Soundings February 9 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Soundings, a public affairs
presentation of iHeartMedia. Each week we have an acumenical discussion
and reflection of the scriptures and how they apply to
life into the world. I am the Reverend Molly Boscher
and I serve Saint Andrew's Episcopal Church on the north
Side on three Mile Road, and we have two of

(00:22):
our regulars here this morning. Would you start, Jessica, introduce yourself.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Sure. I am Reverend Jessica Rivera Walker. I am the
pastor of Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Holland, Michigan, on
the corner of one hundred and twelfth and Quincy.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
And I am Beth Day.

Speaker 4 (00:39):
I am the director of Faith Formation at Saint Philip
Neary Saint Anne in Reed City. And I am the
director of Pastor Karen Outreach at Saint Mary Saint Paul,
Big Rapids.

Speaker 1 (00:49):
Well, it is just a few weeks that we have
welcomed Beth with us, and you know, I think there's
kind of an obvious question. I mean, maybe not all
of our listeners have this question, but wait, how come
there's three women doing this work and being on the
radio show on a Sunday morning. When pastors are generally

(01:12):
men and priests are generally men. Could either of you
be willing to answer that question?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, I would say one, it's at least in my tradition,
the Lutheran tradition, it is not actually taken for granted
anymore that pastors are usually men. We have for years
now been about fifty to fifty in our seminaries and
things like that. As far as women in leadership, we

(01:42):
began ordaining women in nineteen seven. Y. Yeah, that's right.
I had to think about that for a minute. So
it's been it's been over fifty years that we have
ordained women, and it seems that, you know, more and

(02:05):
more women team are going into leadership roles I think
are cross denominations, you know, So it's so best best.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
What about your tradition, Yes, you are you are a
woman in doing this work in your tradition, yes, And.

Speaker 4 (02:25):
The Roman Rite Roman Catholic Church we do not ordain women.
We ordained men. So men are ordained to the priesthood,
to the prestputory council to decon it, to the aconate.
But I'm a lay woman, I'm not avowed religious. I'm
a lay woman. And my degrees are in theology and
communications and pastor works. And my degrees and I believe

(02:47):
my gifts. My calling was to be in ministry and
in ways that I could do that and still be in.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
The Catholic Church, which is a great love for me,
to be a.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
Catholic now religious for those religious like religious sister or
a nun, or a vowed religious a sister or a nun,
those they take vows, I'm not I'm.

Speaker 1 (03:07):
Not just but you were like the beginnings. I'm talking
about the beginnings from the twelfth and thirteenth centuries women
Catholic women who lived and who were now vowed religious,
and they were in Belgium and the Low countries, and
some of the beginnings that we would know of might
be Mechtilda magdeboord or head of witch or you know,

(03:29):
all of these wonderful, amazing medieval mystics. Catholic Church put
a cabash on that. But it is really good to
see and hear about people who are using their gifts
in the church, right.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
Right, yes, yes, And Beth, I would say, yeah, not
just a lay woman your.

Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah, can you use state that I I'm a larry woman?

Speaker 4 (04:00):
Yes, So I'm a lay woman in the church with
degrees but also gifts, you know, called and gifted is.

Speaker 3 (04:05):
It was a wonderful document that I.

Speaker 4 (04:07):
Read a long time ago in the church that we're
all called we all have gifts to you.

Speaker 3 (04:11):
So if we all use our gifts and build up
the Body of Christ. Wow, what an impact we can
have on the world.

Speaker 1 (04:16):
Well, thank you for that. So we're when we're recording this,
we're recording this on the first Monday in February, and
I think we should actually say just a little bit
about our political situation because it's a little bit overwhelming,
and not to call attention to it at all is

(04:38):
kind of seems a little silly to me, because there's
a lot going on, isn't there. And you know, in
our episcopal world, one of our bishops spoke and gave
a sermon at the National Prayer Breakfast where she asked
President Trump to have mercy and to just consider all

(04:59):
of the people who were not his subjects but who
voted for him, and people who didn't vote for him.
And there was a lot of karfuffel about that and
the other thing that's happened, at least in my episcopal
world is that the government has one of the the
places of charity in our country has been the government,

(05:22):
and so our episcopal episcopal migration ministries are having to
shut down because the government is no longer providing funding
for that.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
I am. I mentioned h Bishop Maryanne Buddy in my
sermon yesterday and so lots of bishops have come out
in support of her. Our the Presiding Bishop of the
EOCA has written a statement as with you talking about

(05:56):
your episcopal migration ministries. The Lutherans have. We have lots
of different ministries that rely on partnerships with the government,
like Lutheran disaster relief and things like that. We have
an overarching ministry called Lutheran Social Services, and Lutheran Social

(06:18):
Services is active in all of the fifty states we have.
They're a huge provider of senior housing is one of
the things that we do in a major way. We
also have refugee resettlement services in Michigan where we are.

(06:39):
It's under the name Samaritas, but Samaritas does senior housing.
We have a New American program where they work with
refugees who are first coming in. We are a huge
provider just like Catholic charities of like foster services and
adoption services. Our adoption services are LGBTQ inclusive. We have

(07:04):
addiction services, we do financial counseling, we have mental health services.
This is an umbrella, that's, like I said, all over
the country. Unfortunately, when the government gained access to the
USAID information and how money is distributed, they decided that

(07:25):
the money that was given for partnership with the government
and Lutheran Social Services was not good. Mike Flynn called
it money laundering. I can assure you it is not.
It is used, as I said, for all of these
different services. I haven't gotten information yet about anything being

(07:50):
definitively cut, but we are definitely on the chopping block,
and so that is a worry and that's a concern.

Speaker 1 (08:00):
So I have a question for you too. In the
midst of this. Right now we're talking, we're supposed to
be talking about God and our lectionary texts. Right, how
does this question of the political and our political sphere
fit in with our lectionary texts and God in all
of that, how do we understand that relationship? Wow, lots

(08:20):
of quiet day. Well, that's how about you.

Speaker 4 (08:25):
I think it relates to our text in Jesus reached
out to the poor, the outcast, the broken, the lonely.
So especially when we read you know, different texts where
Jesus is doing even today. I mean, Jesus reach us out,
you know, to Peter, to Simon when we read it
here in a minute and he calls himself, you know,

(08:47):
I'm not worthy, you know, so the poor, the out
and we're all that, right, all of us have that.

Speaker 3 (08:51):
There are different degrees I think of brokenness.

Speaker 4 (08:55):
Of being poor, being an outcast in the world, and
how do we help one another and build each each
other up in outreach? I mean that's part of the
work were all called to do, is outreach.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah, and loving our neighbors as ourselves. Yes, you know
we always have to ask that question, you know, how
do we love our neighbors as ourselves? And Jesus was
pretty clear in that story that I think most of
us know of the good Samaritan when that lawyer, wanting
to justify himself, says, well, who is my neighbor? You know,
and you know, the whole question of neighboring expands in

(09:30):
that particular passage. But thank you all for that, because
we will occasionally disagree with the political leader and that
doesn't mean that we hate them or that we want
them gone or anything like that. But it is and
continues to be always the work of the Church to

(09:53):
call the political sphere to account when that has to happen.
So shall we read our text today? Now that we're
off a very you know, sometimes uncomfortable topic, because sometimes,
you know, in impolite company, we say we don't talk
about politics and religion. But I would really encourage us
as much as we possibly can to talk about politics

(10:15):
and religion, because when we're not talking about it, that's
when funny things happen. And it's hard, it's hard work.
We have to really open our hearts. But I really
would encourage us to begin those conversations about politics and
religion with people that we love. All right, shall we
read our text for today?

Speaker 4 (10:37):
So it's from Luke's Gospel. While the crowd was pressing
in on Jesus and listening to the word of God,
he was standing by the lake of Garcna. He saw
two boats there alongside the lake. The fishermen had disembarked
and were washing their nets. Getting into one of the boats,
the one belonging to Simon, he asked him to put

(10:59):
out a short distance from the shore. Then he sat
down and taught the crowds from the boat. After he
had finished speaking, he said to Simon, put out into
deep water and lower your nets for a catch. Simon
said in reply, Master, we have worked hard all night
and have caught nothing. But at your command, I will

(11:22):
lower the nets. When he had done this, they caught
a great number of fish, and their nets were tearing.
They signaled to their partners in the other boat to
come help them. They came and filled both boats, so
that the boats were in danger sinking. When Simon Peter
saw this, he fell at the knees of Jesus and said,

(11:44):
depart from me, Lord, for I am a sinful man,
for astonishment at the catch of the fish had made
him had seized him and all those with him. And
likewise James and John, the sons of Zetterby, who were
partners of some Jesus said to Simon, do not be afraid.

(12:05):
From now on you will be catching men. When they
brought their boats to the shore, they left everything and
followed him.

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Thank you for that, b Thank you. This is such
a classic Jesus story, isn't it. You know, just kind
of about the fishermen and fishers of men. I mean,
did you learn that I will make you fishers of
men when you were a small child? You know, yes, yeah,
I like fishers of people a little better because you know,
sometimes the men thing, you know is, you know, as

(12:33):
a woman, I hope that you know I am included
in that language of men. Well, And I have to
say I love Simon's answer when Jesus asks him to
put out his nets for a catch. He's like, I
don't think you know what you're talking about, but I'll
still do it. I can kind of hear myself in that,

(13:00):
just kind of a little bit of sass. Yet if
you say so fine, you know, I really like that
we have worked all night long but have caught nothing.
In other words, come on, Jesus, you know, do you
really think you know about this?

Speaker 2 (13:18):
I find it so interesting, the metaphor of catching people,
because if you think about that, like for a second,
like the fish, the fish don't have any agency in this, right,
Like the fish get caught in the net and they're caught,

(13:38):
like they don't they don't have any choice in the matter.
So I just think about this idea of I will
make you fishers of people of like being like being
caught in Jesus's net, like you know, just this kind
of and not not in a way like that Jesus

(13:59):
is for sing Us to follow him, because I don't
think that's it either, but more of a like an
inevitability that we're just we're caught. We're caught in God's net,
that God catches us and and we sort of we

(14:19):
we find ourselves not not able or not willing to escape,
maybe because we don't want to, because once we're caught
in God's love, once we're caught in God's embrace, like
there's nowhere else that we would rather be. But I
just it's it's a really interesting metaphor just because I think, like,

(14:44):
do I really want to be a fish in this metaphor?
Kind of like when Jesus is talking about being the
good shepherd and wear sheep, and I'm like, do I
do I want to be a sheep?

Speaker 1 (14:56):
Is that is that?

Speaker 2 (14:58):
Is that the most flattering metaphor for me? But yeah,
I think it is interesting. And and the and the
fisherman being like, okay, you're not a fisherman, Like we've
been doing this for our entire lives like you think,
we know what we're doing.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
So are there places where it's good to be caught?

Speaker 4 (15:14):
Yes, I think there are good places to be caught
when you know, Jessica was saying in God's Love that
we're caught in God's love, that we're caught in use mercy.
I think there are good places to be caught with God.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
But other places like not in not in in the
metaphors here, but other like I think, I mean, what
are where are some other places where that that metaphor
of caughtness is actually like a good thing.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
I think anytime it has to do with with love
and true community to be caught when you're when you're
you know, like embraced by a community that maybe you
weren't seeking to begin with, you know, when you know well,

(16:00):
I think we all hope that our communities of faith
are places where we can just surround somebody with love,
even when they don't necessarily have the ability within themselves
to ask for it and to say no, we're gonna

(16:21):
you're like you're ours and we're going to take care
of you, you know. And because I think humans don't
always have either the ability or the desire to ask
for help, like we are not. We are not great

(16:42):
creatures at asking for help, especially when we perceive that
we are weak.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
You know.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
I think about like people who are experiencing depression or
other forms of mental illness or just illness, and having
to admit I need some help here is really difficult
for us. So when we have communities that can catch
us in those moments and be like, look, I know

(17:13):
it's hard to admit that you need help, but we're
going to help you, it can sometimes make that easier.
I just got really quiet.

Speaker 4 (17:22):
I was just thinking something similar that because I work
with the sick and the homebound and people who are ill,
that sometimes I get caught with them because I care
so much that to really reach out and embrace them
and make sure and I get caught with them, and I.

Speaker 1 (17:38):
Caught in a phone conversation that maybe like takes a
little bit longer than what you think caught. I mean,
we use that.

Speaker 4 (17:44):
I like in this reading that the first time Simon
addresses Jesus, he says master, right, teacher Rabbi, but the
second time he calls him Lord. I just love the difference.
You know, once the catch has happened and the miracle
took place. You know, Peter's calls him Lord. I think

(18:06):
the humility there of Simon Peter, and then Jesus reassures, right,
do not be afraid.

Speaker 3 (18:14):
You know, it's okay.

Speaker 1 (18:16):
I know you will see The Chosen on this passage.
You know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (18:20):
The yes, I have not.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
I haven't watched any episodes of The Chosen yet. I
need to sit down and do that.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
I mean, it's it's it's kind of like this, but
it's all it kind of it adds some midrush to it.
It adds some imagination to it. So in The Chosen,
Peter is is in trouble for back taxes and so
he has no and he's just worried about how he's
going to make this money and how he's going to
support his family. And then this episode happens and he

(18:55):
can kind of be like.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
I get that.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
I mean, there is a sense of relief because if
they this is their livelihood and they've had a bust
of a day so far. I imagine that fishing. I
mean even even today, like I've watched some episodes of

(19:17):
like The Greatest Catcher, Dangerous Catch or whatever those shows are.

Speaker 1 (19:23):
That fishing seems to be.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
Really like like kind of like minute to minute and
really like hand to mouth, Like you have to have
a good haul, like every single time to be able
to cover the expenses of the boat and everything like that,
and to be able to have enough profit to care
for your family. So I imagine it was the same

(19:48):
thousands of years ago too. So if they're having a
day where they haven't gotten anything, I can imagine they're
all feeling that anxiety of like, what, like I don't,
we don't how are we going to feed our family
for this next for this next period. And so this

(20:09):
miracle is more than just proving to the disciples who
he is or the potential disciples future disciples, who he is.
This is a miracle of feeding hungry people, of providing
for their families.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
And trusting that Jesus will do that. Right.

Speaker 4 (20:33):
I think Molly's in the beginning, right, We've been fishing
out there all night, Lord, But if you say so,
we'll go back. We've been out there all night fishing
in the deep water. There's nothing to trust to go back.
If the Lord says do it, go back and do
it right.

Speaker 2 (20:49):
And it's sort of like I can't imagine being in
a circumstance like that where it's so you know, like,
oh my gosh, I didn't I didn't get anything this
past night, and now my family could go hungry like
I have never I've been blessed enough that I've never
had to be in that position. And so the amount

(21:10):
of trust that it takes and for them in this
guy that like they literally they mean they've heard of him,
but like they don't know him, and he's just you know, like, hey,
do what I say. The amount of they must have
felt some sort of pull in that moment to trust him.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
In the Chosen, and I mean, you know, it's again,
it's just a that's just kind of add some layers
to the story. They're all kind of young, you know.
I mean sometimes we don't think about the Disciples, you know,
we think about them being venerable and you know, Peter
full of grace and truth, you know, preaching. But in

(21:56):
the Chosen they're just such babies, you know, and you
see them as being kind of like these teenage boys,
and and that that was probably you know, they were
probably pretty young, and they make John just almost a child,
you know, which is very interesting.

Speaker 5 (22:16):
You know.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
I love this story. I love this story because.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
I hadn't thought about them being young. Well, I guess
I imagined that they were maybe Jesus' age at this time.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
I mean, it would be hard if they all had
wives and children to leave everything and follow him, you know,
because you have responsibilities when you are a parent. What
do you think it means? I mean, we're almost done
with our time. But what do we think it means?
When when Peter says, go away from me, Lord, for
I am a sinful man.

Speaker 4 (22:47):
I think it shows whose humility that Peter is humbled
by the miracle, and he shows whose humility that I
am a sinful man. I'm not worthy to be in
your presence. And Jesus responds, is just so beautiful, you know,
come follow me. I'm going to make you fishers of men,
and even more than that, a leader, which Peter probably

(23:08):
Simon didn't see coming at all. But I love how
Jesus's response to him. But I think it's that humility.
And then he takes his place. Right, be humble, but
take your place.

Speaker 3 (23:20):
Use your gifts.

Speaker 4 (23:21):
We talked about that a little bit. Use your gifts,
and may that be humble about it. We're all sinners,
but I think you know. Jesus accepts that and says, yeah,
I know, but come and follow me.

Speaker 3 (23:34):
I want you. I've caught you. I want you to
be part.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
Of And you already know how to do this. You're
already a fisher person. You know you know how to
do this. You already have the skills. Sometimes you think
you have to learn all new skills. No, just like you, Beth.
I mean you had the skills already. You know, you
have the skills in the gifted areas already.

Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yep, just needed to be developed and nourished and yes.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, yeah, Well, thank you all for this time on
behalf of Beth and Jessica. We hope that you have
a fantastic Sunday, and thanks for listening to soundings