Billy Huard – Former NHL Athlete & Author - Suds With Luds

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Thank you to Herman Marshall Whiskey forsponsoring another episode of SuDS with Luds.
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(00:22):
by name. Thank you again,Herman Marshall Whiskey. Welcome there kind of
a coming back party for SuDS withLuds. I've been vacationing for three months

(00:46):
up north, and no a betterway to come in than the my favorite
guys to play within the league thanthe meat heads, the enforcers, the
roughnecks. This one's a little different. Billy Howard ish falls in that category

(01:06):
of the ultimate teammate. And I'msure, Shuie you're going to tell me
that all you guys are like that. But I do have a couple of
stories about your HUEI that we maytouch on a little bit later that you'll
be interested in rehashing a little bit. But anyway, Bill Howard twelve years
in the NHL labeled as an enforcer. But welcome, Hueie. How you

(01:30):
doing, Lottie? What's up doing? Great man, it's finally re aligned
that we were out there during theplayoff season and we were cheering on our
stars and I lost my voice,so i couldn't come into the studio.
So I'm glad we are able todo it virtually anyways. But my apologies.
Are we going to get the realstory on that how you lost your

(01:51):
voice? Because you were going prettyhard in a sweet that night, not
not drinking or anything like that,just telling your stories and being you.
So I thought maybe something happened afterI love no no, No. It's
kind of like a trade show andyou're and you're not used to talking that
much, you lose your voice.I think maybe old ages get kicking into
a little oh here, let's notgo with the old age thing. You

(02:12):
can all see you guys say thatshit like when you're around guys like me
that are older than you. Sothat's a little it's a little dig I
think, really, what do youhey, how do you You're out in
California and how do you How doyou like that life out there? I
like it. I mean, itreally suits my lifestyle, right, you
know, I live in an areawhere I can get on my mountain bike
in the morning and hit the trailsand things like that. You know,

(02:36):
obviously, if you don't get involvedin the politics of California and things like
that, then it's a lot moreenjoyable. But my kids have grown up
here. This is what they callhome, you know. Colton and and
my and my kids come home fromhis hockey season, he's happy. I
mean, he surves, he grewup surfing and things like that. So
it's a long way from Canada,but we've called it home for for a

(02:59):
number of years, so I'm prettywell since retirement. You you say,
get away from politics, How howthe hell do you do that in that
state because it just seems like I'mnot a guy that watches a ton of
the news. But and and tobe honest, I've never I've never even
voted, and I think it'd bea travesty if I did, because I

(03:21):
don't follow her enough. And ifyou said vote for this dude, I'd
probably vote for that guy, notknowing any of it. But how do
you separate yourself like you just notnot tune into stuff. For do you
do you get into conversations where youdo express your opinions, you just avoid
the whole the whole topic. Imean, I think, I think,
and it's a touchy subject, youknow, politics, But for me,

(03:43):
I think people here are read orlisten to what they want to listen to.
So if you're on one side,you only watch this news station.
If you're on the other side,not a lot of people listen to both.
I find myself, I you know, I try to get engaged and
as little as I can first andforemost because I'm you know, I'm not.
That's not my world. But Ido, you know, I listened

(04:04):
to both sides and I try andstay neutral. But I think what's happened
with politics, and I don't knowif it was structured in such a way,
but you know, for me,in my mission life and things like
that, is you know, arestriction from reaching people. So if you
know, I always say this asan example where I mountain bike, We've

(04:25):
had a mountain we've had mountain lionattacks and things like that. We actually
lost a gentleman in two thousand andfour. If you're on your mountain bike
in a Mountain Lion is on topof somebody or you know, you're not
asking them what what are they?Republican? Are conservative? You're helping them,
right, And I just think that'swhat's happened. I just think people
people can't agree to disagree, andit's it's just it's it's altering relationships or

(04:50):
people that you could otherwise reach goodfriendships. Was so I kind of stay
clear of it, to be honestme, I mean, obviously we all
have our certain there's certain things thatyou know as a believer. For me,
there's certain things that I you know, but I'm open to discussion and
everything else. So I try notto go down that path. But when
I do, I don't want itto because I've seen families separated from that

(05:11):
and it's just it's it's craziness.So to your point, Luds, I
think sometimes just keep the news offand stay neutral with you know, with
your own beliefs and and don't pushthem too hard on everybody else. That's
the way I look at it,and that's that's how you can survive in
California. I do believe everybody's leavingCalifornia. They're going for Texas and they're
going to Idaho. But I thinkstaying here in California for me is a

(05:33):
good thing because there's a lot ofpeople that need help. And that's the
way I look at it. Ilook at it in a positive way.
Yeah, I kind of. IfI'm watching something like that and it's something
that I obviously don't know too muchabout it, or I completely disagree,
I just switch over to the channelforty eight. Uh, actually maybe it's
sixty eight up here, but they'redown here. I should say it's the

(05:55):
Game Show now, yeah, exactly, and and and a lot of the
shows I watch it from. Andthen you know how bad I am on
the Game Ship because I'd like toget things right. And I watch the
guy with the regis who wants tobe a millionaire, and they ask these
questions and I nail the first fiveall the time because these is a four
year old could answer the questions right. They want to give them their thousand
dollars. And then I pause itwhen I don't know it, and I

(06:17):
ask Google, and so I say, hey, Google, you're batting a
thousand. So I get the answersall the time, Hey you mentioned a
mountain lions And when you're riding youryour little pedal bike there, and we'll
get into the bikes with the motorson it too. But do you carry
anything with you? No, Ido when I do, when I do
solarides, BacT I just have.I just honestly, I don't carry side

(06:41):
arm or things like that. Ido have them, but I don't care
it. What I carry is.I just carry like bear spray, like
in that way if I do getin you know, like you know,
I mean typically they say, Imean, there's chances are you know,
are so slim it's like getting hitby lightning. But I mean, you
do see those videos where a mountlion pops out on a trail and starts
walking towards you. So I dowant to have something. I mean,

(07:02):
I'm a big guy, and ifyou make yourself up. But the lady
that's actually picking up my dogs todayfor a week while I'm up in Canada,
she's seen two mountain lions two weeksago, all in like within two
days, and one was right nextto her. So they're out here,
and you know, people are movingin around this area, and we are
in the you know, we arebacked up to a huge national park However,

(07:24):
you know, we have a lotof fires and things like that that
push wildlife in our neighborhoods a lot. So typically the mountain lions all have
callers on them out here, lud, so they kind of can follow them
and stuff. Certain times they don't, but yeah, I do. I
carry me. I carry bear sprayjust in case they should put them shot
collars on them. Maybe that would. Yeah, I don't know what give
you guys all about. It doesn'thelp my cattle dogs. I don't offer

(07:46):
to help them outlines. Hey,earlier you just you mentioned your son,
Colton kid before we get into yourself. How's he doing and a little bit
about his journey. Yeah, Ithink he said he's gonna attend the Blues
camp. Yeah, he went tothe Blues camp, had a really good
camp, and I know he wentout he I know that. I think

(08:09):
he went out for dinner with Almckinnis and Kit Chuck and they had a
really good conversation. And I thinkthey're gonna they're high on him, and
you know, you know how itgoes. Uh, you know, he's
got a lot of things have toline up, but he's a free agent
at university to Hampshire. He's goinginto his third year. He's had two
really good years. Just a big, offensive, right handed defenseman. That's

(08:31):
that's uh. You know, he'she's got the uh, he's got the
skill set and the mindset to playat that level. But he definitely needs
another year of college. So they'regonna track him again. This year.
They got Glenn Wesley, I thinkworks with their defense, so I think
they're gonna watch him his videos andstuff and kind of help them and things
like that. That's what that's That'swhat he told me. So he's he's

(08:54):
fired up, you know, asa free agent, and the team's going
to be I think marginally better thanit was last year. I mean,
they went two months without winning agame, so it's pretty hard not to
be. But they're in a toughdivision. I mean, when you're in
New Hampshire, you're up against BUBoston College, Northeastern, and you played
at North Dakotolage. You know howhard it is to get Boston kids to
play at New Hampshire when they allwant to play in Boston at Harvard.

(09:18):
So but it's been an absolutely perfectspot for him. He was in a
tough spot. You know when hebecame available, when he was you know
in terms of scholarships and going toD one, COVID hit so all the
seniors got an extended years. Sohe was talking to BC in certain colleges,
but seniors came back and that gapclosed. So there was only a

(09:39):
few schools that really showed interest andUNH really stepped up, so Worth rolled
with it. It's been great.Well, I think he's going to a
good organization for sure, and weknow Doug Armstrong and in my opinion,
Army is one of the top twothree general manners in the NHL, and
he gets it. And as aas an organization, they're not really you

(10:03):
know, they got all these terms. Now they're not in a rebuild kind
of thing, but they're I thinkthey're in a retool and so basically,
you know, there's a couple ofyoung guys are going to start counting on
that. I got big contract kickingin this year, and so you know
what, I think, Army's thatkind of guy that understands, hey,
we've got to add a couple ofdifferent pieces, and we go add some
younger pieces and they've got some guysto build around. They do have some

(10:24):
Defenseman, Perico Crew, things likethat that, you know, some veteran
guys. So it's a good spot. So Billy, I want to ask
you, you know, when wewere playing together. I want to know
how whatever happened to Hugh Dog's hog. I don't know what happened. I
sold it. I miss it.I give miss I do miss the bite.

(10:48):
But have you written lately? Imean, when's the last time you
got something? I tore my uhmy hip flex here three weeks ago.
I got into this and there riding. So I'm on a five o one
Husky like a dirt bike, butkind of a street bike dirt bike.
So that's what I love. Imean a mountain bike and a dirt bike.
I love it, absolutely love it. It's just getting out for me.

(11:11):
It's about getting out. It's kindof like road bike versus mountain bike.
You know, Harley's and things likethat. You know that we had
were a lot of fun. ButI really enjoyed this same as mountain bike,
just getting out in the woods,just just having swun. I remember
the first time when when when Billygot traded here and he wanted a bike

(11:33):
and he wanted to ride with us, we had seven, eight guys,
nine guys, whatever it was atthe time. And I don't think Bob
Danny or general Manager Reill fired upabout all that. But I remember that.
I remember the day that Carbo.Wasn't it Carbo that told you that
you could use his bike and takeit for a ride. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, And he laid it down, laid it down in about a
block or something. Yeah. Hejust had his tanks painted with the Stanley

(11:56):
cups, I think two Stanley cupsor three, and he goes, you
know, make sure you don't youknow, and I said, hey,
just give me it. I pulledinto an establishment I probably shouldn't have been
visiting, and I hit I hitloose, I hit loose gravel, and
I hit the front break, which, as you know, Lad, you
write all the time as a no, no, and uh. And then
the next day I took it.And I remember me and you were talking.

(12:18):
I'm like, dude, what doI tell him? And I think
you told me. You're like,just you know, the sprinkler systems come
on and you know, in yourneighborhood or something. So that was my
story. But I mean that thatstory lasted all about thirty seconds and anyways
it went. It wasn't so muchyou know how much it costs. It
was he had to wait again forit to get repainted. So well,
that was a great group of guys, I mean, that was that was

(12:41):
a special you know, and megoing there, I just kind of wanted
to fit in with with that group, you know, and you know in
terms of more than hockey and andthat, you know. I mean I
got there and then new He camein. It was just a special group
of guys there. I remember youwere scared show list I think at the
time, and it would have tobe a future Hall of Famers bike that

(13:03):
you're like a Stanley Cup and captainin the Montreal Canadian. But there's there's
one more. Well, but beforeyou got your bike, before you got
that bike, and you you mentionedit, you said it established you probably
shouldn't have been a well we've allbeen in those wrong established is that?
And I know the first time thata bunch of us went to one of
those places, you didn't have abike at the time, and you had

(13:24):
your you had this little shovett orsome little tiny car that you did you
look like, oh yeah, youlook like you were in a clown car,
so I mean, you didn't fitin the thing. And so we
all pulled up to the front andwe're all getting on and said, hang
on, here, he's parking whateverit was a little wagon that you had,
and he's parking in the back.And we waited and we waited,

(13:45):
and I'm like, well, whatthe hell's he doing? So I walk
around the side of the building lookingfor you, and there you are,
and you kind of stuck your handout the window and you said, hey,
hang on, I'll be right there. You got out of your car.
You had your Harley gloves on.You put a band on the car.
No, I didn't have I didn'thave the gloves. You know.
What happened was, oh, youhad the figureless gloves on. You wanted

(14:07):
to come in like you were ridingit. And I came in. No,
I had to boot. What happenedwas I ordered my Harley, but
I came in with a coat andthe boots that I bought, which,
by the way, the first ridewith her Harley, I burnt the heel
off that boot. Rookie. Wewalked down the Apple and I started limping

(14:31):
and I'm like what I looked downwe pulled up to the bar to have
a beer and I went to goto the bathroom and I started limping into
the bathroom. But that was agood that was you know, that's a
kind of group we had, though. Man, that's why how you guys
want to stay on the cop honestly. Yeah. Yeah, So let's let's
get into this, Billy. Youhave a book out and I got it

(14:54):
right here, and yeah it's Iread the thing and there's parts in here
that you know that blew me away. And there you get into the book
a little bit and I was alittle whoa what uh? You know?
A purpose worth fighting for? Son? Can you tell me, first off,

(15:18):
when did you finally say to yourself? And we can go back in
time after this, but when didyou finally say to yourself, I'm going
to write a book? Because Idon't think it's you know, it's funny,
because I'm glad you did, becauseI've had three or four people asked
me. And there's a guy rightnow currently that wants to do it,
and I'm like, man, I'mnot that interesting kind of guy. And
he goes, yeah, you gotgood stories and all this kind of the

(15:39):
kind of stuff. But so whatdoes it take to get to the point
where you go, I need totell the story. So that's a great
question. I started the book.I started the book kind of when I
first retired. I was kind oflike a bitter retired hockey guy. I
was like, you know, Ihad I've overcome everything to make it to

(16:02):
the NHL. I was never draftedto junior and I have all this in
the book. And you know,my first the draft, I went down
to the draft table. They thoughtthe Rangers thought they drafted me, but
they didn't. But me and mydad sat there for so long in Detroit.
I just went down to the drafttable and went to New York Rangers,
up to Esposito and asked for atrial. You know, there's certain

(16:23):
elements within my life that I continuedto strive. My first NHL game wasn't
I had to leave the ice becausethey didn't have me under contract. That's
in the book. I have severalstories like that. But what had happened
was I started the book almost likea fine wine. I started the book
and I was a bitter retired NHLenforcers that why did I have to be

(16:45):
that guy? I wanted to growup scoring the goals. You know,
I felt like my dream had beenstolen, and I was dealing with a
lot of anxiety and stress. Iwas in. I was depressed. I
was going through a lot. Andjust the transition from any from you,
from retirement to post hockey, asI'm sure you're aware, it's not an
easy one. There's only so manyjobs in the NHL for guys, and

(17:07):
then and then you have only somany guys that have enough money to retire,
And then you have the other group, like yourself, that's had such
a long tenure that you could makea decent living and do great in terms
of branding yourself, you know,and you know, and but I didn't
win two Stanley Cups, you know, I didn't. I didn't have the

(17:27):
accolades like like you did in certainother players. So anyways, the book,
going back to the book, Ijust started writing, and I've been
writing for almost twenty years. Andthen two years ago, three almost three
years ago, I sold my company. I was a co founder and a

(17:48):
company that we sold, and Ihad the means to. I always wanted
to write a book, but Iwanted to do it the right way,
and I had the means to doit the right way. And I said,
that's it. And not only that, Luds, it was time.
I'm like, I need to startreaching other people. I've seen so many
NHL players I went through hardships arestill going through hardships. I got a

(18:08):
call last night from a gentleman justin terms of a retired hockey player that
called me and said, hey,man, I made it through July fourth,
and I just made it through thelong weekend. You know. It's
just certain things that guys struggle with. Anyways, I wanted to give back,
and I thought, I'm going todo this. It's not about you
know, obviously I'll monetize a book, but it's not so much about that.

(18:29):
Then I started to realize hockey wasreally just a vessel for me.
There's so many other people outside ofthe sport that struggle with anxiety and mental
issues. Corey Harsh wrote a bookand things like that. So I just
said, that's it. I'm doingit, Luds. And that's when I
had But in order to do it, I had to have two feet in,
you know. I had to beI had to be the person I

(18:49):
the person that wrote the person thatI'm writing about in the book. I
had to be I had to liveit, and it's it's been a great
journey. It's you know, it'sjust beginning for me. The launch is
on the twentieth, but I justthink that, you know, we'll go
deeper into this, but I justthink it had finally come to a head
for me. It's like I toldmy wife, I'm doing it, and
she's like, well, if youtruly want to do it, because when

(19:10):
you read my book, there's alot of stories in there that you know,
somewhat have collateral damage or your wife'sreading it, or people are like
you read it and like, man, that's so imagine my wife reading it
going through the heartship. She doesn'twant to revisit things like that. But
in order to do that, inorder to in order to heal, first
of all for me, but inorder to help others, I just laid

(19:32):
it down the line. Here's here'syou know, and with no blame on
anybody or obviously not blaming the sport, but here's my life. You know,
well, it sounds like it wasvery therapeutic for yourself. It was.
It's healing. I mean, allof it's healing and I'm you know,
I'm even me monetizing it now,just done LinkedIn and videos and things

(19:52):
like that. And it's kind oflike probably when you do things when you
know, I don't do as manyevents as you do in Dallas with the
alumni, but when you hear thestories from people that come back to you
and they're like, oh my gosh. You know, I've had I've had
people come back that read the book, never played the sport of hockey,
don't even understand it. And aftereach chapter, because you know you've read
it, take your shot, Ichallenge them, and you know, and

(20:17):
they're just blown away. There's like, oh my gosh, dude, cannot
believe how similar we are. Youknow. Really, the avatar, the
person I'm going after with my bookis, you know, is a male
audience. You know, between theages of i'd say forty and sixty five.
That's kind of the that's kind ofthe window of the gentleman that I
think that I be moved that.I'm not saying that, you know,

(20:38):
there's a specific gender for it,but I do believe that that's who I've
been. The readers who are goingto gravitate towards this book and recognize things
within the book that they've either wentthrough or going through or going to go
through. That would be the group. Well, the first they're One of
the first things you mentioned was yourdad, And I know what my dad

(21:00):
was and in my life, especiallygrowing up as a young kid and busting
your balls and the morning, getout of bed, get to pro you
know, go skate before school,and you know, do things the right
way. Talk a little bit aboutyour dad. I'm sure he probably.
My guess is he played a prettybig role in in your you know,
your path, he did. Imean, my dad was my best buddy.

(21:22):
I lost him in twenty fifteen.You know, he's one part of
the reason I wrote the book aswell. You know, my dad was
just a big dude and six footfour, you know, two fifty,
you know, a huge guy.But he had a huge heart. He
was you know, my dad neversaid a negative word to me. I
mean, he was always he wasyour prototypical salesman. When when I'd have

(21:44):
a game, he'd say, howdid you play? And he'd take out
his pen and write down a coupleof plays and things like that. My
dad really, you know, hey, you know, what do we do
now, Dad, I didn't getdrafted to junior. You know, let's
write letters, okay. You knowthere was no internet then, so we'd
sit down and handwritten letters and heshowed me and then we mailed them out.
And then when Peterborough Pete said,you know, well we'll take you

(22:06):
to camp, I said, whatdo we do? He goes, well,
you handwrite letters to all those otherteams and thank them. And that
was a long summer going back tothat mailbox and getting so many letters saying
thanks but no thanks. But thatwas my dad. You know, my
dad was a humble guy, successfulbusinessman, but he went through his own
issue. He had his own issuesas a kid. You know, he
had a lot of growing up todo as well. You know, most

(22:27):
of my lessons when I was youngwas learned at the race truck. He
was a huge handicapper, amazing withthoroughbreads and things like that. You know,
It's like he'd say things like,you know, it's it's you know,
it's it's not the size of thehorse, it's the size of the
fight and the horse or how manyall these different things in relays. And
he was a good pool player aswell. And I used to go watch
him play snooker, and he says, it's not what you make, it's

(22:48):
what you leave. There's so manylife lessons which were kind of neat that
he taught me, but everybody loveshis name was big Jack. Everybody loved
Big Jack. But it got toa point in my career where I started
to become a fighter, which Irealized that that was a role I had
to fill and that was a rolethat was going to allow me to live
out my dream. That he'd say, how come you're fighting so much?

(23:11):
And sometimes he'd get the games,I'd already be kicked out. And that's
one part of my journey that mydad couldn't help me in because he's never
been there. And that dad neverplayed hockey up to up to a young
age, he got polio, soone polio set into his leg, so
one leg was shorter than the other. So when I was old enough to
reach the handles of a lawnmower,I was pushing it or shoveling. That

(23:34):
was I did as a young youngboy. And growing up in Canada,
you know that being in Wisconsin,luds that was my job. But anyways,
so my dad was with me untilhe kind of couldn't be and right
to the end, right to theend, I wrote the book and he
was I was in the process offinishing it before I, you know,
in twenty fifteen, before I wenton to completely finish it in nineteen.

(23:59):
He said to me, and hegrabbed my hand. He goes, man,
I just it's a shame. It'sa shame, you know what you
kind of went through because he knewwhat my battles weren't things like that.
And I said to him, Ijust said to him, I said,
it's it's it's good because Dad's favoritesaying was this two shall pass, and
it's in the Bible, this twoshow pass. And I said to Dad,
I said, Dad, this twoshall pass. And then here we

(24:22):
are four years or twenty nineteen whenI get back in and that so I
know he'd be proud of this bookand and everything, because without my father,
I definitely couldn't have made it tothe NHL. Well, before you
get to NHL, you mentioned Peterborough, and Peterborough's a you know, big
junior program obviously especially in Canada.Obviously, right did you? Did you?

(24:48):
Was there even more pressure going toplay for a junior team where you
know you're not not everybody's knocking yourdoor down to come play for you.
And in that and in that samevein, did you go in the are
going I'm going to be a goalscorer. I'm gonna put some points up,
or I'm gonna have to fight myway to get into the or make
this roster. It's funny, youknow, I didn't know fighting was a
huge part of it at that point. I was just playing junior b I

(25:11):
was actually I was a defenseman atthe time. I was forward my whole
youth hockey. And then I wentto defense because because I had I went
through a gross spurt and I lostmy legs big time. So my dad's
like, why don't you play defense? And what's funny about this is I
did the same thing to Colton.He went through the same thing, except
he stayed as defense, thank goodness. And so I went to Peterborough as

(25:34):
a defenseman and then they put meback forward. No, I just think
I was going to be a bigbecause I was, you know, I
was in youth hockey. I wasscoring a lot of goals. So when
I went to Peterborough, I thought, well, no, I'm gonna still
chip in and my last year Idid I you know, I had some
decent points and did some and ifyou look at my staff, even in

(25:55):
the playoffs, I did good.But I mean I went to a team
with a whole bunch of NHL guys. I mean that that team that I
when you're talking about Luke Richardson,Jody Hall, Chris King, ty Domy,
Mike Reachie, Kay Wit or RonTugnant, I mean we were loaded
with NHL guys and offensive guys.We had a ton of them first rounders.

(26:15):
So really in Peterborough, doesn't matterhow good you are, you're always
put on the fourth line. Andthat's kind of when I really understood more
about fighting. I think the WesternHockey League is totally different than the Ontario
League, and in that respect,I think at fifteen, guys get thrown
into the lions and it's sink orswim. I don't the Ontario League isn't
wasn't like that as bad as theWestern Hockey League was. Well, you

(26:41):
mentioned some of those guys, andyou mentioned first rounders in your book.
I believe there's something about the NHLdraft. What happened at the draft.
Yeah, so I had Luke Richardson, Jody Hall, who else. So
we're a bunch of them that wereyou know, Luke went in the first
round of Toronto. There's a bunchof them that got draft. Thank Jody

(27:02):
Hall went the first round as well. I me and my dad got there
early. You know, Dad,this is back then, you know,
for your listeners, it's not likeit is now. Everybody you know,
you you went to like it wasin Detroit and if you had a chance,
everybody went to the draft. Youknow. So the night before he
went to the draft, and Dad, being a businessman, always wanting to
be there, we got to thedraft first, and you know this is

(27:22):
you know, everybody's getting set up. I think this is even before T
said, I'm not sure. Butanyways, we went to the draft and
all the first round or sit downlow and and I had an agent which
I couldn't find it the draft hewas he was probably hiding from me.
But anyway, we sat there andlike I said, we sat there for

(27:44):
about nine rounds. And I hadpreviously went to a here On hockey skating
school with a lot of the NewYork Rangers players, and Esposito was there.
He was a GM at the time, and he had I had caught
his eye, and he said,Yah, if you're ever looking for a
tryout or you're looking for a camp, then you know, we'd love love
to have you. So I wentto the draft and sat through nine rounds
of not hearing my name, andI just popped up out of my seat

(28:07):
and I heard a draft name,and my Dad's like, where are you
going? I said, I'll beback, and I marched down the stairs.
I wasn't in the lower section,we were in the higher section,
and I went to the to theyou know, so, so for your
listeners, the draft is set upon the ice surface. There's carpet down
there. They still kind of sometimeshave the boards around there for the most
part, but they have all thetables set up and all the you know,

(28:30):
all your scouts and everybody are ateach table. Of course, you
have the stage where all the firstrounders will get up there and put the
jersey on. So they announced yourname. So when they announced the name,
I just went down and I thinkmost people thought they was a draft
pick. I was wearing a suit. I'm a young kid. I walked
past the security guard. He givesme a big smile. But I walked
over to the Rangers table and Itapped Esposito on the shoulder and he just

(28:52):
kind of turned around and I go, misters, you know, I go,
it's Billy Howard. I was atyour here on hockey camp and with
the peats, and you had mentionedif I don't get drafted or if draft,
you know, you'd allowed me tocome try out, and he put
for sure he forgot who I was. I thought he didn't, but anyways,
he goes, you got you know, he kind of said, oh,
Billy above and made some short Allthe scouts at the table are looking

(29:14):
at me like, oh, isit to be draft? This kid?
Who is he? And anyways,as Bob said, yeah, I'll give
you the tryout. So I justwent said thanks, you just get get
get in touch with us in thenext few days and we'll coordinate, you
know, for the camp and flights. So I headed back up the stairs
and my dad goes, what thehell is that? All? I said,
I don't know. Let's go homeand tell mom I got We got
what we needed. So that wasthat was my draft. So I was

(29:38):
thrilled when they came up with this, you know, only so many people
allowed to go to the draft andbecause it really was. It's hard if
you're sitting there and you're and Isat through the Junior A draft as well,
so that was the second time Isat through through such an event.
Yeah, and when you talk aboutthe lower level, in the upper level,
the lower level is obviously where allthe cameras are typically nowadays, especially

(30:00):
those are the ones that going realearly, and when you talk about upstairs,
those are the ones usually aren't goingat all. That doesn't happen anymore.
So, Yeah, it's kind oflike being being in the back row
at church, you know, thethe other kind of sit back there and
let's hope somebody sees us. Soso okay, so explain here are talking
about your miners. So you getin there, you get to try out,

(30:21):
and you gotta play. I meanmost guys do. I mean,
I don't think there's many guys aroundthe league that don't play in the miners.
You gotta get your you gotta getyour feet wet. How was that
experience, you know, as youget into the miners and then moving into
your first NHL game, Yeah,well I ended up overall going to fifty.

(30:41):
I'm probably the only player in NHLalumni that went to fifteen training NHL
training camps in twelve years. Don'teven I don't really want to get into
that somewhere a couple of years.But anyways, yeah, I ended up
going to the East Coast. LikeI was trying out and uh, there
was a league called East Coast theyhad no clue about. And I was
trying out and fly and Donny Kalamazooor wherever it was, and Donny don

(31:03):
Wadell was there and he's like,well we got you know. So back
then, most of the guys inthe International League and the miners were owned
by NHL team, so they wereall under contract. I was a free
agent. So anyways, he said, there's a league called East Coast Hockey
League, And being from southern Ontario, I wasn't sure about Carolina. I
didn't even know about these states.I never went that for I never got

(31:25):
in an airplane to my first NHLtraining camp. It wasn't like it is
now. So anyways, I endup going to North Carolina in the East
Coast Hockey League, a league atthe time I had five teams, one
owner owned four of them. Weget there my dad's like, hey,
I just bought some property in somethere, Carolina. If you want to
ride, I'll drive you out thereand drop you off. It doesn't work

(31:47):
out, I'll pick you up.So him and his buddies jumped in the
van. They went and picked upa ton of beer and got their cards
out, and I drove the van. They played cards. They dropped me
off in Winston Sale, North Carolina, and it was pouring rain that night.
I'll never forget. It's kind oflike, see you later. I'll
pick you up if need be.Give me a shout and a banging on

(32:07):
the back door. And I gotin. As soon as I get into
the rink, it's like a smokefilled arena. And I'm coming from the
best junior organization in Ontario at thetime, in my opinion. Anyways,
Peterborough Pets and full on braul Welcometo the John goes Blair, and I'm
like, what the hell is this? This is a gong show. So
anyways, after the game, thecoach says, hey, go get your

(32:30):
equipment. The trainers here. Wegot to go to Knoxville. You stay
back here a few days and thenwhen we come back we'll get you on
the ice. I'm like sure.So the guy opens the back door and
he brings the outside and it's pouringrain, like I said, and there's
a tractor trailer. He slides openthe tractor trailer door, gives me a
garbage bag and gives me a flashlightand says, hey, grab your gear.
And I'm thinking, dude, Igotta tell you, that was a

(32:53):
moment in my life where I'm like, At the time, my dad owned
a heating and air conditioning company,and he always said, if you ever
on a job, this is alwaysgoing to be here for you, you
know. And I'm sitting in thattrailer going, oh my gosh, dude,
and I'm ready for a nervous Breakdow, I'm on our you kidding me?
Like the ship that the gloves andthe smell and the must and I'm

(33:13):
just like, well, it iswhat it is. I got. You
know, I've made it this far. You know, I'm not saying I
owed it to my dad, butWe've been through a lot. I'm certainly
not going to give up now.And a long story short, we went
on went on to win the championshipthat year, which is in the book
Carlson one of the Hansons shut thepower off in our in our rink and
Winston sam so we had to winat Game seven in Johnstown. And then

(33:37):
I went on to the American HockeyLeague, and as I went further,
you know, in the East CoastLeague, I put up some really big
numbers, but the talent wasn't quitethere. But I had a lot,
you know, in terms of goalscoring and things like that. I had
some good fights as well. Iwas just learning to kind of own in
that skill. But in that league. You know what people don't understand is,

(34:00):
yeah, I mean in the NHLyou have to win most of your
fights to stay. I would sayin those leagues you got a lot of
guys that didn't win a lot offights, but they like to fight a
lot, and they're older guys,and they're guys that are down. They're
still making a living doing that.So now the East Coast leagues really a
development. Back then it wasn't.So I kind of, you know,
thrown into the fire and did reallywell in that aspect of the game.

(34:21):
But more so I was putting upsome points. And then and then came
the NHL training camps with New Jerseyand then and then really essentially getting a
defined role in the East in theAmerican Hockey League and becoming a legit heavyweight
fighter. Well, so how whendid you have to come to terms with

(34:44):
it? And how did players gettagged en forcers? You know what I
mean, like in your mind,I think you crossed a bridge at times
and go this is who I am. I mean, for me, you
know, I was back in collegeand I had Rick Wilson, who former
coach in Dallas, and Gino Gasbrainy, and I was told fairly early

(35:05):
in my college career, probably gametwo, this is who you are.
This is who you're going to be. See that guy over there, You're
not going to be him, andwhich is a completely different role while we're
talking about right now than being anenforcer. So when when do you get
to that point where you go,this is what I've got to do and
this is what I'm going to do. And how does it come easy to

(35:28):
you? I mean, the hungerto stay in the league obviously is what
drives you. But how was thatmoment or when was that? I think
it was like my third training camp. I was trying to our second training
camp as end up end up.One of those years I did at one
camp, I went to another asin Rochester, and John Van Voxner called
me in the crowd to sit down, and he said I and I wasn't

(35:50):
fighting, you know, only ifI absolutely had to. But I wasn't.
Definitely wasn't getting engaged that guy shouldbecause of the fear. I was
terrified. And uh and uh.He said, look, kat, if
you you know, and at leasthe was honest with me, and uh,
and he said, look, ifyou want to play at this level,
the way you play and where you'reneeded, you know, don't forget

(36:12):
the NHL has got the best playersin the world. In the world,
you know, on the first threelines. You know, in the American
Hockey League. In the American HockeyLeague you run ten forwards, so you
have to be a decent player,you know. You can't afford to have
just a guy out there skating aroundthe camp end his knees. You have
to have guys that aren't liability.In the American League you can kind of
get away with. But in theNHL you had a fourth line that was

(36:37):
kind of designated for that you didn'thave to be as good a player.
But John Van Boxmere had said,hey, you have you know this is
this is what if you want tomake it. But I'll tell you lots
of story I don't I shared inthe book and I won't say his name,
But there was a player in Utica, New Jersey's farm team at the
time. It was a big,big, strong defenseman, kind of six

(37:00):
foot four, wasn't you know,kind of a little little offensive but more
defensive. But he would fight alittle bit in the miners. And I
remember one day I got to therink early and and we used to listen
through the coach's room in the back, and I'm sure you've done that in
the past where you kind of canhear your coach. And we had a
coach Tommy McVie was old school coach. I love Tommy. And I heard

(37:23):
him and he said, I'll justsay the name of whatever David. And
I heard him say, David,how did you think you played? And
because David and he was there early, I've seen his equipment. So when
you get sent back to the NHLfrom the miners, you'll see the guy's
bags sitting there, you know,because he got sent back and he was
up there for ten ten games.We watched him back then, we didn't

(37:43):
have TSN. We watched him onESPN two at the time, and we
were cheering him on you want tosee your buddies playing the NHL and get
and get out of the American League. So I just remember and I would
and we you know, David,how do you think you played? And
I heard David say, you know, I did this and did that and
what else did you do? Andhe said I did this and I did
that and he goes, well didyou fight? And uh and he goes

(38:07):
well, and then it's like,why that fuck? Why didn't you fight?
You know? And he just rippedinto him and he was right.
Tommy was right because he's trying totell him, dude, if you would
have just stepped up, you wouldhave you know, you would have stayed,
you have, you have what youneed. You just need that.
They needed that element of the game. And that's when it really hit me.

(38:27):
I'm just say and that's what Itold my dad, because a couple
of days later, my dad cameup to watch and I had I don't
know, two or three boats anduh, and my hands were all swollen.
My mom My mom never watched.She would walk the foyer. She
couldn't stand when I thought. Butanyways, that's when I told my dad,
No, Dad, it's this iscotton dry, you know. And
it wasn't so much that I realized. I kind of I always knew it,

(38:50):
lads, I knew that's what Ithe way I played, I knew
I was going to eventually be facedwith this. But how was your dad
with that? How was your dadwhen you told him that? Oh he
did? It didn't sit well withhim because he knew I was a good
hockey player. He didn't understand it. Like I said, he never played
that level. You know, likeif that happens today, me and you
could you know your boys, obviouslyyou're graduated and moved on from pro hockey,

(39:10):
but you know, you had thatconversation, that hard conversation with him,
and I couldn't have it because mydad's never experienced it. So and
I didn't have any faith or anything. I didn't have nobody, nothing to
fall back on. So I wasjust a big dude that loved to run
guys over, can put the puckin the net. And nowadays I could
play all day long and answer thebell every once in a while, and

(39:34):
you know, the game's changed towhere I would love to play nowadays because
it's spontaneous. It just happens.It's not a pre premeditated but and that's
when I knew, And that's whenit started to you know, in terms
of in terms of my anxiety andthings like that. That's when it started.
And it just continued, you know. Okay, so you use the

(39:57):
word premeditated, so kind of talkabout coming into a game day and you
know, I'm assuming you're gonna playHartford, you're gonna play Chicago, you're
gonna play Boston, and you've gotthe list, and you know, we
all go through the lineups of otherteams and things like that. You going
through lineups is way different than thanMike mcdonnald going through lineups. Right,

(40:20):
So if moever did, I don'tthink you ever had to. But but
how is it coming into game day? Is it? Does it start the
night before? Does it start twodays before? Do you are you?
Because I talked to Nuts about thisChrist Island and Nucks slept like a baby.
But he's wired differently. I mean, we all know that Nux is
but but how how was it foryou leading up to game days. Uh,

(40:42):
you know, like night before,day before, or on the gate
day of the game. Yeah.No, that's good, And you made
a good point, you know,a purpose worth fighting for my story,
and that's one thing I'm clear topoint how it's not everybody went through what
I went through. And just likeyou know, and and Knucks didn't go
through it. He he I thinkhe had his own demons later on,
but it definitely wasn't anxiety from fightingbecause he was a tough guy and it

(41:06):
seems to me like he embraced therole. Well. I mean, we
all grew up differently, we wereall wired differently to your point. For
me, it depended like I mean, when I fought Twist, uh and
in Dallas when I was with theStars, and I did really well and
I and I took and I believeI beat him in that fight. His

(41:27):
first game back was against us,if you remember in Saint Louis, and
I remember McGinnis telling Irnt McGinnis orno, Knuey's buddy, not Al McGinnis.
Maybe it was anyways, telling him, hey, Twister hasn't slept,
he's ready and his first game isagainst us. For you know three months,
I'm not you know, I'm notsleeping. I know that game.

(41:50):
I circle those games. And thesame was in the minors. Was the
same when we played you know Rangers, Farm Team Dome and Rudy Poacher,
you name it. It was loaded. But a game day, so we
would fly in that you know,the night before, we'd all go for
dinner. You know, we'd havea couple of balls of wine. I
would just have some beers, somewine, just to kind of just get
my mind off. But every timeit would come up, who do they

(42:14):
got? Who they got? Andit'd always be brought up from guys that
weren't fighters. For some reason,they like to talk about it. The
fighters really didn't want to. Sowe'd talk about it at dinner and we'd
go back and at the time myroom in Dallas was was actually Mo.
So you know Mo would to yourpoint. You know, Mo had his
own challenges. You know, he'sgetting paid seven million bucks year to put

(42:35):
the biscuit in the basket. Ifhe's in a slump, he's got his
own issues at deal. He certainlydoesn't have time for my issues. And
so the game, you know,in the morning skate we would get to
the rink and I would have barelyslept. We'd get to the rink and
the visiting team would be out there. And now this is going not now,
this is going back when I playedand you played, and you'd see

(42:55):
all the tough guys. They hadthree or four heavyweights most teams. You
know, if we went the missionDetroit, you'd see Kosher, you'd see
Proby, you know, if wewent didn't matter what team he went to.
If it was Philly, there'd beBrownie, you know. And you're
the tough guy and everybody's on theglass and you're seeing what you know in

(43:15):
the NHL and in your morning skates, you know, you have your you
know, let's you have your redjersey, which is your number one line
out there, you'd have the greenjersey, which would be the second line.
You'd have the blue and then thegold line. And the gold line
would typically be the line that Iwould be on d or the fourth liners,
and that's the line that I wouldfocus on because those are the guys,

(43:37):
you know. And depending on thegame, and depending who the coach
was, if it's Saint Louis andMike Keenan's a coach, then that gold
line is going to be playing,you know, uh, set the temple.
Because back then, as you're aware, hockey, you know, yea
intimidation was played a major, majorrole export at that time. It was
huge in terms of marketing, interms of the gate and in just terms

(43:59):
of the play. So I wouldsee who the tough guys were, and
then it would start in my stomach. I would already I would head in
and grab my coffee and start withmy tombs. And then the coaches that
I you know, there was coachesthat would tell me in the morning,
skate, Hughie, you're in.Those are the coaches I would be thankful
for. But there are a lotof coaches that wouldn't tell me. So

(44:20):
I would have to go the wholeday anticipating on playing, because which was
hard if you're not wired that way. If I'm not Chris Nilan and I'm
Billy Hewart, it's a whole differentdeal. On my head. It's it's
the anxiety, you know, Igotta you know, I'm watching fight videos,
you know, and you're hearing fromthe other guys. Oh hughey,
this guy's stuff. I played inthe Western Hockey League, you know,

(44:42):
he throws heavy lefts and this andthat, and I would try and watch
as much video as possible. Butyou know, when you're sitting in the
room and you're there quiet, andI used to try and visualize, I
go to the bench when other guysare visualizing. You know, Lutty,
I'm sure you know you're visualizing.You played against the best players in the
world every shift. That was yourjob to shut him down. And most
visualizing putting the biscuit in the basket. I'm visualizing and my tying the left,

(45:07):
am I going right? And that'skind of how I would prepare for
for my thought for the game.And that was you know, I would
be sitting there, so I wouldwatch you and Carbo and Maddie and then
going for your PK talks. ThenI would watch the power play guys all
going for their separate chats with thecoaches. I didn't have that, fighters

(45:28):
didn't have that. We were justthere and and and I remember like Greg
Adams tapping me or Knewy Huey youokay, man. You know there were
certain guys and I know you didas well, that knew the pressure that
was on us guys as tough guys, and and that was my We had
a That's why I say in thebook we are our own fraternity. We

(45:49):
didn't. We weren't in those meetings. You know. My goal, really,
Luddy, was to hopefully make aname for myself where that I could
become a more of a player.And a lot of guys did that.
LC Cord, even Proby did that, you know, I think he made
it in Knucks. I think evenwent to the Alster And there's certain guys
that got to talking that cut youknow, that did really well. But

(46:09):
you have to have a coach andyou have to be in an organization that
believes you can do that. Ifnot, you get paid. Well.
Was it was it easier for you, Hue, if it speaking of the
day over, the night before,Was it easier for you to get some
rest if it was somebody that youhad fought in the past, whether it
was in the minors or two tothree weeks earlier, or it didn't really

(46:31):
matter, Did it's still way onyour mind, or if you had a
previous boat with them that you hada little bit more to grab onto going
into that that particular game. OhNo, that's a great question. You
know what things changed so much,and anybody can win a fight, and
at the NHL level. I mean, I remember when I had you know,

(46:54):
for instance, one year, Ifight for a year and I do
really good. The next year hegrabs me and he just flings me around.
I don't know what happened over thesummer. Maybe he was sauce in
it. I don't know, buteither way, so you don't know.
You know, anybody can land apunch. I do know this when you've
been hit really really hard by apunch, and I mean legit deja vu

(47:16):
like I have, You're you don'tcare how big, You're not anxious to
fight that guy again. I rememberwhen Dean Channel put me in the hospital
and I had plastic surgery on myeye. I wasn't anxious to fight him
again, you know. And hewasn't a super heavyweight. But I did
good against Twist. That didn't matter. I was still ship my pants because
I know his first punch set myhelmet in the stands. Like it's just

(47:38):
to that point where you know you'realways thinking the worst, you know,
when you're anticipating the anticipation in thebuild up. It's like public speaking is
always worse than when you when youactually perform will duty. So the fight
was thirty seconds, but it couldhave lasted three weeks. I remember,
Letty, when the NHL schedule comeout in the summer, I'd be at

(47:58):
my lake house fishing looking at it, circling those games. That's how much
it affected me. When I retiredfor two years, I woke up in
the middle of my nights in fightsand my wife's like, are you okay?
So it definitely had played a rolein my life. Oh what what
in your in your own mind?What establishes a win, a tie,

(48:22):
or a loss. How do yougo? I mean, do you have
to drop the guy in order forit to be a victory for you?
Or are there different levels that youcame out of there? And I'm sure
it has a lot to do withthe opponent. I mean, if you're
fighting Prober versus Sean Avery, it'sa little different. But I'm just saying,
do you do you have different waysyou you grade how you did in

(48:42):
that particular fight against that that player. Not really, I mean for me,
not really. I just think Ithought a certain style. I threw
both hands. Excuse me? So, I mean you always want to you
always want to win the fight,but sometimes if you can just you're want
to get certain players, that's perfectlyfine as well, because like I said,

(49:04):
anybody can win a fight. SoI mean the anticipation, the anticipation
was worse than the fight itself.So if I'm fighting Probe, I'll tell
you what was harder for me wasgoing into Chicago and fighting Probe, turning
the game around, winning the game. And then two nights later we're playing

(49:27):
the Rangers and I'm not in thelineup because I'm not really needed. They
don't have a tough guy. Thatwas hard to deal with. And that
was things that I didn't understand atthe time. I didn't because I thought
it was all about me at thetime. Looking back, and we'll get
into that, things have changed.Well, you know, the big thing
for the NHL over the past Idon't know ten years or so, as

(49:50):
far as trying to get that partof the game, that part out was
what they tagged them stage fights andso and you guys know, I mean,
if if you're playing against Twister,you're playing Saint Louis, and I
mean you pretty much know what's goingon. Is there is there the moment
in the game where you go nowor was it in warm up or did

(50:10):
you wait for a particular point inthe game where where your club is dead
and it needs some life Regardless,I mean, did you if your team
was playing well and and you've gotthe lead, for instance, your your
club is playing well and Twist invitesyou, do you walk away from it

(50:34):
at the time because today not again, not that that happens a lot.
It's like we have that with ourU eighteen guys. They don't understand the
momentum. They don't understand the changesin games. And there's times where you
you know, I'll just let themgo and because that's part of you know,
their development everything else. But there'sother times you got to say,
hey, dude, like we're upthree to one, we don't need them

(50:55):
to gain any momentum out of possiblyyou you know, and again they don't
fight that much either. But butyou know what I'm talking about, So
did that ever come into play?I mean, really, fighters, fighters
really don't. It's a lose losefor fighters because if you're on the bench
and we're in St. Louis andwe get up two goals, we get
up one goal, we're stoked.I'm stoked. We get up two goals,

(51:20):
that's good. We get up threegoals. Now, now my ass
starts so tight. Now I'm thinking, okay, this things are gonna happen.
Now, something's gonna happen. Andsure shit, I go on the
ice and all I hear is,let's twist again, you know what I
mean. I hear the crowd,I hear I know he's coming, and
Tony's sinking the same thing. Ifwe get up two goals, we get

(51:42):
up three goals, or they getup two goals, they get up three
goals. That's my role. Sounless it's an absolute blowout, most tough
guys, most of us kind ofhad. You know, most of us
knew that we had to do it. First of all. We all wanted
to do it early and get itover us so we could play the game.
We didn't. Most guys are feelingthe same, the same stress.

(52:02):
That's why guys like, how doyou You guys are talking after if I
mean it's like good fight, couldfight, it's like it's over. It's
like, oh, you know,I survive without cracking my head open or
my nose or my cheek bone,my orbital boe. My jaw's not broken.
I've hit a lot of guys.I remember when I hit Jimmy No
once when when he and I've watchedhis cheek bone crush in in the minors,

(52:24):
and I just felt for him.You know, I know the pain
of either giving a punch or receivinga punch. And that's that's why I
don't think you know, we reallyYeah, if we win the game and
I turned the game around, awesome, But that's my job. That's why
I get paid to do. That'swhat I signed up for, right,
But that doesn't make it any easier. And it's nice being the hero all

(52:45):
at times, and the fans,it's one thing that was nice, and
I'm not gonna say I'd be crazyto say it. To get at least
enjoy some of that while you did, it was awesome to be the guy.
I mean, you know, churrollsand you know most tough guys are
fan favorite's tie and them. Butthat definitely doesn't alieve it a lot of
what we went through. And likeI said, in my life, when

(53:07):
we got up two or three goals, I knew it was going to happen.
Very rarely you know, you know, or if you're playing a road
game and you get out and yourcoach starts you, you know that you're
out there to lay some bodies outand it's going to happen. So that
was it. But the days ofthe premeditating fights are gone, and I'm
glad. I do believe. Istrongly believe there's a role for fighting in

(53:28):
the NHL. I just you haveto. It's such an intense sport and
things get heated up. If not, you're gonna have guys take guys heads
off with their sticks. Nothing.I can't stand more nowadays, in a
cross check to the face like theseguys are doing, I just can't believe
it's happening. So I do believethere's still a role, but not the
role that we played. I'm gladyou brought up Charles. That's my roommy

(53:50):
so. I have Charles forever,and we could, we could. I
could write a book Charles and Icould co write a book on the postgame
activities with him and I so andpregame. But I noticed that the year
in Dallas here we had Darian Hatcher, we had Shane Churla, Grant Marshall,

(54:12):
yourself, and at the end ofthe season you had played fifty some
games that year. I'm not sureif the other guys, but you had
one hundred and seventy six pims,so you led the way in penety minutes.
Is there is there anything there,especially with Charles? You know?
I mean Charles was more that guyHatchie Hatch. She could fight anybody,
and he didn't. I don't thinkHatch wanted to fight all the time.

(54:35):
It was just another tool in histoolbox. Did you Is there anything that
says I want to be that guyat the end of the season with when
it comes to penety minutes? Isthere anything there I want to be above?
Charles? Is your guy? Heplays He's not a heavyweight, right,
and that's why I give Charles.I love that guy, and he
gave him so much credit for theguys that he's taken on. Is there

(54:58):
anything like that that you know?I mean, like you know, madonnald
and uh, I don't know JoeNwandyke going at it somebody. You know,
one guy wants to have forty fivegoals, the other guy wants men
she has forty six. Is thereanything in there for yourself? Not I
wasn't one of those guys. Therewere guys, but the problem with that
is it's you know, if youget guys. I mean, to me,
it wasn't about that. I mean, first of all, I didn't

(55:20):
love the role, so I didn'treally I didn't want to, you know.
I mean in the American League,I think I led the league three
hundred and fifty nine minutes when youor something like that. But yeah,
that's h and that was but Ithink we were used to count majors,
but to me, it was qualityversus quantity, like who who who was
he fighting? You know, LikeI remember there were certain guys that would
fight anybody. Well, I meanwhen I would fight, I was fighting

(55:44):
heavy weights. If you look,if you if you look at the folks
that I fought, and I hada really good high winning winning percentage,
it was heavyweights. And I thoughta few guys like Kiprios or certain guys
like that, but for the mostpart, So but I gotta can I
share I want to share with youraudiences story about Churla and how I and
you want to talk about that now? About my story was Shane? Okay,

(56:06):
So you guys came into Ottawa andCharles. I think he was Minnesota
or maybe yeah, Dallas. Ithink it was actually your first year,
and Darcy walked walk, Look isit Darcy the yeah Waukie was a goalie
And Charles went to Walk and said, hey, you know who's this heward
kid? And Walk looks like becausewalk alok? See me fighting the miners.

(56:29):
When I used to just throw rightsbefore I screwed up my right hand,
he didn't know I had switched toleft. So anyways, he told
Charles, and Charles tells the storythe best. I seen him at an
event in Chicago not too long ago, and he still brings up the story.
So he tells Charles, Oh,he's all right. If you type
is right, it's no problem.So we dropped the gloves and he grabs

(56:49):
my right, which was a bigmistake, and I closed his eye with
my left and he left. Heleft the ice. So when I got
signed with Dallas, Charles came upto me. Was he never listened to
a goalie. We had a goodlaugh over that one because matules me and
it played on the same line fora while. And you're right, Charles
was a tough guy. And youknow, I'll never forget. You know,

(57:12):
one thing that saddened me in theNHL and why there should be fighting,
in my opinion, is when Ithink it was Burret or somebody had
just leveled him like shit like that. That's the other thing with tough guys.
Nobody a guy, a non fightercould get away with certain things like
that. And it was just itwas a joke to me. But yeah,
I didn't. I wasn't a bigstats guy. I mean, I

(57:34):
think the one year I had sixgoals, six assists and we didn't play
a lot. You know, ifyou're not in the power player and you're
not playing a lot, it's hard, it's hard to put points up.
But I wasn't. I definitely wasn'tthat guy that looked to get three four
hundred minutes. There are those guys. I just wasn't one of them.
Yeah, And like I said,they you know, they'd get to them
numbers a lot of times by gettingthe extra ten and you know, so

(57:58):
that's just not for me. Butlet's talk about ill. With all of
that comes injuries, Huie, AndI know you mentioned your one hand,
but can you can you take usdown the road of the injuries that you've
gone through and and maybe how that'skind of has affected you since you quit
planning. Sure, yeah, Imean during my during my career, I

(58:19):
have pins and screws and my wrists. I had major surgery on my left
eye, uh, shoulder surgery,Doctor Cooper did that, MCLs but lower
back. But I had a lotof state hands or several hands surgery,
screws and pins in my hands.My hands deformed now my left hand.

(58:43):
But I would say that I'm gonnapause this LODs. Can you hear this
tinging leeds at your end? No? You can, he can he can
cut off, So I would let'sget you ready. So I would say
that more than that, I hadissues with my head more than anything.

(59:04):
I just think from the concussions Ireceived playing pro hockey, not just in
the NHL, but I played twelveyears overall. And I'll tell you a
story I had. We had hadstarted a company and we sold the company
in twenty nineteen, and we wereout celebrating and I had my family with
me, my kids, and Ihad started getting a lot of anxiety and

(59:29):
outs of depression and things. Andfor no reason, really, I was
doing really well financially stable. Ihad a great job, you know,
and things like that. And onetime we went out for dinner and I
ended up having a bit of anervous breakdown for no reason at all.
I just started crying and sobbing,and my wife's like, what is going

(59:50):
on? So I left? Ileft. The kids were worried, obviously,
and they're older at the time.So I left the restaurant and gathered
myself and went back in and she'slike, what is that. I'm like,
I have no idea, absolutely noidea. I've never experienced that.
And then progressively got worse and worseand worse, and and we had is

(01:00:13):
there something that was going through yourmind that that that you initially started crying?
I mean or there was just nothing, just nothing. It was like
it was it was unbelievable. Itjust hit me. It was just like
a it's just like a wave ofsadness, just my emotions almost like it
just got my emotions, just likeif you lost your your best friend or
you something you know just absolutely crushyou and you just can't uncontrollable. I've

(01:00:37):
never felt such a thing. It'skind of like when you laugh in your
in your you know, enthusiast,but it's but it's way worse. And
that's what had happened to me.So it got worse and worse. And
in our NHL settlement we had theNHL when we settled the concussion lawsuit,

(01:00:59):
really more than anything, I signedup for that, and you know,
all I the only reason I everdid obviously, it wasn't for financial for
financial reasons at all. It wasjust so if I leave the house one
day to go get some groceries andI don't make it back, hopefully there's
some you know, there's something financiallyin place for my family for what I

(01:01:21):
went through. And the other reasonI did it is so I could get
some you know, some help,you know. And sure enough I went
through. I went through the programand scene a neurologists and was diagnosed with
you know, parts of PTSD andthings like that which I knew I had

(01:01:42):
and because I remember in so manyfights, you know, when you get
that dejav I don't know, ifyou've ever had at ludge, maybe with
a big hit or you took ashot, or even in a fight you're
in the middle of a fight,everything pauses. You feel like you've been
there and then you just start throwingagain and just pause and and that's kind
of deja of who that that that? And like I said, for the
first few years after retirement, Iwoke up with nightmares of fighting and things,

(01:02:07):
so that it's embedded in you.And one thing about PTSD is,
you know, people don't know thisas most soldiers that get PTSD never never
seen action. It was the anxietyof being in the action that led to
that, and that has a lotto do with the fighting as well.
I think the anxiety, the anxietyof the fight is just as detrimental as

(01:02:28):
the blow to the head in termsof concussions and things like that and how
it works in your mind. Andthat's what I believe I was I was
going through so anyways, and Ithink I believe a lot of x NHL
players that have went through this arenot no longer with us. I truly
believe this is probably what was abig part that played a big role in

(01:02:51):
them not being with us and orstruggling with what I struggled with, because
really it's hard if you don't goif you haven't gone through it, you
know, then you and understand it. And anyways, uh, they put
me on a on a mad andhe said, you know, there's a
few things you have. You know, do you drink? I said,
yeah, I drink. He goes, well, alcohol is a depressant.

(01:03:12):
He said, you you have tomake that choice. But I will tell
you this, things aren't going toget better. So that was one that
was just one of the things.And I had wanted to quit drinking for
a long time. Anyways, drinkingreally how work when it when it needed
to, when I needed to duringthe career. During my career, that
was the only thing I could fallback on before I had any faith and
things like that. So I thinkit worked until it didn't work. So

(01:03:36):
that was one of the good thingsthat came from it. But more than
that, it leveled me up.I was I wasn't going through the peaks
and valleys and the ups and downs. And then I really had to figure
things out for myself. And that'swhen I really got into holistic measures.
I really got into other means ofof healing for me and in my mind
and things like that. That's whenI got into cold tubs. I bought

(01:03:59):
a cold tub. I started gettingback into getting out the things that the
things that made. When I wasa kid, I used to hang out
in the woods all the time,in the wilderness. I just loved it,
loved it. I used to goout there at my bb gun like
a lot of kids do, butI would. I would go for hours,
and I don't know, there's justsomething about it that's healing for me.
And I started doing that during COVIDand I just started going back.

(01:04:20):
We have the high Sierra mountains hereand things like that, and I just
found it so healing. And likeI said, I got into cold pledging
and breathing and things like that.So I mean, it's a long winded
answer, but that's really. That'sreally and I believe, and it's part
of the reason we're talking today isbecause once I started healing myself mentally and

(01:04:42):
physically and getting in good shape andthings like that, I wanted to share
it. I wanted to reach others, other hockey players, you know,
in terms of you know, likethis hat I'm wearing. Twenty two soldiers
a day take their lives from PTSD. It's crazy with the mental with the
anxiety and the depression and a lotof it. As guys that are that
have you know that are no longerserving and they get into the real world

(01:05:04):
and they go through what I'm goingthrough is what I believe. So anyways,
Yeah, and the main thing isI have it under control and I'm
able to function run a company andyou know, starting another company and things
like that. But thanks to theNHL and the program, I was able
to seek refuge and get my lifeback in order. Yeah. I actually

(01:05:26):
do some stuff with twenty two killand so they're a great organization. I
know a bunch of those guys havebeen some of their benefits and things like
that. So well, you know, I did a podcast with Stephen Johns
and I'm not sure if you're familiarwith Stephen defenseman with Dallas Stars and ran
into concussion problems. I just Ihad always felt like Stephen could be just

(01:05:48):
a big number two defenseman. Hecould lead the Stars and hits at the
end of the euro shots. Andyou know, I'm not going to say
he was this offensive guy, buthe was that guy. I mean,
he was a glue guy and andand so a lot of the things that
you've just talked about is everything thathe talked about, you know, with

(01:06:09):
the program and the NHL stuff andCTE and all that, and and Stephen's
doing a lot better. He actuallysomething similar to you is he went out
and roller blooded across country and tobring awareness to mental health. And he
had one of the guys in DallasStars kind of videotaped the whole thing and
that was his way of, youknow, getting himself back and all that

(01:06:31):
kind of stuff. So like,can you can you talk about a couple
of the guys like who if youhad a list, and whether that's good
or bad? Do you have atop two or three guys at the time
when when when you you know,with your with your fights, some whether
they're heavyweights or guys that you youdidn't sleep as well, you know,

(01:06:54):
or you slept worse, maybe becausehe said he didn't sleep anyways, But
were the other guys that kept youawake more than others? For sure?
I mean at the time Kosher waswith the Rangers. When I first broke
into the league, it was BrownieMcSorley, proby Twist. There were a
lot of guys I didn't sleep.Most most guys I didn't sleep because I

(01:07:15):
wasn't I wasn't an oversized guy.You know, I'm six foot one fighting
you know, and as a asa as as the years went on,
the guys got bigger, you knowthat. I mean the guy that took
my role in Edmonton was George theRock. You know, he's he's he's
a giant of a man, butmountain, Yeah, mountain of a man.
And so there were certain guys.There were certain guys that you know

(01:07:38):
that you knew that if you gothit by twisters punching. You know,
you're watching ESPN the night before andyou're hearing how he you know, absolutely
broke someone's jar or crushed somebody,and you know he's coming into Dallas Thursday,
and that's your job, you know. So really, for the most
part, you know, even tyty Deep, you know, we were
in we were in Toronto playing theLeaves. My parents are in Tie Sweet,

(01:08:01):
you know, because we played juniortogether. Tie runs around Ky Ranchurl
or somebody, and I'm like,what are you doing, dude, Like
I'm the guy. Here we goand he actually beat me in that fight.
He spun me pretty good. Butanybody can win a fight, you
know, and like I can beatDave Brown. Two nights later, Brown
can crush DOMI and then Doomie beatsme. So it doesn't matter in the

(01:08:23):
NHL because you know, you're you'refighting on too thin blades of steel,
and you know you just misstep oryou grab and you're grabbing a loose jersey
or you know, back in thosedays, guys, you know, guys
had velker on their sleeves or thejerseys until until Rob Ray continued to pull
out of his jerseys and they camewith tie downs. You know that.

(01:08:43):
You know, guys were crafty.I remember when I went to Quebec to
the nordeeks, they gave me twistersjersey fifteen. It was a goalie cut
jersey with velcra down the sleeve.It's like, oh, okay, good
for him, I mean, nowonder, but no, I mean for
me. Lud's honestly, really mostof the guys at that level were super
heavyweights. Like it was, theywere tough customers here. I want to

(01:09:06):
go back to your buddy Mo.You guys were roomies. Who actually was
cheaper? Well, I mean everybodythinks it was me, but I know
one thing I was. I wasthe guy that always had to pay the
bills because more didn't want to dealwith the fans and all the bullshit at
the front of at the lobby.So, well, did he pay you

(01:09:27):
back? What do you think?Well, okay, since we're going down
that road, I do recall,and it took us a while to figure
it out if we went out fordinners, and which we did. I
mean, we had the luxury ofnot flying home after games and flying to
the next city. We got tospend a lot of time on the road,
which I thought always kept teams closuretogether and blah blah blah. You

(01:09:51):
always seem to pick up the tab. And just so people know, you
get meal money, and you know, whether it's thirty bucks a day,
fifty bucks a day, whatever itmay be, you get an envelope when
you get onto the plane, andso you I mean, you go on
a good long road trip, youget three four hundred dollars, possibly in
cash and American money. And sowe all go out to dinner, and

(01:10:12):
we always at the end of theyou get the bill and everybody, you
know, it's a few hundred dollars. Everybody chips in their amount and regardless
of what you had. I neverthought that was fair either, but anyway,
that's just the way it works.You would always seem to pay for
dinner in Canada, so you're not. You weren't as dumb because people understand
like they're there and you could goahead and explain it. Now. It

(01:10:33):
took me a long time to figureit out. But you put it on
your card in Canada, it's inCanadian dollars. You get everybody to chip
in American dollars because that's all weever had in Canada. So you were
making money on the deal, weren'tyou, bloody. I'm a businessman's where
it all started. We'll wait asecond. According hey, ever, since

(01:10:54):
you're retired, according to some ofyour business you weren't a great businessman all
the time. We're gonna you know, you know what the saying is,
if you're gonna fall, fall onyour back, because if you can look
up, you can get up,and that's what you gotta do. I
don't call I don't call them failures. I just call them experiments. But
yeah, I mean that that's uhwe that was, and not only that,

(01:11:15):
putting other people's dinners on art tabsand paying for them like it was
crazy. Though when you think aboutit back then, you know I wouldn't
I wouldn't trade anything. Obviously Iwould love to be a you know,
to make the money they're making,but to have the technology and to not
be able to stay in cities likewe did. I mean, I would
not have given that up for anything. I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine

(01:11:36):
that now. I think we playedat a special time in relation to the
NHL and how you know, interms of technology and things like that,
like nowatimes like I remember you tellingme, I think it was you or
Marty telling me, like Shorty,one of you guys were telling me.
You know, nowadays you're coaching ateam and they land and they're all looking

(01:11:58):
for whole foods to get some bigfood, you know, like we would
look for the bar. They're lookingto go to a health food store and
things like that, which is agood thing. By the way. Oh
well, I can tell you thatreal shortly we were we got off a
plane and we were in Anaheim.I think it wasn't you know. I
was doing TV or whatever it waswith Razor and I got off the plane
and as we were checking in,they're about four or five guys standing around

(01:12:19):
the concierge a little standing talking tothe guy and I went upstairs and changed
and got my jeans on and cameback down and I was going to go
have a beer and a couple ofplaces I know, and we're going to
go there and I just want andthey're still standing there, and it's just
I walked up and say, hey, you guys, you guys looking for
a place to go? What areyou looking for? You you're looking for
this, you're looking for that?You know, I can tell you where

(01:12:40):
you want to go. And theyall kind of looked at me, and
I said, what are you guyslooking for? I said, well,
we're looking for the closest whole Foods. So I was like, oh,
well, so I knew at thatmoment the game had kind of changed,
you know, And so that,I mean, I knew it had.
And they all take care of themselvesso well, and that's why they play
so well and all that, youknow, all that kind of stuff.
So again, the book is calleda purpose worth fighting for? And who

(01:13:03):
you've done a hell of a jobwith this book. Is there anything let's
put it this way up, anythingelse you want to leave us with about
the book? And can you tellus the details on it when it's coming
out, so everybody knows what thewhat the program is here, so you
know the name I came up waswas a purpose worth fighting for. I
think everybody you know, I thinkthe two biggest days in your life really

(01:13:24):
are the day you were born inthe day you realize why you were born.
And it took me a long timeto figure that out, I think,
you know, I always thought mypurpose in life was to play in
the NHL. It was always mydream, you know, when they asked
you as a kid in school,what do you want to do? It
was always I want to play inthe NHL, you know. And I
thought that was my purpose in life. And then I went through my journey

(01:13:49):
and I made it, and Iretired, and I realized that I wasn't
fulfilled at all, and actually itwas a nightmare for me. There were
lots of good times, don't getme wrong, but the depth of the
of the of what I went throughin terms of anxiety definitely didn't make up

(01:14:09):
for that. So I felt Ihad been robbed, My purpose had been
robbed. And then later on inlife, when I really hit rock bottom,
and you read about it in thebook, when I was I was
at a at a point in mylife where I was going to take my
life that I had a couple let'ssay, aha moments, and one of

(01:14:32):
which is when my dad called meand said, hey, this two shall
pass. And another one was Ihad a couple of spiritual you know what
I would consider a spiritual awakening.And that changed my course of my life
and changed my life, and Ibecame a believer. You know, I
never really picked up even though BobGainey and with Peterborough, Bob Gadey and

(01:14:58):
Roger Nielsen had gave I saw LittlePete's Bibles. And the night I went
through this, I went through thistransformation. I was I actually found my
Petz's Bible. Believe it or not. Anyways, long story short was I
became I realized that I'm here fora bigger purpose. And my purpose wasn't
just a plane NHL, and mypurpose was to utilize my gifts and what

(01:15:19):
God put me through in the NHLto help others. And and I look
back now and we played with believerslike Bobby Basson and Boss and there's a
lot of guys that I never reallyunderstood. And because I always thought,
oh, you know, you know, you gotta there's something different about them.
You always knew there was something different, but you didn't know what it
was, and they were great guys. I have to look back now and

(01:15:42):
go, man, had I beena believer, had I had faith,
I would understood that there was abigger purpose for this role, I probably
would have been a tougher guy becauseI would have been fighting for more than
just myself. I would have beenlike, no, there's a purpose for
this. Because I had nothing tofall back on. I just there's nobody
that said when you're a tough guy, you don't go to Craig Ludwig and
let's say, dude, I'm terrifiedtonight, man, I really you know,

(01:16:03):
and if I do, you're goingto say, well, that's your
role. You know, It's justthe way it was. But had I
been able to say, hey,God, I don't know why I'm here
and I don't know why I'm goingthrough this, but I know you got
my back, and I'll tell youwhy. I know it works because in
business and the success I've had,it's all because of that. There's not
a business I've gotten into that Ihave any experience in, and I've been

(01:16:26):
successful in the last ten years ofmy life at least, and it's just
through faith. So a Purpose WorthFighting For is just for others to understand
that everybody has a purpose. Andyou know, there's certain there's certain folks
that really understand it at a youngerage or or you know, or live
it. You know, are livingit, but there's a lot of a
lot of us that aren't going whatam I here for? What am I

(01:16:48):
here for? And most of usis because we're looking within instead of how
can we help others? And onceyou start turning that turning that dial towards
others and it kind of opens upa little bit. So that's why I
wrote the book of Purpose Worth FightingFor. It's for those folks that are
still looking for purpose and meaning inlife or dealing with mental illness. That's
why I get into that in thebook. My launch is September twentieth,

(01:17:12):
is when I'm going to launch it. We're actually doing a special on if
you go to ww dot Billyhewer dotcom. If you go to the website,
you can fill out a form andon the launch date, Lutty I'll
have you shoot out an email aswell. At the time we're doing I
said Hey, let's just do theebook for free or for ninety nine cents.
We had to charge these said,so ninety nine cents on Amazon,

(01:17:32):
and the paperbacks there as well.We don't have the hardcover of you a
few weeks, but I encourage youto go there and and or share,
share, share this podcast. Thisis an amazing podcast. You know,
when you think of hockey and andand lutty. I want to talk about
you just briefly, because I knowit's you're it's always about others with you.
You know, you're always interviewing us. But I think you know,

(01:17:56):
two Stanley Cups, over a thousandgames play playing against the best absolute best
players in the world. I mean, folks, you have to you know,
and your fans have to understand whatthat means in terms of hockey.
But in terms of legacy. Youknow, when I look back, and
I think when you look back,you know that Stanley Cup or you know
it goes into the Hall of Fame. I think your stats, you know,

(01:18:19):
you're going to go down in historyand University of North Dakota and all
that. But I think what doesn'tget measured is the charities. And like
you said, the veterans and thepeople that you touch that you don't even
know, that lives that you change, or your grandkids and your boys.
You know, there's certain things,and to me, a purpose worth fighting

(01:18:41):
for is about that legacy. Ithink the accolades and winning the Stanley Cup
or even being in the Hall ofFame is awesome. And that's why I
think tough guys have a certain we'renever going to get there, but where
we do make a difference is islife after hockey. And I think in
terms of the Dallas Stars alumni andwhat you've done, you can't measure that,
and that to me is everything.And that's that's the legacy I want

(01:19:06):
to leave. You know, Yeah, I have a book. My book
really is my business card. It'slike, you know, I get so
asked so many times, you know, what do you do or who is
your talk? Here? By thebook? But really the book is just
a vessel for folks to understand why. I truly believe my purpose was so
long winded, but that that's reallywhy I wrote the book.

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Billy Huard – Former NHL Athlete & Author

Episode Transcript

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Billy Huard – Former NHL Athlete & Author