Soundings March 30 2025

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Good morning, and welcome the Soundings, a public affairs presentation
of iHeartMedia. Each week we have an ecumenical discussion and
reflection on the scriptures and how they apply to our
life and the world. My name is Shannon Jamal Hollomans,
and I am the pastor at First Congregational United Church
of Christ in Lowell, Michigan, about thirty miles east of

(00:21):
Grand Rapids. Two of our regulars are here with me
this morning, and I will invite them to introduce themselves,
starting with Father Mike.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
I am A name is Father Mike Kirkshenk.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
I'm a Polish priest, a Roman Catholic priest that's serving
at the Cathedral Saint Andrew in downtown Grand Rapids, Andy.

Speaker 4 (00:42):
Good morning.

Speaker 5 (00:43):
I am Reverend Ruth bell Olsen, and I serve as
the senior pastor at Mayflower Congregational Church on the southeast
side of Grand Rapids.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Good morning to you both. Hello, Hello, we are entering
spring territory. Dare I say, I'm starting to see the
signs and I'm sure sure you both are too. Is
there anything you do to prepare for spring or as
spring approaches to sort of notice the different things that

(01:14):
God is working in the creation around us this time
of year.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Well, we have little buds that are coming up in
our front yard, so that's very exciting to see some
new life come up and very beautiful life. It's very bright.
So yeah, I'm just trying to notice all those things around.

Speaker 4 (01:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:32):
I would say it's the fits and starts that are
really tricky. When you wake up and like early this morning,
there was like this little layer of snow, a little frost,
and you're kind of thinking, oh, are we really kind
of set back? And then you see the little crocus,
you know, the little tiny buds and things like that,

(01:54):
And I.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
Think life is sort of like that, right.

Speaker 5 (01:57):
We have these moments where we feel really close to
or we feel like things are really excelling in our life,
and then we have these setbacks where we think, oh no, oh,
you know, the sky is falling and we have to
hang on to those bursts. Yeah, always know that spring

(02:17):
is coming. Then these cycles of death and rebirth are
just this is life, right, and it's constantly in rhythm. Yeah,
so these little emergencies of spring I think are beautiful
reminders of that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Yeah, yeah, it can be I like you said, It
can be discouraging when you know you think spring is
coming and then you wake up to a layer of
snow on the ground, or suddenly the temperatures drop again.

Speaker 4 (02:47):
But you're right.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's it's a.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Good reminder that there is still there's still new things
in the works.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Right.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
There's this hymn that our congregation sings this time of
year that I really love. It's in the bulb there
is a flower, you know, and it talks about how
a sea needs to die for a flower to be born.
And yeah, I just I tried and stick to images
like that this time of year, especially when the snowflakes
come down again, that there is something in the world.

(03:17):
So our passage for today may be a familiar one
to many. It comes from Luke fifteen, and I will
read the first three verses, and then verses eleven through
thirty two. This is often called the Parable of the
prodigal Son or the parable of the forgiving Father. Starting

(03:38):
at verse one, now all the tax collectors and sinners
were coming near to listen to Jesus, and the pharisees
and the scribes were grumbling and saying, this man welcomes
sinners and eats with them, so he told them this parable.
There was a man who had two sons. The younger
of them said to his father, give me the share

(04:01):
of the wealth that will belong to me. So he
divided his assets between them. A few days later, the
younger son gathered all that he had and traveled to
a distant region, and there he squandered his wealth with
dissolute living. When he had spent everything, a severe famine
took place throughout that region, and he began to be

(04:23):
in need. So he went and hired himself out to
one of the citizens of that area, who sent him
to his fields to feed the pigs. He would gladly
have filled his stomach with the pods that the pigs
were eating, and no one gave him anything. But when
he came to his senses, he said, how many of

(04:44):
my father's hired hands have enough bread to spare, but
I'm here dying of hunger. I will get up and
go to my father, and I will say to him, father,
I have sinned against heaven, and before you I am
no longer worthy to be called your son. Treat me
like one of your hired hands. So he set off

(05:05):
and went to his father, but while he was still
far off. His father saw him and was filled with compassion,
and he ran and put his arms around him and
kissed him. Then the son said to him, father, I
have sinned against heaven and before you, and I am
no longer worthy to be called your son. But the

(05:26):
father said to his servants, bring out a robe, the
best one, and put it on him, put a ring
on his finger, and sandals on his feet, and get
the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat
and celebrate, for this son of mine was dead and
is alive again. He was lost and is found, and

(05:48):
they began to celebrate. Now, his elder son was in
the field, and he came and approached the house and
heard music and dancing. He called one of the servants
and asked what was going on. He replied, your brother
has come, and your father has killed the fatted calf,
because he has got him back safe and sound. Then

(06:12):
he became angry and refused to go in. His father
came out and began to plead with him, but he
answered his father, listen, for all these years I've been
working like a servant for you, and I have never
disobeyed your command. Yet you have never given me even
a young goat, so that I might celebrate with my friends.

(06:33):
But when this son of yours came back, who has
devoured your assets with prostitutes, you killed the fatted calf
for him. Then the father said to him, son, you
are always with me, and all that is mine is yours.
But we had to celebrate and rejoice because this brother

(06:54):
of yours was dead and has come to life. He
was lost and has been found. This is the gospel
of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Speaker 4 (07:04):
Thanks be to God. What a story, right, so many
pieces of parts, so many things. I'm tack.

Speaker 6 (07:10):
Yeah, yeah, where to begin past sham Yeah, Father Mike,
as you heard it again, what stood out to you
this time?

Speaker 2 (07:27):
Yeah, well I have a story about this.

Speaker 3 (07:34):
The Well, so I'm the I'm the youngest of four
and I this may be shocking to people that are
listening that have a priest. I was just seen in
my family as like irresponsible that you know, my elder

(07:55):
brothers and maybe typical youngest brothers sort of thing. I
would just do things and then I'd be forgiven for them,
or I'd go away and I'd come back and all
these things.

Speaker 2 (08:06):
So I really have always.

Speaker 3 (08:08):
Identified with what we call the prodigal son, that I've
always probably taken it for granted in my family that
I could just come back and be with my family
after like moving away. For instance, I was the one
who moved away and I could come back and just
be in the family again, like nothing happened. So I

(08:29):
always really identify the prodigal son and how I.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Can be.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
Forgiven or included no matter what. So there is about
maybe ten years ago now, I was in the seminary
and it was announced that Pope Francis, who had been
elected Pope maybe two years prior to that, I think

(08:57):
he was going to make his first.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Visit to the United States m H.

Speaker 3 (09:01):
And when he was in town, he was going to
do a canonization of assumed to be saints.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
And that canonization what's going to happen at.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
The the National Shrine of the Basilica of the Maca Conception,
which is in Washington, d C. About like a stone's
throwaway from seminar areas. So we were all excited that
Poet Francis was coming like right into where our neighborhood,
right to where we lived. It's like, oh, this would
be such a cool experience. Get to see him, maybe

(09:36):
maybe even get to meet him whatever, and so all
excited in the months leading up to it, and then
until the day that it happens, and it's just as
you might imagine. There's just people from all over the country,
probably all over the continent, have descended upon Washington, d C.

(09:56):
And they had all these barriers blocking streets and long
security lines. So what would normally be a direct route
for me, like literally like three minutes to get to
the location to the church, through like going around different
streets and waiting a line, it took like a few hours.
And I finally get there and we go inside the

(10:19):
church and we're put into like a little side chapel,
so this little area where we're kind of stuffed in,
and there are TV screens on all these places, and
there's a TV screen because the what's happening, the canonization,
the mass, all of that is happening outside on the
big lawn outside.

Speaker 2 (10:39):
So we've been so I've been.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
Like three hours going through and only to be watching
on TV what's happening when I could have died at
home when Pope friends is actually his his popemobile whatever,
had driven right in front of our seminary.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
House there I would have had a better view.

Speaker 3 (11:00):
I found myself very upset, very resentful that this, this
was my neighborhood, and all these people came from other
places to come and see Pope Francis, and they got.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
In ahead of me.

Speaker 3 (11:15):
They had they had a better opportunity than I did,
even though this is this was my territory. And it
took a while for me to reflect on it, but
I finally realized, like wow, for the first time in
my life, I identify as the older brother that I
felt like I deserved something because I've been here, I've
been faithful. These other people are coming from other places,

(11:39):
and it it It's stung a little.

Speaker 2 (11:41):
Bit because I had never never identified that way.

Speaker 3 (11:44):
I always thought like, oh, I'm no anger, so I
can do you know, I can do what I want
and come back and be forgiven.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
And and so it it just made me reflect on how.

Speaker 3 (11:58):
I think there's the three people in this in this story,
the younger and older brother and the father. I think
we all have a little bit of each of them
within us.

Speaker 2 (12:11):
You know.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
Again, I I I found myself stubborn, a little bit
resentful as of the older brother.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
I found myself.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Thankful, grateful for the welcome back or penitential for what
I've done, but thankful for the welcome back.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
You know, hopefully I've I've been like the father and.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Compassionate to his son. But I think, I think we
we do each have some of the of each of
the characters within us, and we probably identify different times
with each one.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
And so I just as my own.

Speaker 3 (12:55):
Reflection and offer as reflection for other people to see,
you know, who, where are you?

Speaker 2 (13:00):
Where you see yourself in the story?

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Which of the characters are different activities events in your life?

Speaker 2 (13:08):
And how does the story speak to you?

Speaker 3 (13:10):
Because it spoke to me a lot differently after that
experience than I had in the past, and there is
a lot more, a lot more depth to it than
I had thought about in the past.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
That's powerful.

Speaker 5 (13:21):
Thank you for sharing that, you're That is so true.
That is so true. The dynamics of identifying with each
of the characters, and sometimes we're even just the townspeople,
right or the guests of the party, watching this dynamic
play out with people in our lives or people in
our communities, and being a parent, you know, watching it
the dynamics with my own kids.

Speaker 4 (13:44):
For sure or yeah, for sure.

Speaker 5 (13:50):
And because it's a parable and this kind of moral lesson,
there are all these details left out. We when there
are details left out, right, we make up.

Speaker 4 (14:02):
The narrative and fill it in.

Speaker 5 (14:05):
So this younger son has this whole internal dialogue, Oh,
when I get to my father, I'm going to say
all these things.

Speaker 4 (14:11):
And then when he actually.

Speaker 5 (14:12):
Sees his father, he doesn't save them all. So we
don't know did he really repent, was he really sorry?
Was he this manipulative? Did he have an angle right?
And we don't know did the older son was he
really just kind of a jerk and he never really
got the message? Or did he join the party? Did
he have this uh, you know, this change of heart?

(14:35):
Did he really love his younger But you know, other
are all these things that we don't We don't know,
and so we kind of make up the story maybe
to fit our own narrative where we are or where
we see ourselves and what kind of father if he
has some dingbat younger child gives him half the inheritance
knowing he was wonderant, right, you kind of would say

(14:56):
this is a super dysfunction well family or you know,
big high road and say, you know, if if the
Father is this, you know this god figure God gives lavishly,
gives us all kinds of things, knowing we're going to
squander it, knowing we're going to screw up.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Right.

Speaker 5 (15:14):
So I think that's so beautiful about this parables. We
can interpret it so many different ways, and even just
hearing you read it this morning, I and I've studied
it all week for a sermon, and I'm like, oh,
I know, you know, all these other.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
Things are pinging for me.

Speaker 5 (15:32):
That. Yeah, even this even this thought of giving, Like
here the father gives half of his wealth, which is
the younger son saying essentially, you're dead to me, give
me half of everything. And then literally in the pigstye,
he say no one gave him anything, right this even

(15:52):
this who's giving?

Speaker 4 (15:54):
Who what?

Speaker 5 (15:55):
He literally says, no one's giving him anything. And You're like,
wait a minute, you just got everything right?

Speaker 4 (16:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (16:02):
So interesting, so many things at play, yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
And being Middle Eastern and from a you know, a
more traditional Muslim family background and looking at this and going,
you know, yeah, what the son says to the father
is super disrespectful. Right, It's basically like you're dead to me,
I'm gone. But the fact that the father divided up
the assets between the two sons, that was pretty radical. Actually,

(16:27):
that's not how it would be done. The oldest son
is the one who inherits the resources and the assets,
and it's his job to distribute it fairly among the siblings,
especially the brothers.

Speaker 5 (16:38):
Right.

Speaker 1 (16:39):
So, just the fact that the father would have given
the younger son assets and to take off with that,
that was an insult to the older son culturally. So
I look at that piece and go especially me being
the oldest child in a family of five, that's a
challenge to me. Right, is that that God's grace doesn't

(17:00):
make sense by the rules of logic or our culture
or our society. Right, that God's grace is extravagant and
it's illogical, and yet God distributes it as God will.

Speaker 5 (17:12):
Right.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
John Calvin talked about God's grace being promiscuous, and I
just love that idea. Right, that God doesn't have boundaries
or limits or say I'm going to evenly distribute. God
does what God will, And I think that's really beautiful
and a good reminder to me as someone who has
often identified as the older sibling. Right, and even struggling

(17:35):
with that. In the Middle Eastern family, I grew up
in right with the son is the one that inherits everything.
And so I had a younger brother who's fifteen months
younger than me, and culturally, you know, he is the
head of the family, but personality wise, I'm the head
of that family at least that's what I like to
tell and show everyone. So so yeah, this this parable

(17:59):
really speaks to me as somebody who likes to do
what she will and likes to be the boss and
likes to tell the other four siblings of mine what's what.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
It's a good.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Reminder that there is no pecking order in the Kingdom
of God. That God loves who. God loves promiscuously and
is extravagant with that love, and there's nothing we can
do to earn that love. That's that's the reminder that
I always need. I can behave as good as as

(18:30):
God asks me to, but at the end of the day,
God's going to do what God will, and God's love
is not based on condition or our behavior. We don't
have to behave to belong to God. We just belong
to God. And that's a good reminder to me. Any
other thoughts on this passage.

Speaker 3 (18:47):
I think, as you said, Pastor Shannon, that we it's
often called the prodigal son, and a prodigal is not
a term we use very often in common language. So
maybe a vocabulary brush up that prodigal means uh and
correct me if you have different understandings of it, like
to be sort of reckless in your in your spending

(19:11):
and your resources, to be very so to spend so
freely and extravagantly that it could be considered kind of reckless.
And I think that you know, we see, we said,
we call the prodigal some because we see the son.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Some do that to be so reckless.

Speaker 3 (19:30):
But as you mentioned, I've also heard it called the
prodigal father prodigal parent, because the father in this situation
is is kind of reckless in in in two different ways.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
I think.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
One give his son all of this inheritance, knowing, probably
knowing quite well what might happen with it. And then
at the end of the story, he's reckless in the
way that he welcomes his son back again, like pastors said,
like he doesn't really know what his son's intentions are when.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
He comes back. He's the one he runs out to
him before he has a chance to do anything.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
And and so his the love that he shows, the
merse that he shows is maybe from I'm I'm not
a parent like like you, but I would imagine that
any parent in class that you would not be sort

(20:39):
of reckless in this sort of way.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
There would be some sort of.

Speaker 3 (20:44):
A need for a request for forgiveness, maybe discipline like
that sort of thing. And so I think it does
speak to the kind of reckless God that we have.
And reckless I don't mean reckless in a in a
negative connotation, but in a way in which his you know,

(21:06):
the limit, the unlimited mercy that he has. And I
say this a lot in confession, like it's kind of
it's hard for us to fathom that there are there
are no conditions on God's love for us, and we
put many conditions on it, but he doesn't. And I
think it's a great reminder of that that God is

(21:26):
kind of reckless in a way. And that's great, that's
that's great to hear, that's great to know for for us.

Speaker 5 (21:34):
Yeah, when my teenager took all of his Christmas money
and it was all gone within the month.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
Of January, on door dash. He had all these like
fast food meals delivered, and I was like, what are
you doing?

Speaker 5 (21:48):
You know, like little like taco bells five dollars and
the delivery fee is more like all.

Speaker 4 (21:56):
I'm like, what are you? And yeah, that's reckless, that's prodigal,
that's dumb.

Speaker 5 (22:03):
So I have to put boundaries running boundaries. I'm like, no,
you need to be a better steward of your resources.
So I see that, you know, this parent with this child,
you know, coming up the up the driveway, and you
want to say, I told you so. You don't know
this idea of running to this child with compassion. I

(22:23):
love that that he saw him from afar And the
first word is compassion. Yeah, that you look at this
child who did something so foolish and so reckless.

Speaker 4 (22:40):
And and inherent in that is pain.

Speaker 5 (22:44):
Right when we do something dumb, when we do something foolish,
when we are brought down to our knees, when we're in.

Speaker 4 (22:50):
The pig trough, you know, a figurative in literal, there's pain.

Speaker 5 (22:56):
And to look at someone who is addicted or someone
who is in a bad relationship or whatever, and to
see compassion that I told you so.

Speaker 4 (23:05):
M H and and I was thinking of the older
brothers saying, well, you never gave me a even a goat.

Speaker 5 (23:13):
And the Father doesn't say this, but I'm thinking, yeah,
but you never had the pain, buddy, you go there? Yeah,
and is there something to that, like you've gone so
so far down the you know those extremes, right, we
celebrate that someone has come back from from the brink.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (23:33):
I just love this compassion that I told you so. Yeah,
and no more door dash for my teenager.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
Some boundaries. Boundaries are good.

Speaker 3 (23:45):
Yeah, he's a car, a car, Oh my goodness.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
Yeah not yet but yet cool young for that. But yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:56):
Well, as we continue this journey through our Lenten season,
and let us just remember that compassion of God that
is given without condition, That God is waiting there for us,
and that we see that love in Jesus Christ and
the stories he told and the actions he performed, and
in the saving act that he performed on the cross

(24:18):
for all of us. I invite you to continue pondering
that this season and on behalf of Father Mike and
Pastor Ruth. Thank you for joining us today and we
will talk with you again soon