October 14, 2024 • 24 mins
Join Bob Pickett as he uncovers the wildest stories from the iconic Broken Spoke. In this episode, you'll hear about the unforgettable night when O.J. Simpson's infamous Bronco chase captivated the crowd, leaving musicians playing to an empty dance floor. Discover the behind-the-scenes drama of the Wagoneers' second album, the unexpected twists in Charlie Robison's career, and the hilarious mishaps that only happen at the Broken Spoke. Don't miss these jaw-dropping tales that will leave you laughing and shaking your head in disbelief!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, it's Bob Thickett. We are on our way to
the legendary Broken Spoke. Come on, let's get out the
truck and head inside it. Come on, what's go inside?
(00:21):
Get ready for another tale from the Broken Spoke? All right,
you ready for more tales? Enjoy the podcast. Let's find
out about about why the second Wagoneers album didn't really
sound correctly.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh, you're gonna love this story.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And we're gonna find out some stories about Charlie Robison
as well. More tales Broken Spoke. Here it is back
with a conversation with Moss Palmetto. So when did you
quit your job at the FedEx place? Two weeks after
getting here?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
What close? I think it was like six months.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Like one of the first steady gigs we got it
was Killing the Fireballs two Hoots in Holly with Yes
Sard Chaparral and back then a band called the Shifters
that was Sean Young and Kevin Smith who plays bass
with with Willie, and they had just moved down here
from Denver, like I think a few months before we
had moved down from DC and we had this regular
(01:12):
gig at the Ritz on Sixth.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Street and completely forgotton. Yeah, that's so yeah now y
m yea.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
So we used to play there every I don't remember
it was.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I know it was a work night because the reason
I was able to transfer down here because they wanted
me to take somebody else's place unloading the FedEx plane
in the morning when I got here, which was I
had to be work at four thirty.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So I was in clubs till two o'clock.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
And you're in your twenties. You could do it back then,
except I could still ignore my alarm clock. So yeah,
it showed up late a few times, and then you know,
we kind of all figured out maybe this wasn't the
best scenario for me. So and the guy that I
worked with was super cool, was a music fan. He
used to come see us and he was like, cool, man,
you know, go do your thing.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
When was the first time you walked into the spoke?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh gosh, because I know you've played here dozens of time, yes,
a hundred times.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
I don't know if I remember who I saw here
the first time I came, but I know one of
the first times I remember playing here with MANI was
the night that O. J.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Simpson was on the run. We were standing right there
behind that bar watching the TV.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
H it was the weirdest to this day, that was
the weirdest wig I've ever picked.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Tell us about it, Well, how'd you keep the crowd's attention?
Speaker 5 (02:34):
And we didn't, well.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Live updates between songs. Let's get back. Here's a number
that lady in the front row was.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
There was a big screen TV right over there, right
there by the front door, and uh and face out
and we had.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Ex screen macdimes like thirty two inches right exactly.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
And uh, we had our norm huge crowd.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
And it wasn't a wagoneer's gig. It was a solo
gig for me.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
And this is what this was June of ninety four,
is that when that happened, you know, whenever it was
you know, and uh and he was on the run
and uh because it was California time and every.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Four dealer in the country was praying that Bronco would.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Not break down.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
And uh uh and everybody is in here, is in
the front room, and there's probably one hundred people in
the backgroom, which means, you know, like if you're at
the Continental Club, you go, man, we're having a great night.
If you're the spoke, it's like nobody's here. And I mean,
we're just that. And like it was the the Bronco
(03:46):
chase was over and the standoff in his house had happened,
and we are just figured, just you know, for God's sake,
she's shoot him. And I got a gig man, you know,
get on with it.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Let's go.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
Uh and and so, uh, we were just but we
had to start. So I asked mister White, said, what
do you want me to do, and he said, well,
it's nine o'clock, let's go. So we started picking and yeah,
I thought, well people will hear that. The music started nothing,
I mean, it was just weird and there was just
this weird, little funky mood over the thing, and uh.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
We knew when it was over.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
And then immediately hundreds of people started filing in and
somebody went, it's over. They got him and did they
shoot him? Now? I gave himself up and then we
had this huge name at this book.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
But it was so weird.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
Well, like, we never got into the rhythm of the evening.
The audience never did, and it was just people just
we weren't sure what we had just seen or not seen.
But you know, it was just uh, it was it
was just straining. But yeah, that was That's the weirdest
gig I've ever picked, and I picked some weird gigs, man,
(05:07):
But that was right.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I've been paid to go home.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yeah, Yeah, Kelly, Kelly and the boys. We were playing
after we were already signed, we had our first record out.
They booked us in some you know two step in
club somewhere out in East Texas. We played about you know,
first set of the first night. At the end of
that set, the guy came up and he said, yeah, we're.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Gonna go ahead and pay you, but you can go home.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
No crowd or what.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
No that we did.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
We just weren't playing they wanted to hear. We weren't
playing country two step. We were playing our record, which
had a lot of rock influences, and we played fast.
We were young and we had a lot of energy,
and that's not.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
What they wanted. They probably they probably had heard the single,
but you know.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
The wags we would pick those uh.
Speaker 6 (06:00):
Those country meat markets and we had I want to
knowor again, we had this shuffle hit and we would
play it and the audience would pack the dance floor.
Three hundred people pou dancing and loving it, singing along
and giving the thumbs up songs over empty dance floor.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
We're still playing shuffles, still playing.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
The same band, same beat, same album, Yeah, same singer,
and they and they had not heard it on the
radio or on CMT. And then they would just and
then and they would come up, they go play something
we know, so, you know, finally you just go, what's
(06:41):
just play the hit again? And I remember our guitarist
Brent was went, man, that's so lame. We can't play
the same song twice? I went, nothing else, we're playing
this watch it? So we would do I want an
organ that don't don't.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Like it was the first time they heard.
Speaker 6 (06:58):
It, it was like it was like Pavlovian, you know.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
And then you just go oh.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
And that was one of those gigs where we were
somebody go boys. I have seen them all come to,
you know. And then he would tell a story they
hated George his first time through. You know, you go, okay,
well good, but it was just so weird where you
have to have and what we quickly discovered, and I'm
sure y'all did too, was there would be these bands
(07:28):
that would have maybe one hit and then the rest
of the time they would play covers. They would play
Top forty covers and then their contemporary Top forty including
their own record.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Yeah, and we just went, oh, yeah, that's not well,
that's not what we did.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, Texas a little bit different than when you were
used to right, Oh yeah, I mean you know.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Oh absolutely, we learned a lot. I remember one other
gig we played Dollywood. We were in the theater there.
It was very dark, right, but you know they had
lights going up the stairs, going up either side. Lights
are there because you know, it's a lot of older folk,
and as we're playing, you could just see like you
(08:07):
can only see like the feet moving.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Out, moving out, but you could see it.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And then you see a door in the back.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Oh well, don't be discouraged by that. Let's talk about
let's talk about the early days at Charlie. Yes, how
did you How did you meet.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Charlie Charlie Robson? Is it rob Robinson? People say it
both ways?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
He said it both ways, he did, But Robinson this
is what that's what I call him. Uh, And like
Monny said, it was either he was either working the
door at the Continental Club, which we played at. I mean,
especially back then in between Kelly Records. I was playing
with three or four different bands, and most of them
played the Continental Club, so I was there several nights
a week. But he also he would play guitar with
(08:50):
Chaparale with Jeff Hughes. I don't know if he was
I can't remember if he was a regular cat or
if he was a sitting cat, but I would sit
in a lot with them at the at the the.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
Whole the wall.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
So I think I either met him on stage there
or at the count Club when he was working the door.
Speaker 6 (09:05):
And did you know him as Charlie or as Bruce's brother?
I met him Bruce's brother.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Not me.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
I met Charlie first, and then Bruce well uh so,
and then he won you know, he put a band
together and it was you know Eric Dan him at
Eddie Dale who was playing guitar for Chaperal all the time.
It was me lunch meet John Ludwig who co owns
Devil's Backbone.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
With Charlie's sister. They're married.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Uh and so we put that together and I guess
within about a year we we he paid. I guess
it was him who paid for. I don't remember who
paid for his his record at.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
I think Wayne Nagel did.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I think you absolutely to me, that's one of the
best albums.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
And then of course it changed a little bit when Columbia,
Oh yeah, got a hold of it.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
Yeah, Warner Brothers. I think Warner Brothers.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Who got it first first album? So you were on
the first.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Well no, I think you're probably thinking of the first
record he recorded up there. This was down here at
Bradley Cops House. I don't even know if it got ever. Yeah,
I mean, you know, we had cassettes.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
We had the one that had my hometown on that.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Later later, but I think he had bar Light already.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Recorded bar Light on there.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yeah, so there were some stuff that you know, he
carried on with, but uh, this was a very.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Small you know, what songs did you write on that one?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I didn't he.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
I think he got his first major cut with me
on Kelly's third record, a song called One More Night.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Great song, really really great recording.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Mike Henderson playing guitar. Who's passed away not too long.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Ago anyways, band call I think this was it called
Jellyfish singing background vocal sounds.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It was a really cool record. Don was was. It
was like they took a left turn.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
You know, Tony Brown did the first two records didn't
really get much traction, so he was like, I don't know, here,
Don was, see what you can do with it. And
you know, benmont Tenche played. It was a very different direction.
Great record. Again, didn't do anything. That was the last
record she did for MC But I didn't play on
that one. I just had a couple of cuts on it.
One I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
No, the Bruce.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I think the song I covered with Bruce was on
the second record. I can't remember with my second song
on the third record was. But anyways, that was the
last thing she recorded for MCA before she went and
did that fantastic solo record. Yeah, that which is where
she really came into her own.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
I mean, yeah, yeah, I think well, and I think
what I deserve is that's one of the best records
of it.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Of anybody, any any act.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
But you know it was, and once again you have
to like for me, it wasn't until I started as
a songwriter writing for Warner Chapel and I started writing
for Warner Brothers. There were extraordinarily successful songwriters there. I
mean guys like John Bettis who has a cut on
(12:07):
and he wrote Human Nature for Michael Jackson on Top.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Of the World for the Carpenters and what else has
he done with? Yeah exactly.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
And it was those guys that taught me. And you
know that if you have a song on the charts,
it's a hit period, and that means you're on the
top one hundred most played records out of the tens
of thousands of records that are out there. And the
(12:35):
world in which we came and the people that kind
of trained us we were there was so much focus
on where our records didn't.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Go, yeah exactly.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Like like we had a record Diet thirty six, as
like we treated that. We were taught to treat that
as a flop because there was thirty five spots away
from number one.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But that's natural, that's not Austin but I don't but yes.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
But it wasn't until I started writing for Warner Champel
Nashville that these guys went, man, that's a hit. You
know how many people aren't at number thirty six, most
of them and never will be. And they were talking
about professional songwriters. And it wasn't until I really realized
that there were so many songwriters out there that you know,
they're the king of the album cuts. Maybe they've sold
(13:22):
a bunch of million records, but they've never had a
single or anything. So it wasn't until years later where
you know, Moss and I just went, yeah, those were
hits because because you and radio know, if you have
a song at number thirty two on the charts, that
doesn't mean you're the most the thirty second most played
record in the country. What it means is in about
seven markets, you're the number one songs there, you know,
(13:46):
And that's what would be so astonishing. And we talked
to Moss when he and Kelly right on the road
is you know you'd play you play Montgomery, Alabama, and
there'd be seven people there, and then you into Birmingham.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
The show's been sold out for two weeks. We're seventy
miles down the.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
Road, different radio station, you know, exactly right, Could you
just be so wild and when you would, particularly then
you could still have not only just regional hits, but
hits from town to town.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah, it was all different back then, Oh, not crazy.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
All promotion what's the crazy craziest radio promotion you guys
ever did.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
You could talk about.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Not involving to.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
One of the coolest ones.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Well, there was I think you guys might have been
there once in in uh I think it was in Nashville.
They were doing I think it was Radio Week or
whatever they called it.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I don't even remember.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
And we were all in this you know, you go
from Florida floor in this big fancy hotel and outside
one of them was Elvis's cook doing fried peanut butter
and banana.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Remember, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you guys were there.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
Yeah, yeah, we were there and that was cool. That
was very cool.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
But there was another time we went. We we we
were flown up to Chicago.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
We got to go watch a game at Wrigley Field
on this rooftop from across the way. And it was
the night that I think it was the second championship
that the Bulls.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Won or something. We were there that night. We were
in a bar.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Brad Fordham and I were in a bar and it
was pandemonium. It was pandemonium because that last game was played.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
That was That was wild golly and I'm getting paid
for doing that.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
Right The whole thing is just and then you know
you're you're recording Austin City limits you go, well, I've
watched this at home my whole life, and now I'm
up here, and well, that's that's crazy, you know. And
and PMO, uh, you did the both of Kelly's performances
and then my solo performance, and you just go.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
And then it's wild because quickly you get not you
don't ever get used to it.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
You just go, I'm doing this now, yeah, this is
what I do, you know, And it's like like when uh,
like I have the wagon ear when we made our
second record up in Nashville, name of the album was
Good Fortune and uh and it's it just didn't click
and we and we didn't know why, and it was
just for some reason, it just didn't sound right.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
It just didn't sound good.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
And so we we came home to Austin and you know,
typical showbiz thing. You know, you're a and R guy
doesn't hear a single and we're like, you guys were
so fired up about this stuff. And then what happened
and the and they sent down the mixes and I
was up to I was up in Nashville for the mixes.
I was the only band, you know, it's my band.
(16:38):
I was only went up there for the mixes it
and it just didn't sound right. And then I came
home and then they sent down mixes for the record
and it sounded real good, but I don't know, it
just didn't sound like the Wagon Ears Tommy. And what
we found out in twenty eighteen was it wasn't the
wagon ears. It was the drummer wasn't on the album.
(16:59):
They they pulled the drummer. All of his drum tracks
were unusable because he'd had a brand new drum kit
and he hadn't wouldn't used to playing it, so his
drums sounded terrible. So he was taking off the record,
and Larry Lundon, Elvis's drummer and so many other people's
drummer was put on it. And therefore, if you're replacing
the drummers tracks, you have to replace the bass player's track.
(17:20):
So Emory Gordy, our producer, probably the greatest bass player
that ever lived or will ever live, or one of
them once again. He played bass on Hot August Night
for Neil Diamond, Burning Love for Elvis and all of
a sudden, but I was unaware that they weren't on
the record till twenty eighteen. So the Universal Fire, the
two thousand and eight Universal Fire, New York Times broke
(17:42):
that story and it said in the list of masters
that were lost and the wagon ears were on it.
And so I got in touch with the Universal people
and they said, well, we still have your track listings
and I went, okay, yeah, but do you have the
master tape? They said, we have all the mastered recording
and I said, well, yeah, I have a mastered recording too,
(18:03):
it's called a CB.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Do you have the original tapes? Then, when we have
all your track listings, I.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
Guess they didn't admit that they had lost, that the
masters had been burned up in the fire, but they
sent me the track listings and it was there reading
those track listings where I was able to read, and
I said that the guys were that the rhythm section
was taken off the record. Now, the reason why I
bring that up is, uh, it certainly made sense of
why it just didn't sound right to me because it
wasn't my band. So uh, they said, we want you
(18:32):
to go in and cut something that sounds like a hit.
And I had this chorus for this song so a
little closer, and I knew this was a hit Coors,
and but I I had had it for like two
or three months, and I couldn't go anywhere else good.
Every time I tried to write something, the precipitous drop
(18:54):
off between chorus and verse was so pronounced it it
was like it was the first time that had ever
happened to me as a songwriter, where I wrote this
one piece and I didn't realize the only thing that
had happened was I had said all I needed to say.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
It's not that I couldn't.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
Finish writing the song. I had finished writing my part
of the song, and the reason why everything else sucked
was I had nothing else to say. And that's a
common challenge and songwriting. And then you call a coll writer,
go what do you think about this? So I called
Moss I said, I said, man, there, and you know,
Kelly and Mosey, they had known that we were the label.
(19:34):
We were all struggling with the second record. It wasn't working.
The fact that it dawned on none of us that
those guys were taken off the record is astounding. No,
It's like, how could you listen to that record now
and go, that's not Tom and Craig. I mean, that's
great playing. It's Larry London and Emmy Gardy, but it's
(19:56):
so obviously Emmy Gardy, particularly on bass. But uh so
I went over to Mass and Kelly's house. You know,
they were we all y'all weren't married then, but you
were just fixing to get married. This would have been
January of eighty nine, in.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
February, little place on Warner that way.
Speaker 6 (20:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Carlyn owned anyway. And I went over
there and I said, I got this great chorus, but
you know, there was no cell phones or sending it
over us.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
I just went over and just picked it for him.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
And I mean, uh MA said, well have you thought
about going here? But don't, don't don't and and I mean.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
We wrote those verses.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
It's like literally guys wrote together. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
Yeah, And it was just because I loved his writing
and he loved my writing, and and then it was
just it was so obvious Pickett that we had written
a hit song. We didn't know if it was going
to be a hit record. I didn't know if the
label was gonna let us record it, you know where,
because I was starting to get a lot of pressure.
Just record a cover written by a Nashville writer, Just
(21:04):
go do this, Do two of those and you'll have hits.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
And then we'll be happy with this record.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
And I was like, man, that sounds fucking great, and
so literally we laid it down on a cassette tape,
went over and played it for our manager carlon Major.
She goes, well, that's better than anything you know on
this record. Thanks, thanks, you know, and we sent it
to A and M that literally fed extra cassette out,
(21:33):
and our head of an R, who's just an idiot,
and I mean just a typical ABC television Movie of
the Week record goon h called us back and said,
we love this.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
This has got to go on the record.
Speaker 6 (21:50):
This is your first single, and you can't call something
a single before you record it unless you're this idiot.
But anyway, so next thing I know, we're up in
Nashville and our producer Emmy Gordy says, I will produce
this track provided Tom the drummer, the idiot drummer that
showed up with a brand new drum kit he'd never
played before. Actually that's not true, that had never been
(22:12):
out of the box before no one had played these drums.
He said, I will produce this track provided that you
guys sound like the wagoneers. I want Tom to play
his original pearl drum kit that he played on the
first album, and I want you guys to practice like
you have something to prove, because he thought that we
didn't show up. He thought we showed up a little
(22:32):
bit like stars and not like musicians.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
And he was right.
Speaker 6 (22:36):
And so we went in the studio and we recorded
so a little closer and like they'd blocked out the
day because it was like pulling teeth to get performances
out of the Wags. And we got that thing in
three takes like we had the rest of the day
that left over also, and it was just a great song,
and the band was playing instruments we were used to playing.
And the thing was, you listened to that second album?
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Now what?
Speaker 6 (23:00):
I don't recommend it, but should you find yourself listening
to that second album?
Speaker 5 (23:04):
Now?
Speaker 6 (23:04):
There are two tracks on there that are the bands.
There's this album cut called I Can't Stay, which was
Emory found it impossible to replace those parts of the
drummer and the bass player because we'd had so many
guest players. We had Sleepy the Beef, we had Kate
and Roberts, we had all these guest players, and so
everybody was in this big room together and there was
(23:24):
too much bleed to replace it. So the two things
on this record that sound the best are It's a
Little Closer, which is the band, and I Can't Stay,
which is the band. And the other eight tracks nine
tracks are the session players playing over what. You know,
they weren't replacing what. What Emory replaced in his defense
(23:46):
was unusable, you know, the rhythm section provided performances that
were unusable. What I think they should have done was
had us go back up with their the real drum kit,
real base kit, and give us two days and we probably.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
Could have nailed it exactly.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
But what that gave us was a hit, and all
of a sudden, Moss and I it's in literally the
number one video on CMT and GAC. It was brand
new and it was their number one video and it's
on the charts.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
They printed the music.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Yeah, yeah, we had sheet music.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
My grandmother, couldn't you made it right there? That's right, oh,
my grandmother. That's how she thought that I had actually
made it. As a songwriter, you have sheet music and
we had a hit together, first song.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
We ever wrote.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
So that's our three of our conversation, landing next week
right here, our Tales have Broken Spoke.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Tales from the Broken Spoke is recorded live, but The
Broken Spoke in Austin, Texas, hosted by Country Radio Hall
of Fame broadcaster Bob Pickett and Monty Warden, recorded mixed
down and produced by Mike Rivera
Hey, it's Bob Thickett. We are on our way to
the legendary Broken Spoke. Come on, let's get out the
truck and head inside it. Come on, what's go inside?
(00:21):
Get ready for another tale from the Broken Spoke? All right,
you ready for more tales? Enjoy the podcast. Let's find
out about about why the second Wagoneers album didn't really
sound correctly.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Oh, you're gonna love this story.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
And we're gonna find out some stories about Charlie Robison
as well. More tales Broken Spoke. Here it is back
with a conversation with Moss Palmetto. So when did you
quit your job at the FedEx place? Two weeks after
getting here?
Speaker 3 (00:47):
What close? I think it was like six months.
Speaker 4 (00:50):
Like one of the first steady gigs we got it
was Killing the Fireballs two Hoots in Holly with Yes
Sard Chaparral and back then a band called the Shifters
that was Sean Young and Kevin Smith who plays bass
with with Willie, and they had just moved down here
from Denver, like I think a few months before we
had moved down from DC and we had this regular
(01:12):
gig at the Ritz on Sixth.
Speaker 5 (01:14):
Street and completely forgotton. Yeah, that's so yeah now y
m yea.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
So we used to play there every I don't remember
it was.
Speaker 4 (01:28):
I know it was a work night because the reason
I was able to transfer down here because they wanted
me to take somebody else's place unloading the FedEx plane
in the morning when I got here, which was I
had to be work at four thirty.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
So I was in clubs till two o'clock.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
And you're in your twenties. You could do it back then,
except I could still ignore my alarm clock. So yeah,
it showed up late a few times, and then you know,
we kind of all figured out maybe this wasn't the
best scenario for me. So and the guy that I
worked with was super cool, was a music fan. He
used to come see us and he was like, cool, man,
you know, go do your thing.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
When was the first time you walked into the spoke?
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Oh gosh, because I know you've played here dozens of time, yes,
a hundred times.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
I don't know if I remember who I saw here
the first time I came, but I know one of
the first times I remember playing here with MANI was
the night that O. J.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
Simpson was on the run. We were standing right there
behind that bar watching the TV.
Speaker 5 (02:24):
H it was the weirdest to this day, that was
the weirdest wig I've ever picked.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Tell us about it, Well, how'd you keep the crowd's attention?
Speaker 5 (02:34):
And we didn't, well.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Live updates between songs. Let's get back. Here's a number
that lady in the front row was.
Speaker 6 (02:44):
There was a big screen TV right over there, right
there by the front door, and uh and face out
and we had.
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Ex screen macdimes like thirty two inches right exactly.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
And uh, we had our norm huge crowd.
Speaker 5 (03:02):
And it wasn't a wagoneer's gig. It was a solo
gig for me.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
And this is what this was June of ninety four,
is that when that happened, you know, whenever it was
you know, and uh and he was on the run
and uh because it was California time and every.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Four dealer in the country was praying that Bronco would.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Not break down.
Speaker 6 (03:22):
And uh uh and everybody is in here, is in
the front room, and there's probably one hundred people in
the backgroom, which means, you know, like if you're at
the Continental Club, you go, man, we're having a great night.
If you're the spoke, it's like nobody's here. And I mean,
we're just that. And like it was the the Bronco
(03:46):
chase was over and the standoff in his house had happened,
and we are just figured, just you know, for God's sake,
she's shoot him. And I got a gig man, you know,
get on with it.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Let's go.
Speaker 6 (04:01):
Uh and and so, uh, we were just but we
had to start. So I asked mister White, said, what
do you want me to do, and he said, well,
it's nine o'clock, let's go. So we started picking and yeah,
I thought, well people will hear that. The music started nothing,
I mean, it was just weird and there was just
this weird, little funky mood over the thing, and uh.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
We knew when it was over.
Speaker 6 (04:27):
And then immediately hundreds of people started filing in and
somebody went, it's over. They got him and did they
shoot him? Now? I gave himself up and then we
had this huge name at this book.
Speaker 5 (04:42):
But it was so weird.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
Well, like, we never got into the rhythm of the evening.
The audience never did, and it was just people just
we weren't sure what we had just seen or not seen.
But you know, it was just uh, it was it
was just straining. But yeah, that was That's the weirdest
gig I've ever picked, and I picked some weird gigs, man,
(05:07):
But that was right.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
I've been paid to go home.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
Yeah, Yeah, Kelly, Kelly and the boys. We were playing
after we were already signed, we had our first record out.
They booked us in some you know two step in
club somewhere out in East Texas. We played about you know,
first set of the first night. At the end of
that set, the guy came up and he said, yeah, we're.
Speaker 3 (05:30):
Gonna go ahead and pay you, but you can go home.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
No crowd or what.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
No that we did.
Speaker 4 (05:35):
We just weren't playing they wanted to hear. We weren't
playing country two step. We were playing our record, which
had a lot of rock influences, and we played fast.
We were young and we had a lot of energy,
and that's not.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
What they wanted. They probably they probably had heard the single,
but you know.
Speaker 5 (05:56):
The wags we would pick those uh.
Speaker 6 (06:00):
Those country meat markets and we had I want to
knowor again, we had this shuffle hit and we would
play it and the audience would pack the dance floor.
Three hundred people pou dancing and loving it, singing along
and giving the thumbs up songs over empty dance floor.
Speaker 5 (06:18):
We're still playing shuffles, still playing.
Speaker 6 (06:21):
The same band, same beat, same album, Yeah, same singer,
and they and they had not heard it on the
radio or on CMT. And then they would just and
then and they would come up, they go play something
we know, so, you know, finally you just go, what's
(06:41):
just play the hit again? And I remember our guitarist
Brent was went, man, that's so lame. We can't play
the same song twice? I went, nothing else, we're playing
this watch it? So we would do I want an
organ that don't don't.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Like it was the first time they heard.
Speaker 6 (06:58):
It, it was like it was like Pavlovian, you know.
Speaker 5 (07:04):
And then you just go oh.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
And that was one of those gigs where we were
somebody go boys. I have seen them all come to,
you know. And then he would tell a story they
hated George his first time through. You know, you go, okay,
well good, but it was just so weird where you
have to have and what we quickly discovered, and I'm
sure y'all did too, was there would be these bands
(07:28):
that would have maybe one hit and then the rest
of the time they would play covers. They would play
Top forty covers and then their contemporary Top forty including
their own record.
Speaker 5 (07:38):
Yeah, and we just went, oh, yeah, that's not well,
that's not what we did.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
Yeah, Texas a little bit different than when you were
used to right, Oh yeah, I mean you know.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
Oh absolutely, we learned a lot. I remember one other
gig we played Dollywood. We were in the theater there.
It was very dark, right, but you know they had
lights going up the stairs, going up either side. Lights
are there because you know, it's a lot of older folk,
and as we're playing, you could just see like you
(08:07):
can only see like the feet moving.
Speaker 5 (08:10):
Out, moving out, but you could see it.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
And then you see a door in the back.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Oh well, don't be discouraged by that. Let's talk about
let's talk about the early days at Charlie. Yes, how
did you How did you meet.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
Charlie Charlie Robson? Is it rob Robinson? People say it
both ways?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
He said it both ways, he did, But Robinson this
is what that's what I call him. Uh, And like
Monny said, it was either he was either working the
door at the Continental Club, which we played at. I mean,
especially back then in between Kelly Records. I was playing
with three or four different bands, and most of them
played the Continental Club, so I was there several nights
a week. But he also he would play guitar with
(08:50):
Chaparale with Jeff Hughes. I don't know if he was
I can't remember if he was a regular cat or
if he was a sitting cat, but I would sit
in a lot with them at the at the the.
Speaker 5 (08:59):
Whole the wall.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
So I think I either met him on stage there
or at the count Club when he was working the door.
Speaker 6 (09:05):
And did you know him as Charlie or as Bruce's brother?
I met him Bruce's brother.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Not me.
Speaker 4 (09:09):
I met Charlie first, and then Bruce well uh so,
and then he won you know, he put a band
together and it was you know Eric Dan him at
Eddie Dale who was playing guitar for Chaperal all the time.
It was me lunch meet John Ludwig who co owns
Devil's Backbone.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
With Charlie's sister. They're married.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Uh and so we put that together and I guess
within about a year we we he paid. I guess
it was him who paid for. I don't remember who
paid for his his record at.
Speaker 5 (09:41):
I think Wayne Nagel did.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I think you're right.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I think you absolutely to me, that's one of the
best albums.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
And then of course it changed a little bit when Columbia,
Oh yeah, got a hold of it.
Speaker 5 (09:53):
Yeah, Warner Brothers. I think Warner Brothers.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Who got it first first album? So you were on
the first.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Well no, I think you're probably thinking of the first
record he recorded up there. This was down here at
Bradley Cops House. I don't even know if it got ever. Yeah,
I mean, you know, we had cassettes.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
We had the one that had my hometown on that.
Speaker 5 (10:16):
Later later, but I think he had bar Light already.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Recorded bar Light on there.
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Yeah, so there were some stuff that you know, he
carried on with, but uh, this was a very.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Small you know, what songs did you write on that one?
Speaker 3 (10:30):
I didn't he.
Speaker 4 (10:31):
I think he got his first major cut with me
on Kelly's third record, a song called One More Night.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
Great song, really really great recording.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Mike Henderson playing guitar. Who's passed away not too long.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Ago anyways, band call I think this was it called
Jellyfish singing background vocal sounds.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
It was a really cool record. Don was was. It
was like they took a left turn.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
You know, Tony Brown did the first two records didn't
really get much traction, so he was like, I don't know, here,
Don was, see what you can do with it. And
you know, benmont Tenche played. It was a very different direction.
Great record. Again, didn't do anything. That was the last
record she did for MC But I didn't play on
that one. I just had a couple of cuts on it.
One I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (11:19):
No, the Bruce.
Speaker 4 (11:19):
I think the song I covered with Bruce was on
the second record. I can't remember with my second song
on the third record was. But anyways, that was the
last thing she recorded for MCA before she went and
did that fantastic solo record. Yeah, that which is where
she really came into her own.
Speaker 6 (11:38):
I mean, yeah, yeah, I think well, and I think
what I deserve is that's one of the best records
of it.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Of anybody, any any act.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
But you know it was, and once again you have
to like for me, it wasn't until I started as
a songwriter writing for Warner Chapel and I started writing
for Warner Brothers. There were extraordinarily successful songwriters there. I
mean guys like John Bettis who has a cut on
(12:07):
and he wrote Human Nature for Michael Jackson on Top.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Of the World for the Carpenters and what else has
he done with? Yeah exactly.
Speaker 6 (12:12):
And it was those guys that taught me. And you
know that if you have a song on the charts,
it's a hit period, and that means you're on the
top one hundred most played records out of the tens
of thousands of records that are out there. And the
(12:35):
world in which we came and the people that kind
of trained us we were there was so much focus
on where our records didn't.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
Go, yeah exactly.
Speaker 6 (12:45):
Like like we had a record Diet thirty six, as
like we treated that. We were taught to treat that
as a flop because there was thirty five spots away
from number one.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
But that's natural, that's not Austin but I don't but yes.
Speaker 6 (13:01):
But it wasn't until I started writing for Warner Champel
Nashville that these guys went, man, that's a hit. You
know how many people aren't at number thirty six, most
of them and never will be. And they were talking
about professional songwriters. And it wasn't until I really realized
that there were so many songwriters out there that you know,
they're the king of the album cuts. Maybe they've sold
(13:22):
a bunch of million records, but they've never had a
single or anything. So it wasn't until years later where
you know, Moss and I just went, yeah, those were
hits because because you and radio know, if you have
a song at number thirty two on the charts, that
doesn't mean you're the most the thirty second most played
record in the country. What it means is in about
seven markets, you're the number one songs there, you know,
(13:46):
And that's what would be so astonishing. And we talked
to Moss when he and Kelly right on the road
is you know you'd play you play Montgomery, Alabama, and
there'd be seven people there, and then you into Birmingham.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
The show's been sold out for two weeks. We're seventy
miles down the.
Speaker 6 (14:05):
Road, different radio station, you know, exactly right, Could you
just be so wild and when you would, particularly then
you could still have not only just regional hits, but
hits from town to town.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Yeah, yeah, it was all different back then, Oh, not crazy.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
All promotion what's the crazy craziest radio promotion you guys
ever did.
Speaker 5 (14:25):
You could talk about.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Not involving to.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
One of the coolest ones.
Speaker 4 (14:32):
Well, there was I think you guys might have been
there once in in uh I think it was in Nashville.
They were doing I think it was Radio Week or
whatever they called it.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
I don't even remember.
Speaker 4 (14:43):
And we were all in this you know, you go
from Florida floor in this big fancy hotel and outside
one of them was Elvis's cook doing fried peanut butter
and banana.
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Remember, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you guys were there.
Speaker 5 (14:55):
Yeah, yeah, we were there and that was cool. That
was very cool.
Speaker 3 (14:58):
But there was another time we went. We we we
were flown up to Chicago.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
We got to go watch a game at Wrigley Field
on this rooftop from across the way. And it was
the night that I think it was the second championship
that the Bulls.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Won or something. We were there that night. We were
in a bar.
Speaker 4 (15:14):
Brad Fordham and I were in a bar and it
was pandemonium. It was pandemonium because that last game was played.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
That was That was wild golly and I'm getting paid
for doing that.
Speaker 6 (15:25):
Right The whole thing is just and then you know
you're you're recording Austin City limits you go, well, I've
watched this at home my whole life, and now I'm
up here, and well, that's that's crazy, you know. And
and PMO, uh, you did the both of Kelly's performances
and then my solo performance, and you just go.
Speaker 5 (15:46):
And then it's wild because quickly you get not you
don't ever get used to it.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
You just go, I'm doing this now, yeah, this is
what I do, you know, And it's like like when uh,
like I have the wagon ear when we made our
second record up in Nashville, name of the album was
Good Fortune and uh and it's it just didn't click
and we and we didn't know why, and it was
just for some reason, it just didn't sound right.
Speaker 5 (16:14):
It just didn't sound good.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
And so we we came home to Austin and you know,
typical showbiz thing. You know, you're a and R guy
doesn't hear a single and we're like, you guys were
so fired up about this stuff. And then what happened
and the and they sent down the mixes and I
was up to I was up in Nashville for the mixes.
I was the only band, you know, it's my band.
(16:38):
I was only went up there for the mixes it
and it just didn't sound right. And then I came
home and then they sent down mixes for the record
and it sounded real good, but I don't know, it
just didn't sound like the Wagon Ears Tommy. And what
we found out in twenty eighteen was it wasn't the
wagon ears. It was the drummer wasn't on the album.
(16:59):
They they pulled the drummer. All of his drum tracks
were unusable because he'd had a brand new drum kit
and he hadn't wouldn't used to playing it, so his
drums sounded terrible. So he was taking off the record,
and Larry Lundon, Elvis's drummer and so many other people's
drummer was put on it. And therefore, if you're replacing
the drummers tracks, you have to replace the bass player's track.
(17:20):
So Emory Gordy, our producer, probably the greatest bass player
that ever lived or will ever live, or one of
them once again. He played bass on Hot August Night
for Neil Diamond, Burning Love for Elvis and all of
a sudden, but I was unaware that they weren't on
the record till twenty eighteen. So the Universal Fire, the
two thousand and eight Universal Fire, New York Times broke
(17:42):
that story and it said in the list of masters
that were lost and the wagon ears were on it.
And so I got in touch with the Universal people
and they said, well, we still have your track listings
and I went, okay, yeah, but do you have the
master tape? They said, we have all the mastered recording
and I said, well, yeah, I have a mastered recording too,
(18:03):
it's called a CB.
Speaker 5 (18:04):
Do you have the original tapes? Then, when we have
all your track listings, I.
Speaker 6 (18:09):
Guess they didn't admit that they had lost, that the
masters had been burned up in the fire, but they
sent me the track listings and it was there reading
those track listings where I was able to read, and
I said that the guys were that the rhythm section
was taken off the record. Now, the reason why I
bring that up is, uh, it certainly made sense of
why it just didn't sound right to me because it
wasn't my band. So uh, they said, we want you
(18:32):
to go in and cut something that sounds like a hit.
And I had this chorus for this song so a
little closer, and I knew this was a hit Coors,
and but I I had had it for like two
or three months, and I couldn't go anywhere else good.
Every time I tried to write something, the precipitous drop
(18:54):
off between chorus and verse was so pronounced it it
was like it was the first time that had ever
happened to me as a songwriter, where I wrote this
one piece and I didn't realize the only thing that
had happened was I had said all I needed to say.
Speaker 5 (19:11):
It's not that I couldn't.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
Finish writing the song. I had finished writing my part
of the song, and the reason why everything else sucked
was I had nothing else to say. And that's a
common challenge and songwriting. And then you call a coll writer,
go what do you think about this? So I called
Moss I said, I said, man, there, and you know,
Kelly and Mosey, they had known that we were the label.
(19:34):
We were all struggling with the second record. It wasn't working.
The fact that it dawned on none of us that
those guys were taken off the record is astounding. No,
It's like, how could you listen to that record now
and go, that's not Tom and Craig. I mean, that's
great playing. It's Larry London and Emmy Gardy, but it's
(19:56):
so obviously Emmy Gardy, particularly on bass. But uh so
I went over to Mass and Kelly's house. You know,
they were we all y'all weren't married then, but you
were just fixing to get married. This would have been
January of eighty nine, in.
Speaker 3 (20:11):
February, little place on Warner that way.
Speaker 6 (20:16):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Carlyn owned anyway. And I went over
there and I said, I got this great chorus, but
you know, there was no cell phones or sending it
over us.
Speaker 5 (20:25):
I just went over and just picked it for him.
Speaker 6 (20:28):
And I mean, uh MA said, well have you thought
about going here? But don't, don't don't and and I mean.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
We wrote those verses.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
It's like literally guys wrote together. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (20:40):
Yeah, And it was just because I loved his writing
and he loved my writing, and and then it was
just it was so obvious Pickett that we had written
a hit song. We didn't know if it was going
to be a hit record. I didn't know if the
label was gonna let us record it, you know where,
because I was starting to get a lot of pressure.
Just record a cover written by a Nashville writer, Just
(21:04):
go do this, Do two of those and you'll have hits.
Speaker 5 (21:07):
And then we'll be happy with this record.
Speaker 6 (21:10):
And I was like, man, that sounds fucking great, and
so literally we laid it down on a cassette tape,
went over and played it for our manager carlon Major.
She goes, well, that's better than anything you know on
this record. Thanks, thanks, you know, and we sent it
to A and M that literally fed extra cassette out,
(21:33):
and our head of an R, who's just an idiot,
and I mean just a typical ABC television Movie of
the Week record goon h called us back and said,
we love this.
Speaker 5 (21:48):
This has got to go on the record.
Speaker 6 (21:50):
This is your first single, and you can't call something
a single before you record it unless you're this idiot.
But anyway, so next thing I know, we're up in
Nashville and our producer Emmy Gordy says, I will produce
this track provided Tom the drummer, the idiot drummer that
showed up with a brand new drum kit he'd never
played before. Actually that's not true, that had never been
(22:12):
out of the box before no one had played these drums.
He said, I will produce this track provided that you
guys sound like the wagoneers. I want Tom to play
his original pearl drum kit that he played on the
first album, and I want you guys to practice like
you have something to prove, because he thought that we
didn't show up. He thought we showed up a little
(22:32):
bit like stars and not like musicians.
Speaker 5 (22:35):
And he was right.
Speaker 6 (22:36):
And so we went in the studio and we recorded
so a little closer and like they'd blocked out the
day because it was like pulling teeth to get performances
out of the Wags. And we got that thing in
three takes like we had the rest of the day
that left over also, and it was just a great song,
and the band was playing instruments we were used to playing.
And the thing was, you listened to that second album?
Speaker 5 (22:59):
Now what?
Speaker 6 (23:00):
I don't recommend it, but should you find yourself listening
to that second album?
Speaker 5 (23:04):
Now?
Speaker 6 (23:04):
There are two tracks on there that are the bands.
There's this album cut called I Can't Stay, which was
Emory found it impossible to replace those parts of the
drummer and the bass player because we'd had so many
guest players. We had Sleepy the Beef, we had Kate
and Roberts, we had all these guest players, and so
everybody was in this big room together and there was
(23:24):
too much bleed to replace it. So the two things
on this record that sound the best are It's a
Little Closer, which is the band, and I Can't Stay,
which is the band. And the other eight tracks nine
tracks are the session players playing over what. You know,
they weren't replacing what. What Emory replaced in his defense
(23:46):
was unusable, you know, the rhythm section provided performances that
were unusable. What I think they should have done was
had us go back up with their the real drum kit,
real base kit, and give us two days and we probably.
Speaker 5 (24:02):
Could have nailed it exactly.
Speaker 6 (24:04):
But what that gave us was a hit, and all
of a sudden, Moss and I it's in literally the
number one video on CMT and GAC. It was brand
new and it was their number one video and it's
on the charts.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
They printed the music.
Speaker 5 (24:20):
Yeah, yeah, we had sheet music.
Speaker 6 (24:22):
My grandmother, couldn't you made it right there? That's right, oh,
my grandmother. That's how she thought that I had actually
made it. As a songwriter, you have sheet music and
we had a hit together, first song.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
We ever wrote.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
So that's our three of our conversation, landing next week
right here, our Tales have Broken Spoke.
Speaker 4 (24:41):
Tales from the Broken Spoke is recorded live, but The
Broken Spoke in Austin, Texas, hosted by Country Radio Hall
of Fame broadcaster Bob Pickett and Monty Warden, recorded mixed
down and produced by Mike Rivera
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