October 1, 2025 • 14 mins
Cathy Engelbert is in hot water with the growth of the league.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Let's get into some more baseball discussion a little bit.
We'll talk analytics. Got the utsa typical game coming up.
Ben Rice lined out to right field to end the third,
so it's two to two going to the fourth. In
New York. All right about halfway through the WNBA season,
it did not look like the Las Vegas Aces were
(00:26):
your typical Las Vegas aces. They were playing poorly. Almost
every press conference you saw Becky Hammon attend after a
game was calling out the team for being sloppy, being lazy,
not playing hard, not playing defense, basically not caring. And
then with about sixteen games to go on this season,
they flipped the switch and I think they won fifteen
(00:46):
of their last sixteen games. And now they won a
game five overtime against Indiana yesterday and they're going to
the w NBA Finals. I think this is the third
time in four years they won back to back before
the Liberty. Actually, I think if they make the if
they make the finals, making the finals, this will be
(01:07):
the fourth straight year they've been there, or three out
of four. Anyway, Another great performance by having him, having
her get to get this team back to the back
to the finals again.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Amazing or as I like to call her, hams, love
me some Hams. You would be correct, though, Andy, Uh,
this will be the third out of four years that
the w that the Las Vegas Aces will be in
the w NBA Finals. So congratulations to them, and you know,
(01:42):
congratulations as well on a Obviously it wasn't what they
wanted with all of the injuries, Thank you referees in
county as well, the Indiana fever. You know, with Sophie
Cunningham being out, all of the other people being out,
with with Caitlin Clark being out, they could have done
(02:03):
the you know, all right, we're done, We're just gonna
quit the rest of the season. No, they they still
played hard and were able to get to where they
were and forced a game five and went into overtime.
A hell of a season by those young ladies, and
the sky's the limit for them.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
But that means yeah, when they get when they get
Cunningham and Clark back next year, look out, they're going
to be a really good team. A lot of those
players will be back as well. That's a team to
that you're gonna have to deal with. And I think
when those two players went out, they people thought they
had no chance of making the playoffs, and they got
to think the seventh seed and they got all the
way to the semifinals. So that was a was a
really good year. All right, that's the good news about
(02:46):
the WNBA. But nafisia call year this week went on
a four minute rant on her exit interview. After Minnesota
lost in the controversial game that Cheryl Reeve got tossed
from and then they lost game four, Collier says she
has some torn ligaments in her ankle from the injury
that occurred on what was deemed to be a no call,
(03:08):
and so she went out and said, I had this
conversation with WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert back in February. Here's
some of the questions. I ask, what are you going
to do about the physicality and about getting the referees
to be better referees. Her response was, only losers complain
about the officials, all right, that's one. Number Two, What
(03:32):
are you going to do with the players and helping
us get more money and how are we going to
be able to benefit more than nine percent of gross
revenues in the league. Her answer, according to the Visha
Collier was you should be on your knees thanking me
for the TV deal I got you. Then she asked,
what about recognizing the fact that it's the players that
(03:57):
are making your league popular, herself, Asia Wilson, and especially
Caitlin Clark, and the fact that Caitlyn Clark is now
worth sixteen million dollars a year off the court should
be something that the league should be proud of. Her answer,
you should be grateful that WNBA gives you a platform
(04:17):
to be able to make that kind of money off
the court. And if you want to google it, there's
four minutes of nothing but negative things that Kathy Engelbert
apparently said to her back in February. Kathy Engelbert has
come back out and said, I'm sorry for the way
that Nafisha feels, will work to try to find out
our differences and the standard regular answer that we've heard
(04:40):
for twenty five years. I don't know Kathy Engelbert. Maybe
she's a really good person. I do know that in
the years that I covered the league and got to
broadcast the games, I got to meet the commissioners who
we did some short interviews with them. I could take
the Donna or Under interview from two thousand and five, six, seven,
and eight. The questions were similar and the answers were
(05:02):
the same, this is what our plans are. They never
got around to finishing their plans. I don't if you
look at sports leagues that have commissioners, you look at
conferences in college football that have commissioners, they know the
game of sports. You may be a great CEO of
a company, an accounting firm, a lawyer firm, and there
(05:24):
are plenty of great people that have that have done
great things in their careers as CEOs of something that
are not sports, but it's rare with somebody that is
a CEO of something that's not sports six seeds as
the CEO of a sports franchise or of a sports league,
and it's far different. You have to deal with immense
(05:48):
egos and not just you know five or six that
you're dealing with with your partners in a firm, but
with twelve thirteen players on what will eventually be eighteen teams.
You have to deal with the revenue that they think
they deserve and that you can actually give them based
on the finances of the league. There are so many
(06:09):
things that I think that you need somebody who's been
a commissioner of the sports league to be able to
speak the same language that the players are speaking. I
don't know if Kathy Engelbert ever even played sports. I
think Donna Orunder did, and I think she was a
college player back in her days. And Donna was the
first or second. They've had three or four commissioners since then.
(06:29):
I'm just using her as an example because she was
always available to us, one of the friendliest people you'll
ever meet. And I think somebody that was trying really
hard to make the league great when they didn't have
a Caitlin Clark or an Asia Wilson, but they did
have Becky, and they did have Sue Byrd, and they
did have Diana Tarassi, and they really didn't market those
players to the level that you're seeing now with the
(06:50):
players that are successful in making the league. I would
move the season from January to July. I would try
to get the revenue up to twenty five thirty. I
would extend the season to sixty games. I would tell players,
if you want to play overseas, you can't play in
the WNBA. Sorry, we're gonna We're gonna have a winner
to spring. The early summer season. I would try to
(07:13):
make rookie contracts better, and I'd also tell them Caitlyn Clark,
Nofiicia Collier, and Asia Wilson are our money making machines.
It's okay to compete hard against them. It's okay to
play play as your best against them and want to
beat them. It's not okay to play so physical that
they're injured and can't play. And Sophie Cunningham should be
(07:36):
able to play on her own merit not as the
Rick Mahorn to Caitlin Clark to protect her. They are
too valuable to the league for them to get physically
beaten up and for the officials to sit there and
say no call. The officiating in all leagues is really,
really hard. If you've never officiated a game, it's tough.
And I'm not calling out any official whatsoever, but the
(07:58):
officials that have been in the WNBA have been there
forever they and seemingly they've never gotten better from one
generation to the next. When Nafisia Collier talked about the
physicality and Becky Emmon was asked about it, it was Cheryl,
We've talked about it, and Becky Hama was asked about it. Yeah,
she's not wrong. It's been going on forever. They don't
(08:18):
want to do anything about it. It's bad for the league.
Too much obstruction. The NBA may have not enough obstruction.
The NBA has made the game wide open. You can't
breathe on somebody when they go from one side of
the floor to the next. The WNBA, it's championship wrestling
almost every night. No harm, no foul, no blood, no ambulance,
carry on. They've got to fix the officiating and they've
(08:38):
got to make it to where players are not so
physically beat up during what is now a forty four
game season and what could likely go to a sixty
game season in the future, so that their bodies are
able to recover enough to where they cannot get hurt
all the time and your star players aren't on the bench.
Imagine how good Indiana would be and what their ratings
would be and what they're following the be if Caitlin
(09:01):
Clark and Sophie Cunningham weren't were healthy and weren't injured
because of over physicality in the league. There's a lot
of things that this league can become, but in order
for it to be great. They need a sports person
at the top running it. And nothing against Kathy Engelbert.
She may have run Deloitte as well as anybody's ever
run it, but Deloitte and a WNBA are two different entities,
(09:24):
and you need to be able to speak the language
of sports and the language of high ego, high alpha
basketball players that are doing things that most people will
never be able to do. A because of their god
given talent and b because of their work ethic to
take that talent to the far extremities of whatever whatever
(09:46):
they're doing night in a night out. Nafisia Collier is
spot on. Asia Wilson is spot on. Cheryl Reeve and
Becky Hammond are in the same boat and they got
to fix this or what they have is a potentially
great league on the because of Caitlin Clark starts to
have so many players hurt that you never know whether
somebody's going to turn tune in or not.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Well, two things, Andy, First off, Uh, what I hope
is I hope that Nafisia Collier is not saying all
of this that she was, you know, potentially taking what
maybe Kathy Ingelbert as a just a private conversation and
then using it for that. I'm hoping that she's not
(10:28):
doing that. Secondly, the other thing that worries me is
where I think that I don't think that this was
a private just a normal private conversation, is that Kathy
Ingelbert doesn't even dismiss or doesn't even you.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Know, say I didn't say it.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
She doesn't disagree with anything that she's She doesn't say, oh,
I'm sorry, she feels.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Like I never said any of that. Exactly, if you
said that to your best, best, top three player in
the league, that's the wrong mess needs to be sending
to a top three player in the league, or any
player in the league for that matter, but especially your
top one of your top three players.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah. That's what concerns me the most about that statement
from Kathy Engelbert is she doesn't she doesn't dismiss, she
doesn't say anything that says I didn't say that, or
you know, I think she took me out of context,
or hey, this was a private conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It was.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well, I'm sorry she feels that way. I'm gonna say
what we said yesterday Adie as the show ended by.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Kathy, Yeah, the league and now listen the commissioner has
to answer first to the owners, but they have to
but the commissioner has to be the go between between
the owners and players and create harmony because the owners
can own a team all they want, but if they
don't have the best basketball players in the world playing
(11:50):
for them, they're not gonna have a league that anybody
cares about. They have a league that people care about
because they care about the successes of those players, and
so the owners, the owners know that there's a little
give and take between themselves and the players, and it's
the commissioner's role while working for the owners to be
(12:11):
able to keep that balance, to be the go between
to find out how much money can we actually give
the players and still not go broke, how much money
can How can we improve the officiating, What do we
do with officials. It's really hard to get officials, you know,
at the high school level right now, especially in Texas,
it's really hard for the UIL to find enough officials
(12:33):
to referee every football game and every basketball game and
every soccer match. People don't want to do it anymore,
and especially at the low level, it doesn't pay much
until you kind of elevate yourself at least to Division
one college basketball. It doesn't pay a lot, so there's
not a lot of people that want to do it.
There's a lot fewer people that want to do it
than there was several years ago. So finding officials is
(12:56):
hard and it is a hard spot to officiate. But
the the league and the competition Committee can say that's
a foul. From now on, make sure you call it.
And if you tell the officials to call something, they're
going to call it, and they've got to figure out
a way. I want a little bit of obstruction in
the NBA because I think it's too easy for players
to score. But I would like a lot less obstruction
(13:18):
in the WNBA because I'd like for kateln Clark to
at least play forty to forty five out of forty
to forty five games, and maybe even fifty to fifty
five games in a sixty game schedule. Yeah, so we'll see.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
What happened well real quick as well before we go
to break, you know, like, because I had asked you
yesterday and you confirmed it that, yes, she's the commissioner
of the WNBA, but at the end of the day,
she is working for the owners. If I'm an owner
of a WNBA team, and I can see the fact
that you know just say the Minnesota Links for instance.
But if you should call your if I'm that owner
(13:53):
and I see that my star player is going after
the commissioner, and the commissioner is like, too bad, I
don't care. I'm like, I'm sorry. You're potentially affecting my
bottom line as an owner the Indiana Fever. Hey, we
would have loved to have Caitlin Clark. That's gonna drum
up more ratings, more money. You're affecting my bottom line
(14:14):
because you don't care about the player safety. Hit the
road by Felicia.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, I think kath Engelbert may not be the commissioner
by the time the season starts. But they got a
lot of work to do. And Afisia Colliers leading that charge,
all right, U TSA and Temple and baseball Analytics and
a few other things. It's the Andy Everage show on
the ticket
Let's get into some more baseball discussion a little bit.
We'll talk analytics. Got the utsa typical game coming up.
Ben Rice lined out to right field to end the third,
so it's two to two going to the fourth. In
New York. All right about halfway through the WNBA season,
it did not look like the Las Vegas Aces were
(00:26):
your typical Las Vegas aces. They were playing poorly. Almost
every press conference you saw Becky Hammon attend after a
game was calling out the team for being sloppy, being lazy,
not playing hard, not playing defense, basically not caring. And
then with about sixteen games to go on this season,
they flipped the switch and I think they won fifteen
(00:46):
of their last sixteen games. And now they won a
game five overtime against Indiana yesterday and they're going to
the w NBA Finals. I think this is the third
time in four years they won back to back before
the Liberty. Actually, I think if they make the if
they make the finals, making the finals, this will be
(01:07):
the fourth straight year they've been there, or three out
of four. Anyway, Another great performance by having him, having
her get to get this team back to the back
to the finals again.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Amazing or as I like to call her, hams, love
me some Hams. You would be correct, though, Andy, Uh,
this will be the third out of four years that
the w that the Las Vegas Aces will be in
the w NBA Finals. So congratulations to them, and you know,
(01:42):
congratulations as well on a Obviously it wasn't what they
wanted with all of the injuries, Thank you referees in
county as well, the Indiana fever. You know, with Sophie
Cunningham being out, all of the other people being out,
with with Caitlin Clark being out, they could have done
(02:03):
the you know, all right, we're done, We're just gonna
quit the rest of the season. No, they they still
played hard and were able to get to where they
were and forced a game five and went into overtime.
A hell of a season by those young ladies, and
the sky's the limit for them.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
But that means yeah, when they get when they get
Cunningham and Clark back next year, look out, they're going
to be a really good team. A lot of those
players will be back as well. That's a team to
that you're gonna have to deal with. And I think
when those two players went out, they people thought they
had no chance of making the playoffs, and they got
to think the seventh seed and they got all the
way to the semifinals. So that was a was a
really good year. All right, that's the good news about
(02:46):
the WNBA. But nafisia call year this week went on
a four minute rant on her exit interview. After Minnesota
lost in the controversial game that Cheryl Reeve got tossed
from and then they lost game four, Collier says she
has some torn ligaments in her ankle from the injury
that occurred on what was deemed to be a no call,
(03:08):
and so she went out and said, I had this
conversation with WNBA Commissioner Kathy Engelbert back in February. Here's
some of the questions. I ask, what are you going
to do about the physicality and about getting the referees
to be better referees. Her response was, only losers complain
about the officials, all right, that's one. Number Two, What
(03:32):
are you going to do with the players and helping
us get more money and how are we going to
be able to benefit more than nine percent of gross
revenues in the league. Her answer, according to the Visha
Collier was you should be on your knees thanking me
for the TV deal I got you. Then she asked,
what about recognizing the fact that it's the players that
(03:57):
are making your league popular, herself, Asia Wilson, and especially
Caitlin Clark, and the fact that Caitlyn Clark is now
worth sixteen million dollars a year off the court should
be something that the league should be proud of. Her answer,
you should be grateful that WNBA gives you a platform
(04:17):
to be able to make that kind of money off
the court. And if you want to google it, there's
four minutes of nothing but negative things that Kathy Engelbert
apparently said to her back in February. Kathy Engelbert has
come back out and said, I'm sorry for the way
that Nafisha feels, will work to try to find out
our differences and the standard regular answer that we've heard
(04:40):
for twenty five years. I don't know Kathy Engelbert. Maybe
she's a really good person. I do know that in
the years that I covered the league and got to
broadcast the games, I got to meet the commissioners who
we did some short interviews with them. I could take
the Donna or Under interview from two thousand and five, six, seven,
and eight. The questions were similar and the answers were
(05:02):
the same, this is what our plans are. They never
got around to finishing their plans. I don't if you
look at sports leagues that have commissioners, you look at
conferences in college football that have commissioners, they know the
game of sports. You may be a great CEO of
a company, an accounting firm, a lawyer firm, and there
(05:24):
are plenty of great people that have that have done
great things in their careers as CEOs of something that
are not sports, but it's rare with somebody that is
a CEO of something that's not sports six seeds as
the CEO of a sports franchise or of a sports league,
and it's far different. You have to deal with immense
(05:48):
egos and not just you know five or six that
you're dealing with with your partners in a firm, but
with twelve thirteen players on what will eventually be eighteen teams.
You have to deal with the revenue that they think
they deserve and that you can actually give them based
on the finances of the league. There are so many
(06:09):
things that I think that you need somebody who's been
a commissioner of the sports league to be able to
speak the same language that the players are speaking. I
don't know if Kathy Engelbert ever even played sports. I
think Donna Orunder did, and I think she was a
college player back in her days. And Donna was the
first or second. They've had three or four commissioners since then.
(06:29):
I'm just using her as an example because she was
always available to us, one of the friendliest people you'll
ever meet. And I think somebody that was trying really
hard to make the league great when they didn't have
a Caitlin Clark or an Asia Wilson, but they did
have Becky, and they did have Sue Byrd, and they
did have Diana Tarassi, and they really didn't market those
players to the level that you're seeing now with the
(06:50):
players that are successful in making the league. I would
move the season from January to July. I would try
to get the revenue up to twenty five thirty. I
would extend the season to sixty games. I would tell players,
if you want to play overseas, you can't play in
the WNBA. Sorry, we're gonna We're gonna have a winner
to spring. The early summer season. I would try to
(07:13):
make rookie contracts better, and I'd also tell them Caitlyn Clark,
Nofiicia Collier, and Asia Wilson are our money making machines.
It's okay to compete hard against them. It's okay to
play play as your best against them and want to
beat them. It's not okay to play so physical that
they're injured and can't play. And Sophie Cunningham should be
(07:36):
able to play on her own merit not as the
Rick Mahorn to Caitlin Clark to protect her. They are
too valuable to the league for them to get physically
beaten up and for the officials to sit there and
say no call. The officiating in all leagues is really,
really hard. If you've never officiated a game, it's tough.
And I'm not calling out any official whatsoever, but the
(07:58):
officials that have been in the WNBA have been there
forever they and seemingly they've never gotten better from one
generation to the next. When Nafisia Collier talked about the
physicality and Becky Emmon was asked about it, it was Cheryl,
We've talked about it, and Becky Hama was asked about it. Yeah,
she's not wrong. It's been going on forever. They don't
(08:18):
want to do anything about it. It's bad for the league.
Too much obstruction. The NBA may have not enough obstruction.
The NBA has made the game wide open. You can't
breathe on somebody when they go from one side of
the floor to the next. The WNBA, it's championship wrestling
almost every night. No harm, no foul, no blood, no ambulance,
carry on. They've got to fix the officiating and they've
(08:38):
got to make it to where players are not so
physically beat up during what is now a forty four
game season and what could likely go to a sixty
game season in the future, so that their bodies are
able to recover enough to where they cannot get hurt
all the time and your star players aren't on the bench.
Imagine how good Indiana would be and what their ratings
would be and what they're following the be if Caitlin
(09:01):
Clark and Sophie Cunningham weren't were healthy and weren't injured
because of over physicality in the league. There's a lot
of things that this league can become, but in order
for it to be great. They need a sports person
at the top running it. And nothing against Kathy Engelbert.
She may have run Deloitte as well as anybody's ever
run it, but Deloitte and a WNBA are two different entities,
(09:24):
and you need to be able to speak the language
of sports and the language of high ego, high alpha
basketball players that are doing things that most people will
never be able to do. A because of their god
given talent and b because of their work ethic to
take that talent to the far extremities of whatever whatever
(09:46):
they're doing night in a night out. Nafisia Collier is
spot on. Asia Wilson is spot on. Cheryl Reeve and
Becky Hammond are in the same boat and they got
to fix this or what they have is a potentially
great league on the because of Caitlin Clark starts to
have so many players hurt that you never know whether
somebody's going to turn tune in or not.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
Well, two things, Andy, First off, Uh, what I hope
is I hope that Nafisia Collier is not saying all
of this that she was, you know, potentially taking what
maybe Kathy Ingelbert as a just a private conversation and
then using it for that. I'm hoping that she's not
(10:28):
doing that. Secondly, the other thing that worries me is
where I think that I don't think that this was
a private just a normal private conversation, is that Kathy
Ingelbert doesn't even dismiss or doesn't even you.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
Know, say I didn't say it.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
She doesn't disagree with anything that she's She doesn't say, oh,
I'm sorry, she feels.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Like I never said any of that. Exactly, if you
said that to your best, best, top three player in
the league, that's the wrong mess needs to be sending
to a top three player in the league, or any
player in the league for that matter, but especially your
top one of your top three players.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Yeah. That's what concerns me the most about that statement
from Kathy Engelbert is she doesn't she doesn't dismiss, she
doesn't say anything that says I didn't say that, or
you know, I think she took me out of context,
or hey, this was a private conversation.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
It was.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well, I'm sorry she feels that way. I'm gonna say
what we said yesterday Adie as the show ended by.
Speaker 1 (11:30):
Kathy, Yeah, the league and now listen the commissioner has
to answer first to the owners, but they have to
but the commissioner has to be the go between between
the owners and players and create harmony because the owners
can own a team all they want, but if they
don't have the best basketball players in the world playing
(11:50):
for them, they're not gonna have a league that anybody
cares about. They have a league that people care about
because they care about the successes of those players, and
so the owners, the owners know that there's a little
give and take between themselves and the players, and it's
the commissioner's role while working for the owners to be
(12:11):
able to keep that balance, to be the go between
to find out how much money can we actually give
the players and still not go broke, how much money
can How can we improve the officiating, What do we
do with officials. It's really hard to get officials, you know,
at the high school level right now, especially in Texas,
it's really hard for the UIL to find enough officials
(12:33):
to referee every football game and every basketball game and
every soccer match. People don't want to do it anymore,
and especially at the low level, it doesn't pay much
until you kind of elevate yourself at least to Division
one college basketball. It doesn't pay a lot, so there's
not a lot of people that want to do it.
There's a lot fewer people that want to do it
than there was several years ago. So finding officials is
(12:56):
hard and it is a hard spot to officiate. But
the the league and the competition Committee can say that's
a foul. From now on, make sure you call it.
And if you tell the officials to call something, they're
going to call it, and they've got to figure out
a way. I want a little bit of obstruction in
the NBA because I think it's too easy for players
to score. But I would like a lot less obstruction
(13:18):
in the WNBA because I'd like for kateln Clark to
at least play forty to forty five out of forty
to forty five games, and maybe even fifty to fifty
five games in a sixty game schedule. Yeah, so we'll see.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
What happened well real quick as well before we go
to break, you know, like, because I had asked you
yesterday and you confirmed it that, yes, she's the commissioner
of the WNBA, but at the end of the day,
she is working for the owners. If I'm an owner
of a WNBA team, and I can see the fact
that you know just say the Minnesota Links for instance.
But if you should call your if I'm that owner
(13:53):
and I see that my star player is going after
the commissioner, and the commissioner is like, too bad, I
don't care. I'm like, I'm sorry. You're potentially affecting my
bottom line as an owner the Indiana Fever. Hey, we
would have loved to have Caitlin Clark. That's gonna drum
up more ratings, more money. You're affecting my bottom line
(14:14):
because you don't care about the player safety. Hit the
road by Felicia.
Speaker 1 (14:20):
Yeah, I think kath Engelbert may not be the commissioner
by the time the season starts. But they got a
lot of work to do. And Afisia Colliers leading that charge,
all right, U TSA and Temple and baseball Analytics and
a few other things. It's the Andy Everage show on
the ticket
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