May 15, 2023 • 59 mins
Tell Us The Truth Episode 76: Reem Abdellatif
Reem Abdellatif is an Egyptian American, former Award Winning Journalist and a Trauma Informed Coach. Listen as Reem opens up about her experiences covering the Arab Spring, Structural Racism around the World, working with Survivors of Trauma and more. Reem also holds nothing back sharing thoughts on whether Women should be treated equal to Men, especially in leadership, within Muslim Society. Reem covers a wide array of serious subject matter with exceptional precision & encourages all listeners to learn more at healing-redefined.com .You won't want to miss this edition of Tell Us The Truth!
*You can Subscribe to Tell Us The Truth on all leading podcast apps including the iHeart Radio App, Spreaker and iTunes/Apple Podcasts. Join us on Facebook and Twitter for daily discussion about top news.*
Reem Abdellatif is an Egyptian American, former Award Winning Journalist and a Trauma Informed Coach. Listen as Reem opens up about her experiences covering the Arab Spring, Structural Racism around the World, working with Survivors of Trauma and more. Reem also holds nothing back sharing thoughts on whether Women should be treated equal to Men, especially in leadership, within Muslim Society. Reem covers a wide array of serious subject matter with exceptional precision & encourages all listeners to learn more at healing-redefined.com .You won't want to miss this edition of Tell Us The Truth!
*You can Subscribe to Tell Us The Truth on all leading podcast apps including the iHeart Radio App, Spreaker and iTunes/Apple Podcasts. Join us on Facebook and Twitter for daily discussion about top news.*
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Rem Abdu Latif is a trauma informedcoach, Egyptian American former journalist all around
just a realm of all trades,so to speak, and she is here
to share information about her incredible life, also the work that she does and
offer some solutions to some major problemsthat we all face in society. My
(00:26):
name is e Duke Bennett and thisis tell us the Truth. Hi,
my name is rem Abdu Latif.I'm an Egyptian American ex journalist and a
trauma informed coach, and I'm hereto tell you the truth. I used
to work in corporate journalism. Iwas an international correspondent working for organizations like
(00:47):
The Wall Street Journal in the LaTimes, covering violence in the Middle East
in different places around the world.And if you don't tend to your mental
and emotional health, you can faceseveral healing crisis I call them. You
can face several health issues that arisebecause the emotional body and the mental body
(01:12):
are very in the physical body arevery much interconnected. Well, Reem,
this is definitely a conversation that I'vebeen really looking forward to because you have
challenged by thinking on a lot ofthings, and you have provided some phrases
that go along and help me understandcertain things a little better. So one
(01:32):
of the first places I want tostart here in this conversation is internal decolonization.
What does that mean? And howdid you come up with that?
Oh? My goodness, that's likea big term to unpack, isn't it.
Internal decolonization is literally shedding yourself ofany outside teachings that go against who
(01:56):
you authentically are. And what Imean by that is, you know,
oftentimes we're all feeding off of thedifferent platforms we look at TV, society
upbringing, and when I talk aboutinternal decalization, I'm talking about also the
shedding ourselves of you know, falsekind of responsibilities that we put on ourselves.
(02:21):
It's being authentic to who we areand you know, what we want
to be, and also respecting thespace of where we are now and where
we want to be. Um notjumping too far ahead in the future,
not jumping too far ahead in thepast, because the past is done.
But when we colonize internally, weare essentially taking back our freedom from the
(02:42):
trauma that we've inherited from our ancestors, a trauma that we've created. You
know, we've experienced in our lifetime. No one hasn't experienced a traumatic event.
We all experienced a collective traumatic eventwhen the pandemic happened. And you
know that that also gave me sometime to kind of look back during lockdown
and look at you know, thedifferent parts of my life that I could
(03:07):
do without the different um you know. So you know, sometimes we haven't
we didn't we didn't forgive a coworker, or we haven't for forgiven our
parents for whatever. We haven't forgivenour grandmother for you know whatever. Growing
up and sometimes we have to reallytake a step back and you know,
say, you know, my ancestors, my people did the best that they
(03:29):
could with the knowledge that they had, and they too were colonized, especially
if you're coming from a community ofcolor, or if you're coming from the
Middle East, which is you know, I'm originally Egyptian American as I told
you, and mixed with different umyou know, Palestinian and Saudi roots as
(03:50):
well, and so we faced alot of colonization, both from external uh
colonizers and internal as well. Sothere's a lot, you know that goes
behind that. But at the endof the day, it really is about
shedding everything that is not serving youand it is not authentically you. That's
(04:12):
an interesting concept, and I knowthat a lot of people are challenged by
that because we live in a socialmedia day and age. So you can
log onto all the different fancy socialmedia sites Facebook, TikTok, Instagram,
Twitter, and you can find alot of like minded people who you can
(04:36):
share information with, learn from,teach, But you can also find a
lot of detractors, you know,people who go out of their way to
twist your words or disagree to thepoint of harassment. And what have you
to me about your experience in thatregard, because you know, quite frankly,
(04:57):
reim you've been a hot button personinternationally. You know, a lot
of people have some strong opinions ofyou because of the fact that you were
so upfront about your views and you'renot afraid to stand firm on them,
right. Yeah. Absolutely, I'vehad a lot of issues online, you
know, being a journalist, youknow, and I hate to say this,
a female journalist, you know,but you know, sadly these labels
(05:23):
are politicized against us, so we'regoing to have to use them. As
a woman journalist, um, Ifaced a lot of attacks from my work,
whether it was talking about anti abortionlaws in the US or talking about,
um, you know, the falsereforms that are being adopted in places
like Saudi Arabia in the Middle Eastor the United Arab Emirates. I worked
(05:45):
in both domains, in different countries, and I faced online attacks because of
that. You know, I wascalled you know, everything that you could
imagine. It's public, it's published, you know, all of this is
public. I was called horrible namesthat you know, I don't want to
say them because they might get bleepedout in this interview, but they are,
(06:06):
you know, horrible names, slutshamed as well, and these are
all terms specifically used to intimidate women. They are you know, they're not
gender neutral terms, you know whatI mean. So all that being said,
I remember, I think it wasPrince who said this, and I
(06:27):
really do appreciate this quote from Princewhen he said, you can use technology,
but don't let it use you.And that's the approach that I very
much adopt when I use technology.You know, we all fall into the
trap and sometimes I have to catchmyself right to make sure why am I
posting this? Am I posting thisjust to get attention, or am I
(06:49):
just posting it to be true andauthentic to who I am? And if
it's not the latter answer, thenI'm not going to post it. Or
you know, if I look atsomeone else and they're doing great and or
they're in Bali or whatever, andyou know, I got to catch myself.
Am I truly happy for them?Or am I just comparing like where
I am? Now? You knowwhat I mean, And you just have
(07:10):
to be careful, like it's ait's a very thin line, and we
have to we have to limit,you know. I remember before we started,
you know, before we connected torecord this episode, I told you
that I wasn't feeling well, soI took a break from social media.
I took a break from you know, online, just to kind of recharge.
(07:30):
And you know, you come backwhen you're ready and you engage with
it. How you feel again istruthful to who you are? You know,
I wonder realm especially again in thissocial media age, you're somebody who
is very effective at using video marketing, short clips and things like that where
(07:50):
you give affirmations information. You're stilldoing some form of reporting on things going
on in the world on your socialmedia, which I appreciate. It's good
content there. Do you feel partof the reactions that you get, whether
positive or negative, but I meanbecause they are plentiful. How much of
(08:13):
that has to do with the factthat not only that you're a woman,
but you know, you're a womanwho knows how to utilize marketing properly.
How much does that affect the reactionthat you receive. Yeah, that's a
very good question. It affects ita lot. So let me let me
unpack a little bit about my background. So I used to work in the
(08:37):
Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emiratesfor about five years and it got to
a point where, you know,things were changing politically and I was changing
too. If we're not changing likeno, one never changes like that is
the eternal fact of life that we'reall always evolving or devolving. But it's
still changed. So you know,in the Middle East, I um,
(09:01):
you started acknowledging certain things and Iwas being truthful to who I am and
speaking out against certain things. Iwas tasked with helping the Saudi government build
a global media platform in English.That would you know, And at the
time, I thought, you know, this is great. You know,
if we're going to debunk prejudice anddebunk you know, racism, we need
(09:24):
this kind of platform in the MiddleEast. But it wasn't really that I
was being tokenized as a smart womanwho looked good on marketing, you know
what I mean. Um And Ididn't like that when I when I realized
that that was the case and therewas no true reforms happening. And then
I also faced some harassment within theworkplace. I didn't appreciate that obviously,
(09:46):
UM. So I took a stepdown, and then I wrote about it.
I wrote about it. Um.You know, we all we all
heard of, maybe all of us, but some people heard of the partnership,
the recent partnership between the United ArabEmirates and Israel. M Before this
partnership even took place, I waspublished in a prominent left wing, progressive
(10:09):
Israeli newspaper. I actually became thefirst Egyptian Muslim American woman to be published
in that paper. Um. Andyou can read some of my articles on
my website. But you know,shortly after the UAE made a peace deal
with Israel, but it became illegalin the United Arab Emirates to criticize the
(10:30):
state of Israel, which is somethingthat I actually did it. You know,
I still criticize the state of Israel. And I was accepted to write
to this Israeli newspaper. So longstory, sure, you know, being
a woman who was tokenized in thissense, you know, was something that
(10:50):
I couldn't accept. And I couldn'taccept showing up under someone else's terms while
hiding like other parts of myself.So if you're not going to celebrate me
fully, you know, that's nothealthy. That's not something that I want
to be a part of, youknow. And I found and I found
myself being vocal in an Israeli newspaper, but not being able to be vocal
(11:13):
and communities who you know, mightspeak my own language or you know,
share some other identities that we have. There can be no justice, no
peace if we don't accept our ownif we don't accept each other. And
what I mean by that is Imean you have you know, one of
my issues with in Saudi Arabia andthe UAE is that women like me who
(11:37):
may not be a traditional Muslim.And I put that I raise air quotes.
You can't see it, but I'mraising air quotes. Women like me,
who might not be a traditional Muslimor traditional Middle Eastern are not actually
accepted in these communities. You areaccepted only if you adopt a certain tone.
And I've experienced this also in theUS. Men, any of us,
(12:00):
as women of color or people ofcolor in general, have experienced this.
In the United States, some ofus experience it on a daily basis.
If we are not to celebrate andvalidate and accept one another, it's
not just about tolerance anymore. We'reentering an era. And we see it
with all these different protests in Tennesseeand you know, all over the country
(12:22):
here in the US, and thenyou have it going on in the Middle
East in different parts of the world. We see that young people want to
be accepted and not just tolerated.They want to be validated for who they
are. And if we don't startdoing that and stop tokenizing one another and
kind of like treating people as commodities, you know, colonization is not just
(12:48):
when we talk about colonization, it'snot just government or you know, it
happens inside homes, it happens insidecommunities. It's happening here in the US,
and we're fighting it. We're seeingyoung people gen Z fighting millennials fighting
it every day, and I thinkit's very important that you know, we
(13:09):
are able to show up as ourfull true selves. So what happened when
you stepped away from journalism? Becauseyou know, one of the cool things
about listening to you speak is thatit's very clear that you are a complete
thinker. You know, you're You'renot just saying a bunch of words out
there and then trying to backtrack andhave to apologize or you know, try
(13:31):
to explain a different way. No, you know what you're talking about,
which is refreshing, because unfortunately,I think that's a lost art these days.
A lot of people they don't knowwhat they're talking about, and they
speak before they've actually taken the timeto understand their own thoughts. But you're
the complete opposite here. Someone likeyou is needed in terms of journalism,
(13:52):
news, getting the facts out,exploring what's really going on around the world.
But you took a step back,You took a step away and transition
into something else. So what happenedWhere are we at now? Well,
first of all, thank you forfor that. Um, I think I
didn't fully take a step back Iam writing on my own terms, um
(14:18):
writing, working on a few booksin the works. Can't say too much
about it now, but I think, you know, my work has taken
on a different shape, and itreally is and I'm healthier for it,
and I'm happier for it. Itreally is just changing, you know,
doing what I love, taking whattaking what I've learned as a journalist and
(14:41):
adopting it into a different platform ora different practice. And that, you
know, leads me to my healingpractice and my coaching practice, and you
know, the writing and all ofthat, and my work on social media,
my videos. I'm taking it toa different um level. And you
know, we hear this cliche,and it's not It's not really cliche because
(15:03):
I faced this throughout my career withthe different attacks and you know, um
issues that have come up because Iwasn't fully accepted, whether it was in
the US, not being in someyou know, you know American corporate organizations
or you know places you might notI was not accepted as a Muslim woman
(15:26):
or a Middle Eastern, a womanof Middle Eastern origin. I was not
fully accepted and celebrated, like Isaid earlier, and then in the Middle
East. I faced the same thing. So that leads me to the cliche
that I wanted to wanted to say, is that if you know when you
found when I found myself in thesecertain situations, it's because I was,
you know, being guided to createsomething new. And sometimes leaders have to
(15:48):
walk alone for a little bit untilyou know they can, you know,
come across other people of similar youknow, that's how you and I connected.
Um, you know, we wehave to kind of step out on
our own to prioritize our mental health, to prioritize what we want to do,
because we see, we saw thishappening in the pandemic. A lot
(16:10):
of people had had to leave theirjobs, whether it was because of cuts,
corporate cuts, the recession, orsimply because they couldn't do that work
anymore. It was too stressful tomaintain. And that's very important. You
know, I will always be ajournalist at heart, I'll always be a
writer. I you know, I'mconstantly writing script from my videos. I'm
(16:34):
constantly working on different books and youknow, speaking to publishers about my book.
You know what I mean, likethat work has to take on a
different um you know, medium oridentity and it's just I think it's if
you're happy doing what you're doing,there's only you can only go up from
(16:55):
there. What can potential clients expectto see if they want to partake?
And you know what you offer herebecause it's it's again like you said from
the very beginning, it's very complex. You have a very particular style,
a particular coaching method when it comesto healing, redefined. So what can
(17:18):
people expect if they want to checkyou out, Well, they can expect
redefined in a perspective, when itcomes to healing, it is not easy.
You know. People see me online, they see the the put together
me, But when you're healing,it is not easy, and you have
to face a lot of demons.You have to face your own demons,
(17:41):
and you have to face your ownbullshit. You know, you have to
call yourself out sometimes, and that'sthe hardest part, you know, obviously
as a trauma and formed coach,I try my best, and you know,
and I do my best, likeyou said, to think before I
speak, and to all of thethings, of the good things. But
(18:02):
sometimes it can be triggering to faceyour own demons. Sometimes it can be
triggering to look in the mirror,and all I'm doing is holding up a
mirror for people. Do you likewhat you see? If there are certain
things you're not you know, youdon't like, we can work on them
while at the same time extending ourselvesgrace as we go through this process.
Because you know, I said earlier, some of the things that we go
(18:26):
through are learned from society or communitiesor ancestors or parents or whatever. But
a lot of times, you know, we also take on certain beliefs and
carry them and it can be tooheavy. It can be too heavy to
carry that belief Sometimes we have internalizedracism. We see this in the United
States today, you know, andit happens when you see a you know,
(18:51):
a black police officer beating or killinganother black man for whatever reason.
There's no excuse for that. Anda lot of that and like I've witnessed
also in Egypt, when I sawEgyptian police officers killing and murdering or harassing
Egyptians and Egyptian women. A lotof that is internalized colonization. And none
(19:15):
of that is easy. It's alot to unpack. You know, I'm
not saying we have to unlearn everything. We also have to look at the
past with a certain appreciation because itgot us here today. Without our ancestors,
without literally climbing on our parents andour ancestors backs, we wouldn't be
where we are today. But ifwe don't like the demons that are keeping
(19:40):
us, holding us basically hostage frombeing able to reach our full potential,
whatever we feel that, maybe thenwe're going to have to face that.
And so my clients can expect asafe space to be themselves. They can
expect a safe space, but atthe end of the day, it's something
that you got to show up willingto do. You got to show up
(20:02):
being committed to yourself. There's noother way. And that is why I
appreciate every single person that comes tome because I know in order for them
to reach this stage of you know, asking someone else to facilitate their healing,
there was a lot of inner workthey had to do before getting there,
and I appreciate them for that.So this is holistic healing, for
(20:26):
lack of a better phrase, right, yeah, it's it is. It's
coaching different healing modalities that are verymuch rooted in my own indigenous practice as
an Egyptian, you know, asa spiritual Muslim, you know, as
I also work with others to helpto be a healing facilitator, I find
(20:49):
that I unlock certain things for myself, and you know it, in the
past few months, one of thethings that I noticed is that I also
have to be true too. Ihave to show up true to who I
am fully, and I'm many differentthings. And you know, one of
the beautiful things about you know,we're in Ramadan right now. You know,
(21:11):
maybe Rabada will be over by thetime this episode is aired. But
and it's interesting that, you know, after tapping into who who my ancestors
were, after tapping into who Iam as a person, my work also
changed for the better, you know, it became more holistic, like you
just said, So, yeah,there are different modalities. There are There's
(21:34):
a mirror work, which involves speakingaffirmations into the mirror, and it really
depends on where you are or wherethe person is in their journey. There's
unlearning work. You know. Sometimespeople come and they're like, you know,
I'm doing this and I'm doing that, and I just want to stop
doing it, and then we haveto work on unlearning that. And sometimes
(21:56):
there's also um you know, unpackingtrauma, which can be a little bit
obviously triggering, but you know,there there are ways to do that in
a healthy, non invasive way,if you will, UM, such as
hypnotherapy, for example, which issomething that I'm also licensed in UM as
(22:19):
a life coach. Well, andI'm glad that you just said that,
because that was definitely my next question. I mean, for people out there
who are listening to you right nowand are interested in what you offer.
But you know, it's always aquestion, I mean, what makes you
qualified to be able to provide theseteachers? Well, other than the courses
(22:41):
and the certifications that I've gotten,UM, I am a certified Ricky Healer,
Ricky Healer, and I'm also certifiedto teach RAKI. I've completed all
of the courses required. I ama you know, certified life coach by
the American Board of NP neurol NeurologuisticProgramming, UM, you know. And
(23:06):
other than all of that, Ithink really what it comes down to is
the fact that I'm coming from aplace of experience, UM I UM,
I'm a survivor of child sexual abuse, UM you know, and that's something
that was very difficult for me toovercome. It took many years for me
to get here. Um. Youknow, I've stood up to different dictators
(23:30):
around the world and in different workcommunities. UM. You know, I
I have had to kind of walkthrough the fire as well. UM.
And I'm not saying, you know, every healer has to come from that
kind of perspective, but you know, you know I co founded during the
(23:51):
pandemic, I co founded an organizationcalled the African Women Rights Advocates and it
is a it is an organization thatis very much founded by survivors. And
we talked about the importance of havingsurvivor based healing in different communities around the
world and survivor based activism in thein the power that lies in survivor based
(24:17):
activism, especially from coming from ahealed perspective. Um. You know,
I don't even feel the deed tocall myself a survivor constantly anymore, because
I've I've gotten to, you know, that place where what has happened to
me is not part of me.You know, trauma happens to us and
(24:37):
it you know, it changes somethinginside of us internally, but we have
the power to change it back.We might not forget what happened. It
might be difficult and it is difficultto change it back, but you have
to be willing, like I saidearlier, and you have to be committed,
committed to your own healing, committedto your invested in your own healing,
(25:00):
because if you don't invest in yourown healing, then you're not committed.
And I found that, you know, the more committed that I've been
on my journey, the more resourcesshowed up. I did mention all the
certifications and all of that, buthonestly, when it comes down to it,
it's speaking from experience, lived experience. You know, you brought it
up a few times here as werecord this, we have Ramadan going on,
(25:25):
and it's interesting because we're in twentytwenty three and so much has happened
over you know, the past fewdecades, and especially when we think of
different situations throughout the world, warsand military conflict and uprisings and etcetera,
(25:47):
etcetera, etcetera. And for somecrazy reason, and it continues to this
day, brown skin Muslims in particularare still demonized and treated like some kind
of boogeyman, and it's heartbreaking andfrustrating. Despite all that's happened throughout the
(26:10):
world. We continue to not onlywe combine racism and xenophobia together to create
this problem here. Is it gettingany better for the modern Muslim especially here
in the United States? I mean, you know, I know that you
can only speak from your experience andpeople who you know, what have you,
(26:32):
But you have a perspective. What'syour take. It's a very good
question. Okay. Is it gettingbetter in institutions, in different corporations.
It's a fight, it's a strugglebecause they're no. There are people out
there who still have that, Likeyou said, it's heartbreaking. They still
(26:53):
have their combining that xenophobia and Islamophobiato label people with hate. They create
labels to further box people in them. But is it getting better for me
as realm? Is it getting betterfor my clients who I work with to
help with the decolonization process, Yes, it is getting better. Why because
(27:15):
we refuse to be boxed in thoselabels simply that like I refuse to be
you know, boxed in. Andyou can see this throughout my career.
When I was being boxed in ina certain persona or label, when I
was in Saudi, I took thatoff and walked away. When if I'm
being boxed in here in certain communities, that's that's your that's the other person's
(27:41):
limited perception. Xenophobia islamophobia, thatis your limited perception. And if you're
choosing to see me through that lens, that's your problem, because then if
you don't have women like me orpeople like me in your institution or your
corporation, you're not going to beable to thrive in the new world,
in this evolving world that we wereconstantly evolving every day, you know.
(28:06):
And one of the beautiful things aboutyou know, my my spiritual practice is
that at one point, I also, you know, had my own issues
with internalized colonization, and I faceda lot of discrimination for being a woman
inside certain Muslim communities. And againI had to unlearn all of that because
(28:27):
that was the other person's limited perspective. I couldn't let that affect how I
practice my religion or my spiritual spirituality. That has nothing to do with me.
So, you know, I thinkit's important that we are able to
separate ourselves from that and to understandthat while it may not be and it
(28:52):
will get better, you know,things I feel like things get worse before
they get better. We are actuallyseeing this, you know, the Islamic
phobia and all of these issues happeningbecause they're coming to the surface to be
purged, you know, as acollective. You know, a lot of
people don't even believe that the prophetMuhammad in Islam, that he was a
prophet. A lot of people don'tbelieve that in different spiritual that's fine,
(29:15):
you don't have to believe it.But again, in a world where we
are preaching as progressive people and Iconsider myself very much progressive, progressive,
and a world where we are preachingacceptance, tolerance, in celebrating the other,
you have to acknowledge there. Youneed to acknowledge it in order for
(29:36):
us to move forward. You can'tcompletely disregard in shame or you know,
exclude any community at this point.That's not sustainable. That's not a sustainable
environment for us to live in aspeople. You know, there are so
many different elements, elements to unpackhere. But like I said, it
(30:00):
will not be sustainable if we don'tlearn how to accept one another. And
what you know, when we arefaced with that racism or z homophobia or
xenophobia, we do have to separateourselves from it and make sure that we're
not allowing ourselves to live in thoseboxes, those labels that people use to
(30:22):
disenfranchise one another. If that makessense, it makes perfect sense. And
I'm glad that you brought up someof the internal challenges that happen within the
community, you know, within theMuslim community, because I'll tell you and
for folks listening, take a stepback and think about this. Religion is
(30:45):
an interesting thing, and most ofthe religions that we know of that are
the predominant religions around the world,it's very clear that men are the ones
who led the teaching because it's menwho are ordained as the supreme leaders.
(31:06):
You know, we've never had afemale pope in a lot of other types
of Christian religions that if you havea woman who's a bishop, people act
like they're about to go to warover that. You know, So from
your perspective realm as someone who's livedit in living it as someone this is
your life, this is your culture, this is your community. In twenty
(31:29):
twenty three, is their room withinIslam for women to not only lead side
by side with men, but evenfrom women to lead period and be treated
and thought of as equal, maybenot by everybody, but at least by
the greater community that is of thereligion. Is is that possible today and
(31:56):
going forward? I'm so glad youasked this question. I'm here right,
I'm sitting here talking to you,So there definitely is And the way that
I got here today is through leadership. So there definitely is room, and
we are definitely taking up the spacesthat we are being guided to take.
(32:21):
I wouldn't be here if there wasn'tspace. I wouldn't be here if I
didn't follow my spiritual intuition, myinner guidance to get here today. And
you know what, Like I talkedabout the negative side of working in the
Middle East or in Muslim communities,I'm going to talk about the positive as
well, both in the United Stateswhere I am based now and also you
(32:44):
know, in the Middle East.When I was in the Middle East,
I worked for an organization called ourCom which means Numbers, And this was
before they got taken over by theSaudi government. That's when I ended up
leaving. But that was a familyowned business, Saudi family owned business,
and I actually became the first womaneditor in chief of their publication. And
(33:07):
during that time, the organization gota reward, an award from they got
acknowledged for using social media for thebetterment of the Arab world, and they
got that from Sheik Maktoum in Dubai. That is a very prestigious award that
I was happy to kind of helpbring to the finish line. And like
I said, I was the firstfemale editor in chief in the history of
(33:30):
that company. I had a veryprominent leadership position which I got to travel
all over the region, got tosee things that you know, really opened
up my mind and helped my ownperception of Middle Eastern culture as well as
someone who grew up in the UnitedStates. And here in the US,
we see a lot of people whoare you know that we have a lot
(33:54):
of space in the United States tobe able to freely express ourselves and we
have to um. You know,we have to take advantage of that,
and we are taking advantage of thatas women, as and not just as
women, but as people who perceivethe religion from a different perspective. We
have rights to be able to um. We have the right to be able
(34:17):
to express that and there's definitely space, there's definitely a need for it.
Verna lookout history and you mentioned therewas no female pope and that's you know,
that's also sad there. You know, there's not a lot of spiritual
and even when when we talk aboutspiritual Muslim leaders, they are not of
(34:40):
the mystic or Sufi side. Theyare a very much traditional scope, which
again that's something that we as acommunity have to unlearn and unpack and we're
doing it, you know, Andsometimes people like me might feel weird or
ashamed to be Muslim and loud andproud, you know what I mean.
(35:00):
I call it coming out of thespiritual closet. But I'm going to show
up as me regardless. There areother people also, other women showing up
as themselves regardless. We have ArabAmericans and you know Muslim Americans in different
you know, walks of life,and in the model industries, you have
um you know, different people onTV that you know, and everyone is
(35:24):
showing up the way they authentically,authentic to who they are UM And in
Islam, you know, there's avery interesting um story in Islam and in
the history of Islam, a lotof times the women and who the daughters
of the prophet or the prophet's wives, they would lead. They would be
(35:47):
in battle shoulder to shoulder with themen. Although they didn't have to be
they they they you know, theydidn't have to be there, but they
would show up. They still showedup up. And a lot of the
hadis, or the sayings of theprophets that are most accurate and that are
acknowledged as accurate, are said bywomen. And then you have also the
(36:13):
story of Mary Magdalene and Jesus thatis often ignored in Christian biblical practice.
We only hear about the apostles,we only hear about John, and you
know, the different male figures,like you said, But no, women
are very much there, and thatis who we're channeling. That is who
(36:35):
you know, who we're you know, we're here, like I said,
to take up the spaces were meantto be. If I didn't follow my
intuition, which I personally believe iscoming from the Divine, that I wouldn't
be here today. So no onecan tell me that, you know,
oh no, there's no room foryou. I'm going to make room.
If you're not going to allow meto have a seat at the table.
(36:55):
I'm going to make my own table. I'll sit on the floor. You
know what I mean is different waysto do it, and I think we
are definitely. We're definitely doing it. And you have to take what's yours.
You can't wait for someone to giveit to you. Lorriem, you
have me all excited here. Umagain. You know you're you're a complete
(37:15):
thinker. You provide some great informationand you have the experience. You have
the lived experience, you have theeducation to back up why you are the
way that you are, and forthat reason, you're able to counsel and
provide services to others who need aspiritual awakening for awakening for lack of a
(37:35):
better term there, Why don't youlet everybody know the best way that they
can keep up with you, includinganyone who wants to partake in some of
your teachings. Yeah. So Iam on Instagram primarily. I also have
a website with different offerings coaching methodsand tools that you know, services that
(37:58):
I can offer, and you knowevery method every person needs a different method,
So I totally respect that. Alot of my coaching is also Taylor
made for different circumstances, different people, from different walks of life. So
it would primarily be my website,Healing Slash Redefined dot com and on Instagram.
(38:20):
I'm on Twitter, not as activebecause of the shadow banning that's been
going on, but yeah, youcan definitely find me on my website.
You can reach out by email andwe'll take it from there. Okay,
Rien, Before I let you go, I got to ask you a very
important question. It's a question Ilove to ask all my guests because it's
(38:44):
it's always interesting to hear these responses, but for you in particular, especially
as we have Ramadan this time ofyear, and what have you? When
it's time to break fast, whichyou know, you know at least when
I have partaken before. You know, you break fast with a date and
then you get on with the feast. What's a what's a great ream meal?
(39:09):
Especially if if it's not quick andit's something that you really want to
sit down and enjoy and what haveyou? What are you getting into?
Um? Oh my god, that'ssuch a good question. I love um.
I love Middle Eastern food. Sowe have this very uh kind of
indigenous dish to Egypt. It's likeum okra stew. You can make it
(39:35):
with. You can make it veganor you can also do um, add
meat or chicken if you like,but usually I like it just the vegetables.
So it's okra red stew with tomatoes, garlic and onions, um,
and then some rice, some somewhite rice. I love that, and
a little on the side. What'sthe stew called. It's said okra stew,
(40:00):
a red okra stew. So it'smade with tomatoes and okra, vegetables
and onions and garlic. Okay,So it's not called anything else. So
if if I go to a sayinga Middle East restaurant and try to order
off the menu, is it calledanything else? It's usually called a red
ochre stew. Okay, Okay,So we have red ochra stew. We
(40:22):
have the white rice soaked that up. Are we getting any of the crispy
rice at the bottom there of thepot? You know about the crispy rice?
Oh? I know all about thecrispy rice. Absolutely. And what
about dessert? Do we have anythingfor dessert? I'm starting to get into
dessert lately, but yeah, Ilike ice cream. Ice cream is good.
(40:43):
We also have an Egyptian dish thatI recently made in Ramadan. It's
the rice pudding which is made withrosewater, milk and vanilla. So that's
very tasty. It's and it's arice pudding. You can put ice cream
on it, or you can putpistachios on it. It's really good.
I don't think it's just Egyptian.I think a lot of different people in
(41:05):
the Middle East love that dish.And listen, for everybody listening out there,
we're talking real vanilla, not thatimitation stuff. We're talking about real,
fragrant, delicious vanilla. Okay,pistachios are usually toasted. We're talking
the good stuff here is pulling yourcoat on something. The next time you
(41:28):
go out, or even if youwant to make it yourself, make sure
you get the real ingredients there,to get the real flavors of the community
there, Middle East, Egypt,what have you. That's the best way
to celebrate. You know, welove good food here on tell us the
truth, and we love great conversation. Certainly, rem you have provided that,
(41:49):
So thank you very much for allthat you've contributed to the world,
not just through your groundbreaking in awardwinning journalism, but also through your teaching.
You know, your spiritual healing andwhat have you. Here. This
is important stuff, and I thinkit's important that you came on the show
and provided some of this information forour listeners. And frankly, you're you're
(42:14):
always welcome to come back. Soonce again, thank you for telling us
the truth. Thank you for havingme. Duke. Excellent conversation there with
Riem and I really appreciate the factthat she did not hold back. You
know, she was very clear.That is a complete thinker right there,
whether we were discussing mental and emotionalhealth, whether we're talking about Muslim women
(42:37):
and their leadership within the culture,the community, the religion, internalized and
structural racism, not only in societiesbut in organizations as well. Just so
much, so much to unpack there, but it's timely and it's a reminder
that none of these issues are goingaway, and it's something that we are
(43:00):
all facing around the world, youknow, the internalized racism. Peace.
Let me start there for a secondhere, because we see it. We
see it all over the place.You know, law enforcement, for example,
people like to talk about white dominantculture supremacy and what have you within
(43:23):
institutions like law enforcement. And Ithink that when something happens like, let's
say that a person is being mistreatedor brutalized, there's overreached by law enforcement
within their interactions with people. Ifthe law enforcement officer who is inflicting these
(43:45):
things onto a person of color isalso a person of color, you have
folks say, oh, well,you know, race is no big deal
there, because you know, howcan to be a race issue? And
they're both people of color, they'reboth black, they're both whatever, right,
both Asian, they're both Latino,they're both non white, And that's
silly, and that's a misconception.And I know that ninety nine of everyone
(44:07):
listening right now knows that I'm preachingto the choir. But I'm certain that
there's someone in there out there listeningright now who may be unclear. So
let me help you get some clarityhere. Institutional and structural racism is just
(44:27):
that it's about the culture within theinstitution. It's about the culture within the
structure. Anyone can uphold and inflictthat regardless of their race, because again,
it's a cultural issue, right,So, just because you see an
officer inflict some type of civil rightsviolation or have you onto a person,
(44:53):
and they're both people of color.That doesn't mean that that's not a form
of racism happening right there. AndI know that there's a bait and switch
going on, especially with people whoknow this and who are very well educated,
but who benefit from the system stayingthe way that it is, and
they will go out of their way. And you see it with a lot
(45:14):
of elected officials who don't want thingsto change, right, so they'll go
out of their way as oh,there's no big deal. Oh well,
they try to do this whole baitand switch nonsense. No systems, structures,
institutions. We need to change thosethings in order to roll back and
(45:36):
hopefully defeat these issues that every singleone of us have to confront every single
day, every single day. Youknow, I'm using the example of police,
but let's let's take banking for example. People of color, especially black
and brown people, are less likelyto have their homes appraised at the same
(46:01):
rate as as white people could bethe same exact home, identical homes,
same situations, same neighborhood, sameeverything. The people of color going to
get a praise for less traditionally consistently, and I'm not talking about something that
has happened, you know, thirtyyears ago. I'm talking about to this
day. Look it up. Youcan find so many instances around the nation.
(46:22):
It's embarrassing. Right banks are notgiving loans to people of color at
the same rate that they would giveto white people, even if all things
are equal, same financial status andwhat have you, same situation and everything.
You can go down the list.In education, I just saw a
(46:45):
blind study the other day where theyhad a group of teachers observing a group
of preschool children, and the exercisewas to point out when a child is
misbehaved being in the video right orin the observation. And there were children
of all different races there. Themajority of these teachers were focused on the
(47:10):
black boy as opposed to all theother children. Think about that, this
is this is this is bias.And by the way, the children were
not misbehaving in any way. Thechildren were brought in as performers, as
actors basically just sit around and onit at a table amongst each other and
just play, so there's nothing wronggoing on. But these teachers were focused
(47:35):
on the black boy in particular andhypersensitive about what's he doing. That is
that is the system and the structureof the institution right there that have trained
you into believing if you have toidentify a problem, more than likely it's
going to be that person all theway down to a child. So we
(47:59):
got to talk about it. Wegot to keep talking about it, and
we have to keep confronting it.And we have to keep putting the pressure
on our elected officials, and wehave to keep putting the pressure on our
media, and we have to keepputting the pressure on each other and holding
all of that accountable in order tochange these things. Well, you had
a black president, you had ablack governor, you had a black mayor,
(48:22):
you have a woman who's a governor. There's no problems here. This
is the nonsense that people say andpeople think it. I'm not just talking
about the people who want to upholdthe institution. Even people who would would
think of themselves as being part ofthe solution will come up with these kind
of you know, slip into thistype of lazy thinking. It happens.
(48:47):
I venture to say that we allat some point of being guilty other Well,
you know, we have that personin place now in this position of
power, so yeah, things aregoing to change. And then your hands
off after that right, and thenyou're shocked when not only do the system
they don't change, but potentially getworse. Because that's just one layer.
(49:15):
That's just one level. Right,If you put somebody in charge of a
department, if you put somebody ina position as an elected official, if
you if you recruit somebody and whatever, they can only do as much as
they can do. But you stillgotta look internally into the system itself and
(49:36):
keep working on everything from top tobottom right full service. It's important because
what is the domino effect of leavingthings away that they are. We could
even talk about sexism in that regard. The way women are disrespected, especially
women of color, are disrespected inour society as a whole worldwide. It
(49:58):
is terrifying and embarrassing and scary becausewe act as if it's okay. One
of the most blatant examples of this, you know, you listen to the
way that people, including our formerpresident Donald Trump, speak about women.
It's a prime example. You know, she's nasty, that's not my type
(50:23):
in etcetera, etcetera, etcetera,etcetera. Right, think about that,
But that's not unique. You thinkit is at first glance, but it's
not. You start you start listeningto some of these folks who are in
charge of churches, moss et cetera, et cetera, religious leaders, and
(50:46):
you listen to some of the rhetoricbeing utilized to uphold this notion that women
are supposed to be to some degreesubservient to men, and you realize,
WHOA what is going on here?And again, this is worldwide. It's
(51:07):
worldwide. This isn't just a problemover there, It's a problem everywhere,
which is why we all need todo our part to help usher in some
type of change and then to maintainthe change and build upon that change.
It is a lifelong purpose. Thisisn't a fad diet, right. Change
(51:32):
is not a fad diet. Changeis a lifestyle, and it will not
happen overnight. There is so muchthat could potentially happen, but there is
so much that won't happen In ourlifetime. We will not see most of
(51:52):
the change that we are responsible forhelping usher in, but it has to
start somewhere. It is amazing whenI look back on things that I've done,
especially in the political space, advocacyspace. You know, you work
(52:15):
on a project developing let's say,a police a piece of land. Right,
we have a we have a pieceof land called the Boston State Hospital
and it used to be a mentalhealth institution and what have you that was
closed a long time ago. Itis a massive plot of land, massive
(52:36):
and it had stayed undeveloped for mostof my life. When I was a
kid, still in high school andI was an intern, I worked for
one of the top elected officials.And one of the first things that I
had to gather research on, goto meetings, go to community meetings on,
and write reports about help was developingportions of the Boston State Hospital grounds.
(53:07):
And that was the beginning, right, I'm fifteen, sixteen years old
doing this, Right, that wasthe beginning. And from that came a
senior building, where are our elderfolks were able to live, especially if
(53:30):
they could if they only needed likea visiting nurse, let's say, to
check on them, what have you. You know, From that came development
of housing for a whole cross sectionof people, a biologic lab, a
school, you know, not justhousing for rent, but housing for people
(53:51):
to own. And to this dayit's still being developed. Well, goodness,
gracious, I'll be forty one laterthis year. I'm talking about something
that I started doing when I wasfifteen, sixteen years old. That's a
whole lifetime ago, especially, youknow, thanks to COVID, that's a
(54:14):
whole lifetime ago. There's so manythings that can happen in that period of
time and that has had that havehappened in that period of time, right,
Think about that. Think about that, man. There's a possibility that
(54:34):
I'm not going to see the finishedproduct of the development of that land,
but it had to start at somepoint, and even the process to do
the development started many years before.I was a little intern and running around
pushing papers and going to meetings,trying to gain perspective on what the heck
is going on, and just reallyjust following direction. Right. It's funny
(55:01):
my grandmother at one point lived atthat senior home, which is a hell
of an irony when you think aboutthe fact that this is the first project
that I had ever worked on.You know, it took a lot of
time, man, but it's it'sstill going. Where I live Boston,
(55:27):
Massachusetts, we have declared racism apublic health emergency, not only in the
city but also in the state.The same place where there was busing and
an enormous amount of racism, youknow, where they were taking children from
their neighborhoods and literally on school buses, sending them to other neighborhoods to have
(55:49):
school, breaking up this whole neighborhoodschools inequity thing, because what they found
is neighborhoods that were majority white,those kids were getting a far better education
than neighborhoods that were not majority white. Right, somehow, some way they
were. They had the best books, and they had the highest performing teachers,
and therefore they had the best testscores and all this other nonsense.
(56:14):
How to break that up? Andthe many of the white citizens in Boston
didn't like that. They were throwingrocks and bricks at school buses. It's
all archives, you can. Youcan look it up. People talk about
all the time, or fights,people got beaten, bloody, all kinds
(56:37):
of stuff. Man. This isthis is when my mother and my aunts
and my uncles were of that age. They were school age, and this
was happening. Twenty twenty, wedeclared Boston and in racism in Boston a
(56:57):
public health emergency. I'm talking aboutbusting, which was happening in the seventies.
Man, you do the math.Takes time, takes effort. Got
to keep the pressure on, can'tstop. Gotta hold each other accountable on
this stuff. Just the way youhave to be And a lot of what
(57:22):
Riem is talking about, what arethe effects of these things, the some
of all parts here from an emotionaland a spiritual standpoint, it can really
wear you out. So you alsohave to take stock and take time and
make sure that you're tending to yourneeds as a human being. You can't
fight the good fight if you're sobeaten down that you've lost your strength.
(57:46):
Sometimes you gotta shut it down andrest, recharge the batteries reset. Right.
We all go through it. Weall go through it, but it's
important at if you need help,you seek it out and you know someone
(58:07):
like Rahem and the services that sheoffers. It's it's so necessary, man,
we all we can't all do iton our own. Sometimes you need
to see a professional. Sometimes youneed a support system to kind of help
you just stay clear. That couldbe a mentor, that could be a
whomever, doctor, some type ofprofessional whatever. But we can't do it
(58:31):
on our own. It's a lotand especially when you're talking about situations where
at the end of the day,we're talking about life and death. Here,
it's a lot. So you know, I encourage everybody out there just
make sure that you're staying focused,keeping the pressure on, including yourself,
(58:55):
but you're taking your time at thesame time to make sure that you're good.
You can't help me if you're nothelping yourself, that's for sure.
Anyways, Always, folks, bekind to yourselves and be kind to others.
This is E. Duke Bennett andyou've been listening to tell Us the
Truth. Tell Us the Truth isproduced in Boston in association with iHeartMedia and
(59:21):
WBZ News Radio.
Rem Abdu Latif is a trauma informedcoach, Egyptian American former journalist all around
just a realm of all trades,so to speak, and she is here
to share information about her incredible life, also the work that she does and
offer some solutions to some major problemsthat we all face in society. My
(00:26):
name is e Duke Bennett and thisis tell us the Truth. Hi,
my name is rem Abdu Latif.I'm an Egyptian American ex journalist and a
trauma informed coach, and I'm hereto tell you the truth. I used
to work in corporate journalism. Iwas an international correspondent working for organizations like
(00:47):
The Wall Street Journal in the LaTimes, covering violence in the Middle East
in different places around the world.And if you don't tend to your mental
and emotional health, you can faceseveral healing crisis I call them. You
can face several health issues that arisebecause the emotional body and the mental body
(01:12):
are very in the physical body arevery much interconnected. Well, Reem,
this is definitely a conversation that I'vebeen really looking forward to because you have
challenged by thinking on a lot ofthings, and you have provided some phrases
that go along and help me understandcertain things a little better. So one
(01:32):
of the first places I want tostart here in this conversation is internal decolonization.
What does that mean? And howdid you come up with that?
Oh? My goodness, that's likea big term to unpack, isn't it.
Internal decolonization is literally shedding yourself ofany outside teachings that go against who
(01:56):
you authentically are. And what Imean by that is, you know,
oftentimes we're all feeding off of thedifferent platforms we look at TV, society
upbringing, and when I talk aboutinternal decalization, I'm talking about also the
shedding ourselves of you know, falsekind of responsibilities that we put on ourselves.
(02:21):
It's being authentic to who we areand you know, what we want
to be, and also respecting thespace of where we are now and where
we want to be. Um notjumping too far ahead in the future,
not jumping too far ahead in thepast, because the past is done.
But when we colonize internally, weare essentially taking back our freedom from the
(02:42):
trauma that we've inherited from our ancestors, a trauma that we've created. You
know, we've experienced in our lifetime. No one hasn't experienced a traumatic event.
We all experienced a collective traumatic eventwhen the pandemic happened. And you
know that that also gave me sometime to kind of look back during lockdown
and look at you know, thedifferent parts of my life that I could
(03:07):
do without the different um you know. So you know, sometimes we haven't
we didn't we didn't forgive a coworker, or we haven't for forgiven our
parents for whatever. We haven't forgivenour grandmother for you know whatever. Growing
up and sometimes we have to reallytake a step back and you know,
say, you know, my ancestors, my people did the best that they
(03:29):
could with the knowledge that they had, and they too were colonized, especially
if you're coming from a community ofcolor, or if you're coming from the
Middle East, which is you know, I'm originally Egyptian American as I told
you, and mixed with different umyou know, Palestinian and Saudi roots as
(03:50):
well, and so we faced alot of colonization, both from external uh
colonizers and internal as well. Sothere's a lot, you know that goes
behind that. But at the endof the day, it really is about
shedding everything that is not serving youand it is not authentically you. That's
(04:12):
an interesting concept, and I knowthat a lot of people are challenged by
that because we live in a socialmedia day and age. So you can
log onto all the different fancy socialmedia sites Facebook, TikTok, Instagram,
Twitter, and you can find alot of like minded people who you can
(04:36):
share information with, learn from,teach, But you can also find a
lot of detractors, you know,people who go out of their way to
twist your words or disagree to thepoint of harassment. And what have you
to me about your experience in thatregard, because you know, quite frankly,
(04:57):
reim you've been a hot button personinternationally. You know, a lot
of people have some strong opinions ofyou because of the fact that you were
so upfront about your views and you'renot afraid to stand firm on them,
right. Yeah. Absolutely, I'vehad a lot of issues online, you
know, being a journalist, youknow, and I hate to say this,
a female journalist, you know,but you know, sadly these labels
(05:23):
are politicized against us, so we'regoing to have to use them. As
a woman journalist, um, Ifaced a lot of attacks from my work,
whether it was talking about anti abortionlaws in the US or talking about,
um, you know, the falsereforms that are being adopted in places
like Saudi Arabia in the Middle Eastor the United Arab Emirates. I worked
(05:45):
in both domains, in different countries, and I faced online attacks because of
that. You know, I wascalled you know, everything that you could
imagine. It's public, it's published, you know, all of this is
public. I was called horrible namesthat you know, I don't want to
say them because they might get bleepedout in this interview, but they are,
(06:06):
you know, horrible names, slutshamed as well, and these are
all terms specifically used to intimidate women. They are you know, they're not
gender neutral terms, you know whatI mean. So all that being said,
I remember, I think it wasPrince who said this, and I
(06:27):
really do appreciate this quote from Princewhen he said, you can use technology,
but don't let it use you.And that's the approach that I very
much adopt when I use technology.You know, we all fall into the
trap and sometimes I have to catchmyself right to make sure why am I
posting this? Am I posting thisjust to get attention, or am I
(06:49):
just posting it to be true andauthentic to who I am? And if
it's not the latter answer, thenI'm not going to post it. Or
you know, if I look atsomeone else and they're doing great and or
they're in Bali or whatever, andyou know, I got to catch myself.
Am I truly happy for them?Or am I just comparing like where
I am? Now? You knowwhat I mean, And you just have
(07:10):
to be careful, like it's ait's a very thin line, and we
have to we have to limit,you know. I remember before we started,
you know, before we connected torecord this episode, I told you
that I wasn't feeling well, soI took a break from social media.
I took a break from you know, online, just to kind of recharge.
(07:30):
And you know, you come backwhen you're ready and you engage with
it. How you feel again istruthful to who you are? You know,
I wonder realm especially again in thissocial media age, you're somebody who
is very effective at using video marketing, short clips and things like that where
(07:50):
you give affirmations information. You're stilldoing some form of reporting on things going
on in the world on your socialmedia, which I appreciate. It's good
content there. Do you feel partof the reactions that you get, whether
positive or negative, but I meanbecause they are plentiful. How much of
(08:13):
that has to do with the factthat not only that you're a woman,
but you know, you're a womanwho knows how to utilize marketing properly.
How much does that affect the reactionthat you receive. Yeah, that's a
very good question. It affects ita lot. So let me let me
unpack a little bit about my background. So I used to work in the
(08:37):
Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emiratesfor about five years and it got to
a point where, you know,things were changing politically and I was changing
too. If we're not changing likeno, one never changes like that is
the eternal fact of life that we'reall always evolving or devolving. But it's
still changed. So you know,in the Middle East, I um,
(09:01):
you started acknowledging certain things and Iwas being truthful to who I am and
speaking out against certain things. Iwas tasked with helping the Saudi government build
a global media platform in English.That would you know, And at the
time, I thought, you know, this is great. You know,
if we're going to debunk prejudice anddebunk you know, racism, we need
(09:24):
this kind of platform in the MiddleEast. But it wasn't really that I
was being tokenized as a smart womanwho looked good on marketing, you know
what I mean. Um And Ididn't like that when I when I realized
that that was the case and therewas no true reforms happening. And then
I also faced some harassment within theworkplace. I didn't appreciate that obviously,
(09:46):
UM. So I took a stepdown, and then I wrote about it.
I wrote about it. Um.You know, we all we all
heard of, maybe all of us, but some people heard of the partnership,
the recent partnership between the United ArabEmirates and Israel. M Before this
partnership even took place, I waspublished in a prominent left wing, progressive
(10:09):
Israeli newspaper. I actually became thefirst Egyptian Muslim American woman to be published
in that paper. Um. Andyou can read some of my articles on
my website. But you know,shortly after the UAE made a peace deal
with Israel, but it became illegalin the United Arab Emirates to criticize the
(10:30):
state of Israel, which is somethingthat I actually did it. You know,
I still criticize the state of Israel. And I was accepted to write
to this Israeli newspaper. So longstory, sure, you know, being
a woman who was tokenized in thissense, you know, was something that
(10:50):
I couldn't accept. And I couldn'taccept showing up under someone else's terms while
hiding like other parts of myself.So if you're not going to celebrate me
fully, you know, that's nothealthy. That's not something that I want
to be a part of, youknow. And I found and I found
myself being vocal in an Israeli newspaper, but not being able to be vocal
(11:13):
and communities who you know, mightspeak my own language or you know,
share some other identities that we have. There can be no justice, no
peace if we don't accept our ownif we don't accept each other. And
what I mean by that is Imean you have you know, one of
my issues with in Saudi Arabia andthe UAE is that women like me who
(11:37):
may not be a traditional Muslim.And I put that I raise air quotes.
You can't see it, but I'mraising air quotes. Women like me,
who might not be a traditional Muslimor traditional Middle Eastern are not actually
accepted in these communities. You areaccepted only if you adopt a certain tone.
And I've experienced this also in theUS. Men, any of us,
(12:00):
as women of color or people ofcolor in general, have experienced this.
In the United States, some ofus experience it on a daily basis.
If we are not to celebrate andvalidate and accept one another, it's
not just about tolerance anymore. We'reentering an era. And we see it
with all these different protests in Tennesseeand you know, all over the country
(12:22):
here in the US, and thenyou have it going on in the Middle
East in different parts of the world. We see that young people want to
be accepted and not just tolerated.They want to be validated for who they
are. And if we don't startdoing that and stop tokenizing one another and
kind of like treating people as commodities, you know, colonization is not just
(12:48):
when we talk about colonization, it'snot just government or you know, it
happens inside homes, it happens insidecommunities. It's happening here in the US,
and we're fighting it. We're seeingyoung people gen Z fighting millennials fighting
it every day, and I thinkit's very important that you know, we
(13:09):
are able to show up as ourfull true selves. So what happened when
you stepped away from journalism? Becauseyou know, one of the cool things
about listening to you speak is thatit's very clear that you are a complete
thinker. You know, you're You'renot just saying a bunch of words out
there and then trying to backtrack andhave to apologize or you know, try
(13:31):
to explain a different way. No, you know what you're talking about,
which is refreshing, because unfortunately,I think that's a lost art these days.
A lot of people they don't knowwhat they're talking about, and they
speak before they've actually taken the timeto understand their own thoughts. But you're
the complete opposite here. Someone likeyou is needed in terms of journalism,
(13:52):
news, getting the facts out,exploring what's really going on around the world.
But you took a step back,You took a step away and transition
into something else. So what happenedWhere are we at now? Well,
first of all, thank you forfor that. Um, I think I
didn't fully take a step back Iam writing on my own terms, um
(14:18):
writing, working on a few booksin the works. Can't say too much
about it now, but I think, you know, my work has taken
on a different shape, and itreally is and I'm healthier for it,
and I'm happier for it. Itreally is just changing, you know,
doing what I love, taking whattaking what I've learned as a journalist and
(14:41):
adopting it into a different platform ora different practice. And that, you
know, leads me to my healingpractice and my coaching practice, and you
know, the writing and all ofthat, and my work on social media,
my videos. I'm taking it toa different um level. And you
know, we hear this cliche,and it's not It's not really cliche because
(15:03):
I faced this throughout my career withthe different attacks and you know, um
issues that have come up because Iwasn't fully accepted, whether it was in
the US, not being in someyou know, you know American corporate organizations
or you know places you might notI was not accepted as a Muslim woman
(15:26):
or a Middle Eastern, a womanof Middle Eastern origin. I was not
fully accepted and celebrated, like Isaid earlier, and then in the Middle
East. I faced the same thing. So that leads me to the cliche
that I wanted to wanted to say, is that if you know when you
found when I found myself in thesecertain situations, it's because I was,
you know, being guided to createsomething new. And sometimes leaders have to
(15:48):
walk alone for a little bit untilyou know they can, you know,
come across other people of similar youknow, that's how you and I connected.
Um, you know, we wehave to kind of step out on
our own to prioritize our mental health, to prioritize what we want to do,
because we see, we saw thishappening in the pandemic. A lot
(16:10):
of people had had to leave theirjobs, whether it was because of cuts,
corporate cuts, the recession, orsimply because they couldn't do that work
anymore. It was too stressful tomaintain. And that's very important. You
know, I will always be ajournalist at heart, I'll always be a
writer. I you know, I'mconstantly writing script from my videos. I'm
(16:34):
constantly working on different books and youknow, speaking to publishers about my book.
You know what I mean, likethat work has to take on a
different um you know, medium oridentity and it's just I think it's if
you're happy doing what you're doing,there's only you can only go up from
(16:55):
there. What can potential clients expectto see if they want to partake?
And you know what you offer herebecause it's it's again like you said from
the very beginning, it's very complex. You have a very particular style,
a particular coaching method when it comesto healing, redefined. So what can
(17:18):
people expect if they want to checkyou out, Well, they can expect
redefined in a perspective, when itcomes to healing, it is not easy.
You know. People see me online, they see the the put together
me, But when you're healing,it is not easy, and you have
to face a lot of demons.You have to face your own demons,
(17:41):
and you have to face your ownbullshit. You know, you have to
call yourself out sometimes, and that'sthe hardest part, you know, obviously
as a trauma and formed coach,I try my best, and you know,
and I do my best, likeyou said, to think before I
speak, and to all of thethings, of the good things. But
(18:02):
sometimes it can be triggering to faceyour own demons. Sometimes it can be
triggering to look in the mirror,and all I'm doing is holding up a
mirror for people. Do you likewhat you see? If there are certain
things you're not you know, youdon't like, we can work on them
while at the same time extending ourselvesgrace as we go through this process.
Because you know, I said earlier, some of the things that we go
(18:26):
through are learned from society or communitiesor ancestors or parents or whatever. But
a lot of times, you know, we also take on certain beliefs and
carry them and it can be tooheavy. It can be too heavy to
carry that belief Sometimes we have internalizedracism. We see this in the United
States today, you know, andit happens when you see a you know,
(18:51):
a black police officer beating or killinganother black man for whatever reason.
There's no excuse for that. Anda lot of that and like I've witnessed
also in Egypt, when I sawEgyptian police officers killing and murdering or harassing
Egyptians and Egyptian women. A lotof that is internalized colonization. And none
(19:15):
of that is easy. It's alot to unpack. You know, I'm
not saying we have to unlearn everything. We also have to look at the
past with a certain appreciation because itgot us here today. Without our ancestors,
without literally climbing on our parents andour ancestors backs, we wouldn't be
where we are today. But ifwe don't like the demons that are keeping
(19:40):
us, holding us basically hostage frombeing able to reach our full potential,
whatever we feel that, maybe thenwe're going to have to face that.
And so my clients can expect asafe space to be themselves. They can
expect a safe space, but atthe end of the day, it's something
that you got to show up willingto do. You got to show up
(20:02):
being committed to yourself. There's noother way. And that is why I
appreciate every single person that comes tome because I know in order for them
to reach this stage of you know, asking someone else to facilitate their healing,
there was a lot of inner workthey had to do before getting there,
and I appreciate them for that.So this is holistic healing, for
(20:26):
lack of a better phrase, right, yeah, it's it is. It's
coaching different healing modalities that are verymuch rooted in my own indigenous practice as
an Egyptian, you know, asa spiritual Muslim, you know, as
I also work with others to helpto be a healing facilitator, I find
(20:49):
that I unlock certain things for myself, and you know it, in the
past few months, one of thethings that I noticed is that I also
have to be true too. Ihave to show up true to who I
am fully, and I'm many differentthings. And you know, one of
the beautiful things about you know,we're in Ramadan right now. You know,
(21:11):
maybe Rabada will be over by thetime this episode is aired. But
and it's interesting that, you know, after tapping into who who my ancestors
were, after tapping into who Iam as a person, my work also
changed for the better, you know, it became more holistic, like you
just said, So, yeah,there are different modalities. There are There's
(21:34):
a mirror work, which involves speakingaffirmations into the mirror, and it really
depends on where you are or wherethe person is in their journey. There's
unlearning work. You know. Sometimespeople come and they're like, you know,
I'm doing this and I'm doing that, and I just want to stop
doing it, and then we haveto work on unlearning that. And sometimes
(21:56):
there's also um you know, unpackingtrauma, which can be a little bit
obviously triggering, but you know,there there are ways to do that in
a healthy, non invasive way,if you will, UM, such as
hypnotherapy, for example, which issomething that I'm also licensed in UM as
(22:19):
a life coach. Well, andI'm glad that you just said that,
because that was definitely my next question. I mean, for people out there
who are listening to you right nowand are interested in what you offer.
But you know, it's always aquestion, I mean, what makes you
qualified to be able to provide theseteachers? Well, other than the courses
(22:41):
and the certifications that I've gotten,UM, I am a certified Ricky Healer,
Ricky Healer, and I'm also certifiedto teach RAKI. I've completed all
of the courses required. I ama you know, certified life coach by
the American Board of NP neurol NeurologuisticProgramming, UM, you know. And
(23:06):
other than all of that, Ithink really what it comes down to is
the fact that I'm coming from aplace of experience, UM I UM,
I'm a survivor of child sexual abuse, UM you know, and that's something
that was very difficult for me toovercome. It took many years for me
to get here. Um. Youknow, I've stood up to different dictators
(23:30):
around the world and in different workcommunities. UM. You know, I
I have had to kind of walkthrough the fire as well. UM.
And I'm not saying, you know, every healer has to come from that
kind of perspective, but you know, you know I co founded during the
(23:51):
pandemic, I co founded an organizationcalled the African Women Rights Advocates and it
is a it is an organization thatis very much founded by survivors. And
we talked about the importance of havingsurvivor based healing in different communities around the
world and survivor based activism in thein the power that lies in survivor based
(24:17):
activism, especially from coming from ahealed perspective. Um. You know,
I don't even feel the deed tocall myself a survivor constantly anymore, because
I've I've gotten to, you know, that place where what has happened to
me is not part of me.You know, trauma happens to us and
(24:37):
it you know, it changes somethinginside of us internally, but we have
the power to change it back.We might not forget what happened. It
might be difficult and it is difficultto change it back, but you have
to be willing, like I saidearlier, and you have to be committed,
committed to your own healing, committedto your invested in your own healing,
(25:00):
because if you don't invest in yourown healing, then you're not committed.
And I found that, you know, the more committed that I've been
on my journey, the more resourcesshowed up. I did mention all the
certifications and all of that, buthonestly, when it comes down to it,
it's speaking from experience, lived experience. You know, you brought it
up a few times here as werecord this, we have Ramadan going on,
(25:25):
and it's interesting because we're in twentytwenty three and so much has happened
over you know, the past fewdecades, and especially when we think of
different situations throughout the world, warsand military conflict and uprisings and etcetera,
(25:47):
etcetera, etcetera. And for somecrazy reason, and it continues to this
day, brown skin Muslims in particularare still demonized and treated like some kind
of boogeyman, and it's heartbreaking andfrustrating. Despite all that's happened throughout the
(26:10):
world. We continue to not onlywe combine racism and xenophobia together to create
this problem here. Is it gettingany better for the modern Muslim especially here
in the United States? I mean, you know, I know that you
can only speak from your experience andpeople who you know, what have you,
(26:32):
But you have a perspective. What'syour take. It's a very good
question. Okay. Is it gettingbetter in institutions, in different corporations.
It's a fight, it's a strugglebecause they're no. There are people out
there who still have that, Likeyou said, it's heartbreaking. They still
(26:53):
have their combining that xenophobia and Islamophobiato label people with hate. They create
labels to further box people in them. But is it getting better for me
as realm? Is it getting betterfor my clients who I work with to
help with the decolonization process, Yes, it is getting better. Why because
(27:15):
we refuse to be boxed in thoselabels simply that like I refuse to be
you know, boxed in. Andyou can see this throughout my career.
When I was being boxed in ina certain persona or label, when I
was in Saudi, I took thatoff and walked away. When if I'm
being boxed in here in certain communities, that's that's your that's the other person's
(27:41):
limited perception. Xenophobia islamophobia, thatis your limited perception. And if you're
choosing to see me through that lens, that's your problem, because then if
you don't have women like me orpeople like me in your institution or your
corporation, you're not going to beable to thrive in the new world,
in this evolving world that we wereconstantly evolving every day, you know.
(28:06):
And one of the beautiful things aboutyou know, my my spiritual practice is
that at one point, I also, you know, had my own issues
with internalized colonization, and I faceda lot of discrimination for being a woman
inside certain Muslim communities. And againI had to unlearn all of that because
(28:27):
that was the other person's limited perspective. I couldn't let that affect how I
practice my religion or my spiritual spirituality. That has nothing to do with me.
So, you know, I thinkit's important that we are able to
separate ourselves from that and to understandthat while it may not be and it
(28:52):
will get better, you know,things I feel like things get worse before
they get better. We are actuallyseeing this, you know, the Islamic
phobia and all of these issues happeningbecause they're coming to the surface to be
purged, you know, as acollective. You know, a lot of
people don't even believe that the prophetMuhammad in Islam, that he was a
prophet. A lot of people don'tbelieve that in different spiritual that's fine,
(29:15):
you don't have to believe it.But again, in a world where we
are preaching as progressive people and Iconsider myself very much progressive, progressive,
and a world where we are preachingacceptance, tolerance, in celebrating the other,
you have to acknowledge there. Youneed to acknowledge it in order for
(29:36):
us to move forward. You can'tcompletely disregard in shame or you know,
exclude any community at this point.That's not sustainable. That's not a sustainable
environment for us to live in aspeople. You know, there are so
many different elements, elements to unpackhere. But like I said, it
(30:00):
will not be sustainable if we don'tlearn how to accept one another. And
what you know, when we arefaced with that racism or z homophobia or
xenophobia, we do have to separateourselves from it and make sure that we're
not allowing ourselves to live in thoseboxes, those labels that people use to
(30:22):
disenfranchise one another. If that makessense, it makes perfect sense. And
I'm glad that you brought up someof the internal challenges that happen within the
community, you know, within theMuslim community, because I'll tell you and
for folks listening, take a stepback and think about this. Religion is
(30:45):
an interesting thing, and most ofthe religions that we know of that are
the predominant religions around the world,it's very clear that men are the ones
who led the teaching because it's menwho are ordained as the supreme leaders.
(31:06):
You know, we've never had afemale pope in a lot of other types
of Christian religions that if you havea woman who's a bishop, people act
like they're about to go to warover that. You know, So from
your perspective realm as someone who's livedit in living it as someone this is
your life, this is your culture, this is your community. In twenty
(31:29):
twenty three, is their room withinIslam for women to not only lead side
by side with men, but evenfrom women to lead period and be treated
and thought of as equal, maybenot by everybody, but at least by
the greater community that is of thereligion. Is is that possible today and
(31:56):
going forward? I'm so glad youasked this question. I'm here right,
I'm sitting here talking to you,So there definitely is And the way that
I got here today is through leadership. So there definitely is room, and
we are definitely taking up the spacesthat we are being guided to take.
(32:21):
I wouldn't be here if there wasn'tspace. I wouldn't be here if I
didn't follow my spiritual intuition, myinner guidance to get here today. And
you know what, Like I talkedabout the negative side of working in the
Middle East or in Muslim communities,I'm going to talk about the positive as
well, both in the United Stateswhere I am based now and also you
(32:44):
know, in the Middle East.When I was in the Middle East,
I worked for an organization called ourCom which means Numbers, And this was
before they got taken over by theSaudi government. That's when I ended up
leaving. But that was a familyowned business, Saudi family owned business,
and I actually became the first womaneditor in chief of their publication. And
(33:07):
during that time, the organization gota reward, an award from they got
acknowledged for using social media for thebetterment of the Arab world, and they
got that from Sheik Maktoum in Dubai. That is a very prestigious award that
I was happy to kind of helpbring to the finish line. And like
I said, I was the firstfemale editor in chief in the history of
(33:30):
that company. I had a veryprominent leadership position which I got to travel
all over the region, got tosee things that you know, really opened
up my mind and helped my ownperception of Middle Eastern culture as well as
someone who grew up in the UnitedStates. And here in the US,
we see a lot of people whoare you know that we have a lot
(33:54):
of space in the United States tobe able to freely express ourselves and we
have to um. You know,we have to take advantage of that,
and we are taking advantage of thatas women, as and not just as
women, but as people who perceivethe religion from a different perspective. We
have rights to be able to um. We have the right to be able
(34:17):
to express that and there's definitely space, there's definitely a need for it.
Verna lookout history and you mentioned therewas no female pope and that's you know,
that's also sad there. You know, there's not a lot of spiritual
and even when when we talk aboutspiritual Muslim leaders, they are not of
(34:40):
the mystic or Sufi side. Theyare a very much traditional scope, which
again that's something that we as acommunity have to unlearn and unpack and we're
doing it, you know, Andsometimes people like me might feel weird or
ashamed to be Muslim and loud andproud, you know what I mean.
(35:00):
I call it coming out of thespiritual closet. But I'm going to show
up as me regardless. There areother people also, other women showing up
as themselves regardless. We have ArabAmericans and you know Muslim Americans in different
you know, walks of life,and in the model industries, you have
um you know, different people onTV that you know, and everyone is
(35:24):
showing up the way they authentically,authentic to who they are UM And in
Islam, you know, there's avery interesting um story in Islam and in
the history of Islam, a lotof times the women and who the daughters
of the prophet or the prophet's wives, they would lead. They would be
(35:47):
in battle shoulder to shoulder with themen. Although they didn't have to be
they they they you know, theydidn't have to be there, but they
would show up. They still showedup up. And a lot of the
hadis, or the sayings of theprophets that are most accurate and that are
acknowledged as accurate, are said bywomen. And then you have also the
(36:13):
story of Mary Magdalene and Jesus thatis often ignored in Christian biblical practice.
We only hear about the apostles,we only hear about John, and you
know, the different male figures,like you said, But no, women
are very much there, and thatis who we're channeling. That is who
(36:35):
you know, who we're you know, we're here, like I said,
to take up the spaces were meantto be. If I didn't follow my
intuition, which I personally believe iscoming from the Divine, that I wouldn't
be here today. So no onecan tell me that, you know,
oh no, there's no room foryou. I'm going to make room.
If you're not going to allow meto have a seat at the table.
(36:55):
I'm going to make my own table. I'll sit on the floor. You
know what I mean is different waysto do it, and I think we
are definitely. We're definitely doing it. And you have to take what's yours.
You can't wait for someone to giveit to you. Lorriem, you
have me all excited here. Umagain. You know you're you're a complete
(37:15):
thinker. You provide some great informationand you have the experience. You have
the lived experience, you have theeducation to back up why you are the
way that you are, and forthat reason, you're able to counsel and
provide services to others who need aspiritual awakening for awakening for lack of a
(37:35):
better term there, Why don't youlet everybody know the best way that they
can keep up with you, includinganyone who wants to partake in some of
your teachings. Yeah. So Iam on Instagram primarily. I also have
a website with different offerings coaching methodsand tools that you know, services that
(37:58):
I can offer, and you knowevery method every person needs a different method,
So I totally respect that. Alot of my coaching is also Taylor
made for different circumstances, different people, from different walks of life. So
it would primarily be my website,Healing Slash Redefined dot com and on Instagram.
(38:20):
I'm on Twitter, not as activebecause of the shadow banning that's been
going on, but yeah, youcan definitely find me on my website.
You can reach out by email andwe'll take it from there. Okay,
Rien, Before I let you go, I got to ask you a very
important question. It's a question Ilove to ask all my guests because it's
(38:44):
it's always interesting to hear these responses, but for you in particular, especially
as we have Ramadan this time ofyear, and what have you? When
it's time to break fast, whichyou know, you know at least when
I have partaken before. You know, you break fast with a date and
then you get on with the feast. What's a what's a great ream meal?
(39:09):
Especially if if it's not quick andit's something that you really want to
sit down and enjoy and what haveyou? What are you getting into?
Um? Oh my god, that'ssuch a good question. I love um.
I love Middle Eastern food. Sowe have this very uh kind of
indigenous dish to Egypt. It's likeum okra stew. You can make it
(39:35):
with. You can make it veganor you can also do um, add
meat or chicken if you like,but usually I like it just the vegetables.
So it's okra red stew with tomatoes, garlic and onions, um,
and then some rice, some somewhite rice. I love that, and
a little on the side. What'sthe stew called. It's said okra stew,
(40:00):
a red okra stew. So it'smade with tomatoes and okra, vegetables
and onions and garlic. Okay,So it's not called anything else. So
if if I go to a sayinga Middle East restaurant and try to order
off the menu, is it calledanything else? It's usually called a red
ochre stew. Okay, Okay,So we have red ochra stew. We
(40:22):
have the white rice soaked that up. Are we getting any of the crispy
rice at the bottom there of thepot? You know about the crispy rice?
Oh? I know all about thecrispy rice. Absolutely. And what
about dessert? Do we have anythingfor dessert? I'm starting to get into
dessert lately, but yeah, Ilike ice cream. Ice cream is good.
(40:43):
We also have an Egyptian dish thatI recently made in Ramadan. It's
the rice pudding which is made withrosewater, milk and vanilla. So that's
very tasty. It's and it's arice pudding. You can put ice cream
on it, or you can putpistachios on it. It's really good.
I don't think it's just Egyptian.I think a lot of different people in
(41:05):
the Middle East love that dish.And listen, for everybody listening out there,
we're talking real vanilla, not thatimitation stuff. We're talking about real,
fragrant, delicious vanilla. Okay,pistachios are usually toasted. We're talking
the good stuff here is pulling yourcoat on something. The next time you
(41:28):
go out, or even if youwant to make it yourself, make sure
you get the real ingredients there,to get the real flavors of the community
there, Middle East, Egypt,what have you. That's the best way
to celebrate. You know, welove good food here on tell us the
truth, and we love great conversation. Certainly, rem you have provided that,
(41:49):
So thank you very much for allthat you've contributed to the world,
not just through your groundbreaking in awardwinning journalism, but also through your teaching.
You know, your spiritual healing andwhat have you. Here. This
is important stuff, and I thinkit's important that you came on the show
and provided some of this information forour listeners. And frankly, you're you're
(42:14):
always welcome to come back. Soonce again, thank you for telling us
the truth. Thank you for havingme. Duke. Excellent conversation there with
Riem and I really appreciate the factthat she did not hold back. You
know, she was very clear.That is a complete thinker right there,
whether we were discussing mental and emotionalhealth, whether we're talking about Muslim women
(42:37):
and their leadership within the culture,the community, the religion, internalized and
structural racism, not only in societiesbut in organizations as well. Just so
much, so much to unpack there, but it's timely and it's a reminder
that none of these issues are goingaway, and it's something that we are
(43:00):
all facing around the world, youknow, the internalized racism. Peace.
Let me start there for a secondhere, because we see it. We
see it all over the place.You know, law enforcement, for example,
people like to talk about white dominantculture supremacy and what have you within
(43:23):
institutions like law enforcement. And Ithink that when something happens like, let's
say that a person is being mistreatedor brutalized, there's overreached by law enforcement
within their interactions with people. Ifthe law enforcement officer who is inflicting these
(43:45):
things onto a person of color isalso a person of color, you have
folks say, oh, well,you know, race is no big deal
there, because you know, howcan to be a race issue? And
they're both people of color, they'reboth black, they're both whatever, right,
both Asian, they're both Latino,they're both non white, And that's
silly, and that's a misconception.And I know that ninety nine of everyone
(44:07):
listening right now knows that I'm preachingto the choir. But I'm certain that
there's someone in there out there listeningright now who may be unclear. So
let me help you get some clarityhere. Institutional and structural racism is just
(44:27):
that it's about the culture within theinstitution. It's about the culture within the
structure. Anyone can uphold and inflictthat regardless of their race, because again,
it's a cultural issue, right,So, just because you see an
officer inflict some type of civil rightsviolation or have you onto a person,
(44:53):
and they're both people of color.That doesn't mean that that's not a form
of racism happening right there. AndI know that there's a bait and switch
going on, especially with people whoknow this and who are very well educated,
but who benefit from the system stayingthe way that it is, and
they will go out of their way. And you see it with a lot
(45:14):
of elected officials who don't want thingsto change, right, so they'll go
out of their way as oh,there's no big deal. Oh well,
they try to do this whole baitand switch nonsense. No systems, structures,
institutions. We need to change thosethings in order to roll back and
(45:36):
hopefully defeat these issues that every singleone of us have to confront every single
day, every single day. Youknow, I'm using the example of police,
but let's let's take banking for example. People of color, especially black
and brown people, are less likelyto have their homes appraised at the same
(46:01):
rate as as white people could bethe same exact home, identical homes,
same situations, same neighborhood, sameeverything. The people of color going to
get a praise for less traditionally consistently, and I'm not talking about something that
has happened, you know, thirtyyears ago. I'm talking about to this
day. Look it up. Youcan find so many instances around the nation.
(46:22):
It's embarrassing. Right banks are notgiving loans to people of color at
the same rate that they would giveto white people, even if all things
are equal, same financial status andwhat have you, same situation and everything.
You can go down the list.In education, I just saw a
(46:45):
blind study the other day where theyhad a group of teachers observing a group
of preschool children, and the exercisewas to point out when a child is
misbehaved being in the video right orin the observation. And there were children
of all different races there. Themajority of these teachers were focused on the
(47:10):
black boy as opposed to all theother children. Think about that, this
is this is this is bias.And by the way, the children were
not misbehaving in any way. Thechildren were brought in as performers, as
actors basically just sit around and onit at a table amongst each other and
just play, so there's nothing wronggoing on. But these teachers were focused
(47:35):
on the black boy in particular andhypersensitive about what's he doing. That is
that is the system and the structureof the institution right there that have trained
you into believing if you have toidentify a problem, more than likely it's
going to be that person all theway down to a child. So we
(47:59):
got to talk about it. Wegot to keep talking about it, and
we have to keep confronting it.And we have to keep putting the pressure
on our elected officials, and wehave to keep putting the pressure on our
media, and we have to keepputting the pressure on each other and holding
all of that accountable in order tochange these things. Well, you had
a black president, you had ablack governor, you had a black mayor,
(48:22):
you have a woman who's a governor. There's no problems here. This
is the nonsense that people say andpeople think it. I'm not just talking
about the people who want to upholdthe institution. Even people who would would
think of themselves as being part ofthe solution will come up with these kind
of you know, slip into thistype of lazy thinking. It happens.
(48:47):
I venture to say that we allat some point of being guilty other Well,
you know, we have that personin place now in this position of
power, so yeah, things aregoing to change. And then your hands
off after that right, and thenyou're shocked when not only do the system
they don't change, but potentially getworse. Because that's just one layer.
(49:15):
That's just one level. Right,If you put somebody in charge of a
department, if you put somebody ina position as an elected official, if
you if you recruit somebody and whatever, they can only do as much as
they can do. But you stillgotta look internally into the system itself and
(49:36):
keep working on everything from top tobottom right full service. It's important because
what is the domino effect of leavingthings away that they are. We could
even talk about sexism in that regard. The way women are disrespected, especially
women of color, are disrespected inour society as a whole worldwide. It
(49:58):
is terrifying and embarrassing and scary becausewe act as if it's okay. One
of the most blatant examples of this, you know, you listen to the
way that people, including our formerpresident Donald Trump, speak about women.
It's a prime example. You know, she's nasty, that's not my type
(50:23):
in etcetera, etcetera, etcetera,etcetera. Right, think about that,
But that's not unique. You thinkit is at first glance, but it's
not. You start you start listeningto some of these folks who are in
charge of churches, moss et cetera, et cetera, religious leaders, and
(50:46):
you listen to some of the rhetoricbeing utilized to uphold this notion that women
are supposed to be to some degreesubservient to men, and you realize,
WHOA what is going on here?And again, this is worldwide. It's
(51:07):
worldwide. This isn't just a problemover there, It's a problem everywhere,
which is why we all need todo our part to help usher in some
type of change and then to maintainthe change and build upon that change.
It is a lifelong purpose. Thisisn't a fad diet, right. Change
(51:32):
is not a fad diet. Changeis a lifestyle, and it will not
happen overnight. There is so muchthat could potentially happen, but there is
so much that won't happen In ourlifetime. We will not see most of
(51:52):
the change that we are responsible forhelping usher in, but it has to
start somewhere. It is amazing whenI look back on things that I've done,
especially in the political space, advocacyspace. You know, you work
(52:15):
on a project developing let's say,a police a piece of land. Right,
we have a we have a pieceof land called the Boston State Hospital
and it used to be a mentalhealth institution and what have you that was
closed a long time ago. Itis a massive plot of land, massive
(52:36):
and it had stayed undeveloped for mostof my life. When I was a
kid, still in high school andI was an intern, I worked for
one of the top elected officials.And one of the first things that I
had to gather research on, goto meetings, go to community meetings on,
and write reports about help was developingportions of the Boston State Hospital grounds.
(53:07):
And that was the beginning, right, I'm fifteen, sixteen years old
doing this, Right, that wasthe beginning. And from that came a
senior building, where are our elderfolks were able to live, especially if
(53:30):
they could if they only needed likea visiting nurse, let's say, to
check on them, what have you. You know, From that came development
of housing for a whole cross sectionof people, a biologic lab, a
school, you know, not justhousing for rent, but housing for people
(53:51):
to own. And to this dayit's still being developed. Well, goodness,
gracious, I'll be forty one laterthis year. I'm talking about something
that I started doing when I wasfifteen, sixteen years old. That's a
whole lifetime ago, especially, youknow, thanks to COVID, that's a
(54:14):
whole lifetime ago. There's so manythings that can happen in that period of
time and that has had that havehappened in that period of time, right,
Think about that. Think about that, man. There's a possibility that
(54:34):
I'm not going to see the finishedproduct of the development of that land,
but it had to start at somepoint, and even the process to do
the development started many years before.I was a little intern and running around
pushing papers and going to meetings,trying to gain perspective on what the heck
is going on, and just reallyjust following direction. Right. It's funny
(55:01):
my grandmother at one point lived atthat senior home, which is a hell
of an irony when you think aboutthe fact that this is the first project
that I had ever worked on.You know, it took a lot of
time, man, but it's it'sstill going. Where I live Boston,
(55:27):
Massachusetts, we have declared racism apublic health emergency, not only in the
city but also in the state.The same place where there was busing and
an enormous amount of racism, youknow, where they were taking children from
their neighborhoods and literally on school buses, sending them to other neighborhoods to have
(55:49):
school, breaking up this whole neighborhoodschools inequity thing, because what they found
is neighborhoods that were majority white,those kids were getting a far better education
than neighborhoods that were not majority white. Right, somehow, some way they
were. They had the best books, and they had the highest performing teachers,
and therefore they had the best testscores and all this other nonsense.
(56:14):
How to break that up? Andthe many of the white citizens in Boston
didn't like that. They were throwingrocks and bricks at school buses. It's
all archives, you can. Youcan look it up. People talk about
all the time, or fights,people got beaten, bloody, all kinds
(56:37):
of stuff. Man. This isthis is when my mother and my aunts
and my uncles were of that age. They were school age, and this
was happening. Twenty twenty, wedeclared Boston and in racism in Boston a
(56:57):
public health emergency. I'm talking aboutbusting, which was happening in the seventies.
Man, you do the math.Takes time, takes effort. Got
to keep the pressure on, can'tstop. Gotta hold each other accountable on
this stuff. Just the way youhave to be And a lot of what
(57:22):
Riem is talking about, what arethe effects of these things, the some
of all parts here from an emotionaland a spiritual standpoint, it can really
wear you out. So you alsohave to take stock and take time and
make sure that you're tending to yourneeds as a human being. You can't
fight the good fight if you're sobeaten down that you've lost your strength.
(57:46):
Sometimes you gotta shut it down andrest, recharge the batteries reset. Right.
We all go through it. Weall go through it, but it's
important at if you need help,you seek it out and you know someone
(58:07):
like Rahem and the services that sheoffers. It's it's so necessary, man,
we all we can't all do iton our own. Sometimes you need
to see a professional. Sometimes youneed a support system to kind of help
you just stay clear. That couldbe a mentor, that could be a
whomever, doctor, some type ofprofessional whatever. But we can't do it
(58:31):
on our own. It's a lotand especially when you're talking about situations where
at the end of the day,we're talking about life and death. Here,
it's a lot. So you know, I encourage everybody out there just
make sure that you're staying focused,keeping the pressure on, including yourself,
(58:55):
but you're taking your time at thesame time to make sure that you're good.
You can't help me if you're nothelping yourself, that's for sure.
Anyways, Always, folks, bekind to yourselves and be kind to others.
This is E. Duke Bennett andyou've been listening to tell Us the
Truth. Tell Us the Truth isproduced in Boston in association with iHeartMedia and
(59:21):
WBZ News Radio.
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