August 28, 2025 • 31 mins
Leland Conway, Newsradio 600 KOGO host, and Rob Chadwick, director of training and education for the U.S. Concealed Carry Association, join Ryan in-studio for a conversation about individual gun rights, responsibility, and safety in the wake of a mass shooting at a Minneapolis church.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Because the gentleman that used to occupy this studio during
this time slot on this microphone is in studio with
me today along.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
With a very special guest.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You might remember him from such famous uncommon sense shows
on this program, but he's now making his home at KOGO.
That's News Radio six hundred San Diego. Conway and Larson
Leland Conway. What's up man, go to see your faith
thunder goodness, happy man.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome back, man, welcome back. Yeah, it feels good.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I just I just rated the snack machine in the
break room, so it's like it's like old times.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So you definitely remembered.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
And now I know you've always been on the road,
you know, doing things, and from that you still live
in the Springs right. Oh yeah, there it is okay,
And our next guest, Rob Chadwick, tell us a little
bit more about him and how you know him, how
you met him, how this genesis started. Yeah, so I
can't wait to introduce him.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
My day job, in addition to the radio stuff, is
I'm the Rocky Mountain District manager for Delta Defense.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We manage the United.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
States Conceal Carry Association. As you know, the Second Amendment
is my other love and a Second Amendment absolutist, but
I'm also super passionate about people being trained and educated
and having to plan for that situation. So Rob Chadwick
is our director of Training on the national level for
our organization, which has eight hundred and sixty thousand members nationwide,
and he has got an incredible pedigree. He is the
(01:24):
former head of Tactical Training for the FBI based at Quantico.
Prior to that, he was the head of security detail
for Attorney General bar and then other Attorneys General in
the past.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'll let him talk.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
More about that, but he is an extremely experienced guy,
and he has developed a lot of curriculum for the
u SECA, specifically around the kinds of situations that happened
yesterday in Minneapolis. And his passion is keeping people safe.
So we're super glad to be friends with him. He's
been worked with him for the last couple years. He's
a amazing dude.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Also the author of the book that I'm holding in
my hot little hands right here, not formerly a teen
stain like Russian them Bah, The Practical Guide to Personal Security.
Become a competent and confident stakeholder in your own safety
forward written by William Barr, the aforementioned attorney general that
Leland mentioned there. Rob Chadwick joins us, the former head
of the FBI's tactical Training program.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Ron, thank you so much for being here, Ran, thanks
so much of the opportunity, appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Leland, thank you appreciate that intro.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And it's a thrill to be here with you now.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
As Leland just touched on, because it's in the news,
the timing, you know, is very appropriate, I think for
you to kind of reflect upon maybe logistically what happened
the shooting in Minneapolis. It being a soft target. I'm
using broader terms here, but from your level of expertise,
your assessment of that scene and what happened.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Yeah, again and just an absolute heartbreaking tragedy. We've seen
this happen way too many times in the United States,
and you know, again you hit it Ryan a soft target.
As most schools, you know, places of business and certainly
places of worship are, You've got people who are you know,
concentrated and lots of children. And as more information emerges
(03:06):
about this specific incident, it becomes very clear that that's
exactly what this shooter was hoping to do was kill children,
And you know, it's unimaginable to us, but clearly there's
you know, there's something going on here that that in
the United States that we must address in terms of
like just mental health and the red flags. And there's
almost always leakage that that happens in the in the days, weeks, months,
(03:31):
sometimes years leading up to these attacks. And you know,
that's exactly what the FI is going to be helping
with now is going back and interviewing people to try
to determine what did we miss, what was not brought forward,
why was that not brought forward, that sort of thing,
and so again doesn't bring back those kids.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
It.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
You know, it's just unimaginable to be that parent that
has to come to school and find out that, hey,
your child is not coming home today. I'm a grandfather
now too, and again just cannot imagine that pain. But
one of the things that Bureau does as a very
small part of this investigation is what are those lessons learned?
How can we discern, you know, what did we miss,
(04:10):
what were the warning signs, and then communicate that out
to the public and help them understand what to look
for and then what to do about it, right?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Who to go to?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Rob Chadwick, our guest, You said the term leakage, and
I want to kind of dig in on that a
little bit looking back, you know, with the benefit of hindsight,
it being twenty twenty, and yet you try to evaluate
what you should have known in real time but did
not know, so that you can better prepare yourself to
prevent this from happening again, or identifying a potential threat
(04:41):
before something like this happens. So Rob, can you walk
us through that process of what the FBI is looking for?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
So the first thing they a will to do is
start analyzing this person's social network, their family, their neighbors,
their friends, their former colleagues, any type of social media postings,
just to see, all right, what was out there, what
may have been broadcast, you know in terms of you know,
on the on the internet or chat rooms that sort
of thing. And then, of course, you know the leakage
(05:09):
that I'm talking about, are you know, maybe unintended signals
that this person is on we call a pathway towards violence.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Right, It always begins with an.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Ideation, right, this this this active shooter person that has
internalized some sort of wrong against them generally, whether it's
loss of a friendship or loss of a social status
or financial status, whatever it is, they feel wronged somehow,
and instead of being able to accept that they are
responsible in some way, these shooters typically focus that blame outward.
(05:43):
They look for someone to blame someone else, a group,
a person, a business, of an ideology potentially, and so
they this ideation then becomes a fixation, right, and they
start doing research, they start doing planning. That's the only
opportun unity we have as a society to interdict is
if you see these people, and that's what again the BAU.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Right, you've seen the criminal minds that show.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yeah, so BAU stands for Behavioral Analysis Unit. I can
promise you it is not nearly as cool as it
is on TV.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I worked across the street from them when I was
at Hogan's Alley, the training center at the FBI Academy.
BAU was in the third sub basement under the cafeteria
at Quantico.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
But they do some really cool stuff.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
And one of the sub units at BAU is studying
these active shooter attacks, and they've studied literally hundreds of them. Unfortunately,
we'll get more into that later. But what they do
is try to draw out what are these things, what
are these lessons learned, what are the red flags indicators
that we can show. And one of the prime indicators
(06:48):
there is, you know, just this fixation with whether it's
previous attacks. So you know, for people listening right now, one,
I want you to understand, all of us, you me,
Ryan Leland, all of us listening, your brain has this
inherent bias towards normalcy, all right. So your brain will
(07:09):
literally try to trick something that's abnormal, trick you into
thinking they'll try to fit it into a neat category,
all right. And so you see someone who is displaying
some abhorrent behavior, and you know, maybe they're just this,
or maybe they're just sort of pawned off or play
it off or assume something else might be going on.
It can't be as serious as all that. And unfortunately
(07:31):
that's what happens so many times. Is I guarantee you
there are multiple people in this shooter's life that had
a decent indication that this person was on a pathway
towards violence. I guarantee it. Now we'll try to see
who that was. What happened, you know, along the way
but those leakage, those indicators of you know what, this
(07:51):
person is doing an awful lot of research looking at
a lot of times. It starts with the two shooters
at Columbine and I will specifically never name any of
the shooters.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
We do that as a society, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, so the two shooters at Columbine are almost you know,
elevated to hero status amongst this this sad subculture. Uh,
we know already that the shooter from yesterday was the
was the same idealized the shooter from the one in
Nashville earlier that right at the right had had. And
(08:25):
so this fixation because what they do is they sort
of live that thrill and believe it. It's a thrill
for them. Uh, they live that as much as they
can until they actually breach the attack.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Right.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
So some of the things that we've learned over the
years and these active shooter cases are again there is
no one size fits all. There is no racial profile, no,
you know, none of it. They tried. That was one
of the early missions of the BA was can we
develop a playbook, Can we develop a Hey, this is.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
What you want to look for.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
We've had shooters from every race almost every age range, right,
both male and female. And so what you got to
look for is tendencies, right, so this this uh, you know,
fixation on violence. They a lot of times again not
always a lot of times will be drawn to these
ultra violent movies. There was early research, you know, like
(09:18):
movies like Taxi Driver. It's a movie called Old Boy.
Several of these high profile shooters were known to have
watched these movies and videos over and over and over again.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
There used to be a video.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
On YouTube called Zero Day and it was basically a
recreation of the Columbine attack. And we know that these
other shooters would watch this literally hundreds of times because
they're fantasizing about it, knowing they're going to get one
chance at their ultimate you know, their attack. Once they
broached that attack, it's it's you know, it's all over
(09:51):
except for the shouting at that point. And so, you know,
what people need to understand is there could be some
leakage there. You need to pay attention and most importantly,
have the courage to come forward and say something, whether
it's to the police, maybe it's an HR person at
your company, maybe it's a parent, whatever that is. We
have seen some really courageous Americans come forward with information.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Hey, I saw this kid.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
There was a fairly famous case where a woman would
stand there washing her dishes looking out the window and
saw this teenage boy repeatedly going into this storage unit
right when of these roll up storage type of things.
He would kind of sneak in there, look kind of
squirrely and shut the door behind to.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Be in there for hours.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
And she just got a bad feeling about it, so
she called the police. They executed a search, warn't sure
enough he had the makings for a school attack. Columbine
style was gonna and her courage to come forward and
say something not only saved all the kids' lives at
that school that he was going to attack, but his
life too. Yeah, right, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Fascinating insights from Rob Chadwick, the former head of the
FBI's Tactical Training Program, the author of the Practical Guide
to Personal Security Become a Competent and confident Stakeholder in
your Own Safety. That's available on Amazon, by the way.
So Rob, you're talking about the profile the shooter, and
again fascinating insights into what to expect, what we should
have known, what to look for, if you're out there
(11:15):
and you know somebody that could be unstable, to Rob's point,
air on the side of caution, they check it out.
Maybe it's no big deal, but now you know, now
you have that peace of mind rather than erring on
the side, well it's probably nothing, and then something like
yesterday happens. Rob, We're going to have Laura Carno, who
is a good friend of Leland Conways from Faster Colorado
on with George Brockler filling in for Dan Cannaplis a
(11:36):
little later on today on that program. And what she
does Faster Colorado is try to instruct faculty administrators, teachers
on site at these supposed soft targets, make them harder targets,
so that a potential shooter might think twice about entering
a school or a church or a movie theater that
there might be somebody, a good guy there with a
(11:57):
gun that.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Neutralizes the shooter in real time.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
So when you make that assessment, Rob, of what could
be done now, again, I'm not just Monday morning quarterbacking
here for the Minneapolis church, but what would you recommend
in your assessment in retrospect that could harden that target?
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Absolutely the most important first step is always acknowledgment that
this could happen, It is happening, it does happen, it
could happen to you everyone. Every time we do an
interview again, there hundreds in the last twenty five years, unfortunately,
but every single time all of us have heard I
never thought it would happen here. I never thought it
(12:34):
could happen to me, and every one of these victims, right,
would have said that now the most important thing I
want to share with your listeners. Again, BAU did literally
thousands of interviews and the one most important tip.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
That I will share with you.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
They asked, all right, what was it that separated the
people who have been involved in one of these I'll
call it low frequency but ultra high consequence events, an
active shooter attack. What was it that separated them? Right,
the people that achieved a positive outcome from those who
were overcome by events that those who just had no chance.
(13:15):
The single and it's funny, not funny, it's interesting to think.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You know a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Oh, maybe it was their military training, maybe they were
a concealed weapons holder, maybe whatever they had taken. Jiu
jitsu the single most common denominator among the people who
have achieved a positive outcome in any of these things
is that they had taken.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Time ahead of time to develop a plan.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
What would I do if, right, you're sitting at work
right now, listening to the radio, or you're in your car,
take a few minutes today, have this discussion with yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Acknowledge it could happen.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Right, these are happening more frequently, and what would you
do regardless of what everybody else is doing. Don't wait
for someone else to tell you what to do, and
don't fall back on that trap of your again, that
biased towards a normalcy.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
We've heard it many times. I heard what I.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Thought was card backfires or firecrackers. There's no way this
guy is actually going to do this, and you were
losing the most impressed. The most important element of any
crisis is time. A few seconds between you and the
developing danger could make all the difference in the world.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Without question.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Rob Chadwick, the director of Training and Education for the
US Concealed Carry Association, joining us in studio along with
Leland Conway, our good friend News Radio six hundred COG
host in San Diego. So, before we go to our
first break, here Robin greatly appreciate your time and your insights.
The Practical Guide to Personal Security Becoming a competent and
confident stakeholder in.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Your own safety.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Tell us what went into the writing of this book
and what people will find in it.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
One of the great privileges.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Of my life is I spent time as a police
officer at thirty years in law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
It's a police officer where I grew up.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
And then joined the FBI and did thirty years and
was able to retire as the chief of the Tactical
Training program at Quantico. And I had all this training,
and I'd seen all these things, and the thing that
I wanted to share was that the experience I've seen
so many things, but so many people out there are
(15:14):
concerned and they don't know where to start.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
A lot of times it could be very intimidating to
go to a firing range or very intimidating to ask
for help. It's a really personal thing. How do I
protect myself? How do I protect my family?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Right? And so I wanted to write a book based.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
On my years of experience that is extremely practical.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I didn't want to call it The Dummies Guy, but
it's kind of written like that, right, it's where do
I start this journey? Many of our fellow Americans right
now are having their first self defense awakening.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Something has happened in their life.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
They see what's going on in the news, whatever, and
they where do I start? And I wanted a resource
to put into their hands, right, whether it's their hands
or they put into their college.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Kid's hand going off.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
There's a chapter in there about securing a college dorm room,
staying safe on the road, there's medical just a primer.
How do you become a confident and competence stakeholder in
your own security? And what's been so rewarding is I've
actually had professional colleagues call me and say, man, I
actually never thought of it in that way.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And that's what I wanted, Right.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
There's no fluff, there's no bravado, I promise you, and
not a lot of stories other than stories that would
relate to people in their everyday lives and how it
could apply to them.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Well, tell us the story of how you met Leland Conway,
what you guys are doing here together while you're in Colorado?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
What's going on?
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Yeah, so Leland and I work together I'm the director
of training. He is one of our regional account managers.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
And we have an.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Incredible partner here. We actually several incredible partners were visiting
with I wanted to come out and you know, again
press the flesh and meet these people and really see
what's happening, you know, away from the flagpole, so to speak. Right,
I generally work out at headquarters, which is in Wisconsin,
but the best part is going out and meeting the
instructors and the range and the customers, the members, Right,
(17:02):
That's what I love is actually getting out and mixing
it up with these people, spending time with a guy
like Leland who was out here doing it every single day,
and asking him, all right, man, from a headquarters perspective,
what can my team? And my team is my job
is to develop curriculum and interesting and engaging content that
people can.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Apply to their everyday life.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
And his job is to find people that want to
come out and listen to that, right, And so I
need to know, all right, well, Leland, what are you seeing,
what are you hearing, what's working, what's not? And so
that's kind of what we're doing out here today. And
of course he said, hey, would you mind coming in
here to k twow and he.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Said, Man, this sounds like a dream. Love having you here.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Rob Chadwick, the former head of the FBI's Tactical Training Program.
One of the websites that I hunted down from Leland
Conway is Delta defense dot com. You're wearing it right now.
I see that on your shirt there, Leland. So right
before we go to break, you know the clock here? Yeah,
exactly what that is and what people will find that.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So we manage the US con Seale Care Association, it's
eight hundred and sixty thousand members. We'd like to take
of a as a family of protectors, people ready to
protect themselves and their family, and we give them education,
training and then if they get in a self defense incident,
they have some legal defense on the backside. So it's
kind of that whole plan that Rob was talking about,
having that plan and we get people prepared so that
(18:16):
they know if this happens, then this is what I'm
going to do.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
One question I have for you before we go to break,
and then I want to kind of dig into it
with Rob when we come back from break, and that is,
let's sell you somebody's hearing this for the first time,
the great information that Rob has to offer, the great
programs that are available to a person out there.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
They're just starting. What advice would you give them to
get started?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Number one, take a class, yeah right, go to a
qualified instructor and have a class. Get over that, maybe
that fear of something you don't know, and get to
know it. It's a lot more fun than you might think.
And once you've had that class, you're going to be
My wife. The first time she shot, she didn't want
to do it, and now she's better than me at
the range. Right, So it's really about just kind of
(18:55):
getting past that first homp. Get out there, take a class,
talk to people, learn from people.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I had the conversation with Dan Caplis about Amy going
out to the range, and I told him about my
mom when she went out to the range with my dad.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Is it true that women tend their Why is that?
Why do you think that is? Two reasons?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
One they pay attention, okay, Two they ask questions. Yeah
that's right, Yeah, pay attention and we don't ask questions.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Same experience a quantico yeah right.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
So for all you ladies out there, and we know
we got got a lot of female listeners and Kelly
Kuchair included. Take that to heart. You know you are
willing to learn. You got to have that open mind.
You got to be a sponge. You got to be
willing to ask questions and willing to build in your
knowledge of guns.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
And your confidence in handling them.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Rob Chadwick is in studio with us, along with Leland Conway.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Much more would come back after this on Ryan Schuling Live.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And Kelly Kuchaer behind the Glass as well in studio
The Illustrious the He needs no introduction, as Deve Letterman
would say, Leland Conway and here are the texts Ryan,
all in caps.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Now from this point forward, we want Leland back in Denver.
Six exclamation points. If we added a seventh, Leland, could
we make that happen?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Uh, I'm gonna need nine. Okay, I even broached the topic.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
All right, all right, we'll talk you in though in Spring. No, well,
you're not even here at Speed Live in the Springs.
I know we talk all the time this one. Ryan,
always like your show, and glad you had Leland on.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
He's still here if you have time, ask if he's
recovered his firearms from that tragic boating accident where he
lost them all from ornery.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
No, they are still at the bottom of eleven Mile Reservoir.
That's really a tragedy. And it seems like I I
probably ought to learn that lesson. I don't know why
I continue to put my gun safe.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
In my boat.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Why would you do that? Every time I go out there, man,
a storm whips up, and yeah, you need the practical
personal security. It's right, and you need to become a
competent and confident stakeholder in your own safety.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I fail in I failed. How's that for a sad way?
Back to the book by Rob Chadwick. He's the former
head of the FBI's Tactical Training program. So many great stories.
We're not going to get to them all on air here,
but I've been hearing about them off air. Leland was
driving around in circles to hear more of them. So
let's tap into that knowledge with Rob Chadwick. You can
find that book I just mentioned on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Rob.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I kind of talked with this with Leland before the break,
But there are a lot of people out there, like
you said, it's that first step in kind of standing
up for your own defense and investing in that, making
that investment, getting the firearm, getting the training.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
And if somebody.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Feels maybe a little intimidated, a little overwhelmed by the
thought of that, what would you say to them that
kind of coax them in, encourage them and reinassure them.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Yeah, the first thing I would say is, I completely
understand it is an intimidating world, right. And so one
of the things I'm most proud of with the USCCA
is is when I got here about two years ago,
I knew that we had to expand what we offer.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
So the firearm, Make no mistake, a gun is the
one tool, and it's a tool that comes the closest
to leveling the playing field between the week and the strong.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
So I think kicks in your door and you are
otherwise overmatched, a firearm maybe the one thing that stands
between you and your family and certain ruin right. So
the access to that tool the Second Amendment is an
incredible blessing. But there are plenty of people out there
who may never or may not yet feel comfortable with
(22:22):
a firearm, and I understand that completely. When I was
a policeman, I also carried a bunch of non lethal options. Right,
So I carried on my patrol belt, you know, obviously
a pistol, but I had a can of pepper spray,
I had a baton, and I had a taser. And
so when I came to the United States Steel Carry Association,
I said, you know what, we really need to partner
(22:43):
with what I believe are the top manufacturers in the
non lethal space. And so taser. Right, everybody's heard of
a police taser, believe it or not. They're actually available
for citizens to use. This is a very effective weapon
that is energy based, right, is it causes neural mode
secular incapacitation. Now, could you die as a result of
(23:04):
a taser if you fell and hit your head, or
on an incredibly rare chance it has some sort of
other underlying issue, it could kill you. But these are
certainly not designed to kill somebody. Same thing with pepper spray. Right,
These are weapons that we have partnered with the manufacturers
themselves to create an end user and an instructor course.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
To teach people. You know, it's not enough to just
go out.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
To Walmart or to seven to eleven and buy a
can of pepper spray.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
If you're going to have to use that.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
It's a serious situation and you'd better have done it
before and know not only how to use it, but
what are those limitations?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Right?
Speaker 4 (23:42):
If you spray somebody in the face with pepper spray,
I'm sorry, They're not going to just fall on the
ground and be completely incapacitated. They can still fight through it, right,
And so you have to know that before you bet
your life on it.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
So we partnered with ASP ASP saber Berna, which has
these non lethal launchers, and then of course Taser to
offer those people who may not be comfortable with a firearm,
but it's something something right, you must accept this could happen.
And the other side of that equation is and the
reason I wrote this book I saw firsthand. I was
(24:14):
at Quantico the day George Floyd was killed. Okay, my
unit's job, in addition to training new agents for the FBI,
was to travel the country and the world training our
law enforcement first responder partners. Right, so state, federal tribal
police officers, sheriff's deputies, and our unit would come into
town and put on some very realistic training for them
(24:34):
shooting and moving and searching and all the things that
will help bring them home at the end of the day.
The day George Floyd was killed, my unit was deployed
from Quantico, which is just south of Washington, d C.
We were sent to help try to control what was
going on at Lafayette Park in and around Washington, d C.
The rioting, burning, all that kind of thing. And what
we saw though in the days, weeks, months, and now
(24:57):
years were five years post the defund the police movement,
and this certainly wasn't the only thing, but it's certainly exacerbated.
We are looking at an absolute national crisis in policing. Okay,
our security and every single person I'm talking to you
right now, regardless of your zip code, this affects you
because on average, in the last five years, the police
(25:21):
response time you pick up the phone call nine to
one one. There's the difference in that time from five
years ago to now, on average has doubled.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Okay, And so you know, the average violent attack, which
I talk about in the book, I just want people
to understand, the average violent attack begins and.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Ends in seven seconds. Seven seconds.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
So you know, even if they were a policeman right
outside the door, right you've got to do something for
a few seconds to protect yourself, right. And so now
that that problem has been exacerbated drastically, we've actually seen
dozens of police departments close their doors forever.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
They don't anymore, they've gone out of business.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
It's hard to even imagine that, but it's true that
I was just with a former chief trainer for the
City of Pittsburgh PD.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Great department.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
They don't have any policemen in several of their stations
for several hours every single night. The police station itself
is closed, incredible because they can't staff it.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Right.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
So we saw this immediate reaction in lack of recruiting,
lack of retention, right, and that is going to have
not only an immediate effect. Like myself, I retired earlier
than I thought I was going to. I loved every
second of my job, and then I saw what happened
at Lafayette Park. I was there with our you know,
all my federal partners, like, oh my god, thirty years
(26:40):
in law enforcement could be over in the blink of
an eye. And you know, candidly, I had very little
confidence that the the FBI was going to stand behind
me if there was an incident there, and so it
was time to retire, and me and thousands of other
experienced officers made the decision to retire, so that experience
went out the door. At the same time with no
one wants to be a policeman anymore. It's a dangerous
(27:03):
job that doesn't pay well.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I just want to add something to what Rob said.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
I don't mean to interrupt, but in Los Angeles they
lost three police officers in an explosion the other day.
And the three police officers they lost combined over ninety
five years of policing experience. So what Rob is saying,
when a police officer retires right because he's concerned the
community doesn't have his back, You're not just losing a body,
(27:28):
You're losing somebody who has had.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
All those years of experience. Think about the wealth of
his experience.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
That book, All of that came from this brain over
here that has experienced all of this. You lose that
off the street gone. The impact of one officer is
so much bigger than one officer.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
He is Leland Conway, You remember that voice. Rob Chadwick.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Also great information and studio here of the book The
Practical Guide to Personal Security. Become a competent and confident
stakeholder in your own safety will conclude after this final
time out, and I just love how Rob put this
in the previous break. You know, you have a balanced breakfast,
meaning you have a lot of different options at your disposal.
Maybe they're non lethal, maybe those are effective, but you
(28:07):
have to know the limitations of those non lethal options
and arm yourself if you're comfortable doing it, Train yourself,
get prepared to be your own best first source of defense.
Ryan Shooting Live concludes after this shoe bring back Leland
and there are the nine exclamation points.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I guess it's going to happen now. Whoa so much
so that.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
We brought back the smashing pumpkins? Thanks for that, ZI thought.
Those are the moments we were talking about during the break.
You just can't predict them. In radio, Leland, will you
show Ryan how to do drunk kamala? I think, oh, yeah,
that was one of your bits. I think, yeah, but
you helped me with that. It was glad that was together.
That was that was a Conway Shooting production. Fashold Yeah,
(28:56):
uh ask Leland. We're in eleven mile Reservoir. Did he
drop his guns? I'm a scuba diver. I want to
look for them.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Ah, Okay, yeah, they're gonna need some WD forty when
they come out of there.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
All right, time for.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
God for a Jerry Springer final thought with Rob Chadwick.
He is the author The Practical Guide to Personal Security.
Become a competent and confident stakeholder in your own safety.
You can find that on Amazon. That was just published July. I.
I just noticed that, Rob, So plug your book one
more time. Whatever you want to say in these final
couple of minutes, I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
The reason I wrote the book was was honestly to
de romanticize right self defense, de romanticize the gun culture.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Like we see so much about Hollywood and all that.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
There's a lot in there that is it's not meant
to persuade, it's not meant to dissuade, it's meant to inform. Yeah,
so you can make your own decision about how you
want to best protect yourself. But the most important thing
is make the decision to protect yourself. You cannot afford
to outsource your personal security. I love the police. I'm
a massive law enforcement supporter. I've got many relatives all
(30:00):
on the job. I'm not knocking them they cannot be
everywhere all the time, and especially not now where their
most departments are thirty percent understaffed. I think there was
a in the White House press conference today thirty thousand
officers short nationally.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
And so that leads directly to your personal security wherever
you live. You have to have a plan. It doesn't
have to be complicated. Just one it could happen. Two
what am I going to do? And three commit to
it even if others aren't right. We always see, you know,
something happens and there's a crowd. Everyone looks around. Who
else is doing something? No one's moving? Be that person,
(30:36):
take action, Be the one to break the mold and
head away. Put time and distance regardless, always put time
and distance between you and whatever trouble is developing. That's
never a bad plan. If you're wrong, no big deal. Yeah,
you give yourself the grace of that. It could be
embarrassing who cares.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
But if you're right, could make all the difference in
the world.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Situational awareness leland. People are excited that you're back. If
they're interested in maybe taking one of your courses, signing
up for this, getting that journey started, Where should they go?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
What should they do.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, and go to USCCA dot com. Up in the
left hand corners is the thing for training. Put in
your zip code. It'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Where all the free classes are. All right, what a
moment you guys got to come back. Appreciate you brother,
if you're back in town, Rob, especially if you come back,
thank you. Love to have you back in such great
information for our listeners and it's always good welcoming back.
Leland Conway. Rob Chadwick author One More Time, Love you too, brother.
You can find it on Amazon. Just publish. The Practical
Guide to Personal Security. Become a competent and confident stakeholder
(31:31):
in your own safety, written by Rob Chadwick
Because the gentleman that used to occupy this studio during
this time slot on this microphone is in studio with
me today along.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
With a very special guest.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
You might remember him from such famous uncommon sense shows
on this program, but he's now making his home at KOGO.
That's News Radio six hundred San Diego. Conway and Larson
Leland Conway. What's up man, go to see your faith
thunder goodness, happy man.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Welcome back, man, welcome back. Yeah, it feels good.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
I just I just rated the snack machine in the
break room, so it's like it's like old times.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
So you definitely remembered.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
And now I know you've always been on the road,
you know, doing things, and from that you still live
in the Springs right. Oh yeah, there it is okay,
And our next guest, Rob Chadwick, tell us a little
bit more about him and how you know him, how
you met him, how this genesis started. Yeah, so I
can't wait to introduce him.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
My day job, in addition to the radio stuff, is
I'm the Rocky Mountain District manager for Delta Defense.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
We manage the United.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
States Conceal Carry Association. As you know, the Second Amendment
is my other love and a Second Amendment absolutist, but
I'm also super passionate about people being trained and educated
and having to plan for that situation. So Rob Chadwick
is our director of Training on the national level for
our organization, which has eight hundred and sixty thousand members nationwide,
and he has got an incredible pedigree. He is the
(01:24):
former head of Tactical Training for the FBI based at Quantico.
Prior to that, he was the head of security detail
for Attorney General bar and then other Attorneys General in
the past.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I'll let him talk.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
More about that, but he is an extremely experienced guy,
and he has developed a lot of curriculum for the
u SECA, specifically around the kinds of situations that happened
yesterday in Minneapolis. And his passion is keeping people safe.
So we're super glad to be friends with him. He's
been worked with him for the last couple years. He's
a amazing dude.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Also the author of the book that I'm holding in
my hot little hands right here, not formerly a teen
stain like Russian them Bah, The Practical Guide to Personal Security.
Become a competent and confident stakeholder in your own safety
forward written by William Barr, the aforementioned attorney general that
Leland mentioned there. Rob Chadwick joins us, the former head
of the FBI's tactical Training program.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Ron, thank you so much for being here, Ran, thanks
so much of the opportunity, appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (02:20):
Leland, thank you appreciate that intro.
Speaker 2 (02:23):
And it's a thrill to be here with you now.
Speaker 1 (02:25):
As Leland just touched on, because it's in the news,
the timing, you know, is very appropriate, I think for
you to kind of reflect upon maybe logistically what happened
the shooting in Minneapolis. It being a soft target. I'm
using broader terms here, but from your level of expertise,
your assessment of that scene and what happened.
Speaker 4 (02:44):
Yeah, again and just an absolute heartbreaking tragedy. We've seen
this happen way too many times in the United States,
and you know, again you hit it Ryan a soft target.
As most schools, you know, places of business and certainly
places of worship are, You've got people who are you know,
concentrated and lots of children. And as more information emerges
(03:06):
about this specific incident, it becomes very clear that that's
exactly what this shooter was hoping to do was kill children,
And you know, it's unimaginable to us, but clearly there's
you know, there's something going on here that that in
the United States that we must address in terms of
like just mental health and the red flags. And there's
almost always leakage that that happens in the in the days, weeks, months,
(03:31):
sometimes years leading up to these attacks. And you know,
that's exactly what the FI is going to be helping
with now is going back and interviewing people to try
to determine what did we miss, what was not brought forward,
why was that not brought forward, that sort of thing,
and so again doesn't bring back those kids.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
It.
Speaker 4 (03:47):
You know, it's just unimaginable to be that parent that
has to come to school and find out that, hey,
your child is not coming home today. I'm a grandfather
now too, and again just cannot imagine that pain. But
one of the things that Bureau does as a very
small part of this investigation is what are those lessons learned?
How can we discern, you know, what did we miss,
(04:10):
what were the warning signs, and then communicate that out
to the public and help them understand what to look
for and then what to do about it, right?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Who to go to?
Speaker 1 (04:19):
Rob Chadwick, our guest, You said the term leakage, and
I want to kind of dig in on that a
little bit looking back, you know, with the benefit of hindsight,
it being twenty twenty, and yet you try to evaluate
what you should have known in real time but did
not know, so that you can better prepare yourself to
prevent this from happening again, or identifying a potential threat
(04:41):
before something like this happens. So Rob, can you walk
us through that process of what the FBI is looking for?
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (04:47):
So the first thing they a will to do is
start analyzing this person's social network, their family, their neighbors,
their friends, their former colleagues, any type of social media postings,
just to see, all right, what was out there, what
may have been broadcast, you know in terms of you know,
on the on the internet or chat rooms that sort
of thing. And then, of course, you know the leakage
(05:09):
that I'm talking about, are you know, maybe unintended signals
that this person is on we call a pathway towards violence.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Right, It always begins with an.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
Ideation, right, this this this active shooter person that has
internalized some sort of wrong against them generally, whether it's
loss of a friendship or loss of a social status
or financial status, whatever it is, they feel wronged somehow,
and instead of being able to accept that they are
responsible in some way, these shooters typically focus that blame outward.
(05:43):
They look for someone to blame someone else, a group,
a person, a business, of an ideology potentially, and so
they this ideation then becomes a fixation, right, and they
start doing research, they start doing planning. That's the only
opportun unity we have as a society to interdict is
if you see these people, and that's what again the BAU.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Right, you've seen the criminal minds that show.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Yeah, so BAU stands for Behavioral Analysis Unit. I can
promise you it is not nearly as cool as it
is on TV.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Right.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I worked across the street from them when I was
at Hogan's Alley, the training center at the FBI Academy.
BAU was in the third sub basement under the cafeteria
at Quantico.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
But they do some really cool stuff.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
And one of the sub units at BAU is studying
these active shooter attacks, and they've studied literally hundreds of them. Unfortunately,
we'll get more into that later. But what they do
is try to draw out what are these things, what
are these lessons learned, what are the red flags indicators
that we can show. And one of the prime indicators
(06:48):
there is, you know, just this fixation with whether it's
previous attacks. So you know, for people listening right now, one,
I want you to understand, all of us, you me,
Ryan Leland, all of us listening, your brain has this
inherent bias towards normalcy, all right. So your brain will
(07:09):
literally try to trick something that's abnormal, trick you into
thinking they'll try to fit it into a neat category,
all right. And so you see someone who is displaying
some abhorrent behavior, and you know, maybe they're just this,
or maybe they're just sort of pawned off or play
it off or assume something else might be going on.
It can't be as serious as all that. And unfortunately
(07:31):
that's what happens so many times. Is I guarantee you
there are multiple people in this shooter's life that had
a decent indication that this person was on a pathway
towards violence. I guarantee it. Now we'll try to see
who that was. What happened, you know, along the way
but those leakage, those indicators of you know what, this
(07:51):
person is doing an awful lot of research looking at
a lot of times. It starts with the two shooters
at Columbine and I will specifically never name any of
the shooters.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
We do that as a society, you know.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Yeah, so the two shooters at Columbine are almost you know,
elevated to hero status amongst this this sad subculture. Uh,
we know already that the shooter from yesterday was the
was the same idealized the shooter from the one in
Nashville earlier that right at the right had had. And
(08:25):
so this fixation because what they do is they sort
of live that thrill and believe it. It's a thrill
for them. Uh, they live that as much as they
can until they actually breach the attack.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
Right.
Speaker 4 (08:38):
So some of the things that we've learned over the
years and these active shooter cases are again there is
no one size fits all. There is no racial profile, no,
you know, none of it. They tried. That was one
of the early missions of the BA was can we
develop a playbook, Can we develop a Hey, this is.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
What you want to look for.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
We've had shooters from every race almost every age range, right,
both male and female. And so what you got to
look for is tendencies, right, so this this uh, you know,
fixation on violence. They a lot of times again not
always a lot of times will be drawn to these
ultra violent movies. There was early research, you know, like
(09:18):
movies like Taxi Driver. It's a movie called Old Boy.
Several of these high profile shooters were known to have
watched these movies and videos over and over and over again.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
There used to be a video.
Speaker 4 (09:30):
On YouTube called Zero Day and it was basically a
recreation of the Columbine attack. And we know that these
other shooters would watch this literally hundreds of times because
they're fantasizing about it, knowing they're going to get one
chance at their ultimate you know, their attack. Once they
broached that attack, it's it's you know, it's all over
(09:51):
except for the shouting at that point. And so, you know,
what people need to understand is there could be some
leakage there. You need to pay attention and most importantly,
have the courage to come forward and say something, whether
it's to the police, maybe it's an HR person at
your company, maybe it's a parent, whatever that is. We
have seen some really courageous Americans come forward with information.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
Hey, I saw this kid.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
There was a fairly famous case where a woman would
stand there washing her dishes looking out the window and
saw this teenage boy repeatedly going into this storage unit
right when of these roll up storage type of things.
He would kind of sneak in there, look kind of
squirrely and shut the door behind to.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Be in there for hours.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
And she just got a bad feeling about it, so
she called the police. They executed a search, warn't sure
enough he had the makings for a school attack. Columbine
style was gonna and her courage to come forward and
say something not only saved all the kids' lives at
that school that he was going to attack, but his
life too. Yeah, right, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Fascinating insights from Rob Chadwick, the former head of the
FBI's Tactical Training Program, the author of the Practical Guide
to Personal Security Become a Competent and confident Stakeholder in
your Own Safety. That's available on Amazon, by the way.
So Rob, you're talking about the profile the shooter, and
again fascinating insights into what to expect, what we should
have known, what to look for, if you're out there
(11:15):
and you know somebody that could be unstable, to Rob's point,
air on the side of caution, they check it out.
Maybe it's no big deal, but now you know, now
you have that peace of mind rather than erring on
the side, well it's probably nothing, and then something like
yesterday happens. Rob, We're going to have Laura Carno, who
is a good friend of Leland Conways from Faster Colorado
on with George Brockler filling in for Dan Cannaplis a
(11:36):
little later on today on that program. And what she
does Faster Colorado is try to instruct faculty administrators, teachers
on site at these supposed soft targets, make them harder targets,
so that a potential shooter might think twice about entering
a school or a church or a movie theater that
there might be somebody, a good guy there with a
(11:57):
gun that.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
Neutralizes the shooter in real time.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
So when you make that assessment, Rob, of what could
be done now, again, I'm not just Monday morning quarterbacking
here for the Minneapolis church, but what would you recommend
in your assessment in retrospect that could harden that target?
Speaker 4 (12:13):
Absolutely the most important first step is always acknowledgment that
this could happen, It is happening, it does happen, it
could happen to you everyone. Every time we do an
interview again, there hundreds in the last twenty five years, unfortunately,
but every single time all of us have heard I
never thought it would happen here. I never thought it
(12:34):
could happen to me, and every one of these victims, right,
would have said that now the most important thing I
want to share with your listeners. Again, BAU did literally
thousands of interviews and the one most important tip.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
That I will share with you.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
They asked, all right, what was it that separated the
people who have been involved in one of these I'll
call it low frequency but ultra high consequence events, an
active shooter attack. What was it that separated them? Right,
the people that achieved a positive outcome from those who
were overcome by events that those who just had no chance.
(13:15):
The single and it's funny, not funny, it's interesting to think.
Speaker 2 (13:19):
You know a lot of people.
Speaker 4 (13:20):
Oh, maybe it was their military training, maybe they were
a concealed weapons holder, maybe whatever they had taken. Jiu
jitsu the single most common denominator among the people who
have achieved a positive outcome in any of these things
is that they had taken.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Time ahead of time to develop a plan.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
What would I do if, right, you're sitting at work
right now, listening to the radio, or you're in your car,
take a few minutes today, have this discussion with yourself.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Acknowledge it could happen.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Right, these are happening more frequently, and what would you
do regardless of what everybody else is doing. Don't wait
for someone else to tell you what to do, and
don't fall back on that trap of your again, that
biased towards a normalcy.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
We've heard it many times. I heard what I.
Speaker 4 (14:03):
Thought was card backfires or firecrackers. There's no way this
guy is actually going to do this, and you were
losing the most impressed. The most important element of any
crisis is time. A few seconds between you and the
developing danger could make all the difference in the world.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Without question.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Rob Chadwick, the director of Training and Education for the
US Concealed Carry Association, joining us in studio along with
Leland Conway, our good friend News Radio six hundred COG
host in San Diego. So, before we go to our
first break, here Robin greatly appreciate your time and your insights.
The Practical Guide to Personal Security Becoming a competent and
confident stakeholder in.
Speaker 2 (14:41):
Your own safety.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
Tell us what went into the writing of this book
and what people will find in it.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
One of the great privileges.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Of my life is I spent time as a police
officer at thirty years in law enforcement.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
It's a police officer where I grew up.
Speaker 4 (14:54):
And then joined the FBI and did thirty years and
was able to retire as the chief of the Tactical
Training program at Quantico. And I had all this training,
and I'd seen all these things, and the thing that
I wanted to share was that the experience I've seen
so many things, but so many people out there are
(15:14):
concerned and they don't know where to start.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
A lot of times it could be very intimidating to
go to a firing range or very intimidating to ask
for help. It's a really personal thing. How do I
protect myself? How do I protect my family?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Right? And so I wanted to write a book based.
Speaker 4 (15:32):
On my years of experience that is extremely practical.
Speaker 2 (15:36):
Right.
Speaker 4 (15:36):
I didn't want to call it The Dummies Guy, but
it's kind of written like that, right, it's where do
I start this journey? Many of our fellow Americans right
now are having their first self defense awakening.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Something has happened in their life.
Speaker 4 (15:49):
They see what's going on in the news, whatever, and
they where do I start? And I wanted a resource
to put into their hands, right, whether it's their hands
or they put into their college.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
Kid's hand going off.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
There's a chapter in there about securing a college dorm room,
staying safe on the road, there's medical just a primer.
How do you become a confident and competence stakeholder in
your own security? And what's been so rewarding is I've
actually had professional colleagues call me and say, man, I
actually never thought of it in that way.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
And that's what I wanted, Right.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
There's no fluff, there's no bravado, I promise you, and
not a lot of stories other than stories that would
relate to people in their everyday lives and how it
could apply to them.
Speaker 1 (16:29):
Well, tell us the story of how you met Leland Conway,
what you guys are doing here together while you're in Colorado?
Speaker 2 (16:35):
What's going on?
Speaker 4 (16:36):
Yeah, so Leland and I work together I'm the director
of training. He is one of our regional account managers.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
And we have an.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
Incredible partner here. We actually several incredible partners were visiting
with I wanted to come out and you know, again
press the flesh and meet these people and really see
what's happening, you know, away from the flagpole, so to speak. Right,
I generally work out at headquarters, which is in Wisconsin,
but the best part is going out and meeting the
instructors and the range and the customers, the members, Right,
(17:02):
That's what I love is actually getting out and mixing
it up with these people, spending time with a guy
like Leland who was out here doing it every single day,
and asking him, all right, man, from a headquarters perspective,
what can my team? And my team is my job
is to develop curriculum and interesting and engaging content that
people can.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
Apply to their everyday life.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
And his job is to find people that want to
come out and listen to that, right, And so I
need to know, all right, well, Leland, what are you seeing,
what are you hearing, what's working, what's not? And so
that's kind of what we're doing out here today. And
of course he said, hey, would you mind coming in
here to k twow and he.
Speaker 2 (17:36):
Said, Man, this sounds like a dream. Love having you here.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Rob Chadwick, the former head of the FBI's Tactical Training Program.
One of the websites that I hunted down from Leland
Conway is Delta defense dot com. You're wearing it right now.
I see that on your shirt there, Leland. So right
before we go to break, you know the clock here? Yeah,
exactly what that is and what people will find that.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Yeah. Sure.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
So we manage the US con Seale Care Association, it's
eight hundred and sixty thousand members. We'd like to take
of a as a family of protectors, people ready to
protect themselves and their family, and we give them education,
training and then if they get in a self defense incident,
they have some legal defense on the backside. So it's
kind of that whole plan that Rob was talking about,
having that plan and we get people prepared so that
(18:16):
they know if this happens, then this is what I'm
going to do.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
One question I have for you before we go to break,
and then I want to kind of dig into it
with Rob when we come back from break, and that is,
let's sell you somebody's hearing this for the first time,
the great information that Rob has to offer, the great
programs that are available to a person out there.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
They're just starting. What advice would you give them to
get started?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Number one, take a class, yeah right, go to a
qualified instructor and have a class. Get over that, maybe
that fear of something you don't know, and get to
know it. It's a lot more fun than you might think.
And once you've had that class, you're going to be
My wife. The first time she shot, she didn't want
to do it, and now she's better than me at
the range. Right, So it's really about just kind of
(18:55):
getting past that first homp. Get out there, take a class,
talk to people, learn from people.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
I had the conversation with Dan Caplis about Amy going
out to the range, and I told him about my
mom when she went out to the range with my dad.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
Is it true that women tend their Why is that?
Why do you think that is? Two reasons?
Speaker 3 (19:11):
One they pay attention, okay, Two they ask questions. Yeah
that's right, Yeah, pay attention and we don't ask questions.
Speaker 2 (19:18):
Same experience a quantico yeah right.
Speaker 1 (19:21):
So for all you ladies out there, and we know
we got got a lot of female listeners and Kelly
Kuchair included. Take that to heart. You know you are
willing to learn. You got to have that open mind.
You got to be a sponge. You got to be
willing to ask questions and willing to build in your
knowledge of guns.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
And your confidence in handling them.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Rob Chadwick is in studio with us, along with Leland Conway.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Much more would come back after this on Ryan Schuling Live.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
And Kelly Kuchaer behind the Glass as well in studio
The Illustrious the He needs no introduction, as Deve Letterman
would say, Leland Conway and here are the texts Ryan,
all in caps.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Now from this point forward, we want Leland back in Denver.
Six exclamation points. If we added a seventh, Leland, could
we make that happen?
Speaker 3 (20:09):
Uh, I'm gonna need nine. Okay, I even broached the topic.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
All right, all right, we'll talk you in though in Spring. No, well,
you're not even here at Speed Live in the Springs.
I know we talk all the time this one. Ryan,
always like your show, and glad you had Leland on.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
He's still here if you have time, ask if he's
recovered his firearms from that tragic boating accident where he
lost them all from ornery.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
No, they are still at the bottom of eleven Mile Reservoir.
That's really a tragedy. And it seems like I I
probably ought to learn that lesson. I don't know why
I continue to put my gun safe.
Speaker 2 (20:43):
In my boat.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Why would you do that? Every time I go out there, man,
a storm whips up, and yeah, you need the practical
personal security. It's right, and you need to become a
competent and confident stakeholder in your own safety.
Speaker 1 (20:56):
I fail in I failed. How's that for a sad way?
Back to the book by Rob Chadwick. He's the former
head of the FBI's Tactical Training program. So many great stories.
We're not going to get to them all on air here,
but I've been hearing about them off air. Leland was
driving around in circles to hear more of them. So
let's tap into that knowledge with Rob Chadwick. You can
find that book I just mentioned on Amazon.
Speaker 2 (21:15):
Rob.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
I kind of talked with this with Leland before the break,
But there are a lot of people out there, like
you said, it's that first step in kind of standing
up for your own defense and investing in that, making
that investment, getting the firearm, getting the training.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
And if somebody.
Speaker 1 (21:29):
Feels maybe a little intimidated, a little overwhelmed by the
thought of that, what would you say to them that
kind of coax them in, encourage them and reinassure them.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
Yeah, the first thing I would say is, I completely
understand it is an intimidating world, right. And so one
of the things I'm most proud of with the USCCA
is is when I got here about two years ago,
I knew that we had to expand what we offer.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Right.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
So the firearm, Make no mistake, a gun is the
one tool, and it's a tool that comes the closest
to leveling the playing field between the week and the strong.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Right.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
So I think kicks in your door and you are
otherwise overmatched, a firearm maybe the one thing that stands
between you and your family and certain ruin right. So
the access to that tool the Second Amendment is an
incredible blessing. But there are plenty of people out there
who may never or may not yet feel comfortable with
(22:22):
a firearm, and I understand that completely. When I was
a policeman, I also carried a bunch of non lethal options. Right,
So I carried on my patrol belt, you know, obviously
a pistol, but I had a can of pepper spray,
I had a baton, and I had a taser. And
so when I came to the United States Steel Carry Association,
I said, you know what, we really need to partner
(22:43):
with what I believe are the top manufacturers in the
non lethal space. And so taser. Right, everybody's heard of
a police taser, believe it or not. They're actually available
for citizens to use. This is a very effective weapon
that is energy based, right, is it causes neural mode
secular incapacitation. Now, could you die as a result of
(23:04):
a taser if you fell and hit your head, or
on an incredibly rare chance it has some sort of
other underlying issue, it could kill you. But these are
certainly not designed to kill somebody. Same thing with pepper spray. Right,
These are weapons that we have partnered with the manufacturers
themselves to create an end user and an instructor course.
Speaker 2 (23:26):
To teach people. You know, it's not enough to just
go out.
Speaker 4 (23:29):
To Walmart or to seven to eleven and buy a
can of pepper spray.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
If you're going to have to use that.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
It's a serious situation and you'd better have done it
before and know not only how to use it, but
what are those limitations?
Speaker 2 (23:42):
Right?
Speaker 4 (23:42):
If you spray somebody in the face with pepper spray,
I'm sorry, They're not going to just fall on the
ground and be completely incapacitated. They can still fight through it, right,
And so you have to know that before you bet
your life on it.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
Right.
Speaker 4 (23:53):
So we partnered with ASP ASP saber Berna, which has
these non lethal launchers, and then of course Taser to
offer those people who may not be comfortable with a firearm,
but it's something something right, you must accept this could happen.
And the other side of that equation is and the
reason I wrote this book I saw firsthand. I was
(24:14):
at Quantico the day George Floyd was killed. Okay, my
unit's job, in addition to training new agents for the FBI,
was to travel the country and the world training our
law enforcement first responder partners. Right, so state, federal tribal
police officers, sheriff's deputies, and our unit would come into
town and put on some very realistic training for them
(24:34):
shooting and moving and searching and all the things that
will help bring them home at the end of the day.
The day George Floyd was killed, my unit was deployed
from Quantico, which is just south of Washington, d C.
We were sent to help try to control what was
going on at Lafayette Park in and around Washington, d C.
The rioting, burning, all that kind of thing. And what
we saw though in the days, weeks, months, and now
(24:57):
years were five years post the defund the police movement,
and this certainly wasn't the only thing, but it's certainly exacerbated.
We are looking at an absolute national crisis in policing. Okay,
our security and every single person I'm talking to you
right now, regardless of your zip code, this affects you
because on average, in the last five years, the police
(25:21):
response time you pick up the phone call nine to
one one. There's the difference in that time from five
years ago to now, on average has doubled.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (25:29):
Okay, And so you know, the average violent attack, which
I talk about in the book, I just want people
to understand, the average violent attack begins and.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
Ends in seven seconds. Seven seconds.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
So you know, even if they were a policeman right
outside the door, right you've got to do something for
a few seconds to protect yourself, right. And so now
that that problem has been exacerbated drastically, we've actually seen
dozens of police departments close their doors forever.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
They don't anymore, they've gone out of business.
Speaker 4 (26:02):
It's hard to even imagine that, but it's true that
I was just with a former chief trainer for the
City of Pittsburgh PD.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Great department.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
They don't have any policemen in several of their stations
for several hours every single night. The police station itself
is closed, incredible because they can't staff it.
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Right.
Speaker 4 (26:19):
So we saw this immediate reaction in lack of recruiting,
lack of retention, right, and that is going to have
not only an immediate effect. Like myself, I retired earlier
than I thought I was going to. I loved every
second of my job, and then I saw what happened
at Lafayette Park. I was there with our you know,
all my federal partners, like, oh my god, thirty years
(26:40):
in law enforcement could be over in the blink of
an eye. And you know, candidly, I had very little
confidence that the the FBI was going to stand behind
me if there was an incident there, and so it
was time to retire, and me and thousands of other
experienced officers made the decision to retire, so that experience
went out the door. At the same time with no
one wants to be a policeman anymore. It's a dangerous
(27:03):
job that doesn't pay well.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
I just want to add something to what Rob said.
Speaker 3 (27:07):
I don't mean to interrupt, but in Los Angeles they
lost three police officers in an explosion the other day.
And the three police officers they lost combined over ninety
five years of policing experience. So what Rob is saying,
when a police officer retires right because he's concerned the
community doesn't have his back, You're not just losing a body,
(27:28):
You're losing somebody who has had.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
All those years of experience. Think about the wealth of
his experience.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
That book, All of that came from this brain over
here that has experienced all of this. You lose that
off the street gone. The impact of one officer is
so much bigger than one officer.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
He is Leland Conway, You remember that voice. Rob Chadwick.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Also great information and studio here of the book The
Practical Guide to Personal Security. Become a competent and confident
stakeholder in your own safety will conclude after this final
time out, and I just love how Rob put this
in the previous break. You know, you have a balanced breakfast,
meaning you have a lot of different options at your disposal.
Maybe they're non lethal, maybe those are effective, but you
(28:07):
have to know the limitations of those non lethal options
and arm yourself if you're comfortable doing it, Train yourself,
get prepared to be your own best first source of defense.
Ryan Shooting Live concludes after this shoe bring back Leland
and there are the nine exclamation points.
Speaker 2 (28:29):
I guess it's going to happen now. Whoa so much
so that.
Speaker 1 (28:32):
We brought back the smashing pumpkins? Thanks for that, ZI thought.
Those are the moments we were talking about during the break.
You just can't predict them. In radio, Leland, will you
show Ryan how to do drunk kamala? I think, oh, yeah,
that was one of your bits. I think, yeah, but
you helped me with that. It was glad that was together.
That was that was a Conway Shooting production. Fashold Yeah,
(28:56):
uh ask Leland. We're in eleven mile Reservoir. Did he
drop his guns? I'm a scuba diver. I want to
look for them.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Ah, Okay, yeah, they're gonna need some WD forty when
they come out of there.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
All right, time for.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
God for a Jerry Springer final thought with Rob Chadwick.
He is the author The Practical Guide to Personal Security.
Become a competent and confident stakeholder in your own safety.
You can find that on Amazon. That was just published July. I.
I just noticed that, Rob, So plug your book one
more time. Whatever you want to say in these final
couple of minutes, I appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
The reason I wrote the book was was honestly to
de romanticize right self defense, de romanticize the gun culture.
Speaker 2 (29:35):
Like we see so much about Hollywood and all that.
Speaker 4 (29:38):
There's a lot in there that is it's not meant
to persuade, it's not meant to dissuade, it's meant to inform. Yeah,
so you can make your own decision about how you
want to best protect yourself. But the most important thing
is make the decision to protect yourself. You cannot afford
to outsource your personal security. I love the police. I'm
a massive law enforcement supporter. I've got many relatives all
(30:00):
on the job. I'm not knocking them they cannot be
everywhere all the time, and especially not now where their
most departments are thirty percent understaffed. I think there was
a in the White House press conference today thirty thousand
officers short nationally.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (30:14):
And so that leads directly to your personal security wherever
you live. You have to have a plan. It doesn't
have to be complicated. Just one it could happen. Two
what am I going to do? And three commit to
it even if others aren't right. We always see, you know,
something happens and there's a crowd. Everyone looks around. Who
else is doing something? No one's moving? Be that person,
(30:36):
take action, Be the one to break the mold and
head away. Put time and distance regardless, always put time
and distance between you and whatever trouble is developing. That's
never a bad plan. If you're wrong, no big deal. Yeah,
you give yourself the grace of that. It could be
embarrassing who cares.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
But if you're right, could make all the difference in
the world.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
Situational awareness leland. People are excited that you're back. If
they're interested in maybe taking one of your courses, signing
up for this, getting that journey started, Where should they go?
Speaker 2 (31:02):
What should they do.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
Yeah, and go to USCCA dot com. Up in the
left hand corners is the thing for training. Put in
your zip code. It'll tell you.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
Where all the free classes are. All right, what a
moment you guys got to come back. Appreciate you brother,
if you're back in town, Rob, especially if you come back,
thank you. Love to have you back in such great
information for our listeners and it's always good welcoming back.
Leland Conway. Rob Chadwick author One More Time, Love you too, brother.
You can find it on Amazon. Just publish. The Practical
Guide to Personal Security. Become a competent and confident stakeholder
(31:31):
in your own safety, written by Rob Chadwick
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