Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carriers Show on David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Of course, we are springing forward today,
which means that I thought you were tuned in for
the first hour by actually it's the second hour. Aren't
you lucky? Aren't you lucky? Yes, you are. You missed
out on the first hour. We did a recap on
iras individual retirement accounts and the question is who should
(00:56):
be the beneficiary? Is number one. It's horrible to make
your kids beneficiary, especially of a traditional IRA. You waste
the opportunity and you expose the kids the needless liability.
Now it's not like the kids don't have to, you know,
participate in the needless liability, but you're setting them up
(01:18):
for a bad situation. And it got a question about that,
give us a shout back. But you can do that
easily six one, six, seven, seven, four, twenty four twenty four.
That's six one, six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
We did our first national webinar that was last week
(01:39):
on how to use AI, How AI is transforming and
state planning, How AI tools are really going to make
what we do a lot, a lot easier, a lot
more available. You know, we've may have thirty five years
and we've done tens of thousands of plans over the
(02:00):
over that period of time, So we got a lot
of plans out there, right, but most of it has
been sort of the brute force, you know, individual one
on one. You know, faithful listeners know that for the
last year or so, we've been moving towards a workshop model,
so that in order to deal one to many. We
(02:21):
still do a lot of one on one stuff obviously,
and that's appropriate in some cases, but there's an awful
lot of folks who can benefit from the lower cost
of doing the workshop model. If you're curious about the workshop,
just go to the website and speaking to AI, you know,
go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com and wait
(02:42):
about twenty seconds. I think they're having problems with the
Firefox browser, but that should be fixed. Wait about twenty
seconds and the AI assistant will pop up and it's
been trained on my stuff, so it should. It might
sound a little familiar supposed to. But we give you
(03:05):
some prompts there. You know, you can just click on
the things there and or you can add your own
details right and when you do. It's not a chatbot.
It's not gonna be one of those things that you
put all your information in. You know, you have to
put information in personal stuff. But if you if you
go there and you ask it a question. You know,
(03:26):
I'm married, three kids, you know, networth whatever, got a house,
my grandmo, my mother in law is in the nursing home.
What should we do? You know, and she's got whatever
something something like that. And it won't just say, oh,
give me your email address and we'll put you in
(03:46):
touch with one of our attorneys. I've been to all
these other chatbots. It's all they do. It's all they
do is is just like try to set you up
a phone appointment with somebody. And it's like the proms
AI was that it would give you some actual, useful,
helpful information. Now it's not an end result, and I
(04:10):
don't think it ever will be be because the AI
hallucinates if you've used it, If you've done that, Jack
Gpt or Rock or whoever, right, very quickly, it begins
hallucinating stuff. It makes stuff up. It's it's like there
have been lawyers. There are a lot of lawyers now,
(04:30):
or at least enough so they've made the news where
the lawyer asked the AI to write a brief, you know,
and they submitted the brief to court. Well, you read
the brief and oh, well this looks pretty good. Yeah,
it looks pretty good until you realize it's all bs.
(04:52):
The AI makes stuff up, makes up laws, makes up
cases based on the patterns that it's seen. Well, that's
not how it works, you know. It's not the computer
making up the law that it would like to have
to make the argument that you would like to make.
That isn't that isn't right. Okay, And then you know,
(05:14):
you know, you can say what you want about judges
and what have you. You know, they understand they can
tell when you know when the AI is hallucinating. So
you can't really we're not at a point right now
where you can really use the AI too. You can't
(05:34):
go to and say here's my situation, do me in
a state plant because it's likely to come up with
stuff that laws that don't really exist and say that
you can do things that you can't really do because
it's not reliable. On the other hand, what we've done
(05:55):
is we've really restricted what it can look at to
our stuff, the stuff that we've already done. In fact,
we're trying to figure out how to get the radio
shows on there, you know, to you know, hopefully get
some of the content that we've got here. We've got
the we've got the newspaper stuff is on there, and
you know, a bunch of a bunch of the other
stuff that we've done is on the is already in
(06:17):
the AI, right, so it's trained on that, but you
still have to be careful. I haven't seen it go
crazy yet, but you still have to be careful because
we're not really we're not using it to draft documents
per se, although there are something some places. We are
using it to help fill in forms and things like that.
(06:40):
The point is that, when it's done correctly with the
AI is a tool that lets each individual be more
effective doing what they're doing, meaning that instead of getting
a cookie cutter blah, blah blah like you get everywhere else,
you know, the usual thing. Instead, we can actually tailor
(07:03):
this to you very particularly and more importantly, make sure
that it actually works over time, so as your situation changes,
as the rules change. You know, we're already sitting there
not the weekly newsletter, and we're doing all the events
and stuff. Yeah, we're doing a lot to make that happen.
The question is is there way to do it more effectively,
(07:25):
more efficiently, you know, to keep the costs down. That's
the you know, that's really the issue. And so far
it's been it's been a really useful tool, but it's
it's a little bit scary because you've got to you
can see very easily how people would just say, oh,
(07:46):
let the AI do it. Oh my god, that's like no, no,
don't don't let just don't just let the AI do it.
If you let the AI do it, you'll get Well,
here's the thing. Over the years, we've gotten a lot
of people fill in the forms, you know, they got
the forms from somewhere, did the the computer stuff. And
(08:10):
there's two times when we see that one is here,
cauld you look at this, Did I do it correctly?
Which we don't. Really, we're not here to vet somebody
else's stuff, but we'll take a look at it just
to you know. It's like, I'm not here to correct
somebody else's work, okay, But when you go through it
and you say, well, did you really mean to do
(08:32):
it's like, oh, I didn't do that at all, and yeah, here,
here's where it is. You put the names in the
wrong place or whatever it may be. So so there's
that issue, and then the second, at least you can
fix the first one. The second is when somebody has
done one of these you know, follow this, you know,
put the CD in and enter the code, and well
(08:54):
is when you're actually trying to use it because the
person's not competent to anymore, or they've died, you know,
and now you're trying to make it, actually make it
work in it, and it's so clue g you can't
make it. You can't. You can see what they were
trying to do, but it doesn't really work to do it.
(09:15):
So it's a lot more work than if they just
hadn't done anything at all, and obviously much more work
than if they had done it correctly. So the computers
are helpful. Computers are useful. We love them. You know,
I've been programming since I was in high school. I
started off with fourtran and you know, one of these, uh,
(09:37):
one of the two second generation languages. You know, it
wasn't machine code, but it was second generation. Anyway. The
point is that do we like AI. We like AI, yes,
but we don't let AI have the run of the house. Okay,
we package up AI. We put it over there in
the corner where it can do the most good. Right,
(09:57):
and maybe we'll and we're experimenting, maybe do a few
more things with it. Okay, but what you cannot do
and it's very useful, you know, for you to go there.
So go to the website Davidcarrier law dot com. All right,
let the thing pop up, ask you some questions, see
what you you know. I'd be very interested in in
some feedback on that. You know, we've tested it obviously,
(10:20):
but you know what do you what do you think?
And let people on the radio know what you know?
Is it? Is it useful? The idea was to get
to get some basic stuff out there, some basic information.
It's not a replacement for a plan, but should be
very helpful. Moving in that direction, you're listening to the
David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
(10:52):
Bob Bob.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven twenty four, twenty four.
This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. We've got Bob on the line.
Good morning, Bob. Welcome to the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Good morning David.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
I love your show, listen all the time. My wife
and I are actually clients, and we're about two three
years in on our five year look back. But my
question is I have elderly parents, and I know for
a fact that they have a trust. But my father's
(11:57):
developed some pretty serious health issues with his heart, and
also he's developed Parkinson's and he's requiring a whole lot
of my mother to care for, to the point that
I feel like assisted living might be in the not
too distant future. He says, there's no way in heck
(12:19):
he's going into assisted living, but my mother's being ragged,
and I'm wondering if he changes his mind, are they
going to lose everything they have because in their trust,
I don't know that they're protected or their assets, if
you will, are protected like my wife's and.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I are, right.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So do you do we have an idea of mom
and Dad's net worth or are they very private about
that as well?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Do you have anything they're with me?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
And so they have a paidoff condo value approximately three
point fifty maybe let's say a hunt you're ad it
one hundred thousand in the bank and as far as
they know, and a paid off car as far as
I know that, that's the extent of the network.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Okay, good news. So here's the thing. First of all.
First of all, what we would do is look to
see if they have a revocable trust, which is probably
what they've got, right, because that's what people do, and
they probably did a Ladybird deed, a transfer on death
deed to the to the trust. That's a bad idea,
(13:29):
especially in your folks situation. That's a fifty thousand dollars mistake,
at least for them. Here's why. If we applied for
medicaid right now, Medicaid would say, well what do you got?
Mom and Dad say, well, we got a car. We
don't care about the car. What else you got, Well,
we got a house with a ladybird deed on it.
They say, ah, we don't care about that either. What
(13:51):
else you got they say, well, we got one hundred
thousand dollars? They say, who now we care. I'll tell
you what. Come back and see us when you've got
fifty thousand dollars, right, and then Dad can get the medicaid.
So now you gotta bear with me on this because
this is this is absolute fruit loop material. Okay, what
we're gonna do is we're gonna put the house, the
(14:12):
condo in the trust. Now their trust, our trust, whatever trust.
But it goes in a revocable trust, which everyone tells
you is terrible. Oh, don't do that. It makes the trust.
It makes the condo count like it's cash. Okay, when
you put the homestead in a revocable living trust, now
(14:33):
the homestead counts as if it was cash. You say, oh,
that's terrible, and I say, no, it's not terrible. That's
actually a good thing because mom and Dad get to
keep or mom gets to keep half of the family
countable assets up to a maximum of about one hundred
and sixty thousand maximums one hundred and sixty that she
(14:55):
can keep, but she gets to keep half up to
that maximum. Okay, well, right now they've got one hundred thousand,
so she gets to keep fifty. But if I put
that house the condo in the trust, now they don't
have one hundred and fifty one hundred thousand of countable assets.
They've got four hundred and fifty thousand dollars with countable assets,
(15:17):
which means that Mom gets to keep one hundred and
sixty thousand dollars of cash. You say, yeah, but they
don't have one hundred and sixty thousand of cash. I say, yeah,
they don't have one hundred and sixty, but they got
one hundred. So now mom gets to max out. Mom
gets to keep all of their assets up to a maximum.
And so let's say our math is wrong. Let's say
(15:38):
it turns out they've got one hundred and fifty thousand. Great,
we just saved them from the seventy five thousand dollars mistake.
Are you with me on this now? You say, but
wait a second, Wait a second. So Mom gets to
keep all the cash, but now the house the condo
counts like it was money. Now I'm gotta sell the condo.
(15:58):
That's crazy. You're in idiot, Get off the air, leave
me alone. After Dad qualifies for the Medicaid, after we
pass what we call the snapshot date, we're going to
take the house out of the trust and put it
in mom's name. When we do that, it's homestead again,
(16:20):
it's homestead. It doesn't count. It's exempt. Okay, So we
want them to see it when we apply. But then
and we give them a copy of everything we do.
We're completely transparent upfront everything else. But when you do this,
Mom just saved fifty one hundred however much it was
(16:41):
one thousand dollars, which was going to make a difference. Okay,
So that's number one. That's the first thing we're going
to do, all right, is make sure that we keep
all of their life savings. We're not going to risk
any of it. We're not risking the condo, We're not
risking any of the cash. Now, dag, Now, how much
income does that have a month?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
If I could ask, boy, I really don't know. I
know he is, say a GM pension and then social Security,
But what that amounts to a month, I truly do
not know.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Okay, So here's so here's the deal on that. If
he has more than twenty nine hundred dollars a month
of income, he's not going to qualify for my favorite
program in the world, which is at home care, which
is PACE. Okay, he's not going to qualify for it.
But but he's got a GM pension. Guess what we
(17:38):
can do. Guess what We can go to circuit court
and we can say, hey, Judge, I would like to
move dad's GM pension from dad to mom. And the
judge says, gee, I'm very curious about why you would
want to do that, but I have no legal basis.
(18:00):
We're asking and we say, that's right, you don't. We
are a married couple. We're rearranging our assets. Okay, now
repeat after me. This is not a divorce. You gotta
say this is not a do say it again. This
is not a divorce.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
This is not a divorce.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Come on, is this a divorce? Bob?
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Are we talking about divorced?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Amen? Brother? It is not a divorce. It's we're settling
up the assets, the income between mom and dad. Now
when Mom gets the pension, Dad only has his Social
Security he qualifies Mom is now secure right under whatever
the terms of the pension were as far as Dad
(18:47):
was getting it. Now she gets it. Okay, so we
got the The GM pension is now protected. Mom now
has all of their cash life savings, and the condo
is in her name. And now Dad qualifies next month
for Medicaid, qualifies for the program of all inclusive care program.
(19:11):
Are they in Kent County, Bob, if I could ask.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yes, yep.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Byron Center, Nah.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Perfect, So at forty fourth and Kalamazoo is the main
pace senior center. They've got procedure rooms. They've got thirty
five bathrooms and each one has a shower in it.
They've got a full compounding pharmacy down in the basement.
They've got a big area. They play bingo every day.
There's tables of guys lying to each other about their
(19:40):
war records and hunting and every other day thing. And
there's signs you know, how many miles to you know,
if you walk this far, you've gone to here, to mckinaw.
I mean, it's a wonderful place full of wonderful people
who are going through what your parents are going through.
But nobody's going to the nursing home, no one's going
to assisted living Okay, if you want to hang on,
(20:03):
I'm the music is about to start here, so just
hang on through the next one if you if you will,
and we'll recap for you.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Okay, okay, thanks David, you.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Bet you, Thanks Bob, Okay, John, you can start playing
(20:33):
I Love the PA.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And the Way the Sunlight plays a partner.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
David's got the how too. You're looking for Just call
seven seven four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Give us a call. Oh why
don't you have six one six seven seven four twenty
four twenty four. At six one six seven seven four
twenty four twenty four, go to the website Davidcarrier Law
dot com. We've got our new AI, a personal assistant
(21:15):
up there. You can ask it questions. You can click
on the questions that are already there. Don't forget to
hit that little airplane paper airplane thing you need to
make it go. But it's it's not a chatbot that's
just going to ask for your email. It doesn't even
ask you for that. I mean, eventually, at some point
you can put it in if you want to, but
but it will give it a try. I mean, it
(21:37):
doesn't cost you anything. We're talking with Bob, who's worried
about mom and dad, especially Dad. They've got a condo
three point fifty more or less with one hundred thousand
dollars in savings. Dad's a GM retiree, which means he's
got significant pension income which probably together with his Social
(21:58):
Security is going to put him over the income limit
to benefit from the program of all inclusive care for
the elderly. The question is what do we do now
when mom and Dad are both crossed my heart and
hope to die. I ain't going to no nursing home.
And the answer is, I mean, have I got it
so far? Bob, I'm thinking right spot on, David Oki, dok.
(22:25):
So here's what we're going to do. They've already got
a trust almost guaranteed. See, here's the problem that you
keep getting into in this area. Okay. People hear things
and they repeat things, and that becomes the conventional wisdom
that becomes truth even if it isn't truth. And what
everybody knows is that putting the homestead into a trust
(22:50):
is a bad idea and the theory is that's a
bad idea because it makes the house count as if
it was cash. And you think that's a bad idea, Well,
and it might be. It might be, but it might
not be. And in Mom and Dad's case, it's not.
It's if they have one hundred thousand dollars, and I
(23:11):
bet you it's more close than one hundred and fifty,
just guessing. They get to keep half of that. Mom
gets to keep half of that, all right, In other words,
fifty thousand or seventy five thousand, whatever it is, Mom
gets to keep half. So you said, well, better nothing.
I agree with you. It is better than nothing. But
(23:31):
if I put the house into the put the condo
into the trust, if I actually date it in not
a ladybird d which is what everybody's doing, because everybody heard, oh,
lady birdy good for medicaid without thinking it through. You
gotta think this stuff through. When we put it in there.
It counts like cash. The condo. Does it counts like cash?
Does it count like cash? Yes, it counts like cash. Okay.
(23:53):
The benefit of that is when I Mom gets to
keep half of the cash, that means that I got
three hundred and fifty thousand of condo that counts like cash,
and one hundred thousand of real cash. So now I've
got four hundred and fifty thousand dollars of cash that
(24:13):
I have to deal with. Well, according to Medicaid, Mom
gets to keep half of that to a maximum of
one hundred and sixty. In other words, Mom gets to
keep all one hundred thousand. But I've still got this
condo now that counts like cash. No problem. I dd
it out of the trust into Mom's name. Now it
(24:35):
doesn't count at all. It just boof disappeared. Wait is it?
How could that work? That's totally bogus. That's ridiculous. I
agree with you. I didn't make the rules. I'm just
trying to figure out how Bob's mom and dad don't
go broke. Okay, so now the house, well aren't we all?
(25:00):
I mean, isn't that what we've been doing our whole lives?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Now mom gets to keep Mom gets to keep the condo,
she gets keep the one hundred thousand. But uh oh, Dad
still doesn't qualify for at home care because of that
GM pension. No problem. Now we go to circuit court
and it's not a divorce not a divorce, not a divorce.
It's the property settlement part, but it's not a divorce.
(25:27):
Mom and Dad are not getting divorced. No, And everybody
who says, oh, you're gonna get divorced, No, you don't.
It's stupid. Don't do it. But I do want to
move Mom's pension. Excuse me, move Dad's pension over to Mom.
And when I've done that, Dad now qualifies for five
days a week of people coming taking him over to
(25:50):
the old John Knox Church where all this stuff is
going on. All his meds are covered, all his durable
medical equipment is covered, all his procedures, everything's covered. It's
one hundred. That's why they say program of all inclusive.
All inclusive means all inclusive everything. Okay, you don't have
(26:11):
to pay for the supplement insurance anymore. You know you're
all good to go now. You might want to keep
it from Mom. I get that, the GM insurance, the
UAW insurance, you keep that for Mom. But for Dad,
now everything is everything's taken care of, everything's paid for.
Here's the other part of that. Dad doesn't want to
go to a residential care facility. And I do not
(26:33):
blame him at all. However, for about five percent of
PACE recipients about five percent. Nationally, ninety five percent of
people die at home. Good, That's what I'd rather do.
Mom would like to keep him at home, but she
can't handle it. Understood? Could mom handle it if she
(26:55):
was getting five days a week? The nice young men
come from PACE, help dad with personal hygiene, put him
in a bus. He spends the day up to five
days a week. Maybe it's one day a week, maybe
it's three, maybe it's none, maybe it's every other week.
Who knows. Work out the schedule that makes the sense
for you. Okay, but now Mom gets to go work
(27:18):
in the thrift shop. Mom gets to go shopping, Mom
gets to take a nap whatever, whatever it is this program?
Are you with me on this? I mean, how's that
going to help mom's health? You know, she doesn't have
to wrestle him in out of the bathtub anymore.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
See, and you already paid for it. You already paid
for it. And here's the other thing. What usually happens
in mom and dad's case. Two things happen. One, Mom
finally realizes that she can't keep Dad at home, and
over Dad's strenuous objection. He's going to a residential care facility,
which is thousands of dollars a month. There goes the money.
(27:57):
You know, a year later, the money's all gone. Is
I'm going to do? It's terrible and she feels guilty
about it.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
The other alternative is mom kills herself keeping Dad out
of the nursing home, which means he's not moving to
a bob. They don't want that either. He'd rather go
to the nurse. Great Now we're in the nursing home.
So it's like, what if we didn't have to go
to the nursing home ever, not at all? What if
we could stay at home but recognize that mom needs
(28:25):
some help, right, she doesn't need the thousands and thousand
dollars a month of hired help. She can't afford it. Okay,
got it. But what if she already paid for it?
What if she and Dad already paid for it? And
guess what they did already pay for it. It's called pace.
So that's what I'm going to recommend in a situation
(28:48):
like this. You don't have to lose the pens because
this is what happens because people who don't know what
they're talking about. Will say, oh, Dad's got too much income. Boom,
he doesn't qualify. I say, dad's got too much income.
We're going to go to circuit court and we're going
to move that pension over to mom. So Mom and
Dad continue to receive the benefits of the thirty years
he put in, you know, sticking parts on cars, you know,
(29:11):
whatever was he was doing for GM. Okay, he's going
to continue that that what he has earned is going
to be honored, not not trashed. Do you see?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
So yep? Okay.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
So then there you go scheme of things to restructure
the trust they have or you know, probably cancel that
and rewrite. Would it be you know, approximately the same
cost as what my wife and I went through to
set up all of our stuff, or would it be
more possibly or how where does that fall?
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah? Yeah, so it depends. I mean, we we'd want
to see how much how much income does he have
because if he's under the limit, then I don't even
have to go to court. That's a good thing, all right,
that's that's that's lovely. And then if all we have
to do is this trust, okay, then but you still
have to do a Medicaid application. You know, there's there's
(30:07):
stuff that needs to be done. You can do it yourself,
we can do it for you. You know, it's up
to it's up to you. But you know how we operate.
I mean, we quote fees or we tell you I
can't quote a fee. You know, we really do try
to quote the fee so you know, going in and
then once we quote a fee, we just stick with it,
you know, even if it's even if we recredit. That's
(30:31):
how it goes. Thank you about for Colin. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Great.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Thank you. Take care.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Now.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yep, you've been listening to the David Carrier Show on
David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
David's working and working and taking your calls. Now this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. We've got Mark
from Kentwood on the line in just a couple of minutes.
So Mark fire away.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Well, I was wondering talking about, oh if I could
put my kid as a co owner of my IRA to.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Avoid You can't, No, you can't. You're you can name
beneficiaries on your IRA, but not co owners.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Oh so when.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
You pass Yeah, it'll be too easy. Huh no, you
you yeah, you you you know. In fact, lots of
times we get married couple and they're like, well, we
have a joint IRA, and I'm like, well, let's just
take a look at the at the paperwork, shall we,
(32:13):
because that would be the first one I've seen of those.
But you know, sometimes married couple think it's it's joint.
But what will happen is you'll be with a financial advisor,
for example, and the financial advisor will have an integrated
or a comprehensive, amalgamated whatever you want to say, statement,
(32:33):
and I'll have both names on it. But then when
you go through, what it does is that it brings
together all the various investments that they have. Some are
i RA, some are not i RA, some are insurance,
whatever it may be. So it all comes together on
the same statement. But you can't really not you know,
that's what the I and individual is for right individual retirement.
(32:57):
So but but like about how much you have in
the IRA, if you want to ballpark it.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
For me, Oh, one of them is one hundred forty thousands,
about one hundred forty thousand. Oh, the other one that
an annuity, But that that's coming up to about a
year and a half.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Okay, really, no, it's going to be paid out it's
good or it's going to be reaching.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
It's the end of its ten year cycle. Little I
haven't figured out what.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Okay, right, so I just.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
What go ahead?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
No, I was just gonna say, our general rule of
thumb is if you've got more than one hundred thousand
in an IRA, then the the tax cost of not
planning for that, I mean, not being serious about planning
for that really gets out of really gets out of control.
(34:09):
I mean it's cost of That's what I'm saying. It's
cost effective. You know, once you get over one hundred
thousand traditional it makes sense, it really makes sense to
do something with it because you know, like I was
saying before, you'll have triple You have three times as
much in a IRA as you will in a conventional
(34:31):
or tax paid investment where you're paying the taxes on
a monthly basis. So you know, if it's done correctly
and you can keep the kid, which you can keep
the kid from cashing it in as soon as you
reach room temperature, then you know you can wind up
leaving really three times as much to the kid, you know,
(34:53):
So that's the that's the thing to be. You know
that that's what we're focusing on. I mean, number one,
of course, we got to preserve it for you, for
your ciut number one, it's always job one. But but
the amount of wasted money, the wasted opportunity, the amount
of money that the middle class is just thrown away
(35:15):
because there's no common sense about how anybody plans for
this stuff. It's it drives you crazy, which explains my situation.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
That's why I'm in the rubber room here with the
you know, they stick a microphone under the door every
Sunday and that's that's my only therapy.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
It drives you nuts because there's just so much. Look,
you work too hard, you did too much right, and
then it all gets blown up because people aren't willing
to take fifteen minutes to think about what they're doing
and put in a put a plan in place that
requires a little bit of patience. You know. It's just
(35:57):
that that's why it's you know, and you know, I
get people tell me. I'll ask me that I've heard
it million times of questions, What the hell do I care?
You know, it's my kids, you know, let the kids
take care of it. And well I'm sympathetic to that,
but they're not gonna.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
All right. I had a friend years and years ago
that when this IRA stuff all started up, he wouldn't
do it. And I mean he was like the lone
person in the room. Everybody else thought it was a
(36:37):
great idea. He wouldn't do it. And I think I've
finally figured it out after half a lifetime. Why he
would he would do it. He didn't want to get
caught up and all that thing trap.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Look look look look Mark, are you married?
Speaker 5 (37:05):
Oh? All right?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Oh okay, But it's it's kind of like marriage, you
know what I mean. It's like, you know, yeah, it's
a pain in the ass compared to what, right, the
thing with the IRA isn't as good as you could
imagine it. No, is anything as good as you could
imagine it. No, but you know, it's like, you know,
(37:37):
what did they say? You know, it's something about uh
you know, uh uh you know marriage has pain, but
celibacy has no joy, you know what I mean? I
mean something you know, it's like in the fact of
the matter, is with a lot of these things if
(37:58):
you if you actually a little work into it, which
I get nobody wants to do. But if you put
a little bit of work into it, and that's what
we've been doing for thirty five years, it really you
can really do so much better than you thought was possible.
You know, it's like this. Do you remember Los Angeles
burned down like a few months ago. You remember that
(38:20):
the wildfires going through Los Angeles and oh, it's going
to be years to get it cleaned up. Well, you
get somebody who's willing to kick ass and take names.
Guess what, twenty nine days later, all of the toxic
waste is all cleaned up because somebody said it could
be done. Because somebody decided I'm going to get the
(38:41):
job done. Everybody else is saying it can't do it, It
can't do it, can't do it. Twenty nine days is
all it really took. When everybody bends her back and
treats it seriously, the amount of unrealized potential in America
is it's astonishing. All we have to do is accept
the vision we can actually do it, instead of accepting
(39:03):
the gloom and doom of who can't do it? Can't
do it. Can't do it? Hell we we we we
won the Cold War? What do you mean we can't
do it?
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Since? When?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Right?
Speaker 3 (39:17):
I get it? I get it.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I bet you do. Well you're of a generation like me.
We get it.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah, I did the whole I alrighty thing. You know.
I wish I to put more in it, you know,
but well that's what I got. So I just want
to try to save it. I don't want to. Oh, Mike,
my kids defendedmentary and I don't want him to. It's
away half of it because.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Right, well, come to the music means I need to
get out of here. Mark, come to one of our
workshops and well tell you how it's done. Okay, love you,
Thanks for calling. All right, you have a wonderful day.
Spring forward, don't fall back at that's six months from now.
But keep on truck. Go to the website Davidcarrier Law
dot com. Love to see.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. A lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference. So when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show, or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(40:34):
visit Davidcarrier law dot com.
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carriers Show on David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Of course, we are springing forward today,
which means that I thought you were tuned in for
the first hour by actually it's the second hour. Aren't
you lucky? Aren't you lucky? Yes, you are. You missed
out on the first hour. We did a recap on
iras individual retirement accounts and the question is who should
(00:56):
be the beneficiary? Is number one. It's horrible to make
your kids beneficiary, especially of a traditional IRA. You waste
the opportunity and you expose the kids the needless liability.
Now it's not like the kids don't have to, you know,
participate in the needless liability, but you're setting them up
(01:18):
for a bad situation. And it got a question about that,
give us a shout back. But you can do that
easily six one, six, seven, seven, four, twenty four twenty four.
That's six one, six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
We did our first national webinar that was last week
(01:39):
on how to use AI, How AI is transforming and
state planning, How AI tools are really going to make
what we do a lot, a lot easier, a lot
more available. You know, we've may have thirty five years
and we've done tens of thousands of plans over the
(02:00):
over that period of time, So we got a lot
of plans out there, right, but most of it has
been sort of the brute force, you know, individual one
on one. You know, faithful listeners know that for the
last year or so, we've been moving towards a workshop model,
so that in order to deal one to many. We
(02:21):
still do a lot of one on one stuff obviously,
and that's appropriate in some cases, but there's an awful
lot of folks who can benefit from the lower cost
of doing the workshop model. If you're curious about the workshop,
just go to the website and speaking to AI, you know,
go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com and wait
(02:42):
about twenty seconds. I think they're having problems with the
Firefox browser, but that should be fixed. Wait about twenty
seconds and the AI assistant will pop up and it's
been trained on my stuff, so it should. It might
sound a little familiar supposed to. But we give you
(03:05):
some prompts there. You know, you can just click on
the things there and or you can add your own
details right and when you do. It's not a chatbot.
It's not gonna be one of those things that you
put all your information in. You know, you have to
put information in personal stuff. But if you if you
go there and you ask it a question. You know,
(03:26):
I'm married, three kids, you know, networth whatever, got a house,
my grandmo, my mother in law is in the nursing home.
What should we do? You know, and she's got whatever
something something like that. And it won't just say, oh,
give me your email address and we'll put you in
(03:46):
touch with one of our attorneys. I've been to all
these other chatbots. It's all they do. It's all they
do is is just like try to set you up
a phone appointment with somebody. And it's like the proms
AI was that it would give you some actual, useful,
helpful information. Now it's not an end result, and I
(04:10):
don't think it ever will be be because the AI
hallucinates if you've used it, If you've done that, Jack
Gpt or Rock or whoever, right, very quickly, it begins
hallucinating stuff. It makes stuff up. It's it's like there
have been lawyers. There are a lot of lawyers now,
(04:30):
or at least enough so they've made the news where
the lawyer asked the AI to write a brief, you know,
and they submitted the brief to court. Well, you read
the brief and oh, well this looks pretty good. Yeah,
it looks pretty good until you realize it's all bs.
(04:52):
The AI makes stuff up, makes up laws, makes up
cases based on the patterns that it's seen. Well, that's
not how it works, you know. It's not the computer
making up the law that it would like to have
to make the argument that you would like to make.
That isn't that isn't right. Okay, And then you know,
(05:14):
you know, you can say what you want about judges
and what have you. You know, they understand they can
tell when you know when the AI is hallucinating. So
you can't really we're not at a point right now
where you can really use the AI too. You can't
(05:34):
go to and say here's my situation, do me in
a state plant because it's likely to come up with
stuff that laws that don't really exist and say that
you can do things that you can't really do because
it's not reliable. On the other hand, what we've done
(05:55):
is we've really restricted what it can look at to
our stuff, the stuff that we've already done. In fact,
we're trying to figure out how to get the radio
shows on there, you know, to you know, hopefully get
some of the content that we've got here. We've got
the we've got the newspaper stuff is on there, and
you know, a bunch of a bunch of the other
stuff that we've done is on the is already in
(06:17):
the AI, right, so it's trained on that, but you
still have to be careful. I haven't seen it go
crazy yet, but you still have to be careful because
we're not really we're not using it to draft documents
per se, although there are something some places. We are
using it to help fill in forms and things like that.
(06:40):
The point is that, when it's done correctly with the
AI is a tool that lets each individual be more
effective doing what they're doing, meaning that instead of getting
a cookie cutter blah, blah blah like you get everywhere else,
you know, the usual thing. Instead, we can actually tailor
(07:03):
this to you very particularly and more importantly, make sure
that it actually works over time, so as your situation changes,
as the rules change. You know, we're already sitting there
not the weekly newsletter, and we're doing all the events
and stuff. Yeah, we're doing a lot to make that happen.
The question is is there way to do it more effectively,
(07:25):
more efficiently, you know, to keep the costs down. That's
the you know, that's really the issue. And so far
it's been it's been a really useful tool, but it's
it's a little bit scary because you've got to you
can see very easily how people would just say, oh,
(07:46):
let the AI do it. Oh my god, that's like no, no,
don't don't let just don't just let the AI do it.
If you let the AI do it, you'll get Well,
here's the thing. Over the years, we've gotten a lot
of people fill in the forms, you know, they got
the forms from somewhere, did the the computer stuff. And
(08:10):
there's two times when we see that one is here,
cauld you look at this, Did I do it correctly?
Which we don't. Really, we're not here to vet somebody
else's stuff, but we'll take a look at it just
to you know. It's like, I'm not here to correct
somebody else's work, okay, But when you go through it
and you say, well, did you really mean to do
(08:32):
it's like, oh, I didn't do that at all, and yeah, here,
here's where it is. You put the names in the
wrong place or whatever it may be. So so there's
that issue, and then the second, at least you can
fix the first one. The second is when somebody has
done one of these you know, follow this, you know,
put the CD in and enter the code, and well
(08:54):
is when you're actually trying to use it because the
person's not competent to anymore, or they've died, you know,
and now you're trying to make it, actually make it
work in it, and it's so clue g you can't
make it. You can't. You can see what they were
trying to do, but it doesn't really work to do it.
(09:15):
So it's a lot more work than if they just
hadn't done anything at all, and obviously much more work
than if they had done it correctly. So the computers
are helpful. Computers are useful. We love them. You know,
I've been programming since I was in high school. I
started off with fourtran and you know, one of these, uh,
(09:37):
one of the two second generation languages. You know, it
wasn't machine code, but it was second generation. Anyway. The
point is that do we like AI. We like AI, yes,
but we don't let AI have the run of the house. Okay,
we package up AI. We put it over there in
the corner where it can do the most good. Right,
(09:57):
and maybe we'll and we're experimenting, maybe do a few
more things with it. Okay, but what you cannot do
and it's very useful, you know, for you to go there.
So go to the website Davidcarrier law dot com. All right,
let the thing pop up, ask you some questions, see
what you you know. I'd be very interested in in
some feedback on that. You know, we've tested it obviously,
(10:20):
but you know what do you what do you think?
And let people on the radio know what you know?
Is it? Is it useful? The idea was to get
to get some basic stuff out there, some basic information.
It's not a replacement for a plan, but should be
very helpful. Moving in that direction, you're listening to the
David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
(10:52):
Bob Bob.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven seven twenty four, twenty four.
This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. We've got Bob on the line.
Good morning, Bob. Welcome to the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (11:33):
Good morning David.
Speaker 4 (11:35):
I love your show, listen all the time. My wife
and I are actually clients, and we're about two three
years in on our five year look back. But my
question is I have elderly parents, and I know for
a fact that they have a trust. But my father's
(11:57):
developed some pretty serious health issues with his heart, and
also he's developed Parkinson's and he's requiring a whole lot
of my mother to care for, to the point that
I feel like assisted living might be in the not
too distant future. He says, there's no way in heck
(12:19):
he's going into assisted living, but my mother's being ragged,
and I'm wondering if he changes his mind, are they
going to lose everything they have because in their trust,
I don't know that they're protected or their assets, if
you will, are protected like my wife's and.
Speaker 3 (12:39):
I are, right.
Speaker 2 (12:42):
So do you do we have an idea of mom
and Dad's net worth or are they very private about
that as well?
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Do you have anything they're with me?
Speaker 4 (12:51):
And so they have a paidoff condo value approximately three
point fifty maybe let's say a hunt you're ad it
one hundred thousand in the bank and as far as
they know, and a paid off car as far as
I know that, that's the extent of the network.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Okay, good news. So here's the thing. First of all.
First of all, what we would do is look to
see if they have a revocable trust, which is probably
what they've got, right, because that's what people do, and
they probably did a Ladybird deed, a transfer on death
deed to the to the trust. That's a bad idea,
(13:29):
especially in your folks situation. That's a fifty thousand dollars mistake,
at least for them. Here's why. If we applied for
medicaid right now, Medicaid would say, well what do you got?
Mom and Dad say, well, we got a car. We
don't care about the car. What else you got, Well,
we got a house with a ladybird deed on it.
They say, ah, we don't care about that either. What
(13:51):
else you got they say, well, we got one hundred
thousand dollars? They say, who now we care. I'll tell
you what. Come back and see us when you've got
fifty thousand dollars, right, and then Dad can get the medicaid.
So now you gotta bear with me on this because
this is this is absolute fruit loop material. Okay, what
we're gonna do is we're gonna put the house, the
(14:12):
condo in the trust. Now their trust, our trust, whatever trust.
But it goes in a revocable trust, which everyone tells
you is terrible. Oh, don't do that. It makes the trust.
It makes the condo count like it's cash. Okay, when
you put the homestead in a revocable living trust, now
(14:33):
the homestead counts as if it was cash. You say, oh,
that's terrible, and I say, no, it's not terrible. That's
actually a good thing because mom and Dad get to
keep or mom gets to keep half of the family
countable assets up to a maximum of about one hundred
and sixty thousand maximums one hundred and sixty that she
(14:55):
can keep, but she gets to keep half up to
that maximum. Okay, well, right now they've got one hundred thousand,
so she gets to keep fifty. But if I put
that house the condo in the trust, now they don't
have one hundred and fifty one hundred thousand of countable assets.
They've got four hundred and fifty thousand dollars with countable assets,
(15:17):
which means that Mom gets to keep one hundred and
sixty thousand dollars of cash. You say, yeah, but they
don't have one hundred and sixty thousand of cash. I say, yeah,
they don't have one hundred and sixty, but they got
one hundred. So now mom gets to max out. Mom
gets to keep all of their assets up to a maximum.
And so let's say our math is wrong. Let's say
(15:38):
it turns out they've got one hundred and fifty thousand. Great,
we just saved them from the seventy five thousand dollars mistake.
Are you with me on this now? You say, but
wait a second, Wait a second. So Mom gets to
keep all the cash, but now the house the condo
counts like it was money. Now I'm gotta sell the condo.
(15:58):
That's crazy. You're in idiot, Get off the air, leave
me alone. After Dad qualifies for the Medicaid, after we
pass what we call the snapshot date, we're going to
take the house out of the trust and put it
in mom's name. When we do that, it's homestead again,
(16:20):
it's homestead. It doesn't count. It's exempt. Okay, So we
want them to see it when we apply. But then
and we give them a copy of everything we do.
We're completely transparent upfront everything else. But when you do this,
Mom just saved fifty one hundred however much it was
(16:41):
one thousand dollars, which was going to make a difference. Okay,
So that's number one. That's the first thing we're going
to do, all right, is make sure that we keep
all of their life savings. We're not going to risk
any of it. We're not risking the condo, We're not
risking any of the cash. Now, dag, Now, how much
income does that have a month?
Speaker 4 (17:01):
If I could ask, boy, I really don't know. I
know he is, say a GM pension and then social Security,
But what that amounts to a month, I truly do
not know.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
Okay, So here's so here's the deal on that. If
he has more than twenty nine hundred dollars a month
of income, he's not going to qualify for my favorite
program in the world, which is at home care, which
is PACE. Okay, he's not going to qualify for it.
But but he's got a GM pension. Guess what we
(17:38):
can do. Guess what We can go to circuit court
and we can say, hey, Judge, I would like to
move dad's GM pension from dad to mom. And the
judge says, gee, I'm very curious about why you would
want to do that, but I have no legal basis.
(18:00):
We're asking and we say, that's right, you don't. We
are a married couple. We're rearranging our assets. Okay, now
repeat after me. This is not a divorce. You gotta
say this is not a do say it again. This
is not a divorce.
Speaker 4 (18:19):
This is not a divorce.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
Come on, is this a divorce? Bob?
Speaker 4 (18:23):
Are we talking about divorced?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Amen? Brother? It is not a divorce. It's we're settling
up the assets, the income between mom and dad. Now
when Mom gets the pension, Dad only has his Social
Security he qualifies Mom is now secure right under whatever
the terms of the pension were as far as Dad
(18:47):
was getting it. Now she gets it. Okay, so we
got the The GM pension is now protected. Mom now
has all of their cash life savings, and the condo
is in her name. And now Dad qualifies next month
for Medicaid, qualifies for the program of all inclusive care program.
(19:11):
Are they in Kent County, Bob, if I could ask.
Speaker 3 (19:14):
Yes, yep.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Byron Center, Nah.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Perfect, So at forty fourth and Kalamazoo is the main
pace senior center. They've got procedure rooms. They've got thirty
five bathrooms and each one has a shower in it.
They've got a full compounding pharmacy down in the basement.
They've got a big area. They play bingo every day.
There's tables of guys lying to each other about their
(19:40):
war records and hunting and every other day thing. And
there's signs you know, how many miles to you know,
if you walk this far, you've gone to here, to mckinaw.
I mean, it's a wonderful place full of wonderful people
who are going through what your parents are going through.
But nobody's going to the nursing home, no one's going
to assisted living Okay, if you want to hang on,
(20:03):
I'm the music is about to start here, so just
hang on through the next one if you if you will,
and we'll recap for you.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
Okay, okay, thanks David, you.
Speaker 2 (20:12):
Bet you, Thanks Bob, Okay, John, you can start playing
(20:33):
I Love the PA.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
And the Way the Sunlight plays a partner.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
David's got the how too. You're looking for Just call
seven seven four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (20:53):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Give us a call. Oh why
don't you have six one six seven seven four twenty
four twenty four. At six one six seven seven four
twenty four twenty four, go to the website Davidcarrier Law
dot com. We've got our new AI, a personal assistant
(21:15):
up there. You can ask it questions. You can click
on the questions that are already there. Don't forget to
hit that little airplane paper airplane thing you need to
make it go. But it's it's not a chatbot that's
just going to ask for your email. It doesn't even
ask you for that. I mean, eventually, at some point
you can put it in if you want to, but
but it will give it a try. I mean, it
(21:37):
doesn't cost you anything. We're talking with Bob, who's worried
about mom and dad, especially Dad. They've got a condo
three point fifty more or less with one hundred thousand
dollars in savings. Dad's a GM retiree, which means he's
got significant pension income which probably together with his Social
(21:58):
Security is going to put him over the income limit
to benefit from the program of all inclusive care for
the elderly. The question is what do we do now
when mom and Dad are both crossed my heart and
hope to die. I ain't going to no nursing home.
And the answer is, I mean, have I got it
so far? Bob, I'm thinking right spot on, David Oki, dok.
(22:25):
So here's what we're going to do. They've already got
a trust almost guaranteed. See, here's the problem that you
keep getting into in this area. Okay. People hear things
and they repeat things, and that becomes the conventional wisdom
that becomes truth even if it isn't truth. And what
everybody knows is that putting the homestead into a trust
(22:50):
is a bad idea and the theory is that's a
bad idea because it makes the house count as if
it was cash. And you think that's a bad idea, Well,
and it might be. It might be, but it might
not be. And in Mom and Dad's case, it's not.
It's if they have one hundred thousand dollars, and I
(23:11):
bet you it's more close than one hundred and fifty,
just guessing. They get to keep half of that. Mom
gets to keep half of that, all right, In other words,
fifty thousand or seventy five thousand, whatever it is, Mom
gets to keep half. So you said, well, better nothing.
I agree with you. It is better than nothing. But
(23:31):
if I put the house into the put the condo
into the trust, if I actually date it in not
a ladybird d which is what everybody's doing, because everybody heard, oh,
lady birdy good for medicaid without thinking it through. You
gotta think this stuff through. When we put it in there.
It counts like cash. The condo. Does it counts like cash?
Does it count like cash? Yes, it counts like cash. Okay.
(23:53):
The benefit of that is when I Mom gets to
keep half of the cash, that means that I got
three hundred and fifty thousand of condo that counts like cash,
and one hundred thousand of real cash. So now I've
got four hundred and fifty thousand dollars of cash that
(24:13):
I have to deal with. Well, according to Medicaid, Mom
gets to keep half of that to a maximum of
one hundred and sixty. In other words, Mom gets to
keep all one hundred thousand. But I've still got this
condo now that counts like cash. No problem. I dd
it out of the trust into Mom's name. Now it
(24:35):
doesn't count at all. It just boof disappeared. Wait is it?
How could that work? That's totally bogus. That's ridiculous. I
agree with you. I didn't make the rules. I'm just
trying to figure out how Bob's mom and dad don't
go broke. Okay, so now the house, well aren't we all?
(25:00):
I mean, isn't that what we've been doing our whole lives?
Speaker 1 (25:03):
Right?
Speaker 3 (25:04):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Now mom gets to keep Mom gets to keep the condo,
she gets keep the one hundred thousand. But uh oh, Dad
still doesn't qualify for at home care because of that
GM pension. No problem. Now we go to circuit court
and it's not a divorce not a divorce, not a divorce.
It's the property settlement part, but it's not a divorce.
(25:27):
Mom and Dad are not getting divorced. No, And everybody
who says, oh, you're gonna get divorced, No, you don't.
It's stupid. Don't do it. But I do want to
move Mom's pension. Excuse me, move Dad's pension over to Mom.
And when I've done that, Dad now qualifies for five
days a week of people coming taking him over to
(25:50):
the old John Knox Church where all this stuff is
going on. All his meds are covered, all his durable
medical equipment is covered, all his procedures, everything's covered. It's
one hundred. That's why they say program of all inclusive.
All inclusive means all inclusive everything. Okay, you don't have
(26:11):
to pay for the supplement insurance anymore. You know you're
all good to go now. You might want to keep
it from Mom. I get that, the GM insurance, the
UAW insurance, you keep that for Mom. But for Dad,
now everything is everything's taken care of, everything's paid for.
Here's the other part of that. Dad doesn't want to
go to a residential care facility. And I do not
(26:33):
blame him at all. However, for about five percent of
PACE recipients about five percent. Nationally, ninety five percent of
people die at home. Good, That's what I'd rather do.
Mom would like to keep him at home, but she
can't handle it. Understood? Could mom handle it if she
(26:55):
was getting five days a week? The nice young men
come from PACE, help dad with personal hygiene, put him
in a bus. He spends the day up to five
days a week. Maybe it's one day a week, maybe
it's three, maybe it's none, maybe it's every other week.
Who knows. Work out the schedule that makes the sense
for you. Okay, but now Mom gets to go work
(27:18):
in the thrift shop. Mom gets to go shopping, Mom
gets to take a nap whatever, whatever it is this program?
Are you with me on this? I mean, how's that
going to help mom's health? You know, she doesn't have
to wrestle him in out of the bathtub anymore.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
See, and you already paid for it. You already paid
for it. And here's the other thing. What usually happens
in mom and dad's case. Two things happen. One, Mom
finally realizes that she can't keep Dad at home, and
over Dad's strenuous objection. He's going to a residential care facility,
which is thousands of dollars a month. There goes the money.
(27:57):
You know, a year later, the money's all gone. Is
I'm going to do? It's terrible and she feels guilty
about it.
Speaker 3 (28:02):
Right.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
The other alternative is mom kills herself keeping Dad out
of the nursing home, which means he's not moving to
a bob. They don't want that either. He'd rather go
to the nurse. Great Now we're in the nursing home.
So it's like, what if we didn't have to go
to the nursing home ever, not at all? What if
we could stay at home but recognize that mom needs
(28:25):
some help, right, she doesn't need the thousands and thousand
dollars a month of hired help. She can't afford it. Okay,
got it. But what if she already paid for it?
What if she and Dad already paid for it? And
guess what they did already pay for it. It's called pace.
So that's what I'm going to recommend in a situation
(28:48):
like this. You don't have to lose the pens because
this is what happens because people who don't know what
they're talking about. Will say, oh, Dad's got too much income. Boom,
he doesn't qualify. I say, dad's got too much income.
We're going to go to circuit court and we're going
to move that pension over to mom. So Mom and
Dad continue to receive the benefits of the thirty years
he put in, you know, sticking parts on cars, you know,
(29:11):
whatever was he was doing for GM. Okay, he's going
to continue that that what he has earned is going
to be honored, not not trashed. Do you see?
Speaker 3 (29:23):
So yep? Okay.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
So then there you go scheme of things to restructure
the trust they have or you know, probably cancel that
and rewrite. Would it be you know, approximately the same
cost as what my wife and I went through to
set up all of our stuff, or would it be
more possibly or how where does that fall?
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Yeah? Yeah, so it depends. I mean, we we'd want
to see how much how much income does he have
because if he's under the limit, then I don't even
have to go to court. That's a good thing, all right,
that's that's that's lovely. And then if all we have
to do is this trust, okay, then but you still
have to do a Medicaid application. You know, there's there's
(30:07):
stuff that needs to be done. You can do it yourself,
we can do it for you. You know, it's up
to it's up to you. But you know how we operate.
I mean, we quote fees or we tell you I
can't quote a fee. You know, we really do try
to quote the fee so you know, going in and
then once we quote a fee, we just stick with it,
you know, even if it's even if we recredit. That's
(30:31):
how it goes. Thank you about for Colin. I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (30:36):
Great.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
Thank you. Take care.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Now.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Yep, you've been listening to the David Carrier Show on
David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (31:02):
David's working and working and taking your calls. Now this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (31:10):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. We've got Mark
from Kentwood on the line in just a couple of minutes.
So Mark fire away.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Well, I was wondering talking about, oh if I could
put my kid as a co owner of my IRA to.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
Avoid You can't, No, you can't. You're you can name
beneficiaries on your IRA, but not co owners.
Speaker 3 (31:49):
Oh so when.
Speaker 2 (31:52):
You pass Yeah, it'll be too easy. Huh no, you
you yeah, you you you know. In fact, lots of
times we get married couple and they're like, well, we
have a joint IRA, and I'm like, well, let's just
take a look at the at the paperwork, shall we,
(32:13):
because that would be the first one I've seen of those.
But you know, sometimes married couple think it's it's joint.
But what will happen is you'll be with a financial advisor,
for example, and the financial advisor will have an integrated
or a comprehensive, amalgamated whatever you want to say, statement,
(32:33):
and I'll have both names on it. But then when
you go through, what it does is that it brings
together all the various investments that they have. Some are
i RA, some are not i RA, some are insurance,
whatever it may be. So it all comes together on
the same statement. But you can't really not you know,
that's what the I and individual is for right individual retirement.
(32:57):
So but but like about how much you have in
the IRA, if you want to ballpark it.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
For me, Oh, one of them is one hundred forty thousands,
about one hundred forty thousand. Oh, the other one that
an annuity, But that that's coming up to about a
year and a half.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Okay, really, no, it's going to be paid out it's
good or it's going to be reaching.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
It's the end of its ten year cycle. Little I
haven't figured out what.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
Okay, right, so I just.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
What go ahead?
Speaker 2 (33:48):
No, I was just gonna say, our general rule of
thumb is if you've got more than one hundred thousand
in an IRA, then the the tax cost of not
planning for that, I mean, not being serious about planning
for that really gets out of really gets out of control.
(34:09):
I mean it's cost of That's what I'm saying. It's
cost effective. You know, once you get over one hundred
thousand traditional it makes sense, it really makes sense to
do something with it because you know, like I was
saying before, you'll have triple You have three times as
much in a IRA as you will in a conventional
(34:31):
or tax paid investment where you're paying the taxes on
a monthly basis. So you know, if it's done correctly
and you can keep the kid, which you can keep
the kid from cashing it in as soon as you
reach room temperature, then you know you can wind up
leaving really three times as much to the kid, you know,
(34:53):
So that's the that's the thing to be. You know
that that's what we're focusing on. I mean, number one,
of course, we got to preserve it for you, for
your ciut number one, it's always job one. But but
the amount of wasted money, the wasted opportunity, the amount
of money that the middle class is just thrown away
(35:15):
because there's no common sense about how anybody plans for
this stuff. It's it drives you crazy, which explains my situation.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
You know.
Speaker 2 (35:24):
That's why I'm in the rubber room here with the
you know, they stick a microphone under the door every
Sunday and that's that's my only therapy.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
It drives you nuts because there's just so much. Look,
you work too hard, you did too much right, and
then it all gets blown up because people aren't willing
to take fifteen minutes to think about what they're doing
and put in a put a plan in place that
requires a little bit of patience. You know. It's just
(35:57):
that that's why it's you know, and you know, I
get people tell me. I'll ask me that I've heard
it million times of questions, What the hell do I care?
You know, it's my kids, you know, let the kids
take care of it. And well I'm sympathetic to that,
but they're not gonna.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
All right. I had a friend years and years ago
that when this IRA stuff all started up, he wouldn't
do it. And I mean he was like the lone
person in the room. Everybody else thought it was a
(36:37):
great idea. He wouldn't do it. And I think I've
finally figured it out after half a lifetime. Why he
would he would do it. He didn't want to get
caught up and all that thing trap.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
Yeah, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Look look look look Mark, are you married?
Speaker 5 (37:05):
Oh? All right?
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Oh okay, But it's it's kind of like marriage, you
know what I mean. It's like, you know, yeah, it's
a pain in the ass compared to what, right, the
thing with the IRA isn't as good as you could
imagine it. No, is anything as good as you could
imagine it. No, but you know, it's like, you know,
(37:37):
what did they say? You know, it's something about uh
you know, uh uh you know marriage has pain, but
celibacy has no joy, you know what I mean? I
mean something you know, it's like in the fact of
the matter, is with a lot of these things if
(37:58):
you if you actually a little work into it, which
I get nobody wants to do. But if you put
a little bit of work into it, and that's what
we've been doing for thirty five years, it really you
can really do so much better than you thought was possible.
You know, it's like this. Do you remember Los Angeles
burned down like a few months ago. You remember that
(38:20):
the wildfires going through Los Angeles and oh, it's going
to be years to get it cleaned up. Well, you
get somebody who's willing to kick ass and take names.
Guess what, twenty nine days later, all of the toxic
waste is all cleaned up because somebody said it could
be done. Because somebody decided I'm going to get the
(38:41):
job done. Everybody else is saying it can't do it, It
can't do it, can't do it. Twenty nine days is
all it really took. When everybody bends her back and
treats it seriously, the amount of unrealized potential in America
is it's astonishing. All we have to do is accept
the vision we can actually do it, instead of accepting
(39:03):
the gloom and doom of who can't do it? Can't
do it. Can't do it? Hell we we we we
won the Cold War? What do you mean we can't
do it?
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Since? When?
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Right?
Speaker 3 (39:17):
I get it? I get it.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I bet you do. Well you're of a generation like me.
We get it.
Speaker 3 (39:25):
Yeah, I did the whole I alrighty thing. You know.
I wish I to put more in it, you know,
but well that's what I got. So I just want
to try to save it. I don't want to. Oh, Mike,
my kids defendedmentary and I don't want him to. It's
away half of it because.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
Right, well, come to the music means I need to
get out of here. Mark, come to one of our
workshops and well tell you how it's done. Okay, love you,
Thanks for calling. All right, you have a wonderful day.
Spring forward, don't fall back at that's six months from now.
But keep on truck. Go to the website Davidcarrier Law
dot com. Love to see.
Speaker 1 (40:12):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. A lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference. So when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show, or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(40:34):
visit Davidcarrier law dot com.
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