November 5, 2025 • 7 mins
"Would you trade a generational talent for a run-stopper if it meant salvaging the next two seasons?"In this fiery and thought-provoking episode of The Ben and Skin Show, hosts Ben Rogers, Jeff “Skin” Wade, Kevin “KT” Turner, and Krystina Ray dissect the Cowboys’ blockbuster trade for defensive tackle Quinnen Williams — and the ripple effect it has on the franchise’s future.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I've been in Skin Show ninety seven point one the Eagle.
(00:02):
This segment is brought to you by Frankel and Frankel.
Those gentlemen have been doing this for over thirty years,
advocating for injury victims, getting them what they deserve. Call
the Frankeles First. As soon as you get hurt in
a wrecker on the job site, that someone else's fault.
They were careless or negligent, call two one, four and
all threes three, three, three, thirty three, thirty three. Got
some good information on the Rock and Roll Hall of
(00:23):
Fame ceremony in Christina's cookie jar here in fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Right now, it's time for this.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Now it's around the sports k tod pun Twins as
all the sports.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yes, all right, cows didn't make a couple of trades.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Yesterday at five o'clock, we'll talk about Logan Wilson in
the podcast that he does with his wife, the new
Cowboys linebacker.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You'll get to meet him and his wife.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Is it an iHeart deal?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's not yet, but maybe they are in negotiation.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
It's not like the Jenna Jamison podcast we've been promoting.
We've promoting that here commercials for it. I should have
listened closer. Probably so Quinn Williams is here.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Have you guys changed how you feel about the trade?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
I mean yesterday, this is all kind of happening right
when we hit the air, thinking about it, reading on anything.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think you guys at.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I think you guys are more down on it than
I am.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, I'm down on it.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I love the idea of Quinn Williams at his age,
he'll be twenty eight in December. I don't think the
Cowboys have a chance this year, so it's for next
year and the year after. And I just think, man,
you give up a first and a second. Those are
assets that you would have had for much longer than
the next two years. Now, your chances of getting somebody
as talented as Quinn and Williams aren't good. And so
(01:41):
I get the thought process, let's go for it right now,
but I don't have confidence in who's making those decisions.
And I think it was total reactionary, trying to be
in the headlines and still like tiled dialed into the
Micah Parsons thing.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And so I look at it as a net gain
and I just don't like it. What do you think, Kittie,
I think it's chasing your tail.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
This is what I think. So, look, whatever you think
about this season. The Colways want to stay relevant this season,
that's fine, whatever, Okay, But even twenty six and twenty
seven where you have Quinn Williams, you're like, Okay, that's
good and that will help us a lot. The problem
is giving up half of your trade compensation for what
you got for Micah to go get Quinn Williams, when honestly,
(02:25):
Quinn williams salary cap hit for the next two years
is the same as Mike's is, okay, based on how
his contract is structured. So like, I don't understand to me, like,
you have this chance and it's Mike's money, so we
can do a lot of stuff, and you're probably gonna
try to sign George Pickens. You just have all this
like minimum wage talent that you could go get.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And look, you.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Can't just say okay, we're gonna draft fine and be okay.
They've had some draft struggles last couple years, but it's
not like they have struggled to draft good defensive players.
I can go on along with Treyvon Diggs was a
good draft. Yeah, it was Deron Bland was a good
draft pick. Over shown is a good draft pick. Oh
so DIGGI zooah is a good draft pick. You can
kind of go on, Micah Parsons was a good draft pick.
They can draft if it's players like so to me,
(03:13):
to just give that much up first.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
In a second, is what you give up for, like quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And stuff in this league or or Sauce Gardner or
Sauce Gardner, who's I mean, Quin Williams is a better
player at his position now than Sauce Gardner. Sauce Gardner's
on a year and a half slide. Yeah, that was
a bold thing that Indianapolis had.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, this is all about stopping the run because yes,
you know, I think he's near the end of the
league and pressures and stuff like he's not ever gonna
put pressure on a quarterback really, but if he stuffs
the run.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I mean you I thought Kenny Clark was for that,
Like what, here's what I here's why I think about
it and why and look, you know, arguing or not arguing,
but talking about how much you gave up, that's all valid.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I get all that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, but we are on five consecutive years of the
Cowboys having nothing disruptive in the middle, and a lot
of times other players make plays because you have a
middle guy who is disruptive, and they got they settled.
They clearly wanted Williams and they settled for Kenny Clark.
The Jets couldn't do a deal with Micah, so they
(04:14):
were going to do this. They've eyeballed this guy, They've
targeted him, they wanted him, they weren't able to get him.
And so what it tells me, whether it's right or wrong,
as someone who kills the Cowboys a lot for seeming
to not have a plan, it's clear we have to
have this guy to build our defense out, and so
that's what they've put their chips on. They'll either be
(04:35):
right or they will be wrong. Now you really got
me thinking on the Kenny Clark thing of using all
three of those guys. I'm assuming Kenny Clark is gone.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
But yeah, he'll be gone.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
But the point being is that if they feel like
Quinn Williams will make that big of a difference, and
they have him and Osi in the middle and start
building out from there, they do still have some assets
to go get some players. They got to go get
the right players. But man, we're on a four to
five year rod on of them not having a guy
like this and killing their defense.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I just think there's what talk about the trade. You
have to talk about from two perspectives. One is Micah involved,
or we can just say Mike has happened. Move on, right,
take that that part out of it, which we'll agree
was terrible how they hand it. And that's hard for
me to do because quin Williams is a great player.
Micah Parsons. You don't get those guys.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You won't get another guy like him, right, But that's
a separate thing.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And I know, I know that's like a go number
one in the draft type guy unless he's got some
warts and concerns, like you're not gonna You're gonna have
to have one of the top five picks in a
draft typically to get a guy like Michael.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I mean, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
I mean it's it's weird to know Quinn Williams taking
what six or seven picks higher than Micah was, you know,
but like I just I think that defensive tackle, Okay,
that's good, Okay, go wreck a game.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, Aaron Donald could do that. Is Quin Williams that No,
he's not. He's very very good.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
He's not that like linebackers and safeties, not showing up
for the run fits doesn't help you there, Like what
if I.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I can't tell I can't tell you.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
But what if Osa has been really good this year
and we don't have a linebacker who can show up
to the gap on time?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
No, but like a play No. I agree with all that.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
And look, if they don't go do anything else to
fortify their defense, it's a disaster. But I'm saying they're
establishing this has been our biggest issue for half a decade.
We're addressing it.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I hope.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
So, I hope it's a plan for a team that
never has a plan. I hope it's not just Jerry
winging it going ha ha. Did you see we went
out and got Quinn Williams. He used to be really good. Like,
I hope it's not. I hope it is the beginning
of something. But how could anyone have confidence that it is.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
There's a chance that if you add up the draft spots,
just the draft spots, what you gave up will be
you gave up more for Quinn Williams, then you got
back for Michael Parsons and in a vacuum Mike and
Parsons is ten times the player Quinn Williams.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
That makes it.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I don't disagree with any of that, but I was
just Bill.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I look at it as what are you going to
do moving forward?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, you need to go if you're doing this, you
need to go all in the next two years after
this and that's it and you're cooked after that, complete gut.
It rebuilt after dak.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Man he is eighty two. Huh he is like eighty
two or something, So yeah, all right, there you have it.
Around the sports
I've been in Skin Show ninety seven point one the Eagle.
(00:02):
This segment is brought to you by Frankel and Frankel.
Those gentlemen have been doing this for over thirty years,
advocating for injury victims, getting them what they deserve. Call
the Frankeles First. As soon as you get hurt in
a wrecker on the job site, that someone else's fault.
They were careless or negligent, call two one, four and
all threes three, three, three, thirty three, thirty three. Got
some good information on the Rock and Roll Hall of
(00:23):
Fame ceremony in Christina's cookie jar here in fifteen minutes.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Right now, it's time for this.
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Now it's around the sports k tod pun Twins as
all the sports.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Yes, all right, cows didn't make a couple of trades.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
Yesterday at five o'clock, we'll talk about Logan Wilson in
the podcast that he does with his wife, the new
Cowboys linebacker.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
You'll get to meet him and his wife.
Speaker 1 (00:47):
Is it an iHeart deal?
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's not yet, but maybe they are in negotiation.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
It's not like the Jenna Jamison podcast we've been promoting.
We've promoting that here commercials for it. I should have
listened closer. Probably so Quinn Williams is here.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Have you guys changed how you feel about the trade?
Speaker 4 (01:06):
I mean yesterday, this is all kind of happening right
when we hit the air, thinking about it, reading on anything.
Speaker 2 (01:13):
I think you guys at.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
I think you guys are more down on it than
I am.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, I'm down on it.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
I love the idea of Quinn Williams at his age,
he'll be twenty eight in December. I don't think the
Cowboys have a chance this year, so it's for next
year and the year after. And I just think, man,
you give up a first and a second. Those are
assets that you would have had for much longer than
the next two years. Now, your chances of getting somebody
as talented as Quinn and Williams aren't good. And so
(01:41):
I get the thought process, let's go for it right now,
but I don't have confidence in who's making those decisions.
And I think it was total reactionary, trying to be
in the headlines and still like tiled dialed into the
Micah Parsons thing.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
And so I look at it as a net gain
and I just don't like it. What do you think, Kittie,
I think it's chasing your tail.
Speaker 4 (02:02):
This is what I think. So, look, whatever you think
about this season. The Colways want to stay relevant this season,
that's fine, whatever, Okay, But even twenty six and twenty
seven where you have Quinn Williams, you're like, Okay, that's
good and that will help us a lot. The problem
is giving up half of your trade compensation for what
you got for Micah to go get Quinn Williams, when honestly,
(02:25):
Quinn williams salary cap hit for the next two years
is the same as Mike's is, okay, based on how
his contract is structured. So like, I don't understand to me, like,
you have this chance and it's Mike's money, so we
can do a lot of stuff, and you're probably gonna
try to sign George Pickens. You just have all this
like minimum wage talent that you could go get.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
And look, you.
Speaker 4 (02:49):
Can't just say okay, we're gonna draft fine and be okay.
They've had some draft struggles last couple years, but it's
not like they have struggled to draft good defensive players.
I can go on along with Treyvon Diggs was a
good draft. Yeah, it was Deron Bland was a good
draft pick. Over shown is a good draft pick. Oh
so DIGGI zooah is a good draft pick. You can
kind of go on, Micah Parsons was a good draft pick.
They can draft if it's players like so to me,
(03:13):
to just give that much up first.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
In a second, is what you give up for, like quarterbacks.
Speaker 1 (03:18):
And stuff in this league or or Sauce Gardner or
Sauce Gardner, who's I mean, Quin Williams is a better
player at his position now than Sauce Gardner. Sauce Gardner's
on a year and a half slide. Yeah, that was
a bold thing that Indianapolis had.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, this is all about stopping the run because yes,
you know, I think he's near the end of the
league and pressures and stuff like he's not ever gonna
put pressure on a quarterback really, but if he stuffs
the run.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
I mean you I thought Kenny Clark was for that,
Like what, here's what I here's why I think about
it and why and look, you know, arguing or not arguing,
but talking about how much you gave up, that's all valid.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
I get all that.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Yeah, but we are on five consecutive years of the
Cowboys having nothing disruptive in the middle, and a lot
of times other players make plays because you have a
middle guy who is disruptive, and they got they settled.
They clearly wanted Williams and they settled for Kenny Clark.
The Jets couldn't do a deal with Micah, so they
(04:14):
were going to do this. They've eyeballed this guy, They've
targeted him, they wanted him, they weren't able to get him.
And so what it tells me, whether it's right or wrong,
as someone who kills the Cowboys a lot for seeming
to not have a plan, it's clear we have to
have this guy to build our defense out, and so
that's what they've put their chips on. They'll either be
(04:35):
right or they will be wrong. Now you really got
me thinking on the Kenny Clark thing of using all
three of those guys. I'm assuming Kenny Clark is gone.
Speaker 2 (04:44):
But yeah, he'll be gone.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
But the point being is that if they feel like
Quinn Williams will make that big of a difference, and
they have him and Osi in the middle and start
building out from there, they do still have some assets
to go get some players. They got to go get
the right players. But man, we're on a four to
five year rod on of them not having a guy
like this and killing their defense.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I just think there's what talk about the trade. You
have to talk about from two perspectives. One is Micah involved,
or we can just say Mike has happened. Move on, right,
take that that part out of it, which we'll agree
was terrible how they hand it. And that's hard for
me to do because quin Williams is a great player.
Micah Parsons. You don't get those guys.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
You won't get another guy like him, right, But that's
a separate thing.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And I know, I know that's like a go number
one in the draft type guy unless he's got some
warts and concerns, like you're not gonna You're gonna have
to have one of the top five picks in a
draft typically to get a guy like Michael.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
I mean, yeah, maybe.
Speaker 4 (05:36):
I mean it's it's weird to know Quinn Williams taking
what six or seven picks higher than Micah was, you know,
but like I just I think that defensive tackle, Okay,
that's good, Okay, go wreck a game.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Yeah, Aaron Donald could do that. Is Quin Williams that No,
he's not. He's very very good.
Speaker 4 (05:51):
He's not that like linebackers and safeties, not showing up
for the run fits doesn't help you there, Like what
if I.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I can't tell I can't tell you.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
But what if Osa has been really good this year
and we don't have a linebacker who can show up
to the gap on time?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
No, but like a play No. I agree with all that.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
And look, if they don't go do anything else to
fortify their defense, it's a disaster. But I'm saying they're
establishing this has been our biggest issue for half a decade.
We're addressing it.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
I hope.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
So, I hope it's a plan for a team that
never has a plan. I hope it's not just Jerry
winging it going ha ha. Did you see we went
out and got Quinn Williams. He used to be really good. Like,
I hope it's not. I hope it is the beginning
of something. But how could anyone have confidence that it is.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
There's a chance that if you add up the draft spots,
just the draft spots, what you gave up will be
you gave up more for Quinn Williams, then you got
back for Michael Parsons and in a vacuum Mike and
Parsons is ten times the player Quinn Williams.
Speaker 1 (06:45):
That makes it.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
I don't disagree with any of that, but I was
just Bill.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
I look at it as what are you going to
do moving forward?
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, you need to go if you're doing this, you
need to go all in the next two years after
this and that's it and you're cooked after that, complete gut.
It rebuilt after dak.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Man he is eighty two. Huh he is like eighty
two or something, So yeah, all right, there you have it.
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