The Babcock Saga Continues

Buckle up, because this week, Luds and Rhads are diving headfirst into the whirlwind of headlines, including the recent buzz surrounding Mike Babcock and some less-than-flattering accusations.

But wait, there's more! Our dynamic duo isn't holding back as they bring in past guests who've got some intriguing opinions of their own on the matter. Expect some jaw-dropping revelations and thought-provoking discussions you won't want to miss!

And that's not all, folks! Luds and Rhads are serving up a sizzling hot take on Deion Sanders, just in time for Colorado's showdown with Oregon and USC. Get ready for some in-depth insights and fiery predictions that will keep you on the edge of your seat!

Join the conversation and stay ahead of the game with the most entertaining sports podcast around. Tune in now!





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A special thanks to our sponsor Herman Marshall Whiskey. Built from the grain up. Just like good whiskey should be.
www.hmwhiskey.com

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Thank you to Herman Marshall Whiskey forsponsoring another episode of SuDS with Luds.
Herman Marshall produces a small batch,handcrafted and award winning whiskey, patiently aged
in new white oak barrels. Whetherit's their Texas Bourbon Texas Rye Texas Single
Malt, or they're blended Bourbon whiskey, all are built from the grain up,
just like good whiskey should be.Make sure you ask for it by

(00:23):
name. Thank you again, HermanMarshall Whiskey. Welcome to another show here.
Formerly known as SuDS with Luds nolonger, it is now SuDS with

(00:46):
Rads, John Radikin and Luds Welcomeback. Rad's good to see you two
weeks in a row. Yeah,I'm glad to be back. And what
the heck I mean? You knowhockey seasons underwell, let's crack a cold
one for that. Oh you switchthere, I got I got your brand
this week. I know well man, our our our crew. I've been

(01:06):
pumping the tires here for my Millerlight, which you have in your hand
now, for a long time,and they're getting nowhere with Miller Light,
so I figured i'll I'll hit acorona today you can go with the miller.
What'd you have last week? Ihad, but I saw the Green
Boy, Yeah I had. Ohno, no, no, it was
Canadian. I did a Canadian beerfor you. Uh oh that's why did

(01:27):
Moosehead? It was Moosehead. Ohyeah, there you go. Well that's
pretty appropriate? Is that kind ofme on the bottom say yeah? Yeah,
So anybody, anybody that's got hookedup with Moosehead, maybe maybe that's
the appropriate can Yeah. There,we need something that's got two animals on
it. Maybe we got something apicture of a couple of different animals on
it. Yeah. Yeah, anyway, we'll get a beer sponsor. I

(01:49):
promise you it's SuDS with bloods.It's hockey season. Then there you go,
Hey man, it is hockey season. We're getting ready. Any camp
opened up as we get going.Yeah, it's well for me, you
know, having been a little bitmore disassociated with hockey the last few years
with my role, it's so awesometo jump back into this thing when legitimately,

(02:13):
you know, the boor and Niland the players are talking about,
Hey, it's it's a Stanley Cup, you know, goal right, it's
a we want to make it tothe Stanley Cup finals. I mean,
of course every team does, butthere's a legitimate shot at it. When
you look at what the Stars havedone three of the last five years losing
to the eventual Stanley Cup champion.Well, I think every team that is

(02:39):
not every team, but every teamfor the most part that has had success
in the finals and want a StanleyCup. It's a process and I'm sure
that's applies to most of the sportsteams. And I think when you're talking
about Dallas, the window has beenopen for two to three years. They've

(03:00):
got the goaltender, we know thatthey've got a couple of big time goal
scorers. My thing will always bewith the decor. I think that we
saw a couple of holes and notmajor holes, like small pot holes last
year against the team that ultimately wenton to win it. But you do

(03:23):
have to give credit to the teamthat won it in the Vegas because they
were and they're they're bad. Theygot the exact same team this year and
they are big, they are strong, and I think the reason, one
of the major reasons that they wonthe Cup was their decor, led by
the salary cap always comes in toplay, so you know, your your

(03:46):
hands are kind of tied depending andyou know, I think I believe that
they've been at the cap Lip.Pet Trantel, who was a former Saint
Louis Blue, won a Cup inSaint Louis, came in there and and
he is he's what makes that inmy opinion, he's what makes that thing
go. So of course, Ithink when it comes to Dallas, what
Dallas did in the offseason, Ithought they were going to add and again

(04:11):
meant, you know, for thelast few years. So Jim Nail goes
out and does what he can andgives the bullets to the coaches to you
know, and put him in theright chamber. I thought they would try
to find a defenseman, which isn'teasy. So I'm sure I'm sure they
you know, they scoured everything.But then when you talk about Vegas when
in the Cup last year, theydid not have what I think a lot

(04:34):
of people would consider a number onegoaltender, and so they were able to
do it with everything in front ofthe goaltender. Where our philosophy has always
been, you start from the goaltender, the defenseman, the forward. Do
you start from from your D zoneand build out and you build up through
the middle of the ice. Soin other words, when you get to
the forwards, you got centerman,you know, and they've got rupe hints.

(04:56):
Whyatt Johnson I think is going tocontinue to just grow. Tyler Say
and Raddick Foxa, I think hisrole is getting a little bit reduced.
But anyway, the addition that theymade this year was bringing in Matt Duchane.
Matt Duchane I believe was in choleraare sorry in Nashville this past year,
I believe, And so they gothim at a reduced rate. Uh,

(05:17):
skilled player. So my whole thingis are you trying to outscore what
you give up? Maybe because ofa defenseman or two on your back end.
So we'll see. But like Isaid, they're they're in great hands.
A matter of fact, Jim Nillwas the general manager of the year,
So who's the second guest what JimNill has done, he's only done

(05:39):
made the right moves, and hedid it, you know what, and
he did it on you know,I wouldn't say one foot in the grave
and went on a bananappeal, butyou know, he was coming to the
end of his his contract and Ibelieve they gave him a couple of years
just prior so, so it shouldbe exciting, should be exciting year with
The amazing thing is, you know, two years ago, the year before
the boor came in, as goodas this team was, the rub was

(06:02):
kind of basically that they can't scoreright, they didn't have enough offense.
And suddenly he turned that thing aroundlike that. Now as a demon,
does that change in philosophy, becausethat's what it is. Does that change
bother you for the long term sustainedsuccess or potential success for this team?

(06:26):
It doesn't bother me whatsoever, becausewhat Pete Dabor has done is he's gotten
he wants the defenseman to be involved. I think the coaches prior to I
mean, the game has changed overthe last few coaches. I mean maybe
the last one, Dave Tippett wasmore a little bit more old school,
but he also wanted his devestment toget involved. And I think every coach
after that, just like every otherteam you have. The teams are so

(06:47):
good and well structured through most areasof the ice that you have to add
another attacker. And I think whatPete does, and not to say that
Pete. I mean, bones knewthe same thing. When you've got a
guy back there like Merril Hayskinnen,you need to let that horse run free
and you know so, and theyhave and that's what they did. And
so, like I say, sometimesare you trying to say we're going to

(07:10):
try to outscore any deficiencies we have. My only problem with Dallas last year
was how they played in their ownzone and there were some glaring I don't
want to say miscoverage because I don'tobviously know exactly what their system is,
but it looked like it was aman on man system and there were times
when and I know that Ryan Sutergot nailed by whether it be the press

(07:31):
and some fans, and but RyanSuter has been around the league for a
long time. He's thirty eight,I think he is right now, thirty
eight, thirty nine, and hisminutes have been reduced. He's always been
one of the guys at the topof the NHL when it comes to minutes
played. But sometimes it looks likehe was the goat and plays and I
don't know, it's like he wouldtake himself and follow a guy around in

(07:54):
his own zone and it would openup other lanes and open up open areas
of the ice. So but thatcould be the system that they're planning.
They could be mad. I'm mad, and that's what we're supposed to do,
and somebody else is supposed to coverother guys. So my only criticism,
I think in the playoffs last yearwas just what happened in their defensive
zone at times. So I'm guaranteedthat they have they have scoured all of
that and they've gone through that overthe past two or three or four months,

(08:18):
whatever the timeframe will be. Andbut again I think that I expect
Dallas to be at the top oftheir division this year. Colorado, it
sounds like Landiskog, their captain isnot going to be back for the regular
season, if at all, Sothat's a big hole. I think Saint
Louis, who I'm a big fanof their general manager, Doug Armstrong.

(08:41):
There I don't want to say inthey're in a rebuild, they're a little
they're tweaking their lineup. They justhad to name a new captain. So
Braden Sen, I believe, isthere going to be their captain. They
were without a captain, so Ithink, you know, and then Arizona
is Arizona Minnesota. They've got somehandcuffs on only because of Suitor and Prez

(09:03):
their contracts. They're they're playing ata disadvantage there. They're they're fourteen million
under the salary Cup because the dollaramount that they had to pay those two
players. So so there there.I expect Dallas to be at the top.
But again for me, that's neverreally been a big thing, just
you know, get to the dance. Yeah. So, but but I

(09:24):
think it's going to be and Ithink you're going to see a couple of
new players in the line up hereand there throughout the season. Some young
prospects that they have. I thinkthey're going to get a chance. So
I believe it's still gonna it's reallygonna be an exciting team. Again.
Yeah, it's going to be areally deep team. It's amazing when you
think of the spine of it though. You've got one of the best goalies
in the league, arguably the best. You've got one of the best young
and maybe one of the best defensemenin the league in Hiskinon, and then

(09:46):
you've got all that talent and powerup front. It's a pretty good spine
of this organization. One of thethings I thought was really interesting in the
offseason two LUNs is that Hiskinon cameout and said, I'm I'm working on
my shot, right. I mean, like you're you don't need to work
on anything. And yet that's whatthe great ones do. We remember,

(10:07):
you know, we're all to rememberthe days when Larry Bird would leave for
a season and he'd come back andall of a sudden he could shoot the
three, and you're like, whatthe hell Larry Bird shooting threes? He
didn't shoot three? Right? Helearned it in the offseason. This sounds
like this is what Mirro is doing. It also seems like it is a
nod too. This is great becausethe Boar wants me more involved offensively,

(10:28):
so by god, I'm going towork on my shot. A On top
of that, he's come out andsaid he wants the Nora. He wants
to be recognized as the best defensemanin the league. How often do you
hear and I don't. I don'tknow if we call Merrill a young player,
but he still is. He is. But you know, he's got

(10:48):
he's got some he's got games underhis belt now and and to be able
to come out and Merrill is,in my opinion, not that kind of
He is not a brass guy.He's not a bragger, right. I
think that to me, what itshows is when you make that statement that
you want to be recognized to bethe best defenseman in the league, there's
a confidence there. And I thinkhe's a soft spoken player. He knows

(11:11):
what his role is. He knowsthat this team counts on him, and
I think he's a big reason thatone of the reasons that they didn't bring
John Klingberg back because they saw whatMirroll can do. Klinger probably wanted,
you know, a big pay raisethat that wasn't going to work. So
they're like, well, listen,you want an extra four million. We

(11:33):
got a kid back here that webelieve is going to be able to step
into your into your shoes, andhe has and he is. He is.
There's no doubt he's a top defensemanright now, could be a top
three. And then I think whathelps that when you're when you want that
acknowledgement. I wish there was twodifferent awards. I wish there was an
award for the defensive defenseman and theNorth. It used to go to now

(11:58):
I don't want to say more ofa defensive defenseman, but I mean Chris
Chelios, yeah one, I don'tknow three, three of them. But
Shelley didn't have one hundred points ayear, but he was just he was
a good defenseman. He was hardto play against, he was a leader,
He did the things offensively, buthe was more of a rounded one.
I think he can go back andyou can look at a lot of
those defenseman. But but Eric Carlson, who needs an invitation at times to

(12:18):
get down to his own end ofthe rink, had one hundred and some
points last year and won the NARSas best defenseman in the NHL. And
now now now he's gonna go toPittsburgh and you know he's going to help
the big three there in Pittsburgh andsee what they can do. But but
Merrol, I think I think Mirrol'strying to be a better all around defenseman.
And you know, again like aSergey Zuba Zuba, Jubie never got

(12:41):
enough credit for what he did inhis own end, but he was just
magical when he had the puck onhis stick. Just asked Madonnell and letton
In and Hull. Yeah, no, doubt about it. And so it's
Miro in a way, this changeand this uh, this approach that he's
taken in the offseason, it's himsort of you know, testing the win.
Okay, So if I'm going towin the Norris in this day and
age, I might need to bea hundred point guy as well as being

(13:03):
strong in my own end one hundredpercent. But that but and you would
think he should be able to getthere again, It'll be very interesting for
me. They added another bullet totheir gun. If Matt Dushane can come
in here and I don't know whohe's going to play with, but he
plays with for instance, Sagan andMarsian. I don't know where they're going

(13:24):
to have him, but it's anotherweapon on the power play, for sure,
he's a He's an unbelievably skilled puckhandler passer. So I think that
lends to offense, which Mirrol willbe in and we'll be able to take
advantage of that. But you knowyou've got hands, Pavelski Robertson. You
know Mirrol can grab points there,there's no question, especially on the power

(13:46):
play. And you know then yougot why Johnson twenty plus goals last night.
Dodonov came in here and was areal good addition after being on I
don't know what it was, fouror five teams in six or seven years
came in here and an incredible job. And I just think that now what
they have is if if Matt Duchanecan get back to the form that Matt

(14:07):
Duchane was when in his younger years, being this flashy, incredibly skilled player.
Now all of a sudden, you'vegot three three lines you got to
worry about, real hard to matchup against from opposing teams, you know,
pick your poison and and then youknow, and again it's I've texted
a few times back and forth withJoe Pavelski. Joe is gonna thirty nine

(14:28):
years old, but Joe plays thegame from the from the shoulders up.
So forget about his foot speed andwhat he's going to be able to do
the same things with hints and robothat he did last year, I believe.
I mean, of course, there'syou know, the only one defeated
in this whole sports industry was FatherTime, and so that that day will
come. But what I really reallyappreciate about Joe Pavelski is his commitment to

(14:52):
play and stay in this organization.You know, he's reduced every year.
You know. I think after hecame off a contract he took four or
five million or something like that.Then he went down, I believe this
year. So that's sending the rightmessage. I was beating the drum two
years ago and I just said,if I'm Jim Neill, I'm finding a
way to get this guy not justlocked up for this team, but to

(15:15):
get locked up for this organization ifhe wants it. Because I just think
what he did with Wyatt Johnson.He took white in last year, you
know, so he was living withhim. Yeah, I mean, what
a better mentor you know, tolive with somebody like Joe Pavelski and all
the knowledge and hockey sense and everythingthat he has. But for me,
if there's not conversations, there shouldbe of what Joe can do for this

(15:37):
organization whenever he wants to put theskates away. And I when I look
at his numbers and things like that, he hasn't you know one, you
know, the MVP of the league. He doesn't want a scoring title,
he doesn't want to Stanley Cup.But for me, he's on that Hall
of fame. You know, he'sin that neighborhood. Does he need to

(16:00):
in one of those major awards?I think they kind of look at that
kind of stuff. So, butbut just an all around perfect guy to
have with this this group. Andthat's why it even feels more what urgent
right to win this year because youknow, because next year he's going to
be forty and as you mentioned,father time, you know, he just
keeps coming, and so it'd beawesome, wouldn't it to see Joe Pavelski

(16:23):
go out with the Stanley Cup,you know as his I mean a little
bit like yours was right? Thatwas your last year, wasn't it when
when Yeah, yeah, yeah,I was just going to say that,
you know, and I if Dallaswins the Cup, it's presented to Jamie
Ben, it will be handed toJoe Pavelski next dam That's always that's always
a talk, right, who's goingto get the cup after the captain gets

(16:45):
in? Yeah? But yeah,I mean I look at Carbo and I,
you know, Carbo and I werefortunate to when it when we were
younger in Montreal, and so itwas thirteen years in between for me and
you know, and I wasn't evencoming back. I was not going to
come back that year. I wasgoing to end. At the year four.
I got talked into coming back,and you know, you don't think
you're going to get to taste itagain, and it's hungry and you want

(17:07):
to be part of it, especiallywhen you're with a club like this.
And that's where I look at Joe. I mean, he knows the kind
of team that he's playing on rightnow. They've got the ability to do
this, and you know, whenyou cross your fingers, because you know,
it always comes into play. Aslong as everybody stays healthy, especially
at the right time of the year, that's important. So and I think
they got the right coach. Imean, I know when I talked to

(17:29):
the former Kelly's no longer with theteam, Kelly Forbes or video guys moved
on. I remember talking to Kellyat one of our podcast things last year
and they had just hired Pete andI just said, hey, what do
you think about the new coach?And he goes, he's incredible, And
it was more because it was almostlike less is more. He wanted the
players to be able to play,and he says, just from the standpoint
of what we're going to do andwhen we're going to start. It's like,

(17:51):
oh no, we don't have tostart yet, we can. We
got time to do that and let'sjust relax and things like that. And
I would assume that that rolls overinto the room into the players, and
the players you want to you wantto run your own team and you don't
want Mike Babcock running your team.Which there's your segue. Yeah, thank
you, Yeah, I thought tohelp you out with that one, you
know. So so I think thatI don't want to say as a players

(18:15):
coach, I don't even know ifthere are those kind of things anymore.
I mean, there have been afew pat burns for me, and you
know, guys have Yes, whenyou get a whole group of guys,
which I don't know how you keepa whole group happy because everybody wants to
play, you know a lot.But I think when you have everybody pretty
much saying the same thing about thecoaching staff man, that's a that's a
big, big sign of everybody pullingon the rope the same way. Yeah,

(18:38):
it's a great point, and especiallyyou know, I think not only
the players and the front off butguys who are in the trenches there,
you know, other assistant coaches,even those who have been inherited, you
know, they see those things andthat definitely speaks volumes about how a guy
comes in and about how he youknow, conducts himself in that role.
So but yeah, you did mentionBabcock, And I was going to say,

(19:00):
we get to talk lots of stars. They're often running in training camp.
We can't wait to talk all seasonabout what's going to be a great
team. But let's talk about thisthis hot news in hockey and the fact
that you know, Mike Babcock willnever even coach a game for the Columbus
Blue Jackets because of you know this, this incident that happened, uh,
you know, even before even beforea couple of days before training camp open

(19:23):
for those guys, and he hasessentially stepped down, but you know he
was basically told to step down.So talk about this. What do you
think about the Blue Jackets getting ridof Babcock on the doorstep of training camp?
Super unfortunate for the organization. Andyou know it's appropriate maybe that I'm

(19:45):
drinking Corona light or Corona because hemay want to get a hold of Snoop
Dogg because the next time you're goingto see him is probably doing a beer
commercial. Because when you say he'snot going to coach again this year,
I do not believe he's ever goingto coach again the NHL. For for
people that haven't heard Mike Bobcock aswe record, this was released what just
just under a week ago. Butand what happened is he came into and

(20:11):
I don't know, Mike Babcock neverhad to play for him, or never
played for him. I shouldn't sayhad. When he was interviewing his players
to meet his new team in Columbusafter being hired and going through the interview
process with Yaruqueline and j D.John Davidson, the president and the GM
of the team, he was askingplayers to see their cell phones and he

(20:34):
said he wanted to get to knowthe players, and he was going through
their camera rolls. From what Iunderstand, and a couple of the older
guys, the captain and Johnny Gudreaudidn't make much of it. Older players.
Again, they're older guys, andman, you know how it is
with kids. I mean, Idon't know if there's anything more important than

(20:55):
their phones and what they hold sacred. But as a young player and you've
got your coach scrolling through your cellphone, I would say, it's a
little bit uncomfortable, and it's youknow. And so ultimately what happened is
a couple of players said something.And credit to the guys over at Spitting
Chicklets, because Paul Bissonette, whodoes the TNT stuff, does a great

(21:18):
job there, and Ryan Whitney.These guys have contact yet and players,
and so somehow people were reaching outto Biz or Biz was going back and
forth with them, and he wasgetting some some feedback on what was going
on, and so they came outvia social media. They were pretty hard
on Babcock, and I think thatjust kind of snowballed, and then they

(21:41):
ultimately took a little deeper dive,meaning management, into what was going on,
and I think some of the players, some of the younger guys especially
probably expressed their feelings how uncomfortable itwas, and so they ultimately released them.
And he had just signed a twoyear deal four million a year,
and when a question was asked inthe press conference to John Davidson, the

(22:04):
president of the club, about hiscontract, you know, is this Nolan
void now or what is it?And all as they said, as we
came to an agreement. So Babcockis going to come in. And he
never coached a team, He nevergot a training camp with it, team,
had some meetings with some players apparently, and he is now probably going

(22:26):
to get some money. Nothing's beendisclosed about all that kind of stuff.
And you know, it's funny becauseI go back to last year doing a
couple of podcasts and I did one. The first one I did, it
was with Chris Chelios and I knewthat Shelley had played for Babcock, and
I asked Shelley about him, andShelley didn't have a lot of good things

(22:48):
to say. I get it.He's you know what he did to Mike
McDonald, You know that was theicing on the cake, you know at
the end that right he got,he held. He scrashed him two games,
last two games of the year,that meant nothing, to not let
him play his fifteen hundred game.And his quote was, he's not here,
you know it'll play fifteen hundred games. He's here to help us win
the Stanley Cup. So what's hedoing the playoffs? He healthy scratches him.

(23:11):
And then Mode plays Game six againstSan Jose, gets two points.
We beat them seven too. It'sthe best game we had of the series.
What does he do Game seven,healthy scratches him. Were losing overtime.
So he's a jackass playing and simplethis guy. And there's a reason
why he's not coaching now. It'snot good of his coaching ability, you
know, it's because of the atticsthat he pulls in the games that he

(23:32):
plays. And Kenny Holland would bringguys in and he would not play them
despite Kenny to show Kenny that heyou know, he's going to have that
last decision, which you know Kennysaid, that's his decision to play in
the lineup. But you know allthe stuff he pulled in Toronto, and
you know what he did to thekid wasn't named Spezza from Ottawa. He's
first game back and he healthy scratcheshim. There's no need for that.

(23:55):
There's too many good people in hockeyand he don't need a guy like that,
you know, doing that stuff.And like I said, I wouldn't
be shocked if someone hires him again. You know, somebody in Canada probably
will hire him. But yeah,he, like I said, not my
favorite guy. But like I said, it's you know, water under the
bridge. I don't hate Mike Babtockanymore. You know, he's nothing to

(24:17):
me quite honestly. Well wait,let's not get over the bridge yet.
Let's talk about the guy I stillhate him. I still, yeah,
I know you do. Let's tella story about the Winter Classic game.
Oh. So he's trying now.For the four days before that, he's
telling I'm not playing. He justcalled me into so he wants a reaction
out of me. I said,okay, whatever, Kenny Holland and Jim

(24:38):
Nill told him. He's playing.He's in the lineup. It's his hometown.
You're not going to embarrass hing likethat. So what does he do?
He suits up seven Defenseman, whichhe never does. Suits up anders
Lilia, who's from Sweden and hasnever seen Rigley Field, doesn't know anything
about Wrigley Field, like he cares, who doesn't want to play an outdoor
game. So he suits up sevendefenseman, puts me in the starting lineup,

(25:00):
plays me two shifts, and benchesme the rest of the game.
So halfway through the first I figuredout I look back at Brad mccruman.
I go, what's going on?He goes, he told me not to
play the rest of the game.I'm like, okay. So my two
sons are twenty feet away on theon the glass watching the game. They're
looking at me and they're shrugging theirshoulders. What's going on? So I

(25:22):
called Jake over. I said,go tell those trainers, go get me
a couple of beers. So myother son, Dean, like, he's
a good two shoot Deano, hedidn't like doing. He goes, Dad,
No, no, no, I'llgo. Yeah, I'm not playing
anymore, so go get me somebeers. So no one knew, like
now one guy in the team.I sat in the end of the bench.
No one knew I had a cluewhat I was doing. So come
third period, we get a penaltywith two minutes left in the game and

(25:45):
mcrmin says, you gotta go outthere. I said, not a chance.
My feet hurt and I'm cold,so I didn't go out there.
We got scored against him. Babcocklost his mind that I didn't go out
there, But I was in thebar across the street and Murphy's before he
even got to the dressing room,So you didn't get a chance. You
didn't get a chance to get atme until two days later at their ring.
But yeah, I guess again senselesswhat he tried doing, and uh,

(26:10):
you know, and to get evenwith him, I healthy scratched myself
later in the year to go watchmy son Jake and Pittsburgh win the National
Championship. And I didn't tell Babs. I told Kenny Holland I was going.
And that's when I got Babs.That was the greatest day in my
life. His veins were popping outof his neck. His head looked like
he was going to blow up.The next day when he says if he
runs a team, so and thenext was actually the next one was Mike

(26:36):
Commodore. Commie had played for Carolina. He was with Babcock in Detroit.
He was with him, I believein Anaheim a couple of teams and has
nothing good to say about him andhow we treated him and kind of dangling
ice time and things like that.That never came through a contract. And
he agreed to a contract after talkingto Babs and then didn't play. And

(26:59):
my big thing with Babs. Andnow you know, a few years ago.
I go to Calgary, Babs goesto Detroit and Carolina. Whatever.
I'm in Columbus now I ripped himin the paper. When I'm in Columbus
the first time Detroit comes to town, I find out Shelly and Oz Good
those guys cut out the articles highlightthe parts where I'm ripping them because they
loved it. We ended up beatingDetroit and overtime. I actually had a

(27:21):
couple of points, which just ison the overtime winner. I'll never forget.
I was so plump. Anyways,things go sideways in Columbus on me
and I'm now bought out and thisis my big thing with Babs. So
got out at the end of June. Sorry. Free agency starts the next
day. I'm friends with Ken Holland, who is the general manager of Detroit.

(27:42):
Babs is the head coach in Detroit. I'm friends with Ken. I
played in a couple of his golfevents. I've had beers with him,
ripping on Babs whatever. I likekeno. Ken likes me. So ended
Joe and talk to my agent.He's like, yeah, probably gonna be
you know, you're getting obviously orbought out. Maybe you get another chance,
maybe wait something in August. Igo cool, sounds good. Next

(28:03):
day phone rings him in Colowna,British Columbia. It's five minutes into pre
agency. My agent. He's like, hey, I got a contract offer.
I'm like cool, I go,well, what is it? He's
like, one year, one millionbucks. I'm like awesome, I'm not
going to get any more than that. Coming off a buyout, I'm like,
whoa, who is it? He'slike Detroit. This agent was different
than when I had in Babbs thefirst time. And I say, well,

(28:26):
I'm not going to Detroit. There'sonly one reason why Babs wants me
in Detroit. And I stand mycareer, this is my last opportunity.
I understand this. If he doesn't, If I go there and he doesn't
play me at all, I'm done. Tell him a story a little bit.
He's like, well, I'm like, just put them off. Like
literally, free agency just started.Nobody, no other team is thinking of
calling me for weeks, like toput them off or something. My agent

(28:49):
goes well, Ken told me.He said, tell him Mike that he's
got fifteen minutes to make up hismind. We haven't need to know he's
in or he's out if he's notin in fifteen minutes in a different direction.
So now I'm like, are youshipping me? So I'm like,
I'll call you back to my agents. I call Ken Holland like, Ken,
I'm like, I'd love to playfor you. I would love to

(29:10):
play in Detroit. I'm like,you guys are good, You're gonna make
the playoffs. I'm like, Ilove playing in Joe Lewis Arena. I'm
like, I would love to playin Detroit. I'm like, you know
what, I think you're head coach. Is it you that wants me?
Does he want me to? Ishe gonna? Is he gonna screw me
over? Now? You know hesays he wants you. I'm like,
Ken, do you believe him?He's like, yeah, I do believe
in this time. I go giveme his number, gives me his number.

(29:33):
I called Babs Hey, Mike,I go, Babs, I go.
Please be honest with me. Freeagencies just started. Do you want
me on your hockey team or not? This is my last opportunity. I
just got bought out. You knowthis, I know this. This is
my last chance. Do you wantme on the hockey team or not are
you going to give me an opportunityor not? Or are you just getting

(29:56):
me here to end my career?This is it for me. I understand
that. No, no, no, Mike. We need a right handed
defenseman. We need a physical presence. We need somebody to play with Nick.
I'm like, Babs, last chance. There's no hard feelings here.
If you don't want me, I'mgonna say no and I'll go somewhere else
else, hopefully later in the summer. No, no, no, I
need you need, you'll launch it. Blah blah blah, hang up a

(30:17):
phone. I got five minutes leftbefore this contract is gone. With no
guarantee, I'm gonna get anything ifI let this pass. So my god
is screaming, don't go to Detroit. You know this guy, he all
he's gonna want to do is screwyou. Call me agent. He's like,
what do you say. I'm like, well, he said this.
He's like, what do I go? I think he's gonna screw me.

(30:37):
He's like, Mike, you know, play with Nick a little bit,
like, man, you're gonna bein the playoffs. And so then I
start thinking about that. I'm like, oh, Nick Lids, that's thirty
four points for me. This isgonna be an awesome year. So I
take Babs at his word, signthat contract, get in there. And
I was out from the word go, Like he wouldn't even let me practice.
I wasn't able to do all therails. He was calling guys up

(31:02):
from the miners to keep me scratched, like it was a disaster. Well,
why why do you think, Imean, and there, and so
Kenny's got to pay you. Imean you're getting paid. So yeah,
I don't understand that. Do youthink he actually brought you in there to
end your career? There's no doubt. There's no doubt. Like at no

(31:22):
point during that season did he evenlike like consider playing me, And like,
like the first game I didn't playuntil I think my first game with
the Red Wings was like the firsthalf of November. I haven't played an
NHL game and like almost a yearexcept the exhibition. He played me in
a couple of exhibition games, andlike he's calling up guys from the miners

(31:48):
to keep like I'm sitting there unhealthy, like, oh, you want to
change the lineup up or somebody getsdanged up, Like, no, you're
staying you're not playing, I'm gonnacall up Brendan Smith or whoever else from
the miners, Like he's going outof his way, so I don't play.
Why he didn't want anything do withme. I had never had anything
to do with the period before Imet him in Anaheim, So I really

(32:13):
don't know what it was. Ever, he's gone on record like a couple
of times, like in the lastcouple of years, because obviously I spent
I spent well, I've eased offsince you've got canned in Toronto. But
I spent four or five years trippinghim online and he's you know, he
said, wow, you got tobe able to play. But it's like,
dude, like I've like, Iget what you're saying, Like if

(32:36):
you're looking for a Nick Lidstrom,I'm not your guy. But it's like,
Dude, I also accoumpled some thingsand you're sitting here telling me that
I can play and you're gonna giveme an opportunity, So I know you're
full of shit. So I don't. For the life of me, I
don't think i'll ever know what itwas or what it is. Maybe it's
just one of those things he didn'tlike the looks to me, I have
no clue. And then the otherone was Hall of Famer Mike Madonnald and

(33:00):
know and what he did the molewas, you know, And I saved
that question until near the end ofthe podcast, and I wasn't sure how
Mike was gonna talk about it,and you know, to Mike's credit,
very very candid and spoke about it, clipping along get the fourteen ninety seven.
Everybody knows what's going on in themedia, the players, you know,
how we're all talking about. Youknow, oh Man, Minnesota against

(33:22):
Minnesota at home, fifteen hundred.How cool is that? You know?
Wake up from my nap on thegame the day of the wild game and
Babcock calls to tell me he wasgoing to leave me out of the game.
So I was like, I wasdone. I mean, did you
think he was serious? I wasat first not. At first. I

(33:47):
thought, you know, he wasgonna say, hey, you're God,
you're coming up to that number.We're excited for you, just to give
you, you know, you gottwo more hanging, you know, give
you one of those deals. Andit didn't come. After he was like,
I'm gonna have you out tonight foryou know, this game tonight,
and I was like, I wasjust kind of caught off guard. I

(34:09):
didn't know what to say. Sohey, you know, we hang up
and I'm like, so I getready. I go to the game,
come around, and you know,there's a lineup on the board, and
I was like, and everybody's lookingat the board, in the lineup in
the locker room, assistant coaches mccriminwas there, McLean, all those guys,

(34:30):
and you know, at the time, those guys were scared of death.
Everybody was scared of death to saysomething to Babcock and no one said
inning. And I was like,yeah, I can't believe it. So
I'm going to go to Chicago andplay the next game and get fourteen ninety

(34:50):
nine. Yeah. And so hisreason is, Mike, we didn't bring
you in here to play fifteen hundredgames. We brought you in here to
win a Stanley Cup. How didthat sit with you? So that way,
they're just deflated my existence of playing. I did not want to that,

(35:10):
did it. I was. Iwas like, I'm playing what happens
or whatever happens. The rest ofthe way, I'm done. I'm not
playing anything. I'm firing after thisyear. I played two games in the
playoffs and uh, you know,that was it. So I was like,
basically, Moe was there sitting onfourteen hundred ninety nine games played and

(35:32):
did not play him the rest ofthe year to get his fifteen hundredth game.
So you want to talk about akick in the nuts to a Hall
of Fame, Hall of Fame player, a guy that never ruffled any feathers
and you know, most modis,most a lot of times wouldn't say shit
if he had a mouthful. He'sjust he just does his business, you

(35:53):
know, the rest of us chirpand all this other kinds of stuff.
So there are three guys that wedid podcast with last year and they all
nobody saw this coming, but theykind of did because they just said he
was an ass. And so anyways, yeah, you know, again,
what I don't understand about some ofthis. You know, I've been working

(36:14):
with our seventeen and eight year kidswith our Dallas Stars Elite team. You
know, they're a Triple A club, and we play sixty to sixty five
games zero with them. We travelaround the country and things like that,
but we have to do something calledsafe Sport every year and it's you do
it online and it basically you're keepingup to date with how do you handle
this situation, How do you handleif you hear this conversation going on in

(36:37):
the locker room? How do youhandle something on a bus, you know,
going into a into a restroom ifone of the players in there.
All these kind of things, andyou have to take this test, and
it's a refresher every year, andthings change, and because the world is
changing, and so you have tokind of know what the deal with what
not to do. It's more aboutwhat not to do than what to do.

(36:58):
It's on the ice and stuff likethat. As far as I'm concerned,
the way I speak to players,it's a little old school, but
I think they understand where I'm comingfrom. I know I can talk hard
to a player, but I'll goup to them right after I say and
say do you understand what I'm talkingabout? They're like yeah. So I
don't know why they don't have thingslike that with coaches, because you know,
and again there's been a lot fora long time rads and you can
speak about all the other sports.It's kind of been the old Boys Club,

(37:21):
right, I mean they recycle thecoaches that have been around for years
and years and years, and Ithink it's changing a little bit, and
I truly believe that there needs tobe You can have an old school coach
in there that's has success and stickingaround, but I think you need some
younger coaches that have coached in eitherthe junior levels or the college level,
or even the level that we are. But because you get to learn what

(37:45):
makes these kids tick. Today,you can listen and you can read,
but you need to live it,and you need to know the signs.
I can see signs some certain kidsthat are they're quiet kids. There's cocky
kids, there's confident kids. AndI talk to them differently, you know,
and I may be harder on thecocky kid than I am on the

(38:05):
kid that's really shy and quiet,and you can just see by their mannerisms
how they go about, and soyou get you have to try to find
a way to get into each oneof those guys so that they can trust
you, knowing that you will givethem. If you don't do it right,
I'm gonna give you shit, butit doesn't mean I don't want you
on the team or anything like that, you know, so I just wonder
why they don't have more of thator maybe they will implement. And the

(38:25):
other the other spot that you gotto give credit to was the Players Association.
Those guys got wind of this wholething. Whether somebody called them,
they flew in and they met withthe players they met I believe they met.
I don't know who they all metwith, but they did their due
diligence and at the end of it, it was like, no, this
guy cannot be coaching. That's whyI say, maybe you and Snoop on

(38:46):
a beach someday. That's that's youryour last chance. So let me just
play double's advocate a little bit.And again where I come from. And
you know this, lads, I'ma Detroit guy. Babcock, you know,
took the Red Wings to the StanleyCup, won the Stanley Cup in
two thousand and eight. You know, he brought them over the top and
got to that point obviously, andI you know, we've just heard the

(39:07):
comments from Moo. He could havecoached that fucking teams. Monkey could have
coached that team. They were sogood. Yeah, they were pretty good.
But the team now that if youlisten to what people are calling on,
maybe they that's what they done aboutI'm telling you they were yeah,
yeah, okay, go ahead.So anyway, But but what we've already
heard from Shelley, you know,and from Mo you know, and from

(39:29):
Commodore is all that this is abad guy, right, But I'm not
sure that what precipitated this is sobad. I mean, again, there's
two sides of every story. Hesays, he's just trying to get to
know these guys and their families.And as you said, Boone Jenner,
the captain, you know, Gudro, they were like, it's fine.
We showed him a few pictures.He showed us pictures of his family.

(39:52):
Now, uh, I get AndI also get that the younger guys,
if you know, a couple ofthem, they weren't they didn't name names,
but a couple of them said,yeah, I was looking a little
too long up my thing. Well, a lot of these guys might have,
you know, pictures from their girlfriendsand stuff like that that you know,
he may have been leering at.And that's, uh, you know,
that's very uncomfortable. So we don'tknow exactly what happened there but it

(40:15):
does seem to me like this isthat same thing about you know, this
younger generation of athlete being so thinskinned that you know, if you violate
this little uh, you know thingof mine, you know, you're completely
dead to me. Now, maybemaybe all of them just knew that from

(40:36):
you know, word gets around.This is a bad guy. We don't
want him, you know, yellingand screaming at us in an old school
style every day. So you seizean opportunity. Right, he does this,
that's bad. Let's seize this opportunityand get him out of here before
he has a chance to set usout when we're on fourteen ninety nine and
don't go. But I don't knowin your safe sport do they say you

(41:00):
can't look at the kids self?All right? You see what I'm saying.
I mean, is that is thatsomething that that coaches should know is
taboo? That is not part ofthe That question did not come up in
the test, But I can promiseyou it'll come up next year. That
will be that will be part ofit. It'll probably be about social media
and all. I don't recall thosequestions on there. I got nine out

(41:22):
of ten right in the final TESTO. So I'm pretty proud of myself and
you got, well, you got. You gotta read shit. Then you
gotta watch a video and then youget multiple question and you get multiple questions
at the end of it or multiyou know what ab like, Like I
didn't even do that when I wasin college, much less now, you
know, And so it's kind oflike all coming full circle. So I

(41:45):
was actually shocked. But you haveto go through all these tests, and
you have to go through all thesequizzes until you get to the final one.
And if you don't get enough rightafter you watch the video, you
have to go back watch the videoagain, and it recognizes if you watch
it or not. You have towatch it again, and then you have
to answer the same questions again becausethey don't give you the answer the correct

(42:05):
answer, like if you say Aand A C, they don't They just
said nope, wrong answer done.And then so you go on to the
next nine. Then if you don'tget I don't know what it is,
maybe six or seven correct, yougotta go back watch the video and then
do it all over again. SoI'm sure because of this, there's gonna
be a lot of things that change. I think this is just the beginning.

(42:25):
And again this is not to saythat this generation is soft, They're
not there anything, but but they'rea different player. They play a different
style of game, and we're alladjusting that are old school guys. We
would love to CEM be more physical. We would love like you know,
I was used to getting yieled outof a coach. I mean Mike madonno

(42:46):
was getting used to getting Hitchcock yelling. But most the first guy at his
induction, who does he bring upKen Hitchcock? Who does Zoobie bring up
Ken Hitchcock? You know so?And I'm holly, I mean these guys,
but again, that's a different generationthan right now. But that's the

(43:06):
way it was. It's not likethat now. And so, like I
said in my opinion, you justhave to you have to get and Babcock
wanted to learn and get to knowas players. He just went way too
far and getting to know him andhe didn't invade their privacy. I mean,
you talk about the try red Wings, talk about that team. You
know how this all got started wasby one of those red Wing players,

(43:27):
was Holmstrong. He verbally apparently allegedlywell Holmes Stroms come out and said it.
Now, he abused him and toldhim he was overweight and he was
too fat, and he was softand if if you're played against you know
he's a great player. And soanyway, but again, that was in
at a time when you probably didn'tcome out and say anything. You didn't

(43:47):
want to come out and let thecoach know that you were calling you this
and calling you that. Now theydo, ye, So you know,
bottom line is he did. Hedidn't adapt, and he didn't learn by
anything. And I love what youwere saying about your approach to your kids
because I've always said the best coachesin any sport are those that have a
little bit of psychologist in him.Right, You've got to be able to

(44:10):
read the people, read the room, if you will, and know what
is going to make this kid tick, the shy kid. You've got to
be a little easier on the cockykid, a little harder. I remember
back in the day, I dida radio show way back when le Roy
Glover played for the Cowboys and Parcelswas the coach then, and he said
mcglover was telling me, Yeah,walking out to practice today, it's early

(44:32):
in the season, walking out topractice and Parcells walks by me and he
goes, Glover, you walk likea duck, even look like an athlete.
What the heck are you doing outhere? And goes on about his
business. I says to Glover,how do you practice? That day?
Says I tore people up right andso right, because I'm going to show

(44:52):
you, coach, you think I'ma duck, you think I'm not an
athlete. And I think Parcels knewthat that was what Aby would inspire Glover
right in that sense, And it'sthe same thing with you. Jimmy Johnson
was a master psychologist in that regard. And you know, and Hitch I
think had some of that in himtoo. I mean he was he was

(45:13):
a little more indiscriminate with the yelling. I think he you know, I'm
all human. Well, so Iyou know, Hitch, Hitch had reached
out to me a couple of timessince I was done, and and I
this is where I think I gota different perspective. But but I was
in the office almost on a dailything. But it was more of being

(45:35):
conduit between the coaching staff and ourplayers, and so hey, let's you
got to go talk to so andso let's get it. I'm thinking,
Jesus, why didn't you bring itso? But he knew what he was
doing. But there was one yearhe uh, he said, he called
me up and he said, hey, let's say, I need you to
write me a paper. I waslike what, And I even said him
as it, Hitch, do youknow who you just dial? Like?
You know you know who you're talkingto? You here right right paper?

(45:58):
I'm like, what do you wantmere? He go? He goes,
I'm I'm having a hard time gettingthrough to our players. He goes,
I need you to write something downhow you dealt with me from a player
to a coach. And so wehad that conversation and I asked him,
you know, is it a certainguy? And he told me yes,
and who it was and made sensethat you know, one of your leaders.

(46:19):
But what it told me was hewas trying to evolve. He was
trying to understand how to get toa certain player. But Hitch has said,
He goes, I will cause chaosand give shit to players on purpose
as a group, not as anindividual. As a group, he goes,
I don't care if they bark atme. I want them to bark
at me. I want them torally around each other in spite of me.

(46:44):
And he would always say, letsyou know, you know, when
I finally got to you guys,whether it was a system or traveling around,
the big thing was is like wewould we would go to Colorado for
training camps, and so we'd goto Vail, which for me, I
hated it because of the altitude.I can't around here much less running and
riding on a bike and shit likethat unless it's got a motor of between

(47:04):
my legs. But kind of aboutwhat But when he said, you know
what, we get the training camps, we're out having coffee the coaches and
stuff like that, and we seethree four guys walking together, and then
there goes another of five, sixguys, and then there goes two guys,
and he goes, by day three, we have ten guys, and
then we see another twelve, andthen we say fifteen guys all going to

(47:27):
the same bar at the same restaurant. That's that's he's just trying to build
that chemistry and that camaraderie between theclubs. He goes, I don't care
if they yell at me and screamingme because they all rally around and he
goes, it brings the group together, it goes, it doesn't, and
I know it didn't bother him.But he will go up and he'll talk
to you later. He'll he'll buthe has a he had a reason why
he wanted to do it. Heis now a Hall of Fame coach.

(47:51):
So it worked for him. Butto get different time. But like I
say, he just by reaching Iknow I'm not the only guy he reached
out to. I'm probably the lastguy he reached out to just say hey,
how did you handle me? Butthere's signs of trying to understand the
new generation of players, and Ito this day I find I mean,
I can call it hits right now. But and we did a little thing

(48:12):
with him last year too, andvery candid and stuff like that, and
it was prior to him being inductedin the Hall of Fame. But but
I will pull up on YouTube becausethey do a lot of coaching clinics and
things like that, and they'll you'llfind them on YouTube, and there were
stuff. I'll take it into theroom and I'll say, Addie, listen
to this, and you know,here, here's how he wanted this drill
to be running. Here's why youwant to run this drill. So anyways,
I have a ton of respect forthat guy. Anyway, Like I

(48:34):
said, it's a different time,and if you don't want to work at
at you know that that part ofthe game now, which is even more
important than it used to be.I mean, you talked to Al Arbor
and and I played for Al,another Hall of Fame coach for a short
while, and uh, you know, I mentioned a couple of other guys,
but but you knew exactly where youstood when you left that room.
If you went in for a meeting, you knew exactly where it was.

(48:55):
I mean I was there with PatBurns after we were in the playoff game.
And Burnsie was a cop in Montrealand for twenty years, so he
knew where we were all the time. What you needed to know where we
were all the time in Montreal,and so he could use that little bit
of infull. But he called mean after a playoff game and he said
sit down, and uh, andwe actually lost the game. And I'm
like, oh shit, I'm notHe's calling me out tomorrow night or something

(49:17):
like that, and he goes heasked me. He goes, what'd you
do last night and this night beforethe game? And I told him because
I know he knows, and hegoes, did you make it in for
curfew? I'm like, no,I was a little late. He goes,
oh, and I'm waiting for it, and I'm waiting for it,
and he goes, you know what, do the same thing tonight? You
had a great game. I waslike, well, there's the green light.

(49:37):
But it wasn't a green light.I could read between the lines.
He knew where was. You know, I'll go have a few beers,
but I'm not going to push thelimits because now I know he's got eyes
on me or whoever it may be. But different tactics for different players,
you know what I mean. Soyeah, I'm talking about that go ahead
of the line. Seems to bethat has never done that, right,

(49:58):
I mean, you know, youtalked to guys who had him throughout the
course of the career, and hejust he doesn't appear to be a guy
who's ever done that exactly. Andthat's what every player says. He never
He just wanted to be the ruler, and he was. He was the
alpha male and everybody else was notand you're not worthy. And again,

(50:21):
the one thing you can't criticize himfor is it wasn't the fourth line was
he would do it to the topguys, the middle guys. He would
do it to everybody. So youknow, and on that note, like
talk about coaches, Dean Sanders.We talked about Dan last week and I
hope you're making some progress getting upon the show. But but he did
the sixty minute piece, right.He did that the other night and I
missed a little bit of it andI found it online and he made a

(50:45):
comment in there. I mean,he's a confident guy, but for good
reason. He had said something likethese guys, these kids didn't come here
because it's the Colorado University. Hesays, they came here because of me.
And I believe, I believe thatthose players, whoever those eighty five
or eighty seven, whatever was number, they came there because of Dion.

(51:07):
So Dan's a very confident guy.We know that, but he could back
it up and you know early onhe's having some success, which you know
better to speak about that than me. It's unbelievable what he's doing, and
you know there is it's not likeeverybody in the world agrees with his approach.
Right. I mean, obviously theygot higher ratings for that game against

(51:30):
Colorado State than the Texas Alabama gamehad gotten the week before, right,
And the Colorado State Colorado game endedat one twenty five our time, so
it was a very late game atthree point nine million viewers. Right,
So that speaks to how he haskind of captured the nation. But I
believe maybe not half, but alot of those people are watching hoping that

(51:55):
this experiment with Deon Sanders doesn't work. Now, We're not two of those
people. When I watch, I'mrooting for Dion. I think what he's
doing there is unbelievable. And whatpeople don't understand if they're rooting against him
is that all of the brash andall of the bravado, and on sixty

(52:15):
minutes they said, you know,who's the best coach in college football?
And He's like, you think I'mgonna say anybody but me, I'm gonna
say me. Do you who doyou think I am? You know?
And then he did go on,in fairness, he did go on to
praise Nick Saban, who has proventhat he, you know, has all
those skins on the wall. Butbut Deon is like, no, nobody's

(52:37):
better than me at the things thatI do, and that rubs a lot
of people the wrong way. ButI believe that what Deon is is a
master of the marketing right and ofgetting the attention for his group, his
team, his cause, whatever itmight be. And he has done that
so amazing. Of course, threewins hell, but he's done it unbelievably

(53:02):
well in attracting the attention that willput Colorado over the top, no question,
maybe even you know, take theminto like a situation where they have
a chance to be in the youknow, in the final four and all
that other stuff or but at veryleast it's going to put them. They've
already sold out every game for theseason. They don't usually do that.
It's unbelievable from one and eleven lastyear. But there are people out there

(53:27):
who all that stuff rubs them sothe wrong way. And you have to
realize that the other side of Dionis the one that we saw online this
week where you know, there wasthat big hit against Travis Hunter last week
and the Colorado State kid just laida lick on him and her Hunter got
hurt, and all that other stuff. And anyway, there were death threats

(53:51):
against the Colorado State kid that laidthat hit on him, and Dion came
out and said, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
This is a game that is agood player. He made a great
play in an important game. Stopit. And if it's he said,
if it's the Colorado fans, I'mdisappointed in you, stop it. Don't
give this kid death threats. Thisis the kid that you know wants to

(54:14):
get his college education and go onand play in the NFL. So leave
him alone. And those are thekinds of things that would probably, uh,
those who don't like his brashness andhis bravado, they would think,
yeah, well, you know he'sa you know he would, but he's
complete. Dion is a complete guy. He's you and I know he's a

(54:34):
good man. And I'm just I'mreal proud of the job that he's doing
it at Colorado. And and bythe way, Jerry Jones was quoted after
the Cowboys game this week saying,hey, I watched every play of that
Colorado game rooting for Dion, andthen unsolicited nobody asked, he said,
I think he'll make a great coachin the NFL someday, So yeah,

(54:59):
I'd be interested if he wants todo that, because he did make a
comment about that. He goes,I can't get the players that are that
are making ten, fifteen, twentymillion dollars a year, So it'd be
interesting if he would want to takethat step. When you talk about the
ratings and all that kind of stuffin the school and the game, all
the games being sold out, docoaches or do you think he has anything

(55:21):
where he gets a percentage of anyof that that the school is benefiting off
of him coming to that team.Because I saw something I think it was
this morning. The sunglasses that hewears they sold four million dollars or four
and a half million dollars they soldthem. They made replicas of those sunglasses
four and a half million dollars fromthe company that made those replicas. Whether
that's true or not. But docoaches have any kind of incentive like that?

(55:43):
Do? I mean players are gettingpaid now? I mean, so
does does Dione have any kind ofgames being sold out and memorabilia and if
they're buying his sunglasses or his jerseycoming from the school, not from Nike
or anything else like that. Yeah, I think that, Like on the
sunglass deal, I think that's adeal that he broker for himself. So

(56:06):
he's making money off of that sunglassdeal right on his own, without not
even going through the university. Sothat's one. But when But your question
is good because I noticed or Isaw something that said and you know,
there's obviously a whole bunch of CUBuffalo shirts that just say Prime on him
and then have the Buffalo or youknow, Prime going down the shirt and
whatever, and those the sales ofthose are up three or four hundred percent

(56:30):
of just Colorado Buffalo memorabiliare right.And I don't know the answer to if
the coaches get that. You know, he's a smart guy, so it
wouldn't be surprising to me and hisage. I don't know if his agent
is still Eugene Parker. I thinkit might be, And Parker's a smart
guy and so it wouldn't surprise methat they thought of that. And the

(56:51):
classic example of someone who couldn't doanything about that back in the day is
that Johnny Football, Johnny Manzel,right, I mean, he brought Texas
A and M so much money inthat one year that he won the Heisman
and that they beat Alabama in Tuscaloosa, that he brought him so much money
they basically leveled the stadium and builta new one. I mean millions and

(57:14):
millions and millions of dollars and hegot nothing for it, right because again
in those days, players couldn't.There's a documentary out about Johnny football,
and it's a good one and itjust shows Wow, what a what a
ride that was, And he basically, you know, I mean, and
he tried. He had a coupleof you know, deals on the side
working that were certainly against NCAA violationsand all that stuff, but he brought

(57:39):
that university so much notoriety. Andthat's exactly what Dion is doing to Colorado
right now. Of course the playersare making it happen too, but Dion
brought the players in. Yeah.I watched that documentary probably about four or
five nights ago. It were realgood. I love it. I've never
been a big college football fan,Yeah, I've never have been. I'm

(58:00):
more the NFL and not. I'mnot a big basketball fan in general,
but I would never watch college basketball. Don't know enough about it. Anyways,
but anyway, you know it getsDan got me to I watched I've
watched all three of Colorado's teams alreadyand it's not because of the team.
It's because of Dion and I wantthe camera on him. I want to
see how he because I can learnthings just from him. The way he

(58:22):
sees a player that made a mistakeand how does he go up to him,
and that he might he approaches theplayer in a different way. So
A big, big fan of DanSanders and man, I wish them all
the best. And like I said, I'm not even a college football fan,
but I want to bring it backto the old guys. Now.
We talked about the Stars off theTop coming up this week, and you

(58:45):
probably don't know about this Ras,but we got a big thing called the
Big Hearts, and what we dois there will be I think there's somewhere
between sixteen and eighteen teams this year. We have a draft on Thursday nights,
so that'll be on the twenty seventh. On the twenty eighth is the
game. There's a big draft atCo America here in Frisco, and there's

(59:07):
eighteen teams. I think they're madeup of fifteen fifteen to eighteen players on
each team, there will be adraft, and so that team will actually
draft one of the players. DarnHatch is gonna be here, Matt for
Chuck is gonna be here, Fitsplays, We had madonno here when we
are. Brett Hall is coming in, but he's not going to play.
He'll be there for the draft onbasically he'll be there for the free drinks

(59:28):
on Thursday night. But the draftis a big deal. They have a
big the whole floors roped off carpet, and then we'll go up on stage
and they'll kind of raffle off theplayers and things like that. Last year
i'd heard we did over the alumni. It's some good money and it all
goes to the Heart Foundation, soit's for a good charity. And then
on Friday after the draft, that'sa rough one. So this kind of

(59:50):
takes us back to the old daywhere we had a curfew, but you
ain't getting back for the curfew onThursday night and then we'll start playing games
at eight am and we play fivegames on Friday. Now games are only
I think they're like fifteen minutes long, possibly, and there's straight time,
or maybe they're thirty minutes with twofifteens, whatever it is, but it's
straight time. But anyway, andyou play back to back or you'll play

(01:00:13):
a game in between, and they'replayed in McKinney and Frisco, I believe
is where they're going to be played. But anyway, it's a good time.
It's for a great cause, andthere'll be some unbelievable things on Thursday
night. And what can The wayyou get up in the draft order is
that's how much you raised coming intoit and how much you spend on Thursday
night. So there could be youknow, one group of guys and they

(01:00:36):
may have a sponsor whatever it maybe, and they end up with twenty
five thirty thousand dollars and being thetop thing, they get to pick first.
So Ray Bourke has gone first,and Corson's gone first. Obviously McDonald's
gone first, Bell four would gofirst. I don't know if Ed he's
playing this year. I would probablyguess he would be. But anyway,
so it's a real good event andI'm hoping that because Metfa, Chuck and

(01:00:59):
Hatcher are. We did a podcastwith Hatch last year actually at the Sandman
out there in Plano, Plano forScar Area at the Moxie's Bar that they
have in the hotel there. SoI'm hoping to have Maddie, Matt,
Chuck and Hatcher possibly next week,which would be which would be a good
one. You know, then twoguys were partners for a long time.

(01:01:19):
I don't know if you could designtwo better guys to play together when when
they were in their prime. SoI'm looking forward to that. It ends
up being a long, long twentyfour or forty eight hours for for everybody.
And I just happened to look atHatchie's flight on so the games are
Friday on Saturday morning. I neveraccused him of being real smart guy,

(01:01:42):
but he's flying out at seven amback to try to go out. So
apparently it's going from this thing tothe airport. So anyway, looking forward
to that again. We this isI don't know four or five sixty you've
ever been, but it's it's it'sa great time. It's for a great
charity. Marty Turco doesn't credible job. You know, none of those dollars
are are going to, you know, to the Stars Foundation that Marty's in

(01:02:05):
charge of. Marty's always done agreat job and and and he's passionate about
what he does. So looking forwardto that and our alumni director, I
can't cannot not mention Bobby Basson,Bobby Basson as a director of our alumni
association, and between Marty and bassand what they do for the alumni.
And you know, now we're atthe point where our alumni we're you know,
we're taking our show on the road. And we played we played a

(01:02:27):
game every year here at the AmericanAirlines. Last year it was the Rangers.
I think before that it was Detroit. So we'll get those alumnis to
play some games. Last year theguys went to Chicago. I was on
the road with our team, soI missed that one of all places,
and Shelly was there and I missedit. So anyway, and another shout
out to Chris Chelios. Part ofthe podcast that I did with Shelley mentioned.

(01:02:52):
I asked Shelly, I said,man, you know you got three
Stanley Cups. Hall of Fame.Blah blah blah blah, I said.
And I asked, Moldis, Iasked all those guys the same thing.
What's more important to you? Isit? The Stanley Cup or is it
the Hall of Fame? Like,I'm just curious. I mean, what
means more to you? And Iremember Shelly saying, be honest with you

(01:03:13):
Les neither one. I'm like,yeah, okay, because now you're blown
spoke up my ass and he goes, No, he goes, I would
love to see my jersey retired inthe Chicago stadium. I said, really,
He goes, yeah, I'd loveto see it hanging the rafters.
You know, those other things aregreat, he goes, But that someday,
when I'm gone, my kids willsee my jersey hanging in the rafters
in Chicago. Now, Shelley playedseven years or so in Montreal, where

(01:03:37):
I was with him eight years,I believe, in Chicago and ten years
and Detroit and so Lo and beholdPearl Jem Vetter at a concert two weeks
ago that Shelley was at. They'regood Buddies, They're Malibu Buddies, Eddie.

(01:04:00):
Shelley was at the concert, andand it was in I think it
was in Chicago. Actually he wasat a concert at the concert Pearl Jams
there Vetter's plan and all of asudden, Chelly says he looks up on
the JumboTron and he's on the JumboTron, and naturally he's gonna be on JumboTron
Chicago. Well, Vetter calls himup on stage and so they're they're talking

(01:04:21):
and which this isn't the first groupShell he's done this with, but so
they're talking and all of a sudden, on the JumboTron they're showing Shelly's jersey.
Shelly is having his jersey retired inthe Chicago Stadium in February, like
a Monday, Yeah, the twentyfour. So it's funny how that was
the one thing he wanted. That'sprobably because he listened to the podcast.

(01:04:41):
You know, everybody's listening to thepect Eddie Eddie. Vetter broke the news
to him. No, was thatthe first he'd heard of he broke.
He broke the news and he hadno idea. He goes, he goes,
I'm standing up there, and hegoes, I'm look at I'm first
time down in the you know,in the mosh pit area, and he
goes, you know, and youknow, they're showing me up here,
stuff like that, and Vetters upthere and then Vetter starts talking. After

(01:05:02):
the song. He goes, Hey, my buddy here, Christian, Hey,
Shelly, come on up on stagehere. And then they get up
there and having a little conversation.It's not a lake and then all of
a sudden they're showing his jersey andhe said, I still didn't know what's
going on. And he's the onethat broke the news to Shelly. So
anyway, and I mean, whata creative way to do it. Yeah,
Shelly talked about it the other day. Shelly was on spitt and chicklists

(01:05:23):
talking about this whole babcock thing.And also and he was talking about Chicago
fans. He goes, when Iwent to Detroit, he goes, you
know, for this first couple years, he goes, I couldn't come back
to Chicago. He said. Peoplehated me. He goes, they wanted
to get in a fight with meon the streets. They were giving ship
to my kids because but it wasthat black Hawks didn't want Shelly back.
He goes. I didn't want toleave, He goes, I just wanted
some security. I just want toand they didn't want to do that.

(01:05:45):
And they, you know, theyca hey, Shelly, we'll give you,
we'll give you another year or somethinglike that, and Shelly says,
well, you know, they didn'tdo that, and I just went on
to play another ten years in Detroit. So he says, I think they
thought my best years were behind me. And then he won another Stanley Cup
there. But but good for thembecause they ultimately went on and one three
Sentley Cups of their own black Hawksafter Chilly took off. So yeah,
anyway, you got anything else,rads or that sounds fun? Well,

(01:06:06):
we need to try and do thepodcast up there next week at the draft
or something. You got it.I'm working on Its beautiful. I'm working
on it beautiful. All right.Well there's another one in the books.
Uh, this is SuDS with Ratsand Luds. Now, we don't know
how long Rats is going to bearound. I'm sure they're going to get
the big deal done and hopefully forour sake. Hees not because you're you're

(01:06:29):
you're a book of sports knowledge readsand it's a pleasure of having you on
here. It's fun, man,it's really fun. I love it.
Thank you, brother. We'll talkto you soon.