October 22, 2025 • 30 mins
All-Star center Alperen Sengun was fantastic with a game-high 39 points, 11 rebounds, and 7 assists, but it wasn’t quite enough in Houston’s heartbreaking 125-124 road loss to the defending NBA champion Thunder. As a fitting opener to the 2025-26 regular season, Tuesday’s matchup between Western Conference heavyweights wasn’t decided until the final seconds of a second overtime in Oklahoma City.
Tuesday’s ClutchFans Live postgame show, featuring Ben DuBose and Dave Hardisty, breaks down all the good and bad — including the fantastic showing by Sengun and a worrisome 21 turnovers as a team. Late miscues by Kevin Durant were also a recurring theme.
Tuesday’s ClutchFans Live postgame show, featuring Ben DuBose and Dave Hardisty, breaks down all the good and bad — including the fantastic showing by Sengun and a worrisome 21 turnovers as a team. Late miscues by Kevin Durant were also a recurring theme.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome in. Let me tweet this out to everybody so
we can discuss this as we are talking right now.
After the Rockets one twenty five to one twenty four
double overtime loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder in the
twenty twenty five twenty six regular season debut, I'm here
(00:24):
with Ben Dubos. Ben, I gotta tell you, I feel
like I logged fifteen to twenty minutes myself in this game.
Like I my heart was up and down. It just
was like one of those games where it was back
and forth. It was thrilling drama. It was for me.
It was an advertiser for the NBA. But it's so
painful to come out on the losing end in this
(00:44):
game when there were so many opportunities. And there's a
lot of positive things to talk about, and we're gonna
definitely dive into those things, but just you know, I
gotta get your initial thoughts just on the loss and
just you know, overall with what they had there in
double overtime.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's frustrating because the game was right there to be
won multiple times and you just couldn't get over the
finish line. And first things first, I hope I mean
Toobson is okay. If it's any more than Cramps, that
would be a devastating loss, because I think he was
a dynamic player tonight. He looked clearly better than a
year ago in terms of generating his own offense off
(01:23):
the dribble, what he did late in regulation, and really
I think the second half and the fourth quarter in
particular had the most telling possessions. I don't think the
fourth I don't think overtime or double overtime was that
telling because both teams were so gassed. It was just
a matter of who would outlast the other. And unfortunately,
(01:43):
when both teams are gassed, it often comes down to
who can get the cheapis at.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
The free throw line.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
And we all know Sga is better than anybody at
that and so it's sort of fitting that that's how
it ended. But no, I mean, the one thing I'll
say it was a great performance. I mean, in the macro,
you take the defending Amps to double overtime at their place,
there's nothing to really complain about.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
In the big picture. You've looked like you belonged, And in.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Terms of some of the offensive issues, the turnovers, it's
one of the best defenses you'll play all year, probably
best ball pressure you'll play all year. But what was
most frustrating about it? You know, we spent the entire
offseason talking about Kevin Durant as the closer and this
game he had multiple opportunities to close it out, and
couldn't you know the this free throw in the last
ten seconds of regulation, the turnover early and overtime that
(02:29):
sort of put them behind the eight ball. I know
they bought back, but well, it wasn't just the turner.
It was also the missbox out against Cason Wallace which
led to the hut Holme gun three.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And there they lost the game with the that's what
you're gonna say at the.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Time, Yeah, the foul at the end of double overtime.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So in the final seconds of regulation and in both
of the overtimes, there were plays by Kadie that were
there to be made and weren't. And you know, my
suspicion is that a lot of it had to do
with it being mid October and the lads just aren't
quite there.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I thought that was true of a lot of guys.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You know, the one guy that was best for the
Rockets was clearly all per in Shangoon, and I think
that's because of EuroBasket. He was in by far the
best shape, and so when you're going up against a
defense that good and then the game turns from forty
eight minutes to fifty three and fifty three to fifty eight,
Shanoon was the one guy who was best positioned to
sort of play through it physically and mentally. I didn't
(03:22):
even mention the timeout that Katie called at the end
of the first overtime when the Rockets didn't have any
and just got bailed out by the fact that the
officials didn't see him and thus didn't grant it.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
It's one game out of eighty two. There's no reason
to be despondent.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
My guess is that you know, he's thirty seven years old,
it's the middle of October, he had off season hand surgery,
so there's a lot of reasons to think that, you know,
his body, his mind isn't all the way there yet.
But it is disappointing that, you know, you spend the
last three months talking about you've got the closer, and
you have at least three different opportunities to close out
(03:57):
that game, and then only do you not close it out.
You don't close it out in part because of you know,
lapses that he has or I don't know if the
mystery throws a lapse, but it was an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, and I think it's you know, it is one game.
We'll see how it goes. I think there was an
issue with the Rockets getting him the ball too. It's
a problem and you know, obviously not having the table setter,
you know, with with Fred out that that's going to
be an issue this year. And I think we can
definitely talk a lot about Katie. Katie in the first
half was much better than he was in the second half.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Well in the Sea and see.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I think some of what happened in the second half
is Katie wasn't moving quite as much away from the ball.
Like there's going to be a lot of talk, it
feels like the go to, at least in the national media,
every time anything goes wrong for the Rockets this season,
it's going to be, oh, they don't have Fred van Fleet,
which is sort of funny because they had a lot
of these same issues last year with Fred VanVleet. Now
I know they didn't have Kevin Durant last year, but
(04:51):
let's not act like this was just a lockdown team
that made all the plays late in close games. No,
it was ugly last year, and I think one of
the differences it is like people are going to point out,
and rightfully so. There was a graphic g I forget
if it was the first or second overtime, but it
said Katie had thirteen shots in the first three quarters
and he had like one shot in I think the
four the first quarter and maybe the first overtime, And
(05:13):
that looks bad. And I'm sure there's some things you
can do to get him the ball more proactively. But
I also think he just wasn't moving as much, like
some of the mistakes he had, you know, the mental
lapse with the timeout, physically missing the free throw when
last year he was ninety four percent in the clutch
eighty eight percent overall, the foul against SGA when he
(05:33):
was undisciplined and left his feet before he needed to. Like,
there's a lot of things that point to fatigue being
a factor in this game. We know he had the
hand surgery in the offseason, well, thumb surgery, but I
just you're right that they have to be able to
get him the ball more frequently and his lack of
shot attempts for an issue. I just think some of
(05:55):
it probably comes down to Katie's conditioning as well. And
it's game one of eighty two that you know, it's
not realistic to expect him to be in you know,
MVP level four him for eighty two games. But I
just don't think it's as simple as saying the rocket
stone of a point guard.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
No.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I think there were many possessions where they were trying
to and Kad just wasn't able to get to the spot.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And I want to Yeah, the KD issue is definitely
a big part of this game. I want to get to.
I think what was the most positive, most impressive thing,
and that was shng Goon. Shangoon finished with thirty nine points,
eleven boards, seven assists. But I still think the most
impressive thing about Shangoon is he's hitting threes. I think
you nailed the other thing that he's in the best
(06:34):
shape of his life, and I think that's been the case.
Now this is the third straight summer. I think where
he's gotten. You know, he didn't have a good first
summer and then last Now it's three in a row.
That he's really done well. He's in great condition, and
he's hitting threes. And even if he had made I
don't know, two for eight tonight, he made five for eight.
By the way, if he had made two for eight,
(06:55):
it's such a noticeable change in that he's comfortable shooting it.
And I think, you know, to me, I think that's
what's just jumping off the page. It is such a
significant leap. To me, there was a you know, I
put we had some clips. I didn't get all the
ones from overtime, obviously because we wanted to go live.
But you know, just looking at some of the things
(07:17):
that he did today, you know, shooting threes, and if
I play this clip here is he was just so
comfortable shooting it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And what but how far back he shot that three?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
He's not at the line, He's at twenty six, twenty
seven feet. There so many of these threes. Here's another one.
He's a good two steps behind the line.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And that's his fifth there, And this is what's interesting.
Watch Chet now have to go out and respect it.
That's what's fascinating. He bites on the fake and then
this is that beautiful move that Shangoon may where he
pulls up, gets draws the foul, hits the eighteen footer.
You know, I gotta tell you that is a such
a significant thing. It's one of the biggest problems I've
had with Shangun are just any center like Shangoon, is
(07:58):
that the shooting is an issue. And you know, even
last year I thought really anything outside of say five
eight feet was an issue for him. And he's comfortable
shooting freeze like that is such a significant deal. If
they do add a point guard, having Shangun as a
stretch big and being passable on defense is a game
(08:20):
changer in my opinion, just watching these defenders have to
go out there, and I will say, just to Men Thompson,
he was zerover seven from three tonight, but just the
fact that he's comfortable taking these. I know people will
laugh like he didn't make a single one, but it's
a significant change as well. Shangun didn't take more than
three three pointers in a game last year like at all.
(08:43):
He took eight, had attempted I believe five by halftime.
So anyway, I just if there's one huge positive that
I take from this game, and there were there were several.
To me, it's Shangun is showing legitimate range. He was
the best three point shooter on the team tonight by far.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Without Shangoon they were six of thirty three.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
And I that's one of the big positives for me
is that, you know, the Thunder people will chalk this
up to oh, this was a winnable game for Houston
because okay, see shot unsustainably poorly from three, Well, so
did the Rockets. The Thunder were thirteen to fifty two.
The Rockets were eleven of thirty nine, and they were
eleven of thirty nine. That difference is twenty eight percent
for the Rockets to twenty five percent for the Thunder,
(09:24):
so basically parody. And the Rockets shot twenty eight percent
with Shingoon making five of eight. Without Shangoon they were
six of thirty three, below twenty percent. Whatever you think
of their shooting, they are not that bad. I'm sorry,
they're not. And you know, Kevin was oh of four
and Reed Shefford was two of seven. These are good shooters.
(09:44):
Tarry Easton was one of four. Like, they can make
these shots. It's not all you know with the men. Thompson,
now the OH of seven, he did have the one
above the break three in the first half that was
eventually ruled to two, but it was definitely three point
range from anywhere else on the floor. I'm hopeful that
some of them Men's struggles were because of you know,
it's been reported that he was having issues with that
calf and the cramping from really they start of the
(10:05):
second half, so maybe that affected his you know, you
just didn't have enough in his legs to feel comfortable
with those shots. I hope that's the case. From the
eye test, it feels like a lot of them were short.
But the Rocket shooting poorly from three. It's not just oh,
the thunder left him and Thompson he's a bad shooter. No,
the Rockets had a lot of good shots that they
could have made and just didn't. And I guess that's
the one silver lining for me, is that, you know,
(10:27):
the Thunder, they missed some shots. You can't accurately say
that they'll shoot better than twenty five percent in most games.
I also think the Rockets will shoot better than twenty
eight percent in most games. Even with you know, Shingoon
doing what he did today, the overall performance could still
be better.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, and you know, you mentioned some of the One
thing I want to point out is the Rockets dominated
the glass, as they always do with that big line up.
They dominated the glass tonight, but the turnovers were significantly different,
especially the Rockets didn't force many in that second half.
I think the Rockets had twenty one today and the
Thunder had eleven. So the Thunder actually took more shots,
(11:02):
more field goal attempts, which is a rare thing against
the Rockets because the Rockets dominate the glass so much.
You know, I don't want to use the Fred excuse,
but if you do lower the turnovers, you know, it
could be a little bit of a different story. We're
missing Fred, they're missing Jalen Williams, you know, Potato Patada,
all that stuff. But it's notable that the turnovers were
(11:22):
an issue tonight, and not so much in the in
the first quarter, but definitely in the later half. You know,
Steven Adams played thirty six plus minutes tonight. I mean,
that's got to be a Rocket career high for him.
That's definitely notable. And on Shangun as well, almost forty
nine minutes. To your point about conditioning tonight, you know,
(11:43):
and we could go on and on about Shangun. He
played really well, hit some big shots, but I don't
think he's alone in like the improvement. I think jabari
Is has made huge leaps and I think, well, I
want it's a huge but definitely big progress and I
think a men as well. The unfortunate part, as you
pointed out for those who don't know a man in
(12:04):
maybe overtime. I think the first overtime period.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
They was a regulation that he left with the cramps.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
And okay, maybe it was into regulation and it was
funny though, Okay, see fans booed because he was on
the floor and they couldn't keep playing, which I was like, okay,
we have a little Seattle Mariners situation here. But he
didn't come back into the game and he obviously had cramped.
I thought his defense. I thought he had, first of all,
several plays in this game where you're like, wow, like
(12:30):
this guy has it's he's going to be really, really good.
And his defense on SGA to hold him. I think
to two of five shooting in the first half of
that was the big deal. Chet Holmgren had his way
in the first half was he hit his first seven shots,
and I thought he actually did a good job defending
Shangun because I thought they came out of the game
with Holmgren on Shannggun. I'm like, oh, Shangun's going to
(12:51):
eat him up. Didn't really happen. Actually, Chet did a
pretty good job on him, and of course on the
other end was really feasting. It was the second half
and the overtime periods where Shing Gun really took off.
But anyway, my point is A Men really did an
excellent job. I thought on SGA until you know, the
free throws down the stretch and they kind of hurt
the Rockets.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And I thought the two or three bullyball drives that
a Men had in the fourth quarter of that game
when it was winning time were some of the most
impressive plays I've seen from him.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Like he's had glimpses of that his first two years,
but it.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Was generally in non high leverage situations like you know,
late in the third, early and the fourth, late in
the first, early in the second quarters, going up against
second teamers and backups. To do that against a really
good defense with everything on the line. He drew a
comparison from the NBC crew to Penny Hardaway in one
of those spin moves like that's special, and so it
(13:44):
sucks that he didn't get an opportunity to close the
game because quite frankly, outside of all for in Chhangon,
he was clearly your best player tonight. He was the
guy that they were riding. I think in part because
you know, it's always a little bit tougher to have
a big man initiate your offense at the beer he
end be fourth quarter in overtime. We've talked about that,
you know, it's the theme throughout NBA history. So it
(14:05):
feels like that's why when it got to four three
two minutes in the fourth quarter, they were doing a
little bit more through amn and he was feasting. And
that's why it's a shame that you know that he
that he wasn't able to finish. Now, you know, I
will say, you know, kudos to Joshua Kogi, who I
thought played really well and you know, gave them a
chance even with the men when a men wasn't out there.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Seemed to leave at one point, I mean it seemed
like toy and crunch time was on the bench for
a Kogi.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Did you notice that, Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I mean Tory had the key block at the end
of overtime. Sorry, but but he he that was I
think that the first time he came in for some stretch.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, so Kogi kept them afloat, but obviously he's not
going to do offensively what what a men does. And
so that's the real shame is that not only is
it a painful loss, but you know, it really felt like, hey,
this is a game where you know, a men might
can get you to the finish line, because you know,
the Rockets had them at you know, certainly not commanding lead,
(15:01):
but at arm's length for a lot of the second half.
You know, the Rockets led by as many as ten
or twelve, and it felt like for most of the
fourth quarter they were up by you know, two four
six points. It's sort of oscillated, but they had a
little bit of an advantage, and it felt like, hey, like,
keep it close enough, have a little bit of a lead,
and then a men Thompson can make just a couple
of late plays and unfortunately with the calf, he didn't
get the chance to. And you know, I'll be clear,
(15:23):
he was trying to get back in the game. He
was at the scorer's table. If you notice, for a
couple of possessions, but there was sort of this fight,
and I'm sure the Rockets made the right call because
it's game.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
One of eighty two.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
There's not a huge gulf between you know, cramps and
a strain that can you know, linger for some time. Obviously,
a calf is tricky on so many levels, so they
were probably the right. They were probably right to air
on the side of caution, no matter how painful this is.
But yeah, that's one of the shames. Like it felt
like a men, especially in the fourth quarter with those
plays he was making one on one because honestly, like
(15:56):
that's the question. This is a guy who in his
first two years was all ready and all defensive first
team guys. So you're exactly right that his defense on
SGA was great, But to some extent we already expect
that what he was doing offensively as a creator, I
thought was pretty special. And one of many things that
things about this game is that he didn't get the
chance to close it.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, absolute, the Men finished with the eighteen points. He
was a minus eleven, which was notable, just you know,
sometimes the plus minus can tell lies in a single game.
But still that that stuck out. He was zero for seven,
but he was eight for ten inside the arc, which
was notable. Jabari was seven to fifteen for sixteen points,
five boards, hit a big shot in double overtime. They
(16:38):
went to Jabbari in the post one time down low
yep for a turnerund jumper. I was like, Wow, this
is real progress, Like we're doing different things now and
we're using some of these players in different ways. So
you know, I'll give all the credit to Shangun. Tonight
was awesome, you know, jo I thought Jabari played well.
I thought the men before he went out. Katie obviously
mixed bag, but you know, strong offensively early on. Look,
(17:01):
there's a lot of positive but I got to talk
about something negative because you know, this is somebody we've
been considering starting, and that was Reed Sheppard. Just the
on ball defense in the first half. And I apologize
for those who don't like to see some negative things.
But he got cooked like four or five times in
the first half. That like the kind of things that
(17:23):
when you get cooked like that, it's notable. Once He's
gonna be hunted a lot this year. Yeah, he's a
great shooter. He's going to give you a lot of offense,
and I think you got to play through it. As
much as you want to contend this year, and you
can contend this year with some tweaks, you're gonna have
to play through it. Because he is a really good
prospect and we know what he can do offensively. But
the on ball defense in these kind of big time
(17:45):
situations is a problem. He will be hunted. Yeah, it's
just a thing.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
And he shot just three of eleven two of seven
from three. I saw Nathan Fogg say tonight over on
Blue Skuy that you know, the defense at this point
in his career is going to be a liability. He
just tested to shoot his way through it, and he
tried to and the shots just didn't go in. And
so that's what's really frustrating about this one is that,
you know, he did do some good things. This wasn't
like year one where he got timid. He kept pushing
(18:13):
the issue, and I thought, especially in the two overtime periods,
he was the one guy that had a little bit
of juice. He just wasn't able to make the shots,
even at the free throw line. You know, we talked
about the Kevin miss in the last ten seconds of regulation.
But both Reed and Shongoon. And I'll give Shangoon a
pass because obviously he was like eight of nine, nine
to ten really good from the line overall. But the
Reed Shepherd miss in the first overtime which ended up tied,
(18:36):
I mean that was that was meaningful, and so you know,
you're not gonna draw any firm conclusions after one game
against a really good defense. But for me, the biggest
area that I miss Fred was that it felt like
and maybe this will change against a defense that's not
Oklahoma City. We have to keep saying that, but it
just felt like the fifth wheel. You were damned if
(18:58):
you do Dan today. If you don't with Stephen, you
know you're going to be just massive on the offensive
class and you're gonna have screen setting opportunities, but you're
going to be not that mobile and the spacing's going
to be a little bit clunky.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I don't care how smart you are.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
If you don't have to guard the guy beyond five
feet from the room, there are going to be some limitations.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
And you know, we talked at halftime. It was funny.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
We had this exchange during halftime about ye, you know,
is Shinoon going to be able to get going without
Fred than Fleet, and he did because he made threes,
which is something you wouldn't necessarily count on. Thankfully it
worked tonight. Hopefully it continues. We talked about that earlier.
But I think part of the problem is when the
floor is compressed with Stephen, you always give up something
a little bit. Now you can go to read, but
(19:46):
there's the defensive trade off, and he wasn't good enough
tonight offensively to overcome that, and you're, you know, a
little bit small on both ends, and Tari was just
bad period. Like I just thought, you know, Tari is
a guy who thrives off of playing in chaos, and
this was a fairly half court game. There wasn't a
ton of transition opportunities, and I just don't think he's
(20:08):
quite skilled enough at this point in time. And maybe
he can knock off the rust, because obviously he's not
played a ton the last couple of years and it's
early in the season. But it just felt like whenever
he shot at an angle, whenever he was off balance,
he wasn't able to finish. It just feels like with
Tari the skill wasn't there, and then he missed his shots.
As well, like when he had open threes, he wasn't
even close. So it just sort of felt like no
(20:29):
matter what you did, and you know, to Joshua Kogi's credit,
he did everything he possibly could. I see someone in
the comments saying DFS will put us over the top, fifth.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Starter, I hope, so like that it got a wait
for him to come back.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, because it felt like tonight, whatever you did, you
you know your Dan. If you do Dan, if you
don't Steven read Tari. They all have certain skills, but
they also have clear weaknesses, and especially against a really
good team like that, obviously your weaknesses are gonna get exposed.
And it just it just felt like there was a
big off from the main four to whoever that fifth
(21:02):
guy was.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, I just want to note I'm glad you mentioned
Shenghun's free throw shooting because I forgot to. I think
that's a very important thing too. It's not just the threes,
but the free throws. He wasn't, like, you know, amazing
inside the arc, and I can't remember at least maybe
he picked up in overtime, but like what he's doing
now with his shot is anyway so significant, and.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
The free throws would offer hope that the three point
shooting bump is more sustainable. Like there's a lot of guys,
especially in a small sample, they'll hit threes, but if
the free throw shooting is about the same, then it's
due to regress. If he's having a bump both in
threes and free throws, then that offers hope that it's
that it's a more sustainable improvement.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, you know, I in what you're kind of talking about.
As far as this, we'll see how this plays out
the balance between Adams read the balance between dfs when
he gets back. But you can see enough potential here.
I really look at four. You know, I think we
talked about Big three, but I'm including Jabari now in there.
I think that you've got four guys that I think,
you know, three of them are quite young, but you've
(22:03):
got Katie here. You've got a real opportunity. I think
that they're gonna, you know, again, something could change, but
I think they'll pursue a point guard down the line,
you know, like whether it's a Jeru or somebody like
that that can help settle them down. I think Beama
Thug made a good point tonight, and you know, it's
just an opinion. You may not necessarily agree with it.
But he said, I think you'll see other teams, you know,
(22:24):
pressing and putting on our ball pressure up at the
half court line, because that's becoming a new trend as well,
and we didn't see it as much tonight. And is
that going to be a weakness of the Rockets that
could be exposed down the line. And that's where I
just think maybe you might see something happen. The fread
injury is just so unfortunate. But still this is a
very talented team. Very We're gonna see I think quite
(22:44):
a few wins here coming up. Rockets are gonna play
the I believe the Pistons Friday is the next game. Yeah,
but I'm not even kidding. I literally was like short
of breath watching this game. I'm like, this is just
so intense the NBA delivers, Like That's how I felt tonight.
It was a great game. It sucks to come out
the wrong end of this, but it was intense, and
(23:05):
I really really thought it was brutal to lose on
the two free throws by SGA, Like you know that
the whole Yes, it was a foul. He baited KD.
KD jumped and he fouled him. Yeah, just to lose,
like just.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
A tough way to lose on that for the game
to be decided, I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
The only thing would have been losing on a timeout calling.
You know that you didn't actually have.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, right, you can't not call it.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
But yeah, in some ways, I think the you know,
the timeout that wasn't granted.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
You know, it's not just physical fatigue, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Mental as well, And it just felt like whoever was
going to win this game, and what people overlook with
these two teams and you know, this was a heavyweight fight,
as you alluded to, and this wasn't any normal forty
eight minutes. This was a really hard fought forty eight minutes.
So in the middle of October. There were a lot
of guys whose tanks were on empty late in the
(23:56):
fourth quarter.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And so that's why I think, you.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Know, frustrating as it is, it does make sense when
you think about it that, you know, the two overtimes
were short of decided by you know, mental and physical
lapses late. It's just it's mid October, and especially if
you're thirty seven years old, I mean, not to be
making excuses, but it's just the reality. It's you know,
it's an eighty two game grind, and you know Kevin
can and I think he will be better than And
(24:18):
that's not to say that the game is his fault,
not at all. Like he was still very good overall.
I thought in the first half he was incredible. He
was a big part of how the Rockets were were
playing with a lead. So all in all, I think
they're going to be fine, Like there's more good than
bad out of this performance. Just it stings because this
would have been a big time statement when that you
could plant your flag all in the road against the
fending champs. It was right there and you couldn't get
(24:40):
over the finish line. And there's multiple reasons for that.
It's just, you know, a little bit of a bummer.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
And I think anybody who watched the game, you're right,
people who just checked the box ground paying attentional thinking, well, okay,
Rockets lost, Okay, see one, that's what we expected. But
if you did watch the game, you know, the Rockets
look like they've got some real potential here. So I
think that's that's great. I think the best joke I
heard tonight was you know, third quarter, somebody saying Tarisan
should have assigned his extension, you know, because he just
(25:05):
didn't really play very well. And I'm hoping this is
just a fluke. Just like we did in the first
preseason game. We take one game and we just extrapolated
it out and say, okay, you know this what's going
to be. Things are going to change from here to there.
But you can definitely see the trends. The rebounding is
there if they can control the turnovers. The defense is there.
I do think Okay, see missed a lot of open threes.
(25:28):
You know, you addressed this earlier. Rockets as well did
miss threes, so that could be an issue, but the
rebounding dominance is still there. The defense is still strong.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, that was encouraging. You know, we talked in the
preseason about would the identity change. No, when it mattered
and they had to, you know, grind it out, they
were able to defensively. I thought that was encouraging that
even against obviously a very strong offensive team. I know
the Thunder didn't have Jalen Williams, but you know, Sga
and Chet shooting out of his mind. There's plenty of firepower,
and so that was one of the positives as well.
(25:59):
Is that when it mattered, did you know, I don't
want to say they were exactly what they were a
year ago, but.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
They were still pretty good defensively, much better than the
pre season.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah. Absolutely, I'm trying to think of anything else. Like
I said that, you know, we didn't necessarily touched on
I really thought of Men shined in the first quarter.
It's unfortunately they lost him when they did. As you
pointed out, hopefully he's fine and good to go. He's
gonna be playing his brother on Friday, I believe, and.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, so yeah, and no, I just think what really
stood out a Men's absence and the two overtimes and
down the stretch of that game. You know, I talked
about missing a fifth starter, and hopefully Dorianfonny Smith can
fill that void. You know, that's where I think the Rockets,
as I said, miss Fred the most. It's not just
his point guard skills, it's that whatever your other options are,
(26:43):
you go big, you go small, you go virtutil there
are you know, there are pluses and minuses to all
those configurations, and a team like okay, see, well we'll
find the minuses and and hunt those and so hopefully
it looks better with dfs. But without a men, you're
basically just three qualified starters and Katie, Shangoon and Jabbari
(27:04):
and so that's a lot like That's something we also
need to keep in mind as we sort of contextualize
this game, is that beyond the fatigue, which I do
think played a role. Look, the Rockets had three fifths
of the starting line up they would like to have
in the two overtimes at this game, and that's tough.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, that was the unfortunate part two in overtime where
you know, obviously you balanced it with different lineups, but
they had to go to Read because they lost a
point guard. They needed somebody with some ball handling ability
and the and the defense. You know, everybody had tired
legs by that point, as you pointed out earlier, But
you know, there there were a couple of defensive issues
there with Reid that you just, you know, you kind
of have to live with. He is a really good prospect.
(27:44):
I'm not knocking him. It's just he's just he's not
cooked yet, he's not maked, and it's and he's being
thrown out there.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Well, he was cooked tonight, but for the wrong Well.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
That's true, that's a good point. But you know, he's
just he he basically needed that extra year I think
for Fred to be here and him to still get
his minutes and play. But now he's thrust Yeah, he's
thrust into the situation with you know, shan gun A
men Jabari having taken leaps. At least it appears that way,
they've all progressed significantly and Katie who's thirty seven in
(28:14):
Hall of Famer, two time champion, you know, previous MVP winner,
they're ready to win now. So there's there is that gap,
which is a little bit unfortunate. But he's thrown into
the fire man. He's going to be put into situations
where we're just going to have to live. As you
pointed out, you know, with the defense.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And I'm sure if an OKAC fan was listening to this,
they point out that, hey, not only did they not
have Jalen Williams, but they also lost Holme, Grin and
Hartenstein into two overtimes for fouling out. Well, what I
would say is that for the way this Rockets team
is built without Fred, and then losing him in Thompson. Really,
the Rockets had trouble exploiting the lack of size near
(28:51):
the rim, because as long as the Thunder had their
guys like Crusoe and Casey and Wallace and Dort that
could you know, exert the ball pressure on the perimeter
or you know, play KD really hard away from the ball,
then it was tough for the Rockets to get near
the rim to where their theoretical size advantage could convert
over over you know, an OKAC team that didn't have
(29:12):
shut and Hardy like. That was the issue for me
is that you know, yeah, the Rockets theoretically got some
breaks when they fouled off those big men, but without
the point guard, it's tougher to take advantage of those.
And you know, it's not beyond the Thunder being really good,
which is, you know, something we have to keep mentioning.
The Rockets also didn't have a men Thompson, and so
I'm hoping that, you know, this is a game that
(29:32):
if the Rockets get more opportunities in the near future,
that if the men's able to stay out there, the
late game execution looks a lot different.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, absolutely, and unfortunate outcome, Ben, I appreciate you doing this,
you know. So it's basically Rockets fall short by one
point four in double overtime. They'll play again on Friday
against the Pistons. I think the Rockets look really strong.
There's a lot of positive things, a lot of promising things.
Ben and I will be back tomorrow. We're going to
(29:59):
do a show with Rockets employee who shall still remain nameless.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I believe no question sare friends and the business operations.
We can say it now, Okay, awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
We're gonna talk all things about the Rockets, you know,
things going on behind the scenes and things of that nature.
So it's gonna be fun. We're looking forward to that
and so we will see you guys tomorrow. Appreciate everybody.
We've been overwhelming sports tonight. Everybody's showing up. It was
a hell of a game. I'm sure you guys all
lived it just.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Like we did and died.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, exactly. So thank you all for hanging out. Make
sure to subscribe if you don't if you haven't already,
to get notifications when we go live, and we will
see you guys tomorrow. Thanks everybody,
Welcome in. Let me tweet this out to everybody so
we can discuss this as we are talking right now.
After the Rockets one twenty five to one twenty four
double overtime loss to the Oklahoma City Thunder in the
twenty twenty five twenty six regular season debut, I'm here
(00:24):
with Ben Dubos. Ben, I gotta tell you, I feel
like I logged fifteen to twenty minutes myself in this game.
Like I my heart was up and down. It just
was like one of those games where it was back
and forth. It was thrilling drama. It was for me.
It was an advertiser for the NBA. But it's so
painful to come out on the losing end in this
(00:44):
game when there were so many opportunities. And there's a
lot of positive things to talk about, and we're gonna
definitely dive into those things, but just you know, I
gotta get your initial thoughts just on the loss and
just you know, overall with what they had there in
double overtime.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's frustrating because the game was right there to be
won multiple times and you just couldn't get over the
finish line. And first things first, I hope I mean
Toobson is okay. If it's any more than Cramps, that
would be a devastating loss, because I think he was
a dynamic player tonight. He looked clearly better than a
year ago in terms of generating his own offense off
(01:23):
the dribble, what he did late in regulation, and really
I think the second half and the fourth quarter in
particular had the most telling possessions. I don't think the
fourth I don't think overtime or double overtime was that
telling because both teams were so gassed. It was just
a matter of who would outlast the other. And unfortunately,
(01:43):
when both teams are gassed, it often comes down to
who can get the cheapis at.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
The free throw line.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
And we all know Sga is better than anybody at
that and so it's sort of fitting that that's how
it ended. But no, I mean, the one thing I'll
say it was a great performance. I mean, in the macro,
you take the defending Amps to double overtime at their place,
there's nothing to really complain about.
Speaker 3 (02:03):
In the big picture. You've looked like you belonged, And in.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
Terms of some of the offensive issues, the turnovers, it's
one of the best defenses you'll play all year, probably
best ball pressure you'll play all year. But what was
most frustrating about it? You know, we spent the entire
offseason talking about Kevin Durant as the closer and this
game he had multiple opportunities to close it out, and
couldn't you know the this free throw in the last
ten seconds of regulation, the turnover early and overtime that
(02:29):
sort of put them behind the eight ball. I know
they bought back, but well, it wasn't just the turner.
It was also the missbox out against Cason Wallace which
led to the hut Holme gun three.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
And there they lost the game with the that's what
you're gonna say at the.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Time, Yeah, the foul at the end of double overtime.
Speaker 2 (02:44):
So in the final seconds of regulation and in both
of the overtimes, there were plays by Kadie that were
there to be made and weren't. And you know, my
suspicion is that a lot of it had to do
with it being mid October and the lads just aren't
quite there.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
I thought that was true of a lot of guys.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
You know, the one guy that was best for the
Rockets was clearly all per in Shangoon, and I think
that's because of EuroBasket. He was in by far the
best shape, and so when you're going up against a
defense that good and then the game turns from forty
eight minutes to fifty three and fifty three to fifty eight,
Shanoon was the one guy who was best positioned to
sort of play through it physically and mentally. I didn't
(03:22):
even mention the timeout that Katie called at the end
of the first overtime when the Rockets didn't have any
and just got bailed out by the fact that the
officials didn't see him and thus didn't grant it.
Speaker 3 (03:33):
It's one game out of eighty two. There's no reason
to be despondent.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
My guess is that you know, he's thirty seven years old,
it's the middle of October, he had off season hand surgery,
so there's a lot of reasons to think that, you know,
his body, his mind isn't all the way there yet.
But it is disappointing that, you know, you spend the
last three months talking about you've got the closer, and
you have at least three different opportunities to close out
(03:57):
that game, and then only do you not close it out.
You don't close it out in part because of you know,
lapses that he has or I don't know if the
mystery throws a lapse, but it was an opportunity.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
Yeah, and I think it's you know, it is one game.
We'll see how it goes. I think there was an
issue with the Rockets getting him the ball too. It's
a problem and you know, obviously not having the table setter,
you know, with with Fred out that that's going to
be an issue this year. And I think we can
definitely talk a lot about Katie. Katie in the first
half was much better than he was in the second half.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
Well in the Sea and see.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
I think some of what happened in the second half
is Katie wasn't moving quite as much away from the ball.
Like there's going to be a lot of talk, it
feels like the go to, at least in the national media,
every time anything goes wrong for the Rockets this season,
it's going to be, oh, they don't have Fred van Fleet,
which is sort of funny because they had a lot
of these same issues last year with Fred VanVleet. Now
I know they didn't have Kevin Durant last year, but
(04:51):
let's not act like this was just a lockdown team
that made all the plays late in close games. No,
it was ugly last year, and I think one of
the differences it is like people are going to point out,
and rightfully so. There was a graphic g I forget
if it was the first or second overtime, but it
said Katie had thirteen shots in the first three quarters
and he had like one shot in I think the
four the first quarter and maybe the first overtime, And
(05:13):
that looks bad. And I'm sure there's some things you
can do to get him the ball more proactively. But
I also think he just wasn't moving as much, like
some of the mistakes he had, you know, the mental
lapse with the timeout, physically missing the free throw when
last year he was ninety four percent in the clutch
eighty eight percent overall, the foul against SGA when he
(05:33):
was undisciplined and left his feet before he needed to. Like,
there's a lot of things that point to fatigue being
a factor in this game. We know he had the
hand surgery in the offseason, well, thumb surgery, but I
just you're right that they have to be able to
get him the ball more frequently and his lack of
shot attempts for an issue. I just think some of
(05:55):
it probably comes down to Katie's conditioning as well. And
it's game one of eighty two that you know, it's
not realistic to expect him to be in you know,
MVP level four him for eighty two games. But I
just don't think it's as simple as saying the rocket
stone of a point guard.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
No.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
I think there were many possessions where they were trying
to and Kad just wasn't able to get to the spot.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
And I want to Yeah, the KD issue is definitely
a big part of this game. I want to get to.
I think what was the most positive, most impressive thing,
and that was shng Goon. Shangoon finished with thirty nine points,
eleven boards, seven assists. But I still think the most
impressive thing about Shangoon is he's hitting threes. I think
you nailed the other thing that he's in the best
(06:34):
shape of his life, and I think that's been the case.
Now this is the third straight summer. I think where
he's gotten. You know, he didn't have a good first
summer and then last Now it's three in a row.
That he's really done well. He's in great condition, and
he's hitting threes. And even if he had made I
don't know, two for eight tonight, he made five for eight.
By the way, if he had made two for eight,
(06:55):
it's such a noticeable change in that he's comfortable shooting it.
And I think, you know, to me, I think that's
what's just jumping off the page. It is such a
significant leap. To me, there was a you know, I
put we had some clips. I didn't get all the
ones from overtime, obviously because we wanted to go live.
But you know, just looking at some of the things
(07:17):
that he did today, you know, shooting threes, and if
I play this clip here is he was just so
comfortable shooting it.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
And what but how far back he shot that three?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
He's not at the line, He's at twenty six, twenty
seven feet. There so many of these threes. Here's another one.
He's a good two steps behind the line.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
And that's his fifth there, And this is what's interesting.
Watch Chet now have to go out and respect it.
That's what's fascinating. He bites on the fake and then
this is that beautiful move that Shangoon may where he
pulls up, gets draws the foul, hits the eighteen footer.
You know, I gotta tell you that is a such
a significant thing. It's one of the biggest problems I've
had with Shangun are just any center like Shangoon, is
(07:58):
that the shooting is an issue. And you know, even
last year I thought really anything outside of say five
eight feet was an issue for him. And he's comfortable
shooting freeze like that is such a significant deal. If
they do add a point guard, having Shangun as a
stretch big and being passable on defense is a game
(08:20):
changer in my opinion, just watching these defenders have to
go out there, and I will say, just to Men Thompson,
he was zerover seven from three tonight, but just the
fact that he's comfortable taking these. I know people will
laugh like he didn't make a single one, but it's
a significant change as well. Shangun didn't take more than
three three pointers in a game last year like at all.
(08:43):
He took eight, had attempted I believe five by halftime.
So anyway, I just if there's one huge positive that
I take from this game, and there were there were several.
To me, it's Shangun is showing legitimate range. He was
the best three point shooter on the team tonight by far.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Without Shangoon they were six of thirty three.
Speaker 2 (09:01):
And I that's one of the big positives for me
is that, you know, the Thunder people will chalk this
up to oh, this was a winnable game for Houston
because okay, see shot unsustainably poorly from three, Well, so
did the Rockets. The Thunder were thirteen to fifty two.
The Rockets were eleven of thirty nine, and they were
eleven of thirty nine. That difference is twenty eight percent
for the Rockets to twenty five percent for the Thunder,
(09:24):
so basically parody. And the Rockets shot twenty eight percent
with Shingoon making five of eight. Without Shangoon they were
six of thirty three, below twenty percent. Whatever you think
of their shooting, they are not that bad. I'm sorry,
they're not. And you know, Kevin was oh of four
and Reed Shefford was two of seven. These are good shooters.
(09:44):
Tarry Easton was one of four. Like, they can make
these shots. It's not all you know with the men. Thompson,
now the OH of seven, he did have the one
above the break three in the first half that was
eventually ruled to two, but it was definitely three point
range from anywhere else on the floor. I'm hopeful that
some of them Men's struggles were because of you know,
it's been reported that he was having issues with that
calf and the cramping from really they start of the
(10:05):
second half, so maybe that affected his you know, you
just didn't have enough in his legs to feel comfortable
with those shots. I hope that's the case. From the
eye test, it feels like a lot of them were short.
But the Rocket shooting poorly from three. It's not just oh,
the thunder left him and Thompson he's a bad shooter. No,
the Rockets had a lot of good shots that they
could have made and just didn't. And I guess that's
the one silver lining for me, is that, you know,
(10:27):
the Thunder, they missed some shots. You can't accurately say
that they'll shoot better than twenty five percent in most games.
I also think the Rockets will shoot better than twenty
eight percent in most games. Even with you know, Shingoon
doing what he did today, the overall performance could still
be better.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, and you know, you mentioned some of the One
thing I want to point out is the Rockets dominated
the glass, as they always do with that big line up.
They dominated the glass tonight, but the turnovers were significantly different,
especially the Rockets didn't force many in that second half.
I think the Rockets had twenty one today and the
Thunder had eleven. So the Thunder actually took more shots,
(11:02):
more field goal attempts, which is a rare thing against
the Rockets because the Rockets dominate the glass so much.
You know, I don't want to use the Fred excuse,
but if you do lower the turnovers, you know, it
could be a little bit of a different story. We're
missing Fred, they're missing Jalen Williams, you know, Potato Patada,
all that stuff. But it's notable that the turnovers were
(11:22):
an issue tonight, and not so much in the in
the first quarter, but definitely in the later half. You know,
Steven Adams played thirty six plus minutes tonight. I mean,
that's got to be a Rocket career high for him.
That's definitely notable. And on Shangun as well, almost forty
nine minutes. To your point about conditioning tonight, you know,
(11:43):
and we could go on and on about Shangun. He
played really well, hit some big shots, but I don't
think he's alone in like the improvement. I think jabari
Is has made huge leaps and I think, well, I
want it's a huge but definitely big progress and I
think a men as well. The unfortunate part, as you
pointed out for those who don't know a man in
(12:04):
maybe overtime. I think the first overtime period.
Speaker 3 (12:06):
They was a regulation that he left with the cramps.
Speaker 1 (12:10):
And okay, maybe it was into regulation and it was
funny though, Okay, see fans booed because he was on
the floor and they couldn't keep playing, which I was like, okay,
we have a little Seattle Mariners situation here. But he
didn't come back into the game and he obviously had cramped.
I thought his defense. I thought he had, first of all,
several plays in this game where you're like, wow, like
(12:30):
this guy has it's he's going to be really, really good.
And his defense on SGA to hold him. I think
to two of five shooting in the first half of
that was the big deal. Chet Holmgren had his way
in the first half was he hit his first seven shots,
and I thought he actually did a good job defending
Shangun because I thought they came out of the game
with Holmgren on Shannggun. I'm like, oh, Shangun's going to
(12:51):
eat him up. Didn't really happen. Actually, Chet did a
pretty good job on him, and of course on the
other end was really feasting. It was the second half
and the overtime periods where Shing Gun really took off.
But anyway, my point is A Men really did an
excellent job. I thought on SGA until you know, the
free throws down the stretch and they kind of hurt
the Rockets.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
And I thought the two or three bullyball drives that
a Men had in the fourth quarter of that game
when it was winning time were some of the most
impressive plays I've seen from him.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
Like he's had glimpses of that his first two years,
but it.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Was generally in non high leverage situations like you know,
late in the third, early and the fourth, late in
the first, early in the second quarters, going up against
second teamers and backups. To do that against a really
good defense with everything on the line. He drew a
comparison from the NBC crew to Penny Hardaway in one
of those spin moves like that's special, and so it
(13:44):
sucks that he didn't get an opportunity to close the
game because quite frankly, outside of all for in Chhangon,
he was clearly your best player tonight. He was the
guy that they were riding. I think in part because
you know, it's always a little bit tougher to have
a big man initiate your offense at the beer he
end be fourth quarter in overtime. We've talked about that,
you know, it's the theme throughout NBA history. So it
(14:05):
feels like that's why when it got to four three
two minutes in the fourth quarter, they were doing a
little bit more through amn and he was feasting. And
that's why it's a shame that you know that he
that he wasn't able to finish. Now, you know, I
will say, you know, kudos to Joshua Kogi, who I
thought played really well and you know, gave them a
chance even with the men when a men wasn't out there.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Seemed to leave at one point, I mean it seemed
like toy and crunch time was on the bench for
a Kogi.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
Did you notice that, Yeah, I did.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I mean Tory had the key block at the end
of overtime. Sorry, but but he he that was I
think that the first time he came in for some stretch.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
Sorry.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
Yeah, so Kogi kept them afloat, but obviously he's not
going to do offensively what what a men does. And
so that's the real shame is that not only is
it a painful loss, but you know, it really felt like, hey,
this is a game where you know, a men might
can get you to the finish line, because you know,
the Rockets had them at you know, certainly not commanding lead,
(15:01):
but at arm's length for a lot of the second half.
You know, the Rockets led by as many as ten
or twelve, and it felt like for most of the
fourth quarter they were up by you know, two four
six points. It's sort of oscillated, but they had a
little bit of an advantage, and it felt like, hey, like,
keep it close enough, have a little bit of a lead,
and then a men Thompson can make just a couple
of late plays and unfortunately with the calf, he didn't
get the chance to. And you know, I'll be clear,
(15:23):
he was trying to get back in the game. He
was at the scorer's table. If you notice, for a
couple of possessions, but there was sort of this fight,
and I'm sure the Rockets made the right call because
it's game.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
One of eighty two.
Speaker 2 (15:34):
There's not a huge gulf between you know, cramps and
a strain that can you know, linger for some time. Obviously,
a calf is tricky on so many levels, so they
were probably the right. They were probably right to air
on the side of caution, no matter how painful this is.
But yeah, that's one of the shames. Like it felt
like a men, especially in the fourth quarter with those
plays he was making one on one because honestly, like
(15:56):
that's the question. This is a guy who in his
first two years was all ready and all defensive first
team guys. So you're exactly right that his defense on
SGA was great, But to some extent we already expect
that what he was doing offensively as a creator, I
thought was pretty special. And one of many things that
things about this game is that he didn't get the
chance to close it.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
Yeah, absolute, the Men finished with the eighteen points. He
was a minus eleven, which was notable, just you know,
sometimes the plus minus can tell lies in a single game.
But still that that stuck out. He was zero for seven,
but he was eight for ten inside the arc, which
was notable. Jabari was seven to fifteen for sixteen points,
five boards, hit a big shot in double overtime. They
(16:38):
went to Jabbari in the post one time down low
yep for a turnerund jumper. I was like, Wow, this
is real progress, Like we're doing different things now and
we're using some of these players in different ways. So
you know, I'll give all the credit to Shangun. Tonight
was awesome, you know, jo I thought Jabari played well.
I thought the men before he went out. Katie obviously
mixed bag, but you know, strong offensively early on. Look,
(17:01):
there's a lot of positive but I got to talk
about something negative because you know, this is somebody we've
been considering starting, and that was Reed Sheppard. Just the
on ball defense in the first half. And I apologize
for those who don't like to see some negative things.
But he got cooked like four or five times in
the first half. That like the kind of things that
(17:23):
when you get cooked like that, it's notable. Once He's
gonna be hunted a lot this year. Yeah, he's a
great shooter. He's going to give you a lot of offense,
and I think you got to play through it. As
much as you want to contend this year, and you
can contend this year with some tweaks, you're gonna have
to play through it. Because he is a really good
prospect and we know what he can do offensively. But
the on ball defense in these kind of big time
(17:45):
situations is a problem. He will be hunted. Yeah, it's
just a thing.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
And he shot just three of eleven two of seven
from three. I saw Nathan Fogg say tonight over on
Blue Skuy that you know, the defense at this point
in his career is going to be a liability. He
just tested to shoot his way through it, and he
tried to and the shots just didn't go in. And
so that's what's really frustrating about this one is that,
you know, he did do some good things. This wasn't
like year one where he got timid. He kept pushing
(18:13):
the issue, and I thought, especially in the two overtime periods,
he was the one guy that had a little bit
of juice. He just wasn't able to make the shots,
even at the free throw line. You know, we talked
about the Kevin miss in the last ten seconds of regulation.
But both Reed and Shongoon. And I'll give Shangoon a
pass because obviously he was like eight of nine, nine
to ten really good from the line overall. But the
Reed Shepherd miss in the first overtime which ended up tied,
(18:36):
I mean that was that was meaningful, and so you know,
you're not gonna draw any firm conclusions after one game
against a really good defense. But for me, the biggest
area that I miss Fred was that it felt like
and maybe this will change against a defense that's not
Oklahoma City. We have to keep saying that, but it
just felt like the fifth wheel. You were damned if
(18:58):
you do Dan today. If you don't with Stephen, you
know you're going to be just massive on the offensive
class and you're gonna have screen setting opportunities, but you're
going to be not that mobile and the spacing's going
to be a little bit clunky.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
I don't care how smart you are.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
If you don't have to guard the guy beyond five
feet from the room, there are going to be some limitations.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
And you know, we talked at halftime. It was funny.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
We had this exchange during halftime about ye, you know,
is Shinoon going to be able to get going without
Fred than Fleet, and he did because he made threes,
which is something you wouldn't necessarily count on. Thankfully it
worked tonight. Hopefully it continues. We talked about that earlier.
But I think part of the problem is when the
floor is compressed with Stephen, you always give up something
a little bit. Now you can go to read, but
(19:46):
there's the defensive trade off, and he wasn't good enough
tonight offensively to overcome that, and you're, you know, a
little bit small on both ends, and Tari was just
bad period. Like I just thought, you know, Tari is
a guy who thrives off of playing in chaos, and
this was a fairly half court game. There wasn't a
ton of transition opportunities, and I just don't think he's
(20:08):
quite skilled enough at this point in time. And maybe
he can knock off the rust, because obviously he's not
played a ton the last couple of years and it's
early in the season. But it just felt like whenever
he shot at an angle, whenever he was off balance,
he wasn't able to finish. It just feels like with
Tari the skill wasn't there, and then he missed his shots.
As well, like when he had open threes, he wasn't
even close. So it just sort of felt like no
(20:29):
matter what you did, and you know, to Joshua Kogi's credit,
he did everything he possibly could. I see someone in
the comments saying DFS will put us over the top, fifth.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Starter, I hope, so like that it got a wait
for him to come back.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Yeah, because it felt like tonight, whatever you did, you
you know your Dan. If you do Dan, if you
don't Steven read Tari. They all have certain skills, but
they also have clear weaknesses, and especially against a really
good team like that, obviously your weaknesses are gonna get exposed.
And it just it just felt like there was a
big off from the main four to whoever that fifth
(21:02):
guy was.
Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, I just want to note I'm glad you mentioned
Shenghun's free throw shooting because I forgot to. I think
that's a very important thing too. It's not just the threes,
but the free throws. He wasn't, like, you know, amazing
inside the arc, and I can't remember at least maybe
he picked up in overtime, but like what he's doing
now with his shot is anyway so significant, and.
Speaker 2 (21:23):
The free throws would offer hope that the three point
shooting bump is more sustainable. Like there's a lot of guys,
especially in a small sample, they'll hit threes, but if
the free throw shooting is about the same, then it's
due to regress. If he's having a bump both in
threes and free throws, then that offers hope that it's
that it's a more sustainable improvement.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, you know, I in what you're kind of talking about.
As far as this, we'll see how this plays out
the balance between Adams read the balance between dfs when
he gets back. But you can see enough potential here.
I really look at four. You know, I think we
talked about Big three, but I'm including Jabari now in there.
I think that you've got four guys that I think,
you know, three of them are quite young, but you've
(22:03):
got Katie here. You've got a real opportunity. I think
that they're gonna, you know, again, something could change, but
I think they'll pursue a point guard down the line,
you know, like whether it's a Jeru or somebody like
that that can help settle them down. I think Beama
Thug made a good point tonight, and you know, it's
just an opinion. You may not necessarily agree with it.
But he said, I think you'll see other teams, you know,
(22:24):
pressing and putting on our ball pressure up at the
half court line, because that's becoming a new trend as well,
and we didn't see it as much tonight. And is
that going to be a weakness of the Rockets that
could be exposed down the line. And that's where I
just think maybe you might see something happen. The fread
injury is just so unfortunate. But still this is a
very talented team. Very We're gonna see I think quite
(22:44):
a few wins here coming up. Rockets are gonna play
the I believe the Pistons Friday is the next game. Yeah,
but I'm not even kidding. I literally was like short
of breath watching this game. I'm like, this is just
so intense the NBA delivers, Like That's how I felt tonight.
It was a great game. It sucks to come out
the wrong end of this, but it was intense, and
(23:05):
I really really thought it was brutal to lose on
the two free throws by SGA, Like you know that
the whole Yes, it was a foul. He baited KD.
KD jumped and he fouled him. Yeah, just to lose,
like just.
Speaker 2 (23:17):
A tough way to lose on that for the game
to be decided, I mean, yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
The only thing would have been losing on a timeout calling.
You know that you didn't actually have.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Yeah, right, you can't not call it.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
But yeah, in some ways, I think the you know,
the timeout that wasn't granted.
Speaker 3 (23:32):
You know, it's not just physical fatigue, it's.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
Mental as well, And it just felt like whoever was
going to win this game, and what people overlook with
these two teams and you know, this was a heavyweight fight,
as you alluded to, and this wasn't any normal forty
eight minutes. This was a really hard fought forty eight minutes.
So in the middle of October. There were a lot
of guys whose tanks were on empty late in the
(23:56):
fourth quarter.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
And so that's why I think, you.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Know, frustrating as it is, it does make sense when
you think about it that, you know, the two overtimes
were short of decided by you know, mental and physical
lapses late. It's just it's mid October, and especially if
you're thirty seven years old, I mean, not to be
making excuses, but it's just the reality. It's you know,
it's an eighty two game grind, and you know Kevin
can and I think he will be better than And
(24:18):
that's not to say that the game is his fault,
not at all. Like he was still very good overall.
I thought in the first half he was incredible. He
was a big part of how the Rockets were were
playing with a lead. So all in all, I think
they're going to be fine, Like there's more good than
bad out of this performance. Just it stings because this
would have been a big time statement when that you
could plant your flag all in the road against the
fending champs. It was right there and you couldn't get
(24:40):
over the finish line. And there's multiple reasons for that.
It's just, you know, a little bit of a bummer.
Speaker 1 (24:45):
And I think anybody who watched the game, you're right,
people who just checked the box ground paying attentional thinking, well, okay,
Rockets lost, Okay, see one, that's what we expected. But
if you did watch the game, you know, the Rockets
look like they've got some real potential here. So I
think that's that's great. I think the best joke I
heard tonight was you know, third quarter, somebody saying Tarisan
should have assigned his extension, you know, because he just
(25:05):
didn't really play very well. And I'm hoping this is
just a fluke. Just like we did in the first
preseason game. We take one game and we just extrapolated
it out and say, okay, you know this what's going
to be. Things are going to change from here to there.
But you can definitely see the trends. The rebounding is
there if they can control the turnovers. The defense is there.
I do think Okay, see missed a lot of open threes.
(25:28):
You know, you addressed this earlier. Rockets as well did
miss threes, so that could be an issue, but the
rebounding dominance is still there. The defense is still strong.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
You know.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
Yeah, that was encouraging. You know, we talked in the
preseason about would the identity change. No, when it mattered
and they had to, you know, grind it out, they
were able to defensively. I thought that was encouraging that
even against obviously a very strong offensive team. I know
the Thunder didn't have Jalen Williams, but you know, Sga
and Chet shooting out of his mind. There's plenty of firepower,
and so that was one of the positives as well.
(25:59):
Is that when it mattered, did you know, I don't
want to say they were exactly what they were a
year ago, but.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
They were still pretty good defensively, much better than the
pre season.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah. Absolutely, I'm trying to think of anything else. Like
I said that, you know, we didn't necessarily touched on
I really thought of Men shined in the first quarter.
It's unfortunately they lost him when they did. As you
pointed out, hopefully he's fine and good to go. He's
gonna be playing his brother on Friday, I believe, and.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
Yeah, so yeah, and no, I just think what really
stood out a Men's absence and the two overtimes and
down the stretch of that game. You know, I talked
about missing a fifth starter, and hopefully Dorianfonny Smith can
fill that void. You know, that's where I think the Rockets,
as I said, miss Fred the most. It's not just
his point guard skills, it's that whatever your other options are,
(26:43):
you go big, you go small, you go virtutil there
are you know, there are pluses and minuses to all
those configurations, and a team like okay, see, well we'll
find the minuses and and hunt those and so hopefully
it looks better with dfs. But without a men, you're
basically just three qualified starters and Katie, Shangoon and Jabbari
(27:04):
and so that's a lot like That's something we also
need to keep in mind as we sort of contextualize
this game, is that beyond the fatigue, which I do
think played a role. Look, the Rockets had three fifths
of the starting line up they would like to have
in the two overtimes at this game, and that's tough.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Yeah, that was the unfortunate part two in overtime where
you know, obviously you balanced it with different lineups, but
they had to go to Read because they lost a
point guard. They needed somebody with some ball handling ability
and the and the defense. You know, everybody had tired
legs by that point, as you pointed out earlier, But
you know, there there were a couple of defensive issues
there with Reid that you just, you know, you kind
of have to live with. He is a really good prospect.
(27:44):
I'm not knocking him. It's just he's just he's not
cooked yet, he's not maked, and it's and he's being
thrown out there.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
Well, he was cooked tonight, but for the wrong Well.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
That's true, that's a good point. But you know, he's
just he he basically needed that extra year I think
for Fred to be here and him to still get
his minutes and play. But now he's thrust Yeah, he's
thrust into the situation with you know, shan gun A
men Jabari having taken leaps. At least it appears that way,
they've all progressed significantly and Katie who's thirty seven in
(28:14):
Hall of Famer, two time champion, you know, previous MVP winner,
they're ready to win now. So there's there is that gap,
which is a little bit unfortunate. But he's thrown into
the fire man. He's going to be put into situations
where we're just going to have to live. As you
pointed out, you know, with the defense.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
And I'm sure if an OKAC fan was listening to this,
they point out that, hey, not only did they not
have Jalen Williams, but they also lost Holme, Grin and
Hartenstein into two overtimes for fouling out. Well, what I
would say is that for the way this Rockets team
is built without Fred, and then losing him in Thompson. Really,
the Rockets had trouble exploiting the lack of size near
(28:51):
the rim, because as long as the Thunder had their
guys like Crusoe and Casey and Wallace and Dort that
could you know, exert the ball pressure on the perimeter
or you know, play KD really hard away from the ball,
then it was tough for the Rockets to get near
the rim to where their theoretical size advantage could convert
over over you know, an OKAC team that didn't have
(29:12):
shut and Hardy like. That was the issue for me
is that you know, yeah, the Rockets theoretically got some
breaks when they fouled off those big men, but without
the point guard, it's tougher to take advantage of those.
And you know, it's not beyond the Thunder being really good,
which is, you know, something we have to keep mentioning.
The Rockets also didn't have a men Thompson, and so
I'm hoping that, you know, this is a game that
(29:32):
if the Rockets get more opportunities in the near future,
that if the men's able to stay out there, the
late game execution looks a lot different.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah, absolutely, and unfortunate outcome, Ben, I appreciate you doing this,
you know. So it's basically Rockets fall short by one
point four in double overtime. They'll play again on Friday
against the Pistons. I think the Rockets look really strong.
There's a lot of positive things, a lot of promising things.
Ben and I will be back tomorrow. We're going to
(29:59):
do a show with Rockets employee who shall still remain nameless.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I believe no question sare friends and the business operations.
We can say it now, Okay, awesome.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
We're gonna talk all things about the Rockets, you know,
things going on behind the scenes and things of that nature.
So it's gonna be fun. We're looking forward to that
and so we will see you guys tomorrow. Appreciate everybody.
We've been overwhelming sports tonight. Everybody's showing up. It was
a hell of a game. I'm sure you guys all
lived it just.
Speaker 3 (30:24):
Like we did and died.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Yeah, exactly. So thank you all for hanging out. Make
sure to subscribe if you don't if you haven't already,
to get notifications when we go live, and we will
see you guys tomorrow. Thanks everybody,
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