Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
On a yacht Rock Wednesday by Blues Image one hit
Wonder from the seventies. Maybe Team USA will be telling
Keik and Bradley ride Captain Ryde this week at the
Ryder Cup at Bethpage, Black and we continue our twenty
twenty five Ryder Cup preview now visiting with golf reporter
(00:21):
and author Jeff Chakraford from Jeff Chakrafer dot com. Of course,
you can read his work with the Quadrilateral Newsletter and
listen to him on the mckeller podcast. Greeting us from Bethpage,
New York. Good afternoon, Jeff. How you doing.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I'm doing well, Cameron.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
It's great to talk to you again, and we're all
very excited about the big matches coming up.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
I appreciate you taking some time out of your busy schedule.
How many Ryder Cups have you covered up until this point?
What number is this for you? Just my fifth? Just
your expise.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
I did Rome. I did Rome from home.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I went to Rome a few weeks before the matches,
saw the course, ate a love, great food, I did
a lot of great sight seeing and then I watched
it from home and I was very happy I did that.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
I got the best of both worlds. I saw all
the golf I needed a little early in the morning
on the West coast. But and Rome is an amazing,
amazing city that I would have been very unhappy if
I didn't enjoy properly.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
So you started covering after the miracle at my Dina.
Is that correct? That is correct?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Okay, okay, we'll come back to that, and we'll come
back to your coverage, Bok, because I want to get
a story or a little nugget from your Ryder Cup
experience covering it as a media member. But the last
five Righter Cups, the margin of victory has been five points,
ten points, seven points, six points, and five points since
that miracle at Madona.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Heading in the twenty twenty five.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
This week, bethpage Black, do you think we're headed towards
a similar result with the Americans running away with it
this week?
Speaker 2 (01:55):
You know, I don't, But it just it's been really
strange how how we've had some of these blowouts.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
But I don't. I just don't feel like this one's
gonna be that.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
There's just too much, too many good players in form
on both sides, and I think the Europeans are I
would say, a little deeper and more experienced and bonded
and all that stuff, which does I think help them
on on enemy soil, And why I.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Don't think they will.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
They will be blown out like they were at Whistling Straits,
which was just.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
You know, it just wasn't wasn't close, And.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
They also didn't have a few people who weren't playing
so great, and Padrick Merrington was dealt to a rough
hand at that one. And so I'm I'm, I really
am it's not just wishful thinking.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I really do think we'll have a close one.
Speaker 1 (02:48):
You mentioned Whistling Straight that was a mega blowout for
the Americans, and it kind of felt like a maybe
a turning point, but maybe a period of transition for
the European team. A lot of younger players on that squad,
and now they have developed and coming into this this year.
I mean, loved Aberg wasn't even on the team yet
(03:09):
and he's turning into a fantastic golfer. Of course from
from Texas Tech, going to be a key player on
this team. You mentioned Roy McRoy as well, but on
the American side, of course, Scottie Scheffler just won this
past week. Ben Griffin finishing second. It feels like we're
entering the Ryder Cup with almost both teams kind of
peaking at the right time.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Yeah, which was a big change.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
The Americans tend to flame out after the tour championship, understandably.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
They've played a lot of golf in hot weather.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
It's been a long year and they shut it down,
and there's only so long you can stay focused. And
this time they y'all turned up except Sanderschoffle and Bryson
d Chambeau who's not eligible at the NAPA event, and
everybody made the cut, and as you noted, a few
guys played really well, so they also just seem like
(04:00):
they're getting along well. They had some stuff off the course.
Keegan Brandley was there watching the golf, not playing. We've
had some captains in the past who are supposedly monitoring
their players and they're playing in the tournament really so
it's little stuff like that. I feel like Hegan's really
turned out to be very disappointingly good at this.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
You know, we love some of.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
This American drama that adds to the fun, and he
seems like he's balancing kind of gut instincts common sense
with some of the analytics, which are I think severely overrated,
but in the context of match play and Ryder Cup,
so he is so far, so good in terms of
(04:44):
just having everybody on the same page. And I think
the only downside is that he's not in these matches,
and that's he's somebody it's not fun.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
To play against in match play.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
He just is very fiery and persistent and he emotional
and he's a great match play golfer. Should have been
picked for the last matches.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
So I think that's the only downside so far of
his captaincy is that he's actually not gonna be hitting shots,
and it was It's been a very interesting captaincy because
of course Jet because he was shocked when he was
chosen after missing the Ryder Cup team in twenty twenty three.
If you have watched Full Swing, you have seen the
episode about Keegan getting the phone call from captain Zach
(05:26):
Johnson and all of that, and leading up to the
Ryder Cup, it felt like all of the conversation on
the American side of the Ryder Cup was about their captain,
which is pretty unique, right, Usually it's about the players,
but for the American side, he was Keegan Bradley, and
I'm hearing some theories now that maybe it's possibly strategic
on Keegan's behalf to keep all the focus on him
(05:49):
and not on the team. And how Bryson's gonna mesh
with with Cam Young or you know the live PJ
tour thing, how you kind of mentioned a little bit,
How do you think Keegan's done so far handling this cantency,
because there's a strong, strong case that he could be
playing in the Ryder Cup this year.
Speaker 3 (06:08):
Yeah, No, I believe.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
He's really handled it way better than anybody could have imagined,
and that that's not a mean it's just a tough job,
and there's there's there's strange dynamics in play. Certainly last
time in Rome, Zach Johnson was dealt a ridiculous hand
with a couple of guys whining and moaning about pay
and not coming on the team trip, and you know,
(06:33):
there's just only so much a captain can do when
you're when you're dealing with some of these kind of
egomaniacal situations. It turned out that they channeled some of
that pretty well onto the course. Some of it got
a little bit ugly, but it didn't necessarily affect the
golf of those the people who were wanting to be paid.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
Well, now this time they're being paid.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
And I guess the good news for Keegan is, you know,
there really hasn't been a whole lot of focus on
the fact that the US is being paid and.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
The Europeans are not.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
And we'll just Yeah, the thing I'm most anxious to
see is what happens when these Beth Page fans are
watching the US guys maybe losing certain especially the people
who wanted money, and how will they treat them? Will
they treat them like like fellow Americans or will they
(07:28):
will they heckle them and turn on them a little bit.
Speaker 3 (07:30):
I think it's a possibility.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
And it's something that it's It's going to make it
fascinating to watch, as if it wasn't already interesting enough
with just good, great quality match play on a super
golf course, playing a ben Page Black course, a very
familiar golf courses hosted two PGAs a US Open, the
first time hosting the Ryder Cup. What are your impressions
(07:54):
of how the course possibly will look and be set
up by Keithon Bradley and the Americans this week.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
Well, it's basically comes down to fairway. With the Europeans
now like to have narrower fairways and high rough They
feel they have analytics that favor them on that front
and that has worked in France and Rome.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
The US wants a little wider fairway.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
They believe they're guys hitting driver and not not hacking
out of rough is a good thing. So that's that's
The setup at Bethpage is going to be a little
different than it has been for the the other majors,
but it's still a long, tough golf course with pretty
simple greens. Really, that's the one thing I think that
it will be a factor that I have no idea
(08:42):
how it will impact play, but it's something we're going
to be watching. It just doesn't have a lot of
crazy long pots with huge break and I honestly don't
know who that favors, but generally I would say that's
probably good for the US side. Yeah, they're gonna they're
gonna set it up a certain way, but you know,
(09:03):
the PGA of America handles it.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Uh, I don't know how. I don't get a sense
that Keegan's really gotten that. In the weeds on it,
uh again, not trying to overthink it too much, which
is which I think is why he's done a good
job today. Looking at the twenty nineteen PGA, the the
top five four the top five finishers were Americans, including
(09:25):
Patrick Cantley, Matt Wallace the only one not from America
in the top five. So it did seem the favor
American golfers. Of course, that was six years ago. And hey,
through the top four players, Brooks Koepka, Dustin Johnson, Jordan
sped not on the American Ryder Cup team. I think
it's a little bit surprising, maybe not so much about DJ,
but for the Americans not to have Brooks Kopka or
(09:48):
Jordan's beef this year.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
We'll see how it shakes up.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Yeah, neither one of them really gave the captain any
reason to pick them, and that that and I think
I think they both acknowledge that.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I'm a little surprised Jordan Spieth isn't.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
There as a as a vice captain, just because he's
he's been such a big part of.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
This well, and he and he picked he was on
the committee, he was Bradley.
Speaker 2 (10:14):
But yeah, so, but no, they just needed to play
better and they and they didn't. And I'm more bullish
on speF having a resurgence than I am Brooks. I
just I just well, we'll see what happens when his
contracts up with Live. But I think it's just taken
an edge off his game being on, you know, playing
(10:35):
fifty four all events on on not the best golf
courses in the world. Previewing the Rider Cup with Jeff
SHAGRAFFERD Okay. There's a couple theories notions about this Ryder
Cup and in the Ryder Cup history, and I want
to get your thoughts in them. One is that the
Americans play for themselves, play for pride, pay for money,
of course, now a big deal. In the Europeans, they
(10:57):
you know, they play for their country and play for
each other. Is that the vibe that you get when
you've covered the Ryder Cups and you've been around it
in this season or is it just just good fodder
for when the Americans get blown out on the road
every time?
Speaker 3 (11:14):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (11:14):
No, Yeah, there's no question that the US guys seem
to struggle more with a team environment, and it makes sense.
Speaker 3 (11:22):
It's an individual sport.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It's part of what we love about the Ryder Cup,
that they're taken out of their normal element and placed
in this situation, and the Europeans seem to handle it better.
Of course, everybody's theorized, is it because they play a
few more team events, you know, when they're younger national teams, foursomes.
Speaker 3 (11:44):
I think there's some of that. I think that.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
I mean, they really don't play the European Tour and
Bond as a group anymore that used to be part
of it. A lot of the European guys are full
fledged Americans essentially now, but they do seem to get
on the same page when it comes to the Ryder Cup.
They certainly did in Rome and the US certainly did not.
And and you know, the captain takes a lot of
(12:10):
blame for that.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And I don't know if.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
It's always very if that's fair, because you're just dealing
with some big personalities who aren't used to that situation.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
And they don't adjust well for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Maybe they didn't play a Walker Cup, or they didn't
play a Junior Rider Cup or something they just didn't
get it, or maybe there's just so much pressure that
they don't know what else to do because it is
a high pressure situation golf stuff, and then when you're
you're feeling a burden to to, you know, help your
partner out, and you're not used to that, it can
make you do strange things. So it feels like this
(12:46):
American team is on the same page much more, which
will be helpful. And but the Europeans seem to have
their you know, they have everybody back except Nikolai Holgard
and it's his brother in his place, so they seem
to be getting along well and had a great pre
Ryder Cup trip to Bethpage all the stuff you kind
(13:06):
of look for.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
There's no drama there right now.
Speaker 1 (13:09):
Talking with Jeff Chakraford live from Bethpage Black. Will continue
this conversation next hour as The Way Show rolls on
on a yacht rock. Wednesday, Let's continue our conversation with
Jeff Chakraford from Jeff Chakrafer dot com, golf author in porter.
Check out his work at the Quadrill Newsletter, the best
(13:31):
golf newsletter in the business, and he's been busy this
week pre in the twenty twenty five Ryder Cup at
Bethpage Black that will tee off on Friday as the
Americans as Team USA tries to avenge their loss to
the Europeans in Rome two years ago, and Jeff, let's
pick back up with the Europeans and their philosophy, their
(13:55):
style that has helped them really turn the momentum in
this competition. I think it was EDWARDO Molinari who he
mentioned on the No Laying Up podcast for Chris Solomon,
and he was talking about I think he's the assistant
vice captain, right, I know, he's in charge.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Of the analytics for the analytics guru.
Speaker 1 (14:14):
Yes, brother of Francisco Molinari, of course, and he was
talking about how Deep World Tour Thursdays and Fridays you
would see European players be paired together, not so much
to watch their game, but to you know, learn about
each other, and they would do dinners and stuff. I
guess it's pretty tough probably for Keegan to to get
bryceon and Patrick Can'tley to sit down for dinner, you know,
(14:34):
during the US Open week, but it kind of speaks
to the camaraderie the Europeans seem to have over the Americans.
You know, we're hearing reports that the Europeans are you know,
testing out VR headsets and playing you know, playing round
so they get accustomed to the Beth Page crowds. Yeah,
they're they're they're trying everything and they they do manage
(14:57):
to think up a lot of fun stuff and I
and it always seems like they do it without over
over analyzing the situation, which is I think part of
the charm. And you always feel like when we bring
in analytics and different things, Americans tend to.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
Maybe mess it up a little bit more.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Uh So, yeah, yeah, it's a but it's it's yeah,
it's just it's a tough job being the captain trying
to balance these things.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And that's why I've.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
Been impressed with how Keegan's uh you have just been
been a little bit different than some of our recent
American captains on on where you sense there's just a
good balance there. So after the last butt whooping on
the European side, you know, the Americans were asked, you know,
why didn't you guys, you know, win play well? And
I think it was Jordan' speed that just said, well,
(15:46):
they just made more putts, they they chip better, they
they played better than us, and some people agreat some
people didn't like it. Is it possible Jeff, that you know,
maybe the Ryder Cup is just decided by when the
team's best player doesn't play well. Because you look back
to to Rome Scottie Scheffler only you know, only earned
one point for the Americans. You look back to Whistling Straits,
(16:09):
Roy McRoy, Victor Hovlin, two of the best players on
the team outside of John Rahm, only one one point
eight one point eat. Is it possible that when the
when your best player doesn't play well, that you're gonna lose, Well, that's.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Certainly part of it. But the beauty of the format
is that you you have depth that matters. Uh I
guess where you know where we enjoyed the drama of
the Ryder Cup is when you have the best player
in the world or one of.
Speaker 3 (16:37):
The top five and they aren't sharp.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
It puts the captain in a brutal spot where they
probably should bench them for a match or two. And
that's where the big egos and the name and the
ranking getting in in the way. And you have somebody
who's playing well and you you you sit them and you.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
Go, oh, that's kind of a that's a questionable move.
And and that's what I love about the Ryder Cup
format is that you do have to sit people and
you have to watch that first morning session and make
a decision about the afternoon. It's not set in stone
until the the you know, midway through the or late
in the session. And that's that is the fun of it,
(17:19):
you know some of these events. I was just the
Walker Cup. Well they set both sessions for for the
day ahead of time.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well that's no fun.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
Yeah, you want to you want to be able to
see who's doing what, and that's where when people roll,
you say, well the captain doesn't really matter. No, actually
it really matters in the Ryder Cup because you have
to make a decision on the spot. And I think
that's ultimately why Keegan decided not to play, because you
do need to watch that morning play. Although I think
(17:47):
there was a case that he would never have played
those two morning foursome sessions.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
He would have watched and then he could have gone
out and played.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
But he seems very comfortable in the decision he made
and he's he's in luck that it looks like everybody's
in decent to outstanding form.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
For his team.
Speaker 1 (18:05):
There always seems to be an overreaction I think on
who is the twelfth person chosen as if they're going
to play all five matches and be the reason why
they win or lose. I think we saw it with
Justin Thomas in Rome and people blaming him. They're not
the reason. JT's not the reason why Americans lost that
and TEK and Bradley, if he played or did not play,
would not have been the reason why base his play
(18:26):
on the course would have been the reason why they
would have won or have lost the event.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Yeah, I mean you can. That's another beauty of the
Ryder Cup.
Speaker 3 (18:36):
You can.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
You can pick on these things, but there it's very
rare that it comes down to one decision that was
made or one player.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
And that's the beauty of it that you have.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
All these different factors and it does give us something
to tomul and consider. But uh, and some of that
may stem also from the past. Well, we used to
be two captains picks, and there were there were caps
who made picks on both sides of the of the
matches that didn't pan out very well. And now when
(19:08):
there's six picks, it's a little harder to seize on
those two selections. Not that that ever stops people can,
but and I think that is helpful at least for
the captains to have six, and if nothing else, it
kind of diffuses some of that blame game.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
Let's pick on one more thing.
Speaker 1 (19:28):
If this is another runaway victory for the home side
as the last five of been, do you foresee a
change in the format. Would you be open to a
format change? I wouldn't now I think it's a yeah.
The format is pretty brilliant. The only the only thing
that I don't like, and this has nothing to do
with your question of a blowout or not, but I
(19:52):
wish that they would adopt the draft style like the
President's Cup has, so for those who aren't familiar the
Ryder Cup, it's a it's a blind draw. The captain
writes out twelve names for Sunday singles and puts it
in an envelope and it's submitted.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And in the President's Cup they do it more like
a fantasy draft, where you you name a name and
the other captain goes, and then that other captain then
names the name and then you match that and it
helps set up some fun fun matches. I mean, all
the foursomes four ball matches are gonna be great no
matter what.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
But the singles, it would be it would be really
fun to see.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, this year in particular, be fun to see McElroy
versus Scheffler, for instance.
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And you know you may get Schofle.
Speaker 2 (20:41):
Versus mckelroy, Wells Anders not the player he was last
year at the moment, So that kind of thing is
that's more of a drama thing than anything else. But
I think the format is just a genius. It works
because you get the element of do you bench people
or not. It's just the right amount of golf. The
four balls goes on a little too long, but that's
(21:02):
a slow play issue less than a format issue. And
then I just love it that everybody does play on
Sunday and singles.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
I think that's fantastic.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
Do you have a prediction? I'm putting on the spot here?
Do you the prediction? Do you do predictions? What's your
general feeling for how hew this weekend will go? Because
it sounds like you're expecting a much closer Ryder Cup
than a lot of other people. Yeah, and you know
you have to remember too, the last Ryder Cup at
Rome was technically very close in that you know, it
(21:33):
could have gone a few ways.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
The last day the walker Cup. I was just out.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It was seventeen to nine. Well on Sunday in the singles,
now I would have taken, you know, something significant. But
there are a lot of matches that were close and
it could have all flipped very quickly. So people sees
on the final score, So I think the US will
win by three or four points, but just a guess.
But I but I again, three or four points. I
(22:00):
believe it's going to come down to the last few
matches and be interesting. But yeah, people sometimes sees on
those scores and they forget that there's some matches there
that could flip either way and flip the whole thing.
And that was certainly the case at Rome. I was
just reviewing and again for some stuff I was writing,
and it was fascinating to me how that last day
(22:22):
could have flipped. I don't think it would have because
the crowd was so on Europe's side, but it was
surprising to be reminded that the US was not out
of it until fairly late in the day.
Speaker 3 (22:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:34):
I think it was really Tommy Fleetwood's match that kind
of really changed or not maybe not changed, but really
solidified Europe's victory, and that came pretty late in the day,
so Sundays has provided some great viewing. Okay mentioned the
Walker Cup, the fiftieth Walker Cup played the Cypress Point
Golf Club. Tommy Morrison, the ut senior part of the
(22:54):
number one ranked team in the country for John Field's
fantastic group of golfers to just has a real good
shot of winning it all this season. Again, what was
your takeaways from from Tommy Morrison? He won two matches
I think went two and one two weeks ago at
the Walker Cup six point seven. He offered nothing but
great things about him as a human being and he's
(23:16):
a fantastic golfer and should have a really bright future
in this game. Yeah, he represented Texas well. I watched
all of two of his matches and he played some
sensational golf, especially in the singles match where he beat
my friend Nile Shiels Donegan three and two, and it
(23:36):
was a it was just an incredible performance.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
He played so well.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
Nile was starting to kind of get back into the
match and Tommy made a long plot on the fourteenth
hole that was a that was just a killer, and
he was otherwise he just really had very few flaws
in his game, played some amazing shots played with Jackson Coven,
the number one amateur in the world, and an amazing
opening session match, so it was it was a blast
(24:02):
to watch.
Speaker 3 (24:03):
It's a it's an incredible event. It's you know, they.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
Hate this when we call it this, but it is
a little it's a junior Ryder Cup in a sense,
even though it's Great Britain and Ireland instead of all
of Europe, which is a whole other topic. But he he, uh,
he impressed me. That was the first time I'd gotten
a chance to watch him. I met him at the
Open Championship that he qualified for last year and I
was I was very impressed with his game. It was
(24:26):
it was quite fun for everybody though. In his opening
matches cameraon, he played against a young guy named Connor
Graham from Great Britain in Ireland who's maybe five seven
and he was probably the longest hitter there and he
outdrove Tommy if they were on an alternate shot for him,
they were, they were.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Teen off on the same hall.
Speaker 2 (24:47):
He he handily out drove Tommy quite a bit.
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Which had to be.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
Eye opening because we had quit you know, size tall
guy with with distance and uh, here was this this
little guy who just absolutely kills them.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
I mean he hit one drive three seventy one, which
is nuts.
Speaker 1 (25:05):
So yeah, a little help, a little role, but it
was it was an amazing match.
Speaker 2 (25:10):
We knew it was gonna be a great match. It
was the first one out and it lived up to
the billing, so it was. It was a lot of
fun to watch him. And yeah, coach Fields was out
there and it's I'm sure he's gonna have another great
team this year.
Speaker 3 (25:20):
It looks like, so good for them.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Jeff, as always appreciate your time, looking forward to reading
your covers of the Ryder Cup, the Quadra Lotter. I'm
not just saying this because you're you're on the show today.
I always look forward to your major coverage of the
major championships and the way you break down the courses
and the holes, especially the Cyprus Point, and you had
a breakdown a lot of that that golf course, and
it makes a viewing even more fun because you can
(25:44):
look at a hole that you may not get the
background information on from the TV broadcast, but you write
about it.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
And also I really enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
So Jeff Shakuefford dot Com, The Quadrilateral Newsletter and the
mckeller Golf Podcast. Looking forward to reading and listening to
your work from this week. All right, Thanks Karon. He
is Jeff Chakraford. Check out his stuff Jeff Chakrafer dot
com and subscribe to the Quadriledal Newsletter. In the Mackiller
podcast bringing you all coverage from the twenty twenty five
(26:14):
Ryder Cup, we'll continue our Ryder Cup preview tomorrow as
we have a special guest, a former Ryder Cupper from
the American side. We'll be joining us on tomorrow's show.
We'll be back to continue the final hour here of
the Craigway Show on a yacht Rock Wednesday,