday night. Thanks everybody,
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