Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
When you need wisdom and advice.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Seek out a guru.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
When you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now to Nick the Construction Guru.
Here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Talk eleven thirty w I S and Nick the Construction Guru.
I have an exciting show today. I have a new guest. Actually,
I'm sorry, a returning new guest. You've been on the
show a few times, Adam. Interestingly, before the show started,
we're talking all kinds of things that are going on
right now, some conspiracies, some not. And I'm gonna you know,
(00:43):
I'm gonna hand it over to you, Adam. Tell us
a little bit about what's up engineering, and then let's
start talking to you. You. You had a lot of
ideas on the grid, on data centers, what's going on,
reapates ending soon, so I can't keep up with it, man,
and you've got a lot of stuff going on. Tell
(01:03):
us a little bit about your company first.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Absolutely, yeah, certainly things are changing fast out there. So
we're an engineering focused company. We do everything related to power,
so we do solar battery backup generators. So if you're
looking for resilient power, lowering your bills, improving your finances.
That's really what we do, and really fundamental to us
is we're debt free company, right, So we're going to
(01:26):
be here for the long haul. And really the two
salient topics for today are one, the tax credit for
solar and battery backup is ending at the end of
this year, so a few short days. That means that
solar is going to get a little more expensive for people.
But more importantly, a lot of companies are going to
go out of business. It's going to be a wasteland.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
And why do you say that?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So most of solar companies are based on debt, right,
customer acquisition costs, So what it takes to advertise and
get a new customers very expensive for a lot of companies,
and doing that, they acquire a lot of debt. They
try to grow really quickly, faster than they probably should
if they were cash flow managers like we are. And
then when the music stops, right, when the market turns down,
(02:12):
everything stops right.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And let me ask you this. You pretty much convinced
me on the solar thing, and I have some solar
power on some properties. How are people, I guess in Wisconsin,
how are people? Are they more accepting of solar power
or is it still that weird? You know, there was
that time when it was like that weird esoteric you
(02:37):
know theology of right, yeah, what is How are people
accepting it now?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah? So we get some of that, you know, across
the political spectrum. We get people on the far left,
far right, everywhere in between. So I think that's definitely
a good sign, right that people think now it's a technology, right,
it's not a political statement, and that's really important. We
still do have customers to this day that sign up
and say I don't know if it's gonna work, or
I don't think it's going to work, but here's some money,
(03:02):
and let's go try it. And they get the first
power bill and they're like, well, it actually does work, right,
So I think that's the more people that it does work. Yeah,
for sure, no two ways about it.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I know that because in Arizona, I have a property
with solar on it and the bills would be six
or seven hundred dollars during the air conditioning and they're
nowhere near that. And and I think the other thing
that a lot of people talk about with solar just
from a you know, I'm not an expert like you are,
but I hear a lot of well it wears out quickly.
(03:35):
That hasn't been my experience either. There's like everything else, cars, houses,
there's a lifespan, but you have to factor that in
when you're when you're purchasing it, right, Yeah, that's part
of the deal. And you guys are real good at
explaining how that works.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And I think the biggest thing that wears out is
the electronics. Right, So solar is DC like your car,
and it's got to produce AC to match the grid.
So those electronics it does, that conversion is really important.
So the brand and the type you choose is super
super important. And that's why for us, we have only
a couple of brands we trust. We know they are
(04:08):
bulletproof ones we use. They've been in the business longer
than anyone else, mostly German brands. That's what we like
to stick with because you know, they've been doing this
a really long time.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I think one of the challenges you have, and correct
me if I'm wrong, is that you know there's probably
a big disparagement in pricing. When you look at you know,
items that are sourced from China VERSUS, because let's face it,
they're just the workers just aren't getting paid the same
and the quality isn't the same because they're always trying
(04:40):
to be in a competitive situation. Is that the case
with solar.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, it is. So we see a lot of that
with Chinese materials. So there's a couple of court cases
out there through different trade world trade organizations that have
basically decided that the Chinese panels have an unfair advantage
and so they are putting tariffs and taxes on them
to prevent them from being and trying to destroy what
US solar industry we do have. So for US, we
(05:04):
stick with USA made panels and we buy as many
USA components as we can, and that really has made
a lot of tariffs and things that happen kind of
a non issue for US, but does make us a
premium product, right that's going to last longer. But at
the same time, you know that your dollars are going
to keep Americans working as well.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
We discussed it. I'm going to I'm going to open
this up with a question to you, why do you
think that people should start being concerned with now I
just when I came in here, and I wasn't thinking
of you. It had I'm just saying I got my
wee energy built today and it was nine hundred and
fifteen dollars for the month. Sure, Greg looked at me
(05:45):
and said, holy cow, I'm not running anything crazy. I
do have a heated garage at fifty and we run
a hot tup. Those are the only things that I
think we have that most maybe maybe a lot of
people aren't doing. Okay, So what is happening with the energy?
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, So starting in January, prices are going to go
up again. So there was another rat increase. This was
passed a couple of years ago. So everybody's going to
see their bills go up. So your bill in January
is going to go up even more. This year. Natural
gas is about the same as it was last year,
maybe just slightly less, So your heating expense is going
to be about the same as it was last year.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Why is electricity so expensive?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, fundamentally, it's a supply and demand. As you have
more demand, that drives the cost up, and to permit
and build more electric power plants is expensive fundamentally. Now
the power plants that are being built are what's called
aero derivatives. They basically take an airplane engine and mount
(06:46):
it in a building and use that to produce power.
It's the most expensive way to produce power, but it's
also the fastest way to kind of get a power
plant up and running.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Do you have to pay extra for luggage?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah? Right. Nuclear is still, you know, the cheapest form
of energy. But the but.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
And it comes with so much controversy.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Right, Yeah, no one wants a new plant in their backyard.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah. Well, if prices go up, you know, that'll change.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yep, and people should expect that. I mean, right now,
I would tell anyone to expect energy prices to continue
to escalate for the next ten to twenty.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Years, and the demand is going to go up considerably
with what we were talking about before we got started here.
And that's all least AI data centers. I was under
the impression, like I think many people are, that the
data centers also were required to produce at least some
of their own energy through their own sources. But you
said that's not necessarily true.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, there's no laws out there that require them to
produce their own energy at least in Wisconsin for sure.
A lot of them are trying to produce some and
putting in some solar. But you have to remember the
footprint they produce of energy is small compared to their usage.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
These data centers use entire cities worth of power, right,
so think like you known AI data center can use
as much power as the city of Brookfield or the
city of Madison.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Insanity.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, an entire city and this is on you know,
a three or four hundred acre site. It's just consuming
large amounts of energy and large amounts of water too
for cooling.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Well, in Wisconsin, we don't really have to worry about that.
They're not planning a lot of data centers, are they.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, they're planning a bunch of data centers, right, you know,
Port Washington, Beaver Dam, obviously, Microsoft down at Oak Creek,
And that's just the ones that are kind of in
the news right now. There's just a rolling map that
you can go out there and look up that shows
all the data centers in every state. In Wisconsin is
very heavily popular, populated, relatively low building costs here which helps,
(08:42):
and fundamentally cooler temperatures so when you have to cool
something having cooler temperatures makes it cheaper.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So we're almost like a perfect scenario for data centers
as opposed to So do you think that in the
Midwest we're going to seem based on the whole country,
we're going to see a higher percentage of centers than
East and West coast.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, I think that's what you're going to see. You're
gonna see a lot in uh, you know, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota,
right the upper Midwest where you have access to high
speed fiber cables but also access to you know, relatively
low building costs, land cost, still very rural areas, but
still lots of services that they need.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Data centers are very service heavy, but they need very
low cost and we sort of have to employ a
lot of people they don't, right, So once they're built,
after that initial phase, you know, there's gonna be a
small number of people that are sort of taking care
of the building and the facilities. But you know, it's
not like getting a self run right, Right, It's not
like getting a Ford or a GM factory where you're
(09:43):
going to have you know, three shifts of a thousand
workers each and that sort of downstream effect.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
You know, I don't see any upside to them. I
really don't.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, I mean, certainly it's it's an economic upside for
the country, right but for the local community it's something
they have to decide individually. And so, you know, does
it make sense, will that draw more, you know, high
paying jobs the area, Does that drive economic growth or
is no? Is a bad thing? And certainly seeing a
mix out there in Wisconsin right now.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
It looks like it's going to be a real burden
for the energy payers.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
That's the biggest thing. Right, So the data centers, you know,
they all negotiate up front, very long term, low cost
energy contracts, and so ultimately the residential customers are the
ones that are going to see the rate increases because
you know that the money has to be made up
somewhere and that's what's going to happen. You're going to
see more of that, and that's where solar is going
to be even more important for people.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And you know, we already experience brownouts and blackouts, not
so much blackouts, but I know I've experienced several brownouts
over even last summer, and that's going to increase. So
another thing that I think is important that I'm and
I've been talking to you about is actually the generators too, right.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Generators are batteries, right, So for a brown out scenario,
a generator's not going to help you because the power
has to be out for a number of seconds before
the generator starts up turns on. So that's more for
a blackout scenario, but for brownouts it's battery backups. So
when you have brownouts, the batteries run straight through it
and you never experience a brown out after that. So yeah,
you kind of have to decide what are your concerns,
(11:22):
is it brownouts or blackouts, and then plan around that.
We can certainly help people navigate that decision making process, you.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Know, I don't think unfortunately, I don't think a lot
of people really remember a lot of blackouts. But it
even a four hour blackout changes your life. I mean
it really does, and you really realize how dependent you
are on the grid and all of that. I had
the unique scenario being up north and up North Wisconsin,
and more of the blackouts were because lines were knocked
(11:51):
down or it was infrastructure. It really wasn't on demand.
But you feel helpless, Yeah, you really feel helps and
you wonder you know how much longer are the hamburgers
going to hold up in the refrigerator? And you know,
obviously there's no heating or air, you can't do laundry,
and all of the sudden you're just like feel paralyzed.
(12:12):
So I completely you know, three or four hours of
a blackout to me freaks me out. It really does.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
And you know there's a there's a real economic impact
to it. If you think about you're out of power
eight hours, you have to throw away everything in your
refrigerator and your freezer, go repurchase all those items. It's
thousands of dollars.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Adam, let's take a short break. When we come back,
I want to talk more about this because I know
we don't want to do any fear mongering, but this
is a real concern. It really is, and it's only
going to get worse with what's going on and being
built here. So we'll talk about that after break when
we return. All right, news talk eleven thirty WISN when
we return. After these messages, you just talk eleven thirty WISN.
(12:57):
Returning from break. It's Nick the construction girl. And if
you're thinking about a remodeling project, I always say you
should get a few opinions. Make one of those ours.
We'd love to come out and talk to you about
a new rec room, kitchen, bathroom, even small jobs like
countertops and things like that. Give us a try. You
can reach us on a worldwide web at Kurznerinc. Dot
com that's ker z n e r I NC dot com,
(13:17):
or give us a call at two six two five
six seven twenty five hundred at Kurzoner. We will treat
your house as if it were our own. I have
a returning guest if you're just tuning in. Fascinating. Strangely enough,
I came in today and uh said right away to
my producer Greg John, I said, I can't believe my
energy bill was nine hundred and fifteen dollars this month. Now, granted,
(13:39):
I do heat a warehouse and some other things on
our our garage on the property to do some of
my work, but HI. Nevertheless, and strangely enough, my guest
today is Adam Coker from What's Up Engineering, And you've
been on the show and we've talked about alternative energy
programs and rebates and all kinds of other things in
(13:59):
the past. But you just said it there's a column
before in the storm here, and I want you to
explain what you meant by that, Adam, because I'm a
little freaked out honestly, as you told me this.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
So you know, well, I hope that's a good thing.
I think what happens. You know, people in general, they
get their bill, they assume that, you know, they just
pay it, and they don't know what the future could
look like. In Wisconsin, I say this is the call
before the storm, because we still enjoy a residential side
flat rate electric pricing, so you pay the same amount
for energy, doesn't matter if it's in the afternoon when
(14:34):
the demand is the highest or in the morning when
the demand is the lowest. So what we're going to
see here in the near future, as data centers come
online and the consumption goes up is potentially demand pricing,
right and it could be as extreme as dynamic demand pricing,
which means, depending on what the rest of the grid
is consuming, your electric rates could be three, four five
(14:57):
times what they are right now for a short period
of time. But that nine hundred dollars bill you had
could potentially be fourteen to seventeen hundred dollars because you're
using energy at the wrong time of day, right when
everyone else is using that. And that's really where solar
and a battery system wins out, because you can use
that system to shape your rates and shape your usage,
(15:20):
and that nine hundred dollars bill goes way way down
even if you're using it the wrong times of day.
And so we're going to see a situation, I think
in the future where people will have to be very
diligent about when they use energy, like six PM in
the summer, they may have to go through and turn
everything off in their house, including their air conditioner, to
prevent their bill from being really high. And that's not
(15:42):
just a Wisconsin thing. This is across the US. We're
seeing this. We've enjoyed very flat electric demand across the
US for a number of years through energy efficiency improvements
and all that. But now a data center's coming online
and consuming.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Data centers are coming on in Wisconsin that you know of, Yeah,
I proposed what's coming.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
It's a great question, So I don't know. I haven't
looked at the map recently. The last count I had
it was over ten over ten and this is like
city size, right, And that's.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
What I was going to say you said at the
earlier segment here, you said that the data center is
going to use as much as the city as Brookfield.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, so imagine building ten centy of Brookfields in the
next two years.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
The demand, Now, that's going to create a demand for infrastructure,
which we can do. Sure, who's going to pay for
the infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Well, at the end of the day, you know, all
your investor own utilities. The infrastructure is paid for through bonds,
and those bonds and the interests associated with them get
paid by the rate payers.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Right, So there's a potential for more usage and infrastructure
going on our bill. Right.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
And infrastructure is already a huge issue. Right, We've got
an aging infrastructure across the whole country. Right, it's not
just Wisconsin problem. Infrastructure was put in forty fifty sixty
years ago that had a twenty five year live span,
and so there's investment for that as well as investment
just for growth.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Do you have any idea what it takes to build
a modern a modern energy supply today.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, So there's a couple of ways to add energy
to the grid. The cheapest and fastest is solar. So
that's that's not just a plug. That's reality, right, you
need to build quickly energy and permit it. Solar's fast.
The next one is what they call peaker plant, so
it handles the peak demands. Those are aerow derivatives. They
(17:29):
take a jet engine and put it in basically a building,
run it off a natural gas. It's the most expensive
way to produce energy, but it's fast, right, you can
permit it fast, you can build it fast, and you
can actually it.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Turns off meat the peak.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You can meet the peaks very quickly. The problem with that,
if you go put a new order in today for
a jet engine, for a peaker plant, you'll get it in
about ten years.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, it's it's very long lead time because of this. Right,
they're they're the demand that's in the grid.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
They're going off the door every day, every day.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Fast as they can build them.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, and then how long does it take to build
a plant?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, so paker plants in a couple of years?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
No, no, no, no, I mean not a piker plant like
a like we have.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And yeah, if you want to build like currently you know,
most of our plants are natural gas, but they've been
converted over from coal. So if you build just a
straight natural gas plant. You know, if you started today,
it's probably five years.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Man. Wow, so this is there. This is a calumn
before the storm.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
It is.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, it's not a matter of if we're going to
see this happen. It's a matter of when and how
well prepared we are and how long it's going to last. Right.
You know, my experience has been even if they do
raise the rates to cover some of this infrastructure, and
that once it's done, they don't give us a break back.
It's just right. It just keeps going well.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
The infrastructure keeps going right because you know, you take
out a twenty year bond to put in new infrastructure,
and by the time those bonds are paid off, well,
guess what more infrastructure needs to be replaced. So it's
a perpetual problem to maintain a very complex infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I think again, we talked about this twice now, but
I'm just going to say it again. I think that
a lot of people think that these data centers are
going to be required to produce some of their own
energy somehow, some way and take the cost of that infrastructure.
But talking to you, that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's a fraction, it's a small fraction.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Okay, so we're going to see we're going to see
how long does it take to build a data center?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Do you know that two to three years?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
They can build that in two to three years. Takes
us ten years to get a jet engine, So in
two to three years, we're going to see that peak
coming out. Let's talk about solar. Okay, Now, people say, okay,
solar kill a lot. How do you how do you
justify the infrastructure on a residential building without now, without rebates,
Let's just be honest, right, and and how can you
(19:40):
can you give us some I know you can. Can
you give us some idea on payback? How this works? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
So payback? You know you're looking at without rebates, seven
to ten years for straight solar, Right, that's just going
to produce solar. You add batteries to it, it obviously
adds time to that. And batteries are more of a
preparation thing. You want to be prepared for those brownouts
as blackouts and then for the future those rate changes
right there, dynamic demand pricing, So you've got to consider
batteries in almost a separate category, right, Like the payback
(20:06):
is not there right now, but it's more of a
preparedness issue and getting it all while it's done right,
because it's obviously cheaper to install solar and batteries all
at once than to come back later and kind of
try to add them on. That's like building a house
versus adding additions, right, additions are always on your expense, right, Yeah, yeah,
So I think that's the big thing to think through
is your current payback, but really not even your current payback.
(20:27):
Is you know this system is going to last you
forty years, right, and so what does the future look
like forty years?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
That's not what And I just know that based on
my limited information, that's not what i've heard, right, I've
heard ten to fifteen. And I think you handled that
with the products you're.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Using, right exactly. I think if you use cut rate
pricing products, then yeah, you're gonna get probably fifteen to twenty.
That's what I would tell people to plan for if
you're using premium products like we are. You know, forty
is of realistic number. I personally own solar panels that
are over thirty years old and they still produce power
every single day.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Does it diminish with time?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
It does diminish it's gotten better. So now the panels
we install diminish less than they used to. But you know,
look at you're forty, it's still It's not like there's
a light switch that switches off, right, They're still producing power,
just less and.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
You can repair them, right.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, But do you care at you're forty if it's
producing eighty percent of power it was brand new. No,
it's all free at that point, long paid for itself.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Do you see do you foresee a day when they're
going to try and tax solar or anything like.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That, Like, yeah, you know in Wisconsin we have we
enjoy no property tax and no sales tax on solar,
which is a huge help. You know, at some point,
could the state law get changed to make that different. Sure,
certainly they could, but I don't see any momentum for
that right now. I think, you know, from a Wisconsin standpoint,
we need as much solar on the grid as we
(21:50):
can to stabilize the grid and to bring in more
of that productivity because fundamentally, the more solar it gets produced,
the less power plants that have to be built quickly
and kind of covering all this data center. So I
think we're an equilibrium point, right, Whereas.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Do you think there's any chance that they will reinstate
the rebates?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You know, that's a that's a federal thing. I think
the chances of it right now in our current political
environment are very slim, you know, I know you keep
an eye on this, Yeah, we watch it constantly. I
think it's very slim. I think in general, the whole
industry was surprised to see the rebate was abruptly canceled.
You know, we thought there may be some reduction or
(22:29):
you know, soft landing as they like to call them.
But to have a very abrupt ending is it's going
to create some shocks in the grid. It's going to
take two or three years for the shocks to kind
of appear, because, as we talked about, right, that's how
long it takes to build data centers. So we start,
we stop installing as much soler because there's not tax
credits to incentivize people, and then two or three years
from now, those data centers come online and by then,
(22:51):
you know, the snowball has gotten so big that you know,
to catch up is going to be really.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Do you see a day when you're wait went for
your company when you're waiting a year or two to
be to install solar.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I mean if we still have the tax credit right now,
I would be sold out for all of next year.
Really yeah, we'd be a year looked out.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
And so that demand and as you said, there's going
to be companies who carry a lot of debt that
it abruptly stops and they're going to be best case scenario,
they're going to be in trouble. Worst case scenari they're
going to be out of business.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Right. Yeah, we have a historical present for this. California
changed their solar rules and basically ninety percent of the
industry disappeared in a six month period. And so what
that meant was just companies went bankrupt light right, left
and down the middle. And so people have all these
systems that now they have no one to do service,
no one to do warranty repair. And so the ones
(23:44):
that were smart that you know, we're cash flow managed,
debt free like us, are still around. So that's going
to be now proliferated throughout the whole country.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
That's going to create a higher demand and a higher
cost for your panels as well. Correct. Yeah, it's interesting
because I think we kind of forgot about, you know,
it kind of went away at one point. There are
all these windmills going up, there are all these solar
farms going up, and then everybody kind of said, well,
it doesn't really work, so we're not going to use it.
But that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Well, you notice I didn't mention wind as an option
for building power plants. I personally am not a supporter
of wind. I don't think that it costs more to
produce and it's worth well, you know, basically, a windmill
hits its payback by the time you have to tear
it down and replace it, because they are life limited components,
and that's fundamentally different than solar, where you're not life limited.
They can just keep running.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah. Yeah, so let's say somebody's thinking about this. I'm
actually thinking about it more now that I didn't. It
doesn't click, you know, you don't you don't put the
dominos in a row so many times.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, we're living life every day and put one foot
front the other head.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah, and god forbid. You know, if one of the
ten wars that are going on happened now, now, that's
going to create a more of a demand for energy.
Right for sure. So if a person's thinking about this,
what are the steps?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, the first steps reach out to us, go online,
what's up engineering dot com? Or what's upsolar dot com?
Give us a call two six, two four or five fives.
You're a zero one one, and we'll walk you through
the whole process.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Yeah. You not what I like about you know, the
conversations that you and I have had in my interest
in this. You give solid numbers. This is how much
it's going to be, this is how long it's going
to take, and I think a lot of that. It's
not the case with a lot of company.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, and no pressure. You know. You you reached out
to us, We give you a quote. You might hear
back from us once to send Hey, we want to
follow up. But after that, if you decide not to
go forward, we're not going to keep sending you an
email every day and you know, calling you fourteen times
and it's just not what we do.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
And right now you're scheduling for spring.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
We're scheduling for spring now, yeah, spring and summer.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Well, Adam, As always, I appreciate you coming in and
sharing all this knowledge with us. Look forward to having
you on the show. Again, so thanks for spending some
time with the Guru. I know you're very busy. You're
in your work close today, so right appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
All Right News Talk eleven thirty w I s N.
We will return again next week
When you need wisdom and advice.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
Seek out a guru.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
When you need wisdom and advice about remodeling and design.
Lock on and listen right now to Nick the Construction Guru.
Here is award winning remodeling expert Nick Kerzner.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Talk eleven thirty w I S and Nick the Construction Guru.
I have an exciting show today. I have a new guest. Actually,
I'm sorry, a returning new guest. You've been on the
show a few times, Adam. Interestingly, before the show started,
we're talking all kinds of things that are going on
right now, some conspiracies, some not. And I'm gonna you know,
(00:43):
I'm gonna hand it over to you, Adam. Tell us
a little bit about what's up engineering, and then let's
start talking to you. You. You had a lot of
ideas on the grid, on data centers, what's going on,
reapates ending soon, so I can't keep up with it, man,
and you've got a lot of stuff going on. Tell
(01:03):
us a little bit about your company first.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Absolutely, yeah, certainly things are changing fast out there. So
we're an engineering focused company. We do everything related to power,
so we do solar battery backup generators. So if you're
looking for resilient power, lowering your bills, improving your finances.
That's really what we do, and really fundamental to us
is we're debt free company, right, So we're going to
(01:26):
be here for the long haul. And really the two
salient topics for today are one, the tax credit for
solar and battery backup is ending at the end of
this year, so a few short days. That means that
solar is going to get a little more expensive for people.
But more importantly, a lot of companies are going to
go out of business. It's going to be a wasteland.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
And why do you say that?
Speaker 2 (01:49):
So most of solar companies are based on debt, right,
customer acquisition costs, So what it takes to advertise and
get a new customers very expensive for a lot of companies,
and doing that, they acquire a lot of debt. They
try to grow really quickly, faster than they probably should
if they were cash flow managers like we are. And
then when the music stops, right, when the market turns down,
(02:12):
everything stops right.
Speaker 3 (02:14):
And let me ask you this. You pretty much convinced
me on the solar thing, and I have some solar
power on some properties. How are people, I guess in Wisconsin,
how are people? Are they more accepting of solar power
or is it still that weird? You know, there was
that time when it was like that weird esoteric you
(02:37):
know theology of right, yeah, what is How are people
accepting it now?
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah? So we get some of that, you know, across
the political spectrum. We get people on the far left,
far right, everywhere in between. So I think that's definitely
a good sign, right that people think now it's a technology, right,
it's not a political statement, and that's really important. We
still do have customers to this day that sign up
and say I don't know if it's gonna work, or
I don't think it's going to work, but here's some money,
(03:02):
and let's go try it. And they get the first
power bill and they're like, well, it actually does work, right,
So I think that's the more people that it does work. Yeah,
for sure, no two ways about it.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
I know that because in Arizona, I have a property
with solar on it and the bills would be six
or seven hundred dollars during the air conditioning and they're
nowhere near that. And and I think the other thing
that a lot of people talk about with solar just
from a you know, I'm not an expert like you are,
but I hear a lot of well it wears out quickly.
(03:35):
That hasn't been my experience either. There's like everything else, cars, houses,
there's a lifespan, but you have to factor that in
when you're when you're purchasing it, right, Yeah, that's part
of the deal. And you guys are real good at
explaining how that works.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
And I think the biggest thing that wears out is
the electronics. Right, So solar is DC like your car,
and it's got to produce AC to match the grid.
So those electronics it does, that conversion is really important.
So the brand and the type you choose is super
super important. And that's why for us, we have only
a couple of brands we trust. We know they are
(04:08):
bulletproof ones we use. They've been in the business longer
than anyone else, mostly German brands. That's what we like
to stick with because you know, they've been doing this
a really long time.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
I think one of the challenges you have, and correct
me if I'm wrong, is that you know there's probably
a big disparagement in pricing. When you look at you know,
items that are sourced from China VERSUS, because let's face it,
they're just the workers just aren't getting paid the same
and the quality isn't the same because they're always trying
(04:40):
to be in a competitive situation. Is that the case
with solar.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, it is. So we see a lot of that
with Chinese materials. So there's a couple of court cases
out there through different trade world trade organizations that have
basically decided that the Chinese panels have an unfair advantage
and so they are putting tariffs and taxes on them
to prevent them from being and trying to destroy what
US solar industry we do have. So for US, we
(05:04):
stick with USA made panels and we buy as many
USA components as we can, and that really has made
a lot of tariffs and things that happen kind of
a non issue for US, but does make us a
premium product, right that's going to last longer. But at
the same time, you know that your dollars are going
to keep Americans working as well.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
We discussed it. I'm going to I'm going to open
this up with a question to you, why do you
think that people should start being concerned with now I
just when I came in here, and I wasn't thinking
of you. It had I'm just saying I got my
wee energy built today and it was nine hundred and
fifteen dollars for the month. Sure, Greg looked at me
(05:45):
and said, holy cow, I'm not running anything crazy. I
do have a heated garage at fifty and we run
a hot tup. Those are the only things that I
think we have that most maybe maybe a lot of
people aren't doing. Okay, So what is happening with the energy?
What's going on?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, So starting in January, prices are going to go
up again. So there was another rat increase. This was
passed a couple of years ago. So everybody's going to
see their bills go up. So your bill in January
is going to go up even more. This year. Natural
gas is about the same as it was last year,
maybe just slightly less, So your heating expense is going
to be about the same as it was last year.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
Why is electricity so expensive?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Well, fundamentally, it's a supply and demand. As you have
more demand, that drives the cost up, and to permit
and build more electric power plants is expensive fundamentally. Now
the power plants that are being built are what's called
aero derivatives. They basically take an airplane engine and mount
(06:46):
it in a building and use that to produce power.
It's the most expensive way to produce power, but it's
also the fastest way to kind of get a power
plant up and running.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Do you have to pay extra for luggage?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Yeah? Right. Nuclear is still, you know, the cheapest form
of energy. But the but.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
And it comes with so much controversy.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
Right, Yeah, no one wants a new plant in their backyard.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah. Well, if prices go up, you know, that'll change.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yep, and people should expect that. I mean, right now,
I would tell anyone to expect energy prices to continue
to escalate for the next ten to twenty.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Years, and the demand is going to go up considerably
with what we were talking about before we got started here.
And that's all least AI data centers. I was under
the impression, like I think many people are, that the
data centers also were required to produce at least some
of their own energy through their own sources. But you
said that's not necessarily true.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Yeah, there's no laws out there that require them to
produce their own energy at least in Wisconsin for sure.
A lot of them are trying to produce some and
putting in some solar. But you have to remember the
footprint they produce of energy is small compared to their usage.
Speaker 3 (07:57):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
These data centers use entire cities worth of power, right,
so think like you known AI data center can use
as much power as the city of Brookfield or the
city of Madison.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Insanity.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yeah, an entire city and this is on you know,
a three or four hundred acre site. It's just consuming
large amounts of energy and large amounts of water too
for cooling.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Well, in Wisconsin, we don't really have to worry about that.
They're not planning a lot of data centers, are they.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Yeah, they're planning a bunch of data centers, right, you know,
Port Washington, Beaver Dam, obviously, Microsoft down at Oak Creek,
And that's just the ones that are kind of in
the news right now. There's just a rolling map that
you can go out there and look up that shows
all the data centers in every state. In Wisconsin is
very heavily popular, populated, relatively low building costs here which helps,
(08:42):
and fundamentally cooler temperatures so when you have to cool
something having cooler temperatures makes it cheaper.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So we're almost like a perfect scenario for data centers
as opposed to So do you think that in the
Midwest we're going to seem based on the whole country,
we're going to see a higher percentage of centers than
East and West coast.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, I think that's what you're going to see. You're
gonna see a lot in uh, you know, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota,
right the upper Midwest where you have access to high
speed fiber cables but also access to you know, relatively
low building costs, land cost, still very rural areas, but
still lots of services that they need.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Data centers are very service heavy, but they need very
low cost and we sort of have to employ a
lot of people they don't, right, So once they're built,
after that initial phase, you know, there's gonna be a
small number of people that are sort of taking care
of the building and the facilities. But you know, it's
not like getting a self run right, Right, It's not
like getting a Ford or a GM factory where you're
(09:43):
going to have you know, three shifts of a thousand
workers each and that sort of downstream effect.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
You know, I don't see any upside to them. I
really don't.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
Well, I mean, certainly it's it's an economic upside for
the country, right but for the local community it's something
they have to decide individually. And so, you know, does
it make sense, will that draw more, you know, high
paying jobs the area, Does that drive economic growth or
is no? Is a bad thing? And certainly seeing a
mix out there in Wisconsin right now.
Speaker 3 (10:11):
It looks like it's going to be a real burden
for the energy payers.
Speaker 2 (10:16):
That's the biggest thing. Right, So the data centers, you know,
they all negotiate up front, very long term, low cost
energy contracts, and so ultimately the residential customers are the
ones that are going to see the rate increases because
you know that the money has to be made up
somewhere and that's what's going to happen. You're going to
see more of that, and that's where solar is going
to be even more important for people.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And you know, we already experience brownouts and blackouts, not
so much blackouts, but I know I've experienced several brownouts
over even last summer, and that's going to increase. So
another thing that I think is important that I'm and
I've been talking to you about is actually the generators too, right.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Generators are batteries, right, So for a brown out scenario,
a generator's not going to help you because the power
has to be out for a number of seconds before
the generator starts up turns on. So that's more for
a blackout scenario, but for brownouts it's battery backups. So
when you have brownouts, the batteries run straight through it
and you never experience a brown out after that. So yeah,
you kind of have to decide what are your concerns,
(11:22):
is it brownouts or blackouts, and then plan around that.
We can certainly help people navigate that decision making process, you.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
Know, I don't think unfortunately, I don't think a lot
of people really remember a lot of blackouts. But it
even a four hour blackout changes your life. I mean
it really does, and you really realize how dependent you
are on the grid and all of that. I had
the unique scenario being up north and up North Wisconsin,
and more of the blackouts were because lines were knocked
(11:51):
down or it was infrastructure. It really wasn't on demand.
But you feel helpless, Yeah, you really feel helps and
you wonder you know how much longer are the hamburgers
going to hold up in the refrigerator? And you know,
obviously there's no heating or air, you can't do laundry,
and all of the sudden you're just like feel paralyzed.
(12:12):
So I completely you know, three or four hours of
a blackout to me freaks me out. It really does.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
And you know there's a there's a real economic impact
to it. If you think about you're out of power
eight hours, you have to throw away everything in your
refrigerator and your freezer, go repurchase all those items. It's
thousands of dollars.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Adam, let's take a short break. When we come back,
I want to talk more about this because I know
we don't want to do any fear mongering, but this
is a real concern. It really is, and it's only
going to get worse with what's going on and being
built here. So we'll talk about that after break when
we return. All right, news talk eleven thirty WISN when
we return. After these messages, you just talk eleven thirty WISN.
(12:57):
Returning from break. It's Nick the construction girl. And if
you're thinking about a remodeling project, I always say you
should get a few opinions. Make one of those ours.
We'd love to come out and talk to you about
a new rec room, kitchen, bathroom, even small jobs like
countertops and things like that. Give us a try. You
can reach us on a worldwide web at Kurznerinc. Dot
com that's ker z n e r I NC dot com,
(13:17):
or give us a call at two six two five
six seven twenty five hundred at Kurzoner. We will treat
your house as if it were our own. I have
a returning guest if you're just tuning in. Fascinating. Strangely enough,
I came in today and uh said right away to
my producer Greg John, I said, I can't believe my
energy bill was nine hundred and fifteen dollars this month. Now, granted,
(13:39):
I do heat a warehouse and some other things on
our our garage on the property to do some of
my work, but HI. Nevertheless, and strangely enough, my guest
today is Adam Coker from What's Up Engineering, And you've
been on the show and we've talked about alternative energy
programs and rebates and all kinds of other things in
(13:59):
the past. But you just said it there's a column
before in the storm here, and I want you to
explain what you meant by that, Adam, because I'm a
little freaked out honestly, as you told me this.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
So you know, well, I hope that's a good thing.
I think what happens. You know, people in general, they
get their bill, they assume that, you know, they just
pay it, and they don't know what the future could
look like. In Wisconsin, I say this is the call
before the storm, because we still enjoy a residential side
flat rate electric pricing, so you pay the same amount
for energy, doesn't matter if it's in the afternoon when
(14:34):
the demand is the highest or in the morning when
the demand is the lowest. So what we're going to
see here in the near future, as data centers come
online and the consumption goes up is potentially demand pricing,
right and it could be as extreme as dynamic demand pricing,
which means, depending on what the rest of the grid
is consuming, your electric rates could be three, four five
(14:57):
times what they are right now for a short period
of time. But that nine hundred dollars bill you had
could potentially be fourteen to seventeen hundred dollars because you're
using energy at the wrong time of day, right when
everyone else is using that. And that's really where solar
and a battery system wins out, because you can use
that system to shape your rates and shape your usage,
(15:20):
and that nine hundred dollars bill goes way way down
even if you're using it the wrong times of day.
And so we're going to see a situation, I think
in the future where people will have to be very
diligent about when they use energy, like six PM in
the summer, they may have to go through and turn
everything off in their house, including their air conditioner, to
prevent their bill from being really high. And that's not
(15:42):
just a Wisconsin thing. This is across the US. We're
seeing this. We've enjoyed very flat electric demand across the
US for a number of years through energy efficiency improvements
and all that. But now a data center's coming online
and consuming.
Speaker 3 (15:58):
Data centers are coming on in Wisconsin that you know of, Yeah,
I proposed what's coming.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
It's a great question, So I don't know. I haven't
looked at the map recently. The last count I had
it was over ten over ten and this is like
city size, right, And that's.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
What I was going to say you said at the
earlier segment here, you said that the data center is
going to use as much as the city as Brookfield.
Speaker 2 (16:19):
Yeah, so imagine building ten centy of Brookfields in the
next two years.
Speaker 3 (16:22):
The demand, Now, that's going to create a demand for infrastructure,
which we can do. Sure, who's going to pay for
the infrastructure.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Well, at the end of the day, you know, all
your investor own utilities. The infrastructure is paid for through bonds,
and those bonds and the interests associated with them get
paid by the rate payers.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
Right, So there's a potential for more usage and infrastructure
going on our bill. Right.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
And infrastructure is already a huge issue. Right, We've got
an aging infrastructure across the whole country. Right, it's not
just Wisconsin problem. Infrastructure was put in forty fifty sixty
years ago that had a twenty five year live span,
and so there's investment for that as well as investment
just for growth.
Speaker 3 (17:02):
Do you have any idea what it takes to build
a modern a modern energy supply today.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
Yeah, So there's a couple of ways to add energy
to the grid. The cheapest and fastest is solar. So
that's that's not just a plug. That's reality, right, you
need to build quickly energy and permit it. Solar's fast.
The next one is what they call peaker plant, so
it handles the peak demands. Those are aerow derivatives. They
(17:29):
take a jet engine and put it in basically a building,
run it off a natural gas. It's the most expensive
way to produce energy, but it's fast, right, you can
permit it fast, you can build it fast, and you
can actually it.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
Turns off meat the peak.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You can meet the peaks very quickly. The problem with that,
if you go put a new order in today for
a jet engine, for a peaker plant, you'll get it in
about ten years.
Speaker 3 (17:50):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Yeah, it's it's very long lead time because of this. Right,
they're they're the demand that's in the grid.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
They're going off the door every day, every day.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Fast as they can build them.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
Yeah, and then how long does it take to build
a plant?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah, so paker plants in a couple of years?
Speaker 3 (18:05):
No, no, no, no, I mean not a piker plant like
a like we have.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
And yeah, if you want to build like currently you know,
most of our plants are natural gas, but they've been
converted over from coal. So if you build just a
straight natural gas plant. You know, if you started today,
it's probably five years.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Man. Wow, so this is there. This is a calumn
before the storm.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
It is.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Yeah, it's not a matter of if we're going to
see this happen. It's a matter of when and how
well prepared we are and how long it's going to last. Right.
You know, my experience has been even if they do
raise the rates to cover some of this infrastructure, and
that once it's done, they don't give us a break back.
It's just right. It just keeps going well.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
The infrastructure keeps going right because you know, you take
out a twenty year bond to put in new infrastructure,
and by the time those bonds are paid off, well,
guess what more infrastructure needs to be replaced. So it's
a perpetual problem to maintain a very complex infrastructure.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
I think again, we talked about this twice now, but
I'm just going to say it again. I think that
a lot of people think that these data centers are
going to be required to produce some of their own
energy somehow, some way and take the cost of that infrastructure.
But talking to you, that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
It's a fraction, it's a small fraction.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
Okay, so we're going to see we're going to see
how long does it take to build a data center?
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Do you know that two to three years?
Speaker 3 (19:19):
They can build that in two to three years. Takes
us ten years to get a jet engine, So in
two to three years, we're going to see that peak
coming out. Let's talk about solar. Okay, Now, people say, okay,
solar kill a lot. How do you how do you
justify the infrastructure on a residential building without now, without rebates,
Let's just be honest, right, and and how can you
(19:40):
can you give us some I know you can. Can
you give us some idea on payback? How this works? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:43):
So payback? You know you're looking at without rebates, seven
to ten years for straight solar, Right, that's just going
to produce solar. You add batteries to it, it obviously
adds time to that. And batteries are more of a
preparation thing. You want to be prepared for those brownouts
as blackouts and then for the future those rate changes
right there, dynamic demand pricing, So you've got to consider
batteries in almost a separate category, right, Like the payback
(20:06):
is not there right now, but it's more of a
preparedness issue and getting it all while it's done right,
because it's obviously cheaper to install solar and batteries all
at once than to come back later and kind of
try to add them on. That's like building a house
versus adding additions, right, additions are always on your expense, right, Yeah, yeah,
So I think that's the big thing to think through
is your current payback, but really not even your current payback.
(20:27):
Is you know this system is going to last you
forty years, right, and so what does the future look
like forty years?
Speaker 3 (20:33):
That's not what And I just know that based on
my limited information, that's not what i've heard, right, I've
heard ten to fifteen. And I think you handled that
with the products you're.
Speaker 2 (20:46):
Using, right exactly. I think if you use cut rate
pricing products, then yeah, you're gonna get probably fifteen to twenty.
That's what I would tell people to plan for if
you're using premium products like we are. You know, forty
is of realistic number. I personally own solar panels that
are over thirty years old and they still produce power
every single day.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Does it diminish with time?
Speaker 2 (21:04):
It does diminish it's gotten better. So now the panels
we install diminish less than they used to. But you know,
look at you're forty, it's still It's not like there's
a light switch that switches off, right, They're still producing power,
just less and.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
You can repair them, right.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, But do you care at you're forty if it's
producing eighty percent of power it was brand new. No,
it's all free at that point, long paid for itself.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Do you see do you foresee a day when they're
going to try and tax solar or anything like.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
That, Like, yeah, you know in Wisconsin we have we
enjoy no property tax and no sales tax on solar,
which is a huge help. You know, at some point,
could the state law get changed to make that different. Sure,
certainly they could, but I don't see any momentum for
that right now. I think, you know, from a Wisconsin standpoint,
we need as much solar on the grid as we
(21:50):
can to stabilize the grid and to bring in more
of that productivity because fundamentally, the more solar it gets produced,
the less power plants that have to be built quickly
and kind of covering all this data center. So I
think we're an equilibrium point, right, Whereas.
Speaker 3 (22:05):
Do you think there's any chance that they will reinstate
the rebates?
Speaker 2 (22:08):
You know, that's a that's a federal thing. I think
the chances of it right now in our current political
environment are very slim, you know, I know you keep
an eye on this, Yeah, we watch it constantly. I
think it's very slim. I think in general, the whole
industry was surprised to see the rebate was abruptly canceled.
You know, we thought there may be some reduction or
(22:29):
you know, soft landing as they like to call them.
But to have a very abrupt ending is it's going
to create some shocks in the grid. It's going to
take two or three years for the shocks to kind
of appear, because, as we talked about, right, that's how
long it takes to build data centers. So we start,
we stop installing as much soler because there's not tax
credits to incentivize people, and then two or three years
from now, those data centers come online and by then,
(22:51):
you know, the snowball has gotten so big that you know,
to catch up is going to be really.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Do you see a day when you're wait went for
your company when you're waiting a year or two to
be to install solar.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
I mean if we still have the tax credit right now,
I would be sold out for all of next year.
Really yeah, we'd be a year looked out.
Speaker 3 (23:08):
And so that demand and as you said, there's going
to be companies who carry a lot of debt that
it abruptly stops and they're going to be best case scenario,
they're going to be in trouble. Worst case scenari they're
going to be out of business.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Right. Yeah, we have a historical present for this. California
changed their solar rules and basically ninety percent of the
industry disappeared in a six month period. And so what
that meant was just companies went bankrupt light right, left
and down the middle. And so people have all these
systems that now they have no one to do service,
no one to do warranty repair. And so the ones
(23:44):
that were smart that you know, we're cash flow managed,
debt free like us, are still around. So that's going
to be now proliferated throughout the whole country.
Speaker 3 (23:52):
That's going to create a higher demand and a higher
cost for your panels as well. Correct. Yeah, it's interesting
because I think we kind of forgot about, you know,
it kind of went away at one point. There are
all these windmills going up, there are all these solar
farms going up, and then everybody kind of said, well,
it doesn't really work, so we're not going to use it.
But that's not the case.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Well, you notice I didn't mention wind as an option
for building power plants. I personally am not a supporter
of wind. I don't think that it costs more to
produce and it's worth well, you know, basically, a windmill
hits its payback by the time you have to tear
it down and replace it, because they are life limited components,
and that's fundamentally different than solar, where you're not life limited.
They can just keep running.
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah. Yeah, so let's say somebody's thinking about this. I'm
actually thinking about it more now that I didn't. It
doesn't click, you know, you don't you don't put the
dominos in a row so many times.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Yeah, we're living life every day and put one foot
front the other head.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Yeah, and god forbid. You know, if one of the
ten wars that are going on happened now, now, that's
going to create a more of a demand for energy.
Right for sure. So if a person's thinking about this,
what are the steps?
Speaker 2 (24:58):
Yeah, the first steps reach out to us, go online,
what's up engineering dot com? Or what's upsolar dot com?
Give us a call two six, two four or five fives.
You're a zero one one, and we'll walk you through
the whole process.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
Yeah. You not what I like about you know, the
conversations that you and I have had in my interest
in this. You give solid numbers. This is how much
it's going to be, this is how long it's going
to take, and I think a lot of that. It's
not the case with a lot of company.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, and no pressure. You know. You you reached out
to us, We give you a quote. You might hear
back from us once to send Hey, we want to
follow up. But after that, if you decide not to
go forward, we're not going to keep sending you an
email every day and you know, calling you fourteen times
and it's just not what we do.
Speaker 3 (25:38):
And right now you're scheduling for spring.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
We're scheduling for spring now, yeah, spring and summer.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Well, Adam, As always, I appreciate you coming in and
sharing all this knowledge with us. Look forward to having
you on the show. Again, so thanks for spending some
time with the Guru. I know you're very busy. You're
in your work close today, so right appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Thanks for having us.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
All Right News Talk eleven thirty w I s N.
We will return again next week
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