Soundings July 13 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning everyone, and happy Sunday, and welcome to Soundings,
a public affairs presentation of iHeartMedia. Each week we have
an acumenical discussion on the lectionary texts and how they
apply to our life and to the world. And I
am the Reverend Malli Basher. I'm an episcopal priest serving
on the north side of Grand Rapids at St. Andrew's

(00:22):
Episcopal Church on three Mile Road. And we have two
of our regulars here this morning, and I would love
for them to introduce themselves, starting with Beth today.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Oh, I'm bath Day. I'm the director of Faith Formation
at Saint Philip near Saint Anne's Rich City. And I'm
the director of pastor Caire and Outreach at Saint Mary's
Saint Paul in Bigreats.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm Reverend Jessica Rivera Walker. I am the pastor of
Good Shepherd Lutheran Church in Holland and kind of part
way to Zealand.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
How is everyone today? We're recording way early and it
is in the middle of one of those awful key waves, right,
so I can think we can say we're all really
hot today.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yes, we're very hot.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yes, although I am sitting in air conditioning for which
I am really grateful.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yes, the guys came ten thirty to this office to
put the air condition in the window because this church
doesn't have air conditioning on that today. So the guys
did come and put the window air in for me today.
So shout out to my guys. Good.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Oh, I'm so glad. Yes, So that would be downright
dangerous to not have air conditioning.

Speaker 2 (01:37):
Yeah, it was very warm when I got here this
morning about eight o'clock, but they came about ten thirty
quarter to eleven and put it in for me.

Speaker 1 (01:43):
So yeah, you know, I have lived hot places so
much of my life. But this is the truth, is that.
And one of my cousins told me about this, and
I read about it, and it is true. When you
live in cold places like western Michigan, your capillaries migrate
from the edge the tip tippy top of your skin

(02:06):
to deeper in your skin. And so it is harder
to cool off when you were from a cold climate
than it is if you're from a warm climate. So
for us, like it is more necessary for us to
be warm than be cool, so we get hotter in
the summer than say people other places.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
I believe that I believe that. I just don't. Yeah,
I do not, Like I'm not.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
A heat personating. Oh I'd rather be cold than.

Speaker 3 (02:32):
Hot, exactly. I would rather be bundled up than be hot.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
I beg to differ, but you know that's probably all
of my years in the warm climbs.

Speaker 2 (02:44):
Yeah, I think.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
You can always go swimming, you know, and especially here,
you can always go swimming and really cool down. Yes,
that is true. But you know, yeah, I know, I know,
I know. When I moved here. Gosh, this probably tells
everybody more than they want to know. But when I
moved here, the thing I was most afraid of was winter,
you know, because I have never loved winter. And so

(03:08):
I made rules for myself because you know, like maybe
maybe we want to say I made a rubric for myself.
That's the way we talk about it in our church,
you know, like it's kind of like a rule of life, right.
So my rubric was that in the middle of winter,
I could not complain more than once a day about
the weather. Okay, And if I make that rubric, then
I can't complain to myself even more than once day.

(03:31):
And so this winter I actually was on the edge
of loving it, and I felt like we did not
get enough snowstorms, which tells you how my rubric is
changing me just a little bit at a time, just
like the liturgy changes us a little at a time. Yes,
I know, I know. You can tell how Ruber not.

Speaker 2 (03:53):
To complain about the weather because Michigan people talk about
the weather a lot.

Speaker 3 (03:57):
Right, it is a Midwest strength thing. Our small talk
pretty much revolves around the weather.

Speaker 2 (04:06):
It will definitely come up, right.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
That's all fair, that's all fair. Well, we've got a
really find gospel today. Yes, yeah, do you all? Would
you like to read it back?

Speaker 2 (04:18):
I would be glad to. So this is from the
Gospel of Luke. There was a scholar of the law
who stood up to test Jesus and said, Teacher, what
must I do to inherit eternal life? Jesus said to him,
what is written in the law. How do you read it?
He said? And reply, you shall love the Lord your
God with all your heart, with all your being, with

(04:41):
all your strength, and with all your mind, and your
neighbor as yourself. He said, and reply to him, you
have answered correctly. Do this and you will live. But
because he wished to justify himself, he said to Jesus,
and who is my neighbor? Jesus replied. A man fell

(05:02):
victim to robbers as he went down from Jerusalem to Jericho.
They stripped and beat him and went off, leaving him
half dead. A priest happened by. A priest happened to
be going down the road, but when he saw him,
he passed by on the opposite side. Likewise, a levi
came to the place, and when he saw him, he

(05:23):
passed by on the opposite side. But a Samaritan traveler
who came down upon him, was moved with compassion at
the site. He approached the victim, pour oil and wine
over his wounds, and bandaged them. Then he lifted him
up on his own animal, took him to an inn
and cared for him. The next day, he took out

(05:45):
two silver corns and gave them to the innkeeper, with
the instruction take care of him. If you spend more
than what I have given you, I will repay you
on my way back. Which of these three, in your opinion,
was name or to the robber's victim, he answered, the
one who treated him with mercy. Jesus said to him,

(06:06):
go and do like.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Wise, I just love the Gospel of Luke too. When
we get this story, we get the prodigal son, we
get some of the stories that are in none of
the other gospels. Right, which is a classic, isn't it?

Speaker 3 (06:17):
It is? It is a classic. I wonder part of it?
You know? It is? It is a classic, and it's
and it's a parable that a lot of people are
familiar with and that in some ways gets kind of
woven into popular culture. Like you know, we call people
good Samaritans when they do good things. Right, Like where

(06:44):
I grew up in Minnesota, and Minnesota has a good
Samaritan law that if you I think it is, if
you like pass, like see a car accident happen or something,
and you don't call, then you can be you can be.

(07:06):
I mean I don't know how they would I don't
know how they would like figure that out, but basically
the law is sort of like you you have to
stop or you have to call nine one one if
you see a traffic accident happen. You know.

Speaker 2 (07:24):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (07:24):
And when they I was like in school when it
came out and they called it the good Samaritan laws,
So like it's it's become so well known that it's
that it's part of our slaying when we're talking about
doing a good deed for someone. And I wonder if
that diminishes the impact of the story just.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
Because it's interesting. The scholar is trying to test Jesus, right,
And I love the question and who is my neighbor?
So you know who can I eliminate? What's the lowest bar? Right?

Speaker 1 (07:54):
Who?

Speaker 2 (07:54):
Let's define? And said, knowing who your neighbor, let's define
what's the lowest Who could we leave? Is there anybody
I can leave out? Who is my neighbor?

Speaker 1 (08:04):
And I know to leave people out, don't we?

Speaker 2 (08:06):
I know people. I don't want these people or these people?
Are these people to be my neighbors? But these people
I'd be glad to help. Right, Who's who is my neighbor?
I love how Jesus just takes it and runs with it. Right,
I'll tell who your neighbors? Well?

Speaker 3 (08:21):
And it's so interesting too that that is this the
scholar's response, right, like his response to love alertic God,
call your heart and soul the mind, and love your
neighbor as yourself is to immediately be like yeah, but
like when you say love my neighbor like, I mean,
who who do I who can I not love? Right?

(08:42):
Which seems to me to be just a really odd
question because I, like, I personally don't think I would
ask that question. I'd be like, Okay, so my neighbor
seems to be everybody like I. It wouldn't occur to me,
I think to think, who does that not mean?

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Well, I think that's probably fair, And I mean I
think about I mean, it's hard to love everyone right now.
Especially let's just talk about our political climate, right, I mean,
we are a hugely divided country right now, are we

(09:28):
not political? And people often name themselves and call themselves
on one side of the political spectrum, and we're not
trying it all to hear or see or no people
on the other side. I mean, it's broken up families.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
Right right ships.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
I mean I am often told stories. And when I
say often, I don't mean like every day, but you know,
I hear her stories of like, oh yeah, we used
to hang out with them, but then this happened plitically
and I'm no longer in contact with them. And I've
heard it on both sides of the political spectrum. It's

(10:07):
not just one or the other. It is both sides,
and we can easily figure out ways of not loving
across the political spectrum, can't we.

Speaker 4 (10:16):
Well, yeah, I mean yeah, they are neighbors, you know,
the Children's anarchism.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Who is your neighbor? The answer was all my fellowmen
are my neighbor. Yes, But what about women? Just joking?

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Well, and that's I think that's the point too of
the parable is no, you can't like there are no loopholes. Yeah, right,
there are no loopholes. You you have to you have
to at the very least like I mean love also

(10:59):
in this text, like I tell parishioners a lot, you
know when they say this is like really hard for me,
pastro jest to and I'll say you. Love does not
mean like you do not have to agree with or
like somebody, but you have to not wish them harm.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
You have to not.

Speaker 3 (11:24):
Be you know, have animosity toward them. You have to
be willing to see them as beloved of God even
if you don't agree with them or like them.

Speaker 1 (11:39):
And that they bear the image of God.

Speaker 3 (11:41):
Right, and that they bear the image of God even
if it's really difficult to see that image and it's
been twisted by the world to almost unrecognizable. They still
bear the image of God. And that's what we're called
to do, is to see that right, to to like,

(12:02):
at the very least, not let your neighbor lay wounded
and bleeding on the ground, you know. And that and
even in the story like the Jesus makes the point
that the Samaritan went above and beyond, right, is the
Samaritan didn't have to be like, I'm going to pay
for his medical expenses and I'm going to check on

(12:25):
him on my way back, right, I mean, that was
that's above and beyond, you know. But the fact that
the other people, including the Holy people, like, wouldn't even
wouldn't even look at the man who's wounded on the ground.

Speaker 2 (12:44):
Interesting always to me. That Jesus uses a Samaritan is
Jews didn't like and they didn't speak to you right there.
But it's the Samaritan that stops and helps and is
the neighbor that shows mercy and love.

Speaker 3 (12:59):
Right.

Speaker 1 (13:01):
But you guys, you know, are you all familiar with
the Princeton Study. It was done probably thirty years ago now,
and it's this story of like, okay, so you know,
in seminary we often have to preach on this sort
of thing. And so they were having a class where
they had to preach on this at Princeton Theological Seminary,
and there was a door that everybody had to go
into in order to go to their class, and there

(13:24):
was a person who asked for help outside of this door,
and nobody who was preaching on the text stopped to help.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Oh boy, gosh, I know, I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (13:40):
Is that crazy? I mean, like I think we all
can get caught up in this, yes, yep. And that's
like the thing. It's not so much like I can't
believe those people did it, because like I don't always
stop and help when I when I could or should
you know, yes, And like that's like that's the other
piece of this, isn't it? Like we see I mean,

(14:02):
we see these kind of neighbors all the time, and
we can't always stop and help, and so like, you know,
how do we how do we just? You know, I mean,
I feel like someone just told me a couple of
weeks ago that I don't know that they came into
the church office once and I was too busy to see.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Them, and.

Speaker 1 (14:28):
I felt kind of badly about it and apologized but
it's really I mean, here's the question. Like, I think
this is asking us to love all people, and the
way that we begin to love all people is we
begin by loving the people closest to us, and then
we kind of move out from there.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
You know, yes, sometimes loving the people that drive us crazy.
Nobody drives delicately doing that to me? Okay, who are
the people that deliberately? So all right, I can step up,
be merciful, be loving. I think we still have boundaries
right and things that we can do. But there are

(15:10):
the people that just drive me absolutely nuts, and it's like, okay,
but still there's still your neighbor. Who is my neighbor? Everyone,
there's still your neighbor. Learning recently, I had a great
talk and I was listening to about radical hospitality, and
I think this plays into this too, that radical hospitality
says that we would stop and you know, this is

(15:33):
just a simple explanation somebody. I was in a group
in a different room and somebody wanted a cup of
coffee if there wasn't any left in the coffee pot.
And I said, well, you could go check in this
other room. And I thought, no, I'll take you. I'll
get up and go with you to see if if not,
I'll make you a compent of thought. That's radical hospitality.
Don't just send them somewhere about Get up and go
with them and show them because they weren't really sure

(15:55):
what room they were going to get up and go
with them. And I think that's just something very simple.
But I think for me, practice makes makes it better.
I get better as I practiced it, so when the small,
when the big things come, I would have practiced it
along the world. Same. Okay, you could be a neighbor
to a person that needs to coffee, be a neighbor
to the person that lock their keys in the car,

(16:16):
to see who needs help, so that when the big
things come, I'll recognize, oh I've done this before I can.

Speaker 1 (16:24):
I think it's exactly right. I think that's exactly right.
And I think about times people have been a neighbor
to me, you know, when it's really meant a lot
to me, right, because I don't know that you forget that,
you know. I remember when I was when I right
after I'd gotten divorced, I was just in that process.
Somebody came to my house and I was really embarrassed

(16:45):
about how dirty my house was because like I was,
you know, very alone. That's just the way I will
put it. I don't want to complain about my accent here,
but he wasn't really around at all, and so all
of it was on my shoulders. And I was really
embarrassed about how dirty my house was, and she insisted
on coming in and then helped me clean. And I
would have any other time, I would have been like, no,

(17:06):
you can't come in my house. And somehow I was
just so worn down with everything that I was having
to do that I let her in my house. And
I'm still like why did I let her in my house?
But she just like she just cleaned, you know, with
me in my kitchen, and she was like, I've been
trying to come up with something I can do to
tell you that I love you, And like that's that's
very good, Samaritan. You know, that's like in the real

(17:27):
you know, yes, And I'll never forget that. I will
never forget that, you know.

Speaker 2 (17:33):
Yep.

Speaker 3 (17:34):
Yeah, And sometimes I think that's.

Speaker 2 (17:38):
The message to.

Speaker 3 (17:40):
Sometimes I think people hear these parables and they think
that they have to do these really grand gestures right that, like,
you know, but most of us throughout our lives are
not going to have an experience in which we have
the opportunity to like swoop in and save somebody, right Like,

(18:02):
that's not what it is. But doing really everyday things
like walking with somebody to give them a cup of coffee,
or you know, going to your friend and just helping
them clean, those really small or small things can be

(18:32):
they have the same caliber. They they have the same
impact of letting somebody know that they're not alone, letting
somebody know that they've been seen, and using their burden somewhat.

Speaker 1 (18:48):
I think you're right. Well, I guess it's a time
for us to remember that the lowest bar is not
good enough, and that none of us have any loopholes,
and we are asked always to be the one who
shows mercy, right, yes, and that that would make us
very different than some of the other people in our

(19:09):
culture these days, wouldn't it. Yeah?

Speaker 3 (19:13):
I think, I mean, I think it's countercultural in every
age because the way that the world operates is still
like the the the mighty and powerful get the things,

(19:33):
and it's you know, most societies are operate on some
level of like if you're productive and you contribute to
society in some way, then your worth is seen, and
if you're not, then your worth is not seen. And
you know, I think this idea that there there is

(19:59):
no in and out, that we are all good loved
and we are all made in God's image and we
are to love all people is a model that in
every age in this world is going to be countercultural.
It is going to set us apart. I think what
is interesting about maybe our particular time period is, you know,

(20:24):
at least most of us can remember a time where
things like empathy and compassion weren't considered vices. They were
considered virtue, right, I mean, we still were expected to
have even the smallest degree of empathy or compassion. What

(20:47):
seems to be different now is that there is this
narrative that's getting louder that says that empathy and compassion
are not virtue somehow, And so even the idea in
the last ten years of like being sort of your

(21:09):
basic level of kindness has become radical. You know, where
things like, you know, I see posters like in my
doctor's office, there are posters that are like we will
not accept you, like threatening our staff or being verbally abusive,

(21:30):
and I'm like, I don't know, why does that have
to be stated? So obviously isn't isn't that sort of
common sense that you would treat nurses and doctors and
people with respect, But it isn't anymore, And so even
doing the bare minimum becomes somewhat radical, which is which

(21:53):
is difficult.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
I think too, we've gotten to a point in our
society to where we've become afraid of each other that
somebody looks different, somebody speaks differently, than we're afraid of them.
We don't. Many many years ago, I was I lived,
I grew up in a very small town. So I
went to Cincinnati at a conference, right a huge city. Well,
I'd never seen homeless people before. I was like, oh,

(22:16):
it was really awkward. And today I helped with you know,
I helped get stuff for the homeless owner and big rapids.
I really I made that an effort to say, and
when somebody was somebody's getting a home, we helped furnish it.
What do you need, you know, to reach out? And
I think that I think we were. I was afraid
to start with, but it was like their human beings,
their God's creatures, you know, we're all We're all going

(22:37):
to be broken somehow, we all are open somehow, so
and there's going to be a time when we're going
to need help too. But it opened my eyes to
not be afraid. My mother's was really a great example,
and she often embarrassed us. I remember Disney, if were someone.
We were at Dizity. This woman who didn't speak English was
very sick and she was out, and my mother had
to go over and help. Was like, don't do We

(22:58):
were kind of embarrassed for my mother. She didn't care.
She went over and help this woman. She got her help.
She didn't speak my mother always speaks English, but she
was out there helping her. What do you need? What
can we get? Let's get some help. And so my
mother raised us like that too. And my dad would
help anybody, but he probably would have initiated it. But
my mother, she would be out there initiating the help.

(23:18):
My dad would have stopped and helped anybody in the
days when you could do that. Sometimes you can't always
stop now. But but my mother taught us to do
it anyway.

Speaker 4 (23:27):
She did it.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
Even though we were embarrassed. She did it and she
didn't care. We were just kids, probably doing her high,
embarrassed of the whole thing, but she I'll never forget that, right,
I would never forget that. I'm old now, but back
then it was it was embarrassing, but she didn't. She
did it anyway. So I think we have to be
careful not to be afraid if somebody looks different, doesn't
speak the same way we do, doesn't believe the way

(23:49):
we You know, if they need help, they need help,
and she's there, your neighbor, go help.

Speaker 3 (23:54):
Her, right.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
I love that story. That's so beautiful. Oh you know, yeah,
I mean, like I love how we're saying that. It
is really the little things, you know that there's so
much that we can do that. I think there's so
much that we can do that remind people that we
love them, you know, even sometimes just even a smile.
Do you know how like you've gotten a smile when

(24:14):
you're like in a I don't know, when you're in
a foul mood and somebody smiles at you, and you're like, oh,
that's you know, okay, okay.

Speaker 3 (24:22):
You know, yeah, That's what I tell the kids a lot,
you know, because sometimes I think kids are like, well,
I can't do anything like big things, and so I mean,
I keep telling them, like in the children's sermons and stuff,
you can smile at somebody. You can if you see
that your friend or someone at your school looks sad,

(24:44):
you can just ask them like, hey, is everything okay?
You know, you can sit next to a kid who's
sitting by themselves at lunch like those those are things
that you can do that that really do you make
a big impact, especially to kids who are lonely or
to kids who are having a rough time, you know,

(25:07):
and just letting reminding kids like the smallest thing that
you do for another person is still something that you
that you're showing love. And that's a way to show
Jesus to other people.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
I love that it's still mercy, it's still compassion Jesus. Exactly.
You're small.

Speaker 3 (25:29):
It has to be nice, right exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
You know. There's one of our colleagues, probably one of
my favorite ones. Our colleagues are for those of who
don't know, those are like our prayers that we often
pray at the beginning of the service. We say. It
kind of collects all the thoughts. There's this line in it,
Oh God, whose property is always to show mercy?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
You know?

Speaker 1 (25:50):
I just love that so much, you know, like you know,
if God, if that's God's property, is mercy, like you know,
that also has to be ours too. The one who showed.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Him, the one who showed him mercy yep. Yeah. And
the style of the law knew that, which one of
the three showed yes.

Speaker 1 (26:09):
Yeah, It's kind of obvious, isn't it.

Speaker 3 (26:12):
He knew yes in that story. It's there is a
very obvious right answer, Like I would if if if
the scholar of the law hadn't gotten that right, I
would have very much questioned his maybe intelligence there there.
That's definitely one of those like I know what the
right answer is.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
We have to go back to school, right.

Speaker 1 (26:35):
Good for you, one hundred percent. Well, thanks you all,
and we have come to the end of our time today.
But I really hope that you can join Pastor Jessica
and Beth and myself in maybe finding one way this
week that we can be a neighbor to an unlikely person.

(26:56):
Had a wonderful week.