Soundings March 2 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, and welcome to Soundings, a public affairs presentation
of iHeartMedia. Each week, we have an ecumenical discussion and
reflection on the scriptures and how they apply to life
and the world. My name is Shannon Jamal Hollomans, and
I'm the pastor of First Congregational United Church of Christ
in Lowell, Michigan, about thirty miles east of Grand Rapids.

(00:23):
There's another one of our regulars here today, and I
will invite her to introduce herself to you.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Now, Good morning.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
I am Reverend Ruth Belle Olsen, and I serve a
Mayflower Congregational.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Church on the southeast side of Grand Rapids. Good morning,
Pastor Ruth. Good morning, Shannon. Pastor Shannon. How do you
like to be addressed?

Speaker 1 (00:45):
My congregation typically calls me pastor Shannon. How about yours?

Speaker 3 (00:51):
I called all kinds of things, yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Baby, pastor Pastor Ruth.

Speaker 3 (00:57):
Yeah. It's interesting how we don't use reverend as much
as maybe in a different era. I mean, my title
is Reverend Ruth Bellowlson and that's how I just introduced myself.
But it's interesting that pastor is more common than reverend.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, I thought it always was I don't know, but yeah, I.

Speaker 1 (01:18):
Think, yeah, I think maybe as as the role has
evolved over the years, maybe that's changed a little. I
still use reverend, you know, for signing things, signature lines,
and if I'm at speaking at a formal event, I'll
often get introduced as reverend. But yeah, I think maybe
that is one of the ways it's evolved in the
Protestant Church over the years, is that we've become more

(01:43):
pastor than reverend. Pastor does sound more pastoral. It sounds
a little gentler to me, But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah. Yeah. One of the kids in the youth grew
up here just calls me Ruth.

Speaker 3 (01:58):
There's no okay, there's no deference really whatsoever.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
That's okay.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, kids, an Argus group just called me Jamal, which
is my maiden name. There you are.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
That's great maiden name though, right, a good one.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Well, it's been an interesting time.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
It seems like the news is always filled with stories
of things that are changing, rules that are changing, laws
being passed, and it can be pretty anxious. I've noticed
in my community and congregation, you know, a lot of
anxieties go up with all these changes, and especially concern
about those people who are affected by changes. So I'm wondering,

(02:42):
pastor Ruth, do you have any practices that you that
you have in place right now to help you not
become so anxious in the midst of all this anxiety
over change, or to convey to the people around you
of peace and not anxiety right now.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, I think I said this before on this show,
that I've really limited my news intake and just things
that I think we know will be upsetting. Whatever that is,
what you know, whatever the whatever, the influx that is

(03:26):
creating the anxiety. So often it's things that are happening
far away and for me to concentrate on who is
right in front of me and what are their needs,
which doesn't mean I.

Speaker 2 (03:38):
Turned a blind eye, you know.

Speaker 3 (03:39):
Like I think I mentioned this before too, A dear
friend who's in Goma and the Democratic Republic of Congo,
many many, many people I'm connected to in my previous
work connected with relief and development. So all of the
USAID decisions and some of those, you know, kind of
the rug being pulled out from under people doing really

(04:00):
tremendous work around the world. It's not that I don't care,
but I can't do anything about it right now today?
I mean, I can pray, which is the least you
can do, the most you can do. But who's the
person that's sitting in my office with with a need
right now? Who's thee that needs a hug, needs a

(04:25):
word of encouragement?

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Who?

Speaker 3 (04:26):
You know what, what's the thing right now today? Who
needs a meal? So I think kind of that rule
of life, that benedicting rule of life. What are the
things that I'm just doing every day that are simple,
that are reminding me that.

Speaker 2 (04:41):
I'm a human. I'm a human made in God's image,
as are the people around me.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
And what does it mean to just step into their
everyday things. I don't know if that's kind of a
simple answer, but.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Well that's I think that's a wonderful perspective. You know what,
do we have the power to do something about? And
that can be hard to do, especially when the news
is overwhelming. I do really feel for the younger generation
right that is so connected on Instagram and TikTok and
all these things and hearing the barrage of news and

(05:16):
you know, filtering all that and what filters are they
using to filter all that? And it's easy to become
overwhelmed if you aren't focused on Okay, what's in front
of me? What can I actually do something about?

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Right?

Speaker 3 (05:28):
Yeah, And I think I've heard several people recently talk
about their interaction, desire to be involved, or their involvement
in super local politics and local grassroots initiatives for things
like caring for your neighbor. And that's not a bad thing.

(05:49):
In fact, that's really a beautiful thing because those are
the people that are in your community, the people that
you can have the most impact with. So so the
particularization of these these big, huge, you know, hard things
that are happening to say, well, who.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Is my neighbor? For sure? Like, legit, who's my neighbor? Yeah?
What do they need? And how can I step in
with the love of Christ? What does that look like?
And where can I affect change?

Speaker 3 (06:17):
And where can my voice be leveraged for the most
benefit for the most people. I think those are really
good questions for us to ask ourselves.

Speaker 2 (06:27):
Yeah, in each.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
Other, right, and spur one each other, spur one another
on to loving our neighbor.

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Yeah for sure.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Well let's get into our passage then for this morning,
we're still working our way through the Book of Luke.
We're at chapter nine this week, and the electionary reading
it comes from verses twenty eight through forty three a
the first line of verse forty three. So it's the
story of the transfiguration and of a healing, and we'll

(06:56):
read those story side by side, starting at verse twenty eight. Now,
about eight days after Jesus said these things, Jesus took
with him Peter and John and James, and they went
up on the mountain to pray. While Jesus was praying,
the appearance of his face changed, and his clothes became

(07:17):
as bright as a flash of lightning. Suddenly they saw
two men, Moses and Elijah, talking to him. They appeared
in glory and were speaking about his exodus, which he
was about to fulfill in Jerusalem. Now Peter and his
companions were weighed down with sleep, but as they awoke,

(07:37):
they saw his glory and the two men who stood
with him. Just as they were leaving him, Peter said
to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here.
Let us set up three tenths, one for you, one
for Moses, and one for Elijah, not realizing what he
was saying while he was saying this, a cloud came

(07:58):
and overshadowed them, terrified as they entered the cloud. Then
from the cloud came a voice that said, this is
my son, my chosen listen to him. When the voice
had spoken, Jesus was found alone, and they kept silent,
and in those days told no one any of the

(08:19):
things they had seen. On the next day, when they
had come down from the mountain, a great crowd met him.
Just then a man from the crowd shouted, teacher, I
beg you look at my son. He is my only child.
Suddenly a spirit seizes him, and all at once he shrieks.
It convulses him, and he foams at the mouth. It

(08:41):
mauls him and will scarcely leave him. I begged your
disciples to cast it out, but they could not. Jesus answered, you,
faithless and perverse generation, how much longer must I put
up with you? Bring your son here. While he was
being brought forward, the demon dashed him to the ground

(09:03):
in convulsions. But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit. Healed the
boy and gave him back to his father, And all
were astounded at the greatness of God. This is a
gospel of our Lord. Jesus Christ, Thanks be to God.
Two pretty powerful stories with.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
The law, right yeah, yeah, where do we start? Man?

Speaker 1 (09:24):
This is the Transfiguration is one of those stories that
you know, it brings me back to hearing it as
a kid, and I just it's always been a hard
one to wrap my head around. You know, as a kid,
I saw things black, white, right wrong, you know, and
I just remember then it being so confounding, you know,

(09:44):
what was happening there, just wanting an easy answer to
what was going on. Almost like the disciples seemed to
like be confounded by what was going on and wanting
wanting an easy explanation or wanting something they could do
about it. And as I look at it as I
get older, I really don't know that I've come a
long way and understanding this passage, I still still it's

(10:07):
it's pretty confusing, right yeah.

Speaker 3 (10:09):
And the components, there's so many different components that and
I think if if obviously with a more Jewish lens,
the impact of why why Moses and Elijah and why
those two.

Speaker 2 (10:25):
And why they're there?

Speaker 3 (10:26):
And I mean they're the layers upon layers of significance
that I think we missed just because we're not coming
at a Jewish lens and like the building of the let's.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Build some structures. We're like, oh, that's weird.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
But then if you're like, oh, there was this thing
called the Festival of Boots and they set up these
you know, like there there's this huge backstory that we
miss and just looks look kind of this strange what's
Peter doing? But I love Peter so much because he's
just bumbles along and I can still relate, like there's
so much earnestness, and yet I mean they're falling asleep,

(11:03):
they don't get it. I mean even the text saying
he's not realizing.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
What he's saying.

Speaker 4 (11:09):
Yeah, you know, like he wakes up and he's like, hey,
you know you when you wake up and all of
a sudden, it's uh, you know, if you're waking from
a dream or you're you know, you doze and you
wake up and you are so disoriented, it's I just
picture him.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
Like, wait a minute, Oh, what's happening.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
And that impulse to do something right, that impulse to act,
that impulse to be productive, that impulse to want to
impress and show up, And I just think it's so
funny that the text literally says that he's not realizing
what he was saying. How often do we do that?
We just react like you're missing this, you're missing this thing,

(11:49):
Like here's Jesus and Moses and Elijah on God's voice
and how what are you doing whiting to build something?

Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yeah? Take it in man, like this is amazing.

Speaker 3 (12:04):
Oh we got to scuttle around and what's he doing
like picking up branches?

Speaker 2 (12:08):
And yeah?

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, Well, I think so often our reaction in the church, right,
we want to we want to fix things, we want
to make things better when we identify something that's wrong,
And sometimes I think we just need to notice what
God's doing and follow God's lead, right, And that doesn't
mean necessarily doing something or creating something new or establishing

(12:32):
a program, right, which I can be our instincts.

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah yeah, And you mentioned that like when something's wrong,
wanting to fix it. But there's also like in this situation,
there wasn't necessarily something wrong.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Yeah, it was like we just are impetus to to
do not be.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
I miss this moment running around. First of all, you
were sleeping, so you missed a lot of it. And
and then I mean, if if we if we believe
that it.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Was Mount Tabor that they were on.

Speaker 3 (13:09):
It's not like the highest mountain, but you're at what
about two thousand feet so, and it's a winding you know,
probably a lot of switchbacks and stuff to get there.
So you have this kind of journey and I'm sure
they're tired, so so understandable that you'd be sleeping, but

(13:32):
to wake up and have.

Speaker 2 (13:34):
Gosh, that says Jesus's face changed. What does that mean?

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (13:39):
Yeah, right, his faded like just a glow, like all
of a sudden, he had the kind of a gland.

Speaker 2 (13:43):
You know, what do you call it glow.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Up or.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
Prettier or like his face changed? I yeah? Or is
that kind of I mean, I know that a lot.

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Of scholars look at this as like the transfiguration is
where sort of humanity and divinity kind of collide or
having on Earth are kind of like eating at this place.
And so does Jesus's face change in the sense that
like it's sort of less human?

Speaker 2 (14:11):
Yeah, I just can't really fascinating that.

Speaker 3 (14:15):
But it's like, not only is he glowing in these
garments that are sort of angelic in that sense that
when you think of the white and sparkly. That's kind
of I think, sort of the illusion. But man, that
is face changed. Yeah, yeah, fascinating detail. Yeah, and they
appeared in glory, right, what does that look like?

Speaker 1 (14:37):
What does that mean? And that in verse thirty one,
you know, it says they were speaking about his Exodus,
which Jesus was about to fulfill in Jerusalem. And you know,
we hear the word Exodus and we think of the
Book of the Bible, but that journey that Jesus was on,
that that Jesus was very well aware of, that maybe
the disciples weren't always aware of, but that he was

(14:58):
on this journey traveling to Jerusalem, that something was coming.
And as we go into Lent, which begins soon, thinking
about that journey that Jesus was on and the companions
with him on that journey, Peter, James and John and
others right, who didn't necessarily understand everything that was happening.
And Jesus may not have understood everything that was happening either.

(15:20):
He just knew something big was ahead, right, and that
he had a mission to fulfill. But that journey, that Exodus,
it's powerful image. And I just think of the journey
that we have in faith right, our own exodus of
leaving behind the things that we've committed to leave behind,

(15:42):
the addictions, the habits that consistently separate us from others
that make our lives so much harder, and that journey
toward God that we're all taking right to try and
see God more clearly, to live in ways more faithfully
representative of the love of God and its action in
our life. That can just it can just be really

(16:06):
profound to think about. I don't think about it often enough,
this journey and marking the journey with milestones and remembering
that that there is greater purpose to my life and
to who I am and what I'm doing. Yeah, it's
it's a challenge, I think, to each of us.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, And of course he's seen that term exodus when
we're looking at Moses and Elijah being in the same space, right.

Speaker 1 (16:36):
Yeah, because Moses had a transfiguration of his own.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Right, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (16:43):
I mean both Moses and Elijah had these kind of mountaintop experiences,
and I think that if we look at if we
each look at our own lives, I'm sure we could
map out maybe not huge mountaintops, maybe they're hills. I
don't know, for some people, maybe bigger mountaintops. But yeah,
I think it's a great reminder what what is the

(17:04):
exodus that each of us.

Speaker 2 (17:05):
Are embracing or rejecting or right?

Speaker 3 (17:12):
I think of Moses, Gosh, Moses saying not me, not me,
Pick somebody out.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Elijah too, right, pick somebody else, not me.

Speaker 3 (17:21):
Maybe that's part of the story, Jesus saying I'm I'm in,
I'm in. Yeah, not doing that. I mean, there's the
made this cup pass before me. But there's also a resolute,
this determination, this resolute decision that yeah, I mean the

(17:43):
right the versus preceding our text this morning really are
take up your cross and yeah, want to save your
life you're gonna lose it, and I mean verse twenty seven.
But truly, I tell you there's some standing here who
will not taste deep before they see the Kingdom of God.
There's this real foreshadowing of what's coming.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
And that it's going to be painful and hard and
going to be transformation for all of them, right, Peter especially,
but all of all the people involved. You know, I
don't know about you. I relate a lot to Moses
and Moses's you know words, you know, like, pick somebody
else please, you know, I've got a stutter or you know,

(18:23):
did you see my brother over there? You know, growing
up in the conservative religious you know, tradition that I
grew up in, I didn't really have imagination for a
woman being a leader in a church, right, So I
I thought, you know, I'll be a pastor's wife someday maybe,
but that's being a pastor is not for me. And
and part of my own you know, transformation has been

(18:45):
God inviting me to think bigger and to wonder and
to expand my understanding of what is possible with God
by by being stretched into the role of being a pastor,
right because it wasn't something I ever imagined for myself
or wanted for myself. And God just said, no, I've
got I've got bigger things for you. Just sit back

(19:06):
and uh and let me change you. And that's that's
been hard. That's been hard.

Speaker 3 (19:11):
It's not easy, No, But the hard thing that we
think about that the hardest things in life are the
things that have the most value. Yeah. Yeah, things we
have to wrestle wrestle with and things we have to
fight for, and that those are the things that are
the most meaningful.

Speaker 1 (19:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, And I think this.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Idea that we're going to just staal along in our
lives looking for places of comfort.

Speaker 1 (19:37):
Mm hm hm.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
Right, that's if we just eat you know, potato chips
and watch TV all day. What that's not life?

Speaker 3 (19:47):
No, although there are days that sounds really nice.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
Right, but that's what what's really what's really meaningful to us,
It's it's the sacrifice.

Speaker 3 (19:58):
And the things that I'm willing the things I'm willing
to live for. That are the things I'm willing to
die for.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Yeah, And maybe we soft sell all of this like
what's hard is what's valuable, And this is going to
be a great example of this text.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
I don't know. And what do you think of this cloud?

Speaker 3 (20:15):
I mean, I you know, the top of mountain, a
cloud comes and they're terrified.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely terrified.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
I mean the talk about having an earth collision and
just feeling so vulnerable. Yeah. I climbed up a mountain
once and the storm came in as we would just
hit the summit, and I mean the guides are screaming
at us to run.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
You know, there's like hail.

Speaker 3 (20:40):
It's just crazy and and it is terrifying. Yeah, absolutely terrifying.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Wow.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
But then out of this cloud comes I mean, the
voice of God. I can't just I don't even my
imagination doesn't even reach that far.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I.

Speaker 3 (20:58):
Think too there's a contrast at the baptism you have
this not a cloud but this dove and this kind
of I don't know, it seems like this more pastoral,
kind of sweet thing where Jesus is baptized and this
is my son and whom I will you know?

Speaker 2 (21:12):
La la la la la.

Speaker 3 (21:13):
And then this one's like, yeah, this is my son,
an you better like listen everybody, you know, an interesting
juxtaposition some way.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Yeah, and then seeing this transfiguration so close to the
next story that followed right where where this man comes
from the crowd describing what is happening to his son,
these convulsions and this spirit that has taken him, and
Jesus response, you know, looking at his disciples and saying,
you faithless and perverse generation, how much you that that

(21:49):
that again, that's with growth comes pain, and his disciples
certainly experienced it, that that they watched Jesus do these
incredible things and they're trying to follow him, but they're
obviously failing and falling and making mistakes along the way.
But verse forty three, you know, ends with and all

(22:10):
were astounded with the greatness of God. And that's really
what it's about, not about all the missteps they took
along the way and the stupid things they said and did,
but that all were astounded by the greatness of God.

Speaker 2 (22:22):
Yes, maybe we all be right right.

Speaker 3 (22:26):
It is funny that picture though, I mean the I
mean the Jesus being fully human, fully God like you
see these humanity, these glimpses of just this awesome humanity
where He's like, all right, amateurs, get out of the way, you.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
Know, sillies, I got this. What are you doing? We
bring your son here? You know what? Yeah? Yeah, so great,
Yeah yeah ooh.

Speaker 1 (22:54):
I think Jesus is looking at this, the boy right
in front of him, right like you were talking about
when we start hearted, you know, Peter. And then they
were just so astounded by what happened at the mountain
that says they didn't tell anybody what happened. And then
this man right in front of them brings them this
sun that's in pain and they can't do anything about it.
And it just makes me think, Hi, I wonder if

(23:15):
their heads were still on that mountain and what had
just happened and they were still processing it and unable
to help the person right in front of them. And
I think that's the challenge to us, maybe as we
hear the news of everything that's happening and we're reeling
from the possibility of what could happen, to again focus
on who's the person right in front of me and

(23:37):
need and what can I do about it?

Speaker 2 (23:39):
The jobs are going back? There?

Speaker 1 (23:43):
Any any final thoughts before we close past the roof.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
Oh I love that.

Speaker 3 (23:49):
Man, This this text is something that I'll just wrestle
with my whole life.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Yeah. Same, And I think I think that's a good thing.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, we just had these pat answers and we could
just say this means this, and this means this, and.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Go do this.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
The fact that God is constantly revealing God's self makes
it so much more exciting for sure.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
For sure, and may we continue to wrestle with God's word.
So on, behalf of Pastor Ruth and myself, thank you
for joining us this morning. We pray that you have
a blessed final funday of epiphany, and as we move
into the Lenten Journey, the Lenton Exodus, away from our
sin and toward the goodness of God. May God bless

(24:33):
you richly.