Weld County Sheriff Steve Reams joins Ryan after Colorado attorney general Phil Weiser subtly inserted his office into the ridiculous Ephraim Debisa 'competency' case, an issue that has become a national embarrassment for the state of Colorado after a bipartisan bill became law, creating massive loopholes for defendants to avoid standing trial.
What is Weiser up to and why is his office refusing comment after making a surprise appearance at Debisa's latest hearing? Sheriff Reams offers his theory and perspective on the matter.
Colorado Attorney General's Office requests to be involved with Ephriam Debisa's latest case - CBS Colorado
George Brauchler, 23rd district attorney joins Ryan to discuss yet another instance of Colorado criminal justice favoring the 'criminals' over the 'justice' portion of the equation. Judge Victoria Klingensmith is taking heat for her decision to sentence a convicted stalker to probation, despite him repeatedly violating restraining orders issued on behalf of his former fiancée.
DougCo judge under fire for probation decisions in high-risk assault case
What is Weiser up to and why is his office refusing comment after making a surprise appearance at Debisa's latest hearing? Sheriff Reams offers his theory and perspective on the matter.
Colorado Attorney General's Office requests to be involved with Ephriam Debisa's latest case - CBS Colorado
George Brauchler, 23rd district attorney joins Ryan to discuss yet another instance of Colorado criminal justice favoring the 'criminals' over the 'justice' portion of the equation. Judge Victoria Klingensmith is taking heat for her decision to sentence a convicted stalker to probation, despite him repeatedly violating restraining orders issued on behalf of his former fiancée.
DougCo judge under fire for probation decisions in high-risk assault case
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
A main charge with trespassing and possession of a gun
on UNC's campus.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Appeared in court this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Ephrank de Visa appeared in for a bond hearing today,
but by the end of the hearing there were requests
to suppress information for other officers to get involved in.
That hearing was eventually postponed to next month. We've reported
on de Visa for the past few weeks as previous
cases exposed a loophole in state law. That loophole allows
people deemed incompetant to stay on trial, to be set
(00:28):
free and have their charges dropped even if they don't
qualify for civil commitment. There have been calls for a
special session, and now all eyes are on this newest
case to see what happens to that suspect. Your reporter
in Northern Colorado, Dylan Thomas, has been following this story
for US and joins US live tonight.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So Dylan, we know this is a complicated case, but
what happened today in court.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
This afternoon for m Debisa walked into this courthouse behind me,
shackled and in an Orange Weld County jumpsuit, facing new charges.
But you might recall just a matter of weeks ago,
he was released on charges of attempted murder, charges which
he was found incompetent to stand trial for now, his
case has made local and national headlines, something both his
(01:14):
attorney and the Attorney General's office appear to have taken
note of. Monday for Himdbisa was before a judge for
a bond hearing on his latest arrest last week, when
he was allegedly trespassing on the UNC campus with a firearm.
You may recall Debisa was released from jail and his
attempted murder charge earlier this month against the wishes of
the local prosecutor and the sheriff, after falling through a
(01:37):
crack in the state law which says those found incompetent
to stand trial and also unable to receive civil commitment
to mental health care must be released. Since our reporting started,
there has been a concern from the sheriff, district attorney,
and many in the community that Dabisa is viewed as
a threat to the community. His background includes accusations of
attempted murder, armed robbery, and even a high speed chase,
(01:59):
but state law allowed him to be free.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
In an exclusive interview with CBS News, Colorado from his
jail cell. He told us he was innocent and being
framed for political reasons. Well, Monday afternoon, his attorney asked
the judge to suppress information and the case due to
the national attention it has grabbed. And then suddenly, an
attorney from the Colorado Attorney General's Office unexpectedly asked to
speak to the judge. In an otherwise uncommon move, the
(02:23):
AG's office asked to get involved, requesting the courts to
release competency evaluations of the past and future so they
can evaluate what options are best for DEBISA moving forward,
and it seems as if the judge wasn't expecting this move,
asking that Attorney's General's Office representative to spell her name
and even provide her AG I should say her attorney
(02:46):
number as well. We reached out to the AG's office
asking why they're trying to get involved in this case now,
and they call. They wrote us back and said quote
no comment, end quote. Bond was kept at one million
dollars today and they were be reconvening late next month
for another hearing. Reporting live in Weld County, Dylan Thomas
covering Colorado first.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
Dylan Thomas has done an excellent job at CBS for Colorado.
I'll make sure that we mentioned these reporters by name
that are doing their jobs in the mainstream media. Vicente
Arenas is another one for Fox thirty one, and we'll
get to him in just a little bit on a
different case, in a different matter. But it was Vicente,
of course, who originally reported on the trendyar Rodwood gang
activity commandeering apartment complexes in Aurora Edgett Lowry Apartments, finally
(03:32):
getting the story told of Cindy and ed Ra Merrow
after their video went viral showing exactly what was happening,
after they had been ignored by Aurora PD on multiple occasions,
after Kyle Clark at nine News refused to even respond
to Sidney Romero after she initially reached.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Out to him.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
So the media that's doing its job, Dylan Thomas, CBS
News for deserves credit. And there are a lot of
questions to be answered, the first of which I turned
my lonely eyes and ears to a sheriff of World County.
Steve Riems frequent guest on this program pill and host
for Dan Kaplis, and he joins us now on Ryan
Schuling Live Sheriff, thank you for your time.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
As always, that's my pleasure.
Speaker 6 (04:09):
Right is a framed Abisa innocent and merely being held
for political reasons as he claims.
Speaker 7 (04:17):
Well, that's about the farthest thing from the truth. But
I think it also shows you that his quote unquote
incompetency rulings probably don't have a lot of merit if
he can put together that kind of you know, argument
for himself. No, he's not a political prisoner. He is
being held because he brought up firearm, an Air fifteen
(04:37):
style weapon, onto the UNC campus and he's scared a
whole bunch of kids.
Speaker 6 (04:42):
A frame de visa Dabisia frame. We've discussed with her
his names that way or the other way. We know
that records from his home country aren't exactly reliable. In
any case, probably shouldn't be in the country, and that's
a totally different matter altogether.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Should be eligible for deportation. Maybe that comes that had
later date.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
But Sheriff, I want to hone in on the details
that you and I discussed off air via text about
the Attorney General's office and let's name him. Also a
candidate for governor on the Democratic side, Phil Wiser inserting
themselves into this case, doing so, in my view, in
cloak and dagger fashion.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Kind of trying to stay quiet, stay under the radar. Hey,
we might want to do something with this sneaking into.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
This hearing and then causing that interaction some drama in
this case.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
As you survey this from your.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
Vantage point as the sheriff in Weld County, what is
the AG's office up to here?
Speaker 7 (05:37):
Well, Ryan, I don't know for sure, but the best
I can put together with all this is the Attorney
General's Office is basically the legal arm that oversees are
the interacts with the courts for the state mental hospital.
So the lady who injected herself into that hearing would
be the person who is likely trying to figure out,
(05:57):
as they're a route here to determine something past the
mental competency issues, is there some kind of way that
they can get a mental help hold on this individual.
The way I look at it is, no matter what
comes out of this, it's a win because either they
say all right, we messed up and he needs to
be in the state hospital, or they come forward and say, yeah,
(06:19):
the people that are doing these evaluations to say that
he was incompetent, were incompetent, So one way or another,
we're going to get I mean, if they're doing their
job and trying to quote unquote defend their actions from
the past, I think it's only going to shed a
light on where these giant holes are in the systems
if they're honest. But this effort doesn't look real above
(06:41):
board in my opinion.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
And I got a little bit more on that in
just a moment Weld County's Sheriff, Steve Reims joining us something.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
That really stuck in my cross.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Sheriff from what we just heard in that report, and
I'm blaming Dylan Thomas for this, but maybe it's the
AG's office themselves. They were concerned, sheriff with what was
in the best interests of from THEBISA. I don't give
one blank about his best interests at the moment, as
I'm sure many of your constituent's residents, the people that
you protect and serve in World County, don't give one
(07:12):
blank about him. I care about the people that the
World County Sheriff's office is trying to protect from this individual.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Why do we have it backwards here?
Speaker 7 (07:22):
Well, you know, I question that every year when the
state legislature convenes, because we forget more and more about
citizens and victims' rights. And when I say we, the
state legislature, you know, they lean heavily into trying to
figure out how to make victims out of the people
that are actually the criminals, you know, like they're the
victims of the criminal justice system. They are victims of
(07:43):
their own action. I mean, they've broken the law, they violated,
you know, our rights as citizens, and they deserve to
be in the jails and prisons where they're at. The
visa is no different.
Speaker 8 (07:56):
You know.
Speaker 7 (07:57):
I'll give credit to whoever his first public defender was
to be able to get this incompetency evaluation lodged for him,
but it's carried forward and you know, right wrong or indifferent,
it's not been in the interest of public safety. And
I mean that interview from Dylan Thomas, if anybody's watched
it or listened to it just now, it tells you
(08:17):
everything you need to know. I Mean, he spouts off
that he's being framed. He spouts off that he just
needs a chance to tell his side of the story.
That's not a person who's incompetent of understanding the situation
that they're in.
Speaker 6 (08:32):
Earlier, in that report from CBS for Colorado Sheriff Steve
reams our guest, I heard something again that was a
trip wire for me, and that was this notion that
the AG's office knows that this is a problem not
just politically but from a public safety standpoint. And you
and I have had these conversations both on Aaron Off
(08:53):
Sheriff about the fact that I haven't gotten an explanation
that has held much water or carried much mustard, at
least for us, the public, the citizens of Colorado, as
to why any Republican constitutional you know, would vote on
this competency loophole to support it along with Democrats. The
(09:14):
fact that every Democrat voted for it should have been
the warning signal to all Republicans maybe we should back
up on this one. There were some Republicans who voted
against it, but now we see the after effects of this,
which I think anybody looking around the corners could have
saw ahead of time, Representative Brandy Bradley being one of
those who I've discussed this matter with. My more basic question, though, Sheriff,
(09:37):
is if the AG's Office knows this is the problem.
This is a loose end and we've got to tie
it up. Why don't they call for the special session
that many are clamoring for and get ahead of this.
Speaker 8 (09:51):
You know, Ryan, I.
Speaker 7 (09:52):
Wish I had an answer for that, because it just
seems like the logical thing to do. You know, I've
said many times, just start by repealing the law that
you enacted in twenty four, that the governor signed into
effect in twenty four. Just start with that, call a
special session and repeal that pilot crap, and then dive
back into the bigger issue and see if you can't
(10:14):
you clean up the system and make it actually work
for victims. But you'd have to want that to be
the outcome of the system in order to call for
that special session. And you know they don't want to
admit that they made a mistake. Nobody does, and quite honestly,
that's the best way to get the same fixed, to say,
make you have a.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Problem, Governor Polis.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
And to put it mildly, he's all hat and no cattle,
as the old expression goes. But he got real nervous
about the fact that Elon Musk called him out on
this very issue, on this individual a framed Abisa, and
he popped off, well, this.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Shouldn't be happening.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
You signed the bill and the law, Governor, and I
hate to sound like Franka Stanza here, but we're going
to go Festivus mode for a moment.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
He seemed to be very concerned.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
With the fact that a frame to Viisa was going
to be let go into the public sphere. Have you,
Sheriff Reems had a conversation of any kind, any communication
with the governor himself, the Governor's office, the AG's office,
anybody who claims to be concerned about this matter.
Speaker 7 (11:16):
No, they don't call me because they don't care about
my opinion. They know I'm very vocal and then I'll
call them out when I see failures, and so therefore
they just ignore me. And that's fine. I mean, they
they don't They don't have to call me. They don't
have to be respectful to the to the issue at hand.
But you know, being as I'm the sheriff that had
(11:39):
to release this guy into the community, well I've got
an investment in trying to help them fix the problem.
If they just if they just invite me to the table.
But that has not happened, and I don't foresee they will.
Speaker 6 (11:51):
Sheriff Steve Rings joining us now sheriff as you've guest
hosted here and you and I have talked about topics
across the board, you know, Scott Jennings, CNN call this
and we've adapted it here, you know, being on the
wrong side of an eighty twenty issue.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
But I don't even know if the math is that much.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
In the Democrats favor their approval ratings going below twenty percent,
their stances on these issues, them dying on these hills
of like trans women, biological men in women's sports locker
room spaces, that they have to play this losing hand.
Then they're playing it out when they should be folding
and maybe kind of cutting their losses.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
They're not. This would be one, This would be one.
Ephraim Debiza, Solomon Gallagan.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
We're a joke nationwide here in Colorado because of this loophole.
I'm infuriated by it because there were Republicans that supported
this madness. So I'm let me put that aside for
a moment. So that's a losing issue. Crime in Colorado. Criminals,
the interest of criminals. We just heard it in this story.
What is you Fraimed Deviesa's prest interest.
Speaker 7 (12:48):
Don't care.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
And on the other side of another issue, Pete Hegseth,
Secretary of Wars.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
It's now called talking.
Speaker 6 (12:55):
About this today, and the reason I wanted to bring
it up with you, Sheriff, is because I think it
impacts our public servants as well here at home that
protect us domestically, whether it be our police or a firefighters.
Here's what Secretary Hegseth had to say, with physical fitness
and appearance.
Speaker 9 (13:11):
If the Secretary of War can do regular hard pt
so can every member of our joint force.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Frankly, it's tiring.
Speaker 9 (13:20):
To look out at combat formations or really any formation
and see fat troops. Likewise, it's completely unacceptable to see
fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon
and leading commands around the country in the world.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
It's a bad look. It is bad and it's not
who we are now. My grandpa's shooling a World War
two vet. My dad's dad, Sheriff would say that you
are built like a brick blank house. So take that
as a compliment as it is intended from him beyond,
But do you have two part question full confidence in
(13:53):
your Wild County Sheriff's Department, deputies, everybody on staff there
that's required to do physical tasks in the field.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Your lives around the line.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
You're protecting each other, you're protecting the public, You're protecting
the perpetrators from themselves in a lot of cases. Do
you have that confidence? And I think more importantly, have
you felt pressured to hire substandard employees based on DEI
woke boxes to be checked, So great question.
Speaker 7 (14:20):
When I took over as sheriff, we had a fitness
standard in place, but it really had no teeth to it,
and I said, you know, we're going to change that.
So we have a fitness standard that applies equally across
the board, and it's not geared towards male or female.
It's geared towards your ability to do the job, and
you take that test annually. There's other circumstances where you
(14:43):
may have to take at mid year. Let's say, if
you're out for a a long period of time and
you come back to work, then we can invoke the
needs for you to go through the fitness standard to
make sure you're fit for duty. Everybody must pass it.
If they don't pass it they don't work as a
deputy anymore. And we've had a few that you know,
through the years, have said, you know, this is probably
not the job for me anymore, and that's a smart decision.
(15:04):
I wholeheartedly stand by that fitness standard because the last
thing that can happen is if you call nine one
one and the deputy shows up your door and you
have to render aid to the deputy. Well, that's not
doing anybody any good. So we need our people to
be able to do their job. And to the other
point on the DEI stuff, no, I don't feel any
pressure for that because I don't put any merit in
(15:25):
that stuff. Again, I believe in your ability to do
the job. And if I don't care what you necessarily
look like, what's your sexual preferences, I care if you
can get the job done and do it in the
best way possible. And you know, I say, oftentimes our
agency looks like a crayon box. We've got people of
all backgrounds, but the one commonality they have with each
(15:48):
other is they can get the job done, and that's
because it's merit based.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Awesome Well.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
County Sheriff Steve Reim's final point here as I know,
you're riding off into the sunset of shriff, but your
life in the public sphere is not done as you're
running for Weld County Commissioner.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
So I just want to get your take.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
On this, Steve, apart from your sheriff's role, as to
what happened this past Saturday. You and I have been
talking about this too at the Central State Committee meeting
and the voting onto whether the primary should be closed
or done away with altogether, whether our candidates on the
Republican side should be chosen in some back room by
party elites. What is your read on what happened Saturday
(16:25):
and where do we go from here?
Speaker 7 (16:28):
Well, what happened Saturday was it was just shameful, to
be honest with you, and it's the the evolution of
the party. And I don't mean that towards any side
of the argument. There's people who want to opt out
of the primary, there's people who want to stay in
the primary. The issue is we've lost stability, we have
lost ability to have normal discourse, and quite honestly, the
leadership group, they didn't do themselves any favors by pontificating
(16:53):
from the stage. I mean it was just a very
poor display of what we need. It was a poor
display in a time where we need to figure out
how to find some commonality. I think the part that's
tough with people is many of the voters, myself included, say,
you know, I would rather not have unaffiliated people interacting
in our Republican primary or the Democrat primary. I think,
(17:16):
if you're going to play in a primary, if you're
going to vote in a primary, you should have to declare,
you know, your allegiance to one of those parties. That's
not the way the system allows in Colorado. So the
fix to that, and I say that in air quotes
for the Republicans, is to say, well, we'll just opt
out of the primary and we basically won't have one.
We'll pick our candidates at the state Assembly or at
the county assemblies. And I'm fine with that process too,
(17:39):
It's just not what I would prefer. And so when
we put it out to a vote, I would prefer
not to do that. I would prefer to give people
the option of a primary, even if that means unaffiliated
to playing it, because I want more people running for
public office, not less. And I say that, well, well,
going into an election, knowing I'm probably going to have
an opponent, but you know, iron sharp and iron.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
This is the theme from the commission and we want
him to be the next World County Commissioner.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Sheriff Steve Reams joining us. Aaron Ryan shielding live.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
A woman says she fears her family may be in
danger after a Douglas County judge sentence her former fiance
to probation.
Speaker 10 (18:20):
The district attorney in the case is upset, saying the
man convicted on three different counts should be behind bars
stocks Everyones.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Vicenta Arena spoke to the victim and joins us now
from the Douglas County Courthouse with her message tonight Vicente.
Speaker 10 (18:32):
Christine Aubrey Hadwill told us today she was dismayed and
infuriated over this probation sentence, and she now says she's.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Living in fear.
Speaker 10 (18:42):
There is The case centers on this video of what
the twenty third Judicial District DA says helped lead to
the conviction of a man for assaulting and stalking his
former fiancee. The DA says officers can be seen tracking
down Taylor Wayne Burrows in Highland's ranch. The victim says
the man from Lakewood began stalking her and violating a
(19:05):
restraint order several times, and at one time he even
threw rocks at her window. She told us she was
scared and angry after the probation sentence was handed down,
dis spleef and anger.
Speaker 11 (19:19):
I don't even know what else to feel about it
at this point. It's extremely infuriating that he is just
free to walk among us because Judge Victoria kling and
Smith decided that he needed to work on his mental
health and work on his own demons.
Speaker 10 (19:37):
The victim and the prosecutors say they both asked that
the thirty one year old of Lakewood spend time behind bars.
District Attorney George Brockler says judges use sentencing guidelines set
by state lawmakers. The victim had hoped Burrows would spend
several years behind bars.
Speaker 12 (19:58):
The judge referred him to two separate community corrections boards
and two separate jurisdictions.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
They both rejected.
Speaker 12 (20:04):
Him that leaves prison, and the judge found a different alternative,
which was to return him to our communities.
Speaker 10 (20:11):
We have reached out to the judge in the case,
Victoria Klingensmith, for a response through an email and a voicemail.
Burrow's attorney, Marks a Voice, said the court properly sentenced
mister Burrows after a thorough review of all relevant information.
She did what any judge with integrity would do. She
(20:32):
placed mister Burrows on probation with meaningful supervision after he
had already served nineteen months in jail. Brockler says the
sentence in this case could impact the willingness of other
victims experiencing similar violence to come forward out of what
Cadwell has this message.
Speaker 11 (20:51):
Keep working through it, keep working through it. It will
be worth it in the end. Whether or not it
turns out the way that you want, you can also
live your life the way that you want.
Speaker 10 (21:03):
We still have not heard back from the judge in
this case. If we get a response, we'll be posting
it on our website kadibr dot com at the Douglas
County Justice Center.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Cassiar Rock were sent to Ada Spox thirty.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
One simply my numbing I mean, this is the common
threat as we go back to a framed de visa
with Sheriff Steve Orensweld County.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Why the judges are so concerned.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
With the rehabilitation the well being, what's best for this perpetrator, who, actually,
if you think about it, is a victim in our
criminal justice system. Won't you somebody think about the criminals.
This is where we're at, folks, and I'm going to
try to put a fine point on it with the
aforementioned George Brockler, twenty third District Attorney, joining us here
(21:45):
on Ryan Schuling Live.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
George, thank you as always for your time.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
Hey, thanks for.
Speaker 7 (21:50):
Giving me some time to chat with you.
Speaker 8 (21:51):
Man, I'm sorry I miss Steve on the I was
in a meeting and I and then I heard Steve
was on the radio, and I thought, man, there's nothing
better than hearing Steve whale away at some other thing.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
Well you joining forces with him to co host the
Dan Kaplis Show is one of the highlights of my career.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
And I don't say that lightly.
Speaker 7 (22:07):
And I hope that's so nice.
Speaker 8 (22:10):
One set the bar a little higher too. Let's do
it again.
Speaker 6 (22:13):
That's what I'm hoping for is an encore and a sequel.
Now what the sequel I'm not hoping for. But George,
I'm just gonna plainly state it because so many of
us out here, you know, we live with great sheriffs
like Darren Weakley. They're in Doug co or Steve Reamswild
County with a great prosecutor like yourself. And I don't
say that lightly either, but you can only do so much.
(22:34):
And I am concerned about these habitual offenders, repeat offenders
like this person, this individual violating a restraining order, assault stalking.
What is it going to take? Efrian Debza shows up
in a University of Northern Colorado dorm room with an
assault rifle as some people might tournament, a gun that
(22:55):
he shouldn't have on campus.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Is it going to take.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
An individual killing the person from whom should be protected
by from this person?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I don't understand what the judge's logic is here.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
He needs to reflect and he needs to really address
himself and maybe put himself through therapy.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I don't understand this at all. Please help me.
Speaker 8 (23:18):
It's tough then, and I think the answer to your
question is likely Yes, it's usually not until something horrible happens.
But that alone won't do it. It's something horrible happens
and the media brings attention to it, because bad things
happen all the time. Where judges make mistakes. Remember at
every sentencing to probation or community corrections or anything in
(23:40):
between is a bit of a fingers crossed guess. It
just is, especially when you have recommendations, as we have
in this case from just about everybody except the defendant himself,
that the dude should fay some type of incarceration. You
are rolling the dice. The problem is you're rolling the
public's dice because your mistakes won't come back to haunt
you as a judge. That's why it usually takes something
(24:03):
horrific that catches the media's eye to bring some sort
of change. The problem that we see in Colorado here, Ryan,
and you talk about it every day on the show
in one way or another, is that we have had
so many consecutive years of elitist, progressive dominated government at
the state level, legislature and otherwise. We've watered down the laws,
(24:25):
We've created disincentives for putting people in prison. We're dealing
with right now, I can't remember if you mentioned this.
We're dealing with emergency releases of prisoners prior to the
conclusion of their prison sentences. Because the state started with Hickenlooper,
state started shutting down prisons, and then as the prison
population grew, they cried, oh my gosh, prison overcrowding. It's like, yeah,
(24:49):
you created the overcrowding and they created this mechanism. That's
just one example. The other is we can't get this
legislature to agree to man to Tory prison for anything,
especially like child rapists. And the reason for that is
they don't want people to be incarcerated and they want
to trust judges to make the right decisions. And by
(25:11):
and large, I think judges do a good job with
the information they have, but you give them enough discretion
and you start getting outcomes like this.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
Well, I want more people in prison. What do I
mean by that? George, And I know you agree with
this as a prosecutor too. I want bad guys and
gals in prison. I want them out and removed from society.
I don't mean it's called corrections, but let's be clear,
that's just nomenclature. And whether or not an individual can
be reformed, that's debatable. But there needs to be truth
and sentencing. There needs to be punishment for crimes committed.
(25:42):
That needs to serve as a deterrent to the public
to show if you do X, you will do YZ.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
In terms of forms of time. I think of Solomon Gallagan.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
But for the crafty moves of a fifth grader at
recess in broad daylight at an elementary school on a
playground to a spe from that mad man would have
been kidnapped, raped, killed, who knows, but that individual was
at least back out in the public.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
George, this is a national embarrassment.
Speaker 6 (26:11):
It's been on Laura Ingram, Fox News Newsmax continuously. And
the question I have for Colorado legislatures, including some Republicans,
is why is it only happening it seems on the
national scale here in Colorado, and we're not hearing about
this in other states. We're broken, my friend, the competency thing,
(26:32):
which I think you've rightly pointed out, this was a
bipartisan failure in terms of legislation. But the only side
of this equation that has come forward to say, hang on,
hang on, we need to change this because we should
not have a system in place that automatically dismisses charge
it charges, and automatically puts people out on the street
(26:52):
when they've committed some pretty serious crimes just because they've
been declared incompetent. That needs to have its own special session.
Speaker 8 (26:59):
We're not going to get that. My guess is it
won't truly change in the legislature. But I'm proud of
Barb Kirkmeyer for bringing it to the forefront and keep
beating that drum. The other part that you said, and
this is important language for people to listen to truth
and sentencing. There is no truth in sentencing in Colorado
unless you are sentenced to life without parole. That is
(27:21):
the only sentence for which you know exactly what you're getting.
So here's the big, bold hot take I'm going to have.
If you look at what makes the federal system work,
they don't do parole. What they tell you is, you
get sentenced to ten years in the Department of Corrections,
you're going to in the Bureau of Prisons. You're going
to prison for ten years. You can earn your way
(27:43):
back to like ninety or eighty five percent, but that's it.
I think Colorado ought to have a serious conversation about
doing away with parole because it has jacked up our
sentencing structures such that you get someone sentenced on a
non crime of violence to twelve years in the Department
of the Maximum. Let's say have the hicular homicide. That
(28:03):
cat is going to be parole eligible at four years
or less. That makes no sense.
Speaker 6 (28:11):
Final question on this issue, George, and this is Tom
Mustin informing me that you are scheduled to have a
meeting with the judge and the case that we led
the segment with. Not sure how much you can tell
us about that, but what is your goal going into
that meeting?
Speaker 8 (28:25):
Yeah, and it's not really a meeting just about that.
I mean, we have regular meetings. It was just a
topic that I think that we'd probably talk about this
in all their cases. I mean, part of the goal
here with any judicial district is you have all these
different players, none of whom have the same mission, and
so where you know, it's important that we keep lanes
of communication open and not just like with me and Darren,
(28:47):
it's easy because we're pretty much on the same side
of the coin and we do pretty much the same
kinds of things. But with like the public defenders, like
their job. They have a very specific mission, and their
mission is to really try to minimize the consequences. At
its core, minimize the consequences for their clients, and they
do that by protecting their constitutional rights. Okay, I get
(29:08):
that that's how we have an adversary system. Judges, and
this case is a good example. They don't exist to
rubber stamp my recommendations or anyone else's. They're empowered by
the law to make certain decisions, and sometimes when those
decisions are contrary to the things that we seek, we
get out and talk about it in public, because, by God,
transparency actually matters in a democracy. But the key is
(29:29):
to never let those things become the kinds of personal
tension points that could create problems down the road. And
so this isn't about just the specific case, but we
have routine and regular meetings all the time to talk
about all sorts of things procedure, policy, and with this one,
you know, this is probably one where it's just good
(29:52):
to have a conversation about, like, listen, when these things
happen in the future, how are we going to talk
about them, how are we going to deal with them,
How are we going to encourage each other to keep
this process moving forward? Because I got to tell you,
compared to other jurisdictions, I think we have the best
system going right now, between the judges, the public defenders,
the share of the DA I think we're going as
(30:13):
smoothly as you can do that, and I just think
if meetings will help us keep that going, I'm all in.
Speaker 6 (30:19):
We'll keep tabs on the results and products of that
meeting and hopefully it's fruitful. George Brockler, twenty third District
Attorney joining us. Final note here, George, because I've been
seeing you take some slings arrows and heat online for
your vote. With regard to the Central State Committee meeting
on Saturday, there is a big dust up hubbub. I
talked to Valdemar Archiletta about it about whether or not
(30:39):
we're going to have primaries going forward, whether or not
those primaries are going to be closed, whether or not
we're going to pump that all together and select candidates
for the gop at An Assembly and that type of process.
Where do you stand on that and what would you
say is the resolution to what we're talking about in
terms of the problem here.
Speaker 8 (30:56):
Yeah, for the State Central Committee meeting, I had every
intention of going. I'd spoken with Michael Allen, the dievel
Passo and we were both going to go, but I
ended up having some daddy duties that pulled me away
from any availability in the area, and so I gave
my proxy to Representative Anthony Hartzuk, who's own not only
(31:16):
an Army veteran, but he's a representative and the husband
of a great friend, Colonel Plevna, And I monitored this
thing from afar like I'm texting these guys furiously, like
what's going on? What's going on? And when I heard
it devolved into some sort of this procedural name calling
obstructionist thing. Look, we need an outcome. We need an
(31:37):
answer to the question whether we're going to withdraw from
the primary. It's a high bar. Some say it's too
high of a bar. It doesn't matter what some say,
because that's what the loss is got to get, seventy
five percent. It doesn't sound like the people that want
us to withdraw from the primary were anywhere near seventy
five percent. So it turned into this other thing. Big
picture is this, I want Republicans voting for a public
(32:00):
I don't want people who aren't invested enough in our
party to be part of it to get to say
who our standard bearer is. I don't think that's fair.
The problem is that ain't on the table. The two
options are the current system, which is the primary system,
which for all of its faults, just happens to provide
ballots to every single registered Republican out there who can vote.
(32:22):
And the alternative that we're being offered is, Hey, let's
take a couple thousand people that can bend their schedules
over the course of three or four separate weekends and
events to come to an event center somewhere and pick
our candidates and cut off the rest of those Republicans.
No thank you. I mean, I don't want an affiliated
is voting in our primary either, but you don't have
(32:44):
that option. You get one of two things, and no
thank you. I don't want the fifteen hundred to two
thousand people picking it for every other Republican out there.
I'd rather take what we have, speak to the broader audience,
and let me tell you why that works. I'll give
you a quick example, Ryan. In my particular race for
district attorney, I was primaried. I had someone that went
through the assembly. I did not. I got into the
(33:04):
race way late. I did not go through the assembly.
I petitioned on and I got to tell you how
it turned out. We went door to door, we expanded
our outreach everywhere because we knew we needed more Republican
votes than just the Assembly. We doubled up our opponent
in terms of votes on the primary. At the end
of the general election, we had had more votes for
(33:26):
this campaign than any other campaign in the history of
Douglas County for any any contested office at any level federal, state, local,
Nobody has gotten more votes in our campaign. Now, if
it's true that going through this primary process that allows
unaffiliated somehow gives us weak milk toast candidates less popular,
(33:47):
I don't know how that. How can how you can
say that given that Michael Allen, same thing, dude ended
up petitioning on one of the highest vote getters on
the ballot. There's a reason why this system has the
potential to be successful. I think the problem is it
requires Republicans to get out there and do the old
school knocking on doors, and these guys don't want to
do it. They want to be keyboard warriors and sit
(34:08):
around in a gymnasium somewhere or an event center and
dictate the future of the party. I don't think that's
a formula for success.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
George Brockler, twenty third District Attorney, joining us and always
generous with his time.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
George, Thanks, we'll talk again soon.
Speaker 7 (34:21):
Thanks bad thanks for having me.
Speaker 6 (34:25):
Good text to close out on here on Ryan Shuling
Live five and seven, three nine, Ryan, why do we
treat these career criminals like there's something special, like they're
going to eventually turn it around and be a benefit
to our society instead of a detriment.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Maybe I'm just cynical, but if you've been.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
Arrested ten plus times, you're just a bad apple, and
there's a ninety nine percent chance.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
That that's not gonna change. Well, said Texter. Couldn't agree more.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
It's a criminal justice system. Justice sometimes comes in the
form of sentencing and should crime and punishment. You're not
there just to be going through a system of corrections
and maybe rehabilitation. The punishment fit the crime, and it
must serve as a signal and a detriment to others
from committing that same crime. That'll do it for me
(35:07):
from here for now, Stay tuned. The Dan Caplis Show
is next. My thanks to Sheriff Steve Eames, George Brockler,
and Charlie Sparing for joining me today on Ryan Schruling Live.
A main charge with trespassing and possession of a gun
on UNC's campus.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Appeared in court this afternoon.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Ephrank de Visa appeared in for a bond hearing today,
but by the end of the hearing there were requests
to suppress information for other officers to get involved in.
That hearing was eventually postponed to next month. We've reported
on de Visa for the past few weeks as previous
cases exposed a loophole in state law. That loophole allows
people deemed incompetant to stay on trial, to be set
(00:28):
free and have their charges dropped even if they don't
qualify for civil commitment. There have been calls for a
special session, and now all eyes are on this newest
case to see what happens to that suspect. Your reporter
in Northern Colorado, Dylan Thomas, has been following this story
for US and joins US live tonight.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
So Dylan, we know this is a complicated case, but
what happened today in court.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
This afternoon for m Debisa walked into this courthouse behind me,
shackled and in an Orange Weld County jumpsuit, facing new charges.
But you might recall just a matter of weeks ago,
he was released on charges of attempted murder, charges which
he was found incompetent to stand trial for now, his
case has made local and national headlines, something both his
(01:14):
attorney and the Attorney General's office appear to have taken
note of. Monday for Himdbisa was before a judge for
a bond hearing on his latest arrest last week, when
he was allegedly trespassing on the UNC campus with a firearm.
You may recall Debisa was released from jail and his
attempted murder charge earlier this month against the wishes of
the local prosecutor and the sheriff, after falling through a
(01:37):
crack in the state law which says those found incompetent
to stand trial and also unable to receive civil commitment
to mental health care must be released. Since our reporting started,
there has been a concern from the sheriff, district attorney,
and many in the community that Dabisa is viewed as
a threat to the community. His background includes accusations of
attempted murder, armed robbery, and even a high speed chase,
(01:59):
but state law allowed him to be free.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
In an exclusive interview with CBS News, Colorado from his
jail cell. He told us he was innocent and being
framed for political reasons. Well, Monday afternoon, his attorney asked
the judge to suppress information and the case due to
the national attention it has grabbed. And then suddenly, an
attorney from the Colorado Attorney General's Office unexpectedly asked to
speak to the judge. In an otherwise uncommon move, the
(02:23):
AG's office asked to get involved, requesting the courts to
release competency evaluations of the past and future so they
can evaluate what options are best for DEBISA moving forward,
and it seems as if the judge wasn't expecting this move,
asking that Attorney's General's Office representative to spell her name
and even provide her AG I should say her attorney
(02:46):
number as well. We reached out to the AG's office
asking why they're trying to get involved in this case now,
and they call. They wrote us back and said quote
no comment, end quote. Bond was kept at one million
dollars today and they were be reconvening late next month
for another hearing. Reporting live in Weld County, Dylan Thomas
covering Colorado first.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
Dylan Thomas has done an excellent job at CBS for Colorado.
I'll make sure that we mentioned these reporters by name
that are doing their jobs in the mainstream media. Vicente
Arenas is another one for Fox thirty one, and we'll
get to him in just a little bit on a
different case, in a different matter. But it was Vicente,
of course, who originally reported on the trendyar Rodwood gang
activity commandeering apartment complexes in Aurora Edgett Lowry Apartments, finally
(03:32):
getting the story told of Cindy and ed Ra Merrow
after their video went viral showing exactly what was happening,
after they had been ignored by Aurora PD on multiple occasions,
after Kyle Clark at nine News refused to even respond
to Sidney Romero after she initially reached.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Out to him.
Speaker 6 (03:48):
So the media that's doing its job, Dylan Thomas, CBS
News for deserves credit. And there are a lot of
questions to be answered, the first of which I turned
my lonely eyes and ears to a sheriff of World County.
Steve Riems frequent guest on this program pill and host
for Dan Kaplis, and he joins us now on Ryan
Schuling Live Sheriff, thank you for your time.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
As always, that's my pleasure.
Speaker 6 (04:09):
Right is a framed Abisa innocent and merely being held
for political reasons as he claims.
Speaker 7 (04:17):
Well, that's about the farthest thing from the truth. But
I think it also shows you that his quote unquote
incompetency rulings probably don't have a lot of merit if
he can put together that kind of you know, argument
for himself. No, he's not a political prisoner. He is
being held because he brought up firearm, an Air fifteen
(04:37):
style weapon, onto the UNC campus and he's scared a
whole bunch of kids.
Speaker 6 (04:42):
A frame de visa Dabisia frame. We've discussed with her
his names that way or the other way. We know
that records from his home country aren't exactly reliable. In
any case, probably shouldn't be in the country, and that's
a totally different matter altogether.
Speaker 2 (04:57):
Should be eligible for deportation. Maybe that comes that had
later date.
Speaker 6 (05:00):
But Sheriff, I want to hone in on the details
that you and I discussed off air via text about
the Attorney General's office and let's name him. Also a
candidate for governor on the Democratic side, Phil Wiser inserting
themselves into this case, doing so, in my view, in
cloak and dagger fashion.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Kind of trying to stay quiet, stay under the radar. Hey,
we might want to do something with this sneaking into.
Speaker 6 (05:24):
This hearing and then causing that interaction some drama in
this case.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
As you survey this from your.
Speaker 6 (05:31):
Vantage point as the sheriff in Weld County, what is
the AG's office up to here?
Speaker 7 (05:37):
Well, Ryan, I don't know for sure, but the best
I can put together with all this is the Attorney
General's Office is basically the legal arm that oversees are
the interacts with the courts for the state mental hospital.
So the lady who injected herself into that hearing would
be the person who is likely trying to figure out,
(05:57):
as they're a route here to determine something past the
mental competency issues, is there some kind of way that
they can get a mental help hold on this individual.
The way I look at it is, no matter what
comes out of this, it's a win because either they
say all right, we messed up and he needs to
be in the state hospital, or they come forward and say, yeah,
(06:19):
the people that are doing these evaluations to say that
he was incompetent, were incompetent, So one way or another,
we're going to get I mean, if they're doing their
job and trying to quote unquote defend their actions from
the past, I think it's only going to shed a
light on where these giant holes are in the systems
if they're honest. But this effort doesn't look real above
(06:41):
board in my opinion.
Speaker 6 (06:42):
And I got a little bit more on that in
just a moment Weld County's Sheriff, Steve Reims joining us something.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
That really stuck in my cross.
Speaker 6 (06:50):
Sheriff from what we just heard in that report, and
I'm blaming Dylan Thomas for this, but maybe it's the
AG's office themselves. They were concerned, sheriff with what was
in the best interests of from THEBISA. I don't give
one blank about his best interests at the moment, as
I'm sure many of your constituent's residents, the people that
you protect and serve in World County, don't give one
(07:12):
blank about him. I care about the people that the
World County Sheriff's office is trying to protect from this individual.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
Why do we have it backwards here?
Speaker 7 (07:22):
Well, you know, I question that every year when the
state legislature convenes, because we forget more and more about
citizens and victims' rights. And when I say we, the
state legislature, you know, they lean heavily into trying to
figure out how to make victims out of the people
that are actually the criminals, you know, like they're the
victims of the criminal justice system. They are victims of
(07:43):
their own action. I mean, they've broken the law, they violated,
you know, our rights as citizens, and they deserve to
be in the jails and prisons where they're at. The
visa is no different.
Speaker 8 (07:56):
You know.
Speaker 7 (07:57):
I'll give credit to whoever his first public defender was
to be able to get this incompetency evaluation lodged for him,
but it's carried forward and you know, right wrong or indifferent,
it's not been in the interest of public safety. And
I mean that interview from Dylan Thomas, if anybody's watched
it or listened to it just now, it tells you
(08:17):
everything you need to know. I Mean, he spouts off
that he's being framed. He spouts off that he just
needs a chance to tell his side of the story.
That's not a person who's incompetent of understanding the situation
that they're in.
Speaker 6 (08:32):
Earlier, in that report from CBS for Colorado Sheriff Steve
reams our guest, I heard something again that was a
trip wire for me, and that was this notion that
the AG's office knows that this is a problem not
just politically but from a public safety standpoint. And you
and I have had these conversations both on Aaron Off
(08:53):
Sheriff about the fact that I haven't gotten an explanation
that has held much water or carried much mustard, at
least for us, the public, the citizens of Colorado, as
to why any Republican constitutional you know, would vote on
this competency loophole to support it along with Democrats. The
(09:14):
fact that every Democrat voted for it should have been
the warning signal to all Republicans maybe we should back
up on this one. There were some Republicans who voted
against it, but now we see the after effects of this,
which I think anybody looking around the corners could have
saw ahead of time, Representative Brandy Bradley being one of
those who I've discussed this matter with. My more basic question, though, Sheriff,
(09:37):
is if the AG's Office knows this is the problem.
This is a loose end and we've got to tie
it up. Why don't they call for the special session
that many are clamoring for and get ahead of this.
Speaker 8 (09:51):
You know, Ryan, I.
Speaker 7 (09:52):
Wish I had an answer for that, because it just
seems like the logical thing to do. You know, I've
said many times, just start by repealing the law that
you enacted in twenty four, that the governor signed into
effect in twenty four. Just start with that, call a
special session and repeal that pilot crap, and then dive
back into the bigger issue and see if you can't
(10:14):
you clean up the system and make it actually work
for victims. But you'd have to want that to be
the outcome of the system in order to call for
that special session. And you know they don't want to
admit that they made a mistake. Nobody does, and quite honestly,
that's the best way to get the same fixed, to say,
make you have a.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
Problem, Governor Polis.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
And to put it mildly, he's all hat and no cattle,
as the old expression goes. But he got real nervous
about the fact that Elon Musk called him out on
this very issue, on this individual a framed Abisa, and
he popped off, well, this.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
Shouldn't be happening.
Speaker 6 (10:49):
You signed the bill and the law, Governor, and I
hate to sound like Franka Stanza here, but we're going
to go Festivus mode for a moment.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
He seemed to be very concerned.
Speaker 6 (10:57):
With the fact that a frame to Viisa was going
to be let go into the public sphere. Have you,
Sheriff Reems had a conversation of any kind, any communication
with the governor himself, the Governor's office, the AG's office,
anybody who claims to be concerned about this matter.
Speaker 7 (11:16):
No, they don't call me because they don't care about
my opinion. They know I'm very vocal and then I'll
call them out when I see failures, and so therefore
they just ignore me. And that's fine. I mean, they
they don't They don't have to call me. They don't
have to be respectful to the to the issue at hand.
But you know, being as I'm the sheriff that had
(11:39):
to release this guy into the community, well I've got
an investment in trying to help them fix the problem.
If they just if they just invite me to the table.
But that has not happened, and I don't foresee they will.
Speaker 6 (11:51):
Sheriff Steve Rings joining us now sheriff as you've guest
hosted here and you and I have talked about topics
across the board, you know, Scott Jennings, CNN call this
and we've adapted it here, you know, being on the
wrong side of an eighty twenty issue.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
But I don't even know if the math is that much.
Speaker 6 (12:06):
In the Democrats favor their approval ratings going below twenty percent,
their stances on these issues, them dying on these hills
of like trans women, biological men in women's sports locker
room spaces, that they have to play this losing hand.
Then they're playing it out when they should be folding
and maybe kind of cutting their losses.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
They're not. This would be one, This would be one.
Ephraim Debiza, Solomon Gallagan.
Speaker 6 (12:29):
We're a joke nationwide here in Colorado because of this loophole.
I'm infuriated by it because there were Republicans that supported
this madness. So I'm let me put that aside for
a moment. So that's a losing issue. Crime in Colorado. Criminals,
the interest of criminals. We just heard it in this story.
What is you Fraimed Deviesa's prest interest.
Speaker 7 (12:48):
Don't care.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
And on the other side of another issue, Pete Hegseth,
Secretary of Wars.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
It's now called talking.
Speaker 6 (12:55):
About this today, and the reason I wanted to bring
it up with you, Sheriff, is because I think it
impacts our public servants as well here at home that
protect us domestically, whether it be our police or a firefighters.
Here's what Secretary Hegseth had to say, with physical fitness
and appearance.
Speaker 9 (13:11):
If the Secretary of War can do regular hard pt
so can every member of our joint force.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Frankly, it's tiring.
Speaker 9 (13:20):
To look out at combat formations or really any formation
and see fat troops. Likewise, it's completely unacceptable to see
fat generals and admirals in the halls of the Pentagon
and leading commands around the country in the world.
Speaker 6 (13:33):
It's a bad look. It is bad and it's not
who we are now. My grandpa's shooling a World War
two vet. My dad's dad, Sheriff would say that you
are built like a brick blank house. So take that
as a compliment as it is intended from him beyond,
But do you have two part question full confidence in
(13:53):
your Wild County Sheriff's Department, deputies, everybody on staff there
that's required to do physical tasks in the field.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
Your lives around the line.
Speaker 6 (14:00):
You're protecting each other, you're protecting the public, You're protecting
the perpetrators from themselves in a lot of cases. Do
you have that confidence? And I think more importantly, have
you felt pressured to hire substandard employees based on DEI
woke boxes to be checked, So great question.
Speaker 7 (14:20):
When I took over as sheriff, we had a fitness
standard in place, but it really had no teeth to it,
and I said, you know, we're going to change that.
So we have a fitness standard that applies equally across
the board, and it's not geared towards male or female.
It's geared towards your ability to do the job, and
you take that test annually. There's other circumstances where you
(14:43):
may have to take at mid year. Let's say, if
you're out for a a long period of time and
you come back to work, then we can invoke the
needs for you to go through the fitness standard to
make sure you're fit for duty. Everybody must pass it.
If they don't pass it they don't work as a
deputy anymore. And we've had a few that you know,
through the years, have said, you know, this is probably
not the job for me anymore, and that's a smart decision.
(15:04):
I wholeheartedly stand by that fitness standard because the last
thing that can happen is if you call nine one
one and the deputy shows up your door and you
have to render aid to the deputy. Well, that's not
doing anybody any good. So we need our people to
be able to do their job. And to the other
point on the DEI stuff, no, I don't feel any
pressure for that because I don't put any merit in
(15:25):
that stuff. Again, I believe in your ability to do
the job. And if I don't care what you necessarily
look like, what's your sexual preferences, I care if you
can get the job done and do it in the
best way possible. And you know, I say, oftentimes our
agency looks like a crayon box. We've got people of
all backgrounds, but the one commonality they have with each
(15:48):
other is they can get the job done, and that's
because it's merit based.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
Awesome Well.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
County Sheriff Steve Reim's final point here as I know,
you're riding off into the sunset of shriff, but your
life in the public sphere is not done as you're
running for Weld County Commissioner.
Speaker 2 (16:03):
So I just want to get your take.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
On this, Steve, apart from your sheriff's role, as to
what happened this past Saturday. You and I have been
talking about this too at the Central State Committee meeting
and the voting onto whether the primary should be closed
or done away with altogether, whether our candidates on the
Republican side should be chosen in some back room by
party elites. What is your read on what happened Saturday
(16:25):
and where do we go from here?
Speaker 7 (16:28):
Well, what happened Saturday was it was just shameful, to
be honest with you, and it's the the evolution of
the party. And I don't mean that towards any side
of the argument. There's people who want to opt out
of the primary, there's people who want to stay in
the primary. The issue is we've lost stability, we have
lost ability to have normal discourse, and quite honestly, the
leadership group, they didn't do themselves any favors by pontificating
(16:53):
from the stage. I mean it was just a very
poor display of what we need. It was a poor
display in a time where we need to figure out
how to find some commonality. I think the part that's
tough with people is many of the voters, myself included, say,
you know, I would rather not have unaffiliated people interacting
in our Republican primary or the Democrat primary. I think,
(17:16):
if you're going to play in a primary, if you're
going to vote in a primary, you should have to declare,
you know, your allegiance to one of those parties. That's
not the way the system allows in Colorado. So the
fix to that, and I say that in air quotes
for the Republicans, is to say, well, we'll just opt
out of the primary and we basically won't have one.
We'll pick our candidates at the state Assembly or at
the county assemblies. And I'm fine with that process too,
(17:39):
It's just not what I would prefer. And so when
we put it out to a vote, I would prefer
not to do that. I would prefer to give people
the option of a primary, even if that means unaffiliated
to playing it, because I want more people running for
public office, not less. And I say that, well, well,
going into an election, knowing I'm probably going to have
an opponent, but you know, iron sharp and iron.
Speaker 6 (18:00):
This is the theme from the commission and we want
him to be the next World County Commissioner.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Sheriff Steve Reams joining us. Aaron Ryan shielding live.
Speaker 1 (18:13):
A woman says she fears her family may be in
danger after a Douglas County judge sentence her former fiance
to probation.
Speaker 10 (18:20):
The district attorney in the case is upset, saying the
man convicted on three different counts should be behind bars
stocks Everyones.
Speaker 1 (18:25):
Vicenta Arena spoke to the victim and joins us now
from the Douglas County Courthouse with her message tonight Vicente.
Speaker 10 (18:32):
Christine Aubrey Hadwill told us today she was dismayed and
infuriated over this probation sentence, and she now says she's.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Living in fear.
Speaker 10 (18:42):
There is The case centers on this video of what
the twenty third Judicial District DA says helped lead to
the conviction of a man for assaulting and stalking his
former fiancee. The DA says officers can be seen tracking
down Taylor Wayne Burrows in Highland's ranch. The victim says
the man from Lakewood began stalking her and violating a
(19:05):
restraint order several times, and at one time he even
threw rocks at her window. She told us she was
scared and angry after the probation sentence was handed down,
dis spleef and anger.
Speaker 11 (19:19):
I don't even know what else to feel about it
at this point. It's extremely infuriating that he is just
free to walk among us because Judge Victoria kling and
Smith decided that he needed to work on his mental
health and work on his own demons.
Speaker 10 (19:37):
The victim and the prosecutors say they both asked that
the thirty one year old of Lakewood spend time behind bars.
District Attorney George Brockler says judges use sentencing guidelines set
by state lawmakers. The victim had hoped Burrows would spend
several years behind bars.
Speaker 12 (19:58):
The judge referred him to two separate community corrections boards
and two separate jurisdictions.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
They both rejected.
Speaker 12 (20:04):
Him that leaves prison, and the judge found a different alternative,
which was to return him to our communities.
Speaker 10 (20:11):
We have reached out to the judge in the case,
Victoria Klingensmith, for a response through an email and a voicemail.
Burrow's attorney, Marks a Voice, said the court properly sentenced
mister Burrows after a thorough review of all relevant information.
She did what any judge with integrity would do. She
(20:32):
placed mister Burrows on probation with meaningful supervision after he
had already served nineteen months in jail. Brockler says the
sentence in this case could impact the willingness of other
victims experiencing similar violence to come forward out of what
Cadwell has this message.
Speaker 11 (20:51):
Keep working through it, keep working through it. It will
be worth it in the end. Whether or not it
turns out the way that you want, you can also
live your life the way that you want.
Speaker 10 (21:03):
We still have not heard back from the judge in
this case. If we get a response, we'll be posting
it on our website kadibr dot com at the Douglas
County Justice Center.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Cassiar Rock were sent to Ada Spox thirty.
Speaker 6 (21:14):
One simply my numbing I mean, this is the common
threat as we go back to a framed de visa
with Sheriff Steve Orensweld County.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Why the judges are so concerned.
Speaker 6 (21:24):
With the rehabilitation the well being, what's best for this perpetrator, who, actually,
if you think about it, is a victim in our
criminal justice system. Won't you somebody think about the criminals.
This is where we're at, folks, and I'm going to
try to put a fine point on it with the
aforementioned George Brockler, twenty third District Attorney, joining us here
(21:45):
on Ryan Schuling Live.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
George, thank you as always for your time.
Speaker 8 (21:49):
Hey, thanks for.
Speaker 7 (21:50):
Giving me some time to chat with you.
Speaker 8 (21:51):
Man, I'm sorry I miss Steve on the I was
in a meeting and I and then I heard Steve
was on the radio, and I thought, man, there's nothing
better than hearing Steve whale away at some other thing.
Speaker 6 (22:02):
Well you joining forces with him to co host the
Dan Kaplis Show is one of the highlights of my career.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
And I don't say that lightly.
Speaker 7 (22:07):
And I hope that's so nice.
Speaker 8 (22:10):
One set the bar a little higher too. Let's do
it again.
Speaker 6 (22:13):
That's what I'm hoping for is an encore and a sequel.
Now what the sequel I'm not hoping for. But George,
I'm just gonna plainly state it because so many of
us out here, you know, we live with great sheriffs
like Darren Weakley. They're in Doug co or Steve Reamswild
County with a great prosecutor like yourself. And I don't
say that lightly either, but you can only do so much.
(22:34):
And I am concerned about these habitual offenders, repeat offenders
like this person, this individual violating a restraining order, assault stalking.
What is it going to take? Efrian Debza shows up
in a University of Northern Colorado dorm room with an
assault rifle as some people might tournament, a gun that
(22:55):
he shouldn't have on campus.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Is it going to take.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
An individual killing the person from whom should be protected
by from this person?
Speaker 2 (23:06):
I don't understand what the judge's logic is here.
Speaker 6 (23:08):
He needs to reflect and he needs to really address
himself and maybe put himself through therapy.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
I don't understand this at all. Please help me.
Speaker 8 (23:18):
It's tough then, and I think the answer to your
question is likely Yes, it's usually not until something horrible happens.
But that alone won't do it. It's something horrible happens
and the media brings attention to it, because bad things
happen all the time. Where judges make mistakes. Remember at
every sentencing to probation or community corrections or anything in
(23:40):
between is a bit of a fingers crossed guess. It
just is, especially when you have recommendations, as we have
in this case from just about everybody except the defendant himself,
that the dude should fay some type of incarceration. You
are rolling the dice. The problem is you're rolling the
public's dice because your mistakes won't come back to haunt
you as a judge. That's why it usually takes something
(24:03):
horrific that catches the media's eye to bring some sort
of change. The problem that we see in Colorado here, Ryan,
and you talk about it every day on the show
in one way or another, is that we have had
so many consecutive years of elitist, progressive dominated government at
the state level, legislature and otherwise. We've watered down the laws,
(24:25):
We've created disincentives for putting people in prison. We're dealing
with right now, I can't remember if you mentioned this.
We're dealing with emergency releases of prisoners prior to the
conclusion of their prison sentences. Because the state started with Hickenlooper,
state started shutting down prisons, and then as the prison
population grew, they cried, oh my gosh, prison overcrowding. It's like, yeah,
(24:49):
you created the overcrowding and they created this mechanism. That's
just one example. The other is we can't get this
legislature to agree to man to Tory prison for anything,
especially like child rapists. And the reason for that is
they don't want people to be incarcerated and they want
to trust judges to make the right decisions. And by
(25:11):
and large, I think judges do a good job with
the information they have, but you give them enough discretion
and you start getting outcomes like this.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
Well, I want more people in prison. What do I
mean by that? George, And I know you agree with
this as a prosecutor too. I want bad guys and
gals in prison. I want them out and removed from society.
I don't mean it's called corrections, but let's be clear,
that's just nomenclature. And whether or not an individual can
be reformed, that's debatable. But there needs to be truth
and sentencing. There needs to be punishment for crimes committed.
(25:42):
That needs to serve as a deterrent to the public
to show if you do X, you will do YZ.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
In terms of forms of time. I think of Solomon Gallagan.
Speaker 6 (25:51):
But for the crafty moves of a fifth grader at
recess in broad daylight at an elementary school on a
playground to a spe from that mad man would have
been kidnapped, raped, killed, who knows, but that individual was
at least back out in the public.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
George, this is a national embarrassment.
Speaker 6 (26:11):
It's been on Laura Ingram, Fox News Newsmax continuously. And
the question I have for Colorado legislatures, including some Republicans,
is why is it only happening it seems on the
national scale here in Colorado, and we're not hearing about
this in other states. We're broken, my friend, the competency thing,
(26:32):
which I think you've rightly pointed out, this was a
bipartisan failure in terms of legislation. But the only side
of this equation that has come forward to say, hang on,
hang on, we need to change this because we should
not have a system in place that automatically dismisses charge
it charges, and automatically puts people out on the street
(26:52):
when they've committed some pretty serious crimes just because they've
been declared incompetent. That needs to have its own special session.
Speaker 8 (26:59):
We're not going to get that. My guess is it
won't truly change in the legislature. But I'm proud of
Barb Kirkmeyer for bringing it to the forefront and keep
beating that drum. The other part that you said, and
this is important language for people to listen to truth
and sentencing. There is no truth in sentencing in Colorado
unless you are sentenced to life without parole. That is
(27:21):
the only sentence for which you know exactly what you're getting.
So here's the big, bold hot take I'm going to have.
If you look at what makes the federal system work,
they don't do parole. What they tell you is, you
get sentenced to ten years in the Department of Corrections,
you're going to in the Bureau of Prisons. You're going
to prison for ten years. You can earn your way
(27:43):
back to like ninety or eighty five percent, but that's it.
I think Colorado ought to have a serious conversation about
doing away with parole because it has jacked up our
sentencing structures such that you get someone sentenced on a
non crime of violence to twelve years in the Department
of the Maximum. Let's say have the hicular homicide. That
(28:03):
cat is going to be parole eligible at four years
or less. That makes no sense.
Speaker 6 (28:11):
Final question on this issue, George, and this is Tom
Mustin informing me that you are scheduled to have a
meeting with the judge and the case that we led
the segment with. Not sure how much you can tell
us about that, but what is your goal going into
that meeting?
Speaker 8 (28:25):
Yeah, and it's not really a meeting just about that.
I mean, we have regular meetings. It was just a
topic that I think that we'd probably talk about this
in all their cases. I mean, part of the goal
here with any judicial district is you have all these
different players, none of whom have the same mission, and
so where you know, it's important that we keep lanes
of communication open and not just like with me and Darren,
(28:47):
it's easy because we're pretty much on the same side
of the coin and we do pretty much the same
kinds of things. But with like the public defenders, like
their job. They have a very specific mission, and their
mission is to really try to minimize the consequences. At
its core, minimize the consequences for their clients, and they
do that by protecting their constitutional rights. Okay, I get
(29:08):
that that's how we have an adversary system. Judges, and
this case is a good example. They don't exist to
rubber stamp my recommendations or anyone else's. They're empowered by
the law to make certain decisions, and sometimes when those
decisions are contrary to the things that we seek, we
get out and talk about it in public, because, by God,
transparency actually matters in a democracy. But the key is
(29:29):
to never let those things become the kinds of personal
tension points that could create problems down the road. And
so this isn't about just the specific case, but we
have routine and regular meetings all the time to talk
about all sorts of things procedure, policy, and with this one,
you know, this is probably one where it's just good
(29:52):
to have a conversation about, like, listen, when these things
happen in the future, how are we going to talk
about them, how are we going to deal with them,
How are we going to encourage each other to keep
this process moving forward? Because I got to tell you,
compared to other jurisdictions, I think we have the best
system going right now, between the judges, the public defenders,
the share of the DA I think we're going as
(30:13):
smoothly as you can do that, and I just think
if meetings will help us keep that going, I'm all in.
Speaker 6 (30:19):
We'll keep tabs on the results and products of that
meeting and hopefully it's fruitful. George Brockler, twenty third District
Attorney joining us. Final note here, George, because I've been
seeing you take some slings arrows and heat online for
your vote. With regard to the Central State Committee meeting
on Saturday, there is a big dust up hubbub. I
talked to Valdemar Archiletta about it about whether or not
(30:39):
we're going to have primaries going forward, whether or not
those primaries are going to be closed, whether or not
we're going to pump that all together and select candidates
for the gop at An Assembly and that type of process.
Where do you stand on that and what would you
say is the resolution to what we're talking about in
terms of the problem here.
Speaker 8 (30:56):
Yeah, for the State Central Committee meeting, I had every
intention of going. I'd spoken with Michael Allen, the dievel
Passo and we were both going to go, but I
ended up having some daddy duties that pulled me away
from any availability in the area, and so I gave
my proxy to Representative Anthony Hartzuk, who's own not only
(31:16):
an Army veteran, but he's a representative and the husband
of a great friend, Colonel Plevna, And I monitored this
thing from afar like I'm texting these guys furiously, like
what's going on? What's going on? And when I heard
it devolved into some sort of this procedural name calling
obstructionist thing. Look, we need an outcome. We need an
(31:37):
answer to the question whether we're going to withdraw from
the primary. It's a high bar. Some say it's too
high of a bar. It doesn't matter what some say,
because that's what the loss is got to get, seventy
five percent. It doesn't sound like the people that want
us to withdraw from the primary were anywhere near seventy
five percent. So it turned into this other thing. Big
picture is this, I want Republicans voting for a public
(32:00):
I don't want people who aren't invested enough in our
party to be part of it to get to say
who our standard bearer is. I don't think that's fair.
The problem is that ain't on the table. The two
options are the current system, which is the primary system,
which for all of its faults, just happens to provide
ballots to every single registered Republican out there who can vote.
(32:22):
And the alternative that we're being offered is, Hey, let's
take a couple thousand people that can bend their schedules
over the course of three or four separate weekends and
events to come to an event center somewhere and pick
our candidates and cut off the rest of those Republicans.
No thank you. I mean, I don't want an affiliated
is voting in our primary either, but you don't have
(32:44):
that option. You get one of two things, and no
thank you. I don't want the fifteen hundred to two
thousand people picking it for every other Republican out there.
I'd rather take what we have, speak to the broader audience,
and let me tell you why that works. I'll give
you a quick example, Ryan. In my particular race for
district attorney, I was primaried. I had someone that went
through the assembly. I did not. I got into the
(33:04):
race way late. I did not go through the assembly.
I petitioned on and I got to tell you how
it turned out. We went door to door, we expanded
our outreach everywhere because we knew we needed more Republican
votes than just the Assembly. We doubled up our opponent
in terms of votes on the primary. At the end
of the general election, we had had more votes for
(33:26):
this campaign than any other campaign in the history of
Douglas County for any any contested office at any level federal, state, local,
Nobody has gotten more votes in our campaign. Now, if
it's true that going through this primary process that allows
unaffiliated somehow gives us weak milk toast candidates less popular,
(33:47):
I don't know how that. How can how you can
say that given that Michael Allen, same thing, dude ended
up petitioning on one of the highest vote getters on
the ballot. There's a reason why this system has the
potential to be successful. I think the problem is it
requires Republicans to get out there and do the old
school knocking on doors, and these guys don't want to
do it. They want to be keyboard warriors and sit
(34:08):
around in a gymnasium somewhere or an event center and
dictate the future of the party. I don't think that's
a formula for success.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
George Brockler, twenty third District Attorney, joining us and always
generous with his time.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
George, Thanks, we'll talk again soon.
Speaker 7 (34:21):
Thanks bad thanks for having me.
Speaker 6 (34:25):
Good text to close out on here on Ryan Shuling
Live five and seven, three nine, Ryan, why do we
treat these career criminals like there's something special, like they're
going to eventually turn it around and be a benefit
to our society instead of a detriment.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Maybe I'm just cynical, but if you've been.
Speaker 6 (34:38):
Arrested ten plus times, you're just a bad apple, and
there's a ninety nine percent chance.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
That that's not gonna change. Well, said Texter. Couldn't agree more.
Speaker 6 (34:47):
It's a criminal justice system. Justice sometimes comes in the
form of sentencing and should crime and punishment. You're not
there just to be going through a system of corrections
and maybe rehabilitation. The punishment fit the crime, and it
must serve as a signal and a detriment to others
from committing that same crime. That'll do it for me
(35:07):
from here for now, Stay tuned. The Dan Caplis Show
is next. My thanks to Sheriff Steve Eames, George Brockler,
and Charlie Sparing for joining me today on Ryan Schruling Live.
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