The Husker, The Packer, The Gamer: Ahman Green - Episode 5

Tune in to co-hosts Deuce and Dylan Sash as they interview Ahman Green, one of the finest running backs ever produced by the Cornhuskers. Green describes his rapid rise to stardom under renowned head coach Tom Osborne, as well as his impressive NFL career with the Green Bay Packers. Injuries, particularly formidable opponents, and the Packer-Viking rivalry are thoroughly examined. Additionally, Ahman details his post-retirement ventures, including work as both a football and eSports coach.

Episode Transcript

(00:10):
And Player, Gator Built and PettyMilton, Monty Cardinal with an El Dorando

(00:39):
Don't Wake It Up out of myhit song from outcasts fourth studio album,
Stankonia. Fantastic name. By theway, I really loved that one.
The album was released on Halloween nightof two thousand, just a few years
before we were born, mister Sashand I think that this song is a
great example of how an artist's mostpopular song, most commercially successful song,

(01:00):
is not necessarily their best work.Don't get me wrong. It's a real
catchy tune, and I get whyit's so people know it well right,
It's it's not their best work.There's some other songs of theirs. I
prefer one of them. I thinkit's just just the art of storytelling.
It's a two part song, butthe first part is especially good because it's
both members of Outcast, Big Boyand Andre three thousand, just detailing their

(01:23):
experiences with women that they've had previously. One Big Boy was more just a
relationship. Andre three thousand, however, got a lot deeper, and it
was a story about a girl heknew who tragically died young. And the
ability to tell a story while simultaneouslyholding a nice flow and just making it
sound so natural. There's a skillthat not a lot of people can do.

(01:44):
It's it's takes a lot of talent. Yeah, those albums for me,
they were They still are in mypodcast playlist, so continually playing the
least every other week, right right, you must know almost the words to
every song, real good tunes.But anyways, welcome to the fifth episode
of Studio three thirteen. We're comingat you guys from unl's City campus.

(02:07):
As always, we're here inside AndersonHall, home of the College of Journalism
and Mass Communications, affectionately known asthe co JMC. I'm Deuce and I'm
joined as always by my co hostand good friend, the dependable Dylan sash.
Oh, thank you, Daniel.It's a pleasure to have you here
as always, pleasure to have youhere as well. And we've got ourselves

(02:29):
a very special guest today. Thisin fact, we do. This is
a big one. This is whatI've been looking forward to for week or
two now. Not only is ourguest a Lincoln legend, but he's an
he's an NFL legend as well.He's big time after playing for the Cornhuskers
and spending years in the NFL,primarily with the Green Bay Packers, he
established himself as one of the finestend of talking about this are Yeah,

(02:51):
we started our intramural four v fourflag football season starts next week week.
We'll kick it off probably on theVine Street turf fields, you know,
right right behind Cather and I'm on. We're wondering if we put you in
our starting lineup on every one ofour offensive snaps right now, how many
touchdowns are you putting up? Iwill I will preface this. I know

(03:14):
you're a running back, but itis a throwing Yeah, yeah, pass,
I did seven on seven growing up. Yes, sir, I'm gonna
have re lease. We play,So it's it's four games, yeah,
and there I believe they're twenty twentyminute halves. Yes, So we play
four games, twenty minute halves.And then there's a three game postseason,

(03:34):
right, three games? Oh nice? I say maybe anywhere, I say
over over, under, Um,I'll say, what's that seven games?
Seven? Your guarantee you're guaranteed five? Yeah, five game guaranteed? Say
three three, three and I'll takethe over three. You think you're only
scoring three? Yeah, Well it'sit's you know, you gotta I wouldn't

(03:54):
say you get the quarterback got tospread the ball to around right. Arterback
has option. They know all theiroptions. So I know I'll get open.
I will get open, but youknow it'll just be the fact of
obviously, if it's a quarterback seesme or doesn't see me, I think
I don't think Mom's gonna have anytrouble shaking off. You know, the
washed up high school Honorable mention AllConference defense varsity career down here playing for

(04:19):
Lincoln East. Really good, reallygood athletes from the area. Yea,
yeah, area just like you acceptOmaha, that's where I'm from. Central
graduated from Central Central. Yeah,I graduated from Millard West. A little
off topic, but um, andthen we got our boy sticks, my
boy Andrew. His his great thingis he hits that ten yard curl and

(04:41):
he so he's so small and hejust he is on the ground by the
time he catches the ball. Itworks out wonderful. He's he's real shifty.
You think you're beating any out,any of the starters, potentially because
I I know little tricks to thetrade of running certain routes and getting them
I'm sure you know he's he's beenaround the block a few times, run
some routes, and fifteen years offootball just just a little bit, and

(05:05):
he's he's had experience climbing a depthchart before. You know, when he
arrived to the University of Nebraska Lincolnin nineteen ninety five a monuor freshman season.
Your first five games that season,you weren't the starting back. However,
you produced a lot of good numbers. In those five games, you
had five hundred twenty five total rushingyards, and in that final three games

(05:26):
of that stretch, you had onehundred plus yard games. So you're producing
real well. And before that sixthgame against the Missouri Tigers, you were
given the starting job. And Iwant to take you back to October of
nineteen ninety five. What was thestory like, like, who told you
that you're going to be the startingrunning back for the best team in college
football? And between that time andOctober fourteenth, ninety five, when you

(05:49):
took on Missouri here at Memorial Stadium, what emotions were going through your head?
I say emotions were just I mean, it was a little nervous,
right, being a fresh out ofhigh school, and now I'm starting for
you know, my team that I'mplaying on, which, by the way,
we're the number one in the country, number one college football. So
just a little nervousness, right,you know, which is natural. Yeah,

(06:10):
of course, you know, andbeing young and just being in the
huddle for the first couple of timesthat season, I say I got used
to it real early because I hadthe captain's uh, Aaron Graham, Tommy
Fraser, Aaron Taylor basically yelling atme freshman, freshman, pay attention right,
We're gonna score the ball right now. You catch up, you know,
I remember time he's saying to mea couple of times, keep up

(06:31):
with me, freshman, so youcould get the ball, you know,
stuff like that, or wake up, wake up, you know, because
I was, you know, deeringthe headlights thinking about everything when I first
I think my first game in thehuddle was Oklahoma State, right um down
in the Sweetwater still water excuse me, and uh and yeah, you know,
eyes were big and like, ohmy god, this is it.
You know, I could come inthere and not mess up. I play

(06:55):
well. So once I got passedthat after the first game, by that
you know, sixth game, wehad a lot of changing of the guard
of who was starting a running back, through injury, through getting in trouble
off the field. So you know, for me to be promoted then as
a true freshman, I was like, wow, it just showed a lot
of trust the coaches had in meas a true freshman. I mean,

(07:15):
and and a lot of it startedback when I was getting recruited. Would
come through Coacher Osborne and he cameto my house, right my senior or
my junior senior year of recruiting,and the only question, you know,
kind of go to your question onum you know who got me there as
the starter? It was more justhim at it was coach I was asking
a question or my dad asked him, Coach I wasmarn a question about would

(07:41):
my son be able to play hisfreshman year? Right and real simply Coach
Osburn said, well, if hehits the playbook, he studies up and
hoses plays, he plays hard,and does you know, does everything we
asked him to do, he willhave an opportunity to play. And that's
all my dad needed to hear becausehe knew what type of player I was.
You know, what type of umperson I was a hard worker.
Rap you know, I didn't.I didn't you know, everything I got

(08:05):
to that point, and even afterthat, it was I worked for it,
you know, I just didn't putmy hand out and say, hey,
can I get this. I'll makesure I put forth the effort to
earn something right. And so heknew that with me, you know,
being the way he raised me andmy way way him and my mom raised
me. So for me, itwas just now just a matter of time.
Just do that study in my playbook. Um, you know, hit
the weight room, do what mycoaches asked me to do. Will do

(08:28):
what my teammates asked me to do. Correct, you know, like I
said, Tommy and Aaron Graham yellingat me, Hey first mean wake up
right now? All right, greatmotivation. Oh yeah, we're gonna scare
off, No problem. I love. That's awesome, Let's get it.
So so that sixth game came,and so that really is just more of
you know, starting for the firsttime, nervousness. It wasn't the fact,

(08:48):
you know, even though I knewwe were number one, wasn't really
that was that wasn't a big picture. It was more of this is my
first game, starting. Yeah,didn't know it would be my freshman year.
Figure would be maybe my soft orlater way later in my freshman role
game or the last game of theseason, you know, something like that.
But it came. It came alot faster. The good thing was

(09:09):
I was prepared. Between Frank Solich, coach Osborne, and my teammates.
You know, the way we practiceTuesdays and Wednesdays was pure hell um in
terms of imagine how physical we wereand we couldn't wait for Saturday's game because
we we hit each other harder thanwe did the other teams. Yeah,
to hit the other team was actuallybetter because then we that gives us our

(09:30):
bodies a break because they now goinggoing through what we went through. And
you know for two days right duringevery season that when I played that in
Nebraska, when the when the practiceis easy, you know something something.
When the practice hard, practice hardgay easy there, that's the Williams are
easy. Yet one hundred percent gameswhere we like came wait till the weekend.
Correct, this is he correct?We are killing each other out here.

(09:52):
You were, you were certainly hittingthe playbook and working in the weight
room quite a bit. You addone hundred forty one carries for over a
thousand yards that freshman year, stilla single season Nebraska freshman record with that
one eighty six yards thirteen touchdowns.But you're nineteen ninety six campaign your sophomore,
it wasn't quite as successful. Yeah, it was injury, right,

(10:13):
crazy injuries popped up on me.I had a K State game. I'm
having a good season so far,right, and K State game, I
get tackled and I'm at the bottomof the pile. I got a guy
just laying on my legs waiting forhim. I'm waiting for him to get
up. Yeah, right, Andit's probably and it seemed forever because I'm
like, God, They're taken foreverto get off my legs, right.
And as I'm sitting there a firstpart of the game, I'm actually got

(10:35):
a um spraying elbow already got thattaped up. Sure, I'm still waiting
on the ground. And now comeslike right after I get tackled. You
know, it usually pops up prettyfast, but this is taken forever,
like I said, And one ofthe d linemen starts to um he like
to play ended and he starts tostumble and fall in tricks. He lands

(10:56):
right on the back of my heel. I'm like, and smashes my big
toe into the turf, the dreadedturf, and then boom, turf toel.
And at first, like when whenit happened, and I'm laying on
the ground, obviously there's no pressureon it because I'm on thee I'm not
standing up right, I'm like,I'm kind of I feel the I feel
kind of the pinch like a littlegame maybe, you know. And I'm
like, okay, let me tryto just walk it off. And I

(11:16):
try to walk, and I waslike, oh my god, I cannot
walk camp putting no pressure on it. So I started limping right away and
it hopped off one foot to thesidelines. And then didn't know that you
know that that play right there wasgonna be probably gonna put me on the
shelf for at that time, twoweeks where I probably should have been longer.
Yeah, from from learning from experienceof what the injury was about and

(11:37):
then what it did to me laterthat season. Basically, yeah, you
had that turf toel initially, andthen you had a stress fracture foot later
in the year. But then yourninety seven campaign was a lot more successful
kind of dominated then you know,balled out. You got that Heisman candidate
then yep, and then you know, second team All American led the Huskers
and scoring touchdowns. You know,do you think that you know you're injuries

(12:00):
right then really just set you offfor success kind of in that ninety seven
season. And motivation wiser definitely,I'll say mentally motivation all that. Like,
I didn't need much motivation. Iwas just that driven of a player.
He was gonna ball out regardless.Right. It wasn't that I was
gonna ball out. I just knewthat I can hang with everybody up ye
now, absolutely, Like I'm eighteenyears old, I'm younger, you know,

(12:20):
on the field to mold most ofeverybody on the field being between my
age and twenty three or twenty four, right, and I'm hanging with them.
Yeah. Absolutely, And that goesback to when I was a kid
playing in the neighborhood. I wasseven playing with fourteen year olds. You
know, I like fifteen year olds. So I was playing with kids twice
my age, right, And eventuallyI wasn't scared of them. You know,
only people are really scared of mymom my dad and my two older

(12:43):
brothers, So it was like itwas no problem going to run them over
and do what I got to doto get the ball in zone or make
a tackle, you know, obviouslyplaying little being in the neighborhood playing ball.
So when I you know, gothere, it was just kind of
that mindset just to kind of justI've been doing it from on time since
I was seven, dealing with dealingwith older kids, are dealing with a
situation where you know, I'm notthe first guy out on the field.

(13:05):
But eventually, now my opportunity came, right. Yeah. Then, like
I said, I was ready,You're ready to go. They had me
ready, and I assume, youknow, hey, backyard football, that's
where the respect is. Oh yeah, that's where boys turned to man and
back when I was a you know, twelve thirteen year old kid, you
know, still enjoying the freedom andinnocence of being an elementary middle school kid.

(13:26):
Just behind my house there was areally good backyard that my buddy lived
at and we would always play pickup football there and we would usually keep
it to two hand touch, butif the parents aren't in the house,
we're we're tackling we're going at it, and it was never tackling. It
was always tackling my name, Actuallythrow it like we weren't. If we
weren't playing teams, we're playing throwup tackle. So basically, throw the

(13:48):
ball in the air and you justrun. The good thing, I say,
the smart thing. You don't catchit midflight. You let the ball
hit the ground and hopefully bounce yourway and you could pick up scooping,
you know, scooping score. Yeah, I learn because I saw several guys
try to jump and cast the ball. As soon as they can't do yeah,
they get lit up. So I'mlike, oh, that's not a
good idea. Yeah, it's whenyou're young. You build that strategy when

(14:09):
you when you're twelve thirteen years old, it's it's letting the ball hit the
ground. When you're you know,eighteen, nineteen years old, you're learning
Osborne's play time flies. And speakingof coach Osborne, you know he was
the glue. He was the guidingfor us to all the dominant Huskers teams
throughout the seventies, eighties, andnineties. And while you guys are the
ones out there, you know,you're battling on the field, you're working

(14:31):
hard. Osborne, he's able totake these young guys who, don't get
me wrong, plenty of talent onthe team, but there's no chemistry when
you guys are initially meeting. Howwas he able to, year after year
take these young guys and consistently builda winning culture here in Lincoln. Um
he basically found guys that obviously,we're coachable, you know, one hundred

(14:52):
percent, and all of us obviously, but a majority of us were coachable,
and then most of us were onthe same page about winning. You
know, we're gonna do everything weneed to do when within when you know,
hitting the weight room, knowing ourplaybook, you know we're gonna take
the team that we're playing against tothe degree to say that we're gonna do
anything we need to do to win. Basically in terms of being physical,

(15:15):
UM, not making mistakes, UM, making the big plays, making our
setting our goals, like we hadgoal set for every game, and I
remember some of the goals like we'reto average. I think I think per
get either per game or per carry. I think it was per game,
having you know, four hundred yardsper game rule was end game goal,

(15:35):
having ten runs over twenty plus yards, which which was explosive runs, you
know, having that that was agoal. Um having twelve first downs for
the game or more, that wasa goal. Goals like that was.
And so the whole team, though, wasn't just the offense. The defense.
Defense had their goals, you know, get three sacks or four sacks,
get two turnovers, create or createtwo turnovers or whatever. And so

(15:58):
those end game goals made it realeasy because then obviously I told you earlier
how physical we were in practice,you know, on Tuesdays and Thursday's practice.
I was just talking to do Olsterguard today he was at practice watching
spring ball today or you know,going on right now, and he brought
up the same I mean he literallyit was almost like he was in my

(16:18):
brain that the same thing. Ijust said, Yeah, yeah, Tuesday
Wednesday practice was pure hell. Andyou know he's a trainer having to deal
with injuries. So the good thingwas we this is what we've been used
to, like from the time Istepped on campus, and for everybody else
that had been there three four years, they were used to the physicality,
right, and so that wasn't nothingout of the ordinary, you know,

(16:38):
for anybody adjust to, you know, other than the size of the guys
there. We're like, all right, all right, I'm about two ten
and this guy over here looks likehe's like two fifty. This one looks
like he's three fifteen. So Ibetter run fast. Some big boys and
exactly the lineman and d lineman linebackersthat can move. Yeah. And so
with that mentality and then knowing thephysicality, then it wasn't no like I

(17:00):
said, it wasn't no shock tothe system for us, right, you
know, So it kind of Icounted melted right in because obviously y'all know,
y'all see me play, you'll knowmy running is down. It was
a physical back, right, Andthat was part of the reason it was
because during that time, that wasthe nature of the beast. Yeah,
of being a running back, ofbeing a football player, you had to
be physical. Um. And youknow some backs, you know, we're
able to do that. Guys thatwe know of like Barry Sanders, right,

(17:22):
he is side to side, hewill juke you, he will run
around you smaller, you know,and he's a little smaller, so it
works for him, right, youknow, I was a little bigger,
a little taller, a little leaner, so obviously I could juke you,
but you know it was actually easyto run you over right, I'll go
right through you. And that wasmy mindset basically at that age. And
just those those goals that you weretalking about earlier, four hundred plus rushing

(17:44):
yards in the game, I justI'm I'm just imagining coach osworn just he
he gets in front of the team, you know the chalkboard out there,
He's like, all right, gentlemen, four hundred rushing yards. Next week,
ten runs of twenty plus more yards, Like that's the same. These
goals. These are like, youknow, we'll hit these. It'll be
a light bunch mark easy for that. Did you was there any like reward
per se for for hitting that orwas it more just like, ah,

(18:07):
get that and maybe we'll consider notsomething. The big award was winning a
game. Yeah. And then Isay, individually, there were he handed
the coaching staff handed out plaques,and so for the plaques, it was
the word of the week, andusually it was like respect, accountability,
accountability, a dedication, hard work, stuff like that. It was phrases,

(18:30):
right, that would be our wordof the week. And so if
you got if you played well inthat game. Um, and we got
them after, you know, sowe played games on Saturday or Thursday night,
and then on Monday or Tuesday,you would get your plaque. You'll
be sitting there. Actually, no, I can't remember if they handed it
to you in the team meeting orit was in your locker. Okay,
it was one or the other.But you got your plaque, and that
basically was you're handing like your MVP. Yeah, you're the MVP of the

(18:53):
game. That was a great system. So everybody was for me, like
like a lot of guys, likethe older guys knew they were. I
knew about the system, and itjust to me. I wasn't sure if
they were quite motivated for that.I got a little because I'm a risk
reward and kid, I was,you know, I was. I was
raising the house where like I mentioned, I put in the hard work.
I get a little price end ofthe tunnel, right into the trip or

(19:15):
into the task. You know.I was the late I was the baby
out the house and the last one. So I was the dishwasher, actual
dishwasher. So my job obviously washingdishes, put them away, dry,
dry the dishes, put them away, and then my mom gave me that
was my allowance obviously cleaning my room. So I was used to that.
So knowing that coming in here,Oh, I noticed because I like a

(19:36):
couple of weeks went by and Isaw guys get their plaques right, and
I'm like, I was like,I never asked the question why. I
just figured that out on my own. Figure out you're gonna get that.
I'm like, okay, they playedgood. I check his stats, right,
oh okay. Then I was like, all right, I'm gonna work
for that. So I ended up, you know, getting liking that.
And then I say, I know, freshman year, I got a few
of them, sophomore in junior year, I got majority of them. Right.

(19:57):
You know that that worried. Oneday you're doing the dishwashes. Next
day you're absolutely destroying you know,case State or whoever it may be.
Back in the Big eight days asthey transitioned into the Big twelve. But
between your ninety five and ninety sevenseasons, a lot of success. Obviously
two or three seasons you're a nationalchampion, and at the conclusion of your
Nebraska career, you were second alltime in Husker rushing yards only behind Micro's

(20:22):
year, and I think a MereAbdullah has since taken over that second place
spot. So you're third on thatall time list. But regardless of top
three, is still good top threeand that's always bring up it's a it
should be an asterisk next to that. And so the reason why she brought
that up because she got into youknow, fact finding. Yeah stuff,
I've been like, I got Ijust got indicted to the Wisconsin Athletic Hall

(20:44):
of Fame. Sure that a bottommonth ago. Now ongratulation three weeks ago,
congratulations on that. And before that, I was inducted in twenty fourteen
into the Packers Hall of Fame.And so when she was getting all my
stats together to like hand out likeinvitations and all that, she that there
was numbers on there. And shefound out when right a mirror, right
before a mirror graduated there. Youknow, she saw something on the news

(21:07):
that you know, he passing meand you know, right behind Michael's year.
But she's like, and then itwas the asterix was the fact that
they counted his bow game yards.I always hear my wife in the background
when they bring up a mirror,he has a number, his number two
all, that's night. Let's nottalking about him so quick about him?
So she has a little she ishilarious, she's car she's definitely a great

(21:30):
team of mine, for sure.That's great. Let's let's maybe throw when
you're two hundred and six orange ball, y'all? How about that? Yeah,
you put me there, then I'mover four thousand exactly, And you'll
be happy to know that I've beendoing the research. I've been taking a
look at the numbers, and ifyou take a look, you'll see that
on that second spot there isn't asterixby a mirror of doual because you gotta
you gotta let the people know.You gotta let the people know it is

(21:52):
an asterix. Yeah, but uhso, yeah, and then I know
you reference something a couple like acouple of minutes ago. I'm meanted.
I wanted to add in with sowhen you talked to all my injury,
my soft year, the turf tillled to the stress fractor. Right,
and the guy who I just likeI just mentioned Doke. He was one
of our head trainers and uh goodguy he's he's been he was always a
guy him, Jerry Weber. Right, Um, a few other guys that

(22:14):
took care of us. You know, those are guys that got his back
to health. Oh yeah, wehad injuries and the unseen heroes exactly unseen
heroes, UM equipment manager, stufflike that. Those positions you like as
fans, you don't even think aboutunless you know him, right. You
might have a friend as a traineror somebody that works in the next shout
out already there you go, soum in Husker vision to those people behind

(22:37):
the scenes. But that makes theprogram and all the athletic programs work so
much behind the right. And soDoke actually brought up the fact today stand
on the sidelines, we're talking toum Neil Smith's son that's here on a
visit and uh and he said,he kind of jokingly said, you know,
well mine was a little frustrated atme on one trip, you know,
And I'm like, oh, yeah, well I brought it. I

(22:57):
said, yeah, I remember.It was. So it was the Orange
Bowl that year, my sophomore year. Um as I said, I've been
I had the turf toe. Thenthe stretch factor had stretched fracture happened on
the first play of the Colorado game, last game of the season, and
I felt it right as I madea cut. I felt it up and
it just feel I mean, itfelt like it didn't felt it was you

(23:18):
know, it didn't feel like somethingcracked, but I just feel a sharp
painting. Yeah, you know.But then the stress fracture was created.
And now, so at the timeof the injury, I guess it was
like pretty much a month away fromwhatever bowl game will be selected. For
sure, obviously we you know,not us, you know, with us
we actually went to the Big Twelve, but we lost the Texas that year.
If you remember, I didn't playin that game. Yeah, I

(23:38):
do remember in D'Angelo played and healready had a partially torn when the whole
growing muscle had become a thing forsome athletes the interior like for your abs
and all that. So he hada real he played through it. He
was It was amazing for him todo that. And did I see somewhere
was he the MVP of that game? Possibly? I thought I remembered he
had a great performance in that didpretty good. Um So, so that's

(24:03):
two weeks from my injury was theBig Twelve championship game where we play Texas
losing them. And then after thatanother two weeks or three, maybe two
and a half weeks is the ourbowl game. And yeah, we still
get selected to go to the OrangeBowl in Florida. Um, what's crazy?
You know what's interesting obviously about ourmindset and our goals for the team.
None of us wanted to go becauseit wasn't in the national title game,
right. Um. But you know, I myself or I'm more focused

(24:26):
on getting back to health. Yeah, you know, I was like,
I haven't played in over a month. I missed the Colorado game. Even
I think we won that game.I was so mad about being being hurt.
Can't control it, but it happens. It's just that's what type of
player I was. It's like,I want to be there for my teammates.
Want to get out. Yeah,I don't care if it has to
be cut off for me not toget on. And so um started we
started rehabbing, you know, andwe get down. We have been rehabbing

(24:49):
up here, swimming in the pool, you know, taking pressure off like
that, coming up with ways tomake sure I could stay in shape to
play for the bowl game. Becausemy goal was to play in that bowl
game, right you know, ifI wasn't a starter or not. I
was like, I want to play, support the team, do my job.
Um. And so we get downto Florida, probably like we always
will go two weeks ahead of time. Okay, So we had the first

(25:10):
week there kind of just get usedto to the climate because obviously it's Florida
brown in January. Visit the beach. It's hot to us, but right
it's not not warm the people andthen obviously the beach you can hang out
and all that fun stuff. Sofirst week we get there, that's when
I start my rehabbing and continue myrehabbing here. And so, long story
short of it, it's like twonights before the game, and I think

(25:32):
that one of the Knights was actuallythe night before the game. Um dope.
It was like, you know,we did our treatment early in the
day and we had a little walkthroughand he's like, I want to test
you. So I want to testit one more time and he said I
want to run on the sand andI was like, okay, I didn't
know like how it was gonna feel. I'm like all right, because I'm
you know, I'm running. Iwant to I want to see how it

(25:53):
goes, right, Obviously running onthe sand with a turf toe hurt like
hey, you know, hurt likehell. But so it got me for
you. I got a little nothappy, you know, I was mad,
but it was more mad at thefact that if still I felt,
I still felt felt pain. Youknow it was I figured it would be,
you know, almost a month away, that it would be gone now,

(26:14):
but the pain was still there.But it was actually a good thing,
having that mental I say, buildinga mental mental structure or a foundation
there of getting that frustration out.But then, you know, then by
the end of the session of runningsprints on the sand, I felt better.
You know, even I was alittle frustrated, doke thinking I might

(26:36):
have thought I was thinking at thetime he was pushing me too hard.
But I'm glad he did it,because then the next day I was able
to play. I had, likeI think I had fifty two yards rushing
a few on like seven carries,so pretty good, you know, yards
per carry average. And and forthat game that that got me ready for
the next season, because I knewI'm back fifty two yards, a hull

(26:56):
of a lot more than zero.I'll tell you that, you gotta you
gotta get used to through some degreeof pain. You know, a lot
of a lot of success in Nebraskabetween ninety five and ninety seven, and
in nineteen ninety eight you were draftedto the National Football League by the Seattle
Seahawks, third round, seventy sixto pick overall. And when you get
into the league, man, it'sit's the real deal everyone there. Yeah,

(27:17):
it's a big dog and there's lotsto contend with, right darn.
Yeah, you know, I likecrazy to think about. I mean,
I'm sure like getting that drafted.Like, I mean, obviously you went
to the drafts you were expecting toget drafted. I mean, we're any
teams you were looking at, likespecifically that you wanted to go to,
or were you just like if youwant me, I'm there. No,
it was basically you want me,I'm there. I grew up with forty

(27:38):
nine ars man. Obviously that thatwas a dream of mine. Hole,
go there. You know, ifit didn't, if I didn't go there,
it's like, all right, whoeverpicks me up, he's gonna get
a good player exactly. I'm gonnabe a guy that, you know,
like I was, you know,coachable team player and probably one of the
hardest workers in the locker room,hardest workers in the in the weight room
and are in the weight room,and hardest workers in the playbook, learning
my plays, being discipline to everydetail of what I need to do as

(28:03):
a running back. Basically, youjust wanted to jump in get your name
out there, and you went tothe same coast, So okay, close,
close enough. What we'll take itfrom now. You went to Washington
State to play for the Seattle Seahawks, and throughout ninety eight and ninety nine
you got sixty one total carries Ibelieve was sixty one carries and you average
five point four yards a carry.Now for two years, that's not many
carries because you're playing behind an establishedveteran running back in Ricky Waters, correct

(28:29):
Now, I'm sure you're grateful tolearn behind a true veteran, someone who'd
been around for a while and he'sputting up good yards. But at the
same time, you want to getout there and play. You're ready to
show the league who you are andmake a name for yourself. So yeah,
when you're looking back on the situationof being behind a veteran, how
does it make you feel now thatyou're playing careers. Everything's kind of said
and done. How does it feelreflecting on it, and how did it

(28:52):
feel in the moment? In themoment, I have been in that position
before. Remember I was four fifthon the depth chart here right, high
school ye Omaha Central. Transferring fromOmaha North to Central, I come to
a team that had a running backby the name of Damian Morrow, right
who led the state in Russian asa sophomore with eighteen hundred and some change.

(29:12):
So I knew I was gonna behis backup, right, But we
ended up becoming best friends, andwe ended up we end up being being
a two headed monster. So yeah, we basically went two starting running backs
in the backfield. We both forour juniors and senior years together. We
both had over a thousand yards each, so we had over pretty much almost
three thousand yards in a season,you know, in terms of rushing yards,

(29:36):
and then probably in the two yearswe were together, probably like six
thousand russing yards, you know.Adding if you add our stats together,
Dylan, could you imagine finishing upa geometry test and yeah, right,
you gotta go tackle a mon Greenand and company in the back Damien Morrow,
how I don't even couldn't imagine.I mean, I'm sitting there in
geology, I'm writing my stuff down, and you know, you turn in
the test. You got like fiveminutes. You're sitting there and you go,

(29:57):
all right, football game tomorrow.But yeah, and then and then
all the excitement just goes down thedrain. When you're a defensive back and
you got to tackle one of theseguys in the open field. Not a
whole lot of fun waiting for youthere. But after your years in Seattle,
you made it to Green Bay,and that's where you really establish yourself

(30:17):
as one of the league's finest players. Here's where I actually want to go
into a question that an emailer asked. We get emails here at Lincoln's studio
three one three at gmail dot com. You know, the folks want to
know what we and our guests haveto say. And Tom are emailed us
and he had some interesting questions,and one that really stuck out to me

(30:38):
was was Green Bay actually culturally differentfrom Lincoln from a football perspective? There's
nothing but football in either place.Note that, note that I'm from a
small town in Nebraska. Thanks Deuce, Tom r PS. Sorry about your
program, password loss today hanging there, We're rooting for you, Tom,
Thank you, I appreciate it.One and sixth record. Its start to

(31:00):
look rather lions like. But allbounced back and that's a guarantee. But
I'm on. Was Green Bay alot different from Lincoln in terms of that
culture surrounding football? Were there anydifferences at all? Because they seemed very
similar. It was a zero difference, zero difference. It was ball.
It was a football town about thePackers, just like here in the state
of Nebraska, everybody's Huskers. Yep, don't matter where you go. Um.

(31:21):
Obviously, it was a like termsof a cultural difference, right,
it was not you know, atthat time, I say, if you're
African American man were considered a footballplayer. Yeah, yeah, that a
school teacher, not a lawyer,a doctor, not just a pedestrian walking
on the street. Did just assumeyou were a packer in the area.
So it's gotten better, Yeah,And obviously you know, in the area,

(31:44):
and it's actually grown a lot sinceI've been there. I finally,
you know, I lived up therebasically twenty twenty two years I've been I've
never really left. That's became Thatwas my home for the last years,
even though I played for the Texans, you know, and then played game
and played for the Night as well, and in twenty tens right, part
of a little bit of twenty andeleven. So um, but for that

(32:06):
team, yep. And I neverwent to a game, I'll be honest,
but I remember them. Yeah.But the but the culture of football
is definitely they're They're They're a team, they are a fan base. The
only differences are the team colors theywere. Is it that close? They
are that close? Um? Ifelt it soon as I got there.
Um, right after the draft,I got traded, and right before the

(32:27):
draft, I got traded. Andthen after draft was you know, after
draft Mini camps OTA's and I flewThey flew me in from Seattle, and
you know, staying at the hotelwas the Midway. I was staying at
the Midway Hotel, which is like, I'm within a mile of lambeau Field.
And the next day I flew inthe day and then the next day
was our first day of meetings inOTA's right, And to see the fans

(32:51):
in the stands on the practice fieldwas crazy to me because I'm like,
this is just practice whatever there ain'tnothing going on. And then I remember
Dorsey Levin say, hey, man, this is this is Packer And is
how they come watch practice? TitleTown? Any anything that we do where
they could see us. Yeah,either pay a ticket to come see or
just come for free and set outsidethe fence and watch his play. Sure,

(33:14):
you know, watch his practice.They'll they'll do it. And I'm
like, oh, okay, Yeah, that's when I say, oh,
I've been there before. I've beenin a place like this fo Yeah,
if about three years ago here inLincoln. Man, if if the Obskers
are playing, you go to thegame. It doesn't matter what, it
doesn't matter how they're doing. Man, you show up and you show out,
and you wear your scarlet and creamand you go crazy in the stands.
And that's that's just how it goes. And I've been a title town

(33:34):
a few times myself, you know, just being from Minnesota near that area,
and it's it's a great place towatch a football game. I've been
there when it's mighty cold, don'tget me wrong, but it's great place
to watch a football game. Nowyour years coming into the NFL, everyone's
got that one moment where they've justbeen humbled like no others. Some refer
to it as you're welcome to theNFL moment. Isn't that right done?

(33:55):
I would I would agree. Imean you played, I mean when you
were there in the NFL, Ishould say you played against some some heavy
hitters like ray Lewis notable name was. Did you have like a specific moment
that you recognize when you were like, god, damn, I do not
want to play this game. I'mI will happily just drop instead of being
hit by him. Just rather whereyou're rather where you're like, Wow,

(34:17):
I'm really in the NFL NOWT man, This this is the real deal?
Is the big leagues now? Like? Because like I said, we were
so physical yeah here in Nebraska,right, it was just like it would
be a subtle surprise like oh okay, you want to bring it like that?
Right, watch the next play?Yeah go back. Um. So
that's so people that hit me harderit really much got me going. Yeah.

(34:39):
It could have been hit guys likeJohn Lynch or Lacker, Brian R.
Lacker, Derek Brooks. Right,all they did was righto the cage
because John Lynch got me with agood hit. You know, I was
warned to bottom my teammate Dorsey Levins. He said, hey, man,
when we played Taka, you gottawatch he comes down from the safety.
Sometimes you don't see him. Youknow, you can't miss him. He's

(35:00):
a big dude. Pay attention.You know. He caught me on one
player and like I said, allI did, I just it just flipped
the switch. This brought me backto the Nebraska days. You know when
Tony Velan or Tyre Williams or BigDog Coleman or Phil Ellis that hit me.
You know, it's like, allright, now I got a return
to favor. Yeah, yeah,you hit me. Now, you know
what, I gotta confined you andgive it and give it back. I'll

(35:22):
be given in the hit in thehit category. So but no, it
was it was just all about forme. It was all about respect.
You know, I'm not gonna youknow not, you know, expect him
to do their job at hitting somebody, especially me the way I ran the
ball. But yeah, John wasone he got paid back. Um Or
Lacker was one he got paid back. I like it. Derek Brooks was
one which when when he got paidback to it and I had a photo,

(35:45):
it was a photo that was givento me of the of me trucking
uh Derek Brooks, and it waslike, I mean I saw the photo,
I was like, oh my god, like I hit this man.
I just him like it wasn't evenpretty like the way the photo it has
me running the ball and I'm obviouslyrunning through him already. He's on the

(36:06):
ground, his half of his helmetis office. Wow, he's like just
reaching for me still, and I'mlike, I can't believe I ran him
over like that. I was shockedat the photo because I had a ton
of respect for him. Yeah,absolutely, you know. And it's like
you actually was able to get awaywith a hit like that and not for
him to come back for him.I mean could. But you'd be surprised

(36:27):
at how many guys in the NFLthat don't like contact. Not saying that
there books didn't run any other guysI mentioned, but you'd be a lot
surprised about how many people don't liketo be physical. And I'm like,
why are you playing football to playin Nebraska and hit the way you did.
You gotta like that contact. Yougotta be ready to go. I
gotta be amped up and ready toready to lay the smack bone on people.

(36:50):
Yeah, teammates, I had opponentsthey were like, man, what's
wrong with you? I'm like,what do you like me? I'm like,
yes, you my teammate. We'rehomi, we're here to win game.
Or hey man, hey man,we know he went to college,
you know, like, don't youremember that. I'm like, yeah,
but it's a football I'm right,I'm trying to win. Hey, I'm

(37:14):
trying to win and protect my quarterbackor whether I'm doing at the moment,
get the ball in the end zoning. Oh okay, you know because Jay
Foreman, That's why I'm referring toum. He was with the Texas,
I was with Green Bay. Weplayed him down in two thousand and two
in Houston Stadium and I had justcracked two of my ribs and I was

(37:34):
still playing. They put the ribcage on me protector, and I was
gonna try to, you know,work through it. Turf toe and other
injuries. I'm like, I'm gonnawork through this. So I played.
So I got my right at theend of the first quarter. That's when
I cracked my ribs. Oh.So I played the whole second quarter and
I was like, let me youknow, if I'll let you know.
I told the trainers and the coaches, Hey, I'll let you know at
halftime. Sure, but I'm gonnaplay this quarter out right, And I

(37:57):
did. But it was hell andJay Foreman being a you know, big
linebacker, good size. He probablywas lead on the low end two fifty,
so he wasn't small at all.And so he blitzes, you know,
it's a play action and I seehim coming and I'm like, I
had to make a business decision andI had to cut block him. I
mean usually like if I wouldn't obviously, if I didn't had to crack ribs,
I'm taking him up high and thenI'm you know, diverting him away

(38:20):
from my quarterback. But you gottacount your losses. You really got to
weigh your eyes real quick, decisive, decisive thinking of I got crack Ribs,
right, I could probably crack morerisks if I take him up high.
But because of of meat cranking oneway or the other. But let
me show my body, somebody,let me just you know, let me
take care of this. Cut blockhim. He didn't like it. He
was cutting me out. And thenat the end of the game, and

(38:42):
I told him, I said,I said, I said, Jay you
my boy, I got crack ribs. I couldn't take you up. He
was like, oh this this manhere right. And once I told him
that, he's like, oh,okay, yeah, I got you.
I said, you know, Iain't go just cut you like that respect,
you know. So he figured it. Once I told him that,
he was okay with it, youknow. So it was just, you
know, having those situations, you'vegot to be able to you know,
adjust real fast. E going torun, you know obviously and say obviously,

(39:06):
still do my protect my quarterback andeverything right, but not get killed
at the same time, with withwith with your time and your time in
Green Bay sounds it sounds like almostlike a walk in the park compared to
what you were dealing with down herein Lincoln. Man. It really goes
to show you how how well thatprepares you now, your time in Green
Bay, you know, being beingfrom Minnesota and my dad was originally born

(39:28):
in Detroit, so he got meon the Lions bandwagon, if you if
you want to call it a vandaway, if you could call it a
good now they're and they're good footballnow they're they're looking good at I think
they got a chance to win thedivision next year. I think that they
have they have a really good chance. I'd agree with that. Is that
is me as a young child.My dad, when I was a little

(39:49):
kid, he got so many soundbites of me just saying whatever. And
with with the Green Bay Packers,you know, division rivals, with the
Lions and the Vikings, and beingfrom Minnesota, it's it's possible to root
for any Wisconsin based team. Itdoesn't matter for the Packers, the Batteries.
It's a nature of that. Robertand my dad, he even had
me listen to this one that Brettfar this, Brett Farve, that I'm

(40:15):
tired of Brett Farve. That's whatmy dad. That's what he was making
me say as a young kid.And something my dad got my dad Viking
fan dedication here the Viking fan.Oh my, you should see the dedicated
guaranting skill my dad. And hegets mixed response. Most people love it
because why wouldn't you. It's alittle kid saying something. He probably barely

(40:35):
even knows who Brett farr is,but hell, he's tired of him.
He's sick of him. But somepeople didn't very much approve of my dad
using me as a young kid.And you know what, I like to
say that whenever whenever we go outto dinner, and you know, my
dad pays his meal, he's payingme royalty. He uses these sound bites
every day. Daniel wasn't doing thedishes like you where he was doing the
sound bites. That was his shortan on air talent since age two or

(40:58):
three. But you know, thatrivalry a fierce one. The Vikings Packers
rivalry a bitter one. Plenty ofgames that you played against them in your
career as a green Bay Packer,in games in which you were active.
You were eight and five against theVikings, one and one in the playoffs
against the Vikings on that fateful nightwhere Randy Moss performed that disgusting act.
So that was a night. Whenyou're reflecting on your Green Bay career,

(41:22):
what was your most memorable moment inthat rivalry because it's one that myself and
many others in the Minnesota Viking Packerrival Yeah, man, I mean,
I mean it really just all ofit because I, like I said,
I was a sports fan growing up. Watched everything football Baseball basketball also tried
new you know, rivalries in sports. You know, Baseball Yankees and Mets

(41:44):
and Dodgers stuff like that. Um, and basketball Lakers and Celtics back in
the day. And Nebraska, Colorado, Nebraska, Alorado, Nebraska, Oklahoma,
Miami, Florida. You know thoseschools like no shortage of rivalers exactly.
So I understood, um, youknow what the what the deal men

(42:04):
dealing with Minnesota once I got there, and uh and so for me,
it was like all of it wasgood, you know, in terms of
the memories went even the losses,because it was like I always wanted to
play in the NFL, being didn'tknow I was gonna be in this type
of rivalry hopefully you know, likeI said, hopefully maybe be a forty
nine er, but I wasn't.I was a packer, um. And
dealing with those guys and dealing withyou know, I just remember, you

(42:27):
know they were they their linebackers areall super heavy. They were like two
fifty five to two sixty five,big boys, big boys. They weren't
fat. The good thing they weren'tfat. So we got past them.
Not a whole lot of getting betterfor him on yeah, yeah, yeah,
And once we get out the backfieldand get past the linebackers, we
we had nothing to wear about otherthan dbs in and strong safeties and very
so we could get back. Wecould get past them. But picking up

(42:49):
the blitz wasn't fun. Yeah.Um, playing in the dome was you
know, you could you could youknow, they get the momentum going.
You could barely hear right. Um, they wasn't doing the clap then back,
no skull chan channel. But theyhad the horn. That's a big
horn, long standing tradition. Theyalways did the horn, and for most
of my teammates they hated it becausethat means that the Vikings were having a

(43:12):
good game. You heard it atevery place, you know. And so
for me, yeah, for me, I kind of like I learned how
to tune a lot of things outin sports. One it's trash talking,
yeah, and if just if you'reon a way, you're on the road.
I learned how to tune out anythingthat got the crowd going, including

(43:35):
the crowd. Like, I learnedhow to tune that stuff out mentally and
like auto, like auto from anauto response, I would almost like not
hear them because I would be sofocused on my plays because I knew what
trash talking was. I knew whatthe stadium was trying to do. If
you are the away team, they'retrying to get you off your game by
being loud by where Because being loudthen you can't hear your teammates that are

(43:57):
next to you, like a footaway from you can't. You can only
bear he read lips, throw onthe off and everyone. So I just
learned how to just key my focusin. You know, when it got
loud, I'm looking at my quarterbackslist when he's talking to me, or
if my lineman in us gott andI gotta communicate, you know, we're
using hand gestures instead of trying totalk to one another. So I just
you know, this was all businessto me. It was like, I
see what's going on and trying todistract me, get me off my game.

(44:21):
But you're not not. No,I'm not a focus. I focus
up. But for some of myteammates though, you know, it'd be
tough for them to work through it. Um the lineman obviously, the snap
out would be tough in there inthat dome. I remember when right was
it? I don't know, Ithink it was. I don't know where
they when they tore down to builda new stadium, the US Bank Stadium,

(44:43):
but I knew it was Talking tosome of my teammates, they were
like, I'm so happy that damnstadium to it down now, Like what
I was like, Wow, Ithought it was a fun place to die.
I had good games in there.They're like, no, man,
you before you got there, itwas rough. I'm like toal with the
dumb man, Okay, just beforeyou got there. In ninety eight ninety

(45:05):
nine, that was when Randy Mosswas really just starting to open it up
on the league, and I'm surehis reign of terror. He had some
good games against the Packers. Ohyeah, he did good. But but
a little story about that, likeyou said, he you know, the
little incident in the playoff game.Yeah yeah, he so our fan.
You know, fans are fans,so fans support their team absolutely through and

(45:25):
so the whole I found this out. I don't know if I found it
out that year. I found itout years later on why Randy did his
celebration like that, Yeah, itis because the visitors bus comes into the
North Stadium or South Stadium of Lambauright, and the fans you just said,

(45:45):
moons the bus while they're filling upbefore and after games. Not a
very classic yeas, but a traditionnonetheless. Yeah, so it's like,
now Packer fans, you're not You'renot innocent. Yeah, let's not get
too worked up. Yea. Sono, it was I got for me.
I was like, he's scoring atestdown. I don't care. At
first, I didn't know what hewas doing it. I was like,

(46:07):
okay, that's different, right you. And then obviously watching Sports Center all
the narrative that's brought up about it, so I was like, okay,
I'm like, I don't care.My dad's story about watching it. He
when he first saw it on TV, he he was like, I have
no idea what Randy Moss is doing. At first, like Joe Buck probably
thought, he thought, oh ishe is? He mimicking taking a dump

(46:28):
in front of Lambeau Field. Mydad was like, what the hell is
going on here? But turned outhe was just mocking that lovely tradition that
the Green Bay fan. Yeah,when you're looking back on your pro football
career, I do want to knowone thing, who was the best defender
you ever faced? I'd say NFLwise, um, defensive guys that were
impressive, that could move or couldhit hard one or they are both right,

(46:52):
Um, like I said, mentionedDerek Brooks, Right, he was
special. You know, he hada hope for me. He was the
full package because he could not onlystop the run, he could help with
the past. He's the reason forthe Tampa two defense. Yeah, because
he was a linebacker that could coverten, fifteen or fifteen yard area,

(47:13):
right, you know, with hisspeed and his smarts, his IQ for
the game, you know, readingroutes, knowing what was coming at him
defensively. So that guy I hada ton, like I said, Even
like I said, to see thatpicture where I ran him over and it
didn't look good for him, Iwas just like I almost didn't want to.
Yeah, I like try to talkabout it because he's like I had

(47:34):
so much respect for him. It'slike, man, but you know,
everybody has their day, you know. I had days where I got lit
up. Then another guy which Ididn't play against at all, but once
our team did. But the firsttime we played against him, I was
hurt, so I didn't play inthe game. Was playing against Troy Patrol
Paul Obama. Yeah, he wasa He was a tree stump. So

(47:55):
if you ever try to run overa tree stump, the car is gonna
have more the average in the treestuff. He was that like he hit
me. One time. I wasa texting and it was I was catching
catching a swing route right um,right side or say to my right,
going out the backfield. Matt threwme the ball and I saw already I
could see somebody coming, and asI could, you know, look at

(48:19):
the ball and look at who's comingat me at the same time. Then
I focused on and I was like, all right, it's Troy because I
saw his hair in the number andI'm like, okay, forty three,
that's Troy. So like, letme tuck, you know a little bit
to protect my ribs because he wascoming. He's not I knew he wasn't
tall. And I just found outtoo that somebody who knew him and played
with him that some like some yearshe would be around two sixty and I'm

(48:39):
like, what two free safety?As a free safety, I was like,
oh my god, that's why hehurt me. So I caught the
ball, Like I said, Itucked to protect, to protect myself a
little bit more and it still hurt. Hurt. I was like, Wow,
So I'm like, I'm glad Ididn't play in that division a whole
lot. Yeah, because I hadto play him a whole lot. And

(49:00):
for either one of us, we'reboth physical. I'm like, so we're
either going to hurt each other orhurt one another, you know. So
I'm glad that they have to facehim twice a year. Well, we'll
stick to the NFC for now.I'm glad he sticks. He step.
His whole career was in Pittsburgh.Yeah, we'll keep our degrees of separation.
But he was for he could cover, you know, in terms of
interceptions, calls, fumbles. Imean we've seen some of his his aquabacks,

(49:22):
throwing, jumping in the backfield atbe snap, just having a phenomenal
football instincts and just letting and thenhis talent. You know, coaches kind
of just let him play. Heknew the defense, he knew he was
like the quarterback of the defense,so he would just see things that you
know that the film maybe didn't pickup and just have his instincts take over

(49:44):
to go make a play here orthere, you know, jumping over the
line getting the sack or sure youknow it's one. It was fourth and
shut and he's jumped, you know, jumped the ball, the snap count
gets the sack and now it's theirball making plays like that is. Seeing
him up around, I'm like,man, I would I would love to
play with him if I was alinebacker oor fellow safety, Like, that's
my I'm playing with this dude.We's gonna be We're gonna cause a lot

(50:06):
of damage. Yeah, we're gonnaWe're gonna recabna recab it on backfields and
wide receiver try and go over themiddle. It ain't gonna be pretty.
Yeah. They say defense wins championships. And the guys that you named,
you know, Derek Brooks, thecenterpiece of that vicious Buccaneers defense that destroyed
I believe they beat up pretty badon the Raiders and that Super Bowl yeah,
oh three, I believe it was. And then Paulamalu, the star

(50:28):
of the secondary for the Super Bowlforty five and forty three, not forty
five, super Bowl forty I believeSuper Bowl forty and forty three squads when
they took down the Seahawks and theCardinals respective when when you got guys like
that holding the glue of the defensemaking plays that it's real tough to real
tough to lose. Yeah. Now, another thing that I really want to

(50:50):
hear from you about. I wantto hear about this um the issue that
running backs have run into late intoday's NFL. You know, at least
running backs. As offenses shift towardsyou know, they shift away from ground
heavy, heavy, ground game orientedattacks to more pass heavy offenses. Running
backs just aren't being used quite asoften for running the balls as they used
to be, But they're still gettingcompensated, you know, roughly the same

(51:15):
amount or in some cases even lessbecause the position is simply you know,
it's less of a demand. Buttheir careers are still just as short and
you know, all the wear andtear that goes on with your body in
that position getting pounded constantly, andthey want to change because they're getting out
of the league pretty quickly. Theyhave some of the shortest leagues of any
position, in the shortest years outof anyone, and they're not getting compensated

(51:37):
adequately. Is there any potential solutionto this problem? How? What would
you do to fix this issue thatrunning backs are facing into the well.
There's for a few teams that stillgive the running back the ball majority of
time. Right, Tennessee Titans,forty nine Ers Ravens. Right, they're
running first team. And it's justmy set of the coach to coach,

(52:00):
you know how if he's not callingplays, who his offensive coordinator is and
what type of schemes they plan out, because I mean, as the game
we know now NFL, it's moreof a passing game than it was during
my time, absolutely, and sowhen they look at offensive coordinators, look
at the offense of a scheme ofa passing team or trying to compete in

(52:22):
a league that's a passing dominant league, you see the fact that, you
know, running backs can be aliability to the offense if you're a pass
first offense. But to win gamesand win championships, you cannot be a

(52:42):
pass first offense. You gotta havea multifaceted You gotta have talented players offensively,
quarterbacks you know that are very talentedin terms of distribution of the ball
and offensive line that could protect him, and then also you know, protect
the run game in terms of helpingyour running backs, right, and so
it's really to me, I don't. I say it's there only because I

(53:05):
think coaches feel they have to gowith the with the crowd. So they
see all thirty other teams passing theballs. Five receivers are six feet tall,
they run four three's kind of gottafollow their lead. Yeah, you
and you, but it's like beingyour own coach, right, I mean
no, if you know the rungame, and you but you and a

(53:25):
lot of coaches know the fact thatif you look at the stats, most
of the teams that win the SuperBowl, I say, minus Kansas City
has passed you know a few times. But there is some similance of a
run game, right, And soif you believe that you canna pass the
ball eighty percent of the time,you're you're lying to yourself. Ain't gonna
win, You're lying to yourself.You mean, everybody doesn't have Pat Mahomes

(53:50):
or Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers orLamar Jackson, you know, any of
nobody has those quarterbacks. You know, when you got the great quarterbacks,
maybe you can be passed. Maybemaybe maybe even then obviously we've seen they
will struggle because with the pass game, it's when the ball is in the
air, it's a liability. Youknow, handing it off is a little
different than throwing it fifty yards,sixty yards, eighteen yards comeback route.

(54:13):
A lot can happen when that alot when that ball is in the air,
because you have defenders. You havelinebackers that are smart, like I
mentioned, you got dbs that arecrafty, you got strong safeties, free
safety that are you go. Andthen you got the defensive coordinators that's putting
these players in the positions to winright to tip the ball to get the
interception. So I'd rather take allthose variables out, yeah, and deal

(54:34):
with just handing the ball off,doing more like a sixty forty split.
Sure, you know, obviously I'mgonna throw the ball when I need to
throw the ball if it's one ofthose situations. But I'm definitely loosing up
the defense with the run game first, right, that's that's gonna come throwing
the town, all right, wegotta pass to save our lives. No,
I'm gonna still this is me.I'm gonna run the ball a couple
of times and now to get itto where it's third and medium. Okay,

(54:57):
that's a chance where we have ahigh percentage to get a all completed.
We only have five to six yardsto go, right. You know,
we ran the ball. First down, we got two yards, random
bar, second yard we got three, or second down we got three,
or we got four yards, sowe got six yards to go thirty medium.
Now this is a winning, winnablesituation. There you go. You
know, if we catch, youknow, catch, do a short route,
boom, we don't have to goeighteen twenty yards to make a completion.

(55:17):
Part of it is, you know, you got to keep the defense
guessing. You know, when yougot teams with with got got like weapons,
like if you take the Kansas CityChiefs for example. Now Tyreek has
since gone to the Dolphins, butwhen they had Kelsey and Tyreek, you
know, and Mahomes you know herunner himself. Yeah, he can run.
You know, you never know wherethese guys are gonna go with the
ball. And they've they've they've producedgood running backs in their systems. So

(55:39):
when when you get a team thatcan, you know, a multi pronged
attack, a multi faceted offense,it's it's real tough. So I think
that the position of running back inthe National Football League it's not going anywhere.
It's certainly changing, and it willchange, it'll continue to change,
but it's not going anywhere. Yeah. This NFL team, and I say,

(56:00):
NFL coordinators and head coaches have justbetter respect the game, right,
the run game, because if theydon't, they're going to struggle. Yeah,
their teams offensively are going to struggle. Right. Just curious speaking of
Wisconsin, you know you mentioned earlierspent would you say twenty years? Yeah,
two twenty two years. But whilebeing up there, you had a
lot of different options for work.You know, you sports analysts, you

(56:22):
did some high school coaching, andthen you ended up being an esports coach
successful one at that too. Wasthere any like did you like, uh,
I don't know, like go outand find those or were they just
like presented to you and you just, you know, in that moment,
said you know, that's something Ithink I can handle or something I want
to take on. Yeah. Theesports job I got reached a friend of

(56:44):
mine. He heard of the opportunityand he could gave me a call,
okay, And so I was basicallya reach out. Sure. And then
like the high school coaching, Ijust talked to high schools that I already
I knew on some level my kidswent there or something. Reached out to
the head coach and say, hey, would you mind me come to you
know, coach for you know,being an assistant on your roster right you
know. Of course it was like, yeah, well we'll definitely welcome man.

(57:06):
So I'm doing you know, let'sdo it. So that's where I
started coaching high school. I thinkit was twenty twelve, twenty thirteen,
somewhere in there. Okay, coachmy stepson high School down in Oak Creek,
which was great. We won adivision. We went ten and one
ice. Yeah, we were lostin the second round in the playoffs on
a hell Mary. And I wastelling that I was a coach linebackers,

(57:29):
coach running backs on offense and linebackerson defense. And I was before the
play happened. I was telling allmy defensive backs get like basically staying on
the end zone. Get back,get back. I was staying get back.
And the one kid was he wasn'tyou know, wasn't that he was
not back? He just like Isaid, the ball just was just passed
his fingers and the receiver was behindhim instead of in front of him,

(57:50):
and if here, because he wasin front of him, he would have
got the tackle because he was ashirt. He was a shure tackler.
Good kid. Yeah, and hewas all stayed as a freshman. He
was a corner. He was allstayed as a freshman, was a baller.
Hey, we know one of thoseYeah, we got, we got.
We got an all state corner onour four of you four roster.
He's gonna shell out next week.Yeah. So but now you know I
started my career. But yeah,then you know, then years later,
um, twenty nineteen, the endof twenty nineteen going into twenty twenty,

(58:13):
that's when I got My friend foundout that because he once was a faculty
member at Lakeland and student there,and he reached out to me because he
was in one of their meetings aboutthe hell they were planning out their esports
program. You know, they hada club team just like here and was
now going to take it to theVRC level. And my name. He
threw my name in the in thehat and he did. He call me

(58:34):
up the next day say, Amna, I got you, I got you
on the list for two a coupleof jobs at my old school, and
I said, love it. Isaid, you know me, Well,
so it's gonna be football and videogames and he said perfect. Perfect,
And so I got all the information, emails people who I needed to talk
to UM and to do to startthe interview process right. And it started

(58:55):
that Monday. I was like,on a Saturday I found out and Monday,
you know, I made all thephone calls and emails resume and all
that just just in case, UM, they want to see that. And
then probably a couple of days later, UM David Simon Junior, who was
they had esports at that time incampus affairs or student affairs you know,
record rec basically, and he cameto the house. We did an in

(59:19):
person interview. Then like a weeklater I came to campus to did a
walk around, and pretty much bythe time I got to campus, it
was pretty much a solid deal.I like it, And like a two
days later we did an official pressconference on February seventeen, twenty twenty,
and then a month later we werein COVID. Yeah, and I say
the cool part about it was,I was like this, ain't I say,
COVID's not gonna stop video games?Yeah, I can't stop it.

(59:43):
If anything, it helped it.Yeah, we're online. I could reach
out through the players, through emails, through Microsoft teams, through discord,
plenty of ways to connect. Victlyto talk to parents and teachers or head
coaches for esports teams that were umhigh school teams in the Wisconsin you know
area at that time though, Butyeah, you know, having varsity sports

(01:00:06):
team at the high school level aswell. So it was real, real
easy process. And I think inthe three years I outrecruited most of the
traditional sports there we go that wasthat was already had been down. Yeah,
I've been on any any roster ofteams of you know, traditional esports
or traditional sports right four hundreds ofyears, and I was out recruiting them.
Having a mon Green you know,that's that's certainly gonna help having you

(01:00:27):
know, hey, you could becoached by one of the greatest running backs
of all the time. You know, that's that's a pretty good selling point
right there now, he said,Lakeland University of Plymouth, Wisconsin. That's
towards the east side where you tookup a lot of your et sports coaching.
And I'm on, I gotta ask, what's your favorite video game of
all time. He personally COVID,Like Dylan said, COVID really helped me
out. I got so good atHalo. It was sad Halo two anniversary

(01:00:52):
And are you played that? Youwent back and played that. I went
back and played Halo. Halo,Halo and Call of Duty are my game.
Yeah, I guess like thinking aboutit, Like during COVID, I
was playing Black Ops two all thetime, right, specifically the zombies version.
That's that's kind of my It's apopular one. Love me some zombies,
but I mean it depends, likeI'll go like genre genre wrote wise,
I would say shooters, Halo,Halo Infinite. You know if I

(01:01:14):
did Halo. I was doing Halofar heavy before Infinite came out and been
waiting, was waiting ten years.Yeah. Sure. Sports games probably my
favorite is Madden, but I playall of them. Two k or when
NBA Live was a thing, inFIFA, NHL, I play all those
Rocket League rat and then I stillhaven't got time in but I will um
on League A Legends. I knowhow to coach it. Yeah, studied

(01:01:37):
did it enough? Okay to understand? Yeah, we gotta how you built
out a comp We gotta some friendswho are decent legal legends, but they'll
play themselves some legal legends. Ifor a lot of that freshman year that
was mostly Andrew, Andrew and Jackson. Andrew and Jackson, my freshman year
roommates. They they dabbled in alot of league. I'd be walking into
the room and I'd head over totheir side of the room and I'd take
a look at the computers. They'regrinding out legal legends, and a lot

(01:01:59):
of times they're they're not. Alot of times occasionally there'd be some bitterness,
there'd be something, you know,they throw the mouse down and then
they just turn away. It's arage inducing game, man, it can
it can do your dirty. Yeah. They can't let your game tip tilt
you. You can't. I don'tcare what game it is. At the
end of the day, it's avideo game. It's a video It's a
game, you know, just anothergame, just like playing tennis or basketball
or football flag football, like y'allguys do so correct same at the end

(01:02:22):
of the day. I'm just seeing. I'm just curious. Just this is
from my own pure enjoyment. Youplaying Fortnite at all? Fortnite? Yeah,
definitely, No builds, no builds, I know. I told my
nephews all of them that play,I said, look, I don't build.
I shoot. I'll take care ofthe gazebos and the houses. I'll

(01:02:42):
put headshots and people. That's it. You give you give me the you
give me the double pump. I'mnot. I'm not doing no building.
I'm not finding none of that,none of that. Nope. I appreciate
you. I respect that a lot. I respect it, you know.
I respect the building to be ableto do both. Hey, like y'all
were born into it, not me. I don't even play a lot of
Fortnite. I've only played a handfulof games. But when I watched my

(01:03:04):
brother play, I'm just sitting back. He gets it. He gets in
a quick gunfight, but and thenhalf of his health is drained. Then
bam, he's he's building up along. It's like, well, just
go in there and finish the job. Man, you gotta have a little
faith in your skill set to goback in there and just go guns blaze.
If you go in there, theymight have healed up real quick.
Yeah, and then boom, you'reday. So you gotta be smart about
that. I've seen it happen alot of strategy, and it is I

(01:03:29):
I usually stick to Halo and Callof Duty, particularly Call of Duty Zombies
because those are games that I've beenplaying him for so long and there's still
skill involved obviously, but it's yeah, they're they're pretty simple games when you
compare Wave Wave A Zombies got ahandle all right, and the you know,
the side quests and the zombies mapscan be pretty fun. Easter eggs
in particularly, I've done a fewof those with my players. Which which

(01:03:52):
Easter eggs have you done? OnBlack Ops two three? Maybe it was,
well, it was the last fewyears I started to play a little
bit with my players for just likea wreck day, a fun day.
Yeah, um, I can't remember. I remember it was something to do
with where you had you know,you go on the map and you get
so many kills, and then forevery time you kill so many you have

(01:04:15):
to basically you're getting ready to getv to was it lifted out right before
the helicopter comes in? Accomplishes thesethings? And I remember it was either
something to do with the obsidian,you know, the color of the gun
the skin for the gun is eitherthat or how many headshots you could get
in a row or something like that, and then it gives you an extra

(01:04:36):
you know, um like a utilityfor your gun that you could add on.
It was something. It was oneof my players just had an obsession.
That's because that's what he did whenwhen he wasn't playing competitive Call of
Duty, he would go into zombiesand do duties, all these missions to
find different crystals or whatever to addto his his his load out. That

(01:04:58):
sounds like color cold war zombies tome at time. It was no,
it was modern warfare because it wastwenty twenty oh modern war, modern warfare.
Remember, I do remember that partof it. If you're ever,
if you're ever looking for some greatzombies easter eggs side quests to complete the
best ones, you have to takeit back to twenty fifteen. But Black
Ops three, that game is amasterpiece. The zombies mode on there have

(01:05:19):
that. It's a phenomenal game.If you just hop back on any of
the old maps and look up sometutorials on how to do those yea,
And that's what it was. Ihad to be. I remember one of
my players trying to coach me through. I had to be at this part
of the map at a certain time. This is when the student becomes the
mass. And then I was like, all right, whatever, you know,
it happened. And I was like, all right, just curious as

(01:05:41):
you've got you here right next tome. You're a pretty still well athletically
built guy. You've got some greatmuscles. I can see you're trying to
look like you here soon. Whatdo you What are you doing these days
to stay active? I mean,like you see a lot of the guys
in the NFL switched to like playinggolf, for like pick up basketball.
You're doing anything like that these days? Out sided playing video games. No.

(01:06:01):
I wake up every morning, Isay, I say my regime.
My regiment is five days a week, right, I get it in some
way, shape or form. I'mdoing right now, mostly body weight circuit
intervals, lifting weights or lifting mybody, push up, sit ups,
planks, mountain climber and stuff likethat, right keeping you know, staying
real flexible. I'm doing yoga onthe weekends. I like it, you

(01:06:25):
know. And cardio once or twicea week if not more, either on
my peloton or on a treadmill.I admire that a lot, you know,
as you can see by my armsand my muscles. Here, I'm
not much of a lifting guy.I did cross country in high school,
and when I work out, Istrap out my running shoes and I hit
the trails of link and that's that'sthat's what I'm about. Personally. I
just can't do the gym. Ican't do weights when I when I step

(01:06:47):
outside to go on a run,I feel very free. You know,
it's just me and the sidewalk infront of me. I can make the
workout beat whatever I want. Butwhen I'm in the weight room, I
feel cramped, hot, sweaty.I can see, I can see that
it's personally not my thing. Butmost people are the reverse. They love
the weight room, they dislike thecardio. I learned to love all of
it as it helps your body.You do. You do a lot of

(01:07:10):
different stuff. You know, modalities, training regimens, you know from cross
country to football to baseball. Youknow training styles. You keep your body
in better in better shape. Right, So I've that's why I do peloton
where I could. I mean,I'll be on that peloton and I'll go
easy hour, and I could goan hour or till I get around fifteen
miles on that hour and a half. I'm getting close to twenty right,

(01:07:33):
I'm cranking, and so you know, I switched that up with then doing
little football intervals and stuff I usedto do back in the day. The
good thing is I don't have toget ready to run touchdowns and run people
over, you know, but Icould still have my body ready to go
right. You know, it doesn'tmean because I'm not doing it no more.
I don't have to complete stop it. And that's how I for myself,

(01:07:54):
that's how I look at it.I'm a I'm not gonna leave the
way to loan them. That's whatgot me where I was, right and
it's gonna keep me healthy. ButI also know I don't have to do
them every day exactly. I haveto lift a ton alway. I don't
have to lift five hundred pounds likeI used to on my back squat don't
need no, don't need none ofthat. But if I want to do
some you know, some interval squatcircuits for thirty seconds, burning out,

(01:08:14):
get real lean, there you go. You gotta stay fit, staale lean,
but you don't gotta be ready totruck Derek Brooks or no. Now,
if they down for that life.Hey all right, I'm ready.
I've been working out. How aboutyou. Well, we'll come out of
retirement, give me a time anda place, will not back down,
just like we'll take it back totwo thousand and three, real quick,

(01:08:35):
real quick, and when I seeyou, it's up. Yeah, I
think you know, Dylan. Episodefive. It's been a good one.
It's been a great one. Ithoroughly enjoyed my time here, you know,
having a legend in the booth likea mon Green it's big. I'm
on. Thank you so much fortaking the time. I really appreciate joining
us here. We really appreciate you, no problem, thanks for having me.
We got Dylan Sash here as always, my lovable co host, the

(01:08:58):
man with probably the most welcome here, probably the most gorgeous ginger hair,
the luscious locks I've ever seen inmy entire line. Stop, Daniel,
I can't. That's how we operatehere. It's there's a lot of love
in this room. So real quick, though, I want to say,
I do my podcast tomorrow eleven am. It's gonna be Central Standard time.
A mong Greens Gamers Lounge on liveon YouTube and my Twitch channel a mon

(01:09:19):
Green Tv Wednesdays at eleven am Central, a mong Green Gamers Lounge, a
mon Greens Gamers Lounge on YouTube,and a mon Green TV on Twitch.
You heard it here, folks.Check it out if you're interested, which
you should be. I want Iwould love to follow along with you playing
video games. You lived a dreamlife, you know, playing football,
and now you're doing the video gamething. If I could play football and

(01:09:41):
video games, hey, for mycareer, I would never have a bad
one at all. I would nevercomplain. I'm on. Thank you so
much for joining us. You're welcome. He's Dylan Sash. I'm Deuce and
this is Studio three thirteen. Seeyou later. Guys, you've been telling
me you're genius since you were seventeen, and all the time I've done you,

(01:10:02):
I still don't know what you mean. The weekend in the college didn't
turn off like you playing the thingsthat passed the knowledge. I can't understand.
Are you realtting thees stowing away atthe time? Are you gathering apporte