November 6, 2025 • 22 mins
For the final time of the 2025 MLB season, White Sox Director of Player Personnel Gene Watson joins the show.
Gene and Craig discuss whether the World Series between LA and Toronto was the best of all time and look ahead to some of the stories to watch this offseason.
Gene and Craig discuss whether the World Series between LA and Toronto was the best of all time and look ahead to some of the stories to watch this offseason.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Here on this Thursday afternoon, and it has been our
custom over the past several years, I think, like twenty years,
to win the baseball season ends following the World Series,
to visit with their good friend Jean Watson from the
front office of the Chicago White Sox, and to get
a recap not only of the World Series, but what's
(00:22):
to come in the offseason and what's to go for Gino,
We've been doing this a long time, so long before
you were with the White Sox or the Angels, or
the Royals or the I mean, we could go back aways,
couldn't we.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It has been a long time, my friend, and a
lot of fun along the way.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Speaking of a lot of fun, I want to get
your opinion on this now. First of all, I'm going
to give Genas flowers. He predicted initially the Dodgers to
win the World Series in six games over Toronto. When
Toronto got up three to two, Gino doubled down, He
dug in his heels, and he said, the Dodgers going
to find a way to win Game six, and they're
going to find a way to win Game seven and
win this World Series. I don't I think any more
(01:00):
prophetic words could have been said than to use the
words find a way, which is what they ultimately did.
But what I want to ask you about our good friend.
Tim Kirchen with ESPN was referring to an article written
by Steve Rushing, the former writer from Sports Illustrated, describing
that ninety one World Series between the Twins and the Braves,
(01:24):
and he at the end of him he's talking about
he said, let us call this World series what it
is now while at seven games to ring in our ears,
the greatest of us ever played. And then Tim Kirchin
comes back in and says, with apologies to nineteen ninety one,
the Los Angeles Dodgers in Toronto Blue Jays just finished
the greatest World Series. Not because all the games were great,
(01:44):
some weren't, all were flawed, but all were marvelously fun,
interesting and entertaining. It was the greatest World Series because
of its compelling story lines, some of which were impossible
to believe. An eighteen inning game and a historic pitching
performance by a twenty two year old, the first pinch
hit Grand Slam in.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
World Series history, the first World.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Series game to begin with back to back home runs,
the first game ending seven to four double play in
World Series history. It featured a bizarre three pitch opera
from a pitcher who hadn't worked in relief in seven years,
the final Major League game for the greatest pitcher of
this era, and a Game seven for the Ages for
all ages, a masterpiece featuring an unforgettable iron Man pitching
(02:27):
performance that we might never see again. Tim Kirchin always
had away with words. But I'll ask you, Gino, was
this the greatest World Series ever played?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
It's not even close.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And really, when you start with the fact that it
was such a global series, I mean, the viewership around
the world was as high as it's ever been for
any series. When you talk about the Hall of famers,
you know future and the ones that are just coming
into their career that will be Hall of famers, that
(02:58):
was a big part of it.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
But just you know, two.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Teams, it was just a fifteen round heavyweight boxing match.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
And truly, like just when you thought it was over, something.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Would happen and the games just kept going and it
was truly. I don't typically rewatch baseball games. I've watched
Game seven five or six times since it ended, and
it's just when you think about all the little things
that happened that could have swung that game either way.
It was truly one of the best games in the
(03:31):
best series we've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
When we last visited, it was after game five, and
you talked about how great Treya Savage had been and
how great the Jays had been and jumping to that
three to two lead, and then that's when you said
you still believe the Dodgers would find and winning win
game six and seven. So let me get your thoughts
on a couple of things for those two games six
and seven. Let me start, first of all, a Yama Moto,
(03:55):
of course, thinking through ninety six pitches in that he
pitches really well in game six, but it took that
and Tim Kirchin mentioned it highly unusual seven to four
double play to end the game. And and sometimes games
are marked by great plays, and sometimes they're marked by mistakes.
And sometimes the answer both can be true. Addison Barger
(04:17):
a little too far away from the bag and got
back uh and and and and when you get to
those high pressure games, we tend to see some of boat,
don't we. Great performances, great uh plays made, and then
also some mistakes made.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, I think I think it begins with ball off
the bat. I don't think there's a person in the
world that didn't think that that was a base hit.
What Kiki Hernandez did, his first step, his jump on
that baseball was absolutely unbelievable, but not just catching the ball,
but but the momentum that he had moving forward to
make that accurate throw on the run.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
And Addison Barger's.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Young player, and you know, young players are gonna make mistakes,
and you know, he probably felt like everybody else at
that ball was down and he wanted to make sure
he at least took a hard turn around third base.
But just a flawless effort by Kiki Hernandez to come
in and get that first step, make to catch and.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Make the throw on the run to secure the win.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
All right, let's go to Game seven now, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
You know it had so much drama in what was
going on earlier. The only I think the only and
you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but
I think the only button pushing mistake that Dave Roberts
made the entire World Series was to walk Gerrera intentionally
and pitch to Bobachet, who hit the three run Homer.
But then again, it's kind of like picking your poison.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
There isn't it one hundred percent you're picking your poison.
You're playing a percentages on the fact. Also the fact, dude,
that Bobashett was coming off a leg injury and you really,
you know, you see him running the bases and he's
not moving well, but you really don't have a good
read on really what his lower half feels like. It's
incredibly hard to hit when you don't have your lower half.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
But he's a money player.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
That was a big moment, and I've been in that
dome when big moments took place, and it's one of
the lot oft places you could ever be in in
your life. But I mean, Dave Roberts, what an unbelievable job.
And I'm out here in the Arizona Fall League and
I was with a lot of their front office today
and just the job that he did, the manner in
which he used his gut. I mean, Andy Paie has
(06:28):
as the defensive replacement, you know, didn't have his cards,
defensive positioning cards in his back pocket. He goes out
and makes that unbelievable play in left center field, and
Miggy Rojas hadn't played in two games. His wife tells
him he didn't hit a home run. He tells her
she's crazy because he's not even gonna play, and he
hits the home run. I mean, there were just so
(06:48):
many incredible storylines centered around Game seven in the entire series.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Let me ask you about that at matt For Miguel Rojas,
he had not even played much in the series at
all until he got the start in game six. And
there he was in Game seven and he's coming to
the plate and by the way, folks didn't know he
was hurting too, is ribcage and things like that. And
he comes to bat and he and he said, after
(07:15):
I'm just trying to get on base. I'm just trying
to get on base because Otiny's on deck and there's
one out there in the ninth and then you Savage
throws him.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
No, it wasn't you, Savage. It was.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Hoppin throws him a slider that just is just enough
catching the plate.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I didn't think it was a bad pitch.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
But Rojas turns on that thing and all of a sudden,
it's three hundred and sixty six feet away and.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
It's the pitch that that before like one, I'm pinch
hitting there and Dave Roberts didn't. Yeah, I mean again,
another great move, But it was the pitch before where
he got the breaking ball before off the plate. Yeah,
and I think he knew he was probably going to
get a breaking ball again.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And and I don't necessarily agree, especially in that moment
on that stage with a veteran player. You know, I'm
going hard after him. I'm going I'm going velocity. I'm
going to try to throw the ball by him because
you essentially speed his bat up. And when he saw
breaking ball ball.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Out of the hand, he knew.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
He was going to get a breaking ball again, and
he knew it was going to be a strikeout of
the hand, and he turned on it and and uh,
what a moment, What a moment for him.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
All right, Now we go to the bottom of the ninth.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
You mentioned Kei k Hernandez and the break he got
on the ball in Game six for the game ending
double play.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
There would be.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Those who would say he was in awful shallow on
that on that fly ball to the left, and Pie
as of course, saves the day. Now, key K has said,
and I watched some of the parade coverage some of
the other things.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
He goes, I got it.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
He goes, it's going to kind of be a willing
Mas type thing from the fifty four World Series. But
I got a beat on it. He goes, I'm going
to make a catch. And all of a sudden, he said,
I got post to rise. He got slammed, dunked, and
he lays on the warning track because he thought the
ball had not been caught. Him was over and Pius
goes over you all right man? He goes, yeah, what
about the ball?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
He goes, I got it.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Oh, let's go that kind of that moment for a
guy like Andy pie Has, who was I believe four
for fifty three in the postseason before he got inserted defensively.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
But he got inserted defensively.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
During that interim when Yamamoto hits Kirk to put him
on base to load the bases, Gino, and in that
moment for a manager, at that moment to go, I
got to make this defensive substitution.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
That speaks to what you were talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It's unbelievable and and Andy pie is is in the
scouting terms, he's a strong average player, which is an
All Star and so you know, for Dave the like,
even with his offensive slumps, I've got to do what
I've got to do, uh to win these games. For
him to have that moment is huge for that player
going in the next year and teaching that young player, Hey,
(10:12):
you can still help us win games, uh, even if
you're not hitting.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And so that was a.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Big moment for him, but huge for Dave Roberts to
make that decision. I mean, it would be so simple
just to let it ride, and in that moment, he
made that decision. And again Andy didn't even have his
his his positioning.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Cards in the back.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But but I got to tell you, I believe he
catches that ball.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I really believe.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I really believe he catches that baseball because I mean
I've watched that kid play since he was an hey ball,
He's ultra athletic, and just the way the look on
his face, I think he's I think he feels like
that he was going to catch that baseball. And on
the positioning side, you know, you look at the you
look at the ball where he came in and doubled
off in Game six, they're playing shallow. I don't think
(10:57):
you can you can you can second guess that either way,
and I would say he was probably playing at the
regular depth right then.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And and those.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Positioning cards and were they positioning those are based off
of thousands of that bats by the hitter and where
they're going to hit the ball and how far they're
going to hit the ball based on the matchup of
the pitcher, And so that's a pretty precise calculation on
on where they position him. But I got to tell you,
I thought the whole time Kiki was catching that baseball well.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And then we go to the bottom of the ninth
and and Guerrero has the double. I say it kind
of full left a bunch and the third hour, people
saying why are they budding? Why they the IKF is
an excellent bunner, and and I thought that was the
right move. Get him to scoring position where you have
two shots to get home at least a tying run.
They pinch, they have him at first base, and get
(11:48):
him over at first base and then pinch run. And
then you know, here's Yamamoto kind of on non plus
buy it and and zeroing in on Alejandro Kirk who
had been and really hurting the Dodgers throughout that world series,
but he got him to break his bat, hit that
ground or the mookie Bets and then he makes the play.
(12:08):
And there were some people saying that the runners should
have been in motion, but if he'd been in motion,
I think Bets probably beats him to the bag anyway,
moving and then throwing the first in time to end it.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
No question.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And you know, Yamamoto the one thing that the Dodgers
have done so incredibly, And that was why I felt
like when it was three to two, you know, you're
going Snell, You're going snow Yamamoto Tani for eighteens. I
just didn't see a pathway where Toronto was gonna beat
those three arms. I just I didn't see the pathway.
(12:42):
But you know, this is where the game has changed
so much. And you look at how deep Yamamoto got
with the two straight complete games, and then he pitches
the ninety six pitch start and then he comes out
of the bullpen a day later, which most people tell
you is absolutely crazy. But this is what's changed up
about pitching it to mague level. There was a time
when there were thirty pitchers that pitched two hundred and
(13:05):
twenty five innings two hundred and twenty five. There was
a day when Burt Blylevin and Tom sever and Nolan
Ryan are throwing three hundred innings. Yoshi Ama Motor throw
one hundred and seventy two and two thirds innings this year,
and that, I mean, that's a true eighth. And that's
what it says about today's game. It's not about any
one start. It's about the length of the season and
(13:28):
your pitchers being their very best in October. And that's
what the Dodgers. They had to plan the entire season,
knowing the depth of their starting rotation. They were not
going to wear their starters down. And it proved it
to be just an extreme strength in October and just
truly an unbelievable performance by a true most valuable player.
(13:49):
And I got to.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Tell you he's the best pitcher I've ever seen in
my life. It's it's six.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Pitches, above average, command, above average of pitchability. I mean,
it's everything you're looking for in the complete picture.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Gino.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
One thing I heard Will Smith because he was asked
about his home run obviously in the eleventh and Will
Smith said, and he's not normally you know, Will Smith,
He's not normally given over to great philosophical discussions. He's
a guy who falls in that category of the triumph
of the uncluttered mind. He's a guy that's a pretty simple,
(14:25):
you know, play as you go god. But he said
something I thought was interesting. He said, this World Series
had moments for everyone. Everyone had their moment at some
point in this postseason overall, everyone had their moment. And
you were thinking about Will Klein in that eighteen inning game,
a guy who hadn't thrown more than thirty pitches in
Anny Alley throws seventy two. And it is amazing Clayton
(14:49):
Kershaw that one battery works. He had to get the
one battery, got the one batter, you know, things like that.
And then Rojas obviously with what with what he did.
But I guess that's when it has to be the
sum of the parts. Because Toronto out hit the Dodgers,
they outpitched the Dodgers and in many ways outplayed them.
But there were enough big play moments that La made
(15:12):
and maybe just a few mistakes here and there for
Toronto that flipped this thing.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
But I guess it was a series for everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
It really was. And where I take accepting as people
everybody that says, well, they're they're the highest salary, they're
the highest pay role. Go watch their spring training in
the backfields and see how their players work. And you
go into their minor league system during the season, and
it's late in the year when nobody's working, and their
minor leaguers are still working. Their six year free agents
(15:40):
are still working. And what they're a testimony. Did they
spend one point two billion dollars on their rotation? One
hundred percent? Was that a big part of the reason
they won one hundred percent? But it's a lot of
the complimentary players. You know, Mickey Rojas wasn't even playing.
Will kleinb was a waiver claim. Those are the things.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
That they also do so incredibly well.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And if you're gonna win in October, you know you
can have your ceiling, your roster as top heavy as
you want. If you don't have the integral parts to
make the moves you need to make to counter your opponent,
you don't have a chance of winning. And I've said
this before, people say, well, just get in anything can happen,
And I think that's ridiculous. I think that anything can
(16:24):
happen is going on right now with free agent, anything
can happen happens on the waiver wire, and anything can
happen happens at the trade deadline, and you build that
roster and you trade those prospects, and you spend in
free agency to do everything you can for the real
world championship, because sustainability is not it's not where it's
at you. I was in Atlanta. We won fourteen straight
(16:46):
division titles, we won won world championship. We will be
remembered for that one world championship, not the fourteen division titles.
And I just think as an industry, we've got to
get back to the competition level of that. And that's
what the Dodger continue to.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Do so well.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
And I gotta tell you they're gonna be right back
in there next year. They got another shot to do
what no team has done since the New York Yankees
ninety eight, ninety nine, two thousand. Have a chance to
do it in two thousand and one, but the Dodgers
are gonna be right back in there next year.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Let me ask you a talcout baseball with Geam Watson
here on thirteen hundred zone. Let me ask you about now,
let's everything moves in to the off season.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
We get your thoughts on a couple of things.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Craig Stammon gets hired to manage the San Diego Padres,
you have, you have that. It looks like they're gonna
have Paul D. Podest to run the Rockies front office
there for them. The Dodgers today announced they picked up
the ten million dollar option on Max Munsey. There's a
lot of the stuff that's going on. How closely do
(17:48):
we watch what's coming up even before we get to
the winter meetings next month, you know about what's happening
now with options being picked up or declined.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Well, the biggest thing I think it paid too, is
the amount of pitching. You're already seeing it with a
lot of these pitchers opting out of their mutual agreements
because their agents and them all know that the demand
is so much greater than the supply that everybody who
has pitching available is going to be able to move
it for pretty good capital. And these free agents are
(18:18):
going to be highly coveted and they're going to make
a lot of money, and because there's just there's just
not enough, and so that's going to be the big story.
But I think you know, you're going to see a
lot of preparation as far as like, you know, there's
some concern about the CBA at the end of twenty six,
and I think there's going to be a lot of
teams that could be paying attention to that with their
overall spending, and it's going to be interesting to see,
(18:41):
you know, where some of these free agents that have
taken their outs, you know, end up. Alex Bregman, Cody Bellinger,
Kyle Tucker. It's going to be interesting to see where
these guys end up. But make no mistake, next year
from a competition standpoint, there will be a few teams
that make a decent jump to maybe put their stamp
(19:02):
on the twenty six season to move into the playoffs.
But for the most part, you look at Seattle, you
look at the Dodgers, you look at the Phillies, you
look at the Yankees, you look at the Mets.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
The Mets have a.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Chance to be extremely good next year. And you look
for young teams like the Miami Marlins, who who have
done a great job and they've got a young team
and a lot of fun to watch. So it's going
to be a very interesting offseason. We had to Vegas
on Monday for the.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
General managers meetings.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
There's been a number of conversations that have already taken place,
and there could be some things that move really really
quick early into this offseason.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Gino, you mentioned the Phillies is the number one free
agent Kyle Schwarber.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Without a doubt not And forget the on the field talent.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
This guy carries a city and he is he is.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
A marquee franchise type player. And there's so few left
handed bats within the industry. But you get a left
handed bat with the power that he's got and what
he brings not to the clubhouse, to the entire city.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Uh, there's no question. I know that is an enormous story.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Uh. And and I've watched this kid play since he
was at the University of Indiana, and what a what
a great story of a guy that you know, he
was a catcher, He had to really watch his body.
He did a tremendous job of getting his body in shape. Uh.
And he gets to the big leagues and just turns
into the one of the greater franchise players that there
is in the game right now.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
One final thing, Gino, we saw they had TV shots
of Don Mattingly on the on the Blue Jays bench.
He announced that he's not returning to the Blue Jays,
but his agent has said that doesn't mean he's retiring, uh,
that he would look at options. Do you see him
continuing somewhere? Might there be a team that be interested
in having him manage them.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
There's there's no question.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I don't know that it'll be manager.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
But and this is not this is not.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I mean it's it's hard working in Toronto, you know,
getting in and out of the country, and and you know,
Don is just an unbelievable individual. I think he knows
what his options could be.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
It's not an easy.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Place to work from a travel standpoint. You know, it's
not easy on your family, which kind of speaks to,
you know, the amazing job that that organization.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Did this year.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
It's it's not easy and they did an unbelievable job,
and don't they will be back. John Snyder is one
of the best managers in baseball. They've got really, I mean,
Savage is going to be back, Laddie's going to be back.
They're going to be a really nice ball club again
next year in a really tough division. But but but
Don's going.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
To have his pick.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You know, there's still Major League staffs that are picking
out their their coaching staffs. And if Mattingly wanted to
go into the front office and be an advisor like
Bruce Boch he just did with the Giants, he would
certainly have those opportunities.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
All right, Hey, Gin know, it's great to visit with you.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
When we get to winter meetings, definitely, or other major
things that might happen between now and then, we'll call
on you again if that's okay, all right, Thanks appreciate it.
Genom okay, take care all right. That is Gene Watson
our MLB. Inside of their interesting comments from him there,
I think we will probably see Don Mattingly with a
ball club there, and it'll be interesting to watch to
(22:14):
see which teams are interested in Kyle Schwarber.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
All right, more coming up. We'll continue on thirteen under
the Zone
Here on this Thursday afternoon, and it has been our
custom over the past several years, I think, like twenty years,
to win the baseball season ends following the World Series,
to visit with their good friend Jean Watson from the
front office of the Chicago White Sox, and to get
a recap not only of the World Series, but what's
(00:22):
to come in the offseason and what's to go for Gino,
We've been doing this a long time, so long before
you were with the White Sox or the Angels, or
the Royals or the I mean, we could go back aways,
couldn't we.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
It has been a long time, my friend, and a
lot of fun along the way.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
Speaking of a lot of fun, I want to get
your opinion on this now. First of all, I'm going
to give Genas flowers. He predicted initially the Dodgers to
win the World Series in six games over Toronto. When
Toronto got up three to two, Gino doubled down, He
dug in his heels, and he said, the Dodgers going
to find a way to win Game six, and they're
going to find a way to win Game seven and
win this World Series. I don't I think any more
(01:00):
prophetic words could have been said than to use the
words find a way, which is what they ultimately did.
But what I want to ask you about our good friend.
Tim Kirchen with ESPN was referring to an article written
by Steve Rushing, the former writer from Sports Illustrated, describing
that ninety one World Series between the Twins and the Braves,
(01:24):
and he at the end of him he's talking about
he said, let us call this World series what it
is now while at seven games to ring in our ears,
the greatest of us ever played. And then Tim Kirchin
comes back in and says, with apologies to nineteen ninety one,
the Los Angeles Dodgers in Toronto Blue Jays just finished
the greatest World Series. Not because all the games were great,
(01:44):
some weren't, all were flawed, but all were marvelously fun,
interesting and entertaining. It was the greatest World Series because
of its compelling story lines, some of which were impossible
to believe. An eighteen inning game and a historic pitching
performance by a twenty two year old, the first pinch
hit Grand Slam in.
Speaker 3 (02:02):
World Series history, the first World.
Speaker 1 (02:04):
Series game to begin with back to back home runs,
the first game ending seven to four double play in
World Series history. It featured a bizarre three pitch opera
from a pitcher who hadn't worked in relief in seven years,
the final Major League game for the greatest pitcher of
this era, and a Game seven for the Ages for
all ages, a masterpiece featuring an unforgettable iron Man pitching
(02:27):
performance that we might never see again. Tim Kirchin always
had away with words. But I'll ask you, Gino, was
this the greatest World Series ever played?
Speaker 4 (02:35):
It's not even close.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
And really, when you start with the fact that it
was such a global series, I mean, the viewership around
the world was as high as it's ever been for
any series. When you talk about the Hall of famers,
you know future and the ones that are just coming
into their career that will be Hall of famers, that
(02:58):
was a big part of it.
Speaker 4 (02:59):
But just you know, two.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Teams, it was just a fifteen round heavyweight boxing match.
Speaker 4 (03:06):
And truly, like just when you thought it was over, something.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
Would happen and the games just kept going and it
was truly. I don't typically rewatch baseball games. I've watched
Game seven five or six times since it ended, and
it's just when you think about all the little things
that happened that could have swung that game either way.
It was truly one of the best games in the
(03:31):
best series we've ever seen.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
When we last visited, it was after game five, and
you talked about how great Treya Savage had been and
how great the Jays had been and jumping to that
three to two lead, and then that's when you said
you still believe the Dodgers would find and winning win
game six and seven. So let me get your thoughts
on a couple of things for those two games six
and seven. Let me start, first of all, a Yama Moto,
(03:55):
of course, thinking through ninety six pitches in that he
pitches really well in game six, but it took that
and Tim Kirchin mentioned it highly unusual seven to four
double play to end the game. And and sometimes games
are marked by great plays, and sometimes they're marked by mistakes.
And sometimes the answer both can be true. Addison Barger
(04:17):
a little too far away from the bag and got
back uh and and and and when you get to
those high pressure games, we tend to see some of boat,
don't we. Great performances, great uh plays made, and then
also some mistakes made.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Well, I think I think it begins with ball off
the bat. I don't think there's a person in the
world that didn't think that that was a base hit.
What Kiki Hernandez did, his first step, his jump on
that baseball was absolutely unbelievable, but not just catching the ball,
but but the momentum that he had moving forward to
make that accurate throw on the run.
Speaker 4 (04:55):
And Addison Barger's.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Young player, and you know, young players are gonna make mistakes,
and you know, he probably felt like everybody else at
that ball was down and he wanted to make sure
he at least took a hard turn around third base.
But just a flawless effort by Kiki Hernandez to come
in and get that first step, make to catch and.
Speaker 4 (05:13):
Make the throw on the run to secure the win.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
All right, let's go to Game seven now, you know, and.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
You know it had so much drama in what was
going on earlier. The only I think the only and
you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, but
I think the only button pushing mistake that Dave Roberts
made the entire World Series was to walk Gerrera intentionally
and pitch to Bobachet, who hit the three run Homer.
But then again, it's kind of like picking your poison.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
There isn't it one hundred percent you're picking your poison.
You're playing a percentages on the fact. Also the fact, dude,
that Bobashett was coming off a leg injury and you really,
you know, you see him running the bases and he's
not moving well, but you really don't have a good
read on really what his lower half feels like. It's
incredibly hard to hit when you don't have your lower half.
Speaker 4 (06:03):
But he's a money player.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
That was a big moment, and I've been in that
dome when big moments took place, and it's one of
the lot oft places you could ever be in in
your life. But I mean, Dave Roberts, what an unbelievable job.
And I'm out here in the Arizona Fall League and
I was with a lot of their front office today
and just the job that he did, the manner in
which he used his gut. I mean, Andy Paie has
(06:28):
as the defensive replacement, you know, didn't have his cards,
defensive positioning cards in his back pocket. He goes out
and makes that unbelievable play in left center field, and
Miggy Rojas hadn't played in two games. His wife tells
him he didn't hit a home run. He tells her
she's crazy because he's not even gonna play, and he
hits the home run. I mean, there were just so
(06:48):
many incredible storylines centered around Game seven in the entire series.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
Let me ask you about that at matt For Miguel Rojas,
he had not even played much in the series at
all until he got the start in game six. And
there he was in Game seven and he's coming to
the plate and by the way, folks didn't know he
was hurting too, is ribcage and things like that. And
he comes to bat and he and he said, after
(07:15):
I'm just trying to get on base. I'm just trying
to get on base because Otiny's on deck and there's
one out there in the ninth and then you Savage
throws him.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
No, it wasn't you, Savage. It was.
Speaker 1 (07:28):
Hoppin throws him a slider that just is just enough
catching the plate.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
I didn't think it was a bad pitch.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
But Rojas turns on that thing and all of a sudden,
it's three hundred and sixty six feet away and.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
It's the pitch that that before like one, I'm pinch
hitting there and Dave Roberts didn't. Yeah, I mean again,
another great move, But it was the pitch before where
he got the breaking ball before off the plate. Yeah,
and I think he knew he was probably going to
get a breaking ball again.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
And and I don't necessarily agree, especially in that moment
on that stage with a veteran player. You know, I'm
going hard after him. I'm going I'm going velocity. I'm
going to try to throw the ball by him because
you essentially speed his bat up. And when he saw
breaking ball ball.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Out of the hand, he knew.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
He was going to get a breaking ball again, and
he knew it was going to be a strikeout of
the hand, and he turned on it and and uh,
what a moment, What a moment for him.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
All right, Now we go to the bottom of the ninth.
Speaker 1 (08:36):
You mentioned Kei k Hernandez and the break he got
on the ball in Game six for the game ending
double play.
Speaker 3 (08:43):
There would be.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
Those who would say he was in awful shallow on
that on that fly ball to the left, and Pie
as of course, saves the day. Now, key K has said,
and I watched some of the parade coverage some of
the other things.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
He goes, I got it.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
He goes, it's going to kind of be a willing
Mas type thing from the fifty four World Series. But
I got a beat on it. He goes, I'm going
to make a catch. And all of a sudden, he said,
I got post to rise. He got slammed, dunked, and
he lays on the warning track because he thought the
ball had not been caught. Him was over and Pius
goes over you all right man? He goes, yeah, what
about the ball?
Speaker 3 (09:16):
He goes, I got it.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
Oh, let's go that kind of that moment for a
guy like Andy pie Has, who was I believe four
for fifty three in the postseason before he got inserted defensively.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
But he got inserted defensively.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
During that interim when Yamamoto hits Kirk to put him
on base to load the bases, Gino, and in that
moment for a manager, at that moment to go, I
got to make this defensive substitution.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
That speaks to what you were talking about.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
It's unbelievable and and Andy pie is is in the
scouting terms, he's a strong average player, which is an
All Star and so you know, for Dave the like,
even with his offensive slumps, I've got to do what
I've got to do, uh to win these games. For
him to have that moment is huge for that player
going in the next year and teaching that young player, Hey,
(10:12):
you can still help us win games, uh, even if
you're not hitting.
Speaker 3 (10:15):
And so that was a.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Big moment for him, but huge for Dave Roberts to
make that decision. I mean, it would be so simple
just to let it ride, and in that moment, he
made that decision. And again Andy didn't even have his
his his positioning.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
Cards in the back.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
But but I got to tell you, I believe he
catches that ball.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
I really believe.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
I really believe he catches that baseball because I mean
I've watched that kid play since he was an hey ball,
He's ultra athletic, and just the way the look on
his face, I think he's I think he feels like
that he was going to catch that baseball. And on
the positioning side, you know, you look at the you
look at the ball where he came in and doubled
off in Game six, they're playing shallow. I don't think
(10:57):
you can you can you can second guess that either way,
and I would say he was probably playing at the
regular depth right then.
Speaker 3 (11:04):
And and those.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Positioning cards and were they positioning those are based off
of thousands of that bats by the hitter and where
they're going to hit the ball and how far they're
going to hit the ball based on the matchup of
the pitcher, And so that's a pretty precise calculation on
on where they position him. But I got to tell you,
I thought the whole time Kiki was catching that baseball well.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
And then we go to the bottom of the ninth
and and Guerrero has the double. I say it kind
of full left a bunch and the third hour, people
saying why are they budding? Why they the IKF is
an excellent bunner, and and I thought that was the
right move. Get him to scoring position where you have
two shots to get home at least a tying run.
They pinch, they have him at first base, and get
(11:48):
him over at first base and then pinch run. And
then you know, here's Yamamoto kind of on non plus
buy it and and zeroing in on Alejandro Kirk who
had been and really hurting the Dodgers throughout that world series,
but he got him to break his bat, hit that
ground or the mookie Bets and then he makes the play.
(12:08):
And there were some people saying that the runners should
have been in motion, but if he'd been in motion,
I think Bets probably beats him to the bag anyway,
moving and then throwing the first in time to end it.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
No question.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
And you know, Yamamoto the one thing that the Dodgers
have done so incredibly, And that was why I felt
like when it was three to two, you know, you're
going Snell, You're going snow Yamamoto Tani for eighteens. I
just didn't see a pathway where Toronto was gonna beat
those three arms. I just I didn't see the pathway.
(12:42):
But you know, this is where the game has changed
so much. And you look at how deep Yamamoto got
with the two straight complete games, and then he pitches
the ninety six pitch start and then he comes out
of the bullpen a day later, which most people tell
you is absolutely crazy. But this is what's changed up
about pitching it to mague level. There was a time
when there were thirty pitchers that pitched two hundred and
(13:05):
twenty five innings two hundred and twenty five. There was
a day when Burt Blylevin and Tom sever and Nolan
Ryan are throwing three hundred innings. Yoshi Ama Motor throw
one hundred and seventy two and two thirds innings this year,
and that, I mean, that's a true eighth. And that's
what it says about today's game. It's not about any
one start. It's about the length of the season and
(13:28):
your pitchers being their very best in October. And that's
what the Dodgers. They had to plan the entire season,
knowing the depth of their starting rotation. They were not
going to wear their starters down. And it proved it
to be just an extreme strength in October and just
truly an unbelievable performance by a true most valuable player.
(13:49):
And I got to.
Speaker 4 (13:50):
Tell you he's the best pitcher I've ever seen in
my life. It's it's six.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Pitches, above average, command, above average of pitchability. I mean,
it's everything you're looking for in the complete picture.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Gino.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
One thing I heard Will Smith because he was asked
about his home run obviously in the eleventh and Will
Smith said, and he's not normally you know, Will Smith,
He's not normally given over to great philosophical discussions. He's
a guy who falls in that category of the triumph
of the uncluttered mind. He's a guy that's a pretty simple,
(14:25):
you know, play as you go god. But he said
something I thought was interesting. He said, this World Series
had moments for everyone. Everyone had their moment at some
point in this postseason overall, everyone had their moment. And
you were thinking about Will Klein in that eighteen inning game,
a guy who hadn't thrown more than thirty pitches in
Anny Alley throws seventy two. And it is amazing Clayton
(14:49):
Kershaw that one battery works. He had to get the
one battery, got the one batter, you know, things like that.
And then Rojas obviously with what with what he did.
But I guess that's when it has to be the
sum of the parts. Because Toronto out hit the Dodgers,
they outpitched the Dodgers and in many ways outplayed them.
But there were enough big play moments that La made
(15:12):
and maybe just a few mistakes here and there for
Toronto that flipped this thing.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
But I guess it was a series for everybody.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
It really was. And where I take accepting as people
everybody that says, well, they're they're the highest salary, they're
the highest pay role. Go watch their spring training in
the backfields and see how their players work. And you
go into their minor league system during the season, and
it's late in the year when nobody's working, and their
minor leaguers are still working. Their six year free agents
(15:40):
are still working. And what they're a testimony. Did they
spend one point two billion dollars on their rotation? One
hundred percent? Was that a big part of the reason
they won one hundred percent? But it's a lot of
the complimentary players. You know, Mickey Rojas wasn't even playing.
Will kleinb was a waiver claim. Those are the things.
Speaker 4 (15:59):
That they also do so incredibly well.
Speaker 2 (16:02):
And if you're gonna win in October, you know you
can have your ceiling, your roster as top heavy as
you want. If you don't have the integral parts to
make the moves you need to make to counter your opponent,
you don't have a chance of winning. And I've said
this before, people say, well, just get in anything can happen,
And I think that's ridiculous. I think that anything can
(16:24):
happen is going on right now with free agent, anything
can happen happens on the waiver wire, and anything can
happen happens at the trade deadline, and you build that
roster and you trade those prospects, and you spend in
free agency to do everything you can for the real
world championship, because sustainability is not it's not where it's
at you. I was in Atlanta. We won fourteen straight
(16:46):
division titles, we won won world championship. We will be
remembered for that one world championship, not the fourteen division titles.
And I just think as an industry, we've got to
get back to the competition level of that. And that's
what the Dodger continue to.
Speaker 4 (17:01):
Do so well.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
And I gotta tell you they're gonna be right back
in there next year. They got another shot to do
what no team has done since the New York Yankees
ninety eight, ninety nine, two thousand. Have a chance to
do it in two thousand and one, but the Dodgers
are gonna be right back in there next year.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Let me ask you a talcout baseball with Geam Watson
here on thirteen hundred zone. Let me ask you about now,
let's everything moves in to the off season.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
We get your thoughts on a couple of things.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
Craig Stammon gets hired to manage the San Diego Padres,
you have, you have that. It looks like they're gonna
have Paul D. Podest to run the Rockies front office
there for them. The Dodgers today announced they picked up
the ten million dollar option on Max Munsey. There's a
lot of the stuff that's going on. How closely do
(17:48):
we watch what's coming up even before we get to
the winter meetings next month, you know about what's happening
now with options being picked up or declined.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Well, the biggest thing I think it paid too, is
the amount of pitching. You're already seeing it with a
lot of these pitchers opting out of their mutual agreements
because their agents and them all know that the demand
is so much greater than the supply that everybody who
has pitching available is going to be able to move
it for pretty good capital. And these free agents are
(18:18):
going to be highly coveted and they're going to make
a lot of money, and because there's just there's just
not enough, and so that's going to be the big story.
But I think you know, you're going to see a
lot of preparation as far as like, you know, there's
some concern about the CBA at the end of twenty six,
and I think there's going to be a lot of
teams that could be paying attention to that with their
overall spending, and it's going to be interesting to see,
(18:41):
you know, where some of these free agents that have
taken their outs, you know, end up. Alex Bregman, Cody Bellinger,
Kyle Tucker. It's going to be interesting to see where
these guys end up. But make no mistake, next year
from a competition standpoint, there will be a few teams
that make a decent jump to maybe put their stamp
(19:02):
on the twenty six season to move into the playoffs.
But for the most part, you look at Seattle, you
look at the Dodgers, you look at the Phillies, you
look at the Yankees, you look at the Mets.
Speaker 3 (19:12):
The Mets have a.
Speaker 2 (19:13):
Chance to be extremely good next year. And you look
for young teams like the Miami Marlins, who who have
done a great job and they've got a young team
and a lot of fun to watch. So it's going
to be a very interesting offseason. We had to Vegas
on Monday for the.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
General managers meetings.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
There's been a number of conversations that have already taken place,
and there could be some things that move really really
quick early into this offseason.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Gino, you mentioned the Phillies is the number one free
agent Kyle Schwarber.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Without a doubt not And forget the on the field talent.
Speaker 4 (19:47):
This guy carries a city and he is he is.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
A marquee franchise type player. And there's so few left
handed bats within the industry. But you get a left
handed bat with the power that he's got and what
he brings not to the clubhouse, to the entire city.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
Uh, there's no question. I know that is an enormous story.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Uh. And and I've watched this kid play since he
was at the University of Indiana, and what a what
a great story of a guy that you know, he
was a catcher, He had to really watch his body.
He did a tremendous job of getting his body in shape. Uh.
And he gets to the big leagues and just turns
into the one of the greater franchise players that there
is in the game right now.
Speaker 1 (20:29):
One final thing, Gino, we saw they had TV shots
of Don Mattingly on the on the Blue Jays bench.
He announced that he's not returning to the Blue Jays,
but his agent has said that doesn't mean he's retiring, uh,
that he would look at options. Do you see him
continuing somewhere? Might there be a team that be interested
in having him manage them.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
There's there's no question.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
I don't know that it'll be manager.
Speaker 4 (20:51):
But and this is not this is not.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
I mean it's it's hard working in Toronto, you know,
getting in and out of the country, and and you know,
Don is just an unbelievable individual. I think he knows
what his options could be.
Speaker 4 (21:06):
It's not an easy.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Place to work from a travel standpoint. You know, it's
not easy on your family, which kind of speaks to,
you know, the amazing job that that organization.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Did this year.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
It's it's not easy and they did an unbelievable job,
and don't they will be back. John Snyder is one
of the best managers in baseball. They've got really, I mean,
Savage is going to be back, Laddie's going to be back.
They're going to be a really nice ball club again
next year in a really tough division. But but but
Don's going.
Speaker 4 (21:35):
To have his pick.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
You know, there's still Major League staffs that are picking
out their their coaching staffs. And if Mattingly wanted to
go into the front office and be an advisor like
Bruce Boch he just did with the Giants, he would
certainly have those opportunities.
Speaker 3 (21:49):
All right, Hey, Gin know, it's great to visit with you.
Speaker 1 (21:51):
When we get to winter meetings, definitely, or other major
things that might happen between now and then, we'll call
on you again if that's okay, all right, Thanks appreciate it.
Genom okay, take care all right. That is Gene Watson
our MLB. Inside of their interesting comments from him there,
I think we will probably see Don Mattingly with a
ball club there, and it'll be interesting to watch to
(22:14):
see which teams are interested in Kyle Schwarber.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
All right, more coming up. We'll continue on thirteen under
the Zone
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