June 17, 2025 • 12 mins
Peter Bukowski pissed off Houston Texans' fans on Tuesday morning with his comment on C.J. Stroud's second season, so AC decided to call him out. Listen to the FULL conversation here and how Peter defends his stance!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Earlier today, I was browsing the mean streets of x
formerly known as Twitter. I saw everybody was upset about something.
I don't even remember how I came across this, but
it was a post by Peter Bukowski. Oh are you
the one that posted this?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Cool? Oh that's right, you did.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Okay, See I forget I've slept since then, No, I
really have. And sometimes I forget how it all starts
because I get so caught up in going down the
path that it takes me so Peter Bukowski, who is
a co founder of the Leap. He hosts the Lockdown
Packers podcast, among other things, he wrote the following, I
(00:37):
don't know who needs to hear this, but from week
eight on last year, Bryce Young outproduced CJ. Stroud in
every efficiency metric we care about. And it wasn't particularly close.
The quote it was a bad situation. Excuse falls apart
pretty fast when you think about it that way. And
of course immediately Texans fans are like hopping on. They
(00:59):
want I wanna go after this guy and he, to
Peter's credit, I think he responded to every single person
who called him out on this, including me, and he
joins us on the phone right now, because I said
the following, I don't know who needs to hear this,
but Peter Bukowski is an attention starved idiot. Carry on
with your Tuesday and just be aware that lesser minds
(01:22):
like this are wasting your precious oxygen. And Peter comes
right back and he says, you have four hours a
day to talk and couldn't find ten minutes to actually
say this to me on air. Pretty lame behavior. So
I wanted to rectify that, Peter, and get you on
the air and have you explain yourself because I think
as I and I'll let you talk obviously and say
your piece. But as I was looking at the responses
(01:44):
to this, I think the overwhelming sentiment from Texans fans
was that A you were taking a small sample size
of the season, and B you were ignoring the fact
that he had offensive line issues to make your point.
At least that's the very cliffs notes version of what
I saw, just kind of perusing a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, So that's interesting because I think you're right, that
is that is the been the response from Texans fans.
The point that I was making was not about Bryce
Young being better than CJ. Shroud, which I do not
believe is true. In fact, I've watched closely as c J.
Stroud has become a much better quarterback than Bryce Young,
(02:26):
which is particularly of interest to me covering the Green
Bay Packers because that fact helps the Bears get Caleb Williams.
Because if the Panthers had taken CJ. Stroud, the Bears
inherit not the number one overall pick. They don't get
to take Caleb Williams, and Justin Fields might still be
their quarterbacks. So let's just start there for a second.
Because I got called a Bryce Young fanboy and all
(02:47):
that stuff. So it's not about that I actually think
Bryce Young. I'd never bought it and still don't buy it.
What I was really trying to get at, and this
offensive line question is exactly why I'm mention this. I
thought the Carolina Panthers had the worst offensive roster in
the league last year, and I did not think it
was particularly close. Adam Zelin as your number one receiver
(03:10):
is a flat out joke, and if you look up
and down that roster, there's just no talent there. And
so when I see the excuses being made for CJ.
Stroud's season, which was much worse than anyone seems willing
to admit. I just I find the excuses that are
made for him. Oh, the bad offensive coordinator. I think
Bobby Sloak was bad, and I thought he deserved to
(03:32):
be fired. When you have Nico Collins for most of
the season, when you have Tank Dell for most of
the season, when you have Stefan Dicks for half of
the season, it just the excuses fall away to me
when I look at the second half of the year
and the just dumpster fire that Bryce Young was in
and saw that if you look at things like EPA
per play and completion percentage and those kinds, it's success rate,
(03:55):
those kinds of metrics, Bryce Young was materially better than c. J. Shroud.
In fact, out of twenty two quelve quarterbacks, DJ Shroud
was the second least deficient quarterback in the league in
the second half of the season. I just don't think
circumstance is an excuse.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, and I see what you're saying as far as
you know, if you're looking at Bryce Young's season, But
I mean the if you want to call him excuses,
if you want to call whatever you want to call them.
I mean CJ was dealing with not only a tear,
I mean it's the worst offensive line in football, I
thought last year. And it was a worse offensive line
(04:31):
even with the same personnel last year than it was
in his rookie season. Because what I think what really
bugged me was that people would make the lazy take.
You know, it's hits his sophomore slump, you know, like
it's just like that, and there's nothing to it. They're
just that's that's a that's a moniker they're giving him
because he's not putting up the numbers he put up
(04:52):
his rookie year. You know, we've got tape on this
guy now, that kind of thing. And I'm like, well, no,
I mean even if you're like you argued he held
onto the ball too much and that's a reason he
took so many sacks.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, but that.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Line was worse as a unit in year two than
it was in year one. And whether that's because of
the coordinator or a number of different factors, I think
that has to factor in before you get to any
of the other stuff like personnel or injuries to those personnel.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, I think that's fair, right, Like the offensive line
got worse, and I think that led to CJ. Shroud
performing worse. I think it compounded for him. And look,
I'm not even like I'm not making the case that
I think he sucks or that he is never going
to be a good quarterback. I think he was prematurely
ordained as an elite guy and then took a significant
(05:41):
step back, and there are reasons for that. Like I
always this, I say this all the time in my
life personally and professionally, that you can have an explanation
without it being an excuse, right, Like you can like, hey,
I'm explaining this thing. I'm not excusing the behavior or
whatever it is. I think there are a lot of
explanations and even some excuses for the step back that CJ.
(06:02):
Stroud took last year, But then we have to be
honest about what that step back was. And what I
find interesting is the decision that the organization made to
fix it. Like do you think the offensive line is
better today than it was in Week nine of last year?
I don't know, so, like what are we doing is
very weird? Like I don't understand this. Everyone agrees the
offensive line stunk, and their answer was to trade their
(06:24):
best offensive lineman. Like, it's just a very weird situation
to me.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
So you had said a minute ago, you don't think CJ.
Stroud stinks? Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
But the information you're posting and now telling us suggests otherwise.
What do you think of him as an NFL quarterback?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I don't know. I think as a rookie, he had
a very good season for a rookie and was probably
somewhere between the twelfth and sixteenth best quarterback in the
league as a rookie, which is very good for a rookie,
right And I think he was graded on a curve,
especially because like there's this percenteption about how state quarterbacks
and because the Texans were this incredible story Damiko Ryans,
(07:04):
who I have the utmost respect for. I think he's
an incredible coach. Has that defense is very scary. But
then he took a step back and last year I
thought he was a below average quarterback last year. So
if we were like, let's rank the quarterbacks in a
hierarchy right now today, entering the season, you know, without
(07:26):
without putting putting it to paper right now, I think
I would put him in that like twelve, ten, through
sixteen area above average. But I need to personally, I
need to seem more to say this is an elite guy,
this is the next guy, Like I think there is
a material difference between the Allen's and the Jackson's and
(07:49):
the Mahomes and the Burroughs and even Justin Herbert, which
is going to make Houston fans man I know, and
CD Shroud, I don't think there's a chasm there. And
I think he I think he has the talent to
get there. I thought he was a very talented collegiate prospects.
So this isn't even me confirming priors. I just want
to see more than I've seen so far. I'm excited.
I love Jayden Higgins, I love Jalen Nole, I love
(08:10):
some of the receivers that I love. I thought the
Packer should have drafted Nico Collins and said so at
the time, So I'm excited to see what it looks
like this year. I just I think there was a
premature coorination of him as a superstar, and to me,
he's just not that yet.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
So the purpose of comparing him to Bryce Sun, who
I have to assume you don't believe is in the
top twelve to fourteen heading into twenty twenty five, what's
the purpose there?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
The purpose was the point that I made at the
top was I thought that that situation in Carolina was
complete dogwater. It was just a brutal situation for anyone
to produce in. And so to excuse a player that,
by contensus, everyone thought was a really good guy, a
really good quarterback, to excuse what seemed to me at
(09:00):
least as a clear regression because of the circumstances just
feels disingenuous. When there were other players in bad circumstances,
I would argue worse circumstances who produce significantly more. So
those those excuses just don't hold water to me. So
it's not a I think Bryce Young is better. It's hey, look,
Bryce Young was also in this bad situation and outproduced CJ. Stroud.
(09:23):
So are you really going to keep making those same
excuses for circumstance when this guy that everyone agrees is
the worst player produced at a higher rate and a
more efficient rate under worse circumstances, Like those two things
square And so you know, at the risk of being
like I'm just asking questions, guy, like I was just
throwing down out there to say, like this is this
(09:44):
really a compelling argument to you, because it's not to me.
So it's a comparison point to say, I don't find
misargument compelling when there's this other point of data we
can say, look at this, he was better under worse
circumstances in my opinion.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I mean Peter mccowski joining us here on or
Stock seven ninety any analysis, someone who's putting time and
effort into it. I can certainly understand, you know, CJ.
Stroud's first season, then the second season. So we'll just
get to the question what it's a guess.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I'm asking what your guess is. Is he headed back
up the ladder? Or have you decided that he's headed
back down the ladder?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I would think I would think up is more likely
the trajectory based on where he was last year. But
that's that's partially because I think he has further to
go from where he was, do you know what I mean?
So like, if I think he was the twentieth best
quarterback last year in a vacuum, then yeah, if I
expect him to be somewhere between ten and sixteen this year,
then that trajectory is back up. Would I be surprised
(10:46):
if he was the eighth best quarterback in the league
this year, No, I wouldn't. I think he has the
talent to do that. I just I don't don't think
he's proven that yet. So do I think the trajectory
is still upward for him? Yes, but there are issues
that he has to say that he has to get
squared away, and I don't think the team did him
any favors in doing that. I don't think getting him
more receivers as the answer. I think he needs better protection,
(11:08):
and I don't think an offensive coordinator change is enough.
So I am I am cautiously optimistic he can be
better this year, But I am I am certainly dubious
of the project here that the Texans are undertaking in saying, well,
we're gonna we're gonna make him be Joe Burrow, and
we're gonna get him his Chase and his Higgins, and
just like hope that he does what Joe Burrow does,
(11:29):
and that is make make the offensive line look not
nearly as bad as it is, which is just a
weird play considering the Bengals have spent five years trying
to fix the offensive line. They've just failed at it,
which is the problem. So yeah, I think he can
be better, but I'm not sure that this is the
ideal circumstance for him to be better. Which is tough, right, Like,
it's hard to it's hard to separate the quarterback from
(11:51):
his circumstances. It's why quarterback evaluation in college is so hard,
and why quarterback evaluation in the NFL is so hard.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Well, you and I are in lockstep on the offensive
line here in Houston, and I also am. I'm going
to be fascinated to see your assessment of Jaden Daniels
after year two under the same protocol or the same
circumstances for a guy like C. J. Strout. Well, I would.
I will retract my statement. You are not an idiot
and you are not wasting oxygen. Peter, We appreciate the.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Time, well, at least not in the last fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Exactly, all right, Peter Bukowski here on Sports Talk seven ninety.
He is the co founder of the Leap and the
host of the Lockdown Packers podcast, among other things, and
we appreciate his time more on that and plenty other things.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
When we come back. The AG on Sports Talk seven
ninety
Earlier today, I was browsing the mean streets of x
formerly known as Twitter. I saw everybody was upset about something.
I don't even remember how I came across this, but
it was a post by Peter Bukowski. Oh are you
the one that posted this?
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Cool? Oh that's right, you did.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Okay, See I forget I've slept since then, No, I
really have. And sometimes I forget how it all starts
because I get so caught up in going down the
path that it takes me so Peter Bukowski, who is
a co founder of the Leap. He hosts the Lockdown
Packers podcast, among other things, he wrote the following, I
(00:37):
don't know who needs to hear this, but from week
eight on last year, Bryce Young outproduced CJ. Stroud in
every efficiency metric we care about. And it wasn't particularly close.
The quote it was a bad situation. Excuse falls apart
pretty fast when you think about it that way. And
of course immediately Texans fans are like hopping on. They
(00:59):
want I wanna go after this guy and he, to
Peter's credit, I think he responded to every single person
who called him out on this, including me, and he
joins us on the phone right now, because I said
the following, I don't know who needs to hear this,
but Peter Bukowski is an attention starved idiot. Carry on
with your Tuesday and just be aware that lesser minds
(01:22):
like this are wasting your precious oxygen. And Peter comes
right back and he says, you have four hours a
day to talk and couldn't find ten minutes to actually
say this to me on air. Pretty lame behavior. So
I wanted to rectify that, Peter, and get you on
the air and have you explain yourself because I think
as I and I'll let you talk obviously and say
your piece. But as I was looking at the responses
(01:44):
to this, I think the overwhelming sentiment from Texans fans
was that A you were taking a small sample size
of the season, and B you were ignoring the fact
that he had offensive line issues to make your point.
At least that's the very cliffs notes version of what
I saw, just kind of perusing a little bit.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, So that's interesting because I think you're right, that
is that is the been the response from Texans fans.
The point that I was making was not about Bryce
Young being better than CJ. Shroud, which I do not
believe is true. In fact, I've watched closely as c J.
Stroud has become a much better quarterback than Bryce Young,
(02:26):
which is particularly of interest to me covering the Green
Bay Packers because that fact helps the Bears get Caleb Williams.
Because if the Panthers had taken CJ. Stroud, the Bears
inherit not the number one overall pick. They don't get
to take Caleb Williams, and Justin Fields might still be
their quarterbacks. So let's just start there for a second.
Because I got called a Bryce Young fanboy and all
(02:47):
that stuff. So it's not about that I actually think
Bryce Young. I'd never bought it and still don't buy it.
What I was really trying to get at, and this
offensive line question is exactly why I'm mention this. I
thought the Carolina Panthers had the worst offensive roster in
the league last year, and I did not think it
was particularly close. Adam Zelin as your number one receiver
(03:10):
is a flat out joke, and if you look up
and down that roster, there's just no talent there. And
so when I see the excuses being made for CJ.
Stroud's season, which was much worse than anyone seems willing
to admit. I just I find the excuses that are
made for him. Oh, the bad offensive coordinator. I think
Bobby Sloak was bad, and I thought he deserved to
(03:32):
be fired. When you have Nico Collins for most of
the season, when you have Tank Dell for most of
the season, when you have Stefan Dicks for half of
the season, it just the excuses fall away to me
when I look at the second half of the year
and the just dumpster fire that Bryce Young was in
and saw that if you look at things like EPA
per play and completion percentage and those kinds, it's success rate,
(03:55):
those kinds of metrics, Bryce Young was materially better than c. J. Shroud.
In fact, out of twenty two quelve quarterbacks, DJ Shroud
was the second least deficient quarterback in the league in
the second half of the season. I just don't think
circumstance is an excuse.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Yeah, and I see what you're saying as far as
you know, if you're looking at Bryce Young's season, But
I mean the if you want to call him excuses,
if you want to call whatever you want to call them.
I mean CJ was dealing with not only a tear,
I mean it's the worst offensive line in football, I
thought last year. And it was a worse offensive line
(04:31):
even with the same personnel last year than it was
in his rookie season. Because what I think what really
bugged me was that people would make the lazy take.
You know, it's hits his sophomore slump, you know, like
it's just like that, and there's nothing to it. They're
just that's that's a that's a moniker they're giving him
because he's not putting up the numbers he put up
(04:52):
his rookie year. You know, we've got tape on this
guy now, that kind of thing. And I'm like, well, no,
I mean even if you're like you argued he held
onto the ball too much and that's a reason he
took so many sacks.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, but that.
Speaker 1 (05:02):
Line was worse as a unit in year two than
it was in year one. And whether that's because of
the coordinator or a number of different factors, I think
that has to factor in before you get to any
of the other stuff like personnel or injuries to those personnel.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Yeah, I think that's fair, right, Like the offensive line
got worse, and I think that led to CJ. Shroud
performing worse. I think it compounded for him. And look,
I'm not even like I'm not making the case that
I think he sucks or that he is never going
to be a good quarterback. I think he was prematurely
ordained as an elite guy and then took a significant
(05:41):
step back, and there are reasons for that. Like I
always this, I say this all the time in my
life personally and professionally, that you can have an explanation
without it being an excuse, right, Like you can like, hey,
I'm explaining this thing. I'm not excusing the behavior or
whatever it is. I think there are a lot of
explanations and even some excuses for the step back that CJ.
(06:02):
Stroud took last year, But then we have to be
honest about what that step back was. And what I
find interesting is the decision that the organization made to
fix it. Like do you think the offensive line is
better today than it was in Week nine of last year?
I don't know, so, like what are we doing is
very weird? Like I don't understand this. Everyone agrees the
offensive line stunk, and their answer was to trade their
(06:24):
best offensive lineman. Like, it's just a very weird situation
to me.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
So you had said a minute ago, you don't think CJ.
Stroud stinks? Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (06:33):
Correct?
Speaker 3 (06:35):
But the information you're posting and now telling us suggests otherwise.
What do you think of him as an NFL quarterback?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I don't know. I think as a rookie, he had
a very good season for a rookie and was probably
somewhere between the twelfth and sixteenth best quarterback in the
league as a rookie, which is very good for a rookie,
right And I think he was graded on a curve,
especially because like there's this percenteption about how state quarterbacks
and because the Texans were this incredible story Damiko Ryans,
(07:04):
who I have the utmost respect for. I think he's
an incredible coach. Has that defense is very scary. But
then he took a step back and last year I
thought he was a below average quarterback last year. So
if we were like, let's rank the quarterbacks in a
hierarchy right now today, entering the season, you know, without
(07:26):
without putting putting it to paper right now, I think
I would put him in that like twelve, ten, through
sixteen area above average. But I need to personally, I
need to seem more to say this is an elite guy,
this is the next guy, Like I think there is
a material difference between the Allen's and the Jackson's and
(07:49):
the Mahomes and the Burroughs and even Justin Herbert, which
is going to make Houston fans man I know, and
CD Shroud, I don't think there's a chasm there. And
I think he I think he has the talent to
get there. I thought he was a very talented collegiate prospects.
So this isn't even me confirming priors. I just want
to see more than I've seen so far. I'm excited.
I love Jayden Higgins, I love Jalen Nole, I love
(08:10):
some of the receivers that I love. I thought the
Packer should have drafted Nico Collins and said so at
the time, So I'm excited to see what it looks
like this year. I just I think there was a
premature coorination of him as a superstar, and to me,
he's just not that yet.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
So the purpose of comparing him to Bryce Sun, who
I have to assume you don't believe is in the
top twelve to fourteen heading into twenty twenty five, what's
the purpose there?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
The purpose was the point that I made at the
top was I thought that that situation in Carolina was
complete dogwater. It was just a brutal situation for anyone
to produce in. And so to excuse a player that,
by contensus, everyone thought was a really good guy, a
really good quarterback, to excuse what seemed to me at
(09:00):
least as a clear regression because of the circumstances just
feels disingenuous. When there were other players in bad circumstances,
I would argue worse circumstances who produce significantly more. So
those those excuses just don't hold water to me. So
it's not a I think Bryce Young is better. It's hey, look,
Bryce Young was also in this bad situation and outproduced CJ. Stroud.
(09:23):
So are you really going to keep making those same
excuses for circumstance when this guy that everyone agrees is
the worst player produced at a higher rate and a
more efficient rate under worse circumstances, Like those two things
square And so you know, at the risk of being
like I'm just asking questions, guy, like I was just
throwing down out there to say, like this is this
(09:44):
really a compelling argument to you, because it's not to me.
So it's a comparison point to say, I don't find
misargument compelling when there's this other point of data we
can say, look at this, he was better under worse
circumstances in my opinion.
Speaker 3 (09:57):
Yeah, I mean Peter mccowski joining us here on or
Stock seven ninety any analysis, someone who's putting time and
effort into it. I can certainly understand, you know, CJ.
Stroud's first season, then the second season. So we'll just
get to the question what it's a guess.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I get it.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
I'm asking what your guess is. Is he headed back
up the ladder? Or have you decided that he's headed
back down the ladder?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
I would think I would think up is more likely
the trajectory based on where he was last year. But
that's that's partially because I think he has further to
go from where he was, do you know what I mean?
So like, if I think he was the twentieth best
quarterback last year in a vacuum, then yeah, if I
expect him to be somewhere between ten and sixteen this year,
then that trajectory is back up. Would I be surprised
(10:46):
if he was the eighth best quarterback in the league
this year, No, I wouldn't. I think he has the
talent to do that. I just I don't don't think
he's proven that yet. So do I think the trajectory
is still upward for him? Yes, but there are issues
that he has to say that he has to get
squared away, and I don't think the team did him
any favors in doing that. I don't think getting him
more receivers as the answer. I think he needs better protection,
(11:08):
and I don't think an offensive coordinator change is enough.
So I am I am cautiously optimistic he can be
better this year, But I am I am certainly dubious
of the project here that the Texans are undertaking in saying, well,
we're gonna we're gonna make him be Joe Burrow, and
we're gonna get him his Chase and his Higgins, and
just like hope that he does what Joe Burrow does,
(11:29):
and that is make make the offensive line look not
nearly as bad as it is, which is just a
weird play considering the Bengals have spent five years trying
to fix the offensive line. They've just failed at it,
which is the problem. So yeah, I think he can
be better, but I'm not sure that this is the
ideal circumstance for him to be better. Which is tough, right, Like,
it's hard to it's hard to separate the quarterback from
(11:51):
his circumstances. It's why quarterback evaluation in college is so hard,
and why quarterback evaluation in the NFL is so hard.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Well, you and I are in lockstep on the offensive
line here in Houston, and I also am. I'm going
to be fascinated to see your assessment of Jaden Daniels
after year two under the same protocol or the same
circumstances for a guy like C. J. Strout. Well, I would.
I will retract my statement. You are not an idiot
and you are not wasting oxygen. Peter, We appreciate the.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Time, well, at least not in the last fifteen minutes.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Exactly, all right, Peter Bukowski here on Sports Talk seven ninety.
He is the co founder of the Leap and the
host of the Lockdown Packers podcast, among other things, and
we appreciate his time more on that and plenty other things.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
When we come back. The AG on Sports Talk seven
ninety
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