Soundings March 16 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, and welcome to Soundings, a public affairs presentation
of iHeartMedia.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Each week we have.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
An ecumenical discussion and reflection on the scriptures and how
they apply to life and to the world. My name
is Shannon Jamal Hollomans, and I am the pastor at
First Congregational United Church of Christ in Lowell, Michigan, about
thirty miles east of Grand Rapids. Two of our regulars
are here with us this morning, and I will invite
them to introduce themselves, starting with Father Mike.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Hi, my name is Father Mike. I'm the Paulist father
Roman Catholic Priests serving at the Cathedral Saint Andrew in
the Hartside neighborhood of Grand Rapids.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
Good morning. I am Reverend Ruth Beoo Olson, and I
serve as a minister of Mayflower Congregational Church on the
southeast side of Grand Rapids.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Good morning to each of you. Good morning.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
I hope you've been able to enjoy some of this
warmer weather that we've been experiencing. I went for a
lovely walk here yesterday.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
Spring is here ish, Yeah, I don't want to drink it.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
Amazing what a difference the sun makes it's just amazing. Yeah, underestimated, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
I feel like Spring, like no other season, is such
a reminder to me of God's faithfulness, of the turning
of seasons, that new life will come from those things
that we thought were dead, and that God is faithful
in sustaining and providing. I don't know, I just I
really love spring for that reason, just watching it unfold.

Speaker 3 (01:43):
And it's so fitting that the Eastern Easter happens in spring,
you know, and is popping up everywhere. Yeah, gives us
new life?

Speaker 4 (01:53):
Yeah too, Right, there's a lot of mud, yes, right,
there's like this visceral like it's dirty. Spring is kind
of like dirty and messy, and it takes a while
until everything kind of sprouts and settles. It's an interesting metaphor,
isn't it, for all that all the things?

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Yeah, for sure, for sure. Have either of you been
watching Jackie in Shadow the bald eagles in Big Bear Valley, California,
who there has been a live stream of their nest
for the last couple of weeks, a few weeks, because
they have these eggs that have hatched.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
Now, Oh, I had not heard that.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Okay, well look it up.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
Look up Jackie in shadow, and they have a nest
and their babies are all here, all three of them.
The friends of Big Bear Valley watch them every year,
and the last couple of years have been disappointed because
their eggs have not hatched, and this year all three
of them did. So it's fun to watch the live
feed on YouTube twenty four and if you wanted, but

(03:02):
to watch the goings on in the nests. And it
reminded me actually of our passage today from Luke, because
it's about a hen gathering her brood in a nest,
and it reminded me a little bit of these eagles.
So we have two different readings today. The Catholic Church
reads from Luke nine, the story of the Transfiguration, which

(03:26):
we talked about a couple of weeks ago for Transfiguration Sunday,
and so we won't be reading that full passage today,
but we may be referencing it. And the other reading
today is from Luke thirteen, and I will read verses
thirty one through thirty five, starting at verse thirty one.

(03:48):
At that very hour, some Pharisees came to Jesus and
said to him get away from here, for Herod wants
to kill you, He said to them, go and tell
that fox for me. Listen, I'm casting out demons and
performing cures today and tomorrow, and on the third day
I will finish my work. Yet, today, tomorrow and the

(04:09):
next day I must be on my way, because it
is impossible for a prophet to be killed outside of Jerusalem. Jerusalem, Jerusalem,
the city that kills prophets and stones those who are
sent to it. How often have I desired to gather
your children together as a hen gathers her brood under

(04:29):
her wings. And you were not willing see Your house
is left to you. And I tell you you will
not see me until the time comes when you say,
blessed is the one who comes in the name of
the Lord. This is the gospel of our Lord, Jesus Christ.
So what a story, sage.

Speaker 4 (04:47):
It's so just bizarre.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah, things going on?

Speaker 3 (04:53):
Right?

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Yeah? Yeah, it opens.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
You know, we hear that the Pharisee are trying to
warn Jesus that Herod wants to kill them, and Jesus
sort of stands up and says, you know, I've got
work to do, so I'm not going anywhere, even though
he knows the risk.

Speaker 4 (05:13):
But it's not like the Phariseason Harod were buddies. Yeah,
Like it's not like they were really they were in
cahoots or it's not like they were really concerned. Yeah,
just say like you need to get out of the way,
and right, it's all ruse.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Yeah, it's interesting.

Speaker 4 (05:34):
I love it when it's like, go tell that fox.
When you think of the fox and the henhouse and
all these like nursery rhymes and things come come to
their ends and we're going to gather them and they're
gonna be fine, and you tell that fox.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, I can imagine Jesus saying it with some sass.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
For sure.

Speaker 4 (06:05):
Right, His fox actually a stronger term, you know, there's
a yeah, great guy.

Speaker 1 (06:12):
Yeah, But Jesus seems to have a sense of his
mission here, of what he's there to do. That's what
stands out to me as I read it, that he
knows the risk and his heart is breaking for these people,
and he's resolute in doing what needs to be done.
At this point, I do wonder how much he knew,

(06:34):
you know, because he was fully human and fully divine,
you know, how much knowledge God gave him what was
about to happen. But here it seems like he does
know to a certain degree what's going on.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
And all of this today, tomorrow, on the next day,
all of this patterning that fits the Easter narrative. I
have this on the third day and the third day,
and the third day I'm casting out demons performing cures
today and tomorrow and on the third day I finished
my work. All these allusions to that. Yeah, which is interesting.

(07:13):
Yet today, tomorrow and the next day it must be
on my way? Is that a four fore casting? Foreshadowing?
That just a figure of speech at that time.

Speaker 3 (07:25):
Yeah, I haven't noticed that, but I mean it seems
linked in some way, you know, like you said, maybe
there was some uh kind of phrase that was often
used or commonly used, some sort of saying that was
like that. But he does use the you know, the

(07:46):
three sort of a three parter today, tomorrow, on the
following day, and of course, you know we see that
again on Good Friday, Holy Saturday at Easter in the
third day being the one in which he was which
he was resurrected, of course. And yeah, and I think two.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
It it's.

Speaker 3 (08:09):
Pastor Shannon, like the what you're saying about the mission,
and it does seem like he has a plan, and
who knows if he knows exactly what's at the end
of the plan there, you know, there are other times
in which it seems like he doesn't. But but he
knows that he's been he has a purpose, right and

(08:32):
and he's moving toward it, and he knows that it's
not done at this point in time, and it's and
he's not meant to stay where he is. Yeah, And
for me, I mean for me, it's it's emblematic of Lent.
And I find Lent to be a time in which
I can reflect on my own mission. It's it's it's

(08:56):
a it's sort of a quieter, a stiller time I
guess spiritually, and I can think about, Okay, what is
my what is my mission as a as a priest?
What is my mission as a human being? What is
my mission here? What is my purpose? And am I
have I strayed from it? Am I keeping true to it?

(09:18):
Do I believe that God has a purpose for me?
Even I think these are all good questions for me
and then for others to to grapple with a little
bit during Lent and think and pray about knowing that
God has put us all here for a purpose and

(09:39):
has a mission or missions for all of us. I
think that can be a time to reflect upon what
that is and how we can better align continue to
align ourselves with that and with with Christ's mission as well.

Speaker 4 (09:59):
M hm. Yeah, that's interesting. What I'm assuming that both
of you had ash Wednesday services and you put ashes
on people's port. Yes, yes, yes, I always find out
of all the rituals and all the services we do,

(10:23):
that one in some ways affects me the most.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Hm.

Speaker 4 (10:31):
And I've been sitting with that this week like it's
it's so tangible.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
M M.

Speaker 4 (10:38):
I don't you know, I look at the verse where
I you know, listen, I'm casting out demons and performing
cures today. That's not regular in my life. I don't
cast out demons and perform if I mean, that would
be very exciting the rhythm of my ministry. But once
a year.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
Touch people.

Speaker 4 (10:57):
I mean I we lay hands on for people, but
skinned to skin my hand on someone's like skinned to
skin to remind someone that they're dying. At the beginning
of a Lenten season, like father, Mike. To your point,

(11:18):
I I go into a real deep interior place during
line and to start it with that is a it's
something mm hmmm the words for it, but it's it's moving,
it's it's deep, it's confusing. Yeah, Yeah, experienced that on

(11:42):
on ash Wednesday. What is that like for you?

Speaker 2 (11:45):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (11:45):
For me, it's it's always a moving experience and and
a reminder of what what we're doing and why we're
doing it for the hope we have even in death
and the death that's that's sort of a certain part
of life. But this reminder that we need to hold
to during this season where we're so acutely aware of

(12:07):
our death, that life is at the end of it,
that even though the world says death is the final
answer in so many ways, that it's not right. That
we have the promise of spring, that things that die
like seeds can be borne into new life, and that
the promise of the resurrection is.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
Always ahead of us. Right.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
Our congregation is focusing on the theme of transforming hope
in this season, the power of the hope that we
have in the Gospel to transform us and our hearts
and our minds and our lives, and through our lives,
transform this world. Right, because this hope is not just
for us alone. And it's not just an interior feeling,

(12:50):
but it's something that because we are changed, the world
around us can be changed, right, and it sort of
sets us on that mission. And I feel like that's
sort of what's hapening with Jesus in this passage. You know,
he is he's compelled by such deep emotion and reflection,
you know, wanting to gather up Jerusalem as a hen

(13:11):
gathers her children under her wings.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
It's it's a beautiful image, but.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
I feel like that's sort of what Jesus is grappling
with here, this deep inner wrestling with life and death.
And the way that he continued on his mission, compelled
by that deep, deep conviction to move forward and to
ultimately defeat death. Right, It's it's really beautiful, and it's yeah,

(13:39):
it's something that definitely this season is a time to
reflect on.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
Certainly in.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
My tradition, Ash Wednesday sets the tone for all of Lent,
and it's powerful for a lot of people. I think
they say that of all the days of the years,
it's a third most attend at Catholic parishes after Eastern Christmas.

(14:05):
And and we don't even consider what we call the
Holy Day of obligation. So there's no like there's nothing
that's there's no authority pressing on people to go. But
it is the beginning of Lent, and I think people do.
There's something powerful about receiving the ashes on your forehead.
And I think I think of two things when when

(14:27):
I think about as Wednesday and ashes in general, as
we use them. That you know, well, one of the
one of the sayings that we can say when we
when we put ashes on on somebody, one of them
is repent and believe in the Gospel. So it just
speaks of the conversion experience in which Lent is calling

(14:50):
us to. And the other one is from dust you
have common to dust, you shall return, And that is
in a reminder that that we actually do come from dust,
that God created us from from dust, from nothing, really

(15:12):
he created the land and then from there, you know,
he from he says, he blew us into existence. But
whatever material was there, I think he was using to
create us. And and I think so it shows us
the fragility of life. I believe that ash is just

(15:36):
so the fragility of life, but also that we have
a God who created us out of something so seemingly
meaningless and created us to be in his own image,
and that he created us for eternal life. That the
ashes reminded us of the fragility, the passing away of

(15:57):
this life on earth, but that our God had created
us from that same thing, has given us life eternal,
something that is far and above what we could even imagine.
And so I think for me, both of those are

(16:18):
important markers and lent is to think about. And I think,
to Pastor Shannon's point earlier, it speaks to Jesus's humanity
and divinity. You know, our, in our humanity, life is
so fragile. Jesus knew that as well as anybody. And
yet as human beings made in God's image and likeness,

(16:42):
that we have life eternal as well. And so to
balance those two things, realizing that this life is passing
and I'm here to do what I can, but really
my mission, my purpose is informed by this idea. There's

(17:04):
reality of an eternal life that I'm that I've inherited
and that I'm moving toward moving along. So yeah, those two, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (17:16):
Thank you for sharing that. I think there's something, and
I use this term in my homily, there's something we
almost crave or need that reminder that we're mortal.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
I don't.

Speaker 4 (17:33):
It's fascinating. We did ASH Wednesday and COVID outside. I
don't know what you guys did in COVID, but we
were standing on the front stet. There's a big kind
of circle drive in front of the front door of
the church, and I stood on the steps in the cold.
It was course a terrible, cold, gloomy day, which kind

(17:53):
of fits right, and people from our congregation could drive
up and receive ashes from you know, kind of a
safe distance, and it was so weird, you know GOVID.
But I shared this story that there was a we're
on a fairly busy road and a car did an

(18:16):
abrupt and people kind of speed down Robinson Road an
abrupt stop like like this car kind of crazily drove
up the driveway and this woman jumped out and she
came to me kind of breathless, it's what you doing?
And I said, oh, and I thought, okay, well, we're
a church and it's lent. I went to the whole thing.
She's like, no, no, no, I know all that.

Speaker 2 (18:37):
She said.

Speaker 4 (18:38):
I just had to be here, so I don't go
to this church. I don't know you, but I had
to be here like it's desperate, frantic, And I said, okay,
well i'm you know, and I did the ashes and
reminded her of her mortality and it's like her whole body,
her shoulders relaxed, and she kind of exhaled. She said, oh,

(19:00):
thank you. M hm hm, you're thanking me for telling
you your dyet.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
You know.

Speaker 4 (19:09):
But I think to your point, to be reminded that
yes we're mortal, and yes this is not all there is. Yeah, No,
to your point about this, this hope and this transformed hope.
What do I do with all the angst and the
fear and that this world just bombards me with, there's

(19:29):
almost a relief and in saying yeah, you're you know,
you're this is not all there is? But how do
we in the flip side to your point, to your point,
father Mike, and what is your mission and what do
you do with that? It should propel us right into
whatever our mission is individually and corporately to transform around us. Yeah,

(19:52):
never forget this stranger coming to a stranger in the
middle of a gloomy day. Yeah, thank you for reminding
me I'm dying. Interesting work we do huh people.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
Yes, yeah, our our church had a testimony testimony last
week Sunday where I invited the member of another church
to come and just share some of his story with
us in lieu of a in lieu of a message,
and he shared about his stepmother and just the powerful
ways she testified to the Gospel to him as a

(20:32):
young boy when she joined his family I think when
he was nine, and she passed away a couple of
years ago, but for her it was as he reflected
on the legacy she left in his life, he'd gone
through a number of years where he wasn't comfortable being
part of the church, didn't feel welcome in the church,
and and her faithful testimony to him was through these

(20:55):
small acts of grace, right, these little things like and
embrace or a consistent word testimony to the power of.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
God in his life.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
That she really spoke to him, and not through these
huge events, these huge things, but just through the little
things that she did to me. That was a really
good reminder that this mission that we're on, that you know,
sometimes we can question our purpose and why God has
us even here, but to think about those little things

(21:27):
that we do and the seeds they plant in the
lives of others, the seeds of hope, the seeds of life.
I think it can be really powerful, especially when you
hear someone reflect on it right that the power that
it's had to remind someone that they are not alone,
that God is still with them and God is still
working in their lives, it can be really powerful. Any

(21:48):
final thoughts before we close today.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
I was reminded of I've been reminded as it in
terms of mission and God giving us all a purpose.
And I've been reminded the last week or so of
the Oscar Wilde quote be who you are everybody else
is taken. And I think again, that's another thing for

(22:14):
me for that is I reflect on things like, Okay,
what is what is God calling me to do? I
don't have to do what he or she is doing,
and whether I'm not a good at it or not,
but like there is something that God is calling me
to do. And I think again, it's it's just a
good reflection for me during during lent to think about that,

(22:37):
just to be who I am, be who God has
already made me to be, who God has continues to
call me to be. And that's not only sufficient that's super.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Well.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
Thank you both, Father Mike and Ruth for this conversation
and on behalf of all of us here at Soundings.
We wish you all a reflective lent where you can. Yes,
Father Mike reminded us be who you are because everyone
else has taken.

Speaker 2 (23:06):
God bless