Soundings April 27 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, and welcome to Soundings of Public Affairs presentation
of iHeartMedia. Each week we have an ecumenical discussion on
the Lectionary Scriptures and how they apply to our lives
and to our world. And today I join you. We're
recording before Easter, but these are the readings for after

(00:21):
Easter for Easter two. And I am Mollie Boscher and
I am the priest at Saint Andrew's Episcopal Church on
the North Side in Grand Rapids. And I was wondering
if Beth you would go first to introduce yourself.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Yes, I am Beth Dake. I'm the director of Faith
Formation at Saint Philip Neary Saint Anne and Reed's City.
And I'm the director of Pastor pier and Outreach at
Saint Mary's Saint Paul, Big Rapids.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
And I am Jessica Rivera Walker. I am the pastor
at Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Holland. We are at
the corner of one hundred and twelve inquency, so between
Holland and Zealand.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
Well, if we weren't recording before Easter, we would finally
be able to say that word. We're not going to
be able to.

Speaker 4 (01:03):
Say but a L l E l u I A.
That's the word we don't say during during Lent.

Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, yeah, be able to say it, and we'd be
saying it really loudly, but we're not what we're ready
to say it?

Speaker 4 (01:19):
Anyone else ready to say it?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
We're ready, we are, yes, and Lent to be over
me too.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
Yeah, some years Lent is more than just well that's
the joy of Easter, right, you know, even though Lent
seems like a really really really long time.

Speaker 4 (01:38):
Some years Easter is an even longer time.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
Yes, sometimes we forget that, you know, we we spend
all of that time lenting and we don't spend as
much time eastering.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, we must feast longer than we fast.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Come on, so how does that? How do you feast
during East?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
I've worked for one priest that says, you have a
bottle the wine on hand all the time during Easter season.
Do not go out of wine at your house. So
have a little wine, have a little cheese, you know,
be with your families, you know, feast a little bit,
go do some fun things. Pray, but pray joyfully even

(02:18):
in times, and so to pray joyfully that the Lord
is with us always, so yeah, feast a little bit.
We have fifty days now.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
Yep, you know, I'm trying to think about.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
At our parish, we follow the the nice seeing Fathers
who did not say the confession of sin during Easter,
so we we skip the confession for all of the
Easter season. That's a churchy thing to do. But I
think I think we should talk about church eat and
non churchy things to do.

Speaker 4 (02:46):
Of course, the color of celebration is what white?

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Right?

Speaker 5 (02:50):
White?

Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yes, so we we kind of like that's one of
the things you'll see in our churches. You'll see lots
of flowers, You'll see lots of you know, lots of white.

Speaker 4 (02:59):
We all.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
So we we have this lovely custom where our accletes
love to do the streamers. Do you know what I'm
talking about? Yeah, make them in a figure eight and
so we have streamers all during Easter up until cost
which is really fun, you know. And it's a way
that the young, the littlest kids, because she are our

(03:23):
accolte master, will put streamers on the ends of shorter
poles and so like it's a way that even the
littlest kids can start and be like, yes, I want
to be an acolyte, And I should say what an
accolte is if accolade is a child who helps with
the service, either by usually carrying the torches or carrying
the cross, or carrying the Gospel book, or in our case,

(03:50):
running wild with streamers in the church service.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Yeah, I love that. I think I'm going to add
streamers to my Easters. They Yeah, I think I'm going
to add streamers to the children's sermon on Easter.

Speaker 4 (04:09):
It's so fun. And she takes like wooden dowls.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, it hatches them that way and just like gets
like you know, ribbons that are white and gold and
you know, kind of long, and the wines that you
can just kind of go back and forth like a
figure eight, and they're not like they're not like you know,
it's just wonderful.

Speaker 4 (04:26):
It's so gorgeous. It's so gorgeous and fun.

Speaker 5 (04:29):
Oh fun. I think that might have to happen.

Speaker 2 (04:33):
We go ahead, go ahead, Jessica, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (04:36):
Oh no, I was.

Speaker 3 (04:37):
We We have like the decorations and everything and like, uh,
you know, lots of different bright colors and this year
for the kids area in our sanctuary will be really
brightly colored and everything like that. Usually the kids at
church kit candy, and then of course I think are

(04:58):
our feasting at home generally involves you know, chocolate bunnies and.

Speaker 5 (05:07):
Eastern goodies and things like that.

Speaker 4 (05:09):
So may I confess something?

Speaker 1 (05:12):
And I hope that Lila, Mom's cousin, if you hear this,
I am so sorry. But I think you know your
cousin Mary quite well. My mother thought sugar was instant death.

Speaker 4 (05:24):
And this is like in the you know, the late
seventies and early eighties.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
So when she cookies and things like that, she would
like have the amount of sugar. She's like, this is
these are empty calories. You shouldn't be having it, et cetera,
et cetera. Well, I will tell you sugar is part
of the reason I am Christian today.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
So you can thank.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Those people of Rowing Fork Presbyterian Church who felt sorry
for poor little Mollie. And would you know, slip Molly
sweet things and slip Molly Easter baskets and things like that,
and and like all of our potlucks had lots.

Speaker 4 (06:00):
Of empty calories in them. And when I think about.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Church, I think about food, so you know, I think
about like, you know, things like fried chicken and petophores
and and cupcakes with frosting on them.

Speaker 4 (06:14):
My mother never made frosting.

Speaker 1 (06:16):
And so, I mean, she's an amazing and wonderful mom
and completely ahead of her time. It was just not
very cool in the early eighties that she didn't think
that that's your chila.

Speaker 4 (06:27):
You know, and probably rightly so.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
And still I just want to say thank you to
those people of really Presbyterian Church who understood my sweet
tooth and helped me through those really hard Lenten years.

Speaker 4 (06:42):
Yes, in the light of Jesus, we also.

Speaker 2 (06:49):
Feasting on the sacramento of the life of the church.
The Easter sacraments will start having first communions during the
Easter season, little white bosses and veils and little white
suits and they'll just be adorable. And we have confirmations
that will be happening. Most of those will be at
the cathedral and ground rapids. I know, I'm preparing an
adult which is a different day, but we'll still go

(07:10):
to the cathedral for that for an adult confirmation. So
first communions confirmations will begin as part of our Easter season.

Speaker 1 (07:17):
Yeah, well, Easter, I mean we should probably continue to
remind ourselves that Easter is the time of feasting and
you kind of have to remember it every single week, right.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, right, speaking of sacraments, that's the other. We have
champagne for the wine on Easter Sunday.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Ah, Yes, that's fun we do. We do sparkling wine,
and we also have sparkling water and sparkling grape.

Speaker 4 (07:47):
Juice for our vigilt. We do that too. Yeah. I
heard one year there was a chocolate fountain, but that
was really hard to clean up.

Speaker 5 (07:56):
So ooh yeah, I mean be awesome, but hard to
clean up.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
Yeah, I would, you know sometimes, well maybe I'm not
saying a lot of times things like that, cleaning that
sort of thing up fall to the staff of a parish, Beth.
Is this your experience, Yes, lots of clean up, lots
of cleanup, it's true.

Speaker 5 (08:19):
Yeah, yes, set.

Speaker 2 (08:20):
Up, clean up, set up for the next one, set up,
clean up.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
Yeah, event planners sometimes, right.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Yes, try to remember to do it joyfully. Yeah, it's
a lot at one am where I'm still it's.

Speaker 4 (08:36):
A lot easier to be joyful when you're doing it
with somebody too, at least, that's right.

Speaker 5 (08:44):
WHOA.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
We're on Easter to today and this is is the
classic Easter two passage. I'm wondering, Beth, if you'll leave it,
you'll also you know, maybe give a shout out to
your brother as part of this. Right.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, I have a brother, Thomas, so he isn't always
like this. He always got, especially when we were younger. Oh,
there you are doubting Thomas. But yes, he doesn't like
Thanksgiving either, because Tom the Turkey wasn't. I don't know
why he got that, the poor thing. Anyway, he grew
up to be great, so he's a wonderful brother. So

(09:18):
this is a reading from John's Gospel. On the evening
of the first day of the week, when the doors
were locked where the disciples were for fear of the Jews,
Jesus came and stood in their midst and said to them,
Peace be with you. When he had said this, he
showed him his hands and his side. The disciples rejoiced

(09:39):
when they saw the Lord. Jesus said to them again,
peace be with you. As the Father has sent me,
so I send you. And when he had said this,
he breathed on them and said to them, received the
Holy Spirit who sinds you forgive, are forgiven them, and
whose sins are retained are retained. Thomas, called Didamus the twelve,

(10:00):
was not with them when Jesus came. So the other
disciples said to him, we have seen the Lord. But
he said to them unless I see the mark of
the nails in his hands and put my finger into
the nailmarks and put my hand into his side, I
will not believe.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Now.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
A week later, his disciples were again inside, and Thomas
was with them. Jesus came, although the doors were locked,
and stood in the midst and said, peace be with you.
Then he said to Thomas, put your finger here and
see my hands, and bring your hand and put it
into my side, And do not be unbelieving, but believe.

(10:40):
Thomas answered and said to him, my Lord and my God.
Jesus said to him, have you come to believe because
you have seen me? Blessed those who have not seen
and have believed. Now Jesus did many other signs in
the presence of his disciples that are not written in
this book. But these are written that you may come

(11:01):
to believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God,
and that through this belief you may have life in
his name. Can I just say, these disciples just abandoned
him at the cross right, and he's coming back, and
the first thing Jesus says is peace be with you.
I think I would have had something else to say.
I'm just a little more haisty than that. I would
have had something else to be saying to these guys.

(11:23):
But that's my little peace be with you. How many
times he says that in that reading, it's like, wow,
I think I would have had something else to say.

Speaker 4 (11:31):
It really is in Jesus just joking. Why not, right,
it's so true. Thank God, I'm not because.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
Wow, I'd have had something else to be saying.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Well, not only did they abandon them, but it abandoned him.

Speaker 5 (11:45):
But then they're they're like cowering.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
In the upper like they're like lock, They've got the
windows like shut. And you know, meanwhile, the women like
already went before dawn even to go do the important
things and everything, and these disciples are like cowering in

(12:10):
this upper room. And so yeah, that always amazes me too.
I'm like, wow, wait, wait to be strong.

Speaker 5 (12:19):
Guys doing great, But their.

Speaker 4 (12:22):
Hearts, as we say in the south right.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
Right, bless their hearts. But again, thankfully we are not
Jesus and Jesus is Jesus then amen, and Jesus is
just like, oh my god, guys, seriously, you know, like
I told you this would happen, why like.

Speaker 4 (12:43):
Every year though, I just have so much empathy for them.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
I mean, look, if someone told me someone had risen
from the dead, I would be like, okay, yeah, sure, whatever,
you know, because that even though he told them, I
think that is the and that is one of the
things you can only see in rear view mirror, you know, right.

Speaker 5 (13:04):
And fear is you know, fear shuts us off to
a lot of things.

Speaker 4 (13:11):
Doesn't shut down like ninety percent of your brain.

Speaker 5 (13:15):
Stress and fear, yeah, I mean it certainly feels like it.
So yeah, and they just.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
Watched him die truly, right, you know, they they understood
what crucifixion. I talked to a group yesterday and they
didn't really understand what crucifixion. What they were young people.
So I described a little bit about crucifixion. You should
have seen their faces. It's like, right, but the disciples
would have known how brutal torture crucifixion.

Speaker 3 (13:41):
Yeah, right, and how brutal the the regime was. I
mean they had also not only had they just witnessed
him died.

Speaker 5 (13:52):
They had they.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Had also witnessed, like you know, we talked about this
last time too, like they had also witnessed everybody who
had been singing Hosanna and and you know, Blessed is
the son of Blessed to see who comes in the
name of the Lord. All of those same people turn

(14:16):
like on a dime and demand for Bravis to be
released and Jesus to be crucified. So they had seen
how quickly the tide of public opinion flips.

Speaker 5 (14:29):
And it never says.

Speaker 2 (14:31):
What Jessica got.

Speaker 5 (14:33):
Oh no, I was just going to say.

Speaker 3 (14:35):
That what what always strikes me about this passage too,
So it only says that Thomas isn't there?

Speaker 5 (14:41):
Right, But like whips, where is Thomas? I mean, I
don't know how much.

Speaker 4 (14:49):
Let's let's let's use our imaginations Thomas was Where do
you think Thomas was.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Out getting the groceries? Yeah, using the rest of the
world time you have to use the rest room.

Speaker 5 (15:02):
Right, right? Like how long was this visit? Is it was?

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Was?

Speaker 5 (15:09):
Was Thomas indisposed?

Speaker 3 (15:11):
Was Thomas maybe taking maybe taking a see.

Speaker 5 (15:17):
If they were so afraid?

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Like I think maybe Thomas is out just like taking
a walk, like needing to just like clear his mind.

Speaker 5 (15:24):
But if they're.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
Or you're so oppressed, he goes to bed.

Speaker 3 (15:29):
You know, maybe that could be a too that he
goes to that he just goes to bed.

Speaker 5 (15:36):
You know, because it says that they're like so scared.

Speaker 3 (15:39):
So I'm I'm like, well, I don't think he's like
out out. I don't imagine he's very far. Maybe he's
sitting on the roof just being moody, or.

Speaker 1 (15:50):
Maybe he he when Jesus dies, he recognizes that he
hasn't seen his family in a while and is like, okay,
I need to go see my mom, you know, yeah, right,
and so, you know, one of the things that I
have done, and it's very silly. I apologize Beth and
Jessica for this passage is use this as a.

Speaker 4 (16:12):
Time to talk about what Jesus's body was like, and so.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
And so you ask people in the congregation about all
of the different categories of the undead.

Speaker 4 (16:21):
All right, see what I mean. I'm sorry, Beth, but.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
Like you're like, okay, what is a ghost like? Well,
a ghost can't eat right, the food drops right through them, right.

Speaker 4 (16:30):
What is the empire like?

Speaker 1 (16:31):
What is a zombie like. And the point is is
that Jesus' risen body is so different from any of
these categories of undead.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
And and like, what do we find about Jesus's body.

Speaker 1 (16:44):
Jesus can eat, Jesus can go through doors, Jesus can
there's lots of things Jesus can do, you know, And
that's a that's a that's a really interesting thing too,
you know. And of course people really get into that,
I mean, because everybody knows so many things about categories

(17:05):
of the undead, right, a lot more than I do, say,
for an example, But what it helps us think about
is that our Savior's body and the risen Jesus is
just so very different and the wounds are still there,
but there is this this lack of temporalness about the body.

Speaker 3 (17:32):
Right, but also that he hasn't changed into something that
would be considered monster ish, right, Like I think, right,
I don't think that's silly at all. I have worked
with confirmation kids before. The question always comes up about
whether or not Jesus is a zombie. They're very they're

(17:52):
very confused about that. Sometimes there's a lot of like, well,
wouldn't that make Jesus know this is at the zombie apocalypse.
This is a different thing, you know, but I think
that that's really important though, that Jesus is both like
he says to Mary, like, you don't touch me, you

(18:15):
can't touch me yet, but then when he reappears, when
specifically to Thomas, he does say touch.

Speaker 4 (18:28):
Me, touch me.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
Again. I'm sorry, y'all, this is weird. But you know,
like you know when a cicada comes out of its
little shell, or a moth or a butterfly.

Speaker 4 (18:41):
I mean, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
The butterfly exhibit is happening at my regardens right now,
and at first like they're kind of like wet and
if you touch you know what I mean? I almost
this is in my imagination. Do not hear this from
the scriptures, but you almost think like right after the resurrection,
maybe Jesus is he needed a little bit of time
to inhabit the body, you know, right, you wonder is

(19:03):
that Mary don't touch me?

Speaker 4 (19:06):
I mean, you're you're.

Speaker 1 (19:08):
Hearing a bunch of pastors riff on things and use
our imaginations sounding listeners. So please please forgive us today
we're caught up in the joy of Easter.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Right, and how important the body is right, because we
think about the incarnation God became, turn it on flesh, amen, right,
and we have to see that in the resurrection, that
glorified body. Yeah, so important because he took on flesh
the incarnation and now we have the resurrection of him.
He still has his body and.

Speaker 4 (19:38):
The way amen amen.

Speaker 3 (19:41):
Yeah right, And we receive, you know, depending on how
frequently we each of us have communion, the sacrament of
communion in our churches like it in our church it's weekly,
So we receive weekly the body of prost and that

(20:01):
I mean, And isn't that all that Thomas is asking for?
Really like getting back to that, isn't that all he's
asking for is to receive the same thing that the
disciples got, which is which is a physical experience with
the risen Christ.

Speaker 6 (20:22):
And that's like why you Christ is so important, isn't
it like to taste it and smell it and to
to have God in God's self in whatever way you
think that happens.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
We're not going to talk about the doctor and comedian
right now, y'all, but you know, come to us right right,
And that's like, I don't know. This story is often
called doubting Thomas, and I just really can't stand that
particular title for it.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
And you know, I loved ours.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Our scripture doesn't say it, our our translation doesn't say
it God. But but one of the things about Greek
is it's not like I believe. Greek is like I
am believing. There's more action in it. And your translation
kind of gave a little bit more life, you know,
it says it says here Jesus says.

Speaker 4 (21:11):
Do not doubt but believe.

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Jesus actually said do not be doubting, but be believing,
you know, which kind of like gives more, gives more
energy into the text. And your text path gave that
a little bit more than ours us or than the
n RS be us, which I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (21:31):
Right, it makes it a continuous thing, like it's not
I believe it once you it's a.

Speaker 5 (21:39):
Belief in. Faith is a continuing thing.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
It it keeps going you, it's you.

Speaker 5 (21:48):
It's dynamic.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
Yeah, I think it's a journey, right. I know that
word is used the last times. But you know sometimes
that have faith is weak. Sometimes it's strong. So the
journey of believing. Sometimes we believe a lot. Sometimes it's
like I'm a little weak here, what's going on in
my life, what's going on in my family, what's going
on at church? I'm not where is this half? Why
is this happening? And sometimes it's like very strong, It's like, okay,
I get it. We're going on. We're just gonna keep

(22:12):
going forward here and believe. So I think it's a
journey of That's that verb, right, It's a verb that
keeps moving and continues on as we journey forward in
our faith lives. That sometimes we're very strong. I'll speak
for myself. Sometimes I'm very strong. This is it. I
surrender it all. And the next day it's like I
have something to say here, what's going on?

Speaker 1 (22:35):
I mean, like, come on, we are all human and
there are I mean, I'll just say it directly. There
have been easters where I'm like, did this really happen?

Speaker 4 (22:43):
I mean, I believe it.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
I am believing into it because of my role as
a priest and as a pastor and as a follower
of Jesus.

Speaker 4 (22:51):
But it's not like every single minute.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
If you caught me on some kind of crazy Tuesday,
I might be able to, you know, make the art
for you, you know, in a strong way. Sometimes like
as you say, bath, Sometimes I am weak and sometimes
I am strong, and that's part of being human.

Speaker 3 (23:08):
And sometimes when it feels like the world is falling
part around you, there's injustice everywhere. You've just seen people
that you love and a person that you love being
brutalized by a brutal oppressor, and then ten of your
friends are like, oh, hey, guess what, he was totally

(23:29):
right here, and you're like, no, I can't. I can't
with you right now, Like, no, I'm still grieving. Life
is pretty crappy right now. Have you not looked outside
the windows? What are you talking about? Just fine?

Speaker 5 (23:46):
Okay, then let him just show up to me.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
If you're so sure that this happened, then let it
happen to me too. You know, I think, I mean,
I get I get that sentiment right.

Speaker 5 (24:00):
And so then instead of God.

Speaker 3 (24:03):
Being like, well, you're not a believer, God's like, okay, fine,
here I am.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
You know, we know there's that.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
There's that wonderful there's that wonderful line of Julian of Norwich.
You know, all will be well in all manner of
things will be well, and all will be well.

Speaker 4 (24:22):
And I have this.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
There's a couple of years ago, I discovered a song
and it's by a woman whose name is Meg Barnhouse, and.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
Basically she's like, Julian, what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (24:32):
You know, there's hunger, there's oppression, there's all of this stuff, Like,
what are you talking about? And then Julian kind of
comes back to her and says, hey, look, of course
I know about all of these things. And yet, like
you know, still all will be well in the you know,
in all of the midst of this. And so again
Meg Barnhouse, you know, and it's it's a wonderful little song.

(24:53):
It's she was a let's see here.

Speaker 4 (24:55):
I think she's a UCC.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Pastor, and it's a really fun little song. But it's
but it just kind of reminds you, Okay, of course,
you know that we're never going to see it in full.

Speaker 4 (25:07):
We're never going to see this in full.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Yeah, at least with this body that I have right now,
I'll never see it in full. Right, But will you say,
what do we say at the end of our creed?
We believe in the resurrection of the dead and the
life of the world. Yeah, and we don't know what
that means, but we believe it.

Speaker 5 (25:29):
Right, But we believe it.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yes, we'll know in the fullness of the Kingdom right
when we get on the other side. Yeah, that's the
great hope. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:42):
Well, remember you're supposed to be eating your chocolate if
that's the thing you gave up, or what is it
best said, have a bottle of wine in your house
at all time. Yeah, and this may be the time
to eat your meat and eat the things that are
maybe a little bit excessive, and maybe to revel in

(26:04):
all of the beautiful goodness that is in our world
and the ways that God comes to us, both in
the bread and the wine, and every single.

Speaker 5 (26:14):
Day sounds good. All right, Happy Easter and

Speaker 1 (26:18):
On behalf of Jessica and Beth and myself, Happy Easter.