November 9, 2023 • 42 mins
Episode 78: Deborah Kasdan
Author and Mental Health Advocate Deborah Kasdan is here to Tell Us The Truth about her new book : ROLL BACK THE WORLD: A Sister’s Memoir . Hear Deborah open up about
*You can Subscribe to Tell Us The Truth on all leading podcast apps including the iHeart Radio App, Spreaker and iTunes/Apple Podcasts. Join us on Facebook and Twitter for daily discussion about top news.*
Author and Mental Health Advocate Deborah Kasdan is here to Tell Us The Truth about her new book : ROLL BACK THE WORLD: A Sister’s Memoir . Hear Deborah open up about
- How the entire family dealt with her Sister's chronic mental illness.
- Deborah deciding to get therapy before writing the book
- How mental health advocacy has provided an outlet for Deborah, her Husband and her Father
- Religion helping her sister's final moments end in a more positive manner
- Much more
*You can Subscribe to Tell Us The Truth on all leading podcast apps including the iHeart Radio App, Spreaker and iTunes/Apple Podcasts. Join us on Facebook and Twitter for daily discussion about top news.*
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
In this edition it Tells the Truthpodcast, we are talking mental health with
author deb Kasten. We've just releaseda new book entitled roll Back the World,
A Sister's Memoir. My name isE. Duke Bennett and this is
tell Us the Truth. Hello,I'm Deborah Casten, and I'm here to
(00:28):
tell you the Truth about my newbook, roll Back the World, A
Sister's Memoir. This is my firstbook, and it's written from a place
of both love and sorrow and thehope that others who find themselves in similarly
tragic situations won't feel so alone,even if they can't help their family member,
(00:54):
because sometimes family love is not enough, and it takes a community to
treat and support a person with severemental illness. Well, Deborah, thank
you for joining us here and tellUs the Truth. And I got to
tell you it is just refreshing toread about an experience that I think we
(01:15):
all can relate to, you know, whether personally or just within our families.
Here. Mental illness is something thatwe're all touched by in some way,
shape or form, and yet Idon't think we talk about it enough.
So the fact that you are ableto tell your family's story it's just
fantastic because I believe that it isopening up discussion and hopefully others will share
(01:41):
their stories and let people know that, you know, we're not alone out
there. So again, thank youfor that. Thank you. How does
it feel when someone says something likethat to you, I mean, legitimately,
thank you for putting out into theworld something that we don't normally talk
about. Thank you for articulating whatknow, we wish we could, but
we really feel as a stigma becauseof that we can't. Yeah, it's
(02:05):
very moving because when my sister died, I felt I had a mission.
I just felt I had to writea book. It just came over me,
and I had been silent for solong, and I just felt that
it was time to break the silence. I think that's a phrase they use
in some other areas, but Ijust felt it was a time to speak
(02:30):
out and let people know what it'slike, what Rachel's life was like,
because she was an unusual person anda courageous person, what it was like
for me and our family. Andso I got going on trying to write
it, and it was difficult.It wasn't easy. Tell me about the
(02:53):
process you had to go through inorder to muster up the courage to even,
you know, not only write thisbook, but put it out for
the world to see and analyze andform their own opinions about. Did you
have to go through any kind oftherapy or what have you? Yeah,
well I did have a therapist whohelped me get through the emotional parts and
(03:15):
you know, cry in her officeabout it, so emotionally that was very
important. I don't think I couldhave done it without that. I had
a lot of support from my husband, my family, and even from my
mother who was living with me atthe time. Although she didn't want to
know the details, she was gladI was writing about a book. So
(03:38):
yeah, I did need a lotof emotional support. And then I needed
support. I found support from otherwriters very useful. I joined workshops,
and that was invaluable because once youread something aloud, you know, and
people don't run screaming from the room, and you know, say that they
(03:59):
were very moved by it, thenthat gives that gave me much more encouragement
to keep going. So those twothings, No, dev we live at
a time where from a technological standpoint, this is the most advanced period and
known human existence, right, youknow, just with a few key strokes
at the at your fingertips there youcan travel around the world and learn about
(04:23):
anything and everything. And yet,unfortunately, we live in a society in
which people will record instances of othershaving, you know, mental breakdowns and
put it out there, and someeven poke fun at stuff like that.
That's really disturbing to hear because onething that just boil makes my blood boil
(04:49):
is hearing oh, in the articlesabout what to do with homeless people,
the mentally ill homeless people, whoare about thirty percent of that popula,
by the way, you know,you see comments, oh, just lock
them up. They're a nuisance,you know, they disturb my quality of
life. Well, you know,they deserve equality of life too, their
(05:12):
people, and so, you know, I wanted to speak out and say,
look, those people who you're laughingat or just want to get out
of the way. They have families, they have passed, they have hopes,
they have dreams, and they wanttheir lives you know, to be
under their control, despite what youmay think about them when you see them.
(05:36):
So yeah, I want people toknow that there are wonderful people who
they may not recognize behind some ofthe symptoms of mental illness wonderful people and
you know someone's loved one. Let'scall it what it is, right And
again, I don't think any anyof us in the world is not touched
(05:58):
by this or have some kind ofexperience with challenges of mental health, whether
on a personal or you know,family members. What have you talk to
me about your family dynamic in thatregard, because like you said, you
can't just turn a blind eye orquote unquote step over people would have you,
especially when they're part of your family. I mean, that's not love.
(06:21):
Talk to me about the dynamic andthe different challenges for everyone who were
close to the action there. Wewere four siblings and when Rachel needed help,
I was away of college, mybrother was on his way to college,
(06:42):
so two of us were out ofthe pact that we're really had one
foot out of the house. Myparents were left to deal with it,
and they wanted to protect us.So you know, their attitude was,
you go live your lives, willtake care of this. So you know,
in a way, you know thatyou know that's a worthy goal,
(07:05):
but it kind of has a,you know, another side to it,
and that it causes problems later whenwhen the whole family hasn't been involved in
what's happening. I mean, theydidn't keep it a secret, but they
said, we're going to take careof it. You just concentrate on your
(07:25):
lives, and I did, andI think one of the results of it
was that there was so much stressin the family because the treatments that she
got in the hospital were not helpingher very much. They just seemed to
make her worse. And she wasstill rebellious and just you know, running
(07:47):
off whenever she could, and myfather would have to go get her,
and my mother had her own ideas. So there was a lot of stress
in the family. But I wasaway of college. Then I got married
quite young and had children quite youngbased on today's standards, so I was
(08:07):
able to compartmentalize this issue. Iwould get updates, I would talk to
my mother, but my father andI would trust them. And when Rachel
was away, I would write.I would send her books. She always
sended me books. But I ledmy life in a I think, in
a compartmentalized way. And I movedaway. I moved far far from her,
(08:35):
and then she moved away. I'dgo through the book. There was
a lot of distancing geographically as wellas emotionally back and forth. So it
was this compartmentalizing I think that allowedme to cont focus on my family,
focus on my career, on mymarriage, while my parents struggled with the
(08:56):
decisions until my brother came up withan idea because things obviously hadn't helped her
for fifteen years, and then wehad a family, a big family pow
wow, attempted another solution, andthen more events resulted from that. But
(09:20):
still, you know, it washard, and I think I suffered a
little bit from this compartmentalizing, andyou know, I had periods of depression
because I was so hopeless. Itfelt helpless to do anything. So writing
this book was a way of dealingwith that, breaking down those walls that
(09:45):
I had built in myself, Andin that way it was kind of cathartic,
and I was able to get closeto her in ways that I hadn't
been before, because she was apoet and she loved creative writing, and
I was all in my writing wasas we discussed before business and technical and
in writing this book and including herpoetry, I felt we kind of came
(10:11):
together in a nice, in avery satisfying way for me. Talk to
me about advocacy in what role thatplayed in the family dynamic here, because
you really touched upon that in thebook and I thought it was interesting,
especially as it relates to your father. Right. Yeah, my father immediately
(10:31):
became an advocate. That was hisprofession. He was a social worker by
profession, and he didn't do therapy, but he did a community you know,
kind of community social work, andhe started meeting with other parents,
He found other parents of schizophrenic youngadults, and he formed an organization in
(10:58):
Saint Louis. And then that whenthe National Alliance a Mental Illness was being
founded, he got involved and helpedwith the original founding of that, and
then became very active in the SaintLouis which is a very large nomine organization.
And you know, he proposed researchand uh, he wrote letters to
(11:22):
newspapers. When a lot of publicityabout the abuses in the Saint Louis State
hospitals, he sued the federal governmentfor better care. So he was he
was he was an advocate. Imean, he he sued the state and
it went to federal court. ThenI married an advocate. My husband was
(11:50):
a big advocate for mental health.He was a social worker also before he
retired, and he he had profor people like Rachel. But h and
he and I was very close tohis work, you know, we talked
about it a lot. Unfortunately,we did not think Rachel would make it
(12:13):
living you know, near us andgoing to that to one of his programs,
because she was really so severely impaired. But you know, I kind
of split that off, you knowsometimes. So he was doing the advocacy
for years and years, and youknow, I was doing my business and
technology writing. As as I beganto do research for this book, I
(12:39):
became more aware of different different groups. I got involved with the local chapter
of not of NOMI National Alliance,and I was on their board for a
while. I've also become recently involvedwith another organization that advocates for alternatives to
(13:07):
medication. Medication may be part ofa treatment, but they're looking at alternatives
for a the heavily medicalized approach tomental illness that we see today in favor
of psychological and social treatments. Uh. And there are there are very much
(13:31):
against course treatment. As you know, you may know that's a that's an
issue now whether or not, sayyou force a psychological a disturbed person off
of the street, force them intothe hospital, force them into treatment if
they're not a danger to themselves orothers. Of course, So so I'm
(13:54):
very interested in doing more to prevent, course, treat you know, deb
and reading along, I learned anew word because of you. Yeah,
epigenetics. Epigenetics. Yeah. WhenRachel died, you know, I said
I had a mission, but Ialso had a history a mystery on my
(14:15):
hands, and I wanted to findout why what happened to Rachel and what
really happened and why? And Idid a lot of digging into information,
and I had cartons of letters andfamily documents that I found in my mom's
(14:37):
basement when we moved her out ofour house, and I went through everything
to try to find out, uh, you know what, you know,
what was going on in the family, what was our history? You know,
I've done all kinds of geneological research. I've got I got cartons of
(14:58):
records from the hospital she was in, and I read a lot, uh
and I did you know, Iread about and I took courses and epigenetics,
I realize is about a person's historyin terms and that history relative to
(15:18):
the environment they are in, sothat when a woman is pregnant and in
a lot of stress, you know, there are hormones that affect the development
the stress armons that can affect thedevelopment of the baby. So that even
though the genetic code itself has notchanged the expression of the of the genes,
(15:43):
So people may have genes that mayor may not contribute to schizophrenia,
but they may not be they maynot go into action, they may not
be expressed. But these stress factors, you know, shortly before birth or
even yeah, shortly before birth,they can sometimes cause these these genes to
(16:11):
come into action later in life,like in the lateeens or twenties. So
that's one area people look at interms of schizophrena risk factors. So to
do that, I went into thehistory in my family and before Rachel was
(16:33):
born and my parents were newlyweds innineteen forty one, and right after they
got married the draft for World Wartwo. My dad had to go overseas
and fight, and my mother wentto live with his family, and it
(16:56):
was very stressful because they didn't getalong so well, and she had a
baby and a husband fighting overseas,and he came back and they had to
start a new family and he hadto start his career and it was very
stressful. So these are the kindof thing of factors that may make a
(17:19):
predisposition to an illness like schizophrenia becomeactive in later life. So that's epigenetics.
Talk to me about the institutionalization becausethat's a mouthful so to speak there,
but it's something that you touch uponin the book as well. Now,
(17:40):
when Rachel was first institutionalized, deinstitutionalization was a big deal and the
hospitals were emptying out and sending peopleto boarding houses and halfway houses or wherever
they could find a place for them. And this resulted in the well known
(18:02):
revolving door because that didn't work either, and you know, people were back
in the hospital. So the ideaof deinstitutionalization was that there would be community
community treatment where people could recover,get assisted, assisted housing, outpatient treatment.
(18:26):
And this idea came was first startedunder President Kennedy, who had an
interest in this area because of hisdisabled sister. But the funding for the
community programs started to be cut duringthe Reagan areas, and that was cut
and cut and cut. So thereso the programs are sparse, but ideally
(18:52):
a person can come out of ahospital, find a good place to live
with the help of an agency thatfinds subsidized subsidized housing and puts case workers
into their lives so to make surethat they you know, that they can
(19:14):
live appropriately, be good tenants,uh and take care of themselves. So
they have people to to coach peoplethrough through adapting, to readaptation to community
life. And they need a placeto live, They need a social uh,
(19:36):
they need social interaction. There's amovement called clubhouses which is started by
Fountain House in New York City wherepeople can interact with with with others and
they need a purpose in life,whether it's going to school, job or
For my sister, it was writingpoetry and and there was one one person
(20:00):
in her life who was able tomake that work for her. And that's
something I write about. That wasout in Oregon and a very creative and
compassionate social worker was able to gether out of the hospital. By then
she was not going in and outand anymore they were prepared to keep her.
(20:23):
But he knew that it was inhumaneand that she shouldn't be there,
and he saw through her disabilities andhe saw the poet inside her, and
he just made it happen. Soa place to live, people to socialize
with. My sister was never thatsocial, but at the end of her
(20:45):
life there was a remarkable sequence ofevents that led her back to people she
could relate to, and she wasable to have that type of recovery to
an extent at the end of herlife. Eventually, your sister Rachel found
her way to religion, right right, Yeah, we're Jewish, and she
(21:10):
was Jewish, although for years Ithought she was going to When I used
to visit her when she was outwest, she talked about becoming about the
religion of the Native American and shewas intrigued with that. She was sometimes
Christian when she went to the SalvationArmy because they have wonderful shelters. She
talked a lot about Christianity. SoI didn't think she was too interested in
Judaism, you know, But Ifound in a letter that she wrote to
(21:34):
my mother, she asked her abouther Jewish practice. She asked her what
she thought of different things in Judaism. And then I put it together.
Even as I was writing this bookwith the fact that she did go to
find her way to a synagogue,and that social worker I told you told
you about, the one who helpedher so much, said, oh,
(21:56):
yes, she was always on herown. She didn't want me to get
involved with helping her. She wouldgo and there's something in there's a Yiddish
word of bshterit, meaning that somethingwas faded. It turned out I found
out later that the synagogue that shefound her way to had recently had a
(22:19):
rabbi who was quite an activist,who was very progressive, especially in things
like Jewish Arab relations, which wasvery as it is not very difficult,
and he took some actions that werevery controversial. The woman who told me
about Rachel's return said, if hewas still there, he had just left
(22:45):
when Rachel was there, he wouldhave taken Rachel home and had her over
for dinner. But his name,when I heard his name, I was
shocked. He went to our tothe same high school at Rachel and I
did, which was like two milesaway from where the synagogue was, and
he was in the year between us, right between our years in high school.
(23:07):
He was a famous football player onthe team, but he became a
rabbi, a very progressive rabbi,and so that synagogue was a place where
the women uh uh reached out toher. When she first came. Uh
she you know, they had togo into a bigger room because she had
(23:27):
body owed her, you know,one of the one of the behaviors disturbing
behaviors of severely men, real people'slack of hygiene. They told her,
if well, we'd love to includeyou when our services. This was a
what they call women's minion, andthey had their own services, but if
(23:49):
you want to be included in ourwe have a small room, so please,
you know, take a shower beforeyou come. And she did come
again, and she was cleaned out, smelled, dressed nicely, smell.
And she did this all on herown, and they they honored her.
(24:11):
Shortly before she died, they honoredher and gave her the honor of coming
up to what they call the Beama, the the pedestal where you read read
the pairs, and and she recitedthe paris just an incredible story, you
know, from the beginning to theend here and it's it's all real,
(24:33):
it's all relatable. And this iswhy folks I definitely encourage you to check
out Roll Back the World, TheSister's Memoir. I mean, it's again
the subject of mental health and mentalillness. You know, the idea that
it's something that everyone can relate to, whether personally or you know, you
(24:55):
see it in your family, whathave you. And yet it's something that
we don't talk about enough. Soagain, the fact that Deb dug so
deep and covered this not just aboutherself personally told her sister's story and also
told how it affected everybody within thefamily. And it's just it's amazing,
so many layers to it, evenall the way to the end of our
sister finding a way back to religionand how that helped assist and kind of
(25:22):
ending this story, so to speak, in a positive manner while her sister
was still living. So that's it'sjust fascinating. Uh. What's the best
way that folks can grab a copyof the book? So, yeah,
go online to any of the storesthe online stories you use, Amazon,
Bonds and Noble Book Bookshop or youcan and you can order there, or
(25:44):
you can go into your bricks andmortars store. If they don't have it
in stock yet, you can askthem to order it. You can go
to my website, Deborahcasting dot comand there are links to the online stores,
and I welcome you to visit meat the website. You know,
(26:06):
deb Before I let you go,I got to ask this question here because
I think it's really the most importantquestion for me. What do you hope
readers gain from reading this incredible bookhere, Roll Back the World, a
sister's memoir. What do you hopepeople walk away with? Well, I
want them to learn how a personcan be marginalized and then brought back into
(26:30):
community, and to understand that family, how much families go through, and
trying to help people with severe mentalillness, and to support initiatives in your
communities that involve recovery and community mentalhealth programs, because that's what's going to
(26:51):
make a big difference. You know, that's a subject that is just something
that we don't speak enough about,and if we do, it's it's always
very surface level stuff. And youknow, it's refreshing to hear from someone
like Debra Casten who she experienced it. She did what she had to do
(27:11):
in order to get herself prepared,and then she wrote an incredible memoir about
it. You know, her sister'smemoir Rolled Back the World, and again
when you provide information from all thedifferent perspectives, you know, the siblings,
the sister who's living with the mentalillness, the parents and how everyone
(27:33):
was affected by it, and thengoing deeper speaking to people who her sister
had relationships with that were completely outsideof the family, all the way down
to you know, the final momentsof her life and how she found her
way back to religion and how thathelped, and just it's amazing. It's
(27:53):
amazing, and it gives a lotof great perspective there and absolutely something that
I recommend people check out because it'smaybe that'll open the door for different types
of conversations for you to have inyour social circles and your family circle.
Never know, all right, Soonce again, Roll Back the World A
Sister's Memoir. It's out. Definitelyencourage everyone to grab a copy of that
(28:18):
book. Worth it. You know, folks, there's so much that's been
going on around the world, andI'd be remiss if I had not touch
upon some of this stuff. Youknow, specifically, we have the conflict
that's going on between Israel and Palestine. Now some people calling it a war,
(28:42):
some people calling it a genocide.Some people are taking offense if you
call it a war, if youcall it a genocide. Listen, here's
what I know. Innocent lives arebeing snatched from us out there, right.
I don't care who you support,I don't care what your personal feelings
(29:06):
are. Innocent lives are being lost. That's clear, and it's clear that
neither side of the conflict. Idon't feel there doing enough about that.
You know, if two parties wantto engage in any kind of battle,
(29:26):
okay, But when you start puttinginnocent people in the middle of it,
and they're the ones that have tolose it all and even the aftermath,
whoever's left over, how many lovedones did they lose, They're losing property,
they're losing you know, it's justcrazy. It's completely crazy. And
in future episodes, we're definitely goingto have some folks come on and discuss
(29:49):
it, some folks who are goingto be supportive of Israel's stance and how
they're going about things, and somepeople are going to be supportive of of
Palestine's stance and how they're going aboutthings. And I'm just going to put
it out there right, and asalways, this tell us the truth.
(30:10):
So it's not always going to beneat or cute, but it is going
to be raw, it's going tobe real. It's going to be the
truth. And then we'll leave itup to you to feel how you want
to feel about it. But aheadof the game here, I'm going to
make it very clear. I donot support murdering innocent people. It's just
(30:34):
crazy to me. And it's easyfor me to speak out and say whatever
I have to say. You know, in my nice, little, cushy
United States of America, which isfar from perfect, right, but we're
safe here. We generally don't fightwars on our soil, so it's easy
(30:55):
for me to say whatever I haveto say. But I'm going to say
something. That's the whole point ofhaving this platform. Right. If you
are someone who believes in our constitution, if you're someone who's religious and you
believe in the Golden Rule, Ijust don't understand how you could ever advocate
(31:18):
for taking innocent lives. That's justcrazy to me, And even in the
rhetoric you should lead with, inmy opinion, I don't support taking innocent
lives. It's as simple as that, and so many people want to force
everyone to take a side, andyou know you're seeing it, and this
(31:42):
is part of our culture now,right where if you don't respond in the
perfect, eloquent, exactly the waythat I want you to respond manner right
now in the moment, even thoughI even may change my perspective, right
but in the moment, if youdon't respond exactly the way that I want
(32:04):
you to respond, exactly the waythat I feel that I need you to
respond, then you're part of theproblem. This is how people are acting
about this, and I just don'tthink that's reasonable. In fact, I
think that's that's completely ridiculous because thereality of situation is there's a lot of
ignorance out there and no one knowswhere to turn in order to get a
(32:27):
clear picture. And just because youtell me, listen to me, I
know what I'm talking about. I'mthe one who can educate the masses and
what have you. Okay, Well, everyone's saying that, so how do
I know where to get the rightinformation from? Right, Well, there's
no excuse for ignorance, Okay,sure, But in the meantime, while
(32:51):
I'm trying to get educated and lookaround and listen and try to gather my
facts. Don't expect me to comeout with some major groundbreaking statement or draw
this line in the sand that's deepand dark and saying I'm on one side
or another. No, here's theside and one I'm on the side of
don't kill innocent people. That's it. That's it, simple as that,
(33:15):
And that's probably going to piss offeveryone. And that's okay, because at
the end of the day, Idon't see how history is going to be
unkind to those of us who aremaking it clear, don't kill innocent people.
I think our government here in theUnited States has had a very strange
response to all of this. Onone hand, yes, Israel is our
(33:37):
ally and you support your allies becausethey support us, right, so that's
what you do. But on theother hand, I don't feel they've been
aggressive enough about exclaiming, hey,don't kill innocent people. That took time,
right. You got folks saying they'regoing to annihilate and everyone who's over
(34:00):
on the other side they're part ofthe problem, and etc. Et cetera.
We can't support that kind of rhetoric, regardless of who it's coming from.
And the complexity of the fact thatthat Palestine currently their government is being
controlled by an organization Hamast the UnitedStates has deemed a terrorist organization. That
(34:23):
just completely complicates everything, right,because your government can be your government.
And I'm gonna just lay a pictureout here for you for those of you
who like to play bloods versus crips, you know, Republican versus Democrat.
You know that we go through cycles. One moment the Democrats in power,
(34:43):
the next moment the Republican's empower.It's just the way it is throughout my
entire life. That's how it's been, right, we go through cycles.
It's the red team of the blueteam. Can you imagine being deemed the
enemy because the government, political partythat's in power, in charge of your
government, they are the ones conducting, you know, whatever business they're out
(35:07):
there conducting and doing whatever they're doing. But you're going to be labeled as
part of the problem because of that, Right, that's ridiculous. I certainly
don't want to be blamed for anythingthat comes out of the mouth of any
president that we've ever had. Idon't care what political party they belong to,
(35:28):
or any government official for that matter. Right, So, to think
that we would just blankantly label anentire nation of people. I don't know
about that. There's something wrong aboutthat to me, because logic dictates that
there's a lot of innocent people andthat who are going to be putting harm's
(35:50):
way as a result of that.And more recently, you know, we
were hearing from President Biden, who'sstarting to say, hey, we have
to find a way to help peopleand get them out of the conflict and
etcetera, etcetera, you know,saving us and life. He's finally saying
that. But I was a littleslow to the to the point there in
(36:13):
the very beginning it was, yeah, we support any kind of reaction whatever.
You I don't know. I don'tjust boy, And even in me
saying all of this, I knowit's not the most eloquent thing to say,
right, And I know that there'sdefinitely gonna be some people who are
going to be pissed off about it. I just I don't believe in killing
(36:36):
us in people, man, That'sjust it, you know. And I
do believe that saying that you're goingto annihilate an entire nation of people,
that's a little much. That's alittle much, right, and I think
(36:57):
that I don't care if you're myfriend or not. I'm going to tell
you when I feel like you're goingtoo far, and I'm certainly not going
to encourage you to continue to gotoo far because where you know now,
it makes us no better than anyonethat we claim that we're fighting against.
Right, you see a lot ofprotests happening around the nation, and including
(37:21):
Jewish people who are protesting against Israel'sresponse and saying, hey, not in
my name, don't say that you'rerepresenting me when you're going out and you're
doing things that you're doing. Idon't know. There are a lot of
Palestinians doing the same thing. Right, they don't be held accountable for Hamas
(37:43):
Right, Innocent people are caught inthe middle of this thing. That's their
properties being destroyed, that's their livesbeing lost, it's their loved ones being
lost. Here, we got totake a sober look at this stuff and
make sure that we're not supporting thethings, the actions that we claim to
(38:07):
be against. How many times havewe sat here and we've thought about things
that have happened throughout the history ofthe world, and you say to yourself,
man, how could we let thathappen? Oh man, I can't
even imagine that. Well, thisis how this is exactly how So I
(38:30):
don't know. Like I said,we will have people who are far more
eloquent and are more well read andexperts on all of this geopolitical stuff,
and they'll be able to talk aboutit and you know, free from my
spin. I just know that myside is with the innocent people. I
don't care if they're from Israel,Palestine, from the Moon. If you're
(38:57):
not someone who is actively out theretrying to take other people's lives or what
have you, then you should notbe caught in the middle of something like
this, and you certainly shouldn't harmshouldn't be done to you. It's crazy
to me. So that's my stancefor anyone who has requested it, and
there's been a lot, you know, folks definitely want an episode or episodes
(39:22):
from this program about this, becauseyou know, I don't try to get
in the way of what my guestsare saying. He's not going to do
that, you know, tell usthe truth. It's not just a name,
it's it's legitimately the way we dothings here. So something uponder,
(39:42):
something to sit on there, boy, and my heart goes out to everybody
who is affected by this, becauseit's it's definitely affecting a lot of relationships,
and it's just the next progression ofeverything. You know, when we
had all of the Black Lives Matterprotesting, when we had the women's rights
(40:07):
the more recent women's rights protesting,going all the way back to occupy,
you know, the Arab Spring.You start really going through all these different
things that are happening around the nationand around the world, and you realize
that there is a culture of activism, and thank goodness for that. There
(40:29):
are people who are willing to speakup and speak out against the most basic
concept of hey, you know,treat people like people and don't marginalize,
don't discriminate against, don't harm innocentpeople, children, especially right who have
nothing to do with anything. Right. There was a spirit of activism out
(40:54):
there, which I think is verypositive, and thank goodness for it,
because to sit back and just watchthings happen and not use your voice,
that's a tough choice to make.And there are more than one way to
skin a cat. We all knowthat just because somebody is very vocal online
or what have you that doesn't meananything. A lot of that stuff can
(41:17):
get performative to a certain degree.So it really does come down to action.
Right. Hopefully in your circle andyour way, shape or form,
you're you're finding a way to contributeto solutions as opposed to, you know,
turning a blind eye or or evenencouraging some of the negativity that we
(41:40):
see out there. So that's mytake on that, and we'll see where
we go from here, you know, my goodness. But it's it's troubling,
it's challenging, and I see alot of people affected by this,
and it's tough, man, It'stough. It's tough when you again,
(42:05):
when you see rhetorics coming from differentgovernment entities and you know that like this
is not right. You know,it's just not right. So we'll leave
it at that anyway. Tell Usthe Truth on Facebook, on Twitter,
tell Us the Truth at gmail dotcom. Has always let me know what
you think. Till next time.Be kind to yourselves and be kind to
(42:25):
others. This is E Duke Bennettand you've been listening to tell Us the
Truth. Tell Us the Truth isproduced in Boston in association with iHeartMedia and
WBZ NewsRadio,
In this edition it Tells the Truthpodcast, we are talking mental health with
author deb Kasten. We've just releaseda new book entitled roll Back the World,
A Sister's Memoir. My name isE. Duke Bennett and this is
tell Us the Truth. Hello,I'm Deborah Casten, and I'm here to
(00:28):
tell you the Truth about my newbook, roll Back the World, A
Sister's Memoir. This is my firstbook, and it's written from a place
of both love and sorrow and thehope that others who find themselves in similarly
tragic situations won't feel so alone,even if they can't help their family member,
(00:54):
because sometimes family love is not enough, and it takes a community to
treat and support a person with severemental illness. Well, Deborah, thank
you for joining us here and tellUs the Truth. And I got to
tell you it is just refreshing toread about an experience that I think we
(01:15):
all can relate to, you know, whether personally or just within our families.
Here. Mental illness is something thatwe're all touched by in some way,
shape or form, and yet Idon't think we talk about it enough.
So the fact that you are ableto tell your family's story it's just
fantastic because I believe that it isopening up discussion and hopefully others will share
(01:41):
their stories and let people know that, you know, we're not alone out
there. So again, thank youfor that. Thank you. How does
it feel when someone says something likethat to you, I mean, legitimately,
thank you for putting out into theworld something that we don't normally talk
about. Thank you for articulating whatknow, we wish we could, but
we really feel as a stigma becauseof that we can't. Yeah, it's
(02:05):
very moving because when my sister died, I felt I had a mission.
I just felt I had to writea book. It just came over me,
and I had been silent for solong, and I just felt that
it was time to break the silence. I think that's a phrase they use
in some other areas, but Ijust felt it was a time to speak
(02:30):
out and let people know what it'slike, what Rachel's life was like,
because she was an unusual person anda courageous person, what it was like
for me and our family. Andso I got going on trying to write
it, and it was difficult.It wasn't easy. Tell me about the
(02:53):
process you had to go through inorder to muster up the courage to even,
you know, not only write thisbook, but put it out for
the world to see and analyze andform their own opinions about. Did you
have to go through any kind oftherapy or what have you? Yeah,
well I did have a therapist whohelped me get through the emotional parts and
(03:15):
you know, cry in her officeabout it, so emotionally that was very
important. I don't think I couldhave done it without that. I had
a lot of support from my husband, my family, and even from my
mother who was living with me atthe time. Although she didn't want to
know the details, she was gladI was writing about a book. So
(03:38):
yeah, I did need a lotof emotional support. And then I needed
support. I found support from otherwriters very useful. I joined workshops,
and that was invaluable because once youread something aloud, you know, and
people don't run screaming from the room, and you know, say that they
(03:59):
were very moved by it, thenthat gives that gave me much more encouragement
to keep going. So those twothings, No, dev we live at
a time where from a technological standpoint, this is the most advanced period and
known human existence, right, youknow, just with a few key strokes
at the at your fingertips there youcan travel around the world and learn about
(04:23):
anything and everything. And yet,unfortunately, we live in a society in
which people will record instances of othershaving, you know, mental breakdowns and
put it out there, and someeven poke fun at stuff like that.
That's really disturbing to hear because onething that just boil makes my blood boil
(04:49):
is hearing oh, in the articlesabout what to do with homeless people,
the mentally ill homeless people, whoare about thirty percent of that popula,
by the way, you know,you see comments, oh, just lock
them up. They're a nuisance,you know, they disturb my quality of
life. Well, you know,they deserve equality of life too, their
(05:12):
people, and so, you know, I wanted to speak out and say,
look, those people who you're laughingat or just want to get out
of the way. They have families, they have passed, they have hopes,
they have dreams, and they wanttheir lives you know, to be
under their control, despite what youmay think about them when you see them.
(05:36):
So yeah, I want people toknow that there are wonderful people who
they may not recognize behind some ofthe symptoms of mental illness wonderful people and
you know someone's loved one. Let'scall it what it is, right And
again, I don't think any anyof us in the world is not touched
(05:58):
by this or have some kind ofexperience with challenges of mental health, whether
on a personal or you know,family members. What have you talk to
me about your family dynamic in thatregard, because like you said, you
can't just turn a blind eye orquote unquote step over people would have you,
especially when they're part of your family. I mean, that's not love.
(06:21):
Talk to me about the dynamic andthe different challenges for everyone who were
close to the action there. Wewere four siblings and when Rachel needed help,
I was away of college, mybrother was on his way to college,
(06:42):
so two of us were out ofthe pact that we're really had one
foot out of the house. Myparents were left to deal with it,
and they wanted to protect us.So you know, their attitude was,
you go live your lives, willtake care of this. So you know,
in a way, you know thatyou know that's a worthy goal,
(07:05):
but it kind of has a,you know, another side to it,
and that it causes problems later whenwhen the whole family hasn't been involved in
what's happening. I mean, theydidn't keep it a secret, but they
said, we're going to take careof it. You just concentrate on your
(07:25):
lives, and I did, andI think one of the results of it
was that there was so much stressin the family because the treatments that she
got in the hospital were not helpingher very much. They just seemed to
make her worse. And she wasstill rebellious and just you know, running
(07:47):
off whenever she could, and myfather would have to go get her,
and my mother had her own ideas. So there was a lot of stress
in the family. But I wasaway of college. Then I got married
quite young and had children quite youngbased on today's standards, so I was
(08:07):
able to compartmentalize this issue. Iwould get updates, I would talk to
my mother, but my father andI would trust them. And when Rachel
was away, I would write.I would send her books. She always
sended me books. But I ledmy life in a I think, in
a compartmentalized way. And I movedaway. I moved far far from her,
(08:35):
and then she moved away. I'dgo through the book. There was
a lot of distancing geographically as wellas emotionally back and forth. So it
was this compartmentalizing I think that allowedme to cont focus on my family,
focus on my career, on mymarriage, while my parents struggled with the
(08:56):
decisions until my brother came up withan idea because things obviously hadn't helped her
for fifteen years, and then wehad a family, a big family pow
wow, attempted another solution, andthen more events resulted from that. But
(09:20):
still, you know, it washard, and I think I suffered a
little bit from this compartmentalizing, andyou know, I had periods of depression
because I was so hopeless. Itfelt helpless to do anything. So writing
this book was a way of dealingwith that, breaking down those walls that
(09:45):
I had built in myself, Andin that way it was kind of cathartic,
and I was able to get closeto her in ways that I hadn't
been before, because she was apoet and she loved creative writing, and
I was all in my writing wasas we discussed before business and technical and
in writing this book and including herpoetry, I felt we kind of came
(10:11):
together in a nice, in avery satisfying way for me. Talk to
me about advocacy in what role thatplayed in the family dynamic here, because
you really touched upon that in thebook and I thought it was interesting,
especially as it relates to your father. Right. Yeah, my father immediately
(10:31):
became an advocate. That was hisprofession. He was a social worker by
profession, and he didn't do therapy, but he did a community you know,
kind of community social work, andhe started meeting with other parents,
He found other parents of schizophrenic youngadults, and he formed an organization in
(10:58):
Saint Louis. And then that whenthe National Alliance a Mental Illness was being
founded, he got involved and helpedwith the original founding of that, and
then became very active in the SaintLouis which is a very large nomine organization.
And you know, he proposed researchand uh, he wrote letters to
(11:22):
newspapers. When a lot of publicityabout the abuses in the Saint Louis State
hospitals, he sued the federal governmentfor better care. So he was he
was he was an advocate. Imean, he he sued the state and
it went to federal court. ThenI married an advocate. My husband was
(11:50):
a big advocate for mental health.He was a social worker also before he
retired, and he he had profor people like Rachel. But h and
he and I was very close tohis work, you know, we talked
about it a lot. Unfortunately,we did not think Rachel would make it
(12:13):
living you know, near us andgoing to that to one of his programs,
because she was really so severely impaired. But you know, I kind
of split that off, you knowsometimes. So he was doing the advocacy
for years and years, and youknow, I was doing my business and
technology writing. As as I beganto do research for this book, I
(12:39):
became more aware of different different groups. I got involved with the local chapter
of not of NOMI National Alliance,and I was on their board for a
while. I've also become recently involvedwith another organization that advocates for alternatives to
(13:07):
medication. Medication may be part ofa treatment, but they're looking at alternatives
for a the heavily medicalized approach tomental illness that we see today in favor
of psychological and social treatments. Uh. And there are there are very much
(13:31):
against course treatment. As you know, you may know that's a that's an
issue now whether or not, sayyou force a psychological a disturbed person off
of the street, force them intothe hospital, force them into treatment if
they're not a danger to themselves orothers. Of course, So so I'm
(13:54):
very interested in doing more to prevent, course, treat you know, deb
and reading along, I learned anew word because of you. Yeah,
epigenetics. Epigenetics. Yeah. WhenRachel died, you know, I said
I had a mission, but Ialso had a history a mystery on my
(14:15):
hands, and I wanted to findout why what happened to Rachel and what
really happened and why? And Idid a lot of digging into information,
and I had cartons of letters andfamily documents that I found in my mom's
(14:37):
basement when we moved her out ofour house, and I went through everything
to try to find out, uh, you know what, you know,
what was going on in the family, what was our history? You know,
I've done all kinds of geneological research. I've got I got cartons of
(14:58):
records from the hospital she was in, and I read a lot, uh
and I did you know, Iread about and I took courses and epigenetics,
I realize is about a person's historyin terms and that history relative to
(15:18):
the environment they are in, sothat when a woman is pregnant and in
a lot of stress, you know, there are hormones that affect the development
the stress armons that can affect thedevelopment of the baby. So that even
though the genetic code itself has notchanged the expression of the of the genes,
(15:43):
So people may have genes that mayor may not contribute to schizophrenia,
but they may not be they maynot go into action, they may not
be expressed. But these stress factors, you know, shortly before birth or
even yeah, shortly before birth,they can sometimes cause these these genes to
(16:11):
come into action later in life,like in the lateeens or twenties. So
that's one area people look at interms of schizophrena risk factors. So to
do that, I went into thehistory in my family and before Rachel was
(16:33):
born and my parents were newlyweds innineteen forty one, and right after they
got married the draft for World Wartwo. My dad had to go overseas
and fight, and my mother wentto live with his family, and it
(16:56):
was very stressful because they didn't getalong so well, and she had a
baby and a husband fighting overseas,and he came back and they had to
start a new family and he hadto start his career and it was very
stressful. So these are the kindof thing of factors that may make a
(17:19):
predisposition to an illness like schizophrenia becomeactive in later life. So that's epigenetics.
Talk to me about the institutionalization becausethat's a mouthful so to speak there,
but it's something that you touch uponin the book as well. Now,
(17:40):
when Rachel was first institutionalized, deinstitutionalization was a big deal and the
hospitals were emptying out and sending peopleto boarding houses and halfway houses or wherever
they could find a place for them. And this resulted in the well known
(18:02):
revolving door because that didn't work either, and you know, people were back
in the hospital. So the ideaof deinstitutionalization was that there would be community
community treatment where people could recover,get assisted, assisted housing, outpatient treatment.
(18:26):
And this idea came was first startedunder President Kennedy, who had an
interest in this area because of hisdisabled sister. But the funding for the
community programs started to be cut duringthe Reagan areas, and that was cut
and cut and cut. So thereso the programs are sparse, but ideally
(18:52):
a person can come out of ahospital, find a good place to live
with the help of an agency thatfinds subsidized subsidized housing and puts case workers
into their lives so to make surethat they you know, that they can
(19:14):
live appropriately, be good tenants,uh and take care of themselves. So
they have people to to coach peoplethrough through adapting, to readaptation to community
life. And they need a placeto live, They need a social uh,
(19:36):
they need social interaction. There's amovement called clubhouses which is started by
Fountain House in New York City wherepeople can interact with with with others and
they need a purpose in life,whether it's going to school, job or
For my sister, it was writingpoetry and and there was one one person
(20:00):
in her life who was able tomake that work for her. And that's
something I write about. That wasout in Oregon and a very creative and
compassionate social worker was able to gether out of the hospital. By then
she was not going in and outand anymore they were prepared to keep her.
(20:23):
But he knew that it was inhumaneand that she shouldn't be there,
and he saw through her disabilities andhe saw the poet inside her, and
he just made it happen. Soa place to live, people to socialize
with. My sister was never thatsocial, but at the end of her
(20:45):
life there was a remarkable sequence ofevents that led her back to people she
could relate to, and she wasable to have that type of recovery to
an extent at the end of herlife. Eventually, your sister Rachel found
her way to religion, right right, Yeah, we're Jewish, and she
(21:10):
was Jewish, although for years Ithought she was going to When I used
to visit her when she was outwest, she talked about becoming about the
religion of the Native American and shewas intrigued with that. She was sometimes
Christian when she went to the SalvationArmy because they have wonderful shelters. She
talked a lot about Christianity. SoI didn't think she was too interested in
Judaism, you know, But Ifound in a letter that she wrote to
(21:34):
my mother, she asked her abouther Jewish practice. She asked her what
she thought of different things in Judaism. And then I put it together.
Even as I was writing this bookwith the fact that she did go to
find her way to a synagogue,and that social worker I told you told
you about, the one who helpedher so much, said, oh,
(21:56):
yes, she was always on herown. She didn't want me to get
involved with helping her. She wouldgo and there's something in there's a Yiddish
word of bshterit, meaning that somethingwas faded. It turned out I found
out later that the synagogue that shefound her way to had recently had a
(22:19):
rabbi who was quite an activist,who was very progressive, especially in things
like Jewish Arab relations, which wasvery as it is not very difficult,
and he took some actions that werevery controversial. The woman who told me
about Rachel's return said, if hewas still there, he had just left
(22:45):
when Rachel was there, he wouldhave taken Rachel home and had her over
for dinner. But his name,when I heard his name, I was
shocked. He went to our tothe same high school at Rachel and I
did, which was like two milesaway from where the synagogue was, and
he was in the year between us, right between our years in high school.
(23:07):
He was a famous football player onthe team, but he became a
rabbi, a very progressive rabbi,and so that synagogue was a place where
the women uh uh reached out toher. When she first came. Uh
she you know, they had togo into a bigger room because she had
(23:27):
body owed her, you know,one of the one of the behaviors disturbing
behaviors of severely men, real people'slack of hygiene. They told her,
if well, we'd love to includeyou when our services. This was a
what they call women's minion, andthey had their own services, but if
(23:49):
you want to be included in ourwe have a small room, so please,
you know, take a shower beforeyou come. And she did come
again, and she was cleaned out, smelled, dressed nicely, smell.
And she did this all on herown, and they they honored her.
(24:11):
Shortly before she died, they honoredher and gave her the honor of coming
up to what they call the Beama, the the pedestal where you read read
the pairs, and and she recitedthe paris just an incredible story, you
know, from the beginning to theend here and it's it's all real,
(24:33):
it's all relatable. And this iswhy folks I definitely encourage you to check
out Roll Back the World, TheSister's Memoir. I mean, it's again
the subject of mental health and mentalillness. You know, the idea that
it's something that everyone can relate to, whether personally or you know, you
(24:55):
see it in your family, whathave you. And yet it's something that
we don't talk about enough. Soagain, the fact that Deb dug so
deep and covered this not just aboutherself personally told her sister's story and also
told how it affected everybody within thefamily. And it's just it's amazing,
so many layers to it, evenall the way to the end of our
sister finding a way back to religionand how that helped assist and kind of
(25:22):
ending this story, so to speak, in a positive manner while her sister
was still living. So that's it'sjust fascinating. Uh. What's the best
way that folks can grab a copyof the book? So, yeah,
go online to any of the storesthe online stories you use, Amazon,
Bonds and Noble Book Bookshop or youcan and you can order there, or
(25:44):
you can go into your bricks andmortars store. If they don't have it
in stock yet, you can askthem to order it. You can go
to my website, Deborahcasting dot comand there are links to the online stores,
and I welcome you to visit meat the website. You know,
(26:06):
deb Before I let you go,I got to ask this question here because
I think it's really the most importantquestion for me. What do you hope
readers gain from reading this incredible bookhere, Roll Back the World, a
sister's memoir. What do you hopepeople walk away with? Well, I
want them to learn how a personcan be marginalized and then brought back into
(26:30):
community, and to understand that family, how much families go through, and
trying to help people with severe mentalillness, and to support initiatives in your
communities that involve recovery and community mentalhealth programs, because that's what's going to
(26:51):
make a big difference. You know, that's a subject that is just something
that we don't speak enough about,and if we do, it's it's always
very surface level stuff. And youknow, it's refreshing to hear from someone
like Debra Casten who she experienced it. She did what she had to do
(27:11):
in order to get herself prepared,and then she wrote an incredible memoir about
it. You know, her sister'smemoir Rolled Back the World, and again
when you provide information from all thedifferent perspectives, you know, the siblings,
the sister who's living with the mentalillness, the parents and how everyone
(27:33):
was affected by it, and thengoing deeper speaking to people who her sister
had relationships with that were completely outsideof the family, all the way down
to you know, the final momentsof her life and how she found her
way back to religion and how thathelped, and just it's amazing. It's
(27:53):
amazing, and it gives a lotof great perspective there and absolutely something that
I recommend people check out because it'smaybe that'll open the door for different types
of conversations for you to have inyour social circles and your family circle.
Never know, all right, Soonce again, Roll Back the World A
Sister's Memoir. It's out. Definitelyencourage everyone to grab a copy of that
(28:18):
book. Worth it. You know, folks, there's so much that's been
going on around the world, andI'd be remiss if I had not touch
upon some of this stuff. Youknow, specifically, we have the conflict
that's going on between Israel and Palestine. Now some people calling it a war,
(28:42):
some people calling it a genocide.Some people are taking offense if you
call it a war, if youcall it a genocide. Listen, here's
what I know. Innocent lives arebeing snatched from us out there, right.
I don't care who you support,I don't care what your personal feelings
(29:06):
are. Innocent lives are being lost. That's clear, and it's clear that
neither side of the conflict. Idon't feel there doing enough about that.
You know, if two parties wantto engage in any kind of battle,
(29:26):
okay, But when you start puttinginnocent people in the middle of it,
and they're the ones that have tolose it all and even the aftermath,
whoever's left over, how many lovedones did they lose, They're losing property,
they're losing you know, it's justcrazy. It's completely crazy. And
in future episodes, we're definitely goingto have some folks come on and discuss
(29:49):
it, some folks who are goingto be supportive of Israel's stance and how
they're going about things, and somepeople are going to be supportive of of
Palestine's stance and how they're going aboutthings. And I'm just going to put
it out there right, and asalways, this tell us the truth.
(30:10):
So it's not always going to beneat or cute, but it is going
to be raw, it's going tobe real. It's going to be the
truth. And then we'll leave itup to you to feel how you want
to feel about it. But aheadof the game here, I'm going to
make it very clear. I donot support murdering innocent people. It's just
(30:34):
crazy to me. And it's easyfor me to speak out and say whatever
I have to say. You know, in my nice, little, cushy
United States of America, which isfar from perfect, right, but we're
safe here. We generally don't fightwars on our soil, so it's easy
(30:55):
for me to say whatever I haveto say. But I'm going to say
something. That's the whole point ofhaving this platform. Right. If you
are someone who believes in our constitution, if you're someone who's religious and you
believe in the Golden Rule, Ijust don't understand how you could ever advocate
(31:18):
for taking innocent lives. That's justcrazy to me, And even in the
rhetoric you should lead with, inmy opinion, I don't support taking innocent
lives. It's as simple as that, and so many people want to force
everyone to take a side, andyou know you're seeing it, and this
(31:42):
is part of our culture now,right where if you don't respond in the
perfect, eloquent, exactly the waythat I want you to respond manner right
now in the moment, even thoughI even may change my perspective, right
but in the moment, if youdon't respond exactly the way that I want
(32:04):
you to respond, exactly the waythat I feel that I need you to
respond, then you're part of theproblem. This is how people are acting
about this, and I just don'tthink that's reasonable. In fact, I
think that's that's completely ridiculous because thereality of situation is there's a lot of
ignorance out there and no one knowswhere to turn in order to get a
(32:27):
clear picture. And just because youtell me, listen to me, I
know what I'm talking about. I'mthe one who can educate the masses and
what have you. Okay, Well, everyone's saying that, so how do
I know where to get the rightinformation from? Right, Well, there's
no excuse for ignorance, Okay,sure, But in the meantime, while
(32:51):
I'm trying to get educated and lookaround and listen and try to gather my
facts. Don't expect me to comeout with some major groundbreaking statement or draw
this line in the sand that's deepand dark and saying I'm on one side
or another. No, here's theside and one I'm on the side of
don't kill innocent people. That's it. That's it, simple as that,
(33:15):
And that's probably going to piss offeveryone. And that's okay, because at
the end of the day, Idon't see how history is going to be
unkind to those of us who aremaking it clear, don't kill innocent people.
I think our government here in theUnited States has had a very strange
response to all of this. Onone hand, yes, Israel is our
(33:37):
ally and you support your allies becausethey support us, right, so that's
what you do. But on theother hand, I don't feel they've been
aggressive enough about exclaiming, hey,don't kill innocent people. That took time,
right. You got folks saying they'regoing to annihilate and everyone who's over
(34:00):
on the other side they're part ofthe problem, and etc. Et cetera.
We can't support that kind of rhetoric, regardless of who it's coming from.
And the complexity of the fact thatthat Palestine currently their government is being
controlled by an organization Hamast the UnitedStates has deemed a terrorist organization. That
(34:23):
just completely complicates everything, right,because your government can be your government.
And I'm gonna just lay a pictureout here for you for those of you
who like to play bloods versus crips, you know, Republican versus Democrat.
You know that we go through cycles. One moment the Democrats in power,
(34:43):
the next moment the Republican's empower.It's just the way it is throughout my
entire life. That's how it's been, right, we go through cycles.
It's the red team of the blueteam. Can you imagine being deemed the
enemy because the government, political partythat's in power, in charge of your
government, they are the ones conducting, you know, whatever business they're out
(35:07):
there conducting and doing whatever they're doing. But you're going to be labeled as
part of the problem because of that, Right, that's ridiculous. I certainly
don't want to be blamed for anythingthat comes out of the mouth of any
president that we've ever had. Idon't care what political party they belong to,
(35:28):
or any government official for that matter. Right, So, to think
that we would just blankantly label anentire nation of people. I don't know
about that. There's something wrong aboutthat to me, because logic dictates that
there's a lot of innocent people andthat who are going to be putting harm's
(35:50):
way as a result of that.And more recently, you know, we
were hearing from President Biden, who'sstarting to say, hey, we have
to find a way to help peopleand get them out of the conflict and
etcetera, etcetera, you know,saving us and life. He's finally saying
that. But I was a littleslow to the to the point there in
(36:13):
the very beginning it was, yeah, we support any kind of reaction whatever.
You I don't know. I don'tjust boy, And even in me
saying all of this, I knowit's not the most eloquent thing to say,
right, And I know that there'sdefinitely gonna be some people who are
going to be pissed off about it. I just I don't believe in killing
(36:36):
us in people, man, That'sjust it, you know. And I
do believe that saying that you're goingto annihilate an entire nation of people,
that's a little much. That's alittle much, right, and I think
(36:57):
that I don't care if you're myfriend or not. I'm going to tell
you when I feel like you're goingtoo far, and I'm certainly not going
to encourage you to continue to gotoo far because where you know now,
it makes us no better than anyonethat we claim that we're fighting against.
Right, you see a lot ofprotests happening around the nation, and including
(37:21):
Jewish people who are protesting against Israel'sresponse and saying, hey, not in
my name, don't say that you'rerepresenting me when you're going out and you're
doing things that you're doing. Idon't know. There are a lot of
Palestinians doing the same thing. Right, they don't be held accountable for Hamas
(37:43):
Right, Innocent people are caught inthe middle of this thing. That's their
properties being destroyed, that's their livesbeing lost, it's their loved ones being
lost. Here, we got totake a sober look at this stuff and
make sure that we're not supporting thethings, the actions that we claim to
(38:07):
be against. How many times havewe sat here and we've thought about things
that have happened throughout the history ofthe world, and you say to yourself,
man, how could we let thathappen? Oh man, I can't
even imagine that. Well, thisis how this is exactly how So I
(38:30):
don't know. Like I said,we will have people who are far more
eloquent and are more well read andexperts on all of this geopolitical stuff,
and they'll be able to talk aboutit and you know, free from my
spin. I just know that myside is with the innocent people. I
don't care if they're from Israel,Palestine, from the Moon. If you're
(38:57):
not someone who is actively out theretrying to take other people's lives or what
have you, then you should notbe caught in the middle of something like
this, and you certainly shouldn't harmshouldn't be done to you. It's crazy
to me. So that's my stancefor anyone who has requested it, and
there's been a lot, you know, folks definitely want an episode or episodes
(39:22):
from this program about this, becauseyou know, I don't try to get
in the way of what my guestsare saying. He's not going to do
that, you know, tell usthe truth. It's not just a name,
it's it's legitimately the way we dothings here. So something uponder,
(39:42):
something to sit on there, boy, and my heart goes out to everybody
who is affected by this, becauseit's it's definitely affecting a lot of relationships,
and it's just the next progression ofeverything. You know, when we
had all of the Black Lives Matterprotesting, when we had the women's rights
(40:07):
the more recent women's rights protesting,going all the way back to occupy,
you know, the Arab Spring.You start really going through all these different
things that are happening around the nationand around the world, and you realize
that there is a culture of activism, and thank goodness for that. There
(40:29):
are people who are willing to speakup and speak out against the most basic
concept of hey, you know,treat people like people and don't marginalize,
don't discriminate against, don't harm innocentpeople, children, especially right who have
nothing to do with anything. Right. There was a spirit of activism out
(40:54):
there, which I think is verypositive, and thank goodness for it,
because to sit back and just watchthings happen and not use your voice,
that's a tough choice to make.And there are more than one way to
skin a cat. We all knowthat just because somebody is very vocal online
or what have you that doesn't meananything. A lot of that stuff can
(41:17):
get performative to a certain degree.So it really does come down to action.
Right. Hopefully in your circle andyour way, shape or form,
you're you're finding a way to contributeto solutions as opposed to, you know,
turning a blind eye or or evenencouraging some of the negativity that we
(41:40):
see out there. So that's mytake on that, and we'll see where
we go from here, you know, my goodness. But it's it's troubling,
it's challenging, and I see alot of people affected by this,
and it's tough, man, It'stough. It's tough when you again,
(42:05):
when you see rhetorics coming from differentgovernment entities and you know that like this
is not right. You know,it's just not right. So we'll leave
it at that anyway. Tell Usthe Truth on Facebook, on Twitter,
tell Us the Truth at gmail dotcom. Has always let me know what
you think. Till next time.Be kind to yourselves and be kind to
(42:25):
others. This is E Duke Bennettand you've been listening to tell Us the
Truth. Tell Us the Truth isproduced in Boston in association with iHeartMedia and
WBZ NewsRadio,
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