Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
family's personal attorney. Now is the time Give us a
call six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
At six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four,
give us a call. We'll get your question, comment or
concern on the air. Very easy to do. That's because
(00:46):
we like things that are easy to do, don't we. Well,
if we can make them, we can't make him easy.
We always remember what Einstein said. Do you remember Einstein.
He was a guy with the funny hair, you know,
kind of a smart guy, you might say, And his
advice was things should be as simple as possible, but
not more simple. And what he meant by that was
(01:08):
do what you gotta do, but don't make things complex
for no good reason. That kind of makes sense, doesn't
it anyway, Whether it's a state planning, elder law, real
estate or business law. Now's the time. Give us a
call six one six seven seven four twenty four, twenty four.
We'll get your question, comment or concern on the area.
(01:30):
It is just that easy, that easy, I don't know,
because we like you or something maybe, And of course.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
The state planning is those approbate.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
We also do elder law. Elder law is that part
where I don't know if anyone even noticed this. I
certainly have not. But as people get older, you know,
their ability to do things changes. You may have noticed this,
not in yourself, of course, but I'm talking about somebody else,
(02:03):
maybe a friend, a neighbor, or your spouse. Things do change,
and at some point many of us do need more
care than otherwise. I was just listening to a to
a to a ad about needing hearing aids in dementia.
Oh my goodness. You really think hearing aids put off dementia?
(02:24):
Do you believe that? Is that possible? You know, if
you have a hearing aid you're not going to get dementia.
Let me tell you it doesn't work like that. But
that's not to say anything against hearing aids, because here's
the deal. It's why you should always get hearing aids
whenever you you know, if you have any issue at
all with your with your with your hearing or whatever,
(02:47):
the reason you should run to get hearing aids. And
our advertisers, of course I have the very finest, but
the reason you should run to get hearing aids is
not because they cause dementia or anything else. But if
you're always missing the point, okay, because you can't hear
what the point is, or if you're always asking people
(03:10):
to repeat, or if you're too proud to say that
you didn't hear and you respond, you know, hey, dad,
would you move the television and you say turkey, we
had that for Thanksgiving or whatever, then they're going to
think you're demented even if you're you see, and it
(03:32):
wasn't really an issue with age if you look into that.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
There have been studies, but.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Eventually, if you look into that, it's not a matter
of oh, no, you know, the hearing aids cured the dementia.
You know, oh, Alzheimer's.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Fault for you know, improved oral whatever a you are
a companience, that's not the deal.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
What's going on is that people just think you're demented,
you know, because you respond inappropriately or not at all
or like that. Plus, if you can't hear very well,
you don't socialize very much. Are you with me on this?
You tend to withdraw and that's not good for anybody.
(04:19):
So it's not like it's not like hearing age cure
dementia or anything like that. What's going on is the
perception of dementia. And if you want to hang out
with your grandkids, is the first thing to go, all right,
is not your knees. The first thing to go is
your grand because they won't trust you with the grandkids anymore. Well,
(04:44):
you know, Dad was talking about we were talking about whatever,
and he thought we were talking about something completely different.
Goo goo goo goo. Right time for time for him,
you know, time to Oh you really got to put
him away anyway. So that's one thing that a's news
(05:05):
you can use, okay. If and also if you think
your parents are losing it, maybe they are. It does happen,
but maybe they just can't hear you, okay, So you know,
consider that consider that possibility. There you go, see, And
that's one of those things. Things should be as complex
(05:27):
as possible, but not more complex maybe the problem is
they just can't hear you. You say, that's a simple
solution to what you thought was a terrorific, terrific problem,
and it may not may not be. Here's the other thing.
There are solutions to problems that what do you want
to say? People don't think there are solutions to maybe anyway,
(05:51):
So we're out spreading some Christmas cheer, visiting on Christmas Day,
you know, on Christmas Day in the morning, three ships
came sailing in and we went after church, were going around,
you know, distributing some Christmas cheer, and in the course
of it just just no, it was it was one
(06:16):
of those where, you know, here's an interesting thing. There
are sort of the older folks that I've known for
thirty forty years here right, and when it was more rural,
more I mean, like, I don't know exactly how to
(06:37):
describe it, but the fact of the matter is that
there are some people when you stop by, they it's
not an imposition.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It's not like they were doing something.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Else, or at least they don't give you the.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Impression that we were doing anything else.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And it's like, come on in and have us see
we get the fatal fresh baked bread is my own
test right there, say that's three times past. We get
the fresh big bread over there, and you know, I
have a coup whatever, can I get you a couple
of glass you know that kind of thing? And you
wind up spending you know, you're there for like an hour.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
But there are folks like that, right there are other
people just as friendly, just as nice. But but you're
there to drop something off. You know, they merry Christmas,
drop off the basket here and get the hell out
and exactly like that. But it's a very different, very
(07:39):
different vibe.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I don't know if you've ever spoken with a farmer, you.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Know, or somebody, I don't know what you want to say.
It's a but it's a people used to visit, is
my and they're not offended when you stop. They kind
of welcome you, and it's pretty and you haven't such
a good time, right. I can't say I'm I can't.
(08:04):
I mean, I just love visiting those folks because it's like, yeah,
you know, you're welcome as long as you want to stay.
And then you know and it's time to go that
that's okay too. And in the meantime you're gonna have
a good time anyway. My point is I'm off doing
the my Christmas visiting and observing this societal shift, if
(08:24):
you will, because there used to be a lot more
folks who are like that, you know what I mean,
people who grew up. And maybe maybe it's a rural thing, right,
Maybe it's a pre telephone thing. Maybe it's before everybody
gets scheduled out so much, but it's it's so nice
at the at the holiday season, you know. And these
(08:46):
are not unbusy people. These are people very busy doing
a lot of things, helping out a church, you know,
helping the neighbors.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
All the rest of it. But it is kind of different.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And le to something that I don't have any time
to talk about now, but I will talk about the
next singment. So my point is, if you're worried that
you're loved one has Alzheimer's, right, you can't cure that
with hearing aids. But maybe it ain't Alzheimer's, and maybe
it can be with hearing aids. Maybe they just can't hear.
They're too embarrassed to say so. And here's here's the
(09:21):
other thing. Here's the other thing with older folks is
they have a very hard time getting spending that much money.
And sometimes it's hundreds and sometimes it's thousands. But but
a lot of older folks have a hard time. You know,
you're gott to consider that possibility, that hard time spending
that much money on themselves for the hearing aids. But
(09:42):
they don't have to mention that, and they're really just fine.
It's just that they can't here. So consider that. And
the other thing is you go visit me on Christmas.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
People come to visit you.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
You know, there's different ways that I there's different ways
that people do that their own talent, I suppose, but
you know, it's just a we're just one of those
one of those things you know where you're stop them
by and it's like, you know, you get in, they
pull you into the and now you're like I said,
you're that sort of thing instead of just you know,
(10:19):
the other thing where hey, you know you're not buying
it's very pleasant and sealing it, which is which they're
both Okay, I mean I'm not, but it is a
it is sort of a shick that you you know,
you can see happening. You've been listening to the David
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family personal.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven twenty four, twenty four.
This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. And I knew we were back.
I'm just adjusting something here, so anyway, long, I know that. Anyway,
long story short, Welcome back to the David Carrier Show.
I'm still David Carrier, your Family's personal attorney. Now here
(11:12):
is my Oh give us a call sixty one six
seven seven four twenty four twenty four. Six one six
seven seven four twenty four to twenty four will get
your question, comment or concern on the air. Now here's
the thing about Christmas visiting. So I'm off visiting and
that's all it was. I mean, just dropping some stuff off.
And so very good friend of mine, other people that
(11:38):
I've known, they start telling me about folks with like
neighbors with dementia, and it's like and one person gets
lost and the other one's in the hospital and this
that and the other thing. And I'm like, guys, it's
not like you don't know what I do all day? Okay,
(12:00):
you know, we're friends. I mean, we talk about this stuff.
We have talked about this stuff. And the the concern,
the concern that I have is that, you know, yeah,
here we are, you know, here we are friends and
everything else. And as we're just to chatting about this
(12:24):
that and the other thing, you know, it comes up
that neighbors or relatives or somebody needs to you know,
and some people are in hospital and whatnot, and it
just gets me to thinking, well, how many people are there?
I mean, these guys know what I do all day.
(12:46):
I mean sometimes even listen to the show hooray okay,
and yet friends, neighbors, family members right are not getting
the care that they need. You know, things aren't being
taken care of and should be. And I wonder how
many people listen to this thing, listen to the show.
(13:08):
And I have listened to the show, and it's like, yeah, yeah,
maybe tomorrow or next week or next year or or
whenever to to start you know, taking care of stuff.
I mean, it's really it's really troubling because you know,
and I hate to be you know, I don't want
(13:29):
to be Debbie Downer or gloomy gus or what have you.
But but the reality is, I mean, every once in
a while, you know, we have people who get found,
clients who get found, you know, having passed or whatever,
and not in the nicest circumstances. Or you hear about stories.
(13:52):
You know, people come in after something has happened, you know, uh,
and and car accident and just all kinds of stuff.
And I guess, if we're going to make a if
we're going to make a new Year's resolution of some sort,
you know, of some sort, that it might not be.
(14:12):
It might not be a bad idea, might be not
be a bad idea to come to. Don't even come
to a workshop. You've got somebody who's who's got some
dementia or you're very concerned, you are concerned about their behavior.
And it isn't the hearing aids. You know, it's not
like they don't understand what's going on. But at midnight
they go out driving around, you know, and they get
(14:34):
found here and there, and it's happened before. Okay, well
you think it's going to get better. It's not going
to get better. The only thing that's going to happen
is when they go out on one of their late
night rambles they're going to hit somebody or drive into
a tree or something. I mean, this stuff happens, and
(14:57):
you know, if you've got a friend or a neighbor
or some and and it's funny because it just kind
of comes up in you know, just kind of comes
up in conversation. It's like jeepers, you know, you know
there's you could call, you know, and and the good
news is, I mean, there are a few situations there
where well, you know, I expect as we move ahead,
(15:20):
you know that things will get get taken care of,
But there's an awful lot of folks out there helping
other people, right, and and there are solutions. I mean,
guess this is the point, right, whether it's in your
own family and you you know, this is the Christmas
where you're this is the New Year's, this is the
(15:41):
holiday season when you're finally decided we got to make
a move, Make the move, make the move. You know.
One of the things that we did, one of the
things that we've added is a so like if you
come to a workshop, just saying if you come to
a workshop, then after the after the workshop, and we'll
(16:04):
do this anyway if you call in, we interview you.
You know, you make a phone call, We make you
make an appointment for a phone call, and there's no charge,
and we ask twenty questions. Twenty questions, and at the
end of the twenty questions, what you get is a
report on the risk that you face your family faces. Okay,
(16:29):
also a way to talk about this with your kids,
you know. And it's personal to you. It's personal to
the things that you told us about. And then finally
it's a checklate take it to other lawyers. You know
what I mean. We do things. I said this a
million times. I'll say it again.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
The way we're doing the things, the way that I
believe is the correct way to do the whole estate
planning thing is very different. Non customary. I mean, I
love that, you know, I'm accused of be a non customary.
It's like, when have I ever been customary? But anyway,
the point is that there's a way to do this
(17:09):
that is much better, in my opinion, than the customary way.
In fact, the customary way to me is an abomination.
It's like it's like you're wasting so you have one opportunity.
It seems like to me to get this right, and
we don't get it right, and in my opinion, I
got to keep saying that otherwise I'm terrible in my opinion. Right,
(17:32):
there are ways to do this stuff that could be
done so much better so that you don't wind up
with the sort of stories that I'm hearing about on
Christmas Day. And I'm thinking, you know, half of me
is thinking, you know, I get it's a neighbor, it's
a friend with whatever. You don't want to impose, you know,
there's the politeness factor. But at the same time, I'm thinking,
you know, I wish I'd heard about this six months,
(17:55):
a year ago. You know, there's things that could be
done to really take care of this situation. So if
you've got a loved one, that's my point kind of
if you've got to love the one and you're wondering cheapers,
you know, is this the year or whatever? Maybe it is,
maybe it isn't. I don't know, but it doesn't hurt
anything to give us a call. We'll run you through
the twenty questions, right, and you get the risk assessment,
(18:17):
you get a way to talk to your kids about it,
and you get a list of things that if you
want to go somewhere else, God bless you. Go ahead.
But it's a checklist of things. Did you think about this?
Did you cover that? Just a four? Our? You know,
knowledge is power, That's all I gotta say. You've been
listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your
(18:38):
family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
David's got the how too you're looking for. Just call
seven seven four twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your Famili's your famili's personal attorney. Even if we haven't
actually worked for you. Yeah, we kind of feel that way.
It's kind of a I don't know, sort of a
nice way to feel anyway. Uh six one six seven
seven four twenty four, twenty four. That's the number to call.
(19:13):
We've got Linda on the line. Hello, Linda, Welcome to
the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Hello. How are you.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Just perking and working and having a ball? You know,
we're in that we're in that funny time right between
Christmas and New Year's not a great time.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yeah, I love that time.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Great, you know, it's just sort of yeah, yeah, I
mean you got all the wrapping is off the floor
except for the ones who were sick and didn't show up,
And now you still have presence under the tree. You
kind of remember what that's about, but now you've got
to figure out how to get him to the kids
in Chicago. Oh my god. But you know, you know,
the tree is still up, and if my wife had
(19:53):
her way, would be up three sixty five. But you know,
and yeah, exactly, exactly right. Well, that's that's the thing
to having a plastic tree. You know, you don't have to.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Take it down before it's a fire hazard.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Oh my god. Yeah, So, Linda, how can I help
this morning? What's up?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Well?
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I am one of five siblings. The names are on
the family's farm, and I've heard you talk about when
you need to get medicaid to go into the nursing home,
which yeah, I don't think that that's going to be
super soon, but it's definitely coming. And I want to
(20:41):
get my name off the farm so that it won't
affect getting medicaid. However, give me anything with these four
people is difficult.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah. So so here's the here's the problem that you've got.
Here's the problem that you have and Now, did mom
and dad die or did they just put you all
on the deed or how did that happen? They put
you all on the deed and they've died.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Well, two sisters were put on the deed after my
mother died. Well that's okay, Well my dad was still alive.
He put the other well, actually the god they put
the other tree on. So they're telling me that I've
only got one sixth of his one third of the farm.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
That's probably right. That's how screwed up this stuff gets.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah, and that means it's totally worthless financially. Number one,
I was not a planner. One of those people had
ended up. I'm on Social Security and a teeny tiny
bust retirement and I have nothing. So with that farm?
Is that going to be a hindrance to getting unmedicaid?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, do you have any idea what the farm is worth?
You know what, what would.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
It sell for one hundred acres? I think it would
go for three or four hundred thousand?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's not okay area, okay? So and what well, I mean,
good luck trying to find anything for five thousand dollars
an acre, right, and that doesn't include burns or anything else.
You're probably looking closer to ten thousand an acre practically anywhere,
you know, within the sound of my voice. So that'd
(22:41):
be that'd be my first.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Pardon me, that's.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Only leaves me with like six acres.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I mean, yeah, when you take a thousand dollars, what right,
I mean, when you divide it all out, and that's
what they now. Is it joint tenants with rights of
survivor do you know is it a last man standing
kind of thing?
Speaker 4 (23:10):
My dad did this without our knowledge. I have no
idea of anything. I've been told that we're on it.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Okay, so let's let's assume. Okay, let's assume because you
were told that you had a fifth of his third
right or a third of his fifth or well, see,
mom and dad had the whole thing, and they put
(23:40):
two kids on it, right, which means that now mom
and dad have a third right.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Actually Mom died, well, Grandma was still alive, and that
is when after she passed away, they added the two girls. Okay,
so it was okay grandma w.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, it was grandma's and then it was mom and dad's.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Nope, my mom was never on the title.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Okay, So then it's one hundred dads, yep, right, and
then dad put your two sisters on.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
No, mom and grandma and Dad put on the two
sisters after my mother died.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Okay, okay, how did dad get on it?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Did grandma put Dad and the two sisters on all
all at once?
Speaker 4 (24:53):
You know, I can't say that for sure. I believe
it was all at once.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Okay, So all right, fair enough. So anyway, let's talk
more generally because we have to take a we'll have
to take a look at the title history just to
see what actually happened. Okay, let's let's think about that.
(25:20):
The problem, here's the problem. The universal problem that you
have with these things is that you own. Whether it's
six acres, I haven't done the math, but you own,
and we depend on what the deeds actually say, okay,
and what the sequence was. But let's assume that you
(25:41):
own out of one hundred acres, you own six percent. Well,
you can't buy land for less than ten thousand dollars
and maybe more. And I don't know where you are exactly,
and if it's way up you know, in the up somewhere,
or might be lost, but you know, yeah, so elegant yeah, yeah,
well that's busy. You know, anybody from Chicago's going to
(26:03):
pay fifteen g's an acre anyway. So let's just say
it's ten thousand an acre. Let's say you have six
thousand dollars six acres. Let's just say the math works
out that way. I'm not so sure, but let's just
say so you got six acres that would be valued
at ten thousand dollars an acre. That is not that
is not impossible, and you know, to figure that one out. Well,
(26:24):
the problem that you're going to have is that there's
no exemption for it. Okay, Medicaid's going to look at
that and think, oh, Linda's got sixty thousand dollars in
the bank. Okay, Linda, come back and see us when
you spent your sixty thousand dollars. And you're like, the
(26:44):
hell are you talking about. I don't have sixty thousand dollars.
I got a fractional interest, you know, once removed, blah
blah blah blah blah in this in this farm, I
don't I can't write a check on that, you know
what the heck? And well I mean, but that's that's
a real problem because it's not it's not meaningful to you,
(27:08):
it's not valuable to you, but they're going to count
it anyway. There's all kinds of people with these fractional
interest in cottages and farms and hunting property and raw
land and this and that because they wanted to keep
it in the family, and the easy way to do
it was the lady bird deed and blah blah. And
it's it's a it's a nightmare because now you own
(27:31):
your own home, Linda.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Or no, I'm renting an apartment that you were I
think about.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Okay, So so even worse right, not only did they
drain your savings, right, but now you've got to now
you've got a judgment against you. Now the judgment the
lean goes on the farm to collect the back, the
back long term care that they're not going to get
blah blah, blah blah. Now there are ways to fix this, okay,
(28:00):
And and which which way to do it is going
to be dependent on the individual situation. But if you
hang on through the through the ads, which we're coming
up on some ads pretty quick here, But hang on
through the ads, and we'll talk about a couple of
the ways that this can be fixed. Uh. But but
(28:20):
just the fundamental point, all right, which and it's it
is absolutely we talk about uh current state of planning
being an abomination, and I blame you know, in my
opinion again, you know what other Uh, I gotta be
(28:41):
careful what I'm supposed to. I don't care anyway what
other lawyers are doing. I think it's just terrible because
I almost guarantee you they went to some lawyer who said,
oh yeah, here, I'll do I'll do the deed for you.
I've heardered there because people used to do this a lot,
and they're still doing it, but now it's with Ladybird
deeds and and it's not any better. But anyway, well
(29:05):
let's not have a battle. That's my point. Okay, So
you've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and we'll figure this out in
the next segment.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Wellcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. We're talking with Linda, and Linda
has a situation which is not not at all unusual
given the current state of a state planning, current state
of estate planning. Yeah, there you go. Anyway, So here's
(29:44):
the deal. Grandma has a farm. Grandma has a farm.
Then her daughter or daughter in law dies, and she says, oh,
I better put sonny boy on the deed. And then
she puts sonny boy on the deed, and then and
(30:06):
two sisters at the same time, Linda, is it is it?
Does Grandma put Dad and the three and the two
sisters all at the same time?
Speaker 4 (30:17):
No, the two sisters are a short time later.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Okay, So then grandma and Dad put two sisters on?
Is that correct? Or did Grandma die and then Dad
put the two sisters on.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Grandma died and then dad Grandma, Grandma and Dad put
the two sisters.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Got it? Got it? Okay? And there was no probate
that anybody remembers. So it was See. Now we now
we get into speculation about about was it was it
a rights of survivorship, was it joint tenants with rights
of survivorship or just joined tenants, or was it tenants
(30:57):
in common? And that's why you have to see the
actual documents in these things. So let's assume. Let's you know,
of course, make an ass out of you and me
when we assume, but let's do that for purpose of
the conversation. Right, that somehow or other, Grandma got off
the deed and it was just Dad and his and
(31:20):
two of the sisters, and then Dad put you and
the other sisters on board. Three more sisters, two more sisters.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Three more sisters or no, two more sisters and a brother.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So there's five two more sisters and a got it,
so there's one. And this happened after Grandma died, Is
that right?
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Okay? So Dad owns a third and then he gives
he splits his third in thirds. So you've got sister
number one who's got a third, Sister number two who's
got a third, Dad who has a third, who gave
it to three more siblings. So you have a third
of a third, right, So one third would.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Be thirty three.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
The sister whose name is on the farm went to
a lawyer because they want the whole farm, and she
informed us that all five of their names were on
his one third and that I would only get one ship.
It would be nothing but a monster fight lawyers. It
(32:32):
would be such a nightmare to try to get that
six acres it is, okay, but.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
That's probably not. But that's kind of irrelevant, okay. And
the reason it's irrelevant is when you apply for the
long term care right, if you decide to do that
at some point, then you've got to disclose all your assets.
This is an ass and then a case worker is
(33:02):
going to go through and figure out what your fractional
interest is, multiply that times the state equalized value times
too right at least, and they're going to say, you've
got that much money in the bank, and so you're
going to be even at very low valuations. And this
is this happens all the time. This is not unusual, okay,
(33:26):
and nobody talks about it, and nobody brags about, Oh
I did ladybirddeed and it screwed up everything. Nobody brags
about that it happens, but nobody you know, oh we
did ladybird deed. It worked out perfectly. Everybody says that, right,
because if it does work out, if you got away
with it, if you got away with it, then people
(33:48):
brag about it. And it's a it's the greatest things
in slice spread. But you don't hear about situations like yours,
which are really many, many of them. Okay, you only
hear the one side, all right. Anyway, here's how you
fix it. Number one, You figure out exactly what is
(34:08):
going on, all right. The problem is that they presume
that the fractional interests work, and the fractional interest don't
work because you can't market You can't sell a fractional interest.
No one will buy it. I've tried repeatedly and you can't.
(34:31):
There is no market for you can't get it listed,
you can't get it sold. No one wants to buy
a lawsuit. That's what I've been you know, that's what
the comeback was. You know, we had we had a
cottage on Lake Michigan. We had fifty percent interest. Nobody
interested in it at any price because it was like, look,
it's just a lawsuit. You're just asking me to pay
(34:53):
money so that I can sue somebody or get involved
in I'm not doing it. Nobody would do it. So
the value even cottage on Lake Michigan fifty percent, you've
got six percent or whatever of one hundred acre farm
in Allegant. Yeah, no one's going to fight for it.
So so what do we do about that. You can't
(35:14):
just dad it back if you just because people used
to do this, I mean they used to, you know,
because it would be mom and the kids is joint tenants,
or Dad and the kids is joint tenants. Right, And
then when Dad needed long term care, Dad would just
dad out his interest right or life estate or something
like that, and completely bolloxed everything up for the medicaid. Okay,
(35:38):
because that was a divestment. You didn't have your five years.
You weren't even thinking about it, but they were thinking
about it. And now you get penalized. Now, your situations
are different than most of the folks are awful lot
of folks that we deal with because in some sense,
you know, you don't have a house to lose, but
(35:58):
people lose houses over this all the time, you know,
because now you've got to sell the house. Well, why'd
I got to sell the house because you didn't qualify
for the medicaid? Why didn't I qualify for the medicaid
because you got a fractional interest in the family cottage,
which counts like cash, so you don't qualify. Oh and
by the way, we didn't know about that until asset
detection discovered it, and now it bolloses everything up. And
(36:22):
now we sold the house and so we haven't protected
the house with this Lady bird deed. Instead we got
to sell the house to pay the back long term care.
And now I don't have a house anymore. Now I
have a pile of money and they want all the money.
I mean, that's how these things work. So the best
bet okay, And there are ways to fix this. You know,
(36:44):
we get actual appraisal of the thing. We fought those
through appeals and stuff, and one on them because the
rule that I described is the rule two times the
sev times of fractional interest. That's how much money you
got in the bank. But you can produce better evidence, right,
and you go for it. Then you can actually get
(37:05):
the thing, you know, get this inco eight interest, get
it back for a negotiated amount, get the roadby court
to approve it. And now, yeah, is it a hassle, Yes,
it's a hassle, but it's better. It's better than being
rejected because you don't qualify for the medicaid. It's better
than it's better than having a big debt that you
(37:26):
can't get out of. See because there's no way out
of this, and then they sue the family, and now
you're popular, right because no, no, no, there's homes suing
the family over your fractional interest. This is a good
example of what I was talking about. There are ways
to fix this, but it's got to be fixed, you
(37:49):
know what I'm saying, It's got to be fixed.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
I have absolutely no money to pay a lawyer, and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, that's fine. Look look, look, look, look, don't look.
Just call the office on Monday, right, call the office
on Monday, bring your deeds in or just tell us
where the land is. We'll take a look at it.
Right and at the very least, Look, it doesn't cost
anything to talk, all right. It's always a free phone call,
it's always a free visit. We'll talk to you, we'll
(38:17):
try to figure it out, right, and then if we
come up with a solution, we'll say, look, here's what
we came up with, right, And if you don't have
any money to pay, that's all right. We'll get it
out of them, or we won't get paid, but you
won't wind up destitute. And that's what's going to happen.
You know, you've got everything balanced out right now. And
(38:38):
this is, this is we'll upset the apple cart. So
give us a shout on Monday or another attorney of
your choice.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
All right, No, I really think you guys, I will.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Okay, Well, this can be fixed. It can be fixed,
but not by delay. Delay will not fix this.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Okay, all right, I don't have a lot of time
to delay. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
All right, so ill reading down the chimney tonight. There
you go. All right, thank you, Linda, thanks for calling.
I've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
family's personal attorney. Now is the time Give us a
call six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
At six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four,
give us a call. We'll get your question, comment or
concern on the air. Very easy to do. That's because
(00:46):
we like things that are easy to do, don't we. Well,
if we can make them, we can't make him easy.
We always remember what Einstein said. Do you remember Einstein.
He was a guy with the funny hair, you know,
kind of a smart guy, you might say, And his
advice was things should be as simple as possible, but
not more simple. And what he meant by that was
(01:08):
do what you gotta do, but don't make things complex
for no good reason. That kind of makes sense, doesn't
it anyway, Whether it's a state planning, elder law, real
estate or business law. Now's the time. Give us a
call six one six seven seven four twenty four, twenty four.
We'll get your question, comment or concern on the area.
(01:30):
It is just that easy, that easy, I don't know,
because we like you or something maybe, And of course.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
The state planning is those approbate.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
We also do elder law. Elder law is that part
where I don't know if anyone even noticed this. I
certainly have not. But as people get older, you know,
their ability to do things changes. You may have noticed this,
not in yourself, of course, but I'm talking about somebody else,
(02:03):
maybe a friend, a neighbor, or your spouse. Things do change,
and at some point many of us do need more
care than otherwise. I was just listening to a to
a to a ad about needing hearing aids in dementia.
Oh my goodness. You really think hearing aids put off dementia?
(02:24):
Do you believe that? Is that possible? You know, if
you have a hearing aid you're not going to get dementia.
Let me tell you it doesn't work like that. But
that's not to say anything against hearing aids, because here's
the deal. It's why you should always get hearing aids
whenever you you know, if you have any issue at
all with your with your with your hearing or whatever,
(02:47):
the reason you should run to get hearing aids. And
our advertisers, of course I have the very finest, but
the reason you should run to get hearing aids is
not because they cause dementia or anything else. But if
you're always missing the point, okay, because you can't hear
what the point is, or if you're always asking people
(03:10):
to repeat, or if you're too proud to say that
you didn't hear and you respond, you know, hey, dad,
would you move the television and you say turkey, we
had that for Thanksgiving or whatever, then they're going to
think you're demented even if you're you see, and it
(03:32):
wasn't really an issue with age if you look into that.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
There have been studies, but.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Eventually, if you look into that, it's not a matter
of oh, no, you know, the hearing aids cured the dementia.
You know, oh, Alzheimer's.
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Fault for you know, improved oral whatever a you are
a companience, that's not the deal.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
What's going on is that people just think you're demented,
you know, because you respond inappropriately or not at all
or like that. Plus, if you can't hear very well,
you don't socialize very much. Are you with me on this?
You tend to withdraw and that's not good for anybody.
(04:19):
So it's not like it's not like hearing age cure
dementia or anything like that. What's going on is the
perception of dementia. And if you want to hang out
with your grandkids, is the first thing to go, all right,
is not your knees. The first thing to go is
your grand because they won't trust you with the grandkids anymore. Well,
(04:44):
you know, Dad was talking about we were talking about whatever,
and he thought we were talking about something completely different.
Goo goo goo goo. Right time for time for him,
you know, time to Oh you really got to put
him away anyway. So that's one thing that a's news
(05:05):
you can use, okay. If and also if you think
your parents are losing it, maybe they are. It does happen,
but maybe they just can't hear you, okay, So you know,
consider that consider that possibility. There you go, see, And
that's one of those things. Things should be as complex
(05:27):
as possible, but not more complex maybe the problem is
they just can't hear you. You say, that's a simple
solution to what you thought was a terrorific, terrific problem,
and it may not may not be. Here's the other thing.
There are solutions to problems that what do you want
to say? People don't think there are solutions to maybe anyway,
(05:51):
So we're out spreading some Christmas cheer, visiting on Christmas Day,
you know, on Christmas Day in the morning, three ships
came sailing in and we went after church, were going around,
you know, distributing some Christmas cheer, and in the course
of it just just no, it was it was one
(06:16):
of those where, you know, here's an interesting thing. There
are sort of the older folks that I've known for
thirty forty years here right, and when it was more rural,
more I mean, like, I don't know exactly how to
(06:37):
describe it, but the fact of the matter is that
there are some people when you stop by, they it's
not an imposition.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
It's not like they were doing something.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Else, or at least they don't give you the.
Speaker 3 (06:53):
Impression that we were doing anything else.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
And it's like, come on in and have us see
we get the fatal fresh baked bread is my own
test right there, say that's three times past. We get
the fresh big bread over there, and you know, I
have a coup whatever, can I get you a couple
of glass you know that kind of thing? And you
wind up spending you know, you're there for like an hour.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
But there are folks like that, right there are other
people just as friendly, just as nice. But but you're
there to drop something off. You know, they merry Christmas,
drop off the basket here and get the hell out
and exactly like that. But it's a very different, very
(07:39):
different vibe.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I don't know if you've ever spoken with a farmer, you.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
Know, or somebody, I don't know what you want to say.
It's a but it's a people used to visit, is
my and they're not offended when you stop. They kind
of welcome you, and it's pretty and you haven't such
a good time, right. I can't say I'm I can't.
(08:04):
I mean, I just love visiting those folks because it's like, yeah,
you know, you're welcome as long as you want to stay.
And then you know and it's time to go that
that's okay too. And in the meantime you're gonna have
a good time anyway. My point is I'm off doing
the my Christmas visiting and observing this societal shift, if
(08:24):
you will, because there used to be a lot more
folks who are like that, you know what I mean,
people who grew up. And maybe maybe it's a rural thing, right,
Maybe it's a pre telephone thing. Maybe it's before everybody
gets scheduled out so much, but it's it's so nice
at the at the holiday season, you know. And these
(08:46):
are not unbusy people. These are people very busy doing
a lot of things, helping out a church, you know,
helping the neighbors.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
All the rest of it. But it is kind of different.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
And le to something that I don't have any time
to talk about now, but I will talk about the
next singment. So my point is, if you're worried that
you're loved one has Alzheimer's, right, you can't cure that
with hearing aids. But maybe it ain't Alzheimer's, and maybe
it can be with hearing aids. Maybe they just can't hear.
They're too embarrassed to say so. And here's here's the
(09:21):
other thing. Here's the other thing with older folks is
they have a very hard time getting spending that much money.
And sometimes it's hundreds and sometimes it's thousands. But but
a lot of older folks have a hard time. You know,
you're gott to consider that possibility, that hard time spending
that much money on themselves for the hearing aids. But
(09:42):
they don't have to mention that, and they're really just fine.
It's just that they can't here. So consider that. And
the other thing is you go visit me on Christmas.
Speaker 3 (09:50):
People come to visit you.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
You know, there's different ways that I there's different ways
that people do that their own talent, I suppose, but
you know, it's just a we're just one of those
one of those things you know where you're stop them
by and it's like, you know, you get in, they
pull you into the and now you're like I said,
you're that sort of thing instead of just you know,
(10:19):
the other thing where hey, you know you're not buying
it's very pleasant and sealing it, which is which they're
both Okay, I mean I'm not, but it is a
it is sort of a shick that you you know,
you can see happening. You've been listening to the David
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family personal.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven twenty four, twenty four.
This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. And I knew we were back.
I'm just adjusting something here, so anyway, long, I know that. Anyway,
long story short, Welcome back to the David Carrier Show.
I'm still David Carrier, your Family's personal attorney. Now here
(11:12):
is my Oh give us a call sixty one six
seven seven four twenty four twenty four. Six one six
seven seven four twenty four to twenty four will get
your question, comment or concern on the air. Now here's
the thing about Christmas visiting. So I'm off visiting and
that's all it was. I mean, just dropping some stuff off.
And so very good friend of mine, other people that
(11:38):
I've known, they start telling me about folks with like
neighbors with dementia, and it's like and one person gets
lost and the other one's in the hospital and this
that and the other thing. And I'm like, guys, it's
not like you don't know what I do all day? Okay,
(12:00):
you know, we're friends. I mean, we talk about this stuff.
We have talked about this stuff. And the the concern,
the concern that I have is that, you know, yeah,
here we are, you know, here we are friends and
everything else. And as we're just to chatting about this
(12:24):
that and the other thing, you know, it comes up
that neighbors or relatives or somebody needs to you know,
and some people are in hospital and whatnot, and it
just gets me to thinking, well, how many people are there?
I mean, these guys know what I do all day.
(12:46):
I mean sometimes even listen to the show hooray okay,
and yet friends, neighbors, family members right are not getting
the care that they need. You know, things aren't being
taken care of and should be. And I wonder how
many people listen to this thing, listen to the show.
(13:08):
And I have listened to the show, and it's like, yeah, yeah,
maybe tomorrow or next week or next year or or
whenever to to start you know, taking care of stuff.
I mean, it's really it's really troubling because you know,
and I hate to be you know, I don't want
(13:29):
to be Debbie Downer or gloomy gus or what have you.
But but the reality is, I mean, every once in
a while, you know, we have people who get found,
clients who get found, you know, having passed or whatever,
and not in the nicest circumstances. Or you hear about stories.
(13:52):
You know, people come in after something has happened, you know, uh,
and and car accident and just all kinds of stuff.
And I guess, if we're going to make a if
we're going to make a new Year's resolution of some sort,
you know, of some sort, that it might not be.
(14:12):
It might not be a bad idea, might be not
be a bad idea to come to. Don't even come
to a workshop. You've got somebody who's who's got some
dementia or you're very concerned, you are concerned about their behavior.
And it isn't the hearing aids. You know, it's not
like they don't understand what's going on. But at midnight
they go out driving around, you know, and they get
(14:34):
found here and there, and it's happened before. Okay, well
you think it's going to get better. It's not going
to get better. The only thing that's going to happen
is when they go out on one of their late
night rambles they're going to hit somebody or drive into
a tree or something. I mean, this stuff happens, and
(14:57):
you know, if you've got a friend or a neighbor
or some and and it's funny because it just kind
of comes up in you know, just kind of comes
up in conversation. It's like jeepers, you know, you know
there's you could call, you know, and and the good
news is, I mean, there are a few situations there
where well, you know, I expect as we move ahead,
(15:20):
you know that things will get get taken care of,
But there's an awful lot of folks out there helping
other people, right, and and there are solutions. I mean,
guess this is the point, right, whether it's in your
own family and you you know, this is the Christmas
where you're this is the New Year's, this is the
(15:41):
holiday season when you're finally decided we got to make
a move, Make the move, make the move. You know.
One of the things that we did, one of the
things that we've added is a so like if you
come to a workshop, just saying if you come to
a workshop, then after the after the workshop, and we'll
(16:04):
do this anyway if you call in, we interview you.
You know, you make a phone call, We make you
make an appointment for a phone call, and there's no charge,
and we ask twenty questions. Twenty questions, and at the
end of the twenty questions, what you get is a
report on the risk that you face your family faces. Okay,
(16:29):
also a way to talk about this with your kids,
you know. And it's personal to you. It's personal to
the things that you told us about. And then finally
it's a checklate take it to other lawyers. You know
what I mean. We do things. I said this a
million times. I'll say it again.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
The way we're doing the things, the way that I
believe is the correct way to do the whole estate
planning thing is very different. Non customary. I mean, I
love that, you know, I'm accused of be a non customary.
It's like, when have I ever been customary? But anyway,
the point is that there's a way to do this
(17:09):
that is much better, in my opinion, than the customary way.
In fact, the customary way to me is an abomination.
It's like it's like you're wasting so you have one opportunity.
It seems like to me to get this right, and
we don't get it right, and in my opinion, I
got to keep saying that otherwise I'm terrible in my opinion. Right,
(17:32):
there are ways to do this stuff that could be
done so much better so that you don't wind up
with the sort of stories that I'm hearing about on
Christmas Day. And I'm thinking, you know, half of me
is thinking, you know, I get it's a neighbor, it's
a friend with whatever. You don't want to impose, you know,
there's the politeness factor. But at the same time, I'm thinking,
you know, I wish I'd heard about this six months,
(17:55):
a year ago. You know, there's things that could be
done to really take care of this situation. So if
you've got a loved one, that's my point kind of
if you've got to love the one and you're wondering cheapers,
you know, is this the year or whatever? Maybe it is,
maybe it isn't. I don't know, but it doesn't hurt
anything to give us a call. We'll run you through
the twenty questions, right, and you get the risk assessment,
(18:17):
you get a way to talk to your kids about it,
and you get a list of things that if you
want to go somewhere else, God bless you. Go ahead.
But it's a checklist of things. Did you think about this?
Did you cover that? Just a four? Our? You know,
knowledge is power, That's all I gotta say. You've been
listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your
(18:38):
family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
David's got the how too you're looking for. Just call
seven seven four twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your Famili's your famili's personal attorney. Even if we haven't
actually worked for you. Yeah, we kind of feel that way.
It's kind of a I don't know, sort of a
nice way to feel anyway. Uh six one six seven
seven four twenty four, twenty four. That's the number to call.
(19:13):
We've got Linda on the line. Hello, Linda, Welcome to
the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 4 (19:19):
Hello. How are you.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Just perking and working and having a ball? You know,
we're in that we're in that funny time right between
Christmas and New Year's not a great time.
Speaker 4 (19:30):
Yeah, I love that time.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Great, you know, it's just sort of yeah, yeah, I
mean you got all the wrapping is off the floor
except for the ones who were sick and didn't show up,
And now you still have presence under the tree. You
kind of remember what that's about, but now you've got
to figure out how to get him to the kids
in Chicago. Oh my god. But you know, you know,
the tree is still up, and if my wife had
(19:53):
her way, would be up three sixty five. But you know,
and yeah, exactly, exactly right. Well, that's that's the thing
to having a plastic tree. You know, you don't have to.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Take it down before it's a fire hazard.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Oh my god. Yeah, So, Linda, how can I help
this morning? What's up?
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Well?
Speaker 4 (20:15):
I am one of five siblings. The names are on
the family's farm, and I've heard you talk about when
you need to get medicaid to go into the nursing home,
which yeah, I don't think that that's going to be
super soon, but it's definitely coming. And I want to
(20:41):
get my name off the farm so that it won't
affect getting medicaid. However, give me anything with these four
people is difficult.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah. So so here's the here's the problem that you've got.
Here's the problem that you have and Now, did mom
and dad die or did they just put you all
on the deed or how did that happen? They put
you all on the deed and they've died.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Well, two sisters were put on the deed after my
mother died. Well that's okay, Well my dad was still alive.
He put the other well, actually the god they put
the other tree on. So they're telling me that I've
only got one sixth of his one third of the farm.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
That's probably right. That's how screwed up this stuff gets.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Yeah, and that means it's totally worthless financially. Number one,
I was not a planner. One of those people had
ended up. I'm on Social Security and a teeny tiny
bust retirement and I have nothing. So with that farm?
Is that going to be a hindrance to getting unmedicaid?
Speaker 2 (22:03):
Well, do you have any idea what the farm is worth?
You know what, what would.
Speaker 4 (22:09):
It sell for one hundred acres? I think it would
go for three or four hundred thousand?
Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's not okay area, okay? So and what well, I mean,
good luck trying to find anything for five thousand dollars
an acre, right, and that doesn't include burns or anything else.
You're probably looking closer to ten thousand an acre practically anywhere,
you know, within the sound of my voice. So that'd
(22:41):
be that'd be my first.
Speaker 3 (22:46):
Pardon me, that's.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Only leaves me with like six acres.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I mean, yeah, when you take a thousand dollars, what right,
I mean, when you divide it all out, and that's
what they now. Is it joint tenants with rights of
survivor do you know is it a last man standing
kind of thing?
Speaker 4 (23:10):
My dad did this without our knowledge. I have no
idea of anything. I've been told that we're on it.
Speaker 2 (23:20):
Okay, so let's let's assume. Okay, let's assume because you
were told that you had a fifth of his third
right or a third of his fifth or well, see,
mom and dad had the whole thing, and they put
(23:40):
two kids on it, right, which means that now mom
and dad have a third right.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
Actually Mom died, well, Grandma was still alive, and that
is when after she passed away, they added the two girls. Okay,
so it was okay grandma w.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
Yeah, it was grandma's and then it was mom and dad's.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
Nope, my mom was never on the title.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Okay, So then it's one hundred dads, yep, right, and
then dad put your two sisters on.
Speaker 4 (24:28):
No, mom and grandma and Dad put on the two
sisters after my mother died.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
Okay, okay, how did dad get on it?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (24:47):
Did grandma put Dad and the two sisters on all
all at once?
Speaker 4 (24:53):
You know, I can't say that for sure. I believe
it was all at once.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Okay, So all right, fair enough. So anyway, let's talk
more generally because we have to take a we'll have
to take a look at the title history just to
see what actually happened. Okay, let's let's think about that.
(25:20):
The problem, here's the problem. The universal problem that you
have with these things is that you own. Whether it's
six acres, I haven't done the math, but you own,
and we depend on what the deeds actually say, okay,
and what the sequence was. But let's assume that you
(25:41):
own out of one hundred acres, you own six percent. Well,
you can't buy land for less than ten thousand dollars
and maybe more. And I don't know where you are exactly,
and if it's way up you know, in the up somewhere,
or might be lost, but you know, yeah, so elegant yeah, yeah,
well that's busy. You know, anybody from Chicago's going to
(26:03):
pay fifteen g's an acre anyway. So let's just say
it's ten thousand an acre. Let's say you have six
thousand dollars six acres. Let's just say the math works
out that way. I'm not so sure, but let's just
say so you got six acres that would be valued
at ten thousand dollars an acre. That is not that
is not impossible, and you know, to figure that one out. Well,
(26:24):
the problem that you're going to have is that there's
no exemption for it. Okay, Medicaid's going to look at
that and think, oh, Linda's got sixty thousand dollars in
the bank. Okay, Linda, come back and see us when
you spent your sixty thousand dollars. And you're like, the
(26:44):
hell are you talking about. I don't have sixty thousand dollars.
I got a fractional interest, you know, once removed, blah
blah blah blah blah in this in this farm, I
don't I can't write a check on that, you know
what the heck? And well I mean, but that's that's
a real problem because it's not it's not meaningful to you,
(27:08):
it's not valuable to you, but they're going to count
it anyway. There's all kinds of people with these fractional
interest in cottages and farms and hunting property and raw
land and this and that because they wanted to keep
it in the family, and the easy way to do
it was the lady bird deed and blah blah. And
it's it's a it's a nightmare because now you own
(27:31):
your own home, Linda.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Or no, I'm renting an apartment that you were I
think about.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Okay, So so even worse right, not only did they
drain your savings, right, but now you've got to now
you've got a judgment against you. Now the judgment the
lean goes on the farm to collect the back, the
back long term care that they're not going to get
blah blah, blah blah. Now there are ways to fix this, okay,
(28:00):
And and which which way to do it is going
to be dependent on the individual situation. But if you
hang on through the through the ads, which we're coming
up on some ads pretty quick here, But hang on
through the ads, and we'll talk about a couple of
the ways that this can be fixed. Uh. But but
(28:20):
just the fundamental point, all right, which and it's it
is absolutely we talk about uh current state of planning
being an abomination, and I blame you know, in my
opinion again, you know what other Uh, I gotta be
(28:41):
careful what I'm supposed to. I don't care anyway what
other lawyers are doing. I think it's just terrible because
I almost guarantee you they went to some lawyer who said,
oh yeah, here, I'll do I'll do the deed for you.
I've heardered there because people used to do this a lot,
and they're still doing it, but now it's with Ladybird
deeds and and it's not any better. But anyway, well
(29:05):
let's not have a battle. That's my point. Okay, So
you've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and we'll figure this out in
the next segment.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Wellcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. We're talking with Linda, and Linda
has a situation which is not not at all unusual
given the current state of a state planning, current state
of estate planning. Yeah, there you go. Anyway, So here's
(29:44):
the deal. Grandma has a farm. Grandma has a farm.
Then her daughter or daughter in law dies, and she says, oh,
I better put sonny boy on the deed. And then
she puts sonny boy on the deed, and then and
(30:06):
two sisters at the same time, Linda, is it is it?
Does Grandma put Dad and the three and the two
sisters all at the same time?
Speaker 4 (30:17):
No, the two sisters are a short time later.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Okay, So then grandma and Dad put two sisters on?
Is that correct? Or did Grandma die and then Dad
put the two sisters on.
Speaker 4 (30:30):
Grandma died and then dad Grandma, Grandma and Dad put
the two sisters.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Got it? Got it? Okay? And there was no probate
that anybody remembers. So it was See. Now we now
we get into speculation about about was it was it
a rights of survivorship, was it joint tenants with rights
of survivorship or just joined tenants, or was it tenants
(30:57):
in common? And that's why you have to see the
actual documents in these things. So let's assume. Let's you know,
of course, make an ass out of you and me
when we assume, but let's do that for purpose of
the conversation. Right, that somehow or other, Grandma got off
the deed and it was just Dad and his and
(31:20):
two of the sisters, and then Dad put you and
the other sisters on board. Three more sisters, two more sisters.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
Three more sisters or no, two more sisters and a brother.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
So there's five two more sisters and a got it,
so there's one. And this happened after Grandma died, Is
that right?
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Okay? So Dad owns a third and then he gives
he splits his third in thirds. So you've got sister
number one who's got a third, Sister number two who's
got a third, Dad who has a third, who gave
it to three more siblings. So you have a third
of a third, right, So one third would.
Speaker 3 (32:09):
Be thirty three.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
The sister whose name is on the farm went to
a lawyer because they want the whole farm, and she
informed us that all five of their names were on
his one third and that I would only get one ship.
It would be nothing but a monster fight lawyers. It
(32:32):
would be such a nightmare to try to get that
six acres it is, okay, but.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
That's probably not. But that's kind of irrelevant, okay. And
the reason it's irrelevant is when you apply for the
long term care right, if you decide to do that
at some point, then you've got to disclose all your assets.
This is an ass and then a case worker is
(33:02):
going to go through and figure out what your fractional
interest is, multiply that times the state equalized value times
too right at least, and they're going to say, you've
got that much money in the bank, and so you're
going to be even at very low valuations. And this
is this happens all the time. This is not unusual, okay,
(33:26):
and nobody talks about it, and nobody brags about, Oh
I did ladybirddeed and it screwed up everything. Nobody brags
about that it happens, but nobody you know, oh we
did ladybird deed. It worked out perfectly. Everybody says that, right,
because if it does work out, if you got away
with it, if you got away with it, then people
(33:48):
brag about it. And it's a it's the greatest things
in slice spread. But you don't hear about situations like yours,
which are really many, many of them. Okay, you only
hear the one side, all right. Anyway, here's how you
fix it. Number one, You figure out exactly what is
(34:08):
going on, all right. The problem is that they presume
that the fractional interests work, and the fractional interest don't
work because you can't market You can't sell a fractional interest.
No one will buy it. I've tried repeatedly and you can't.
(34:31):
There is no market for you can't get it listed,
you can't get it sold. No one wants to buy
a lawsuit. That's what I've been you know, that's what
the comeback was. You know, we had we had a
cottage on Lake Michigan. We had fifty percent interest. Nobody
interested in it at any price because it was like, look,
it's just a lawsuit. You're just asking me to pay
(34:53):
money so that I can sue somebody or get involved
in I'm not doing it. Nobody would do it. So
the value even cottage on Lake Michigan fifty percent, you've
got six percent or whatever of one hundred acre farm
in Allegant. Yeah, no one's going to fight for it.
So so what do we do about that. You can't
(35:14):
just dad it back if you just because people used
to do this, I mean they used to, you know,
because it would be mom and the kids is joint tenants,
or Dad and the kids is joint tenants. Right, And
then when Dad needed long term care, Dad would just
dad out his interest right or life estate or something
like that, and completely bolloxed everything up for the medicaid. Okay,
(35:38):
because that was a divestment. You didn't have your five years.
You weren't even thinking about it, but they were thinking
about it. And now you get penalized. Now, your situations
are different than most of the folks are awful lot
of folks that we deal with because in some sense,
you know, you don't have a house to lose, but
(35:58):
people lose houses over this all the time, you know,
because now you've got to sell the house. Well, why'd
I got to sell the house because you didn't qualify
for the medicaid? Why didn't I qualify for the medicaid
because you got a fractional interest in the family cottage,
which counts like cash, so you don't qualify. Oh and
by the way, we didn't know about that until asset
detection discovered it, and now it bolloses everything up. And
(36:22):
now we sold the house and so we haven't protected
the house with this Lady bird deed. Instead we got
to sell the house to pay the back long term care.
And now I don't have a house anymore. Now I
have a pile of money and they want all the money.
I mean, that's how these things work. So the best
bet okay, And there are ways to fix this. You know,
(36:44):
we get actual appraisal of the thing. We fought those
through appeals and stuff, and one on them because the
rule that I described is the rule two times the
sev times of fractional interest. That's how much money you
got in the bank. But you can produce better evidence, right,
and you go for it. Then you can actually get
(37:05):
the thing, you know, get this inco eight interest, get
it back for a negotiated amount, get the roadby court
to approve it. And now, yeah, is it a hassle, Yes,
it's a hassle, but it's better. It's better than being
rejected because you don't qualify for the medicaid. It's better
than it's better than having a big debt that you
(37:26):
can't get out of. See because there's no way out
of this, and then they sue the family, and now
you're popular, right because no, no, no, there's homes suing
the family over your fractional interest. This is a good
example of what I was talking about. There are ways
to fix this, but it's got to be fixed, you
(37:49):
know what I'm saying, It's got to be fixed.
Speaker 4 (37:52):
I have absolutely no money to pay a lawyer, and yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (37:56):
Yeah, that's fine. Look look, look, look, look, don't look.
Just call the office on Monday, right, call the office
on Monday, bring your deeds in or just tell us
where the land is. We'll take a look at it.
Right and at the very least, Look, it doesn't cost
anything to talk, all right. It's always a free phone call,
it's always a free visit. We'll talk to you, we'll
(38:17):
try to figure it out, right, and then if we
come up with a solution, we'll say, look, here's what
we came up with, right, And if you don't have
any money to pay, that's all right. We'll get it
out of them, or we won't get paid, but you
won't wind up destitute. And that's what's going to happen.
You know, you've got everything balanced out right now. And
(38:38):
this is, this is we'll upset the apple cart. So
give us a shout on Monday or another attorney of
your choice.
Speaker 4 (38:46):
All right, No, I really think you guys, I will.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Okay, Well, this can be fixed. It can be fixed,
but not by delay. Delay will not fix this.
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Okay, all right, I don't have a lot of time
to delay. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
All right, so ill reading down the chimney tonight. There
you go. All right, thank you, Linda, thanks for calling.
I've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.
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