Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
But the one that has muscle or just clout or
whatever you want to call it is the Baseball Union,
and they've never lost a labor fight. Not since they
formed that union back in the early seventies have they
ever lost. And while every other league known to mankind
has the salary cap, Baseball has a similar version of
(00:20):
it called revenue share or luxury tax, which the Dodgers,
the Yankees, the Mets, a handful of other teams pay
into a pool that the other teams in the league
can use to get their own players or can put
it in their pocket, like what happens usually with the
Pittsburgh owner.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well, and even that it wasn't until like a decade
ago that that was more evenly split to help the
lower earning teams.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, the majority of the owners in Major League Baseball
want a salary cap, and the only three or four
that don't are the New York teams, the Dodgers, not
the Angels, because the Angels would welcome one. Artie Marino
doesn't like to spend a penny morning has to San Francisco,
usually spends a little bit frivolously in SODA's Philadelphia. John Henry,
(01:13):
the Boston owner is one of the richest people in
the world. But the reason the celt the Red Sox
have been averaged recently is because he doesn't spend like
he did when they were winning. And maybe Atlanta, we'll
throw a few dollars here and there, but for the
most part, every other owner in the league wants a
salary cap. And I can assure you that Major League
(01:33):
Baseball's rank and file players and its stars do not
want one. So if you go back to nineteen ninety
four and let's revise history a little bit, or at
least relive it, the players went on strike in August
of nineteen ninety four because they didn't feel like Major
League Baseball was being serious about negotiating a new deal
(01:54):
and that Major League Baseball was going to use the
leverage of the World Series to wait until after the
World Series to get the deal that there was more
favorable to them and the owners basically are the players
kind of got kind of got wind of this. Hey,
they're not really going to try to laughter the World
Series and then they're going to lock us out in
spring training, so we're not going to have spring training
(02:16):
until March or April anyway, So why are we need
to get a deal done sooner than that so we
can go to spring training and have a nineteen ninety
five season, and so let's go on strike so that
we can force the hand of the owners. And unfortunately
it was a dark year for baseball and for the
Montreal Expos, who had the best team, and they would
(02:38):
never sniffed the playoffs after that before they eventually went
to Washington. And so my concern is is that we're
in a similar situation going into the twenty twenty six
season in about five months. The baseball season scheduled to
open in late in late March, and the players and
(03:01):
owners are trying to negotiate a new deal. And I
guarantee you one of the proposals that the owners are
going to throw out there is some kind of a
salary cap. Now, it may be the heaviest salary cap
we've ever seen. And I think what the NBA is
like at two hundred and twenty five million before you
go in the second wave of the ape run or whatever.
(03:21):
But let's look at the reason, one of the reasons
why no matter how much revenue money you give to
the Detroit Tigers, it is going to be a lost
leader if you pay Scooble what the rest of the
league or the big teams could potentially pay him. And
the Yankees and the Dodgers and the Mets and the
Phillies in particular have enough extra cash coming in that
(03:46):
they can make a mistake with a signee and then
get out of it as soon as they can a
few years later and it not really hurt their bottom line.
And the Tigers know that the asking price for schoobl
and the Pirates know for Skeins, and it's already going
to be out of their league, so they're starting to
take offers so they can get the biggest deal they
can because they're going to get nothing and like it
(04:07):
once those guys become free agents. And so my concern is,
being the baseball fan that I am, and I know
Sam is as well, that we're going to get to
August again and we're going to be on the verge
of another great season with teams trying to vie for
the playoffs and players who are up in age that
maybe having one last chance at glory, and the Rug's
(04:29):
going to get pulled out from under them with the
players either being locked out or more likely the players striking,
and if they do wait till after the World Series,
there's definitely going to be a lockout. The players aren't
going to have a chance to strike. And I'm just
wondering how how much the owners are willing to play ball.
Are they willing to miss the entire twenty twenty seven season,
(04:51):
because I think that's what it's going to take to
not have to get them as themselves a salary cap.
And the reason I say that is because the players
are going to vote with what their union leadership tells
them to go with. But like every other sport, you
have the superstars that are making a lot, and you
(05:12):
have the rest of the team that loves the fact
that they're getting play. They getting paid five million dollars
to play baseball, and five million is a lot to
you and me, But in baseball and sports terminology, it's
you're you're basically not paying them anything. The Garrett Calls
of the World that make forty five million, no salary cap,
the show Aotwani's that makes seven hundred million and one
so too, we don't want a salary cap. But the uh,
(05:33):
the minor league pitcher that just made it to the
show for the first time. Who's making two million dollars
and would still make two million dollars if he wasn't
in the if he if there wasn't a cap, Like,
I'm not going to make any difference. I just want
to be here for as long as I can and
play for as long as I can. I vote, I
vote yes. And I'm wondering if they ever get an
agreement in place that includes a salary cap, if the
(05:55):
players will vote for it. And I think the players
understand that the majority of players probably would vote for one,
while the star players in baseball probably would not. So
let's kind of look, I'm looking forward to the baseball
season again. With will be one hundred and twenty days
away or so from the first game, and my concern
is is that with the rug may be pulled out
(06:16):
from under us by the time we get to August
or September, because the players will go on strike again
if they don't think the owners are trying to if
they do, think the owners are trying to wait until
after the World Series to get serious with a deal.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, and my you know, my pessimism by nature tells
me this is probably going to be ugly. I do
think there. If you want any signs of hope, I
do think the MLB, the owners negotiating the new TV
deals with NBC, getting back on basic cable, getting the
(06:51):
game potentially more eyes than it had been getting on ESPN.
Who doesn't even do you know baseball or any dedicated
baseball coverage anymore. I do think that, you know, signing
that big deal with NBC kind of tells me they're
not looking to miss out on actual games now. If
(07:16):
they want a salary cap, I think you're going to
see games being missed because if both sides are standing
firm in their position, there's not a whole lot of
negotiation to take place between yes, we want a salary
cap and no, we're adamantly opposed to it. There's no negotiation.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Then, if I'm the owners, here's my off the cuff negotiation. Okay,
no salary cap. Your payroll cannot exceed two hundred and
twenty five million, and you get tax two dollars for
every dollar over that, and that money goes into a pool,
and that pool must go to your players. The owners
cannot put it in their pocket. They have to use
it on players. So whatever's in the pool gets divided
(07:58):
amongst the non tax paying teams and they get an
equal share, and they have to give it to an
existing player or a free agent or a new player.
They cannot put it in their pocket. That would be
number one and number two. You cannot have deferred contracts,
including the ones that you currently have. So if shoe
Aotani is due all this money, you don't have to
pay him until twenty forty five. If he doesn't want
(08:20):
the tax, ye it right now, but you have to
count it on your cap. It's kind of like a
signing bonus in the NFL. If you get a signing
bonus today and they hand you twenty million and the
contract and then the rest is not guaranteed, but you're
getting thirty million, and it's a five year deal. Four
million of that twenty million dollars signing bonus counts year
to year to year on the salary cap. So no
more deferred payments and no more stashing players and stalking
(08:42):
your roster. Because Otani probably makes more endorsements, especially in
Asia than he does the United States, and especially that
he does getting paid from the Dodgers right now and
then when nobody wants him to be a pitch man.
He's going to get all that money from the Dodgers,
So okay, you can. You can give him the seven
hundred and twenty million dollars in thirty thirty seven for
(09:03):
all I care and is great great great grandchildren. But
it's going to kut against the cap while he's playing.
And I think if they did those two things, that
would equal out the balance of power. And if the rule,
if the if the ownership was forced to spend their
tax money on players, and that'd be part of the deal,
and it'd be highly audited and very intensely audited. I
(09:26):
think you could avoid a labor stop a workstop each
because of a labor agreement. And I think you could
avoid having a salary cap.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, And I guess this is where you know, this
is where my I have trouble wrapping my head around
what the motivations truly are, because you talk about, you know,
a competitive balance or a competitive you know, certain teams
are just never going to have the chance to compete.
(09:53):
The Tampa Bay Rays were in a World Series less
than five.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Years Mamie Marlins were in there about twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
The Cleveland's been to one in the last decade. UH,
the Astros their whole dynasty. They were letting guys go
left and right, Garrett Coles, Springer core.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Because they invested in their farm system and their farm
system got great, and then whenever they got out priced,
they went back to the farm system for the next guy.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And when's the last time the Yankees won the World Series?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Two thousand and nine?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
See so, I mean, I understand the idea that the Cubs.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Have won and the and the Royals have won since
the Yankees won one.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Kansas City perfect example. What was that team Bayrol?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
It was not much, but then Hosberg got the big
deal from San Diego and somebody else got a big
deal from somebody else and they And that's fine if
that's the way you want to run your team. But
if you're the owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates and you're
worrying about pay paying Paul Skeins, well you dot can
pay him because that money that we're giving you from
the Yankees and the Dodgers and the Mets you have
(10:57):
to pay on you have to give to somebody. Now,
he not want to stay there, But if you're offering
more than they are, why would he not consider staying
where you are because at least if you're paying the
players their market value, your team is going to be competitive,
all right, One more segment to go in this hour,
six o'clock hour coming up. More Spurs top five point
forty seven on the ticket
But the one that has muscle or just clout or
whatever you want to call it is the Baseball Union,
and they've never lost a labor fight. Not since they
formed that union back in the early seventies have they
ever lost. And while every other league known to mankind
has the salary cap, Baseball has a similar version of
(00:20):
it called revenue share or luxury tax, which the Dodgers,
the Yankees, the Mets, a handful of other teams pay
into a pool that the other teams in the league
can use to get their own players or can put
it in their pocket, like what happens usually with the
Pittsburgh owner.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well, and even that it wasn't until like a decade
ago that that was more evenly split to help the
lower earning teams.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
Well, the majority of the owners in Major League Baseball
want a salary cap, and the only three or four
that don't are the New York teams, the Dodgers, not
the Angels, because the Angels would welcome one. Artie Marino
doesn't like to spend a penny morning has to San Francisco,
usually spends a little bit frivolously in SODA's Philadelphia. John Henry,
(01:13):
the Boston owner is one of the richest people in
the world. But the reason the celt the Red Sox
have been averaged recently is because he doesn't spend like
he did when they were winning. And maybe Atlanta, we'll
throw a few dollars here and there, but for the
most part, every other owner in the league wants a
salary cap. And I can assure you that Major League
(01:33):
Baseball's rank and file players and its stars do not
want one. So if you go back to nineteen ninety
four and let's revise history a little bit, or at
least relive it, the players went on strike in August
of nineteen ninety four because they didn't feel like Major
League Baseball was being serious about negotiating a new deal
(01:54):
and that Major League Baseball was going to use the
leverage of the World Series to wait until after the
World Series to get the deal that there was more
favorable to them and the owners basically are the players
kind of got kind of got wind of this. Hey,
they're not really going to try to laughter the World
Series and then they're going to lock us out in
spring training, so we're not going to have spring training
(02:16):
until March or April anyway, So why are we need
to get a deal done sooner than that so we
can go to spring training and have a nineteen ninety
five season, and so let's go on strike so that
we can force the hand of the owners. And unfortunately
it was a dark year for baseball and for the
Montreal Expos, who had the best team, and they would
(02:38):
never sniffed the playoffs after that before they eventually went
to Washington. And so my concern is is that we're
in a similar situation going into the twenty twenty six
season in about five months. The baseball season scheduled to
open in late in late March, and the players and
(03:01):
owners are trying to negotiate a new deal. And I
guarantee you one of the proposals that the owners are
going to throw out there is some kind of a
salary cap. Now, it may be the heaviest salary cap
we've ever seen. And I think what the NBA is
like at two hundred and twenty five million before you
go in the second wave of the ape run or whatever.
(03:21):
But let's look at the reason, one of the reasons
why no matter how much revenue money you give to
the Detroit Tigers, it is going to be a lost
leader if you pay Scooble what the rest of the
league or the big teams could potentially pay him. And
the Yankees and the Dodgers and the Mets and the
Phillies in particular have enough extra cash coming in that
(03:46):
they can make a mistake with a signee and then
get out of it as soon as they can a
few years later and it not really hurt their bottom line.
And the Tigers know that the asking price for schoobl
and the Pirates know for Skeins, and it's already going
to be out of their league, so they're starting to
take offers so they can get the biggest deal they
can because they're going to get nothing and like it
(04:07):
once those guys become free agents. And so my concern is,
being the baseball fan that I am, and I know
Sam is as well, that we're going to get to
August again and we're going to be on the verge
of another great season with teams trying to vie for
the playoffs and players who are up in age that
maybe having one last chance at glory, and the Rug's
(04:29):
going to get pulled out from under them with the
players either being locked out or more likely the players striking,
and if they do wait till after the World Series,
there's definitely going to be a lockout. The players aren't
going to have a chance to strike. And I'm just
wondering how how much the owners are willing to play ball.
Are they willing to miss the entire twenty twenty seven season,
(04:51):
because I think that's what it's going to take to
not have to get them as themselves a salary cap.
And the reason I say that is because the players
are going to vote with what their union leadership tells
them to go with. But like every other sport, you
have the superstars that are making a lot, and you
(05:12):
have the rest of the team that loves the fact
that they're getting play. They getting paid five million dollars
to play baseball, and five million is a lot to
you and me, But in baseball and sports terminology, it's
you're you're basically not paying them anything. The Garrett Calls
of the World that make forty five million, no salary cap,
the show Aotwani's that makes seven hundred million and one
so too, we don't want a salary cap. But the uh,
(05:33):
the minor league pitcher that just made it to the
show for the first time. Who's making two million dollars
and would still make two million dollars if he wasn't
in the if he if there wasn't a cap, Like,
I'm not going to make any difference. I just want
to be here for as long as I can and
play for as long as I can. I vote, I
vote yes. And I'm wondering if they ever get an
agreement in place that includes a salary cap, if the
(05:55):
players will vote for it. And I think the players
understand that the majority of players probably would vote for one,
while the star players in baseball probably would not. So
let's kind of look, I'm looking forward to the baseball
season again. With will be one hundred and twenty days
away or so from the first game, and my concern
is is that with the rug may be pulled out
(06:16):
from under us by the time we get to August
or September, because the players will go on strike again
if they don't think the owners are trying to if
they do, think the owners are trying to wait until
after the World Series to get serious with a deal.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Yeah, and my you know, my pessimism by nature tells
me this is probably going to be ugly. I do
think there. If you want any signs of hope, I
do think the MLB, the owners negotiating the new TV
deals with NBC, getting back on basic cable, getting the
(06:51):
game potentially more eyes than it had been getting on ESPN.
Who doesn't even do you know baseball or any dedicated
baseball coverage anymore. I do think that, you know, signing
that big deal with NBC kind of tells me they're
not looking to miss out on actual games now. If
(07:16):
they want a salary cap, I think you're going to
see games being missed because if both sides are standing
firm in their position, there's not a whole lot of
negotiation to take place between yes, we want a salary
cap and no, we're adamantly opposed to it. There's no negotiation.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
Then, if I'm the owners, here's my off the cuff negotiation. Okay,
no salary cap. Your payroll cannot exceed two hundred and
twenty five million, and you get tax two dollars for
every dollar over that, and that money goes into a pool,
and that pool must go to your players. The owners
cannot put it in their pocket. They have to use
it on players. So whatever's in the pool gets divided
(07:58):
amongst the non tax paying teams and they get an
equal share, and they have to give it to an
existing player or a free agent or a new player.
They cannot put it in their pocket. That would be
number one and number two. You cannot have deferred contracts,
including the ones that you currently have. So if shoe
Aotani is due all this money, you don't have to
pay him until twenty forty five. If he doesn't want
(08:20):
the tax, ye it right now, but you have to
count it on your cap. It's kind of like a
signing bonus in the NFL. If you get a signing
bonus today and they hand you twenty million and the
contract and then the rest is not guaranteed, but you're
getting thirty million, and it's a five year deal. Four
million of that twenty million dollars signing bonus counts year
to year to year on the salary cap. So no
more deferred payments and no more stashing players and stalking
(08:42):
your roster. Because Otani probably makes more endorsements, especially in
Asia than he does the United States, and especially that
he does getting paid from the Dodgers right now and
then when nobody wants him to be a pitch man.
He's going to get all that money from the Dodgers,
So okay, you can. You can give him the seven
hundred and twenty million dollars in thirty thirty seven for
(09:03):
all I care and is great great great grandchildren. But
it's going to kut against the cap while he's playing.
And I think if they did those two things, that
would equal out the balance of power. And if the rule,
if the if the ownership was forced to spend their
tax money on players, and that'd be part of the deal,
and it'd be highly audited and very intensely audited. I
(09:26):
think you could avoid a labor stop a workstop each
because of a labor agreement. And I think you could
avoid having a salary cap.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
Yeah, And I guess this is where you know, this
is where my I have trouble wrapping my head around
what the motivations truly are, because you talk about, you know,
a competitive balance or a competitive you know, certain teams
are just never going to have the chance to compete.
(09:53):
The Tampa Bay Rays were in a World Series less
than five.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
Years Mamie Marlins were in there about twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
The Cleveland's been to one in the last decade. UH,
the Astros their whole dynasty. They were letting guys go
left and right, Garrett Coles, Springer core.
Speaker 1 (10:10):
Because they invested in their farm system and their farm
system got great, and then whenever they got out priced,
they went back to the farm system for the next guy.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
And when's the last time the Yankees won the World Series?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Two thousand and nine?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
See so, I mean, I understand the idea that the Cubs.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Have won and the and the Royals have won since
the Yankees won one.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Kansas City perfect example. What was that team Bayrol?
Speaker 1 (10:35):
It was not much, but then Hosberg got the big
deal from San Diego and somebody else got a big
deal from somebody else and they And that's fine if
that's the way you want to run your team. But
if you're the owner of the Pittsburgh Pirates and you're
worrying about pay paying Paul Skeins, well you dot can
pay him because that money that we're giving you from
the Yankees and the Dodgers and the Mets you have
(10:57):
to pay on you have to give to somebody. Now,
he not want to stay there, But if you're offering
more than they are, why would he not consider staying
where you are because at least if you're paying the
players their market value, your team is going to be competitive,
all right, One more segment to go in this hour,
six o'clock hour coming up. More Spurs top five point
forty seven on the ticket
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