Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Who and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. And you have found the place
where we talk about retirement law. That's right, what's what
we're going to call it?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Now?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Forget about this estate planning and elder law. It's retirement
lawns for people who have retired, want to retire, wish
they retired, know somebody who retired. Anyway, It's all about
that stuff, all about how we make sure that you
get what you have earned, not so much what you deserve.
It's hard to get what you deserve, you know what
I mean. That's one of those weasel words. It's like,
(01:05):
what have you earned? What did you put in the bank,
what did you what did you do right? What did
you pay off? What did you make happen?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
You know?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
What have you earned? The old you know, I say,
the old fashioned way, right, that's what this is all about.
How do we make sure that you avoid probate, you
save taxes, you don't leave a mess. I mean, one
of the worst things, worst things that I have ever
seen thirty five years of doing this, is when we
get somebody who's got it together, right, somebody who throughout
(01:35):
their lifetime, everybody knew that this couple or the individual
whoever was kind of had it together. They were the
go to person. They were the reliable one. They were
the person who helped out, got it done all the
rest of it. Sometimes in a lead role, sometimes in
a supporting role. You know, they were the one. Maybe
they didn't organize the pancake breakfast right, but they were
(01:57):
there flipping pancakes every month. That kind of person, you
know what I mean, the go to guy, the one
that you could count on as a solid member of
the team if not, you know, the grand pubah sort
of the you know, the people I like the best
are the are the folks who you don't really know
what they do until you kind of you ever done this,
try this next time you're in an organization or or
(02:19):
at church or wherever. Okay, kind of sit back a
little bit right and just look around and see who
it is that if you took them you might say, oh,
they're just a cognitive machine. Okay, you might say that, right,
but you know, people like this might even be you.
I don't know, but if you took them out, the
(02:40):
whole machine would fall apart, right, would would crash. You know,
maybe they could get it back together again somewhat. But
you know, it's those people who you don't really notice
until you try to notice, right, I mean, you make
the effort to see who's actually doing the stuff, and
there are some people who kind of do it, and
(03:01):
some people hang back and you know, and other people
were right right out front. Okay, I'm talking about those guys,
men and women both who who are there cheerful, like
always cheerful, or just helping out, just making it work. Okay.
The worst thing, the worst thing that you see is
(03:21):
when those people go when they die, all right, and
after thirty five years, I've seen quite a bit of
it after they die, when we get called in. They
weren't clients of ours or anything like that, but you
knew who they were, right And it's a mess, right
And instead of getting instead of being remembered as the
person who made it happen, the person who you know,
(03:45):
who had it together, who did the things right, whatever
it was they get remembered. Is this pathetic? Oh such
a mess. It's terrible, you know, it's and it's not
even about the money. Really, it's not even about the
fact that well, you know, they thought they had prepared
(04:06):
the financial advisor said they had enough money. Blah blah blah.
Oh what are the odds? You know, And then you
know there's a whether it's als or Alzheimer's or Louis
body dementia or Parkinson's or one of these things. And yeah,
I know, gloom and doom, but it's reality, okay, just reality.
(04:27):
And then those plans don't quite work right, and they
go from and after they pass or just after they pass, right,
and you know, whatever it was. And then instead of
everything being all lined up, and I hear this all
the time, oh my, you know, Mam and dad they
got everything pulled together, they're all you know, everything's all
set up. And then if you get to see what
(04:48):
mom and dad actually did, right, it's like, oh, that's
a good thing they came in right, because the memory
wouldn't have been of the competence. The memory would not
have been of the confidence that they had in the future,
would not be of the values that they had. It
would be the memory is, oh, this was a mess
(05:11):
and that was a mess. And it turns people from
what they should be, which is, hey, look at how
great you know those guys did. Wow, you know, you
know Tom and Sally they did so great, right to oh,
poor Tom and Sally, or poor Sally now that Tom's gone,
because you know, the dump and it goes like from
(05:34):
admiration to being pathetic. And the worst part about it
is and I'm not you know, I don't I get
the echoes of it right in my position, I don't.
The worst part about it is the echo that you
get from people who had admired folks right and now
(05:56):
they don't have to anymore because they're not around anymore.
And it's almost, you know, it's almost malicious a little bit,
you know what I mean. When you see somebody, when
some you know, someone who's been who's done very well
right and really pulled together and stuff, it's human nature
to be envious. That's a human nature thing. And when
(06:21):
things aren't set up exactly the way they might be
right where they you know what I'm saying, It's like
they want to get a kick in, right, and it's
like it's really not as bad as they're making out right,
and these people really did amazing things. But it's sort
of like when there's a mess because there wasn't that
(06:41):
planning done. There wasn't the foresight to make sure that
everything went smoothly, okay, which is very typical. It's the
way it goes, you know. I always say ninety eight
percent of the time. I don't know if it's ninety eight,
might be ninety nine, might be ninety seven, might be
ninety three percent of the time people are I think
it's ninety eight. Just looking at the thing. People aren't prepared, right,
(07:06):
and so it's like they go from being the one
who's connected right, and everybody kind of acknowledges that to
you're like pathetic, and then the folks who wouldn't say
anything when you were around, now they get their digs in,
you know what I mean. It's awful. You hate it.
(07:28):
I hate it. I hate seeing that because what's left
is your memory is the memory that other people have
of you, Okay, and when you do it correctly, you're
not pathetic, you're not a figure of fun. You're not
a cautionary tale, right which you lived your whole life
(07:48):
not to be. You live your whole life the way
you lived your life, okay, and there's no reasonable excuse
for making you a cautionary tale. But you turn into
one when they aren't put together right. That's all I'm saying.
And that's what this retirement law thing is all about.
That's what that's our goal is not only to live
(08:09):
your life the way you want to live your life,
the way you've earned to live your life, okay, but
to make sure that you finish on a strong note
and the good that you've done continues on right. You
don't want to have too much hubris about it, you
know what I mean, or a sinful pride about it.
But the fact of the matter is when you live
(08:31):
a good life, when you do the good things all right,
it doesn't stop with you. This is the other thing
that you see a lot of where the good things
that people did during their lifetime, it's very hopeful things.
It's kind of it's a big part of what keeps
you going right because you can see that when things
are done correctly, what I would call correctly anyway, when
(08:54):
things are done right, okay, it's such a boost to
the next generation. There's there's that continuing effect that people have.
You've heard me talk about this before, you've seen it
your own self. When you do one good thing, good
things follow from it. When you do a bad thing,
(09:15):
bad things follow from it. That's just the way it goes.
And that's the question, right, what are the echoes that
are you're going to leave? What is the what is
the memory that you've created? And it's not always the
one that you've earned, That's what I'm saying. It's not
always the one that you've earned. You know, you live
seventy eighty years, earning the accolades, earning the reverence, the
(09:39):
good memory, and you're gone. But because of the way
in the you know, fumble on the one yard line
right right when you because the end part wasn't done strongly,
all the rest is ignored, and that's all they focus on.
You know how people are? You know how people are.
They don't focus on the positive. They accentuate the negative.
(10:02):
It's an unfortunate thing, but it's also reality. So what
I'm saying is what the whole purpose here is live well,
live the life that you have earned. That's what we
talk about here, That's what all this stuff is really
is really all about. And we're living now in a
era perhaps of accountability, where sloughing things off just ain't
(10:26):
gonna cut it anymore, not that it ever did, and
in our lives. But you know, there's been this sort
of national thing where you can shove it under the
under the carpet. Not anymore. You've been listening to David.
E've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's retirement law specialist rights. I don't want you
(10:52):
to tell me it's time to come on. Okay, what
you say any more? This is my life. Don't go cha.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven four twenty four,
twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
We welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm still
David Carrier. Sorry about that. Your family's personal attorney doing
retirement law, you name it, state planning, elder law, real
estate and business law. So if you have a question, comment,
or concern about Will's trusts or probate. If you wonder
how do I make sure that my retirement is what
(11:44):
I have earned as opposed to when I get stuck
with give us a call sixty one six seven seven
four twenty four twenty four. That's six one six seven
seven four twenty four twenty four. Will get your question,
comment or concern on the air. You know, we're doing
these three secrets workshops.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Wah wah, wah.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
What are the three secrets they're going to prevent you
from enjoying your retirement? What are the three secrets that
will you know, put a hole on the boat and
watch a sink man. We don't like that. Well, if
you're wondering about that, we do the We do these
workshops every week. The Good Lord brings in all four offices,
one of the four offices always in Grand Rapids, of course,
(12:25):
but then also in Muskegan, up in Mskegan, Norton Shores area,
over in Holland and the course down in in Portage.
So go to the website David Carrier Law dot com.
That's Davidcarrier Law dot com. We don't make you wait.
See that's that's important feature. I think you know a
lot of people will oh, you know, the circus is
(12:46):
coming to town. Theory of these events and we don't
do that. It's like, no, it's more like when you
turn on the switch, we're here for you. That's that's
the idea, would you know? And I, like I said,
criticism for oh, you should do quite so many seminars
and blah blah blah, make them more special. And I
think it's pretty special every time. But that was the
(13:08):
commitment we made thirty plus years ago. It's the one
that we've been fulfilling ever since, that we are here.
We are here for you to do what you need
us to do when you need it, not you know,
oh we got to wait a couple of months or
or what have you. That doesn't work that way. Things
have been happening, haven't they. Oh my goodness. When we
(13:29):
talk about the law course and you know, how do
how do we maneuver our way through it? But right
now we've got John from Alligan. Hello, John, Welcome to
the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Good morning, David morning.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
How can I help.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Spent four years finishing my father of the state closing
we had all up twenty twenty three, I finished the
Michigan side of it. He's been two states. Got a
letter from the Michigan Treasury said zero ode on taxes.
He had not paid his taxes before his death for
(14:10):
many years. So did all the rebuilding, did all the
tax filings, filed, and closed the estate in Michigan here
twenty three and yesterday I get three letters from our
Department of Treasury that says he had zero balance due,
(14:30):
but because you hadn't paid him on time, there was
penalties and interest for three of the years. Is there
anything they can do? I've already closed the estate everywhere
else everything's been dispersed, and or do I just call
him and say, you've missed your window?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
How much of you? How much are we talking about?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Probably just short of ten thousand, like three one was
three thousand, two thousand, and another two thousand maybe so
five to ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
So we didn't get tax clearance certificates on them when
when you filed them, I mean afterwards.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I did get some letters from the Treasury that said
that all everything was paid back, you know, and everything
was paid up and full, and I think I have
a certificates from them. But due to this happening, Althrough
covid our lovely Department of Treasury the left and popped
up the right hand.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Right, boy, that's a good you know, I guess, I guess. Well,
here's the here's the bottom line. The the treasury can
go back against you and go against the beneficiaries, you know,
to claw back with the interest and penalties. You know,
(15:55):
they can. That's that's a real possibility. You know, they
reopened the estate. The they're known creditor. We didn't deny them.
In fact, you paid them. We didn't get a we
didn't get a release from them, right, they just said
you don't know any more taxes. But we didn't get
a complete release from the government, and the government ignores
(16:17):
those anyway, especially when it comes to taxes. So then
the question is what can we do to settle the account?
You know, what can you do to sell the thing?
Is there any is there any chance of with the
I understand the money has been dispersed, probably years ago,
(16:38):
but I mean, how any possibility to cling it back?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Well, I mean, yeah, I could probably talk to the
other siblings and everybody chip in, you know, out of
the five of us, you know, a couple of hours
in each and better state or the business or something
that would pay the bills. I haven't talked to the
(17:04):
state yet if these are you know, late bills that
they haven't like I said, they sent me zero bills
all through the year of twenty twenty four. They never
sent me anything previous to that to say that these
were owed. And I'll have to dig further into the treasury.
But you know, it just came up yesterday that I
(17:25):
got these. I'm wondering what my.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
You know, typically you know, but typically with these when
you get a tax bill, it includes the penalties and interest.
I wonder if this isn't one more example of left
hand not knowing what the right is doing. You know,
if they show that there's a zero balance on it,
then that would seem to me to be pretty good
evidence that it's a zero balance on it, you know,
(17:51):
I mean, what else are you supposed to think, right, yeah,
were you were you dealing with anyone in particular, or
was it just yeah, yeah, that said the government gets
what the government wants, you know. I think I think
your idea of approaching them is the is the correct
is the correct approach? You know, the generally speaking, you know,
(18:17):
when we get the letter saying it's no tax due.
We're not thinking, oh, I didn't take care of the
interest in penalties. We always assume that that that that's
the lever letter covers that, you know. I mean, I haven't.
I haven't been through this one yet, right, I mean
usually because usually it's it's a complete it's a complete
(18:37):
release now. And I will tell you just as a
matter of caution, what we will do is hold on
to you know, say ten percent or something like. You know,
we'll hold on to a certain amount until the you know,
for like a year or so, just in case anything
pops out of the woodwork. But it sounds like it
(18:58):
sounds to be distributes into a couple of years ago.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah, first attributions happened the end of twenty four. The
state of Michigan we finalized in or you know, in
twenty three, so it had been a year that we
were still Yeah, so you did it.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Mhm, boy, it makes you wonder about the other state.
Now done that, I think I think the best thing.
Oh well, Gloria HALLI you for that. Oh I see,
I see you're saying that the estate remained open in
the other state. But like Florida or Texas or New
(19:40):
Hampshire or something.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Yeah, we were state hilarious state in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So yeah, mm, well obviously you need to look into this,
all right. I mean we need to go deeper into it.
And I mean, how is it that you didn't get
noticed of the interest in penalties? That just seems I
can't think of a case where we didn't you know
(20:05):
where that wasn't just part of the deal. But it
sounds okay, you stumped a chump, you got me. But
I think I think the thing to do is go
back with go back to the treasury, you know, get
the revenue agent, the person who's who's managing the thing,
you know, who's doing the examining, and go through that process.
(20:26):
And I would just ask for a waiver of it
if you know, if it's if it is legit. Because
you got zero balances and you made you made the
distributions based on that, that seems very reasonable to me.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah. Like I said, I didn't have the call, I
didn't have letters. I call my letters from the That's
all I can do.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, that's all you can do. You're right, well, John,
that music means I got to get out. Thank you
for the call one more example of uh, left hand,
right hand? Sorry about that. You've been listening to the
David Carriers Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Give us something to be believe? Oh the longest time?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Whoa David's got the how too? You're looking for? Just
call seven seven twenty four twenty four. This is the
David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Now's the time give us a call.
Six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
That's six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
You know the problem John had. He closed the estate,
got his bills from the get the letters from the
(21:51):
state of Michigan saying nope, you don't know any more
income texts. You know, this is what I'm talking about
in the first segment where you know, Dad worked his
whole life, cetera, cetera, but then at the end did
not pay his taxes. Right for several years, apparently did
not pay his taxes. And now does Dad get remembered?
How does Dad get remembered as the guy who didn't
(22:14):
pay his taxes? For the last several years, and apparently
he had done well enough that there was that the
penalties on his unpaid taxes amounted to over ten thousand dollars.
You see, So what do you what do you glean
from now? I mean, what's the lesson there? Well, dad,
(22:36):
if the penalties on his taxes were ten thousand, and
let's face it, many many older folks do not owe
income tax. This is why you don't file, okay, because
your income taxes be low the limit. So lots of
older folks, you know, we don't have a tax problem
because the income is so low that they don't owe taxes.
(22:56):
They don't even file them. Lots of times off, a
lot of our our folks will file the taxes only
to get the property tax, the homestead property tax credit
or other tax credits. Okay, in other words, a refund
not of income tax, but a refund of or a
(23:18):
credit against the property tax that they pay on the
home for example. Okay, so you see, you see that happening.
But Dad must have done well enough. Okay, you know,
put the let's think about the things we can't see, Like,
we don't know any of the facts about this other
than Dad owed income tax. Well, that tells you right
(23:40):
there that he did well enough in life, right, so
that his whether it was social Security or pension or
what have you, was taxable. That's more income than the
majority of older folks, retirees. Most older folks right, don't
have to pay income tax, at least not under social
Security or pension. Now, maybe there was Iraser, who knows
(24:04):
why he wasn't paying the taxes, okay, But the point
is that he worked hard enough during his lifetime. Okay,
he was methodical, he was routine. He did what he
needed to do in order to retire with sufficient income
that he owed taxes on it, which in itself is
like I say, it's not common, but it's common, but
(24:25):
it's not everybody he did. Okay. Now, he screwed up
by not paying his income tax. I get it. You know,
he should have filed the returns. But the fact that
he needed to file the returns, okay, the fact that
he needed to indicates that he did pretty well right
during his lifetime. He must have done pretty well, otherwise
it wouldn't even be an issue. Okay. And now then
(24:48):
the stake comes against it and the mess is dumped
on the kids. His dad remembered as the guy who
worked hard. No, he's remembered as the guy who left
the mess. This is exactly what I'm talking talking about.
You don't want to be that guy. And then see,
and then here's the other thing. Who remembers the stuff
(25:09):
about John's dad that got him to that point, right,
Who remembers what he did, the good things that he did.
And now this is just further repercussions coming from the
retirement part of life, the retirement law part of life
not being handled, not being handled correctly, and even the
(25:31):
you know, the inheritance, which five kids and they all
got an inheritance. That's pretty good, pretty good significant, And
that's all, you know what I mean. It's the taint
that you don't you don't get the credit for what
(25:52):
you did because of the way it was finished, which
is terrible. But that's human nature, you know, when we
uh think about it. Anytime you go to oh, I
don't know whether it's in school or whatever, you go
to learn something, the things that you remember, the very
first things that you hear, the very last things. Okay,
(26:14):
what will people remember about you? Well, lots of times
it will be the first thing they ever knew about
you as a parent, they'll remember that, and then they'll
remember how things ended, and they won't focus very much
on the on the in between. That's just that's just
human nature. That's just the way. That's just the way
it goes. So we wish John the best of luck
(26:34):
with that good thing. That it is possible, because lots
of times with the states, right once they're distributed, the
money spent and there's no there's no getting it back.
And then because there is joint and several liability, everybody,
you know, everybody is liable for it, and the state
can be very can be very unforgiving. So let's let's
(26:57):
follow that one. But you know, it also gets you.
I mean, here's the other thing. Why didn't the state
come forward and say, hey, os not only the taxes
but also the interest and penalties. Every notice I've ever
seen from the government includes that stuff. But what we're
finding out now apparently, is that the whole federal government,
(27:20):
the whole tax system, runs on a thing called cobal.
Cobal was the business language. Okay, back in the day,
in the seventies. In high school, I was fortunate to
have a new college grad who knew about the computers, right,
and there were basically, as I recall, there were two
(27:40):
computer languages that you could learn. There was Fortran, which
was an engineering language more or less, and then Cobal,
which was the business language. And supposedly Cobal was easier, right,
But Cobal had been written by Grace Hopper, who was
in a Navy admiral admiral and the United States Navy
(28:02):
who retired. But because the Navy ran on Cobal and
they didn't know how it worked, this is true, they
had to bring her back. They retired her. I got
to I got to meet her when they retired her
a second time. This is when I went over to
the Pentagon and I met her at an event, and
she was she wasn't she was out in the Navy
(28:23):
at that time, because they retired her a second time
after they brought her back to explain Cobal to the
newbiest who didn't understand how it worked, and because she
wrote the damn thing or significant contributor to that. But
she was I just I still remember she was just
you know, five foot two, you know, pulled together, wearing
a blue business suit, not a uniform anymore. But she
(28:45):
had her patent leather navy shoes on. I just I
do remember. I remember that part and I was all,
I was all so excited. Oh, I'm going to be
you know, over at the job, pointed to the Pentagon
to do this computer stuff, et cetera, cetera. And she
shook my hand and told me that I had her.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I said, oh, I'm at the you know, disappointed me
to the Pentagon, and she goes, oh, you have my
deepest sympathy, and I'm like, oh, I thought it was
pretty cool. Later on, you know, in the reality of
working there, she was right. She was right. You know,
you go into that place, see and this is this
is why what's going on currently is so exciting to
(29:27):
me because I went when I went into the Pentagon,
I was full of we're going to get this done.
We're going to do these great things and computerize this
and do this and do that. And you just run
into a it's not a brick wall, you know, a
brick wall, maybe you can batter it down, it's a
it's a jello wall made out of jello. You're not
(29:49):
getting through it. You're not going to get you can't
get over it. You can't dig into it and climb
over it. Right, You can't batter it down. It just
absorbs whatever you have. And so what's going on currently
is actually pretty exciting to me, you know, to watch
people actually start to melt the jell start to get
through the government. And the point of that whole story
(30:11):
was apparently the IRS still runs on Cobol still forty
years later, They're still using a computer language is outdated.
When I was on active duty, and it was the
thing when I was in high school. It was the thing, right,
it was what they had, but they were developing new
stuff that would be a lot better and was now
(30:31):
CE double plus and all the rest of this. But
the fact that the IRS is still running on Cobol
is actually absolutely a head scratcher. Don't get it. Listening
to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's
personal attorneys.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
David's working and working and taking your calls. Now this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, inviting you to a life plan workshop.
The three secrets things that you need to know are
they secret? Wow, We've been doing these workshops for a while.
I guess the word is out, not really secret, but
they might as well be. You're not going to hear
them anywhere else, So give us a call six one
(31:30):
six seven seven four twenty four twenty four six one
six seven seven four two four two four. That's to
ask a question right now. But if you'd like to
learn the three secrets, I want to find out what
your financial advisor, your accountant, your whoever brother you know,
buddy over the backyard fence. Of course, given the weather today,
(31:53):
it's prying that over the backyard fence anyway, that person,
you know. Where you get all your information, good information,
what they're wrong about. Go to the website David Carrier Law,
Squish it all together, Davidcarrier Law dot com. And on
the Davidcarrier Law dot com. We got a new thing.
(32:13):
We've got a new thing. You should try it. It's
a AI thing that will answer your questions. It'll pop up.
You gotta give it like ten seconds or something like that.
I forget how long. But go to the website and
this thing will pop up and you can ask it
free form questions and whatnot and get answers that well
so far they've been pretty good. I like anyway, that's
(32:35):
the website. Find out about the workshops. Love to see
you at the workshops. Now, I'm going to go to
a one of our emails here. And it is a
not uncommon situation. Okay, it happens this way in more
ways than you can think. But anyway, here's the thing.
How can I preserve my full health benefits if I'm
(32:57):
about to receive regular payments from an inheritance trust. My
parent who recently passed let me trust close to a
million bucks and will that regular payments must be made
to me. People do this. It's insane. It's insane, it's wrong,
it's bad. You shouldn't do it. But they do it
all the time because they want to make sure that
the kid gets the money right, but they want to
(33:20):
make sure they don't get it all at once right. Well,
the all at once, of course, is terrible, but this
is just as bad. It's just as bad. The trust
administered by an attorney. Wooh, there's another mistake. Don't have
your attorney be your trustee. You know, attorneys are not
good at being trustee. Attorneys are good at doing attorney stuff.
(33:41):
Get a trust company, a bank, or somebody to be
the trustee. It's a different line of business. Okay, if
your attorneys being the trustee, I think they're skimming. That's
what I think. But oh no, that's horrible to say, ooh,
because attorneys would never do that. Gohad knows. They would
never send you to the person to really do the job.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
No.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Instead, they'll give you investment services, they'll give you trustee services,
they'll do all kinds of other things that they didn't
go to law school for. But I'm the one who's
I'm I'm the one who's out of line, got it anyway.
I'm over sixty five, I receive retirement disability benefits and
have full health and Medicaid coverage. I do not need
(34:23):
this much money and would like to know what can
be done to protect me from losing my benefits. The
answer is nothing. Zero Because here's the problem. If you
create a trust that is fully discretionary, fully discretionary meaning
it's one hundred percent up to the trustee how much
money you get, which could include zero. Okay, a fully
(34:45):
discretionary trust where you cannot compel regular payments or the
income or anything, right, then that trust doesn't count a
third party Mom or Dad, third party some somebody else,
not you, third party discretionary trust. If it's done correctly,
(35:07):
and it's not hard to do it correctly, but if
it's done correctly, then none of the assets in the
trust will count against the beneficiary. But people don't do
it correctly. They do this kind of thing where they say, oh,
you've got to get a certain amount of money. It's
like the worst of all worlds because the trustee now
(35:28):
has to give you X amount of dollars, which almost
guaranteed is going to be treated as income well, which
will knock you off certain benefits. Okay, at home care,
the PACE program we talk about all the time, assisted
living benefits, forget about it. Now you've got too much
income because whatever income it is supposed to be paying
(35:51):
out of this million dollars is now your entitlement, and
if you could take it, then you must take it.
That's how that's how medicaid works. Okay. It's not just
what income you have, not just what assets you actually
have in your name. It also includes whatever assets you
(36:11):
are entitled to. Thirty years ago, when I first started
doing this stuff, there was a big brew haha, about
like injury settlements and stuff. Okay, So the person gets
injured and their recovery is very very little, very little,
and the recovery all the all goes to the family
(36:34):
for loss of consortium, loss of you know, the pleasure
of your company, that kind of thing. Okay. So the
person who is now on medicaid got you know, ten cents.
Everybody else got the big money. Okay. And they went
after that they said, look, if if you had a
right an entitlement to recover in a lawsuit, you have
(36:56):
to exercise that right. You can't waive it in favor
of family members lost a consortium. So there there's been
a fight about this. Okay, this is a This is
not a new issue. If you're entitled to something, you
have to take it. So in this case, the letter
writer says, well, I'm getting I don't know who knows
(37:16):
what it is, say a couple thousand dollars a month, right,
which would be low because it's a million dollars. A
couple thousand a month is twenty five thousand dollars a year.
It's not that much money, okay, but it's enough to
screw up your medicaid and you're not going to get
any benefit from it, even if you do qualify, because
they're going to take it, they're going to offset. So yeah,
(37:39):
so this is terrible. The way this is done is terrible. Naturally,
we don't do it this way. What we do when
you're leaving anything, and it's not just to somebody, it's
not just to someone who you think is disabled or
who has actually disabled. How do you know who's going
(37:59):
to be disabled next week, next month, next year? How
do you know? How do you know who's going to
go bankrupt? How do you know when you know a
powerful virus of unknown origin shows up again, right and
shuts everything down, and sixty percent of small businesses go bankrupt,
including your kids? Like, how do you know when that's
(38:20):
going to happen?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Let me suggest that you don't know and not planning
for the unknowns is a absolute betrayal. This is how
I look at it. Okay, it's like, if I don't plan,
if your plan doesn't cover the things that you don't
know might or might not happen. If I said that correctly,
(38:43):
I'm not really sure. But if it doesn't cover the
unknown unknowns, what the hell is it you can't call
it a plan. It's not a plan. Like what's his
face said? You know, yogi Berra. You know the problem
with predictions is they're all about the future. Well, you
don't know what the future holds, so you better plan
(39:04):
as if you don't know, rather than like this idiot
as if they do know what there Oh, I know
that my disabled child is going to need two thousand
and three thousand, five thousand dollars a month, and so
I'm going to force And that's what it says here,
will that regular payments must be made, must in other words,
(39:25):
have to be in other words, regular payments must be made.
What what Maybe that be a good thing, Maybe it'd
be a bad thing. How about putting a little bit
of discretion, a little bit of judgment, a little bit
of I don't know what the future holds into the planning.
And that's the point. That's what we're doing with the
(39:46):
planning that we do. That's what the three Secrets are about.
You know, we'll tell you exactly how that works. And
that's why we do this red wagon club thing you
hear me talking about all the time. Why because we
need to adapt as the world unfolds. Don't know right
now what's gonna happen. All you have now are goals.
How you achieve those goals, Eh, that's a different story.
(40:08):
Love to see you at one of our three Secrets workshops.
You can find out when they are where they are.
Just go to the website Davidcarrier law dot com. I'm
David Carrier, your family's personal attorney. Pants Well, you could
really be a bull Obama baby if you just get
to have the chance go waste the money to sad
(40:33):
as big as a get involved
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Who and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. And you have found the place
where we talk about retirement law. That's right, what's what
we're going to call it?
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Now?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Forget about this estate planning and elder law. It's retirement
lawns for people who have retired, want to retire, wish
they retired, know somebody who retired. Anyway, It's all about
that stuff, all about how we make sure that you
get what you have earned, not so much what you deserve.
It's hard to get what you deserve, you know what
I mean. That's one of those weasel words. It's like,
(01:05):
what have you earned? What did you put in the bank,
what did you what did you do right? What did
you pay off? What did you make happen?
Speaker 3 (01:13):
You know?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
What have you earned? The old you know, I say,
the old fashioned way, right, that's what this is all about.
How do we make sure that you avoid probate, you
save taxes, you don't leave a mess. I mean, one
of the worst things, worst things that I have ever
seen thirty five years of doing this, is when we
get somebody who's got it together, right, somebody who throughout
(01:35):
their lifetime, everybody knew that this couple or the individual
whoever was kind of had it together. They were the
go to person. They were the reliable one. They were
the person who helped out, got it done all the
rest of it. Sometimes in a lead role, sometimes in
a supporting role. You know, they were the one. Maybe
they didn't organize the pancake breakfast right, but they were
(01:57):
there flipping pancakes every month. That kind of person, you
know what I mean, the go to guy, the one
that you could count on as a solid member of
the team if not, you know, the grand pubah sort
of the you know, the people I like the best
are the are the folks who you don't really know
what they do until you kind of you ever done this,
try this next time you're in an organization or or
(02:19):
at church or wherever. Okay, kind of sit back a
little bit right and just look around and see who
it is that if you took them you might say, oh,
they're just a cognitive machine. Okay, you might say that, right,
but you know, people like this might even be you.
I don't know, but if you took them out, the
(02:40):
whole machine would fall apart, right, would would crash. You know,
maybe they could get it back together again somewhat. But
you know, it's those people who you don't really notice
until you try to notice, right, I mean, you make
the effort to see who's actually doing the stuff, and
there are some people who kind of do it, and
(03:01):
some people hang back and you know, and other people
were right right out front. Okay, I'm talking about those guys,
men and women both who who are there cheerful, like
always cheerful, or just helping out, just making it work. Okay.
The worst thing, the worst thing that you see is
(03:21):
when those people go when they die, all right, and
after thirty five years, I've seen quite a bit of
it after they die, when we get called in. They
weren't clients of ours or anything like that, but you
knew who they were, right And it's a mess, right
And instead of getting instead of being remembered as the
person who made it happen, the person who you know,
(03:45):
who had it together, who did the things right, whatever
it was they get remembered. Is this pathetic? Oh such
a mess. It's terrible, you know, it's and it's not
even about the money. Really, it's not even about the
fact that well, you know, they thought they had prepared
(04:06):
the financial advisor said they had enough money. Blah blah blah.
Oh what are the odds? You know, And then you
know there's a whether it's als or Alzheimer's or Louis
body dementia or Parkinson's or one of these things. And yeah,
I know, gloom and doom, but it's reality, okay, just reality.
(04:27):
And then those plans don't quite work right, and they
go from and after they pass or just after they pass, right,
and you know, whatever it was. And then instead of
everything being all lined up, and I hear this all
the time, oh my, you know, Mam and dad they
got everything pulled together, they're all you know, everything's all
set up. And then if you get to see what
(04:48):
mom and dad actually did, right, it's like, oh, that's
a good thing they came in right, because the memory
wouldn't have been of the competence. The memory would not
have been of the confidence that they had in the future,
would not be of the values that they had. It
would be the memory is, oh, this was a mess
(05:11):
and that was a mess. And it turns people from
what they should be, which is, hey, look at how
great you know those guys did. Wow, you know, you
know Tom and Sally they did so great, right to oh,
poor Tom and Sally, or poor Sally now that Tom's gone,
because you know, the dump and it goes like from
(05:34):
admiration to being pathetic. And the worst part about it
is and I'm not you know, I don't I get
the echoes of it right in my position, I don't.
The worst part about it is the echo that you
get from people who had admired folks right and now
(05:56):
they don't have to anymore because they're not around anymore.
And it's almost, you know, it's almost malicious a little bit,
you know what I mean. When you see somebody, when
some you know, someone who's been who's done very well
right and really pulled together and stuff, it's human nature
to be envious. That's a human nature thing. And when
(06:21):
things aren't set up exactly the way they might be
right where they you know what I'm saying, It's like
they want to get a kick in, right, and it's
like it's really not as bad as they're making out right,
and these people really did amazing things. But it's sort
of like when there's a mess because there wasn't that
(06:41):
planning done. There wasn't the foresight to make sure that
everything went smoothly, okay, which is very typical. It's the
way it goes, you know. I always say ninety eight
percent of the time. I don't know if it's ninety eight,
might be ninety nine, might be ninety seven, might be
ninety three percent of the time people are I think
it's ninety eight. Just looking at the thing. People aren't prepared, right,
(07:06):
and so it's like they go from being the one
who's connected right, and everybody kind of acknowledges that to
you're like pathetic, and then the folks who wouldn't say
anything when you were around, now they get their digs in,
you know what I mean. It's awful. You hate it.
(07:28):
I hate it. I hate seeing that because what's left
is your memory is the memory that other people have
of you, Okay, and when you do it correctly, you're
not pathetic, you're not a figure of fun. You're not
a cautionary tale, right which you lived your whole life
(07:48):
not to be. You live your whole life the way
you lived your life, okay, and there's no reasonable excuse
for making you a cautionary tale. But you turn into
one when they aren't put together right. That's all I'm saying.
And that's what this retirement law thing is all about.
That's what that's our goal is not only to live
(08:09):
your life the way you want to live your life,
the way you've earned to live your life, okay, but
to make sure that you finish on a strong note
and the good that you've done continues on right. You
don't want to have too much hubris about it, you
know what I mean, or a sinful pride about it.
But the fact of the matter is when you live
(08:31):
a good life, when you do the good things all right,
it doesn't stop with you. This is the other thing
that you see a lot of where the good things
that people did during their lifetime, it's very hopeful things.
It's kind of it's a big part of what keeps
you going right because you can see that when things
are done correctly, what I would call correctly anyway, when
(08:54):
things are done right, okay, it's such a boost to
the next generation. There's there's that continuing effect that people have.
You've heard me talk about this before, you've seen it
your own self. When you do one good thing, good
things follow from it. When you do a bad thing,
(09:15):
bad things follow from it. That's just the way it goes.
And that's the question, right, what are the echoes that
are you're going to leave? What is the what is
the memory that you've created? And it's not always the
one that you've earned, That's what I'm saying. It's not
always the one that you've earned. You know, you live
seventy eighty years, earning the accolades, earning the reverence, the
(09:39):
good memory, and you're gone. But because of the way
in the you know, fumble on the one yard line
right right when you because the end part wasn't done strongly,
all the rest is ignored, and that's all they focus on.
You know how people are? You know how people are.
They don't focus on the positive. They accentuate the negative.
(10:02):
It's an unfortunate thing, but it's also reality. So what
I'm saying is what the whole purpose here is live well,
live the life that you have earned. That's what we
talk about here, That's what all this stuff is really
is really all about. And we're living now in a
era perhaps of accountability, where sloughing things off just ain't
(10:26):
gonna cut it anymore, not that it ever did, and
in our lives. But you know, there's been this sort
of national thing where you can shove it under the
under the carpet. Not anymore. You've been listening to David.
E've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's retirement law specialist rights. I don't want you
(10:52):
to tell me it's time to come on. Okay, what
you say any more? This is my life. Don't go cha.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven four twenty four,
twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
We welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm still
David Carrier. Sorry about that. Your family's personal attorney doing
retirement law, you name it, state planning, elder law, real
estate and business law. So if you have a question, comment,
or concern about Will's trusts or probate. If you wonder
how do I make sure that my retirement is what
(11:44):
I have earned as opposed to when I get stuck
with give us a call sixty one six seven seven
four twenty four twenty four. That's six one six seven
seven four twenty four twenty four. Will get your question,
comment or concern on the air. You know, we're doing
these three secrets workshops.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
Wah wah, wah.
Speaker 2 (12:04):
What are the three secrets they're going to prevent you
from enjoying your retirement? What are the three secrets that
will you know, put a hole on the boat and
watch a sink man. We don't like that. Well, if
you're wondering about that, we do the We do these
workshops every week. The Good Lord brings in all four offices,
one of the four offices always in Grand Rapids, of course,
(12:25):
but then also in Muskegan, up in Mskegan, Norton Shores area,
over in Holland and the course down in in Portage.
So go to the website David Carrier Law dot com.
That's Davidcarrier Law dot com. We don't make you wait.
See that's that's important feature. I think you know a
lot of people will oh, you know, the circus is
(12:46):
coming to town. Theory of these events and we don't
do that. It's like, no, it's more like when you
turn on the switch, we're here for you. That's that's
the idea, would you know? And I, like I said,
criticism for oh, you should do quite so many seminars
and blah blah blah, make them more special. And I
think it's pretty special every time. But that was the
(13:08):
commitment we made thirty plus years ago. It's the one
that we've been fulfilling ever since, that we are here.
We are here for you to do what you need
us to do when you need it, not you know,
oh we got to wait a couple of months or
or what have you. That doesn't work that way. Things
have been happening, haven't they. Oh my goodness. When we
(13:29):
talk about the law course and you know, how do
how do we maneuver our way through it? But right
now we've got John from Alligan. Hello, John, Welcome to
the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
Good morning, David morning.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
How can I help.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Spent four years finishing my father of the state closing
we had all up twenty twenty three, I finished the
Michigan side of it. He's been two states. Got a
letter from the Michigan Treasury said zero ode on taxes.
He had not paid his taxes before his death for
(14:10):
many years. So did all the rebuilding, did all the
tax filings, filed, and closed the estate in Michigan here
twenty three and yesterday I get three letters from our
Department of Treasury that says he had zero balance due,
(14:30):
but because you hadn't paid him on time, there was
penalties and interest for three of the years. Is there
anything they can do? I've already closed the estate everywhere
else everything's been dispersed, and or do I just call
him and say, you've missed your window?
Speaker 2 (14:51):
How much of you? How much are we talking about?
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Probably just short of ten thousand, like three one was
three thousand, two thousand, and another two thousand maybe so
five to ten thousand dollars.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
So we didn't get tax clearance certificates on them when
when you filed them, I mean afterwards.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
I did get some letters from the Treasury that said
that all everything was paid back, you know, and everything
was paid up and full, and I think I have
a certificates from them. But due to this happening, Althrough
covid our lovely Department of Treasury the left and popped
up the right hand.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Right, boy, that's a good you know, I guess, I guess. Well,
here's the here's the bottom line. The the treasury can
go back against you and go against the beneficiaries, you know,
to claw back with the interest and penalties. You know,
(15:55):
they can. That's that's a real possibility. You know, they
reopened the estate. The they're known creditor. We didn't deny them.
In fact, you paid them. We didn't get a we
didn't get a release from them, right, they just said
you don't know any more taxes. But we didn't get
a complete release from the government, and the government ignores
(16:17):
those anyway, especially when it comes to taxes. So then
the question is what can we do to settle the account?
You know, what can you do to sell the thing?
Is there any is there any chance of with the
I understand the money has been dispersed, probably years ago,
(16:38):
but I mean, how any possibility to cling it back?
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Well, I mean, yeah, I could probably talk to the
other siblings and everybody chip in, you know, out of
the five of us, you know, a couple of hours
in each and better state or the business or something
that would pay the bills. I haven't talked to the
(17:04):
state yet if these are you know, late bills that
they haven't like I said, they sent me zero bills
all through the year of twenty twenty four. They never
sent me anything previous to that to say that these
were owed. And I'll have to dig further into the treasury.
But you know, it just came up yesterday that I
(17:25):
got these. I'm wondering what my.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
You know, typically you know, but typically with these when
you get a tax bill, it includes the penalties and interest.
I wonder if this isn't one more example of left
hand not knowing what the right is doing. You know,
if they show that there's a zero balance on it,
then that would seem to me to be pretty good
evidence that it's a zero balance on it, you know,
(17:51):
I mean, what else are you supposed to think, right, yeah,
were you were you dealing with anyone in particular, or
was it just yeah, yeah, that said the government gets
what the government wants, you know. I think I think
your idea of approaching them is the is the correct
is the correct approach? You know, the generally speaking, you know,
(18:17):
when we get the letter saying it's no tax due.
We're not thinking, oh, I didn't take care of the
interest in penalties. We always assume that that that that's
the lever letter covers that, you know. I mean, I haven't.
I haven't been through this one yet, right, I mean
usually because usually it's it's a complete it's a complete
(18:37):
release now. And I will tell you just as a
matter of caution, what we will do is hold on
to you know, say ten percent or something like. You know,
we'll hold on to a certain amount until the you know,
for like a year or so, just in case anything
pops out of the woodwork. But it sounds like it
(18:58):
sounds to be distributes into a couple of years ago.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Yeah, first attributions happened the end of twenty four. The
state of Michigan we finalized in or you know, in
twenty three, so it had been a year that we
were still Yeah, so you did it.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Mhm, boy, it makes you wonder about the other state.
Now done that, I think I think the best thing.
Oh well, Gloria HALLI you for that. Oh I see,
I see you're saying that the estate remained open in
the other state. But like Florida or Texas or New
(19:40):
Hampshire or something.
Speaker 3 (19:41):
Yeah, we were state hilarious state in Michigan.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
So yeah, mm, well obviously you need to look into this,
all right. I mean we need to go deeper into it.
And I mean, how is it that you didn't get
noticed of the interest in penalties? That just seems I
can't think of a case where we didn't you know
(20:05):
where that wasn't just part of the deal. But it
sounds okay, you stumped a chump, you got me. But
I think I think the thing to do is go
back with go back to the treasury, you know, get
the revenue agent, the person who's who's managing the thing,
you know, who's doing the examining, and go through that process.
(20:26):
And I would just ask for a waiver of it
if you know, if it's if it is legit. Because
you got zero balances and you made you made the
distributions based on that, that seems very reasonable to me.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Yeah. Like I said, I didn't have the call, I
didn't have letters. I call my letters from the That's
all I can do.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Yeah, that's all you can do. You're right, well, John,
that music means I got to get out. Thank you
for the call one more example of uh, left hand,
right hand? Sorry about that. You've been listening to the
David Carriers Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Give us something to be believe? Oh the longest time?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Whoa David's got the how too? You're looking for? Just
call seven seven twenty four twenty four. This is the
David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Now's the time give us a call.
Six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
That's six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
You know the problem John had. He closed the estate,
got his bills from the get the letters from the
(21:51):
state of Michigan saying nope, you don't know any more
income texts. You know, this is what I'm talking about
in the first segment where you know, Dad worked his
whole life, cetera, cetera, but then at the end did
not pay his taxes. Right for several years, apparently did
not pay his taxes. And now does Dad get remembered?
How does Dad get remembered as the guy who didn't
(22:14):
pay his taxes? For the last several years, and apparently
he had done well enough that there was that the
penalties on his unpaid taxes amounted to over ten thousand dollars.
You see, So what do you what do you glean
from now? I mean, what's the lesson there? Well, dad,
(22:36):
if the penalties on his taxes were ten thousand, and
let's face it, many many older folks do not owe
income tax. This is why you don't file, okay, because
your income taxes be low the limit. So lots of
older folks, you know, we don't have a tax problem
because the income is so low that they don't owe taxes.
(22:56):
They don't even file them. Lots of times off, a
lot of our our folks will file the taxes only
to get the property tax, the homestead property tax credit
or other tax credits. Okay, in other words, a refund
not of income tax, but a refund of or a
(23:18):
credit against the property tax that they pay on the
home for example. Okay, so you see, you see that happening.
But Dad must have done well enough. Okay, you know,
put the let's think about the things we can't see, Like,
we don't know any of the facts about this other
than Dad owed income tax. Well, that tells you right
(23:40):
there that he did well enough in life, right, so
that his whether it was social Security or pension or
what have you, was taxable. That's more income than the
majority of older folks, retirees. Most older folks right, don't
have to pay income tax, at least not under social
Security or pension. Now, maybe there was Iraser, who knows
(24:04):
why he wasn't paying the taxes, okay, But the point
is that he worked hard enough during his lifetime. Okay,
he was methodical, he was routine. He did what he
needed to do in order to retire with sufficient income
that he owed taxes on it, which in itself is
like I say, it's not common, but it's common, but
(24:25):
it's not everybody he did. Okay. Now, he screwed up
by not paying his income tax. I get it. You know,
he should have filed the returns. But the fact that
he needed to file the returns, okay, the fact that
he needed to indicates that he did pretty well right
during his lifetime. He must have done pretty well, otherwise
it wouldn't even be an issue. Okay. And now then
(24:48):
the stake comes against it and the mess is dumped
on the kids. His dad remembered as the guy who
worked hard. No, he's remembered as the guy who left
the mess. This is exactly what I'm talking talking about.
You don't want to be that guy. And then see,
and then here's the other thing. Who remembers the stuff
(25:09):
about John's dad that got him to that point, right,
Who remembers what he did, the good things that he did.
And now this is just further repercussions coming from the
retirement part of life, the retirement law part of life
not being handled, not being handled correctly, and even the
(25:31):
you know, the inheritance, which five kids and they all
got an inheritance. That's pretty good, pretty good significant, And
that's all, you know what I mean. It's the taint
that you don't you don't get the credit for what
(25:52):
you did because of the way it was finished, which
is terrible. But that's human nature, you know, when we
uh think about it. Anytime you go to oh, I
don't know whether it's in school or whatever, you go
to learn something, the things that you remember, the very
first things that you hear, the very last things. Okay,
(26:14):
what will people remember about you? Well, lots of times
it will be the first thing they ever knew about
you as a parent, they'll remember that, and then they'll
remember how things ended, and they won't focus very much
on the on the in between. That's just that's just
human nature. That's just the way. That's just the way
it goes. So we wish John the best of luck
(26:34):
with that good thing. That it is possible, because lots
of times with the states, right once they're distributed, the
money spent and there's no there's no getting it back.
And then because there is joint and several liability, everybody,
you know, everybody is liable for it, and the state
can be very can be very unforgiving. So let's let's
(26:57):
follow that one. But you know, it also gets you.
I mean, here's the other thing. Why didn't the state
come forward and say, hey, os not only the taxes
but also the interest and penalties. Every notice I've ever
seen from the government includes that stuff. But what we're
finding out now apparently, is that the whole federal government,
(27:20):
the whole tax system, runs on a thing called cobal.
Cobal was the business language. Okay, back in the day,
in the seventies. In high school, I was fortunate to
have a new college grad who knew about the computers, right,
and there were basically, as I recall, there were two
(27:40):
computer languages that you could learn. There was Fortran, which
was an engineering language more or less, and then Cobal,
which was the business language. And supposedly Cobal was easier, right,
But Cobal had been written by Grace Hopper, who was
in a Navy admiral admiral and the United States Navy
(28:02):
who retired. But because the Navy ran on Cobal and
they didn't know how it worked, this is true, they
had to bring her back. They retired her. I got
to I got to meet her when they retired her
a second time. This is when I went over to
the Pentagon and I met her at an event, and
she was she wasn't she was out in the Navy
(28:23):
at that time, because they retired her a second time
after they brought her back to explain Cobal to the
newbiest who didn't understand how it worked, and because she
wrote the damn thing or significant contributor to that. But
she was I just I still remember she was just
you know, five foot two, you know, pulled together, wearing
a blue business suit, not a uniform anymore. But she
(28:45):
had her patent leather navy shoes on. I just I
do remember. I remember that part and I was all,
I was all so excited. Oh, I'm going to be
you know, over at the job, pointed to the Pentagon
to do this computer stuff, et cetera, cetera. And she
shook my hand and told me that I had her.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
You know.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
I said, oh, I'm at the you know, disappointed me
to the Pentagon, and she goes, oh, you have my
deepest sympathy, and I'm like, oh, I thought it was
pretty cool. Later on, you know, in the reality of
working there, she was right. She was right. You know,
you go into that place, see and this is this
is why what's going on currently is so exciting to
(29:27):
me because I went when I went into the Pentagon,
I was full of we're going to get this done.
We're going to do these great things and computerize this
and do this and do that. And you just run
into a it's not a brick wall, you know, a
brick wall, maybe you can batter it down, it's a
it's a jello wall made out of jello. You're not
(29:49):
getting through it. You're not going to get you can't
get over it. You can't dig into it and climb
over it. Right, You can't batter it down. It just
absorbs whatever you have. And so what's going on currently
is actually pretty exciting to me, you know, to watch
people actually start to melt the jell start to get
through the government. And the point of that whole story
(30:11):
was apparently the IRS still runs on Cobol still forty
years later, They're still using a computer language is outdated.
When I was on active duty, and it was the
thing when I was in high school. It was the thing, right,
it was what they had, but they were developing new
stuff that would be a lot better and was now
(30:31):
CE double plus and all the rest of this. But
the fact that the IRS is still running on Cobol
is actually absolutely a head scratcher. Don't get it. Listening
to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's
personal attorneys.
Speaker 1 (31:01):
David's working and working and taking your calls. Now this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (31:09):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, inviting you to a life plan workshop.
The three secrets things that you need to know are
they secret? Wow, We've been doing these workshops for a while.
I guess the word is out, not really secret, but
they might as well be. You're not going to hear
them anywhere else, So give us a call six one
(31:30):
six seven seven four twenty four twenty four six one
six seven seven four two four two four. That's to
ask a question right now. But if you'd like to
learn the three secrets, I want to find out what
your financial advisor, your accountant, your whoever brother you know,
buddy over the backyard fence. Of course, given the weather today,
(31:53):
it's prying that over the backyard fence anyway, that person,
you know. Where you get all your information, good information,
what they're wrong about. Go to the website David Carrier Law,
Squish it all together, Davidcarrier Law dot com. And on
the Davidcarrier Law dot com. We got a new thing.
(32:13):
We've got a new thing. You should try it. It's
a AI thing that will answer your questions. It'll pop up.
You gotta give it like ten seconds or something like that.
I forget how long. But go to the website and
this thing will pop up and you can ask it
free form questions and whatnot and get answers that well
so far they've been pretty good. I like anyway, that's
(32:35):
the website. Find out about the workshops. Love to see
you at the workshops. Now, I'm going to go to
a one of our emails here. And it is a
not uncommon situation. Okay, it happens this way in more
ways than you can think. But anyway, here's the thing.
How can I preserve my full health benefits if I'm
(32:57):
about to receive regular payments from an inheritance trust. My
parent who recently passed let me trust close to a
million bucks and will that regular payments must be made
to me. People do this. It's insane. It's insane, it's wrong,
it's bad. You shouldn't do it. But they do it
all the time because they want to make sure that
the kid gets the money right, but they want to
(33:20):
make sure they don't get it all at once right. Well,
the all at once, of course, is terrible, but this
is just as bad. It's just as bad. The trust
administered by an attorney. Wooh, there's another mistake. Don't have
your attorney be your trustee. You know, attorneys are not
good at being trustee. Attorneys are good at doing attorney stuff.
(33:41):
Get a trust company, a bank, or somebody to be
the trustee. It's a different line of business. Okay, if
your attorneys being the trustee, I think they're skimming. That's
what I think. But oh no, that's horrible to say, ooh,
because attorneys would never do that. Gohad knows. They would
never send you to the person to really do the job.
Speaker 3 (34:01):
No.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Instead, they'll give you investment services, they'll give you trustee services,
they'll do all kinds of other things that they didn't
go to law school for. But I'm the one who's
I'm I'm the one who's out of line, got it anyway.
I'm over sixty five, I receive retirement disability benefits and
have full health and Medicaid coverage. I do not need
(34:23):
this much money and would like to know what can
be done to protect me from losing my benefits. The
answer is nothing. Zero Because here's the problem. If you
create a trust that is fully discretionary, fully discretionary meaning
it's one hundred percent up to the trustee how much
money you get, which could include zero. Okay, a fully
(34:45):
discretionary trust where you cannot compel regular payments or the
income or anything, right, then that trust doesn't count a
third party Mom or Dad, third party some somebody else,
not you, third party discretionary trust. If it's done correctly,
(35:07):
and it's not hard to do it correctly, but if
it's done correctly, then none of the assets in the
trust will count against the beneficiary. But people don't do
it correctly. They do this kind of thing where they say, oh,
you've got to get a certain amount of money. It's
like the worst of all worlds because the trustee now
(35:28):
has to give you X amount of dollars, which almost
guaranteed is going to be treated as income well, which
will knock you off certain benefits. Okay, at home care,
the PACE program we talk about all the time, assisted
living benefits, forget about it. Now you've got too much
income because whatever income it is supposed to be paying
(35:51):
out of this million dollars is now your entitlement, and
if you could take it, then you must take it.
That's how that's how medicaid works. Okay. It's not just
what income you have, not just what assets you actually
have in your name. It also includes whatever assets you
(36:11):
are entitled to. Thirty years ago, when I first started
doing this stuff, there was a big brew haha, about
like injury settlements and stuff. Okay, So the person gets
injured and their recovery is very very little, very little,
and the recovery all the all goes to the family
(36:34):
for loss of consortium, loss of you know, the pleasure
of your company, that kind of thing. Okay. So the
person who is now on medicaid got you know, ten cents.
Everybody else got the big money. Okay. And they went
after that they said, look, if if you had a
right an entitlement to recover in a lawsuit, you have
(36:56):
to exercise that right. You can't waive it in favor
of family members lost a consortium. So there there's been
a fight about this. Okay, this is a This is
not a new issue. If you're entitled to something, you
have to take it. So in this case, the letter
writer says, well, I'm getting I don't know who knows
(37:16):
what it is, say a couple thousand dollars a month, right,
which would be low because it's a million dollars. A
couple thousand a month is twenty five thousand dollars a year.
It's not that much money, okay, but it's enough to
screw up your medicaid and you're not going to get
any benefit from it, even if you do qualify, because
they're going to take it, they're going to offset. So yeah,
(37:39):
so this is terrible. The way this is done is terrible. Naturally,
we don't do it this way. What we do when
you're leaving anything, and it's not just to somebody, it's
not just to someone who you think is disabled or
who has actually disabled. How do you know who's going
(37:59):
to be disabled next week, next month, next year? How
do you know? How do you know who's going to
go bankrupt? How do you know when you know a
powerful virus of unknown origin shows up again, right and
shuts everything down, and sixty percent of small businesses go bankrupt,
including your kids? Like, how do you know when that's
(38:20):
going to happen?
Speaker 3 (38:21):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Let me suggest that you don't know and not planning
for the unknowns is a absolute betrayal. This is how
I look at it. Okay, it's like, if I don't plan,
if your plan doesn't cover the things that you don't
know might or might not happen. If I said that correctly,
(38:43):
I'm not really sure. But if it doesn't cover the
unknown unknowns, what the hell is it you can't call
it a plan. It's not a plan. Like what's his
face said? You know, yogi Berra. You know the problem
with predictions is they're all about the future. Well, you
don't know what the future holds, so you better plan
(39:04):
as if you don't know, rather than like this idiot
as if they do know what there Oh, I know
that my disabled child is going to need two thousand
and three thousand, five thousand dollars a month, and so
I'm going to force And that's what it says here,
will that regular payments must be made, must in other words,
(39:25):
have to be in other words, regular payments must be made.
What what Maybe that be a good thing, Maybe it'd
be a bad thing. How about putting a little bit
of discretion, a little bit of judgment, a little bit
of I don't know what the future holds into the planning.
And that's the point. That's what we're doing with the
(39:46):
planning that we do. That's what the three Secrets are about.
You know, we'll tell you exactly how that works. And
that's why we do this red wagon club thing you
hear me talking about all the time. Why because we
need to adapt as the world unfolds. Don't know right
now what's gonna happen. All you have now are goals.
How you achieve those goals, Eh, that's a different story.
(40:08):
Love to see you at one of our three Secrets workshops.
You can find out when they are where they are.
Just go to the website Davidcarrier law dot com. I'm
David Carrier, your family's personal attorney. Pants Well, you could
really be a bull Obama baby if you just get
to have the chance go waste the money to sad
(40:33):
as big as a get involved
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