Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and you have found the place
where we talk about a state planning, elder law, real
estate and business law. So if you have a question,
a comment, or concern about wills, trusts or probate. If
you're wondering how do we beat the high cost of
(00:41):
long term care? You know it's only six hundred bucks
a night. Well, what have you ever been in a
hotel that costs six hundred dollars a night? Oh oh,
let's go to a cheap place, all right, forget about
the nice places. Let's go to a Let's go to
a cheap long term care facility because there's only four
hundred and fifty dollars a night. Yeah, yeah, See. Here's
(01:05):
the thing. Regular folks like you, I dare say, will
never go broke on your own. It won't happen. You
won't quilt that much, you won't fish that much. You
won't you won't go broke, won't go to the casino
that much. People with savings, people who've been, you know,
doing the righteous thing right, you will not go broke
(01:27):
in that way. You'll never go broke voluntarily. You know why,
because you will figure it away around it, whether it's
beans and rice or taking a second job or you know,
things that you did already, right, being frugal with your
retirement spending all the rest, but you'll figure away. Long
term care is different. Long term care says, give me
(01:48):
the money, and give me the money, honey, and don't stop,
you know, until you're dead, and then broke or usually
broke comes first. So that's why we do the planning
for the long term care. That's why is state planning
that doesn't address long term care is not a state
planning at all. I don't even know what the heck
it is. I mean, I think it's just nonsense. I
(02:10):
mean I really do. And it's like, oh, that's not customary. Yeah,
I know it's not customary. I get it. Yeah, I
know this is not what everybody's doing. But but for
thirty five years. You know, we've helped what tens of
thousands of families get their estate planning doing fright, and
we haven't been customary for ten minutes of it. So anyway,
(02:32):
that's the whole idea of the long term care stuff.
If you don't take care of that, you haven't taken
care of anything. You haven't take care of yourself, you
haven't taken care of your spouse. That's not how you
lived your life, you know. And yeah, I mean we
all hate to take government benefits, but those aren't government benefits.
Government doesn't have the money. It just gets the money
(02:52):
from you, duh. I mean, where do you think it
gets it from. It ain't the rich people. It ain't
the poor people. It's the middle class people. You know why,
because we don't move fast enough those rich folks they do.
So anyway, that's why we're doing estate planning right and
the state planning elder law, you know, retirement law right.
(03:13):
How do we make sure that your retirement is what
you've earned not? You know, we're not looking for any
handouts here, and we're not looking for any special treatment.
All we want is the same deal you're willing to
give everybody else. We also deal with real estate. Real estate. Hey,
market's coming back. Market's coming back? Why because the interest
rates are going down a little bit anyway, And then
(03:35):
of course we've got business law. So you know, COVID
only wiped out sixty of small businesses and left some gaps.
There also a lot of boarded up downtowns that will
never come back. You know, the whole riots and all
that kind of thing. Terrible stuff. Well, I mean, just
go to Detroit. I mean the sixty seven riots are
still front and center right there. So anyway, give us
(03:58):
a call sixty one six seven seven for twenty four
twenty four. That's six one six seven seven four twenty
four to twenty four. We'll get your question, comment or
concerned on the air. And hey, how about that Middle
East peace? Huh? You know, years ago we had the
Abraham of Corridge, which laid the groundwork and horrific stuff.
Two years ago that has been and looks like now
(04:22):
we're we're finally coming around, right of course, the only
still some hitches and glitches. You know, imagine that. Imagine
you took a bunch of the hostages, killed them and
they couldn't remember where you put the bodies. Apparently that's
the problem they've gotten now they killed the hostages, and now,
you know, last time, last time, they gave back remains
(04:44):
of people who weren't hostages and turned out to be
other people. And I think part of the problem I
don't I can't see where the I can't see where
the advantage is and giving back the wrong bodies or remains,
which is what they're doing. I don't see what the
advantage is. I suspect I suspect they just don't know.
(05:08):
I suspect that. You know, it's not like they you know,
it's not like they kept records of that stuff or
we're particularly careful, particularly careful about it. So anyway, that's uh.
But basically, it seems to be a lot of celebration
and stuff like that. Everybody seems to be rejoicing that. Finally,
that's uh, that seems to be drawing to a close.
(05:28):
Let's hope. So let's hope those Abraham Accords spread throughout
the Middle East, and you know, finally a region of
the world which has been you know, let's face it,
front and center in terms of death and destruction and
all the rest of it. You know, let's get some
good middle class values over there. What do you say,
You know, maybe people work hard and you know, instead
(05:50):
of building tunnels, they build houses and schools, you know,
teach each other to love one another. That would be
that would be wonderful. So good stuff happening, good stuff happening,
and charity begins at home. Good stuff begins at home.
That's what I always say, if you get your stuff together.
The basic building block of our society is the family, right,
(06:11):
your family, So how can we make sure that your
family continues to grow? And it's a difficult environment even
over here. I mean, obviously we don't have except in
certain cities. We don't have people blowing stuff up except
in certain cities. But that seems to be resolving itself,
or being resolved, I might say. Anyway, the question is
(06:34):
how do you how do we as family members, how
do we support our families? Because if we don't do it,
no one's going to No one else is going to anyway,
that's not the that's the American way, that's how we
that's how we've done it. But how can you do
that if leaving stuff to the next generation is no
part of the equation. Now, I always say, screw the kids, right,
(06:58):
I always say you got to take care of yourself first,
and I never back off of that because you do
have to take care of yourself first, all right. You
do have to take care of yourself, your spouse, that's
the primary responsibility. But you know, kids these days are
in a different situation than we were growing up, than
you were than I was. If you think about what
(07:19):
a house used to cost, think about how much you
paid for your first house. Imagine you were starting out
right now, how are you going to pay a quarter
million dollars for a house? You know, and that's like
the medium price, And if you want something kind of nice,
well add a few hundred thousands to it, because you're
going to be doing that very quickly. Same way with education, gosh,
(07:41):
I mean, you used to be able to work your
way through and that was a real That was a
real thing. Working your way through college, working your way
through law school, what have you. You know, that was a
real thing. How do you do it now when it's
you know, tens of thousands of dollars? You can't you know,
you can't deliver that many pizzas. Sorry, it's tough. It's tough,
(08:05):
and so families need to be looking out for their
family members. You know, it's the way the middle class
has always kind of perpetuated itself. What's different today is
number one, everything's more expensive. That's different. The other thing
that's different has to do with the long term care.
You know, there's a reason why it's so expensive for
(08:29):
long term care, and the reason, like everything else, we
can blame the boomers for it. Right We showed up,
and they're an awful lot of us who showed up,
a lot of us baby boomers, And we're at the
point right now where we're starting to need and have been,
you know, depending on how you measure it for the
last ten years. I guess the need for baby boomers
(08:51):
to receive care is just mounting. I mean, it's just continuing,
and we're not dying as quickly as previous generations. There's
a lot of these statistics that that we use. For example,
the National Institute of Health says, on average, at sixty five,
you'll need three years of skilled care, and most of
that will not be professional care, most of that would
(09:12):
be family members, et cetera. But I really have to
doubt that anymore because it was based on I mean,
those are historic numbers, okay, where most of the care
that people receive was not paid for professional care. It
was family. It was family providing that care at home care. Well,
there's two things that have happened over the last thirty
(09:35):
years that didn't happen as they were developing those numbers,
and the first is divorce. All right, have people get divorced?
What does that mean? I mean it's for an awful
lot of people. You don't have a spouse, you know,
who's caring about you as much as they're caring about themselves.
They're not there. Okay, So there's one major source of
care that isn't there or to the extent that used
(09:57):
to be. The other is you didn't have as many
kids as your parents did either, right, And because there's
fewer kids and fewer spouses, I think that's I think
that what that's going to show, that's going to result
in is much more professional care. And you see it.
The demand for care is through the roof, but the
supply of caregivers, the supply of people who provide the
(10:19):
care is down. Well, everybody knows when demand goes up
and supply goes down, price goes through the roof. That's
what we're experiencing right now, and that is what's cutting
the middle class off of the generationally, cutting the middle
class off at the knees. What we've been doing now
for thirty five years is struggling against that. That's what
(10:41):
the our whole purpose is not the whole purpose, but
it's the first primary goal. Make sure you don't go broke,
because in this environment, that's just that's just the way
it is. And I can't see it getting better. It
just seems like it's going to be eventually, thirty years
from now we'll be wondering what we have all these
nurse homes.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Four.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
But today you've been listening to the David Carrier Show.
I'm David Carrier, your famili's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven four twenty four
to twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your famili's personal attorney. Now is the time give us
a call. Sixty one six seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. That's six one, six seven seven four, twenty four,
twenty four, we've got Scott on the line. Hello Scott,
Welcome to the David Carrier Show, and.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Good morning, mister Carrier. And in honor of our friends
to the north, happy Canadian Thanksgiving given us the day early.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
All right, first of your Canadian what do you get
to give Thanksgiving for?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Anyway?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I say that as I say that as a grandson
of French Canadians.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
All right.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Actually are Irish my Irish, well on both sides actually
because my uh, my Irish forebears were what we call
shanty Irish. We were not lace curtain Irish with a
shanty Irish. And so we took the we took the
trip from Liverpool to uh to what is it New
Brunswick or whatever I mean. The we took the quick route,
(12:22):
you know, the short one, and they stayed up there
for a couple of generations. And then on the French side,
same deal. So anyway, we love our neighbors to the north,
and happy Thanksgiving or whatever you have to give thanks for.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, no, uh, quick quick question. This is this This
is just uh, I don't know, maybe it's uh, it's
a curiosity if a payable on death designation like on
a bank account or investment account. Okay, different has different
beneficiaries than what's in a will. Is that ever a
basis for I don't know, complex to challenge, you know, well,
(13:00):
what do we take the precedent that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, the payables do the when you said payables, I
thought you meant that's owed by you know, something that
they didn't pay out, but no pay on death beneficiary
designations and like insurance designations all right, like if you
have if you've named someone on an insurance pot. We've
had this situation where they wanted to change the beneficiaries, right,
(13:27):
and the change of beneficiary they died before the change
of beneficiary form made it to the made it to
the insurance company, and federal law basically says that if
it hasn't been processed by the insurance company, then you
go with whatever is on the You go with whatever
is on the policy, and there's no way there's the
(13:48):
insurance aspectuse We we've had a couple of cases like
that over the years, you know, where somebody changed it
but for whatever reason, the insurance company didn't get through
the processing it and uh, you know, not effective. Same
way with with the other pay on death. Pay on
death does beneficiary designations. Yeah, you're you go buy what's
(14:13):
on there and you can try to fight it, but
you're gonna lose.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
No curiosity question if there's that, if there's those inconsistencies
like that, you know, if there's if it's ever been
used as a basis for say, challenging a will because
the beneficiaries and the will were much different than the
pay on death beneficiaries like that, I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, yeah, and and to your point, has it been used. Yeah,
it's been used, and it gets raised every once in
a while, but then it gets slapped down again. See
here's the here's the here's the problem. This is why,
this is why we never do pay on death. Okay,
because with pay on death, you've got to there's two
things going on with pay on death. Number One, it's
(14:58):
bad for the person who died because now their wishes
are not honored because you've got to go through that process.
And you'd be surprised. You might be surprised. I don't know.
I was surprised at how many people beneficiary designation here,
beneficiary designation there, and they don't even know who's getting what.
(15:19):
You ask them, what's your distribution plan? Well, and then
it turns out that their names on CDs. You know
of people that don't like anymore. You know. It's so
my whole philosophy is one one distribution plan. So everything
goes into the trust, and then everything comes out of
the trust. And if you want to change who gets what,
(15:41):
or their proportions or what have you, then you adjust
the trust. Okay, you're still going to avoid probate. And
so that's the first aspect of it. Now you get
a lot of people who say, oh, that's a bad idea,
because what they're talking about are the kinds of trust
that they're doing. The trust is liable for the person's debts,
(16:06):
the deceedents debts when they die. Okay, so if you
owe money to somebody and you have a life insurance policy,
when you name the person on the life insurance policy
right as a beneficiary, the money is going to the beneficiary,
no matter how much money the decedent owes to third parties. Okay,
(16:29):
so you're in debt up to your eyeballs, but you
have a life insurance policy you leave to your kid.
Your kid is still getting the money the debt. The
creditors are not getting the money. Now, that's why people
will frequently say, do not give your money to a
you know, do not make a revocable trust the beneficiary
(16:50):
because the revocable living trust typically and can be by
order responsible for your debts. Okay, because you have control
over it. Well, the trust that we do not only
protects you from long term care, but also after death.
It's not responsible for the debts of the grand tour. Okay.
(17:11):
What that means is that you can put life insurance
proceeds into the trust, okay, and it is not going
to be subject to your creditors. So you still get
the benefit that you always had with life insurance pay
on death right, which is it passes free and clear
of the claims of the creditors. That's what you want.
(17:32):
But here's the other thing that it does, and this
is another reason why it's so important to make a
trust the beneficiary not an individual, because it's not just
the person who died that has financial obligations. Okay, it's
not just that person, it's also the person who receives
the money. So you're like, oh boy, my business failed,
(17:56):
I went through bankruptcy. And now I'm going to get
a big chunk of money from my dad's life insurance.
And then the money shows up, Well, who do you
think it's the money? It isn't you, it's your creditors.
It's the bankruptcy court. All right, bad idea. We don't
like that. So what we do instead is when the
(18:16):
money goes out to the beneficiary, right, we wrap it
in a trust. And when you do that, it's called
the third party discretionary trust. When you do that right,
nobody can break it. We have more, you know, the MDOC,
the Michigan Department of Corrections. We've got prisoners right whose
(18:37):
mom set up the trust just the normal way we
do it. They can't touch the money. Bankruptcy can't touch
the money. Divorce can't touch the money. Car accident. There's
all kinds of things that you can do, in my opinion,
should do for your beneficiaries. Like it wasn't hard. It
wasn't easy to keep the money if you've got death,
not easy, you know, to prepare for that next generation.
(19:00):
And the worst is the worst is they don't even
get it. It goes to their creditors and doesn't do
the Malicka good you see. Well, I tell you what.
We're gonna explore that a little bit more in the
next segment because it is so important and people just
blow it off and as a count and like I
was saying in the in the first segment, really important
(19:22):
that we prepare for that next generation because they really
do have it more difficult than we did. Oh, music
means I need to get out, Scott.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
But thanks for coving me.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yep, yep, yep, appreciate it. You're listening to the David
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier. Your family's personal a tern.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
David's got the how too you're looking for Just call
seven seven twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier.
Your family please, personal attorney. Thank you to our caller Scott,
who's wondering about, Hey, what about those pay on death
beneficiary designations? Does a will overrule those or a trust
over rul thos? And the answer is no, You're stuck
with the beneficiary designations. Okay, So two problems with that.
(20:20):
Number One is this, Oh you gotta say this six
one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. That's
six one, six, seven, seven four twenty four twenty four.
Give us a call if you'd like. You don't have
to listen to me yak at the yak, you can
interrupt and we'll talk about something interesting to you. Eh, eh,
what a deal. Unbelievably wonderful. Anyway, there's so there's that.
(20:43):
Also if you go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com,
Squish it all together David Carrier Law dot com and
at the website David carry Law dot com is our amazing,
wonderful super duper gets better all the time. And it
really does get better all the time. Artificial intelligence AI assistant. Okay,
(21:04):
so have you ever gone to a website? It's like
you start clicking around, It's like where are that? Where
can I find anything that's useful here? All right, well, okay,
we've we've had that problem too. You know, how do
you make your website useful? How do you like get
out some information that people might be interested in and
(21:26):
the rumors that you know? Have you seen those baby
videos where the AI takes people and they tournament to
babies and then they use their voice, but it's a
baby talking. Have you have you seen those? I think
they're funny as funny as hell. Anyway, we're not going
to do that, sorry. So you can go to the
website and this AI assistant thing and you can like
(21:49):
talk to it. You can actually talk to it. There's
a click the button there and you can talk to it,
or you can just type in and we have a
number of frequently asked questions where if you click on it,
it'll give you the frequently given answer, but then you
can make it more specific for your own situation. Right,
So go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com. And
(22:11):
that thing's getting better all the time. It really, it
really is.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Now.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
It's not legal advice obviously. For that you need you know,
what is it to error as human, to really screw
things up, you need a computer. So anyway, don't rely
on that for absolute whatever. But it's interesting stuff. Makes
it easy to find stuff and can get and get
some answers to your questions. Okay, so I had to
(22:37):
take that. Oh plus the workshops, Yes, the workshops we
do every week every week the Good Lord brings and
twice on Sundays. Those are the workshops in Norton Shores
in Holland Grand Rapids in Portage, and now we're we're
looking at schedule in the next couple of months, out and
back out and lancing again. We've gotten we're working with
(22:59):
the r people out there have been for a couple
of years, and you know, they're like, oh, why don't
We've been getting calls, so why don't you come to
Lansing anymore? And it's like, well, because it's a long
way away. But anyway, it seems like it seems like
people want us to do that. It's okay, fine, we'll
(23:19):
do it. Why not. That's that's coming down the pike,
all right, So let's talk about oh yeah and call
us six one, six, seven, seven four, twenty four, twenty four.
Now the question is how do we get stuff to
that next generation. Remember I was saying, oh, you know,
(23:39):
kids these days, kids these days, they got to pay
ten times what you paid for a house. Apparently for
my high school senior. You know, we're comparing tuition costs,
and it's about twenty times what I paid twenty times,
not not fifty percent more, not half again as much,
(24:00):
not twice as much, twenty times two zero times as much.
It's it's it's it's staggering, is what it is. And
while you know, I'm very uh see, here's the thing.
Here's the thing. I would bet that people of a
certain age, which would include myself, will probably include you.
(24:25):
We shovel snow, we delivered newspapers. I was talking to
a guy the other day, a lawyer, as it happens,
and we were comparing paper roads and goes, yeah, well
I had a three three hundred page paper route delivered
an old Volkswagen bug. And it's like, okay, well I
wasn't old enough to drive, and I didn't have a
rural rote like you did. I had one hundred papers
(24:47):
in the city. So but you know, you're but there
was there is that shared shared experience of making money
delivering newspapers, shoveling snow, doing washing dishes, doing whatever, and
and it made a difference. Okay, you could make a
difference doing that kind of thing if you wanted to
go to college or what have you. So, but nowadays
(25:12):
it's just it doesn't it doesn't compute, you know, it
doesn't it You can't do it right, I mean, it
doesn't make a different. Now is it still good to work? Yes,
it's good to work? Is it good to learn how
to show up and somebody tell you to you know,
no soup for you or whatever, you know, to make
the donuts or wash the dishes or whatever. Is that good? Yeah?
(25:35):
I think that's really good. I think it is. I
think it's important that you know that you earn your
own money and all the rest. I think that's important.
But let's not kid ourselves that it's possible anymore to
work your way through school, which I think is more
important now. So that next generation kind of thing. So
that's what I'm talking about, and probably for the rest
(25:56):
of the show, or at least the is this hour.
So when you deal with investment advisors, insurance agents, what
have you, they've all been trained and doctrinated whatever you
want to say, not to make a trust the beneficiary
of the especially of life insurance, especially of life insurance
(26:18):
annuities that kindom because those things pass right without the
claims of the creditors. They pass without the claims of
the you know, they avoid the claims of the credit
They go directly to the beneficiary. So this is why
the investment advisors, insurance agents, typical estate planning. Oh that's
(26:45):
super good. Which it is super good. Your beneficiary will
definitely get the money, okay, free and clear of any
claims that you may have. So that's that's a good thing,
you want that. But what it ignores is the fact
that the recipient is typically in more difficult straits than
(27:06):
the person giving them the money than the deceding. The
person who just died, right, the person getting is in
worse financial shape than the person giving. And so what
you see a lot of is people who get an inheritance.
And I'm not saying they're irresponsible with them to saying
that at all, the opposite. They want to be responsible.
(27:26):
They want that nest egg to be a foundation going forward.
But they can't do it. They can't do it because
somebody else swoops in and takes the house, or takes
the money, or takes the insurance proceeds or what have you.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Do.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
You see the life insurance, the pay on death beneficiary
designations that everybody thinks it's so wonderful. Is wonderful as
far as the person who died is concerned. Okay, because
it gets it to that beneficiary. It does do that, yes,
it does do that. But the problem is the beneficiary
(28:03):
isn't ready to take it. And the worst thing, in
my opinion, is where you've got people who are doing
in a state plan. And what you see over and
over again is even if, even if they didn't give
it directly to the beneficiary, which a big mistake, what
if they ran it through the trust doesn't help because
(28:24):
what the trust says is give it directly to the
beneficiary without considering what the circumstances are of the beneficiary. See,
if you've got someone who's bank in bankruptcy right or
beset by all sides, by creditors, it doesn't help. It
doesn't help to give them money because if you give
(28:45):
them money directly, who's going to get the money? The creditors.
And you don't want you don't want to pay for
your beneficiaries past mistakes. That's what you wind up doing.
You're paying for that mistakes they may ten years ago,
twenty years ago, student loan debt, whatever it may be, Okay,
you're not. Instead, what you want to do is provide
(29:09):
a foundation for them to make positive changes moving on.
Do you see you don't want to fix fix the crime,
you know, and it doesn't benefit of them at all,
There's no benefit. It's like, okay, well those people are happy. Now, okay,
well what about the beneficiars. Beneficiary better off? No, beneficiary
(29:31):
is not better off. The creditors are. Their creditors are happy,
but it doesn't help your family member. Okay. So the
question is how do we make sure that the real
benefit goes to your family member? And that's what we'll
talk about next. Hint, it isn't by making them beneficiary
on the account. It isn't by pay on death. That's
(29:51):
Lady Bird deeds another one. I mean, that is not
how you do it. You have to be more thoughtful,
more intentional. I'm David Carrier, family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now, this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. I just heard an ad from
Sean Hannity talking about how you know, people try to
take them off the air, just like they did with
Rustling Baugh and et cetera, et cetera. And you know,
I'm I'm right in there. People keep trying to take
me off the air too, But that'sus. The show is
kind of lousy and I'm not very good at it.
(30:32):
There's nothing noble about it. But anyway, so they're trying
to take it's all off the air, but different reasons.
So but you know, it's like the midiary writer. You know,
they haven't caught me yet anyway, six one six seven
seven four twenty four to twenty four. That's six one
six seven seven four twenty four to twenty four to
(30:53):
get your question, comment or concerned on the air. So
why is it that what everybody says is wrong all
the time? Have you noticed that? I mean, that's what
this is. This is sort of the don't do things
the way everybody else does them. Everybody else is wrong.
I'm the only smart guy in the room, et cetera, cetera.
I mean, maybe I deserve to be taken off the air.
(31:13):
I don't know. Anyway, the point is, all right, why
do we not do what everybody tells you to do
with your life insurance beneficiaries, with your pay on death accounts,
about all all that kind of stuff. And I got
to tell you it was it was really fun. I
was to go to these senior expos you know, because
that's where you guys like to hang out. Anyway, I'm
(31:35):
talking with the one kid was thirty, the other one
was like thirty two. They're investment advisors. It's like, what
kind of investment advice you're going to take from a
thirty two year old? You know, what the hell do
they know? But anyway, very nice kid, very nice, and
oh I think trusts are overrated. I don't know why
everyone does trust. Oh you really, you don't need to trust.
(31:56):
Well an hour and a half later, they were, you know,
they were like so all on the road to Damascus.
I knocked them off their high horse, and they were
out to preach the gospel of beneficiary designations being running
them through the trust the way it should be, not
the way everybody does it, because every financially here's the thing,
(32:18):
it's reasonable for the financial advisors to say, do not
make your trust the beneficiary. It's reasonable for them to
say that because most people screw it up. And by
people I mean attorneys. Yes, we're people too, but most
of the time it's screwed up because most of the
time the estate plan says, give all the money directly
to the beneficiary. Okay, now void prob you know, get
(32:43):
it to the beneficiary. That's what you want to do,
and it's just totally wrong. It's just my opinion. It's like, no,
you don't want the money to go directly to the beneficiary, right,
I mean, you don't know what's going to happen later
on today, let alone three years from now. Oh, my
kids are responsible, I'm sure they are. So. That means
(33:06):
they can't get into car accidents, they can't get divorced.
COVID will never come back and wipe out sixty percent
of small businesses. They'll never a co signed student loan.
That I mean, nothing bad will ever happen to your kids. Oh?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Sure? Sure?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Who believes that? Okay, Well a lot of people believe
it when it comes time to look in ahead because
it's overwhelming because frankly, we don't know what's coming next, right,
and because we don't know what's coming next, and and
we can't do anything about it, which is what most
people think. You can't do anything about it? Well, look,
(33:40):
I don't worry about things I can't know? Is that prayer?
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Right?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
The you know, courage to change the things I can't
you know, wisdom to know the difference, right, I mean,
you know, accept the things that can't change, sermenity to
accept the things that can't change, right, all that kind
of stuff. I get that if you can't change it,
then you have no obligation to change it. You have
no responsibility to change it. But and what happens is
(34:05):
the whole wisdom to know the difference, right, that part
of that prayer, right, the whole wisdom to know the difference.
And what everybody says is, oh, there's nothing you can
do about it. There's nothing you can do about it.
That isn't true. It's not even close to being true.
There's all kinds of things you can do to plan
ahead for when your beneficiaries receive whatever is left. It
(34:27):
can be a stepping stool, stepstone, stepping stone, I don't
know whatever. It can be a foundation for the future,
or it can be one more mistake, frustration, et cetera.
And too often it turns into the frustration because oh,
I almost got the money. The creditor's got it, Dad's
creditors got the money, mom's creditors got the money, or
(34:49):
the nursing home got the money, or somebody else got
the money, the money that in past generations would be
there to cement the future for the family. Okay, screw
the kids. I'm not in favor of you living your
life for your kids. You should live your life for yourself.
But but knowing you as I do, it's only been
(35:11):
thirty five years, all right of intense study. Right, you're
not gonna go broke. You're gonna leave something for the kids.
All right, you are going to do that. The question
is not will you, right, The question is how will you?
If it's all possible, you're gonna do it. Okay, So
how do you do that? And the answer is you
don't put their names on the accounts, because that way
(35:34):
you don't know what the heck is coming on. You
have no idea, right, and there's no protection for the kid.
You're already doing a trust, you're already doing an estate plan.
Why not do it right? Wow, there's a crazy idea.
I'm actually gonna do something. No, I'll do it wrong?
What what? Anyway, here's how you do it right. What
(35:57):
you say is you make your trust beneficiary of all
these accounts, and you make your trust so that it
is not answered. This is the protection trust, the root
seller trust that we do, not a revocable living trust,
not the typical thing. But the one that protects you
from long term care also protects your beneficiaries, right, number one,
(36:18):
it protects what you have from your creditors after death.
Does that, but then also also it protects your beneficiaries. Hello,
your beneficiaries, you know. And people are like, oh, well,
I don't really care. All we did ooh no, I
don't care what happens. Jeff Grog did. And you know what,
you know my challenge that for the thirty five years
has been oh, you don't care. Huh oh no, I
(36:41):
don't care.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
If the kids get the money, that's great. If they
don't get the money, that's great. I don't really care.
So I say, okay, great, I'll write myself in as
your beneficiary. Let's make David Carrier your beneficiary and all
the stuff, all right. Ooh I don't want to do that. Yeah, No,
nobody's ever been. No one's ever taken me up on
(37:02):
my offer. You know, Hey, make me the beneficiary. Boy,
I'll be grateful. No, not so not so much. Okay,
so you actually do care about what happens at least
a little bit, why not do it?
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Why not do it? So that number one, it avoids
your own creditors. So whatever you've whatever you're intending to
leave to the next generation, right, which you can do
with life insurance and paying death right. What if we
got that good But that's a good thing. That's a
good thing. Voice probate quickly, voice creditors. Great, let's take
(37:37):
that part of it. Okay, but then let's also be intentional, thoughtful, purposeful, right, beneficial.
That's the word for that next generation is Well, let's
do it correctly and wrap it in a trust. Now,
sixty percent of our beneficiaries do not want the protection
(37:58):
that's offered by that trust. Sixty stuff like that. Okay,
they just don't want it, all right, Fine. That means
I got forty percent of people who are either going
through some trouble and we just save the inheritance because
we did it this way, and some percentage of people
who are thinking ahead, we're using that inheritance as a foundation. Now,
(38:20):
you can always require that they do it as a foundation,
you know that you do it so that the kids
actually be smart about it. Very few people want to
do that. Very few my experience, people don't want to
do that. They want to Hey, let the kids do whateverything.
I'm fine with it. Let them blow the money, right,
but I'm not trying to protect most cases. Sometimes we
(38:43):
are trying to protect it from the kids, but usually
we're trying to protect it for the kids, all right.
We're trying to make it possible, make it inevitable that
the kids will actually get the money. And when we've
got people now who are dying in their nineties and
they got kids in their sixties, the whole long term
care thing is now a real thing once again. So
(39:05):
that's what we're talking about. If you have a question
about how that works, give us a call. Sixty one
six seven seven four twenty four, twenty four. I'm David Carrier.
You're listening to the David Carrier Show.
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and you have found the place
where we talk about a state planning, elder law, real
estate and business law. So if you have a question,
a comment, or concern about wills, trusts or probate. If
you're wondering how do we beat the high cost of
(00:41):
long term care? You know it's only six hundred bucks
a night. Well, what have you ever been in a
hotel that costs six hundred dollars a night? Oh oh,
let's go to a cheap place, all right, forget about
the nice places. Let's go to a Let's go to
a cheap long term care facility because there's only four
hundred and fifty dollars a night. Yeah, yeah, See. Here's
(01:05):
the thing. Regular folks like you, I dare say, will
never go broke on your own. It won't happen. You
won't quilt that much, you won't fish that much. You
won't you won't go broke, won't go to the casino
that much. People with savings, people who've been, you know,
doing the righteous thing right, you will not go broke
(01:27):
in that way. You'll never go broke voluntarily. You know why,
because you will figure it away around it, whether it's
beans and rice or taking a second job or you know,
things that you did already, right, being frugal with your
retirement spending all the rest, but you'll figure away. Long
term care is different. Long term care says, give me
(01:48):
the money, and give me the money, honey, and don't stop,
you know, until you're dead, and then broke or usually
broke comes first. So that's why we do the planning
for the long term care. That's why is state planning
that doesn't address long term care is not a state
planning at all. I don't even know what the heck
it is. I mean, I think it's just nonsense. I
(02:10):
mean I really do. And it's like, oh, that's not customary. Yeah,
I know it's not customary. I get it. Yeah, I
know this is not what everybody's doing. But but for
thirty five years. You know, we've helped what tens of
thousands of families get their estate planning doing fright, and
we haven't been customary for ten minutes of it. So anyway,
(02:32):
that's the whole idea of the long term care stuff.
If you don't take care of that, you haven't taken
care of anything. You haven't take care of yourself, you
haven't taken care of your spouse. That's not how you
lived your life, you know. And yeah, I mean we
all hate to take government benefits, but those aren't government benefits.
Government doesn't have the money. It just gets the money
(02:52):
from you, duh. I mean, where do you think it
gets it from. It ain't the rich people. It ain't
the poor people. It's the middle class people. You know why,
because we don't move fast enough those rich folks they do.
So anyway, that's why we're doing estate planning right and
the state planning elder law, you know, retirement law right.
(03:13):
How do we make sure that your retirement is what
you've earned not? You know, we're not looking for any
handouts here, and we're not looking for any special treatment.
All we want is the same deal you're willing to
give everybody else. We also deal with real estate. Real estate. Hey,
market's coming back. Market's coming back? Why because the interest
rates are going down a little bit anyway, And then
(03:35):
of course we've got business law. So you know, COVID
only wiped out sixty of small businesses and left some gaps.
There also a lot of boarded up downtowns that will
never come back. You know, the whole riots and all
that kind of thing. Terrible stuff. Well, I mean, just
go to Detroit. I mean the sixty seven riots are
still front and center right there. So anyway, give us
(03:58):
a call sixty one six seven seven for twenty four
twenty four. That's six one six seven seven four twenty
four to twenty four. We'll get your question, comment or
concerned on the air. And hey, how about that Middle
East peace? Huh? You know, years ago we had the
Abraham of Corridge, which laid the groundwork and horrific stuff.
Two years ago that has been and looks like now
(04:22):
we're we're finally coming around, right of course, the only
still some hitches and glitches. You know, imagine that. Imagine
you took a bunch of the hostages, killed them and
they couldn't remember where you put the bodies. Apparently that's
the problem they've gotten now they killed the hostages, and now,
you know, last time, last time, they gave back remains
(04:44):
of people who weren't hostages and turned out to be
other people. And I think part of the problem I
don't I can't see where the I can't see where
the advantage is and giving back the wrong bodies or remains,
which is what they're doing. I don't see what the
advantage is. I suspect I suspect they just don't know.
(05:08):
I suspect that. You know, it's not like they you know,
it's not like they kept records of that stuff or
we're particularly careful, particularly careful about it. So anyway, that's uh.
But basically, it seems to be a lot of celebration
and stuff like that. Everybody seems to be rejoicing that. Finally,
that's uh, that seems to be drawing to a close.
(05:28):
Let's hope. So let's hope those Abraham Accords spread throughout
the Middle East, and you know, finally a region of
the world which has been you know, let's face it,
front and center in terms of death and destruction and
all the rest of it. You know, let's get some
good middle class values over there. What do you say,
You know, maybe people work hard and you know, instead
(05:50):
of building tunnels, they build houses and schools, you know,
teach each other to love one another. That would be
that would be wonderful. So good stuff happening, good stuff happening,
and charity begins at home. Good stuff begins at home.
That's what I always say, if you get your stuff together.
The basic building block of our society is the family, right,
(06:11):
your family, So how can we make sure that your
family continues to grow? And it's a difficult environment even
over here. I mean, obviously we don't have except in
certain cities. We don't have people blowing stuff up except
in certain cities. But that seems to be resolving itself,
or being resolved, I might say. Anyway, the question is
(06:34):
how do you how do we as family members, how
do we support our families? Because if we don't do it,
no one's going to No one else is going to anyway,
that's not the that's the American way, that's how we
that's how we've done it. But how can you do
that if leaving stuff to the next generation is no
part of the equation. Now, I always say, screw the kids, right,
(06:58):
I always say you got to take care of yourself first,
and I never back off of that because you do
have to take care of yourself first, all right. You
do have to take care of yourself, your spouse, that's
the primary responsibility. But you know, kids these days are
in a different situation than we were growing up, than
you were than I was. If you think about what
(07:19):
a house used to cost, think about how much you
paid for your first house. Imagine you were starting out
right now, how are you going to pay a quarter
million dollars for a house? You know, and that's like
the medium price, And if you want something kind of nice,
well add a few hundred thousands to it, because you're
going to be doing that very quickly. Same way with education, gosh,
(07:41):
I mean, you used to be able to work your
way through and that was a real That was a
real thing. Working your way through college, working your way
through law school, what have you. You know, that was a
real thing. How do you do it now when it's
you know, tens of thousands of dollars? You can't you know,
you can't deliver that many pizzas. Sorry, it's tough. It's tough,
(08:05):
and so families need to be looking out for their
family members. You know, it's the way the middle class
has always kind of perpetuated itself. What's different today is
number one, everything's more expensive. That's different. The other thing
that's different has to do with the long term care.
You know, there's a reason why it's so expensive for
(08:29):
long term care, and the reason, like everything else, we
can blame the boomers for it. Right We showed up,
and they're an awful lot of us who showed up,
a lot of us baby boomers, And we're at the
point right now where we're starting to need and have been,
you know, depending on how you measure it for the
last ten years. I guess the need for baby boomers
(08:51):
to receive care is just mounting. I mean, it's just continuing,
and we're not dying as quickly as previous generations. There's
a lot of these statistics that that we use. For example,
the National Institute of Health says, on average, at sixty five,
you'll need three years of skilled care, and most of
that will not be professional care, most of that would
(09:12):
be family members, et cetera. But I really have to
doubt that anymore because it was based on I mean,
those are historic numbers, okay, where most of the care
that people receive was not paid for professional care. It
was family. It was family providing that care at home care. Well,
there's two things that have happened over the last thirty
(09:35):
years that didn't happen as they were developing those numbers,
and the first is divorce. All right, have people get divorced?
What does that mean? I mean it's for an awful
lot of people. You don't have a spouse, you know,
who's caring about you as much as they're caring about themselves.
They're not there. Okay, So there's one major source of
care that isn't there or to the extent that used
(09:57):
to be. The other is you didn't have as many
kids as your parents did either, right, And because there's
fewer kids and fewer spouses, I think that's I think
that what that's going to show, that's going to result
in is much more professional care. And you see it.
The demand for care is through the roof, but the
supply of caregivers, the supply of people who provide the
(10:19):
care is down. Well, everybody knows when demand goes up
and supply goes down, price goes through the roof. That's
what we're experiencing right now, and that is what's cutting
the middle class off of the generationally, cutting the middle
class off at the knees. What we've been doing now
for thirty five years is struggling against that. That's what
(10:41):
the our whole purpose is not the whole purpose, but
it's the first primary goal. Make sure you don't go broke,
because in this environment, that's just that's just the way
it is. And I can't see it getting better. It
just seems like it's going to be eventually, thirty years
from now we'll be wondering what we have all these
nurse homes.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
Four.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
But today you've been listening to the David Carrier Show.
I'm David Carrier, your famili's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven four twenty four
to twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your famili's personal attorney. Now is the time give us
a call. Sixty one six seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. That's six one, six seven seven four, twenty four,
twenty four, we've got Scott on the line. Hello Scott,
Welcome to the David Carrier Show, and.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
Good morning, mister Carrier. And in honor of our friends
to the north, happy Canadian Thanksgiving given us the day early.
Speaker 2 (11:46):
All right, first of your Canadian what do you get
to give Thanksgiving for?
Speaker 3 (11:51):
Anyway?
Speaker 2 (11:55):
I say that as I say that as a grandson
of French Canadians.
Speaker 3 (11:59):
All right.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Actually are Irish my Irish, well on both sides actually
because my uh, my Irish forebears were what we call
shanty Irish. We were not lace curtain Irish with a
shanty Irish. And so we took the we took the
trip from Liverpool to uh to what is it New
Brunswick or whatever I mean. The we took the quick route,
(12:22):
you know, the short one, and they stayed up there
for a couple of generations. And then on the French side,
same deal. So anyway, we love our neighbors to the north,
and happy Thanksgiving or whatever you have to give thanks for.
Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, no, uh, quick quick question. This is this This
is just uh, I don't know, maybe it's uh, it's
a curiosity if a payable on death designation like on
a bank account or investment account. Okay, different has different
beneficiaries than what's in a will. Is that ever a
basis for I don't know, complex to challenge, you know, well,
(13:00):
what do we take the precedent that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah, the payables do the when you said payables, I
thought you meant that's owed by you know, something that
they didn't pay out, but no pay on death beneficiary
designations and like insurance designations all right, like if you
have if you've named someone on an insurance pot. We've
had this situation where they wanted to change the beneficiaries, right,
(13:27):
and the change of beneficiary they died before the change
of beneficiary form made it to the made it to
the insurance company, and federal law basically says that if
it hasn't been processed by the insurance company, then you
go with whatever is on the You go with whatever
is on the policy, and there's no way there's the
(13:48):
insurance aspectuse We we've had a couple of cases like
that over the years, you know, where somebody changed it
but for whatever reason, the insurance company didn't get through
the processing it and uh, you know, not effective. Same
way with with the other pay on death. Pay on
death does beneficiary designations. Yeah, you're you go buy what's
(14:13):
on there and you can try to fight it, but
you're gonna lose.
Speaker 3 (14:18):
No curiosity question if there's that, if there's those inconsistencies
like that, you know, if there's if it's ever been
used as a basis for say, challenging a will because
the beneficiaries and the will were much different than the
pay on death beneficiaries like that, I'm just curious.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, yeah, and and to your point, has it been used. Yeah,
it's been used, and it gets raised every once in
a while, but then it gets slapped down again. See
here's the here's the here's the problem. This is why,
this is why we never do pay on death. Okay,
because with pay on death, you've got to there's two
things going on with pay on death. Number One, it's
(14:58):
bad for the person who died because now their wishes
are not honored because you've got to go through that process.
And you'd be surprised. You might be surprised. I don't know.
I was surprised at how many people beneficiary designation here,
beneficiary designation there, and they don't even know who's getting what.
(15:19):
You ask them, what's your distribution plan? Well, and then
it turns out that their names on CDs. You know
of people that don't like anymore. You know. It's so
my whole philosophy is one one distribution plan. So everything
goes into the trust, and then everything comes out of
the trust. And if you want to change who gets what,
(15:41):
or their proportions or what have you, then you adjust
the trust. Okay, you're still going to avoid probate. And
so that's the first aspect of it. Now you get
a lot of people who say, oh, that's a bad idea,
because what they're talking about are the kinds of trust
that they're doing. The trust is liable for the person's debts,
(16:06):
the deceedents debts when they die. Okay, so if you
owe money to somebody and you have a life insurance policy,
when you name the person on the life insurance policy
right as a beneficiary, the money is going to the beneficiary,
no matter how much money the decedent owes to third parties. Okay,
(16:29):
so you're in debt up to your eyeballs, but you
have a life insurance policy you leave to your kid.
Your kid is still getting the money the debt. The
creditors are not getting the money. Now, that's why people
will frequently say, do not give your money to a
you know, do not make a revocable trust the beneficiary
(16:50):
because the revocable living trust typically and can be by
order responsible for your debts. Okay, because you have control
over it. Well, the trust that we do not only
protects you from long term care, but also after death.
It's not responsible for the debts of the grand tour. Okay.
(17:11):
What that means is that you can put life insurance
proceeds into the trust, okay, and it is not going
to be subject to your creditors. So you still get
the benefit that you always had with life insurance pay
on death right, which is it passes free and clear
of the claims of the creditors. That's what you want.
(17:32):
But here's the other thing that it does, and this
is another reason why it's so important to make a
trust the beneficiary not an individual, because it's not just
the person who died that has financial obligations. Okay, it's
not just that person, it's also the person who receives
the money. So you're like, oh boy, my business failed,
(17:56):
I went through bankruptcy. And now I'm going to get
a big chunk of money from my dad's life insurance.
And then the money shows up, Well, who do you
think it's the money? It isn't you, it's your creditors.
It's the bankruptcy court. All right, bad idea. We don't
like that. So what we do instead is when the
(18:16):
money goes out to the beneficiary, right, we wrap it
in a trust. And when you do that, it's called
the third party discretionary trust. When you do that right,
nobody can break it. We have more, you know, the MDOC,
the Michigan Department of Corrections. We've got prisoners right whose
(18:37):
mom set up the trust just the normal way we
do it. They can't touch the money. Bankruptcy can't touch
the money. Divorce can't touch the money. Car accident. There's
all kinds of things that you can do, in my opinion,
should do for your beneficiaries. Like it wasn't hard. It
wasn't easy to keep the money if you've got death,
not easy, you know, to prepare for that next generation.
(19:00):
And the worst is the worst is they don't even
get it. It goes to their creditors and doesn't do
the Malicka good you see. Well, I tell you what.
We're gonna explore that a little bit more in the
next segment because it is so important and people just
blow it off and as a count and like I
was saying in the in the first segment, really important
(19:22):
that we prepare for that next generation because they really
do have it more difficult than we did. Oh, music
means I need to get out, Scott.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
But thanks for coving me.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yep, yep, yep, appreciate it. You're listening to the David
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier. Your family's personal a tern.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
David's got the how too you're looking for Just call
seven seven twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier.
Your family please, personal attorney. Thank you to our caller Scott,
who's wondering about, Hey, what about those pay on death
beneficiary designations? Does a will overrule those or a trust
over rul thos? And the answer is no, You're stuck
with the beneficiary designations. Okay, So two problems with that.
(20:20):
Number One is this, Oh you gotta say this six
one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four. That's
six one, six, seven, seven four twenty four twenty four.
Give us a call if you'd like. You don't have
to listen to me yak at the yak, you can
interrupt and we'll talk about something interesting to you. Eh, eh,
what a deal. Unbelievably wonderful. Anyway, there's so there's that.
(20:43):
Also if you go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com,
Squish it all together David Carrier Law dot com and
at the website David carry Law dot com is our amazing,
wonderful super duper gets better all the time. And it
really does get better all the time. Artificial intelligence AI assistant. Okay,
(21:04):
so have you ever gone to a website? It's like
you start clicking around, It's like where are that? Where
can I find anything that's useful here? All right, well, okay,
we've we've had that problem too. You know, how do
you make your website useful? How do you like get
out some information that people might be interested in and
(21:26):
the rumors that you know? Have you seen those baby
videos where the AI takes people and they tournament to
babies and then they use their voice, but it's a
baby talking. Have you have you seen those? I think
they're funny as funny as hell. Anyway, we're not going
to do that, sorry. So you can go to the
website and this AI assistant thing and you can like
(21:49):
talk to it. You can actually talk to it. There's
a click the button there and you can talk to it,
or you can just type in and we have a
number of frequently asked questions where if you click on it,
it'll give you the frequently given answer, but then you
can make it more specific for your own situation. Right,
So go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com. And
(22:11):
that thing's getting better all the time. It really, it
really is.
Speaker 3 (22:14):
Now.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
It's not legal advice obviously. For that you need you know,
what is it to error as human, to really screw
things up, you need a computer. So anyway, don't rely
on that for absolute whatever. But it's interesting stuff. Makes
it easy to find stuff and can get and get
some answers to your questions. Okay, so I had to
(22:37):
take that. Oh plus the workshops, Yes, the workshops we
do every week every week the Good Lord brings and
twice on Sundays. Those are the workshops in Norton Shores
in Holland Grand Rapids in Portage, and now we're we're
looking at schedule in the next couple of months, out and
back out and lancing again. We've gotten we're working with
(22:59):
the r people out there have been for a couple
of years, and you know, they're like, oh, why don't
We've been getting calls, so why don't you come to
Lansing anymore? And it's like, well, because it's a long
way away. But anyway, it seems like it seems like
people want us to do that. It's okay, fine, we'll
(23:19):
do it. Why not. That's that's coming down the pike,
all right, So let's talk about oh yeah and call
us six one, six, seven, seven four, twenty four, twenty four.
Now the question is how do we get stuff to
that next generation. Remember I was saying, oh, you know,
(23:39):
kids these days, kids these days, they got to pay
ten times what you paid for a house. Apparently for
my high school senior. You know, we're comparing tuition costs,
and it's about twenty times what I paid twenty times,
not not fifty percent more, not half again as much,
(24:00):
not twice as much, twenty times two zero times as much.
It's it's it's it's staggering, is what it is. And
while you know, I'm very uh see, here's the thing.
Here's the thing. I would bet that people of a
certain age, which would include myself, will probably include you.
(24:25):
We shovel snow, we delivered newspapers. I was talking to
a guy the other day, a lawyer, as it happens,
and we were comparing paper roads and goes, yeah, well
I had a three three hundred page paper route delivered
an old Volkswagen bug. And it's like, okay, well I
wasn't old enough to drive, and I didn't have a
rural rote like you did. I had one hundred papers
(24:47):
in the city. So but you know, you're but there
was there is that shared shared experience of making money
delivering newspapers, shoveling snow, doing washing dishes, doing whatever, and
and it made a difference. Okay, you could make a
difference doing that kind of thing if you wanted to
go to college or what have you. So, but nowadays
(25:12):
it's just it doesn't it doesn't compute, you know, it
doesn't it You can't do it right, I mean, it
doesn't make a different. Now is it still good to work? Yes,
it's good to work? Is it good to learn how
to show up and somebody tell you to you know,
no soup for you or whatever, you know, to make
the donuts or wash the dishes or whatever. Is that good? Yeah?
(25:35):
I think that's really good. I think it is. I
think it's important that you know that you earn your
own money and all the rest. I think that's important.
But let's not kid ourselves that it's possible anymore to
work your way through school, which I think is more
important now. So that next generation kind of thing. So
that's what I'm talking about, and probably for the rest
(25:56):
of the show, or at least the is this hour.
So when you deal with investment advisors, insurance agents, what
have you, they've all been trained and doctrinated whatever you
want to say, not to make a trust the beneficiary
of the especially of life insurance, especially of life insurance
(26:18):
annuities that kindom because those things pass right without the
claims of the creditors. They pass without the claims of
the you know, they avoid the claims of the credit
They go directly to the beneficiary. So this is why
the investment advisors, insurance agents, typical estate planning. Oh that's
(26:45):
super good. Which it is super good. Your beneficiary will
definitely get the money, okay, free and clear of any
claims that you may have. So that's that's a good thing,
you want that. But what it ignores is the fact
that the recipient is typically in more difficult straits than
(27:06):
the person giving them the money than the deceding. The
person who just died, right, the person getting is in
worse financial shape than the person giving. And so what
you see a lot of is people who get an inheritance.
And I'm not saying they're irresponsible with them to saying
that at all, the opposite. They want to be responsible.
(27:26):
They want that nest egg to be a foundation going forward.
But they can't do it. They can't do it because
somebody else swoops in and takes the house, or takes
the money, or takes the insurance proceeds or what have you.
Speaker 1 (27:42):
Do.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
You see the life insurance, the pay on death beneficiary
designations that everybody thinks it's so wonderful. Is wonderful as
far as the person who died is concerned. Okay, because
it gets it to that beneficiary. It does do that, yes,
it does do that. But the problem is the beneficiary
(28:03):
isn't ready to take it. And the worst thing, in
my opinion, is where you've got people who are doing
in a state plan. And what you see over and
over again is even if, even if they didn't give
it directly to the beneficiary, which a big mistake, what
if they ran it through the trust doesn't help because
(28:24):
what the trust says is give it directly to the
beneficiary without considering what the circumstances are of the beneficiary. See,
if you've got someone who's bank in bankruptcy right or
beset by all sides, by creditors, it doesn't help. It
doesn't help to give them money because if you give
(28:45):
them money directly, who's going to get the money? The creditors.
And you don't want you don't want to pay for
your beneficiaries past mistakes. That's what you wind up doing.
You're paying for that mistakes they may ten years ago,
twenty years ago, student loan debt, whatever it may be, Okay,
you're not. Instead, what you want to do is provide
(29:09):
a foundation for them to make positive changes moving on.
Do you see you don't want to fix fix the crime,
you know, and it doesn't benefit of them at all,
There's no benefit. It's like, okay, well those people are happy. Now, okay,
well what about the beneficiars. Beneficiary better off? No, beneficiary
(29:31):
is not better off. The creditors are. Their creditors are happy,
but it doesn't help your family member. Okay. So the
question is how do we make sure that the real
benefit goes to your family member? And that's what we'll
talk about next. Hint, it isn't by making them beneficiary
on the account. It isn't by pay on death. That's
(29:51):
Lady Bird deeds another one. I mean, that is not
how you do it. You have to be more thoughtful,
more intentional. I'm David Carrier, family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (30:02):
David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now, this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. I just heard an ad from
Sean Hannity talking about how you know, people try to
take them off the air, just like they did with
Rustling Baugh and et cetera, et cetera. And you know,
I'm I'm right in there. People keep trying to take
me off the air too, But that'sus. The show is
kind of lousy and I'm not very good at it.
(30:32):
There's nothing noble about it. But anyway, so they're trying
to take it's all off the air, but different reasons.
So but you know, it's like the midiary writer. You know,
they haven't caught me yet anyway, six one six seven
seven four twenty four to twenty four. That's six one
six seven seven four twenty four to twenty four to
(30:53):
get your question, comment or concerned on the air. So
why is it that what everybody says is wrong all
the time? Have you noticed that? I mean, that's what
this is. This is sort of the don't do things
the way everybody else does them. Everybody else is wrong.
I'm the only smart guy in the room, et cetera, cetera.
I mean, maybe I deserve to be taken off the air.
(31:13):
I don't know. Anyway, the point is, all right, why
do we not do what everybody tells you to do
with your life insurance beneficiaries, with your pay on death accounts,
about all all that kind of stuff. And I got
to tell you it was it was really fun. I
was to go to these senior expos you know, because
that's where you guys like to hang out. Anyway, I'm
(31:35):
talking with the one kid was thirty, the other one
was like thirty two. They're investment advisors. It's like, what
kind of investment advice you're going to take from a
thirty two year old? You know, what the hell do
they know? But anyway, very nice kid, very nice, and
oh I think trusts are overrated. I don't know why
everyone does trust. Oh you really, you don't need to trust.
(31:56):
Well an hour and a half later, they were, you know,
they were like so all on the road to Damascus.
I knocked them off their high horse, and they were
out to preach the gospel of beneficiary designations being running
them through the trust the way it should be, not
the way everybody does it, because every financially here's the thing,
(32:18):
it's reasonable for the financial advisors to say, do not
make your trust the beneficiary. It's reasonable for them to
say that because most people screw it up. And by
people I mean attorneys. Yes, we're people too, but most
of the time it's screwed up because most of the
time the estate plan says, give all the money directly
to the beneficiary. Okay, now void prob you know, get
(32:43):
it to the beneficiary. That's what you want to do,
and it's just totally wrong. It's just my opinion. It's like, no,
you don't want the money to go directly to the beneficiary, right,
I mean, you don't know what's going to happen later
on today, let alone three years from now. Oh, my
kids are responsible, I'm sure they are. So. That means
(33:06):
they can't get into car accidents, they can't get divorced.
COVID will never come back and wipe out sixty percent
of small businesses. They'll never a co signed student loan.
That I mean, nothing bad will ever happen to your kids. Oh?
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Sure? Sure?
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Who believes that? Okay, Well a lot of people believe
it when it comes time to look in ahead because
it's overwhelming because frankly, we don't know what's coming next, right,
and because we don't know what's coming next, and and
we can't do anything about it, which is what most
people think. You can't do anything about it? Well, look,
(33:40):
I don't worry about things I can't know? Is that prayer?
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Right?
Speaker 2 (33:44):
The you know, courage to change the things I can't
you know, wisdom to know the difference, right, I mean,
you know, accept the things that can't change, sermenity to
accept the things that can't change, right, all that kind
of stuff. I get that if you can't change it,
then you have no obligation to change it. You have
no responsibility to change it. But and what happens is
(34:05):
the whole wisdom to know the difference, right, that part
of that prayer, right, the whole wisdom to know the difference.
And what everybody says is, oh, there's nothing you can
do about it. There's nothing you can do about it.
That isn't true. It's not even close to being true.
There's all kinds of things you can do to plan
ahead for when your beneficiaries receive whatever is left. It
(34:27):
can be a stepping stool, stepstone, stepping stone, I don't
know whatever. It can be a foundation for the future,
or it can be one more mistake, frustration, et cetera.
And too often it turns into the frustration because oh,
I almost got the money. The creditor's got it, Dad's
creditors got the money, mom's creditors got the money, or
(34:49):
the nursing home got the money, or somebody else got
the money, the money that in past generations would be
there to cement the future for the family. Okay, screw
the kids. I'm not in favor of you living your
life for your kids. You should live your life for yourself.
But but knowing you as I do, it's only been
(35:11):
thirty five years, all right of intense study. Right, you're
not gonna go broke. You're gonna leave something for the kids.
All right, you are going to do that. The question
is not will you, right, The question is how will you?
If it's all possible, you're gonna do it. Okay, So
how do you do that? And the answer is you
don't put their names on the accounts, because that way
(35:34):
you don't know what the heck is coming on. You
have no idea, right, and there's no protection for the kid.
You're already doing a trust, you're already doing an estate plan.
Why not do it right? Wow, there's a crazy idea.
I'm actually gonna do something. No, I'll do it wrong?
What what? Anyway, here's how you do it right. What
(35:57):
you say is you make your trust beneficiary of all
these accounts, and you make your trust so that it
is not answered. This is the protection trust, the root
seller trust that we do, not a revocable living trust,
not the typical thing. But the one that protects you
from long term care also protects your beneficiaries, right, number one,
(36:18):
it protects what you have from your creditors after death.
Does that, but then also also it protects your beneficiaries. Hello,
your beneficiaries, you know. And people are like, oh, well,
I don't really care. All we did ooh no, I
don't care what happens. Jeff Grog did. And you know what,
you know my challenge that for the thirty five years
has been oh, you don't care. Huh oh no, I
(36:41):
don't care.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
You know.
Speaker 2 (36:42):
If the kids get the money, that's great. If they
don't get the money, that's great. I don't really care.
So I say, okay, great, I'll write myself in as
your beneficiary. Let's make David Carrier your beneficiary and all
the stuff, all right. Ooh I don't want to do that. Yeah, No,
nobody's ever been. No one's ever taken me up on
(37:02):
my offer. You know, Hey, make me the beneficiary. Boy,
I'll be grateful. No, not so not so much. Okay,
so you actually do care about what happens at least
a little bit, why not do it?
Speaker 3 (37:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (37:15):
Why not do it? So that number one, it avoids
your own creditors. So whatever you've whatever you're intending to
leave to the next generation, right, which you can do
with life insurance and paying death right. What if we
got that good But that's a good thing. That's a
good thing. Voice probate quickly, voice creditors. Great, let's take
(37:37):
that part of it. Okay, but then let's also be intentional, thoughtful, purposeful, right, beneficial.
That's the word for that next generation is Well, let's
do it correctly and wrap it in a trust. Now,
sixty percent of our beneficiaries do not want the protection
(37:58):
that's offered by that trust. Sixty stuff like that. Okay,
they just don't want it, all right, Fine. That means
I got forty percent of people who are either going
through some trouble and we just save the inheritance because
we did it this way, and some percentage of people
who are thinking ahead, we're using that inheritance as a foundation. Now,
(38:20):
you can always require that they do it as a foundation,
you know that you do it so that the kids
actually be smart about it. Very few people want to
do that. Very few my experience, people don't want to
do that. They want to Hey, let the kids do whateverything.
I'm fine with it. Let them blow the money, right,
but I'm not trying to protect most cases. Sometimes we
(38:43):
are trying to protect it from the kids, but usually
we're trying to protect it for the kids, all right.
We're trying to make it possible, make it inevitable that
the kids will actually get the money. And when we've
got people now who are dying in their nineties and
they got kids in their sixties, the whole long term
care thing is now a real thing once again. So
(39:05):
that's what we're talking about. If you have a question
about how that works, give us a call. Sixty one
six seven seven four twenty four, twenty four. I'm David Carrier.
You're listening to the David Carrier Show.
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