Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and you have found the place
where we talk about a state planning, elder law, real
estate and business law. So give us a call. Why
don't you six one six seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. That's sixty one six seven seven four twenty
(00:41):
four to twenty four. We'll get your question, comment or
concern on the air. Of course, you know I like
elder law, right. We like to call it retirement law
because if you want to retire, if you have retired,
if you're ever hoping to retire, well, this is the
kind of law that you need. We've got Janet on line. Hello, Janet,
Welcome to the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Hello, and I wanted to know if you have already
have a Carrier trust, Carrier loss trust. If it's possible
for them to take your house if it's already paid
for and you have a trust registered with the county.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yes, so is it possible. Yeah, it's possible, but it's
so unlikely because in order so when you have it.
Let me back up, criminals are stupid. They like to
do easy things. Okay, So that's why you don't have
a lot of this title fraud going on. I don't think,
(01:50):
I mean really really, you know, in terms of percentage,
you might have a large number, but there's three hundred
and thirty million Americans there hundred and forty and the
percentage is very low. Does that mean you shouldn't look
out for it? I don't say that. I think yeah
you should, but you need to, you know, evaluate the risk,
I guess is what I'm saying. Now, Why is it
(02:13):
difficult to commit title from Because number one, you got
to find somebody who's willing to give you money for
a bogus title. That's not so easy to do. I mean,
the banks aren't in the business are just giving away money.
I mean, Janet, when was the last time, right you
tried to go to the bank and cash your check? Right?
Did they take your blood? You know? Just to make
(02:34):
sure you know, do a DNA scan to make sure
it was you well close right, They want to identification
everything else. Same way if they're doing a mortgage or
home equity line or credit, they're gonna appraise the house.
There's a lot of work that goes into it. So
(02:54):
they're not likely to rip off a bank. And most
people are not going to say, oh boy, you're going
to sell me the house for half what it's worth.
What a deal. You know, most people aren't going to
fall for that. So the steps that you and then
in order to actually do it, you've got to get
(03:16):
a copy of the deed. You've got to get fake notary,
you've got fake all the stuff. So is it likely. No,
But when you have your assets in a trust, now
in addition to all the personal stuff, all the personal
information that you have to get, now you also have
(03:37):
to get that information about the trust. So now you
have an additional couple of documents. It's not terrible, but
the additional documents that you need to that you need
to file in order to transfer title to a to
a property from a trust. So to the extent that
having the property in the trust means that the bad
(03:59):
guy has to go through two or three more steps.
I think it's that much less likely that they ever
would that they'd ever do it. Now, if you're just
selling your house normally, well yeah, it's a couple extra
pieces of paper, no big deal, because it's done all
the time. But if you're a bad guy and you're
(04:21):
trying to rip somebody off, and now you've got to
do in addition to the paperwork you'd have to do
for a normal one of these scams, now you've got
to do more, even more paperwork. I doubt it. So.
So it's not a matter of by law it can't
be done. Well, I mean by law it shouldn't be
(04:42):
done because it's a crime. But it just you're that
much harder a target, right, it's just that much more
difficult to pull off the scam. Does that help?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yes, I also live in my house because it's my
one and all my house.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, for most of us, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I just wanted to make sure because I don't get
other things I don't need.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Right, right, here's the problem. But Jennet, you see, let
me let me say this. Here's the problem. When we
say when we use the word need need in association
with risk, is there a risk. Is there a risk
that someone would commit mortgage fraud? Yeah, there is, or
(05:40):
deed fraud. Is there a risk that Martians will land
on your house and use it as a launch pad. Yeah,
that could happen. But do you need Martian insurance in
case they decide to land on your house? No, because
the risk is so unlikely, you know, it's so small.
(06:05):
So but if Martians ever did land on your house, Janet,
you would need that Martian insurance. Do you see what
I'm saying? It's like okay. So it's because people say
to me all the time, well, what part of the
trust do I need? You know, I've got hundreds of
(06:25):
pages of stuff here? How much of that do I need?
And the answer is, eventually you need need need about
ten percent of it. So you tell me which ninety
percent to throw away and you can have a smaller book.
But the problem is we don't know what the future holds,
(06:47):
all right, and all of the risks that we cover
when we do one of these estate plans like we
did for you, When we do an estate plan like that,
will all of those things happen to anybody? Well, there's
this guy in the Bible, do you remember this guy
in the Bible named job right, well every bad okay,
Well he needed all of the estate plan. Okay, he
(07:08):
needed all of it. But for the rest of us,
ten percent will do. You just don't know which ten percent.
So when we're evaluating risk, right, it doesn't cost you
anymore with us to cover all of it. So that's
why we do cover all of It's just more paper,
you know. And you got to think about it. You
(07:30):
got to be aware of what the risks actually are
and then cover them because if you need it and
you don't have it, that's a bad thing. And when
seventy percent of folks need on average, three years of
skilled care, according to the National Institute of Health, well
I better be thinking about that. I better be planning
(07:52):
for that because if I'm not, then I'm really not
doing the job. And if the risk works out that
you never need, you're one of the thirty percent. Right.
Does that mean that you didn't need to plan? Well,
I don't know. Did you need to sleep at night?
Did you need to cover the risk? Did you need
(08:14):
to know that if something bad happened, everything was going
to be okay? Right? So that's the you know, because
people say say that sometimes. Oh you know, do I
need this? Well? You might get lucky. What was that,
Clint easwoodline? Do you feel lucky? Well? Do you know
(08:38):
I prefer to be covered? Then lucky? Does that help? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
And I wanted to thank you for coming to Killamazoo
in July or June. July?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
It's July, oh right, right? Right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Well that's our that's our summer of base that's our
summer of baseball. We're we're starting off with the white
Caps in June, then Kalamazoo in July, then Lancing in August,
and then we're right now. Hey, here's here's a good question.
(09:15):
Right now, it costs us to go to see a
Tigers game. It's a little bit more than the white
Caps or the Growlers. Okay, it's a little bit more.
But the big expense is fifty bucks for the bus,
fifty bucks ahead. So should we do another white Caps
game or should we take a bus to Detroit? That's
(09:36):
a question. Okay, So noodle that one around, give me
a call back on it. Okay, thank you, thank you, Janet.
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier.
Your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven. This is the David
Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier.
Your family's personal retirement attorney. How about that retirement attorney?
Why not six one, six seven of them four twenty
four twenty four. That's six one, six sevenths of them
four twenty four to twenty four. That's the number to
call to get your question, comment or concern on the air.
(10:26):
You know, we're just talking about one of thin Janet mentioned,
the base This is we're calling our Summer of baseball.
So last year one of the most popular things we
did in our Red Wagon club is the was the
white Caps game. Everybody, everybody had a good time with that,
uh and they did the cooking, so we didn't have
(10:49):
to we didn't have to do too much. Well, we
did a lot. I mean we did the hats and
the sponge fingers and all that kind of thing. But anyway,
the point is that everyone had a great time and
it wasn't that hard. So we decided to make twenty
twenty five a summer of baseball. So our first one.
If you haven't gotten your postcard yet, you haven't gotten
(11:12):
your postcard yet, just call the office six one six
three six eighty four hundred. That's sixty one six three
six eighty four hundred we were sent out. I don't know,
ten thousand postcards, twelve thousand postcards. Now you know we've
got like twenty five thousand addresses and it's in your email.
So if you if you're getting our email, then it's
(11:33):
in there. But you know, if you prefer the actual
paper that's coming to your house, well, twelve thousand of you,
it's coming to your house. But the point is what
happens to an estate plan once you've signed it. Once
you've signed the estate plan, what happens to it. I'll
(11:53):
tell you what happens to it. It goes in the
basement and gets moldy and mildewy. And that's what happens
to it. And that is really not going to help
you very much if when you eventually need it, because
it's going to be outdated, it's not going to work.
(12:14):
You don't really know what the heck it does anyway.
So our goal through the Red Wagon Club is to
keep people involved informed. That's why you get your you
get your weekly newsletter, that's why all the you get
the weekly client review of trust review events. That's what
(12:34):
we just did, the beneficiary workshop for your kids. You know,
we're doing all this stuff so that your estate plan
really really works when you really really need it to work.
That's the idea. And you know, and the fun stuff
is uh, that's the that's the wolf in cheap's clothing,
you know what I mean. So we figure if we
(12:55):
do enough fun stuff, then you'll you won't notice the
lost stuff that we're sneaking in there. Hey, we've got
Jim from Vicksburg Online. Hello Jim, Welcome to the David
Carrier Show.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Hey, good morning, David. Have a I have a note
for you, Yes, maybe a beneficial maybe benefit to people you.
You set up our asset Protection Trust here last year
and we're working our way through that for the funding
(13:27):
of it. And the Register of Deeds. We're in Kalamazoo County.
The Register of Deeds provides a free service for any
time there is a movement or action on your deeds.
You register your property by just going online with your
(13:47):
name and your address and a contact information and if
there's any action on your deed, they will notify you.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Wait a second, Jim, Wait a second. Wait wh whoa,
whoa whoa. You're telling me that the government, through the
registered deeds is doing a good thing.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
What well, we don't want to We don't want to
let this go too far.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
No, that makes perfect sense that they would do that.
It makes perfect sense. You know, I don't even know
if that's available in the you know what. That's what
we're going to do this week. We'll find out what
are the counties that's available in because that's because why
wouldn't you You know, every time something gets recorded, they
send you what is it, an email kind of thing?
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Save the poss This is uh, this is how it's
I'm looking at it on the website right now under
Kalamuzuk County Register of Deeds. Property Fraud Alert for Kalamuzu County,
a free service that is now available. Sign up by
entering your personal and or business name and you will
(14:51):
be notified when a document is recorded with your name
match perfect and I know what works. I know what works.
Let me tell you why, tell me why. I'll tell
you exactly why. When we did the Asset Protection Trust
all right, we had to change the change the deed.
(15:12):
Right as soon as that was registered with a County
of Kalamazoo. I got a notice or we received notice
my wife and I that there was action on the deed.
And I thought, hey, it really works.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's great, that's great. Well, you know, Kalamazoo
does a lot of cool things. You know that Kalamazoo
Promise and all the rest of that. That's a very
very vibrant community. And you know, it does make you
wonder because it is such a it would be such
a low cost, like almost no cost service because all
(15:46):
they have to do is put a couple of lines
of code in their in their process. Right, because the
deed comes in to be recorded. You know, there's information
goes out to mapping and taxes and all the you know,
they send information to other places. Why not just send
it to you as well. I think that's a I
think that's a fantastic idea.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, you know the current phone number and email address. Yeah,
a way of contacting you. And it's one of these
things like your your legal affairs, like your your truck.
That's a living, working, breathing document, right, right, Eventually somebody
is going to be looking at it and hopefully, unfortunately
(16:30):
there's criminals in this world that want something that you own,
and there's another layer of protection that keeps you from
becoming a victim, right right.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
That's fantastic. Well, thank you, Jim, thanks for the call.
That's a that's a great tip. And well we'll go
ahead and see what the see what the different counties
you're doing. You know, I know we've only got three
or four of them in the state of Michigan, so
we're not going to get them all done, but we
should be able to get most of them in our
in our area done by next week's show, So we'll
(17:02):
definitely and you know, and you know what else we'll
do is we'll we'll send the letter out. Let's find
out why if the other counties are not doing it,
why aren't they doing it? Because remember when we had
that one tough nerd I don't even remember his name.
He was before Governor Whitmer, and he went through and
(17:24):
all the registered deeds, Officer Snyder there you go. He
went through and really updated and it started before with Angler,
the whole geographic information system, so that's all computerized. And
then what he did or at least you know, under him,
(17:45):
under Snyder, because he was so into the whole high
tech thing. They really updated the registered deeds. You know,
it used to be to get a deed, you had
to go through the you had to go through the
Grand Tour grantee index and then from the grantory index
to the grantee index, and then you have to look
it up on microfilm, a microfiche. You know. It was uh,
(18:09):
it was a process. And now, of course it's so easy,
which is probably why there's more fraud because, as I
was saying before, criminals are not that bright and they
like easy stuff. So we've made it very easy or
not very easy, but made it easier for them to
do it. But all by way of saying, thank you
(18:30):
very much for the head tip, hat tip, hat tip. Yes, uh,
thank you very much for the tip. And we'll look
into that. But that's that's a great service. That's great,
very good. Thank you. So, as Jim says, you don't
want to when you get your trust right, when you
get your estate plan, you know, it is a leave
(18:53):
living breathing. I don't know if it's breathing, but it's
a living document anyway, And it should respond. It should
be based on what you need. So many people think
that estate planning is about pieces of paper in binders
or elsewhere. That couldn't be further from the truth. It's
(19:14):
the same idea. You yourself, right, You you are more
than the molecules that make up your body. Right, there's
more to you than that. Well, there's more to an
estate plan then trust, will poverty. Oh, I got these things,
therefore I'm done. Yeah, Well, you know your arms or
(19:39):
your you know you're made of arms, legs, body and all. Well,
they're yours, you know what I mean. They're different. I
know they're very similar to other people's, but they're still different.
And that's what makes it unique. That's what makes your
body your body, right, makes it unique, makes it useful
for you, does what you want it to do. And
(19:59):
same way with an a state plan. The skeleton can
be the same, but it really matters that it serves you,
that it's personal to you. You've been listening to the
David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
David's got the how too you're looking for Just call
seven seven four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. That's right. Why because it's all
very personal, isn't it? I think it is? Uh, And personally,
I feel that most of the state planning is Oh,
we've got Gina on the line. Hello, Gina, Welcome to
the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
Hi, Hi, I had Okay, my mother in law own
two rental properties, okay, and she has no will or
trust Okay, So I'm we're going to put together a trust,
but we're looking at selling these rental properties as well,
(21:07):
and so I guess the question is should they be
in the trust before we sell them or can we
just put the money in after we sell them.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
So, so here's the thing. Have you ever heard of
William Shakespeare? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And he had this
old saying about tis many a slip TwixT the cup
and the lip. At least I think that's how it went.
And the idea is that we can plan things right,
(21:42):
but even in raising our beverage, things can happen. So
whenever someone tells me, well we're going to sell them,
we're going to do this, We're going to do that,
I'm giving. My uniform practice is to say any a
slip TwixT the cup and the limp. Okay. If something
(22:03):
happens in the meantime and that doesn't occur, then thank
god we've got it in the trust because now I
can manage it. I can deal with it. I don't
have to worry about probate. I don't have to worry
about the state recovery, you know what I mean, I've
got it handled. So and we've done that. We've done
that with not just this sort of thing, you know,
(22:26):
like properties that we intend to sell, but also properties
we intended to give to the kids. Right, oh, well
we're going to give that to so and so when
he graduates college or you know, something like that. And
it's like you just don't know. And that's the nature
of planning, right. The thing is, well, do I really
(22:47):
need to put it in Well, if every day's a
sunny day, if everything works out perfectly AOKA all the
time and nothing goes sideways, did you need to do it? Well,
Monday morning quarterbacking is Monday morning quarterbacking because you weren't
in the arena making the decision when the decision needed
(23:11):
to be made, you're making it when you already know
the outcome. So my suggestion is always with my clients
at least, I'm very risk averse if I can think
of something to minimize risk, to take away uncertainty and anticipate,
(23:31):
you know, anticipate things that are you know, we've been
talking a lot about the whole deed fraud thing. Does
that happen, Yes, it happens. Does it happen as much
as people going into long term care? No? I mean
long term care? Skilled nursing care is a seventy percent
reality for anyone who's sixty five, according to the not
(23:55):
when you're sixty five, but in your lifetime you got
a seventy percent shot of three years skill care, twenty
five years in more according to the government, again the government.
But I mean that's a real that's like holy you know,
you can't kid yourself about that. Well you can, but
you shouldn't. Now, will something happen between doing the trust
(24:19):
and selling these properties? Well, you know, there's an awful
lot of things going on in the world. How old
is your mother in law just for example.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well, she.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
Eighty she'll be eighty seven this year. And we are
looking at trying to maybe get her on the PACE
program because she is needing outside help to come in,
which is one reason we're selling these properties is to
fund that. And another wrinkle is that one of the
(24:53):
properties we're thinking of doing as a lot of land contract,
it's her granddaughter.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, I wouldn't do that, No, no, no, it's kind
of here. So most people will say, don't sell it
because you'll have too much capital gain tax. That's not
the problem. The problem is because her income is probably
well below the threshold that you'd even have to pay
(25:26):
any capital gain tax. It just depends, but that would
be one thing to look at. There might be some
recapture of depreciation, although at eighty seven, I'm gonna guess
she's had these properties for quite a while. They're probably
all depreciated down the probably don't have to worry about
it getting stuff, but selling stuff on land contract. Not
(25:49):
a big fan of that, simply because it gives the buyer.
If I'm working for the seller, I'm working for the seller.
I don't want to land contract because it gives too
much power to the to the buyer, I'm working for
a buyer, Well, then I love a land contract. I'm
working for a seller lease option is more more of
(26:10):
the way to go. That said at eighty, how much
of these things worth would you say together.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Together? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I mean how much? How much money are we dealing
with here?
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Probably one hundred and seventy five between the two not much.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Okay, okay, So so there's a way to do this
so that you qualify for the PACE starting off right, See,
let's say, let's say there's one hundred and twenty one thousand,
(26:55):
one hundred thirty two thousand, one hundred and thirty thousand altogether. Okay,
So if you gave away that much money, if you
gave away one hundred and thirty thousand dollars, right, you'd
be disqualified from Medicaid for a whole year. For a
whole year, they would not pay. Okay, But every month
(27:19):
that goes by that you are either in a long
term care facility or eligible for Medicaid. Medicaid forgives you
eleven thousand dollars roughly. So if you give away one
hundred thirty two thousand, right, that's twelve times eleven, right,
(27:41):
one hundred thirty two thousand. Now you're disqualified for a year.
If you're on PACE, every month that you're on PACE,
they knock off one month of your debt right of
the through one month of the penalty period is what
(28:02):
it's called.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
Really okay, So, and it.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Costs about six thousand dollars a month to private pay
or PACE. Now, at the end of a year, gone
for a whole year, and you've paid six thousand dollars
a month and gotten all the PACE services. Okay, So
what's six times twelve, right, seventy two? Seventy two is
(28:29):
sixty thousand less than one hundred and thirty two. And
so at the end of the year you would be
eligible your mother in law would be eligible to receive
Medicaid PACE because she'd paid for the whole year, and
you'd still have six thousand dollars left over. Don't try this,
(28:52):
don't try this at home. But that's the kind of
that's the kind of thing that we'd be working out. Okay.
The problem with and I'll tell you DHS as a
whole we've gone for years on it is the land
contract actually sound is it arms length? Blah blah blah.
(29:12):
I mean, there's a lot of issues with land contract.
You can't just do what you'd like to do, especially
for a family member. Okay, whenever you're dealing with Medicaid,
you got to realize there's a rule for everything. There's
a rule for everything. You just got to follow the rules.
You'd be okay, but sometimes they change.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
In mind, niece, this niece is also our granddaughter. Excuse me, yeah,
is also on Medicaid Social Security er disability.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Oh well, let's talk about that because that's another issue.
Let's talk about that when we get back. We got
a few minutes. Okay, you've been listening to the David
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, asking you to go to
our website Davidcarrier Law dot com, David Carrier dot com
and come to one of our free three secrets or chefs.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
David's perking and working and taking your calls.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Now.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
The David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
We're talking with Gina, and Gina, let me see if
I can recap this. We've got an eighty seven year
old mother in law who has two rental properties that
she's had for quite a while, total value of one
hundred and seventy five two hundred thousand more or less.
(30:33):
I assume she has her own home as well. Is
that correct? Yes, okay, And we have a grand she
has a granddaughter who she'd like to give a house to.
The granddaughter is on social security disability, she.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Doesn't necessarily want to give it to her. We'd like
to do the land contract because we don't feel like
she could qualify going through a bank.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Right. Well, what I was gonna say is with with
disabled children, if it's your child, it's gonna be your child.
With a disabled child, they wave the they wave the
devestment rules, so you don't have doesn't have to be
actually sound, you don't have to meet all the all
(31:19):
the requirements. But then I'm but then it's a great child,
So that doesn't work. And if you just gave it
to her, then you might have asset problems depending on
what flavor of social Security she's on disability. Uh, I
don't know. We gotta think about this. I tend to
(31:40):
think that the that for for mother in law, the
best bet would be to the best bet would be
to sell them, get the cash and let us deal
with the cash. But there is an alternative. You know,
if a property is listed for sale for ninety days,
(32:00):
nine to zero ninety days and it doesn't sell. Medicaid
doesn't count it until it does sell. Okay, So if
she's gonna be staying at home right, I mean as
she is right now, six thousand dollars a month to
pay for pace, that might be worth doing. Or what
(32:25):
she might do is list the properties for sale. They
have to be listed on the MLS. You can't refuse
a reasonable offer at full market value, right, can't reasonable
full market offer? But after ninety days they don't count
for medicaid provided you may continue to make efforts to
(32:45):
sell them. Now the degree of sales effort. You don't
have to fire Salem, you don't have to give them away.
You can get market value. So what is market value?
I don't know. Let's hope nobody offers it. But anyway,
my point is that there are things that can be
done to qualify her for pace without going broke. And
(33:07):
you know that's always our you know, when we do
our pre planning, what we're trying to do, what we
usually do is save pretty much everything you've got, pretty
much when we're doing a crisis plan where I don't
have all the time, then I'm trying to save. If
I save anything, i'm doing, I'm doing well. That's how
(33:30):
I look at it, because otherwise it'd all be gone.
And if we can save half more than half, you know,
then then we feel like we're doing a We're doing
a pretty good job there. So so like if I
mean worst case scenario, we would save about, you know,
(33:51):
about half of what these things are worth and still
get her qualified for a pace after we had spent
the half. So the interest. Here's the interesting thing about
this whole medicaid stuff, about the crisis stuff. Okay, there
(34:13):
are so many rules. There's so many rules that cover
so many situations that until you really dig into it,
you can't say what you're going to do now from
a planning perspective, right, So for you, your husband, you
know that generation I got plenty of time. Even if
(34:35):
she didn't have needs at this point, mother in law,
we would still do a five year plan because at
the end of five years, no questions asked, it's off
the table. That's pretty obvious for everybody. But when you're
crafting a strategy to qualify for the Medicaid in a
crisis situation, okay, and I don't have millions that I
(34:57):
can take my five years on. Then what you come
up with. It's surprising sometimes because everyone really is unique.
And when you find out what's going on in the family,
what the nature of the assets are, nature of the disability,
all those all those things play into what kind of
(35:21):
plan we eventually come up with to save as much
as we can for the individual. So you know, as
you're as you're talking about like, well, okay, we could
do this, we could do that, we could do this,
we could do that, And it's really just a matter
of personal situation and all the different things. You know,
(35:43):
all the rabbits we can pull out of the hat,
you know, all the techniques, all the and and understand too,
when we do these cases on the fixed fee cases,
we do it by the hour as well. If you
want to pay us by the hour, that's fine. But
if we do a fixed fee case, we include any
(36:04):
appeals that are necessary. So if you know so so
a lot of a lot of this stuff, I gotta
tell you, I mean, it's preposterous that this stuff would work.
I mean, you look at it, you know that makes
that makes no sense at all. Yeah, I know, I
know it makes no sense. At all. Okay, fine, but
it works and I'm willing to commit. And this is
(36:26):
what we do in fixed fee cases anyway, because you
can't do it in an hourly rate case. But in
fixed fee cases we agree to take on any appeals
as far as they go with any you know, with
the medicaid case. Right. So if for some reason, and
this only happens about half a percent of you know,
(36:46):
one out of two hundred cases, we get denied, we
have to take an appeal. But we'll take that appeal
and it doesn't cost you anything. I can't guarantee results.
Lawyers can't guarantee results. But what we can do is say, look,
here's what we think our strategy is. Here's what this
the way this should work out, and if it doesn't.
(37:09):
If it doesn't, then we'll take the appeals from it
to argue the position for the client. Like I say,
we've done literally thousands of cases, so we've had quite
a few appeals. You know, it's a big number, but
it's not a big percentage, you know what I mean. Right,
(37:30):
But the point is that that it really needs you
really need to dig into it. See what the numbers are,
see what the facts are. It's it's hard to say
exactly what you would do in a given case. And
all I'm trying to do right now is sort of
acquaint you with the idea that there are really a
(37:51):
lot of things that can be done. One of the
things that really cheeses me, like you know, macaroni and cheese,
is when we hear people have gone to see somebody
or have gotten the message, Oh, all you can do
is a spend down. You just have to sell it
and spend it, sell it and spend it, sell it
and spend it. And that is not true. It's never true,
(38:15):
never say never, but really vanishingly small when the best
thing you can do is sell and spend. There's always
something you can do to salvage something of a life's work.
You know, when you're eighty seven years old and you
still have two rental properties, right, you did a lot
of work to hang on to those freaking rental properties.
(38:37):
I remember two thousand and eight, I remember the savings
and loan debacle, I remember the high tech credit. You know,
let's hang out to it. Let's honor that, right.
Speaker 5 (38:49):
All right, thank you so much. I really appreciate yourself,
your Joe and I'll call back with some other question.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Sounds good. Thank you, Gina, have a wonderful You've been
listening to the David Carrier Show introducing our Summer of
Baseball for Red Wagon Club members and Life Plan members
as well. Look at your mail you'll be getting that
post guard.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. A lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference, so when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show, or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(39:39):
visit Davidcarrier Law dot com.
He served at the Pentagon as an army jag. He
graduated from Notre Dame and has two law degrees from
Boston University and Georgetown University. He's been practicing law for
over thirty years. He's your family's personal attorney. It's time
for the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hello, and welcome to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney, and you have found the place
where we talk about a state planning, elder law, real
estate and business law. So give us a call. Why
don't you six one six seven seven four twenty four
twenty four. That's sixty one six seven seven four twenty
(00:41):
four to twenty four. We'll get your question, comment or
concern on the air. Of course, you know I like
elder law, right. We like to call it retirement law
because if you want to retire, if you have retired,
if you're ever hoping to retire, well, this is the
kind of law that you need. We've got Janet on line. Hello, Janet,
Welcome to the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Hello, and I wanted to know if you have already
have a Carrier trust, Carrier loss trust. If it's possible
for them to take your house if it's already paid
for and you have a trust registered with the county.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yes, so is it possible. Yeah, it's possible, but it's
so unlikely because in order so when you have it.
Let me back up, criminals are stupid. They like to
do easy things. Okay, So that's why you don't have
a lot of this title fraud going on. I don't think,
(01:50):
I mean really really, you know, in terms of percentage,
you might have a large number, but there's three hundred
and thirty million Americans there hundred and forty and the
percentage is very low. Does that mean you shouldn't look
out for it? I don't say that. I think yeah
you should, but you need to, you know, evaluate the risk,
I guess is what I'm saying. Now, Why is it
(02:13):
difficult to commit title from Because number one, you got
to find somebody who's willing to give you money for
a bogus title. That's not so easy to do. I mean,
the banks aren't in the business are just giving away money.
I mean, Janet, when was the last time, right you
tried to go to the bank and cash your check? Right?
Did they take your blood? You know? Just to make
(02:34):
sure you know, do a DNA scan to make sure
it was you well close right, They want to identification
everything else. Same way if they're doing a mortgage or
home equity line or credit, they're gonna appraise the house.
There's a lot of work that goes into it. So
(02:54):
they're not likely to rip off a bank. And most
people are not going to say, oh boy, you're going
to sell me the house for half what it's worth.
What a deal. You know, most people aren't going to
fall for that. So the steps that you and then
in order to actually do it, you've got to get
(03:16):
a copy of the deed. You've got to get fake notary,
you've got fake all the stuff. So is it likely. No,
But when you have your assets in a trust, now
in addition to all the personal stuff, all the personal
information that you have to get, now you also have
(03:37):
to get that information about the trust. So now you
have an additional couple of documents. It's not terrible, but
the additional documents that you need to that you need
to file in order to transfer title to a to
a property from a trust. So to the extent that
having the property in the trust means that the bad
(03:59):
guy has to go through two or three more steps.
I think it's that much less likely that they ever
would that they'd ever do it. Now, if you're just
selling your house normally, well yeah, it's a couple extra
pieces of paper, no big deal, because it's done all
the time. But if you're a bad guy and you're
(04:21):
trying to rip somebody off, and now you've got to
do in addition to the paperwork you'd have to do
for a normal one of these scams, now you've got
to do more, even more paperwork. I doubt it. So.
So it's not a matter of by law it can't
be done. Well, I mean by law it shouldn't be
(04:42):
done because it's a crime. But it just you're that
much harder a target, right, it's just that much more
difficult to pull off the scam. Does that help?
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yes, I also live in my house because it's my
one and all my house.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Yeah, for most of us, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I just wanted to make sure because I don't get
other things I don't need.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Right, right, here's the problem. But Jennet, you see, let
me let me say this. Here's the problem. When we
say when we use the word need need in association
with risk, is there a risk. Is there a risk
that someone would commit mortgage fraud? Yeah, there is, or
(05:40):
deed fraud. Is there a risk that Martians will land
on your house and use it as a launch pad. Yeah,
that could happen. But do you need Martian insurance in
case they decide to land on your house? No, because
the risk is so unlikely, you know, it's so small.
(06:05):
So but if Martians ever did land on your house, Janet,
you would need that Martian insurance. Do you see what
I'm saying? It's like okay. So it's because people say
to me all the time, well, what part of the
trust do I need? You know, I've got hundreds of
(06:25):
pages of stuff here? How much of that do I need?
And the answer is, eventually you need need need about
ten percent of it. So you tell me which ninety
percent to throw away and you can have a smaller book.
But the problem is we don't know what the future holds,
(06:47):
all right, and all of the risks that we cover
when we do one of these estate plans like we
did for you, When we do an estate plan like that,
will all of those things happen to anybody? Well, there's
this guy in the Bible, do you remember this guy
in the Bible named job right, well every bad okay,
Well he needed all of the estate plan. Okay, he
(07:08):
needed all of it. But for the rest of us,
ten percent will do. You just don't know which ten percent.
So when we're evaluating risk, right, it doesn't cost you
anymore with us to cover all of it. So that's
why we do cover all of It's just more paper,
you know. And you got to think about it. You
(07:30):
got to be aware of what the risks actually are
and then cover them because if you need it and
you don't have it, that's a bad thing. And when
seventy percent of folks need on average, three years of
skilled care, according to the National Institute of Health, well
I better be thinking about that. I better be planning
(07:52):
for that because if I'm not, then I'm really not
doing the job. And if the risk works out that
you never need, you're one of the thirty percent. Right.
Does that mean that you didn't need to plan? Well,
I don't know. Did you need to sleep at night?
Did you need to cover the risk? Did you need
(08:14):
to know that if something bad happened, everything was going
to be okay? Right? So that's the you know, because
people say say that sometimes. Oh you know, do I
need this? Well? You might get lucky. What was that,
Clint easwoodline? Do you feel lucky? Well? Do you know
(08:38):
I prefer to be covered? Then lucky? Does that help? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (08:44):
And I wanted to thank you for coming to Killamazoo
in July or June. July?
Speaker 2 (08:53):
It's July, oh right, right? Right? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
Well that's our that's our summer of base that's our
summer of baseball. We're we're starting off with the white
Caps in June, then Kalamazoo in July, then Lancing in August,
and then we're right now. Hey, here's here's a good question.
(09:15):
Right now, it costs us to go to see a
Tigers game. It's a little bit more than the white
Caps or the Growlers. Okay, it's a little bit more.
But the big expense is fifty bucks for the bus,
fifty bucks ahead. So should we do another white Caps
game or should we take a bus to Detroit? That's
(09:36):
a question. Okay, So noodle that one around, give me
a call back on it. Okay, thank you, thank you, Janet.
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier.
Your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
This hour of the David Carrier Show is pro bono,
so call in now at seven. This is the David
Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier.
Your family's personal retirement attorney. How about that retirement attorney?
Why not six one, six seven of them four twenty
four twenty four. That's six one, six sevenths of them
four twenty four to twenty four. That's the number to
call to get your question, comment or concern on the air.
(10:26):
You know, we're just talking about one of thin Janet mentioned,
the base This is we're calling our Summer of baseball.
So last year one of the most popular things we
did in our Red Wagon club is the was the
white Caps game. Everybody, everybody had a good time with that,
uh and they did the cooking, so we didn't have
(10:49):
to we didn't have to do too much. Well, we
did a lot. I mean we did the hats and
the sponge fingers and all that kind of thing. But anyway,
the point is that everyone had a great time and
it wasn't that hard. So we decided to make twenty
twenty five a summer of baseball. So our first one.
If you haven't gotten your postcard yet, you haven't gotten
(11:12):
your postcard yet, just call the office six one six
three six eighty four hundred. That's sixty one six three
six eighty four hundred we were sent out. I don't know,
ten thousand postcards, twelve thousand postcards. Now you know we've
got like twenty five thousand addresses and it's in your email.
So if you if you're getting our email, then it's
(11:33):
in there. But you know, if you prefer the actual
paper that's coming to your house, well, twelve thousand of you,
it's coming to your house. But the point is what
happens to an estate plan once you've signed it. Once
you've signed the estate plan, what happens to it. I'll
(11:53):
tell you what happens to it. It goes in the
basement and gets moldy and mildewy. And that's what happens
to it. And that is really not going to help
you very much if when you eventually need it, because
it's going to be outdated, it's not going to work.
(12:14):
You don't really know what the heck it does anyway.
So our goal through the Red Wagon Club is to
keep people involved informed. That's why you get your you
get your weekly newsletter, that's why all the you get
the weekly client review of trust review events. That's what
(12:34):
we just did, the beneficiary workshop for your kids. You know,
we're doing all this stuff so that your estate plan
really really works when you really really need it to work.
That's the idea. And you know, and the fun stuff
is uh, that's the that's the wolf in cheap's clothing,
you know what I mean. So we figure if we
(12:55):
do enough fun stuff, then you'll you won't notice the
lost stuff that we're sneaking in there. Hey, we've got
Jim from Vicksburg Online. Hello Jim, Welcome to the David
Carrier Show.
Speaker 4 (13:06):
Hey, good morning, David. Have a I have a note
for you, Yes, maybe a beneficial maybe benefit to people you.
You set up our asset Protection Trust here last year
and we're working our way through that for the funding
(13:27):
of it. And the Register of Deeds. We're in Kalamazoo County.
The Register of Deeds provides a free service for any
time there is a movement or action on your deeds.
You register your property by just going online with your
(13:47):
name and your address and a contact information and if
there's any action on your deed, they will notify you.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
Wait a second, Jim, Wait a second. Wait wh whoa,
whoa whoa. You're telling me that the government, through the
registered deeds is doing a good thing.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
What well, we don't want to We don't want to
let this go too far.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
No, that makes perfect sense that they would do that.
It makes perfect sense. You know, I don't even know
if that's available in the you know what. That's what
we're going to do this week. We'll find out what
are the counties that's available in because that's because why
wouldn't you You know, every time something gets recorded, they
send you what is it, an email kind of thing?
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Save the poss This is uh, this is how it's
I'm looking at it on the website right now under
Kalamuzuk County Register of Deeds. Property Fraud Alert for Kalamuzu County,
a free service that is now available. Sign up by
entering your personal and or business name and you will
(14:51):
be notified when a document is recorded with your name
match perfect and I know what works. I know what works.
Let me tell you why, tell me why. I'll tell
you exactly why. When we did the Asset Protection Trust
all right, we had to change the change the deed.
(15:12):
Right as soon as that was registered with a County
of Kalamazoo. I got a notice or we received notice
my wife and I that there was action on the deed.
And I thought, hey, it really works.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
Yeah, yeah, that's great, that's great. Well, you know, Kalamazoo
does a lot of cool things. You know that Kalamazoo
Promise and all the rest of that. That's a very
very vibrant community. And you know, it does make you
wonder because it is such a it would be such
a low cost, like almost no cost service because all
(15:46):
they have to do is put a couple of lines
of code in their in their process. Right, because the
deed comes in to be recorded. You know, there's information
goes out to mapping and taxes and all the you know,
they send information to other places. Why not just send
it to you as well. I think that's a I
think that's a fantastic idea.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, you know the current phone number and email address. Yeah,
a way of contacting you. And it's one of these
things like your your legal affairs, like your your truck.
That's a living, working, breathing document, right, right, Eventually somebody
is going to be looking at it and hopefully, unfortunately
(16:30):
there's criminals in this world that want something that you own,
and there's another layer of protection that keeps you from
becoming a victim, right right.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
That's fantastic. Well, thank you, Jim, thanks for the call.
That's a that's a great tip. And well we'll go
ahead and see what the see what the different counties
you're doing. You know, I know we've only got three
or four of them in the state of Michigan, so
we're not going to get them all done, but we
should be able to get most of them in our
in our area done by next week's show, So we'll
(17:02):
definitely and you know, and you know what else we'll
do is we'll we'll send the letter out. Let's find
out why if the other counties are not doing it,
why aren't they doing it? Because remember when we had
that one tough nerd I don't even remember his name.
He was before Governor Whitmer, and he went through and
(17:24):
all the registered deeds, Officer Snyder there you go. He
went through and really updated and it started before with Angler,
the whole geographic information system, so that's all computerized. And
then what he did or at least you know, under him,
(17:45):
under Snyder, because he was so into the whole high
tech thing. They really updated the registered deeds. You know,
it used to be to get a deed, you had
to go through the you had to go through the
Grand Tour grantee index and then from the grantory index
to the grantee index, and then you have to look
it up on microfilm, a microfiche. You know. It was uh,
(18:09):
it was a process. And now, of course it's so easy,
which is probably why there's more fraud because, as I
was saying before, criminals are not that bright and they
like easy stuff. So we've made it very easy or
not very easy, but made it easier for them to
do it. But all by way of saying, thank you
(18:30):
very much for the head tip, hat tip, hat tip. Yes, uh,
thank you very much for the tip. And we'll look
into that. But that's that's a great service. That's great,
very good. Thank you. So, as Jim says, you don't
want to when you get your trust right, when you
get your estate plan, you know, it is a leave
(18:53):
living breathing. I don't know if it's breathing, but it's
a living document anyway, And it should respond. It should
be based on what you need. So many people think
that estate planning is about pieces of paper in binders
or elsewhere. That couldn't be further from the truth. It's
(19:14):
the same idea. You yourself, right, You you are more
than the molecules that make up your body. Right, there's
more to you than that. Well, there's more to an
estate plan then trust, will poverty. Oh, I got these things,
therefore I'm done. Yeah, Well, you know your arms or
(19:39):
your you know you're made of arms, legs, body and all. Well,
they're yours, you know what I mean. They're different. I
know they're very similar to other people's, but they're still different.
And that's what makes it unique. That's what makes your
body your body, right, makes it unique, makes it useful
for you, does what you want it to do. And
(19:59):
same way with an a state plan. The skeleton can
be the same, but it really matters that it serves you,
that it's personal to you. You've been listening to the
David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
David's got the how too you're looking for Just call
seven seven four. This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (20:23):
Welcome back to the David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier,
your family's personal attorney. That's right. Why because it's all
very personal, isn't it? I think it is? Uh, And personally,
I feel that most of the state planning is Oh,
we've got Gina on the line. Hello, Gina, Welcome to
the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
Hi, Hi, I had Okay, my mother in law own
two rental properties, okay, and she has no will or
trust Okay, So I'm we're going to put together a trust,
but we're looking at selling these rental properties as well,
(21:07):
and so I guess the question is should they be
in the trust before we sell them or can we
just put the money in after we sell them.
Speaker 2 (21:20):
So, so here's the thing. Have you ever heard of
William Shakespeare? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, And he had this
old saying about tis many a slip TwixT the cup
and the lip. At least I think that's how it went.
And the idea is that we can plan things right,
(21:42):
but even in raising our beverage, things can happen. So
whenever someone tells me, well we're going to sell them,
we're going to do this, We're going to do that,
I'm giving. My uniform practice is to say any a
slip TwixT the cup and the limp. Okay. If something
(22:03):
happens in the meantime and that doesn't occur, then thank
god we've got it in the trust because now I
can manage it. I can deal with it. I don't
have to worry about probate. I don't have to worry
about the state recovery, you know what I mean, I've
got it handled. So and we've done that. We've done
that with not just this sort of thing, you know,
(22:26):
like properties that we intend to sell, but also properties
we intended to give to the kids. Right, oh, well
we're going to give that to so and so when
he graduates college or you know, something like that. And
it's like you just don't know. And that's the nature
of planning, right. The thing is, well, do I really
(22:47):
need to put it in Well, if every day's a
sunny day, if everything works out perfectly AOKA all the
time and nothing goes sideways, did you need to do it? Well,
Monday morning quarterbacking is Monday morning quarterbacking because you weren't
in the arena making the decision when the decision needed
(23:11):
to be made, you're making it when you already know
the outcome. So my suggestion is always with my clients
at least, I'm very risk averse if I can think
of something to minimize risk, to take away uncertainty and anticipate,
(23:31):
you know, anticipate things that are you know, we've been
talking a lot about the whole deed fraud thing. Does
that happen, Yes, it happens. Does it happen as much
as people going into long term care? No? I mean
long term care? Skilled nursing care is a seventy percent
reality for anyone who's sixty five, according to the not
(23:55):
when you're sixty five, but in your lifetime you got
a seventy percent shot of three years skill care, twenty
five years in more according to the government, again the government.
But I mean that's a real that's like holy you know,
you can't kid yourself about that. Well you can, but
you shouldn't. Now, will something happen between doing the trust
(24:19):
and selling these properties? Well, you know, there's an awful
lot of things going on in the world. How old
is your mother in law just for example.
Speaker 3 (24:28):
Well, she.
Speaker 5 (24:30):
Eighty she'll be eighty seven this year. And we are
looking at trying to maybe get her on the PACE
program because she is needing outside help to come in,
which is one reason we're selling these properties is to
fund that. And another wrinkle is that one of the
(24:53):
properties we're thinking of doing as a lot of land contract,
it's her granddaughter.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah, I wouldn't do that, No, no, no, it's kind
of here. So most people will say, don't sell it
because you'll have too much capital gain tax. That's not
the problem. The problem is because her income is probably
well below the threshold that you'd even have to pay
(25:26):
any capital gain tax. It just depends, but that would
be one thing to look at. There might be some
recapture of depreciation, although at eighty seven, I'm gonna guess
she's had these properties for quite a while. They're probably
all depreciated down the probably don't have to worry about
it getting stuff, but selling stuff on land contract. Not
(25:49):
a big fan of that, simply because it gives the buyer.
If I'm working for the seller, I'm working for the seller.
I don't want to land contract because it gives too
much power to the to the buyer, I'm working for
a buyer, Well, then I love a land contract. I'm
working for a seller lease option is more more of
(26:10):
the way to go. That said at eighty, how much
of these things worth would you say together.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Together? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I mean how much? How much money are we dealing
with here?
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Probably one hundred and seventy five between the two not much.
Speaker 2 (26:32):
Okay, okay, So so there's a way to do this
so that you qualify for the PACE starting off right, See,
let's say, let's say there's one hundred and twenty one thousand,
(26:55):
one hundred thirty two thousand, one hundred and thirty thousand altogether. Okay,
So if you gave away that much money, if you
gave away one hundred and thirty thousand dollars, right, you'd
be disqualified from Medicaid for a whole year. For a
whole year, they would not pay. Okay, But every month
(27:19):
that goes by that you are either in a long
term care facility or eligible for Medicaid. Medicaid forgives you
eleven thousand dollars roughly. So if you give away one
hundred thirty two thousand, right, that's twelve times eleven, right,
(27:41):
one hundred thirty two thousand. Now you're disqualified for a year.
If you're on PACE, every month that you're on PACE,
they knock off one month of your debt right of
the through one month of the penalty period is what
(28:02):
it's called.
Speaker 5 (28:03):
Really okay, So, and it.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Costs about six thousand dollars a month to private pay
or PACE. Now, at the end of a year, gone
for a whole year, and you've paid six thousand dollars
a month and gotten all the PACE services. Okay, So
what's six times twelve, right, seventy two? Seventy two is
(28:29):
sixty thousand less than one hundred and thirty two. And
so at the end of the year you would be
eligible your mother in law would be eligible to receive
Medicaid PACE because she'd paid for the whole year, and
you'd still have six thousand dollars left over. Don't try this,
(28:52):
don't try this at home. But that's the kind of
that's the kind of thing that we'd be working out. Okay.
The problem with and I'll tell you DHS as a
whole we've gone for years on it is the land
contract actually sound is it arms length? Blah blah blah.
(29:12):
I mean, there's a lot of issues with land contract.
You can't just do what you'd like to do, especially
for a family member. Okay, whenever you're dealing with Medicaid,
you got to realize there's a rule for everything. There's
a rule for everything. You just got to follow the rules.
You'd be okay, but sometimes they change.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
In mind, niece, this niece is also our granddaughter. Excuse me, yeah,
is also on Medicaid Social Security er disability.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
Oh well, let's talk about that because that's another issue.
Let's talk about that when we get back. We got
a few minutes. Okay, you've been listening to the David
Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, asking you to go to
our website Davidcarrier Law dot com, David Carrier dot com
and come to one of our free three secrets or chefs.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
David's perking and working and taking your calls.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Now.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
This is the David Carrier Show.
Speaker 2 (30:13):
The David Carrier Show. I'm David Carrier, your family's personal attorney.
We're talking with Gina, and Gina, let me see if
I can recap this. We've got an eighty seven year
old mother in law who has two rental properties that
she's had for quite a while, total value of one
hundred and seventy five two hundred thousand more or less.
(30:33):
I assume she has her own home as well. Is
that correct? Yes, okay, And we have a grand she
has a granddaughter who she'd like to give a house to.
The granddaughter is on social security disability, she.
Speaker 5 (30:47):
Doesn't necessarily want to give it to her. We'd like
to do the land contract because we don't feel like
she could qualify going through a bank.
Speaker 2 (30:58):
Right. Well, what I was gonna say is with with
disabled children, if it's your child, it's gonna be your child.
With a disabled child, they wave the they wave the
devestment rules, so you don't have doesn't have to be
actually sound, you don't have to meet all the all
(31:19):
the requirements. But then I'm but then it's a great child,
So that doesn't work. And if you just gave it
to her, then you might have asset problems depending on
what flavor of social Security she's on disability. Uh, I
don't know. We gotta think about this. I tend to
(31:40):
think that the that for for mother in law, the
best bet would be to the best bet would be
to sell them, get the cash and let us deal
with the cash. But there is an alternative. You know,
if a property is listed for sale for ninety days,
(32:00):
nine to zero ninety days and it doesn't sell. Medicaid
doesn't count it until it does sell. Okay, So if
she's gonna be staying at home right, I mean as
she is right now, six thousand dollars a month to
pay for pace, that might be worth doing. Or what
(32:25):
she might do is list the properties for sale. They
have to be listed on the MLS. You can't refuse
a reasonable offer at full market value, right, can't reasonable
full market offer? But after ninety days they don't count
for medicaid provided you may continue to make efforts to
(32:45):
sell them. Now the degree of sales effort. You don't
have to fire Salem, you don't have to give them away.
You can get market value. So what is market value?
I don't know. Let's hope nobody offers it. But anyway,
my point is that there are things that can be
done to qualify her for pace without going broke. And
(33:07):
you know that's always our you know, when we do
our pre planning, what we're trying to do, what we
usually do is save pretty much everything you've got, pretty
much when we're doing a crisis plan where I don't
have all the time, then I'm trying to save. If
I save anything, i'm doing, I'm doing well. That's how
(33:30):
I look at it, because otherwise it'd all be gone.
And if we can save half more than half, you know,
then then we feel like we're doing a We're doing
a pretty good job there. So so like if I
mean worst case scenario, we would save about, you know,
(33:51):
about half of what these things are worth and still
get her qualified for a pace after we had spent
the half. So the interest. Here's the interesting thing about
this whole medicaid stuff, about the crisis stuff. Okay, there
(34:13):
are so many rules. There's so many rules that cover
so many situations that until you really dig into it,
you can't say what you're going to do now from
a planning perspective, right, So for you, your husband, you
know that generation I got plenty of time. Even if
(34:35):
she didn't have needs at this point, mother in law,
we would still do a five year plan because at
the end of five years, no questions asked, it's off
the table. That's pretty obvious for everybody. But when you're
crafting a strategy to qualify for the Medicaid in a
crisis situation, okay, and I don't have millions that I
(34:57):
can take my five years on. Then what you come
up with. It's surprising sometimes because everyone really is unique.
And when you find out what's going on in the family,
what the nature of the assets are, nature of the disability,
all those all those things play into what kind of
(35:21):
plan we eventually come up with to save as much
as we can for the individual. So you know, as
you're as you're talking about like, well, okay, we could
do this, we could do that, we could do this,
we could do that, And it's really just a matter
of personal situation and all the different things. You know,
(35:43):
all the rabbits we can pull out of the hat,
you know, all the techniques, all the and and understand too,
when we do these cases on the fixed fee cases,
we do it by the hour as well. If you
want to pay us by the hour, that's fine. But
if we do a fixed fee case, we include any
(36:04):
appeals that are necessary. So if you know so so
a lot of a lot of this stuff, I gotta
tell you, I mean, it's preposterous that this stuff would work.
I mean, you look at it, you know that makes
that makes no sense at all. Yeah, I know, I
know it makes no sense. At all. Okay, fine, but
it works and I'm willing to commit. And this is
(36:26):
what we do in fixed fee cases anyway, because you
can't do it in an hourly rate case. But in
fixed fee cases we agree to take on any appeals
as far as they go with any you know, with
the medicaid case. Right. So if for some reason, and
this only happens about half a percent of you know,
(36:46):
one out of two hundred cases, we get denied, we
have to take an appeal. But we'll take that appeal
and it doesn't cost you anything. I can't guarantee results.
Lawyers can't guarantee results. But what we can do is say, look,
here's what we think our strategy is. Here's what this
the way this should work out, and if it doesn't.
(37:09):
If it doesn't, then we'll take the appeals from it
to argue the position for the client. Like I say,
we've done literally thousands of cases, so we've had quite
a few appeals. You know, it's a big number, but
it's not a big percentage, you know what I mean. Right,
(37:30):
But the point is that that it really needs you
really need to dig into it. See what the numbers are,
see what the facts are. It's it's hard to say
exactly what you would do in a given case. And
all I'm trying to do right now is sort of
acquaint you with the idea that there are really a
(37:51):
lot of things that can be done. One of the
things that really cheeses me, like you know, macaroni and cheese,
is when we hear people have gone to see somebody
or have gotten the message, Oh, all you can do
is a spend down. You just have to sell it
and spend it, sell it and spend it, sell it
and spend it. And that is not true. It's never true,
(38:15):
never say never, but really vanishingly small when the best
thing you can do is sell and spend. There's always
something you can do to salvage something of a life's work.
You know, when you're eighty seven years old and you
still have two rental properties, right, you did a lot
of work to hang on to those freaking rental properties.
(38:37):
I remember two thousand and eight, I remember the savings
and loan debacle, I remember the high tech credit. You know,
let's hang out to it. Let's honor that, right.
Speaker 5 (38:49):
All right, thank you so much. I really appreciate yourself,
your Joe and I'll call back with some other question.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Sounds good. Thank you, Gina, have a wonderful You've been
listening to the David Carrier Show introducing our Summer of
Baseball for Red Wagon Club members and Life Plan members
as well. Look at your mail you'll be getting that
post guard.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
You've been listening to the David Carrier Show. A lively
discussion addressing your questions and concerns, but not legal advice.
There is a big difference, so when making decisions that
affect your family, your property, or yourself, the best advice
is to seek good advice specific to your unique needs.
If you missed any of today's show, or would like
additional information about the law offices of David Carrier, please
(39:39):
visit Davidcarrier Law dot com.
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