Soundings March 23 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, everyone, and welcome to Soundings, a public affairs
presentation of iHeartMedia. Each week we have an ecumenical discussion
on how these scripture readings might apply to our life
into our world. And I am Molly Boscher and I'm
an episcopal priest on the north side of Grand Rabbets
on three Mile Road. And I would love it if

(00:22):
Jessica you introduced yourself next. Sure.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
I'm Jessica Rivera Walker. I am the pastor of Good
Shepherd Lutheran Church in Holland, Michigan, on the corner of
one hundred and twelfth and Quincy.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
And Beth, I'm Beth today, the director of Faith Formation
at Saint Phil Mary Anne Read City, and I am
the director of Pastor Karen Outreach at Saint Mary Saint
Paul Big Rapids.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
So we're recording this show a bit early because of
vacation plans and all of that. But we are now
almost halfway through Lent, because Lent is six weeks and
we are recording for the third Sunday of Lent. So
this year, what have been or what are some of
our favorite things we should continue to talk about this

(01:09):
season of Lent of preparation for Easter. So what are
some of your favorite things about Lent?

Speaker 3 (01:15):
Well, I just met young people, are high school kids,
and it's nice to talk about what they're doing prayer,
they're adding. They really talked about wanting to be consistent
in prayer, and don't we all. So it's interesting to
hear a young people's perspective about wanting being more consistent
in prayer. The funny things they're giving up some of
this food. I have no idea what it is, but anyway,

(01:38):
it was interesting what they eat so and they're trying hard.
So I was really pleased to hear young people's perspective
on Lent.

Speaker 2 (01:46):
That's wonderful. We have our our midweek service. We have
always done a hold an evening prayer, which is a contemplative,
like a more contemplative service, but they have there's this
really beautiful version of the Magnificat that's part of that's

(02:06):
one of the songs that we sing in the worship service.
So I'm looking forward to having that and engaging with
my people in that practice for Lent and our family
is we have decided because we have just an abundance

(02:27):
of stuff in our pantry and like in our freezer.
So we usually have like a meal kit service that
we do for dinners, and I said, okay, we're canceling
that for Lent, and we are. We're like eating out
of our freezer and our pantry because we have all

(02:47):
this food we need to use it. We're going to
make that a Lent in practice to like not eat
out and to really like focus on using what we have.
And so we'll see how that goes. Might be a
lot of I don't know how creative all be is, though,

(03:09):
we'll see.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
You know, I know that this is not as holy
as either of yours is, but whatever, Hi, And just
so I so look forward to spring coming, you know,
and that also being part of this Lent, which means
spring right season. You know, I love watching, I mean,
besides my own Linton practice, I love watching the flowers

(03:33):
come up and the daffodils and kind of seeing this
earth that just felt like it was dead come back again,
you know, with the crocuses and all. I just I mean,
we're recording really early in this month. I just saw
that the snowdrops are getting ready to pop in my park,
and I don't know, just enjoying that season I just

(03:54):
love it so much. You know, do we all just
love spring so much? You know? After long?

Speaker 2 (04:01):
Yes, yes, yeah, Well, our story today is one of
the more famous ones in the.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
Scriptures, so I really look forward to having a good,
robust discussion about it.

Speaker 3 (04:17):
So this is for the fourth Sunday of Lent from
Luke's Gospel tax Collectors. And as we're all drawing near
to listen to Jesus, but the Pharisees and the scribes
began to complain, saying, this man welcomed sinners and eats
with them. So to them Jesus addressed this parable. A
man had two sons, and the younger said to his father, father,

(04:42):
give me the share of your estate that should come
to me. So the father did the property between them.
After a few days, the younger son collected all his
belongings and then out to a distant tree, where he
squandered here his inheritance on a life of dissertation disspation.
When he had really spent everything, a severe emmon struck

(05:04):
that country, and he found himself in dire need. So
he hired himself out to one of the local citizens,
who sent him to his farm to tend the swine,
as he longed to eat his fill of the pods
on which the swine fed, but nobody gave him any.
Coming to his sense, he thought, how many of a

(05:24):
father's hired workers have more enough food to eat, But
here am I dying from hunger. I shall get up
and go to my mother, and I shall say to him, father,
I have sinned against heaven and against you. I no
longer desert to be called your son. Treat me as
you would treat of your hired workers. So he got

(05:45):
up and went back to his father. While he was
still long ways off, his father caught sight of him
and was filled with compassion. He ran to his son
and braced him and kissed him. Said to him, and
the un said to him, father, I have sinned against
heaven as you, I no longer deserve to be called

(06:06):
your son. But his father ordered his servants quickly. Bring
the fist robe and put it on him, put a
ring on his finger, and sandals on feet. Take the
fatted calf and slaughter it. Then let us celebrate with
a feast, because this son of mine was dead and
has come to life again. He was lost and has

(06:26):
been found. Then libration began now the older son had
been out in the field, and on his way back.
As he drew to the house, he heard the sound
music and dancing. He called one of the servants and
asked what this might mean. The servant said to him,
your brother has returned, and your father has slaughtered the

(06:48):
fattened calf. Because he him back safe and sound. He
became angry, and when he refused to enter the house,
his father came out and pleaded with him. He said
to his father in reply, look, all these years I
served you, and not once did I disobey your orders.
Yet you never gave me even a young goat to

(07:10):
stand with my friends. But when your son turns, who
swallowed up your property with prostitutes for him, you slaughter
the fatted calf. He said to him, my son, you
are here with me always. Everything I have is yours.
But now we celebrate and rejoice because your brother was

(07:31):
dead and has come to life. Und he was lost
and has been found.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Even we always tend to focus when I think about
when I hear this is that we always tend to
focus on the prodigal son. But I and not that
we shouldn't. But for me, one of the interesting aspects
about this is the older son, because I think that,

(08:00):
you know, we see that a lot today when we
tend to want to judge like those people, you know, whoever,
we deem those people right who are not maybe not
practicing their piety the way that we would prefer that
they practice their piety, and you know, we get we

(08:26):
get a little you know, like well, why why should
they get the good thing? You know, when here I am.
I've done all the right things, and I followed all
the rules, and I've done all this And I find
it when I when I talk with people about the
idea that maybe there isn't a hell is when I
sort of see this right, like whoa, wait a second,

(08:48):
you mean those people who did such an you know,
this would be in heaven and this idea that like
why did they get a party? I've done all of
this stuff and I've done everything right, and they don't
get to be at my party or they don't get
to have a party, And why can't I have a party?

(09:10):
That kind of thing? And I always think, why does
it matter? There's a party? Right? Like there's a party,
Like God is throwing us a party. God wants us
to be part of this party. God wants us to
have all these good things. Why does it are we

(09:32):
really going to walk away and be like, well, I
don't want to go if those people are there. I
mean I feel like just just come, like, are you
really going to miss out on the good things because
your brother gets the fatted calf and you didn't because

(09:55):
you never asked for the fatted calf? You didn't, you
know when the father's like, you've been here the whole time.
I would have given this to you. I just sort
of think about that dynamic.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
You know, in the it really should be called a
tale of two sons, right, it shouldn't be called the
prodigal Son.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
You know, there's that amazing book by Henry Nowen where
he kind of takes it from each person's perspective. And
sometimes in life where the father and sometimes we're the
prodigal son, and sometimes we're the elder brother, you know,
and these are just places that all of us will

(10:35):
be at some point in time in our lives.

Speaker 3 (10:37):
Right. I like your what you said, Jessica about the
older son. I have that often too. I just think of,
you know, sometimes we don't want on ending mercy for everyone.
We just want it for us, right, I'm tiring mur
for us, not for everyone. And I sometimes they have
the seven Deadly sin are part of this parable Did

(11:00):
Jesus know we would be we'd be angry if somebody
else got mercy forgiveness and we well, we did everything right,
and well it's not about doing everything right and jealous
that his brother got that a cap and his brother
got the party and I'm not coming in and but yeah,
but we want boy, we sure want that mercy on

(11:20):
ending for ourselves. You know. It's an interesting contrast of
what a loving father would would give but we won't
accept it, gives it to say. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Nadia Bolts Webber and I'm paraphrasing. She's a Lutheran pastor
and theologian, and she she talks about that too, like
this idea that like we we are really when we
put ourselves in the place of the prodigal, we're super
grateful for that grace and we're like, oh, we get
this grace, you know, like Jesus has saved me. But

(11:58):
if we take that great seriously, if we take that
promise of grace seriously for us, we also have to
take that promise of grace seriously for other people too.
And I think, Beth, like you were saying that is

(12:21):
that's hard because we're super grateful for it when it
applies to us. But boy, when we think that it
could possibly apply to like, you know, the person maybe
that we put in our heads, like the most undeserving person,
we get really upset about it. And and I do too,

(12:48):
And I wonder why, like, why do we get so
upset about it? If I am inheriting the kingdom, why
am I so upset that another person that maybe I
think is just the worst person on the work in

(13:08):
the world is also inheriting the kingdom. Shouldn't it just
be enough that we're inheriting the kingdom? Well theoretically, but.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Aren't there all people that we all have where we're like, yeah,
they shouldn't really inherit the kingdom because they've done this
terrible thing to me or to somebody that I love.
And you know, because in some ways this is kind
of an extension of the question of loving our enemies, maybe,
you know, And of course you know, I like, I

(13:37):
like how this parable begins. All the tax collectors and
sinners were coming near to listen to Jesus and the
Pharisees and the scribes were grumbling and say this fellow,
welcome sinners and eats with them, you know, because it's
like there's always another right. I mean, no matter what,

(13:57):
there's always another right. We are so good at making others,
you know.

Speaker 2 (14:03):
And why does it you know, I would ask, we
want to be the judge of the journey, right, or
we want to think I think part of it is
we want to think that we're the apple of the eye,
like if we if we put ourselves in the place
of the older brother, like and if we think about
sibling relationships right, like, oh my god, he disrespected you,

(14:26):
like he literally wished you were dead, and then he
took your money and then he went and he did
all of this stuff. And I've been here and I've
done everything that you've asked me to do, and I
keep doing everything that you asked me to do. And
I'm the one who stayed on the farm, Like shouldn't
I be your favorite?

Speaker 1 (14:45):
Your sorrow? And I watch your sorrow about the child,
you know, and I you know, in some ways I
bore that you know, and and you know what we
know that he has never been this other brother has
never been white as dependable. I mean even when he
was here, he didn't listen to you, right, right, you.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
Know, right, And so it's that like, yeah, I had
to watch yourself. I had to hold you when you cried,
I had to console you. I should be your favorite,
you know.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
When I was, I was a chaplain at a school
and it was so much fun. It was such a hoot.
And we did this story with the I did this
story with the fourth graders because I think it's such
an important story of scripture. And I made them draw
it in like draw it as a comic for you know,
and it was one of the kids did you know,

(15:39):
the dissolute living kind of seeing what different children think
about dissolute living. And we're in Florida, and I have
very clear memories of a little boy whose name was George.
You know. There was like there was a sign in
it and there's a palm tree and it said beach Bar.
And I still think one of I think about this story,

(16:01):
I'm like beach Bar dissolute living, you know.

Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah. A couple of years ago, my parents and I
think it's a traveling is exhibit had an exhibit for
the Prodigal Sun an art exhibit, and so it had
everything from these from these drawings from the early part
of the twentieth century. And you know in that when

(16:28):
the dissolute living was, when he was in the east,
you know, smoking in an opium den and you know,
and like all of that. I mean, it's just this
is a universal story. The other line, I just love
in this, and I forget about how your scripture translation

(16:48):
has it, but it says, but when he came to himself,
when he came to himself, when he had that moment
of recognition again, you know, well, all of us have
come to ourselves at some time or another, have we
not he came to himself. You know, like you're just

(17:09):
kind of you're just going along and all of a
sudden you're like, whoa.

Speaker 2 (17:14):
You know, what does your translation say.

Speaker 1 (17:17):
Beth coming to his senses, coming to his senses, coming
to himself, awakened as if from sleep, whatever you want
to say?

Speaker 3 (17:26):
Right, yeah, I think so many times in this story
I want to make myself the second, the older son.
But we're all have been the one that left, and
we need to come to our senses. Sometimes. What am
I doing? I think you're right, coming to ourselves, coming
to our senses, how am I treating people? What am
I thinking about them? That all is part of how

(17:48):
we relate to God, into each other, and so many
of these readings in jesus teaching and his great commandments. Right,
love one another, you love your neighbor, love you as
you love yourself. And I don't always do that. I
want to be first, I want to be I want
the mercy, I want to be the judge. But coming

(18:09):
to our senses, we say, oh no, that's not that's
not what we were called to be or to do.
Sometimes I wonder where original sin fits into all of this.
It's like we want, we want what we want when
we want it, but I want.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
It for me, Right, what do you think? I mean?
That's a really good question. Where do you think original sin?
I mean? Or do you think you know? What do
you think original sin has to say about this? Or
you know, because we're also supposed to talk about our
contemporary times, what do you think about original sin or
our contemporary times? What do those things have to do

(18:44):
with this story?

Speaker 3 (18:44):
Well, I think in contemporary times, we've really learned how
to judge each other on the Internet and on you know,
we can post anything we want, but if we're not
talking to someone's face, I think it's a whole different story.
What people are posting online can be just horrendous, And
would you actually to say that to someone's face? And
and we you know in this in this story, you
know the brothers outside, but you know he could have

(19:07):
got inside and said what he wanted to the other
to the other brother too. But you know, I think
in our contemporary time, that's what comes to my mind
is when people post on stuff on the Internet and
it's like, really, you guys, would you say that to
someone's face? I would hope not, right.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
I think about the the not being satisfied with with anything,
because so you have the you have the younger son
who wants his father's share of the inheritance, and then
but he squanders it in whatever dissolute living is, he

(19:51):
squanders it. But it doesn't say he's happy. It just
says he's he's you know, whatever we can think of
as like hedonistic or dissolute. And then he's then he
doesn't have anything. And so you know, before he was

(20:11):
yearning for his father's inheritance and now he's just yearning
for like whatever the pigs get. And when he comes
to himself, he realizes that, you know, he had everything
that he needed to be fulfilled when he was in
his father's house. And then I think of the older son,

(20:34):
who I imagine probably held resentment for his brother like
the whole time, like his brother is probably less than
dependable on the farm. And so the older son is
doing all these things and like has his father's company,

(20:57):
has the bounty of living with his father, has purpose
in his life in doing all these things. But he's
so upset and so grinding his teeth because my stupid
younger brother and my dad likes him better that he's
not appreciating that either. And so you have this story

(21:17):
of like two different people and for two different reasons,
not having enough. And I imagine Jesus speaking to the
tax collectors and sinners who are who are you know,
I think is supposed to be the prodigal in this case,
and the Pharisees who are supposed to be the older son,

(21:39):
and saying like you, I'm here. God is here. God
is with you. God loves you. God is is extending
this love to you. God is encouraging you. To live
in community and love one another and live well, and

(22:00):
like neither of you are satisfied. And so I wonder
about just in this time seeing kind of writ large
billionaires who are not satisfied with what they have at all,
and then you have like working class people who for

(22:23):
for lots of legitimate reasons, are not satisfied either, like
against each other. And I feel like, Okay, what is
the bigger picture that we could have from this? You know,
how could we maybe learn to be satisfied with what
God has given us in this kind of environment. I

(22:52):
like that.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
I like that. I also I when we're talking about this,
when you were talking about this, I was I was
also reminded, kind of practically speaking, that this that this
story reminds me of so many relationships between brothers, you know,
that one of them is the good one and one
of them is the bad one, you know, And and

(23:15):
I was thinking about how this is a it just
kind of is it. It's one of those big archetypes,
you know, one is the good one and one is
the bad one. And I was thinking about, like, you know,
it's there's this recognition in this story in the same
way that there's a recognition. I feel like when people
hear the story of canaan Abel, you know that there's

(23:39):
something about it that. I mean, how many brothers do
you know that even in their adult lives, they continue
to hold onto these relationships, you know, Oh, you know,
my brother's always been kind of you know, you know,
and actually not seeing kind of the personhood there, you know.

(23:59):
And I feel like I feel like that's another piece
that if we're going to push it a little bit
farther in that direction of this time, in this life,
about kind of the personhood even of our enemies, you know,
the personhood of the billionaires who can't find enough, the
personhood of the of the people at the bottom who
can't find enough. You know, if we stop and we

(24:20):
actually consider what it is like to live their lives,
I think we there could possibly be moments where we
see the image of God in them, even though sometimes
I don't want to see the image of God in
people who like people who I'm like aren't living the
way that I think that they should live.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
I was going to say that goes back that's you
mentioned earlier, Jesus's great commandments, you know, love one another.
And I think that goes back to that like, to
really love one another, we have to be willing to
see the image of God in that in the other.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Any last comments Beth before we say goodbye today.

Speaker 3 (25:03):
Nope, I think that's a that's a great place to
stop to love love one another. It is a really
great I think that's a great takeaway from the from
the parable.

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Well, thank you for joining us today for soundings and
on behalf of Jessica and Beth and myself, we wish
you a continued happy Lent, a prayerful Lent, and and
we hope that you, like us, can continue striving to

(25:32):
see the image of God in one another.