Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you need wisdom and advice.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Seek out a guru.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
When you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now to Nick the Construction Guru.
Here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
News Talk eleven thirty w I is in Good Morning Wisconsin,
Nick the construction Guru Here today I have I have
a good friend, actually absolutely and returning guests. I have
Chris Hagner from Chris Agner Design. Chris, the reason I
wanted to bring you in this this week is because
not so long ago, you and I one Remodeler.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Of the Year. Yep, we won an award and.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
We won an award Remodeler of the Year for a
kitchen we did on North Avenue. Actually it's in the
neighborhood that's kind of a Renaissance neighborhood, older Victorian homes.
And so I wanted to talk today about number one,
the importance of a good design and why that's why
that's so important, because that's one of the things that
I see, especially a lot of new remodelers kind of
(01:03):
skipping through right that's really where you have to spend
the time so let's talk a little bit about what
are some of the aspects of design that you think
are most important that we talk about before we ever
start nailing or.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
You know, first I'll say that, you know, good design
has been around since the beginning of time. I think
what's changed is being able to help clients visualize good design.
You know, in the past, a great design or a
bad design, you really never really knew if it was
a good design or a bad design till the project
(01:37):
was finished.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, yeah, because you're looking at a flat plane and drawings.
Absolutely so there's a tremendous leap of faith from the
person who's paying.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
For you know, that's the painful mistakes that every you know,
you hear the horror stories about I didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
We've seen, we've seen, we've fased on that exactly.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
But you know, I didn't realize it was going to
look like that, or I didn't realize this was going
to be so close to this. I didn't realize you know,
what have you. But in today's world, the companies like
yours that are using true three D design, and by
that i'm when I say true, I mean not the
cartoon stuff you see that you know, the thirty.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Dollars photograph quality rending, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
But with that three D design, now we're able to
literally put a client inside, whether it's a kitchen, whether
it's a full edition outside, you know, put them anywhere,
look at it from any angle, look at finishes, look
at colors, look at put furniture real. You know, if
they've got certain furniture that's a certain size, we can
(02:39):
put that exact size furniture into the space to show
them here's how it's going to work exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And that not only gives them the perspective of the
real feeling of the room, in other words, the size
and traffic patterns room, but it also helps you design
the next step, which is really furnishing and artwork and
things like that. So you know where I've had people say, hey,
I have this picture that I want to put on
the wall, and so we make sure that the walls
that size for that picture exactly.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
That Sometimes it can come down to, you know, as
simple as if this window was six inches that way,
it would have worked, but it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
We didn't think about it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
And now what Yeah, I think it's the same thing
on the exterior too. You know, one of the guys
that you and I just talked to the other day,
he has it's a gorgeous house in where's it Delafield?
It's Heartland, but anyway, I mean it's it's a multimillion
dollar home. And they had a room put on the
back and it's an open air room, which is great,
(03:35):
would have looked great on the plans, but as far
as function, it sucks because it's it's a wind tunnel,
like he said, and he said, I can use this like,
so we're going to enclose that room. But again, that's
a design that you look at on picture and you say, hey,
this is great, but then in function.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Not really exactly exactly. You know.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
One of the other things that I think is important
to mention that any kind of remodeling today is extremely expensive.
I don't I don't care what you're doing. Countertops, you're
you're in the semi thousands there, right for good countertops,
stuff like that. So mistakes get real expensive, exactly, they
get real expensive. And when you're spending that kind of
money or or for many people going into that for
(04:15):
a number of years to do a project, you don't
want to have regrets.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Well, and you know, think of that regret every morning
when you get up to make a cup of coffee
and look at that regret before you go to work.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
And you know, one of the one of the challenges
that I see working with with so many other people
is that so many remodelers today are so quick. They
want to get to the close of the deal. They
want to close the deal, close the deal, close the deal.
And that's not that's not first and foremost with us.
What we want to make sure is that we're on
the same sheet of music many times, as you know,
(04:48):
and sometimes clients get frustrated that it takes so long
from the time we originally signed a design agreement to
get through the design.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
But you know what that's that's.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Until they get into it, you know, and that you're
exactly you know, someone gets excited. They've probably been thinking
about doing this project whatever it is, for five years,
maybe longer, and now it's time. Well, now it's time,
and you know.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
It's like it's time, let's go.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
You know, I just want you to look at it,
tell me how much and start and it's.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Like, wait, let's slow down.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
But once we get into that, you know, the the
if you talked about that close. You know, I guess
there are still guys out there doing it. You know
those days are gone. This isn't you know. Let's let's
get husband and wife at a kitchen table for three hours,
and if you buy it right now, I'll give you
a discount. You know what this isn't. We're here to inform,
(05:39):
We're here to guide. We're here to counsel so that
you get what you're looking for. We can give you
ideas of if you did this, it might reduce the cost,
if you did this, it might do this, what have you.
But once we get into that design, it's very interactive
with the homeowner. I mean, we're you know it's here.
Here's a first draft. I love this, I don't like this.
(06:02):
What if we did this? Great, Let's explore all the
options in this three D world and spend a little
money doing that, versus let's go build it and decide
I don't like this, rip it out and let's do
it again.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
That's a lot more expensive.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
It's a lot easier to move the mouse than it
is to get out the saws all, let's face it,
and it's a lot less expensive. So you know the
mistakes you know, in the old days, and I know
a lot of guys that do business like this, they
would draw something on a legal pad or an hour napkin, right,
And you know, we say napkin, but I've seen it
happen where they're sitting at the table and he well,
here's what we're thinking.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
The homeowner comes home and.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
They go, oh, I really don't I've thought that wall
was going to be cool, but I really don't like
it right there. Well, now let's take it out and
start over. Right in three D design, you can you
can see what it's going to look, wait like to
eliminate that wall.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Or see potential problems. And you know a lot of
times again you said in the past, we were working
on these two D plans. Well, unless your brain is
working in three D, you get there and all of
a sudden, go oh, I didn't realize this thing above
us was going to be in the way, or this
thing below us was going to be in the way.
You know, in three D it's you know, this doesn't
(07:10):
work or this does work absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
And you know, the other thing that I think the
three D renderings do is to show the relationship of
the other rooms because many times when you get engaged
in a remodeling project, and you know, we just recently
did a mid century modern house in Brookfield, and one
of the things was with the first renderings that we did,
the cabinets weren't to He didn't want that I wanted.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
He wanted it this way.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And I think that's awesome because when you just go
into a cabinet shop and you look at a cabinet
and go, yeah, it's a nice cabinet, what is it
going to look like in my house?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Exactly?
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Doesn't really work with everything else in the house and
what have you, and you know, and then like everything else,
you know, the quality of the design, the work, the accuracy,
you know, and when you and I are doing a design,
you know, I could be spending five, six, seven, eight
hours measuring an existing house before I even draw it.
(07:58):
But that that that what we call as built three
D model in the computer. It's exact. I mean, it's
that that is exactly the dimensions we're not. This isn't close,
and you know, the carpenters will figure out how to
make that fit or maybe it won't fit. And now
there's a six weeks delay because we had to order
(08:18):
a cabinet that was three inches smaller because that that
that was a close measurement.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
This is it. That's it.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
I mean, it works in the computer, it will work
in real life.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
It's it's you bring up a very a very salient point.
I think the thing is with when you're designing and
you have a good design and the carpenters can put it,
it's really like an instruction manual. They can open it
up and go cabinet four or five goes here, kebint
four O six goes here, and the project doesn't get delayed,
it goes faster.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
And that's that's the other thing you know that it's
really want to come down to it, this is all
about communication and how we communicate. We're communicating to the
client much better as to here's what it's going to
look like and here's what they're looking, but also to
the trades people, the carpenters whatever. Now you know, they're
not only getting a two dimensional plan with dimensions on
it that says, as you know, cabin and A goes here,
(09:10):
and cabin and goes b. They're getting a three D
rendering of what that bank of cabinet should look like together,
which is a really good reference of you know, in
the past, the carpenter swinging the hammer really never met
the homeowner during the design phase and maybe doesn't have
a clear vision of what they were thinking. Now they're
(09:32):
looking exactly at what this needs to turn out to
do well, and.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
They're following that.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
You know, they can follow the progression too when they
come home at night and they look at, Okay, now
the wall's roughed in, or now the pantry cabinet's in place. Yep,
they can hold up their rendering and say, yep, that's correct,
And I think that's that's great for peace of mind.
And many times I'll have people look at something in question,
you know, case in point, the one we just won
the award on there was a chimney chase there that
(09:57):
was abandoned yep, And they said, hey, you know what,
cold is there some way we could utilize that space?
And there's a bookshelf in there now with cookboards and
which is great. You know, every inch it was lost space.
And that's the other thing, the efficiency of a bathroom
or a kitchen, you know, storage space. How if you're
(10:17):
the triangle is the old one, you know, the old
NKBA thing is make sure you have the triangle, but
you know it does. It makes for almost a symphonic
approach to cooking because it's everything's like yep.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Yeah, we're you know, we're always looking for aesthetics and
is this look right? But it's also function and that's
you know, going back to what we talked about, is
you know, we can lay in the proper furniture, we
can lay in you know, how far is the island
away from the counter, the or the range or what
have you. Those are all you know, things that in
the three D world we nail down exactly before anybody
(10:49):
swings a hammer.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Well, and on that particular kitchen, one of the things
that I think the other thing the three three D
renderings really helped with is we have white cabinets in there,
but the island is a bright and that bright blue
grabs some of the And if you would say that
to somebody like you're doing right now, you're kind of
laughing and you go like really, but when you see
it and then you see it in there was some
stained glass in the door that had that blue in
(11:12):
that we drew off of that, right, the same color pattern,
and it really made the whole thing come together. And
I'm not sure they would have made that choice had
they have not seen it in the rendering.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
I did a design for a project and they were
very into skiing and wanted to kind of ski shelley
look and wood sided stained house whatever, and I proposed
red exterior windows. Again, you say it out loud and
are you out of your mind? It's done and it's
beautiful and they love it well.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
And you know, some of these, some of these photographs
I peruse through marketplace on Facebook, and every now and
then they'll throw up these old mansions and things that
have been revamped, or or houses that were very plain
ranch houses that they redo. When you see it in
a three D rendering, that's when people really start to
get excited, exactly, and they start to collaborate too. That's
(12:04):
the other thing I love about And I always say
this to new clients. I always say, the end result
is going to be a collaboration between you and your designer, right,
because you're gonna look at stuff and you go, that sucks.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I don't like that, but I like this, I like this, right?
Or what if?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
The what IF's come up to during you know, It
stimulates thought and at the meetings, people get excited because
they can start to see what's doing. What happens if
I put these conor tops on it, Well, let's see here,
let's take this and put them on.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
That's very simple. And that's and you're exactly right. It's
that collaborate. They get involved in the process and at
the end of the day, you know it's their home.
They're gonna instead of them being apprehensive about it, am
I gonna like this? You're gonna help us design what
you want. We're just here to guide you, make sure
it's done right and give you ideas, suggestions, things you
(12:51):
might not have thought of because we're the pros at it,
you know.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Chris, We're gonna take a short break, but when we
come back, let's talk about what some of the dangers
are of rushing design. What are some of the dangers
of Obviously there's many companies out there that don't even
have designs and just I you know, winging it. Let's
let's talk about that after the break. Fair enough, all right,
News News Talk eleven thirty w I S. And we
will return after these messages. News Talk eleven thirty w
(13:21):
I S. If you're thinking about a remodeling project, I
always say you should get two or three opinions. Make
one of those hours. We'd love to come out and
talk to you about a kitchen, a bathroom, a rec room,
exterior project edition. You can reach us on the worldwide
web at Kurznerinc. Dot com that's k E r Z
n E r I n C dot com, or give
us a call at two six two five six seven
twenty five hundred. At Kerzner. We will treat your home
(13:42):
as if it were our own. If you're just tuning in,
I have I have a returning guest, good friend of mine.
We've been working at concert together for a number of
years with award winning design now Chris Agner from Chris
Agner Design a fixture at NARY. Chris is probably one
of the few people I can honestly say who's been
around Neary longer.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Than I have.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Probably you've been president, Yeah, you've been president of the
local chapter, you've been president of the national chapter. You're
still very active in NARY. And I always say I
don't have to talk about on the on the radio
in Wisconsin because I think everybody knows Nary. You know,
as evidenced by the show exactly. You know, there's a
(14:21):
ton of people. I can't believe the traffic at the show, right,
you know, And.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
It's great, and you know, we're we're fortunate in this
area to have the level of engagement that we have
with nary members in that shows. As the national president,
I am in other states. I talk to other what
we call chapters in other states, and there are some
shows across the country nothing like what we have here.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Nothing, I mean.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
These shows and other places are held at you know,
the conference room at a hotel or the church, yeah
have you, And I mean the show we have here
is one of the largest and longest running home improvement
remodeling shows in the country. And it's great for the
consumer to be able to go one place and see everything,
(15:08):
talk to people they want to possibly have work on
their homes, and get really comfortable with that relationship.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
And you know, the keyword is relationship. When you when
you invite I always say, you invite a remodel ear
into your house. You know, he's going to have access
to your computers, he's going to have access to your
file cabinets, he's going to have access to your wife'
launder age or let's face.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It, it's true.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I mean, you have to what I'm getting to is,
and I say this at all my seminars, you have
to trust the person that's going to be working in
your house. What better way to establish who you who
the good people are, and honestly, who you don't want
to talk to. They're going to a show and having
conversations with the I mean, the owners are down there,
and that's the another thing I love about NARY shows
is that the lion's share of the contractors down there,
(15:50):
the owners are into booth. It's not some person that
they've hired or some pr person, it's the owners. So
you get to talk to to NARY members about what
their project is, see if your personalities fit, see if
your communication style fits, and is this going to work
out right? Exactly because it's a tremendous amount of time,
it's a tremendous amount of trust, and it's a tremendous
amount of money. I mean, the average what's the average
(16:12):
kitchen today?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
How much you know, if you had to say one
hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
One hundred thousands, right, what's a bathroom? Right? Fifty to start, Yeah,
fifty to start.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And you know, HGTV as much as I enjoy watching
you know, the cooking shows and that, which I don't
I'm kidding.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I walk in on my wife watching them.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
But you know, I see these people doing these kitchens
and they go, oh, we spent the whopping twenty five
You know what, twenty five thousand ain't getting your cabinets right.
You're not getting cabinets for that. So my point is this,
it is an extremely expensive proposition to do remodeling, additions,
anything like that. So you want to make sure that
the people you get are going to be looking out
(16:51):
for your best interests. And that's where you know, we
can kind of dovetail that all together now and say
that's where good design comes in.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
That's the first part. Now.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
When we left or Break, I said, there's many companies
out there, Chris that don't even really design. They just
kind of do.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I don't. Is it wing it? How would you? How
would you? I mean?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
I think there's you know, there's levels from nothing to
what we do and everything in between. And you know,
it's whatever works for whatever project. And you know, if
it's if it's you know, I'm going to put in
a wider door. I'm going to put in a new
front door. You know, maybe a very simple thing is
all that's necessary. But when you start talking about you know,
fifty thousand in up bathrooms, one hundred thousand and up kitchens,
(17:33):
you know, two hundred and fifty thousand and up editions,
you know those kind of numbers. You know it. You
cannot afford to make a mistake. This isn't, you know,
this isn't We went out to dinner, had a bad Hamburger,
and we'll go somewhere else tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And get a good one. This is y.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
We bought a bad kitchen, and for the next twenty
years we're going to you know, be upset that we
have a very bad kitchen.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Well, and design is so subjective, so I think, you
know what what what I love about our process, although
it does it does take some time to get to
the to the actual where when we're going to pull
the trigger, right, it takes some time, but the homeowners
are involved in that whole that whole proposition, right everything.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I was just going to say, it's fun to see
the excitement, you know, as we talked about earlier, you know,
I'm ready to go, let's go. Come on, Nick, give
me a price. Let's let's go. When when of the
guys going to be there, Let's go, you know. But
but we get into that first, you know, showing them
that first draft, the first version that we're going to
start now talking about revising and stuff, and all of
(18:31):
a sudden, you know, you can just see them go, oh,
this is cool, and I want to what if we
did this? And now now they're engaged, you know, and
now all of a sudden, you know, for the next
three days, you know, they're emailing us. I saw this
picture with this worker, I saw this picture with this work.
What do you think about this? And that's awesome because
now when we finally get to well, and when we
finally get to the end, it's not what you and
(18:55):
I designed, it's what you and I and they designed,
and you know there it's they they, you know. And
now when they're sitting at the island with their friends
having a glass of wine and talking about, yeah, we
we decided to do this, and then we did this,
it's it's awesome to see that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Well.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And you know the other thing is is that you
have somebody has your back, so you know, a lot
of people understand kind of what they want. They want
an island over here, this or that. But the other
thing design does is it puts all the outlets into
the code. It does the engineering for removing walls, you know,
like the one we just worked at at the camp
that there's a there's literally a wall coming out of
the center of the house and we had a column
(19:30):
in there. What we had engineering done and now we
can remove that column so it doesn't have to go
through the countertop and things like that. So it's nice
because they can come up with their dreams and we
can tell them, Okay, this is what's what's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Yeah, And that's where you know, you and I have
been doing this a very long time, and that's where
that expertise of being able to look at something and go, okay,
this is going to require this. And you know the
other part of that is that the surprise of the
change order in the middle of rough framing, where the
the carpenter calls you and when I say you, I
(20:04):
don't mean you, but the boss or the sales guy
who calls the client says, we didn't realize this was
a load bearing wall, and you know, mister and missus Jones,
we need another you know, twelve five hundred dollars to
put you know, an engineered.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Being here by the way, your whole kitchens in the
dumpster right now.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Right and what do you say?
Speaker 4 (20:23):
No, no, I'll pass right, So you know, but that's
what good design. First of all, we're going to identify
that in this process because we're not winging it.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
We're not.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
You know, here's a picture of two kitchens we did
three years ago. They're close to what you're doing. Sign
here and we'll get started. This is we've walked gone
through every inch of that whatever that part of that
house or structure, and we know that's load bearing or
that's not, or that's going to require this, and we
get that all captured in the design phase up front,
(20:54):
so that you know, there's always the possibility for a
change order when we open something up. We still don't
have X ray vision. I'm I'm guessing it's coming in
the next iPhone.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
But you know whatever, I always say, if I could
see through walls and would be doing an acting us.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
That might be coming sooner than we think.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
But right now, you know, so there's that possibility open
something up and find some damage or rod or what
have you. But it isn't the well we didn't realize, well,
you're a professional. You should have realized.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Right, well, and you know, case in point, I think
one of the other things. And again I'm not trying
to bad mouth any any of the competitors, but the
truth of the matter is is that both you and
I know the importance of certifications, know the importance of
being master certified remodelers, continuing education. I mean, really, there's
no there is no school for remodeling contractors, right, you
(21:44):
learn it on the fly. So certified remodelers through through nary.
I have to tell you. They say that the securities
license is the hardest license to get for investments, right.
The second is a broker's license in real estate. And
I have a broker's license, and I'm here to tell
you it was a pretty rough tests. There's a lot
of memory stuff, there's a lot of meats and bounds.
You got to know all these different different terms and things.
(22:08):
I've been in the remodeling business my whole life, and
when I took the certified Remodeler test, I was sitting
there with Dean Harrigu's past president, and he had been
in the remodeling business forever, and literally I.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Looked over at him.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
We were both sweating at that test because, you know what,
there was a lot of information there. And I'm going
to just say it. I've been in the business my
whole life. I didn't know there was information I didn't know.
And so, you know, when you're doing designs and things
like that and people are worried, they say, well, you know,
our budget is one hundred thousand, but if worst came
the worst, we could go one hundred and ten.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
That's it. You don't have any more money, so you
better make damn sure.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
I maximize that budget and do it, you know, right right,
and help the homeowner get the most they can for
that money.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So, I mean from a professionalism standpoint, there are there
are people who are better at this than others, and
that's those are the certified.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Remodelers anything else.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, and I think that, you know, I think people
are coming around now, but in the past it was
always I'm gonna get three estimates to take the cheapest one. Okay,
well guess what, there's a reason why they're the cheap Well,
sometimes there's a reason why they're the cheapest. Either they
don't know what they're doing, or they're going to get
even with you on change orders halfway through the project.
And we've seen that happen as well, so, you know,
a good design. Another thing that you know, Matt who
(23:21):
is another guy that we're working with that we did
just did his kitchen. Now we're going to be doing
his bathrooms, in his in his rec room. You know,
he he has looked at the plans several times and
gone over them. So we're on like our fourth or
fifth revision of the plans because he's able to go
through and look at things. And that's another thing, right,
I mean, homeowners get the plans in their hands, they
(23:42):
can spend some time with it exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
You know, not only are we looking at things, you know,
in the three D world on a computer screen, but
then we're creating presentation sets so that they have you know,
we still have the two dimensional floor plans with dimensions
and all those things to scale and the three D
view and elevations and what have you, but you know,
creating those layouts of that so they can take a
(24:06):
weekend or take a week and really study that and
walk around their house and go, oh, I see where
this is, or and and and then get back to
us and go, you know what if we did that?
I was looking at my house and I see what
we're doing here? What if we added that little hall
area next to it?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And did you know?
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Those are all things that just don't come to light
without the ability to look at this stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Or like David Laquisha said, what if what if we
put a little bookshelf in where that should used to be?
You know that cool little details that make the big differences.
I think the other thing is, you know, with design,
it carries you through the project. You're able to go
through the entire project before and nail is driven. And
that's so important.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
People.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
We've got a couple of minutes left. Chris, give out
your information because you do designs.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Yeah, it's Chris Eigner Design. I do three D modeling,
three D renderings. Whether it's as simple as we want
to see what the outside of our house looks like
with different color siding and some trim to you know,
the big projects I do for you and many others,
custom home designs, what have you. You can reach me
at two six two seven nine seven eight eight one
(25:13):
eight or just google Chris Egner design cool.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And if you're thinking about a project, you can get
a hold of Kursoner at again Cursonerinc dot com. That's
k e r z n e r i n C
dot com. Or give us a call at two six
two five six seven twenty five hundred. Hey Chris, thanks
for coming in on. Say thank you. All right, all right,
News Talk eleven thirty w I s N. We will
return again next week
When you need wisdom and advice.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Seek out a guru.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
When you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now to Nick the Construction Guru.
Here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
News Talk eleven thirty w I is in Good Morning Wisconsin,
Nick the construction Guru Here today I have I have
a good friend, actually absolutely and returning guests. I have
Chris Hagner from Chris Agner Design. Chris, the reason I
wanted to bring you in this this week is because
not so long ago, you and I one Remodeler.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Of the Year. Yep, we won an award and.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
We won an award Remodeler of the Year for a
kitchen we did on North Avenue. Actually it's in the
neighborhood that's kind of a Renaissance neighborhood, older Victorian homes.
And so I wanted to talk today about number one,
the importance of a good design and why that's why
that's so important, because that's one of the things that
I see, especially a lot of new remodelers kind of
(01:03):
skipping through right that's really where you have to spend
the time so let's talk a little bit about what
are some of the aspects of design that you think
are most important that we talk about before we ever
start nailing or.
Speaker 4 (01:16):
You know, first I'll say that, you know, good design
has been around since the beginning of time. I think
what's changed is being able to help clients visualize good design.
You know, in the past, a great design or a
bad design, you really never really knew if it was
a good design or a bad design till the project
(01:37):
was finished.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Well, yeah, because you're looking at a flat plane and drawings.
Absolutely so there's a tremendous leap of faith from the
person who's paying.
Speaker 4 (01:46):
For you know, that's the painful mistakes that every you know,
you hear the horror stories about I didn't realize.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
We've seen, we've seen, we've fased on that exactly.
Speaker 4 (01:54):
But you know, I didn't realize it was going to
look like that, or I didn't realize this was going
to be so close to this. I didn't realize you know,
what have you. But in today's world, the companies like
yours that are using true three D design, and by
that i'm when I say true, I mean not the
cartoon stuff you see that you know, the thirty.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Dollars photograph quality rending, right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
But with that three D design, now we're able to
literally put a client inside, whether it's a kitchen, whether
it's a full edition outside, you know, put them anywhere,
look at it from any angle, look at finishes, look
at colors, look at put furniture real. You know, if
they've got certain furniture that's a certain size, we can
(02:39):
put that exact size furniture into the space to show
them here's how it's going to work exactly.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
And that not only gives them the perspective of the
real feeling of the room, in other words, the size
and traffic patterns room, but it also helps you design
the next step, which is really furnishing and artwork and
things like that. So you know where I've had people say, hey,
I have this picture that I want to put on
the wall, and so we make sure that the walls
that size for that picture exactly.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
That Sometimes it can come down to, you know, as
simple as if this window was six inches that way,
it would have worked, but it doesn't work.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
We didn't think about it.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
And now what Yeah, I think it's the same thing
on the exterior too. You know, one of the guys
that you and I just talked to the other day,
he has it's a gorgeous house in where's it Delafield?
It's Heartland, but anyway, I mean it's it's a multimillion
dollar home. And they had a room put on the
back and it's an open air room, which is great,
(03:35):
would have looked great on the plans, but as far
as function, it sucks because it's it's a wind tunnel,
like he said, and he said, I can use this like,
so we're going to enclose that room. But again, that's
a design that you look at on picture and you say, hey,
this is great, but then in function.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Not really exactly exactly. You know.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
One of the other things that I think is important
to mention that any kind of remodeling today is extremely expensive.
I don't I don't care what you're doing. Countertops, you're
you're in the semi thousands there, right for good countertops,
stuff like that. So mistakes get real expensive, exactly, they
get real expensive. And when you're spending that kind of
money or or for many people going into that for
(04:15):
a number of years to do a project, you don't
want to have regrets.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
Well, and you know, think of that regret every morning
when you get up to make a cup of coffee
and look at that regret before you go to work.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
And you know, one of the one of the challenges
that I see working with with so many other people
is that so many remodelers today are so quick. They
want to get to the close of the deal. They
want to close the deal, close the deal, close the deal.
And that's not that's not first and foremost with us.
What we want to make sure is that we're on
the same sheet of music many times, as you know,
(04:48):
and sometimes clients get frustrated that it takes so long
from the time we originally signed a design agreement to
get through the design.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
But you know what that's that's.
Speaker 4 (04:58):
Until they get into it, you know, and that you're
exactly you know, someone gets excited. They've probably been thinking
about doing this project whatever it is, for five years,
maybe longer, and now it's time. Well, now it's time,
and you know.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
It's like it's time, let's go.
Speaker 4 (05:14):
You know, I just want you to look at it,
tell me how much and start and it's.
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Like, wait, let's slow down.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
But once we get into that, you know, the the
if you talked about that close. You know, I guess
there are still guys out there doing it. You know
those days are gone. This isn't you know. Let's let's
get husband and wife at a kitchen table for three hours,
and if you buy it right now, I'll give you
a discount. You know what this isn't. We're here to inform,
(05:39):
We're here to guide. We're here to counsel so that
you get what you're looking for. We can give you
ideas of if you did this, it might reduce the cost,
if you did this, it might do this, what have you.
But once we get into that design, it's very interactive
with the homeowner. I mean, we're you know it's here.
Here's a first draft. I love this, I don't like this.
(06:02):
What if we did this? Great, Let's explore all the
options in this three D world and spend a little
money doing that, versus let's go build it and decide
I don't like this, rip it out and let's do
it again.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
That's a lot more expensive.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
It's a lot easier to move the mouse than it
is to get out the saws all, let's face it,
and it's a lot less expensive. So you know the
mistakes you know, in the old days, and I know
a lot of guys that do business like this, they
would draw something on a legal pad or an hour napkin, right,
And you know, we say napkin, but I've seen it
happen where they're sitting at the table and he well,
here's what we're thinking.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
The homeowner comes home and.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
They go, oh, I really don't I've thought that wall
was going to be cool, but I really don't like
it right there. Well, now let's take it out and
start over. Right in three D design, you can you
can see what it's going to look, wait like to
eliminate that wall.
Speaker 4 (06:49):
Or see potential problems. And you know a lot of
times again you said in the past, we were working
on these two D plans. Well, unless your brain is
working in three D, you get there and all of
a sudden, go oh, I didn't realize this thing above
us was going to be in the way, or this
thing below us was going to be in the way.
You know, in three D it's you know, this doesn't
(07:10):
work or this does work absolutely.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
And you know, the other thing that I think the
three D renderings do is to show the relationship of
the other rooms because many times when you get engaged
in a remodeling project, and you know, we just recently
did a mid century modern house in Brookfield, and one
of the things was with the first renderings that we did,
the cabinets weren't to He didn't want that I wanted.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
He wanted it this way.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
And I think that's awesome because when you just go
into a cabinet shop and you look at a cabinet
and go, yeah, it's a nice cabinet, what is it
going to look like in my house?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Exactly?
Speaker 4 (07:38):
Doesn't really work with everything else in the house and
what have you, and you know, and then like everything else,
you know, the quality of the design, the work, the accuracy,
you know, and when you and I are doing a design,
you know, I could be spending five, six, seven, eight
hours measuring an existing house before I even draw it.
(07:58):
But that that that what we call as built three
D model in the computer. It's exact. I mean, it's
that that is exactly the dimensions we're not. This isn't close,
and you know, the carpenters will figure out how to
make that fit or maybe it won't fit. And now
there's a six weeks delay because we had to order
(08:18):
a cabinet that was three inches smaller because that that
that was a close measurement.
Speaker 2 (08:24):
This is it. That's it.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
I mean, it works in the computer, it will work
in real life.
Speaker 3 (08:28):
It's it's you bring up a very a very salient point.
I think the thing is with when you're designing and
you have a good design and the carpenters can put it,
it's really like an instruction manual. They can open it
up and go cabinet four or five goes here, kebint
four O six goes here, and the project doesn't get delayed,
it goes faster.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
And that's that's the other thing you know that it's
really want to come down to it, this is all
about communication and how we communicate. We're communicating to the
client much better as to here's what it's going to
look like and here's what they're looking, but also to
the trades people, the carpenters whatever. Now you know, they're
not only getting a two dimensional plan with dimensions on
it that says, as you know, cabin and A goes here,
(09:10):
and cabin and goes b. They're getting a three D
rendering of what that bank of cabinet should look like together,
which is a really good reference of you know, in
the past, the carpenter swinging the hammer really never met
the homeowner during the design phase and maybe doesn't have
a clear vision of what they were thinking. Now they're
(09:32):
looking exactly at what this needs to turn out to
do well, and.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
They're following that.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
You know, they can follow the progression too when they
come home at night and they look at, Okay, now
the wall's roughed in, or now the pantry cabinet's in place. Yep,
they can hold up their rendering and say, yep, that's correct,
And I think that's that's great for peace of mind.
And many times I'll have people look at something in question,
you know, case in point, the one we just won
the award on there was a chimney chase there that
(09:57):
was abandoned yep, And they said, hey, you know what,
cold is there some way we could utilize that space?
And there's a bookshelf in there now with cookboards and
which is great. You know, every inch it was lost space.
And that's the other thing, the efficiency of a bathroom
or a kitchen, you know, storage space. How if you're
(10:17):
the triangle is the old one, you know, the old
NKBA thing is make sure you have the triangle, but
you know it does. It makes for almost a symphonic
approach to cooking because it's everything's like yep.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Yeah, we're you know, we're always looking for aesthetics and
is this look right? But it's also function and that's
you know, going back to what we talked about, is
you know, we can lay in the proper furniture, we
can lay in you know, how far is the island
away from the counter, the or the range or what
have you. Those are all you know, things that in
the three D world we nail down exactly before anybody
(10:49):
swings a hammer.
Speaker 3 (10:51):
Well, and on that particular kitchen, one of the things
that I think the other thing the three three D
renderings really helped with is we have white cabinets in there,
but the island is a bright and that bright blue
grabs some of the And if you would say that
to somebody like you're doing right now, you're kind of
laughing and you go like really, but when you see
it and then you see it in there was some
stained glass in the door that had that blue in
(11:12):
that we drew off of that, right, the same color pattern,
and it really made the whole thing come together. And
I'm not sure they would have made that choice had
they have not seen it in the rendering.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
I did a design for a project and they were
very into skiing and wanted to kind of ski shelley
look and wood sided stained house whatever, and I proposed
red exterior windows. Again, you say it out loud and
are you out of your mind? It's done and it's
beautiful and they love it well.
Speaker 3 (11:43):
And you know, some of these, some of these photographs
I peruse through marketplace on Facebook, and every now and
then they'll throw up these old mansions and things that
have been revamped, or or houses that were very plain
ranch houses that they redo. When you see it in
a three D rendering, that's when people really start to
get excited, exactly, and they start to collaborate too. That's
(12:04):
the other thing I love about And I always say
this to new clients. I always say, the end result
is going to be a collaboration between you and your designer, right,
because you're gonna look at stuff and you go, that sucks.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
I don't like that, but I like this, I like this, right?
Or what if?
Speaker 3 (12:17):
The what IF's come up to during you know, It
stimulates thought and at the meetings, people get excited because
they can start to see what's doing. What happens if
I put these conor tops on it, Well, let's see here,
let's take this and put them on.
Speaker 4 (12:29):
That's very simple. And that's and you're exactly right. It's
that collaborate. They get involved in the process and at
the end of the day, you know it's their home.
They're gonna instead of them being apprehensive about it, am
I gonna like this? You're gonna help us design what
you want. We're just here to guide you, make sure
it's done right and give you ideas, suggestions, things you
(12:51):
might not have thought of because we're the pros at it,
you know.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
Chris, We're gonna take a short break, but when we
come back, let's talk about what some of the dangers
are of rushing design. What are some of the dangers
of Obviously there's many companies out there that don't even
have designs and just I you know, winging it. Let's
let's talk about that after the break. Fair enough, all right,
News News Talk eleven thirty w I S. And we
will return after these messages. News Talk eleven thirty w
(13:21):
I S. If you're thinking about a remodeling project, I
always say you should get two or three opinions. Make
one of those hours. We'd love to come out and
talk to you about a kitchen, a bathroom, a rec room,
exterior project edition. You can reach us on the worldwide
web at Kurznerinc. Dot com that's k E r Z
n E r I n C dot com, or give
us a call at two six two five six seven
twenty five hundred. At Kerzner. We will treat your home
(13:42):
as if it were our own. If you're just tuning in,
I have I have a returning guest, good friend of mine.
We've been working at concert together for a number of
years with award winning design now Chris Agner from Chris
Agner Design a fixture at NARY. Chris is probably one
of the few people I can honestly say who's been
around Neary longer.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
Than I have.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Probably you've been president, Yeah, you've been president of the
local chapter, you've been president of the national chapter. You're
still very active in NARY. And I always say I
don't have to talk about on the on the radio
in Wisconsin because I think everybody knows Nary. You know,
as evidenced by the show exactly. You know, there's a
(14:21):
ton of people. I can't believe the traffic at the show, right,
you know, And.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
It's great, and you know, we're we're fortunate in this
area to have the level of engagement that we have
with nary members in that shows. As the national president,
I am in other states. I talk to other what
we call chapters in other states, and there are some
shows across the country nothing like what we have here.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
Nothing, I mean.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
These shows and other places are held at you know,
the conference room at a hotel or the church, yeah
have you, And I mean the show we have here
is one of the largest and longest running home improvement
remodeling shows in the country. And it's great for the
consumer to be able to go one place and see everything,
(15:08):
talk to people they want to possibly have work on
their homes, and get really comfortable with that relationship.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
And you know, the keyword is relationship. When you when
you invite I always say, you invite a remodel ear
into your house. You know, he's going to have access
to your computers, he's going to have access to your
file cabinets, he's going to have access to your wife'
launder age or let's face.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
It, it's true.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
I mean, you have to what I'm getting to is,
and I say this at all my seminars, you have
to trust the person that's going to be working in
your house. What better way to establish who you who
the good people are, and honestly, who you don't want
to talk to. They're going to a show and having
conversations with the I mean, the owners are down there,
and that's the another thing I love about NARY shows
is that the lion's share of the contractors down there,
(15:50):
the owners are into booth. It's not some person that
they've hired or some pr person, it's the owners. So
you get to talk to to NARY members about what
their project is, see if your personalities fit, see if
your communication style fits, and is this going to work
out right? Exactly because it's a tremendous amount of time,
it's a tremendous amount of trust, and it's a tremendous
amount of money. I mean, the average what's the average
(16:12):
kitchen today?
Speaker 4 (16:13):
How much you know, if you had to say one
hundred thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
One hundred thousands, right, what's a bathroom? Right? Fifty to start, Yeah,
fifty to start.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
And you know, HGTV as much as I enjoy watching
you know, the cooking shows and that, which I don't
I'm kidding.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
I walk in on my wife watching them.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
But you know, I see these people doing these kitchens
and they go, oh, we spent the whopping twenty five
You know what, twenty five thousand ain't getting your cabinets right.
You're not getting cabinets for that. So my point is this,
it is an extremely expensive proposition to do remodeling, additions,
anything like that. So you want to make sure that
the people you get are going to be looking out
(16:51):
for your best interests. And that's where you know, we
can kind of dovetail that all together now and say
that's where good design comes in.
Speaker 2 (16:58):
That's the first part. Now.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
When we left or Break, I said, there's many companies
out there, Chris that don't even really design. They just
kind of do.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
I don't. Is it wing it? How would you? How
would you? I mean?
Speaker 4 (17:10):
I think there's you know, there's levels from nothing to
what we do and everything in between. And you know,
it's whatever works for whatever project. And you know, if
it's if it's you know, I'm going to put in
a wider door. I'm going to put in a new
front door. You know, maybe a very simple thing is
all that's necessary. But when you start talking about you know,
fifty thousand in up bathrooms, one hundred thousand and up kitchens,
(17:33):
you know, two hundred and fifty thousand and up editions,
you know those kind of numbers. You know it. You
cannot afford to make a mistake. This isn't, you know,
this isn't We went out to dinner, had a bad Hamburger,
and we'll go somewhere else tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
And get a good one. This is y.
Speaker 4 (17:47):
We bought a bad kitchen, and for the next twenty
years we're going to you know, be upset that we
have a very bad kitchen.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Well, and design is so subjective, so I think, you
know what what what I love about our process, although
it does it does take some time to get to
the to the actual where when we're going to pull
the trigger, right, it takes some time, but the homeowners
are involved in that whole that whole proposition, right everything.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
I was just going to say, it's fun to see
the excitement, you know, as we talked about earlier, you know,
I'm ready to go, let's go. Come on, Nick, give
me a price. Let's let's go. When when of the
guys going to be there, Let's go, you know. But
but we get into that first, you know, showing them
that first draft, the first version that we're going to
start now talking about revising and stuff, and all of
(18:31):
a sudden, you know, you can just see them go, oh,
this is cool, and I want to what if we
did this? And now now they're engaged, you know, and
now all of a sudden, you know, for the next
three days, you know, they're emailing us. I saw this
picture with this worker, I saw this picture with this work.
What do you think about this? And that's awesome because
now when we finally get to well, and when we
finally get to the end, it's not what you and
(18:55):
I designed, it's what you and I and they designed,
and you know there it's they they, you know. And
now when they're sitting at the island with their friends
having a glass of wine and talking about, yeah, we
we decided to do this, and then we did this,
it's it's awesome to see that.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Well.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
And you know the other thing is is that you
have somebody has your back, so you know, a lot
of people understand kind of what they want. They want
an island over here, this or that. But the other
thing design does is it puts all the outlets into
the code. It does the engineering for removing walls, you know,
like the one we just worked at at the camp
that there's a there's literally a wall coming out of
the center of the house and we had a column
(19:30):
in there. What we had engineering done and now we
can remove that column so it doesn't have to go
through the countertop and things like that. So it's nice
because they can come up with their dreams and we
can tell them, Okay, this is what's what's going to happen.
Speaker 4 (19:42):
Yeah, And that's where you know, you and I have
been doing this a very long time, and that's where
that expertise of being able to look at something and go, okay,
this is going to require this. And you know the
other part of that is that the surprise of the
change order in the middle of rough framing, where the
the carpenter calls you and when I say you, I
(20:04):
don't mean you, but the boss or the sales guy
who calls the client says, we didn't realize this was
a load bearing wall, and you know, mister and missus Jones,
we need another you know, twelve five hundred dollars to
put you know, an engineered.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Being here by the way, your whole kitchens in the
dumpster right now.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Right and what do you say?
Speaker 4 (20:23):
No, no, I'll pass right, So you know, but that's
what good design. First of all, we're going to identify
that in this process because we're not winging it.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
We're not.
Speaker 4 (20:33):
You know, here's a picture of two kitchens we did
three years ago. They're close to what you're doing. Sign
here and we'll get started. This is we've walked gone
through every inch of that whatever that part of that
house or structure, and we know that's load bearing or
that's not, or that's going to require this, and we
get that all captured in the design phase up front,
(20:54):
so that you know, there's always the possibility for a
change order when we open something up. We still don't
have X ray vision. I'm I'm guessing it's coming in
the next iPhone.
Speaker 3 (21:04):
But you know whatever, I always say, if I could
see through walls and would be doing an acting us.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
That might be coming sooner than we think.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
But right now, you know, so there's that possibility open
something up and find some damage or rod or what
have you. But it isn't the well we didn't realize, well,
you're a professional. You should have realized.
Speaker 3 (21:23):
Right, well, and you know, case in point, I think
one of the other things. And again I'm not trying
to bad mouth any any of the competitors, but the
truth of the matter is is that both you and
I know the importance of certifications, know the importance of
being master certified remodelers, continuing education. I mean, really, there's
no there is no school for remodeling contractors, right, you
(21:44):
learn it on the fly. So certified remodelers through through nary.
I have to tell you. They say that the securities
license is the hardest license to get for investments, right.
The second is a broker's license in real estate. And
I have a broker's license, and I'm here to tell
you it was a pretty rough tests. There's a lot
of memory stuff, there's a lot of meats and bounds.
You got to know all these different different terms and things.
(22:08):
I've been in the remodeling business my whole life, and
when I took the certified Remodeler test, I was sitting
there with Dean Harrigu's past president, and he had been
in the remodeling business forever, and literally I.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
Looked over at him.
Speaker 3 (22:18):
We were both sweating at that test because, you know what,
there was a lot of information there. And I'm going
to just say it. I've been in the business my
whole life. I didn't know there was information I didn't know.
And so, you know, when you're doing designs and things
like that and people are worried, they say, well, you know,
our budget is one hundred thousand, but if worst came
the worst, we could go one hundred and ten.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
That's it. You don't have any more money, so you
better make damn sure.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
I maximize that budget and do it, you know, right right,
and help the homeowner get the most they can for
that money.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
So, I mean from a professionalism standpoint, there are there
are people who are better at this than others, and
that's those are the certified.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
Remodelers anything else.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, and I think that, you know, I think people
are coming around now, but in the past it was
always I'm gonna get three estimates to take the cheapest one. Okay,
well guess what, there's a reason why they're the cheap Well,
sometimes there's a reason why they're the cheapest. Either they
don't know what they're doing, or they're going to get
even with you on change orders halfway through the project.
And we've seen that happen as well, so, you know,
a good design. Another thing that you know, Matt who
(23:21):
is another guy that we're working with that we did
just did his kitchen. Now we're going to be doing
his bathrooms, in his in his rec room. You know,
he he has looked at the plans several times and
gone over them. So we're on like our fourth or
fifth revision of the plans because he's able to go
through and look at things. And that's another thing, right,
I mean, homeowners get the plans in their hands, they
(23:42):
can spend some time with it exactly.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
You know, not only are we looking at things, you know,
in the three D world on a computer screen, but
then we're creating presentation sets so that they have you know,
we still have the two dimensional floor plans with dimensions
and all those things to scale and the three D
view and elevations and what have you, but you know,
creating those layouts of that so they can take a
(24:06):
weekend or take a week and really study that and
walk around their house and go, oh, I see where
this is, or and and and then get back to
us and go, you know what if we did that?
I was looking at my house and I see what
we're doing here? What if we added that little hall
area next to it?
Speaker 2 (24:22):
And did you know?
Speaker 4 (24:23):
Those are all things that just don't come to light
without the ability to look at this stuff.
Speaker 3 (24:29):
Or like David Laquisha said, what if what if we
put a little bookshelf in where that should used to be?
You know that cool little details that make the big differences.
I think the other thing is, you know, with design,
it carries you through the project. You're able to go
through the entire project before and nail is driven. And
that's so important.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
People.
Speaker 3 (24:48):
We've got a couple of minutes left. Chris, give out
your information because you do designs.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
Yeah, it's Chris Eigner Design. I do three D modeling,
three D renderings. Whether it's as simple as we want
to see what the outside of our house looks like
with different color siding and some trim to you know,
the big projects I do for you and many others,
custom home designs, what have you. You can reach me
at two six two seven nine seven eight eight one
(25:13):
eight or just google Chris Egner design cool.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
And if you're thinking about a project, you can get
a hold of Kursoner at again Cursonerinc dot com. That's
k e r z n e r i n C
dot com. Or give us a call at two six
two five six seven twenty five hundred. Hey Chris, thanks
for coming in on. Say thank you. All right, all right,
News Talk eleven thirty w I s N. We will
return again next week
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