May 13, 2025 • 12 mins
What are the odds that a coin flip and a pair of ping pong balls could change the future of an entire NBA franchise?
In this electric episode of The Ben and Skin Show, your favorite crew—Ben Rogers, Jeff “Skin” Wade, Kevin “KT” Turner, and Krystina Ray—breaks down the unbelievable, improbable, and absolutely thrilling moment the Dallas Mavericks won the NBA Draft Lottery with less than a 2% chance… and landed the generational talent, Cooper Flagg.The Mavs defy the odds—literally the same odds as rolling double sixes twice in a row—and win the lottery. The guys break down the surreal behind-the-scenes story from the lottery room, where even NBA execs couldn’t believe what they were seeing.Why this 18-year-old phenom is being compared to Anthony Davis and LeBron James—and why trading him would be basketball blasphemy.Should the architect of this new era stay or go? The crew weighs the loyalty of stars like Kyrie and AD against the pressure to reset leadership. Who stays, who goes, and how do you balance two timelines—win now vs. build for the future?Plus, Yacht Rock trivia, summer shandies, and a Stars watch party at Rollertown Beerworks—because no one blends sports, beer, and absurdity like this crew.🎧 Don’t miss this episode—it’s the turning point Mavs fans have been waiting for.
Hit subscribe, leave us a review, and share this episode with your fellow fans. The Cooper Flagg era has begun, and The Ben and Skin Show is your front-row seat to the madness.
In this electric episode of The Ben and Skin Show, your favorite crew—Ben Rogers, Jeff “Skin” Wade, Kevin “KT” Turner, and Krystina Ray—breaks down the unbelievable, improbable, and absolutely thrilling moment the Dallas Mavericks won the NBA Draft Lottery with less than a 2% chance… and landed the generational talent, Cooper Flagg.The Mavs defy the odds—literally the same odds as rolling double sixes twice in a row—and win the lottery. The guys break down the surreal behind-the-scenes story from the lottery room, where even NBA execs couldn’t believe what they were seeing.Why this 18-year-old phenom is being compared to Anthony Davis and LeBron James—and why trading him would be basketball blasphemy.Should the architect of this new era stay or go? The crew weighs the loyalty of stars like Kyrie and AD against the pressure to reset leadership. Who stays, who goes, and how do you balance two timelines—win now vs. build for the future?Plus, Yacht Rock trivia, summer shandies, and a Stars watch party at Rollertown Beerworks—because no one blends sports, beer, and absurdity like this crew.🎧 Don’t miss this episode—it’s the turning point Mavs fans have been waiting for.
Hit subscribe, leave us a review, and share this episode with your fellow fans. The Cooper Flagg era has begun, and The Ben and Skin Show is your front-row seat to the madness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Segment right here is brought to you by roller Town
beer Works, and man, I'm so excited for what we're
doing Thursday night. We're gonna have our yacht rock trivia
that gets going early in the evening. I am your host.
It's the celebration of our new cocktail, Summer Breeze, the
return of our Summer shandyes, we do this every year
(00:20):
and it's very fun. We're gonna play music. You're gonna
write down the name of the artist, the name of
the song, and then there's a trivia question for each song.
We're getting started at seven so that we can rap
at eight thirty, and as soon as we wrap at
eight thirty, the puck drops and we're having a Stars
watching party. Jazzy's Tacos is gonna be there serving up food.
(00:40):
It's going to be a blast. Put a lot of
time in putting this thing together. I think it's fun.
I think you'll have a good time. And then the
other thing is if you want to come hang out
and talk Cooper Flag in person, I'll be drinking beer
and talking Cooper Flag with the Stars on in the
background at eight thirty. So I would love to have
you come out there's a lot to celebrate. We're gonna
(01:01):
have a lot of fun. See you Thursday night, kicking
off our yacht Rock Weekend Rollertown Beer Works. But right
now it's time for this, all right, let's.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Get back into it. The Cooper Flag situation.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Story of the year.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Mavericks win the Draft lottery unexpectedly last night, with a
little un two percent chance of winning it.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
By the way, if y'all want to, y'all should go read.
There's an article in the New York Times, which is
part of the Athletic Now, and it's written by a
guy who was in the room, a journalist I don't
have his name off. The time room, the room where
the ping pong balls are dropped. So for the Mavericks,
matt Riccarty was in there, their assistant GM. So what
happens if you don't know. They all go into a
room and they don't have their phones or anything, and
(01:46):
so there's a representative from each team and they know
the outcome and they have to just sit in a
room sequestered until the world finds out. So matt Riccarty's
sitting in a room with all of his peers knowing
that they won the lottery and just like in shock,
you know, and it's a really fun article to read.
It's again part of the athletic New York Times thing,
but it is they He wrote about it that the
(02:09):
tone of the room was absolute disbelief, like all the gms,
you know, assistant gms. And then they have to sit
in the room and watch the ESPN broadcast and when
the you know, Tatum, the guy who's the deputy of
the Maverick or deputy of the NBA, goes the number
eleven pick the Portland Trailblazers, and you know, the Mavericks
(02:30):
are top four. He said, the room again broke out
in laughter. It was such disbelief in the room that
the craziest thing happened. Here's a bunch of people that
work in the NBA. They know what happened, and when
they're watching it again, they're laughing because they can't believe
that it happened. So Chicago, they somebody hit a full
(02:52):
court shot or something and they tied the MAVs and
then lost a coin flip. We want to coin flip
with the Chicago Bulls to be the number eleven team
instead of them twelve team, And so they're at twelve
and the MAVs are at one and they were tied.
Uh yeah, they had to flip a coin. Unbelievable, yep, Okay.
So I was looking at things that have the exact
same odds one point eight percent, and there's one thing
that stands out. If you have two die and you
(03:15):
roll them back to back double sixes, oh wow, that's
the one point eight percent likely it according to what
I saw on the internet. So think how hard that
is to do. Just walk up straight up to a
crabs table and say, I'm gonna roll double sixes twice
in a row, and I'm only rolling twice, okay. And
then not only that, the chances based on odds that
(03:36):
the top three picks or the Mavericks, the Spurs, and
the sixers that all jumped ahead was one in one
hundred thousand Jesus God.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So two it was a little undred and two percent chance.
So two, that's a one and fifty chance. It's basically
what it is. Yeah, right, So just take your hand
in the ball of one in fifty yeah, and your
they picked our ball, and we are back. We're back, baby,
We're back. The last thing I said to Benn yesterday
as I walked out of the bathroom, was I guess
I'm gonna have to be a WNBA fan now. I
(04:06):
don't know. I don't really like basketball anymore. So that's
what I left Ben with yesterday as I took off
to the Ranger game. Big Ranger win last night, by
the way.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah. And I didn't argue with it because I've been
incredibly sports depressed too, and mav depressed, and you know,
just leaving after that crappy ass season where you shot
yourself in the nads and all these self inflicted wounds
for you just to get the eleventh pick in the draft.
It was heartbreaking. I didn't even want to watch. I
didn't allow myself to get my hopes up in any way.
(04:36):
And you know, we talked about earlier how it just
went down. But the fact that they have Cooper Flag now,
I woke up so excited. And then every national sports
show that I watched getting ready for the day was
talking about how the Mavericks should trade for Giannis and
I'm like, I don't I don't understand even that sentiment,
like the idea of Yannis is gonna be thirty one
(04:59):
and Cooper Rush eighteen. He want to be nineteen until December. Yeah,
And it's like, why would you get that much younger?
Like why would you shrink the window? And I started panicing, going, man,
is there any checks and balances in the Mavericks organization
right now? Or is Nico allowed to do whatever he wants?
Because I know for him, he's thinking about the next
three years, not the next decade. And so I love
(05:20):
McMahon being out there saying that Nico won't be allowed
to trade him, or maybe Nico doesn't want to him,
whatever it is, But I hate that that's even a discussion.
Why would anyone do that. I think there's decent logic
as to why someone would do that. Now, I don't
agree with it, and I wouldn't do it, but Giannis
is one of the seventy five greatest players of all time,
(05:42):
and he's in his prime, and so if you put
him together with at least one, arguably two other greatest
seventy five greatest ever, there's an argument that you can
go win a championship right now before San Antonio and
Oklahoma City become unbeatable. But I'm not saying I would
do that, but I'm saying that's a logical argument. I
can understand somebody looking at it like that if you
(06:03):
don't care about the future of the organization. Like what
fans embrace is hope, and when you have a young star,
you have hope. And that's what everybody lost when they
traded Luca and so, yes, go get the youngest player
and have a fifteen year window. Don't just try to
go win it in two to three years. Not to
mention that the MAVs don't have their picks when they're
probably if you go with super old guys right now
(06:24):
and contend for two years when they're tanking, presumably they
won't even have their first round pick. So this is
breathed all fresh new life into the Mavericks in this
big long term picture here for them. Now you look
at Cooper Flag and Derek Lively. The second you're like, Okay,
you got two super young, talented players to build around.
(06:46):
You're contending now, but you also have a super bright future.
Now this changes everything. Yeah, I think it's I think
they're in an unbelievable position, and I again, I don't
know what Niko's thoughts are. In that same Athletic article,
Matt Riccardi is in the room talking about drafting Cooper
Flag like he's it's direct quotes. And then even last night,
(07:09):
which by the way, I get that we're celebrating Schams.
He's had quite a rise. We don't need to have
him interviewing people. It's not what he does. He's not
good at that. But anyways, like, think about what a
no brainer this is when the other prospects are in
the room and he's asking Rolando Blackman about Cooper Flag
(07:31):
like right, like, this isn't the draft, this was the lottery,
and so he's just such a generational talent. I would
argue he's the I would argue, I mean, obviously Wemby
is probably the greatest prospect of all time, maybe the
greatest prospect. Obviously, the greatest prospect since Lebron. I would
say that Cooper Flagg is probably the most heralded prospect
(07:54):
since Anthony Davis came out right, So take anything for
him if you're the GM of the Mavericks outside of Wimby,
well without So we're not talking about money and stuff.
The other thing is like you're about to have the guy,
you know what his starting salary is? Did you just
say thirteen point eight. Well nice, So he's basically going
(08:15):
to be making less than PJ. Washington Junior and playing
his position, which that's all the thing they got to
figure out. But I think like there's no real rush
to do anything. In other words, unless you're just dead
set on getting Yannis, I would be shocked, if you're honest,
is not a Spur that seems to be the biggest
layup of all time, although man John Hollinger put forth
(08:40):
a circumstance where it's like, man, you could probably trade
Anthony Davis and rebuild and be a contender in a year, right,
a young contender in a year. I thought about that too.
So if the Spurs are willing to go get Yannis,
would they be willing to go get a d or
would you even trade him? But I'm just saying hypothetically,
(09:02):
the timelines all now are flipped like it was, okay,
Kai and Ad thirty two and thirty three years old.
Now it's one of your best players is eighteen. Yeah,
I think the so the Mavericks have two timelines. And
this is kind of what I was saying yesterday about
you know, I realize everyone's attitude about the you know
(09:23):
Anthony Davis and Kyrie's age, but I was like, if
you look at the rest of their roster, it's young.
Like their best players are guys that are about to
enter their prime or haven't entered their prime, so they
really already did have you know, two timelines. This just
takes it and exponentially accelerates it. And I would argue
that you're five to six years away from Cooper Flag
(09:45):
and Derek Lively the second being in their prime, So
those guys have a chance. Like I think, I told
you this last night, Ben, I would leave the team
as it is, and I would bring Cooper Flag off
the bench. I like that. I you know, I look
at Gafford and each make fourteen East each in the
last year of their deal. I wonder how that plays out.
(10:05):
I don't want to just have them play and get
nothing for them. M hm, you know what I mean.
I think they're both valuable, Yeah, but I don't think
in this I don't think you can keep them right,
I don't know, maybe not long term, but I mean
I think you can be in a situation where you
can go compete next year with the team you have
if you just augment it a little bit, but then
they walk at the end of the year and you
get nothing for him type deal, or you know, you
(10:27):
could do signing trades with them, or you can keep them.
I mean, I think long term, I think it's very
unlikely that they keep Daniel Gafford and Derek Lively the second,
because both those guys are starting centers, and I don't
think they're going to be able to pay both guys
starting center money. And I think they know that, which
is why you see Gafford's money or Gafford's name being
dangled out for trades. They're not going to pay two
(10:48):
starting centers starting center money, especially with Anthony Davis who
can slide over to the five for long stretches. There's
also all this talk about firing Nico, this idea that Okay,
now's the perfect time to fire Nico because now you've
got it's the perfect time to just start anew and
I don't think it is necessarily because dude, Kai and
Ad love Nico and this is his vision right now.
(11:10):
So I don't know that because that's a big if.
What's going to happen with Kyrie obviously, and that's tied
to Nico and Kyrie can opt out. Yeah, so I
just think there's a lot to figure out. I haven't
gotten the sense from anybody for one second that you know,
a leaving Nico of his responsibilities is even in consideration.
But it would have happened, if it was going to happen,
(11:30):
I would have thought so. Unless now there's some real
back channel stuff going on, because the line to be
the GM for the Mavericks forms to the left.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Londo black all right.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I'll never forget the time KT looked Rolando dead in
his eye and he said, maybe.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
You've lost a step, need a little more energy. The
low T center is something you should maybe try out.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
And it was not that convincing for a row, but
he took KT's advice. Stick around with Christina. She's playing
music next right here on the Eagle.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
There you going, You know, I want to get my
sack back, dude, God bless Jesus,
Segment right here is brought to you by roller Town
beer Works, and man, I'm so excited for what we're
doing Thursday night. We're gonna have our yacht rock trivia
that gets going early in the evening. I am your host.
It's the celebration of our new cocktail, Summer Breeze, the
return of our Summer shandyes, we do this every year
(00:20):
and it's very fun. We're gonna play music. You're gonna
write down the name of the artist, the name of
the song, and then there's a trivia question for each song.
We're getting started at seven so that we can rap
at eight thirty, and as soon as we wrap at
eight thirty, the puck drops and we're having a Stars
watching party. Jazzy's Tacos is gonna be there serving up food.
(00:40):
It's going to be a blast. Put a lot of
time in putting this thing together. I think it's fun.
I think you'll have a good time. And then the
other thing is if you want to come hang out
and talk Cooper Flag in person, I'll be drinking beer
and talking Cooper Flag with the Stars on in the
background at eight thirty. So I would love to have
you come out there's a lot to celebrate. We're gonna
(01:01):
have a lot of fun. See you Thursday night, kicking
off our yacht Rock Weekend Rollertown Beer Works. But right
now it's time for this, all right, let's.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Get back into it. The Cooper Flag situation.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Story of the year.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Mavericks win the Draft lottery unexpectedly last night, with a
little un two percent chance of winning it.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
By the way, if y'all want to, y'all should go read.
There's an article in the New York Times, which is
part of the Athletic Now, and it's written by a
guy who was in the room, a journalist I don't
have his name off. The time room, the room where
the ping pong balls are dropped. So for the Mavericks,
matt Riccarty was in there, their assistant GM. So what
happens if you don't know. They all go into a
room and they don't have their phones or anything, and
(01:46):
so there's a representative from each team and they know
the outcome and they have to just sit in a
room sequestered until the world finds out. So matt Riccarty's
sitting in a room with all of his peers knowing
that they won the lottery and just like in shock,
you know, and it's a really fun article to read.
It's again part of the athletic New York Times thing,
but it is they He wrote about it that the
(02:09):
tone of the room was absolute disbelief, like all the gms,
you know, assistant gms. And then they have to sit
in the room and watch the ESPN broadcast and when
the you know, Tatum, the guy who's the deputy of
the Maverick or deputy of the NBA, goes the number
eleven pick the Portland Trailblazers, and you know, the Mavericks
(02:30):
are top four. He said, the room again broke out
in laughter. It was such disbelief in the room that
the craziest thing happened. Here's a bunch of people that
work in the NBA. They know what happened, and when
they're watching it again, they're laughing because they can't believe
that it happened. So Chicago, they somebody hit a full
(02:52):
court shot or something and they tied the MAVs and
then lost a coin flip. We want to coin flip
with the Chicago Bulls to be the number eleven team
instead of them twelve team, And so they're at twelve
and the MAVs are at one and they were tied.
Uh yeah, they had to flip a coin. Unbelievable, yep, Okay.
So I was looking at things that have the exact
same odds one point eight percent, and there's one thing
that stands out. If you have two die and you
(03:15):
roll them back to back double sixes, oh wow, that's
the one point eight percent likely it according to what
I saw on the internet. So think how hard that
is to do. Just walk up straight up to a
crabs table and say, I'm gonna roll double sixes twice
in a row, and I'm only rolling twice, okay. And
then not only that, the chances based on odds that
(03:36):
the top three picks or the Mavericks, the Spurs, and
the sixers that all jumped ahead was one in one
hundred thousand Jesus God.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
So two it was a little undred and two percent chance.
So two, that's a one and fifty chance. It's basically
what it is. Yeah, right, So just take your hand
in the ball of one in fifty yeah, and your
they picked our ball, and we are back. We're back, baby,
We're back. The last thing I said to Benn yesterday
as I walked out of the bathroom, was I guess
I'm gonna have to be a WNBA fan now. I
(04:06):
don't know. I don't really like basketball anymore. So that's
what I left Ben with yesterday as I took off
to the Ranger game. Big Ranger win last night, by
the way.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah. And I didn't argue with it because I've been
incredibly sports depressed too, and mav depressed, and you know,
just leaving after that crappy ass season where you shot
yourself in the nads and all these self inflicted wounds
for you just to get the eleventh pick in the draft.
It was heartbreaking. I didn't even want to watch. I
didn't allow myself to get my hopes up in any way.
(04:36):
And you know, we talked about earlier how it just
went down. But the fact that they have Cooper Flag now,
I woke up so excited. And then every national sports
show that I watched getting ready for the day was
talking about how the Mavericks should trade for Giannis and
I'm like, I don't I don't understand even that sentiment,
like the idea of Yannis is gonna be thirty one
(04:59):
and Cooper Rush eighteen. He want to be nineteen until December. Yeah,
And it's like, why would you get that much younger?
Like why would you shrink the window? And I started panicing, going, man,
is there any checks and balances in the Mavericks organization
right now? Or is Nico allowed to do whatever he wants?
Because I know for him, he's thinking about the next
three years, not the next decade. And so I love
(05:20):
McMahon being out there saying that Nico won't be allowed
to trade him, or maybe Nico doesn't want to him,
whatever it is, But I hate that that's even a discussion.
Why would anyone do that. I think there's decent logic
as to why someone would do that. Now, I don't
agree with it, and I wouldn't do it, but Giannis
is one of the seventy five greatest players of all time,
(05:42):
and he's in his prime, and so if you put
him together with at least one, arguably two other greatest
seventy five greatest ever, there's an argument that you can
go win a championship right now before San Antonio and
Oklahoma City become unbeatable. But I'm not saying I would
do that, but I'm saying that's a logical argument. I
can understand somebody looking at it like that if you
(06:03):
don't care about the future of the organization. Like what
fans embrace is hope, and when you have a young star,
you have hope. And that's what everybody lost when they
traded Luca and so, yes, go get the youngest player
and have a fifteen year window. Don't just try to
go win it in two to three years. Not to
mention that the MAVs don't have their picks when they're
probably if you go with super old guys right now
(06:24):
and contend for two years when they're tanking, presumably they
won't even have their first round pick. So this is
breathed all fresh new life into the Mavericks in this
big long term picture here for them. Now you look
at Cooper Flag and Derek Lively. The second you're like, Okay,
you got two super young, talented players to build around.
(06:46):
You're contending now, but you also have a super bright future.
Now this changes everything. Yeah, I think it's I think
they're in an unbelievable position, and I again, I don't
know what Niko's thoughts are. In that same Athletic article,
Matt Riccardi is in the room talking about drafting Cooper
Flag like he's it's direct quotes. And then even last night,
(07:09):
which by the way, I get that we're celebrating Schams.
He's had quite a rise. We don't need to have
him interviewing people. It's not what he does. He's not
good at that. But anyways, like, think about what a
no brainer this is when the other prospects are in
the room and he's asking Rolando Blackman about Cooper Flag
(07:31):
like right, like, this isn't the draft, this was the lottery,
and so he's just such a generational talent. I would
argue he's the I would argue, I mean, obviously Wemby
is probably the greatest prospect of all time, maybe the
greatest prospect. Obviously, the greatest prospect since Lebron. I would
say that Cooper Flagg is probably the most heralded prospect
(07:54):
since Anthony Davis came out right, So take anything for
him if you're the GM of the Mavericks outside of Wimby,
well without So we're not talking about money and stuff.
The other thing is like you're about to have the guy,
you know what his starting salary is? Did you just
say thirteen point eight. Well nice, So he's basically going
(08:15):
to be making less than PJ. Washington Junior and playing
his position, which that's all the thing they got to
figure out. But I think like there's no real rush
to do anything. In other words, unless you're just dead
set on getting Yannis, I would be shocked, if you're honest,
is not a Spur that seems to be the biggest
layup of all time, although man John Hollinger put forth
(08:40):
a circumstance where it's like, man, you could probably trade
Anthony Davis and rebuild and be a contender in a year, right,
a young contender in a year. I thought about that too.
So if the Spurs are willing to go get Yannis,
would they be willing to go get a d or
would you even trade him? But I'm just saying hypothetically,
(09:02):
the timelines all now are flipped like it was, okay,
Kai and Ad thirty two and thirty three years old.
Now it's one of your best players is eighteen. Yeah,
I think the so the Mavericks have two timelines. And
this is kind of what I was saying yesterday about
you know, I realize everyone's attitude about the you know
(09:23):
Anthony Davis and Kyrie's age, but I was like, if
you look at the rest of their roster, it's young.
Like their best players are guys that are about to
enter their prime or haven't entered their prime, so they
really already did have you know, two timelines. This just
takes it and exponentially accelerates it. And I would argue
that you're five to six years away from Cooper Flag
(09:45):
and Derek Lively the second being in their prime, So
those guys have a chance. Like I think, I told
you this last night, Ben, I would leave the team
as it is, and I would bring Cooper Flag off
the bench. I like that. I you know, I look
at Gafford and each make fourteen East each in the
last year of their deal. I wonder how that plays out.
(10:05):
I don't want to just have them play and get
nothing for them. M hm, you know what I mean.
I think they're both valuable, Yeah, but I don't think
in this I don't think you can keep them right,
I don't know, maybe not long term, but I mean
I think you can be in a situation where you
can go compete next year with the team you have
if you just augment it a little bit, but then
they walk at the end of the year and you
get nothing for him type deal, or you know, you
(10:27):
could do signing trades with them, or you can keep them.
I mean, I think long term, I think it's very
unlikely that they keep Daniel Gafford and Derek Lively the second,
because both those guys are starting centers, and I don't
think they're going to be able to pay both guys
starting center money. And I think they know that, which
is why you see Gafford's money or Gafford's name being
dangled out for trades. They're not going to pay two
(10:48):
starting centers starting center money, especially with Anthony Davis who
can slide over to the five for long stretches. There's
also all this talk about firing Nico, this idea that Okay,
now's the perfect time to fire Nico because now you've
got it's the perfect time to just start anew and
I don't think it is necessarily because dude, Kai and
Ad love Nico and this is his vision right now.
(11:10):
So I don't know that because that's a big if.
What's going to happen with Kyrie obviously, and that's tied
to Nico and Kyrie can opt out. Yeah, so I
just think there's a lot to figure out. I haven't
gotten the sense from anybody for one second that you know,
a leaving Nico of his responsibilities is even in consideration.
But it would have happened, if it was going to happen,
(11:30):
I would have thought so. Unless now there's some real
back channel stuff going on, because the line to be
the GM for the Mavericks forms to the left.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Londo black all right.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I'll never forget the time KT looked Rolando dead in
his eye and he said, maybe.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
You've lost a step, need a little more energy. The
low T center is something you should maybe try out.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
And it was not that convincing for a row, but
he took KT's advice. Stick around with Christina. She's playing
music next right here on the Eagle.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
There you going, You know, I want to get my
sack back, dude, God bless Jesus,
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