July 1, 2025 • 6 mins
“Is Jay Leno the ultimate late-night villain—or just misunderstood?”In this fiery and laugh-out-loud episode of The Ben and Skin Show, hosts Ben Rogers, Jeff “Skin” Wade, Kevin “KT” Turner, and Krystina Ray dive headfirst into a beefy buffet of pop culture clashes, legendary TV feuds, and the absurdity of cancel culture. Dakota vs. Ellen: KT breaks down how one awkward birthday party moment helped unravel Ellen DeGeneres’ empire. “You did get invited,” Dakota said—and the internet never forgot.Conan vs. Leno: The Legacy War: The gang passionately revisits the late-night shakeup that birthed Team Coco. Skin recounts Conan’s legendary stand against NBC with insider-level detail, while Ben declares, “Jay Leno sucks,” with the kind of conviction that only comes from years of comedic betrayal.Cancel Culture Fatigue: The crew calls out comedians who’ve turned “being canceled” into a brand. “Quit being a bitch. Do your work,” Skin says, summing up the exhaustion with brutal honesty.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Irish beef stew. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Skin freaking million? I'm gonna ask you a ton of
down for a second, because I said I was getting angry,
but now you're getting a little heated.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Beef brisk it, get off a roast beef. Now I
go home and still watch more. No, you know after
three hours?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Yes, I know.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
No, you don't tell me what I do and what
I don't. Oh, don't tell me. I watched the damn
game long Gooli and beef.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Why are you arguing with me on about this cod
You make it a freaking parable pup about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Do you see where I'm going with this beef? Why's
the beef? It's what's freezing?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
So you see where you're going with Sam Elliott the
Ringer Top forty beefs Oh I predict one?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Sam Elliott and gay Cowboy? Yes, I hope so yes.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Of the last twenty five years, going back to two thousand,
here we get to thirty yesterday, and we'll probably just
kind of work it through the end of the week.
Here thirty takes us to Dakota Johnson and Ellen Degenerous.
Dakota Johnson was a key cog and getting Ellen degenerous canceled. Now,
a lot of what happened with Ellen does not have
to do with this specific event. But when Ellen was
(01:03):
getting canceled or pushed out or whatever was happening, because
you were leading that charge, I was part of it
for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
But this clip kept reservicing.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
And it's a clip where Dakota Johnson is like, why
didn't you go to my birthday party her show?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And Ellen's like.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I didn't get invited, and because I was like, yeah,
you did get invited. And then photos come out later
that Ellen was hanging out with President George W. Bush
and things like that. Oh, it was just like a
perfect storm for someone. Now, I think she truly got
canceled because she was making her producer sit out in
her front in the backyard during COVID.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
That bothered me so much.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
We'd come in into the show and Ellen's on TV
behind us for whatever reason, and her producer guy is
sitting out in the rainforest, which is her backyard.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I didn't like that. It was COVID. They were doing
a bit.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Everyone knows though that she is. I mean, it was
like there was no one defending her. It's like, yeah,
she's kind of mean to her staff and mean to
her people.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Then she did a big stand.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Up thing on Netflix and she is like, uh, they
kicked me out of Hollywood. And I'm like, you have
a stand up special on Netflix right now. You've nothing
kicked out of Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
That's the worst development of the last ten years is
comedians using the crutch of canceling.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It's just exhausting.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Quit being a bitch, do your work, and I mean,
I hate all that. Like half of those guys and gals,
their content then became that they were being canceled, like
you're the one, and it was I believe I think
it was Bill Burr that was coming out going. Everybody
stopped talking about canceling, like, just stop it. It's not
it's you're keeping it alive by talking.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
About no doubt. I'm twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Con O'Brien versus Jay Leno higher, make this higher?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I agree, this is huge.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I recently watched you know how sometimes they'll just on YouTube,
they'll make recommendation clips to your ig or whatever. I
rewatched Conan going on David Letterman right after he took
his job with TNT. I think that's where he went next.
TVs sorry, And I mean he was on for two
segments and I ended up watching like all twenty eight
(03:04):
minutes of it. It was so good because Dave hates
j Leno, No, he does, and he is just he
is like just cackling, like loving every.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Second of it.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, he did a Law and Order Leno Victims Unit thing.
He did a whole bit on that, like just a
wild In twosand and three, NBC went and I'm reading
about this, and I was reading a book about Loauren
Michaels doesn't Three NBC went to Conan and said, in
five years, they signed a contract. In five years, you
will get it. In two thousand and nine, you will
(03:33):
get the Tonight show. And Jay had apparently agreed to it,
and then Jay didn't want to go.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So like, okay, we'll create a spot. I'm gonna use
Central Time here.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So they put Jay on at nine o'clock and Jay
Leno and then the local news is like the two terrible.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Lead ends for Conan.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, but the Jay Leno show, the Jay Leno Show
was failing, miserable to it, and that he was doing horrible.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, So NBC comes back to Conan. They give him
to the Tonight Show, and they gave it a very
minimal amount of time, in fact, eight months.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
But within h kind of is because within six months
they're like, Okay, we're gonna move you to it would
be eleven here, and we're gonna let Jay do ten
thirty to eleven and have the Tonight Show back, and
he'll have and Conan goes to his hitt and Conan's pissed.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So Jay was just gonna do a thirty minute show.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So Conan has his with that.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
He had a bunch of lawyers over and they're in
a bunker and he can't get in touch with Louren.
Louren had gotten his back, but Conan did one thing
on his show that made Lorn mad, and Lorne just
goes quiet for a while because he's kind of a jerk.
So Conan has his wife typing a statement out and
Conan's walking around a room and he starts spitting out
(04:48):
these words and instead of saying it to NBC, it'
said two people on Earth, okay. And the statement is like,
the Tonight Show is not the Tonight Show at eleven o'clock.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It's always been ten thirty. It's an institution.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
It needs to continue and it needs to be done
right and it can't be done this way. So basically
he created in that statement that he put out, he
created this Team Coco movement, which was awesome and it
made everyone hate Jay Leno even more. And I would say,
even though he's not doing that job, I do think
Conan won. Like in the legacy of things, no one
(05:22):
thinks highly of Jay Leno for any of this. NBC's
guys in charge were threatening Conan with all kinds of bs,
you won't do TV for three and a half years,
which never, you know, materialized, But it was like that
was a big deal. And I had a friend who
I didn't know where it was a friend of a friend,
but I talked to him a few times who was
living in Chicago at the time, but her dad worked
(05:44):
on Conan at the time. During all this, Wow, if
I'm going to class at un T on these radio
and TV film classes and just talking about this with people,
feeling like I had inside infel when I realized here,
I didn't because it was all kind of out there.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
But yeah, jay Leno sucks.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Jo does so around the Beef and the series continues.
Coming up next we go around the sports, though, we
leave the beef and go to the sports. Are the
MAVs a top six team in the West.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
We're gonna talk about it. Just over three minutes. Don't
go anywhere. That's next
Irish beef stew. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Skin freaking million? I'm gonna ask you a ton of
down for a second, because I said I was getting angry,
but now you're getting a little heated.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Beef brisk it, get off a roast beef. Now I
go home and still watch more. No, you know after
three hours?
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Yes, I know.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
No, you don't tell me what I do and what
I don't. Oh, don't tell me. I watched the damn
game long Gooli and beef.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Why are you arguing with me on about this cod
You make it a freaking parable pup about this stuff.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Do you see where I'm going with this beef? Why's
the beef? It's what's freezing?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
So you see where you're going with Sam Elliott the
Ringer Top forty beefs Oh I predict one?
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Sam Elliott and gay Cowboy? Yes, I hope so yes.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Of the last twenty five years, going back to two thousand,
here we get to thirty yesterday, and we'll probably just
kind of work it through the end of the week.
Here thirty takes us to Dakota Johnson and Ellen Degenerous.
Dakota Johnson was a key cog and getting Ellen degenerous canceled. Now,
a lot of what happened with Ellen does not have
to do with this specific event. But when Ellen was
(01:03):
getting canceled or pushed out or whatever was happening, because
you were leading that charge, I was part of it
for sure.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
But this clip kept reservicing.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
And it's a clip where Dakota Johnson is like, why
didn't you go to my birthday party her show?
Speaker 1 (01:17):
And Ellen's like.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
I didn't get invited, and because I was like, yeah,
you did get invited. And then photos come out later
that Ellen was hanging out with President George W. Bush
and things like that. Oh, it was just like a
perfect storm for someone. Now, I think she truly got
canceled because she was making her producer sit out in
her front in the backyard during COVID.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
That bothered me so much.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
We'd come in into the show and Ellen's on TV
behind us for whatever reason, and her producer guy is
sitting out in the rainforest, which is her backyard.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
I didn't like that. It was COVID. They were doing
a bit.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Everyone knows though that she is. I mean, it was
like there was no one defending her. It's like, yeah,
she's kind of mean to her staff and mean to
her people.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
Then she did a big stand.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Up thing on Netflix and she is like, uh, they
kicked me out of Hollywood. And I'm like, you have
a stand up special on Netflix right now. You've nothing
kicked out of Hollywood.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
That's the worst development of the last ten years is
comedians using the crutch of canceling.
Speaker 1 (02:15):
It's just exhausting.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Quit being a bitch, do your work, and I mean,
I hate all that. Like half of those guys and gals,
their content then became that they were being canceled, like
you're the one, and it was I believe I think
it was Bill Burr that was coming out going. Everybody
stopped talking about canceling, like, just stop it. It's not
it's you're keeping it alive by talking.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
About no doubt. I'm twenty nine.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Con O'Brien versus Jay Leno higher, make this higher?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I agree, this is huge.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I recently watched you know how sometimes they'll just on YouTube,
they'll make recommendation clips to your ig or whatever. I
rewatched Conan going on David Letterman right after he took
his job with TNT. I think that's where he went next.
TVs sorry, And I mean he was on for two
segments and I ended up watching like all twenty eight
(03:04):
minutes of it. It was so good because Dave hates
j Leno, No, he does, and he is just he
is like just cackling, like loving every.
Speaker 1 (03:13):
Second of it.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Yeah, he did a Law and Order Leno Victims Unit thing.
He did a whole bit on that, like just a
wild In twosand and three, NBC went and I'm reading
about this, and I was reading a book about Loauren
Michaels doesn't Three NBC went to Conan and said, in
five years, they signed a contract. In five years, you
will get it. In two thousand and nine, you will
(03:33):
get the Tonight show. And Jay had apparently agreed to it,
and then Jay didn't want to go.
Speaker 1 (03:40):
So like, okay, we'll create a spot. I'm gonna use
Central Time here.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
So they put Jay on at nine o'clock and Jay
Leno and then the local news is like the two terrible.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
Lead ends for Conan.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, but the Jay Leno show, the Jay Leno Show
was failing, miserable to it, and that he was doing horrible.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Yeah, So NBC comes back to Conan. They give him
to the Tonight Show, and they gave it a very
minimal amount of time, in fact, eight months.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (04:07):
But within h kind of is because within six months
they're like, Okay, we're gonna move you to it would
be eleven here, and we're gonna let Jay do ten
thirty to eleven and have the Tonight Show back, and
he'll have and Conan goes to his hitt and Conan's pissed.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
So Jay was just gonna do a thirty minute show.
Speaker 1 (04:25):
So Conan has his with that.
Speaker 3 (04:28):
He had a bunch of lawyers over and they're in
a bunker and he can't get in touch with Louren.
Louren had gotten his back, but Conan did one thing
on his show that made Lorn mad, and Lorne just
goes quiet for a while because he's kind of a jerk.
So Conan has his wife typing a statement out and
Conan's walking around a room and he starts spitting out
(04:48):
these words and instead of saying it to NBC, it'
said two people on Earth, okay. And the statement is like,
the Tonight Show is not the Tonight Show at eleven o'clock.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
It's always been ten thirty. It's an institution.
Speaker 3 (05:01):
It needs to continue and it needs to be done
right and it can't be done this way. So basically
he created in that statement that he put out, he
created this Team Coco movement, which was awesome and it
made everyone hate Jay Leno even more. And I would say,
even though he's not doing that job, I do think
Conan won. Like in the legacy of things, no one
(05:22):
thinks highly of Jay Leno for any of this. NBC's
guys in charge were threatening Conan with all kinds of bs,
you won't do TV for three and a half years,
which never, you know, materialized, But it was like that
was a big deal. And I had a friend who
I didn't know where it was a friend of a friend,
but I talked to him a few times who was
living in Chicago at the time, but her dad worked
(05:44):
on Conan at the time. During all this, Wow, if
I'm going to class at un T on these radio
and TV film classes and just talking about this with people,
feeling like I had inside infel when I realized here,
I didn't because it was all kind of out there.
Speaker 1 (05:56):
But yeah, jay Leno sucks.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Jo does so around the Beef and the series continues.
Coming up next we go around the sports, though, we
leave the beef and go to the sports. Are the
MAVs a top six team in the West.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
We're gonna talk about it. Just over three minutes. Don't
go anywhere. That's next
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