September 25, 2025 • 23 mins
Former pro golfer and 1989 Ryder Cup participant Mark McCumber joins the program to dive into the narratives, trends, and predicitons surrounding this year's edition of the competition.
Mark as Played
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you're at Betpage Black this week, and you'll probably
hear this song at least once on the first tea
at the Ryder Cup as the Americans hosting the Europeans,
as the Europeans trying to win on away soil and
at least retain the Cup, while the Americans are trying
to avenge their loss in the Ryder Cup in twenty
(00:22):
twenty three in Rome, very ugly, ugly loss on foreign soil.
And the Ryder Cup pairings actually have just been released
for the morning session, as we'll take a look at
those with a guy leading off who isn't that surprising.
(00:43):
It'll be Bryson the Shambo peered with Justin Thomas and
John Rahm in Terrell Hatton. The Americans have largely dominated
this competition, but the Europeans have played very well basically
going back to nineteen eighty five. In fact, the last
time there was a tie in the Ryder Cup, this
(01:04):
guy right here was playing it in nineteen eighty nine.
He is ten time PGA Tour winner Mark McCumber. He
is a Players Champion, a member of the nineteen eighty
nine Ryder Cup team for the Americans, and you can
also hear him on the Serrix XMPGA Tour radio channel.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Mark, good afternoon, Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, happy to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
How you guys doing, Hey, we're doing great.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
We are less than twenty four hours away from the
Ryder Cup. It's always a fantastic weekend of golf. And
I want to touch on your Ryder Cup experience. You
played as a rookie in nineteen eighty nine. In fact,
there were five rookies on the American side, just one
on the European side. You're coming off home defeat to
the Europeans in America. What is your lasting memory of
(01:50):
the nineteen eighty nine Ryder Cup?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
There are many. I was a rookie. As far as
first Ryder Cup, I had played a World Cup with
Ben Crenshaw. You're a native hero and a great friend
of mine in Roald Melbourne. I'd played on other international teams,
but that was my first Rider Cup. But I wasn't
a rookie on tour. I was thirty six years old,
thirty seven, so I had a lot of experience that
(02:14):
and believe it or not, the PGA Tour School to
get your card probably the two most pressure packed events
you could play. And the Ryder Cup is very special,
and the year we played was extremely special because, as
you mentioned, we lost in eighty seven for the first
time I believe on American soul at Mirrorfield Jack Nichols's course,
we lost in eighty five at the Belfry where we
(02:34):
were playing in eighty nine, and we had never lost
to in a row. So it was a bunch of hype,
a serious amount of hype.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
As you mentioned the rookie aspect of it, there was
five rookie players on the American team, just one on
the European side. Was that a big talking point going
into the Belfry in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
To be honest with you, it wasn't. You know, I
would not have known now that you say that. I
think it was Zinger my first, Ken Greens first, Kalkoveki
is first. I don't know who. The fifth was, maybe Marcomera,
but our chip back. But it wasn't. It really was.
As a matter of fact, I was talking to somebody
the other day. I was sitting next to Freddy Couples
(03:15):
at the dinner, the gala dinner, I believe, two nights
before the event, and both captains get up to introduce
their teams and Ramond Floyd announces us as saying the
twelve best players in the world. If we kind of
smiled and we said we're pretty good. But Freddie Couples
(03:35):
looked to me it was his first Ryder Cup when
he was younger, and he kind of goed. He goes,
I think I see Sevy over there and Faldo over
there and loves him over there. So we went in
with a lot of confidence. But every player who's on
that team, whatever side, you're nervous, and it's fun to
be nervous. I embrace that. I only I love to
be nervous. Doesn't mean I It just meant I cared.
(03:56):
But it really wasn't a big talking point. Both teams
had great players. But now that you say it, maybe
that caught up was a bit Paynte Stewart was. I
think that was his rookie one too. But we had
an interesting Sunday, I know that, with a lot of
losses on the final hole, but then we won the
last three matches to get out of there with a tie,
which at the time we would not have been happy with.
(04:17):
But the way that they went it turned out to
be probably the best finish we could have asked.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
For Yeah, let's dive in a little bit deeper on
that Sunday because the Americans, you guys were training nine
to seven to Europeans on Sunday's single matches, And actually
it came down. The retaining point for the Europeans came
from Jose Maria Kenizaris. He defeated ken Green one up,
and I think ken Green missed about a five foot
putt to win that hole. But during your match, you
were the match behind ken Green. Was there any point
(04:45):
during that round where you thought, oh, oh, this may
come down to me to keep this thing alive.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I would have been happy if it did. But I
will be honest with you. I got it is a
team event. No hole, that last hole, that point is
no more important than the first point first natural Friday.
But I'm standing in the fairway when ken Green missed
and then ken Azeries made about a three or four
foot to three footer to seal the fourteen points for them,
(05:11):
and that meant they retain the cup, and it doesn't
mean you lost. And next to me in the fairway
on this incredibly hard all, I had two iron left,
you know, probably two twenty to a three tier green.
I'm playing with Gordon Brand. We're built five or six
hunderd for the day, and we're tied, and Raymond's next
to me, and they all charged the green, you know,
they all run on the green, jumping up and down.
(05:32):
I looked at Raymond, I said, have we just lost?
And he said, well, Mark, if you don't win and
Landy doesn't win and Curtis don't win, it doesn't win.
We've got to win these last three points to get
out of here with a tie. And I didn't say
it to him, but I said to myself, as I
liked golf history, and I'd read so many stories about
the Ryder Cup, and the books that are written always
(05:52):
say the winning point was by Sam Torrents and in
nineteen nineteen eighty five, and the winning point was by
even Darcy on the eighteenth greene at Mirfield eighty seven.
And I said, the last thing I want is the
losing point was by mart mc cumbers. The only time
I felt selfish, So that kind of motivated me just
(06:14):
to bear down and do what I could do. And
I ended up winning one up over Gordon Brand. Landy
came in beat Woosdom and this was Curtis Strange. When
he was Curtis Strange with full sales, I had had
the pleasure of finishing second to him, I guess just
a few months earlier at the US Open in New
(06:35):
York and Rochester at Oak Hill, and he was, you know,
he was in full form. He comes to the last
hole playing fal though who was you know, he and
Sevi their leader, solid as a rock. And on the
last hole he had a long iron in there and
we're all the green, you know, knowing he had to
win and if it didn't lip out, it almost did.
I mean, so he came into the whole one up,
(06:56):
only at the time ended up winning I think two
to zero. So it was kind kind of a disappointment,
but then a relief, both both emotions.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Did you say you had a two iron from the
fairway heading in the eighteen.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, yeah, Friday and Friday and our best ball, Calc
and I were playing Wuslam at Valdo and Calc and
I both hit driver Driver. We were one down and
we didn't get over the lake, I mean Asier hit
it in the water off. The team made a great
five to end up edging out Sevy on Sunday, Payne
Stewart hit it in the water off the tee, tried
(07:29):
to play it out of the water, left it in
the water, ended up not even finishing the hole. Calcavecchia
hit a thin driver off the fairway, or I believe
thin went into the water. Freddy Couples, Florida, after a
breathtaking drive flair to a little short iron or wedge
out right of the green, didn't get it up and down.
Kim Green hit the green, and Vinny three butted. So
(07:52):
it was a very hard hole. But just to give
you a little what I remember so clearly, I'm in
that ninth position, and as we're playing, and this was
a really unbelievably loud crowd. They were very fair to us,
but it was certainly home course. Like if you're playing,
you know, if Texas is playing, they're going to get
a bigger in Austin in college football, they get a
(08:12):
much bigger role than the other team. And so as
we're playing along, I wasn't paying attention closely to the war.
But we had taken a lead from a nine to seven,
Like you said, we had gotten the head. So it's
looking good and I hear these rars ahead of us
is I'm playing sixteen and seventeen. I'm thinking, wait a minute,
that means those matches went to eighteen. The best that
(08:36):
we could have been was one up going to eighteen.
Those rars aren't because Europe is losing eighteen. Then you know,
ten minutes later, another roar, ten minutes later, another roar,
and then I'm standing in the eighteenth fairway when they
went crazy when Kenizaries beat Ken Green. So it was
the dynamic was something I'd never experienced in golf because
you don't really quite have those kind of roars at
(08:57):
a normal tournament.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
So you were paying attention how the other matches were
going throughout the tournament or throughout the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I don't think I did on Day one or two.
I really didn't because I was really big in a
pre shot routine and staying in my zone. My rookie
year when I Windrell, I didn't look at the leaderboard
of the sixteenth one Sunday because I always felt like
I can't do anything about anybody else. I can't blieve defense.
I need to focus on full effort, full commitment to
(09:26):
every shot. Now late in a round. When you're trying
to win a tournament, I think it's probably valuable to
take a glance because if you've got a five shot
lead like I had at the Players Championship, I'm certainly
not going to go for the pin on seventeen on
the Island Green, I'm not going to challenge the lake
on eighteen. I'm going to play safe. But in the
Ryder Cup, you know, those roars kind of made me
(09:47):
what's happening? And I saw that lead shrink. Then I
saw them take a three up lead. As a matter
of fact, if I remember, Watson was in the tenth position,
but he was already done as he closed somebody out early.
He was done before I finished. So we actually won
the last We won the last four points.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, last last four to keep it. Fourteen fourteen.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
On Friday after and Saturday afternoon, you played with Tom
Kay you guys won two and one over kind of
Sarah's in but are longer. What goes into successfully having
a successful pairing? Is there something that worked well for
you that stood out or didn't work?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Did you talk to Raymond Floyd about, Hey, I want
to play with Tom or I want to play with calc.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
How does that work? Come Ryder Cup week.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
I had nothing to do with the pairings and I
won't give the name. But as we were, the pairings
are turned in as the group in the morning makes
the turn, so the captain has a little bit of
time after the last group makes a turn. They basic
allow on how guys were playing well. One of the
players didn't feel like he was dialed in, and Raymond said,
(10:52):
I'm going to put you and Mark out this afternoon.
And he said this was this is a Hall of
Famer and he said, basically, not word for word, but
I'm just not making enough puts right not to help.
I think you are to put somebody else. I thought
that was unbelievably brave, this unbelievable player. And so right
there Raymond says, okay, Mark, you and Tom were going
(11:15):
to go out. So some adjustments are made like that,
you know, or maybe a guy says I just don't
feel good or my elbows hurting, whatever it might be.
But that wasn't the original idea. But that pairing was
wonderful for me because you guys are you know, got
to be close to Tom Kite there in Austin he
is a Hall of Famer for a reason. I knew
(11:36):
that Tom was tested in Ryder Cup, tested period. As
a matter of fact, he won. He had won the
Players that year, the year after I did. We'd played
a lot of golf together. I knew that Tom was
known to be steady, dependable, fairways, greens, methodical. I was
a little more horsepower is not the right word, but
(11:57):
I drove it a little further. Uh. I knew that
we had such a good pairing that day, that Tom
was in the fair way and kind of let me go,
Mark go, and I drove it on the tenth green
there with a three wood made eagle. It was a
reachable par for with water. Because Tom, I knew it
was going to be a play. We teamed it really
really well. I had a day, you know, it was
special for me. I don't know. I think I made
(12:19):
five or six parties in an eagle and Tom was
right there. I never had to even flinch, worried about
if I made a mistake. So I love that pairing personally.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
You mentioned the European crowns were very fair.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
I was going to ask, you know, what was your
experience like being on the road and was there any
particular heckles that you remember that stood out maybe about
you or any other of your teammates in the nineteen
eighty nine Ryder Cup.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
You know, I'm really proud to tell you that I
don't remember one one thing unkind nothing. There'd be a
little bit of it. It wasn't a roar if you
missed a put or something, but there'd be a reaction.
It wasn't over the top. I didn't think. I've always
thought that European galleries, when you play in the Open,
they really understood what a good shot was. Our American
galleries are wonderful. I love playing in front of galleries
(13:04):
that means you're playing good and you're near the lead
of the tournament. But I think sometimes at our tournaments
that people go also for the social part that maybe
aren't devout golfers. You know, a couple of beers watching
having fun with their family or friends, and that's wonderful.
We're so grateful as golfers. But when I would play
an Open championship, whether it's an old gentleman walking with
(13:25):
his wife a kid, they were really interested in the golf.
The big hospitality suites didn't exist, and even though the
stands on the eighteenth hole here were gigantic, it was
almost like half of the football field buying the green.
There was no hospitality like you know, open bar type thing,
even though I'm sure there were a few peers. They
were consumed. The galleries were wonderful, louder for them, which
(13:46):
should be, but I didn't think they were disrespectful at all.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Visiting with Mark McCumber, ten time PGA Tour winner, one
of the players Championship and Ryter cover for the American
squad in nineteen eighty nine and golf analysts for PGA
Tour on series ex Sim. Okay, so since nineteen eighty three,
Europeans have won the Ryder Cup twelve times, Americans have
won six times and there's been one tie that of
course you were part of. Why do you think the
(14:10):
Europeans have been able to flip the momentum in this event?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
That's a great question. And they've dominated, Just to be honest,
they've dominated course the first fifty years. It wasn't a contest.
But then again, when Samuel Ryder in nineteen twenty seven
started this, it was more of a goodwill exhibition. There
was one hall of fame player that elected not to
play one year when he made the team back in
the seventies when he wanted to go hunting. So there
was none of the fever pits and there's nothing against him.
(14:36):
It's just I need some time off, so I'm not
going to play. So clearly it wasn't viewed like it
is now. I always wanted to play on a Ryder
Cup team. I missed a couple teams barely, but I
was glad to get on this one before my career
was done. But I always felt that the Europeans played
with a chip on their shoulder. You know, everything in
America is bigger, larger than life in so many ways,
(14:59):
and I think they felt like, you know, I might
be from Sweden, I might be from Northern Ireland. I
might be from Spain, and we're all speak different languages.
You know. When they play the European Tour, they have
to kind of they buddy up more, they eat together,
and the American players, I think tend to isolate a
little more. That doesn't mean they're not friends. It's not
(15:20):
what I'm saying. But there was so much money in
America and there is in golf everywhere that guys could
afford to have their entourage over the last twenty years
and kind of do what they want to do. So
I think the Europeans a little more of a brotherhood,
not that we don't have that, but a little more.
And I think it's like what you know, It's like,
(15:40):
why does an underdog come into Austin and play their
best game they want to knock off the top dog
Texas Longhorns. It's the same thing I think in Ryder
Cup history that has totally changed now. And do you
know what, it couldn't have happened in the middle eighties
at a better time if it was still the domination
you saw the first fifty years, who would even watch?
And now you hear analysts talking about this might be
(16:02):
the greatest sporting of it in all of sports. Who
would have believed that if you went back to the
seventies when Europe and only won a handful of times.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
There's been two narratives that have been pushed heavily this week.
One is that the Americans now playing for pay, Europeans
aren't because that means the Americans don't care about this tournament.
And then the second narrative is that the bet page.
New York crowds are going to be unruly in some
of the Europeans playing members and their families are might
be in danger. Are you buying into either of these narratives?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Well, the one about being in danger. If that's the case,
I think I think the what's that go go ahead?
I'm sorry, Yeah, I don't think they're in danger. If
they were, it's a sad state to where our world is.
But what's happened over the last two weeks and what's
happening in the world, I think things are out of
(16:54):
balance and upside down. So I certainly, I sincerely hope
nothing foolish happens. I've played in front of New York crowds.
I'll give you one true story. We're playing in a
tournament at Westchester Country Club back in the eighties. I'm
playing with Ed Snead, great player, and we're on I
think it was the thirteenth hole. It's a par three
at Westchester Country Club. We got a nice little gallery
(17:16):
all around the tea box at Snead tease it up,
takes it practically and hits the shot. The second the
ball leaves the club. A New York thing goes you
were in front of the tee, you were in front
of the t you got to play again, that's a penalty.
And we're looking at what And then someone said, well,
if he really was, why don't you say something before now?
Now I wanted to get him. We determined that he
(17:37):
was in front of the tea because a divot is
a short iron like an eight or nine er, and
the divot starts past the tee. We don't hit the
ball very often where the divot starts like that guy
probably did behind the ball. So it ended up being
a mute point. But there's a little bit of that,
I think in some of the New York galleries. I
watched my nephew play in the open. What was the
first one that wait but two to three or something
(18:00):
two thousand and three, and I heard heckling. Then they
were heckling Sergio Garcia at one of those opens at
Bethpage merse mercilessly. But I hope that doesn't happen. What
was the first part of that question.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
The Americans playing for pay? How do you think that's
going to impact the Ryder Cup, Because obviously you played
in nineteen eighty nine and now the Europeans aren't, and
we heard Luke Donald even mention it in the opening
ceremonies yesterday, taking a jab at the Americans who are
are paying for play or playing for pay.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
That's because he is a smart Northwestern graduate who used
that perfectly. And I didn't think it was over the top.
You know, we don't play for money or some comment.
I don't think it'll have anything to do whatsoever with
how the Americans play. I think it could be another
little bit of a charcole on the fire to give them,
(18:52):
like we'll show them again that chip. We're not getting anything,
and we're going to show them. It's about the competition.
But I really don't think no offense. I'm in the media,
like y'all are. I mean, everything nowadays hyperbolezed it's we
try to make something out of nothing just to have
people listen to us or read our papers or whatever
it might be. You see it. That's one thing I
(19:13):
don't like about coverage anymore. We don't really cover the
story as much as trying to make something sensational. But
I don't think. I really don't believe in my opinion,
that'll be an issue.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Is there something to the trend of Ryder Cup blowouts.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Eight of the last ten Ryder Cups have not been
particularly close.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Does that change here in twenty twenty five?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Who knows? You know, there's a proverb that says, to
the race, it doesn't always go to the swiftest. That's
why we watch sports. If the favored team always won,
why would we watch? There wouldn't be much interest. So
anything can happen. I will be shocked if it's a blowout.
It could be. As soon as I say that it
could be. I expect this to come down to the
(19:58):
last few matches on Sunday afternoon. Really, do you know
if you look at the teams Europe, I thought America
for so many years had an advantage, especially before it
became all of Europe in Spain, including Sevy and those
great Ola Babo guys that I respect and played a
lot of golf with. But I just I think if
you look at it, America has six players of the
(20:19):
twelve that have won a major or more. Europe has five.
Where is Europe weakening? Well, we used to always probably
be at the first sixth about even we felt we
were much deeper. And I do think there's no tour
in the world that even sniffs the PGA Tour for
depth of talent. A guy like Ben Griffin comes out
of you know what. Was he working as a mortgage
(20:39):
officer a couple of years ago, and I watched him
play when my son was playing the Mackenzie Tour and
he was a good player then and he stopped playing,
and now he's truly a spunky, fiery, confident player. I
think it's gonna have a great Ryder Cup. You never know,
but I expect him to. And then you look at
the European team. I mean some of their younger players.
(21:00):
Luvig Odberg, what an incredible cessation, didn't he I think
he won last week in Europe. I just think the
depth is equal on both teams, and that's why I
expect it. But then again, you know, momentum is a
big thing. You know. You look at a guy like
Victor Hobblin, one of the best iron players in the world.
You know, he's so hard on himself. He could have
a dynamic Ryder Cup and maybe he won't. I mean,
(21:23):
that could happen to any player, and through history it has.
Who would believe the Tiger Woods doesn't have a good
Ryder Cup record. I can't figure that one out, you know,
and some other Larry Nelson, who's being honored this week
well deservedly, was one of the best Ryder Cup records ever.
I think he's like nine three and one. Sometimes it's
(21:44):
the quiet guy who just kind of sticks in the
bubble and puts his head down, which is the way
you play golf, especially in a Ryder Cup. And I
even think the crowds who are going to be very loud,
I think that could be a distraction, believe it or
not for the Americans if they don't kind of get
in their own bubble.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, there's been some thought that, hey, if the Americans
come out slow out the gates and play poorly, and
with them being paid the New York crowds, you might
get a little unruly against their own own team. But
that's what makes the event so so much fun. David
Howell was on live from the Ryder Cup and he
was talking about he was a PGA tour or, he
was a rookie and not many people knew him, but
(22:19):
he took down Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson. It's what
makes the Ryder Cup so much fun. Mark thanks so
much for your time. We really appreciate it and looking
forward to your coverage on Serix xxM.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Well, thank you, I'm looking forward to watching it and
nice to be with you guys. All the best of
you guys, Thanks for including me.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Thanks Mark.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
That's Mark mccomber, a Ryder cupper of the nineteen eighty
nine American team. The last time the Ryder Cup ended
in a tie, it was nineteen eighty nine. If it
ends in a tie this weekend, the Europeans will retain
the Cup, just like they did in nineteen eighty nine.
We're gonna look at the Ryder Cup pairings for tomorrow.
Next hour, we're gonna hear from Roy McRoy Bryson to Shambo,
(22:57):
Randal Shambly. A lot of high being taken right now
at Bethpage Black. We're going to continue our two of
the Greig Waves show after this
If you're at Betpage Black this week, and you'll probably
hear this song at least once on the first tea
at the Ryder Cup as the Americans hosting the Europeans,
as the Europeans trying to win on away soil and
at least retain the Cup, while the Americans are trying
to avenge their loss in the Ryder Cup in twenty
(00:22):
twenty three in Rome, very ugly, ugly loss on foreign soil.
And the Ryder Cup pairings actually have just been released
for the morning session, as we'll take a look at
those with a guy leading off who isn't that surprising.
(00:43):
It'll be Bryson the Shambo peered with Justin Thomas and
John Rahm in Terrell Hatton. The Americans have largely dominated
this competition, but the Europeans have played very well basically
going back to nineteen eighty five. In fact, the last
time there was a tie in the Ryder Cup, this
(01:04):
guy right here was playing it in nineteen eighty nine.
He is ten time PGA Tour winner Mark McCumber. He
is a Players Champion, a member of the nineteen eighty
nine Ryder Cup team for the Americans, and you can
also hear him on the Serrix XMPGA Tour radio channel.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Mark, good afternoon, Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, happy to do it.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
How you guys doing, Hey, we're doing great.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
We are less than twenty four hours away from the
Ryder Cup. It's always a fantastic weekend of golf. And
I want to touch on your Ryder Cup experience. You
played as a rookie in nineteen eighty nine. In fact,
there were five rookies on the American side, just one
on the European side. You're coming off home defeat to
the Europeans in America. What is your lasting memory of
(01:50):
the nineteen eighty nine Ryder Cup?
Speaker 3 (01:53):
There are many. I was a rookie. As far as
first Ryder Cup, I had played a World Cup with
Ben Crenshaw. You're a native hero and a great friend
of mine in Roald Melbourne. I'd played on other international teams,
but that was my first Rider Cup. But I wasn't
a rookie on tour. I was thirty six years old,
thirty seven, so I had a lot of experience that
(02:14):
and believe it or not, the PGA Tour School to
get your card probably the two most pressure packed events
you could play. And the Ryder Cup is very special,
and the year we played was extremely special because, as
you mentioned, we lost in eighty seven for the first
time I believe on American soul at Mirrorfield Jack Nichols's course,
we lost in eighty five at the Belfry where we
(02:34):
were playing in eighty nine, and we had never lost
to in a row. So it was a bunch of hype,
a serious amount of hype.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
As you mentioned the rookie aspect of it, there was
five rookie players on the American team, just one on
the European side. Was that a big talking point going
into the Belfry in nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
To be honest with you, it wasn't. You know, I
would not have known now that you say that. I
think it was Zinger my first, Ken Greens first, Kalkoveki
is first. I don't know who. The fifth was, maybe Marcomera,
but our chip back. But it wasn't. It really was.
As a matter of fact, I was talking to somebody
the other day. I was sitting next to Freddy Couples
(03:15):
at the dinner, the gala dinner, I believe, two nights
before the event, and both captains get up to introduce
their teams and Ramond Floyd announces us as saying the
twelve best players in the world. If we kind of
smiled and we said we're pretty good. But Freddie Couples
(03:35):
looked to me it was his first Ryder Cup when
he was younger, and he kind of goed. He goes,
I think I see Sevy over there and Faldo over
there and loves him over there. So we went in
with a lot of confidence. But every player who's on
that team, whatever side, you're nervous, and it's fun to
be nervous. I embrace that. I only I love to
be nervous. Doesn't mean I It just meant I cared.
(03:56):
But it really wasn't a big talking point. Both teams
had great players. But now that you say it, maybe
that caught up was a bit Paynte Stewart was. I
think that was his rookie one too. But we had
an interesting Sunday, I know that, with a lot of
losses on the final hole, but then we won the
last three matches to get out of there with a tie,
which at the time we would not have been happy with.
(04:17):
But the way that they went it turned out to
be probably the best finish we could have asked.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
For Yeah, let's dive in a little bit deeper on
that Sunday because the Americans, you guys were training nine
to seven to Europeans on Sunday's single matches, And actually
it came down. The retaining point for the Europeans came
from Jose Maria Kenizaris. He defeated ken Green one up,
and I think ken Green missed about a five foot
putt to win that hole. But during your match, you
were the match behind ken Green. Was there any point
(04:45):
during that round where you thought, oh, oh, this may
come down to me to keep this thing alive.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
I would have been happy if it did. But I
will be honest with you. I got it is a
team event. No hole, that last hole, that point is
no more important than the first point first natural Friday.
But I'm standing in the fairway when ken Green missed
and then ken Azeries made about a three or four
foot to three footer to seal the fourteen points for them,
(05:11):
and that meant they retain the cup, and it doesn't
mean you lost. And next to me in the fairway
on this incredibly hard all, I had two iron left,
you know, probably two twenty to a three tier green.
I'm playing with Gordon Brand. We're built five or six
hunderd for the day, and we're tied, and Raymond's next
to me, and they all charged the green, you know,
they all run on the green, jumping up and down.
(05:32):
I looked at Raymond, I said, have we just lost?
And he said, well, Mark, if you don't win and
Landy doesn't win and Curtis don't win, it doesn't win.
We've got to win these last three points to get
out of here with a tie. And I didn't say
it to him, but I said to myself, as I
liked golf history, and I'd read so many stories about
the Ryder Cup, and the books that are written always
(05:52):
say the winning point was by Sam Torrents and in
nineteen nineteen eighty five, and the winning point was by
even Darcy on the eighteenth greene at Mirfield eighty seven.
And I said, the last thing I want is the
losing point was by mart mc cumbers. The only time
I felt selfish, So that kind of motivated me just
(06:14):
to bear down and do what I could do. And
I ended up winning one up over Gordon Brand. Landy
came in beat Woosdom and this was Curtis Strange. When
he was Curtis Strange with full sales, I had had
the pleasure of finishing second to him, I guess just
a few months earlier at the US Open in New
(06:35):
York and Rochester at Oak Hill, and he was, you know,
he was in full form. He comes to the last
hole playing fal though who was you know, he and
Sevi their leader, solid as a rock. And on the
last hole he had a long iron in there and
we're all the green, you know, knowing he had to
win and if it didn't lip out, it almost did.
I mean, so he came into the whole one up,
(06:56):
only at the time ended up winning I think two
to zero. So it was kind kind of a disappointment,
but then a relief, both both emotions.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Did you say you had a two iron from the
fairway heading in the eighteen.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Yeah, yeah, Friday and Friday and our best ball, Calc
and I were playing Wuslam at Valdo and Calc and
I both hit driver Driver. We were one down and
we didn't get over the lake, I mean Asier hit
it in the water off. The team made a great
five to end up edging out Sevy on Sunday, Payne
Stewart hit it in the water off the tee, tried
(07:29):
to play it out of the water, left it in
the water, ended up not even finishing the hole. Calcavecchia
hit a thin driver off the fairway, or I believe
thin went into the water. Freddy Couples, Florida, after a
breathtaking drive flair to a little short iron or wedge
out right of the green, didn't get it up and down.
Kim Green hit the green, and Vinny three butted. So
(07:52):
it was a very hard hole. But just to give
you a little what I remember so clearly, I'm in
that ninth position, and as we're playing, and this was
a really unbelievably loud crowd. They were very fair to us,
but it was certainly home course. Like if you're playing,
you know, if Texas is playing, they're going to get
a bigger in Austin in college football, they get a
(08:12):
much bigger role than the other team. And so as
we're playing along, I wasn't paying attention closely to the war.
But we had taken a lead from a nine to seven,
Like you said, we had gotten the head. So it's
looking good and I hear these rars ahead of us
is I'm playing sixteen and seventeen. I'm thinking, wait a minute,
that means those matches went to eighteen. The best that
(08:36):
we could have been was one up going to eighteen.
Those rars aren't because Europe is losing eighteen. Then you know,
ten minutes later, another roar, ten minutes later, another roar,
and then I'm standing in the eighteenth fairway when they
went crazy when Kenizaries beat Ken Green. So it was
the dynamic was something I'd never experienced in golf because
you don't really quite have those kind of roars at
(08:57):
a normal tournament.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
So you were paying attention how the other matches were
going throughout the tournament or throughout the Ryder Cup.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
Just a little bit.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I don't think I did on Day one or two.
I really didn't because I was really big in a
pre shot routine and staying in my zone. My rookie
year when I Windrell, I didn't look at the leaderboard
of the sixteenth one Sunday because I always felt like
I can't do anything about anybody else. I can't blieve defense.
I need to focus on full effort, full commitment to
(09:26):
every shot. Now late in a round. When you're trying
to win a tournament, I think it's probably valuable to
take a glance because if you've got a five shot
lead like I had at the Players Championship, I'm certainly
not going to go for the pin on seventeen on
the Island Green, I'm not going to challenge the lake
on eighteen. I'm going to play safe. But in the
Ryder Cup, you know, those roars kind of made me
(09:47):
what's happening? And I saw that lead shrink. Then I
saw them take a three up lead. As a matter
of fact, if I remember, Watson was in the tenth position,
but he was already done as he closed somebody out early.
He was done before I finished. So we actually won
the last We won the last four points.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
Yeah, last last four to keep it. Fourteen fourteen.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
On Friday after and Saturday afternoon, you played with Tom
Kay you guys won two and one over kind of
Sarah's in but are longer. What goes into successfully having
a successful pairing? Is there something that worked well for
you that stood out or didn't work?
Speaker 2 (10:24):
How does that work?
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Did you talk to Raymond Floyd about, Hey, I want
to play with Tom or I want to play with calc.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
How does that work? Come Ryder Cup week.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
I had nothing to do with the pairings and I
won't give the name. But as we were, the pairings
are turned in as the group in the morning makes
the turn, so the captain has a little bit of
time after the last group makes a turn. They basic
allow on how guys were playing well. One of the
players didn't feel like he was dialed in, and Raymond said,
(10:52):
I'm going to put you and Mark out this afternoon.
And he said this was this is a Hall of
Famer and he said, basically, not word for word, but
I'm just not making enough puts right not to help.
I think you are to put somebody else. I thought
that was unbelievably brave, this unbelievable player. And so right
there Raymond says, okay, Mark, you and Tom were going
(11:15):
to go out. So some adjustments are made like that,
you know, or maybe a guy says I just don't
feel good or my elbows hurting, whatever it might be.
But that wasn't the original idea. But that pairing was
wonderful for me because you guys are you know, got
to be close to Tom Kite there in Austin he
is a Hall of Famer for a reason. I knew
(11:36):
that Tom was tested in Ryder Cup, tested period. As
a matter of fact, he won. He had won the
Players that year, the year after I did. We'd played
a lot of golf together. I knew that Tom was
known to be steady, dependable, fairways, greens, methodical. I was
a little more horsepower is not the right word, but
(11:57):
I drove it a little further. Uh. I knew that
we had such a good pairing that day, that Tom
was in the fair way and kind of let me go,
Mark go, and I drove it on the tenth green
there with a three wood made eagle. It was a
reachable par for with water. Because Tom, I knew it
was going to be a play. We teamed it really
really well. I had a day, you know, it was
special for me. I don't know. I think I made
(12:19):
five or six parties in an eagle and Tom was
right there. I never had to even flinch, worried about
if I made a mistake. So I love that pairing personally.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
You mentioned the European crowns were very fair.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
I was going to ask, you know, what was your
experience like being on the road and was there any
particular heckles that you remember that stood out maybe about
you or any other of your teammates in the nineteen
eighty nine Ryder Cup.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
You know, I'm really proud to tell you that I
don't remember one one thing unkind nothing. There'd be a
little bit of it. It wasn't a roar if you
missed a put or something, but there'd be a reaction.
It wasn't over the top. I didn't think. I've always
thought that European galleries, when you play in the Open,
they really understood what a good shot was. Our American
galleries are wonderful. I love playing in front of galleries
(13:04):
that means you're playing good and you're near the lead
of the tournament. But I think sometimes at our tournaments
that people go also for the social part that maybe
aren't devout golfers. You know, a couple of beers watching
having fun with their family or friends, and that's wonderful.
We're so grateful as golfers. But when I would play
an Open championship, whether it's an old gentleman walking with
(13:25):
his wife a kid, they were really interested in the golf.
The big hospitality suites didn't exist, and even though the
stands on the eighteenth hole here were gigantic, it was
almost like half of the football field buying the green.
There was no hospitality like you know, open bar type thing,
even though I'm sure there were a few peers. They
were consumed. The galleries were wonderful, louder for them, which
(13:46):
should be, but I didn't think they were disrespectful at all.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Visiting with Mark McCumber, ten time PGA Tour winner, one
of the players Championship and Ryter cover for the American
squad in nineteen eighty nine and golf analysts for PGA
Tour on series ex Sim. Okay, so since nineteen eighty three,
Europeans have won the Ryder Cup twelve times, Americans have
won six times and there's been one tie that of
course you were part of. Why do you think the
(14:10):
Europeans have been able to flip the momentum in this event?
Speaker 3 (14:14):
That's a great question. And they've dominated, Just to be honest,
they've dominated course the first fifty years. It wasn't a contest.
But then again, when Samuel Ryder in nineteen twenty seven
started this, it was more of a goodwill exhibition. There
was one hall of fame player that elected not to
play one year when he made the team back in
the seventies when he wanted to go hunting. So there
was none of the fever pits and there's nothing against him.
(14:36):
It's just I need some time off, so I'm not
going to play. So clearly it wasn't viewed like it
is now. I always wanted to play on a Ryder
Cup team. I missed a couple teams barely, but I
was glad to get on this one before my career
was done. But I always felt that the Europeans played
with a chip on their shoulder. You know, everything in
America is bigger, larger than life in so many ways,
(14:59):
and I think they felt like, you know, I might
be from Sweden, I might be from Northern Ireland. I
might be from Spain, and we're all speak different languages.
You know. When they play the European Tour, they have
to kind of they buddy up more, they eat together,
and the American players, I think tend to isolate a
little more. That doesn't mean they're not friends. It's not
(15:20):
what I'm saying. But there was so much money in
America and there is in golf everywhere that guys could
afford to have their entourage over the last twenty years
and kind of do what they want to do. So
I think the Europeans a little more of a brotherhood,
not that we don't have that, but a little more.
And I think it's like what you know, It's like,
(15:40):
why does an underdog come into Austin and play their
best game they want to knock off the top dog
Texas Longhorns. It's the same thing I think in Ryder
Cup history that has totally changed now. And do you
know what, it couldn't have happened in the middle eighties
at a better time if it was still the domination
you saw the first fifty years, who would even watch?
And now you hear analysts talking about this might be
(16:02):
the greatest sporting of it in all of sports. Who
would have believed that if you went back to the
seventies when Europe and only won a handful of times.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
There's been two narratives that have been pushed heavily this week.
One is that the Americans now playing for pay, Europeans
aren't because that means the Americans don't care about this tournament.
And then the second narrative is that the bet page.
New York crowds are going to be unruly in some
of the Europeans playing members and their families are might
be in danger. Are you buying into either of these narratives?
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Well, the one about being in danger. If that's the case,
I think I think the what's that go go ahead?
I'm sorry, Yeah, I don't think they're in danger. If
they were, it's a sad state to where our world is.
But what's happened over the last two weeks and what's
happening in the world, I think things are out of
(16:54):
balance and upside down. So I certainly, I sincerely hope
nothing foolish happens. I've played in front of New York crowds.
I'll give you one true story. We're playing in a
tournament at Westchester Country Club back in the eighties. I'm
playing with Ed Snead, great player, and we're on I
think it was the thirteenth hole. It's a par three
at Westchester Country Club. We got a nice little gallery
(17:16):
all around the tea box at Snead tease it up,
takes it practically and hits the shot. The second the
ball leaves the club. A New York thing goes you
were in front of the tee, you were in front
of the t you got to play again, that's a penalty.
And we're looking at what And then someone said, well,
if he really was, why don't you say something before now?
Now I wanted to get him. We determined that he
(17:37):
was in front of the tea because a divot is
a short iron like an eight or nine er, and
the divot starts past the tee. We don't hit the
ball very often where the divot starts like that guy
probably did behind the ball. So it ended up being
a mute point. But there's a little bit of that,
I think in some of the New York galleries. I
watched my nephew play in the open. What was the
first one that wait but two to three or something
(18:00):
two thousand and three, and I heard heckling. Then they
were heckling Sergio Garcia at one of those opens at
Bethpage merse mercilessly. But I hope that doesn't happen. What
was the first part of that question.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
The Americans playing for pay? How do you think that's
going to impact the Ryder Cup, Because obviously you played
in nineteen eighty nine and now the Europeans aren't, and
we heard Luke Donald even mention it in the opening
ceremonies yesterday, taking a jab at the Americans who are
are paying for play or playing for pay.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
That's because he is a smart Northwestern graduate who used
that perfectly. And I didn't think it was over the top.
You know, we don't play for money or some comment.
I don't think it'll have anything to do whatsoever with
how the Americans play. I think it could be another
little bit of a charcole on the fire to give them,
(18:52):
like we'll show them again that chip. We're not getting anything,
and we're going to show them. It's about the competition.
But I really don't think no offense. I'm in the media,
like y'all are. I mean, everything nowadays hyperbolezed it's we
try to make something out of nothing just to have
people listen to us or read our papers or whatever
it might be. You see it. That's one thing I
(19:13):
don't like about coverage anymore. We don't really cover the
story as much as trying to make something sensational. But
I don't think. I really don't believe in my opinion,
that'll be an issue.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Is there something to the trend of Ryder Cup blowouts.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Eight of the last ten Ryder Cups have not been
particularly close.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Does that change here in twenty twenty five?
Speaker 3 (19:37):
Who knows? You know, there's a proverb that says, to
the race, it doesn't always go to the swiftest. That's
why we watch sports. If the favored team always won,
why would we watch? There wouldn't be much interest. So
anything can happen. I will be shocked if it's a blowout.
It could be. As soon as I say that it
could be. I expect this to come down to the
(19:58):
last few matches on Sunday afternoon. Really, do you know
if you look at the teams Europe, I thought America
for so many years had an advantage, especially before it
became all of Europe in Spain, including Sevy and those
great Ola Babo guys that I respect and played a
lot of golf with. But I just I think if
you look at it, America has six players of the
(20:19):
twelve that have won a major or more. Europe has five.
Where is Europe weakening? Well, we used to always probably
be at the first sixth about even we felt we
were much deeper. And I do think there's no tour
in the world that even sniffs the PGA Tour for
depth of talent. A guy like Ben Griffin comes out
of you know what. Was he working as a mortgage
(20:39):
officer a couple of years ago, and I watched him
play when my son was playing the Mackenzie Tour and
he was a good player then and he stopped playing,
and now he's truly a spunky, fiery, confident player. I
think it's gonna have a great Ryder Cup. You never know,
but I expect him to. And then you look at
the European team. I mean some of their younger players.
(21:00):
Luvig Odberg, what an incredible cessation, didn't he I think
he won last week in Europe. I just think the
depth is equal on both teams, and that's why I
expect it. But then again, you know, momentum is a
big thing. You know. You look at a guy like
Victor Hobblin, one of the best iron players in the world.
You know, he's so hard on himself. He could have
a dynamic Ryder Cup and maybe he won't. I mean,
(21:23):
that could happen to any player, and through history it has.
Who would believe the Tiger Woods doesn't have a good
Ryder Cup record. I can't figure that one out, you know,
and some other Larry Nelson, who's being honored this week
well deservedly, was one of the best Ryder Cup records ever.
I think he's like nine three and one. Sometimes it's
(21:44):
the quiet guy who just kind of sticks in the
bubble and puts his head down, which is the way
you play golf, especially in a Ryder Cup. And I
even think the crowds who are going to be very loud,
I think that could be a distraction, believe it or
not for the Americans if they don't kind of get
in their own bubble.
Speaker 1 (21:59):
Yeah, there's been some thought that, hey, if the Americans
come out slow out the gates and play poorly, and
with them being paid the New York crowds, you might
get a little unruly against their own own team. But
that's what makes the event so so much fun. David
Howell was on live from the Ryder Cup and he
was talking about he was a PGA tour or, he
was a rookie and not many people knew him, but
(22:19):
he took down Tiger Woods and Phil Mickelson. It's what
makes the Ryder Cup so much fun. Mark thanks so
much for your time. We really appreciate it and looking
forward to your coverage on Serix xxM.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Well, thank you, I'm looking forward to watching it and
nice to be with you guys. All the best of
you guys, Thanks for including me.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Thanks Mark.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
That's Mark mccomber, a Ryder cupper of the nineteen eighty
nine American team. The last time the Ryder Cup ended
in a tie, it was nineteen eighty nine. If it
ends in a tie this weekend, the Europeans will retain
the Cup, just like they did in nineteen eighty nine.
We're gonna look at the Ryder Cup pairings for tomorrow.
Next hour, we're gonna hear from Roy McRoy Bryson to Shambo,
(22:57):
Randal Shambly. A lot of high being taken right now
at Bethpage Black. We're going to continue our two of
the Greig Waves show after this
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