Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, your retirement law specialist. We say
retirement law because you see, here's the thing. You call
it elder law. Who wants to be older, but who
doesn't want to be retired? Everybody so, well most everybody
(00:42):
would like to do that on your own terms, right,
That's really what this is about. Retiring on your own terms,
not going broke, not making not giving up, right, entering
into a new phase of life.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
That's the that's the key.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So anyway, if you have a question, comment, or can
learn about wills, trust or probate. If you're wondering how
to beat the high cost of long term care, you
got a real estate question or a business law question,
now's the time.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Give us a call.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Six six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
That's six one six, seven, seven four, twenty four, twenty four.
We'll get your question, comment or concern.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
On the air.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We were, you know, the first hour, well he had
some technical difficulties, but once we overcame those with our
usual calmness and professional expertise, the you know, we had
a really good call there. And I just I want
to kind of revisit this a little bit because it
(01:44):
raises a lot of a lot of good points.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I think.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Lots of times when we're talking about this long term
care stuff, Okay, people are like, well, I'll take care
of my spouse. My spouse will take care of me.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Good enough.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Okay, fine, let's do that, and we would expect that
to happen. But why overlook the reality that there can
be some assistance that you've already paid for through your taxes.
There can be some assistance available to make it possible
for you to continue the care longer than you would
(02:21):
be able to do it on your own. And the
pace program, the waiver program, there's some other stuff that's
available to really help you out, help out the spouse,
caring for the spouse, caring for the spouse at home. Okay,
So there's there's ways to get help that that are
(02:42):
medicaid based, that are taxpayer based, and you're the taxpayer
pay and the taxes, so obviously you should not be
entitled any of that.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
One of the big problems is, so let's say spouses
care for each other at home. Good, no problem with that,
love it probably the way it ought to be. But
what you need to and don't do. What you need
to do and you don't do, is anticipate the death
(03:14):
of the caregiver's spouse. Okay, you say, well, caregiver, they're
the caregiver. They're not going to die. It's the other
one's going to die. Well maybe, and in fact usually,
but just barely. Usually it's it's forty to fifty percent
of the time it's the caregiver who dies first. Okay,
(03:36):
the caregiver dies first. What happens now to the to
the spouse, Well, what usually happens is because we qualified
him for medicaid. Remember where if you received help with
the medicaid, If you received help with the medicaid, or
if you didn't have any medicaid, you're just taking care
(03:57):
of business at home. This applies both cases. Right, Oh,
it's not that big a deal. I can handle it.
You know, I bring the garden hose in and hose
them down every once and no problem. Okay, fine, all right, fine,
keep it up. But when your spouse dies frequently, whoop
off to the nursing home we go. And now the
(04:20):
assets that have been being preserved, either through a medicaid
plan or just just saving your money, right, those assets
are now rapidly depleted, thrown out the window, snowflake on
a hot griddle. Okay because why because there was no
plan for what just happened. And people say, well, I'm
(04:43):
gonna outlive my spouse. Well, you know, good luck to you.
And here comes easter bunny hoping down the bunny trail.
You know who believes any of that. It doesn't work
like that. But it doesn't work either to do what
people routine attorneys routinely do. See, if you want to
ca for your child, Let's say you have a disabled child. Okay,
(05:03):
you have a disabled child, and your attorney says, who
I know how to save the money for the disabled child.
We will create a special needs trust or a supplemental
needs trust, or call it something else, but we're going
to create a trust for the benefit of that child.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And this.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Trust that you created for the benefit of your child
will be off limits to the Medicaid, off limits to
creditors and predators and everybody else. And that's right. And
you create it in the context of your living trust.
You did a trust to avoid probate. Okay, you got
the special needs kid. You build the trust for the
(05:46):
special needs kid into your estate plan, and that works.
That works okay for the disabled child, for your disabled mom,
for your cousin, for a friend, okay, it works for
(06:09):
everybody except your spouse. It does not work for your spouse.
If you create one of these trusts that works for
everybody else, it will count against your spouse as if
your spouse just had the money.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Why is that bad?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Because with you not around providing care twenty four seven
three sixty five, what's.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Going to happen to your spouse off to the nursing home.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Now they've if they were on the medicaid before, they're
not going to be on the medicaid now because you
either gave them all the money, which is what happened
with Dean's friend, or you created this trust inside your
trust right, which the attorney did for you, which they
shouldn't have done, but they did it anyway, right, They
created this trust, and now all that money counts against you,
(07:04):
and you're right back in the same position as if
you had done nothing.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
What you have to do, And now bear with me
because this is nonsense, but it's it's nonsense, but it's
not nonsense. It's the way you don't go broke. Okay,
if you have a spouse, and we do this with
elderly people, you know, with clients, you know, once you
get up in your eighties and nineties, Okay, the utilization
(07:31):
of skilled care, of long term care right of needing
what the NIH calls skilled nursing assistance right that goes
through the roof. The percentage is just huge. So even
if you don't need it now, we're anticipating that you
may very well need it in but I don't know
(07:52):
which one, Okay, So I don't know which one. So
what you do, what we do, what should be.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Done, in.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
My humble opinion, which should be done if you have
a spouse, right who's already receiving medicaid, If you have
a spouse who's got a disability and you're handling it,
if you're just getting up there, right, in those three cases.
This technique I'm going to tell you about is something
(08:23):
that should be consciously incorporated in your estate plan. When
a spouse creates a trust for the other spouse, and
that trust is established by will, established by will, then
(08:44):
the assets in that trust do not count, do not
count against that spouse after you have died. Okay, you
have to establish a trust for the benefit of your spouse.
You have to establish it in your will. It is
(09:07):
not enough to do what everybody does, which is to
think that the spouse is like a kid, or like
any other kind of beneficiary.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
They're not.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
They're different. They're so different that if your spouse does it,
they will be disqualified for medicaid until the money's all gone.
And the reason you put this trust into your revocable
living trust, the reason you did that was because the
attorney said, oh, you know, if you die first, this
will protect it for your spouse. No, it won't. It won't. Okay,
(09:41):
it won't. It'll count against them for the medicaid. Now,
if you're a Jeff Bezos gazillionaire, okay, who cares. I mean,
we're not talking about that. We're talking about regular folks, right,
normal people. Okay, So in order to protect the money
for your spouse, it has to go into a trust
(10:02):
that is created after your death by your will. Well
wait a second, you say, doesn't that mean we have
to go through probate. The answer is when we get back,
and of course, spoiler alert, we're not going to put
you through probate in any case. You've been listening to
the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
So call in now at seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Welcome back to the Mother's Day edition of the David
Carrier Show. So if you have a mother, or a mother,
knew a mother, wanted to be a mother, whatever, Now
it's all free for you to give us a call
at six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
That's sixty one six seven seven four twenty four to
twenty four.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Will get your.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Question, comment or concern on the air. Now here's the deal.
You know, what's the point of all this planning? You know,
old planning, planning, planning, What is the point of the
planning The point of the planning is number one, that
you live the life that you have earned. Okay, that
(11:17):
the money that you've built up for yourself, for your
spouse doesn't go bye bye because nobody was thinking about
how to hang on to it. Okay, you took your
Social Security, you're taking your medicare, right because why wouldn't you?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
You paid for it.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And the same is true for the long term care.
It's just that the rules are different for the long
term care. Do you have to jump through different hoops?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yes, you do. Right?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Do people think about it differently? Unfortunately?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
They do?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Okay, unfortunately incorrectly, I would say, right, in a way
that doesn't benefit them, doesn't benefit the family, and does
not honor the work that they have done to create
what you have in that program.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
They don't. That's reality.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Okay, Given that reality, given the fact that we have
thousands of families who haven't gone broke and tens of
thousands of families who have planned not to go broke
in long term care? All right, Uh, what's your problem?
I don't know, But here's the here's the key. Let's
(12:23):
say you haven't done any planning, all right, the way
the work, the way the Medicaid works is if you
receive money from your spouse except in one particular way,
then and you're on the Medicaid or might be on
the Medicaid, then you're going to be disqualified and you'll
(12:43):
have to spend it all down till you're broke, and
then once you're broke, then they'll they'll show up again.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Okay, so how.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Do we avoid that? And the answer is the answer
is you create one spouse creates a trust for the
other spouse, but not the way everybody's doing it.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It drives you absolutely when you see one of these
situations and the estate planner or whoever it was, stuck
a trust in a trust you know what I mean
for or you know they do, Oh, we'll just do
a trust for the wife, right, and if she happens
to die first, which is very rare, only forty fifty
(13:20):
percent of the time, but if she dies first, then
the assets will be protected for the other spouse. That's
what they tell you. It isn't true because the Medicaid
rules say that a trust created by one spouse for
the other spouse, right counts against the other spouse counts
against the other spouse. You said, but it's in a trust.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
It was my money.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
We applied for the medicaid. This was my protected spousal amount,
and I put that money into this trust for the
benefit of my spouse. It won't work unless that trust
is established by will. Okay, Now here's the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Okay, number one.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Number one, somebody's going to die first. That's going to
happen between spouses. But let's say we're not receiving any medicaid. No, no,
I don't want that medicaid. Okay, fine, But what if
I'm dead?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Then?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Would you want medicaid? Would you want some help? Well, okay,
it might then, but I don't want it now. Okay, fine,
that's fine. So what we do we call it the
double poreback. And what we do is, of course, you
want to do your trust so you avoid probate, save taxes,
get it to the kids. Yeah you want to do that. Okay, yes, fine,
that's your primary goal, which I think is a big mistake.
(14:37):
I think your own well being, your spouse's wellbeing, should
be your primary. But no, you want to do what
everybody's doing. Do it for the benefit of the kids. Wonderful,
Go ahead and do that fine, but let's not be
so blind to reality as to think that there's no
way we're ever going to need long term care. But
one of us might, especially if the other one dies,
(14:59):
because we're for each other or working together or staying
at home.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
But if one of us dies, which will happen? Right?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Remember the you know, uh, Cleopatra was not the only
empress of denial. All right, we don't want to I
don't want to do that denial thing. Okay, So one
of us is gonna die first, why not set up
your state plan so that at the first death all
of the assets go to a trust established by the
(15:28):
will of the one who died first. Why not, because
then even if you haven't done the least expensive, most
effective way, which is the plan ahead.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You haven't done that.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
You say that's not gonna have a house. I say, okay, okay,
but you know you still have air bags in your car. Well,
I'm a very safe driver. That's why I don't buckle
up and I and I ripped out those airbags because
because nothing bad'll.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Ever happen to me.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Okay, maybe, but this is planning ahead. Remember what Yogi
Berra said about predictions. They're tough because they're about the future.
That's the same with planning. Okay, you're planning for things. Well,
you know, National Institute hell says there's a seventy percent
chance when you're sixty five, seventy percent of sixty five
(16:19):
percent of people who are alive at that point, No,
seventy percent of people mixing up my numbers here, seventy
percent of the folks who are sixty five years old
of the people's sixty seventy percent will need long term care.
It's skilled nursing care for an average of three years,
twenty percent five years or more. Okay, that's on. I've
(16:41):
given you the sight before. It's long termcare dot gov.
Just look it up yourself. Don't believe me. But the
point is if you're because we got a lot of
spouses who are caring for each other, that's very good.
But when one's spouse dies, then what then the other
one's off to the nursing home because they can't care
for themselves. Right, Two can more effectively that you know,
(17:01):
they say two more puply than one or something like that. Anyway,
the point is that when your spouse is gone, you
should still do some sort of a plan to protect
your assets. So, like, if somebody comes into us and
they're seventies or eighties, one of the things we'll do
is a five year plan. Yes it's a five year plan,
(17:23):
but we also build into it and if one of
you dies in the meantime, the other one will be
immediately eligible for the long term care. We build that
into the plan.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So my point is that when you're when you've got
spouses caring for each other, there is something that's very
different when you want to provide for your spouse than
when you want to provide for your kids, or your
neighbor or your mom or somebody else. Okay, when you're
caring for your spouse is a very particular way it's
(17:57):
got to be done. And most of the time when
we see this, it either isn't done or it's done incorrectly.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So if you've got if you're in your sixty seventies, eighties, well,
seventies eighties, right when the need for skill care just
keeps ramping up, okay, I mean the people who actually
use it keeps going up, you need to be you
need to be thinking what happens if one of us
passes right, and the other one is not able to
(18:27):
live on their own. What is our plan at that time?
My suggestion is that you're going to need eventually long
term care, You're going to need the Medicaid to help
pay for that, and you do not have to give up.
You do not have to be disqualified from receiving benefits
right because of the way you planned it.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Even if you don't do the whole.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Least expensive, most effective five year plan that you could
have done, the fact that you laid some of the
groundwork in advance, we'll do it now. What if you
didn't do that and your spouse dies, and now we're
in the situation where you need long term care but
you didn't plan ahead. Not the time to give up,
not the time to spend down till you have zero effectively. Okay,
(19:16):
now's the time right to face the fact and protect
what you still can. And for most single people, we're
still able to protect married people we can save one
hundred percent. If you didn't save one hundred percent for
your spouse, it's because you chose not to. You made
a choice to ignore this and not to provide for
(19:37):
your spouse. If you're a single person, we can still
save half or you can go broke.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
It's up completely up to you.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
David's got the how too you're looking for. Just call
seven seven twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Back to the David Carriers Show. I'm David Carrier, your
family's personal attorney. This course is the Mother's Day edition
of the David Carrier Show, which means that we're going
to charge double from others. Yep, two times zero still zero.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Show there you are.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I'll just reading an article in the Harvard Business Review.
I know, Harvard, you know what a not much credibility there,
I agree, but it was kind of interesting. I thought
it was about the small actions that become your legacy. Okay,
and of course being Harvard, it's wrong. But here's what
(20:39):
they say, how do you want to be remembered? For
senior leaders and those aspiring to the c suite whatever?
This important reminder was natural to focus on big goals
and results. I don't even know why it would be
senior anyway, there it is. It is the quieter choices
that leave a deeper imprint kind of true. To shape
(20:59):
that kind of legacy, begin by asking yourself, what do
I want to be known for? What do you want
to be known for? In your family, how do you
want them to remember you self? Reflection goes along way,
bringing clarity, self awareness, and intention to the everyday choices
that help shape legacy. Next acts, ask yourself, how do
others see me? Invite feedback from a few trusted friends
(21:24):
and relations who see you in different contexts, and keep
an open mind when you receive feedback. Okay, you know
most of the people lie to you about you, right?
They think that when you ask how do you see me? Well,
your combination of Aquaman and Superman?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I mean it's like you don't get a you don't
get this straight story. So very important if you actually
want to find out how people feel about you, right'
It's it's difficult. Make an anonymous I guess would be
the best bet. Invite feedback blah blah. Finally, begin translating
insight into intentional action about bridging gaps between the leader
(22:05):
you want to be known as how others experience you.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Now here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I thought it was kind of interesting though, because so
often the way people live their lives is with a
what do you want to say? Focus, a dedication to
certain values, and you actually live your life that way.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
You live your life for your.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Family, for yourself, for your spouse, for your family, right,
and the intention is to an intention typically is to
leave a good impression. Maybe that's man. It's a way
to say it, to have your life be an object
lesson to some extent, Right, this is what happens, you know,
(22:53):
if you want to know what happens when you do
things faithfully consistently to the extent human beings are consistent,
which is not much, but to the extent that you
can do that. You know, here's how I want to
be remembered. I did these things to achieve this result, okay.
(23:15):
And so often what we see are people who have
done that. They have lived a life of faithfulness, a
life of consistency, a life of you don't want to
say self sacrifice exactly, but something like that, you know
what I mean, where they were not the only focus. Yeah,
(23:35):
there are toxic people out there. And you know, why
is it that the toxic people get all the press?
I don't get it, but they do you know it's
like I think it was.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Anton Chekhoff, the Russian playwright, said that, you know, somebody
was ragging on them. It's like, well, why do you
always run it write about unhappy families?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Why is it always you know, why is it always
gloom and doom? Why is it always on people that
you're write about? And his response was that and I
think this is why we focus on in the news anyway.
And the unhappiness is because what he said was all
happy families are happy in the same way. It's unhappy families.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
That are different. So interesting, I guess.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So we focus on the people who do things poorly
as opposed to the people who do things well.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And and this is really important.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And as a consequence of that, the consequence of focusing
on the negative that if your story is has got
negative aspects of it, especially at the end, then the
whole story becomes a negative instead of being a positive,
(24:49):
it's negative. Okay, that's the That's what I'm saying. And here,
you know, the small actions that become your legacy. I'm
going to suggest that it's not a long history of
the good things that you have done. All right, The
look most of us live our lives not in broad strokes,
(25:12):
but in small ones. Okay, it's the little things that
you do, whether it's picking up a scrap of paper
or you know, helping someone out when they're down in
a small way, sharing your lunch, you know, a word
of encouragement. It's those little things, right, and those should
(25:32):
be the things that Those are the things, as a
matter of fact, that define us, that define who we are.
But they're not the things that people remember unless unless right,
we make it possible for those to be the things.
Because here's what I'm saying. So often we see people
(25:54):
who have lived lives that are very admirable, all right,
if you examine what they actually did and all the
rest of it just amazing stuff. But because they fumble
the ball on the one yard line, because the way
that they made their exit right, whether it was nursing
(26:19):
home poverty or you know, couldn't do what you wanted
to do, or things got messed up at the end,
whether it's going through probate or long term care or
something like that. You know, it's not the whole record
that gets considered. It's not fair. I'm not saying this
is fair. I'm just saying, there's a rule called it's
(26:40):
called primacy and recency, and it's what do people.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Remember about you?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
They remember the first thing and they remember the last thing,
and everything in between tends to get forgotten. So you're
likely to be remembered for some of the big things
you did early on, right, and for how you left
the world, how you exited the stage. That's how you
(27:07):
get remembered. And this is that's one of the Now
the Harvard Business Review proves it, and the Harvard freaking Harvard,
I mean, who believes them anyway, But there is an
element here that I think is is true that it
is little things that you've built up over your lifetime.
(27:28):
Provided that provided that the recency thing, the end of
the thing, the end of your life, doesn't contradict everything
else that went before. If it is consistent with everything
that went before, then it solidifies everything that you did before.
So when my dad made his exit, okay, just a
(27:51):
few years ago, at ninety six, he was he was
in the woodworkshop the week before he died. Okay, he
was doing things. He left no mess, all right. Everybody
knew what he wanted. Everybody agreed, and he was consistent
(28:13):
about it right to the end, and it went very
very smoothly.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So it wasn't a situation where people are like, oh,
why did you do this? You know, I left this
with this difficulty or what have you. Okay, there was
some of that, very very little, and so the consistent
memory is one of competence, concern for the family, doing
(28:40):
the right, all that kind of thing. And we are
we share stories about when dad did this thing that
was consistent or that thing that you know was consistent
with what with the way he had lived his life,
the vast body, what we of what he had done.
What we see so often is, you know, people are
(29:03):
kind of bitter because things didn't work out at the end,
and now everyone's scrambling around trying to figure it out,
and they remember the person and you listen to this
stuff and it's like, there's no way that they were inconsiderate.
There's no way that they screwed everything up right. But
you hear that because of the last act, because of
(29:24):
the last thing that you knew was negative, then everything
gets reinterpreted. So that's your wisdom from the Harvard Business Review.
Take it for what it's worth.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Its Harvard.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
They've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now, this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Wellcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Here's something you can do for
Mother's Day. You can go to our website, David Carrier Law.
That's David Carrier Law dot com and sign up for
a free three secrets workshop. I mean, all the stuff
that we've been talking about here, you know, how do
we preserve one spouse for the other and all the
(30:12):
rest of it. This is all, you know, routine, routine
in the sense that we always plan for this stuff.
It's routine in that you don't know if it's going
to happen to you.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
See.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
One of the things people will do sometimes is look
at the documents that we you know, the plan that
we've put together, the initial plan. And remember this is
not about documents so much as it is about accomplishing
your goals. That's what the state planning is about. It's
not about, oh, I bought a trust, I bought a
(30:47):
power of attorney. I now have a binder with all
the stuff in it. I'm good to go. It's not
like that. It is true that we use paper and binders, right,
documents to express what it is that you want to
have happen to govern your interaction and your family's interaction
(31:08):
with the legal system. That's true the government, that's true.
I mean, we do use documents to make that. But
the documents are not The documents are not the plan.
It's the same way like, are you your body?
Speaker 3 (31:27):
All right? Is your body you?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Well, that's the physical part of you, right, There wouldn't
be a you without the physical part. So I'm kind
of stretching here, but but not that much, not that much. Right,
You're not Hamburger. Well, or maybe you are. Maybe you
think so, I don't think so. You are a life,
(31:49):
You are a person. You are so much more than
the physical space that you occupy. You're so much more
than a whole series of metabolic processes. All right, You're
more than that your person, Okay, goals, dreams, hopes, aspirations,
all kinds of stuff. And so are other people. Right,
(32:10):
We're all something more than.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Our component parts.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
The problem that I have I see sometimes is when
people think of a plan, they think of it as
if it's just the component parts, as if it's just well,
I have this, I have to that, I have the
other thing. I have kidneys, I have a liver, I
have lungs. I must be a human being. It's like, no,
that's the price of admission. That's just the beginning, that's
(32:37):
the first step that's necessary. Okay, if you're going to
be a human being, you better have a liver and
kidneys and stuff like that, at least one in my case. Right,
you better have that stuff. You're gonna need it, right,
But you are not. The sum total of your parts
(33:00):
are much more than that. And a plan is not
a bunch of documents, never is. A plan is an extension,
is an extension of yourself. A plan is the expression
and expression, not the only one, obviously, not the only one,
(33:20):
but the expression of hope's dreams, fears, concerns, love, all
the all the thoughts, all those sorts of things. That's
what your plan actually is. And all too often you
know it's well, I got one of these, I got
one of those, I got one of the other things.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Okay, I'm done. Done.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It's like, what what did you ever see that movie
Young Frankenstein. You know where I Gore brings back the
the brain, and you know, Jane Wilder's like, whose brain
is this abby?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Somebody abby? Normal? You know?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Oh no, put an abnormal brain anyway. The point is,
The point is you're more than the sum total of
your parts. It's not about stitching together a bunch of parts.
And then you say, well, I got this part in
that part and the other part. Therefore I have an
estate plan. It isn't like that at all, anymore than
you are a collection of body parts. Okay, you are
(34:21):
a person who has a body, not a body that
just sort of bumbles around and stuff. And all too
often the estate plan because because it looks like a thing,
it looks like a bunch of pages in a document.
And frankly, I think people are very poorly served usually
(34:44):
when it comes to.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
This stuff, because it's not easy. You know, it's not
easy planning for the future.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
You got to think about it, and you know where
just just remember where the future ends for each one
of us. It's not pleasant to think about that. It's tough, right,
I get it. I can't do anything about the fact
that there's going to be an end of the line.
There will be an end of the line. But what
I'm concerned about is number one, what happens to you
(35:12):
before you get there, and your spouse and your loved ones.
What happens before you reach the end of the line.
And then and this is very important, It seems like
to me very important, because you may have reached the
end of the line, but the people that you love
and care for have not. They haven't reached the end
of the line.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
How are you going?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
How are they going to look back, you know, at
that last station and say, japers, that was a life
well lived, that was good, that worked out. You know,
how are they going to remember you? Because they will
remember you somehow, And most of the time it's the
most recent, the most recent, the last thing that happens
(35:55):
is the thing that that acquires mythic proportions. Okay, there's
somebody who said nothing became his life so well as
his way of ending it. Well, there's some truth in that. Okay,
not the whole story, but it is an important part.
And it will be the lens through which it be
(36:16):
the lasting people experience of you. And it will be
the lens through which they look back and interpret everything else,
everything else that you did. Maybe that's irrelevant to you.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
God bless you.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Okay, fine, don't care that that. Okay, who am I
to argue? I would still say how we get to
the end of the line is important. But I also
think that it is important, you know, for most of
us with relationships, who live in a family, who live
in a society, a community. You know, it should be
(36:50):
And I'll say it should be because it seems important
to me. It should be important that your life stand
for something, that you mean, something, that you have a
message that is effectively communicated and is not stepped on
by the last bits if if it's a off the show,
well I got these documents. Well the documents don't work
(37:12):
because they don't embody you. They don't embody what you wanted,
who you are, and all the rest of it's just yeah, yeah, yeah,
I just got it done. I got it done because
I had to get it done. Okay, it's not like that.
You know, you don't serve Big Max at Thanksgiving? You know,
it's as simple as that. I think you've been listening
to the David Carrier Show, and then this is why
we this is why we do the workshops that we do.
(37:35):
This is why education ours. Yeah, it's hours and hours,
but it's.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Fun any.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
There's cookies anyway, you know what I mean. We really
do put a lot of effort into making sure that
people understand what's going on. That's why we do the
group setting. That's why we do it, not one on.
When we're not pounding on you, we're in a classroom situation.
You'll hear different people's perspectives on it. You'll get a
(38:03):
little bit of insight perhaps from the way that other
people have done and other people are thinking about doing it.
And the start to the whole thing is the Three
Secrets Workshop. Go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com.
Come to a three Secrets workshop.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
See what you think.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. A lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference. So when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(39:09):
visit Davidcarrier law dot com.
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, your retirement law specialist. We say
retirement law because you see, here's the thing. You call
it elder law. Who wants to be older, but who
doesn't want to be retired? Everybody so, well most everybody
(00:42):
would like to do that on your own terms, right,
That's really what this is about. Retiring on your own terms,
not going broke, not making not giving up, right, entering
into a new phase of life.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
That's the that's the key.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
So anyway, if you have a question, comment, or can
learn about wills, trust or probate. If you're wondering how
to beat the high cost of long term care, you
got a real estate question or a business law question,
now's the time.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Give us a call.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Six six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
That's six one six, seven, seven four, twenty four, twenty four.
We'll get your question, comment or concern.
Speaker 3 (01:22):
On the air.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
We were, you know, the first hour, well he had
some technical difficulties, but once we overcame those with our
usual calmness and professional expertise, the you know, we had
a really good call there. And I just I want
to kind of revisit this a little bit because it
(01:44):
raises a lot of a lot of good points.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
I think.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Lots of times when we're talking about this long term
care stuff, Okay, people are like, well, I'll take care
of my spouse. My spouse will take care of me.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Good enough.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
Okay, fine, let's do that, and we would expect that
to happen. But why overlook the reality that there can
be some assistance that you've already paid for through your taxes.
There can be some assistance available to make it possible
for you to continue the care longer than you would
(02:21):
be able to do it on your own. And the
pace program, the waiver program, there's some other stuff that's
available to really help you out, help out the spouse,
caring for the spouse, caring for the spouse at home. Okay,
So there's there's ways to get help that that are
(02:42):
medicaid based, that are taxpayer based, and you're the taxpayer
pay and the taxes, so obviously you should not be
entitled any of that.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Anyway.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
One of the big problems is, so let's say spouses
care for each other at home. Good, no problem with that,
love it probably the way it ought to be. But
what you need to and don't do. What you need
to do and you don't do, is anticipate the death
(03:14):
of the caregiver's spouse. Okay, you say, well, caregiver, they're
the caregiver. They're not going to die. It's the other
one's going to die. Well maybe, and in fact usually,
but just barely. Usually it's it's forty to fifty percent
of the time it's the caregiver who dies first. Okay,
(03:36):
the caregiver dies first. What happens now to the to
the spouse, Well, what usually happens is because we qualified
him for medicaid. Remember where if you received help with
the medicaid, If you received help with the medicaid, or
if you didn't have any medicaid, you're just taking care
(03:57):
of business at home. This applies both cases. Right, Oh,
it's not that big a deal. I can handle it.
You know, I bring the garden hose in and hose
them down every once and no problem. Okay, fine, all right, fine,
keep it up. But when your spouse dies frequently, whoop
off to the nursing home we go. And now the
(04:20):
assets that have been being preserved, either through a medicaid
plan or just just saving your money, right, those assets
are now rapidly depleted, thrown out the window, snowflake on
a hot griddle. Okay because why because there was no
plan for what just happened. And people say, well, I'm
(04:43):
gonna outlive my spouse. Well, you know, good luck to you.
And here comes easter bunny hoping down the bunny trail.
You know who believes any of that. It doesn't work
like that. But it doesn't work either to do what
people routine attorneys routinely do. See, if you want to
ca for your child, Let's say you have a disabled child. Okay,
(05:03):
you have a disabled child, and your attorney says, who
I know how to save the money for the disabled child.
We will create a special needs trust or a supplemental
needs trust, or call it something else, but we're going
to create a trust for the benefit of that child.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
And this.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Trust that you created for the benefit of your child
will be off limits to the Medicaid, off limits to
creditors and predators and everybody else. And that's right. And
you create it in the context of your living trust.
You did a trust to avoid probate. Okay, you got
the special needs kid. You build the trust for the
(05:46):
special needs kid into your estate plan, and that works.
That works okay for the disabled child, for your disabled mom,
for your cousin, for a friend, okay, it works for
(06:09):
everybody except your spouse. It does not work for your spouse.
If you create one of these trusts that works for
everybody else, it will count against your spouse as if
your spouse just had the money.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Why is that bad?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Because with you not around providing care twenty four seven
three sixty five, what's.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Going to happen to your spouse off to the nursing home.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Now they've if they were on the medicaid before, they're
not going to be on the medicaid now because you
either gave them all the money, which is what happened
with Dean's friend, or you created this trust inside your
trust right, which the attorney did for you, which they
shouldn't have done, but they did it anyway, right, They
created this trust, and now all that money counts against you,
(07:04):
and you're right back in the same position as if
you had done nothing.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
What you have to do, And now bear with me
because this is nonsense, but it's it's nonsense, but it's
not nonsense. It's the way you don't go broke. Okay,
if you have a spouse, and we do this with
elderly people, you know, with clients, you know, once you
get up in your eighties and nineties, Okay, the utilization
(07:31):
of skilled care, of long term care right of needing
what the NIH calls skilled nursing assistance right that goes
through the roof. The percentage is just huge. So even
if you don't need it now, we're anticipating that you
may very well need it in but I don't know
(07:52):
which one, Okay, So I don't know which one. So
what you do, what we do, what should be.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Done, in.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
My humble opinion, which should be done if you have
a spouse, right who's already receiving medicaid, If you have
a spouse who's got a disability and you're handling it,
if you're just getting up there, right, in those three cases.
This technique I'm going to tell you about is something
(08:23):
that should be consciously incorporated in your estate plan. When
a spouse creates a trust for the other spouse, and
that trust is established by will, established by will, then
(08:44):
the assets in that trust do not count, do not
count against that spouse after you have died. Okay, you
have to establish a trust for the benefit of your spouse.
You have to establish it in your will. It is
(09:07):
not enough to do what everybody does, which is to
think that the spouse is like a kid, or like
any other kind of beneficiary.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
They're not.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
They're different. They're so different that if your spouse does it,
they will be disqualified for medicaid until the money's all gone.
And the reason you put this trust into your revocable
living trust, the reason you did that was because the
attorney said, oh, you know, if you die first, this
will protect it for your spouse. No, it won't. It won't. Okay,
(09:41):
it won't. It'll count against them for the medicaid. Now,
if you're a Jeff Bezos gazillionaire, okay, who cares. I mean,
we're not talking about that. We're talking about regular folks, right,
normal people. Okay, So in order to protect the money
for your spouse, it has to go into a trust
(10:02):
that is created after your death by your will. Well
wait a second, you say, doesn't that mean we have
to go through probate. The answer is when we get back,
and of course, spoiler alert, we're not going to put
you through probate in any case. You've been listening to
the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
So call in now at seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Welcome back to the Mother's Day edition of the David
Carrier Show. So if you have a mother, or a mother,
knew a mother, wanted to be a mother, whatever, Now
it's all free for you to give us a call
at six one six seven seven four twenty four twenty four.
That's sixty one six seven seven four twenty four to
twenty four.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Will get your.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
Question, comment or concern on the air. Now here's the deal.
You know, what's the point of all this planning? You know,
old planning, planning, planning, What is the point of the
planning The point of the planning is number one, that
you live the life that you have earned. Okay, that
(11:17):
the money that you've built up for yourself, for your
spouse doesn't go bye bye because nobody was thinking about
how to hang on to it. Okay, you took your
Social Security, you're taking your medicare, right because why wouldn't you?
Speaker 3 (11:32):
You paid for it.
Speaker 2 (11:34):
And the same is true for the long term care.
It's just that the rules are different for the long
term care. Do you have to jump through different hoops?
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yes, you do. Right?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Do people think about it differently? Unfortunately?
Speaker 3 (11:45):
They do?
Speaker 2 (11:46):
Okay, unfortunately incorrectly, I would say, right, in a way
that doesn't benefit them, doesn't benefit the family, and does
not honor the work that they have done to create
what you have in that program.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
They don't. That's reality.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Okay, Given that reality, given the fact that we have
thousands of families who haven't gone broke and tens of
thousands of families who have planned not to go broke
in long term care? All right, Uh, what's your problem?
I don't know, But here's the here's the key. Let's
(12:23):
say you haven't done any planning, all right, the way
the work, the way the Medicaid works is if you
receive money from your spouse except in one particular way,
then and you're on the Medicaid or might be on
the Medicaid, then you're going to be disqualified and you'll
(12:43):
have to spend it all down till you're broke, and
then once you're broke, then they'll they'll show up again.
Speaker 3 (12:48):
Okay, so how.
Speaker 2 (12:49):
Do we avoid that? And the answer is the answer
is you create one spouse creates a trust for the
other spouse, but not the way everybody's doing it.
Speaker 3 (13:00):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
It drives you absolutely when you see one of these
situations and the estate planner or whoever it was, stuck
a trust in a trust you know what I mean
for or you know they do, Oh, we'll just do
a trust for the wife, right, and if she happens
to die first, which is very rare, only forty fifty
(13:20):
percent of the time, but if she dies first, then
the assets will be protected for the other spouse. That's
what they tell you. It isn't true because the Medicaid
rules say that a trust created by one spouse for
the other spouse, right counts against the other spouse counts
against the other spouse. You said, but it's in a trust.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
It was my money.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
We applied for the medicaid. This was my protected spousal amount,
and I put that money into this trust for the
benefit of my spouse. It won't work unless that trust
is established by will. Okay, Now here's the opportunity.
Speaker 3 (14:02):
Okay, number one.
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Number one, somebody's going to die first. That's going to
happen between spouses. But let's say we're not receiving any medicaid. No, no,
I don't want that medicaid. Okay, fine, But what if
I'm dead?
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Then?
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Would you want medicaid? Would you want some help? Well, okay,
it might then, but I don't want it now. Okay, fine,
that's fine. So what we do we call it the
double poreback. And what we do is, of course, you
want to do your trust so you avoid probate, save taxes,
get it to the kids. Yeah you want to do that. Okay, yes, fine,
that's your primary goal, which I think is a big mistake.
(14:37):
I think your own well being, your spouse's wellbeing, should
be your primary. But no, you want to do what
everybody's doing. Do it for the benefit of the kids. Wonderful,
Go ahead and do that fine, but let's not be
so blind to reality as to think that there's no
way we're ever going to need long term care. But
one of us might, especially if the other one dies,
(14:59):
because we're for each other or working together or staying
at home.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
But if one of us dies, which will happen? Right?
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Remember the you know, uh, Cleopatra was not the only
empress of denial. All right, we don't want to I
don't want to do that denial thing. Okay, So one
of us is gonna die first, why not set up
your state plan so that at the first death all
of the assets go to a trust established by the
(15:28):
will of the one who died first. Why not, because
then even if you haven't done the least expensive, most
effective way, which is the plan ahead.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
You haven't done that.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
You say that's not gonna have a house. I say, okay, okay,
but you know you still have air bags in your car. Well,
I'm a very safe driver. That's why I don't buckle
up and I and I ripped out those airbags because
because nothing bad'll.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
Ever happen to me.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Okay, maybe, but this is planning ahead. Remember what Yogi
Berra said about predictions. They're tough because they're about the future.
That's the same with planning. Okay, you're planning for things. Well,
you know, National Institute hell says there's a seventy percent
chance when you're sixty five, seventy percent of sixty five
(16:19):
percent of people who are alive at that point, No,
seventy percent of people mixing up my numbers here, seventy
percent of the folks who are sixty five years old
of the people's sixty seventy percent will need long term care.
It's skilled nursing care for an average of three years,
twenty percent five years or more. Okay, that's on. I've
(16:41):
given you the sight before. It's long termcare dot gov.
Just look it up yourself. Don't believe me. But the
point is if you're because we got a lot of
spouses who are caring for each other, that's very good.
But when one's spouse dies, then what then the other
one's off to the nursing home because they can't care
for themselves. Right, Two can more effectively that you know,
(17:01):
they say two more puply than one or something like that. Anyway,
the point is that when your spouse is gone, you
should still do some sort of a plan to protect
your assets. So, like, if somebody comes into us and
they're seventies or eighties, one of the things we'll do
is a five year plan. Yes it's a five year plan,
(17:23):
but we also build into it and if one of
you dies in the meantime, the other one will be
immediately eligible for the long term care. We build that
into the plan.
Speaker 3 (17:34):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So my point is that when you're when you've got
spouses caring for each other, there is something that's very
different when you want to provide for your spouse than
when you want to provide for your kids, or your
neighbor or your mom or somebody else. Okay, when you're
caring for your spouse is a very particular way it's
(17:57):
got to be done. And most of the time when
we see this, it either isn't done or it's done incorrectly.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
So if you've got if you're in your sixty seventies, eighties, well,
seventies eighties, right when the need for skill care just
keeps ramping up, okay, I mean the people who actually
use it keeps going up, you need to be you
need to be thinking what happens if one of us
passes right, and the other one is not able to
(18:27):
live on their own. What is our plan at that time?
My suggestion is that you're going to need eventually long
term care, You're going to need the Medicaid to help
pay for that, and you do not have to give up.
You do not have to be disqualified from receiving benefits
right because of the way you planned it.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Even if you don't do the whole.
Speaker 2 (18:52):
Least expensive, most effective five year plan that you could
have done, the fact that you laid some of the
groundwork in advance, we'll do it now. What if you
didn't do that and your spouse dies, and now we're
in the situation where you need long term care but
you didn't plan ahead. Not the time to give up,
not the time to spend down till you have zero effectively. Okay,
(19:16):
now's the time right to face the fact and protect
what you still can. And for most single people, we're
still able to protect married people we can save one
hundred percent. If you didn't save one hundred percent for
your spouse, it's because you chose not to. You made
a choice to ignore this and not to provide for
(19:37):
your spouse. If you're a single person, we can still
save half or you can go broke.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
It's up completely up to you.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
David's got the how too you're looking for. Just call
seven seven twenty four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Back to the David Carriers Show. I'm David Carrier, your
family's personal attorney. This course is the Mother's Day edition
of the David Carrier Show, which means that we're going
to charge double from others. Yep, two times zero still zero.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Show there you are.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
I'll just reading an article in the Harvard Business Review.
I know, Harvard, you know what a not much credibility there,
I agree, but it was kind of interesting. I thought
it was about the small actions that become your legacy. Okay,
and of course being Harvard, it's wrong. But here's what
(20:39):
they say, how do you want to be remembered? For
senior leaders and those aspiring to the c suite whatever?
This important reminder was natural to focus on big goals
and results. I don't even know why it would be
senior anyway, there it is. It is the quieter choices
that leave a deeper imprint kind of true. To shape
(20:59):
that kind of legacy, begin by asking yourself, what do
I want to be known for? What do you want
to be known for? In your family, how do you
want them to remember you self? Reflection goes along way,
bringing clarity, self awareness, and intention to the everyday choices
that help shape legacy. Next acts, ask yourself, how do
others see me? Invite feedback from a few trusted friends
(21:24):
and relations who see you in different contexts, and keep
an open mind when you receive feedback. Okay, you know
most of the people lie to you about you, right?
They think that when you ask how do you see me? Well,
your combination of Aquaman and Superman?
Speaker 3 (21:42):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (21:43):
I mean it's like you don't get a you don't
get this straight story. So very important if you actually
want to find out how people feel about you, right'
It's it's difficult. Make an anonymous I guess would be
the best bet. Invite feedback blah blah. Finally, begin translating
insight into intentional action about bridging gaps between the leader
(22:05):
you want to be known as how others experience you.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Now here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
I thought it was kind of interesting though, because so
often the way people live their lives is with a
what do you want to say? Focus, a dedication to
certain values, and you actually live your life that way.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
You live your life for your.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
Family, for yourself, for your spouse, for your family, right,
and the intention is to an intention typically is to
leave a good impression. Maybe that's man. It's a way
to say it, to have your life be an object
lesson to some extent, Right, this is what happens, you know,
(22:53):
if you want to know what happens when you do
things faithfully consistently to the extent human beings are consistent,
which is not much, but to the extent that you
can do that. You know, here's how I want to
be remembered. I did these things to achieve this result, okay.
(23:15):
And so often what we see are people who have
done that. They have lived a life of faithfulness, a
life of consistency, a life of you don't want to
say self sacrifice exactly, but something like that, you know
what I mean, where they were not the only focus. Yeah,
(23:35):
there are toxic people out there. And you know, why
is it that the toxic people get all the press?
I don't get it, but they do you know it's
like I think it was.
Speaker 1 (23:45):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
Anton Chekhoff, the Russian playwright, said that, you know, somebody
was ragging on them. It's like, well, why do you
always run it write about unhappy families?
Speaker 3 (23:55):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
Why is it always you know, why is it always
gloom and doom? Why is it always on people that
you're write about? And his response was that and I
think this is why we focus on in the news anyway.
And the unhappiness is because what he said was all
happy families are happy in the same way. It's unhappy families.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
That are different. So interesting, I guess.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
So we focus on the people who do things poorly
as opposed to the people who do things well.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
And and this is really important.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
And as a consequence of that, the consequence of focusing
on the negative that if your story is has got
negative aspects of it, especially at the end, then the
whole story becomes a negative instead of being a positive,
(24:49):
it's negative. Okay, that's the That's what I'm saying. And here,
you know, the small actions that become your legacy. I'm
going to suggest that it's not a long history of
the good things that you have done. All right, The
look most of us live our lives not in broad strokes,
(25:12):
but in small ones. Okay, it's the little things that
you do, whether it's picking up a scrap of paper
or you know, helping someone out when they're down in
a small way, sharing your lunch, you know, a word
of encouragement. It's those little things, right, and those should
(25:32):
be the things that Those are the things, as a
matter of fact, that define us, that define who we are.
But they're not the things that people remember unless unless right,
we make it possible for those to be the things.
Because here's what I'm saying. So often we see people
(25:54):
who have lived lives that are very admirable, all right,
if you examine what they actually did and all the
rest of it just amazing stuff. But because they fumble
the ball on the one yard line, because the way
that they made their exit right, whether it was nursing
(26:19):
home poverty or you know, couldn't do what you wanted
to do, or things got messed up at the end,
whether it's going through probate or long term care or
something like that. You know, it's not the whole record
that gets considered. It's not fair. I'm not saying this
is fair. I'm just saying, there's a rule called it's
(26:40):
called primacy and recency, and it's what do people.
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Remember about you?
Speaker 2 (26:45):
They remember the first thing and they remember the last thing,
and everything in between tends to get forgotten. So you're
likely to be remembered for some of the big things
you did early on, right, and for how you left
the world, how you exited the stage. That's how you
(27:07):
get remembered. And this is that's one of the Now
the Harvard Business Review proves it, and the Harvard freaking Harvard,
I mean, who believes them anyway, But there is an
element here that I think is is true that it
is little things that you've built up over your lifetime.
(27:28):
Provided that provided that the recency thing, the end of
the thing, the end of your life, doesn't contradict everything
else that went before. If it is consistent with everything
that went before, then it solidifies everything that you did before.
So when my dad made his exit, okay, just a
(27:51):
few years ago, at ninety six, he was he was
in the woodworkshop the week before he died. Okay, he
was doing things. He left no mess, all right. Everybody
knew what he wanted. Everybody agreed, and he was consistent
(28:13):
about it right to the end, and it went very
very smoothly.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (28:19):
So it wasn't a situation where people are like, oh,
why did you do this? You know, I left this
with this difficulty or what have you. Okay, there was
some of that, very very little, and so the consistent
memory is one of competence, concern for the family, doing
(28:40):
the right, all that kind of thing. And we are
we share stories about when dad did this thing that
was consistent or that thing that you know was consistent
with what with the way he had lived his life,
the vast body, what we of what he had done.
What we see so often is, you know, people are
(29:03):
kind of bitter because things didn't work out at the end,
and now everyone's scrambling around trying to figure it out,
and they remember the person and you listen to this
stuff and it's like, there's no way that they were inconsiderate.
There's no way that they screwed everything up right. But
you hear that because of the last act, because of
(29:24):
the last thing that you knew was negative, then everything
gets reinterpreted. So that's your wisdom from the Harvard Business Review.
Take it for what it's worth.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Its Harvard.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
They've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
David's perking and working and taking your calls. Now, this
is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Wellcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. Here's something you can do for
Mother's Day. You can go to our website, David Carrier Law.
That's David Carrier Law dot com and sign up for
a free three secrets workshop. I mean, all the stuff
that we've been talking about here, you know, how do
we preserve one spouse for the other and all the
(30:12):
rest of it. This is all, you know, routine, routine
in the sense that we always plan for this stuff.
It's routine in that you don't know if it's going
to happen to you.
Speaker 3 (30:25):
See.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
One of the things people will do sometimes is look
at the documents that we you know, the plan that
we've put together, the initial plan. And remember this is
not about documents so much as it is about accomplishing
your goals. That's what the state planning is about. It's
not about, oh, I bought a trust, I bought a
(30:47):
power of attorney. I now have a binder with all
the stuff in it. I'm good to go. It's not
like that. It is true that we use paper and binders, right,
documents to express what it is that you want to
have happen to govern your interaction and your family's interaction
(31:08):
with the legal system. That's true the government, that's true.
I mean, we do use documents to make that. But
the documents are not The documents are not the plan.
It's the same way like, are you your body?
Speaker 3 (31:27):
All right? Is your body you?
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Well, that's the physical part of you, right, There wouldn't
be a you without the physical part. So I'm kind
of stretching here, but but not that much, not that much. Right,
You're not Hamburger. Well, or maybe you are. Maybe you
think so, I don't think so. You are a life,
(31:49):
You are a person. You are so much more than
the physical space that you occupy. You're so much more
than a whole series of metabolic processes. All right, You're
more than that your person, Okay, goals, dreams, hopes, aspirations,
all kinds of stuff. And so are other people. Right,
(32:10):
We're all something more than.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Our component parts.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
The problem that I have I see sometimes is when
people think of a plan, they think of it as
if it's just the component parts, as if it's just well,
I have this, I have to that, I have the
other thing. I have kidneys, I have a liver, I
have lungs. I must be a human being. It's like, no,
that's the price of admission. That's just the beginning, that's
(32:37):
the first step that's necessary. Okay, if you're going to
be a human being, you better have a liver and
kidneys and stuff like that, at least one in my case. Right,
you better have that stuff. You're gonna need it, right,
But you are not. The sum total of your parts
(33:00):
are much more than that. And a plan is not
a bunch of documents, never is. A plan is an extension,
is an extension of yourself. A plan is the expression
and expression, not the only one, obviously, not the only one,
(33:20):
but the expression of hope's dreams, fears, concerns, love, all
the all the thoughts, all those sorts of things. That's
what your plan actually is. And all too often you
know it's well, I got one of these, I got
one of those, I got one of the other things.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Okay, I'm done. Done.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
It's like, what what did you ever see that movie
Young Frankenstein. You know where I Gore brings back the
the brain, and you know, Jane Wilder's like, whose brain
is this abby?
Speaker 3 (33:55):
Somebody abby? Normal? You know?
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Oh no, put an abnormal brain anyway. The point is,
The point is you're more than the sum total of
your parts. It's not about stitching together a bunch of parts.
And then you say, well, I got this part in
that part and the other part. Therefore I have an
estate plan. It isn't like that at all, anymore than
you are a collection of body parts. Okay, you are
(34:21):
a person who has a body, not a body that
just sort of bumbles around and stuff. And all too
often the estate plan because because it looks like a thing,
it looks like a bunch of pages in a document.
And frankly, I think people are very poorly served usually
(34:44):
when it comes to.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
This stuff, because it's not easy. You know, it's not
easy planning for the future.
Speaker 2 (34:49):
You got to think about it, and you know where
just just remember where the future ends for each one
of us. It's not pleasant to think about that. It's tough, right,
I get it. I can't do anything about the fact
that there's going to be an end of the line.
There will be an end of the line. But what
I'm concerned about is number one, what happens to you
(35:12):
before you get there, and your spouse and your loved ones.
What happens before you reach the end of the line.
And then and this is very important, It seems like
to me very important, because you may have reached the
end of the line, but the people that you love
and care for have not. They haven't reached the end
of the line.
Speaker 3 (35:32):
How are you going?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
How are they going to look back, you know, at
that last station and say, japers, that was a life
well lived, that was good, that worked out. You know,
how are they going to remember you? Because they will
remember you somehow, And most of the time it's the
most recent, the most recent, the last thing that happens
(35:55):
is the thing that that acquires mythic proportions. Okay, there's
somebody who said nothing became his life so well as
his way of ending it. Well, there's some truth in that. Okay,
not the whole story, but it is an important part.
And it will be the lens through which it be
(36:16):
the lasting people experience of you. And it will be
the lens through which they look back and interpret everything else,
everything else that you did. Maybe that's irrelevant to you.
Speaker 3 (36:27):
God bless you.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
Okay, fine, don't care that that. Okay, who am I
to argue? I would still say how we get to
the end of the line is important. But I also
think that it is important, you know, for most of
us with relationships, who live in a family, who live
in a society, a community. You know, it should be
(36:50):
And I'll say it should be because it seems important
to me. It should be important that your life stand
for something, that you mean, something, that you have a
message that is effectively communicated and is not stepped on
by the last bits if if it's a off the show,
well I got these documents. Well the documents don't work
(37:12):
because they don't embody you. They don't embody what you wanted,
who you are, and all the rest of it's just yeah, yeah, yeah,
I just got it done. I got it done because
I had to get it done. Okay, it's not like that.
You know, you don't serve Big Max at Thanksgiving? You know,
it's as simple as that. I think you've been listening
to the David Carrier Show, and then this is why
we this is why we do the workshops that we do.
(37:35):
This is why education ours. Yeah, it's hours and hours,
but it's.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Fun any.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
There's cookies anyway, you know what I mean. We really
do put a lot of effort into making sure that
people understand what's going on. That's why we do the
group setting. That's why we do it, not one on.
When we're not pounding on you, we're in a classroom situation.
You'll hear different people's perspectives on it. You'll get a
(38:03):
little bit of insight perhaps from the way that other
people have done and other people are thinking about doing it.
And the start to the whole thing is the Three
Secrets Workshop. Go to the website Davidcarrier Law dot com.
Come to a three Secrets workshop.
Speaker 3 (38:17):
See what you think.
Speaker 2 (38:19):
I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. A lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference. So when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(39:09):
visit Davidcarrier law dot com.
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